Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Carl on September 08, 2001, 12:07:00 am
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as we all know, when a ship warps in or out it creates a hole into subspace and looking through it you see the inside of subspace: blue and wavy. but what about when you jump out at the knossos? it's green! subspace isn't green, it's blue! it must not be normal subspace. so what is it? maybe, just maybe, the subspace the knossos uses is a special kind of artifical subspace. any thoughts?
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It could be the same subspace, but all that wierd stuff going on about the mechanism of the Knossos could twist stuff around and give it a different colour - at least to viewers.
The question is, what is all that wierd stuff?
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Hmm, that's a puzzler for sure. But if couours = different subspaces, then there are acctually at least three!
From the Freespace Referance Bible regarding the Lucifers arrival during the Tombough Station Attack:
Over her shoulder we see a huge warp tunnel begin to appear. It’s blood red and much larger than any subspace hole’s seen so far. The crew gasps in shock, wondering what it is.
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Well... Teories say that shivans don't need subspace nodes. If so, why not different colors? Kinda of the knossos! It's an artificial subspace node! Why not a different color?
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And by the way... I don't why I put an a after the kind... :P
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Warning!!! P1mp time!!!!
In Caught in the middle you will see a new color (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Any speculation???
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Lavender and pink, I'll bet. With a big picture of Barbara Streisand in the middle (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
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Originally posted by Neon:
It's an artificial subspace node! Why not a different color?
because the node leads into subspace. the blue stuff you see as the node is subspace, so green node=green subspace and since subspace is a dimension then green subspace is a different dimension.
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From the Freespace Referance Bible regarding the Lucifers arrival during the Tombough Station Attack:
Over her shoulder we see a huge warp tunnel begin to appear. It’s blood red and much larger than any subspace hole’s seen so far. The crew gasps in shock, wondering what it is.
but we know from the Ross 128 attack that the Lucifer's node is blue. when it comes to being Canon, the game > the Refrence Bible.
[This message has been edited by Carl (edited 09-08-2001).]
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Originally posted by Carl:
but we know from the Ross 128 attack that the Lucifer's node is blue. when it comes to being Canon, the game > the Refrence Bible.
Well, it's blue in the entire of FS1 too. But it could have used a different drive to generate the red one. Maybe the red drive is the one used when there is no node around, and hence uses more energy to activate, and hence is used less often - meaning when they can use the normal blue one, they will. Two subspace drives.
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cool! so there are 3 subspaces! possibly many more. perhaps an infinite amout.
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Who knows? Shivan's are way too misterious! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/mad.gif)
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Could you jump into sub-subspace? As in a subspace inside subspace?
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Originally posted by YodaSean:
Could you jump into sub-subspace? As in a subspace inside subspace?
You wouldn't be able to jump into a subspace of a subspace, but you could jump from one subspace to another subspace theoretically.
However, we used to think atoms were the smallest things, but then we discovered sub-atomic particles. So maybe their could be a sub-subspace.
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Sub-subspace... now we're talking about something that advanced races would use. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Setekh:
Sub-subspace... now we're talking about something that advanced races would use. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
hum, yup, but what for? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
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I've always believed that as the GTVA's technology advanced they would find new and better (or worse, depending on how you look at it) ways to use and manipulate subspace.
Among other things, a "sub-subspace" might offer even faster travel within "normal subspace". A jump from Delta S. to Sol takes approximately 10 minutes which are spent inside a subspace corridor. Imagine entering an underlying layer of "sub-subspace" to go even faster. Yeah, I know, it's a wild and ridiculous sounding idea, but I never said I was a scientist. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Another thing subspace could be used for is wanton destruction. If the GTVA could somehow harness the power of subspace in such a way that they could open a subspace jump node by remote, at a predetermined location, it could cause chaos in enemy lines. Imagine a specially modified Hades warship, equipped with some impressive, top secret subspace device that could rip open subspace wherever it wanted to. Suppose it targeted the center of mass of an Orion-class destroyer and opened a subspace node right in the middle of it. A subspace node no different than those ships use to commence regular jumps, only without a ship jumping into it. If used correctly, it could be more devestating than all the beam weapons on the Colossus combined. Or, if you wanted to go for superdestruction, how about opening multiple doors to subspace inside a star. It's quite possible it would substantually alter the mass of the star in question, maybe even going as far as to destablize it. The impilcations of such a horrendous event would be catastrophic for the inhabitants of the system.
