Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: HotSnoJ on September 07, 2002, 03:25:47 am
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Could someone please explain the "Open Mind" stuff? I mean, they say you need to be open minded but Christians are bad. Doesn't make sense. If my view is that I shouldn't be open minded then why should say differantly?
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I am open minded so I don't care if your not. Its your choice. Just don't bother me with it :D.
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I'm a little confused by what you said but I personally think an open mind and some intelligence is a good thing. However the critical part is some intelligence - you have to know when to draw the line of being open minded and see what's really infront of you.
For instance, you could allow a religious group to commit genocide and say that just because you don't understand their beliefs doesn't mean you are in a position to tell them not to. However since killing of any kind is a bad thing the intelligence should come into play whereby you exam why that religious group is commiting genocide and when you discover that it's because they just happen to dislike the beliefs of those they are killing that they are indeed wrong.
Thus, open mindedness is a good thing that will help you to get on with many more people in life than if you had strong personal beliefs that you choose to voice loudly and strongly, but on the other hand being open-minded doesn't mean bending over backwards to what everyone else says - as just because you are being open minded enough to understand it, doesn't always mean that they are right....
I've no idea if that answered what you posted but it's what I think... hope it made some sort of sense.
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I always listen to what the other person has to say and take that into account when I reply to a certain topic. Wether I agree with them or not I always listen to it.
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Hehe, I think you just boiled my long paragraphs into a sentence ;)
So it's the listening that's good - but you have to know when to speak up as well.
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Originally posted by Thunder
So it's the listening that's good - but you have to know when to speak up as well.
Yeah, but ALWAYS listen/think first and speak up later or you might make mistakes that come back to haunt you.
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Originally posted by Thunder
However since killing of any kind is a bad thing...
Surpirsingly enough, I have to disagree with that statement there. While I dislike killing (and thank God I haven't run into a situation yet where I've had to), my disagreement comes partially from the stupid translation mix-up of the 6th Commandment, "You shall not murder." Which is often understood as "You shall not kill," an entirely diffrerent act.
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Being open minded is good. Compromising your principles is bad. Find a line to walk between the two and the world will be a batter place. :)
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Surpirsingly enough, I have to disagree with that statement there. While I dislike killing (and thank God I haven't run into a situation yet where I've had to), my disagreement comes partially from the stupid translation mix-up of the 6th Commandment, "You shall not murder." Which is often understood as "You shall not kill," an entirely diffrerent act.
Hmm, perhaps I should rephrase - killing for sport (animals) or killing any human is wrong as far as I'm concerned. However, if someone kills I still haven't decided wether they themselves should be killed. However it's a grey area...
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yeah, lets kill all our brave War veterens who fought for our freedom :rolleyes: or the troops that kicked the Taliban out. I disagree, murder is wrong but a soldier killing a soldier is not.
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But soldiers kill civilians, people dropping the bombs kill civilians. The generals pressing the buttons kill civilians... do you see where I'm going with this? War is quite possibly the most pointless activity known to man, nothing will ever justify it for me. If only nukes were a deterent to be feared... it'd be very simple...
"Stop killing innocent people or we nuke you."
"oh, er, ok."
The end.
Unfortunately that's not the case, so we try and justify the fighting... goverments press their beliefs onto others in the name of peace keeping... if the current method of inter-nation relations between countries keeps up we are going to see another major war in the next two years, probably less.
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I personally have never seen the point in wars. Especially from a 'me' perspective. Why would anyone want to go out and die? If your contry is invaded the invader cannot force you to do anything. If they say "Right, £200 a week tithe from every person must be paid to the Emperor", and no-one pays, what can they do? Kill everyone?
And if conquered or oppressed populations would realise that if everyone just says no, then the rulers are ****ed, then the world would be a better place.
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Originally posted by an0n
I personally have never seen the point in wars.
What the...!? an0n...? Are you alright? You seem... different... :p
Especially from a 'me' perspective. Why would anyone want to go out and die? If your contry is invaded the invader cannot force you to do anything. If they say "Right, £200 a week tithe from every person must be paid to the Emperor", and no-one pays, what can they do? Kill everyone?
No just a town as example...
And if conquered or oppressed populations would realise that if everyone just says no, then the rulers are ****ed, then the world would be a better place.
...
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Originally posted by Thunder
But soldiers kill civilians, people dropping the bombs kill civilians. The generals pressing the buttons kill civilians... do you see where I'm going with this? War is quite possibly the most pointless activity known to man, nothing will ever justify it for me. If only nukes were a deterent to be feared... it'd be very simple...
"Stop killing innocent people or we nuke you."
"oh, er, ok."
The end.
Unfortunately that's not the case, so we try and justify the fighting... goverments press their beliefs onto others in the name of peace keeping... if the current method of inter-nation relations between countries keeps up we are going to see another major war in the next two years, probably less.
Sorry but if i join the Army, i wont be shooting civilians, shooting civilians IS wrong, killing the enemy Isnt. Still with every war innocent people die, it sad but true, people like Saddamn ignore UN resolutions because they hope the mainland Europe opinion will remain and they wont get attacked. Sometimes, Force is the only way to solve a problem and no weapon is perfect, accidents do happen and will always happen, however the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and soldiers join up, hoping they wont get into war, but are fully prepared to die fighting one.
Trust me, they'd be a substaintial degree more war if nukes didnt exist.
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What people fail to realise is that a conquered country effectively has a few million badly-trained, mal-armed troops. But they're to friggin retarded to think "Well there's 200,000 people in my town and their army only has 500,000 troops to hold the entire country"
And just because I don't see the point in wars doesn't mean I'm not up for some random, thermo-nuclear violence.
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I'm too cowardly to fight a battle. --;;
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Originally posted by delta_7890
I'm too cowardly to fight a battle. --;;
You wouldn't need to if everyone would stop being so retarded.
