Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: unsrm on June 14, 2020, 06:29:15 pm
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Hi all,
I seem to recall hearing that the Freespace IP was back in the hands of Interplay who will probably do nothing with it... I'm guessing that forum members have tried and failed to get hold of it?
If so what was the reason?
1. Interplay wouldn't sell
2. Too expensive?
I've played the game since I was 14 when it first came out and its the only game that I still keep coming back to 20+ years later. This is helped but the huge work of this community so massive kudos to you HLP designers and content creators.
I've been financially very lucky and would consider putting in a very serious bid for the IP so would love to know the latest from those on the forum 'in the know'.
Best,
Chris
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AFAIK FS IP is still worth 1mio$ or so, atleast it was way above anything somebody here could effort.
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Hi all,
I seem to recall hearing that the Freespace IP was back in the hands of Interplay who will probably do nothing with it... I'm guessing that forum members have tried and failed to get hold of it?
We did no such attempt, since the cost would very likely exceed the capabilities of any one member and very likely the amount we would be able to get through crowdfunding.
If so what was the reason?
1. Interplay wouldn't sell
2. Too expensive?
It's entirely 2. Interplay wants at least a million USD for it; or at least, that was the asking price back when they sold off a bunch of their IP 3 or 4 years ago.
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OK, so we know anybody who can find out out what the current price is or do I need my lawyer...
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You will definitely need a lawyer, preferably one that specializes in intellectual property law. Then, you and your lawyer need to contact the remains of Interplay and get into negotiations.
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Become a lawyer with international reputation, that should get you the required $~
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Let's not start another "why can't we just make FS3 as a community?" thread, because it would lead to the same conclusions. And those conclusions were very disappointing each time we get into this.
At some point I don't want to discourage you from your efforts, but... Even if you somehow manage to obtain the IP, what are you going to do with this?
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Speaking for myself only, the dream situation would be to release FS2 under a Creative Commons CC-BY-SA or CC-BY-SA-NC license, with the source code being relicensed under the BSD license (or a similar Open Source license that isn't GPL, but GPL compatible).
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That would be pretty much the ideal outcome.
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This is why I wanted to start this conversation
Speaking for myself only, the dream situation would be to release FS2 under a Creative Commons CC-BY-SA or CC-BY-SA-NC license, with the source code being relicensed under the BSD license (or a similar Open Source license that isn't GPL, but GPL compatible).
The source code is already released, what is it you feel can be gained from your suggestion here? I'm not being difficult, I genuinely don't know.
Let's not start another "why can't we just make FS3 as a community?" thread, because it would lead to the same conclusions. And those conclusions were very disappointing each time we get into this.
At some point I don't want to discourage you from your efforts, but... Even if you somehow manage to obtain the IP, what are you going to do with this?
A fair point, ideally I'd allow Volition (what remains of it) to create and new game and continue the story. To save me investigating EVERY FS3 thread, could you provide a synopsis of where they end up or go wrong?
Chris
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They planned a FS2 addon-pack about returning to Sol. For FS3 they tossed around the idea with going into offense against the Shivans; in the end both got killed so early on they never planned anything concrete.
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Yeah, that much I read, what about the creative commons thing you mentioned?
Chris
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Speaking for myself only, the dream situation would be to release FS2 under a Creative Commons CC-BY-SA or CC-BY-SA-NC license, with the source code being relicensed under the BSD license (or a similar Open Source license that isn't GPL, but GPL compatible).
The source code is already released, what is it you feel can be gained from your suggestion here? I'm not being difficult, I genuinely don't know.
The FS source code has never been released with a "standard" Open Source license. This means that some of the things we would very much like to do, i.e. release the engine as an official package for the various Linux distros, are very much impossible. It also narrows our options when integrating new software packages; for example, we are currently using the open-source ffmpeg library to do video playback - but since we're not licensed with a GPL-compatible license, some features of ffmpeg (like h264 support) are not usable for us.
A fair point, ideally I'd allow Volition (what remains of it) to create and new game and continue the story. To save me investigating EVERY FS3 thread, could you provide a synopsis of where they end up or go wrong?
It's very simple. If it isn't Volition, it isn't FS3; Turning FS3 into a community project is a recipe for disaster, as our community is built around heterogenuous storytelling where very different visions of how to tell stories in FS (and what stories to tell) are all equally valid.
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Well, in the unlikely event that I am successful then that can certainly be looked into, the FSO creativity is one of the reasons the game still thrives 20 years later.
On your point if its not V it ain't FS3, I agree. I've loved some of the' parallel universe' storytelling people have shown but it would be a political nightmare to do get the community to agree on a story.
A few things spring to mind:
1. Have we pushed the current engine as far as it will go, i.e. would a new engine be needed, possibly
2. If the story was written by Volition then maybe the community could create it under guidance, just an initial thought.
As has been said, better not to get people's hopes up too much, I have contacted my IP lawyer and the proposed sum is not impossible for me. This will not be a quick process though!
