Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Kestrellius on February 05, 2020, 10:34:12 pm

Title: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on February 05, 2020, 10:34:12 pm
I've recently been working on a series of new visual effects for certain retail weapons, in hopes of inclusion in the MediaVPs. I got done with all the weapons I intended to improve the other day, so this post will provide some screenshots and videos for the fine people of HLP to evaluate.

The pack is on Knossos as a mod, but unfortunately there seem to be some issues with that, and people haven't been able to get it to work properly. Hopefully that'll be fixed soon. In the meantime, I've uploaded it to Mediafire, so if nothing else you can download the raw files. There'll be a link toward the end of the post.

Now. On to the eyecandy.

Hidden Text: Show

The new Subach effect:

(https://i.imgur.com/1jeArLf.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/nhd3xVv.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/BOj9Edt.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/9sUK7jb.png)

Subachs, plus Mekhus:

(https://i.imgur.com/SFGTMhI.png)

Blob turrets, Terran and Vasudan:

(https://i.imgur.com/Mjkdatu.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/dI3BVm6.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/1ABS7Oi.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/Asfam3A.png)

Shivan primary lasers:

(https://i.imgur.com/naUHprp.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/hSchSF6.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/Tzikk3M.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/62Ug61z.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/hflbp2i.png)

Shivan turrets. The ones trailing particles are Shivan Turret Lasers, while the more spherical ones are Megafunk turrets.

(https://i.imgur.com/ktRoisJ.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/t0FqFT3.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/7cOdjby.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/Rbc6dSs.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/uquTEGe.png)

My version of Shivan flak:

(https://i.imgur.com/rmrAUcI.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ANqDcoU.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/Sqw8kIA.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/6rmMwIX.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/cUX1izs.png)


All right. Hopefully that'll be enough screenshots.

Videos:

Here's a small test scenario, showing off the Subach, Shivan primaries, and Terran and Shivan blob turrets.

This one displays my Shivan flak, as well as the Subach.

A larger scenario, showing off all the various weapons in a more elaborate context. You can see the Vasudan blobs and Mekhu here, too.

EDIT: Another version of the first test, showing a new iteration of the Shivan turret laser.

Here's an explanation of the rationale behind the Shivan primaries. I'll likely edit in a more thorough and organized version of this, covering all the weapons, in future.

Hidden Text: Show
First of all, the basis for the look I ended up with is rooted in headcanon, and headcanons will vary, but even if you don't agree with my interpretation of Shivan technology the effects ought to work fine as simply arbitrary pretty effects.

Now, when trying to come up with visuals for Shivan weaponry, I had a few concerns. One is that the Shivans are supposed to be advanced and powerful. So, one approach would be to give them things that look like supertech doom weapons.

But, problem: the fact of the matter is, in terms of gameplay, Shivan weapons (at least the fighter weapons) are very unimpressive. So I could make the effects smaller and less spectacular to reflect that, but that doesn't seem ideal either.

One other thought I had was this, and this applies to many of the other weapons, too: I want to provide space for mods to escalate into. That is, various mods dealing with the Shivans will no doubt give them more impressive weapons. Those weapons ought to have matching visuals, so I want to be careful to make the visuals for these retail weapons somewhat proportional, in a sense -- so that the mods have somewhere to go with their effects.

Now, in my interpretation of the Shivans, the reason so much of their tech is oddly weak is that the ones we encounter in FS1 and 2 are in something of a degraded state. BP provides a similar excuse -- there, the Shivans are deliberately non-optimized, and so they have weird vestigial technology lying around that isn't implemented properly.

So that gave me my motif: the Shivan weapons should look like supertech doom weapons...which aren't working correctly. So: in that early screenshot, the Shivan PoV one -- the main effect there, with the rings and the flash bits, is not the projectile. It's sort of an extended muzzle-flash. The idea is, the weapon is supposed to fire this ball of concentrated hurty-juice, held together by some sort of gravitic containment field.

But the field generators are broken, or not aligned properly, so the projectile shoots out -- and then the containment field shoots out too slowly to catch up, fails, and breaks apart.
The projectile, meanwhile, goes shooting toward the target -- but it's leaking hurty-juice all over the place, so it's trailing this inconstant gaseous effect. Then it hits the target, or dissipates, and blows up in a puff of gas. Still pretty destructive, but not as destructive as it was supposed to be.

