Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: gevatter Lars on August 26, 2002, 06:23:32 pm

Title: Shild for caps
Post by: gevatter Lars on August 26, 2002, 06:23:32 pm
I have a question...what else, I am always asking and asking...

My question is can I make an own shild for caps that fit to the shape of the hull?
I think it is possible, but how is it made?

My thought was, since a shild is a own model (IIRC), to take the main hull of the ship and just make it a bit larger.
Question is when that works, what I have to do to make that model a shild and invisible.
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: demon442 on August 26, 2002, 10:42:11 pm
this whole shielding a capital ship thing has been done before, unsuccessfully I might add.
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: vadar_1 on August 26, 2002, 11:01:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by demon442
this whole shielding a capital ship thing has been done before, unsuccessfully I might add.


Yes it has been done before, successfully. The SSD Diablo was completely shield-meshed.
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: demon442 on August 26, 2002, 11:38:47 pm
I stand corrected.  But didn't the AI stop putting power to shields and all of it to weapons?
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: vadar_1 on August 26, 2002, 11:43:09 pm
The problem with shields on capships is two-fold:

1) To make a skin-tight shield-grid (the diablo had a 'relative form'), youd need ALOT of polys, effectivly doubling the poly-count on the ship. It would also be very difficult. Therefor, a bomber could slip between the gap in the shields (since these are plasmic shields, not force shields), and launch its warhead, then escape back outside the shield, where the shockwave would reflect off it.

2) The main threat to capships besides bombers is beams. Currently shields do not deflect beams... so much for the shields.


However, the AI can handle shields fine.
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: demon442 on August 26, 2002, 11:50:10 pm
Oh well...i was remembering a thread on the VBB about this same thing and thought it was the same problem.
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Grey Wolf on August 27, 2002, 12:10:29 am
I made a ship I called the Titan-class cruiser before, which did have shields. It was a fairly fast ship, with a pretty good setup of forward-facing weaponry. The real threat I noticed toward it was not beams, but flak. It tended to fly quite close to the enemy ships, too close for beams, but get it's shields shredded by flak.
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: CP5670 on August 27, 2002, 02:24:30 am
By the way, who made that Diablo ship? I might want to use that in my campaign, but I don't know who to credit.
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: gevatter Lars on August 27, 2002, 05:20:34 am
Fighter flys behind the shild->
No not if they are so close as I have planed it. Just a few cm above the hull! Show me the ship that can get behind that!

Polycount-> That dosn't matter at the moment. I just want to know how to make them...lets say for a prov of concept / want to know how it would look.

Beams-> There aren't any Beams in Wing Commander so that isn't a problem...well there was one beam, but that was a planet shredding one, so even the best shild would hold a second against it ^___^

Thats it so far...if anyone knows how to make a shild like I have discribed it please tell me.

Other think...can the impact ani be changed? Maybe into something more electric or in something like in, well Wing Commander?
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: karajorma on August 27, 2002, 07:09:34 am
Quote
Originally posted by gevatter Lars
Fighter flys behind the shild->
No not if they are so close as I have planed it. Just a few cm above the hull! Show me the ship that can get behind that!

Polycount-> That dosn't matter at the moment. I just want to know how to make them...lets say for a prov of concept / want to know how it would look.


The two are not mutually exclusive. If you increase the poly count of your model above 3500 you probably won`t even be able to get it to work in game. If you do make a lower poly shield model then it will have gaps large enough to fly a fighter into.

 As for how to make the shield why not download one of the shielded caps already out there. I believe a shielded Aeolus is already out (don`t know the address though)
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Mad Bomber on August 27, 2002, 09:49:05 am
If I remember right, Kazan made a few shielded capships for UA, but never used them.
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: gevatter Lars on August 27, 2002, 11:35:37 am
That didn't realy solve my problem... I have searched for shilded models, but every time I convert them to pof to see how it works only the model is converted without the shield.

I have made a very simple model, a box and a bigger box as shield and got both in TS.
What do I have to do now to get this shield effect for the big box?
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: StratComm on August 27, 2002, 02:22:40 pm
Simple.

1.  Make sure it is untextured
2.  Call it "shield" in truespace
3.  Give it a light like any sub object should have (I think)
4.  Group the shield and the light together and glue them to the hull as a subobject
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Killfrenzy on August 27, 2002, 03:58:10 pm
Correction of 1) Needs to have a monotone colour. :)
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: gevatter Lars on August 27, 2002, 05:31:04 pm
Seems as if I got it working...now I have to make a new shild for every ship in the mod...damm it, but its ok as long I can keep the polycount low enough to keep it playable and high enough to make it looking good.
The Confed ships would be easy mostly boxes from WC3-4 but WC 1+2 will be very difficult...

and thanks for helping. Hope that I can show you some results in the future.
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: aldo_14 on August 27, 2002, 05:34:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
By the way, who made that Diablo ship? I might want to use that in my campaign, but I don't know who to credit.


MEEEE!!!!!!

:)

Incidentally, the Diablo mesh doesn't really match the hull cos I couldn't model it well enough in Blender. :)  It worked ok, although I never used it much cos The Ghost and the Darkness was stillborn.  The sides are horribly weak, though, due to the AI's broadsiding tactics.