Does anybody senior on the forum have any contact with Volition do you know? Not much point in doing it if they aren't interested!
Chris
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My utopian dream with respect of the fanbase owning FreeSpace's IP is more of a philosophical one. The fact itself that, some two decades after the release of a game, its fans have done so much to keep it alive and end up "buying" it, has some sort of intrinsically beautiful meaning.
Except it won't be the fanbase as a whole owning it, but many members grouped in an association or foundation, depending on how the thing is meant to be handled.
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I would be absolutely stunned if Volition made FS3 as we imagine it. Space sims are a dead genre and getting a developer to spend time on a dead genre, even if the IP is free... even if the devs love the IP... is not a great business decision.
If they did anything with a freely given IP, and that's a big if... it would almost definitely not be a space sim. Not sure I want that.
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Hence my question if anyone on the forum has contact with V :)
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If they did anything with a freely given IP, and that's a big if... it would almost definitely not be a space sim. Not sure I want that.
FREESPACE: Brewery Tycoon
:lol:
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Hence my question if anyone on the forum has contact with V :)
I email with Jason Scott off and on.
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Excellent - I have messaged him on Linkedin but God knows I hate the platform, how would you consider best to proceed, General? All we need to really know is that if he and Volition have any interest in the IP as a Space Sim... if not then I'll stop wasting his and everyone else's time...
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Hence my question if anyone on the forum has contact with V :)
I email with Jason Scott off and on.
He wouldn't have accidently send you the FS3 plot, or?
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I don't think Volition is in a financial position to do anything except more Saints Row for now.
I posted my complete interview with Jason about a notional FS3 a long time ago.
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Well it can't hurt to ask can it? If we can get the IP maybe we can Kickstart the game or something if the desire is there!
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Well it can't hurt to ask can it? If we can get the IP maybe we can Kickstart the game or something if the desire is there!
Nobody will make a FS3, ever. Being able to distribute FS for free would probably be VERY best that could happen; and even that's more than unlikely.
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It would be better anyway to start up a new IP ...
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My question is a bit OT, but... how does the IP affect community work other than modpacks and campaigns? I can't write a book with FreeSpace as its title, that's rather obvious, but what if I set up a story in the FS universe, using names such as GTD Orion, SD Demon and so on? Is that allowed by the terms of the current IP status?
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Among the differences is the fact that you couldn't sell a product with those elements in because Interplay (who currently own the rights) could sue you for using their IP without permission. e.g. you make a campaign in Fred for free and that's fine as they have provided the tools, you try and sell that campaign and that's a no go. Hence my desire to get the IP, IF Volition had any interest in it after 20 years and judging by the responses already about Volitions financial position this seems unlikely.
Personally I love the Freespace IP as much as the Gameplay (won't be the same for everyone I'm sure) but I still want to see the story continue, in an age of remastered and rebooted games and in an age of crowdfunding such a thing is possible but only if V have any interest. Given how much it is suspected the IP would cost, there is no point in trying to buy it if we then can't do anything with it.
The chance of FS3 happening is very, very small but I have to be absolutely sure, hence my desire to talk to Volition...l
Chris
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Time was I'd have given anything for a :v: FS3, but at this point I'd be firmly against it.
It couldn't possibly live up to expectations. People have had over 20 years to come up with their own ideas of what it should be, it won't match them. I very much doubt I'd enjoy an FS3 as much as I enjoyed Sync, Transcend, Homesick, Derelict or Sol: A History, since I don't enjoy most new games as much as I enjoyed them.
We already know pretty much what was planned for it through the interview with Jason Scott. Anything on top of that is an original idea that's really no more of a valid conclusion to the events of FS2 than anything the community has come up with.
The reason the community has lasted as long as it has is the open-ended nature of FS2. There's so much of it that's left open in the story - what happens after Capella, what happens to the refugees, how does the GTVA hold together, what happens when Sol is brought back into the fold, what was Bosch's agenda. Those questions unlikely to be answered in a satisfactory manner, look at any TV show that's raised loads of mysteries, Lost for example, how many of them get answered and leave everyone happy? How many have people pissed off because their pet theory didn't come true?
More importantly, definitive answers to any of these questions, and presumably a definitive conclusion to the war with the Shivans, would greatly reduce the scope for what new campaigns can explore. Right now you can do anything and it's as valid a conclusion to the story as anything else.
Most importantly, if it came out I would absolutely have to play it despite all the stuff I've just said, and to do that I'd have to buy a gaming PC, which I cannot afford.
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A very interesting point of view and one I had not considered, I'll be honest. I'd always included the fan made campaigns as bloody brilliant as they are to be an 'alternative universe' in my mind and have always wanted to see through V's original vision for the story beyond the little snippets we have read about .
