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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Mr. Vega on March 13, 2002, 11:13:43 am

Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 13, 2002, 11:13:43 am: There are some weapons in FS2 that just shouldn't have made it past the evaluation period. The two worst in my mind are the inferno and the lamprey.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Shrike on March 13, 2002, 11:28:01 am: Lampreys aren't all that hot.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Thorn on March 13, 2002, 11:29:56 am: Agreed..
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: CP5670 on March 13, 2002, 11:48:30 am: I put them on some of the enemies in my campaign; they can be really annoying when the hostiles use them but are fairly useless for players to use; the kind of weapon that is bad in every way. ;):D
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Skippy on March 13, 2002, 01:10:36 pm: Lamprey is the most useless weapon I have ever seen in a game :nod:
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Razor on March 13, 2002, 02:09:46 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Lampreys aren't all that hot.

Do I need to agree too? ;)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: an0n on March 13, 2002, 02:14:23 pm: I never thought it possible but the Morning Star manages to both suck and blow at the same time. Does it even do anything?
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: mikhael on March 13, 2002, 02:21:30 pm: The morningstar is the gun with the kinetic 'push' right? I like it. It makes it nearly impossible for an enemy fighter to do anything useful when its getting hit with standard primary.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: phreak on March 13, 2002, 02:40:45 pm: Lamprey by far.

I actually find the infyrno useful
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 13, 2002, 02:48:38 pm: As what? As what! I've tested the inferno on a number a things, including using them on corvettes (it does damage to a moloch, but trebs do more for the space they take up), and I just can't find a good use with them.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Alikchi on March 13, 2002, 02:50:49 pm: I like using the Inferno to break up bomber formations. I have a modified one with a shockwave, it's great for just shaking them up.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 13, 2002, 02:51:53 pm: Oh, well, then you've got a nice weapon.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: an0n on March 13, 2002, 02:54:38 pm: The single most useless thing in the entire FS universe (excluding the 3rd fleet and their defensive actions in Capella) has to be the entire Ares line. They're slow, have crap weapon-defences ratio and they ain't exactly the prettiest ship. The only good thing about them is the masses of armour and shields but those little bonuses are offset by the crappy speed and maneuverability.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 13, 2002, 03:03:08 pm: I think of the Ares a a fusion of the Herc II and the Erinyes
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: an0n on March 13, 2002, 03:05:45 pm: It's a purple HercII with wings.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Thorn on March 13, 2002, 03:10:42 pm: Whats even worse, it has more engines, yet its slower...
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 13, 2002, 03:42:59 pm: ...Because it has larger mass and inertia, maybe?;)

The Ares is half bomber. Not bad, but I prefer intercepts.

And the worst weapon? Infyrno. I have yet to hit anything with it, and keep in mind I've detonated them from two meters away from enemy ships, as well as a half dozen other positions. They're simply useless, and all those explosions going exactly the same looks like ****. The Lamprey is a nice idea, it's good to build on by supercharging it in mods, and its little loadout anim kicks ass. Nobody who really wanted to do any damage would pick out a Lamprey, whether they knew much of anything about it or not, because anyone with common sense would realize that you're trying to kill the other guy as quickly as possible, not drain his power reserves, take a minute, and THEN kill him, after a suitable time to get your ass shot off yourself. Thus, it sucks less than some.

I'd have to say, though, for primary weapons the Prometheus R takes the cake, as both useless and high-consumption. Subaches are more dangerous, and don't drain your power within seconds.
A close second would be the Maxim, simply because you can't bloody aim when your ship is doing the can-can.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: an0n on March 13, 2002, 03:52:42 pm: Infyrno's are good for taking down the support ships.

Press: c, 5, turn to face support ship, y, space-bar, space-bar
at the appropriate times and you get to see those pretty little re-arm ships tumble out of control and explode.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: BlackDove on March 13, 2002, 03:56:08 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Skippy
Lamprey is the most useless weapon I have ever seen in a game :nod:

You saw it?

