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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Scotty on July 07, 2009, 12:17:49 am

Title: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on July 07, 2009, 12:17:49 am
Someone on the CBT forums found a very interesting video on YouTube earlier today.  So far, we've managed to fill almost two pages of replies with speculation.

Anyway, feel free to discuss:

I hope to God this is what I think it is. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-ufo-stkk)
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: General Battuta on July 07, 2009, 12:30:54 am
And I

JIZZED

IN

MY PANTS

This better be what it looks like.

EDIT: THERE ARE FEDERATED SUNS BANNERS NEW MECHWARRIOR GAME CONFIRMED

AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: Scotty on July 07, 2009, 12:43:12 am
The entire *ahem* discussion can be found here. (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,54091.0.html)

EDIT:  Oh, and, sigged (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/Smileys/alive/afro.gif)
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 07, 2009, 03:22:32 am
FAFNIR LEG

WOLF'S DRAGOONS OR KELL HOUNDS COLORS


EDIT: Alessia wishes me to inform you that "THERE ARE NO FAFNIRS IN AVALON CITY"
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: Rick James on July 07, 2009, 01:33:10 pm
Sweet Zombie JESUS, how the hell did I miss this?

But I want to see moar footage.

EDIT: Heyyo! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6V2ysIq180)
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 07, 2009, 01:51:39 pm
Please, please for the love of God tell me this won't be console-only.
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: The E on July 07, 2009, 01:59:31 pm
<keanu>Woah.</keanu>
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 07, 2009, 04:44:29 pm
EDIT: Heyyo! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6V2ysIq180)

That's a Warhammer.

Dear god, that's a real WHM-6.

That literally just brought a tear to my eye.
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: General Battuta on July 07, 2009, 04:55:02 pm
Really?

Unseen? Reseen?
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 07, 2009, 05:08:39 pm
Unseen?

WHM-6, Unseen.

The only reasonable alternative is a RFL-3, honestly, which is the Unseen Rifleman.
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: Scotty on July 07, 2009, 05:11:24 pm
Unseen no longer (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,53514.0.html) :cool:

Quote from: Rick James
Sweet Zombie JESUS, how the hell did I miss this?

Because it had only been up for about 10 hours when I posted it.
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: Scotty on July 07, 2009, 05:22:11 pm
Just found a third!

Heck yes! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9TGGhMXyiE&feature=channel)
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: Angelus on July 07, 2009, 05:49:58 pm
Please God, let it be Mechwarrior 5 ( MW3 style, not MW4!!! ), not a sequel to the X-Box crappiness known as Mechassault!
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: Scotty on July 07, 2009, 05:57:28 pm
G4 picked up on this, as has IGN.

IGN is being dickish (http://pc.ign.com/articles/100/1001586p1.html) (look at update #2)
(Can't find the darn link to the G4 article)
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: The E on July 07, 2009, 05:59:34 pm
Curse you, IGN, Cuuuuurse youuuu!
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 07, 2009, 06:19:51 pm
Heck yes! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9TGGhMXyiE&feature=channel)

wtf is that? Jenner?
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: The E on July 07, 2009, 06:24:51 pm
Looks very much like a Jenner IIC, IMHO.
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: Scotty on July 07, 2009, 06:39:05 pm
It sure looks like a Jenner.  A little stylized perhaps, but still looks like it.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 07, 2009, 06:40:19 pm
War of 3039.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on July 07, 2009, 06:45:38 pm
Sweet.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 07, 2009, 06:47:52 pm
Not so sure.  Past games have always been in roughly the "present" in BattleTech terms.  If it follows in that vein, we'll have a Jihad/Dark Age-era game.  Jihad is so much more interesting anyway (I'm pretty sure Nuke would agree with me there :D).  War of 3039 only lasted less than a year, all total.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 07, 2009, 06:48:55 pm
Yes, but on the other hand, the 3039 would be the perfect excuse to, y'know, show off all those formerly Unseen.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 07, 2009, 06:50:13 pm
4th SW would do that even better.  However, I find that setting even less likely than the War of 3039.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: StarSlayer on July 07, 2009, 10:21:29 pm
I'd be stoked to get back into the cockpit of a mech.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mongoose on July 07, 2009, 11:52:21 pm
It's strange to see people getting crazy excited over ten-second clips that are utterly meaningless to me. :p I hope that it is a new MW title for you guys' sake, though.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 07, 2009, 11:54:42 pm
I would be happy if nothing else came of this than Battuta's reaction to the first video :P.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on July 08, 2009, 06:28:18 am
I hope it's the 3039 SW, 'cause i like this era the best. Eversince MW3 i'm hoping for a a game that plays during
3025-3045.
Who's a Victor Davion in comparison to his father Hanse, or Katherine Steiner in comparison to Katerina, her grandmother? The only exception here is house Liao, Maximilian the choleric who has such a hate toward house Davion, his doughter Romano, that makes look Emperor Cartagia from B5 like a boyscout.
And last but not least Sun Tzu, who is a cold, cunning, guileful, smart badass.
Not that i think Victor and Co. aren't interessting, it's just that i like the "early" years better.

Also the mechs from this era are almost cooler then later designs, the Marauder for instance, one of my favorites since i've read the Grey Death Trilogy.