"Oh, yes, lets go and forcibly claim some land." Why?!?!
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The war in vietnam was one war that it was very hard to tell who were the enemy and who were the civilians.. I`ve had a lot of frends who fought in nam and most of them agree on one thing, that war was pointless... On a side note, some of them still suffer from flashbacks and believe they are back in it again... One of my friends had a flashback while driving his car!!! He said he was luck no one got hurt... My point is that even in war there are times when it`s hard to determine who is the enemy and who is the civillian, as was the case in vietnam...
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First of all I want to thank you all for answering me.
Second I want to reply to some posts here.
War is needed sometimes, and I stress sometimes. If anyone told you war was bad they are right. But there is good in it. #1 If Hitler had gone unchecked he would have been in power longer and would have had more of it. And don't tell that's good or you don't care. #2 Just look at all of the technology that was discovered in WWII. When you use hair spray you can thank WW2 for giveing you that.
War is bad because of the loss of life. But just think how you would be living today if there was no WWII or any wars against any tyrant! I personally have never seen the point in wars. Especially from a 'me' perspective. Why would anyone want to go out and die? If your country is invaded the invader cannot force you to do anything. If they say "Right, £200 a week tithe from every person must be paid to the Emperor", and no-one pays, what can they do? Kill everyone?
And if conquered or oppressed populations would realise that if everyone just says no, then the rulers are fu**ed, then the world would be a better place.
Well thats just the problem with you. The men in war never thought about themselfs really. Sure there might have been guys who were. But for the most part they were there to earn money for family and defend their home from a tyrant. (notice "rant" is part of tyrant just noticed that)
If no one paid the "Emperor" then he or someone that is in power will make an example of a few towns to get the rest to do what they want. Of course of that gets too bad people will rebel.
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Most of the people who claim that they are open minded, particularly in justifications for how others are wrong, are full of it.
In the absolute sense"open minded" would mean something like what the Thunder said, except even more objective- a truly open-minded person wouldn't even make the judgement that that was necessarily wrong. I took a shot at being open-minded in the absolute sense once. It sucks, and it really is more of a euphemism for empty-minded.
Generally, it simply means that one is open to the most compelling facts and ideas presented, and tries to weigh everything objectively, without preconceptions getting in the way. This is the way I try to be, but I'm not always successful. Plus, the arguments that formed my opinion in the first place were generally pretty damn compelling, so it's not too often I encounter comething that changes my views completely. But it happens, occasionally.
Most of the people I've observed who make that claim, though, are anything but. They say it because they're politically within what is defined as "leftist", and since leftists are generally stereotyped as more willing to be reasoned with (hence the misuse of the term "liberal"), they let that work for them in calling everyone else a bigoted redneck who wouldn't know a logical argument of it crawled up their ass and laid eggs. Hence the term "hysterical liberal"- one with ultra-leftist views and a fascist, bullying concept of how to spread and enforce them. They're the most repulsive people on the planet to me, because they attempt to equate themselves to the great people who ARE truly objective and reasonable.
In fact, I've seen more stubborn, ignorant jackasses on the "left" than I have on the "right". I think all the terminology gets into their brain, and convinces them they really are the most reasonable people on the planet, and thus that they need make no attempts to be. Effectively, they're Nazis, and fairly dangerous sorts, so it's best to avoid anyone who says they're open-minded (or anything of the sort), and then proceeds to prove themselves wrong.
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Anyway. I'm not particularly opposed to war in the abstract. I know of a handful of causes I'd be willing to kill and die to further. I am, however, opposed to drafts and getting relatively neutral parties involved, such as civilians. Unless you're thoroughly willing to fight and die for the particular cause you're fighting and dying for, you have no business in a war.
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Surpirsingly enough, I have to disagree with that statement there. While I dislike killing (and thank God I haven't run into a situation yet where I've had to), my disagreement comes partially from the stupid translation mix-up of the 6th Commandment, "You shall not murder." Which is often understood as "You shall not kill," an entirely diffrerent act.
just kinda realized that... wow
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but okay, open-mindedness, you let other people do whatever as long as they don't bug you about it. like, with the whole genocide example. what if you're the one up for genocide? or your family? and so you kill someone first so they won't kill you and then everyone jumps on you for killing someone- in self-defence, though, you tell them, but they're not going to listen to that, are they? not when you've _killed_ someone.
did that make sense?
and as for land-grabbing war, that's a stereotype too. what if there's so many people in your country that you're fighting to breathe, andthere's this great empty country next to you- hey, no one's using it!- but they won't let you in? isn't that just greediness? Or not?
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Room for one more opinion? Here goes:
To kill a person is always wrong, no matter what the circumstances.
Sometimes it can't be avoided; world isn't perfect, we meet the limits of our capabilities.
Then we just have to find a way to live with it - the rest of our lives.
But trying to explain the wrong-doing away or 'convert' it into a positive thing.. to me it sounds like an attempt to uphold a self-portrait that probably never was true.
Uhh.. how heavy can these topics get :eek2:
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Originally posted by castor
Uhh.. how heavy can these topics get :eek2:
This is nothing. ;)
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I do think that it is stupid to try and justify a "wrongdoing," but that is because no justification is needed. To do wrong is to do right. :D
Uhh.. how heavy can these topics get
you have seen nothing yet; check out some of my posts on anything related to politics or philosophy. :D (some posts go on literally for over 30 screens :D)
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...you have seen nothing yet; check out some of my posts on anything related to politics or philosophy. :D (some posts go on literally for over 30 screens :D)
(http://anywherebb.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif)
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Stargazer.
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Originally posted by CP5670
(some posts go on literally for over 30 screens :D)
you maxed out at 20-something at 1280x1024. ;)