:D:D:D:D
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 13, 2002, 04:24:57 pm: Quote
A close second would be the Maxim, simply because you can't bloody aim when your ship is doing the can-can.

It's designed for cruisers, not fighters or bombers. If you miss cruisers, play something else.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 13, 2002, 04:26:57 pm: Who needs an anti-cruiser weapon? I've taken down cruisers with Subaches!
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 13, 2002, 04:28:27 pm: Quote
I've taken down cruisers with Subaches!

In about 3 hours.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 13, 2002, 04:36:28 pm: In about 5 seconds. Most capships aren't all that tough, dude. The only ones with even reasonable armor to protect against fighters are the Sath and Colossus.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 13, 2002, 04:54:18 pm: I'm referring to the really tough ones like the Lilith.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Galemp on March 13, 2002, 05:11:06 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
The Ares is half bomber.

Agreed. The Ares is a bomber that can't carry bombs. :rolleyes:

Just a comment for the Lamprey-bashers: Has anyone tried using it in multiplayer?? Aha, now you know why it's in there.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 13, 2002, 06:49:50 pm: I've never used the Lamprey much, so is the damage to shields, and afterburners permanent?
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: CP5670 on March 13, 2002, 11:02:52 pm: I personally think the Ares is awesome; next to the Tauret, it is definitely my favorite fighter.

The Lamprey basically drains your afterburner/weapon/shield energy reserves, but they recharge over time as long as you have some energy allocated to them.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: LtNarol on March 13, 2002, 11:26:18 pm: For those of you slandering the Maxim cannon, i would like to point out that it has the highest range of ALL primary weapons, it kills cruisers extremely fast, 5 seconds of continuous fire 4 way linked for a Fenris, which would take closer to 20 or 30 seconds with a Subach. Also, i have killed many players online with it simply because of the hull damage it does.

The morning star is very useful, especially in multiplayer. Virtually all experienced players use them in TVTs.

The Inferno is useful in its own ways, they are very versatile for a missile and can be used as a simple dumbfire, fighter suppression, and even disarming/disabling. While there are better weapons for each of these jobs, this is one that fullfills each of those fields and im sure many others.

The Lamprey on the other hand, is in my opinion rather useless as the Circe does the same thing only better. The Cirice looks cooler too. :rolleyes:

(500 posts! woohoo)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Kamikaze on March 13, 2002, 11:38:11 pm: Boo Lamprey! I have nothing better to say... :p
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: CP5670 on March 14, 2002, 12:00:22 am: The Maxim is simply fantastic; one of the coolest weapons I have seen in any game. ;):D
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Setekh on March 14, 2002, 05:07:21 am: The Lamprey might actually be cool if it sapped about the triple the power. Then it could be cool in conjunction with something like the Prometheus S. Would be useful for taking down those annoying interceptors that burner away from you when you pursue them, especially since Shivan ships are outrageously fast. It would be even more useful when flying heavy assault (since your speed will be limited).
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: CP5670 on March 14, 2002, 09:15:48 am: Yeah, that's what I did in my campaign; the Lamprey does twice the damage (or energy draining) and the projectiles move a lot faster. I have put the normal Lamprey on some of the enemy fighters though; it can be extremely annoying to suddenly have your gun and shield energy drop to zero. It seems to be very effective when used by the enemy but player's usually cannot do much with it. (except in multiplayer)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Stunaep on March 14, 2002, 11:02:36 am: Hmh. No prometheus R. IMHO, that piece of cows buttocks isn't worth a 1/4 of a dime. Well, Infyrno finishes close second. As and fighter supression weapon, Piranha does a clean sweep, and welll the Infyrno aint useful for anything else as well

:headz: Man, I love this smiley
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: diamondgeezer on March 14, 2002, 11:03:18 am: Most pathetic weapon of all time, any game, ever: Klobb

And you lot stop your Ares bashing, I knows where th'lives :mad2:
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Setekh on March 15, 2002, 07:12:56 am: Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep
Hmh. No prometheus R. IMHO, that piece of cows buttocks isn't worth a 1/4 of a dime.

