Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: jdjtcagle on May 14, 2004, 11:34:05 pm
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Link (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,12016.0.html)
Huh?
Why did it never get started, it looks interesting
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The sheer size of the project... Animating isn't easy at all, especially at such a large scale...
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well......ya could just FRED the entire thing....by the time the mission is completed, the SCP will look > FS2 cutscene quality i think.....
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no don't fred - until there are cockpits :nod:
It just seemed like to me that they agreed on doing it and strayed away from the whole thing :lol:
But, It would've been cool
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Link (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,12016.0.html)
Huh?
Why did it never get started, it looks interesting
Because we don't have tens of millions of dollars floating around to make a movie.
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this looked like it would have been good, publicity-wise as well
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Ok, you guys make a movie and render it. :p
It's hard enough trying to write it. I tried and I got about 3 pages into it :p :D
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neither did the makers of 'The Blair Witch' ...I kinda like the idea...but it will take heaps of time, that's fer sure...and who knows...Wing Commander became a movie too...(which ofcourse only the die hard fans liked)...and for a prelim trial we don't need to render a thing (ever see 'the Seal of Nehara' ? )
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Because we don't have tens of millions of dollars floating around to make a movie.
Woolies got a point!
And this movie idea isn't going to happen anytime soon, even once the SCP has placed cockpits in FRED2... its something thats larger than any mod to date.
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Originally posted by JarC
neither did the makers of 'The Blair Witch' ...I kinda like the idea...but it will take heaps of time, that's fer sure...and who knows...Wing Commander became a movie too...(which ofcourse only the die hard fans liked)...and for a prelim trial we don't need to render a thing (ever see 'the Seal of Nehara' ? )
The Blair Witch Project's budget was almost certainly at least in the six figures. Movies are unbelievably expensive, especially sci-fi movies with loads of special effects like an FS movie would have. Besides, the FS storyline is much more suited to a TV series than a movie.
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Nonsense. You could write an award winning movie to The Great War.
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...but maybe using CG and/or hand drawn animation could lower the costs more than what they cost themselves.
You wouldn't have to pay all the big stars - very good voiceactors don't cost as much -, there wouldn't be a problem with the integration of the space graphics into the show.
For reference check out Macross Zero.
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Something on the scale of Star Wreck over at http://www.starwreck.com/ will be nice.
Star Wreck is a Finnish fan-made series (with English subs) spoofing Star Trek. :lol:
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
Nonsense. You could write an award winning movie to The Great War.
It wouldn't be as good as a TV series because you would have to cut out quite a bit of the game to turn it into a <3-hour movie.
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You have no idea how hard it is to write an FS movie. I've tried, I got to about the fourth page where I realized that I wasn't writing an FS movie at all! :D
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Ill take the bait: what were you writing?
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A -not- FreeSpace movie?
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It's also a question of logistics, some people are going to be using Max, others are going to be using Lightwave, it would take some clever administration. Not to mention swapping models and things, different rendering styles etc. You'd have to agree something like 'All indoor scenes are done on Max, all space scenes are done by Lightwave users etc', which would be hell, trust me ;)
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Still, it'd be hella cool.
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I'm getting a 3ds Max on the way, when I do, then I would love to do it
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Well, I think the struggle would be to find organic animators, a lot of the FS2 (and a lot of the FS1) cutscenes are actually very carefully angled and shot so that the charactera don't have to do things like walk etc, this is a common technique in computer animation. If you've ever played with bones and organic motion, you'd know why ;) The masks on the Pilot helmets are an extremely clever example of avioding work :) The simple preparation of props would be a very long, though fun, process.
But hey, once the SCP is finished, I guess we gotta have some excuse to hang around ;) hehehehehe
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Hehehe.......soo true ;)
im willing to help in hte writing bit if not the actual graphics stuff.......can think of some ideas at the least :p
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Originally posted by [$$$] Money
Something on the scale of Star Wreck over at http://www.starwreck.com/ will be nice.