If the community doesn't want it then I can drop it, the last thing I would want to be another Derek Smart! I'll wait to hear what Scott says about chatting to Jason before making a final decision :)
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A very interesting point of view and one I had not considered, I'll be honest. I'd always included the fan made campaigns as bloody brilliant as they are to be an 'alternative universe' in my mind and have always wanted to see through V's original vision for the story beyond the little snippets we have read about .
Well to sum it up, there's probably no "original vision". FS1 was made. It's a rather generic story all things considered, yet it recieved a sequel. FS2 was written by somebody else. Ofc these people remained with :v-old: but it's not like there's a grand vision how stuff was supposed to be made from day 1.
For example, (it might be just hearsay) IceFire mentioned once that V had no idea how the supernova could be turned into a base for a meaningful story.
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Personally I love the Freespace IP as much as the Gameplay (won't be the same for everyone I'm sure)
Must be a typical lawyer thing ;)
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If the community doesn't want it then I can drop it, the last thing I would want to be another Derek Smart! I'll wait to hear what Scott says about chatting to Jason before making a final decision :)
I'm very interested in the community (or someone friendly to it) owning the IP for a whole lot of reasons. Nowhere near the top of that list is FS3, though.
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I would love to know your reasons please 😀
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-The license issues that The_E discussed could be resolved.
-The game could be made free and/or pay whatever you want and profits could go to HLP/Knossos hosting.
---Sub point, free games can easily turn into more players.
-Risk that Interplay gets DMCA happy, however unlikely, is removed.
-The community would have more of a say in how the game is installed by Steam/GOG --> reducing the friction of new players getting into the game.
-HLP can directly host the files as they can now be freely distributed. Want to play Freespace? Download right now, right here.
-The buzz in the gaming world of a modding community getting the IP of the game they mod would almost definitely bring in new players.
-New players == new creators. New creators == more content.
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I would love to know your reasons please 😀
There's an entire FreeSpace Wiki page which is literally full of concerns raised by the community over a hypothetical FreeSpace 3. (https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/FreeSpace_3)
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I never really understood **why** everyone always hated on an official FS3 as if it removes fan-made parallel universes. I mean, don't we have alternate histories of FS1 etc now as mods? I don't get it. It would only be a problem if asshats started "yeah well your story isn't canon now so you suck" flamewars, and I don't think they would be on this forum for very long if they did that.
Right? Summary: I don't get why parallel universes can't get along. They can even draw inspiration from each other. Just cause one is the official :v: storyline doesn't invalidate the rest of them. Cause they're ALL stories!! :lol:
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Intriguing. @unsrm, I've sent you a PM.
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I never really understood **why** everyone always hated on an official FS3 as if it removes fan-made parallel universes. I mean, don't we have alternate histories of FS1 etc now as mods? I don't get it. It would only be a problem if asshats started "yeah well your story isn't canon now so you suck" flamewars, and I don't think they would be on this forum for very long if they did that.
Right? Summary: I don't get why parallel universes can't get along. They can even draw inspiration from each other. Just cause one is the official :v: storyline doesn't invalidate the rest of them. Cause they're ALL stories!! :lol:
It doesn't invalidate them, but the ending of FS2 demands a conclusion or a continuation in a way that a definitive ending would not. It's that vacuum, that craving for a sequel, for more information, that gives so many people cause to write sequels and to play them.
If Freespace 3 came out and was generally accepted by the community would there be the same motivation to make or play a campaign on the premise of "What if FS3 didn't happen?"? I'm sure you'd get the odd one but I don't think there'd be anywhere near as much interest.
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What if FS3 is made and its engine isn't near as mod-able as the FSO engine? What does that do to the community?
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What if FS3 is made and its engine isn't near as mod-able as the FSO engine? What does that do to the community?
I dunno, it implies that it's just as good as 18 years of SCP work... I dunno how difficult it'd be to make a new FS game in a different engine (what seems to me the most likely thing), but it'd require an investment into a dead genre at first, so I wouldn't know what to expect. Unless HLP would get C&D (and a chunk of the potential playerbase p...sed off), it'd be still there.
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I tend to agree with jr2 in this case.
If Volition made FS3 I'd definitely play it and it wouldn't lessen my enjoyment of the mods out right now (I would also continue FS writing I'm working on for campaigns).
Also, if FS3 was announced by Volition tomorrow, I think a good chunk of the campaigns still under development right now would continue and it wouldn't stop people.
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I tend to agree with jr2 in this case.
If Volition made FS3 I'd definitely play it and it wouldn't lessen my enjoyment of the mods out right now (I would also continue FS writing I'm working on for campaigns).
Also, if FS3 was announced by Volition tomorrow, I think a good chunk of the campaigns still under development right now would continue and it wouldn't stop people.
Agreed, getting FS3 wouldn't negate other campaigns because each campaign is already someone's "headcanon" and we have dozens of those already. It's basically like having dozens of "Star Wars Legends" continuities, so how does having an "official" FS3 negate all of the other stories? It's just one more universe in an already heavily populated Freespace multiverse. :D
Not to mention that the Freespace modding community has come up with plenty of campaigns/stories using non-Freespace stories like Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, Solaris and many others. None of those would get negated by having FS3 either.
