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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: eliex on January 02, 2009, 06:54:07 pm

Title: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: eliex on January 02, 2009, 06:54:07 pm
What do you think happened to the possible Vasudans in Sol? At the end of the Great War, several Thoth fighters managed to survive and reach Earth - and possibly more Vasudans (scientists probably) had already moved into Sol. Although a small population: 100 or so, they might have flourished.

My opinions is that after 14 long years of war, the normal civilians listening to all the hatred of Vasudans would have shunted and possibly killed the Vasudans off because only the soldiers could have made true friendships with them through comradeship of battle.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: ShadowGorrath on January 02, 2009, 07:03:01 pm
I'd say that there were much more vasudans in Sol. And I doubt that they'd be killed.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Admiral Nelson on January 02, 2009, 07:04:55 pm
Isn't there mention someplace of a Vasudan Embassy?
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 02, 2009, 07:21:09 pm
Don't know but I bet anchovies rapidly became extinct.   :pimp:
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Deepstar on January 02, 2009, 07:33:15 pm
I think that they're dead.

It's possible that they are killed by vasudan haters, also that some are went suicide, because they realize that they are apart from their species forever.

Or they built a small ship and try to reach Alpha Centauri in an conventional way :D
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Aardwolf on January 02, 2009, 07:45:01 pm
Don't know but I bet anchovies rapidly became extinct.   :pimp:

/me agrees with the Futurama reference
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Mongoose on January 02, 2009, 09:36:12 pm
I can see them turning out all right in the end.  There was probably a good mix of scientists, ambassadors, and military types in Sol by the end of the war, and they would most likely have developed good working relationships with their Terran counterparts even in that short time.  Provided the situation in Sol didn't get incredibly nasty in the interim, I don't see public opinion turning against them all that easily.  Hell, the Vasudans who flew against the Lucifer and made it through helped save the population of Earth; they probably received a hero's welcome along with the rest of the squadron.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: General Battuta on January 02, 2009, 09:48:00 pm
Wasn't there a plot element of MindGames concerning the Vasudan remnants in Sol?
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: BrotherBryon on January 02, 2009, 10:20:14 pm
There is a Vasudan cruiser in Earth orbit at the end of the main Freespace campaign.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Droid803 on January 02, 2009, 10:30:43 pm
Isn't that a scene from the GTD Washington thing, of which was added by FSPort?
But I don't find it too unbelievable that a Typhon or a few cruisers went to Sol to help out.
They said no destroyer could make it in time, but there may have been one waiting at the other end.
Heck, the HoL managed to get a Typhon into Delta Serpentis in time to...well...in time to intercept the Bastion.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 03, 2009, 02:24:30 am
We know there are at least four of them, who flew the Thoths seen in the last cutscene of FS1. They are probably still alive, and probably in active-duty service with them military; they were part of the force that dispatched the Lucifer and therefore saved the damn planet and everyone on it, making them Very Important People.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: shiv on January 03, 2009, 02:43:12 am
Well, it'd be cool if in some post-lucifer sol campaign there'd be Vasudan faction not only Terran ones. It'd make for example INFA more intresting ;) :D
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on January 03, 2009, 02:49:04 am
What do you think happened to the possible Vasudans in Sol? At the end of the Great War, several Thoth fighters managed to survive and reach Earth - and possibly more Vasudans (scientists probably) had already moved into Sol. Although a small population: 100 or so, they might have flourished.

My opinions is that after 14 long years of war, the normal civilians listening to all the hatred of Vasudans would have shunted and possibly killed the Vasudans off because only the soldiers could have made true friendships with them through comradeship of battle.

      It's only 30 years. They'd still be alive . . . I mean, normal civilians might not like them because of the propaganda but they're not going to turn into murderers. The only way normal civies are going to murder a bunch of people is if they get into some big mindless lynch mob but in modern society a competent police force shoudl be able to dispatch such a mob with some tear gas or whatever they're using at the time.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 03, 2009, 02:52:24 am
I don't think you would see much in the way of Vasudans in combat.  Human population in Sol = billions Vasudan = thousands maybe.  They would need to establish a decent breading program where every person would be important.  It would be several generations before combat losses would be acceptable unless there was a looming threat of all life being wiped out. 

Now you might see the Vasudan ships being refitted for piloting by Humans. 
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Narvi on January 03, 2009, 04:52:28 am
I doubt there were enough Vasudans to make a breeding population.