Oh, the Prom R...

Yeah, that's pretty pants as well...
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: CP5670 on March 15, 2002, 09:52:19 am: Yeah, I would say the Prometheus R is even worse than the Lamprey. At least the Lamprey has some usefulness in multiplayer dogfights; the Prometheus R is complete crap against anything.

Infyrno is very good actually in my opinion; it takes some experience to use it correctly, but it pays off. With some practice, you can usually take down entire wings of enemy bombers with one missile. In multiplayer TvT/dogfight games, most people do not allow its usage because they think it is unbalanced.

BTW has anyone noticed that the Prometheus S is just the Prometheus R turned on its side? (in the weapon selection menu animations)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 15, 2002, 11:19:39 am: Quote
BTW has anyone noticed that the Prometheus S is just the Prometheus R turned on its side? (in the weapon selection menu animations)

Amazing how turning it on its side could make it so much better.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: TeflonBob on March 15, 2002, 01:10:59 pm: Lamprey = big grey pants but i also hate the akethon, ok so sometimes you have to use it if your disabling a weak hulled ship but i spent 5 minutes trying to cripple a couple maras with it, i could have taken out half a dozen wings with a pair of kaysers.

Infyrno pirhana emp never use any of them, i usually damage myself with the infyrno and the emp? well i don't actually see what it does apert from look pretty.

Maxim, Kayser, Prom S + Harpoon, Tornado, Treb, Tempest and Rockeye. Never use anything else.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: LtNarol on March 15, 2002, 02:10:20 pm: Ahketons are there for a reason my friend, they're designed to disable and disarm capital ships, especially the smaller ones. They were not meant to be anti-fighter weapons like the Kayser. In my opinion, every weapon was designed for a specific scenario, and therefore they all are very useful for certain missions. I find the Lamprey to be not so hot because it does the same thing as the Circe, but the Circe does more, and therefore makes the Lamprey obsilete (sp).
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Thorn on March 15, 2002, 02:40:41 pm: Bah! I use the Ahketon to knock out fighters shields, it does it pretty damn fast...
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Galemp on March 15, 2002, 10:34:55 pm: Eh, disruptor cannons are useless when you have the Stiletto. You used them a lot more in FS1 than FS2, though.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Kamikaze on March 15, 2002, 10:41:39 pm: Quote
Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Eh, disruptor cannons are useless when you have the Stiletto. You used them a lot more in FS1 than FS2, though.

Stilettos are cool :) However limited their use may be... :p
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Vortex on March 15, 2002, 11:13:08 pm: Lamprey is the only weapon that really sucks. Every other one has some sort of use in multiplayer (infyrnos rock in df).
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Setekh on March 16, 2002, 12:21:51 am: Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
BTW has anyone noticed that the Prometheus S is just the Prometheus R turned on its side? (in the weapon selection menu animations)

You're not kidding? Gee, I gotta look closer, the next time I play... :)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Vortex on March 16, 2002, 06:31:51 am: Promethius on the Side??

I wonder what the R would be then, rightside up??
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Raven2001 on March 16, 2002, 08:42:20 am: I'm SORRY?!?!?!?! The Ares is an excellent ship if you use it on the right purpose, and use it properly...

Of course, the Ares can't take a fighter very good, nor a destroyer, but it can take out a cruiser or corvette in a nano... you don't have to stop to rearm very often... and if well loaded in primarys you can take a fighter easily...
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 16, 2002, 08:51:51 am: Quote
Originally posted by Vortex
Promethius on the Side??

I wonder what the R would be then, rightside up??

