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Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Inferno => Topic started by: DarthWang on April 30, 2008, 11:02:14 pm

Title: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on April 30, 2008, 11:02:14 pm
I know this has probably been brought up many times before, but can I see some screenshots of this thing? Preferably with other ships for size comparison. I couldn't find any on the search.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on April 30, 2008, 11:16:15 pm
Look and be afraid:

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/648/ownedxn9.jpg)

Unfortunately that's the only pic I have. I think there may be more in Inferno R1's credits.

It's not too clear what it's shape is, I know. Picture a supersized Sathanas... then super-size it again. Now turn the claws horizontal and turn inward. Add lots of wicked blades/spikes along the back. You have the Gargant.

As for size, it dwarfs even the Icanus and Gigas. I believe somewhere around 60 klicks in length.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 01, 2008, 03:37:07 am
Aproximately 45km

Here, I have a better quality picture of it.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Titan on May 01, 2008, 07:02:25 am
D***!  :shaking:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 01, 2008, 07:40:25 am
Does it really have a trillion hitpoints?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 01, 2008, 07:44:39 am
I guess so, but I hope that it doesn't. Cause that way it's way too much of an overkill ship.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Admiral_Stones on May 01, 2008, 10:37:18 am
Inferno = Overkill
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 01, 2008, 11:09:19 am
The Icanus could still take it.......... :nervous:


Hopefully.........
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on May 01, 2008, 11:18:34 am
The Icanus's most powerful weapon does .1% damage to the Gargant's turrets.

Woomeister designed it to be invincible.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 01, 2008, 11:20:04 am
Inferno = Overkill
You know, I have been planning an Inferno related parody campaign, where a mission consists of the GTVA and the Shivans fighting it off and always trying to top the enemy by sending in an even bigger ship than what the enemy just sent. The culmination would, of course, be the arrival of an equivalent of the ****ing Death Star.

The Icanus's most powerful weapon does .1% damage to the Gargant's turrets.

Woomeister designed it to be invincible.
Aye. Didn't it include some sort of a supernova SEXP as well? Just in case...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 01, 2008, 04:46:46 pm
Inferno = Overkill
You know, I have been planning an Inferno related parody campaign, where a mission consists of the GTVA and the Shivans fighting it off and always trying to top the enemy by sending in an even bigger ship than what the enemy just sent. The culmination would, of course, be the arrival of an equivalent of the ****ing Death Star.

I'd definitely play that
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Titan on May 02, 2008, 07:02:08 am
hehehe...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 02, 2008, 12:58:06 pm
Aproximately 45km

Here, I have a better quality picture of it.
Approx 38.7km, thank you.

And the Icanus' Aurora cannon does .5% damage to its turrets.

(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/648/ownedxn9.jpg)
That's the Gargant pwning the GTVA fleet with its rear cannons only. That's the back of the ship.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on May 02, 2008, 01:00:37 pm
And the Icanus' Aurora Punisher cannon does .5% damage to its turrets.


Fixed.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 02, 2008, 01:37:23 pm
That battle is humiliating...

And next, you're gonna tell me that it survives supernovas ?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 02, 2008, 01:59:04 pm
There are ingame shots of the Icanus battling the Gargant near Earth(not part of the main campaign, however...it was just a test). I don't know where they are.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 02, 2008, 02:17:00 pm
And the Icanus' Aurora Punisher cannon does .5% damage to its turrets.


Fixed.
Or not. Apparently they renamed it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 02, 2008, 02:20:58 pm
Well the beam's name is known to be Punisher. Maybe the beam sound's name got you confused.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 02, 2008, 02:24:37 pm
Here are the Earth ones

(http://inferno.hard-light.net/GargSpam01.jpg)
(http://inferno.hard-light.net/GargSpam02.jpg)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 02, 2008, 02:27:27 pm
These are the ones I was mentioning. Thank you! :D
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 02, 2008, 02:56:57 pm
And ignore the damage on the Gargant, that is with a modded Punisher.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 02, 2008, 03:02:44 pm
Eh?

Woomeister himself took the screenies...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 02, 2008, 03:09:10 pm
Look a few threads up ( the "Qs about Inferno" ). He said that he made the beam cannon fire extremely often with sexps.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 02, 2008, 03:43:36 pm
Eh?

Woomeister himself took the screenies...

Yeah, I took on a bet that the Icanus could kill the Gargant if you set it to fire overly often. (fire-beam with repeat count of zillion, with 1 repeat delay [seconds])
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 02, 2008, 04:40:52 pm
But that's not a modded Punisher!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on May 02, 2008, 05:59:56 pm
I recall there being something said about the Gargant not being able to kill (another copy of?) itself with its beams...
What was that all about?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on May 02, 2008, 06:42:14 pm
Those beams really need their +Range: set higher.  They appear to be reaching their max of 30k.

And that ship has serious overtiling! :shaking:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on May 02, 2008, 08:13:08 pm
Those beams really need their +Range: set higher.  They appear to be reaching their max of 30k.

And that ship has serious overtiling! :shaking:

When a ship reaches 45km in length, both of those are bound to happen...lol.
A beam doesn't travel the ship's length O_o.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: StrayFender on May 02, 2008, 08:37:15 pm
 :wtf: It's stupidly big
who will be able to make 1 point of damage to that xD?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 02, 2008, 09:19:42 pm
A Fenris (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25406.msg974152.html#msg974152)?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: StrayFender on May 02, 2008, 10:31:27 pm
A Fenris (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25406.msg974152.html#msg974152)?

 :jaw:

I had not seen it
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 03, 2008, 09:09:50 am
That's not actually a Fenris, it's a GTC Escargot.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 03, 2008, 10:55:29 am
This thread is getting out of hand...

If you feel like talking about the possible role of the Gargant in Inferno, go for it...otherwise...*summons Woo*
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 03, 2008, 11:17:56 am
What I want to know is:

1. Would a Gargant beat another Gargant ?
2. How many Icanus'/Gigas' would you need to take down the Gargant?
3. Why do you need an unstoppable-invincible-god-like-super-ship in a mod, when it isn't seen in the campaign ?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 03, 2008, 11:26:20 am
1) The ship has been designed to be invincible but I don't think there's a special code for it. I guess a Gargant is strong enough to face another Gargant but this situation isn't going to occur.
2) Read above.
3) It doesn't make sense. A ship can still appear in sub campaigns released with the main one.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on May 03, 2008, 12:54:44 pm
Its for the gradual procession of larger and larger ships. After the Gigas goes down at the hands of the Icanus, something needs to take down the Icanus.

Other than that, I guess the Gargant would be awesome for one of those Death Star Trench Run type missions where you're basically dogfighting on the hull of a large ship. As in, you have to hug the hull close, or get shredded by turrets, and get to a certain area for something...(infiltration, sabotage)? It would be a nice mission, and something that doesn't seem to have been done before (in FS at least). There doesn't even need to be allied capships attacking it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 03, 2008, 01:16:10 pm
I have tried something like that in the past(with a Sathanas), the result wasn't that good.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on May 03, 2008, 01:33:15 pm
What went wrong?
I was thinking it wouldn't work well with a Sath since it's on the small side, if you're going to be hurtling along its surface for extended periods of time.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 03, 2008, 01:36:14 pm
I don't even know if the Gargant has dockpoints...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on May 03, 2008, 01:43:24 pm
I don't even know if the Gargant has dockpoints...

What!? Its not that hard to add dockpoints. The paths, perhaps.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 03, 2008, 02:08:25 pm
Everyone can add dockpoints, it doesn't mean they're part of the original concept. Maybe the Gargant has no dockpoints.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on May 03, 2008, 02:44:32 pm
And that brings me to "What does having or not having dock points to do with a trench-run style mission?"
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 03, 2008, 02:53:55 pm
It's supposed to be a "hive" ship... Something I don't think the Shivans are ( I don't think they are a "hive" society ).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 03, 2008, 03:25:15 pm
And that brings me to "What does having or not having dock points to do with a trench-run style mission?"

A mission centered around a ship docking with the Gargant, that's one of the possible scenarios.

It's supposed to be a "hive" ship... Something I don't think the Shivans are ( I don't think they are a "hive" society ).

Well the "Hive Mind" is a canon theory readable from the tech room :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 03, 2008, 03:35:30 pm
But still a theory, nothing more.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 03, 2008, 03:40:23 pm
You could maybe set it to self - destruct if a certain subsystem is destroyed (like the Lucifer and its reactors or the Shivan Comm Node and its crystal), then either give the subsystem less hitpoints so the player can destroy it or give the player a specialized weapon that can take it out, then they have to fly over the thing's hull avoiding turret fire and fighters to kill it, and escape before the explosion kills them (give it a long time before it explodes so they can get to safety).

Either that or build a huge mega uberbeam cannon that does 1000000000000000 damage and takes it out in one hit. :D

How many turrets does it have anyway? What weapons are on them?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 03, 2008, 03:43:21 pm
But still canon...and the "SH" could be "SSSJ", "SSDn"...the name "Hive" has almost nothing to do with the theory. It's a big ship, called Hive...it could have another name.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on May 03, 2008, 06:03:47 pm
You could maybe set it to self - destruct if a certain subsystem is destroyed (like the Lucifer and its reactors or the Shivan Comm Node and its crystal), then either give the subsystem less hitpoints so the player can destroy it or give the player a specialized weapon that can take it out, then they have to fly over the thing's hull avoiding turret fire and fighters to kill it, and escape before the explosion kills them (give it a long time before it explodes so they can get to safety).

How un-epic is that?
Make it so that the player HAS to die. As in, the explosion is like a "supernova" and your jump drives get busted by the shockwave.   :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 03:07:06 am
I don't think it would be a proper ending for a main Inferno campaign.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 04, 2008, 05:59:08 am
It'd be nice for an soc spin-off :)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 06:02:54 am
Who knows? :D

Anyway, did you know that the Inferno SOC fleet no longer exists?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 04, 2008, 06:09:46 am
Ah nutz. They had my favourite bombers.
If INF2/3 ever happens i hazard to guess the scale of warship that would feature. I like the term anti-fleet cannon by the way.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 06:12:57 am
Don't think of Inferno as a catch all term for oversized ships, it's becoming much more.

Speaking of ships, I don't think there will ever be a Terran ship larger than the Icanus and a Shivan ship larger than the Gargant, at least not in INF.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 04, 2008, 06:41:01 am
So how large is the Icanus, anyway?

Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Admiral_Stones on May 04, 2008, 06:46:21 am
Hmmm... Decided that I need to use my literalic talent to full extent by writing a (what other could it be) Sci-Fi book. It contains a 275 km long Flagship, not counting extremely ridiculous numbers to allow my universe to win a vs. Star Trek and even a vs. Star Wars battle by including stats literally a thousand times higher then their own (including 600 Billion Zettawatta/second power output, possibly rivaling the output of Beta Centauri, six humongeous anti-capship guns able to obliterate planets in one shot and - the crème de la crème of overpowerization - two forward fixed anti-sadron torpedo swarm launchers, with a 800 yottatons payload each, able to obliterate entire system by destroying their sun).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 06:53:05 am
So how large is the Icanus, anyway?

It's about 20kms long. Its contruction was possible thanks to...something...I can't tell you more ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 04, 2008, 09:52:16 am
Hmmm... Decided that I need to use my literalic talent to full extent by writing a (what other could it be) Sci-Fi book. It contains a 275 km long Flagship, not counting extremely ridiculous numbers to allow my universe to win a vs. Star Trek and even a vs. Star Wars battle by including stats literally a thousand times higher then their own (including 600 Billion Zettawatta/second power output, possibly rivaling the output of Beta Centauri, six humongeous anti-capship guns able to obliterate planets in one shot and - the crème de la crème of overpowerization - two forward fixed anti-sadron torpedo swarm launchers, with a 800 yottatons payload each, able to obliterate entire system by destroying their sun).

It's literary talent, not literalic. And how do these things work?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 04, 2008, 11:45:09 am
I have my personal sci-fi universe/story created. It's a secret actually, but all I can say is that it's realistic ( as all the tech is explained on how it works, and doesn't get ridiculous ), unique ( all things in it are original, not some copies/rip-offs, and you've never seen anything like it, trust me on that one ) and can beat any other sci-fi by power, as ships are much stronger, and STILL remain realistic, and not over-powered.

That's what I dislike about the Gargant - it's extremely powerfull, but not realistic. But on the other hand, since when is FreeSpace ( especially Inferno ) realistic ?  :p
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Woomeister on May 04, 2008, 11:54:41 am
The Gargant is 36km not 45km btw

Yeah, I took on a bet that the Icanus could kill the Gargant if you set it to fire overly often. (fire-beam with repeat count of zillion, with 1 repeat delay [seconds])
You lost big time :D

Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 04, 2008, 01:00:08 pm
I have my personal sci-fi universe/story created. It's a secret actually, but all I can say is that it's realistic ( as all the tech is explained on how it works, and doesn't get ridiculous ), unique ( all things in it are original, not some copies/rip-offs, and you've never seen anything like it, trust me on that one ) and can beat any other sci-fi by power, as ships are much stronger, and STILL remain realistic, and not over-powered.

I'm really curious! PM details?

I won't steal crap, that's not how writers roll.

(Although, I have to say, I think your description is probably a bit optimistic. Unless it's powered by technobabble, I doubt you can be both original and realistic.)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Admiral_Stones on May 04, 2008, 01:20:57 pm
Hmmm... Decided that I need to use my literalic talent to full extent by writing a (what other could it be) Sci-Fi book. It contains a 275 km long Flagship, not counting extremely ridiculous numbers to allow my universe to win a vs. Star Trek and even a vs. Star Wars battle by including stats literally a thousand times higher then their own (including 600 Billion Zettawatta/second power output, possibly rivaling the output of Beta Centauri, six humongeous anti-capship guns able to obliterate planets in one shot and - the crème de la crème of overpowerization - two forward fixed anti-sadron torpedo swarm launchers, with a 800 yottatons payload each, able to obliterate entire system by destroying their sun).

It's literary talent, not literalic. And how do these things work?

I decided to replace to swarm to torpedo launcher with a swarm matter collapsing torpedos, creating ultra-strong black holes sucking in a entire galaxy in a matter of second (Which the ubership is naturally able to withstand, thanks to it's drives which can provide 400'000'000'000'000'000'000 g accelleration)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 04, 2008, 01:30:46 pm
The story/universe is original, and most of the stuff in it. Though certain parts can be considered similar due to it being realistic, their origin, idea, use and look is unique. Sorry, won't PM details, because I keep it very secret. The story/universe was being developed by me for a long time, and is very precious to me. I just don't want to share info about it until I finish it.  ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 04, 2008, 01:37:18 pm
Hmmm... Decided that I need to use my literalic talent to full extent by writing a (what other could it be) Sci-Fi book. It contains a 275 km long Flagship, not counting extremely ridiculous numbers to allow my universe to win a vs. Star Trek and even a vs. Star Wars battle by including stats literally a thousand times higher then their own (including 600 Billion Zettawatta/second power output, possibly rivaling the output of Beta Centauri, six humongeous anti-capship guns able to obliterate planets in one shot and - the crème de la crème of overpowerization - two forward fixed anti-sadron torpedo swarm launchers, with a 800 yottatons payload each, able to obliterate entire system by destroying their sun).

It's literary talent, not literalic. And how do these things work?

I decided to replace to swarm to torpedo launcher with a swarm matter collapsing torpedos, creating ultra-strong black holes sucking in a entire galaxy in a matter of second (Which the ubership is naturally able to withstand, thanks to it's drives which can provide 400'000'000'000'000'000'000 g accelleration)

All of this stuff just sounds like pointless, plotless wank to me.

There are plenty of scifi universes which are way more powerful than the stuff you're describing yet they actually make sense in context and aren't just wank
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Admiral_Stones on May 04, 2008, 01:44:52 pm
I was j/king.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 04, 2008, 02:32:58 pm
But still a theory, nothing more.
To be fair, the 'Hive' designation is only GTVA, not Shivan. Woo said there are more than one 1 Gargant.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 02:39:07 pm
In any case designating a ship "Hive" isn't going to change a lot. Calling it Shivan Mega Juggernaut would have been the same and, as I said, the Hive Mind theory is canon.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 04, 2008, 02:41:28 pm
I'd call it a mothership... Ok, whatever. It's Inferno, and for Inferno it's good.

But Ok now, seriously, more than 1 Gargant ?! This is getting ridiculous. 1 Gargant is enough.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 04, 2008, 02:47:18 pm
I'd call it a mothership... Ok, whatever. It's Inferno, and for Inferno it's good.

But Ok now, seriously, more than 1 Gargant ?! This is getting ridiculous. 1 Gargant is enough.
Woomeister said a while ago he'd make a super big Shivan installation like the Hara but 500 times bigger. But he admitted that he'd never get a good design...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 04, 2008, 02:48:14 pm
x_x *dead*
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 04, 2008, 02:52:31 pm
x_x *dead*
Finally.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 04, 2008, 02:54:46 pm
Nah, I'm pretty much alive.

But seriously, that's a bit too big. Though I read somewhere on HLP that Volition themselves said to "think bigger".
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 02:57:22 pm
I'd call it a mothership... Ok, whatever. It's Inferno, and for Inferno it's good.

But Ok now, seriously, more than 1 Gargant ?! This is getting ridiculous. 1 Gargant is enough.

How can you claim that? Do you know the limits of the Shivan fleet?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 04, 2008, 02:59:31 pm
No. But even by Shivan standarts it sounds ridiculous. Besides, we survived 2 Shivan incursions already. How could we survive another one when there are multiple Gargants fooling around ?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 03:00:36 pm
1) Are we supposed to survive?

2) Are those ships supposed to penetrate in GTVA space? What if they're trapped outside with Meson bombs?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 04, 2008, 03:03:51 pm
No. But even by Shivan standarts it sounds ridiculous. Besides, we survived 2 Shivan incursions already. How could we survive another one when there are multiple Gargants fooling around ?
Using plot shields, of course.

1) Are we supposed to survive?
I hope so... :nervous:

2) Are those ships supposed to penetrate in GTVA space? What if they're trapped outside with Meson bombs?
Woo said they wouldn't end Inferno by blocking off jump nodes, though there would be some node collapsing. Sid said that we're all assuming that the Gargy is used in an offensive role... It could be purely a defensive measure.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 03:06:53 pm
We can see many Gargants and trap most of them outside GTVA space. There will be only one Gargant pissing Terrans and Vasudans off.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 04, 2008, 03:11:54 pm
We can see many Gargants and trap most of them outside GTVA space. There will be only one Gargant pissing Terrans and Vasudans off.
Says who? There could be 3 Gargants in GTVA space, but doing nothing... Ominously planning something else. ;7
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 03:16:23 pm
No, everyone would commit suicide ---> end of campaign.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 04, 2008, 03:18:56 pm
No, everyone would commit suicide ---> end of campaign.
I would have committed suicide at the 80 saths mark.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 03:21:01 pm
But someone arrived and told you that they were moving around the Capella sun. Ah, Fate... :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 04, 2008, 03:22:43 pm
Well in any case, I think that the GTVEA will think of something.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 03:25:46 pm
Suicide!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 04, 2008, 03:26:44 pm
Something that helps them survive. :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 04, 2008, 03:28:32 pm
Delayed suicide?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 04, 2008, 03:44:29 pm
Delayed suicide?
Go do it yourself.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 04, 2008, 04:43:31 pm
The story/universe is original, and most of the stuff in it. Though certain parts can be considered similar due to it being realistic, their origin, idea, use and look is unique. Sorry, won't PM details, because I keep it very secret. The story/universe was being developed by me for a long time, and is very precious to me. I just don't want to share info about it until I finish it.  ;)

A shame.

Well, you sound a bit pretentious, I gotta say, but I trust your skillz. I just hope the universe has merit beyond its ability to destroy everybody else.

