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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Vasudan Commander on September 29, 2008, 07:37:44 am

Title: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Vasudan Commander on September 29, 2008, 07:37:44 am
Whats the shivan fighter or bomber you hate the most?

The obvious choice would be the Dragon, but 2x harpoons will put it down.

No, for me, i loathe the Mara. It's the one fighter that seems to move in strange directions. Its shielding is powerful and its weapons and missiles are ample to harass transports, freighters and cruisers.

As for bombers, i hate the Taurvi. Although its payload isn't heavy and has no turrets, its payload is fearsome and its thin profile makes it difficult to hit with guns. Nephilims are also quite nasty - they seem to move in on warships quite quickly and can pack on alot of payload.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: ShadowGorrath on September 29, 2008, 07:48:02 am
Seraphim and dragon. Dragon cause it is just so damn annoying to hit them. Dunno why the Seraphim. If it was in FSPort, then dragon and shaitan. Shaitans are sent en masse, and have too much HP and shields to take out.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Aardwolf on September 29, 2008, 07:54:55 am
I hate the Aeshma because it looks like somebody said "ok, let's come up with the stereotypical Shivan fighter."

I also hate the Taurvi because it looks like somebody said "so, Shivans are spiky and red, right? Let's make a spiky red thing and call it Shivan."

I made a thread about this eons ago.

@ShadowGorrath: Seraphim was introduced in Silent Threat, which (I'm pretty sure) is included with FSPort.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 29, 2008, 07:56:59 am
Dragon, because they're so discouraging to kill, and Seraphim, because they WON'T_DIE. :mad:
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: ShadowGorrath on September 29, 2008, 07:58:16 am
Let's say that I was talking only of the FS1 campaign on FSPort.

Well, basically the answers here will be mostly Dragon-Seraphim.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 29, 2008, 08:03:19 am
What's amazing is that the most despised Shivan small ships are complete opposites. One is on the extreme end of mobility, while the other is on the extreme end of durability.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: ShadowGorrath on September 29, 2008, 08:08:12 am
How about this: a wing of Seraphims, with Dragon escort?
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: BengalTiger on September 29, 2008, 08:09:44 am
In FS 1, the Dragon was the worst there is for sure, however in FS 2 the Mara isn't really such a killer (especially when you get your hands on an Erynies or Ares... Hell, even a Perseus with quad Kaysers can outhandle and outshoot a Mara), and the Dragon doesn't have enough missiles to really be a pain. Also- Trebuchet-killing Dragons is pretty satisfying. The heavy fighters can be Maxim-sniped by a wing of Boanergeses if they warp out 3 klicks away before they can do a thing. Then there's the Astaroth, but that would pwn and own only if it was stealth because it's too delicate. Therefore- no winner during the SSI.

In terms of bombers- the Seraphim, followed closely by the Nahema, which after breaking off it's attack, is a tough nut to crack in anything slower than an interceptor, or with less firepower than an Erynies or Potato.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Galemp on September 29, 2008, 08:54:11 am
 :mad: Act III of FS2 made me hate Nahemas with a black, boiling, all-consuming maelstrom of hatred. They come out of NOWHERE and just NAIL all my Argos with their double Cyclops, then pop out a couple Piranhas while you're trying to chase the bastards down. There's SO MANY of them and they're ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Dragons, eh, I've learned to deal with Dragons. Just don't get in a one-on-one duel with them; with two or three wingmen pelting them with Avengers they go down quick. Basilisks are fun to kill.

The heavier Shivan bombers (Nephilim and Seraphim) can be managed with liberal application of the Shield Breaker or a Circe/Tempest combo. The trick here is to hold your fire until you can pull up behind them, out of the firing arc of their turrets. If you attack on your approach you'll only make them angry.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: DarthWang on September 29, 2008, 09:25:28 am
Terran Mara.

Have you ever tried to fight a wing of those?  :hopping:

Also the Vindyachal (sp?), if it counts

Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Molybdenum on September 29, 2008, 09:30:20 am
Manticores. I find them annoying to hit. The lead tends to make you hit between the wings. All their bombers are nasty but I think Nephilims gave me the biggest headache.

