Hard Light Productions Forums
Site Management => Site Support / Feedback => Topic started by: Mobius on October 31, 2020, 04:26:10 pm
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I wonder if Discord moderation will be enforced somehow, because I've just learned of quite offensive statements and they passed almost unnoticed until someone brought them to the attention of whoever was following a particular channel.
(EDIT: for the record, this post, as well as most of the following posts in this thread, are the result of a split from What should HLP 2021 be? (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=97064.0). I did not create a new thread from scratch just to address the issue reported below.)
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If something came up, then please bring it to the attention of a Discord mod.
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Nightmare did it and one of the mods was "fine" with it, apparently.
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If something came up, then please bring it to the attention of a Discord mod.
Too bad the only Discord mod around at that time thinks that slurs are perfectly fine.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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That's so sad. Also, similar comments can be found by scrolling up in that channel, and they're not necessarily aimed at Lorric.
I see double standards here, because the very same comments - if posted on the forums - would result in serious backlash and drama. How come they're fine on Discord? Aren't HLP's boards and Discord channels part of the same, big family?
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Too bad the only Discord mod around at that time thinks that slurs are perfectly fine.
Neither "autistic" nor "autistic as ****" constitute a slur in this context.
There are very few things that will create a situation where I or other moderators will immediately bring the hammer down on someone. Outright spam. Complete bull**** like "the nazis were actually socialist!!!". Actual use of slurs, or use of innocuous words as slurs. This is not one of those.
As for "[The_E] thinks that slurs are fine": No, I do not. However, I am not the language police. I will not warn people off for using colorful language, so long as they do not cross the line.
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Too bad the only Discord mod around at that time thinks that slurs are perfectly fine.
I'm not seeing a slur. Perhaps you'd like to point it out?
Phantom Hoover said: i am well aware that lorric is autistic as f_uck and bullying him for the sake of it would be sh!tty and cruel (replaced i with ! to avoid forum censor)
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the forum censor can be turned off on the user side of things. No need to adjust for it.
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I don't feel like messing around with settings just to be edgier (or transport other people edgyness).
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As a non autistic person, it's not a word I would use in that context, but it's kind of up to autistic people to decide what they're comfortable calling each other. Queer people all each other "gay as ****" all the time, it's not a slur.
Also HLP isn't HLP discord, they're separate things.
There is, uh, something called 'concern trolling'.
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Too bad the only Discord mod around at that time thinks that slurs are perfectly fine.
I'm not seeing a slur. Perhaps you'd like to point it out?
Phantom Hoover said: i am well aware that lorric is autistic as f_uck and bullying him for the sake of it would be sh!tty and cruel (replaced i with ! to avoid forum censor)
That's it? I'm really getting the feeling that this is just your frustration with "people who start drama" bubbling over.
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I don't feel like messing around with settings just to be edgier (or transport other people edgyness).
but you don't need to do anything. People who don't want to see **** don't get to see it. people who do want to see **** get to see it. By bypassing the filter now, you actually are making things worse for the people who have enabled the filter! You are literally doing extra effort that serves to transport other people's edgyness.
(to clarify, the filter does not adjust the content of the actual posts in the database, they only alter how those posts show up for the individual user reading the forum based on whether or not they have the filter enabled).
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I don't feel like messing around with settings just to be edgier (or transport other people edgyness).
but you don't need to do anything. People who don't want to see **** don't get to see it. people who do want to see **** get to see it. By bypassing the filter now, you actually are making things worse for the people who have enabled the filter! You are literally doing extra effort that serves to transport other people's edgyness.
(to clarify, the filter does not adjust the content of the actual posts in the database, they only alter how those posts show up for the individual user reading the forum based on whether or not they have the filter enabled).
Ah, OK; didn't knew that.
Too bad the only Discord mod around at that time thinks that slurs are perfectly fine.
I'm not seeing a slur. Perhaps you'd like to point it out?
Phantom Hoover said: i am well aware that lorric is autistic as f_uck and bullying him for the sake of it would be sh!tty and cruel (replaced i with ! to avoid forum censor)
That's it? I'm really getting the feeling that this is just your frustration with "people who start drama" bubbling over.