The Battletech universe has a lot to offer story wise, i hope that the DEVs of that game ( if it is a game... )
don't **** it up and release a FPS style shooter like M$ did with MW4. [/end rant]
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: JGZinv on July 08, 2009, 06:32:47 am
Hmm well there were two things synonymous with pilot back in the day for the Tach community,
you either flew a fighter, or you hit the dirt in a clan's mech division. Much fiction integrated the two.

Hopefully they'll do it justice - blood and iron shall rise again.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on July 08, 2009, 03:24:34 pm
I want it to have the MW version of FRED. :nervous:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 08, 2009, 03:32:05 pm
You know, technically, MW4 had a mission editor....
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: asyikarea51 on July 08, 2009, 03:39:01 pm
Hard to find anything as "easy-for-the-n00bs-when-making-basic-things" as FRED... :nervous:

The only thing that put me off with one of the videos is that car... if these are really MW videos then what's a present-day Lexus (or was it?) concept doing in 3030 :wtf: :lol:

but being a quick teaser/demonstrator/whatever I wouldn't mind it that much...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 08, 2009, 03:40:23 pm
I didn't think MW4 was all that bad. Wasn't awesome but it was ok. I can remember refusing to get it untill it dropped beflow £20 lol
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 08, 2009, 03:43:23 pm
First, I doubt very much that this takes place around 3030.  I'm still leaning towards 3130 or so.  Second, you never know what kind of cars.  Hell, it could be some collector's shiny antique that his family has kept around since the early 2000's.

Then again, it could just be an anacronistic slip.  Like the humvees in MW4 :ick:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: asyikarea51 on July 08, 2009, 04:14:44 pm
:lol:

Well for these kinds of things, my thinking leans more towards "out-of-universe" rather than "in-universe"...

I can just accept it as maybe they just needed some assets fast in order to make a presentable video to whoever the audience may be (i.e. plain-ol' corporates or the millions of internet surfers out there or whoever else)...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on July 08, 2009, 04:33:32 pm
"Waiting for rendevouz coordinates."

"Roger that, Lance Leader, transferring now."

"We have arrived and are ready to deploy."

I want that guy to come back.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Nyarly on July 08, 2009, 11:54:25 pm
LONG HAVE WE WAITED FOR THIS GLORIOUS DAY!!!

Awesome news!  I can't wait for the trailer (to be released at midnight).

A released picture from the game has Devlin Stone's distinct Atlas fighting what appears to be a Reseen Warhammer. So yep, the setting is the Jihad. Though the War of 3039 was something I also guessed at, NGTM-1R. 

I wonder if the Unseen will make an appearance...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Rick James on July 09, 2009, 12:02:40 am
Juuuust two more hours...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 09, 2009, 12:29:12 am
T-90 minutes to drop.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Rick James on July 09, 2009, 02:03:53 am
Oh, mercy... (http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/18954/mech-warrior-project/videos/mechwarrior_trl_phoenix_70709.html)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 09, 2009, 02:26:07 am
You missed (http://pc.ign.com/articles/100/1002275p1.html) the other (http://pc.ign.com/articles/100/1002164p1.html) three. (http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/18954/mech-warrior-project/videos/mechwarrior_spc_rewindtheaterr_070809.html)
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: mxlm on July 09, 2009, 06:28:30 am
Please God, let it be Mechwarrior 5 ( MW3 style, not MW4!!! ),

Heresy, I know, but I enjoyed MW4: Mercs more than MW3. Now, I did like 3 more than 4 and Black Knight
Title: Re: Interesting YouTube video
Post by: Polpolion on July 09, 2009, 11:38:33 am
Please God, let it be Mechwarrior 5 ( MW3 style, not MW4!!! ),

Heresy, I know, but I enjoyed MW4: Mercs more than MW3. Now, I did like 3 more than 4 and Black Knight

I enjoyed MW4 Mercs more than Vengeance, but I like the way Vengeance used hostile mechs more. I haven't played 3 in forever.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: JCDNWarrior on July 09, 2009, 12:00:39 pm
Ahh, Mech Assault for Xbox made me love the MechWarrior series, making me get MW4 back then. Amazing amazing games, and it's great to see there will be another one.

Sometimes you just have to have colossal walking tanks to fully enjoy your daily rampage.

- JC

EDIT: Well, it's clearly Mech Warrior alright! Link -> http://pc.ign.com/articles/100/1002275p1.html
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 09, 2009, 12:07:37 pm
If you liked MW4 you've really got to try MW3 and MW2. They were far superior and really sucked you into the universe.

Not that MW4 wasn't great, spent a lot of time on it, but the mechs in it were unimpressive and tiny-feeling compared to those in MW3 and 2.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on July 09, 2009, 12:15:19 pm
The year is 3015!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOO!!!!!!!


They only missed it by 10 years ( i wished for something around 3025), but if the game is really that cool, and at least that simulation-ish like MW3, i...in my infinite wisdom...will forgive them. :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 09, 2009, 12:19:16 pm
Well, as long as it has a Marauder, I'm happy.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on July 09, 2009, 12:22:05 pm
Well, as long as it has a Marauder, I'm happy.

