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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zeronet on August 19, 2002, 08:37:25 am

Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Zeronet on August 19, 2002, 08:37:25 am
http://www.news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F08%2F19%2Fnmod19.xml


'Electric armour' vaporises anti-tank grenades and shells
By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 19/08/2002)


An electric "force field" for armoured vehicles that vaporises anti-tank grenades and shells on impact has been developed by scientists at the Ministry of Defence.

The "electric armour" has been developed in an attempt to make tanks and other armoured vehicles lighter and less vulnerable to anti-tank grenade launchers such as those used by the Taliban and al-Qa'eda fighters in Afghanistan.

It could be fitted to the light tanks and armoured personnel carriers that will replace the heavy Challenger II tanks and Warrior APCs in one of the two British armoured divisions.

The ubiquitous RPG-7 anti-tank grenade launcher can be picked up for a mere $10 in most of the world's trouble spots but is capable of destroying a tank and killing its crew. When the grenade hits the tank, its "shaped-charge" warhead fires a jet of hot copper into the target at around 1,000mph. This is capable of penetrating more than a foot of conventional solid steel armour.

The new electric armour is made up of a highly-charged capacitor that is connected to two separate metal plates on the tank's exterior. The outer plate, which is bullet-proof and made from an unspecified alloy, is earthed while the insulated inner plate is live.

The electric armour runs off the tank's own power supply. When the tank commander feels he is in a dangerous area, he simply switches on the current to the inner plate.

When the warhead fires its jet of molten copper, it penetrates both the outer plate and the insulation of the inner plate. This makes a connection and thousands of amps of electricity vaporises most of the molten copper. The rest of the copper is dispersed harmlessly against the vehicle's hull.

But despite the high charge, the electrical load on the battery is no more than that caused by starting the engine on a cold morning.

In a recent demonstration of the electric armour for senior Army officers, an APC protected by the new British system survived repeated attacks by rocket-propelled grenades that would normally have destroyed it several times over.

Many of the grenades were fired from point-blank range but the only damage to the APC was cosmetic. The vehicle was driven away under its own power.

Prof John Brown, of the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory, which developed the Pulsed Power System at its R&D site at Fort Halstead, Kent, said it was attracting a lot of interest from both the MoD and the Pentagon.

With the easy availability of RPG-7 rocket launchers "it only takes one individual on, say, a rooftop in a village to cause major damage or destroy passing armoured vehicles", he said.

But the use of electric armour, which will protect against all shaped-charge warheads including artillery and tank shells, would reduce the threat to zero.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Kellan on August 19, 2002, 08:39:37 am
Damn, all my plans are ruined.

*throws RPG-7 in bin*
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Redfang on August 19, 2002, 08:45:35 am
Hmm, interesting. ;)
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Tiara on August 19, 2002, 08:47:21 am
Pre-Alpha shielding for the British!

*starts developing Omega shielding for the Dutch after just having finished Delta*
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Kellan on August 19, 2002, 08:48:23 am
Now if I could... *ahem* ...acquire some of this armour... :devil: :D
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: an0n on August 19, 2002, 08:58:12 am
*has been saying for years that it wouldn't be long before force-fields and warp and **** were invented*

Rumour has it that the Russians built a real shield generator during the cold war. Needed 150 high-power industrial grade capacitors to run it (massive things which took several weeks to charge) and was like 3 km long and comprised of over 40 buildings and towers. It was meant to be able to apply distance relative pressure to incoming objects. But it's probably just another unsubstanciated rumor.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Redfang on August 19, 2002, 09:15:40 am
That's not actually a force field...
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: an0n on August 19, 2002, 09:19:26 am
Quote
Originally posted by Redfang
That's not actually a force field...

It was, it's just the force bled off a bit so when you got within like 20ft of the shell you started feeling something pushing you back. Probably all the static energy and **** from the field. It was like a blurred force-field.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Kellan on August 19, 2002, 09:19:47 am
As an0n would say:

"Soon my pretties, soon."
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Sandwich on August 19, 2002, 09:41:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by an0n

It was, it's just the force bled off a bit so when you got within like 20ft of the shell you started feeling something pushing you back. Probably all the static energy and **** from the field. It was like a blurred force-field.


No, he means the article, I believe.