Well you flat out admitted in the other thread that you only come to HLP for trolling so I don't think anybody needs to take you opinion serious.
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Well you flat out admitted in the other thread that you only come to HLP for trolling so I don't think anybody needs to take you opinion serious.
I don't ever recall saying this.
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Will you two idiots please stop questioning eachother's ulterior motives and give Phantom Hoover some time to speak for himself?
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Well you flat out admitted in the other thread that you only come to HLP for trolling so I don't think anybody needs to take you opinion serious.
I don't ever recall saying this.
The notion that the purpose of discussing something is to convince others you're right is a flawed one.
I don't argue with people in order to change their minds. I argue with them to see if they can change mine. A discussion can help me refine and strengthen my position. The purpose is self-development. I don't much care if the person I'm arguing with agrees with me in the end.
If you don't come to discuss you opinions but just slapfight you're a troll. You can do that literally everywhere else.
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If this is, indeed, the hurtful and out of line slur that you believe it to be, aren't there better ways to raise your concerns than posting screen caps of that slur in a thread where the subject of it is active and will most likely be reading it?
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If you don't come to discuss you opinions but just slapfight you're a troll. You can do that literally everywhere else.
Nightmare, talking to other people to see how they think and learn from it is the opposite of a slapfight. Discussions are not zero-sum games where one side has to convince the other to "win".
I argue with them to see if they can change mine.
That's literally the opposite of trolling! A troll isn't there to listen to people.
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Well you flat out admitted in the other thread that you only come to HLP for trolling so I don't think anybody needs to take you opinion serious.
I don't ever recall saying this.
The notion that the purpose of discussing something is to convince others you're right is a flawed one.
I don't argue with people in order to change their minds. I argue with them to see if they can change mine. A discussion can help me refine and strengthen my position. The purpose is self-development. I don't much care if the person I'm arguing with agrees with me in the end.
If you don't come to discuss you opinions but just slapfight you're a troll. You can do that literally everywhere else.
That's an absurd definition of trolling. Trolling is fundamentally a dishonest act only meant to rile people up. I make sincere attempts to engage, even when I know I'm not going to convince anyone, because I always try to remain open to being convinced myself.
Literally the opposite of trolling.
Will you two idiots please stop questioning eachother's ulterior motives and give Phantom Hoover some time to speak for himself?
Are we using up the finite amount of posts in the universe? Phantom can post whenever he likes. There's plenty of room.
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Will you two idiots please stop questioning eachother's ulterior motives and give Phantom Hoover some time to speak for himself?
Oh Jesus, are you trying to calm people down by offending them? Are they idiots to you? :confused:
If this is, indeed, the hurtful and out of line slur that you believe it to be, aren't there better ways to raise your concerns than posting screen caps of that slur in a thread where the subject of it is active and will most likely be reading it?
Hold on, are you somehow implying that it's okay to offend a member of the HLP boards on the HLP Discord, in case said member doesn't normally use Discord itself? Is that an out of sight, out of mind philosophy?
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Yes you are accelerating the heat death of the universe :P
(but also this is just stupid sniping at eachother that does nothing except increase the signal-to-noise ratio of these forum posts, and ironically create the very drama that people have seen enough of lately!)
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If this is, indeed, the hurtful and out of line slur that you believe it to be, aren't there better ways to raise your concerns than posting screen caps of that slur in a thread where the subject of it is active and will most likely be reading it?
Not everybody here is on Discord, still I think it's relevant to HLP.
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I did a fair bit of speaking for myself on the Discord but in the interest of forum observers who are confused and suspicious:
I know what I meant when I made that remark and I think it was 'morally' sound. At the same time, objectively, I can see that I was throwing around language too semantically close to 4chan edgelords in an already charged and fraught environment. That part was a mistake and one I don't particularly intend to make again. I would hope that outside observers have confidence in The E's judgement that it did not require censure, but I'm not going to put any effort into doubling down on a misunderstanding waiting to happen that I may have provoked.
Like Battuta I have reservations that this may just be an exercise in concern trolling.