Star Wreck is a Finnish fan-made series (with English subs) spoofing Star Trek. :lol:
:lol: I'm still hanging out for SW6. ;)
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I could help writing the plot / storylines. :)
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i think it's a good idea.
it's not like you bastards have anything better to do anyway :P :D ;)
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Only problem is one thing, and I ran into this when I tried writing it. The FS storyline is completely ship-based, there is absolutely zero REAL plot development that happens on-board a ship (with the exception of the commander on the Riviera in Ross 128. Even Hall Fight had no actual significance to the story at large). That means you're going to have to get real creative with the action to keep it from getting dull and repetitive. Wing Commander did a good job at this (even though everything else sucked), by having barely any space combat. Although the WC movie was helped in the fact that there was already a lot of characters in the WC universe (with the exception of Petrach, Snipes, a few others and "Command" there are none in FS2).
This means that you would have to at least significantly change various portions of the FS storyline to fit a movie format. This would lead to some odd contradictions with the fan base, which would be weird, considering the fan base is making the movie.
That's my $.02.
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Not neccesarily. You'd have to cut bits out, but it could be "pilotized". See the Rogue Squadron series of books for inspiration. Obviously we couldn't have that much human interaction, but it could be done - perhaps following the POV of one of the other squadrons aboard the Aquitaine, getting information about the (utterly) critical parts of Alpha 1s missions via other channels... it could be done. It'd just need many, many more resources (ie. Time, coordination, willing animators/writers/voiceactors etc. etc.) than we as a community have to offer. There is a reason why movies cost so much after all ;).
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Originally posted by Flipside
But hey, once the SCP is finished, I guess we gotta have some excuse to hang around ;) hehehehehe
Sorry, just can't resist. What do you mean, finished?
:lol:
That said, a movie would have to redo the plot anyway, so why not keep the overall story arc - the Vasudans and Shivans (FS1) or NTF and Shivans (FS2) would be the "bad guys," and you'd see things from a more fleet perspective than you ever do from the eyes of alpha 1. Make a character who's a fighter pilot, but like Wedge in Star Wars, who also has a role on a grander scale. FS pilots are pawns, and would never make good central characters if the war is important to the plot.
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he meant when the SCP is finished then we'll need something else to do
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Well, the thing is that, at the moment, we have 'Background' only for the story, the player in FS isn't the centre of the story by a long long way, they are just involved in it. The closest you get to being part of the 'Big Story' is when they take down the Lucifer, and you are part of the squad that does it.
So what would be needed first is a 'person level' story to weave into the 'World level' story. Possibly something along the lines of the 'BattleStar Galactica' approach could be taken here, a small group of pilots fighting an enemy that outguns and outnumbers them. FS1 imho did a far far better job of capturing the desperation of the whole situation.
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That's because the situation never gets as desperate in FS2.
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Remember our hero (heroine) is named Alpha 1 and that's it! Mr (ms) generic charcter who has to survive every mission till the end of the movie. If no sequel is planned you can then engineer an ironic death. (IE) Saved the Earth from the Shivan hordes, but chokes to death on a chicken ball at the victory party.
One final suggestion.. NUDE SCENES! You got to have one bi-gender SST type shower scene. I always liked Vasquez in A2 when they wake up and share the locker room (She can watch my backside anytime!) ;7
I don't find vasudans particularly attractive so PLEASE no fish heads in the shower! ;)
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Vasudans probably don't bath with water - they come from a desert planet.
I don't like the good guys / bad guys setup - IMHO FS was about the lack of such polarity, so in fact an extremly terrible war was fought for 14 years without any valid reason a true loving person would accept.
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Bah. Make it simple:
Command [a token black guy]: Go kill 'em bastards, people And remember - come back alive!
Alpha wing: HOAAH!
[insert horrible space battle here, also dramatic music]
Alpha 2: *dies*
Alpha 1: Oh noes! My [oldest friend/cousin/brother/girlfriend/whatev] from [backwater system]! I swear revenge!