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I never really understood **why** everyone always hated on an official FS3 as if it removes fan-made parallel universes. I mean, don't we have alternate histories of FS1 etc now as mods? I don't get it. It would only be a problem if asshats started "yeah well your story isn't canon now so you suck" flamewars, and I don't think they would be on this forum for very long if they did that.
Right? Summary: I don't get why parallel universes can't get along. They can even draw inspiration from each other. Just cause one is the official :v: storyline doesn't invalidate the rest of them. Cause they're ALL stories!! :lol:
The one problem emerges from the canon, and resulting authorative, status of any retroactive change - or if a new game based on the Freespace IP is not a sequel but a prelude or intermediate chapter building to a proper sequel (i.e. a scenario set in the 2340s which establishes items to be expanded upon in further stories set 2370s and onwards) - think something like Halo: Reach.
*makes a literal handwave* ... butterfly effect from that.
EDIT: Cannot find the relevant post right now, but a few years ago I already said briefly made a chase why I am thinking that any possible FS3 would have to reach back on the timeline for narrative reasons. Having spend considerable time analysing the subtext and coding in FS1 and FS2, I think the case for that only get stronger the more dedicated you look at it - that's also why I think doing a new IP would be better, as at some point it would be simpler to build something new than having to correct and patch the old.
Secondly, with mods you have a much stronger tie with creator(s) - its a much more personal, less authorative touch. Plus, you can always look onto differences in focus between modders to divergence more paletable.
However, in my experience, not everyone who makes a headcanon about and IP that goes through the hands of multiple creators does appricate all the differences between creators - esspecially if they are subtextual; which leads to attempts by some to create a homogenous text of fanon when only compatible parts are on a textual level.
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I will always be disappointed at the level of which "canon" plays such a big role in people's heads in the ways they enjoy their stories. I've always imagined *all* of these stories as kind of versions of the same stories, campfire tales of things to come or that never happened, being free for everyone to retell and reinterpret. All the industries' brouhaha about creating "universes" and forcing certain "movies" to be within the same "universe" as "other movies" and so on seem to me so utterly annoying and baffling. It's so reductive. (Except when made in jest, like predator vs aliens, which is so over the top that it just becomes funny) I once hoped that the constant resetting of big movies like spiderman or batman would clean the heads of people of this notion, but nah, it's right here and it won't go away. Just ask the nerds in any star trek or star wars forum about "canon" and they'll go ballistic.
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I will always be disappointed at the level of which "canon" plays such a big role in people's heads in the ways they enjoy their stories. I've always imagined *all* of these stories as kind of versions of the same stories, campfire tales of things to come or that never happened, being free for everyone to retell and reinterpret. All the industries' brouhaha about creating "universes" and forcing certain "movies" to be within the same "universe" as "other movies" and so on seem to me so utterly annoying and baffling. It's so reductive. (Except when made in jest, like predator vs aliens, which is so over the top that it just becomes funny) I once hoped that the constant resetting of big movies like spiderman or batman would clean the heads of people of this notion, but nah, it's right here and it won't go away. Just ask the nerds in any star trek or star wars forum about "canon" and they'll go ballistic.
It comes down to a question how you were taught media literacy - not everyone gets a full comprehensive academic curiculum, and even not every idea is acknowledged or accepted on equal terms. Likewise, the notion that a work can be claimed from the author by the audience, i.e. its doesn't matter what X put in their thing it matters what you get out of thing for yourself, is not the forefront of everyones mind - esspecially if the montion of the "creative genius" exits in your mind as a wholly positive image of aspirational exceptionalism and/or individualism.
EDIT: ... and of course there is dynamics coming of commerical entites which sell fiction, treating the audience of said fiction as consumers, the internalisation of dissolution of the difference between audience and consumer/media consumption and commerical consumption .... *obligatory, bored Adorno-referrence*
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Just ask the nerds in any star trek or star wars forum about "canon" and they'll go ballistic.
Pretty much this. People hold varying value to the canonical nature of things in media, so any additions or change to the official canon will always upset some people, whether it's a reboot, sequel, prequel or interquel that pushes aside parts of a franchise's expanded universe canon or even fanon.
Personally, I agree with the sentiment that an official FS3 would *likely* be disappointing on some level - canonical concerns aside, be it story, gameplay or mission design, as we've had some inspiring fanworks (and original works!) being produced in this community.
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I see all fanmade sequels as somekind of alternate timeline-like stories. Mostly because official, canon FS3 storyline exist and always existed. In this regard, all fanmade continuations are effectively equal.
I don't fully believe Scott Jason saying "Beyond that, we didn’t really have anything concrete.". He revealed us as much, as the NDA allowed him to say. That's how corporation policy works. They still own the IP, so Interplay as every corporation jealously protects their properity. Even if they don't want to do anything with FS IP, it still works as "possible source of income". I remember fanmade EVE Online RTS project killed by official devs for the same reason.
