Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: vadar_1 on September 03, 2002, 01:35:06 am
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Take into consideration the following:
- Convenience - Are special devices/naturally occurring phenomenon required to travel long-distances?
- Speed - How fast does it take to get from point A to B within the system? From system to system
- Efficiency - How long can this travel be maintained before cooling down/refueling. How long is the cooling delay between start and stop?
- Versatility - How easy is it to gain the device to use the method of transportation? What type of units/entities can use this device (ship size for example).
- Reliability - How much does the technology to create the method of travel break down?
Edit: I forgot slipstream... but o well.
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WARP :
Originally posted by vadar_1
- Convenience - Are special devices/naturally occurring phenomenon required to travel long-distances?
Warp Drive + Warp coils
- Speed - How fast does it take to get from point A to B within the system? From system to system
Lightspeeds
- Efficiency - How long can this travel be maintained before cooling down/refueling. How long is the cooling delay between start and stop?
Weeks, warp coils replenishes itself and the Dilithium crystal lasts months.
- Versatility - How easy is it to gain the device to use the method of transportation? What type of units/entities can use this device (ship size for example).
Even shuttles although not warp 9 and shorter distances.
- Reliability - How much does the technology to create the method of travel break down?
Eeerrrr.... What?
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WORMHOLE B5 :
Originally posted by vadar_1
- Convenience - Are special devices/naturally occurring phenomenon required to travel long-distances?
Jump drives and jump points. Thus one can only jump at certain points wich is not very good if you want to escape quickly
- Speed - How fast does it take to get from point A to B within the system? From system to system
Normal speed - different dimension
- Efficiency - How long can this travel be maintained before cooling down/refueling. How long is the cooling delay between start and stop?
Dunno really
- Versatility - How easy is it to gain the device to use the method of transportation? What type of units/entities can use this device (ship size for example).
Even shuttles/fighters
- Reliability - How much does the technology to create the method of travel break down?
Eeerrrr.... What?
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Stargate
Originally posted by vadar_1
- Convenience - Are special devices/naturally occurring phenomenon required to travel long-distances?
Stargate... DOH!
- Speed - How fast does it take to get from point A to B within the system? From system to system
VERY FAST
- Efficiency - How long can this travel be maintained before cooling down/refueling. How long is the cooling delay between start and stop?
No fuel needed just power
- Versatility - How easy is it to gain the device to use the method of transportation? What type of units/entities can use this device (ship size for example).
Only ppl and smaller devices (Maybe small (VERY) fighters)
- Reliability - How much does the technology to create the method of travel break down?
Eeerrrr.... What?
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Subspace
Originally posted by vadar_1
- Convenience - Are special devices/naturally occurring phenomenon required to travel long-distances?
Jump drives and jump points. Thus one can only jump at certain points wich is not very good if you want to escape quickly
- Speed - How fast does it take to get from point A to B within the system? From system to system
10-20 minutes
- Efficiency - How long can this travel be maintained before cooling down/refueling. How long is the cooling delay between start and stop?
Unknown since longest travel is about 20 minutes.
- Versatility - How easy is it to gain the device to use the method of transportation? What type of units/entities can use this device (ship size for example).
Almost all vessels can mount jumpdrives.
- Reliability - How much does the technology to create the method of travel break down?
Eeerrrr.... What?
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SW and spaceballs I do not know...
So I vote Warp for it has little drawbacks.
PS : Don't go ST bashing. I don't like it either but its what I think.
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Reliability was poorly worded. Basically how reliable is the 'drive'. In star trek that damn warp reactor breaks down alot, same with hyperspace drives. The stargate on the otherhand... never seems to break.
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Originally posted by vadar_1
Reliability was poorly worded. Basically how reliable is the 'drive'. In star trek that damn warp reactor breaks down alot, same with hyperspace drives. The stargate on the otherhand... never seems to break.
Stargate overheats.. :doubt:
The reactors don't break down THAT often. In FS I had to disable ships with one damn fighter.... In ST that doesn't happen. :p
But I like most that you can go in ANY direction possible unlike Subspace/hyperspace/stargate etc.:
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Bollocks to this - the Tardis owns all your petty travel.
That or Q travel, instant teleportation of another and anything to anywhere at any point in time.
Handy.
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Originally posted by Thunder
Bollocks to this - the Tardis owns all your petty travel.