[more horrible combat]
Command: I must now personally lead the assault! [blah blah blah, something that makes him arrive. Make it cheesy.]
Alpha 1: No! They will kill you until you die! Stay back!
Command: *dies* while finally striking a final blow to enemy.
Alpha 1: This is alpha 1... taking command of Terran fleet. Let's go home, boys and girls.
Alpha squad: HOAAH!
fin.
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
That's because the situation never gets as desperate in FS2.
It was, just we didn't realise it till the last 3 missions ;)
I've always thought the Shivans were playing some kind of Galactic version of Descent, it's just the Ancients could never get past the level 1 boss ;)
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We could make a story about a marine, that nows alpha 1... Because there is always need for marines in Fs2.
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The plot will NOT be about Alpha one period. That would be boring.
What you should do is keep the plot on a group of persons, possible with some emotional elements, and focus it more on the different situations during the FS1 plot rather than the actual 'action' itself.
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Anyone........remember Kappa wing?
Nothing was specified about what happened to the entire wing. Only one survivor made it to the Aquitaine, but what about the others? A movie starting with one of the pilots of Kappa wing (they are onboard the Aquitaine, so we can have involvement with Alpha 1 as well) would be quite usefull in tying things up with the main storyline........
Edit;
unless we're dealing with a FS1 movie. I was thinking of an FS2 movie, sorry.
If you ARE thinking of FS1...how about a character that works onboard whatever ship you're on. Can be anyone, from the Captain to maybe the driver......just need a story-arc that fits in with the main campaign, or at least remains some contact with Alpha 1. (maybe one of the pilots covering their entry into Subspace?)
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
The plot will NOT be about Alpha one period. That would be boring.
Oh. Righto. Lightspeed has decided the movie that probably wont be made will not be about Alpha 1. Period. Guess we'd all better go back to the drawing board then hey fellas?
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Alpha 1 movie would be really boring. Outsiders are not interested, and players would have some of their gaming fun ruined because, you know, it requires Alpha 1 to be a person. If not, then the entire movie would be a movie version of FS2 campaign.
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But guys, think about what you're saying: you want to make a movie about someone OTHER than the main character in the games (YOU!). Wouldn't it be kind of...um...not Freespace if there wasn't an Alpha 1?
And herein lies the problem: You have to take a 1D character + his interactions with other 1D characters, and make it into a full-length movie. It's REALLY HARD.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Wouldn't it be kind of...um...not Freespace if there wasn't an Alpha 1?
Um, no?
Freespace = Terrans and Vasudans and Shivans. Alpha 1 is not central to the story; hell, they're different people in FS1 and FS2.
Freespace has always been about the epic conflicts of those three species, not about the personal trials and tribulations of the player's avatar. That's why Alpha 1 is one dimensional.
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Originally posted by Singh
Anyone........remember Kappa wing?
Nothing was specified about what happened to the entire wing. Only one survivor made it to the Aquitaine, but what about the others? A movie starting with one of the pilots of Kappa wing (they are onboard the Aquitaine, so we can have involvement with Alpha 1 as well) would be quite usefull in tying things up with the main storyline........
Edit;
unless we're dealing with a FS1 movie. I was thinking of an FS2 movie, sorry.
If you ARE thinking of FS1...how about a character that works onboard whatever ship you're on. Can be anyone, from the Captain to maybe the driver......just need a story-arc that fits in with the main campaign, or at least remains some contact with Alpha 1. (maybe one of the pilots covering their entry into Subspace?)
Kappa wing disapeard and then that one survivor reapeared like a few week later. which could be a very interesting story
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Originally posted by Blaise Russel
Um, no?
Freespace = Terrans and Vasudans and Shivans. Alpha 1 is not central to the story; hell, they're different people in FS1 and FS2.
Freespace has always been about the epic conflicts of those three species, not about the personal trials and tribulations of the player's avatar. That's why Alpha 1 is one dimensional.