Just keep in mind that feedback is a really important part of the creative process. You don't want to go to all that effort and then find you've missed something critical.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 04, 2008, 04:59:32 pm
Of course, it is more than just beating everything. And I'm taking the real world and other sci-fis to see if I missed anything. But creating original content, not copying anything. Just looking if I missed anything important. That you can be assured ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 04, 2008, 05:07:37 pm
Well, science fiction is dying -- so if you've got something fresh and new, by all means, please get it out there! It's sad to see the field decaying.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 04, 2008, 05:18:44 pm
I'm waiting for the right moment, and a certain level of 'complete'.

As for science fiction dieing, I got only 2 suggestions:
1. Let's advertise FS2 SCP. Not only as an amazing game with an incredible and unique story/universe, but also as a game engine of endless possibilities.
2. HLP members create a story/universe/movie/book together, that brings new life to sci-fi. Something that could give some interest to other people.

But those are just my suggestions. The 1st option is easy. And as for the 2nd, I'm thinking of writing FS2 as a book/long story when I'm on free time.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Retsof on May 04, 2008, 05:50:51 pm
Quote
1. Let's advertise FS2 SCP. Not only as an amazing game with an incredible and unique story/universe, but also as a game engine of endless possibilities.
Someone (not me, I'd mess it up somehow :P) e-mail X-Play.
Quote
2. HLP members create a story/universe/movie/book together, that brings new life to sci-fi. Something that could give some interest to other people.
*looks for ambition* nope nothing.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 04, 2008, 10:37:24 pm
I'm waiting for the right moment, and a certain level of 'complete'.

As for science fiction dieing, I got only 2 suggestions:
1. Let's advertise FS2 SCP. Not only as an amazing game with an incredible and unique story/universe, but also as a game engine of endless possibilities...

[snip]

But those are just my suggestions. The 1st option is easy. And as for the 2nd, I'm thinking of writing FS2 as a book/long story when I'm on free time.

I'm afraid that FS2 falls firmly into the category of military space opera. While space opera sells to a reliable audience, it is not likely to explode, and it's considered a stale, overdone genre.

Science fiction seems to be gradually bleeding into the mainstream, maturing itself, and thereby vanishing. It started with cyberpunk in the 80s and it hasn't stopped since. The big SF products these days are summer blockbusters, comics, media tie-in novels -- and, of course, games. Original written material is slowly dwindling away.

It's become so difficult to write crisp, relevant, believable SF set anywhere in the future. No one can predict what life will be like in thirty years, let alone three thousand. The task is insurmountable, and people are starting to realize it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on May 05, 2008, 01:06:02 am
Well in any case, I think that the GTVEA will think of something.

Alpha 1!!!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 05, 2008, 01:20:58 am
Please, Everyone knows that when Command tries to pull that one, Alpha 1 is always playing for the other side. Remember DEM?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Titan on May 05, 2008, 05:58:56 am
<---
the title says it all
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 05, 2008, 12:46:44 pm
I think I recall someone mentionning a shivan ship called the behemoth (possibly the biggest). However, I have no clue as to how we can determine the strength of the shivan armada when we don't even know the extent of their territory or their motive.

However, I hope/pray/trust/implore/wish that one day we will see a gargant destroyed in one campaign (someone mentionned trying to implement descent style gameplay into freespace in order to destroy uber ships from the inside. if I recall well, twisted infinities proposed those kind of missions.).

One thing I would like to see also would be a vinashaak. and of course one day, a version of what could be the last fight against the shivans and eventually their ultimate destruction (even if it's to remain a "non cannon" tale, since not made by V and all that).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Admiral_Stones on May 05, 2008, 01:51:46 pm
The Last Battle against the Shivans™ can't be made without the BoE-Syndrome. Now combine 3.6.10 VPs with BoE-Syndrome: Lagfest on anything lesser then a pretty ubermonster gaming machine.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 05, 2008, 03:37:45 pm
Combine the Bigg battles from the Following
EarthMinbari War/Dilgar War/Shadow War/Drakh War/Both EA Civil War (2nd one refered to in Deconstuction of Falling Stars) > Babylon5
All big battles from the Star Wars films
The dominion War + Battle of Wolf 359 + Battle of Sector 001 (ST First Contact) from Star Trek
The Time War (Doctor Who)
And that will be the scale of The Last Battle Against the ShivansTM

In the words of Dr Leonard H. McCoy, Son of David McCoy: "we're talking about universal armageddon"

Youd need a whole floor of servers to deal with the lag
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 05, 2008, 06:05:14 pm
I always thought that the conflict with the Shivans would end with a peaceful resolution, FS2 seemed to imply that

Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on May 05, 2008, 06:51:44 pm
In what way?
"We're sealing off teh nodules so you can't come and killz us HAHA!"
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on May 05, 2008, 07:43:29 pm
In the way that the GTVA doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of defeating the Shivans militarily?

Just a tenth of the Sath fleet could have walked all over the GTVA, and I refuse to believe that the Sath fleet was their entire military. Basically: they outnumber us a thousand to one, and no matter how good a fighter you are, you simply can't beat that.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Scooby_Doo on May 05, 2008, 09:45:50 pm
Combine the Bigg battles from the Following
EarthMinbari War/Dilgar War/Shadow War/Drakh War/Both EA Civil War (2nd one refered to in Deconstuction of Falling Stars) > Babylon5
All big battles from the Star Wars films
The dominion War + Battle of Wolf 359 + Battle of Sector 001 (ST First Contact) from Star Trek
The Time War (Doctor Who)
And that will be the scale of The Last Battle Against the ShivansTM

In the words of Dr Leonard H. McCoy, Son of David McCoy: "we're talking about universal armageddon"

Youd need a whole floor of servers to deal with the lag

Well you won't need much, especially with the Time war stuff.  Everyone else will mostly erased.   :lol:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 06, 2008, 02:25:58 am
Well, if the shivans are a hive mind (as some of us suspect), then the last fight might primarily focus on their biggest unit: the one that serves their entire coordination (their nexus). Once destroyed, it would end the war for good while ensuring the distruction of the rest of the fleet. I always thought that the shivans were not researching any new ship designs but were displaying them in a huge sphere corresponding to their territory with the most heavy and lethal units near the core of the sphere (wherever might that be) and the least dangerous units (like the FS1 fleet) in it's extremities. And of course, given the threat of the potential adversaries, ships would be rotated in and out of the layers of that sphere. Destroy the core, and everything blows.

What about descent pyrotechnics? or trench runs? If the SW guys can plan an attack against a 160KM diameter death star and the babylon project guys can include a shadow planet killer in their game, then why not?

What could be the heaviest shivan unit? I once heard the behemoth... I would give the following names perhaps: Kali or hecatonshirus.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 06, 2008, 10:15:34 am
It should be an entire planet converted into a spaceship or space station
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 06, 2008, 10:43:17 am
I told you, I read somewhere that Volition commented to "think bigger" than super-juggernauts. Can't find a quote.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 06, 2008, 10:50:29 am
I don't get it! Why wouldn't V contribute storywise in continuing the saga with fan made campaigns like this?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 06, 2008, 12:09:41 pm
Because they didn't know where the story was going to go next, beyond general supposition.

Because it would be a stupid move if, by some chance, they ever did an actual FS3.

Because it would quash creativity on the part of the fanbase by designating some ideas as canon, or at least better-then-fanon.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 06, 2008, 12:27:01 pm
suppositions are all we have today! it's better than nothing. I would kill to hear the signification of the "much bigger problem" the shivans were only a symptom of, or the "think bigger than a uber mega juggernaut" directive.

FS3 could basically be a campaign before being a game. FS's legendary flexibility would allow that (authors of another game with a huge fan base have done that once). And we know that a "real" FS3 game is unlikely.

I don't think fan creativity would suffer. Herhaps all views would not be canon, but does that matter? a few FS1 campaigns depicted the end of the shivan war even before FS2 came out, and I'm sure they are regarded as good campaigns nevertheless.

In short, I think it's a win scenario.

Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on May 06, 2008, 12:37:09 pm
suppositions are all we have today! it's better than nothing. I would kill to hear the signification of the "much bigger problem" the shivans were only a symptom of, or the "think bigger than a uber mega juggernaut" directive.

Did you not read what Battuta said? :v: themselves didn't know exactly what they were going to do. I'm sure they had a very general idea, but nothing specific, and therefore nothing you'd be looking for.

FS3 could basically be a campaign before being a game. FS's legendary flexibility would allow that (authors of another game with a huge fan base have done that once). And we know that a "real" FS3 game is unlikely.

Read this. (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/FAQ/general.html#MakeFS3)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 06, 2008, 01:55:34 pm
I'm sure I would like to know what that "general idea" might be. :nod:

If volition's behind it and supplying those "general ideas", then possibly a FS3 might be born... However, I could be wrong...

Also, when I meant a "real" FS3, I meant a retail game from Volition. Not a user campaign claming to be FS3.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 06, 2008, 03:31:56 pm
Well maybe if the campaign was good enough to get praised from one of the original FS team, yet not backed by :v: the campaign could be an  "unofficially official" continuation.

Just like Sonic the Comic-Online, the fan made continuation of the Europian Sonic the Hedgehog comic series, is praised and suppoerted by many of the original writers, yet not backed by Eggmont Fleetway or Sega
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 06, 2008, 07:27:47 pm
Is that still going :eek2: I'm off to google that RIGHT NOW !

WHEeeeeeee!!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 06, 2008, 07:46:57 pm
There will never (confidence: very high) be a retail FS3 from Volition.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 06, 2008, 08:53:05 pm
I meant Sonic the COmic :D
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 06, 2008, 09:32:07 pm
I know, it was addressed to folks above you. You of all people would know no FS3 is coming, Dekkor -- you've been around a while.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 06, 2008, 09:59:24 pm
I been here since at least 01 as my old squadname.

*as JK47,.....maybe 99.

Dammit, I can't actually remember what i used to look at on the net before HLP came about, probably Newgrounds.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 06, 2008, 11:38:24 pm
The point im making is while there will never be an official Freespace 3, there is the chance of making an "unofficially official" version.

So far the two prime candidates are IMHO Blue Planet (When all chapters are done) and INF SCP (When released). Hell everyone was saying that Inf R1 was almost FS3


BTW to moderators sorry abput this shameless plug

As for sonic the Comic, the official vesion you could buy in the newsagents was discontinues ages ago. the last original story was an adaptation of Sonic Adventure, then it went all reprints before being discontinued.
But it was revived and continued as a Webcomic by fans about a year later. Eggmont Fleetway (original publisher) and sega have not endorsed it, however it is praised by many of the original writers/artists
I highly recomend that anyone who used to read Sonic the comic check it out http://www.stconline.co.uk/ (http://www.stconline.co.uk/).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 07, 2008, 12:01:56 am
No, there is no chance at a fan-made 'unofficially official' FS3, because nobody would agree on anything about it. No V, no FS3.

No, INFR1 was never considered 'almost FS3'.

These are stock answers, all debated a hundred thousand times. We definitely don't need to start another FS3 argument, so I will stop here.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 07, 2008, 01:02:02 am
Did anyone actually read that little chapter on kara's FAQ? A usermade FS3 doesn't work. If someone makes it, it is kind of rude to claim that that one is FS3. If everyone participates, it will not be easy to reach an agreement on the plot, and even if it succeeds, everyone will already know what happens in it and playing it won't be so exciting. At least I would still prefer the method we've had so far. Let people do campaigns. Let them share their visions of what might happen after FS2. It is fun. It is nice to see what visions other people have about the matter. And it is cool. But picking one out of 'em and calling it FS3... no.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 07, 2008, 01:09:35 am
I agree, but might volition be ANY user?

Didn't the FAQ say: "if it ain't volition, it ain't FS3"? But what if volition was making the campaign?

In case I'm becoming a nuisance, tell me and I'll stop posting. I truly mean no harm in asking those questions and I fully respect that paragraph of the FAQ (I personnally think the same). But the question is, what if Volition continued the story THEMSELVES?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 07, 2008, 01:13:53 am
:v: is :v:. But I doubt that would happen. Most likely they are interested in the luxury of eating. That means they have to work. That means that they can't just make a campaign but should rather do an actual game so that it could be sold and they could make money. And over the years and even currently it seems highly unlikely that they'd be interested in making FS3. They have other projects. Projects that are more likely to make money. The space sim genre isn't doing exactly well, so puking out FS3 would be a huge financial risk.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 07, 2008, 01:34:22 am
Yes, this I know!

Oh well, let's stay then with our multiple FS3's  ;7

However, I still would be interested in knowing what was the "general idea" they had in mind when they were mentioning the "much bigger problem" or the "think bigger" possibilities.

This could be included in a campaign, even while not naming it FS3.

By the way, I disagree: space sims rock today: Didn't I mention the illustrious wing commander arena? 4 motion degres instead of 6, power ups in space, the shiny future of the genre. :lol:

You reckon we'll be seeing FS arena one day? "sarcasm, sarcasm"
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: aurora_energy on May 09, 2008, 01:59:45 am
If the garret is invincible then how do you destroy it? steal a shivan cargo ship, use etak to dock, then transmit a virus whilst docked to self destruct?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 09, 2008, 03:40:34 am
 :rolleyes:Lay off the Independance Day  :rolleyes:

Its not invincible. It just takes about a day to kill with multiple beams.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 09, 2008, 04:08:18 am
Actually, it might work.

Let's nuke the bastards
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 09, 2008, 04:52:32 am
With a Z-Bomb (the Doomsday bomb capable of turning the planet into a small sun) and it takes all six in existance to destroy a single Gargant
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 09, 2008, 10:34:23 am
How I'd love to see one destroyed in a campaign. ;7
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 09, 2008, 11:03:59 am
A mini-supernova. You think a fighter would survive a shockwave from the Gargant ?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 09, 2008, 11:07:45 am
A mini-supernova. You think a fighter would survive a shockwave from the Gargant ?

~www.freespace2.com `i
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 09, 2008, 11:10:49 am
Is destroyed delay
>SH Gargant
Supernova start
>1

AMEN

But still, without cheats or invisible Sathanas' nuking a sun, the Gargant's shockwave ( or engine wash ) should make little fighters vanish with no trace except for a scream through the comms.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 09, 2008, 11:21:00 am
Let's nuke the bastards
The Harby's a nuke and that does less than 0.1x10^-16 damage, doesn't it?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 09, 2008, 11:24:48 am
Harbinger? It does 5000 HP damage ( 5 gigatons ).

P.S. I think we just found out how to kill the Gargant - make someone nuke a star while the Gargant is in system.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on May 09, 2008, 11:26:38 am
make someone nuke a star while the Gargant is in system.
You know, it sounds really simple, when you put it that way.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 09, 2008, 11:29:26 am
Haha. So what will Inferno team say about THAT ? There's no way to make a ship survive a FreeSpace supernova. [voice-slowing-down]Unless it makes an intersystem jump during the 60 seconds that take for the supernova to reach it.[/voice-slowing-down] DAMMIT !!!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 09, 2008, 12:10:31 pm
Yeah, but it's so much more gratifying to kill it conventionnally. (or possibly less conventionnally, like tearing it up from the inside à la descent).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 09, 2008, 12:15:20 pm
Let's just give them the bird flu.

Ok, bad joke. But the Gargant HAS to have a weakness. Or else humanity is, well... pretty much screwed.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 09, 2008, 12:54:12 pm
P.S. I think we just found out how to kill the Gargant - make someone nuke a star while the Gargant is in system.
Well they'd jump out.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 09, 2008, 12:57:01 pm
Haha. So what will Inferno team say about THAT ? There's no way to make a ship survive a FreeSpace supernova. [voice-slowing-down]Unless it makes an intersystem jump during the 60 seconds that take for the supernova to reach it.[/voice-slowing-down] DAMMIT !!!

I think I know that, Snail.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Admiral_Stones on May 09, 2008, 12:57:31 pm
WTF? The Harbinger has 5 Gigatons payload, that's a hundred times the Tsar Bomb. It released 5.3 ****ing yottawatts of energy! Multiplied with hundred, it's got more power than the luminosity of the sun! Measuring by this, one might need more power to destroy the Gargant than the event horizon allows, or even a planck power (3.63 × 1052W, a simply unbelievably stupid high amount of energy).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 09, 2008, 01:02:27 pm
Try not to think of it that much. All it will do is cause MORE headaches.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 09, 2008, 01:15:00 pm
WTF? The Harbinger has 5 Gigatons payload, that's a hundred times the Tsar Bomb. It released 5.3 ****ing yottawatts of energy! Multiplied with hundred, it's got more power than the luminosity of the sun! Measuring by this, one might need more power to destroy the Gargant than the event horizon allows, or even a planck power (3.63 × 1052W, a simply unbelievably stupid high amount of energy).
IMO a megaton isn't a megaton of TNT, but a megaton of pussycrap explosive in the future. It helps to explain it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 09, 2008, 01:24:20 pm
Or there are confounding variables beyond megatonnage that make the Gargant tough. Armor isn't simply 'ability to absorb gigatons of damage.' Maybe it has a subspace shunt that vents energy into subspace. Maybe it has one of those cliche power-absorber systems that transmutes mechanical impact and radiation pressure into some kind of skinshield.

In soft science fiction, there's always some bull**** you can pull.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 09, 2008, 01:28:56 pm
Or there are confounding variables beyond megatonnage that make the Gargant tough. Armor isn't simply 'ability to absorb gigatons of damage.' Maybe it has a subspace shunt that vents energy into subspace. Maybe it has one of those cliche power-absorber systems that transmutes mechanical impact and radiation pressure into some kind of skinshield.

In soft science fiction, there's always some bull**** you can pull.
Woo will probably give it surface_shields when it's fully implemented... On top of the armor it already has.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 09, 2008, 02:26:26 pm
I heard the vinashaak had shields, but the gargant?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 09, 2008, 02:38:35 pm
The Gargant doesn't need shields... :D
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 09, 2008, 03:17:43 pm
Seems true: However, I once read that combat was NOT the main use of the big G. :D
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 09, 2008, 04:27:55 pm
Seems true: However, I once read that combat was NOT the main use of the big G. :D
Probably used for babysitting small freighter convoys, like the Fenris. :D
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 09, 2008, 06:45:29 pm
Seems true: However, I once read that combat was NOT the main use of the big G. :D
Probably used for babysitting small freighter convoys, like the Fenris. :D
No, escape pod guard duty.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 10, 2008, 02:43:47 pm
I thought it was like a base or mobile command center, being a "hive" after all.

Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 10, 2008, 02:58:52 pm
Can you not get sarcasm?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 10, 2008, 03:01:04 pm
Can't you not get a normal comment on that sub-topic ?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: MC_Kejml on May 12, 2008, 08:57:05 am
Uhmm.. all you guys are talking about how difficult would the gargant be to destroy, but yet I've found a flaw in it :P
When it travels through subspace, you can just send a auto-destruct corvette or a bigger ship to collapse it with the node.
Tada.

Or does it survive the subspace explosion ? :P I think not..
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 12, 2008, 10:36:20 am
Maybe it only travels through those secret Shivan nodes they used so much during FS1.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 12, 2008, 10:45:06 am
It Most likely does

As for destroying the Gargant, Id like to see it survive being Tossed into a black hole.

> Done by tricking it into entering a system like Cygnus X-1 or one othe the many other black-star systems

Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 13, 2008, 11:12:52 am
It Most likely does

As for destroying the Gargant, Id like to see it survive being Tossed into a black hole.