That or Q travel, instant teleportation of another and anything to anywhere at any point in time.
Handy.
Well jeez, I had to set up some competition. Like Phasing, time-portals, **** like that. All wouldn't stand up to be much of a match to say, 'warp'.
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Q, the arrogant bastard, RULEZ! :D:D:D:D
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Wormholes. 'Cos they're real and all, even if they don't look like that B5 ****.
I thought Capsule Drive was pretty cool, too- nothing like traveling thousands of light-years to slam into a megafreighter carrying industrial sewage.:D
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Cause Q even said he couldn't mess with it and it took him to a place HE never could go on his own :lol:
Actually the Q-Continuim OWNZ all (problem is you need the power of Q)... Second place TARDIS... Third choice Warp (no specific locations needed to go to warp) sorry...
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Culture drives rule.
Anything that can go from cruise of probably about 150,000 times lightspeed to an overclock of 743 TRILLION times lightspeed has got to kick ass.
Granted, most of us acknowledge that Banks probably didn't mean to have the Killing Time go that fast and just fudged the numbers.
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What about that cool elevator-type travel thingy from that ordinary movie SuperNova?
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Best engine type of today :
Scramjet (supersonic combusting ramjet) - When the air inside a ramjet exceeds the speed of sound (meaning an aircraft speed of around Mach 5+) combustion fails to occur properly. This is overcome in a scramjet: the inlet is much wider (typically the entire underside of the craft) so the compression is less and the air remains at supersonic speeds. But conventional fuels are unusable at these speeds, so reactive chemicals or gases are used and the design of the jet is much more complex. Like a ramjet the scramjet must already be moving extremely fast before it will start working but, theoretically, speeds in excess of Mach 20 are possible.
Mach 20 = nice :D
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Originally posted by Shrike
Culture drives rule.
Anything that can go from cruise of probably about 150,000 times lightspeed to an overclock of 743 TRILLION times lightspeed has got to kick ass.
Granted, most of us acknowledge that Banks probably didn't mean to have the Killing Time go that fast and just fudged the numbers.
The smarty pants nuclear physicist just got on the scene. Very good idea Shrike (sarcastic tone) but by the time I get back to Earth, it will probaby not be there because I traveled faster than light which means that probably some 300 trillion years will pass on Earth when I come back. Wow! Let's fly into the future. There ya go. Time travel.
Your efforts are all in vain. Teleport is A1 SUPAR.
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Gauss teleporter. Go 40K!
And what about Bistromath?
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Quantum Entaglement state teleportation.
Of course you destroy what you want to transmit at lightspeed by scanning it and you can only use the portal a set number of times....
On the other hand, Subspace/FS style transport has a plausable aspect to it.
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Originally posted by Razor
The smarty pants nuclear physicist just got on the scene. Very good idea Shrike (sarcastic tone) but by the time I get back to Earth, it will probaby not be there because I traveled faster than light which means that probably some 300 trillion years will pass on Earth when I come back. Wow! Let's fly into the future. There ya go. Time travel.
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Um, yeah.
Was that supposed to make sense?
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It makes sense, it's the whole "time slows down as you approach the speed of light" deal, and by going that much faster than light what he said happens...
I think :)
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Warp travel fixes that problem, because its not you travelling at light speed. :D Still i like Hyperspace becuase its B5 and cool.
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Correction : Warp 0.1 till 9.9 is sublight speed.
Warp 10 = Speed of light
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I voted B5 type of travel.
Convenience: Jump engine and Jumpgates. Jumpgates are for ships that havent got enough energie output to open a jumppoint. Or to save energy if ships go into battle.
Speed: Scale in Hyperspace varies dramatically, depending upon the destination and rout taken, due to gravitational spikes, eddies and the fact that Real Space does not have a one-to-one ratio in Hyperspace. Babylon 5, for example, is 10.67 light-years from Earth (100.9 billion kilometers), and the direct travel time is about three days. This means, relatively speaking, a ship would be traveling 389,455,000 kilometers a second relative to Real Space.
Below are some pictures about distance and speed.
(http://www.b5tech.com/misctech/engines/hyperdrive/1.jpg)
1.The universe is like a giant ball. Everything we know of the universe, or REAL SPACE is on the outside of the ball, i.e. the matter thrown out by the Big Bang, at the center of the universe. There are many dimensions to space, only four of which we are aware of (height, width, depth, and space/time). Hyperspace is another dimension, probably the left over space from the Big Bang, where time and space do not exist as we know it (if at all).