Um, yes. Where does all the storyline happen? Around Alpha 1. Where does all the real important action take place? Around Alpha 1. Who is the protaganist of the whole damn thing? Alpha 1. Who...do you get my point?
Alpha 1 would need to be a central character because the game (hence, the storyline) REVOLVES around him.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Um, yes. Where does all the storyline happen? Around Alpha 1. Where does all the real important action take place? Around Alpha 1. Who is the protaganist of the whole damn thing? Alpha 1. Who...do you get my point?
Alpha 1 would need to be a central character because the game (hence, the storyline) REVOLVES around him.
Oh, yes, I see.
Bosch started the Neo-Terran Front because of Alpha 1.
Bosch sent the Trinity through the Knossos portal because of Alpha 1.
The Shivans invaded Gamma Draconis because of Alpha 1.
Bosch fled NTF space to the nebula beyond the portal because of Alpha 1.
The Sathanas attacked Capella because of Alpha 1.
Bosch used ETAK to communicate with the Shivans because of Alpha 1.
The Sathanas fleet destroyed the Capella star by making it go nova because of Alpha 1.
Yes, Alpha 1 is indeed critical to Freespace. Obviously, all this stuff happens because of him. He saves Sol from the Lucifer single-handedly, after all - Delta wing and all those other people who, like, discovered the Ancient ruins and figured out inter-system fighter jump drives, did nothing! Striding like a Colossus across the heavens, he both initiates all of the conflicts in the Freespace universe and solves them! Truly the Great Preserver as well as the Great Destroyer!
Alpha 1 is hardly the protagonist. The GTA and GTVA are the protagonists, but not Alpha 1. He's just a lackey. Furthermore, he's not even a special lackey - his place could be taken by anyone. The only reason he's involved in so much stuff is because it would be boring for all these cool things to happen, but since the player is a security guard protecting a Wolf 359 supply depot, he never gets to see them.
The only reason Alpha 1 is special is because he's the player's avatar, but as there's no player in a movie, Alpha 1 is not special and is not necessary.
No, really. Write the plot out for FS1 or FS2. Not a mission synopsis, but like you was writing a history of WW1 or WW2. Do you need to mention the amorphous non-character that is Alpha 1? No. Do you need to mention Command deciding to deploy the Colossus against the Sathanas in Capella? Yes.
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What he was trying to say was He's witnessed most of it
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Originally posted by Blaise Russel
Bosch started the Neo-Terran Front because of Alpha 1.
Bosch sent the Trinity through the Knossos portal because of Alpha 1.
The Shivans invaded Gamma Draconis because of Alpha 1.
Bosch fled NTF space to the nebula beyond the portal because of Alpha 1.
The Sathanas attacked Capella because of Alpha 1.
Bosch used ETAK to communicate with the Shivans because of Alpha 1.
The Sathanas fleet destroyed the Capella star by making it go nova because of Alpha 1.
So, basically, if we're going to do it like you say, then we should make a movie about Bosch and possibly Carl's half-brother Bob?
Basically, like jd said, Alpha 1 has witnessed all of this, and, therefore, it would be through his VIEWPOINT that we show it(both during the game and the movie).
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But he's only Alpha 1 when he's actually in his ship. If you are going to do the story of Freespace as a load of ships flying around, why not play the campaign instead?
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That's why it should be a marine
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Basically, like jd said, Alpha 1 has witnessed all of this, and, therefore, it would be through his VIEWPOINT that we show it(both during the game and the movie).
And that would make a **** movie.
Alpha 1 has no character - hell, he doesn't even have a name. What's there to make a movie about?
It would make a lot more sense to centre the movie around somebody else who actually DOES something. You can't make a movie according to the rules of computer games, it just doesn't make sense; you can't have the main character of a movie be the main character of a game like Alpha 1 because there's nothing to Alpha 1 but a name!
I have yet to see a reason why it should be centred around Alpha 1 other than 'that's how the game did it'. Guess what? This is a Freespace movie, not a Freespace game.