> Done by tricking it into entering a system like Cygnus X-1 or one othe the many other black-star systems


I seriously doubt the Shivans are that stupid. I can kill the president by tricking all his guards into buying ice cream.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Titan on May 13, 2008, 02:14:13 pm
If they're any reflection of the president himself, i'd say that would work, which negates your rebuke.  ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 13, 2008, 03:23:03 pm
Or even simpler buy him several packs of Pretzels and watch him choke on one  ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 13, 2008, 03:30:16 pm
Back on topic, guys...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 14, 2008, 01:30:55 am
Might it be possible to have (simplified) descent style gameplay under freespace? That might be a solution to get rid of big ships like the gargant.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 14, 2008, 01:42:30 am
It is. Kinda
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mongoose on May 14, 2008, 03:53:44 am
At least in my own humble opinion, any ship as absurdly massive and ridiculously overpowered as the Gargant can only be used as some sort of plot device.  It really becomes a prop instead of a standard ship.  Its destruction (if it was even intended to be destroyed) could only come about by some external circumstance or force acting upon it.  Essentially, it's a Death Star; the only reason its destruction could possibly occur would be if the plot required it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 14, 2008, 07:49:23 am
Yes, and what better way to destroy it unconventionnally à la descent? It might be a good plot devellopment.

Anyway, it HAS to be destroyed: Humans can't lose  :lol:

That ship must have a weakness because everybody has a weakness, I mean what for pandora it was the box thing, for the trojans they got on the wrong horse, for the deathstar it was a design fault... It can be destroyed.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 14, 2008, 09:12:34 am
You were watching Hercules earlier werent you?
and i totally agree...I mean for all we know the shivans have a weakness for putting Big red buttons (labled "Self Destruct" that do exactly what is stated on the tin) on all their ships....Spaceballs anyone?
---
What that coming out of Subspace?
Shivans?!
Oh, S**t! There goes the planet
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 14, 2008, 09:26:10 am
Good: you know your classics. The guys voicing hades is a genius. :lol:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 16, 2008, 12:39:46 pm
At least in my own humble opinion, any ship as absurdly massive and ridiculously overpowered as the Gargant can only be used as some sort of plot device.  It really becomes a prop instead of a standard ship.  Its destruction (if it was even intended to be destroyed) could only come about by some external circumstance or force acting upon it.  Essentially, it's a Death Star; the only reason its destruction could possibly occur would be if the plot required it.
That's the whole point, same with the Gigas.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 16, 2008, 02:39:44 pm
Or lack of a plot if used in a Deus Ex Machina/Just Another Day type campaign

Gargant: Where are you going?
Alpha 1: I am Leaving. You are about to explode.
(Gargant explodes)

Cookie to anyone who guesses what show that is from
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 16, 2008, 02:46:05 pm
At least in my own humble opinion, any ship as absurdly massive and ridiculously overpowered as the Gargant can only be used as some sort of plot device.  It really becomes a prop instead of a standard ship.  Its destruction (if it was even intended to be destroyed) could only come about by some external circumstance or force acting upon it.  Essentially, it's a Death Star; the only reason its destruction could possibly occur would be if the plot required it.
That's the whole point, same with the Gigas.

No, the Gigas can be destroyed by the Icanus.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on May 16, 2008, 03:17:20 pm
Or lack of a plot if used in a Deus Ex Machina/Just Another Day type campaign

Gargant: Where are you going?
Alpha 1: I am Leaving. You are about to explode.
(Gargant explodes)

Cookie to anyone who guesses what show that is from

Stargate SG-1
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 16, 2008, 03:41:08 pm
No, the Gigas can be destroyed by the Icanus.
Just because it can be destroyed by another ship doesn't mean it's not a plot device, and not a proper ship designed to combat the player. Even with Apocalypse warheads, you can't destroy the Gigas... Unless you have a lot of time and patience.

The Sathanas, Lucifer and Colossus are all plot events: You aren't expected to be able to kill them conventionally in a mission. Same with the Gigas, Icanus and Gargant.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 16, 2008, 03:59:16 pm
Technically, the death stars weren't killed conventionnally.

I think "twists" like those are needed to deal with those uber ships, but that doesn't mean alpha 1 can't make the difference.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 16, 2008, 04:02:12 pm
Even a destroyer is a plot device when you fly a fighter. Look at how many destroyers continuously escape in custom campaigns and almost become "characters".

The Iceni is a canon example of not-so-big ship used as plot device.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 16, 2008, 04:10:05 pm
The Iceni is a canon example of not-so-big ship used as plot device.
Yeah, but it can be used as a normal ship. The Gargant, Gigas and Icanus can't really.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 16, 2008, 05:47:26 pm
They can be used as normal ships, the point is that they need reasonable environments.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on May 16, 2008, 11:08:16 pm
And foes matched to their own level. That's why Icanus vs Gigas works... the two are relatively close in power (no other ship can even scratch them, and neither of them approach the sheer indestructibility of the Gargant), and a creative campaign writer can think of scenarios where either one emerges victorious.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 17, 2008, 05:46:23 am
They can be used as normal ships, the point is that they need reasonable environments.
Yeah, like if you give the player a Notus... :lol:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 17, 2008, 09:45:37 am
A Notus with nothing more than Helios torpedoes? Weaponry has its influence.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 17, 2008, 11:10:00 am
any portable meson bombs? ;7
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 17, 2008, 11:22:07 am
Subspace jump Meson bombs INTO INSIDE the Gargant. That way you'd leave just a floating exterior armour.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on May 17, 2008, 11:35:19 am
No, get the fighter wreaking havok INSIDE the gargant. this'll be good!! :lol:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 17, 2008, 03:21:53 pm
A Notus with nothing more than Helios torpedoes? Weaponry has its influence.
I didn't say that. :rolleyes:

Subspace jump Meson bombs INTO INSIDE the Gargant. That way you'd leave just a floating exterior armour.
I have to say that doing that isn't possible, or else we would have done that on the Sathanas and Lucifer.

any portable meson bombs? ;7
There's the Armageddon (called the Apocalypse now) which is a black hole maker, and there's the Executioner in INFR1 which was a meson bomb... Not sure what it's replacement is called though.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 17, 2008, 03:52:21 pm
Subspace jump Meson bombs INTO INSIDE the Gargant. That way you'd leave just a floating exterior armour.
I have to say that doing that isn't possible, or else we would have done that on the Sathanas and Lucifer.

That's because our current Meson bombs weren't portable, and had to be tacticaly deployed. I'm pretty sure noone would have sent a freighter full of people on such a truely-suicide mission, which results in a very horrible and painfull death. In Inferno, all you need is to add some engines to the bomb holder :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 17, 2008, 04:00:21 pm
Surely, freighters can be reigged to automtically jump in and out of subspace at set co-ordinates...I figure a crew would only be needed for complex manouvers
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 18, 2008, 02:43:37 am
That's because our current Meson bombs weren't portable, and had to be tacticaly deployed. I'm pretty sure noone would have sent a freighter full of people on such a truely-suicide mission, which results in a very horrible and painfull death. In Inferno, all you need is to add some engines to the bomb holder :P
It has become common consensus, at least on the Inferno forum, that you can't warp things into other things.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: foolfromhell on May 19, 2008, 07:48:05 pm
Easy way to destroy it...

Launch a few dozen Titan-II missiles, currently in the US military, at it.

Would devastate anything smaller than a thousand kilometers.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on May 19, 2008, 07:56:35 pm
:doubt:

Freespace ships can shake of multi-megaton nukes, I doubt that any weapon in use today would do very much damage against anything but a fenris.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 20, 2008, 12:04:15 pm
Easy way to destroy it...

Launch a few dozen Titan-II missiles, currently in the US military, at it.

Would devastate anything smaller than a thousand kilometers.
As the blowfish said, the Lucifer can survive an explosion of 1,250 gigatons. I bet the Gargant could survive several hundred teratons.

(show your working:

Harbinger Damage: 3,200 (5 gigatons)
Lucifer Hitpoints: 800,000
800,000/3,200 = 250 Harbingers (5 gigatons each)
250*5 gigatons = 1,250 gigatons of damage.

Oh, and BTW:
Gargant Hitpoints: A LOT MORE THAN 800,000
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 20, 2008, 12:18:48 pm
How many hitpoints does the Gargant have ? Because 1 hitpoint is 1.5625 megaton then.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 20, 2008, 12:20:44 pm
Easy way to destroy it...

Launch a few dozen Titan-II missiles, currently in the US military, at it.

Would devastate anything smaller than a thousand kilometers.

Yeah, I'm afraid your love for nuclear missiles (as espoused in the beams thread) is seriously outclassed here.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: foolfromhell on May 20, 2008, 01:41:34 pm
Easy way to destroy it...

Launch a few dozen Titan-II missiles, currently in the US military, at it.

Would devastate anything smaller than a thousand kilometers.


Yeah, I'm afraid your love for nuclear missiles (as espoused in the beams thread) is seriously outclassed here.


Yeah, probably.

Although I know of no metal out there that is only 2.2KM (The Orion) and can survive hundreds of megatons of damage.

That kind of metal would be physically impossible!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 20, 2008, 02:05:06 pm
Who says the Shivans use metal? Their vessels could be grown like crystals...Hell, their vessels could even be chrystaline in nature...

Please dont start agruments with me over this...do it in another thread
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on May 20, 2008, 02:06:16 pm
Probably. Or maybe it is possible. Dunno about canon, but pure iron IIRC can't be damaged, bent, or something in heat. In other words- you can only change it's form when it's very cold. Well, whatever... It's a game. Realism doesn't eally apply to games.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 20, 2008, 02:07:35 pm
Bit of advice that someone once told me:

Dont let Karajorma hear you say that
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 20, 2008, 02:51:44 pm
lol...

I'd like to know if the damage inflicted by the Helios is comparable to a 5 gigatons nuke....any canon source/reliable theory?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 20, 2008, 02:55:29 pm
I'd like to know if the damage inflicted by the Helios is comparable to a 5 gigatons nuke....any canon source/reliable theory?
It's the Harbinger, not Helios. In the FS1 TD, it says it has a high payload (wonderful understatement) of 5000 megatons, which is 5 gigatons.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 20, 2008, 03:15:46 pm
Oh, sorry...I confused them...

That's impressive, but I would like to say something about the subject. In video games that aren't particularly realistic when something sustains damage(like FS...it's not like a realistic WWII sim)the value of hitpoints is always higher than the one that, in theory, a ship has.

Let's say that we have a ship firing a beam on another ship. The beam inflicts about 35-40% damage. In a realistic environment that shot is enough to take the ship down but in the game the ship's still there, with its hull integrity still above 50%. The same principles can be easily applied to spacecraft hit by missiles and ships hit by torpedoes. Imagine a fighter at full strength hit by a secondary...its hull integrity falls to <10%...seems quite obvious than in a realistic environment that shot would have been enough to destroy it. Same thing for a ship hit by a swarm of torpedoes.

Don't forget that in the FS Universe we have a Manticore shooting an Herc down with a few laser shots and a missile...we also have a Medusa pulverized after a missile impact...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 20, 2008, 03:18:35 pm
Game mechanics shouldn't be taken as a realistic value IMO. Like the Iceni doesn't actually have a special armor that doesn't let it take any more than 1% damage (it's called PLOT ARMOR).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on May 20, 2008, 05:55:44 pm
To right:
Its the Same with the speeds of the ships.

In real life an Orion or Sathanas travelling at top speed would leave fighters in the dust, instead of travelling at a measly 10-20m/s as in game.

I mean imagine what it would be like in real-life if you were in a disabled fighter (or cruiser) in the pat of a Gargant heading towards you at top speed... :eek: :eek2: :shaking:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 21, 2008, 11:45:04 am
In real life an Orion or Sathanas travelling at top speed would leave fighters in the dust, instead of travelling at a measly 10-20m/s as in game.
I'd have to disagree there. Fighters IMO would definitely be far faster than capital ships.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on May 21, 2008, 11:58:13 am
Fighters could certainly accelerate faster.  Speed really has nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 21, 2008, 12:02:14 pm
Newtonian physics makes everything pointless in a game really.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 21, 2008, 12:08:32 pm
In Colony Wars ships that were accelerating were incredibly faster than fighters. To some extent it happens in FS, too.

Big engines is what matters, you don't have the mass to deal with.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 21, 2008, 12:22:20 pm
Even if game mechanics are nothing to go by, I still think fighters should be more agile than capital ships, or it makes fighters completely useless.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 21, 2008, 12:26:28 pm
And you are right. The only bad thing here is about capship's speed, not particurarly realistic in FS.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mongoose on May 21, 2008, 12:45:31 pm
I've often wondered if the speeds we see during a mission aren't meant to represent relative speeds to a universal reference point (for instance, a jump node).  We know that capital ships are capable of orbiting planets, which last time I checked requires a speed just a tad greater than 15 meters per second; having that speed be relative to a reference frame (which would be non-inertial, since the whole system is in an orbital state) would let you get around that complication.  That still doesn't do anything for the "why do ships have max velocity" question, which is just inherently part of the game's non-Newtonian nature, but at least it makes things a bit more realistic.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 21, 2008, 03:40:37 pm
Thumbs up to that. Makes lotsa sense.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: CaptJosh on May 21, 2008, 04:52:59 pm
Agility is maneuverability. Fighters are by far more maneuverable than the ships.  And they're faster too. As it should be in something that's basically WWII style combat in space. Even in modern warfare, a fighter is much faster than a carrier or any other ship in the navy. One of the US Navy's nuclear carriers, Nimitz class, or even the Enterprise, which has no vessel class, as she was a prototype, with a public top speed of some 48 knots, probably really can pull about 60, and no problems with motors burning out like on the AEGIS cruisers and tin cans, who might keep up for a little while, but not long, whereas the carriers with the steam generated by nuclear reactors can sustain their top speed as long as the equipment will take the vibration. Even so, fighter craft go a LOT faster.Your basic F-14 takes off from a ground based runway at 150 Kts, and can break the sound barrier. The F-22 cruises about about 1.5 mach with no afterburner. Fighters being much faster than ships is expected. Hell, the USAF F-15 has a positive thrust to mass ratio, meaning it can accelerate in a sustained climb. Fighters are faster than capships and supercaps, period.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 22, 2008, 08:27:09 am
Agility is maneuverability. Fighters are by far more maneuverable than the ships.  And they're faster too. As it should be in something that's basically WWII style combat in space. Even in modern warfare, a fighter is much faster than a carrier or any other ship in the navy. One of the US Navy's nuclear carriers, Nimitz class, or even the Enterprise, which has no vessel class, as she was a prototype, with a public top speed of some 48 knots, probably really can pull about 60, and no problems with motors burning out like on the AEGIS cruisers and tin cans, who might keep up for a little while, but not long, whereas the carriers with the steam generated by nuclear reactors can sustain their top speed as long as the equipment will take the vibration. Even so, fighter craft go a LOT faster.Your basic F-14 takes off from a ground based runway at 150 Kts, and can break the sound barrier. The F-22 cruises about about 1.5 mach with no afterburner. Fighters being much faster than ships is expected. Hell, the USAF F-15 has a positive thrust to mass ratio, meaning it can accelerate in a sustained climb. Fighters are faster than capships and supercaps, period.

But that's because they're moving in the water or in the atmosphere. It's completely different in space - no friction and negligible gravity
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: CaptJosh on May 22, 2008, 03:04:07 pm
Yes, no friction. Just tons of mass and inertia to overcome. Fighters can move faster because they accelerate faster. Plus, you don't want to get capships moving that fast because then you have to stop them.  And, as you say, no friction in space. You have to fire retros against the motion. In a big ship, to stop quickly, you'd have to flip it end for end and fire the main engines against the direction of motion. FS2 doesn't really follow the laws of physics well in this respect, but it's true.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on May 22, 2008, 03:06:51 pm
Of course, speed is relative in space anyway.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on May 22, 2008, 06:19:03 pm
Petition for the Gargant's max speed to be 9001ms-1!  :P
That might break something though.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Admiral_Stones on May 23, 2008, 04:19:59 am
Petition for the Gargant's max speed to be 9001ms-1!  :P
That might break something though.

Yeah, right. Instead of the head of a 6 km long juggernaut crushing you at 200 m/s, you've got a 60 km long superjug atomizing you at 10000 m/s.

Write, write, write, finish your testament, pilot!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 23, 2008, 08:38:49 am
Isn't that 9000 m/s to the -1 power, which would be 1/9000 m/s?

Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 23, 2008, 09:20:52 am
How very dreadfully slow.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on May 23, 2008, 09:24:53 am
 :wtf:

Set it to 5 or 10 m/s and leave it at that.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 23, 2008, 10:05:36 am
Currently I believe it is something around 25 m/s
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on May 23, 2008, 05:43:12 pm
Isn't that 9000 m/s to the -1 power, which would be 1/9000 m/s?

No, its 9000 m x s-1, which means its m/s...it's just a different notation.
Its noted like that in the FSWiki:

ie. http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTF_Ulysses

Where did you learn your exponent laws?  :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on May 23, 2008, 05:49:31 pm
Where did you learn your exponent laws?  :P
American skool sistern.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 23, 2008, 10:23:57 pm
Before we jump on board with the generalizations, the American school system taught me exponent laws just fine.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on May 24, 2008, 09:29:30 am
Taking something to the -1 power gives its reciprocal, does it not?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on May 24, 2008, 12:19:00 pm
Yes. So seconds become 'per seconds', or 1/seconds. Thus, m * (S^-1) is 'meters per second'.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on May 24, 2008, 12:20:15 pm
Where did you learn your exponent laws?  :P
American skool sistern.

**** you. :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jouzin on June 05, 2008, 03:15:57 pm
hmm guys ? Can I download this nice big ship ? Could you give me download link pls ? I want to use this nice big :) ship in my campaign :) Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on June 05, 2008, 03:16:51 pm
I'm afraid it won't be released until INF SCP is out (not 'till 2010 at the earliest).  Sorry :(
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Titan on June 05, 2008, 03:17:29 pm
I'm afraid it won't be released until INF SCP is out (not 'till 2010 at the earliest).  Sorry :(

...2 years before we all die. (2012  ;) )
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on June 05, 2008, 03:21:53 pm
I want to use this nice big :) ship

If you want a big ship, the R1 Gigas and Nuke's Dante are available.  IMO "big" doesn't really describe the Gargant appropriately.  "rediculously****ingOMGcolossal" is more like it (it is dozens of km long :shaking:).  A ship that big can really only be used as a plot element.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Titan on June 05, 2008, 03:24:41 pm
or an excuse to crash your CPU. Whichever you feel like.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on June 05, 2008, 03:25:18 pm
You can get the pre-release SSJ Gigas. It needs a major retexturing, and it's weapons changed. But looks like the Gargant.

And we'll have 2 years to enjoy the INF SCP campaign before the Gargant arrives. :) :yes:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 05, 2008, 03:35:38 pm
it is dozens of km long :shaking:
37.8km to be precise... Why do I keep saying that?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on June 05, 2008, 03:50:05 pm
Because everyone is too lazy to look it up themselves... :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 05, 2008, 03:50:40 pm
Oh well, it makes me look intelligent anyway...


It does the opposite, doesn't it?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Titan on June 05, 2008, 04:56:18 pm
pre-release? you mean the proto-gigas from a celebration of FS?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 05, 2008, 04:57:07 pm
Yeah. The one that's a stretched Sath.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Uchuujinsan on June 06, 2008, 12:30:01 pm
To the discussion about the movement in Freespace, I always thought the reason there is a max speed is, that Freespace only "move" in the way electrons move around an atom - not really moving but "teleporting". They dont really get speed, they utilize their subspace engines to travel in real space without accelerating.
They dont use normal physics cause the reaction mass is a far to limiting factor for space combats, you would run out within minutes or even seconds.

