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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: CP5670 on August 11, 2007, 06:31:16 pm

Title: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: CP5670 on August 11, 2007, 06:31:16 pm
I finally finished this game (PC version) after struggling with it for the last two weeks. Here are some thoughts.

Gameplay: The stealth action is fun, but heavily dumbed down from the previous SC games. Chaos Theory's elaborate light and sound meters have been replaced by a glowing circle that is either green (invisible) or yellow (visible), and sometimes does not even correlate with the actual light level that is visible. You don't get the night vision goggles in many levels and there is no health meter (your health recharges). The level design is a mixed bag. Some levels are outstanding while others are pretty mediocre. Apart from the JBA levels, it's somewhat linear compared to CT, although not overly so. The much-hyped trust system is interesting but doesn't play any serious part in the game until near the end.

Story: Pretty interesting and certainly above average, but has some plotholes and generally lacks the depth of what the previous games had. There is only one story-related cutscene in the entire game, and a lot of things near the end are not fleshed out well. There are three endings, although I only had the patience to go through one (see below).

Stability: Atrocious. The sheer number of bugs in this game defies belief. Sporadically crashes for no reason throughout the game, and it seems to be impossible to complete it at all without using various workarounds. At one point, the game was crashing every time I ran into a (mandatory) autosave checkpoint, and I only got around it by adding the Unreal engine's ghost command into the game's ini files to fly around it. There was another level where fallen enemies came back to life as soon as you stopped looking at them, and one more where loading a savegame caused a crash, so you had to run through it without saving. A look at the Ubi forums indicates that I got rather lucky and most people have encountered much more trouble. Many can't get the game to run at all. Ubi has reportedly dropped support for this game and there will almost certainly be no more patches.

Graphics: A mixed bag. Excellent character models (Fisher's model is probably the best I've seen in any game) and the superb parallax mapping from CT appears in some areas, but other places look like they're from a five year old game. The HDR and shadows are inferior to those in CT. Requires an SM3 card. Very poorly optimized; it looks a bit worse than CT overall but somehow still manages to run at a third of the framerate. I found it choppy but playable at 1024x768 without AA on an X1900XTX.

Audio: Some positional audio glitches, but very good overall. The dynamic music is nicely implemented. I like how the music sharply increases in volume as you creep behind a guy.

Interface: One of the worst examples of consolization I've seen in a long time. I can think of around 15 different glitches in the menus. The various minigames have all kinds of strange control problems and the mouse cursor randomly vanishes in some menus. You can't name savegames and it puts them in a random order in the menu, so you have to rely on the dates/times to identify them. Many of the key mappings inexplicably can't be changed. Makes you watch an unskippable and irritating 30 second movie every time you go into the main menu, although this can be fixed by replacing the movie file.

Multiplayer: Didn't try this, as it seems hardly anyone has actually gotten it working properly.

Overall: 3/10. It has its cool moments and can be fun, but only if you have a lot of patience. It has way too many bugs to be recommended to anyone. A strictly mediocre game by itself, and utter trash in comparison to the highly polished CT.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Hippo on August 11, 2007, 07:25:05 pm
I never finished DA. I got it for the pc after my 12th or so play through of Chaos Theory (way better), but had to reformat before the last mission in the JBA base. It was also running off a 12gb image, so daemon wasnt happy with me and it ran like **** (though maybe getting 0.5 fps is normal if you got similar results). I then bought it for the 360, but I've not been impressed enough by what i got out of it on the pc to bother replaying it.

I've stuck with Chaos Theory, because even after my 12th time through, I still found something new.
Spoiler:
In the beginning of the MCAS bank, you can go in the front door instead of needing to repel through the roof, and once inside the front door, plant one of the emails that i was always 1 short of.


The only console Tom Clancy games i like are Rainbow 6, of which Vegas was top notch.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: CP5670 on August 11, 2007, 11:25:45 pm
Yes, it's funny how bad this game is compared to Chaos Theory, which was the single best game I have played in the last several years. I think it was made by a different development team, which would explain the difference. I hope they get their act together with the next SC game, which is supposed to be designed by the original team.

I generally got 25-40fps during most of the game. Not smooth by any means, but playable.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Hippo on August 12, 2007, 06:03:51 pm
Ah, the performance I got was far worse, but I attribute that to having to run such a large image on only a gig of ram. There's apparently a new SC coming out, I watched a trailer for it on the 360 marketplace, but don't remember much and there was nothing as far as plot info.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Unknown Target on August 12, 2007, 08:14:44 pm
The new SC game sounds interesting, it seems to take a page from the Bourne movies with it's new "crowd stealth" element - i.e. rather than hiding in shadows, the game is about hiding in crowds and trying to disappear in them. Seems like an interesting, if radical, departure from standard SC. IIRC the plot was that after DA, you're
Spoiler:
a rouge agent and being hunted down, so you have to go into hiding much like Bourne.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: phreak on August 12, 2007, 10:01:32 pm
Ubisoft is becoming the next EA.  I got GRAW2 for X360 and I was able to get through most of it on the hardest difficulty without much problems.  Compared to the first Ghost Recon it's much more polished (graphically), but the interface makes it way easier to spot and attack targets.  Also i beat the single player game in 10 hours
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: CP5670 on August 12, 2007, 11:37:09 pm
They have become worse than EA at this point IMO. This game seriously pissed me off unlike anything else I've played in a long time. I must have spent as much time trying to find workarounds for the numerous showstopping bugs as actually playing the game. It could have been a pretty good game (although still a far cry from CT) if it weren't for this.