Oh, and on a side note, I find this (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/inferno/headz.gif) to be quite disgusting.
Just kidding. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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In 'The Ghost and the Darkness', I had the idea that intense gravity fields could be used to prevent subspace nodes forming except where Knossos-type devices have been used, and that similar tech could be used to create a gravity based beam that could stabilise nodes, collapse existing ones (stretching the affected ships through several light years of subspace corridor)...
this was all supposed to have originated from the destruction of a Shivan super destroyer that could create and hold nodes using it's own beam cannon 10 years earlier...
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Well, sub-subspace - yes, it would make travel even faster. Travelling through subspace allows ships to bypass a huge amount of normal space. Similarly, travelling through sub-subspace would allow ships to bypass huge amounts of subspace - resulting in faster travel. So you'd probably jump into subspace and from there, jump into sub-subspace.
Man, we really need a new name for sub-subspace. Infraspace? (That is just another word for sub in latin.) Or valdesubspace - valde (pronounced volder) means powerful, or very. Veespace...
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Originally posted by Slasher:
Or, if you wanted to go for superdestruction, how about opening multiple doors to subspace inside a star. It's quite possible it would substantually alter the mass of the star in question, maybe even going as far as to destablize it. The impilcations of such a horrendous event would be catastrophic for the inhabitants of the system.
Actually, this is a pretty cool idea. I think the Stargate team used it - they opened a wormhole to some place and then sent a Stargate (from a Goa'uld warship) into a star.
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Actually, I think intense gravity helps generate nodes, rather than prevent them. Opening a node in a star... would destroy the node, that's about all, me think. After all some meson bombs are enough, so the core of a star...
The plot of my campaign is a lotabout subsapce, its use and the problems that may occur. You'll see subspace plants, for exemple (orbital energy supply for ground based structures -underground cities maybe).
For the problems, well... Some are quite apocalyptic (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Slasher:
how about opening multiple doors to subspace inside a star. It's quite possible it would substantually alter the mass of the star in question, maybe even going as far as to destablize it.
that's probably what the Sathanus fleet did to Capella.
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Originally posted by Slasher:
Oh, and on a side note, I find this (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/inferno/headz.gif) to be quite disgusting.
another one of Forum Nomad's many FS based smilies.
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Originally posted by Carl:
that's probably what the Sathanus fleet did to Capella.
Damn... now there's an idea....
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Originally posted by venom2506:
Opening a node in a star... would destroy the node, that's about all, me think. After all some meson bombs are enough, so the core of a star...
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I doubt the Sathanas fleet tried to open up a node in the center of the Capellan star. But I won't back that nor say what I think, for reasons which will be made know in the future... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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P111111111111111mp...
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[This message has been edited by Setekh (edited 09-21-2001).]
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Originally posted by Carl:
that's probably what the Sathanus fleet did to Capella.
So what was all that green stuff they made then?
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Originally posted by Culloden:
So what was all that green stuff they made then?
uuh...a distorsion field.
Dunno (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Slasher:
Imagine a specially modified Hades warship, equipped with some impressive, top secret subspace device that could rip open subspace wherever it wanted to.
This is acually a central theme in a campain idea i have. The portal into subspace appears red because of the fact that it is extremly un-natural. Got the color to work, but can't get the opening itself to work the way I want it to.
I wasn't planning on using them as weapons however. That is an interesting idea.
edit: And it wasn't going to be a Hades.
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Bobby (Akrovah) Hovorka
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"The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shap of that future, or where it will take us. We only know, that it is always born in pain." -- G'Quon - Babylon 5
[This message has been edited by Akrovah (edited 10-26-2001).]