Still doesnt explain why you are slowing down if you are knocked away -.-
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 06, 2008, 01:01:36 pm
You know why FS is like that? It's a game.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on June 06, 2008, 01:02:07 pm
It's pretty well understood that Freespace doesn't use real-world physics. Trying to find real-world explanations for stuff like that is really a waste of time.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 06, 2008, 01:06:18 pm
But it's still fun.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 06, 2008, 01:08:05 pm
It's a game.
I've heard rumours that using that particular argument has some dire results, hmm.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on June 11, 2008, 02:40:03 pm
Yes. Don't let Kara hear you say that  ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on June 11, 2008, 05:28:16 pm
it is dozens of km long :shaking:
37.8km to be precise... Why do I keep saying that?
That's three + dozen km. That basically qualifies as dozens. (Alright, its 3 and a bit, but meh).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Uchuujinsan on June 12, 2008, 10:58:04 am
But it's still fun.
Thats the reason why we do these pointless discussions :)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 13, 2008, 11:56:16 pm
They're not pointless. It keeps us occupied until the release of INF SCP. ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on June 14, 2008, 01:42:53 am
They're not pointless. It keeps us occupied until the release of INF SCP. ;)
:yes: True, that.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on June 14, 2008, 03:43:09 am
We'll run out of things to discuss about before that's released. See? I wanted to ask something about the Gargant with this useless post, but I got nothing more to ask that isn't a secret part of the storyline.  :p
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 14, 2008, 05:58:01 am
Woomeister doesn't even know if the Gargant will appear or not. Chapter 3 hasn't been planned out yet.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on June 14, 2008, 06:03:18 pm
What's the point of making it and not using it?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 14, 2008, 06:04:17 pm
It was made a very long time ago, before the final plot was straightened out.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Woomeister on June 14, 2008, 06:09:09 pm
It was made for the original Ancients chapter for a specific purpose which no longer exists.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on June 14, 2008, 11:40:50 pm
Well, it is a huge as ship, and that in itself has some coolness factor to it (especially since you can literally dogfight along its hull, as it will take some time to fly from one end to the other. Could have some interesting missions...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 15, 2008, 01:16:34 am
Since it's a Shivan Hive, couldn't it be regarded as the Shivans' homeworld? Or is that too messed up a plot device?  :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Admiral_Stones on June 15, 2008, 07:31:03 am
Since it's a Shivan Hive, couldn't it be regarded as the Shivans' homeworld? Or is that too messed up a plot device?  :nervous:

Meh, although 35.7 km long is semi-ridiculous, there's no way you can stuff an entire civilization into it. You'd need an entire armada of Gargants to stuff the Shivans into them.   Hm... maybe the Gargant got lost of the 'home-fleet', or is a Shivan rebel ship or such and the REAL Shivans are nice and cool and just want to dring tea and eat cookies with you.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 15, 2008, 07:34:00 am
the REAL Shivans are nice and cool and just want to dring tea and eat cookies with you.
That, and gettin' toasted. Nicely toasted.

Since we have a Gargant, I'd also like to see the Shivan equivalent of the Death Star. Only bigger and with numerous Beam Cannons of Ultimate Doomage.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 15, 2008, 09:15:43 am
That, and gettin' toasted. Nicely toasted.

Since we have a Gargant, I'd also like to see the Shivan equivalent of the Death Star. Only bigger and with numerous Beam Cannons of Ultimate Doomage.

:wtf:

You'll need to rope in George Lucas for that.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 15, 2008, 11:40:45 am
Meh, although 35.7 km long is semi-ridiculous, there's no way you can stuff an entire civilization into it. You'd need an entire armada of Gargants to stuff the Shivans into them.   Hm... maybe the Gargant got lost of the 'home-fleet', or is a Shivan rebel ship or such and the REAL Shivans are nice and cool and just want to dring tea and eat cookies with you.
38km actually.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on June 15, 2008, 12:12:02 pm
Since we have a Gargant, I'd also like to see the Shivan equivalent of the Death Star. Only bigger and with numerous Beam Cannons of Ultimate Doomage.

The closest thing Inferno has to that is the SPD Vinashaak. Capable, if I recall, of blowing up planets with a subspace rift weapon (and having superpowered Lucifer-type shields in order to survive the blast).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: CaptJosh on June 15, 2008, 01:22:42 pm
That sounds more like the Sun Crusher, to me.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 15, 2008, 01:25:12 pm
That sounds more like the Sun Crusher, to me.
No, the Sun Crusher was more like a fighter.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: CaptJosh on June 15, 2008, 01:27:18 pm
True. But the Death Star couldn't blow up a star. The Sun Crusher could.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on June 15, 2008, 01:30:38 pm
I want to fly a sun crusher. It can ram itself through a ship and come out the other side unharmed.

Besides, the SPD Vinashaak can't blow up stars. Only planets.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 15, 2008, 01:38:13 pm
True. But the Death Star couldn't blow up a star. The Sun Crusher could.
Yes, I know, I read the book.

I want to fly a sun crusher. It can ram itself through a ship and come out the other side unharmed.
I wonder how they would do that in-game... Really high $mass values I guess. :lol:

Besides, the SPD Vinashaak can't blow up stars. Only planets.
A few of them probably could.

Besides, the Vinashaak isn't in INFSCP anymore. Replaced by something far more badass (http://inferno.hard-light.net/Screens/Mod/Vidyadhar.jpg).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on June 15, 2008, 01:47:45 pm
OH MY GOD IS THAT A GIANT SQUID!?!?!?!1?1/1/11one
SSJ Vidyadhar? Where do you get all these funky names like Vindhyachal, Vinashaak and Vidyadhar anyway?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Admiral_Stones on June 15, 2008, 02:40:41 pm
Seriously, whats up with the pic quality? :wtf:

The names are probably all from religion/mythology 'n such sick stuff. Vindhyachal atleast is the name of a north indian town with some religious importance.

Hey, why don't you name another ship Morgarten or Sempbach? Swiss locations with great historic importance. Or even Gebenstorf, my home town, which will be of great importance when my religion (Patriciolism) will have spread through the world :drevil:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on June 15, 2008, 03:21:17 pm
The noise is intentional. They don't want you examining the GIANT SQUID! too closely.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Woomeister on June 15, 2008, 06:30:26 pm
It's big, it's bad and it likes to blow stuff up.

That about covers that ship...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on June 15, 2008, 07:59:32 pm
What differentiates the GIANT SQUID! from the SSJ Gigas besides look?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 15, 2008, 11:28:01 pm
It's bid, it's bad and it likes to blow stuff up.

That about covers that ship...
What differentiates the GIANT SQUID! from the SSJ Gigas besides look?

It has...
/me counts tentacles.

...FIVE prongs, and all of them probably fire a SBFRed or something like that. How many beams can a Gigas fire from its bow?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on June 15, 2008, 11:32:59 pm
The Gigas has two beamz of death™
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on June 16, 2008, 12:04:12 am
So...the GIANT SQUID! (because I can't remember how to spell vidayahar or whatever) is to the SSJ Gigas what the Amritaya is to the Sathanas?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Woomeister on June 16, 2008, 03:38:02 am

...FIVE prongs, and all of them probably fire a SBFRed or something like that.
Nope, no beams on those
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on June 16, 2008, 04:18:43 am
Anybody knows what an amritaya looks like? That and the diablo ssd?

Also, I heard the vinashaak would still be used somewhere in a user campaign. That's good!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 16, 2008, 05:38:08 am
Anybody knows what an amritaya looks like? That and the diablo ssd?

Also, I heard the vinashaak would still be used somewhere in a user campaign. That's good!

I think those are in INFR1... :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on June 16, 2008, 10:55:58 am
Yeah, those two are in INFR1
In fact, you have to take down a Diablo in one mission... The Diablo is also in ITDoH Ch3.
It looks like a tube with spikes and armor plates all over and a huge cannon at the front (BFRED)

The Amritaya looks like a spiky fortress thing.

However, I do wonder if these have been HTL'ed
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on June 16, 2008, 10:57:23 am
any pics?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 16, 2008, 11:01:18 am
Yeah, those two are in INFR1
In fact, you have to take down a Diablo in one mission... The Diablo is also in ITDoH Ch3.
It looks like a tube with spikes and armor plates all over and a huge cannon at the front (BFRED)

The Amritaya looks like a spiky fortress thing.

However, I do wonder if these have been HTL'ed

Uhh, Droid...I think the Diablo's main gun is a SBFRed.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on June 16, 2008, 11:42:50 am
In INF, the Diablo's main gun is a BFRed.  In ITDOH it is a SuperRed.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 16, 2008, 02:18:41 pm
However, I do wonder if these have been HTL'ed
The Diablo is out, replaced by the HTL Lucifer. The Amritaya now looks like a 3 armed Sath.

Nope, no beams on those
So it is a Vinashaak but cooler looking?

any pics?
They are in INFR1 so instead of getting pictures go get them and blow them up.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mars on June 28, 2008, 11:22:22 am
Don't think of Inferno as a catch all term for oversized ships, it's becoming much more.


Please enlighten me, because when I played Inferno R1, it was basically hold down the afterburner for an hour trying to cross the distance between 2 ridiculously sized ships, all while trying to get a lock-on while getting pummeled with kinetic weapons.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 28, 2008, 04:32:28 pm
That was INFR1. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on June 28, 2008, 04:36:20 pm
Yea. InfSCP is different- you fly alongside an almost invulnerable 300m long cruiser with BFbeams while pwned by kinetic weapons.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on June 28, 2008, 04:41:42 pm
lol what?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on June 28, 2008, 04:47:34 pm
Yea. InfSCP is different- you fly alongside an almost invulnerable 300m long cruiser with BFbeams while pwned by kinetic weapons.
The GTC Escargot.

(Actually more like the new Aescaus. I hear its ****ing evil now)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: terran_emperor on June 28, 2008, 11:54:57 pm
So you're cooking yourself to become a new cruiser? :wtf:

Just to clear things up I suggest a table Something like the following

Shipname
SSD Diablos
In INFR1
Yes
In INFSCP
No
Changes between versions
removed infavor of the HTL SSD Lucifer
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on June 29, 2008, 03:36:00 am
Yea. InfSCP is different- you fly alongside an almost invulnerable 300m long cruiser with BFbeams while pwned by kinetic weapons.

I die. :warp:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: firestorm8708 on July 27, 2008, 06:26:57 pm
Hi,
A stupid question... where can i see the Icanus, the Gargant... and all these enormus ships... ?
Because I have already done with Inferno R1 and the last mission ending with the arrival of the Gigas.. then return the the title screen...

I really want to see how the gtva and Ea will handle that !
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on July 27, 2008, 08:21:50 pm
:welcomesilver:

Unfortunately, the creators of the campaign decided to start over from scratch, and they haven't released any new campaigns or stories. (Please don't ask when they'll be done, all you'll get is "when it's done".)

The Icanus itself is in R1's techroom, and you'll find several pictures of the massive Gargant in the credits.

There's also pictures floating around this forum (more recent ones, like the redesigned versions of the Gigas and Amritaya).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on July 27, 2008, 08:24:02 pm
The thing in the title screen IS the Gargant...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on July 27, 2008, 08:25:42 pm
That too... but there are more pictures in the credits. :p
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: firestorm8708 on July 28, 2008, 04:54:21 am
well, none of these ship are in the tech room, neither in fred2 open...

I can only see ships encounter in the main campain, and a few other little ones.

Is there another release to download ? I have got 447 Mb in my inferno's folder, r1 release + scp's patch

So can you give me a link in order to dl a realease with all the ships in ? :$

Thx !

Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on July 28, 2008, 05:08:06 am
If you have that un-official Inferno upgrade by Shadow0000 ( I think I spelled it correctly ), then a lot of the ships are disabled.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: firestorm8708 on July 28, 2008, 06:33:01 am
is was so simple, i just have to move the vp of yhe unoficial update, and now it's working ! thx again !
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on July 29, 2008, 05:26:24 am
pictures of the scp gigas and amritaya?

Where did you see that?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on July 29, 2008, 05:29:05 am
You can catch it at random places

Is it just me though, or does the new Gigas look like a giant Rakshasa?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on July 29, 2008, 06:26:38 am
Is it just me though, or does the new Gigas look like a giant Rakshasa?
I think so too.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 29, 2008, 07:09:37 am
It probably still has that dagger-like front then, because the old Gigas looked a bit like the Rakshasa. :cool:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on July 29, 2008, 08:26:58 am
should anyone see the pics, please post the links.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on July 29, 2008, 10:32:12 am
You can find them easily by simply searching
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on July 29, 2008, 10:38:55 am
I would go find them for you, but I think it's high time people started doing that themselves.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on July 29, 2008, 10:43:02 am
I saw a small silent vid of the gigas, but aside from that...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on July 29, 2008, 11:39:20 am
You can catch it at random places

Is it just me though, or does the new Gigas look like a giant Rakshasa?

It doesn't just LOOK like a giant Rakshasa. it is a giant Rakshasa.

(http://inferno.hard-light.net/Screens/GigasR4-6.jpg)


And this is the Three-Armed Sath known as the SJ Amritaya.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/SadisticSid/amri.jpg)

Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on July 29, 2008, 11:48:33 am
My oh my!
grandma, what big cannons you got! ;7
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: mr.WHO on July 29, 2008, 01:15:13 pm
The Gigas not only looks like giant Rakshasa, but also like giant Rakshsa that hit the breakes in front of giant Moloch which cause both vechicles to melt into eachother :D
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on July 29, 2008, 01:19:39 pm
Icanus appears to have an issue known as overtiling :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 29, 2008, 01:35:25 pm
Always did. With 20 km, it's hard to make a ship perfectly detailed and not-tiled looking.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on July 29, 2008, 03:05:33 pm
overtiling? mind to enlighten a useless newb? :doubt:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on July 29, 2008, 06:28:58 pm
Overtiling means the same section of the same texture is repeated too many times over the hull. Or something along those lines.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on July 29, 2008, 06:33:58 pm
If it did look overtiled from a distance, it would look all blurry close up, and since you'd be doing most missions close to the Icanus, it's better like that.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on July 29, 2008, 06:36:29 pm
Well, how doe the Gigas get away with it? (or is it that the gigas is less overtiled because you're usually far away from it?)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on July 29, 2008, 06:50:13 pm
I'm guessing the Sath textures are better.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 29, 2008, 07:14:05 pm
You can catch it at random places

Is it just me though, or does the new Gigas look like a giant Rakshasa?
It doesn't just LOOK like a giant Rakshasa. it is a giant Rakshasa.

(http://inferno.hard-light.net/Screens/GigasR4-6.jpg)

And this is the Three-Armed Sath known as the SJ Amritaya.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/SadisticSid/amri.jpg)

Lovely. :yes: :cool: :D

I'm guessing the Sath textures are better.

Or is it because it's black and red? :drevil:

On the Amritaya...is it stronger or weaker than the Sathanas now?

Does the Kismat still look the same as compared to INFR1, or has it changed as well?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on July 29, 2008, 07:50:33 pm
On the Amritaya...is it stronger or weaker than the Sathanas now?
The Amritaya has quite a bit more firepower but lacks a subspace weapon.

Does the Kismat still look the same as compared to INFR1, or has it changed as well?
Same model, different maps.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 29, 2008, 09:29:18 pm
On the Amritaya...is it stronger or weaker than the Sathanas now?
The Amritaya has quite a bit more firepower but lacks a subspace weapon.

Does the Kismat still look the same as compared to INFR1, or has it changed as well?
Same model, different maps.

Same old, same old. :yes:

I like the Kismat. It looks original.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on July 30, 2008, 03:58:22 am
the amritaya looks nasty!

me likes! ;7
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 31, 2008, 04:04:36 am
The new Amritaya reminds me of a stretched Sathanas... :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2008, 05:22:06 am
The new Gigas is more disappointing than the original. It looks like a Rakshasa and a Moloch combined. It doesn't look very original is the problem. But the original Gigas (the one released with Inferno in 2003, not the very first stretched Sathanas one) was more original. I wish the 2003 Gigas was brought back instead of having this Moloch/Rakshasa looking version. Meaning keep the 2003 Gigas model and then maybe change some maps.

Also, the new Amritaya is too much like the Sathanas and not original looking either. Maybe the creators of Inferno ran out of modelling ideas? Having a non-original Gigas and Amritaya will reduce the quality of INF SCP. I suggest bringing back the 2003 Gigas model with SCP map enhancements and making a completely different model for the Amritaya before releasing INF SCP.
That certainly is not happening on both counts.

The original models of both were horrible, in fact the original Gigas (minus submodels) was like under 800 polys. You haven't seen the best pictures of the new Amritaya, it looks a lot better from different angles. It might look a bit like a Sathanas, but trust me it is millions of times better than the old one. Seriously, the old one makes me sick.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 08, 2008, 06:34:31 am
That certainly is not happening on both counts.

The original models of both were horrible, in fact the original Gigas (minus submodels) was like under 800 polys. You haven't seen the best pictures of the new Amritaya, it looks a lot better from different angles. It might look a bit like a Sathanas, but trust me it is millions of times better than the old one. Seriously, the old one makes me sick.

We wonder why, although I do note that the old Amritaya was symmetrical. :nervous:

Will it have the same firepower on the new model?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2008, 09:13:08 am
We wonder why, although I do note that the old Amritaya was symmetrical. :nervous:
It's not symmetrical, and it looked like some kind of cluster**** of you-know-whats.

Will it have the same firepower on the new model?
I think it has 1 SBFRed and 3 BFReds, or something like that.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: mr.WHO on August 08, 2008, 11:57:55 am
Does anyone have shots of R1 SJ Amritaya to compare ??
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Titan on August 08, 2008, 12:30:13 pm
the kismat is still original? ugh... no offense, but....
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2008, 01:55:06 pm
Hey, don't insult the kismat.
Its one of the better-looking INFR1 ships!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on August 08, 2008, 02:15:58 pm
Hey, don't insult the kismat.
Its one of the better-looking INFR1 ships!

That's a matter of opinion :doubt:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2008, 02:32:51 pm
Well, true.
I like it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on August 08, 2008, 05:24:23 pm
I've never actually seen the Raguel. Screenshots, please?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2008, 05:29:23 pm
Looks like a block. With a bowl in the front with a beam cannon inside.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on August 08, 2008, 05:32:41 pm
It also has arms sticking out of the sides.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 09, 2008, 12:10:32 am
The old Raguel reminded me of, what, a bean bag? :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 09, 2008, 01:27:13 am
I think the Raguel is a good design because it's kind of like the Shivan Aeolus. :)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on August 09, 2008, 01:48:13 am
I'd rather have a Lamia as a Shivan Aeolus.
It looks much better. (At least it's not  a block with a bowl and arms).

The SFg Damini also had a bowl, but that never showed up.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 09, 2008, 02:25:12 am
I'd rather have a Lamia as a Shivan Aeolus.
It looks much better. (At least it's not  a block with a bowl and arms).

The SFg Damini also had a bowl, but that never showed up.

Lamia? Got a picture of that?

The Damini is a bowl with claws. Please do not tell me that all those claws have beam weaponry on them... :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on August 09, 2008, 02:44:46 am
<snip>
You know what? I agree with most, if not all, of that stuff. But since we do not have a modeller on the team, a few of our ships are going to show up very similar to some of the old stuff. If we get a new modeller on the team I hope that changes, but for now we'll just have to deal with it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on August 09, 2008, 11:59:08 am
@Androgeos Exeunt: the SC Lamia -  http://www.axemspace.com/sc-lamia.html

@High Max: There's already a good Amritaya. I like the new one, the old bowl-things made me want to puke - the only bowl I could stand was the Diablo's, since it had gaps in it. The Iblis still exists in INFSCP AFAIK, it just looks like a "morphed Ravana with a demon head", which is, frankly, a whole lot of a better idea that a block with legs and a cylinder at the front.
Also, I doubt the Dante will look right shrunk.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 09, 2008, 06:51:02 pm
I don't like the Dante in most applications, in BP and NukeMod it fits, but it's not Shivan, it looks more Victorian.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 10, 2008, 03:12:55 am
I don't like the Dante in most applications, in BP and NukeMod it fits, but it's not Shivan, it looks more Victorian.