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One thing to understand about moderation, any moderation: It depends a lot on context. We can not and do not want to create a fixed blacklist of terms and topics that will create an immediate call for moderator action.
In this particular case, I was the moderator "on call". I looked at the reported post, I looked at its context, and then used my knowledge of the people involved to determine if any intervention on my part was required. I didn't think that was the case; you, Nightmare, disagreed. As I said, you are free to do so, and maybe some other moderator will look at that stuff differently and come to a different conclusion.
As much as we may wish it, there is no definitive handbook for community moderation. All we can do is look at other communities and pick the parts that work and the parts that don't and see what we can do. I do not claim to be the ultimate authority on what constitutes good moderation; I am open to criticism and feedback on that topic.
That said, Nightmare, "You should no longer be Discord or forum if you consider this acceptable." is not what I would call useful as either criticism or feedback.
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Hold on, are you somehow implying that it's okay to offend a member of the HLP boards on the HLP Discord, in case said member doesn't normally use Discord itself? Is that an out of sight, out of mind philosophy?
No, any more than moderating is out of sight out of mind on it's own. I'm saying that if the words are offensive and shouldn't be allowed to be posted, because they are denigrating and hurtful to a person on the forum, then the ends of moderating those words are undermined by reposting them. If the motivation is compassion for Lorric , then waving around slurs directed at Lorric and demanding everyone look at them is not conducive to that motive. You could at least try to get in touch with other moderators first in other, less incendiary ways, before resorting to something like this.
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This thread is CringeTM and you people need to go have physical relations with people you know on a face to face basis, consensually of course.
There is a whole thread of another man's opinions you can fight about on freespace campaigns, this sort of **** is too stupid.
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I as a general rule would find it very difficult to talk about my own life on these forums or on the discord if autism itself was a banned word. It's literally a mental health diagnosis that applies to me, and I spent the last two and a half years in a mental health clinic having to deal with it. Autistic is a word that applies to me, is frequently used by mental health professionals when they are talking about me to me, etcetera.
I still think, Phantom Hoover, that it's rude to ascribe a mental health diagnosis to others. You are not a mental health professional, and if you were you'd be smart enough to know that you can't hand out that diagnosis over the internet.
but also seriously half the forum is autistic it's why we have so much drama arising out of social ineptitude
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That said, Nightmare, "You should no longer be Discord or forum if you consider this acceptable." is not what I would call useful as either criticism or feedback.
I said that about being moderator, what is an exclusive position. I did not ask you about anything besides that.
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This thread is CringeTM and you people need to go have physical relations with people you know on a face to face basis, consensually of course.
covid lockdown babyyyyyy
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I as a general rule would find it very difficult to talk about my own life on these forums or on the discord if autism itself was a banned word. It's literally a mental health diagnosis that applies to me, and I spent the last two and a half years in a mental health clinic having to deal with it.
I have a light case of asperger's, so yeah, nothing wrong with the word itself.
Don't get why people use it as an insult though, like the symptoms are rarely what the people who use it as an insult seem to think they are.
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I should probably make some sort of massive post about my mental health struggles simply becuase I think it's an issue worth talking about
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In regards to the non-discord moderation discussion going on here, would you please move that to a different thread?
I said that about being moderator, what is an exclusive position. I did not ask you about anything besides that.
No, you didn't ask me anything, initially. You called for a moderation response to something you thought crossed the line. I made a judgment call and said that it wasn't; you then said the above and proceeded to post the convo snippets in this thread.
This is your chance to act in a constructive manner by pointing out why, in your judgment, the statements you reported required moderator intervention, and why any disagreement with you on my part renders me, in your view, unfit to be a moderator either here or on discord.
You and Mobius wanted this situation treated seriously. So now here we are, treating it seriously.
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I also should talk about wanting to kiss men.
