Post by: Taristin on May 02, 2004, 10:04:11 am
>>The meshes are smooth, and there are now lights at both ends of the path!
Oh, and... err... I fixed it so that subspace travels in the right direction. :nervous:
>>Edit: Tiling Fixed.
Post by: Taristin on May 02, 2004, 10:05:00 am
Post by: Lightspeed on May 02, 2004, 10:09:33 am
Post by: Taristin on May 02, 2004, 10:10:23 am
Post by: Taristin on May 02, 2004, 10:11:42 am
Though the screenshot says 32 fps, it was, in reality, ~60 with the Lucifer on screen also. So Don't Worry! :)
Post by: Sheepy on May 02, 2004, 04:55:09 pm
Post by: Taristin on May 02, 2004, 04:56:22 pm
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 02, 2004, 05:00:21 pm
Post by: Taristin on May 02, 2004, 05:06:26 pm
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 02, 2004, 05:09:45 pm
Post by: Taristin on May 02, 2004, 05:39:51 pm
Post by: Lightspeed on May 03, 2004, 06:33:54 am
Life sucks.
Post by: Setekh on May 03, 2004, 07:09:31 am
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Better maps are underway. Theyll jump in any minute :p
:ick::ha: :lol:
Looking awesome, Raa. That's a fantastic improvement. :nod:
Post by: Lightspeed on May 03, 2004, 07:13:50 am
Post by: Fineus on May 03, 2004, 08:24:00 am
Oh, one question...is there any way we can apply glow mapping to the maps of the current subspace? Might look neat...
Post by: Taristin on May 03, 2004, 11:10:19 am
Post by: Bobboau on May 03, 2004, 11:15:49 am
Post by: Lightspeed on May 03, 2004, 11:21:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
that would be pointless, there fullbright, the textures applyed now are glowmaps already
Post by: Taristin on May 03, 2004, 11:33:46 am
Post by: Bobboau on May 03, 2004, 11:42:09 am
Post by: Antares on May 03, 2004, 12:53:53 pm
:p
Post by: Lightspeed on May 03, 2004, 02:46:38 pm
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/SCP/subspacetry1.jpg)
Attempt #2:
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/SCP/subspacetry2.jpg)
I still need to tweak a lot before it actually will look any good.
Post by: Flipside on May 03, 2004, 03:32:36 pm
Post by: Flaser on May 03, 2004, 03:59:21 pm
Post by: Unknown Target on May 03, 2004, 04:11:47 pm
Post by: J3Vr6 on May 03, 2004, 04:41:03 pm
Post by: redsniper on May 03, 2004, 04:51:27 pm
Post by: Starks on May 03, 2004, 04:55:14 pm
Post by: J3Vr6 on May 03, 2004, 05:01:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by J3Vr6
Any way to make it look like a ripple passes over the surface of the tube?
But couldn't an ani be used for that?
No, I have no idea.
Post by: Turambar on May 03, 2004, 05:02:37 pm
Post by: Fineus on May 03, 2004, 05:22:08 pm
Post by: Lightspeed on May 03, 2004, 06:23:45 pm
But I *think* it would look cool if that flickery thing could be applied that (Bob?) someone once put into a test build for simulating 'wobbling damaged ships'.
Quote
I sitll think these - along with the ones made by Carl - lack the transparent Ghosty feel of the original FS1 version.
Flaser, you stated exactly the reason why I don't like my textures that much yet. I'm still trying to get that feeling back in, tho.
-edit: Oh, and I originally had an ANI planned but someone (Flipside?) said it didn't work so I just didnt even bother to waste my time trying :P
Post by: Ransom on May 03, 2004, 06:38:35 pm
Post by: Anaz on May 03, 2004, 06:43:33 pm
Post by: Starks on May 03, 2004, 06:55:47 pm
Post by: Antares on May 03, 2004, 07:26:04 pm
The second one has a little more variety, but the bright areas look a little -too- bright to me--I'd think something like that would be distracting in a battle. If those white regions could be toned down, and perhaps the 'light' at the end of the tunnel made to look like it was a little 'nearer', then I think we'd have a winner.
If you're shooting for a 'creepy' feeling, then lightning bolts skirting along the textures would be spiffy, but so far as I know, we can't do that.
Post by: Langy on May 03, 2004, 08:12:44 pm
What I mean is, I'd really, really like to have that awesome corkscrew effectif at all possible. As someone else said, it still looks too flat.
Anyways, that second texture looks awesome, lightwave! Maybe you could make that bright splotch a single, continous swirl? Just an idea.