No, it looks more like a Vasudan design. Shivan designs are pretty insect-like or have claws. The Lucifer, for example, is an ant.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on August 10, 2008, 03:34:53 am
Snail, would it be a good idea to replace the current Amritaya with the Dante from Blue Planet? It would be easy enough to just take that model and resize it to be of similar size to a Sathanas and maybe even change some maps if wanted. The Dante seems to be less like the Sathanas compared to the current Amritaya. Would the Dante be considered ugly since the back of that model looks out of proportion? I could say for example that since the Amritaya looks much like the Sathanas, it would appear to have the same role as the Sathanas, but if there are two juggernaut classes of the same species, that would mean they would have to have different roles. If they look a lot different than each other, then you can tell they have different roles. Also, if it looks much different, it makes it not as boring  ;) So is it possible you would consider using the Dante in Inferno as the Amritaya?
No, we won't be using the Dante. It doesn't fit with our Inferno pack. Plus it has all those weird spike turret things, which we would have to delete to make it use our current Shivan weapons turret uniform. We'll most likely be keeping the Amritaya unless a really good model comes by that fits our needs.

@High Max: There's already a good Amritaya. I like the new one, the old bowl-things made me want to puke - the only bowl I could stand was the Diablo's, since it had gaps in it. The Iblis still exists in INFSCP AFAIK, it just looks like a "morphed Ravana with a demon head", which is, frankly, a whole lot of a better idea that a block with legs and a cylinder at the front.
Also, I doubt the Dante will look right shrunk.
The old Amritaya didn't have bowls, did it? I didn't see any, but that's probably because the old Amritaya was a cluster**** (literally). The new Iblis would be better described as a Demon with the Ravana's spikes... Kinda like a flipped Ravana sorta thing. Ehh, dunno.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 10, 2008, 03:44:54 am
When you say cluster****, Snail, are you referring to the rear of the old Amritaya? That part is an eyesore. :blah:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on August 10, 2008, 03:49:02 am
When you say cluster****, Snail, are you referring to the rear of the old Amritaya? That part is an eyesore. :blah:
The whole of the old Amritaya.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 10, 2008, 03:57:30 am
New Icanus model in the works or old model+new maps?
 
(Ps i always read it as icy anus) :lol:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on August 10, 2008, 04:50:42 am
New Icanus model in the works or old model+new maps?
Possibly...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 10, 2008, 05:43:30 am
New Icanus model in the works or old model+new maps?
Possibly...

Ambiguity is ambiguous :doubt:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on August 10, 2008, 05:50:22 am
Ambiguity is ambiguous :doubt:
Fine, there's a good candidate that's available but it'd entail a radical redesign (Woo said something about it about a year ago in some thread, so it's safe to say nothing's happened or Woo's not telling us).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 10, 2008, 05:55:45 am
Cool, thanks Snail. :yes: clarifcation clarifies :D
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 10, 2008, 07:09:52 am
The only One of the consolations (Whoops, what was I thinking?) about INFR1 working under FS2_Open is that the glowmaps work on certain portions of the new Shivan ships. :)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on August 10, 2008, 09:30:37 am
The only consolation about INFR1 is that the SCP glowmaps work on certain portions of the new Shivan ships. :blah:
Why does everyone always bash INFR1? Why don't I see people bashing Derelict for Poseidon 7 appearing too early on the escort list?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 10, 2008, 09:38:28 am
Geez, Snail, it's a compliment. :eek2:

If I said I didn't like the voice acting in Derelict... :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2008, 11:44:16 am
I recently replayed INFR1. Although the story is thin and the mission design plain, it clearly pushed the envelope as to what was possible (for the time it was released), and the willingness to radically redesign ships and weapons was really cool.

I think INFR1 was an important campaign. There's no reason to bash it. Like Derelict or anything else from its time, it's showing its age -- but that just shows that we've made some progress since then.

Plus, the EA is, well, really cool. I want to fly Claymores. (They really gave the impression that the EA did, in fact, have an elite pilot corps.)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 10, 2008, 11:05:39 pm
You CAN fly a CLaymore; drag the main INFR1 file out into the main FreeSpace 2 folder and open up FRED2. It should work so long as you use the retail FRED2. I've tried to create a mission detailing the launch of the TSJ Icanus, but I never finished it. It should be on my sister's hard-drive somewhere...

Found it. It looks like an older revision, since the Ancient cruiser is missing. Nevertheless, it should work, although it's not complete in any way. Default ship is the EAF Claymore.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on August 11, 2008, 12:03:44 am
Unfortunately, as matters stand right now I don't have access to my usual PC, and FRED doesn't work on Mac. I appreciate the mission, though! I'll check it out.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on August 11, 2008, 01:00:26 am
Play SAH?
The later chapters you fly in claymores, almost exclusively. (well, you get to fly the Stentor, and when that comes in, I always take it due to the fact it has the best gunmounts)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 11, 2008, 02:35:21 am
I was reading the tech description of the Stentor a few days ago in INFR1, and it seems to glorify the fighter.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on August 11, 2008, 03:21:06 am
I was reading the tech description of the Stentor a few days ago in INFR1, and it seems to glorify the fighter.
The Stentor has 5 gunmounts in INFR1, which gives it more firepower than the other interceptors. Its central gunmount is also the absolute best for hitting bombs in-flight. Other than that, yeah, it is a piece of crap.

Geez, Snail, it's a compliment. :eek2:
Well, you said "the only consolation", which makes me feel saaaaaaaaaad. :(
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 11, 2008, 03:40:14 am
Well, you said "the only consolation", which makes me feel saaaaaaaaaad. :(

Oh ****, fixed.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on August 11, 2008, 11:44:54 am
Huh, you people like the Claymores better than the Stentor!?
I can't hit a cruiser properly with all 8 guns on a Claymore mk2. Its like a Seraphim...
Don't get me started on the Claymore mk1. Its firepower is PATHETIC, and it turns so fast I can't aim with it at all. (not to mention I end up crashing into stuff).

M<eh, its prolly cause I just suck and stick to the noob-friendly ships.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: mr.WHO on August 11, 2008, 04:30:10 pm
We all hate R1 claymores :D
but
somethings tell me that well gonna love INF:SCP (and maybe INF:A2 earlier) Claymores :D
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on August 11, 2008, 10:17:02 pm
I can't hit a cruiser properly with all 8 guns on a Claymore mk2. Its like a Seraphim...
If I got a penny for every time I said that, there wouldn't be a single poor hooker in the world.... Wait... Oooops... :nervous:

Don't get me started on the Claymore mk1. Its firepower is PATHETIC, and it turns so fast I can't aim with it at all. (not to mention I end up crashing into stuff).
Do you use a mouse or joystick? You could always change the sensitivity in the options menu.

M<eh, its prolly cause I just suck and stick to the noob-friendly ships.
What, like the Keres? :drevil:

somethings tell me that well gonna love INF:SCP (and maybe INF:A2 earlier) Claymores :D
You'll love them in INFA2, but loathe them in INFSCP.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on August 11, 2008, 10:57:29 pm
I'm on a joystick, but turning down sensitivity makes bombers even more unresponsive.

I haven't tried the Keres (is it the thing with too many gunpoints?).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on August 12, 2008, 01:13:42 am
I'm on a joystick, but turning down sensitivity makes bombers even more unresponsive.
Then you crank it back up when you're flying a bomber. :P

I haven't tried the Keres (is it the thing with too many gunpoints?).
16 isn't too much. I'd draw the line at 70.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 12, 2008, 05:01:14 am
I haven't tried the Keres (is it the thing with too many gunpoints?).
16 isn't too much. I'd draw the line at 70.

Drag the INFR1 main file out into your root FS2 folder and run FRED2.

I love 16 guns. Keep it that way, please. :yes:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 12, 2008, 07:51:34 am
I haven't tried the Keres (is it the thing with too many gunpoints?).
16 isn't too much. I'd draw the line at 70.

Drag the INFR1 main file out into your root FS2 folder and run FRED2.

I love 16 guns. Keep it that way, please. :yes:
Why would you drag it into the main folder to use FRED? Simply make a shortcut to FRED, right click on the shortcut, and add "-mod INFR1" (without quotations) to the end of the application path.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 12, 2008, 08:03:36 am
Why would you drag it into the main folder to use FRED? Simply make a shortcut to FRED, right click on the shortcut, and add "-mod INFR1" (without quotations) to the end of the application path.

Because I'm too lazy to create a shortcut with parameters? :nervous:

In any case, I don't FRED very often these days mostly because there is no Mac version of FRED. Not that I'm asking for one, anyway... :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 12, 2008, 08:21:11 am
Use Wine. Doesn't that work on Macs?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 12, 2008, 09:42:06 am
:wtf:

No
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on August 12, 2008, 09:44:05 am
Wikipedia is Wikipedia, but it suggests that the Mac port of WINE is well-maintained.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 12, 2008, 09:54:04 am
:wtf:

No
OSX is unix-based (BSD) and will work with Wine.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 13, 2008, 04:06:49 am
Wikipedia is Wikipedia, but it suggests that the Mac port of WINE is well-maintained.

Oh, I thought you were referring to the drink... :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on August 13, 2008, 04:08:46 am
Wikipedia is Wikipedia, but it suggests that the Mac port of WINE is well-maintained.

Oh, I thought you were referring to the drink... :nervous:
I was.

 :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 13, 2008, 04:14:24 am
Well, Wine Is Not an Emulator.

...although that's as good as saying "LAME Ain't an MP3 Encoder". ;)

Thanks for bringing Wine up. I'll take a look at it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Vasudan Commander on September 23, 2008, 08:36:39 am
So is the Gargant ever going to be used in Inferno missions?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 23, 2008, 10:46:06 am
Depends. It could happen in later chapters of INF SCP but I can only imagine how many years it'll take for such chapters(and INF SCP)to be released... :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Vasudan Commander on September 23, 2008, 05:11:35 pm
Damn Shame. There were so many awesome models in INF but were never used (that giant shivan bomber that looked like a spider would've been particularly interesting to take on)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on September 23, 2008, 05:22:15 pm
Vindhyachals?
Play ITDOH. You have to fight them there.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 23, 2008, 05:24:20 pm
OI!

:necro:

Vindhyachals?
Play ITDOH. You have to fight them there.

What's ITDOH?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on September 23, 2008, 05:30:30 pm
Who necro'ed?

ITDOH = Into The Depths of Hell
http://www.freespacemods.net/download.php?view.64
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 23, 2008, 05:43:09 pm
Who necro'ed?

Vasudan Commander
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Vasudan Commander on September 24, 2008, 05:33:01 am
Who necro'ed?

Vasudan Commander

I necro'ed for a legit reason and question and i felt that there was no need to start a new thread. Dont hate me for it.   :sigh:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 25, 2008, 03:51:57 am
It's legitimate, and I don't hate you for it. However, you did not use :bump:.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 25, 2008, 05:37:58 am
INFR1 also featured an Ancient bomber with capabilities similar to that of the "gian Shivan bomber that looked like a spider"... ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 26, 2008, 11:06:04 am
INFR1 also featured an Ancient bomber with capabilities similar to that of the "gian Shivan bomber that looked like a spider"... ;)
Ugh, Satyrs. IMO even more annoying than Vindhyachals...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on September 26, 2008, 11:09:08 am
Probably because they got the armour of a Fenris. More actually.

Well, not anymore.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on September 26, 2008, 12:19:17 pm
Vindhyachals has like...5000 shield points.
Satyrs have 12400 HP. Which is worse? I don't know.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 26, 2008, 12:25:49 pm
I really enjoyed using the Satyr...I made a mission and put there most classes of Shivan ships in Inferno(except for the Gigas) and blew them up with my nice Ancient bomber... ;7
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on September 26, 2008, 03:22:53 pm
The Satyr. Because it's an annoying, rather small, fast, strong, and more heavily armoured Fenris.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 27, 2008, 08:43:06 am
I'd like superbombers to have four or more turrets...I'd like them to be like WWII heavy bombers, although mine is a kind of weird idea...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 27, 2008, 10:15:51 am
I'd like superbombers to have four or more turrets...I'd like them to be like WWII heavy bombers, although mine is a kind of weird idea...

Try flying a Seraphim then. Eleven gunpoints. :drevil:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on September 27, 2008, 11:03:14 am
The Seraphim puts out a wall of fire...but can't hit anything with it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 27, 2008, 11:58:03 am
The Seraphim puts out a wall of fire...but can't hit anything with it.
A wall of Shivan Light Lasers.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on September 27, 2008, 01:27:09 pm
Give one Shivan Seraphim bomber wing all banks filled with Maxims and Shivan megabombs. Try and stop a single wing of them from nuking a Hecate or something.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 27, 2008, 02:34:29 pm
Oh yeah, 'cause in Inferno Shivan ships use Terran and Vasudan weapons :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 27, 2008, 03:42:58 pm
Oh yeah, 'cause in Inferno Shivan ships use Terran and Vasudan weapons :P
(for any fools who didn't notice he was being sarcastic there)

Give one Shivan Seraphim bomber wing all banks filled with Maxims and Shivan megabombs. Try and stop a single wing of them from nuking a Hecate or something.
Give me a few A.C.Rs and Ripper cannons and they'll be dead in seconds.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 28, 2008, 12:41:39 am
A.C.Rs. are lovely. I like to force my secondary banks to them just so I can smack the EA up. :drevil:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 28, 2008, 02:53:57 am
There's an even better version in INFA. You can find a few screenshots of them if you look hard enough.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 28, 2008, 03:10:32 am
In the INFA trailer you can see an Abel being attacked by several salvos of ACRs...lol, the explosions cover the cruiser... ;7
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 28, 2008, 03:20:51 am
Too bad the AI has a nasty habit of killing their wing leader with them.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 28, 2008, 03:58:22 am
The AI doesn't launch massive salvos of ACRs, either. The player is always better at using them...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Vasudan Commander on September 28, 2008, 04:19:34 am
Has there ever been a warship created thats bigger then the Gargant?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 28, 2008, 04:21:01 am
There's a special warship that is far bigger than the Gargant but is only a bitmap...

I don't know if there are installations as big as the Gargant(maybe the Atlantis?)...but yeah, the Gargant's the bigger warship.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 28, 2008, 04:21:24 am
Has there ever been a warship created thats bigger then the Gargant?
Well, there was a scrapped ship for an unknown race in Inferno that was 150km. No turrets.

There's a special warship that is far bigger than the Gargant but is only a bitmap...
Uhh, no it wasn't a bitmap. It was an actual model, but was used as a background prop (ie. not involved in fighting but still a model).

I don't know if there are installations as big as the Gargant(maybe the Atlantis?)...but yeah, the Gargant's the bigger warship.
I think the Hara and Atlantis are bigger than the Gargy.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 28, 2008, 04:24:23 am
The Hara is not...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 28, 2008, 04:27:09 am
Volume wise, it is. Plus one of its axes it is longer than the Gargant's entire length.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 28, 2008, 04:40:52 am
How did you check that?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 28, 2008, 04:56:51 am
Modelview? The Pandy's longest axis is 42.8 km, while the Gargant is (IIRC) 37.8km.

Either way, 38.6km x 34.6km x 42.8km is undoubtedly larger, volume wise, than the Gargant, who's length is only 37.8km, and who's width and height are smaller than its length.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on September 28, 2008, 05:01:03 am
Pyrgos
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 28, 2008, 05:23:12 am
The Gargant is a sleek design...it's a warship...the Hara basically is a Shivan colony with no armaments...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Vasudan Commander on September 28, 2008, 06:51:20 am
Has there ever been a warship created thats bigger then the Gargant?
Well, there was a scrapped ship for an unknown race in Inferno that was 150km. No turrets.


Where the hell is that ? O_o more like...WHAT was that ?!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 28, 2008, 07:11:26 am
Nobody knows except for Woomeister and a few old farts.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on September 28, 2008, 02:16:03 pm
and yet we are always reminded that the gargant is not the biggest warship in the shivan armada. What could this possibly mean?? :D

I once heard of a name: behemoth. (nothing in common with the cain in FS2).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 28, 2008, 02:18:27 pm
Speaking of warships and warships alone, the Gargant's the biggest and the toughest of them all...

The SC Behemoth was a Rakshasa, not a Cain :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 28, 2008, 03:29:33 pm
Speaking of warships and warships alone, the Gargant's the biggest and the toughest of them all...
Woomeister has expressed interest in creating something bigger........ ;7
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 28, 2008, 03:31:53 pm
Hey, this is fantastic! ;7

INF would win any scenario(INF Vs. FreeSpace, INF Vs. Star Wars...and even INF Vs. Dragon Ball :lol:)...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 28, 2008, 03:32:57 pm
INF would win any scenario(INF Vs. FreeSpace, INF Vs. Star Wars...and even INF Vs. Dragon Ball :lol:)...
The last one makes me feel nauseous.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on September 28, 2008, 03:39:37 pm
[*snip*]INF would win any scenario(INF Vs. FreeSpace, INF Vs. Star Wars...and even INF Vs. Dragon Ball :lol:)...[/shadow][/i][/color]
The last one makes me feel nauseous.
Bah. I'm sure Naruto could singlehandedly break any ship with the Rasengan.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mongoose on September 28, 2008, 03:42:12 pm
No...he'd just emo out over Sasuke always one-upping him and Sakura not loving him, or something equally pathetic.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on September 28, 2008, 03:46:44 pm
... Or that. In which case I'm sure even the Gargant would go and hang itself.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 28, 2008, 04:07:57 pm
Eww....
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 28, 2008, 04:31:21 pm
:wtf:

Snail, come to INFA Internal...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 28, 2008, 09:25:34 pm
Can the Gargant fit into a Knossos?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on September 28, 2008, 09:27:08 pm
Can the Gargant fit into a Knossos?

I :doubt: that the Gigas could fit through a Knossos.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on September 28, 2008, 09:51:35 pm
I doubt that a Sath can, even.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on September 28, 2008, 09:53:54 pm
Can the Gargant fit into a Knossos?
I've got two comments for that.  First, I seem to recall that the Gargant, like the Gigas, has an internalized Knossos system, so it wouldn't need one to make a jump through an unstable or collapsed node.  Second, that statement could very easily lead the discussion towards a thread locking.  :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on September 29, 2008, 02:50:27 am
hmm, sorry, my bad: a rakshasa it is indeed. not to mix up with the goliath.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 29, 2008, 03:56:48 am
The Goliath is a Cain-class cruiser.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on September 29, 2008, 07:57:24 am
If you take the ending a certain way in Freespace 2, then the Sathanas can make intersystem jumps without using nodes at all. The Shivans don't need a Knossos, period. All their ships can travel through unstable nodes. Remember when it said that in Freespace 2? The Shivans have been known to have traveled through uncharted nodes and nodes too unstable for Terran and Vasudan vessels. Then it goes to say that command thinks they are as dependent on jump nodes as the alliance is. But it said that during the Great War, they may have made intersystem jumps without using nodes in Ikeya, Ross 128, etc. Like when they somehow circumvented Terran/Vasudan blockades like it said a breifing in FS1. Then at the ending cutscene of Capella blowing up, it is revealed that the Sathanas and maybe some vessels lower in class can make intersystem jumps without using nodes. Why can't the community see that they can make these jumps without nodes? I'm sure Volition intended us to take it that way when we see the Sathanas' jump out of the system without using nodes before the Capella star explodes. They return to Shivan space without a node or jump from that point of the capella system to Gamma Draconis through the node but not directly into it (maybe an intra/intersystem jump in one. As long as one node exists in the system "unstable or not" they can make an intra/intersystem jump at the same time). Jump from any part of the Capella system and into any part of the Gamma Draconis system. Like the effects of an inter and intrasystem jump rolled into one making it so you can jump from Capalla into Gamma Draconis in one step instead of 3 steps. I'm sure that Volition put the "Skeptics argue that the Shivans made intersystem jumps without using nodes" comment in the command breifing towards the end for a reason. Maybe the Shivans only use this ability in extreme emergencies though since it may consume a lot of energy, which would explain why they didn't use the ability until the end. In other words, creating temporary intersystem nodes for one time travel in front of the ship like at the end of Freespace 2 when they escaped. The ability to create subspace. Afterall, didn't the ending of FS1 say that Shivans can rebuild jump points back to Earth if they wanted to (the Shivans can rebuild them)? Like they can create nodes? They seem to be powerful enough to make them since they can blow up stars using subspace. Shivans may have created subspace itself? Who knows? Since they demonstrated a great ability to use subspace, it isn't far fetched to say they can do much more with subspace. Maybe subspace energy is what powers their vessels and they either somehow create subspace (subspace energy) or can manipulate subspace in anyway you can imagine.