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Here is how I believe a Knossos works:
A jump point is a collection of [some sort of molecules, energy...?]. This collection is higher than normal space, which is why vessels can travel much farther with jump nodes than in normal space. Each node is linked in some way (perhaps the polarity of the energy, type of molecules?). However, as ships move through these collections of [energy/molecules] they distort them, causing them to dissipate. While the collections dissipate on their own, these disturbances accelerate the process further, meaning that if a large enough disturbance was created, i.e. a destroyer exploding, the pressure would further dissipate the particles, thus making the [molecules/energy] degrade close to the normal levels of [molecules energy;subspace particles?]. This means that the jump node is no longer a jump node, though still linked to its counterpart, which will also be disspated (since they are linked). Any ships that enter these "collapsed" jump nodes will also dissipate, resulting in the loss of all hands, meaning that these nodes are generally avoided. Shivan vessels may be able to travel through these nodes because there subspace drives are more powerful or can temporarily coalesce the nodes enough to stabilize them for transit. A Knossos usues a more advanced technique to coalesce these more permanently. It does this by emitting some sort of energy and using its rotation to draw the subspace particles together in the center, while still emitting the special energy. While emitting this energy, a subspace portal's color may be redshifted due to the larger wavelength from the higher energy in the portal. A side effect of a Knossos is that the higher energy normally results in a more stable tunnel; therefore lower-power subspace drives can be used, and explosions are not as damaging to the portal, though they may cause a feedback surge to the Knossos itself. Also, only one Knossos is needed, since the Subspace particles mirror each other.
I did that a while back on the VBB, but I just registered here a few days ago
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Sub-space nodes are only areas of truespace effected by gravitational forces which are more "close" to sub-space.
There is most likely a thin lid of "realspace" over a node, which is why it takes science vessels such as the Faustus to detect new nodes.
Since when every ship jumps into sub-space you create your own corridor, technically you *can* open a node when already in a jump, it creates a new corridor to reach your final destination... (so when the Lucifer was going down, if it detonated entirely in the node, Alpha wing could have jumped out if they had intersystem drives, but still would have been destroyed since when a node cataclysm occurs all possible "jump frequencies" are eliminated)
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Ace
Staff member FreeSpace Watch
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/ ("http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/")
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Originally Posted by aldo_14In 'The Ghost and the Darkness', I had the idea that intense gravity fields could be used to prevent subspace nodes forming except where Knossos-type devices have been used
Sort of like Star Wars' Interdictor Cruiser - By simulating a planetary sized mass, it prevents hyperspace jumps. This could drop ships out of hyperspace, or prevent them from leaving.
In a FS context, this, combined with a little other subspace tech could become quite effective.
For example, Earth to Delta Serpentis, I dunno the exact distance, but let's say 4 light years.
If you could find a way to drop one of these ships 2 light years from Earth, you could strand entire fleets. I mean, how long would it take to go two light years without a convenient node?
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'Reality is the Playground for the unimaginative'
Member of the Tema Al Diablo ("http://tema_al_diablo.tripod.com") creation team.
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Originally posted by Carl:
cool! so there are 3 subspaces! possibly many more. perhaps an infinite amout.
Well, depending on how deep the colour pallette in FS2 is...
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'Reality is the Playground for the unimaginative'
Member of the Tema Al Diablo ("http://tema_al_diablo.tripod.com") creation team.
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Collapsing a node would likely destroy the ships inside, not strand them somewhere.
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Originally posted by venom2506:
Actually, I think intense gravity helps generate nodes, rather than prevent them. Opening a node in a star... would destroy the node, that's about all, me think. After all some meson bombs are enough, so the core of a star...
Ahh...... but remember the meson bombs exploded when the Bastion was at least partially in subspace. A subspace node itself doesn't seem to have much interaction with realspace, and vice versa.
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Originally posted by Shrike:
Collapsing a node would likely destroy the ships inside, not strand them somewhere.
Nyarlohotep? Or however you spell it? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Setekh:
Nyarlohotep? Or however you spell it? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Nyarlathotep I think, one of Lovecraft's favourites (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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I didn't mean collapsing the node. I meant dropping the ship using the node back into realspace, lightyears from any nodes. Therefore, no intrasystem or intersystem jumps, they'd be stranded on sublight drives millenia away from anything. You wouldn't have to colllapse the node, just find a way to force a ship out of it. Blow it's subspace drive, or something.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf:
I didn't mean collapsing the node. I meant dropping the ship using the node back into realspace, lightyears from any nodes. Therefore, no intrasystem or intersystem jumps, they'd be stranded on sublight drives millenia away from anything. You wouldn't have to colllapse the node, just find a way to force a ship out of it. Blow it's subspace drive, or something.