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You know, I'd actually go a step further and simply not offend other community members, just in case. It's an intrinsic rule of common sense. :rolleyes:
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honest question have you read anything i've said in here
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I did a fair bit of speaking for myself on the Discord but in the interest of forum observers who are confused and suspicious:
I know what I meant when I made that remark and I think it was 'morally' sound. At the same time, objectively, I can see that I was throwing around language too semantically close to 4chan edgelords in an already charged and fraught environment. That part was a mistake and one I don't particularly intend to make again. I would hope that outside observers have confidence in The E's judgement that it did not require censure, but I'm not going to put any effort into doubling down on a misunderstanding waiting to happen that I may have provoked.
Like Battuta I have reservations that this may just be an exercise in concern trolling.
+1 to what PH and Batts said.
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In regards to the non-discord moderation discussion going on here, would you please move that to a different thread?
I said that about being moderator, what is an exclusive position. I did not ask you about anything besides that.
No, you didn't ask me anything, initially. You called for a moderation response to something you thought crossed the line. I made a judgment call and said that it wasn't; you then said the above and proceeded to post the convo snippets in this thread.
This is your chance to act in a constructive manner by pointing out why, in your judgment, the statements you reported required moderator intervention, and why any disagreement with you on my part renders me, in your view, unfit to be a moderator either here or on discord.
You and Mobius wanted this situation treated seriously. So now here we are, treating it seriously.
How offensive and defarmating do I have to be that you think it is finally something that it requires your attention?
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Neither "autistic" nor "autistic as ****" constitute a slur in this context.
There are very few things that will create a situation where I or other moderators will immediately bring the hammer down on someone. Outright spam. Complete bull**** like "the nazis were actually socialist!!!". Actual use of slurs, or use of innocuous words as slurs. This is not one of those.
As for "[The_E] thinks that slurs are fine": No, I do not. However, I am not the language police. I will not warn people off for using colorful language, so long as they do not cross the line.
Actual slurs being things that imply an intent to hurt the party the slur is used against. In my judgment, PH did neither do nor intend to do so. Am I wrong?
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So some weirdo saying "the nazis were actually socialist!!!" is more offensive to you than somebody using severe diseases for personal attacks?
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This is amazing in all the wrong ways. A thing was said that offended someone. A mod decided it didn't require moderation. The offended got mad. The offender gave a sincere apology (take notes... those of you have a hard time with this) regarding it all despite not being moderated. Why the **** are you still bickering about it?
Go read a book.
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honest question have you read anything i've said in here
I did, and replied to you. I then stopped reading the following discussions because, IMO, they're light years away from the atmosphere we're trying to (re)establish on the forums. I don't think most of the recent toxic "debates" on the channel named hlp_squad actually represent this community.
In fact, I've just silenced the channel and I'll pretend it doesn't exist unless it's absolutely necessary (there are situations where that channel is useful). I can still read its content but at least I will not receive notifications unless I'm tagged.
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Do you have autism, nightmare?
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So some weirdo saying "the nazis were actually socialist!!!" is more offensive to you than somebody using severe diseases for personal attacks?
More immediately and clearly ban-worthy, certainly. Anyone trying to argue along those lines has left the path of reasonable discussion long ago and is likely out to troll, therefore consequences will happen faster.
And yes, on a personal level: ahistoric stupidity like that is more offensive to me than any slur anyone wants to throw my way.
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I always was under the impression that claiming the nazis to be left wing was simply a ploy for the far right to whitewash their particular ideology. Richard Spencer is a huge fan.
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Do you have autism, nightmare?
Do I need to have to to argue about it being an insult? Probably not.
So some weirdo saying "the nazis were actually socialist!!!" is more offensive to you than somebody using severe diseases for personal attacks?
More immediately and clearly ban-worthy, certainly. Anyone trying to argue along those lines has left the path of reasonable discussion long ago and is likely out to troll, therefore consequences will happen faster.
And yes, on a personal level: ahistoric stupidity like that is more offensive to me than any slur anyone wants to throw my way.
Well I think there's nothing to add about it.
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Do you have autism, nightmare?
Do I need to have to to argue about it being an insult? Probably not.
How do you suggest autistic people describe autistic people? You're telling a bunch of people with autism that they can't talk about autism.
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Like the thing you're calling a slur is an autistic person saying it's bad for him to make fun of another autistic person for social awkwardness, so he won't do it. That's...the opposite of an insult. It's an attempt to not be insulting.