I think this provides a nice balance of visuals that look good while not seeming out-of-place for the rather weak weapons that are the Shivan primaries.

A few known concerns that I have:

- Given the teal color I gave its starting phase, the Mekhu comes out looking very Kayser-y. I may end up changing the coloration a bit to remedy that.
- While I stand by the concept I used for the Megafunk turret, the animated bitmap I used on the projectile is a little lackluster. This has to do with the fact that I'm using fairly primitive tools -- creating that animation was pretty time-consuming, and iterating on it would be even more so. I might take another crack at it in the future, though.
- I don't love the way the Shivan Turret Laser ended up. It's okay, but it'd be nice if I could figure out something better. I'm open to ideas, though if possible I'd like it to remain distinctive.

Here's the Mediafire link:

http://www.mediafire.com/folder/xoul6kj93vt79/mvptweaks-1.0.1

Please take a look at the screenshots and videos -- and play the mod, if you can -- and let me know what you think.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nyctaeus on February 05, 2020, 10:41:56 pm
Your bloom and your fov are crazy :P

This stuff is hot tho. I mentioned on Discord that I dislike shivan flak thing, because circles everywhere. Rest is beautiful. Particle-rich turrets really gives the impression of hot, angry plasma projectiles. 
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Asteroth on February 05, 2020, 10:43:15 pm
I'll echo what I said on discord. I'm in favor of most of it, the only thing I would change are the shivan primary muzzle flashes to something a little more understated instead of those tubular rings. I would also slightly bring in the particles on the turret lasers, to fly around randomly less and simply come out the back as a trail more, and also have the flak particles die off quicker to stay in a smaller area. But otherwise, I'm totally in favor, especially the more "lasery" unique flak for shivans (new sound effect???).
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: mjn.mixael on February 05, 2020, 10:49:52 pm
I agree, I do like these a lot. (Personally I wouldn't change the blobs at all.)

There Shivan flak is cool but maybe a little too flashy. (Too many circles)

Personally I'd like to see you take this further and do more if the weapons.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: The E on February 06, 2020, 01:12:24 am
These are excellent.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on February 06, 2020, 06:03:18 am
Those effects look pretty nice :)

I'm not a real fan of the Shivan flak effects, they look a bit too heavy and the Shivan Megafunk thing looks... unimpressive, kinda static.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Iain Baker on February 06, 2020, 09:57:51 am
Nice! I would second the toning down the shivan muzzeflash tube thing.

Re the larger spherical blod turret shot - nice, it makes it distinct from the other blobs. Only thing I would suggest is perhaps replace the hit effects when it hits since it looks the same as the shivan flack burst, and flack bursts.

Going off on a tangent a bit here - but one of my persistent bugbears with FS ever since retail is that it is sometimes difficult to tell explosions apart. for example - the shockwave from a warhead being shot down is the same as when it impacts. Did that last second interception work or did it make contact? If the explosions / shockwaves were visually distinct you could tell.

Similarly vanilla Flack bursts resemble explosions too much - making it difficult to tell if something blowing up or not. When using it against a cap ship it it is sometimes tricky to tell if it has made contact or is bursting just short of the target. In the videos above the flack appears to just dissapear into the demon - I'm assuming it is hitting it but some visual cue - sparks for example - would help, not to mention look cool.

Just my two cents - I am liking what you are doing here :-)
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on February 06, 2020, 10:09:47 am
Thanks for the kind words, everyone!

So it looks like the consensus is the Shivan flak doesn't work all that well, and we'd be better off using the Inferno version. All right.

Re: Megafunk looking static: can you elaborate? I assume you're talking about the fact that it's radially symmetric rather than being elongated or whatever along the axis of travel. I was sort of going for the "photon torpedo" look, since -- given the Megafunk's absurdly low speed, making it look like it was supposed to be fast and sleek doesn't seem like it would turn out well.

I think I'll keep the Megafunk explosion as is unless there are other objections, since it looks like my flak won't be used.

Re: Shivan muzzle rings. I'm pretty attached to that effect, honestly. It serves to make the Shivan weapons unique and distinctive, and, if you buy the reasoning I posted in the OP, it tells a story. (Not to mention how tricky it was to get it to work properly, but that's the sunk-cost fallacy talking.) Granted, though, it was definitely not designed for player use, which given Trimurti might be Asteroth's objection.

Still...I suppose I can find a way to tone it down. Just make it dimmer, maybe. What's the problematic aspect -- the rings themselves, or the flash at the end? Both?