The new SC game sounds interesting, it seems to take a page from the Bourne movies with it's new "crowd stealth" element - i.e. rather than hiding in shadows, the game is about hiding in crowds and trying to disappear in them. Seems like an interesting, if radical, departure from standard SC. IIRC the plot was that after DA, you're
Spoiler:
a rouge agent and being hunted down, so you have to go into hiding much like Bourne.

The story looks like it might be good. All three endings go the way you described. However, I have heard that they want to remove the traditional SC gameplay based on light and darkness altogether. This would be in line with Ubi's recent track record of dumbing down well-established franchises. And there is also the "hero's instinct" thing, which simply sounds retarded. I thought that was some vandal's joke when I first saw it on wikipedia.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Roanoke on August 13, 2007, 06:19:31 am
This reminds me. I got Pandora Tomorrow circa 3 months ago but have yet to play it.....
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Wobble73 on August 13, 2007, 07:51:08 am
This reminds me. I got Pandora Tomorrow circa 3 months ago but have yet to play it.....

Same here, that and CT and I can't play them as I have no SM2 card (and Prince of Persia Sands of Time)!  :hopping: :mad:
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: CP5670 on August 13, 2007, 10:18:51 am
PT and CT are excellent games, especially CT. They only require SM1.1 cards. Not sure about Sands of Time.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Wobble73 on August 13, 2007, 10:30:17 am
PT and CT are excellent games, especially CT. They only require SM1.1 cards. Not sure about Sands of Time.

I haven't got one of them either:  :(

(For Graphics card read Nvidia Geforce 440MX 64mb. EEwwwww! Or an Intel chip on the laptop, that also doesn't support Shader Modeling, but at least has 128mb dedicated memory!)
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: CP5670 on August 13, 2007, 03:55:06 pm
You can probably get a pretty decent upgrade for $50 or so on ebay.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Deepblue on August 14, 2007, 03:02:00 pm
DA was only a good game for the JBA HQ missions IMO, those were fun and tense. That and the very first mission. Everything else was pretty mediocre.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: CP5670 on August 14, 2007, 03:14:43 pm
Those were also ruined for me by many serious bugs. There is one point where you have to crack a safe in Dufraisne's office behind his back, but he repeatedly kept getting up (with the alert sound) and turning around for no reason. I got past that part by showing myself and actually pushing him out of the room before I opened the safe. In another situation, you had to pick up a body on an examining table, but a patrolling guard had gotten stuck there (was walking in place) and I couldn't access the body because he was in the way. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Deepblue on August 14, 2007, 05:57:37 pm
Didn't experience any of those. (I played on the 360 though)
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: WeatherOp on August 14, 2007, 06:48:34 pm
I loved CT, it was the only game I played that made buying an Xbox worth it.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: spartan_0214 on August 14, 2007, 09:47:27 pm
       Absolutely loved Chaos Theory. The thing that turned me off from Double Agent was the idea of Fisher infiltrating the organization. After reading all three (maybe there's a fourth one out now that I haven't read) books, I was intrigued by the idea that Fisher, as far as the Government is concerned, doesn't exist. That whole idea is blown when he has to infiltrate the organization. I also never liked the idea of having to please two sides. Killing a fellow agent would haunt Fisher until the day he dies. For now, I suppose, I will leave a copy of Double Agent on the shelf and out of my library. I hope to God that the next Splinter Cell game doesn't go into Fisher's past. I like the idea of Fisher's past being obscured, it makes it that much harder to predict what Fisher's going to say or do. And devs, IMHO, have done too much of the "let's go into the past and expose more of the main character." It has finally developed into a cliche that I hope Sam Fisher never has to fall into. Fisher's dark past makes him all that more fun to play in the games.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: CP5670 on August 15, 2007, 12:15:36 am
I think the concept could have been very interesting if they had done it right. The government at large always remains unaware of Fisher's involvement in any undercover operation. DA ends with him as a highly wanted criminal and being chased around by SWAT teams, as he's considered to be a JBA member at that point. They never find out that he just disabled the bombs and saved the city. As for killing a friendly agent, that is one of the choices you can make that affects the ending, although the game barely gives any background on who he is or why he is relevant to the story (and I had lost interest in the story by that point anyway, as it was immediately after the infuriating checkpoint crash I mentioned earlier). I've heard that a lot of story elements are explained in more depth in the Xbox 1/PS2/Wii version, which is apparently a completely different and much better game.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Deepblue on August 15, 2007, 01:13:28 am
Yup. The OXbox version was handled by the same team that did CT, so it's much more of a sequel to that game.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Triple Ace on August 28, 2007, 08:59:07 pm
I don't know if anyone knows this but, the Xbox and PS2 version is completely is a completely different game from the 360, pc, and PS3 version. The story has a few differences, all of the levels are completely different even the ones that are in the same location as the other version. Unlike the next gen version, the old gen PS2 and Xbox version has no daylight levels and plays exactly like Chaos Theory with a couple new small features. The old gen also has a different multiplayer mode. Instead of the Spies vs Mercs mode, it has been changed to Spies vs Spies. Don't ask me how Spies vs Spies plays, I can't get broadband.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Roanoke on August 29, 2007, 03:27:11 pm
You can probably get a pretty decent upgrade for $50 or so on ebay.