Post by: DaBrain on May 04, 2004, 03:50:18 am
Post by: Ransom on May 04, 2004, 04:06:50 am
Post by: Setekh on May 04, 2004, 04:49:17 am
Post by: Lightspeed on May 04, 2004, 05:51:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by Antares
The second one has a little more variety, but the bright areas look a little -too- bright to me--I'd think something like that would be distracting in a battle. If those white regions could be toned down, and perhaps the 'light' at the end of the tunnel made to look like it was a little 'nearer', then I think we'd have a winner.
The size of the light is completely variable as you can make it big/small according to the sun placed there AFAIK.
At least the textures dont have any influence on it.
Post by: Black Wolf on May 04, 2004, 07:50:15 am
Post by: Taristin on May 04, 2004, 07:53:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
The size of the light is completely variable as you can make it big/small according to the sun placed there AFAIK.
At least the textures dont have any influence on it.
That's what I thought, too. But appearently, the 'suns' really aren't. They're thrusters. :doubt:
Post by: Taristin on May 04, 2004, 07:56:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by Langy
I really, really like that second one. Though, a slight suggestion: Would it be possible to use that corckscrew-style mesh someone made in the old thread, or something like it? I know that there were problems with using it due to the way it rotated or something like that, and to be honest I didn't quite understand that when I read it, but I think that it should be possible to make it the inside one that does rotate with having the second mesh be just a cylinder?
That mesh was ruled out because it didn't display properly. It had a problem in how polies facing away from you were rendered (or not rendered) and really looked :ick: in game. I may try to make a less-exaggerated version of that later, however. But not now.
Post by: Lightspeed on May 04, 2004, 09:54:25 am
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/SCP/subspacetry3.jpg)
still needs a lot of work.
Post by: Singh on May 04, 2004, 09:58:43 am
Post by: Lightspeed on May 04, 2004, 09:59:41 am
Post by: Singh on May 04, 2004, 10:02:13 am
Post by: Lightspeed on May 04, 2004, 10:06:00 am
The main issue is well, you couldnt have put it better, it's too 'rough'.
Post by: Urban Cowboy on May 04, 2004, 10:40:31 am
Long time reader, first time poster. I have to commend everyone for doing this. I don't have skills in photoediting or 3D modeling, so I doubt I could contribute much, but I've been an avid FS2 player back from its early days. Love what I've been seeing in all the threads. Played Inferno....good god...
Anyway, I've been reading the subspace threads and I think what's shown is a vast improvement over the stock effects. Some people are saying to make it more eerie and mysterious. I agree, and the above post I think is a good step.
if I remember correctly, I heard the subspace model is actually two rotating cylinders spinning in opposite directions. What if you all use the map of the cloak effect (CarL's?) on the outer cylinder and use Lightspeed's map above, I guess after it's smoothed out or whatever is planned? Just a thought.
I had another idea for the subspace effect. In the anime series 'Cowboy Bebop', they use jumpgates. The effect is really neat, as it seems like a bunch of blastlines moving at high speeds. Would that be achievable? Or would it not be as mysterious as you all would want it?
EDIT: Sorry...meant Sandwich's version...
Post by: Lightspeed on May 04, 2004, 10:42:47 am
And the screenies I posted actually do use 2 textures :)
Post by: Urban Cowboy on May 04, 2004, 10:47:46 am
yeah, I see that they use two textures. I was just saying that the outer one could be Sandwich's variety with the lightning ripple effect...or would that be too much?
Post by: Lightspeed on May 04, 2004, 10:54:58 am
Post by: Taristin on May 04, 2004, 11:13:55 am
Post by: Antares on May 04, 2004, 11:15:14 am
I agree with the others; the walls of the tunnel look too much like solid material, as if you were boring through the ground. The effect might look better if those surfaces were smoothed, or made to look more gaseous--like clouds as opposed to water.
Post by: Lightspeed on May 04, 2004, 01:26:43 pm
The walls indeed look a bit too solid, that's one of my main problems.
I'll just give the textures a few more goes in PSD, and see what comes out of it.
Post by: Fineus on May 04, 2004, 01:44:40 pm
Post by: J3Vr6 on May 04, 2004, 01:56:36 pm
Post by: Fineus on May 04, 2004, 02:09:13 pm
Post by: Turambar on May 04, 2004, 02:12:37 pm
Post by: J3Vr6 on May 04, 2004, 02:23:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Say... speaking of ripples... is there any way to make it "pulse" from one end to the other from "behind" you to "infront of you"? To create the impression that energy of some kind of surging from one end to the other.. sort of like the currents of a tide...