Majority of devs have way more ideas, and sometimes even complete plans for all possible continuations including spin-offs, expansion packs and finally sequels. Nobody produce unfinished stories just because if one instantion generate satisfying income, production of the sequel is usually immediately launched. It happened for FS1. I believe that at least rough draft of the FS3 story exist.
If anybody acquire the IP, he would gain access to all docs :v: members produced during pre-production stage. Maybe even complete with concept art for possible ships and locations from cancelled FS3. Former :v: staff members are aware that we exist, and we would kill for access to official files. Looks like the interview suggest, that FS3 entered it's pre-production stage. It's exactly when concept arts and story drafts are being born. Staff members probably heavily briefed those ideas, when high call from Interplay appeared and killed whole project.
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Well Ace posted a whole bunch of ideas the devs apparently played around, but nothing what would be exatly a storyline.
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I don't fully believe Scott Jason saying "Beyond that, we didn’t really have anything concrete.". He revealed us as much, as the NDA allowed him to say. That's how corporation policy works. They still own the IP, so Interplay as every corporation jealously protects their properity. Even if they don't want to do anything with FS IP, it still works as "possible source of income". I remember fanmade EVE Online RTS project killed by official devs for the same reason.
I believe him. They were making FS2 at a rapid clip, any planning for FS3 was going to be pretty basic, especially in the absence of a confirmed deal to actually make that game happen (plus, remember that Volition was at that either already making Red Faction and Summoner or in preproduction for those games). That they didn't spend a whole lot of time on fleshing out a sequel to their last game made for Interplay is entirely believable.
CCP shutting down a fan game using their IP in a space they might want to explore is a whole different situation.
Majority of devs have way more ideas, and sometimes even complete plans for all possible continuations including spin-offs, expansion packs and finally sequels. Nobody produce unfinished stories just because if one instantion generate satisfying income, production of the sequel is usually immediately launched. It happened for FS1. I believe that at least rough draft of the FS3 story exist.
While that may be true, it may also be true that Jason Scott, as one of two writers credited for Summoner, was channeling his ideas into that new project rather than FS3.
If anybody acquire the IP, he would gain access to all docs :v: members produced during pre-production stage.
Assuming that those documents exist and assuming that they were shared with Interplay. Which may not be the case; It is entirely possible that in between Volition signing up with THQ and the final auction where Interplay purchased residual rights, these documents may have been lost (They would have been with Volition the entire time, not with Interplay).
Maybe even complete with concept art for possible ships and locations from cancelled FS3. Former :v: staff members are aware that we exist, and we would kill for access to official files. Looks like the interview suggest, that FS3 entered it's pre-production stage. It's exactly when concept arts and story drafts are being born. Staff members probably heavily briefed those ideas, when high call from Interplay appeared and killed whole project.
FS3 was never cancelled, as it was never greenlit to begin with. There was no formal preproduction stage for FS3, just individual devs talking about what they might want to do if they did get to make that project.
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I never really understood **why** everyone always hated on an official FS3 as if it removes fan-made parallel universes. I mean, don't we have alternate histories of FS1 etc now as mods? I don't get it. It would only be a problem if asshats started "yeah well your story isn't canon now so you suck" flamewars, and I don't think they would be on this forum for very long if they did that.
Right? Summary: I don't get why parallel universes can't get along. They can even draw inspiration from each other. Just cause one is the official :v: storyline doesn't invalidate the rest of them. Cause they're ALL stories!! :lol:
It doesn't invalidate them, but the ending of FS2 demands a conclusion or a continuation in a way that a definitive ending would not. It's that vacuum, that craving for a sequel, for more information, that gives so many people cause to write sequels and to play them.
If Freespace 3 came out and was generally accepted by the community would there be the same motivation to make or play a campaign on the premise of "What if FS3 didn't happen?"? I'm sure you'd get the odd one but I don't think there'd be anywhere near as much interest.
Then care must be taken to raise as many or more questions with the sequel than with FS2. Doable, I would think. Pretty sure :v: could pull that off.
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Writing stories in a way they turn into fanfiction-gold is probably the best way to have things alive at a point where other franchises would be long dead.
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As others have said, it would be cool, even if highly improbable, to get the Freespace IP, but the idea of FS3 would be at the bottom of the list of reasons. The platonic concept of 'FS3' is no longer achievable, and hasn't been for over a decade. The practical concept of a campaign set in the Freespace universe after Capella... is one that has already been explored in several ways. I am always happy to see more exploration of it, but it wouldn't be in my eyes any different in terms of 'authoritativeness' than its peers like BP or Inferno.