Pic 2:
(http://www.b5tech.com/misctech/engines/hyperdrive/2.jpg)
As you can see in the illustration, if a ship wants to travel from point "A" to point "B", it would have to travel a fantastic distance along the outside of the ball. To shorten the distance that needs to be traveled, a ship can instead enter Hyperspace and use it as a shortcut.
Pic3:
(http://www.b5tech.com/misctech/engines/hyperdrive/3.jpg)
As you can see, a ship can move into Hyperspace and travel to another point in Hyperspace relative to their destination, but the distance is significantly shorter because in Hyperspace the distance traveled is mapped into a smaller area. When the ship comes out of Hyperspace it will be at it's destination, but only at a fraction of the time it would have taken to travel the same relative distance in Real Space. This follows Einstein's theory of relativity.
The deeper you go into Hyperspace, the relative distance that needs to be traversed to reach your destination becomes smaller, thus getting you to where you would like to be, faster. There is a problem however, and that is the Big Bang. The mass and gravity of the Big Bang still exist and objects in real space also cast a gravity echo into Hyperspace, which can be significantly amplified given that the area a star's gravity will effect in Hyperspace will be significantly larger in the smaller dimensional plane of Hyperspace. Thus, while in Hyperspace, a ship must maintain constant thrust, or it will be lost in the massive gravity spikes and eddies. Traveling too deep into Hyperspace COULD result in a vessel not being able to get back out of Hyperspace, trapping a ship there forever.
Scale in Hyperspace varies dramatically, depending upon the destination and rout taken, due to gravitational spikes, eddies and the fact that Real Space does not have a one-to-one ratio in Hyperspace. Babylon 5, for example, is 10.67 light-years from Earth (100.9 billion kilometers), and the direct travel time is about three days. This means, relatively speaking, a ship would be traveling 389,455,000 kilometers a second relative to Real Space.
By way of comparison Centauri Prime is 75 light-years (709.6 billion kilometers) from Babylon 5 and it takes about six days to get there. That means the same ship would be traveling 1,368,750,000 kilometers a second.
This means that ships capable of accelerating at between 1 and 12 G-forces, via the use of Hyperspace, can travel between 1299 and 4565 times the speed of light, and faster. Advanced ships, like the Whitestars, can travel between SOL and Babylon 5 is just a few hours, suggesting that advanced ships using gravimetric drives can travel at 30,000 and 220,000 times the speed of light, via Hyperspace.
If you are looking for a ratio however, a journey from Babylon 5 to SOL would be a ratio of 259,200 kilometers to every one kilometer in real space. A journey from Babylon 5 to Centauri Prime would be 518,400 kilometers for every one kilometer in real space. So your average, is probably anywhere between 100,000 to one, and 600,000 to one.
Efficiency:
class: Whitestar
type: Monitor
length: 475.6 meters
mass: 6.8 million metric tons
crew: 38
troop: 60
fighter: 4 Nial Heavy Fighters
power: Quantum Gravitic Reactor
3 Fusion Reactors
duration: 5 Years [?]
weapon: 1 Quantum-Gravitic Discharge Beam Cannon
2 Pulsed Neutron Cannon
4 Pulsed Fusion Cannons
defense: 1.8 meter re-enforced Vorlon Bio-Armored hull
Gravitic Tractor Beams
Vorlon Shields
Minbari Stealth Device
A normal Whitestar is vited whit a Quantum/Gravimetric orlon Quantum/Gravimetric reactor whit a evarage output of 2.6 Exawatts. So it can do around 5 independed jumps.
The recharge time of the engine depends on the powerout put of the vessel. Like EA vessels take longer to recharge there jump engines than a Whitestar.
In short the more output teh reactor has the faster it recharges the jump drive. More i couldn't find.
Traveling via Hyperspace, the Whitestar could quite literally cross the Milky Way Galaxy (100,000 light years) in roughly seven weeks.
Versatility:
All ships above fighter class and transport class have a jumpengine. The smallest ship that can make 6 independend jumps is the BlueStar. It is 60 meters long.
Most EA, Narn, And Centauri republic ships need be around 500 meters long to be able to create there own jump point.