Prometheus Standard
Prometheus Retrofit
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: CP5670 on March 16, 2002, 11:49:34 am: Ares is definitely the second best fighter in the game in my opinion, just edged out by the Tauret. The Sekhmet functions very well as a fighter too. :)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: LtNarol on March 16, 2002, 12:14:53 pm: Myrmidon....speed, maneuverability, firepower, and a decent shield system. Dont get much better than that.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Galemp on March 16, 2002, 03:28:02 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Vortex
Lamprey is the only weapon that really sucks.

How very true... :lol:
Title: Fav Weaps and Platforms
Post by: Liberator on March 16, 2002, 11:56:04 pm: Weapons Platforms
Erinyes - Good Combo of Speed, Firepower and Defense.
Perseus - Same as above favoring speed, I'd still take one of the old Valkyies tho'

Kayser - Fast kills on every thing
Maxim - Fastest Cap ship disabler available, comboed with above, death to all but bombers 3/4 volleys.

Harpoon - Most bang for the buck in terms of no. carryable vs. other missles(3-4 extra vs. Tornado)
Trebuchet - Just cause their cool!;7

I'll take a Cyclops over a Helios, due to the lower firing time. This is so for all but Juggies and if you try to fight one w/o a fleet, or MONDO amounts of BackUp, your screwed.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Kitsune on March 17, 2002, 12:03:16 am: There is a use for infyrnos though.
Unlike trebs, they can kill corvettes and big-ships. 2 infyrnos=1.5% damage to a corvette.

Yes trebs hurt them, but treb's can't do the final 10%

I was experimenting with them in a custom campaign and after three wings had disabled a sobek, we weren't doing anything more to it. I fired a pair of infyrno's and it dropped to 9%. Another pair took it to 7%...

Reloading too often sucks but it worked.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: vadar_1 on March 17, 2002, 12:08:24 am: Morning Star has great use. specially on bombers ive found. Its ability to "push" fighters around makes it easier to outmanuver them in a bomber. Just get a few quick shots as a fighter flys by and it will start spinning a little bit and slowing down dramatically as a result. You should get to know your weapons a little bit more :)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Setekh on March 17, 2002, 03:24:59 am: Quote
Originally posted by vadar_1
Morning Star has great use. specially on bombers ive found. Its ability to "push" fighters around makes it easier to outmanuver them in a bomber. Just get a few quick shots as a fighter flys by and it will start spinning a little bit and slowing down dramatically as a result. You should get to know your weapons a little bit more :)

That is, assuming you can hit the darn fighter in the first place... ;)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Kitsune on March 18, 2002, 01:13:50 am: The morning star does it's job just fine.
In the mission where you're flying against delta wing who have a wing of pegasus stealth fighters, those little things get really beaten around. I blew one almost 1k away from the fenris. Unfortunately, alpha 2 and 3 don't seem to understand how to protect a ship. I returned to find them nowhere near the cruiser and delta 2/3 just sitting there firing away like there's no tomorrow. That was the first time I've ever seen a ai fighter stand still like that.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Setekh on March 18, 2002, 03:12:03 am: Quote
Originally posted by Kitsune
That was the first time I've ever seen a ai fighter stand still like that.

I've only seen them stand still like that on very few moments; usually they'll just keep flying forward, which tends to mean they crash into the ship they're firing at.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 18, 2002, 04:13:43 pm: I've had Dragons park behind me.

And they do stop, if there's no threat at all. Gives 'em better aim.