Kalfireth, that's exactly what I was talking about!!! Thanks for putting it in a way that actually makes sense :p
Post by: karajorma on May 04, 2004, 02:34:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Urban Cowboy
Long time reader, first time poster. I have to commend everyone for doing this. I don't have skills in photoediting or 3D modeling, so I doubt I could contribute much, but I've been an avid FS2 player back from its early days. Love what I've been seeing in all the threads.
Don't be too sure. :) Lots of people here have said pretty much the same thing and then gone on to do great things for the community.
Besides even playtesting is worthwhile as long as you report bugs. I'm sure you could to that :) All you have to do it play the game and note carefully when something goes wrong :)
Anyway
:welcome:
Post by: Taristin on May 04, 2004, 02:37:17 pm
Can you implement that D3 style damage thing again? The one that makes the mesh warble? Just for the subspace pof?
Post by: Fineus on May 04, 2004, 02:38:11 pm
Post by: Taristin on May 04, 2004, 03:02:28 pm
Post by: Carl on May 04, 2004, 03:39:09 pm
(http://img36.photobucket.com/albums/v109/Carltheshivan/698fb108.jpg)
and see the white blob to the far left? that's the end of the tunnel glow.
Post by: J3Vr6 on May 04, 2004, 03:56:12 pm
Post by: DaBrain on May 04, 2004, 04:19:09 pm
I would like to see an (fake) glare effect. Somehow like this:
(http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/subspacetry3.jpg)
Post by: Turambar on May 04, 2004, 04:31:28 pm
GET RID OF THEM!!!
Post by: DaBrain on May 04, 2004, 04:34:50 pm
Post by: Starfighter on May 04, 2004, 04:40:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
This is a (25 sec) mockup. Only wanted to show what I had in mind.
You all need your models to be transparant! that will get the black squares of death to go away transparant textures are good but the model itslef is transparant! thats why you can see the backgrounds in subspace, and for me it's a must have feal!
Post by: Gregster2k on May 04, 2004, 06:38:01 pm
basically i want to know if I can set a NORMAL mission backdrop or even a skybox "outside" the subspace tunnel, so that the tunnel is transparently superimposed over that background. With a few modifications to the subspace textures, i could then theoretically make a good attempt at the Star Trek Warp Speed Effect (multicolored streaky lines plus normal starfields, faster in center, slower at edges)....
Post by: Carl on May 04, 2004, 06:41:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
thers STILL BLACK SPLOTCHES!!!!
GET RID OF THEM!!!
the black splotches are empty space. without them you couldn't see the other layer very well.
Post by: Turambar on May 04, 2004, 06:45:38 pm
Post by: JarC on May 04, 2004, 07:21:11 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Carl:lol: you too eh?...mine chickened out too...:sigh:
well this isn't right. no, no this isn't right at all.
[(pic)
and see the white blob to the far left? that's the end of the tunnel glow.
Post by: JarC on May 04, 2004, 07:35:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Attempt #1: (pic)
Attempt #2: (pic)
I like #1 best, at first glance it gives the best impression of a wavey surface...but then the ripple spoils it...the second is to bright...or better...too much white...
Post by: Ransom on May 04, 2004, 07:55:45 pm
Turambar: If the black splotches are removed it would just look like you're going through a tunnel of weird looking water, not like subspace. I think it looks better with them anyway.
Post by: Taristin on May 04, 2004, 08:52:53 pm
Post by: Carl on May 04, 2004, 08:57:37 pm
well, it was a fenris, but i changed it to a lucifer, and didn't bother to change the class. it's just a test mission.
Post by: Sesquipedalian on May 04, 2004, 09:51:40 pm
Original subspace pofs:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/scroll/misc/oldsubspacepof.gif)
Raa's new subspace pofs:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/scroll/misc/newsubspacepof.gif)
Notice that on the new pofs, the walls look much more solid. If the number of times the texture is tiled on the Raa's new pof could be reduced, it would help a lot to fix the "solid wall" effect.
Post by: Fineus on May 05, 2004, 02:44:04 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
thers STILL BLACK SPLOTCHES!!!!
GET RID OF THEM!!!
Mod it yourself then, nobody else seems to find them an issue :)
Post by: Lightspeed on May 05, 2004, 04:07:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
Can you add another mesh in the tunnel ?
I would like to see an (fake) glare effect. Somehow like this:
(http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/subspacetry3.jpg)
nice edit of my image. I was trying to get something like that to work as well, but it doesn't - the texture is tiled too much.
Plus, i'd need a third mesh, something I dont have :doubt:
I'll work on it some more today and see what I can come up with.