You just leapt to conclusions.
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I always was under the impression that claiming the nazis to be left wing was simply a ploy for the far right to whitewash their particular ideology. Richard Spencer is a huge fan.
And you would be correct. I don't think The E has anything to apologize for by not being willing to entertain that kind of horse****.
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Do I need to have to to argue about it being an insult? Probably not.
If autism is an insult, I've been insulted by mental health professionals for the past 20 years.
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Like the thing you're calling a slur is an autistic person saying it's bad for him to make fun of another autistic person for social awkwardness, so he won't do it. That's...the opposite of an insult. It's an attempt to not be insulting.
GB stepping in with the words I should use.
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If anything, that channel seems to have calmed down. Nightmare has apparently solved the issue the unexpected way. Bravo. :)
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... What issue? He just started bickering on here rather then the discord, sidestepping the apology PH had made right there.
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Now, I will try to be calm and civilised here but I can't guarantee I'll be able to fully force myself to adhere to this, therefore I want to pre-emptively apologise to anyone I might end up accidentally attacking here.
Firstly, just like in the case of recent Goober related trashcan fire, the fact of the perpetrator apologising (yes I KNOW) won't magically undo an underlying issue with the moderation.
Secondly, while I also have my own personal gripes with The E (mostly on political grounds, and yes, I'm trying to distance myself from these as much as I can), I just need to ask everyone (including The E himself): do you think The E's moderation standards have changed over the course of the last couple years?
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For the love of all that's ****ing holy, can you guys all calm down for five goddamn minutes before I quite seriously round up the remaining moderators and admins and get group consensus to put everyone in time out for a week? I mean, it works with my kids, and you guys are behaving as such.
Enough with the concern trolling. PH is a member of the marginalized group, clarified what he meant in real time, and while I (and the other moderators) don't necessarily condone the initial phrasing it's nothing to action right now. I swear, I've been hanging around here for nearly 15 years and some of you who are grown-ass adults are behaving like pre-teens. Cut the **** out, all of you.
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Hi, Other Mod here as requested. I'm not a Discord mod, so it's not my place to say how things should be handled there. Personally speaking I'm not exactly comfortable with that term being used in that way, given the frequent cruel intentions behind it...but at the same time I am not autistic myself, and I don't feel qualified to tell someone who is how that term should be used. Just in this thread we have two members on the autism spectrum who have differing opinions about its use--and that's a good thing, because those are discussions worth having!--so it's clearly not a black-and-white issue. I don't think PhantomHoover meant the term in a patently-offensive manner, and he's already apologized for its use and said he won't do so in the future, so from where I'm sitting I don't see any further action as being necessary.
Edit: Ryan snuck this in before me, so also what he said...somewhat more colorfully. :p
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For the love of all that's ****ing holy, can you guys all calm down for five goddamn minutes before I quite seriously round up the remaining moderators and admins and get group consensus to put everyone in time out for a week? I mean, it works with my kids, and you guys are behaving as such.
Enough with the concern trolling. PH is a member of the marginalized group, clarified what he meant in real time, and while I (and the other moderators) don't necessarily condone the initial phrasing it's nothing to action right now. I swear, I've been hanging around here for nearly 15 years and some of you who are grown-ass adults are behaving like pre-teens. Cut the **** out, all of you.
I know I've been suspicious doing this for the sake of causing more drama. However, I did not ping The E to check "hmmm, lets see if he does what I want". I pinged @Moderator. I wasn't obviously the first person to disagree with this kind of moderation as it is not my thread.
In particular disappointent of you, MP-Ryan. During the slapfight before Goober got de-admined I called the entire HLP staff "retarded"; you responded by PMing me on the forum, despite me insulting you too you only informed me (I wasn't really aware of that, I thought it was just another insult) that it would make feel people with handicaps (which are among the community) feel bad. I edited my post accordingly myself and you seemed pretty fine with that. Apparently you quitted that stance.
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What is your problem with autistic people saying it's wrong to make fun of other autistic people for being socially awkward? What about that do you find offensive?