The morningstar is a fantastic weapon. The aforementioned Dragons?;7
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: LtNarol on March 18, 2002, 05:02:06 pm: i was bombing a demon once in one of my missions, Sekhmet with 6 helios and 7 piranahs. Some dumb Mara parks behind me while i was unloading my helios and starts to nibble at my rear shields. Now i absolutely dispise people looking over my shoulder, so i turns around and blasts him with my piranahs :D.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: WMCoolmon on March 18, 2002, 11:05:31 pm: Maxims are good... One time I was in a mission which had a Cain and a Sobek in it (or maybe a Lilith and a Sobek...hmm) At any rate, the Lilith ended up getting disabled, and all of the enemy fighters were gone. So, what does the Sobek do? It fires on the Lilith with its AAAf beams. When hit by them, the Lilith spun around like a top, and me firing my Maxim to keep it spinning didn't help it at all. I imagine the Shivans on it were pretty seasick.
Of course, me and my Maxim put them out of their misery in relatively short order :D
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: LtNarol on March 18, 2002, 11:20:09 pm: aaaf can spn a lilith? COOL
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Joey_21 on December 31, 2002, 12:12:58 pm: Other:

After the Tornadoes were introduced the Hornets were pretty much useless. ;)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Anaz on December 31, 2002, 12:25:11 pm: joey...someone vote bumped this...look at the post dates...just let it die back into obscurity...
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: SKYNET-011 on December 31, 2002, 12:41:43 pm: Oops, Heh. :D
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 31, 2002, 01:20:20 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Joey_21
After the Tornadoes were introduced the Hornets were pretty much useless. ;)

Not necessarily - you get more Hornets for your money then Tornados. Might be a factor for the pilot with a lot of killing to do...

You know, the admins really ought to fix this vote-bump thing...
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Knight Templar on December 31, 2002, 04:04:49 pm: *Scolds diamondgeezer for insulting the Klobb*

:p :p :p
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Mr. Vega on December 31, 2002, 10:02:01 pm: Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Not necessarily - you get more Hornets for your money then Tornados. Might be a factor for the pilot with a lot of killing to do...

You know, the admins really ought to fix this vote-bump thing...

The problem is the Hornets take to long to launch. With the Hornet it takes 2 seconds for all the missiles get out of the rack, or whatever holds the missiles, and then it takes time for the missiles to chase the target. With the tornado they all launch at once and bam! there chasing the ship.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 01, 2003, 02:22:07 am: Fair enough, but you still get more of them. Some people might like that.

And the Klobb is without doubt the Worst Gun Ever™. I remember Rare making an explicit promise not to include it in Perfect Dark :nod:
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Knight Templar on January 01, 2003, 02:43:07 am: Yes, but it made one of the coolest sounds and was great as a Jerk off gun.. you know multiplayer, messing around, storming hallways spraying bullets everywhere.

Was the closest you could get to private ryan at the time (with two Klobbs) :D

I must admit though, the RCP-90 owns j00 :thepimp:
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 01, 2003, 02:46:18 am: Remember at the end of the Caverns when you could get two AR33 rifles? Much death was dispensed with those babies :nod:

Or when you kill Xenia, and steal her RCP-90/Grenade Launcher combo :D
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Knight Templar on January 01, 2003, 02:59:15 am: Yeah that was awesome :D

*Remembers RCP-90 on train. Shooting people through the doors while they were on toilet = teh cool ;7 *

*also remembers insanely pissing off remaining friends when racing to pick oddjob, then beatign them to the nearest RCP in multiplay and killing htme while they are still unarmed*

:devil:
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 01, 2003, 03:04:09 am: Heh... I remember Elvis being described as Perfect Dark's "new Oddjob, for the scum of the Universe" :D

Janus Marine was my dude of choice. We actually ran some tests one time, and found that Janus Marine and the Helicopter Pilot were faster than any other character. Strange, but true.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Knight Templar on January 01, 2003, 03:08:47 am: Nuh uh? hmmm

Always got Oddjob :) I was cheap, If they beat me to it, I went back to select screen. They said boris was shorter than the others by a little bit too.