You Sir, have taste!
The Marauder is a kickass machine.
Ever played GBL for MW2?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 09, 2009, 12:37:16 pm
I have to say that the only MW game I ever played on PC was MW4 Vengeance and Mercs. I have been playing the tabletop for what seems like an eternity, though, and during all that the Marauder (Especially the D3D Variant, with the Large Laser instead of that crappy AC) was always my favourite 'Mech, both visually and from a gameplay POV.

EDIT: Apparently, MechWarrior 4 will be released for free.... (http://battletech.catalystgamelabs.com/2009/07/09/mechwarrior-to-be-distributed-free-on-battletech-com/)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on July 09, 2009, 05:51:08 pm
EDIT: Apparently, MechWarrior 4 will be released for free.... (http://battletech.catalystgamelabs.com/2009/07/09/mechwarrior-to-be-distributed-free-on-battletech-com/)

Along with expansion packs, too. That's cool; I could never find Black Knight.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Gortef on July 10, 2009, 02:53:06 am
Whoo, this is great news. I came. :pimp::yes::yes::yes:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on July 10, 2009, 06:17:56 am
EDIT: Apparently, MechWarrior 4 will be released for free.... (http://battletech.catalystgamelabs.com/2009/07/09/mechwarrior-to-be-distributed-free-on-battletech-com/)

Along with expansion packs, too. That's cool; I could never find Black Knight.


Black Knight was storywise, by lightyears better then MW4 or MW4 Mercs.
The missions were better but tougher, especially the escort missions.

The blackmarket feature added a lot to the gameplay, since you had to decide "am i going to equipe one Mech with top notch weapons, or should i buy cheaper stuff so that all mechs are, to a degree, equally equipped.

Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: nvsblmnc on July 10, 2009, 01:05:54 pm
I saw this last night on the MekTek homepage.  There is only one permissable reaction:

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!

Now that is how MechWarrior should be done.  And as for the setting - 3015?  It doesn't get much better than that in my opinion.

In case you can't already tell, me very wants.  Especially the Warhammer.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 10, 2009, 02:22:00 pm
This may sound like a dumb question, but what exactly happened in 3015 that was of note?  I'm not a rabid follower of MechWarrior so please indulge me.  My only experience was a brief sojourn into the tabletop game (when I was 6) and two of the novels.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 10, 2009, 02:34:11 pm
Quote
but what exactly happened in 3015 that was of note

Nothing :yes:

There is absolutely NO FRIKKIN WAY for them to mess this up continuity-wise.  It's wonderful.

Other reasons for the timeperiod:  No ClanTech, no LosTech, no OmniMechs, no BattleArmor.  Hell, not even any new 'Mechs.  This is Vintage BattleTech prettied up.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 10, 2009, 04:13:28 pm
So this has no Clans, no LosTech (whatever that is), no armor like Elemental or Longinus suits, and no OmniMechs (whatever those are)?  Just lots of Inner Sphere internecine warfare fought by giant 40-100 ton deathrobots?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: nvsblmnc on July 10, 2009, 04:15:39 pm
Exactly.  No hyper-assault-x-pulse-rotary-heavyppc toting Daishi's here by the looks of things.

Back to basics with style.

And as for Omnimechs => http://www.sarna.net/wiki/OmniMech
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 10, 2009, 04:16:32 pm
So this has no Clans, no LosTech (whatever that is), no armor like Elemental or Longinus suits, and no OmniMechs (whatever those are)?  Just lots of Inner Sphere internecine warfare fought by giant 40-100 ton deathrobots?

Most front-line Clan 'mechs are Omnis. An OmniMech is just a 'Mech that uses pod-mounted weapons systems; they can be swapped out and reconfigured in the field.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 10, 2009, 04:39:24 pm
EDIT: Apparently, MechWarrior 4 will be released for free.... (http://battletech.catalystgamelabs.com/2009/07/09/mechwarrior-to-be-distributed-free-on-battletech-com/)

Along with expansion packs, too. That's cool; I could never find Black Knight.


Black Knight was storywise, by lightyears better then MW4 or MW4 Mercs.
The missions were better but tougher, especially the escort missions.

The blackmarket feature added a lot to the gameplay, since you had to decide "am i going to equipe one Mech with top notch weapons, or should i buy cheaper stuff so that all mechs are, to a degree, equally equipped.



sorry dude but Blacknight's storyline was absurd
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 10, 2009, 05:01:50 pm
So this has no Clans, no LosTech (whatever that is), no armor like Elemental or Longinus suits, and no OmniMechs (whatever those are)?  Just lots of Inner Sphere internecine warfare fought by giant 40-100 ton deathrobots?

Most front-line Clan 'mechs are Omnis. An OmniMech is just a 'Mech that uses pod-mounted weapons systems; they can be swapped out and reconfigured in the field.
Thanks.  Still don't know what LosTech is though.  It would also be nice if someone could tell me what the notable Mechs of this era are.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 10, 2009, 05:20:19 pm
In BattleTech's timeline, 3015 is right at the end of the dark ages, where several important pieces of high tech knowledge (like, for example, how to build new Jumpships, or designing new Mechs, or advanced weaponry for the mechs still in use) are lost due to the intense fighting in the so-called Succession Wars.