It would really depend on the skillset of the Vasudans present. Since Sol was the human industrial hub, the Vasudans present were probably scientists, engineers and the like, to help in production of new Vasudan/Terran technologies, along with a small escort, as well as the diplomats in the embassy. Besides Sol possibly getting some Vasudan reactor tech, they probably didn't have much effect.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Aardwolf on January 03, 2009, 05:00:10 am
It would really depend on the skillset of the Vasudans present.

You can say that again.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Mobius on January 03, 2009, 05:16:50 am
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Shadows_of_the_Great_War#Old_Enemies
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: admiral_wolf on January 03, 2009, 06:28:52 pm
I've always believed that the 4 Thoth fighters were not the only Vasudans in Sol.  I agree that there is the possibility of Vasudan scientists/technicians/groundstaff/headz samplers etc stationed on Installations and on the ground.  After all, was the shield system production team based at Earth, and we know from the cutscene "Lab" that Vasudans helped us create the system.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Eishtmo on January 03, 2009, 06:37:30 pm
Well, it'd be cool if in some post-lucifer sol campaign there'd be Vasudan faction not only Terran ones. It'd make for example INFA more intresting ;) :D

I roughly plotted one, actually.  Called it Titan's Call.  Never really got beyond the rough stage, but basically there was JUST enough Vasudans in Sol to build a colony, so they were given Titan, and some people, actually, a LOT of people, didn't much care for it.  By the end of it, the player would be forced to destroy the only operational Orion in Sol.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Mobius on January 03, 2009, 07:05:37 pm
In my SotGW concept the Vasudans preferred to check the Venusian colony out because it reminds Vasuda Prime. Ok, they can't actually land on it...but whatever... :nervous:
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: AlphaOne on January 03, 2009, 07:28:20 pm
Hey didn't one of the briefing's or debriefing's in FS1 said that both Vasudans and Terrans have gathered all available warships in SOL in order to mount an effective defence against the Lucy ???

If' im not mistaken that would mean at least a couple of cruisers perhaps even a destroyer would be based in SOL vasudan ones i mean !

Don't take this for good since i can remember exactly  if they were based in sol or outside SOL in a blockade!
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 03, 2009, 09:33:14 pm
In Sol is in Sol, so they were in the Sol system.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 03, 2009, 11:42:41 pm
Hey didn't one of the briefing's or debriefing's in FS1 said that both Vasudans and Terrans have gathered all available warships in SOL in order to mount an effective defence against the Lucy ???

No.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Snail on January 04, 2009, 07:13:42 am
Hey didn't one of the briefing's or debriefing's in FS1 said that both Vasudans and Terrans have gathered all available warships in SOL in order to mount an effective defence against the Lucy ???

If' im not mistaken that would mean at least a couple of cruisers perhaps even a destroyer would be based in SOL vasudan ones i mean !

Don't take this for good since i can remember exactly  if they were based in sol or outside SOL in a blockade!
I'm pretty sure they said the opposite !
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: karajorma on January 05, 2009, 07:10:16 am
Wasn't there a plot element of MindGames concerning the Vasudan remnants in Sol?

Yep. It's a major part of the plot line for the mod.

I doubt there were enough Vasudans to make a breeding population.

The popuation you need to maintain a species is much lower than you'd expect. There is significant evidence that the human population was reduced to somewhere between 2000 and 20,000 people by the Toba supervolcano. Which means that a destroyer or two would have a breeding population.

But even that is a high estimate. Every single Californian Condor in the world is a descendant of the 22 birds that were still alive 20 years ago.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Stormkeeper on January 05, 2009, 09:13:36 am
To be absolutely honest, I never really thought about if there were Vasudans on Earth.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Snail on January 05, 2009, 09:17:30 am
To be absolutely honest, I never really thought about if there were Vasudans on Earth.
Then you are not a true FreeSpacer.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Mobius on January 05, 2009, 11:16:35 am
Earth doesn't necessarily mean Sol.

IMHO those Vasudans, despite the Alliance and their encouraging efforts, would suffer the almighty power(:doubt:) of racism...
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Snail on January 05, 2009, 11:39:56 am
My favorite vision of Sol after the isolation is complete anarchy.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Narvi on January 05, 2009, 11:44:04 am
Wasn't there a plot element of MindGames concerning the Vasudan remnants in Sol?

Yep. It's a major part of the plot line for the mod.

I doubt there were enough Vasudans to make a breeding population.