Elvis was shorter, but is head is practical half his body and its hard not to kill the bugger in 2 or 3 shots.. really easy if you have am RCP-120 or Mayan Machine Gun
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 01, 2003, 03:15:57 am: My favourite way of playing PD multiplayer against bots was to use eight mayans on the lowest AI setting, and hunt them :nod:

Two people could rack up 50 kills in about a minute :D

And me and me brother liked to square off against a pair of Dark sims with Myamoto's face... they usualy beat us :)

Hey - did you ever find all the cheese?
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Knight Templar on January 01, 2003, 03:20:58 am: I only found most of them via Guide book. Few levels didn't have them, forget which though. I think Extraction was one. Perhaps the last one too. I never got the bonus levels past the skedar one either :(

I used to play multiplayer for hours though.. Lobsterclaw would come over and spend the night.. we'd play till 4 - 5 , go to bed, wake up at 10 - 12 and play for another 3 hours :D

i think I got my ranking to level 7 and accuracy to %35 - %50 more than a Million rounds fired off or something around there :D
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: silverwolf on January 01, 2003, 10:56:18 am: in fs2 i found the ultimate should have been left on the drawing boards in fs2 i give you:
a.laser turrent (come on those died with fs1)
b. flak cannons(eh all they do is annoy fighters not kill them)

so there are my most usless weapons just don't kill me because they are not player weapons.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 01, 2003, 11:22:05 am: So the Sathanas' heavy flak guns never got you when you were taking out its beams, eh?

Thing about flak is that whilst it may start out as just annoying, if you linger in range of it or you get a determined fighter on your tail whilst the flak pummels your shields, it becomes a major problem very fast. Once your shields are gone, your hull just gets shredded. And of course, you can't dodge it or outrun it. Nasty buisness.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Nuclear1 on January 01, 2003, 12:14:36 pm: Flak is pretty good for killing anything that doesn't have GVC, GVD, GTC, GTD, or GTVA in its name. If a group of hostile Elysiums or Azrael pass by anything with flak, its buh-bye transports. Freighters fall to the same fate (not mentioning the name *cough* POSEIDON *cough*), as well as science cruisers.

Like Dg said, without shields, flak is 1337. That is why, ladies and gentlemen, nobody makes a mission to attack an Aeolus (shiver) in subspace without Maxims or Trebs.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: silverwolf on January 01, 2003, 12:50:35 pm: hmm only if i knew how to fred. i would make that mission and not let them have maxims. maybe trebs depending on what mood i'm in the day i make it....once i learn to fred.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: kasperl on January 01, 2003, 01:08:36 pm: Quote
Originally posted by nuclear1
Flak is pretty good for killing anything that doesn't have GVC, GVD, GTC, GTD, or GTVA in its name.

i didn't now a corvette or a shatanas (or other shivan capship)could be killed by flak..... ;)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: beatspete on January 01, 2003, 01:55:12 pm: Quote
Originally posted by nuclear1
... a mission to attack an Aeolus (shiver) in subspace without Maxims or Trebs.

:shaking:

Flak seems annoying at first, but if the turret doesnt find a new target, you need to run after a while and some of them have pretty long ranges.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Sandwich on January 01, 2003, 07:22:11 pm: No reason to close this just because it's old... the discussion's still relatively on topic.

Flak can be quite powerful against other capships. You just never really get to see it in action in such a manner since it usually is targeting all the fighters flying around.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Sesquipedalian on January 02, 2003, 12:50:50 am: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Flak can be quite powerful against other capships.
Indeed. I've seen flak do some pretty serious damage against other capital ships in close combat.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 02, 2003, 12:54:45 am: It's effectiveness lies in the rapid fire rate and range... you just can't escape it quickly when need to, and it never stops...
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: BlackDove on January 02, 2003, 01:00:09 am: Uhm a lot of people said Lamprey sucks. It actually does not, I used to believe so until I tried it out in multiplayer. It drains the guns and the afterburners, which make it REALLY useful in an Erinyes, or in an Aeolus duel where two people take an Eri with maxims and shoot the enemy aeoluses. So if the guy going after the Erinyes takes a Lamprey, he can delay the Erinyes from shooting more than it would take him to actually kill him. Lamprey is very effective against Erinyes...renders the ship useless.