(One way to do it would just be to reduce the radius of the effect, but I don't want to do that -- the rings are supposed to be encompassing the bolt, so they need to be wider than it.)
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Iain Baker on February 06, 2020, 10:17:16 am
Having now read through your explanation of the muzzel flash rings it actually makes a lot of sense. Keep 'em :-)

Of course now looking forward to seeing what people do with the idea going forward  ;7
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Iain Baker on February 06, 2020, 01:00:44 pm
At the risk of sounding dumb - how do I play the demo? All I see when starting it is the fs2 retail campaign and the usual massive battle single missions?
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on February 06, 2020, 02:24:50 pm
At the risk of sounding dumb - how do I play the demo? All I see when starting it is the fs2 retail campaign and the usual massive battle single missions?

There should be two missions called "Effects Test" in the single missions category. If there aren't, I'm not sure why -- but others weren't having any success installing the mod at all, and I've been seeing some issues reported with other campaigns recently, so it seems there might be something going on with Knossos.

If you don't mind, could you look in the mod's folder and see what's in there? It's possible that the mod package didn't actually download for some reason.

Also, if you play retail missions, do the new effects appear?
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Iain Baker on February 06, 2020, 03:29:53 pm
in the folder there is:

mod.json

user.json



Thats everything - and I don't think the new effects were working.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on February 06, 2020, 04:17:42 pm
You can drop the file manually into the Knossos/MVP folder too.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on February 06, 2020, 05:02:13 pm
Okay. Yeah, that's what happened when I tried to download it on a different PC, too. (Though for me I got an error and the game refused to launch.) I'm thinking that's a Knossos issue.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on February 06, 2020, 05:23:01 pm
Mmhh that's probably bad. Anyway, here's the direct link to the Knossos DL, so you don't have to update MF everytime you change something: https://fsnebula.org/mod/mvptweaks
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on February 12, 2020, 12:18:13 am
OP has been updated with a new video, showing a modified Shivan turret laser effect.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Iain Baker on February 12, 2020, 11:06:51 am
 :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Solatar on February 18, 2020, 10:22:10 am
These are really, really cool. :yes: As much as I liked the old Subach effects, I like these a lot more. The animated bits on the turret projectiles, have, IMHO, the exact effect you were looking for (big, unstable blobs of hot plasma). The Huge and Megafunk turrets now look like they're moving slowly because they're powerful. It took me a bit to get used to the giant muzzeflashes on some of the turrets (regular Vasudan one, I think?), but it's growing on me.

I can't wait to see what you do with some (or all hopefully?) of the other weapons.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kiloku on February 18, 2020, 11:28:16 am
Whenever I saw weirdly-angled PNGs as ship projectiles it really took a toll on immersion, these tweaks are great to avoid that!
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: General Battuta on February 18, 2020, 11:50:40 am
Random Q without going to the slightest effort to check, sorry: have primaries been given a lifetime and range such that they play their impact animation when dying, rather than just winking out? One of the best aesthetic changes to the game and it only takes some table tweaks.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on February 18, 2020, 12:36:42 pm
Random Q without going to the slightest effort to check, sorry: have primaries been given a lifetime and range such that they play their impact animation when dying, rather than just winking out? One of the best aesthetic changes to the game and it only takes some table tweaks.

Yes. The ones I messed with, anyway. Yeah, I've always thought that looked much better.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on February 18, 2020, 01:05:51 pm
That particle effect tbm was named mv_flak instead of mv_effects :nono:
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on March 14, 2020, 04:52:29 pm
GTVA Flak and Fusion Mortar:



Tell me what you think of 'em.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: DefCynodont119 on March 14, 2020, 06:11:13 pm
Ehh, I'm not going to lie, I prefer the current flak effects, the quick flashes would work for something like Solaris or Star Fox but they really do not look like Freespace; (to me) also the "fiery explosions" of the old flak register as more powerful and dangerous, and are also easier to see. I don't want to sound harsh but this looks too much like harmless fire crackers then something I would avoid.