As for non-canon then all trophies go to the Gorgon.  :p
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: TrashMan on September 29, 2008, 09:49:19 am
I hate them all, but Dragon and Manticore take the cake.

speaking of which, if you hate shivans now, you're gonna absolutely LOATH them after COTS.
shields x2, weapon damage x2(3) and your missile capacity reduced... :drevil:
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 29, 2008, 10:12:24 am
Dragons. Definitely dragons. Hate their guts.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Snail on September 29, 2008, 11:54:00 am
As for non-canon then all trophies go to the Gorgon.  :p
From which campaign? The one in Inferno R1 is the cannon fodder of the future.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Polpolion on September 29, 2008, 01:00:21 pm
I think Seraphims are my least favorite. It takes 4 or 5 harpoons to down one, which is more than I'm usually willing to use on a single non-cap craft. If you want to take it down with guns, then you have to approach it just right, or you'll have the crap beaten out of you by a bunch of turrets.

The dragon and manticore aren't too bad, usually. Under normal circumstances, double harps can take them down from ~600m.

Non seraphim bombers all seem to be weak and slow, so they're not too much of a big deal when you catch them quick enough.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: -Joshua- on September 29, 2008, 01:37:55 pm
Actually, the Dragon and Seraphim are not so bad. They are practiccly awesome from the Shivan point of view. And this is how things look like from a shivan point of view:

"Ah crap, a Human flying a Serapis fighter..."
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Shade on September 29, 2008, 01:42:27 pm
Dragons can be surprisingly easy to kill even on hard difficulties... provided you're in an Ursa. That kayser turret will swat them out of the sky like flies as long as you keep them within its firing arc :D
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Mars on September 29, 2008, 02:30:06 pm
In FS1, when missiles were pretty unreliable, the dragon was a nightmare
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: admiral_wolf on September 29, 2008, 03:20:30 pm
I loathe Dragons and Manticores on an equal scale, just impossible to hit the buggers.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 29, 2008, 05:58:15 pm
Aeshma bomber for being ugly and unspectacular, Dragon, SOLELY for that FS1 disable mission that i refused to give up on first time i encountered it, forgetting that i'd played to that point on HArd.........


My favourites are the sexy sexy basilisk and the equally (Shivan Sekhmet) the Nahema :nod:
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Droid803 on September 29, 2008, 06:04:36 pm
I hate the dragon. I can never fly it properly...though the AI is so good with it. Makes me feel incompetent.
I also hate the Seraphim. I can't hit stuff properly with it, though the AI has no problems.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 29, 2008, 07:40:59 pm
Nephilim and Mara.

Yes the Seraphim is crazy durable and pretty well-armed, but if it tries to come after you the poor bastard's just not going to be able to hit a fighter-sized target. It's no threat to me. On the other hand, Nephilim given orders to attack the player...well they have seven damn guns in one bank, enough durablity to survive a head-on pass, and a slow enough closing speed that they can get off multiple missile shots before the merge. They'll smack you up pretty good.

And the Mara? Dragon with bigger teeth and less of an inconveniently timed afterburner fetish.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: eliex on September 29, 2008, 09:54:18 pm
Fighter - Manticore
Always hard to hit and sent en masse most of the time.

Bomber - Nahema
Powerful and can close in distance between targets very quickly. Unbelievably high afterburner max for a bomber; outflies my guns.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Excalibur on September 29, 2008, 11:04:26 pm
Nephilim and Mara.

Yes the Seraphim is crazy durable and pretty well-armed, but if it tries to come after you the poor bastard's just not going to be able to hit a fighter-sized target. It's no threat to me. On the other hand, Nephilim given orders to attack the player...well they have seven damn guns in one bank, enough durablity to survive a head-on pass, and a slow enough closing speed that they can get off multiple missile shots before the merge. They'll smack you up pretty good.

And the Mara? Dragon with bigger teeth and less of an inconveniently timed afterburner fetish.

And an entire wing of Seraphim all attacking the player? I've had that happen plenty. Maras launch massive volleys of hornet#weak at you, but you can out turn most of them. But they are hard to hit when good and don't die...
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Vasudan Commander on September 29, 2008, 11:07:53 pm
the Seraphim seems to have weaker armor and shielding at the front then any other areas, and it has a large target profile, making it easy prey with a Kayser or Lamprey-Maxim mega-combo.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Droid803 on September 29, 2008, 11:21:16 pm
the Seraphim seems to have weaker armor and shielding at the front then any other areas, and it has a large target profile, making it easy prey with a Kayser or Lamprey-Maxim mega-combo.