The popuation you need to maintain a species is much lower than you'd expect. There is significant evidence that the human population was reduced to somewhere between 2000 and 20,000 people by the Toba supervolcano. Which means that a destroyer or two would have a breeding population.

But even that is a high estimate. Every single Californian Condor in the world is a descendant of the 22 birds that were still alive 20 years ago.

Still, the Vasudan presence wouldn't be very significant. Even assuming that they allowed the Vasudans to maintain two destroyers in Sol (unlikely, considering the potential security risk, and the reduced force projection, I'm more inclined to think cruisers were allocated there for defense)  and assuming they got their own colony somewhere, that's still less than a hundred thousand Vasudans in Sol. A drop in the bucket amongst the ocean of a few billion humans.

This is fertile ground for fanfiction though. You'd have an interesting logistical problem; do you let them settle on Earth, in their own community? How do you school the young? Are the Vasudan scientists going to spill all of their classified secrets now that they realize they are stranded? How do they integrate, since they are outnumbered by several orders of magnitude? Will they suffer institutionalized racism? How will the Vasudan superiority complex suffer minority status? Lots of fun stuff.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: -Joshua- on January 06, 2009, 01:24:59 pm
But even that is a high estimate. Every single Californian Condor in the world is a descendant of the 22 birds that were still alive 20 years ago.

Yes, but Vesudan' mating habits probably are more alike to that of the Terrans then to that of the Californian Condor.

(Or atleast, I hope so :nervous:)
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Mongoose on January 06, 2009, 02:47:07 pm
I'm feeling a certain image right about now.  ;7
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 06, 2009, 08:32:36 pm
My guess is a mini-GTVA would have developed.  Eventually.

Since there were some Vasudans in Sol, my guess is the initial xenophobia and panic after the collapse would have forced the Vasudans into the outer areas.  Neptune, Pluto, Uranus, etc. since the humans didn't quite want to mingle so freely.

Earth, Mars, and Venus all go independent, then they quickly unify under a federalist government with a large degree of planetary autonomy similar to the United States, Ceres quickly joins since they are scared of the Jovians and Saturnians, who have unified into a semi-fascist government, and the Vasudans are setting up in the outer reaches, mining the Kuiper Belt, coexisting peacefully with the humans there, and they form their own government similar to the United Kingdom in structure and distribution of power, just no hereditary monarchs (Vasudans like Parliaments, and the humans out there probably hate any sort of hereditary leadership, kings, emperors, and nobles so a compromise is struck).  And trade quickly springs up between the Earth-based and the Pluto-based governments once they realize the other exists, and they get along well.  The Jovians and the Saturnians are not amused, and decide take the solar system by force.  War ensues, they are defeated, and the Vasudans and Terrans decide to make the bonds forged in that war even stronger by completely unifying under the banner of the Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance.

And serious problems ensue when the Delta Serpentis-Sol node is opened, since there can be only one Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance.  And the Sol one is set up quite differently than the Beta Aquilae one since it is set up more like the United States where the Beta Aquilae GTVA has more in common with the U.N.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Retsof on January 06, 2009, 08:42:56 pm
Is is just me or does it sound like someone has a campaign in the works?  ;7
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: General Battuta on January 06, 2009, 09:35:27 pm
My guess is a mini-GTVA would have developed.  Eventually.

Since there were some Vasudans in Sol, my guess is the initial xenophobia and panic after the collapse would have forced the Vasudans into the outer areas.  Neptune, Pluto, Uranus, etc. since the humans didn't quite want to mingle so freely.

Earth, Mars, and Venus all go independent, then they quickly unify under a federalist government with a large degree of planetary autonomy similar to the United States, Ceres quickly joins since they are scared of the Jovians and Saturnians, who have unified into a semi-fascist government, and the Vasudans are setting up in the outer reaches, mining the Kuiper Belt, coexisting peacefully with the humans there, and they form their own government similar to the United Kingdom in structure and distribution of power, just no hereditary monarchs (Vasudans like Parliaments, and the humans out there probably hate any sort of hereditary leadership, kings, emperors, and nobles so a compromise is struck).  And trade quickly springs up between the Earth-based and the Pluto-based governments once they realize the other exists, and they get along well.  The Jovians and the Saturnians are not amused, and decide take the solar system by force.  War ensues, they are defeated, and the Vasudans and Terrans decide to make the bonds forged in that war even stronger by completely unifying under the banner of the Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance.