Post by: Fineus on May 05, 2004, 05:27:18 am
Just a thought...
Post by: DaBrain on May 05, 2004, 05:48:50 am
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
nice edit of my image. I was trying to get something like that to work as well, but it doesn't - the texture is tiled too much.
Plus, i'd need a third mesh, something I dont have :doubt:
I'll work on it some more today and see what I can come up with.
The third mesh (to place in the inside), shouldn't be moving.
And it should have an untiled, single texrure.
BTW, are you able to add glowpoints to the model ?
That would look awsome. But the should never touch the model.
Post by: Lightspeed on May 05, 2004, 07:54:08 am
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
The third mesh (to place in the inside), shouldn't be moving.
And it should have an untiled, single texrure.
BTW, are you able to add glowpoints to the model ?
That would look awsome. But the should never touch the model.
While the first part makes sense and would certainly look cool i'm quite puzzled at what the second thing should mean.
glowpoints? :wtf:
I don't quite see how they'd help anything there.
Post by: Setekh on May 05, 2004, 08:16:03 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
i don't care, all i want is to not see black splotches. and this "other layer" better not be black!
:wtf: Dude, this subspace is no more black than the normal subspace. If you want a new version with no blackness, you should make one for yourself. :yes:
Quote
Originally posted by Urban Cowboy
Hi all,
Long time reader, first time poster. I have to commend everyone for doing this. I don't have skills in photoediting or 3D modeling, so I doubt I could contribute much, but I've been an avid FS2 player back from its early days. Love what I've been seeing in all the threads. Played Inferno....good god...
A belated welcome to HLP then, Urban Cowboy. :) I'm just overjoyed to see more people who enjoy the game come out of the woodwork and get involved with the community. It's a beautiful thing, when everyone is coming together and enjoying making this game better. :nod:
:welcome:
Post by: karajorma on May 05, 2004, 08:28:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
glowpoints? :wtf:
I don't quite see how they'd help anything there.
From what I read on the other thread the Subspace model has glowpoints at both ends of the tunnel.
Post by: Taristin on May 05, 2004, 08:34:09 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
Notice that on the new pofs, the walls look much more solid. If the number of times the texture is tiled on the Raa's new pof could be reduced, it would help a lot to fix the "solid wall" effect.
That's an easy fix. I'll do it tonight. how many times does the texture run along the original mesh, BTW? Mine has 3 repeats, but I guess that's too much.
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
From what I read on the other thread the Subspace model has glowpoints at both ends of the tunnel.
No.
It has thruster points. As does mine. Glowpoints are an FSO feature, are they not?
Post by: Lightspeed on May 05, 2004, 10:08:18 am
Post by: Sandwich on May 05, 2004, 10:54:22 am
[list=1]
- Make a fist
- Forcefully insert fist through monitor glass
- Remove fist before the blood obscures the electron guns
- Position one eye in front of newly-made hole in monitor
- Look into electron gun beams for 24.6 seconds.
- Take a screenshot of what you see
- Post the screenshot here
Note: You might want to print these instructions out in case you forget a step, since step 2 will render your monitor unusable.
Post by: Sesquipedalian on May 05, 2004, 12:50:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'hI'm not sure, but I'd guess two.
That's an easy fix. I'll do it tonight. how many times does the texture run along the original mesh, BTW? Mine has 3 repeats, but I guess that's too much.
Post by: Flipside on May 05, 2004, 01:24:54 pm
Post by: Gregster2k on May 05, 2004, 01:52:03 pm
Post by: Taristin on May 05, 2004, 02:12:09 pm
Post by: Turambar on May 05, 2004, 02:15:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh
:wtf: Dude, this subspace is no more black than the normal subspace. If you want a new version with no blackness, you should make one for yourself. :yes:
I'm tempted. There was this cool looking thing in the nebula thread I remember, I'll post a link later.
Post by: Gregster2k on May 05, 2004, 03:26:15 pm
During my experimentation however, I found something cool: set the skybox of a mission to one of the Subspace POF files, and you get a non-rotating version of Subspace with no sound changes and no lights at the tunnel ends. It looks very, very weird.
Next up, I'll be experimenting with nebulae + subspace :)
Post by: Starks on May 05, 2004, 04:00:31 pm
Post by: Anaz on May 05, 2004, 04:12:17 pm
Post by: Rictor on May 05, 2004, 04:19:30 pm
That, and what I also liked about the old new (previous thread) version, was how it had the "lightning" texture, which was very appropriate. Yours however had the advantage of looking "solid" as opposed to "energy-like".
....And I'm fairly certain that made no sense at all, but then again, most of what I say doesn't.