The Seraphim has a hole in its frontal shielding.
That's offset by its 11 gun mounts. You don't really want to fly there. Even though most will miss, some will hit.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: eliex on September 30, 2008, 02:06:55 am
The Seraphim shares the same Shivan design flaw with the Manticore - bolts that should have missed because they went in-between the Manticore prongs still affect the Seraphim or Manticore's frontal shield.

Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on September 30, 2008, 02:35:08 am
The Seraphim shares the same Shivan design flaw with the Manticore - bolts that should have missed because they went in-between the Manticore prongs still affect the Seraphim or Manticore's frontal shield.



    I don't think that's really a flaw as an aesthetic point. Shields are kept typically round in Freespace. If not, they might look odd. Limit to the technology of the fighters perhaps.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 30, 2008, 10:09:57 pm
Nahema's garbage. Dual Trebuchets take care of most of them. :p

It's the Nephilims and Seraphims that are a terror, because dual Trebuchets will not kill them.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Mongoose on September 30, 2008, 10:57:49 pm
Missiles always seemed like a waste to me on something as big as the Nephilim/Seraphim.  Sure, they're a tough nut to crack, but they're so poky that you can get over to them in a hurry and just park yourself behind them, hacking away at their rear shields/armor.  By virtue of being significantly smaller and faster, Nahemas usually prove much more tricky to take out before they can manage to get at least one bomb salvo off (and sometimes two, if you're particularly unlucky).

Then again, I tend to bring most of my missiles home with me at the end of a mission, so take that with a grain of salt. :p
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: eliex on October 01, 2008, 12:07:21 am

It's the Nephilims and Seraphims that are a terror, because dual Trebuchets will not kill them.

Luckily, a dual Treb occasionally disable a Seraphim, to be gunned down at leisure.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 01, 2008, 12:14:07 am
     I'd vote for the Tauvri personally. It looks cool, and it's always packing Piranhas and it knows how to use them. Though, occasionally the Seraphim can be annoying, just because if you're fighting a wing of them, for whatever reason, their turrets pick you apart and at least one of them's got the full 11 gun salute poking you from behind.


     Most hated fighter? Hmmn . . . . I'd say the Manticore. The Dragon is too rare to really make me hate it, in FS1 it can be annoying, but I'd rather fight a Dragon in FS1 than a HoL Thoth with Prometheus cannons. And while the Mara is cool, it's Hornets are fairly easy to avoid.

So, Tauvri & Manticore for me.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 01, 2008, 01:30:07 am
Did i confuse the Nahema and Nephilim earlier? Which one looks kinda like a sekhmet?
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: ShadowGorrath on October 01, 2008, 01:33:33 am
The Nahema looks more like a Sekhmet.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Colonol Dekker on October 01, 2008, 01:35:38 am
I must have been right earlier on then ;) on reflection i'm not too keen on the taurvi. I never quite worked out what it's gtva equivalent was.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: eliex on October 01, 2008, 04:43:26 am
The strange thing is that the majority of Shivan fighters and bombers are based on complete opposites of Shivan designs.

The fighters and very fast, hard to hit, but have extremely thin hulls.
The majority of the bombers excluding (Shaitan, and Nahema) have absolutely no afterburner, very thick shields and annoyingly strong hulls too.
It's like, "Their existence is a momentary distraction."

However, in FS2, the fighters and bombers become more similar -  prime examples, Mara and Aeshma.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Excalibur on October 01, 2008, 06:20:03 pm
Ashemas have got to be one of the easiest Shivan fighters to kill...
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: eliex on October 01, 2008, 10:48:39 pm
Also it brings to point whether the Shivans are smart or not.
If all of the Aeshma squadrons were destroyed on their first mission with the GTVA then the Shivan Command should just scrap the Aeshmas and reassign the pilots to better fighters.

Then again, maybe only Alpha 1 can easily kill them when they are massed.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 01, 2008, 11:02:27 pm
Also it brings to point whether the Shivans are smart or not.
If all of the Aeshma squadrons were destroyed on their first mission with the GTVA then the Shivan Command should just scrap the Aeshmas and reassign the pilots to better fighters.