And serious problems ensue when the Delta Serpentis-Sol node is opened, since there can be only one Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance.  And the Sol one is set up quite differently than the Beta Aquilae one since it is set up more like the United States where the Beta Aquilae GTVA has more in common with the U.N.

Have you played Blue Planet? It might interest you.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 06, 2009, 09:45:46 pm
Yeah I played Blue Planet.  Well until it crashed on me as I tried to see what my ship and loadout were when I was flying the Vishnan fighter for the first time.  And then I lost interest due to my short attention span.

@Retsof: No.  I have no idea how to make campaigns for Freespace or Freespace 2.  I have no idea how to FRED or TBL edit.  So it would suck, be poorly done, and have the worst balance ever.  Plus it would never be released with me constantly adding to the backstory and ship selection as my FRED and .tbl knowledge grew.  Besides, something like that would need voice actors for the English-speaking Vasudans with British accents.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: General Battuta on January 06, 2009, 10:44:48 pm
You need to finish Blue Planet.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: eliex on January 07, 2009, 02:48:12 am
Definitely.  ;)

I now wonder how the Vasudans (having a great importance in their culture) might have integrated their culture with the Terrans.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 07, 2009, 08:32:05 am
Hey, Vasudans are more pacifistic than Terrans, right?

Spoiler:
Remember the way the UEFg Renjian responded to the GTD Orestes' demand to power down? Sounds pretty Vasudan if you ask me. ;)
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: General Battuta on January 07, 2009, 08:52:12 am
Never mind this here post!
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 07, 2009, 09:13:37 am
Done. Fix yours too.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: General Battuta on January 07, 2009, 10:09:47 am
Thank you, well-spotted.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 07, 2009, 02:59:17 pm
So I finished up AoA.  I eagerly await WiH and the nasty-ass projectile weapons of the UEF.  If a frigate can do that much damage to a Raynor, the GTVA will have one hell of a hard fight on their hands.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: General Battuta on January 07, 2009, 03:26:33 pm
How much damage did the Renjien do? I've never seen it deal more than few percent.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Stormkeeper on January 07, 2009, 10:55:10 pm
11% on my run.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: eliex on January 08, 2009, 12:00:31 am
14% for me.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 08, 2009, 11:46:15 am
Took it down to 63%.  On Very Easy.  Of course, for some odd reason the Raynor wasn't firing its beams. :confused:
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2009, 12:53:04 pm
Took it down to 63%.  On Very Easy.  Of course, for some odd reason the Raynor wasn't firing its beams. :confused:

That's because you're on Very Easy -- it makes friendly capital ships weak as well as enemies.

The infrequent beam firing might have been due to a SEXP problem or (in-story) due to dissent amongst the Orestes' gunnery crews.

Yeah, playing through the mission on Insane, the Renjian did about 11% damage -- but, on the other hand, it didn't have railguns, which the Karuna types in WiH will. So yes, SpardaSon, I think we can anticipate some awesome stuff from those ships.

Despite what I was saying in the other thread about the two factions being pretty fairly balanced, and the GTVA having a slight edge with the beams, I really love the UEF ships, and I think their gritty missiles-and-railguns feel is really appealing.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: eliex on January 08, 2009, 03:32:45 pm
Despite what I was saying in the other thread about the two factions being pretty fairly balanced, and the GTVA having a slight edge with the beams, I really love the UEF ships, and I think their gritty missiles-and-railguns feel is really appealing.

Also I think that the railgun can easily target large beam turrets (like the Hecate frontal beams) being priority, as well as normal turrets without having the player to fly over to take them out. Especially on broadside battles.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2009, 04:11:25 pm
Beams can do that too, though. It's not like it's an advantage of one or the other.
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Droid803 on January 08, 2009, 05:55:21 pm
I've found that high-damage, high-velocity projectiles are far more effective at disabling subsystems and turrets than a direct-fire beam, purely because they generally have a higher rate of fire. (A BGreen fire once every 30 seconds).
Slash beams are quite good at destroying poorly armored turrets, however, and can destroy several in one pass.

At this rate, this thread is going to be split, and this part moved and fused with the Railgun vs. Beam discussion in the BP forum. (yes, there's already a thread for this).
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 09, 2009, 10:55:06 am
You missed a "]" in "[quote author=General Battuta link=topic=60172.msg1188289#msg1188289 date=1231440784", eliex. Fix it. :sigh:
Title: Re: The Vasudans of Sol
Post by: eliex on January 11, 2009, 01:37:00 am
Thanks. It's fixed.  :)