Maybe the community can't see this because you don't use any paragraph breaks! Paragraphs, man, paragraphs.

Also, we have no idea whether the Saths were actually making some kind of intersystem jump at the end of FS2. It's an assumption.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 29, 2008, 10:23:30 am
I don't need a paragraph break. The subject had not changed.
Paragraphs make it easier on the eyes, easier to read.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on September 29, 2008, 10:28:58 am
I don't need a paragraph break. The subject had not changed.
In the same manner scientific articles do not need paragraphs, since they most often handle just one issue.

Not having paragraphs is exhausting for the reader. You need those tiny little breaks so that you can "breathe" for a while before continuing to read.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 29, 2008, 11:47:08 am
I refuse to read that post until you give it paragraphs.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on September 29, 2008, 04:51:53 pm
What they said.

Particularly important on the Internet and computer screens, where it's easy to lose your place.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on September 30, 2008, 12:32:05 am
I prefer to believe that the Shivans didn't make nodeless jumps during the Great War, rather they used nodes that the Terrans and Vasudans didn't know about and still don't.  Perhaps they were low-stability nodes and resided below the detection threshold of the sensor systems available to the Terrans and Vasudans.

In regards to the Capella incident, I see it two ways.  The first, is that when the Saths jumped out, they were merely jumping to another location within Capella to avoid the shockwave.  The other is that the supernova did something to local subspace, opening some kind of rift that the Saths were able to jump through.  It would seem to fit with the general notion from the final cutscene, where Petrarch speculates that the Shivans needed to destroy the Capellean sun to get home.  Its the general belief among the community that there was more to the triggering of the supernova than a simple weapon of mass, mass, mass destruction.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 30, 2008, 02:13:03 am
There are many volatile nodes in T-V space...both Terrans and Vasudans use nodes that are supposed to remain stable for a century or more.

The Shivans have advanced subspace technology and don't care about losses - under these circumstances they're likely to use volatile nodes. Maybe, for the Shivans, volatile nodes are simply "slightly unsafe" nodes. They surely know how to use subspace.

And damn it, Gary....paragraphs!!!  :shaking:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 30, 2008, 02:26:51 am
Already fix that paragraph issue, Mobius.

No because the post that preceeded mine isn't readable and the one that followed mine is almost readable.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on September 30, 2008, 02:46:34 am
FS1 outro... narrator (stated to be "you" in the FS Ref Bible) says "but the Shivans can rebuild them" or some **** like that.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 30, 2008, 02:48:34 am
The Knossos stabilizes jump nodes as well...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on September 30, 2008, 03:12:46 am
I guess. But neither of those necessarily means the ability to create a jump node where none previously existed.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 30, 2008, 03:16:14 am
Yes, that sentence from FS1's Endgame is a bit of meh...it gives for sure that the GTA needs the Shivans to reopen the Sol jump node... :wtf:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on September 30, 2008, 08:00:04 am
Mobius, High Max's post is fine now. Let him be!

Though I will say, High Max, that those paragraph lengths they teach in school are completely flexible, and more suited for academic writing than Internet discourse.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on September 30, 2008, 08:29:23 am
Has anyone given a thought as to what the shivan "core" unit might be like? the thing (provided they function as a hive pattern) around which they would birth/organise? planet? star? supership? installation?

Has anyone made theories as to that and as to what a "last" encounter with the shivans might look like?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on September 30, 2008, 09:31:03 am
Has anyone given a thought as to what the shivan "core" unit might be like? the thing (provided they function as a hive pattern) around which they would birth/organise? planet? star? supership? installation?

Has anyone made theories as to that and as to what a "last" encounter with the shivans might look like?

In all probability it would look like the annihilation of the human race.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on September 30, 2008, 04:55:15 pm
Being the Inferno forum, I'd like to suggest that the final conflict with the Shivans would involve the GTVA (with Alpha 1 in a beam fighter), the EA (with fifty Icanuses) and time-travelling Ancients (with SuperCaps of all kinds) fighting 1 new Shivan supar ship 10 Gargants, and 50 Gigases simultaneously, powered by FreeSpace Open build 3.8.24-INF.


Err... Sorry... :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on September 30, 2008, 07:03:53 pm
 :lol:

Battle of Endor^3?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 30, 2008, 07:07:41 pm
No because there's no trace of fighters. :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on September 30, 2008, 07:28:21 pm
Or use low level LODs and switch to FS Close(the contrary of FS Open, that brings FS back to the 80s in terms of gaming technology).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on September 30, 2008, 09:01:47 pm
I think he knows that.

That's why Mobius made the joke.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mongoose on September 30, 2008, 09:26:34 pm
By the way, in the 80's, all there was were sprites as far as I know. It wouldn't be Freespace if lowered to that tech level. It couldn't play like that in 3D and that means all the gaming elements that make it Freespace couldn't exist. It would be like original NES where if it did show what you could call 3D, it was all sprite based and each room would be only 3 frames and you could only walk forward (referring to the original Contra, level 2 and 4, as the example). That would make a Freespace game impossible and no gameplay features that make Freespace what it is could exist. For example, there could be no dog fighting. Plus, there would be no way to aim and hit your target at such a poor frame rate and the ships couldn't be models, among other limitations.
Don't forget that the original Wing Commander came out in 1990, and that managed to pull off space-based combat using nothing but sprites. ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 30, 2008, 09:59:27 pm
Wing Commander is quite like doing a drawing on MS Paint, if you put it that way. ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mongoose on September 30, 2008, 10:55:48 pm
The FS series definitely drew inspiration from Wing Commander (or so I've heard, since I haven't played any of that series myself), as well as the old Star Wars sims (which I sadly haven't played either).  The general consensus I can gather from the reviews of the day is that FS (and in particular, FS2) didn't innovate so much as gather the best elements of the genre into one game and polish them very well.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 01, 2008, 11:18:34 pm
The other is that the supernova did something to local subspace, opening some kind of rift that the Saths were able to jump through.  It would seem to fit with the general notion from the final cutscene, where Petrarch speculates that the Shivans needed to destroy the Capellean sun to get home.  Its the general belief among the community that there was more to the triggering of the supernova than a simple weapon of mass, mass, mass destruction.

        I'm a genius.
        I just figured out the Shivans and the ending of Freespace 2.
        But I can't tell you what it is, because I might actually be able to form some sort of ending for my damn campaign now. Even though my campaign will have to take a 180' turn into who knows where it'll lead. But my campaign will probably never be finished. So the secret dies with me. Oh well.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 01, 2008, 11:59:14 pm
Then just prove to us your so-called being a genius and tell us your idea. But I'm sure they can sometimes make jumps without using node if absolutely necessary (at least the big ships can). Why else would Volition even bother to put "Skeptics have argued that the Shivans made intersystem jumps without using node in the great War" comment near the end? Also, they seem to have mastered subspace in everyway, so it isn't far fetched to say the Shivans can do this.

     Jump nodes? I don't care about that. That's trivial information in my opinion.   
     That's like arguing about whether the Shivan's pick up truck is a strictly on-road vehicle or if it has off-road capabilities.

     I'm talking about, what the Shivans did in Freespace 2, why they did it, and how they came to that point in the first place. Shivan history man. Though, the latter point is a little vague in areas. Think I'm going to have to toss my old campaign out the window, though I don't have a clue how I'd integrate this into a new campaign. That's always the dilemma. Will have to think about it.

      EDIT - Well, jump nodes are important. But my answer to you is, no they cannot. But the Capella jump didn't count because it was a different thing entirely.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 02, 2008, 12:18:13 am
Go email Volition and ask them why the Shivans destroyed Capella.

Also, I edited my previous post at the same time you posted and didn't finish editing until after you posted. You can read it again now?

        Hmmn, yeah the supernova ideas are a good one . . . BUT. I see a bigger parallel.

Bosch in the opening monologue, says he misses home.
Bosch joins the Shivans.
Petrarch in the closing monologue says, maybe the shivans went home.

         See a connection?


Also we don't know that the Shivans destroyed the star in the Nebula.
All we know is that the Ancients went there AFTER the Supernova and BEFORE they encountered the Shivans.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 02, 2008, 12:28:38 am
Heh, Max. :)

Ah crap, Akala...

Spoiler:
IS BOSCH A SHIVAN?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 02, 2008, 12:32:24 am
Also, before the 2nd and 3rd Knossos' were activated by Bosch, does that mean that the Shivans in the nebula were cut off from the Shivans in the systems beyond Knossos 2. I guess not since the first Sathanas appeared well before Bosch activated the 2nd Knossos. Which means that the Shivans can still use the node without any knossos. I find it unlikely that the Shivans were using other points of entry into the nebula besides Knossos 2.

       The GTC Trinity activated the 1st Knossos.
       The Trinity was found floating derelict in the Nebula, no where near the second Knossos.

       Only 1 Knossos was turned off. The other two were still active. The theory I subscribe to is that the Ancients turned off the Knossos to stop the invasion. But it didn't work, in the same way it didn't work for the GTVA. The Lucifer and it's fleet came through and wiped them out. But before the Lucifer returned home, the node destablized at the Knossos and they couldn't go home. They just floated around, for centuries and millenia until they came to fight against the GTVA. So basically, only 1 Knossos was ever deactivated. There's no point in turning off more than one. There's probably no time to turn off more than one.

        Knossos 2 and 3 and whatever lies beyond have been running for thousands of years.

Ah crap, Akala...

Spoiler:
IS BOSCH A SHIVAN?

        Nope, but he sure created a **** storm in their hive.

I don't believe that they blew up the star to open a gateway to their universe since for one, if that was the case, they would have done it a long time ago, and two, they jumped out before the star exploded. So that means they would have left before the destruction of the star could open a gateway to their universe. Also, I'm sure they have blown up many other star systems in the past. Just look at the Nebula beyond Gamma Draconis and the wing leader (Commander Samsa is his name maybe) saying that it was possibly the remnants of a supernova during the breifing when the Alliance first entered the nebula. Then we find out the Shivans caused a supernova at the end in Capella. So it makes perfect sense that the nebula beyond Gamma Draconis had the same fate as Capalla from the Shivans. See, it is all connected.

         I don't think the Shivans are from another universe. You're also assuming things about the process of the jump that aren't founded in fact. What makes the explosion the trigger? Maybe the explosion is the consequence. I mean, what are stars really? Gravity-speaking? I don't know that Einstein thing, but isn't there something about Stars having some underlying gravity stretching throughout the system? Something to do with that time and relativity and all that crazy science I never learned. And aren't nodes found in places of low gravitational influences? So if you destablize the star, doesn't that make the whole area around it, lacking in gravity for that small amount of time, allowing for a jump to who knows where, and then the star takes it's (un)natural conclusion of exploding???

          So, basically, the Shivans destabalize a star, making the entire area around in, suitable for a jump. Those that can jump, then the star explodes. And why didn't the Shivans do this earlier? Well:

A - They didn't have access to Capella
B - Bosch wasn't talking to them.

           Maybe Capella is suitable for the jump, either as a star, or geographically speaking. There's no real information on how subspace works beyond the fact it connects to systems. There's no real workings as to its range, why systems interconnect and so forth. And yeah, the Shivans seem to be good with subspace. But subspace is a road, and when you've driven on that road all your life how can you be anything but good?

 
           And ONE MORE EDIT - I don't think the Shivans of FS2 are the same as the Shivans of FS1. FS1, as a story is a cliche. Unstoppable, senseless enemy with one super ship. It's been done before, it'll be done again. The whole great preservers thing was the one thing was actually unique about it, and in doing so, the great preservers gave both the Vasudans and the Terrans their origins. As in, how they came to be where they are. But I think that the story of the Shivans, while cool, was also just a gimmick at the time. Voliton I doubt, really explored WHO the Shivans are. WHERE they're from and WHAT they're doing. So then came FS2. And we get to see Shivans with other motivations, Shivans that are actually doing more than just kill humans. So I disregard some things from FS1 all together. Like Alpha 1's comment that "shivans can rebuild nodes". Well, no, they can't. Or else, why would the Knossos trigger their arrival? The Trinity opened a door for the Shivans that Alpha 1 claims they can open themselves, therefore, Alpha 1 is wrong because FS2 is newer than FS1 and information in it trumps FS1.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 02, 2008, 12:51:40 am
Perhaps the Capella star was the only sun capable of generating a massive subspace vortex from its explosion that could fit most of the Shivan armada in.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 02, 2008, 02:14:03 am
The Lucifer returned home. You are missing key points mentioned in FS2. The node remains stable for centuries after being restablized. Also, The Lucifer fleet came from around Ikeya and Ross 128, not Capella. A point into Shivan space lies in the Ikeya system. Go back and play FS1 and listen to all breifings.

          Did the Lucifer return home? Or did the Lucifer never leave the neighbourhood?
          Yes, the Lucifer came from beyond Ross 128. But after it was defeated, no shivans were seen for 30 years. Why didnt the Shivans keep coming? Thirty Years, no contact. Furthermore, why did the Shivan fleet fall to pieces once the Lucifer was destroyed? If the Shivans are in fact a hive and need some sort of central queen, then the destruction of the Lucifer shouldn't matter because with the Shivan Comm Nodes in FS2, they should still have some sort of contact with the rest of the Shivans. But the thing is, the FS1 Shivans didn't have contact with the rest of the Shivans. All they had to guide them was the Lucifer, and when that went down, they went down with it. Collapsed into a rabble of ships which were rather easily taken care of. If the ships are out of the hive, why not retreat to shivan space and get back in the hive?
         Furthermore, why did the FS2 Shivan fleet have better technology than the FS1 Shivans? The shivans have been in space for thousands of years, yet they progress the same rate as the GTVA? No. They'd be like Angels if that were the case. The Lucifer fleet, is simply thousands of years out of date compare to the FS2 Shivans.

Quote
Also note the bright glowing starts in the background in the final monologue in FS1 of the player speaking. Those might be a few of the suns the Shivans destroyed. Or it could be a star system with about 7 stars. I heard those are possible and systems with only one star are less common than binary systems.

        I doubt the storyline for FS2 was created before FS1 was even released. If it was, why are there so many continuity errors like the node map and so on?

Quote
Bosch wasn't trying to go home. He was trying to form an Alliance with the Shivans to stop the fighting out of fear that the Shivans would wipe humanity out unless an understanding could be formed. When did Bosch say the words "I want to go home"? He wasn't even heading home at all. The promised land means going into Shivan space or where ever they are from, like where he was heading. He was moving further away form Earth, not toward it.

       Bosch saying "I want to go home" is bad writing.
       Bosch saying "I remember stories of a glorious civilisation, of cities with spires that reached the sun, of a blue planet with vast seas, of people with myths of humanity everlasting, of children who saw in the embers of dying stars the destiny of their race" is good writing because he's saying he misses Earth. He longs for it. Clearly he wants to go there. If he didn't why would he care to remember it?

Quote
Also, Shivans don't need Capella to make a supernova. Any star of the same class will do. Why would only one star be suitable when there are 200 billion stars in this galaxy and 200 billion galaxies in the universe? It makes sense that they blew up the Capella star to seal GTVA space off from their space because the Alliance invaded and was pushing deeper. Does that make sense?

        Yeah I've heard the Shivans scared of humanity theory before. I don't buy it.
        Fear and paranoia are two different things.
        The Shivans lost a LOT of forces destroying Capella. From what we see, there are 12 ships, only 8 of them make it out. So assuming, that's a statistical norm. Out of 80 Juggernauts, the Shivans lost 25. They lost 25 Juggernauts to seal themselves off from the GTVA? That makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER (not yelling, just emphasising).
        25 Juggernauts would WIPE the floor with the GTVA ten times over. Shivans have never retreated, but they've never willingly killed themselves in any engagement. What precedence is there in the game, for Shivan sacrifice? Have Shivans ever rammed? Have Shivans even shielded one-another? No, they just fight, and they die, to the last man(shivan).

        What would motivate them to sacrifice SOOO much? And what effect did Bosch have? Bosch having no effect invalidates his whole existence. The Shivans acted differently in FS2, the only difference that the player knows of is Bosch. Clearly Bosch has stimulated this change in Shivan behavior.


Quote
The Alliance collapsed the Epsilon Pegasi/Capella node for nothing thinking that the Shivans were going to spread through allied space like they did before in the Great War. But the shockwave of the supernova destroyed the nodes connecting Capella to the other systems.

         The Alliance did collapse the nodes for nothing. Because the Shivans weren't trying to exterminate them.
         But there's no evidence that any nodes were destroyed.

Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 02, 2008, 02:33:34 am
       Bosch saying "I want to go home" is bad writing.
       Bosch saying "I remember stories of a glorious civilisation, of cities with spires that reached the sun, of a blue planet with vast seas, of people with myths of humanity everlasting, of children who saw in the embers of dying stars the destiny of their race" is good writing because he's saying he misses Earth. He longs for it. Clearly he wants to go there. If he didn't why would he care to remember it?

Since when the FS2 intro voice is supposed to be Bosch's one? That's Alpha 1, not Bosch...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 02, 2008, 02:48:11 am
       Bosch saying "I want to go home" is bad writing.
       Bosch saying "I remember stories of a glorious civilisation, of cities with spires that reached the sun, of a blue planet with vast seas, of people with myths of humanity everlasting, of children who saw in the embers of dying stars the destiny of their race" is good writing because he's saying he misses Earth. He longs for it. Clearly he wants to go there. If he didn't why would he care to remember it?

Since when the FS2 intro voice is supposed to be Bosch's one? That's Alpha 1, not Bosch...

      Hmmn, well Bosch's voice seems a bit creakier.
      But, I don't know how you figure it's Alpha 1. The end of the monologue talks about forging a new alliance. That's Aken Bosch's whole mission throughout FS2. If it's not Aken Bosch's voice actor, it's someone else supposed to be him I would venture. And why would Alpha 1 be given a voice at the start and then never again throughout the whole game? That makes no sense.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 02, 2008, 03:05:22 am
If you read the back of the FS2 box, it will say the Lucifer force was a scouting force. They thought it was sufficient to destroy the Alliance, but underestimated them. Then it says after 30 years of no contact with the Lucifer fleet, the main Shivan fleet got worried, or something. Smaller Shivans ships and lesser Shivans may have been controlled by the Lucifer and the Lucifer may be the only one who has the authority, know how, or strong enough equipment to communicate with the main Shivan fleet and comm nodes may be a few systems beyond Ross128 (out of comm range of smaller Shivan craft).

       The back of the box is a marketing gimmick. I'd be surprised if anyone in the development team even had a hand in writing that.
 
Quote
That was a narrator, not Bosch. I never once thought it was Bosch. Where did you get that idea from? I never once heard that ever mentioned even on this forum.

        As I said to Mobius. The guy says "now we forge a new alliance, to guard the tomb of space, and to find within its cold expanse the destiny of our race". Bosch's motivation is to forge a new alliance with the shivans, he believes their destiny lives with the shivans not the vasudans. Everything about that opening narration conforms to Bosch's motives.


Quote
I didnt say they were cowering. I heard that story of them cowering in the Shivan Manifesto too and I don't buy it either and I know they wouldn't cower. I said maybe Bosch was cowering and he requested that the Shivans destroy the star to collapse the nodes so the Alliance couldn't folllow or maybe the Shivans did it to give them an advantage of invasion in the future without the Alliance being able to follow them back to Shivan space since Shivans can travel through unstable nodes but the GTVA can't.

     Bosch wants the Shivans to ally with humanity. Why would he order them to seal off Capella, if anything, Bosch wants the Shivans to embrace humanity. Not destroy it. Not cut itself off from it. The Shivans are following their own motives, because of what Bosch has said. One little punk, that they barely know, is not going to tell them what to do. And it's certainly not going to get them to lose 25 super capital ships for no real reason. BUT, one little punk, can give them ideas of their own.