Then again, maybe only Alpha 1 can easily kill them when they are massed.

     The Aeshma's a heavy fighter, not a dogfighter. It's meant to take down ships, hence the description:

The SF Aeshma is a relatively rare, and only recently encountered, class of Shivan fighter. It appears to be a heavy attack fighter, like the Basilisk. With a low known top speed, Aeshmas seem to target slower-moving vessels, such as bombers, freighters, and gas miners. Their powerful lasers make them a danger to all such craft, so they must be engaged and destroyed as quickly as possible.

     
      If Alpha 1's in a dogfighter of course he's going to blow the thing apart. Throw the player in a Boanerges and put a pack of Aeshma's on him and it might not be such a laughable fighter after all.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 02, 2008, 12:38:57 am
Libra 1 (flying SF Aeshma): (Flies up to Alpha 1 and goes "HAI! [aka. shoots]")
Libra 1      Destroyed     Kill: Alpha 1 (100%)

:drevil:

I dislike the Taurvis more than Nahemas. The thing is that the Nahema suffers from a huge target profile, while the Taurvi doesn't. If you tried hitting the Taurvi from front, rear or broadside, it's almost impossible.

I don't like Manticores very much either, but they're better than the Dragon because they don't usually outrun dual Interceptors/Harpoons.

Luckily, a dual Treb occasionally disable a Seraphim, to be gunned down at leisure.

It doesn't happen often, but I get that sometimes too. ;)

My wingmen usually kill all nearby Aeshmas before I can fire my guns. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Excalibur on October 02, 2008, 10:24:21 pm
Libra 1 (flying SF Aeshma): (Flies up to Alpha 1 and goes "HAI! [aka. shoots]")
Libra 1      Destroyed     Kill: Alpha 1 (100%)

:drevil:

I dislike the Taurvis more than Nahemas. The thing is that the Nahema suffers from a huge target profile, while the Taurvi doesn't. If you tried hitting the Taurvi from front, rear or broadside, it's almost impossible.

I don't like Manticores very much either, but they're better than the Dragon because they don't usually outrun dual Interceptors/Harpoons.

Luckily, a dual Treb occasionally disable a Seraphim, to be gunned down at leisure.

It doesn't happen often, but I get that sometimes too. ;)

My wingmen usually kill all nearby Aeshmas before I can fire my guns. :rolleyes:

I wasted a whole load of harpoons once in insane trying to kill a Manticore...
and we still only had crappy Prometheus R's and Subachs which aren't so crap, but Prom. S's and above are needed for the "kill in 5 shots" effect.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: asyikarea51 on October 03, 2008, 01:26:34 am
I only play on Medium and even then I still sux, but...

Fighter: Dragon, obvious... I refuse to imagine what it's like fighting them on Insane or with an edited AI Profiles table, and it doesn't even look Shivan enough to me...

Bomber: Nahema... whenever I fight that thing it can always burn past me... I can chase it down, but the Loki lacks firepower :blah:

Then again I hate them all in general - their strafing lets them turn much faster, and turning my mouse to keep up suddenly becomes an enjoyment-detracting chore... on those rare occasions where I get the game working on Linux, my mouse barely moves, and that's even worse~

And the Aeshma to me gives off that "I'm just a useless crap who's slow and weak and I resemble a giant flying face with two hands and my creators didn't even bother to center me in the Techroom" vibe. (no offense intended, it's just the feel of it.)

Whatever deadly repose or whatever it brings is effectively cancelled out - when I'm really pissed, seeing them is like, "Damn, just STFU and GTFO so that I don't have to waste my time pumping Kayser on your ugly (CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED~~~~~)!!!" :mad: :mad: :mad:

:nervous:
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Al Tarket on October 03, 2008, 02:09:30 am
the most hated shivan small ship... would have to be... ... ...the Seraphim. it is so slow, even captial ship turrets could destroy that bomber easy!! :lol:. pump it full off rockeyes along with a volley of energy rounds and it's dead :P
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Vasudan Commander on October 03, 2008, 02:50:36 am
I found the basilisk frustrating because the mongrels came in such huge numbers
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Mongoose on October 03, 2008, 04:16:49 am
Basilisks aren't much better than Aeshmas in the cannon-fodder department, though.  Unless they jump in a few hundred meters away from a weak escort ship and start launching swarm missiles, they're probably not going to be able to do all that much.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 03, 2008, 07:35:45 am
Strangely, I find the Basilisk to be more durable than the Aeshma...just.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Mars on October 03, 2008, 01:39:05 pm
Leviathans go under ridiculously fast if six or so basilisks jump in and start launching (real) Hornets.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Snail on October 03, 2008, 01:57:44 pm
Strangely, I find the Basilisk to be more durable than the Aeshma...just.
The Basilisk is better in almost all respects than the Aeshma. Check the stats. It's true. The Shivans are throwing weaker fighters out.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: eliex on October 03, 2008, 07:17:19 pm
The Basilisk has a really big engine front, announcing "shoot me!"
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Stormkeeper on October 04, 2008, 05:00:26 am
Aeshmas tend to die by my wingmens' hand before i notice them.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Excalibur on October 06, 2008, 11:40:28 pm
Yes, in bearbaiting 's a bore waiting for them to arrive at the end. I have fun telling my wingmen (and ladies) to ignore my target and waste all my Helii on them. Except they are so stupid they think they have enough distance on the bomb and turn 'round to attack me again. Three guesses what the last thing they see is...
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Droid803 on October 06, 2008, 11:53:55 pm
A helios in the face?
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 07, 2008, 02:33:41 am
I wonder how that'll look like... :drevil:
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: BengalTiger on October 07, 2008, 10:36:44 am
Yes, in bearbaiting 's a bore waiting for them to arrive at the end. I have fun telling my wingmen (and ladies) to ignore my target and waste all my Helii on them. Except they are so stupid they think they have enough distance on the bomb and turn 'round to attack me again. Three guesses what the last thing they see is...

He/she/it/other also thinks that <insert proper word>'ll dodge the bomb, but the bomb needs like 1 second to do a loop, so it's impossible. The target usually has to find that out the hard way.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: General Battuta on October 07, 2008, 10:54:25 am
They don't do too much to shields.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 07, 2008, 10:34:05 pm
Actually, I find bombs to be more of anti-shield weapons. I once managed to hit a Basilisk or Aeshma with it, but only the rear quadrant of the Shivan fighter was reduced to nothing.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Excalibur on October 07, 2008, 11:15:35 pm
I wonder how that'll look like... :drevil:

And I view from their camera... :drevil:

Actually, I find bombs to be more of anti-shield weapons. I once managed to hit a Basilisk or Aeshma with it, but only the rear quadrant of the Shivan fighter was reduced to nothing.

I noticed that too, though I think they either had 20% hull or I launched daul bombs, one for shields, the other for hull, since I don't think two bombs can effect a shield quadrant twice if one reduces it to nothing.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: MT on October 07, 2008, 11:58:30 pm
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Helios

Armor Damage            Full     6 800
Shield Damage            Minimal    136
Subsystem Damage    Very Good    5 780

136 points of damage is very little.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Excalibur on October 12, 2008, 10:46:14 pm
May be enough for one quadrant, obviously when that quadrant is out, there isn't a fighter left.

EDIT: checked the WIki, it has 850 shields, /4 = ~212.5 per quadrant. Hmm...must've used missiles first. Though double Helii could take out one quadrant.

The Wiki also states how crap they are, so :nod: they are crap? Confirmed. :yes:
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 13, 2008, 02:53:26 am
It is interesting to see a warhead chasing a fighter, though... :drevil:
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: ShivanSpS on October 14, 2008, 07:12:35 am
Bomber: Taurvi, they are rare, but those bastards are hard to hit, fast, dual bombs, and they tent to dodge the dual trebs.

Fighter: Dragon, fast and hard to hit... Mantis are easier to hit than a dragon, but both dies in dual harpoons at distance.

in multi they are too damn hard to kill with 300 ping...
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Tantalus53 on October 15, 2008, 01:38:46 pm
Fighter: Definately a Gorgon. In the mission where the SD Lucifer destroys the Beta Aquilae Installation in FS1, i remember i lost all the escape pods repeatedly thanks to just the two of them. And in any mission you have to face down dragons back then, it was allmost impossible. In FS2 i tend to just leave them to the AAA defences of capital ships...