I don't particularly care about who owns the IP, I just like playing good campaigns. For a while :v: held the monopoly on that in most respects, but over time as the community has come into its own, it lost that advantage. I would absolutely say that the various mod campaigns have met or exceeded volition's standards. An '''''authoritative''''' FS3 (the ideal of which is inseparably tied to a high quality FS3) isn't nearly as highly desired as it used to be (in the sense that most players now will have more high quality freespace content than they know what to do with) and it's doubtful even that could even be produced at this stage.
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but the ending of FS2 demands a conclusion or a continuation in a way that a definitive ending would not. It's that vacuum, that craving for a sequel, for more information,
... what if that is the point? Maybe not the point :v-old: set out to make but the one it has become? -- There is a power in absence, one that can foster aspirations and curiosity, as you pointed out.
The open ending as a communicative device, from author/director to the audience, may be out of favour in games for reasons intrinsic to the medium (e.g. expected empowerment of the player vs the expected passivity of theatre/TV/movie audience) and reasons related to the cultural background of many creators of games (e.g. using the open ending as call to action was long been a staple of communist theories on the political use of art), but it is not an inherently bad proposition.
But I let me pose a question here: What is more important to the response - the motive or the execution? The why you desire to fill the void, or what you want the void to the be filled by?
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"If it ain't by :v: , it ain't FS3" is still true. However, I honestly doubt anything :v: makes could live up to some of the fan-made campaigns we have now. Gameplay-wise the level of FREDDing skill for the community has far surpassed anything you'd find in FS2, even if you're only considering retail SEXPs and not all the cool SCP ones.
This community has been learning over the last 20 years how to make space game campaigns, and specifically what works with Freespace. It's also been making those campaigns for other people that are really into space games and FS. Not to say that absolutely zero care was given to casuals but the primary audience are hardcore fans. Anything made by a real game developer would have to be aimed at a wider audience. There's a saying that you should never meet your heroes and I think something like that applies to FS3. It couldn't ever live up to community expectations.
The few modern space combat games are a decent example. Big open world space trucking sims aren't really comparable but you have things like Strike Suit Zero and House of the Dying Sun. Both are pretty good games but in terms of mission design FS mods have them handily beat. HotDS has a pretty cool drifty flight model(but FSO can do that too) and some pretty good missions with multiple things going on at once but nothing as "tight" as Battle of the Bulge from Nostos or as open as Acts of Volition from BtA. SSZ has some basic objectives to do but most of the gameplay boils down to "target closest hostile, kill it" much like retail FS2 often does.
For the engine you'd probably have to switch to UE4/UE5 or something of that type, a more modern engine that would in the end be far less moddable than what we have with FSO.
The biggest problem with a potential FS3 is that it would have to be compared to FSO and it would most likely be found wanting.
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Hey Folks!
My idea is if we could get the :v-old: crew back together in some form, pay them to just write the new FS3 storyline, I would be willing to fork up some funds to help that along depending on the cost. Say even crowd funding with the clear idea it's just for the storyline. After that, maybe even take it the next step. My reasoning is to just start with the storyline and see what happens.
Maybe :v-old: might like it enough to continue? Or if not, we here would have a storyline to follow and create something viable from that? I see many possibilities happening from this approach if it does indeed work out correctly.
Thoughts?
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Thoughts?
Good luck getting several million dollars for a spacesim after Star Citizen.
Also, don't be naive. Volition is a subsidiary of Deep Silver/Koch Media these days; they are not for hire, and any pitch for a project will have to be weighed against whatever they can do that isn't someone else's IP.
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From what I know some :v-old: members played some of the mods made here. However, none of them came up with a just inofficial FS3 plotline.
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Serious question: what would V do at this point that we couldn't? About the only thing I can think of is Jason Scott's specific voice in the prose.
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Serious question: what would V do at this point that we couldn't? About the only thing I can think of is Jason Scott's specific voice in the prose.
Have people on staff actually work full-time on this project and have actual management :P
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They could start a multi-million Dollar Kickstarter campaign about a spacesim where you're fighting an epic galactic war, traveling to the frontline to fight there, quickly hop on the marine unit to do FPS action against Shivans, all while at the same managing your own company, then return home to your apartment to sip some coffee and make sure your stress levels remain acceptable.. oh wait
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Whenever a sequel gets released to a series I like, I'm concerned it wouldn't be as good as previous entries. That'd being said, if Volition said they were making FS3, I would be at least cautiously optimistic and give it a chance.
The other thing people have mentioned here is "What if the community here got the rights to make FS3?"
I would definitely think FS3 would be technically possible to make...however that's not the main issue IMO. The issue is: could we even come to a consensus (even a simple majority) on what direction "our FS3" should/would take?
For example:
-"Transcend"...a lot of people love that campaign, but I can see a lot of people being upset if that's the direction FS3 would take since it doesn't feel like a normal FS campaign.