Notable Mechs of this era are:
The Warhammer (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Warhammer), the Marauder (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marauder), the Atlas (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Atlas_%28BattleMech%29), the Battlemaster (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Battlemaster), the Valkyrie (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Valkyrie), the Jenner (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jenner), the Archer (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Archer), the Rifleman (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rifleman)...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 10, 2009, 05:21:20 pm
sorry dude but Blacknight's storyline was absurd

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with Roanoke here.

I'm pissed we're getting Reseen versions of the old standbys, though...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 10, 2009, 05:47:29 pm
LosTech = anything better than regular laser, Autocannon, or missile.

Quote
Notable Mechs of this era are
*snip*

Don't forget the Urbie! (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Urbanmech) if only for laughs. (For those who don't know, the Urbanmech is regarded as the absolute worst 'Mech in existence.)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 10, 2009, 06:03:48 pm
DO NOT MOCK THE URBANMECH.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 10, 2009, 06:06:35 pm
Fine, Sheesh.  I'll save my mocks for the Jagermech ;).
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 10, 2009, 06:33:14 pm
INNER SPHERE ROOOOOOOLZ!


I miss my cougar :(
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 10, 2009, 07:00:19 pm
So this has no Clans, no LosTech (whatever that is), no armor like Elemental or Longinus suits, and no OmniMechs (whatever those are)?  Just lots of Inner Sphere internecine warfare fought by giant 40-100 ton deathrobots?

Most front-line Clan 'mechs are Omnis. An OmniMech is just a 'Mech that uses pod-mounted weapons systems; they can be swapped out and reconfigured in the field.
Thanks.  Still don't know what LosTech is though.  It would also be nice if someone could tell me what the notable Mechs of this era are.
LosTech are the experimental X-weapons like the X-Pulse Lasers which had short ranges and long reload times of its type but were extremely powerful.

And no Omnimechs which would means no Mad Cats?
**** that. The Timber Wolf / Mad Cat is far too iconic to be wiped right off the gaming franchise.

The Rifleman, Warhammer, and Marauder is nice just because of their appearance (And the fact they're used in Macross as well :P) but I'd rater take the Timber Wolf or any of its upgrades over any of them.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 10, 2009, 07:01:38 pm
Actually, even Gauss rifles were LosTech at one point. So were ER PPCs, regular pulse lasers, all sorts of stuff.

It's not that the Mad Cat/Timber Wolf has been wiped out, it's just that in this time period it hasn't arrived yet.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 10, 2009, 07:03:42 pm
Well, if this game ends up being moddable, it should show up at some point. :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 10, 2009, 07:07:14 pm
If they can pull of the plans they have now, sooner or later it will show up.
One thing to remember about the Mad Cat is that, at the time it was introduced into the BT universe, it was designed to literally wipe the floor with any of the 3020 designs. Introducing it now would remove a great deal of the 'Mechs awesomeness.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 10, 2009, 07:10:35 pm
I don't really care if it couldn't use all the fancy trinkets that made it the rape-Mech of its time, I love the asthetics of it.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 10, 2009, 07:15:34 pm
Well, then the Marauder or Catapult would be the Mech for you.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 10, 2009, 07:22:37 pm
I don't really care if it couldn't use all the fancy trinkets that made it the rape-Mech of its time, I love the asthetics of it.

Marauder.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 10, 2009, 07:23:37 pm
It was never as good as the Stormcrow on a per-ton basis.

Yeah, I went there! (I've heard a lot of very convincing arguments as to why the Stormcrow/Ryoken is the best per-ton/per-BV Omni out there.)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 10, 2009, 07:31:14 pm
Which ignores, of course, the Omni's chief ability to be reconfigured... :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 10, 2009, 07:31:26 pm
Well, then the Marauder or Catapult would be the Mech for you.
Just the Marauder, canopy + legs + missile racks don't cut it for me.
The Marauder Mk. II on that MW4 Mech addon was a beauty. :D
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 10, 2009, 07:39:01 pm
I believe you're referring to the Mad Cat Mk II (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mad_Cat_Mk_II). Or were you referring to this monster (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marauder_II)? Unless some Fans made an addon, since at the time of MW4's release the Marauder was still Unseen.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on July 10, 2009, 07:41:57 pm
I believe you're referring to the Mad Cat Mk II (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mad_Cat_Mk_II). Unless some Fans made an addon, since at the time of MW4's release the Marauder was still Unseen.

Man, I hated the Mad Cat Mk II's weapon placements in MW4.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 10, 2009, 07:43:03 pm
No, I'm not referring to the Mad Cat Mk. II, there's an addon for MW4 that adds about 30+ mechs, the Marauder and Marauder Mk. II are two of them.
Though the Mad Cat Mk. II is the most appealing design of all in my book.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 10, 2009, 07:44:21 pm
Huh. I'll be sure to look for it once they get around to put MW4 up for download.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 10, 2009, 07:47:03 pm
It's called what, MekTek I think?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 10, 2009, 08:27:16 pm
Yep, although there was still a "Reseen" image for the MAD.  Just because the original image was still in Unseen limbo doesn't mean the Project Phoenix visual "upgrade" version disappeared.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Sarafan on July 10, 2009, 08:44:36 pm
No love for the Thunderbolt? :blah: Marauders are boring.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 10, 2009, 08:51:45 pm
I have a problem with the human-shaped Mechs / Mechs that look like Gears. :doubt:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: StarSlayer on July 10, 2009, 10:40:38 pm
hmm I take it these mechs are among the originals franchise wise?  The Marauder, Warhammer and Rifleman look pretty similar to the equipment in Macross.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 10, 2009, 10:56:56 pm
I did sort of mention that already. :P
The Warhammer is the Tomahawk Mk. IV, the Rifleman is the Defender Mk. X, and the Marauder is the Zentradi Glaug.
Actually now that I see it the Archer is the Spartan Mk. II.