Also while I do really like the effect you have for the Fusion Mortar, I'm fairly certain that the Fusion Mortar is intended as a missile and not a primary, that seems like a pretty radical change.   :wtf:
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 14, 2020, 06:20:04 pm
Same here- I think the Flak Explosions don't really fit; the particle effects look good, but I'd prefer to see how they look like with the 3D model.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: mjn.mixael on March 14, 2020, 06:34:26 pm
To be fair... Flak pretty much is harmless firecrackers.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: spart_n on March 14, 2020, 06:54:12 pm
Maybe it's because of my difficulty but yeah, flak is something i ignore in comparison to laser turrets lol, only threatening when my shield is down and good luck with that sometimes
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on March 14, 2020, 07:20:52 pm
Same here- I think the Flak Explosions don't really fit; the particle effects look good, but I'd prefer to see how they look like with the 3D model.

3D model...?

Also while I do really like the effect you have for the Fusion Mortar, I'm fairly certain that the Fusion Mortar is intended as a missile and not a primary, that seems like a pretty radical change.   :wtf:

Well, so, the thing about trails is that it's really goddamn hard to get them to look good. They work in certain cases, but if you try to get them to carry a whole effect it tends not to work -- hence why I tend to use particles more. (I had a hell of a time with that trail on the Shivan primaries, let me tell you.)

Basically, if the trail is really thin, it'll look okay. But anything thick enough that you can actually see the texture, and -- no matter how pretty your bitmap might be* -- it'll come out looking like dull paper. I think what's happening is that the post-processing doesn't get applied to trails, or something like that. (Because from what I remember, without post-processing, everything looked like paper.) Maybe they're not considered light-emitting objects the way lasers and particles are, so they don't put off glow?

[*With very limited exceptions. If the trail bitmap is very simple -- just a white core with a colored glow, and a simple gradient, or something like that -- then that can work better.]

I've been toying with the idea of submitting a feature request for the ability to set a trail to render...the way those other things do...but I'd have to learn how to do that, so I'm putting it off.

Also: I'm thinking of making some changes to other missiles; if I do that, the particle effects on secondaries might not be quite so unusual. I don't think they'd work on swarm missiles -- too chaotic; you need the lines to see what's going on -- but things like the Trebuchet I fully intend to turn into glorious particle-trail abominations. (I mean, it ought to look impressive.)
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 14, 2020, 07:29:31 pm
(for the Harbinger/Fusion Mortar)
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on March 14, 2020, 07:30:16 pm
I don't understand what you mean, though. If you mean the missile model, they have that in the video.

They should be especially visible around 0:57.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 14, 2020, 07:32:10 pm
They have? :wtf: It's not visible at all on the video.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on March 14, 2020, 07:33:26 pm
Lighting settings strike again, I guess.

Lemme turn on ambient and record another video.


It's still not, like, visible visible. But I think you can see it a little better?
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on March 14, 2020, 08:13:01 pm
Okay, so, it seems like some people prefer the 'splodey flak, while others seem to like my flashy kind.

It occurred to me I could sort of combine them, like so:


Not gonna lie -- I still like my version better. It's cleaner, and, IMO, represents more accurately what's happening mechanically -- there's an instantaneous burst of damage in that area, and then it's safe. But this is an option; I think it adds some extra punch to the existing explosion.

Before I commit to anything, I want to see how peoples' opinions stack up on which look is better. I could make a poll about it, but -- eh, I don't know if that's a good idea. Oh, I know what I'll do.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: DefCynodont119 on March 14, 2020, 08:29:58 pm
I like the Fireball one. It has both flash and punch.  :nod:



EDIT: Oh and sorry I meant to vote yes for a poll but I accidentally hit no.  :banghead:
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Asteroth on March 14, 2020, 09:35:56 pm
I quite like your original new flak, minus the blue particles, so I'd totally take those, but I'd be ok with that compromise one too.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: General Battuta on March 14, 2020, 10:34:15 pm
To be fair... Flak pretty much is harmless firecrackers.

Man you wrong as hell, flak is a death hose
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: mjn.mixael on March 14, 2020, 10:50:29 pm
Flak is black olives on pizza. It bothers me a little.. but not so much that I'm not gonna eat the pizza.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: DefCynodont119 on March 14, 2020, 11:36:48 pm
Flak is black olives on pizza. It bothers me a little.. but not so much that I'm not gonna eat the pizza.

I'm half Hawaiian so It's probably a good Idea for me to stay out of pizza-based analogous discussions.  :nervous:


To be fair... Flak pretty much is harmless firecrackers.

Man you wrong as hell, flak is a death hose

It really depends on your difficulty setting, Flak is a killing machine on hard and above, more so then AAA beams because flak has a wider area of effect, but on easy it can't get past your shields so you can fly though it for much longer.