I think that would do nothing. when you're in subspace, you're in. imagine you are walking (subspace drive). you go through a door, close it, and you're then in another room. If someone cut your legs, you won't be ejected back in the first room I think. Don't forget subaspace is not a corridor trhough our universe, but another dimension.
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Originally posted by Carl:
cool! so there are 3 subspaces! possibly many more. perhaps an infinite amout.
It can be whatever color your cocpit glass is. Looking through an Ares might make it orange. :roleyes:
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Originally posted by Raa Tor'h:
It can be whatever color your cocpit glass is. Looking through an Ares might make it orange. :roleyes:
ever heard about the exernal view in FS2? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/rolleyes.gif)
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Subspace drives oscillate the ship at a subspace frequency. Different species = different frequency = different affects on the light from susbspace.
And subspace is blue regardless of species. As evidenced in the last mission of FS1.
What ever happened to that fire-subspace thingy?
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"I'm huntin' wabbits"----Elmer Fudd
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Originally posted by an0n:
Subspace drives oscillate the ship at a subspace frequency. Different species = different frequency = different affects on the light from susbspace.
And subspace is blue regardless of species. As evidenced in the last mission of FS1.
What ever happened to that fire-subspace thingy?
no: subspace need a frequency, the subspace engine needs to align with that frequency, so all species use the same.
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Originally posted by Raa Tor'h:
Looking through an Ares might make it orange. :roleyes:
Hey Raa, you ever flown an Ares before? Ever noticed how everything doesn't turn orange? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
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Originally posted by Setekh:
Hey Raa, you ever flown an Ares before? Ever noticed how everything doesn't turn orange? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
Well, appart from that time I got a Shivan splattered on the cockpit, no...
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Originally posted by Setekh:
Sub-subspace... now we're talking about something that advanced races would use. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
Originally posted by venom2506:
hum, yup, but what for? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
intergalatic jumps
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Originally posted by Kazan:
intergalatic jumps
Now you're thinking. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
Just like the Eighth Glyph on the Stargate. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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The Asguard r0Xors my boX0rz.
They rool. They shoulda been in that "Tolan Gettin' Massacred" episode.
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The Asgard do rock. But you know who else does? The replicators. Have you seen how friggin' huge those things can get? Like the reactor they formed in... oh crap, I forget, but it's before Threshold (where they are rehabilitating Teal'c). Man, scary stuff. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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I thought that the whole replictor story line was a little bit **** . The Asguard could easily have wiped them out by removing transporters from their ships and putting huge cannons on their planets that could detect replicatored ships in space.
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Lol, well, if all else fails... they're good for eye candy (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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Hmmm. You think a show with Amanda Tapping, Teryl Rothery and occassional apperances from a scantily clad Vanessa Angel trying to get nekkid with R.D.A needs more eye-candy?!?
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Originally posted by an0n:
I thought that the whole replictor story line was a little bit **** . The Asguard could easily have wiped them out by removing transporters from their ships and putting huge cannons on their planets that could detect replicatored ships in space.
Like Thor said, that's not how the Asgard think... it takes a human to say things like "I know! Lets build a bigger gun then them!!"
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Ok, simply a compiliation of theories:
The shivans when they shot sparky things from the front of the sathani were opening a remote portal (that is why they got so dark), and sucked part of the sun into subspace (causing the supernova) but before it went nova, the sathani used the energy in subspace to create a supertunnel that would carry them to their final destination (home planet? geneticaly encoded goal?). Maybe there was something special about capella that made it one of the few stars that could do that.
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-Analazon
Creator of the mod that will not be coming for a while
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meh thinks Shivans transported capella star to their homespace so they could build another Lucifer and wipeout humanity...
He if it works in theory I want you to hold the matches
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wazza point? sathani have at least a 3x the firepower of a luci, if not more
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-Analazon
Creator of the mod that will not be coming for a while
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Originally posted by Bishop Gantry:
meh thinks Shivans transported capella star to their
Capella is the name of the star. It's just "Capella".
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