Bomber: Definately the Naheema. Mainly because it can generaly out-afterburn you no matter what you fly... and that ticks me off.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 15, 2008, 06:47:24 pm
Fighter: Dragon, fast and hard to hit... Mantis are easier to hit than a dragon, but both dies in dual harpoons at distance.
I think you're referring to the Scorpion, not the Mantis.

Fighter: Definately a Gorgon. In the mission where the SD Lucifer destroys the Beta Aquilae Installation in FS1, i remember i lost all the escape pods repeatedly thanks to just the two of them. And in any mission you have to face down dragons back then, it was allmost impossible. In FS2 i tend to just leave them to the AAA defences of capital ships...
That's the Dragon you're thinking of, not the Gorgon.  The later wasn't in FS1.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: General Battuta on October 15, 2008, 07:43:07 pm
Isn't the Gorgon from Inferno?
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Droid803 on October 15, 2008, 07:44:38 pm
Isn't the Gorgon from Inferno?
and FSPort, yes.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Turnsky on October 15, 2008, 08:29:45 pm
i loathe the Dragons.
Bombers, generally speaking the bigger they are, the slower they are, and the easier it is to stay on their six and put a barrage of fire up their tailpipe  ;)
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: ssmit132 on October 16, 2008, 06:38:47 am
Fighter: Dragon, fast and hard to hit... Mantis are easier to hit than a dragon, but both dies in dual harpoons at distance.
I think you're referring to the Scorpion, not the Mantis.

I think he's refering to Manticores.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Commander Zane on October 23, 2008, 06:28:26 pm
I couldn't help but laugh at the comments about Aeshmas and Basilisks being hard to take on in a bomber.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: eliex on October 23, 2008, 10:07:45 pm
GTB Zeus . . . well it could be considered as a super-heavy fighter in any case . . .

 . . . but the Ursa being big and slow <better not think about it>
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 23, 2008, 10:30:45 pm
I actually find it quite fun to dogfight in an Ursa. It's also quite funny to see your wingman trying to out-turn a Ulysses. :D
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Droid803 on October 23, 2008, 10:33:12 pm
You don't really dogfight in an Ursa...you try to keep your Kayser turret pointed at things.
Now, in a Boanerges, things get interesting.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 23, 2008, 10:39:24 pm
Oh yeah, now that you brought that up... :drevil:

I always have problems aiming when flying the Boanerges. The gun doesn't shoot straight; it shoots upwards.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Excalibur on October 23, 2008, 11:55:28 pm
I knew there was something weird about the way it fired its measly 2 primaries.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Snail on October 24, 2008, 08:12:05 am
GTB Zeus . . . well it could be considered as a super-heavy fighter in any case . . .
The Zeus' armor is so weak it can be taken out by a few Ma'at freighters.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 24, 2008, 09:23:35 am
I knew there was something weird about the way it fired its measly 2 primaries.

It's a pity they were placed in such odd places. The Boanerges is capable of mounting the UD-8 Kayser, which would probably increase the pilot's survival rate a little.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Snail on October 24, 2008, 03:05:23 pm
The Bone is off-center, too, making it really hard to maneuver in addition to its horrible turning rates and speeds.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Commander Zane on October 24, 2008, 03:10:28 pm
Still enjoy offing interceptors in them.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: ShivanSpS on October 24, 2008, 10:47:45 pm
haha you whant something horrible? lets talk about the Osiris...

it can carry a Kayser but hell you cant hit a thing... and very low bomb capacity too... and the turrets are Prom R, with does very low dmg...

It could be a lot better if the turrets where Subach HL-7 and and have 4 primaries in that slot, able to cary 3,3,2 cyclops will be enoght... 
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: eliex on October 25, 2008, 12:12:06 am
The Zeus' armor is so weak it can be taken out by a few Ma'at freighters.

Oh okay. I thought that ship class was determined by the weapon compatibility.

haha you whant something horrible? lets talk about the Osiris...

it can carry a Kayser but hell you cant hit a thing... and very low bomb capacity too... and the turrets are Prom R, with does very low dmg...

It could be a lot better if the turrets where Subach HL-7 and and have 4 primaries in that slot, able to cary 3,3,2 cyclops will be enoght... 