BACK ON TOPIC:  I'm behind the Flash + Fireball flak 100%.   It's a good compromise and the effects complement each other.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 15, 2020, 04:34:58 am
Lighting settings strike again, I guess.

Lemme turn on ambient and record another video.

It's still not, like, visible visible. But I think you can see it a little better?

Yep, I get it now. Looks good to me. :nod:
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 15, 2020, 04:38:46 am
It really depends on your difficulty setting, Flak is a killing machine on hard and above, more so then AAA beams because flak has a wider area of effect, but on easy it can't get past your shields so you can fly though it for much longer.

Most of the Aeolus anti-fighter abilities comes from the 6 flak weapons, it has only 2 AAA beams.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Iain Baker on March 15, 2020, 08:26:43 am
All looks lovely. The hybrid flack is spot on.

The only thing I think that could still do with tweaking are the muzzle flashes on the fusion mortars. They look the same as explosions which can make it tricky to wok out if the ship is being hit or if it is firing back or both. A simple pallet swap would probably suffice - make it match the colour of the fusion mortar projectiles / blobs etc. It would look better and be more useful as a visual que :-)
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on March 15, 2020, 11:06:21 am
Hmm. Yeah, I could do that. It'd be a little time-consuming, because that animation is pretty long and I'd have to recolor every frame individually, but it's not a bad idea.

Maybe I'll recolor the first bit to a pale blue, and then fade it into orange, and leave the later frames as-is.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 15, 2020, 12:20:04 pm
Could you release the current effect of the Fusion Mortar too? I like this one~
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on March 15, 2020, 12:30:55 pm
The muzzle-flash? It's just -- exp04, I think? Maybe 05? It's an existing explosion effect in the MediaVPs -- I think it's used for subsystem destructions, hence why it's confusing to have it as a muzzleflash.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on March 19, 2020, 02:02:01 pm
I like the Shivan "flame" effects on their lasers. That's a good choice. The strobe/orb aesthetic is not.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on March 19, 2020, 05:57:42 pm
I like the Shivan "flame" effects on their lasers. That's a good choice. The strobe/orb aesthetic is not.

Care to elaborate? I assume you mean the muzzle ring/flash, or are you talking about the megafunk laser?
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 19, 2020, 06:18:51 pm
Just my opinion, but I don't think the megafunk laser effect is fitting. Not that the effect itself is bad, in fact it is pretty good (speaking of the bitmap, the impact is good), but the feel I'm getting is that it suits more WoD than classical FS.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on March 19, 2020, 06:37:37 pm
The issue with the megafunk is that it's so unbelievably slow. So if you do a normal...oblong, or teardrop-shaped, or whatever type of bolt, well, for one, it'll look like it's supposed to be moving more quickly, and for another, the sprite-swiveling issue will be really, really bad. The previous megafunk bitmap showcased both those problems.

So by going for a sphere, I can sidestep those issues. Still, I don't love it.

...Though I'm not sure I agree that it doesn't feel FreeSpacey enough. One thing I'm learning doing this is that lots of people have lots of Ideas About What Belongs In FreeSpace, most of which don't make very much sense to me.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 19, 2020, 06:54:37 pm
Well while I don't want to argue about what is "FS" and what not, that design is a departure from most other mod designs that have been made so far, including INF or BP. That can be for worse or for better of course.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on March 19, 2020, 08:54:20 pm
Videos 1 & 2 are hard nopes. Video 4 looks pretty good!
They just look like VFX from Metroid or something. They're exotic, but when I think Shivan weaponry, I think rending, tearing, burning. Unbelievably devastating.
Look at the Shivan firing it's spider arm gun in Hall fight. There's a charging partical effect, but the beam itself is a DBZ style torrent of energy that burns everything around it to ash.
That's why I like the fireball look, but not the strobe/roman candle trail look.
Yeah, also have to say I'm not a fan of "the orb."
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 19, 2020, 09:26:53 pm
Those are already part of the MVPs though.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: DefCynodont119 on March 20, 2020, 12:11:53 am
Is it just me or do the vote tallies not match the opinions posted here?  Because I see way more in favor of Flash+Fireball then Flash only. . .

Vote in the darn poll people.  :rolleyes: 
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Mito [PL] on March 20, 2020, 04:05:53 am
Flash + fireball all the way. Love it.