As for ships that arent jump capable, they use the jumpgates to open a jump point.
New jumpgates can be build and be added to the Hyperspace beacon network.
Reliability:
Not much know about so i can't realy awnser is.
In most cases if the reactor fails you can't jump.
This is my longest post ever:D
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Originally posted by Shrike
Culture drives rule.
Anything that can go from cruise of probably about 150,000 times lightspeed to an overclock of 743 TRILLION times lightspeed has got to kick ass.
Granted, most of us acknowledge that Banks probably didn't mean to have the Killing Time go that fast and just fudged the numbers.
Indeed. That, or farcasters (damn you, Shrike, for pointing me to the Hyperion books and not warning me that the first one ended like that! :D) - you just have to get a ship there first, and you're done.
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I don't believe in the subspace or the Babylon 5 method of travellling. Its unrealistic. Its intersting but not realistic.
I think hyperspace (Star Wars) or warp (Star Trek) are the best sci-fi method of travel but a slight modification needs to be done to this method that sci-fi writers forgot to add in.
In a single galaxy, there could be trillions and trillions of systems since there are so many stars. Each and every system may not be aligned horizontal or vertical as the other system. Therefore, you cannot simply just jump to a planet in a system from where ever you are in a system.
The navigator would need to make a short jump out of the system, make more calculations to the outer edge of the detination system then make the jump to hyperspace. When the ship arrives at the outer edge of the system, another short jump needs to be made into the system to whatever planet.
But this would mean that lanes or routes need to be specified for all ships to follow or risk crashing into other ships or space objects like asteroids or even a planet!
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Hmm, hard, good, and interesting thread. :nod: I was going to vote for warp, but I haven't watched ST so I don't know, good that Tiara told how it is.
I wonder... stargate is good, but it needs two gates. Subspace is pretty good, as you can do inter and intrasystem travel. I don't know too much about SW travelling system (though I have watched all episodes except 3 of course), but it seems to be malfunctioning a lot. Babylon 5 travelling system is also pretty good, but I'll give my vote to subspace.
Edit: No idea about Spaceballs.
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I disagree, hyperspace (SW/ST) is a rediculous idea.
There's alot of junk out there....
A Zero Time Spacial Translation would be the only feasable method of getting anywhere.
Subspace is maybe an idealised version of it but it holds certain feasable aspects. Either way, I cant be bothered to argue my point cuz im too hungry.
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I've always been partial to the hyperspace travel from the Foundation series. A somewhat gut-wrenching, virtually instantaneous jump from one point to the other; the ship can jump as far as it has the power to, then jump again in short order (again depending on power available).
On the downside, it requires extremely precise calculations, lest you end up running into a big rock at the other end.
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Ludicrous speed!! GO!!
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Damn, I hadn't noticed one of the options was from Spaceballs!!
GO LUDICROUS SPEED!!!
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Originally posted by Shrike
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Um, yeah.
Was that supposed to make sense?
And you call yourself a phisics student? You see that even Thunder got this. :ha: I CAN teach you physics! :p
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Best way to travel to another star: Tachyon Subspace.
Stargazer.
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Stardate.... unknown
Tactical Officer: "Sir, vadar has started a poll that will soon be so full of spam it will grow at an exponential rate!"
Captain: "Helm, get us out of here - warp nine, any heading! Engage!"
One thing - you are travelling faster than light at warp - you're just not doing it "inside" normal space. (hence "warp field", hence "get-out-by-gene-roddenberry")
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Originally posted by Tiara
Correction : Warp 0.1 till 9.9 is sublight speed.
Warp 10 = Speed of light
Wrong.
Warp 1 = c
Warp 2 = c^2
Warp 3 = c^4
Warp 4 = c^8
Warp 5 = c^16
Warp 6 = c^32
Warp 7 = c^64
Warp 8 = c^128
Warp 9 = c^256
Warp 10 = c^512
c=lightspeed.
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and that's wrong, too.
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Originally posted by Carl
and that's wrong, too.
When you say that something's wrong, you should also say what's the right answer. :lol:
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How about that Singularity Drive from Event Horizon? Sure, you looked down the gullet of hell itself, but...
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warp scale:
warp 1=c
warp 2=10c
warp 3=39c
warp 4=102c
warp 5=214c
warp 6=392c
warp 7=656c
warp 8=1024c
warp 9=1516c
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Originally posted by JC Denton
How about that Singularity Drive from Event Horizon? Sure, you looked down the gullet of hell itself, but...