Circe is the most unecessary weapon. It's damage/usefulness fades to what a PromS and Kayser can do. Kayser has 5 points to sheild, circe has 6, however circe doesnt have any hull, while kayser has 6...and morningstar is a tactical weapon, which has proven its usefulnes so much that it is a standard issue in a herc2 multiplayer...

thats all...
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Sandwich on January 02, 2003, 08:38:32 am: Multiplayer guns have been heavily modified for balance by Volition, BD. You can't compare multi to single.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: CP5670 on January 02, 2003, 09:36:13 am: I still think the Prometheus R is the most useless weapon. At least the Lamprey, Circe and the rest have something that they are fairly good against, but the R cannot do anything well; it sucks in just about every conceivable way. :p

The sm1-03 mission is a nice example of flak in action against warships btw.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Nuclear1 on January 02, 2003, 12:32:51 pm: Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
I still think the Prometheus R is the most useless weapon. At least the Lamprey, Circe and the rest have something that they are fairly good against, but the R cannot do anything well; it sucks in just about every conceivable way. :p

Actually, I liked the Prom. R-Subach combo for a while, but the second the Prom. S came in, ;7 the Shivans got what the nasty arse-kicking that was overdue them.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Sesquipedalian on January 02, 2003, 03:43:39 pm: The Circe is great. My prefered weapon loadout is almost always a Maxim-Circe combo. Great in conjuction against fighters, and flipping off the Circe to take down capital ships works wonderfully. It is the most versatile combination around, and consumes less energy than dual Kaysers.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Nuclear1 on January 02, 2003, 04:42:38 pm: i dont even want to know who put Stilleto under useless weapons.... :doubt:

I love using it in multi just for taking down those pesky anti-fighter beams on corvettes and cruisers (but, of course, I use the treb for that too :D ).

Morning Star- Excellent single player weapon as well as multi. I use it mainly to shove Shivan bombers off and to shoot their bombs down (if you do it right, you can move larger ships like cruisers too).

Lamprey-Like people said before, use it to drain the guns and afterburners on other ships in muti; useless in SP tho.

Circe- Fully agree with Sesq on this. Use it with the Maxim and you've got a lotta dead Shivans (or anything else with shields for that matter), especially then placed on a Herc II (little energy consumption; good gun placement).

Inferno- I use this in the Bastion mission occasionally, mainly to give the Shivan bombers (especially Nephilim and Seraphim) a little surprise and pain. I use in MP mainly to damage cruisers/corvettes and to damage escort fighters packed in tightly.

As long as we're on the subject....

Prometheus R - Love the Subach-Prom. R combo; Subach depletes shields while the Prom dishes the damage; grows useless after the Prom. S comes into service.

Tempest-Excellent for wasting Fenrises (no kidding? :D); more seriously, takes out large turrets (like the Orion's main guns, the Hecate's flak turrets, and the Aeolus's guns) with ease; can fit 400 of them in the Herc II's second back.

Hornet-Good mainly because of the amount carried. Wastes old transports easily (ex. Azrael, Isis, Elysium). Aside from that, nothing really good there. And, like the Prom. R, becomes outdated when the Tornado comes into service.

Pirahna - Overrated. People say its great for surpressing fighters, though it doesn't really work well when i use it; mainly just used to pester enemy fighters and shake 'em up a bit by the shockwave, which lets you get a good aim with Harpoons.

EMP-Awesome for escort missions; scrambles enemy bombers tracking systems and sends them off course.

Those should be all the *pathetic* weapons.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Knight Templar on January 02, 2003, 05:40:42 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Ses

The Circe is great. My prefered weapon loadout is almost always a Maxim-Circe combo. Great in conjuction against fighters, and flipping off the Circe to take down capital ships works wonderfully. It is the most versatile combination around, and consumes less energy than dual Kaysers.