Post by: Lightspeed on May 06, 2004, 01:01:10 pm
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/SCP/subspacetry4.jpg)
I'm not yet sure if i like it - so I might toss this one completely.
Post by: Taristin on May 06, 2004, 01:05:38 pm
As much as I love it and would like to use it in game, I'm not sure how well it fits as 'subspace'...
Post by: Unknown Target on May 06, 2004, 01:14:36 pm
And Raa, that's exactly what I was thinking, about the tunnel through water bit :D But I think it's a very nice interpretation of subspace :)
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 06, 2004, 01:16:14 pm
Post by: Stunaep on May 06, 2004, 01:35:18 pm
Post by: SadisticSid on May 06, 2004, 01:38:58 pm
Post by: DaBrain on May 06, 2004, 03:46:10 pm
But on the other hand I don't like it when I imagine to fly through this thing with a couple of fighters and a capship.
This is not very helpful, but know it needs something, I don't know what.
Something that creates a better "feeling".
Perhaps this can't be done with only texturechanges...
Edit: Don't missunderstand me this IS better than the old tunnel.
Post by: J3Vr6 on May 06, 2004, 04:00:04 pm
Post by: SGGWD on May 06, 2004, 04:37:42 pm
Post by: Flipside on May 06, 2004, 04:43:40 pm
Also, I get the wierdest feeling a Tardis is going to pass by any moment ???
Post by: Turambar on May 06, 2004, 04:47:57 pm
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 06, 2004, 04:50:00 pm
Post by: Antares on May 06, 2004, 04:58:29 pm
Post by: Urban Cowboy on May 06, 2004, 05:30:13 pm
I don't know. It gives it that unstable feeling which I think gives the pilot something to fear when inside. Like if I'm not careful, I could get spit out and ripped asunder.
I think the glare effect should stay, but tone it down a bit if possible. Still looks a bit rough. I don't know if the watery image the tunnel presents is enough to pull off the ripple effect, but not bad. Other than that, I like the progress.
Oh, just noticed this...out of curiousity, what is that little dark gray spec in the upper right hand corner?
Post by: SadisticSid on May 06, 2004, 06:08:21 pm
Post by: Taristin on May 06, 2004, 06:13:15 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Urban Cowboy
I think the black spots provide a bit of enigma (I guess) to the whole thing. It gives you the impression that subsace could spit you out if it wanted to...
That's what I thought, too. It'd be awesome if you could see empty space through the openings in the walls. Like it's an actual tunnel through space, and not a solid tube like Turumbar keeps asking for.
Post by: ShadowDrakken on May 06, 2004, 06:19:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Todays version of subspace:
I'm not yet sure if i like it - so I might toss this one completely.
I like it LS, the whole watery effect looks good for a subspace tunnel. Of course, stills never show how things look in game when they're animated and moving.
Post by: Setekh on May 06, 2004, 08:14:22 pm
Post by: Gregster2k on May 06, 2004, 09:29:56 pm
Post by: ShadowDrakken on May 06, 2004, 09:38:18 pm
Post by: Gregster2k on May 06, 2004, 10:09:41 pm
Post by: mrfun on May 06, 2004, 10:39:13 pm
Yup. I would like that. Mmm.
Post by: redsniper on May 06, 2004, 11:00:33 pm
Post by: ShadowDrakken on May 06, 2004, 11:56:16 pm
Gregster: I saw the models, I didn't know they gave up on it. I don't see where it would be a problem to be honest since there shouldn't be anything transparent anyway except maybe the top textures. The base texture and the overall model look to be opaque to me
Post by: Ace on May 07, 2004, 12:21:20 am
As it is though, I think it's a little too rough looking of an effect though his heart is in the right place with the idea.
Post by: Raptor on May 07, 2004, 04:58:42 am
I can sorta see what people mean about the 'tunnel though water' effect, but frankly, I don't see that.
Please carry on with this, don't lose heart now!:yes:
Post by: Fineus on May 07, 2004, 05:20:31 am
Post by: JarC on May 07, 2004, 06:01:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turambarwhy do you keep insisting, if you are so deadset against black, make your own, now stop nitpicking at each other...!!!
I think that the black in the energy vortex needs to go away. but ive said this already. why do you guys think that the black needs to stay.
Post by: Lightspeed on May 07, 2004, 07:33:22 am
Expect some updated images today - might even have a version suitable for release this evening :nod:
Now as for the comments...
Quote
I think the black spots provide a bit of enigma (I guess) to the whole thing. It gives you the impression that subsace could spit you out if it wanted to...