Quote
The Shivans would have gone home long before if that was what they were trying to do, but they are not stranded from home and that clearly isn't their motive. Their motive is to protect subspace, which may be their true home, and to wipe out any species who has the ability to use subspace. Their tech is too advanced to ever be stranded. If the Ancients can build a knossos, then the Shivans can do so much more and incorperate that tech into their ships. The command breifing in FS2 even says that Shivans can use nodes too unstable for Terran and Vasudan vessels.

      Yet petrach calls them exiles in his monologue at the end.
      Protect subspace? Hmmn . . . . well. Just considering my campaign idea I think it's not feasible. So I'll write up my theory and post it in the General discussion forum in a few days or whenever I get a done. You can rip it apart there. But, better than doing it piecemeal here.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 02, 2008, 03:41:57 am
He is talking about the GTVA being a new alliance from the old GTA and PVN. You are being silly. It shows a bunch of GTVA vessels as it says that. I'm like thinking, "what the hell"? You came up with some pretty weird interpretations. If you have the Shivans as your allies, what would your alliance be guarding the tomb of space from? Don't you see? They mean guard the tomb of space from the Shivans. You see a ruined Orion and a dead planet caused by the Shivans and then it says that.

       That's the obvious explanation, but how would you explain the "of children who saw in the embers of dying stars, the destiny of their race". The only dying stars in FS2 are directly or indirectly attributed to the Shivans.

       Well, I'm probably wrong about that anyway. But, it's really a minor point and not particularly relevant to everything else.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 02, 2008, 05:33:10 am
      Hmmn, well Bosch's voice seems a bit creakier.
      But, I don't know how you figure it's Alpha 1. The end of the monologue talks about forging a new alliance. That's Aken Bosch's whole mission throughout FS2. If it's not Aken Bosch's voice actor, it's someone else supposed to be him I would venture. And why would Alpha 1 be given a voice at the start and then never again throughout the whole game? That makes no sense.

"The older call us the Lost Generation"

The whole intro is pretty personal. We guess it's Alpha 1 the one who's talking. In Endgame(FS1) the one who talk is also supposed to be the player. :)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on October 02, 2008, 05:42:04 am
Args...

Eons ago I posted a thread in which I observed that the narration of the introduction was basically foreshadowing everything that would happen in the game, and that the only one who would reasonably know all of that would have to be Bosch. There was discussion about the voice not matching, and yeah, it's a different voice actor.

Carry on.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on October 02, 2008, 11:49:55 am
The FS series definitely drew inspiration from Wing Commander (or so I've heard, since I haven't played any of that series myself), as well as the old Star Wars sims (which I sadly haven't played either).  The general consensus I can gather from the reviews of the day is that FS (and in particular, FS2) didn't innovate so much as gather the best elements of the genre into one game and polish them very well.

TIE Fighter was the best space combat simulator ever until Freespace and FS2 came out.

I still think it's great in fact.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 02, 2008, 12:06:28 pm
The whole intro is pretty personal. We guess it's Alpha 1 the one who's talking. In Endgame(FS1) the one who talk is also supposed to be the player. :)[/i][/color]

         Yeah but how does that fit in with anything? Alpha 1 is never given a voice anywhere else. Why have him voice over the intro and never say a peep later on. It doesn't make sense to have him. At the start of the game, Alpha 1 is just a recruit. You think a recruit is going to be talking like that? I doubt it.

          If a person's trying to tell one, continuous story, you don't have random people come in and do their thing and never get heard from again. That's a waste. If Alpha 1 voiced over the end (where he lives) then yeah, that would work. But he doesn't, it's Petrach instead.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 02, 2008, 02:57:27 pm
Args...

Eons ago I posted a thread in which I observed that the narration of the introduction was basically foreshadowing everything that would happen in the game, and that the only one who would reasonably know all of that would have to be Bosch. There was discussion about the voice not matching, and yeah, it's a different voice actor.

Carry on.

You need more than that to backup such an assumption, IMO. I don't see why it's Bosch the one talking in FS2 Intro. I don't get Bosch's prophecies about the game's plot in the intro, either.

So I guess Bosch is the one describing the Colossus in Colossus.mve, too? :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on October 02, 2008, 03:08:01 pm
Besides, Bosch is too old to be part of the Lost Generation, isn't he?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 02, 2008, 03:10:45 pm
Another good point.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 02, 2008, 03:21:13 pm
A mustache doesn't necessarily provide reliable info regarding someone's age... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on October 02, 2008, 05:11:39 pm
Ok, I'm too lazy to argue this now, so I'm finding the thread where I said it, and you all can read what I said there and all the dumb comments that fail to prove anything other than that the voice actor is someone else.



http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,49566.0.html

Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Goober5000 on October 02, 2008, 10:19:15 pm
You guys (all of you), stop trying to pass off wild speculation as fact.

And Akalabeth Angel, you should save that idea.  Maybe we should make a write-only forum where all the disused campaign ideas can go. :)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 02, 2008, 11:42:09 pm
Why don't the community members just email Volition if they have questions about Shivans and stuff? Should I try to email them?

     I think dozens of people already have, assuming that anyone still remains, and assuming that anyone who remains still remembers.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 03, 2008, 12:35:34 am
Why don't the community members just email Volition if they have questions about Shivans and stuff? Should I try to email them?

I believe people did exactly that years ago. All they got out of :v: was "Think of the Shivans as a symptom of a much bigger problem." (Paraphrased)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on October 03, 2008, 04:11:35 am
Ok, the problem with emailing them is this:

"Hey look, another email from some fan who expects us to tell them something we have refused to tell everyone else who has asked us!  :rolleyes: "

--Random guy from :v:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mongoose on October 03, 2008, 04:13:12 am
I highly, highly doubt that anyone at :v: would be able to tell you anything along those lines...mainly because that information never existed to begin with.  There was never any sort of development process that had started for a third game; beyond the vaguest idea of what sorts of mechanics they might have wanted to include, no one would have come up with any concrete details for a continued storyline in the first place.  This mythical "FS3 plot locker" that some people seem to think exists at :v:'s office simply doesn't.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on October 03, 2008, 05:07:26 am
it couldn't hurt if Derik made a FS3

Ok,

a) it's Derek, not Derik...

b) you don't pronounce it "ffffffffssssssssssssssssthree", you pronounce it "effff esss threee", so you say "an FS3", not "a FS3", and anyway you don't really even need an article, just say "FS3"

c) The problem with Derek Smart making FS3 isn't that it wouldn't have the originally planned story, it's that, as Derek Smart himself said, the gameplay would be nothing like FreeSpace; it was pretty much going to be a free-roaming game with afaik no missions, probably minimal plot, etc., basically a pile of crap.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 03, 2008, 07:29:35 am
You guys (all of you), stop trying to pass off wild speculation as fact.

And Akalabeth Angel, you should save that idea.  Maybe we should make a write-only forum where all the disused campaign ideas can go. :)

Call it the Junkyard Nebula Debris Field if you want to. ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 03, 2008, 11:20:49 am
You guys (all of you), stop trying to pass off wild speculation as fact.

And Akalabeth Angel, you should save that idea.  Maybe we should make a write-only forum where all the disused campaign ideas can go. :)

Call it the Junkyard Nebula Debris Field if you want to. ;)

What about specific release subforums in "Missions and Campaigns" and "FreeSpace Modding"?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on October 03, 2008, 04:33:49 pm
it couldn't hurt if Derik made a FS3


b) you don't pronounce it "ffffffffssssssssssssssssthree", you pronounce it "effff esss threee", so you say "an FS3", not "a FS3", and anyway you don't really even need an article, just say "FS3"

No, I pronounce FS3 like Freespace 3. So when I see the letters FS3, I always imagine I'm reading it as Freespace 3. Now does that make sense that I say a FS3 or you still don't get what I mean? A FS3 = A Freespace 3. Man, you are so picky like many on the forum. Maybe if you knew why I said that, you would have understood in the first place. Now you should be able to understand.

Whatever. Does this mean you agree with everything else (particularly part C)?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Vasudan Commander on October 03, 2008, 05:38:36 pm

does Derik Smart still plan to make a FS3?

Shall i prepare the ritualistic forum burial for you now or later?

Thou hast uttered a word that shalt not  be spoken here.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on October 03, 2008, 05:41:44 pm
Actually, he said three unspeakable words. Good thing he misspelled Derek.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on October 03, 2008, 06:31:21 pm
Can't people take a joke?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 03, 2008, 07:05:32 pm
Well, to be fair, High Max, whenever anybody mentions "Derek Smart" and "FS3" in the same sentence it's usually to make fun of the idea. Naturally they thought to make some jokes on the subject as well.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: DarthWang on October 03, 2008, 07:17:54 pm
If Volition keeps getting emailed about this, how do you know an employee won't just make something up on the spot to explain it?

I remember hearing that during the running of the original Star Trek TV series, people kept calling the producers and asking what Mr. Spock's first name was, (the only clue was that in one episode he said it was unpronounceable to humans). So an employee finally got tired of it and told them it was some huge long ridiculous word he just made from typing random keys on his typewriter, and for a long time people actually believed it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 03, 2008, 08:17:31 pm
Well, to be fair, High Max, whenever anybody mentions "Derek Smart" and "FS3" in the same sentence it's usually to make fun of the idea. Naturally they thought to make some jokes on the subject as well.

      To be fair, Dark Hunter, whenever someone mentions Derek Smart or FS3 and isn't joking then 10 other people jump on him either telling him to effectively shutup, or start making jokes of their own. It's like to the forums have come to a point where people can't have meaningful discussions about these things without at least one or five people putting in their two bits why FS3 or Derek Smart is a bad idea.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on October 03, 2008, 08:58:20 pm
Well, to be fair, High Max, whenever anybody mentions "Derek Smart" and "FS3" in the same sentence it's usually to make fun of the idea. Naturally they thought to make some jokes on the subject as well.

      To be fair, Dark Hunter, whenever someone mentions Derek Smart or FS3 and isn't joking then 10 other people jump on him either telling him to effectively shutup, or start making jokes of their own. It's like to the forums have come to a point where people can't have meaningful discussions about these things without at least one or five people putting in their two bits why FS3 or Derek Smart is a bad idea.

Possibly because it has been discussed to death already...
And nothing that's said will change anything?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on October 03, 2008, 09:14:26 pm
Hooray, you've inspired me to make a topic in General FreeSpace Discussion (topic title starts with "Aardwolf Waxes Poetic")
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 03, 2008, 10:02:27 pm
Possibly because it has been discussed to death already...
And nothing that's said will change anything?

     "What's your favourite fighter?" (and any variation thereof)
     "What's your favourite campaign?"
      "Too much Freespace"
     
      Have both been discussed to death as well. You don't see people jumping all over the initial poster whenever it comes up. Not to mention the fact that just because you were around when it was discussed the last time, doesn't mean that X or Y person was around or took any notice. New people are coming back all the time. Let them talk about what they will, I would rather see a post about Derek Smart or Freespace 3 than the multitude of posts where some idiot just says " :nod:" or uses some other smilie, or their entire post is nothing but a quote of someone else's post, or something like "QFT". At least posts or replies about FS3 or DS have the potential to be interesting.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on October 03, 2008, 10:24:26 pm
I seem to be getting flamed for the thread I posted in General FreeSpace Discussion...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: eliex on October 04, 2008, 04:19:56 am
I agree.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on October 04, 2008, 04:38:32 am
The flamers are the ones who should be getting in trouble and ridiculed, not the topic makers.
I disagree.

If I posted a thread that is obviously provocative and I got flamed, then that's fair.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on October 04, 2008, 10:41:14 pm
Calm down.

Don't be patronizing. It's absurd, especially on the Internet, and especially when your own statements are fairly simplistic.

Quote
t's just in your head. I don't like that.

Everything is just in everybody's head.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 04, 2008, 10:48:33 pm
Quote
t's just in your head. I don't like that.

Everything is just in everybody's head.

   Get out of my HEAD!  :nervous: AAAAHHH AHHHHHHH! You're not real!!!!  :(


    So anyway, what the heck is the H for in SH Gargant anyway? Shivan Holymoly Gargant? or . . . Shivan Hwaaaaahhhh**** Gargant?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Stormkeeper on October 04, 2008, 10:53:26 pm
Hive, iirc.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: eliex on October 05, 2008, 01:38:38 am
Are the Shivans like super-evolved insectoids or something? Like the Tyranids in W40k except when they die, they are actually dead.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Stormkeeper on October 05, 2008, 02:47:15 am
No idea. So I'm not sure why they used 'Hive' for the Gargant, if that is what the H stands for.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 03:03:25 am
Have you ever heard of the Hive Mind theory?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 05, 2008, 03:15:13 am
Have you ever heard of the Hive Mind theory?

       I suspect the Sathanas was a hive anyway. There's a reason it jumped and the horde of other shivan forces in system did not when Capella went boom boom.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 03:23:54 am
Have you ever heard of the Hive Mind theory?

I suspect the Sathanas was a hive anyway. There's a reason it jumped and the horde of other shivan forces in system did not when Capella went boom boom.

There were 80 Juggernauts... :rolleyes:

The Hive refers to something centralized. I don't think the Sathanes were hives while the Gargant is likely to be a Hive thanks to its dimensions, invincibility and weaponry.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 05, 2008, 03:48:58 am
Have you ever heard of the Hive Mind theory?

I suspect the Sathanas was a hive anyway. There's a reason it jumped and the horde of other shivan forces in system did not when Capella went boom boom.

There were 80 Juggernauts... :rolleyes:

The Hive refers to something centralized. I don't think the Sathanes were hives while the Gargant is likely to be a Hive thanks to its dimensions, invincibility and weaponry.


          Why not? The Lucifer was effectively a hive from what we know from the techroom. The Sathanas seemed less a warship and more a huge transport with big guns on the front. The Shivan sacrificed most of their warships in Capella just blasting the GTVA.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 05:22:23 am
Have you ever heard of the Hive Mind theory?

I suspect the Sathanas was a hive anyway. There's a reason it jumped and the horde of other shivan forces in system did not when Capella went boom boom.

There were 80 Juggernauts... :rolleyes:

The Hive refers to something centralized. I don't think the Sathanes were hives while the Gargant is likely to be a Hive thanks to its dimensions, invincibility and weaponry.


Why not? The Lucifer was effectively a hive from what we know from the techroom. The Sathanas seemed less a warship and more a huge transport with big guns on the front. The Shivan sacrificed most of their warships in Capella just blasting the GTVA.

Every Shivan ship bigger than another plays the role of the Hive. A Demon is a Hive for a cruiser and corvette group, the Lucifer is a Hive for anything below its size, etc. etc.

The Gargant appears to be the definitive Hive.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Stormkeeper on October 05, 2008, 06:37:48 am
Have you ever heard of the Hive Mind theory?
Hmm. I see. So that's why the Gargant was given the "SH" tag.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 06:48:08 am
It's the definitive Shivan warship.

Maybe there will be bigger ones in the future, who knows(Super Hive, Mega Hive and so on...) ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on October 05, 2008, 06:55:21 am
I'm expecting SS Humongous (Shivan Sun) to make an appearance and go supernova.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on October 05, 2008, 06:56:41 am
I'm expecting SS Humongous (Shivan Sun) to make an appearance and go supernova.
You're forgetting the SG Rahu, Shivan Gas Miner Galaxy ship.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on October 05, 2008, 06:59:47 am
I'm expecting SS Humongous (Shivan Sun) to make an appearance and go supernova.
You're forgetting the SG Rahu, Shivan Gas Miner Galaxy ship.
Indeed I am, old chap. Pardon. Which, of course, is a mere escor ship for the SU Peewee, the ultimazor Shivan Universe class ship.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on October 05, 2008, 07:00:57 am
Indeed I am, old chap. Pardon. Which, of course, is a mere escor ship for the SU Peewee, the ultimazor Shivan Universe class ship.
How do you know about that ship? I thought only the INF SCP members knew about it... :wtf:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Jeff Vader on October 05, 2008, 07:02:36 am
Indeed I am, old chap. Pardon. Which, of course, is a mere escor ship for the SU Peewee, the ultimazor Shivan Universe class ship.
How do you know about that ship? I thought only the INF SCP members knew about it... :wtf:
There is a spy among you who has provided me with much information, which I shall use in my... oops, I think I said too much.  :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 05, 2008, 02:41:31 pm
Every Shivan ship bigger than another plays the role of the Hive. A Demon is a Hive for a cruiser and corvette group, the Lucifer is a Hive for anything below its size, etc. etc.


          If that were true why did the loss of the Lucifer doom the Shivan fleet? Surely there were other Demons in the area.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 02:51:24 pm
Every Shivan ship bigger than another plays the role of the Hive. A Demon is a Hive for a cruiser and corvette group, the Lucifer is a Hive for anything below its size, etc. etc.


If that were true why did the loss of the Lucifer doom the Shivan fleet? Surely there were other Demons in the area.

We don't know if there were other Demons. Shivan ships might have also been spread in a wide area thus making the coordination nearly impossible.

The Lucifer ventured deeper and was supposed to come back, but it didn't...leaving its forces spread here and there...

EDIT: They were sitting ducks that that point...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on October 05, 2008, 02:55:44 pm
We don't know if there were other Demons. Shivan ships might have also been spread in a wide area thus making the coordination nearly impossible.
There almost certainly were other Demons. Many other named ones appeared in FS1 multiplayer missions, and I seriously doubt there were only 2 Demons (the Eva and Tantalus) in the entire Lucifer fleet.

Either way, it's possible there was ''internal drama'' (for lack of a better term) in which some Demons may not have wanted to cooperate with each other (disintegration of the hive mind authority) or, as stated, might not have been able to coordinate over such long distances.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 02:58:28 pm
Remember that there was a Demon in the Battle of Deneb as well...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on October 05, 2008, 03:29:23 pm
Remember that there was a Demon in the Battle of Deneb as well...
Thus reinforcing the argument that there were other Demons and undermining the argument that there weren't any other Demons...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on October 05, 2008, 03:38:11 pm

Either way, it's possible there was ''internal drama'' (for lack of a better term) in which some Demons may not have wanted to cooperate with each other (disintegration of the hive mind authority) or, as stated, might not have been able to coordinate over such long distances.

:lol:
That'd be funny to watch...possibly...

"MY SC CAIN!"
"NO MINE!"
*starts mental tug-of-war*
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 03:52:23 pm
Remember that there was a Demon in the Battle of Deneb as well...
Thus reinforcing the argument that there were other Demons and undermining the argument that there weren't any other Demons...

Well, are you sure that only two of them(Eva and Tantalus) were destroyed before the destruction of the Lucifer?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on October 05, 2008, 03:53:06 pm
My point is that there were almost definitely more Demons in the Lucifer fleet, whether before or after the Lucy's destruction.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 03:56:24 pm
But it's important to determine wheter or not these Demons(or most of them) got annihilated before the Lucifer.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 05, 2008, 04:05:54 pm
But it's important to determine wheter or not these Demons(or most of them) got annihilated before the Lucifer.

         Not as important as you might think. The lack of a Demon after the destruction of the Lucifer doesn't  confirm the theory that they're some central hive, it only opens up the possibility that it might be. Whereas the presence of a Demon after the Lucifer goes down directly contradicts the idea. Either way, there's no canon evidence of a Demon aside from the Eva and Tantalus, at least not according to the Wiki.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 04:12:30 pm
So you're giving for sure that the Demon seen in the Battle of Deneb was the Tantalus?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on October 05, 2008, 04:19:55 pm
Its not shown when during the battle of Deneb where that the FS2 intro takes place...it could have been the Eva even, I remember this begin discussed.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 04:46:07 pm
I remember that it was discussed, yeah...