And the differences between the two of each are almost non-existant, they're as miniscule as an extra antennae, like the Warhammer to the Tomahawk, one has an antennae removed, and that's it.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: StarSlayer on July 10, 2009, 11:21:49 pm
Woops I somehow managed to miss a couple pages.  I must admit i'm pretty stoked to take these babies out for a stroll.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mad Bomber on July 11, 2009, 02:01:39 am
YEARR! I have spent most of today flailing about gleefully after watching that trailer.

I've also spent a bit of time thinking about what mechs are likely to show up in the initial release of the game, given that it's mainly a Davion/Kurita conflict, and it occurs before any new Mech designs have been created (with the sole exceptions of the Merlin and the Dragoons' Marauder-II).

The following have been confirmed:
* Jenner (35T Kurita)
* Unseen Rifleman (60T Davion)
* Unseen Warhammer (70T IS)
* Atlas (100T IS)

These are the ones I am guessing will show up in addition to those, at a minimum.
* Either the Stinger or the Wasp (20T IS)
* At least one of: Commando (25T Steiner), Javelin (30T Davion), Valkyrie (30T Davion), Urbanmech (30T IS)
* Phoenix Hawk (45T IS)
* Centurion (50T Davion) and/or Hunchback (50T IS)
* Shadow Hawk (55T D/K) (Griffin/Wolverine are also possible but neither was quite as prominent in that part of space)
* Dragon (60T Kurita) (no Drac unit worth its salt would be without a heaping helping of these)
* Catapult (65T K/L) (it's been fairly prominent in many games, far moreso than the other 65-tonners)
* Marauder (75T IS)
* either the Awesome or Victor (80T IS)
* BattleMaster (85T IS)


Okay, I've gone on enough. Time to get back to drooling.

Now where's a drool smiley when you need one? :D
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 11, 2009, 02:18:37 am
Video Warhammer is Reseen. :(
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Ashrak on July 11, 2009, 07:20:47 am
donno if its been posted yet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl4eI3htAuA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guru3d.com%2Fnews%2Fmechwarrior-5-2009-debut-gameplay-trailer%2F&feature=player_embedded

Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 11, 2009, 08:27:48 am
Yeah, the Warhammer is nice.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 11, 2009, 08:54:33 am
Dunno if it's been mention (didn't bother reading previos pages >_< ) but living legends crysis mod look spromising too :yes:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 11, 2009, 09:42:55 am
I'm not getting a supercomputer just to play a mod. :doubt:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 11, 2009, 10:51:46 am
Nothing super needed Pfft.. anything in the last two years spec-wise with low res and average detail can run Crisis like walk in the park.......
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on July 11, 2009, 10:57:45 am
Yeah, I honestly don't know why people equate Crysis to "Jesus **** I need a 30,000 dollar computer to run this" so much. It runs fine on my year old budget system.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 11, 2009, 12:03:16 pm
last two years spec-wise with low res and average detail
Meaning the year it was released and still not to the game's full potential.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 11, 2009, 12:19:15 pm
So what, you wanna run anything new to it's full potential at a cut down price, you build a time machine and buy one from 2015 then bring it back. I'm not going to debate technological obsolesence at the point at release. It's a fact of life......

Still, back on topic.......... Drone, influenced by GRAW? Welcome gameplay feature if at all present or simply novelty?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 11, 2009, 12:27:51 pm
Welcome feature.  Consensus on CBT forums is that it's basically the fluffed sensors that no-one ever has a use for in-game.

EDIT:  I forgot to explain why.

Now the game actually has some semblance of stealth instead of it being TurretTech.  You don't get to just press button, shoot bad guy.  You actually need to use teamwork and stuff like the drones to find them first.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 11, 2009, 12:38:05 pm
Cool, thermal imaging been improved? Last time i used it was in MW2 Mercenaries :lol:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Sarafan on July 11, 2009, 02:16:18 pm
YEARR! I have spent most of today flailing about gleefully after watching that trailer.

I've also spent a bit of time thinking about what mechs are likely to show up in the initial release of the game, given that it's mainly a Davion/Kurita conflict, and it occurs before any new Mech designs have been created (with the sole exceptions of the Merlin and the Dragoons' Marauder-II).

The following have been confirmed:
* Jenner (35T Kurita)
* Unseen Rifleman (60T Davion)
* Unseen Warhammer (70T IS)
* Atlas (100T IS)

Where did see the Rifleman being confirmed? There's only 3 mechs in the trailer.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Wanderer on July 11, 2009, 02:31:32 pm
Hmm.. Events placed in 3015... Which should mean that no lostech what so ever is available and even ComStar is still hiding their lostech stuff. Twenty or so years before first few lostech stuffs start to be rediscovered/available (from what i quickly checked from the web).