And as for that article.... :eek2: I used to be a trained RPG-7 operator in the IDF - took a live-fire course and everything. Their penetration ability is really dependant on the type of rocket/warhead, not the launcher. But still, that's one nice bit of enginneering! ;7

Heh - I was wondering if that is an example of one of the few things that man has invented that hasn't been predicted by sci-fi yet. But then I realized that sci-fi had it covered already: "Polarize the hull plating," anyone? :D
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Gortef on August 19, 2002, 10:08:17 am
Quite interesting I agree :nod:
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Anaz on August 19, 2002, 10:13:57 am
awesome....
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Nico on August 19, 2002, 12:50:04 pm
how come it destroyes shells and stuff, but not the tank hull? Physics professionals, i need you to explain me that, coz I'm completly worthless when it comes to understand that kind of stuff...
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Zeronet on August 19, 2002, 01:37:15 pm
Its anything that hits the electrified hull, its eliminated, the hull isnt cos its not moving or something.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Knight Templar on August 19, 2002, 01:58:24 pm
RPG = $10

:devil:
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Kamikaze on August 19, 2002, 02:21:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
RPG = $10

:devil:


:wtf: *me waves a ten buck bill*
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Shrike on August 19, 2002, 03:06:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506
how come it destroyes shells and stuff, but not the tank hull? Physics professionals, i need you to explain me that, coz I'm completly worthless when it comes to understand that kind of stuff...
For the same reason a high tension power line doesn't destroy itself.... it'd designed to not be destroyed. ;)

The metal jet from a HEAT warhead causes a short circuit between the two layers of armor.  No significant effects outside the armor system.

And this is why the tank is still the best way of destroying other tanks..... it uses a gun instead of a missile.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: an0n on August 19, 2002, 03:11:08 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
And this is why the tank is still the best way of destroying other tanks

Actually I think that honour goes to Thermo-nuclear weaponry. It's the best thing for killing everything/anything.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: aldo_14 on August 19, 2002, 03:12:11 pm
Of course, it'll be contracted to the lowest bidder and then fail to work in anything resembling battlefield conditions...such as rain, snow, desert, heat, cold, mud or generally not being in a nice place.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: beatspete on August 19, 2002, 03:44:11 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
Of course, it'll be contracted to the lowest bidder and then fail to work in anything resembling battlefield conditions...such as rain, snow, desert, heat, cold, mud or generally not being in a nice place.


Or just general sunlight if its a scottish tank.  Going by this summer, it wouldnt be used to any more sun light or heat than that prodeced by a small light bulb. :D


But anyway, we arent supposed to tell people that. :shaking:
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: aldo_14 on August 19, 2002, 03:56:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by beatspete


Or just general sunlight if its a scottish tank.  Going by this summer, it wouldnt be used to any more sun light or heat than that prodeced by a small light bulb. :D


But anyway, we arent supposed to tell people that. :shaking:


Summer?  Is that, like, the rainy season?  Or the monsoon season?   In the event of a war, the first Scots' troops sent out to battle would be a battalion of Buckfast wielding neds, anyways.  Shir.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Sandwich on August 19, 2002, 04:00:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by beatspete
...a scottish tank...


Not trying to be a Scott-basher or anything, but does that exist? I've never heard of one before.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: aldo_14 on August 19, 2002, 04:06:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


Not trying to be a Scot-basher or anything, but does that exist? I've never heard of one before.


Well, Maryhill police vans probably count.... :D

There are / were a few ironworks around the Clyde that make military equipment - mainly naval ships (for what's lef tof the Scots shipbuilding industry... i think only Kvaerner(?) Govan is really left nowadays).  And I think the Challenger was at least partly manufactured up here, too.  And there's the Marconi works, who do some of the avionics used in get fighters (and are going bust fairly rapidly :( )
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Sandwich on August 19, 2002, 04:14:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
And there's the Marconi works...



They make those noodles, no? :wink:
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Fozzy on August 19, 2002, 04:29:48 pm
ha, the brits are the best, first the SAS now super tank armor.

i think the only draw back of the force field is that the electricity has noware to flow, i think the clocest we will ever get is this electric armor and some tort of lightening gun (static gun) which could nock out incoming missiles, as fast as... erm.. lightening
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: vyper on August 19, 2002, 04:37:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


Summer?  Is that, like, the rainy season?  Or the monsoon season?   In the event of a war, the first Scots' troops sent out to battle would be a battalion of Buckfast wielding neds, anyways.  Shir.