-A campaign like "Warzone" or "Inferno" or "The Aftermath: Reboot" might be the 'safest' route to take but there would be more than a few who would feel that it's not innovative enough and too 'explosion-y' and just like FS2 (some would say they want a 'normal' campaign but others would say future campaigns shouldn't be like retail FS2)
-As beloved as "Blue Planet" is, there would be some who wouldn't want that to be the direction FS3 should take (whether they think the Vishnan/Brahman/Shivan stuff is too 'out there' or they simply don't think the GTVA should be the antagonist in an official FS campaign)
FYI: I like the campaigns I've quoted. I'm just saying that, even if somehow HLP got FS rights, there would be disagreement on what route FS3 should take.
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Lots of great comments here, I understand these points of View. These conversations can all be picked up once there is something more detailed to report. I'm not ignoring anyone, I'm just working hard in the background for the time being 🙂
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The issue is: could we even come to a consensus (even a simple majority) on what direction "our FS3" should/would take?
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41zrw9-rTzL._AC_.jpg)
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But I already wrote an outline for FS3s plot :p
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But I already wrote an outline for FS3s plot :p
So did I!
(Well, it's not much of an outline, really, more of a germ of an idea that I'm hoping will inspire me to greatness...never mind, I'll let myself out.)
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The only Freespace 3 I accept is the one made by xX_LORD_ULTRA_DEATH_Xx. It is the pinnacle of high quality masterpiece writing, FREDding and beauty.
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Hah! Everyone knows the real freespace 3 is second Great War part 2
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Hah! Everyone knows the real freespace 3 is second Great War part 2
Approved~
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Hey, everyone knows that the real Freespace 3 is “Freespace 3: the search for bosh”!
:nervous:
*runs*
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Here, have some fact: SGWP2 > Trollfs3
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The Real Freespace 3 is the friends we made along the way.
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To keep beating the dead horse: the community is too big and has too many ideas to ever come up with an FS3 that's going to satisfy even a majority of the community. Even if :v: somehow was willing and able to work on FS3, it's a very different studio than it was 20 years ago even if it has a decent amount of the same staff.
But as people have already said, the best things that would come out of some community collective owning the rights is the very dusty and rusty axe hanging over the whole of HLP finally being taken down and the game becoming more accessible than it's ever been before. Also having the ability to kick Freespace into the public domain is a nice side benefit.
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I would imagine it is quite possible to have an FS3 that 95% of fans could at least grudgingly enjoy and not regret. Especially if it pulled an FS2 and didn't really answer anyone's questions about the Shivans.
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If someone bought the license What then how would you use it just to make freespace 2 free? or try to create a remake of freespace 1 and 2 using current technological advancements and then trying to sell and see if there is interest
for more and go from there?
Let's be realistic it's been over 20 years now i guess you could buy the FS license for a cheap price but then what.
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If someone bought the license What then how would you use it just to make freespace 2 free? or try to create a remake of freespace 1 and 2 using current technological advancements and then trying to sell and see if there is interest
for more and go from there?
Well people have been doing that already - FSPort, MVPs, STR; but also FS2Blue and some edited FS1 Trivial Psychic is working on.
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I would imagine it is quite possible to have an FS3 that 95% of fans could at least grudgingly enjoy and not regret. Especially if it pulled an FS2 and didn't really answer anyone's questions about the Shivans.
Partially, I disagree.
I think that a Volition FS3 could potentially be grudgingly accepted by at least a simple majority of us here and space sim fans in general.
However, while I don't think it would have to answer every question...I think some might be disappointed if FS3 wasn't at least a tad more conclusive than FS2. I don't think FS3 should just be a rehash of FS2's plot and I'd prefer it to be a little less open ended and actually solve something.
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FS2 initially retold the story of FS1 (big ship invades) before doing something different but it wasn't bad. Anyway :v-old: had probably a rather original (very basic) concept, one that's probably different from all FS fan campaigns ever made so I'm sure they could deliver something nobody really has thought about if they wanted to.
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The Real Freespace 3 is the friends we made along the way.
Big words for someone within shooting distance of Holley.
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Well, in the unlikely event that I am successful then that can certainly be looked into, the FSO creativity is one of the reasons the game still thrives 20 years later.
It's not unlikely, it's more like Hell freezing over or the 2nd Coming of Christ.
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I would imagine it is quite possible to have an FS3 that 95% of fans could at least grudgingly enjoy and not regret. Especially if it pulled an FS2 and didn't really answer anyone's questions about the Shivans.
Partially, I disagree.
I think that a Volition FS3 could potentially be grudgingly accepted by at least a simple majority of us here and space sim fans in general.
However, while I don't think it would have to answer every question...I think some might be disappointed if FS3 wasn't at least a tad more conclusive than FS2. I don't think FS3 should just be a rehash of FS2's plot and I'd prefer it to be a little less open ended and actually solve something.
Well that depends on what kind of FS3 we would get and the context all around its development. If the new owner of FreeSpace's IP eventually happens to have a specific plan to get an entire trilogy developed, or at least two more chapters, FS3 would definitely not lead the story to an end. We can't even exclude the possibility of FS3 diverging quite a bit from the space-sim genre. That's something we as a group of fans would not accept, but it's clearly meant to significantly expand the potential audience of one such sequel.