And as far as I know Evangelist preceeds the Battle of Deneb. Check the Wiki.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on October 05, 2008, 04:54:08 pm
Yeah, it does.
Which leaves two possibilities: SD Tantalus arrives during the battle (as in, after the destruction of the Galatea), or some other Demon arrives after the destruction of the Galatea.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 04:59:11 pm
That Orion isn't the Galatea...in fanon it's the GTD Legion but meh...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on October 05, 2008, 05:01:14 pm
Yeah. The article says that the FS2 intro happens after doomsday.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 05, 2008, 05:03:00 pm
The Wiki covers both issues(Demon and Galatea).
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 05, 2008, 06:01:23 pm
So you're giving for sure that the Demon seen in the Battle of Deneb was the Tantalus?

        All that cinematic says is that there was a Demon present at Deneb. It doesn't say it survived Deneb. Nor does it say it survived the destruction of the Lucifer. The only question that really matter is, was there a Demon still around after the Lucifer went down.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 07, 2008, 02:48:10 am
Didn't the Eva die before the Battle of Deneb? :confused:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on October 07, 2008, 05:18:15 am
I saw some cains and liliths debris on ST mission 4 (original) but no demon AFAIK.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on October 07, 2008, 01:43:17 pm
About the Eva being destroyed before the Battle of Deneb... I'm not too sure anymore.

Quote from: Evangelist Briefing
The Eva has entered the Deneb system. She is fully armed and poised to attack the Deneb-Vasuda Prime Jump Node.

She is protected by Arjuna and Krishna wings.

Alpha wing will lead an attack squadron to destroy the Eva. Alpha wing will fly bombers. Gamma and Beta will cover them.

We suggest you damage the weapons system on the Eva before you launch your Tsunami bombs. This will prevent the Eva from shooting them down.

You may need to call in a support ship to rearm yourself. It is estimated that at least twenty Tsunami bombs will be needed to take the Eva down.

Destroying the Eva is imperative. With the Lucifer in the system as well, we cannot tolerate the presence of another Shivan capital ship.

Good luck.

The Eva could have participated in the Battle of Deneb shown during the FS2 intro, jumped away for repairs after the battle before attempting to attack Vasuda Prime, where it was blown up by Alpha 1 & Co.

I haven't done much research into this, so I wouldn't be surprised if I got it wrong.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Mobius on October 07, 2008, 04:18:36 pm
My source is the list of inconcistencies, which surely has a background of reliable research on the matter...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 08, 2008, 09:35:25 am
The intro cutscene should be taken as semicanon at best. Remember there was also a crashed Hades on that planet.

It's likely the Demon was the Eva, but it could easily be another destroyer not mentioned in FS1.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on October 08, 2008, 04:07:44 pm
It's likely the Demon was the Eva, but it could easily be another destroyer not mentioned in FS1.
Unlikely, it is specifically stated no other Shivan destroyers were present in Deneb, unless it arrived during the battle.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on October 09, 2008, 05:25:19 am
I always woundered what was that crashed hades doing here.... :wtf:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 10, 2008, 10:07:21 am
I only noticed that Hades after watching the intro four times over.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on October 10, 2008, 06:35:50 pm
I only noticed that Hades after watching the intro four times over.

What?

It's hard not to notice it... easier not to know what it is, but hard not to notice it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on October 10, 2008, 08:01:12 pm
Its a friggin massive tower.
I knew it was a wreckage, but I couldn't tell it was the Hades until someone mentioned it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Stormkeeper on October 10, 2008, 08:33:54 pm
What?

It's hard not to notice it... easier not to know what it is, but hard not to notice it.
I've never noticed the Hades actually ... For some reason my senses treat it as 'background noise'.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 10, 2008, 10:53:10 pm
How did it get there in the first place?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on October 11, 2008, 02:14:27 am
I think it's explained in STR.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on October 11, 2008, 03:49:18 am
If you look at it well, you'll see the X patterened engine section of the hades sticking out.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on October 11, 2008, 03:52:32 am
Aren't you looking at something else during that scene? Well, I didn't notice the Hades either, until I someone posted of it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Marcov on October 08, 2009, 11:21:30 am
Heck, I'd rather call it a Vaderpwner than a "Hive". It SO would pwn 3 Executor superstardestroyers...

But I still can't understand; won't it take you ten minutes just to scale that ship with a tinny-winny fighter??
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: carbine7 on October 08, 2009, 01:27:47 pm
That's why you have the Icanus, so you don't have to fly your fighter against it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Marcov on October 12, 2009, 10:20:45 am
Wasn't the Icanus mashed? It's 2-3 times smaller.

Also, I think It'd be more fun to send 300 bombers wings against it...rather than a capital ship  :D
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Commander Zane on October 12, 2009, 10:23:05 am
From what I've seen that would still take hours if not days or even weeks to stop. :P What was that screenshot with the modified Icanus's cannon, firing 14 USilvs at once and it still only did 1% hull damage?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: starlord on October 12, 2009, 10:36:32 am
Actually, I always thought the only possible use of the gargant in FS would have been to merge descent like gameplay into a FS campaign... :lol:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 12, 2009, 10:37:20 am
From what I've seen that would still take hours if not days or even weeks to stop. :P What was that screenshot with the modified Icanus's cannon, firing 14 USilvs at once and it still only did 1% hull damage?

Two weeks to destroy. One week to explode.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 12, 2009, 11:45:46 am
And an explosion of epic proportions? :shaking:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 12, 2009, 11:47:54 am
And an explosion of epic proportions? :shaking:

I ~K the hive once (well, I did it 100 times since once only takes 1%), it wouldn't stop exploding. It just kept exploding and exploding and exploding and never broke apart. I eventually just quit the mission.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Scooby_Doo on October 12, 2009, 02:26:14 pm
"Alright crew, the ships starting to explode, you've got one week to get off the ship"
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: carbine7 on October 12, 2009, 04:47:19 pm
From what I've seen that would still take hours if not days or even weeks to stop. :P What was that screenshot with the modified Icanus's cannon, firing 14 USilvs at once and it still only did 1% hull damage?

Two weeks to destroy. One week to explode.
I hit the Vorlon Planet Killer with about 12 or so battlecrabs once. I think it took and hour to destroy and several hours to finish blowing up. By that time the debris was about umpteen billion km away  :lol:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: High Max on October 12, 2009, 06:26:00 pm
;-)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: carbine7 on October 13, 2009, 06:10:41 pm
It's kinda funny that the Gargant is probably Inferno's most well know ship, yet no one has a clear picture and is willing to show us. oh well, minor complaint. But I also seem to remember that thread saying there were more than 2.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: colecampbell666 on October 13, 2009, 08:04:13 pm
Here are the Earth ones

(http://inferno.hard-light.net/GargSpam01.jpg)
(http://inferno.hard-light.net/GargSpam02.jpg)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Commander Zane on October 13, 2009, 08:23:42 pm
Inappropriately huge ship is huge. :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: High Max on October 13, 2009, 09:14:20 pm
;-)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: carbine7 on October 13, 2009, 09:25:32 pm
Inappropriately huge doesn't even begin to cover it. That should be illegal! The Icanus if already frickin' huge, and it looks like a lego block compared to a house.

:jaw:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: High Max on October 13, 2009, 11:26:19 pm
;-)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Woomeister on October 14, 2009, 04:33:12 am
or maybe because it might not work in the story they have planned now.
Well the chapter it was for doesn't exist anymore...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Commander Zane on October 14, 2009, 05:34:20 am

By the way, the Icanus is not using its Usilver in that pic. The Punisher cannon is on the front of the Icanus and it uses the Usilver, so I know its not multiple Punisher beams coming from the Icanus since its the side that its coming from. Also, the Icanus only has one Punisher cannon....
The extremely large beam impacts seem to suggest otherwise, last I remember someone said they changed the table of the USilv to have no refire delay.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Woomeister on October 14, 2009, 06:07:13 am
That test was done using a fire-beam sexp with no delay on it and 9999 repeats. The real beam wouldn't fire that fast.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Commander Zane on October 14, 2009, 07:58:16 am
Duh. :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 14, 2009, 12:23:20 pm
That test was done using a fire-beam sexp with no delay on it and 9999 repeats. The real beam wouldn't fire that fast.

So ... at the time of the above screenshots, how many times had it fired? About 2280 (38 seconds multiplied by 60 frames per second) times?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Thaeris on October 14, 2009, 04:32:56 pm
The Icanus needs the Giga Drill Breaker. After that point, the Shivans are of no concern...  :D
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: carbine7 on October 15, 2009, 01:01:51 am
Or a subspace rift weapon...but that might not agree with Earth if you know what I mean  :p
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 15, 2009, 05:47:42 am
The Icanus needs the Giga Drill Breaker. After that point, the Shivans are of no concern...  :D

Or the Shining Finger, whichever one's more awesome. ;)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Nuclear1 on November 28, 2009, 03:50:00 pm
Inappropriately huge ship is huge. :P

Dude, it's Inferno, that's the unofficial slogan. :p

Although I also like:

Inferno:  That might break something though.

Inferno:  A good excuse to kill your CPU.

Inferno:  GIANT SQUID!!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on November 28, 2009, 04:01:01 pm
Inferno:  GIANT SQUID!!

Giant Squid? How is that related to INF?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Nuclear1 on November 28, 2009, 04:06:58 pm
It was from a couple pages back, someone couldn't remember how to spell one of the Shivan ships with a long V-name, so he just called it the GIANT SQUID!! or GIANT SPIDER!! or something like that.

I just thought it sums up Inferno Shivans quite well :p
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on November 28, 2009, 04:17:56 pm
It was from a couple pages back, someone couldn't remember how to spell one of the Shivan ships with a long V-name, so he just called it the GIANT SQUID!! or GIANT SPIDER!! or something like that.

I just thought it sums up Inferno Shivans quite well :p

Nah, not really. Unless you're talking of the INFR1 Shivans :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Nuclear1 on November 28, 2009, 04:24:50 pm
It was from a couple pages back, someone couldn't remember how to spell one of the Shivan ships with a long V-name, so he just called it the GIANT SQUID!! or GIANT SPIDER!! or something like that.

I just thought it sums up Inferno Shivans quite well :p

Nah, not really. Unless you're talking of the INFR1 Shivans :P

Oh, in which case:

Inferno:  Stretchy Shivan Ship Edition! :p

EDIT: Sorry for any of you here to see if this is a legitimate discussion about the Gargant, it's just making jokes about the inappropriately massiveness of Inferno ships :p
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on November 28, 2009, 06:39:39 pm
Vindayachal? Vinashaak?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Nuclear1 on November 28, 2009, 07:36:26 pm
Whichever one looks like a GIANT SQUID!! or GIANT SPIDER!!
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on November 28, 2009, 07:41:45 pm
The six-tentacle squid the Vidyahar.
The Vindhyachal is a bomber (with a beam cannon)...that looks like a spider. Giant for a bomber but it's still well below cruiser size.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on November 28, 2009, 11:02:24 pm
The Vinashaak is the big spider-like planet destroyer in INFR1 which apparently has a sheath shield similar to the Lucifer's.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on November 29, 2009, 01:15:44 am
The shield was for protecting against debris from planet blowing up or something absurd like that, wasn't it?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dark Hunter on November 29, 2009, 02:12:11 am
I heard somewhere that the Vinashaak was actually a reskinned Nightmare juggernaut, rather than being a Shivan design in the beginning.

I'd like to see what the original looked like if that was the case.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on November 29, 2009, 02:59:11 am
I think the original is featured somewhere at the end of Tides of Darkness. It's in the files at least.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Nuclear1 on November 29, 2009, 03:25:05 am
I heard somewhere that the Vinashaak was actually a reskinned Nightmare juggernaut, rather than being a Shivan design in the beginning.

I'd like to see what the original looked like if that was the case.

IIRC it was one of aldo's models...so yeah, definitely was a Nightmare at one point.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on November 29, 2009, 05:45:12 am
The six-tentacle squid the Vidyahar.
The Vindhyachal is a bomber (with a beam cannon)...that looks like a spider. Giant for a bomber but it's still well below cruiser size.
Vidyadhar actually. :P


TBH from the scrambled shot it looks almost like the Narada from the recent Star Trek film.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on November 29, 2009, 05:56:04 am
Compare http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/ND_Unknown to http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/SPD_Vinaashak then.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on November 29, 2009, 07:15:05 am
Compare http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/ND_Unknown to http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/SPD_Vinaashak then.
Who's that directed at?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Woomeister on November 29, 2009, 03:45:40 pm
I'd like to see what the original looked like if that was the case.
The original was untextured
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on November 29, 2009, 06:07:41 pm
EDIT: Wrong thread :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on November 29, 2009, 11:23:50 pm
A year since?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on November 30, 2009, 12:24:19 am
Since the actual release...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on November 30, 2009, 12:38:04 am
Of...inferno?
:wtf:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: blowfish on November 30, 2009, 12:57:25 am
Wait **** wrong thread :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on November 30, 2009, 06:18:40 am
Compare http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/ND_Unknown to http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/SPD_Vinaashak then.
Who's that directed at?

I heard somewhere that the Vinashaak was actually a reskinned Nightmare juggernaut, rather than being a Shivan design in the beginning.

I'd like to see what the original looked like if that was the case.

Him.

EDIT: Wrong thread :nervous:

Wait **** wrong thread :nervous:

Uh, that's twice already. :blah:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on November 30, 2009, 11:36:24 am
Why is this thread still here!?!?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on December 01, 2009, 04:18:29 pm
Stupidiously gigantic warships are alluring.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 02, 2009, 06:45:45 am
Ludicrously gigantic warships are alluring.

Fixed. :p

I know someone on HLP has a sig of blackhole's take on the INFR1 ships.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Nuclear1 on December 02, 2009, 08:48:50 pm
Mine? :p

Quote
<Erik> i liked inferno because it had big ships
<Erik> 8D
<Erik> i was like WOOHOO BIG SHIPS
<Erik> ...and then i realised they were stupid
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on December 04, 2009, 09:28:17 am
They weren't stupid when they came out. :doubt:


Seriously, quit your whining it gets old.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 04, 2009, 10:20:11 am
Mine? :p

Yeah. Thanks for putting that up here. :)
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Nuclear1 on December 04, 2009, 11:33:55 pm
They weren't stupid when they came out. :doubt:


Seriously, quit your whining it gets old.

I'm not whining, I'm just saying when everything corvette or bigger has at the very least 6 or 7 big beams that can take out another corvette or badly cripple a ship a whole class above it in a single volley, it gets stupid.  Which is why I don't particularly like the first mission of INFR1. 
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 05, 2009, 12:37:14 am
It's a different design philosophy there, I think. What INFR1 did was turn every single warship into a glass cannon. On the other hand, other mods seem to attempt to build onto :v:'s idea of making warships dangerous but still durable.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on December 05, 2009, 07:39:25 am
They weren't stupid when they came out. :doubt:


Seriously, quit your whining it gets old.

I'm not whining, I'm just saying when everything corvette or bigger has at the very least 6 or 7 big beams that can take out another corvette or badly cripple a ship a whole class above it in a single volley, it gets stupid.  Which is why I don't particularly like the first mission of INFR1. 
No. The ships were balanced. Balanced differently to many mods, but good mission design could have fixed that. Unfortunately, the earlier missions in the INFR1 package weren't exactly the best.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on December 05, 2009, 10:07:54 am
And the custom sound effects sucked.

And the custom explosion animations were way too ****ing long.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on December 05, 2009, 10:10:17 am
And the custom sound effects sucked.

And the custom explosion animations were way too ****ing long.

Am I right to assume that you are bashing every mod there is, for no apparent reason, besides to be annoying?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on December 05, 2009, 10:19:04 am
No, just INFR1.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Commander Zane on December 05, 2009, 10:24:24 am
Well...I agree with the sounds myself, Descent 3 weapon sounds were terrible, I'd be a little more forgiving with Descent 2 sounds maybe, but even then that's slim.
Nonetheless, Inferno is still hard to not play. :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on December 05, 2009, 12:20:23 pm
No, just INFR1.
Any reason? Or just to be a rebel (despite the fact that it's "in fashion" to bash Inferno and everyone does it for no good reason)?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on December 05, 2009, 12:44:09 pm
I don't think most people bash it, just joke about it.
Only Aardwolf is bashing on it.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Woomeister on December 05, 2009, 01:43:14 pm
Meh we've had posts like that for many years...
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: General Battuta on December 05, 2009, 01:50:23 pm
I really liked INFR1, in retrospect. It had some clumsy design choices, but it also had adrenaline-pumping awesomeness. And it had 'Nemesis', which was just a great mission.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Droid803 on December 05, 2009, 01:53:02 pm
I really liked INFR1, in retrospect. It had some clumsy design choices, but it also had adrenaline-pumping awesomeness. And it had 'Nemesis', which was just a great mission.
QFT.

We just like poking fun at those said design choices, I think.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Woomeister on December 05, 2009, 02:01:02 pm
We just like poking fun at those said design choices, I think.
Hell even we do that :D
It was long ago lol
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Aardwolf on December 05, 2009, 03:28:53 pm
I really liked INFR1, in retrospect. It had some clumsy design choices, but it also had adrenaline-pumping awesomeness. And it had 'Nemesis', which was just a great mission.

I never got that far.  :nervous:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Lucika on December 05, 2009, 03:51:29 pm
Does this gigaship appear in the last INF misson or in one of the super-confusing sidecampaigns?
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Commander Zane on December 05, 2009, 04:01:21 pm
Solar Wars but I can't get it to work. :doubt:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: ShadowGorrath on December 05, 2009, 04:18:35 pm
Solar Wars but I can't get it to work. :doubt:

Trust me when I say that you don't want to get it to work.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 05, 2009, 04:48:19 pm
Without being to cynical, I kinda agree with the post above.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Commander Zane on December 05, 2009, 04:51:39 pm
I just want to see a Super Juggernaut brawl. :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Snail on December 05, 2009, 06:23:51 pm
Does this gigaship appear in the last INF misson or in one of the super-confusing sidecampaigns?
If you are talking about the Gargant, it has not appeared in any publicly released campaigns yet.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Lucika on December 05, 2009, 06:35:47 pm
Does this gigaship appear in the last INF misson or in one of the super-confusing sidecampaigns?
If you are talking about the Gargant, it has not appeared in any publicly released campaigns yet.

I am officially sad.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Commander Zane on December 05, 2009, 06:38:23 pm
Why would you want to fight something that takes two hours to ~k? :P
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 06, 2009, 07:56:25 am
I really liked INFR1, in retrospect. It had some clumsy design choices, but it also had adrenaline-pumping awesomeness. And it had 'Nemesis', which was just a great mission.

INFR1 also had some very interesting weapons in the tables too. The Geodess-1, for instance, or the A.C.R., or the Armageddon.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Commander Zane on December 06, 2009, 08:13:22 am
The Geodess was epic.
The A.C.R., uber-rape. ;7
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dragon on December 06, 2009, 10:53:20 am
Yes, those weapons were excellent.
Cruiser Torpedo also deserves a mention.

Does this gigaship appear in the last INF misson or in one of the super-confusing sidecampaigns?
That's the Gigas, not the Gargant.
I just want to see a Super Juggernaut brawl. :P
Play the aforementioned sidecampaign, it's named Solar Wars.
It's decent, though a Gigas vs. Icanus battle is a bit boring.
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Commander Zane on December 06, 2009, 10:56:06 am
Does this gigaship appear in the last INF misson or in one of the super-confusing sidecampaigns?
Solar Wars but I can't get it to work. :doubt:
I just want to see a Super Juggernaut brawl. :P
Play the aforementioned sidecampaign, it's named Solar Wars.
It's decent, though a Gigas vs. Icanus battle is a bit boring.
I sort of know where the Icanus Vs. Gigas mission is found already, but like I said I've never gotten it to work. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: SH Gargant?
Post by: Dragon on December 06, 2009, 06:19:41 pm
It shouldn't cause any problems, just make sure your INFR1 folder is named "InfernoR1".