PMSL!
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Shrike on August 19, 2002, 04:52:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
Actually I think that honour goes to Thermo-nuclear weaponry. It's the best thing for killing everything/anything.
On the basis of energy released, nukes are far less efficient than a tank gun at killing tanks...... and are in many cases tactically inadvised.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Zeronet on August 19, 2002, 05:47:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
For the same reason a high tension power line doesn't destroy itself.... it'd designed to not be destroyed. ;)

The metal jet from a HEAT warhead causes a short circuit between the two layers of armor.  No significant effects outside the armor system.

And this is why the tank is still the best way of destroying other tanks..... it uses a gun instead of a missile.


It might stop a HEAT round and some other types of artillary or ordance. Still this armour is designed against annoying RPG weapons etc, tanks arent a problem, cos they are easier to spot and shoot :p
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Shrike on August 19, 2002, 07:44:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet
It might stop a HEAT round and some other types of artillary or ordance. Still this armour is designed against annoying RPG weapons etc, tanks arent a problem, cos they are easier to spot and shoot :p
No actually, tanks are the problem.... because they don't need to use HEAT rounds to destroy enemy tanks.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Sandwich on August 19, 2002, 08:28:27 pm
Bah - both of you, shut up! You're agreeing with each other and yet you continue to argue? :p ;)

The armor was developed to counter small-to-medium sized shaped-charge warheads, not tank shells or direct artillery fire. Basically, it's effective against anything that penetrates the tank armor using finesse as opposed to brute force.

*wonders if Israel will aquire the tech* ;7
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Pera on August 19, 2002, 11:22:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
No actually, tanks are the problem.... because they don't need to use HEAT rounds to destroy enemy tanks.


No, but they do need HEAT:s against APC:s. If you use a sub-caliber round(or whatever it is in english, the armour piercing "dart"), it's possible that it only makes 2 neat holes on both sides of the APC without causing any considerable damage.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: CP5670 on August 19, 2002, 11:24:19 pm
Quote
On the basis of energy released, nukes are far less efficient than a tank gun at killing tanks...... and are in many cases tactically inadvised.


It eliminates the tank all the same, though. :D
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Shrike on August 20, 2002, 12:21:29 am
Quote
Originally posted by Pera
No, but they do need HEAT:s against APC:s. If you use a sub-caliber round(or whatever it is in english, the armour piercing "dart"), it's possible that it only makes 2 neat holes on both sides of the APC without causing any considerable damage.
Depends on how thick the armor is, but you've probably got internal spalling as well.... granted not as effective as a HEAT round most likely.

And HEAT rounds are by no means 'finesse'.  lol
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Carl on August 20, 2002, 05:08:28 am
armouuuuuuuuuuur

:rolleyes:
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: vyper on August 20, 2002, 05:29:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Bah - both of you, shut up! You're agreeing with each other and yet you continue to argue? :p ;)

The armor was developed to counter small-to-medium sized shaped-charge warheads, not tank shells or direct artillery fire. Basically, it's effective against anything that penetrates the tank armor using finesse as opposed to brute force.

*wonders if Israel will aquire the tech* ;7


Of course we will share the tech with you... in exchange for blowing up a few middle eastern countries! ;)


Combine this with the chameleon (sp?) project and whooo... things are gonna get interesting.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Sandwich on August 20, 2002, 05:47:52 am
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
Combine this with the chameleon (sp?) project...


Quiet! Don't you know that's part of The Plan™?? ;)
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Nico on August 20, 2002, 06:29:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by Pera


No, but they do need HEAT:s against APC:s. If you use a sub-caliber round(or whatever it is in english, the armour piercing "dart"), it's possible that it only makes 2 neat holes on both sides of the APC without causing any considerable damage.


mmh, bullets that goes freely through an APC, isn't that bad for the "P" part of APC? :p
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: NeoHunter on August 20, 2002, 06:41:51 am
That's the next step of military evolution I think.

Next thing you know, all military ground vehicles will have this ability.

But it sounds knid of farmiliar.