You're observing this from the wrong point of view. Basically, what FS2's jump drives do is create a *tunnel* through the subspace vortex - there's 'real space' inside, and it is SURROUNDED by subspace.
Its like:
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/SCP/function.jpg)
So its rather that an unstable node that collapses will 'devour' any ships flying through the tunnel - The tunnel is a quite interesting phenomena as you 'penetrate' subspace with a thin tunnel of normal space you're able to fly and survive in.
This is also the explanation why you can fire guns and fly normally.
Post by: Fineus on May 07, 2004, 07:39:58 am
Post by: Sandwich on May 07, 2004, 07:52:33 am
Post by: ARothers on May 07, 2004, 08:31:52 am
Post by: Flaser on May 07, 2004, 09:04:14 am
Aside that, the latest Lightspeed version is the best of what I've seen.
IMHO subspace is not in a different dimension or an another place. The best comparision I can come up with is a house - the way some people see subspace is like the attic of the house - we live on the first floor, and when I exit into subspace I climb a ladder.
I see it differently - subspace is not another level of our reality - it's in exactly the same spot as our own universe.
Instead the attic, it's the very air that surrounds us in the house except no one sees it.
Post by: Setekh on May 07, 2004, 10:03:26 am
Quote
Originally posted by JarC
why do you keep insisting, if you are so deadset against black, make your own, now stop nitpicking at each other...!!!
:nod:
Post by: Urban Cowboy on May 07, 2004, 11:49:07 am
I guess the best way to visualize that for me would be the tunnel effect at an aquarium. You walk through the lobbies and the smaller galleries, then you come to a transparent glass tunnel, surrounded on the outside by water and everything in it.
If I recall, jump drives in FS open the door. Then I guess subspace acts as an accelerator and pulls you through.
Hehehe....adventures in subspace...
Post by: Turambar on May 07, 2004, 11:58:39 am
Post by: Lightspeed on May 07, 2004, 12:56:33 pm
This is what i've got right now:
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/SCP/subspacetry5.jpg)
I'm getting there...
Post by: Singh on May 07, 2004, 01:16:17 pm
Pretty good otherwise though :)
Post by: DaBrain on May 07, 2004, 01:28:36 pm
Could you do me a favour ? Please disable the layer with the water effect on it and take an in-game shot.
I think this is what I don't like. Because it looks pixelated near your ship. I'd like it more cloudy somehow...
BTW did you replace the outer layer with :v:'s inner layer ?
I can see noise01b clouds ;)
(Old-New)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/SCP/subspacetry4.jpg)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/SCP/subspacetry5.jpg)
Post by: J3Vr6 on May 07, 2004, 01:32:58 pm
I really can't wait to see this in-game. the only thing I can see bad is that the tunnel is gonna look oh so more pretty than the ships in it, so the ships are really gonna look out of place.
Can u make a mission with ships inside?
Post by: Gregster2k on May 07, 2004, 01:36:59 pm
quite frankly at this point im ready to try using some PS filters to try and rip that texture off of the image itself...
Post by: DaBrain on May 07, 2004, 02:06:06 pm
I think I just had a good idea.
LS is doing his best to make the tunnels appearance less solid.
But I think that's not 100% possible if you only change the textures.
How about some other "thrusters" in the model ?
I imagine them to create somekind of "fade-out" nebula.
This is used in most games to create a better feeling of distance.
Well, volumetric nabulas are not required for a space-sim, with some exceptions. The subspace is one of this exceptions.
This is a cheap trick, but as the player can never reach the thrustermap, nobody will notice it.
Here is my idea:
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040507/1083956277.jpg)
Post by: Taristin on May 07, 2004, 03:07:50 pm
What is it, exactly, that you want modelled/poffed?
Post by: Lightspeed on May 07, 2004, 05:02:41 pm
Quote
Looks like the tunnel got shorter...
Could you do me a favour ? Please disable the layer with the water effect on it and take an in-game shot.
I think this is what I don't like. Because it looks pixelated near your ship. I'd like it more cloudy somehow...
BTW did you replace the outer layer with :v:'s inner layer ?
I can see noise01b clouds
1) It did not get shorter. The centre is 'spewing out' the lighter specks of the texture which gives it a kinda cool effect as if the whole thing was thrust out of the glow in the middle. Hard to explain, but really nice effect.
2) Without that effect it would look pretty boring. It would be some dark blue-ish clouds without any white on it. You seem to be missing the fact that the whole *texture* is based on the watery effect. I see the problem with it getting pixelated, and although you dont notice it much from viewing at the latest two screenies (see your own post) I have worked to solve this issue a lot - and it's quite better already (hard to see, but notice the bit of detail near you in the second image). I have faith that with a bit more of fiddling I can get it to look decent both at short and long range... In theory :p
3) No, they're rendered in the same order as V's maps were, unless Raa's models change the textures - something I don't think that happens.