Meh,I sued to agree with you, but I think the Kayser/maxim is better if you are going to go that way. You trade one shield damage for 6 hull ...

anyways, I could never hit anything other than the occasional bomber or cruiser with the hornet.. :blah:

Inferno is kind of a more fun weapon than good one. Splosions'
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: CP5670 on January 02, 2003, 10:53:21 pm: Quote
Prometheus R - Love the Subach-Prom. R combo; Subach depletes shields while the Prom dishes the damage; grows useless after the Prom. S comes into service.

Even against hull though, it's not that great. It does a respectable amount of damage per shot, but the firing rate is pretty low, so overall the Subach actually does more damage. (Prom R does about 578 damage to hull in 10 seconds while Subach does 675 over the same period) The shield and subsystem capabilities are even much worse. Add to the fact that the shots move somewhat slowly, and it makes one wonder what the engineers were smoking when they designed this thing. :p :D

Quote
Actually, I liked the Prom. R-Subach combo for a while, but the second the Prom. S came in, the Shivans got what the nasty arse-kicking that was overdue them.

lol yeah the S was a really big advance over any previously available weaponry; the first time I saw it I had the same thought... (wait until the shivans see this! :D)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Joey_21 on January 02, 2003, 11:43:20 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Analazon
joey...someone vote bumped this...look at the post dates...just let it die back into obscurity...

:o

Not my fault... it was laying plain on the front page of this forum so I figured it had to be new. :p
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Sesquipedalian on January 03, 2003, 02:25:53 am: Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar

Meh,I sued to agree with you, but I think the Kayser/maxim is better if you are going to go that way. You trade one shield damage for 6 hull ...
But the energy consumption, man, the energy consumption. The Circe does 112.5 units of shield damage per second while comsuming 2.5 energy units, while the Kayser does 100.8 but consuming 4.8 energy units! Yes, you are getting hull damage too, but only for the five seconds before your reserves are depleted. I HATE running out of weapon energy.

Same reason why I never take a Kayser on an Erinyes. All those guns, and only two shots off per minute. :rolleyes:
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Blue Lion on January 04, 2003, 12:02:20 am: In an Ares you can have kayser/maxim and not run out of energy. I think, been a while anyways, so I may be wrong.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Knight Templar on January 04, 2003, 12:19:08 am: It last longer, but not forever. the mission with the moloch and the nebtuu I usually use the Ares with kaysers and maxims.

By the time I get enough power distributed to each system, I'm cruising at about 51 m/s and My guns run out of power in like 6 seconds of sustained fire. If you can measure it by that.
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: beatspete on January 04, 2003, 05:02:01 pm: I always find the Prom S a bit more useful than the Kayser. It doesnt use as much energy, has longer range (i think, check the Tbls), and only does slightly less damage. Loaded into the double slot of certain fighters (myrm etc) to preserve fire rate, its a very nice weapon indeed :nod:
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: CP5670 on January 04, 2003, 05:37:27 pm: Yeah, the Prometheus S actually does have a couple of advantages over the Kayser. The range is 1500 over the Kayser's 950, and the projectile speed and energy consumption are slightly superior (750 and 1.0 compared to 650 and 1.2), so it is the weapon of choice against fast moving stuff such as Dragons. There is a significant difference in the overall damages though due to the Kayser's faster rate of fire (prometheus does 771.43 and 857.14 in ten seconds to hull and shields respectively while kayser does 1120 and 1008).
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: Black Wolf on January 08, 2003, 08:46:35 am: Storywise, the Kayser has the big advantage that it can be produced without Argon (ie. without contact with earth or the Shivan nebula.)
Title: Weapons that shouldn't have made it to combat
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 09, 2003, 07:48:49 am: Kayser is my choice for quickly chewing up a wing of Shivan bombers

*has flashback to Clash of the Titans II*

*shudders*