Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Kazashi on August 23, 2002, 08:22:24 am
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I've been searching through the forum, and other Freespace related sites for some model guidelines which I'm sure I saw somewhere. It was the sort of guide which mentined things like "models should be made with only triangles and quads" and "models should not exceed xxxx polygons, with a max of xxx polys per submodel". I want to check if there might be some rule I'm breaking mesh-wise, and help narrow down why only some of the models I make can be successfully implemented ingame (mostly explained by the fact that I'm going lwo>cob>pof most of the time, but I still want to know the guidelines).
If anyone knows where this mysterious guide is and can pint me towards it, or can rattle some paramaters off the top of their head, or want to flame me because no such guide exists or is extremely simple to find, then please let me know :)
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IP andrews made somthing like that, I have it copied to my desktop, so I couldn't point you a link...but pester him...
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i don't know about a guide like that, but i can tell you a couple of those things:
Originally posted by Kazashi
"models should be made with only triangles and not with quads-they can produce clipping problems as can intesecting polys" and "models should not exceed 3500 polygons(that's modview's limit-without it it is VERY hard to mod. fs2's limit is 5000), with a max of 850 polys per submodel".
there's currently a limit on turret numbers to about 81 i think, and a rotating object limit of 10. so only 10 duel rotating turrets or radar etc allowed.(although DTP's modifications bump this to 100 :) )
once Kazan perfects pcs's viewer, mod view's annoying limit of 3500 polys will no longer be a problem. :)
what kinds of problems are you having with the ships?
(and if i'm wrong about any/all of this, someone please correct/flame me :D )
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LOD0 LOD1 LOD2 LOD3
Standard FS2 Fighter 300 150 75 10
Detailed FS2 Fighter 500 250 100 10
Small FS2 Cap Ship 600 300 150 20
Medium FS2 Cap Ship 800 400 200 30
Large FS2 Cap Ship 1000 500 250 40
ammount of polygons that you should have per LOD...
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you can use quads ( or more ) as soon as they're perfectly planar. I don't recommend it tho.
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oh, yeah, forgot that. :)
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Originally posted by Analazon
LOD0 LOD1 LOD2 LOD3
Standard FS2 Fighter 300 150 75 10
Detailed FS2 Fighter 500 250 100 10
Small FS2 Cap Ship 600 300 150 20
Medium FS2 Cap Ship 800 400 200 30
Large FS2 Cap Ship 1000 500 250 40
ammount of polygons that you should have per LOD... [/B]
Well....i'd say some of that depends on the ship itself, though - most V capships tend to have over 1000 polys, partly due to destroyed turret objects in some cases, or down to turret count in the case of the larger ships. I'd say actually cutting down the polycount in LODs is arguably more important......
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How do you calculate the polygons on a model in ts3?
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Originally posted by venom2506
you can use quads ( or more ) as soon as they're perfectly planar. I don't recommend it tho.
Weird, the one model that has worked for me so far has a number of non-planar quads. Then again others have, and they don't work.
The main problem I'm having with the ships is that they don't work in the game (or FRED2). I can open and edit them with ModelView fine, there's no complaining. But when I modify the table and try adding one to FRED, it crashes. Would the fact that it works in the viewer mean at all that there's something I'm not doing correctly in the table, rather than the problem lying with the model itself?
Also, was there something about the max number of polys a vertex can inhabit? That sounds vaguely familiar, but again it might be another crossed wire :)
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The problem is that with non-tirangulated faces you may not have perfect UV mapping (the texture warps / flexes), and also that the collision detection for that poly may be dodgy or non existant
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Originally posted by Analazon
LOD0 LOD1 LOD2 LOD3
Standard FS2 Fighter 300 150 75 10
Detailed FS2 Fighter 500 250 100 10
Small FS2 Cap Ship 600 300 150 20
Medium FS2 Cap Ship 800 400 200 30
Large FS2 Cap Ship 1000 500 250 40
[/B]
Agreed, but I think that is not an issue now, due to most recent computers handle higher poly ships... I for instance, make some fighters with 800 polys max...
Also, what really makes the FS2 slowdowns are the textures... for example, you only make full use of a 256*256 texture on a fighter, when it is at 100 meters max, but for above 100 meters, you can already use the 128*128 texture, with no loss on detail. Now, Fs2 doesn't make that because, it only uses the 256*256 texes when the Texture Detail is at its max, and th game models only change LODs at a very long range... and that makes slowdowns that aren't really necessary... I cannot explain it very well. But try this: make a fighter model, with say 1000 polys, texture it, and create the 4 LODs ( but these LODs only change in the texture detail, not the model poly count...), then make the first lod only visible within 100 meters, the second within saey 400, and so on... then make a mission loaded only with Myrmidons, with the amount necessary to cause slowdowns, and then make another one with the same number of the fighter you made. Dump the texture detail at the maximum in the options, and test the missions. You will see wich one is slower... :)
Also, look at Starlancer for instance. It does not use LODs, the fighters are really high poly (some reach 1300 or more...), only the textures change with the distance. But in a mission fuul of ships, it doesn't slow down (or at least not as much as FS2...)... oh, and it has much better graphical effects... ;)
My 2 cents :)
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:eek: :eek: :eek: just found the place that came from: http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/shipcreationguide.html
all i have to say is: WOW. this tute should be the standard for newbies :nod: very cool good job IP!
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That does look like a pretty good tut from the outset, also contains a number of guidelines which I was looking for. However, none of them fixed the problem I was having.
I was able to sort out my problem by using Truespace 1 to glue it to a light (which didn't need doing once upon a time for some reason), which allowed POFCS to finally convert the cob file (rather than trying the regularly used cob2pof), then edit and save that, and have it appear ingame. This process works with all my meshes so far, whether they have quads or not, and whether they have open ends or not. :)
Now I can get on with making my models for no-one in particular :D
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Originally posted by Vasudan Admiral
:eek: :eek: :eek: just found the place that came from: http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/shipcreationguide.html
all i have to say is: WOW. this tute should be the standard for newbies :nod: very cool good job IP!
No Don't use that thing anymore. It's way out of date. Check out the "Post Modding Guide" instead. I should take mine off line.
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well ...despite the fact everybody said ..boolean and quad are bad... actualy FS2 likes QUAD quite much ... not to mention that Boolean are the base for modeling..as general RULE..use the BOLLEAN when u want...only problem is the the union part might need Triagulation and just in that part.
I know that for some of you i am quite unknown guy.
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Booleans are bad. Don't trust 'em. Keep an eye on 'em. Use 'em anyway.
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Boolean are good:) Use them... Thru conflict u will progress ...
2 ways..Grow your mesh or Sculpt your mesh:)
Hmmm Ip sound like a vorlon:)..Hey he is a Vorlon ..one million years old;7
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you can use booleans but you must remember to fix up you're mesh after each time, I sujest not useing them untill you can do what you want without them, so you get good at editing the mesh directly
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Exactly what sort of fixes do you need after using a boolean anyway?