Wonder how strict customization rules they have used in the game...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mad Bomber on July 11, 2009, 02:36:26 pm
Video Warhammer is Reseen. :(

Er, no.

The one in the video is Unseen -- maybe a little redesigned in the same vein as the Jenner (which actually seems to have received a more drastic makeover IMO) or, say, the visual changes that happened to the Loki and Thor from game to game (compare MechCommander to MW3 to MW4). But it's still recognizably the Unseen Warhammer at its core.

The main reason I say this is because the cockpit juts out the front, old-school style, and is square rather than triangular. And the torso guns are in their recessed waistline spots rather than being the Reseen's armpit guns.


Where did see the Rifleman being confirmed? There's only 3 mechs in the trailer.

Weisman mentioned it in the IGN interview.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Starman01 on July 11, 2009, 03:16:59 pm
 :eek2:

Oh man, I was never so thrilled after a game announcement. I've waited and hoped so long for a new mechwarrior game, with great graphic (IMO MW3 looked much more realistic than the comicstyle in MW4).

But the video seen cannot be the real ingame graphic, it would kill any PC (just take a look of the smashed building structure ). But if the graphic will only be half as good it will be ****ING AWESOME  :D

It's a little sad that I will not seen my favourite clan mechs (since I like their shape and asthetic so much, especially Timber Wolf and Daishi)
But actually, I think the timeline is really perfect, since it has that nostalgic flare of good old battlemechs that I know from the books.

Now I just hope they correct the autocannon back to the way it was in MW3 (and the books), where the canon always fires a salvo and not just a single shot like in MW4

For this game, I would even buy a new PC :)   'nough said, now I go back and watch that trailer over and over again
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 11, 2009, 03:32:13 pm
It's a little sad that I will not seen my favourite clan mechs (since I like their shape and asthetic so much, especially Timber Wolf and Daishi)
I'm not alone! :D
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Starman01 on July 11, 2009, 03:41:32 pm
You were never. MW-Fans are all a big family :)

Just watched the video a few time in full screen, though only the 320x variant, and there is still so much detail. Now I could also see there is standing "ingame footage"  :eek2:  If there is really that much detail, let's hope the area can be walked for free, and that it won't become one of the silly console shooters agains.

Everytime I watch it, I see another small amazing detail, some already pointed out in the interview. The airfighters cruising by, the mech details and even the funny hula hula doll shaking in the warhammer cockpit  :lol:

Not to mention that great core breach of the reactor

Only thing that wonders me is the speed of the escape capsule, it's like about 1000 mph (just a estimation from height and speed), no human would survive that I think. But hey, I think I can forgive them :)

(Sorry, I'm just so amazed, I can't hold on to it)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: mxlm on July 11, 2009, 03:56:59 pm
Not to mention that great core breach of the reactor

That's the worst ejection system of all time.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Starman01 on July 11, 2009, 04:16:53 pm
Not to mention that great core breach of the reactor

That's the worst ejection system of all time.

Yeah, it's quite stupid. It's supposed to bring you away from the exploding reactor, and that here just shoots you right above it. Happy landing :D (It's a matter of real life logic or ingame coolness. So rather give the player a look on the great explosion than make a logical ejection system that refuse you the view :) )


Btw, here is the download for the highres video for free, so you don't have to become a paying IGN-Member to watch it :D  It comes with 118 MB and can be viewed with the vlc-player. Enjoy (download button under the picture)

http://ve3d.ign.com/videos/play/55193/PC/MechWarrior/Trailer/MechWarrior-2009-Debut-Gameplay-Trailer/Flash-Video
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Wanderer on July 11, 2009, 04:44:32 pm
Well.. Mechs aren't supposed to blow up in that manner if i recall correctly though it sure looks pretty.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Rick James on July 11, 2009, 07:34:31 pm
Well.. Mechs aren't supposed to blow up in that manner if i recall correctly though it sure looks pretty.

'Mechs don't normally blow up in that manner unless their engine (read: fusion core) takes a direct hit, resulting from massive internal damage. The result is a mini-nuke explosion that has a handy (usually) side effect of destroying everything in the blast radius.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 11, 2009, 07:44:45 pm
No, no, that's a myth produced by the videogames (and oddly, I believe, some of the novels.) Fusion reactors really shouldn't go critical like that, and in the board game there's absolutely no way to get a 'mech to do that. If the fusion reactor takes a lot of direct damage, it simply doesn't work any more.

The only way to render a 'Mech totally unsalvageable is to completely destroy all the internals in the center torso with an ammo explosion or artillery saturation attack. And that just represents the fusion engine getting wrecked.

Exactly how Victor Davion managed to get his Wolfhound to blow up in the rift on Twycross is a matter of continued exasperation, but it's possibly just the Victor Effect: fiat fiat fiat!
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 11, 2009, 07:55:16 pm
Bad Battuta. That was Kai Allard-Liao. And it's called the Stackpole maneuver.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 11, 2009, 07:57:10 pm
Oh, hush. One SuperFriend blends into another. It's hard to tell all the outwardly confident sons of nobility with inward concerns about living up to their roles apart.