"Polarize the hull"

Rings a bell?:D
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Pera on August 20, 2002, 06:55:01 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter

"Polarize the hull"

Rings a bell?:D


:lol: Now that I think of it... :nod:

And Venom, perhaps, but not quite as bad as getting some molten metal on your face. :devil:
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Sandwich on August 20, 2002, 07:40:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter
But it sounds knid of farmiliar.

"Polarize the hull"

Rings a bell?:D


Sorry bro - I beat ya to the punch this time:

Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Heh - I was wondering if that is an example of one of the few things that man has invented that hasn't been predicted by sci-fi yet. But then I realized that sci-fi had it covered already: "Polarize the hull plating," anyone? :D


Yub Yub! ;)
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Styxx on August 20, 2002, 08:15:16 am
Lol, indeed there's not much people can invent that hasn't been covered yet. But I have hope. :D
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Kellan on August 20, 2002, 10:11:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
On the basis of energy released, nukes are far less efficient than a tank gun at killing tanks...... and are in many cases tactically inadvised.


Erm...yes. Quite.

And as for new technology, Styxx: Sci-Fi didn't predict the mass explosion of computers, for example. Look at 2001 - in the film they just used "space age biros" to make notes, but we have PDAs and the like. I'm sure there's a load of stuff that will be invented that people haven't predicted accurately. Of course it's easy to be vague and say there will be "interstellar travel"...but that's not exactly rocket science (pun fully intended, of course) :D
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Zeronet on August 20, 2002, 10:36:21 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter
That's the next step of military evolution I think.

Next thing you know, all military ground vehicles will have this ability.

 


Not without paying us stupidly large amounts of money. Still its naive to think we know everything, we dont. Science is always catching up with Sci-fi, and we cant predict what technologies or advances we will make in a thousand years.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Nico on August 20, 2002, 11:11:28 am
Quote
Originally posted by Pera


:lol: Now that I think of it... :nod:

And Venom, perhaps, but not quite as bad as getting some molten metal on your face. :devil:


hmm, to me, getting molten metal or a bullet in the head doesn't make much difference I guess, an, in fact, you might even survive the molten metal in some circumstances ;)
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Styxx on August 20, 2002, 01:49:08 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kellan
Erm...yes. Quite.

And as for new technology, Styxx: Sci-Fi didn't predict the mass explosion of computers, for example. Look at 2001 - in the film they just used "space age biros" to make notes, but we have PDAs and the like. I'm sure there's a load of stuff that will be invented that people haven't predicted accurately. Of course it's easy to be vague and say there will be "interstellar travel"...but that's not exactly rocket science (pun fully intended, of course) :D


True - but then again, several other sci-fi works predicted PDAs and similars. The problem is the sheer number of sci-fi publications out there (the infinite monkeys with typewriters analogy).
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: an0n on August 20, 2002, 02:04:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
True - but then again, several other sci-fi works predicted PDAs and similars. The problem is the sheer number of sci-fi publications out there (the infinite monkeys with typewriters analogy).

That's one of my life-time ambitions. To actually get together 40 million chimps, monkeys and apes, sit them infront of type-writters and whip them till they've written me the thousand best novels ever written.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Zeronet on August 20, 2002, 02:13:05 pm
Monkeys have a good imagination.
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Kellan on August 21, 2002, 03:33:13 am
Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet
Monkeys have a good imagination.


You're speaking from experience, right? :D
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Styxx on August 21, 2002, 10:35:46 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kellan
You're speaking from experience, right? :D


You mean personal experience, I guess? :D
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: Galemp on August 21, 2002, 03:44:50 pm
Force fields, eh? Cool. Too bad we'll have to wait until the 24th century to get shields from the Shivans.

Monkeys... typewriters... hmm... I read an interesting article on that truism a few years ago in the Washington Post. Something about it being true, but with an asterisk. And that not only would they write Hamlet, but also every other Shakespearian work, and that letter you wrote to your girlfriend yesterday, and the Great American Novel that will not be published until 2047, and everything else that ever has been and ever will be written. Including the entire contents of the HLPBB. :blah:
Title: OT-New British Armour
Post by: an0n on August 21, 2002, 03:48:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Including the entire contents of the HLPBB. :blah:

Pff. Silly rabbit, tri.....err...php and html are for ki..er...forumites.