examples/suggestions please.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: CP5670 on August 29, 2007, 07:14:56 pm
Quote
I don't know if anyone knows this but, the Xbox and PS2 version is completely is a completely different game from the 360, pc, and PS3 version. The story has a few differences, all of the levels are completely different even the ones that are in the same location as the other version. Unlike the next gen version, the old gen PS2 and Xbox version has no daylight levels and plays exactly like Chaos Theory with a couple new small features. The old gen also has a different multiplayer mode. Instead of the Spies vs Mercs mode, it has been changed to Spies vs Spies. Don't ask me how Spies vs Spies plays, I can't get broadband.

I really wish we had that game on the PC instead of this garbage "next gen" version.

Quote
examples/suggestions please.

A quick check indicates that used 7600GTs go for about that much. It would be around 10x as fast as an MX440. :p
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Roanoke on August 30, 2007, 03:08:24 pm
A used GPU strikes me as a bad idea, especially as new AGPs are super cheap  :doubt:

Thanks for the tip though.

The main problem with Splinter Cell is I usually play games when listening to music and that doesn't really work in stealthy, story-driven games...
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: spartan_0214 on August 30, 2007, 06:52:58 pm
Aww, you mean you don't listen to Breaking Benjamin and the rest of the Halo 2 Vol 1 soundtrack when playing Splinter Cell? Oh man, you don't know what you're missing.. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, I find the music in-game very fitting, albeit a little wierd toward the end of the storyline of Chaos Theory.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: IceFire on August 31, 2007, 05:43:29 pm
So I got Double Agent free with my XBox 360 purchase I just recently made (it also came with Forza Motorsport 2 which I love).  I tried the training scenarios of which I passed the first one eventually and couldn't figure out the solution to the second one.  And I tried the first mission and got destroyed right away.  Damn this is a hard game!
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: spartan_0214 on August 31, 2007, 06:42:13 pm
The SC series has always been hard. It is, however, a game of patience; wait for the pattern to develop, then move when you've got it.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Cobra on August 31, 2007, 07:48:10 pm
In the first and second SC, I'd shoot them all if possible. In CT and DA, I knock just about all of them. Cheap-ass way to finish, but it leaves a 0% chance of being detected on your way out.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 01, 2007, 01:52:07 am
The main problem with Splinter Cell is I usually play games when listening to music and that doesn't really work in stealthy, story-driven games...

Command & Conquer (the first one) has some good tracks for that. :P Rain In The Night and On The Prowl come to mind. Tiberian Sun's Gloom and Dusk Hour do as well.

TRY HARDER! That was about thirty seconds of thought on my part, you need more variety in your collection of tracks. :p
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: CP5670 on September 01, 2007, 10:01:46 am
Quote
In the first and second SC, I'd shoot them all if possible. In CT and DA, I knock just about all of them. Cheap-ass way to finish, but it leaves a 0% chance of being detected on your way out.

I like to grab them from behind in CT, since they all have unique things to say to you and some of their comments are quite amusing. They took a step backwards in DA and made it like the previous games, where only a handful of guys would say anything to you.

As for the music, the SC games have generally had very good music. It's dynamic like FS2 and changes depending on the situation. That was the one thing DA actually got right, as the music is not only excellent but also implemented well. As I mentioned in the first post, the music volume varies depending on how close you are to an enemy, which adds to the tension when you're trying to creep up behind someone.
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Roanoke on September 01, 2007, 12:50:53 pm
I meant I'll put on a CD or the radio then play games. Can't really play Splinter Cell with Artic Monkeys on in the background. Kinda gets in the way....
Title: Re: Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Post by: Cobra on September 01, 2007, 02:34:45 pm
Oh, and Xbox version of DA ftw. No bugs, and plot holes are plugged. ;)