Post by: WMCoolmon on May 07, 2004, 05:21:40 pm
Post by: ShadowDrakken on May 07, 2004, 09:14:43 pm
Post by: Taristin on May 07, 2004, 09:18:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
3) No, they're rendered in the same order as V's maps were, unless Raa's models change the textures - something I don't think that happens.
As closely to V's model as I could go. There is some discrepency, but the inegral data is correct.
Post by: Starks on May 07, 2004, 10:28:57 pm
Post by: redsniper on May 07, 2004, 10:55:57 pm
Post by: Unknown Target on May 07, 2004, 10:58:45 pm
Post by: Gregster2k on May 07, 2004, 11:03:57 pm
Why Lucy vulnerable? WHO CARES? Why do you care? It's subspace, its a faster than light tunnel, shields dont work in it. Period. Who cares about WHY? It's a GAME, and subspace is only the way it is because [V] made it that way. Trying to justify WHY [V] made it that way will just clog this thread with random speculations.
(And as you can tell, I REALLY hate reading threads full of offtopic stuff.)
Now, back on topic, I think I understand what DaBrain was getting at: a very light fog of some kind in the subspace tunnel that is gathered most near the ends and stays there, you can never reach the fog, but it obscures both ends and makes a "distance haze" effect on them. I'm pretty darn sure that's what he meant...
Post by: redsniper on May 07, 2004, 11:18:37 pm
Post by: Trivial Psychic on May 07, 2004, 11:50:25 pm
On another note, when looking at Lightspeed's subspace diagram, it brought to mind of a way to (potentially) alowing a player to play a mission that starts in normal space, enters a subspace corridor, then exits on the other side. It would require a massive pof that is the corridor tunnel in the center, then opens out on either end. It would have to be small enough that the player could concievable fly from one end to the other within the space of a mission. The corridor would actually close on either end, but be made so that ships would fly right through it instead of colliding with it. That way the ship would seem to suddenly jump from subspace, back to normal space. Now there are problems of ships and the model being visible from outside subspace. Either some kind of method would need to be make sure it and anything inside it couldn't be seen or collided with when approached from outside, or have this pof as an object in the ships table file, so that it can be given a departure time, linked to your departure from the corridor. Either that, or just use a series of red-alert missions :D .
Later!
Post by: DaBrain on May 08, 2004, 04:46:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by Gregster2k
Now, back on topic, I think I understand what DaBrain was getting at: a very light fog of some kind in the subspace tunnel that is gathered most near the ends and stays there, you can never reach the fog, but it obscures both ends and makes a "distance haze" effect on them. I'm pretty darn sure that's what he meant...
That's it. And there shouldn'd be any visible edges.
And it shouldn't look weird also. This no nebula, it won't move or something.
I could create textures for it. But everybody else can do it too.
The best way (I think) is to use 1 color maps. From bright to dark-blue.
And I'm with Trivial Psychic in this one. I like the idea of energy clouds, and a lightningstorm would be great.
Post by: Sandwich on May 08, 2004, 06:06:04 am
1) Where's the multiple-layer subspace model? I wanna have an impression of DEPTH when I peer through the first (innermost) layer of effects.
2) Coders, what's the chances of adding in a couple of flags to control lightning in subspace? There are 2 kinds - one is the surface-skittering electricity you get when a ship is badly damaged, and the other is the EMP nebula lightning. Both those would look awesome in subspace IMO.
Post by: Lightspeed on May 08, 2004, 07:24:56 am
This is the latest version of it.
And....
Here is the release (http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/ZMW02download.html)
I will keep working on it, but I think it's good enough for a release (and I dont want to keep you waiting :) )
Post by: Lightspeed on May 08, 2004, 07:48:46 am
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/screenshots/subspace/subspace12.jpg)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/screenshots/subspace/subspace14.jpg)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/screenshots/subspace/subspace13.jpg)
Post by: DaBrain on May 08, 2004, 07:49:14 am
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040508/1084020300.jpg)
Looks better in screenshots than in-game. The two layers look too seperated...
The stock one is much better in this point.
Post by: Lightspeed on May 08, 2004, 07:51:57 am
You should have seen the earlier versions - it's *much* better already, I dont even notice it in-game anymore. And eventually i'll manage to fix it completely.