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Also I hope you've registered that two HLP mods have told you to drop it.
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There's a pretty significant contextual difference between someone throwing out a term like 'retarded' as a synonym for 'bad/'ridiculous'/etc (whether intended as a pejorative or not) in the fairly permanent text of the forum versus a transient post by a member of a [marginalized] group who rapidly clarified he was not insulting the autistic community (of which he is a part).
Context is important. Like I said, I don't love the way it was used but it's nothing worthy of a formal moderation action (which I incidentally can't do on Discord because I'm not a moderator there!) and it's definitely not worthy of three pages and counting of posts in Site Support. You'll note you didn't actually receive a formal warning either, but rather a simple request to edit with no other harm done or judgement cast.
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In particular disappointent of you, MP-Ryan. During the slapfight before Goober got de-admined I called the entire HLP staff "retarded";
Well there's your problem. Redarded and autistic aren't the same words.
Autism spectrum disorder is used in the mental health practice today: It's the accurate diagnosis as of DSMV, now called Autism Spectrum Disorder as a catch-all term for what we previously called Autistic disorder, aspergers and PDD-NOS. It turns out that these diagnosis were vague and overlapping before, so it got simplified. And although language in psychology changes, I suspect autism as a term is here to stay: Effort has instead been put into making people understand the multi-faceted aspects of autism more. Autistic people refer to themselves as autists all the time, and often consider it a point of pride. Several members of this forum and of the discord have autism, and iirc even people in higher positions of power.
Retarded doesn't really have the same connotations. It flatly used to refer to people with an IQ below 70 who couldn't function normal in society. Before autism was recognized as a seperate thing, autistic people were just treated as "retarded". It's in part why the term "high-functioning autism" used to exist (high-functioning refers to having an IQ above 70) before the term was entirely decoupled from any level of intelligence. Retarded as a term has been entirely phased out.
Don't even get me started on Max Verstappen calling one of his fellow drivers a "mongol" a week ago, if you want the perfect intersection between ableism and terms that were considered racist even in the 60s.
In summerary: These words are not equivalent becuase autism as a term is part of the current track of increased understanding and empathy in mental health care. Retarded is from a previous, more cruel era.
I realize I'm operating on a hunch now here, but Nightmare, if you say that you didn't know how offensive retarded was as a term until it was pointed out to you, chances are that you might also be ignorant about other terms. I very much doubt that MP-Ryan has walked away from other stances, he's just more knowledgable then you about the language that's used wrt mental health.
Also autism speaks is a terrible organization and should be destroyed.
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Three full pages of philosophical apologetics on the meaning behind that definition and its supposed implications in the modern world, yet people are still missing the main point I was trying to make before the thread got split: there are offenses written on that Discord channel which pass(ed) unnoticed. And I'm talking about pure offenses, words with little-to-no room for interpretations implying otherwise.
Use the Discord search function and look for yourselves.
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Secondly, while I also have my own personal gripes with The E (mostly on political grounds, and yes, I'm trying to distance myself from these as much as I can), I just need to ask everyone (including The E himself): do you think The E's moderation standards have changed over the course of the last couple years?
They absolutely have. I used to be much more willing to engage in "tone policing": trying to get people to stop saying the ****ing bad words. I stepped away from that because a) I do, on occasion, engage in some bloody profanity, and b) because someone using swear words isn't nearly as detrimental to good discussion culture as passive-aggressive sniping, endlessly dragged out grudges, JAQing off (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions) or any number of rhetorical techniques that maintain a veneer of respectability to hide a core of toxicity are.
Now, I do not intend to claim that my record is spotless in this regard: I have, absolutely, engaged in all of these behaviours at one time or another. I do not claim to be free of sin and trust others to tell me when I step over the line.
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Three full pages of philosophical apologetics on the meaning behind that definition and its supposed implications in the modern world, yet people are still missing the main point I was trying to make before the thread got split: there are offenses written on that Discord channel which pass(ed) unnoticed. And I'm talking about pure offenses, words with little-to-no room for interpretations implying otherwise.
Use the Discord search function and look for yourselves.