But to quote one of the current Battletech rules writers regarding the issue of engine explanations (there are rules for them in TacOps):

Quote from: Cray from classicbattletech.com
BT 2nd edition, BT 3rd edition and MaxTech both took pains to say "fusion engines don't explode," which is in good agreement with the real world physics...but then novelists went ahead and made them explode anyway. So, I don't want anyone using engine explosion rules to think the explosions are probable or plausible, or actually involve anything like a real nuclear explosion.

My write-up in Tech Manual is a detailed, convenient way of getting the point across, and I'd like to think it carries the torch for all the other rule books and BT fluff that "fusion engines don't explode", too.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Sarafan on July 11, 2009, 07:58:42 pm
No, no, that's a myth produced by the videogames (and oddly, I believe, some of the novels.) Fusion reactors really shouldn't go critical like that, and in the board game there's absolutely no way to get a 'mech to do that. If the fusion reactor takes a lot of direct damage, it simply doesn't work any more.

The only way to render a 'Mech totally unsalvageable is to completely destroy all the internals in the center torso with an ammo explosion or artillery saturation attack. And that just represents the fusion engine getting wrecked.

Exactly how Victor Davion managed to get his Wolfhound to blow up in the rift on Twycross is a matter of continued exasperation, but it's possibly just the Victor Effect: fiat fiat fiat!

I assume you have never heard of a Stackpole?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 11, 2009, 08:00:11 pm
Yes, yes, I know all about the Stackpole.

Same way a VicStar can be taken down by a bunch of snubfighters with proton torpedoes. That was a sad, sad day.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 11, 2009, 08:03:14 pm
That was Kai, it was a Hachetman, and he apparently rigged it to explode in a way it was never intended to work.

He also probably should have been charged with violation of the Ares Conventions, except the Clans aren't a signatory.

Which in turn leaves one wondering how close someone was to pushing the button during the Clan Invasion since we know the Successor States have stockpiles of WMDs.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 11, 2009, 08:21:03 pm
I refer you to my earlier comment about Superfriends.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 11, 2009, 09:24:28 pm
Quote
Same way a VicStar can be taken down by a bunch of snubfighters with proton torpedoes. That was a sad, sad day.

That, at least, is theoretically plausible in the paper-thin excuse for physics in Star Wars.  Just because Stackpole wrote it doesn't mean that it goes against canon  :lol:.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 11, 2009, 09:33:37 pm
Quote
Same way a VicStar can be taken down by a bunch of snubfighters with proton torpedoes. That was a sad, sad day.

That, at least, is theoretically plausible in the paper-thin excuse for physics in Star Wars.  Just because Stackpole wrote it doesn't mean that it goes against canon  :lol:.

Surprisingly enough, the X-Wing games suggest it's reasonable.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 11, 2009, 09:55:42 pm
Speaking of which, Battuta, have you actually read the novel the "sad day" takes place in? [/genuinely curious]
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 11, 2009, 10:10:35 pm
Yeah, I read 'The Bacta War'. It was pretty good all in all, though Isard really sputtered out as a villain.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 11, 2009, 10:29:50 pm
You need to read Isard's Revenge then. ;)

It's after the Wraith Squadron bit Allston subs for Stackpole on.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 11, 2009, 10:30:39 pm
I read it. It was pretty good. Still doesn't make up for that odd decision to abandon Coruscant.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 11, 2009, 10:33:23 pm
Fomenting dissent on Coruscant because the Krytos virus only killed aliens.  She contaminated the ice cap reservoirs with Krytos and waited for it to all come together.  'Course, the thing with the mirrors didn't help matters any, from her perspective.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 11, 2009, 10:35:26 pm
I understood all that.

It was just a really, really dumb plan. Worse, from a dramatic standpoint, it was a 'soft' plan with consequences that by necessity mostly occur off-screen. It fizzled out without ever really having a shot at working.

Not to mention she went crazy. Villains shouldn't do that, it ruins their credibility.

She should've been given as grand a death as Thrawn.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 11, 2009, 10:38:31 pm
But Ysanne Isard isn't Thrawn.  The only person who should have as grand a death as Thrawn is Thrawn.  No other villain matches his level of strategic and tactical genius, plus his ability to divine winning tactics from random pieces of art is also pure win.  Plus he was one of the few Imperial leaders who wasn't completely bat**** mad.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 11, 2009, 10:40:36 pm
Isard had her own strengths. What I mean by 'as grand a death' is one as fitting to her stature as a villain - which was really pretty decent.

Timothy Zahn and Mike Stackpole are good friends, and Zahn (the only one I've spent a lot of time with) is really friendly. I could ask him his opinion of his friend's creation Isard if you want.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 11, 2009, 10:42:10 pm
Yeah, proton torpedo to the face does seem to be letting her off pretty easily.

I hear that gutshots are really painful though.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 12, 2009, 01:15:37 am
Damnation and hellfire.

I've realized I no longer have my MW4 soundtracks, and since BattleTech Mod Productions went down, there's nowhere offering them for download. :(
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on July 12, 2009, 02:00:05 am
Hmf, I had never really been a BT fan because I don't use Joysticks and MW is impossible to play without one, but having read up on that wiki that got posted earlier I learned I proceeded from a false assumption based on my MechCommander experience.  I always assumed that the Inner Sphere forces were the de facto "good guys" in the BT universe, with the Clans being some "faceless" oppressor force killing to kill or sommat.  Now I find out that from a perspective of the survival and improvement of Humanity, the gods damned Clan is the good guys.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 12, 2009, 02:16:38 am
Which is crazy talk, mind you.