;7
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I like the grav drive in the Honor Harrington books. Not only do you move fast, you are protected on top and bottom (in normal space).
BTW, this page show the real warp drive computations:
http://www.ditl.org/scitech/hedwarpscales.htm
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The Improbability Drive :p
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I like hyperspace. ^^;
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TriOptimum's FTL Drive, definitly. Not only is it fast, it allows you to rule the entire universe as well!
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The ST Warp Drive damages the universe and causes problems above warp 6.
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TriOptimum's FTL Drive modifies the universe to your own specifications. :ha:
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Go SHODAN! :)
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Dune yet. The spacing guild and their ability to bend space with their minds, using the spice for it's prescience abilities to find the safe, short, route through the eddies of FTL.
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Originally posted by Razor
And you call yourself a phisics student? You see that even Thunder got this. :ha: I CAN teach you physics! :p
Yeah, but you see, the comment made no sense, because Culture ships don't suffer time dilation from using their FTL drives.
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Originally posted by Ace
Go SHODAN! :)
Yay!
Originally posted by Ace
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Dune yet. The spacing guild and their ability to bend space with their minds, using the spice for it's prescience abilities to find the safe, short, route through the eddies of FTL.
Well, the real space travel on the Dune universe (not the movie crap) is some form of "standard" FTL travel - the only thing the spice does is the prediction part - no "space bending" capabilities...
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Originally posted by Zeronet
The ST Warp Drive damages the universe and causes problems above warp 6.
yes, it has pros and cons, just like real technology.
and that only happens with ships before the 2370's. after that variable geometry warp necelles significantly reduced the damage caused to space.
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Can the people that have chosen "Subspace" please explain. Cause the jump can only be made at 1 point and leads to only one exit. Thus some systems might be isolated from the rest of the galaxy cause they have no node. With for example warp you don't have that problem. You can go anywhere.
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Originally posted by Tiara
Can the people that have chosen "Subspace" please explain. Cause the jump can only be made at 1 point and leads to only one exit. Thus some systems might be isolated from the rest of the galaxy cause they have no node. With for example warp you don't have that problem. You can go anywhere.
Yeah, that's true. But isn't it the same case with B5 and Stargate methods?
The subspace would be really good without that con, but it's still good overall, being fast and recharges fast and stuff.
Maybe SW after all, though you can't escape with it very well, it malfunctiones often. Maybe hyperspace and subspace would own. :D
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Pantsy-ass non-science methods for travelling through space are A1-SUPAR! :D :p ;)
So I go for Bistromathics or Improbability. :lol:
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Originally posted by Styxx
Yay!
Well, the real space travel on the Dune universe (not the movie crap) is some form of "standard" FTL travel - the only thing the spice does is the prediction part - no "space bending" capabilities...
The last time I checked that is true, Herbert never mentions what is actually used for the FTL, only what is used for the navigation. I must have slipped up when I said the Steersmen folded space themselves. All they do is steer it.
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I voted starwars, Just cos the falcon jeeps breaking down is no reason to doubt the overwhelming might of an SSD exiting Hyperdrive about 500m above you... Anyhow if i had the choice my Eagle long range fighter and hyyperspace would deal in narcotics across the galaxy..... (elite as if you didnt guess) Hyperspace engines, They must be efficient, when they break you get slung to another arm of the galactic spiral, on one tonne of hydrogen fuel....;7
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I still favor the Hyperspace/Impeller-wedge tech from the Honor Harrington books. No real top speed (just a max acceleration), able to enter normal space from hyper-space at any point near the interface....
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I prefer the Frontier Ellite Hypedrive/Hyperspace. Buy a ton of hydrogen fuel and your in Ross 154 before you can blink... although it does take a few days outside your spaceship...
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The "VIMANA-drive" might be a good choice as well, only the human body would never survive the acceleration.
The VIMANA might be possible to use with unmanned, robotic probe-missions and such in the near future (50 years or so).
That's why I say Tachyon-Subspace all the way!
Escpesially if the humans are going to travel to the stars.
:)
A Warp-field could be possible as well, according to Stephen W. Hawking.
We should be capaple to built the first real warp engine in less then 30 years from now.
That is; if his theories are correct.
Stargazer.