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Ok, I'm through talking about it. Does anybody have any models??
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B.R.'s post are the exact reflection of my thoughts on this thread. :nod:
And BlackWolf gets a big nice :rolleyes: from me :)
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Originally posted by Blaise Russel
Oh, yes, I see.
Bosch started the Neo-Terran Front because of Alpha 1.
Bosch sent the Trinity through the Knossos portal because of Alpha 1.
The Shivans invaded Gamma Draconis because of Alpha 1.
Bosch fled NTF space to the nebula beyond the portal because of Alpha 1.
The Sathanas attacked Capella because of Alpha 1.
Bosch used ETAK to communicate with the Shivans because of Alpha 1.
The Sathanas fleet destroyed the Capella star by making it go nova because of Alpha 1.
You know.......this all gives me ideas, and can be easily connected to a single (yet horribly HORRIBLY unlucky) character that doesn't need to be Alpha 1......who says that Alpha 1 could be the only agent inside the NTF? Could Kappa 1 have really been on just a routine patrol mission? What about other NTF ships inside the nebula? Oh god, the possibilities! :D
*goes off to plot...mwhahahahahahahahaha.
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
That's why it should be a marine
Yea, that's what I ended up writing. But if Freespace is about ship to ship combat, then why are we doing it about marines?
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Freespace the computer game is about ship-ship combat, Freespace the story included Marines, Pilots, Rank officers, civilians etc. At least, in my opinion :)
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Oooo... the possiblilties :nod:
But, we are going to have problems. This isn't star trek so if your writing it, there are no energy beings, no teleporting, no incredibly smart robots. Try to keep it modern, but in a futuristic kind of way.
EDIT: Very important, colonies in the GTVA were mostly space based and there were probably few planets able to support life, unless it was a small populated mining colony. But most Civilian planets would most likely be
SOL:
Major: Earth, Mars, Europa
Mining/Minor: Moon, any planet with rings, asteroids, Deimos, Phobos.
Other Systems with Major Colonies: Ross 128, Ribos, Beta Aquilia,(I think Delta Serpentis was probally just a system with Minor and lead to other key systems.) Capella, Sirrius and Polaris
So when making the story, try to keep it believable on planets, moons, or asteroids.
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
I think Delta Serpentis was probally just a system with Minor and lead to other key systems.
DS became the terran capital so I think you'd be wrong there.
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Oh, yea... I thought it was Beta Aquilia was the capital for some reason. Probably because of Beta Aquilia treaty deal , BETAC, I think. Thanks for reminding me :)
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*BUMP*
Ok, I got 3ds Max and going through alot of tutorials... does someone have any models??? Come on Nico, share the Shivan :D
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Check his siggy, I think it's available to download from there :D
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Ahh.. yes I got a shivan... and now for a pilot and a Vasudan, I wonder if you can still get Bob's Vasudan
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Teaser :D
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5539/Shivan.jpg)
Its actually alot better than this, but it's a JPG
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It's flawed. Check up the originals:
(http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/species/svm0001.jpg)
Look at the proportions of the head compared to the body, for example.
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Well, Veno...err...Nico made it, right?
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so what?
It's still flawed.
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Hmmm... Well, it has to be fixed... Ok, I'll try to do something
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
It's flawed. Check up the originals:
http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/species/svm0001.jpg
Look at the proportions of the head compared to the body, for example.
do not mistakenly take the bulge above its head (which really IS that small) to be part of it, the perspective in that particular image makes it look like it is part of it, but it actually the armouring over the shoulder beam
also, do not overlook the effect of FOV settings in the renderer, the goodies shots are using a wide-angle view, just look at the size of the front claws compared to the hind-claws. Both front and hind claws are actually almost the same size when looking at the hallfight...here the difference is extreme
here's a frontal screenie of the original mesh...
(http://www.descent-freespace.com/goodies/gallery/species/svw0004.gif)