BTW, use the lvlshot tags or resize the screenies. :)
Post by: DaBrain on May 08, 2004, 07:58:49 am
Perhaps some rays on the outer layer.
IMHO we won't get around animated layers. (at least one of them)
As soon as this is possible, or as soon somebody assures that this will be possible, I'll start to work on it.
I think I'm getting used to anis.
But that could take quite some time.
Uhm, I don't like lvlshots ;)
Post by: Lightspeed on May 08, 2004, 08:02:24 am
Animated layers would of course, offer more variety, but this is something not possible currently, so... :o
And how the hell am I supposed to merge two models together? 0.o
You know, theres one texture for each model, they are tiling, and the models rotate against each other.
Post by: DaBrain on May 08, 2004, 08:18:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
no problem, Goober will jump at it and lvlshot it anyway :p
Animated layers would of course, offer more variety, but this is something not possible currently, so... :o
And how the hell am I supposed to merge two models together? 0.o
You know, theres one texture for each model, they are tiling, and the models rotate against each other.
Not the models, but parts of the maps.
I also played around with the subspace maps.
I noticed that the layers look too seperated when the maps were too different.
In addition to that, I found out, that the inner layer should have many big-black-spots.
So some bright cloudy maps+smal rays for the inner layer.
And dark-blue cloudy maps+big, less visible rays. For the outer layer.
I succeeded in creating maps that looked not seperated at all.
But they were ugly ;)
(That was the point, I wanted to give them detail at. But then I noticed some hard to fix tiling problems, so I lost my interessed in it.)
Now I'm waiting for the possiblity to animate this stuff.
32 bit anis are not even necessary.
Post by: Sandwich on May 08, 2004, 05:00:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
Not the modles, but parts of the maps.
Turrent.
Post by: Lightspeed on May 08, 2004, 05:18:53 pm
Post by: Sandwich on May 08, 2004, 05:49:00 pm
IMO the subspace tunnel should not be seen as a wall, but as the border between the tunnel and beyind the tunnel. In short, I wanna see depth! ;)
Post by: Drew on May 08, 2004, 06:41:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
You should have seen the earlier versions - it's *much* better already, I dont even notice it in-game anymore. And eventually i'll manage to fix it completely.
would you mind on making it look nice while your at it?
Post by: ShadowDrakken on May 08, 2004, 07:47:54 pm
Post by: Turambar on May 08, 2004, 07:52:12 pm
Post by: Taristin on May 08, 2004, 08:00:57 pm
Is subspace?
Post by: ShadowDrakken on May 08, 2004, 08:02:12 pm
I've always thought of it as sort of a dimension sitting inside our own since that's how it's typically portayed in movies and games (whether that the "science" they use behind it or not)
Post by: StratComm on May 08, 2004, 08:43:12 pm
Anyway, I don't see why everyone is so big on bashing LS's subspace maps. I think they look pretty good, there are some issues with the way the patterns interact (the overall brightness levels should remain fairly consistant as different parts of the maps overlap) but nothing too serious. If you don't like the effect, don't use it, but saying that it looks bad isn't accurate.
Oh, and we still need a higher-poly subspace pof. It doesn't need a lot of sections along its length, but the tube needs to have at least twice as many sides. The bends are as plain as day with those maps.
Post by: Langy on May 08, 2004, 09:21:07 pm
Post by: StratComm on May 08, 2004, 11:20:31 pm
Post by: Lightspeed on May 09, 2004, 08:40:56 am
Post by: Taristin on May 09, 2004, 08:47:19 am
Post by: KARMA on May 18, 2004, 06:20:51 am
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Theater/1991/hyperspace_tunnel.html
http://www.theforce.net/theater/software/animaster/litspeed/part4.shtml
Post by: JarC on May 18, 2004, 08:30:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrainhmmmm....I think I get what you are hinting at...correct me if I am wrong...the glowpoints on the subspacemodel textured with one of the thruster ANI's and (in FRED?) placing three nebula backgrounds at different intervals but near enough to the glowpoints so you would not be able to get into them...and then it's hoping they will intersect with the subspace model at the desired position to give the 'foggy' effect?
Here is my idea:
http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040507/1083956277.jpg
Post by: DaBrain on May 18, 2004, 08:45:00 am
The additional thrustermaps are static, as they are on thrusterpoints.
The glowpoints are used as particles in the tunnel, which fly in the same direction as the tunnel turns.
I'd place them on the bigger model.
And never use thrustermaps for this. I'd create a new map for this one. (Perhaps even different maps. Might look better...)
The use of anis is a good idea.
Post by: Woolie Wool on May 18, 2004, 01:53:14 pm