I never ever fly the Osiris if I can help it. It's primary guns are spaced out extremely far apart, making it hard to shoot anything up close.
I mean, in FS1 fighting a wing of Osiris was deadly without shields, but now with low bomb capacity ruining its strength in what is specializes at . . . well, at least there's always the Sekhmet  :)
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Droid803 on October 25, 2008, 01:06:45 am
I once tried dogfighting in a Sehkmet with Maxim loadout. Exetremely frustrating yet strangely satisfying at the same time.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Commander Zane on October 25, 2008, 01:18:43 am
Beacuse after the two minutes of shield pounding the ship suddenly vaporizes. :nod:
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 25, 2008, 03:58:12 am
Well, you know how well they've placed the guns on a Sekhmet. Pity they're quad-linked. :blah:

Using SReds might be good on the Osiris.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Mars on October 26, 2008, 01:00:56 am
The Sekmhet has (I believe) the equivalent of six guns (4+2), due to the fact they're quad linked.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Droid803 on October 26, 2008, 01:04:35 am
Yeah, but that means you shouldn't really take Maxims unless you don't forsee the need to dogfight.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Commander Zane on October 26, 2008, 04:56:08 am
It only has the quad-linked slot, no second gun slot.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Snail on October 26, 2008, 05:31:57 am
The Sekmhet has (I believe) the equivalent of six guns (4+2), due to the fact they're quad linked.
No, it only has 1 quad-linked primary slot. 4 guns in total, all linked. Similar to the Thoth.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 26, 2008, 05:51:38 am
:wtf:

Quad-linked = Four guns of the same type

How many guns does the Seraphim have? Eleven?
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Snail on October 26, 2008, 05:53:57 am
How many guns does the Seraphim have? Eleven?
11, but divided into 3 sets:

2, on the tips of the arms,
6, in the middle of the arms,
3, on the three lower spikes.

If all 11 were linked you'd get a fearsome rate of fire and massive damage with the Maxim...
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 26, 2008, 05:59:06 am
Yeah...with eleven Maxims, you can pulverise shields with one hit, and any hull in 0.5.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Droid803 on October 26, 2008, 11:50:41 am
If you could actually get them all to hit, that is.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Mars on October 26, 2008, 12:52:54 pm
The Seraphim is pretty scary when you first encounter it in Silent Threat. The three Seraphims can take you down pretty quickly if you approach them from the front.
The Sekmhet has (I believe) the equivalent of six guns (4+2), due to the fact they're quad linked.
No, it only has 1 quad-linked primary slot. 4 guns in total, all linked. Similar to the Thoth.
I know, but it has the firepower of a Myrmidon or Hecules because of the fact the four guns it has are quad linked  :rolleyes:

i.e. "they're" means "the four guns the Sekmhet has"

This does limit its versatility, but it has slightly more primary firepower than an Ursa, is extremely maneuverable for a bomber, and has perfect gun placement.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Snail on October 26, 2008, 04:58:17 pm
I know, but it has the firepower of a Myrmidon or Hecules because of the fact the four guns it has are quad linked  :rolleyes:
So the delay is x1.5 the norm when 2 different banks are used? Ah. Ok.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 26, 2008, 09:37:46 pm
How many guns does the Nahema have?
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Droid803 on October 26, 2008, 10:43:18 pm
Four, in two banks. They're moderately far apart. Not an issue when going after Hercs, but you may have trouble hitting small craft like Pegasi with both.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: ssmit132 on October 27, 2008, 06:05:41 am
Yeah...with eleven Maxims, you can pulverise shields with one hit, and any hull in 0.5.

Yes, but because of the Seraphim's size and shape, many of those eleven guns are in positions that are horrendous for dogfighting (I've tried it, although it was with Shivan weaponry which is pathetic). They're better used on cruisers and transports (part of the reason why defending the Lambda transports in Apocalypse is difficult). Now, if they were arranged around the centre of the Seraphim's hull, it would be much better to kill fighters and bombers with.
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Excalibur on October 27, 2008, 09:04:05 pm
A Dragon with 11 primaries...
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 27, 2008, 09:27:24 pm
:wtf:
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: eliex on October 27, 2008, 09:58:23 pm
A dragon with 11 primaries, would have the Dragon look like a hedgehog that would make the enemy die from laughing than fear.  :)
Title: Re: Most hated shivan fighter/bomber
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 27, 2008, 10:24:58 pm
Beta 1: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH- *BOOM*

Beta 1     Destroyed     Kill: Cancer 3 (100%)