Personally, I'd try and make partly shielded capships - i.e. only top and bottom, or something, so there's a weakness to probe for. :nod:

Of course, I have other reasons for liking this idea....
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Grey Wolf on August 27, 2002, 08:24:05 pm
I wish we could do shields like in the Honor Harrignton books for capships. Inpenetrable grav bands cover the top and bottom, with sidewall generators for the sides, and a perfect up-the-kilt or down-the-throat if you manage to get in front of it :)
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Galemp on August 29, 2002, 08:31:41 pm
Well, I suppose this is as good as a time as any to publicly release the...

[glow=black]SHIELDED LUCIFER MODEL!![/glow]

Made by DTP for the Freespace Port, but never implemented. Stealth or someone should be able to now, in my absence.
You guys can contact DTP on how he made it. It doesn't open in modelview but it works fine in-game. Have fun with it.
Get it HERE now! (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fsport/main/capital02.pof)
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Stealth on August 29, 2002, 10:32:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Well, I suppose this is as good as a time as any to publicly release the...

[glow=black]SHIELDED LUCIFER MODEL!![/glow]


Made by DTP for the Freespace Port, but never implemented. Stealth or someone should be able to now, in my absence.
You guys can contact DTP on how he made it. It doesn't open in modelview but it works fine in-game. Have fun with it.
Get it HERE now! (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fsport/main/capital02.pof) [/B]


eh?  me?

what do you want me to do with it?  let me know and i'll do it

you should let me know about these posts, i almost missed it

;)

let me know
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Nico on August 30, 2002, 02:18:34 am
Quote
Originally posted by vadar_1
The problem with shields on capships is two-fold:

1) To make a skin-tight shield-grid (the diablo had a 'relative form'), youd need ALOT of polys, effectivly doubling the poly-count on the ship. It would also be very difficult



Title: Shild for caps
Post by: gevatter Lars on August 30, 2002, 05:02:43 am
OK I have got the shield working, now I have other questions
1) Is it possible to change the impact "ani"
2) Can the size of the impact be reduced or increased?
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Galemp on September 01, 2002, 09:14:25 pm
The size of the impact is currently relative to the size of the polygon hit. On fighters the polys are small enough to make a nice sized impact ani, but on larger ships like the Lucifer you need to break it down...
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Nico on September 02, 2002, 01:36:13 am
and yeah, you can replace the impact ani ( I think it's shieldhit.ani or something like that). for test (and fun), replace it with a copy of the shockwave ani :) ( and post pics :D )
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: gevatter Lars on September 02, 2002, 08:11:43 am
I have searched the Ani's with VPview and found many Ani's, but where are these Shield and shochwave ANI???
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Nico on September 02, 2002, 08:17:22 am
search again then, coz I've changed both in OTT :p ( tho the shield one is ugly, has to be redone )
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: gevatter Lars on September 02, 2002, 10:28:30 am
I found them and have also changed the Ani as you said. The effect is....well...intresting. I would like to post a pic, but I can't. Would someone do so for me? Just 2 or 3 pics.
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Kazan on September 05, 2002, 10:03:24 pm
any ship with shields - meshed or nonmeshed is subject to a signifficantly less amount of shockwave damage - the helios and cyclops torpedos loose a lot of punch
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: gevatter Lars on September 06, 2002, 06:45:43 am
Damage thats a good point...
Could it be made that Cap ships have inpenetrable shields, except for Torpedos?
Isn't there a value in the Table for weapons that says how much damage it does to hull, shield and subsystems? Could that be used to make fighter primarys useless against cap-shields?
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Kazan on September 06, 2002, 09:17:38 am
those are universal so those weapons would be equally ineffective against fighter sheilds unless we made some code - add a weapon flag capship-shield-ineffective which would have to be coded in

when the shield-hit code is ran it checks weapon for capship-shield-ineffective on the weapon and "cruiser" or "capital" [or the other large ship classes] or "bigdamage" or similiar flags on the ship and if they're both true it has no effect on the shields other than making them flare
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: Nico on September 06, 2002, 09:27:43 am
well, for capships anyway, even if it's possible, doing a shield mesh isn't great. doing it ala privateer2 would be the best way ( plus it looks cool ).
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: gevatter Lars on September 06, 2002, 10:01:08 am
and how is it done in Priv2?
Didn't they also use a shield-mesh?
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: KARMA on September 06, 2002, 11:32:42 am
its done like in any other space sim (as i can remember)
almost all the spacesims have capitalships with shields and almost none of em have modelled shields
shields are simulated with a different hit effect: when shield goes to 0 the hit effect changes in to a hull hit effect
older games had not noticebale differences between the two effects or none at all, in the most recent difference may be more significant
for example in xvt the differences between the graphic effects are very minimal but it changes the sound,
in xwa the energy of the laser hit seems disperding in a minimal area, and when shields are at 0 the effect reproduce instead bruises and holes on hull
in wc prophecy as far as i can remember there is no big difference like in starlancer
and i can't remember in tachyon to be honest
in my opinion even enabling the shields when shield model is not present without changing the effect(so you just can't damage hull until shield is at zero) would be better than now, disabling the standard hit effect when shields are active even better, applying the shield effect or a new one to the hull to represent shields hitted the best possible:)
Title: Shild for caps
Post by: gevatter Lars on September 06, 2002, 02:02:47 pm
Funy I have asked if someone could do that a long time ago, didn't know that the industrie allready uses this idea...
Beside that I have made a small pic site with 3 screenshots of the shield I have made for one of our ships.
Take a lool at:
Shield pics (http://gevatter_lars.tripod.com/shieldpics/index.html)
and also take a look at the CONTACT ME part of the page I have got a funy pic there.
The second page (Photo page/Picture1) dosn't work for some unknown reason, just ignor it.