Then why didn't you bring these to our attention when you saw these things happen?
Discord, it has to be reiterated, is a real-time medium. We (speaking for the moderation staff) cannot be present in all channels at all times; frankly, if we had to, we might as well close the server again because it clearly has failed and the people in it cannot be allowed to be in a room together. Sometimes we are present. Sometimes we can act in a timely manner and deescalate before things spiral too far out of control. At other times, we can't, for a multitude of reasons; We do rely on people to call us when they see something happen that they are not comfortable with.
What does that mean? Well, for one, it means that sometimes things may fall under the table. It also means that sometimes, the discussion in a channel has moved so far away from the initial point of contention that to come in hours or days after the fact is not workable.
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It's always interesting to see what certain people have to say about me when they think I'm not going to find out.
You'd be surprised how often I do.
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I think in general that this whole thing exacerbates an issue that's been here for a while, which is Lorric's continuous mode of behaviour that hovers between obnoxiousness and outright toxicity and the expectation that the rest of the community just ignores it whilst the moderation has given up on it as a lost cause. Lorric has been involved with moderation for basically as long as I can remember, and he's shown an inability or unwillingness to learn or even to just listen. Exasperation at Lorric's continued personal/political crusades is simply going to continue until Lorric matures, which is unlikely to happen since Lorric's mode of behaviour hasn't meaningfully changed since those first forum posts 10 years ago.
I know that this is a well-known issue amongst moderation but we're going to see fallout of allowing this situation to continue to fester for a while. Lorric hadn't visited these forums until a month or two ago where he necro'd a few months old thread to re-invigorate a long standing grudge against The_E. I did critique Phantom for venting his frustrations with Lorric in the hlp_squad channel, but in hindsight I can't reasonably expect everyone to be shining rays of happiness and friendliness in the face of someone who develops grudges that last several years because of what he was told on an internet forum about freespace modding.
Ironically I'd be willing to give Lorric more room if he had autism, but afaik he's perfectly neurotypical and has no excuse. And even then, although I would give him more room, it would still be significantly less then what he has been given over these past years.
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Wow, they've really got to you, -Joshua-.
The past is too bound up in a discussion on the future for it not to come up. The past is precisely why the discussion is happening. I remember it, but it's not a grudge in the sense that I want to harm those who have harmed me. I don't.
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I had an absolute tyrade of a post prepared, with recounting of many moderating actions taking place on the Discord, screenshots of messages, "mini-interviews" with witnesses and people who got smacked for something, blackjack and hookers. Decided to scrap it entirely because all that drama is tiring and undermining the community as a whole. I'm just going to take to PMs later on when I have the will to do so.
In the meanwhile, recently there were several great suggestions regarding the Discord server's organisation posted in #hlp-squad channel, that were quickly swarmed and pushed into the backlog by other messages related to the happenings on the forum. I have pinged the administrator to give him an anchor of sorts to navigate to the important suggestions, but it seems like it's going to take him quite a while to be able to read and respond to the suggestions.
Given that Discord is continuously gaining traction as a discussion medium, could we perhaps salvage this topic or create a new one that we could use as an organised, persistent medium of sharing and discussing (technical only) suggestions about the server?
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Sounds like discord might be worse than the forums...
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/a6f05818ce6078b0e5060d929125a0fe/tenor.gif?itemid=18114219)
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Is there an argument you want to make, Nightmare, or are you just ****posting in a drama topic to further the drama?
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No it was just a summary of what happened, I won't waste my time posting here again.
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Sounds like discord might be worse than the forums...
I am confident. I believe this chaos is temporary, and we'll get back to a form of sub-normality very soon (Discord included).
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Wow, they've really got to you, -Joshua-.
That you think that there's a "They" here, rather then just an individual observation I've made based on your behaviour, is part of the reason why this is dragging on so long. You'd rather blame 'them' then investigate your personal failings.
No it was just a summary of what happened
Bold thing to say from someone who has decided to ignore all calm, well-reasoned posts from literally everyone in here.
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Nightmare, please calm the **** down.
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Given that the original matter has been resolved, I don't think it's productive to leave the thread open.