This entire topic is gorgeous.

Hey, a couple suggestions from me:
The idea for recoloring fusion mortar muzzle flash is a great one. But I'd also say that its impact explosion is kind of underwhelming. Would it be acceptable to resize it a bit?
So what came to be of Shivan flak? What's visible in the video is pretty distinct and okay but I think it's possible to do better, especially now that we've got some interesting regular flak effect. Maybe make the red flak "explosion" a bit more chaotic and irregular, and the inside of it filling up with some slight red fog?
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 20, 2020, 08:30:12 am
Was this the right recolored effect for the Harbinger muzzle flash?

[attachment eaten by a Shivan]
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 20, 2020, 08:36:23 am
But I'd also say that its impact explosion is kind of underwhelming. Would it be acceptable to resize it a bit?

Well the fusion mortar is kind of underwhelming, having a big impact effect makes it look way more powerful than it is.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Mito [PL] on March 20, 2020, 12:28:30 pm
Well, the Fusion Mortar isn't *that* weak, it's supposed to do 160 damage per second, with light beams being: SRed 167, SGreen 64, LTerSlash 182, and SVas at 241.
So, a single fusion Mortar turret has basically the same anti-cap damage output as a Cain, a bit more than an Aeolus, is a half of the damage potential of a Fenris and majority of a Leviathan.

My point is the most about the missile's big fat trail really covering up the impact explosion. Just, let the explosion be a noticeably bigger than the trail.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 20, 2020, 02:00:17 pm
A single Fusion Mortar does as much damage as a Harpoon though.

My point is the most about the missile's big fat trail really covering up the impact explosion. Just, let the explosion be a noticeably bigger than the trail.

Yep it's a rather fancy effect, it should be scaled down a bit.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Kestrellius on March 20, 2020, 03:45:39 pm
Yep it's a rather fancy effect, it should be scaled down a bit.

I sorta...can't do that.

So, here's the deal. Scaling down the particle radius makes the particles, visually, further apart relative to their size. We don't want them too far apart -- that looks weird; it makes it too obvious that this trail of rocket flames is actually a series of discrete round objects.

So there are two potential ways of dealing with this: spawn particles more frequently, or increase the particle speed so that they're more clumped together (then maybe increase the particle lifespan so that the trail is the same length). Unfortunately, I can't do either of these things.

I'm already spawning one set of particles every frame. AIUI, pspew can't do any more than that. I can increase the particle count, but for the Plume type -- which is what I'm using -- that just makes it so that more particles spawn adjacent to each other each frame. (Helix actually will do this properly, but, well, then it's a helix.)

Now, if I used $inflight effect in conjunction with -part.tbm, I could spawn arbitrary numbers of particles each frame and have it work correctly -- but -part.tbm has a huge limitation which makes it nonviable for this task: it can only spawn particles at the exact location of whatever's spawning them, not in a disk like $pspew's default or plume types. That means that if I want any irregularity in the particle positions, rather than having them be a perfectly straight line, I'd need to have them expand outward from the central line, and that wouldn't end up looking good at all.

So what about increasing the particle speed? That should work, right? There's a +vel option under $pspew. Well... I'm using plume, so that I can spawn the particles in a disk at the projectile and then have them move inward to create a nice rat-tail effect. Now here's the thing. For reasons that completely escape me, for plume and ring type effects, the +vel field...doesn't...****in'...work. It's a valid field! You can enter whatever number you want, and the game doesn't throw you an error or anything. It just...doesn't do anything. The particles will be stationary, no matter what number you enter.

So that's where we're at. I'll have more options if the +vel issue is...fixed? I assume it's a bug? or if -part.tbm's functionality is expanded to allow for disk or sphere spawning. I'll work on trying to submit bug reports/feature requests for those two issues -- for the second one, -part.tbm is already very very good, but improving it in that way would expand its usefulness dramatically, and I think it's very worth doing unless it would be super hard to implement for some reason.

Admittedly, I could just bite the bullet scale down the particles. Spawning them in clusters like I have it now does make it look a lot more natural even if they are far apart. I'll experiment with that.
Title: Re: MediaVPs Tweaks Showcase
Post by: Nightmare on March 20, 2020, 06:13:11 pm
Well if there's a bug it should certainly be fixed. :) Also, I'd like to see more features for the particle table but it might be hard to find somebody to work on that right now.