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I would expect full campaign mode to involve something more like an RPG mode between missions. The player would move through the ship, interacting with other pilots, playing card games in the pilots' ready room, trying to pick up deck hands at the bar, receiving briefings, and perhaps even finding traitors among the crew.
I'd also expect some micro-transactions (since that's more of a thing nowadays) giving you decals for your fighter, maybe requesting specific mechanics to maintain your ship, and once you get to wing-leader status, being able to recruit specific pilots to fly with you.
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Well that sounds like a mixture of WoD and SF Event Horizon.
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Hopefully that won't happen. RPG mode would be insanely expensive and balloon the scope tremendously. Maybe you'd get animated menus.
It would probably be a lot more like Override. Gameplay first, briefings are text with voice and some animations.
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Space sims with prominent RPG elements have been, uh, let's say, quite rare so far. The only example I can think of is Star Ixiom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Ixiom).
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Galaxy on Fire comes to mind but that's a mobile game so.... eh.
Oh, there's the X Series, I think there was also Wing Commander: Privateer.
And Star Citizen, when it releases in 2335 :p
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And Star Citizen, when it releases in 2335 :p
So SC is the reason the Shivans attack?
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Yes, the only reason they attack us are because they want to get refunds.
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Damn Croberts what will you unleash upon us
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goddamn, all that future death and destruction and near-genocide just over a video game?
Sounds like the plot of WarGames (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/WarGames). :p
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goddamn, all that future death and destruction and near-genocide just over a video game?
Sounds like the plot of WarGames (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/WarGames). :p
It's not that I didn't prophecised something like that: https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=90080.msg1874389#msg1874389
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If V did do a FS3 they would have to do something pretty damn special for it to be better than some of the campaigns you guys have made. When I played FS Port and FS Blue last year - after having played several of HLP's original campaigns - I was struck by just how short, simplistic (and dare I say it) a bit crap their missions were in comparison - even with the FSPort and FS Blue enhancement.
I would rate (at least) Nostos, BP and Scrolls as having more interesting mission designs tha retail FS1 or 2.
Modders have the advantage of not having deadlines, so they can make improvements over years - or in some cases decades. A notional retail FS3 would not have this luxury, which would restrict what they could do with it.
This is a problem the GSC Gameworld are facing with STALKER 2 - some of the megamods - such as Anomaly - are so bloody good and have so much new content in them that it will be difficult to top them. STALKER 2 will no doubt look better and have better physics (its running on UE4) but in other ways it may end up being inferior to what the community has made already.
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I always disliked FS1 mission design, but FS2 holds up well against most community made campaigns despite having a much simpler toolset.
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If we were the ones asking :v: to make content, we could tell them to take their time and do it right?
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Who's paying for them to take their time?
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I would certainly play FS3 if it came out, but don't particularly desire it anymore. I feel like the community has made FS3 already. There doesn't have to be a single, canonical plot, and many of the campaigns we have at this point rival commercial games in both the story and content. Any FS3 made by Volition today would be held to very different standards than the old games, and would have to be made on a tight budget. If they stick to the original FS gameplay and formula, it would be at best a good game, not an amazing one like FS2 was for its time. Think Strike Suit Zero or Overload. On the other hand, if they expand its scope a lot and try to make it like Star Citizen or something, it would divide the fanbase if it ever comes out at all. A lot of modern sequels to old games (especially the kickstarter funded ones) have been disappointing, even if they were made by the same developers.
As for the IP, the only thing that would be useful for is preventing frivolous lawsuits against HLP or campaign creators in the future. The cost of actually funding a game with it will be many times higher than the IP itself.
If V did do a FS3 they would have to do something pretty damn special for it to be better than some of the campaigns you guys have made. When I played FS Port and FS Blue last year - after having played several of HLP's original campaigns - I was struck by just how short, simplistic (and dare I say it) a bit crap their missions were in comparison - even with the FSPort and FS Blue enhancement.
I would rate (at least) Nostos, BP and Scrolls as having more interesting mission designs tha retail FS1 or 2.
The standards for missions and gameplay really changed a lot over the years. There was a time when all the Volition missions were considered the gold standard and something for mission designers to aspire to, but today a lot of them feel dated. The same applies to some of the older campaigns.
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Who's paying for them to take their time?
Kickstarter / IndieGoGo / GoFundMe / etc, if we set it up right. Would be a bit to set up I imagine but probably worth it if we got the rights. Just make sure something like FRED is included no matter what though.
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So in a way, one could say the real Freespace 3 were the friends we made along the way.
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So in a way, one could say the real Freespace 3 were the friends we made along the way.
Hey I already made that joke. :p
The Real Freespace 3 is the friends we made along the way.
Big words for someone within shooting distance of Holley.
Holley, get em! :snipe:
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She has been around only 2 or 3 times since she had that crazy incident with an internet weirdo though.