So's the thing about joysticks, too, of course...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on July 12, 2009, 02:37:02 am
Quote from: General Battuta
[Implying that the X-wing novels aren't perfect]

HERESY!
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Starman01 on July 12, 2009, 03:07:31 am
Hmf, I had never really been a BT fan because I don't use Joysticks and MW is impossible to play without one, but having read up on that wiki that got posted earlier I learned I proceeded from a false assumption based on my MechCommander experience.  I always assumed that the Inner Sphere forces were the de facto "good guys" in the BT universe, with the Clans being some "faceless" oppressor force killing to kill or sommat.  Now I find out that from a perspective of the survival and improvement of Humanity, the gods damned Clan is the good guys.

Not really :)  Technically all the inner sphere goverments are not that good, especially Liao and later on Steiner after seperation, but the clans are a little more bad. Though their intention is to stop the wars and reunite the inner sphere, they have a perveted sociality with all the cloning and class system and even the sort of slavery when taking prisoners.

As for me, I always sympathize with Victor :)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: mxlm on July 12, 2009, 05:48:46 am
No, no, that's a myth produced by the videogames (and oddly, I believe, some of the novels.) Fusion reactors really shouldn't go critical like that, and in the board game there's absolutely no way to get a 'mech to do that. If the fusion reactor takes a lot of direct damage, it simply doesn't work any more.

My copy of the original Maximum Tech claims otherwise. You lying liar who lies. I mean, yes, it says 'this is physically impossible,' but then it says, 'Here are the rules for it anyway'

Quote
It's a matter of real life logic or ingame coolness. So rather give the player a look on the great explosion than make a logical ejection system that refuse you the view

I suspect that was their view, but in fact that's a false binary choice. They might, for example, have had the sequence go awry.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 12, 2009, 06:24:34 am
My copy of the original Maximum Tech claims otherwise. You lying liar who lies. I mean, yes, it says 'this is physically impossible,' but then it says, 'Here are the rules for it anyway'

Maximum Tech is explicitly "this is bat**** crazy and we're not having any of that crap in our canonicity or games, but you idiots insisted", otherwise referred to as "Level 3 rules".

The only incident that really played it up in the novels was Kai's Hatchetman. You see a couple of other catastrophic containment failures, but they're not nearly as impressive as this, or MechWarrior 4's (which was really the first game to do them). Mostly they just make a fried mess out of the upper body of the 'Mech that bought it and aren't good for any collateral damage.

Hell, you get more collateral damage mileage out of ammo explosions in most novels. :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Wanderer on July 12, 2009, 07:08:41 am
Hmf, I had never really been a BT fan because I don't use Joysticks and MW is impossible to play without one, but having read up on that wiki that got posted earlier I learned I proceeded from a false assumption based on my MechCommander experience.  I always assumed that the Inner Sphere forces were the de facto "good guys" in the BT universe, with the Clans being some "faceless" oppressor force killing to kill or sommat.  Now I find out that from a perspective of the survival and improvement of Humanity, the gods damned Clan is the good guys.

Not really :)  Technically all the inner sphere goverments are not that good, especially Liao and later on Steiner after seperation, but the clans are a little more bad. Though their intention is to stop the wars and reunite the inner sphere, they have a perveted sociality with all the cloning and class system and even the sort of slavery when taking prisoners.

As for me, I always sympathize with Victor :)

Anything is better than ComStar and/or WoB.. though it seemed CS gained some measure of sanity after they broke... I mean organization devoted to prevent and hinder by any covert (and sometimes even overt) means possible the technological development and progress in Inner Sphere is kinda nasty... Though they needed funny story to complement the Jihad storylines.. Just wished they had stopped before the Dork Age thing.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 12, 2009, 09:39:41 am
Hmf, I had never really been a BT fan because I don't use Joysticks and MW is impossible to play without one, but having read up on that wiki that got posted earlier I learned I proceeded from a false assumption based on my MechCommander experience.  I always assumed that the Inner Sphere forces were the de facto "good guys" in the BT universe, with the Clans being some "faceless" oppressor force killing to kill or sommat.  Now I find out that from a perspective of the survival and improvement of Humanity, the gods damned Clan is the good guys.

Huh? I played every single Mechwarrior with mouse and keyboard like any other shooter.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mad Bomber on July 12, 2009, 01:04:44 pm
Damnation and hellfire.

I've realized I no longer have my MW4 soundtracks, and since BattleTech Mod Productions went down, there's nowhere offering them for download. :(

The BT Wiki at sarna.net has them somewhere or other.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Col. Fishguts on July 12, 2009, 05:51:06 pm
There are no good guys in BT... that's why it's so great.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on July 12, 2009, 09:40:05 pm
Hmf, I had never really been a BT fan because I don't use Joysticks and MW is impossible to play without one, but having read up on that wiki that got posted earlier I learned I proceeded from a false assumption based on my MechCommander experience.  I always assumed that the Inner Sphere forces were the de facto "good guys" in the BT universe, with the Clans being some "faceless" oppressor force killing to kill or sommat.  Now I find out that from a perspective of the survival and improvement of Humanity, the gods damned Clan is the good guys.

Huh? I played every single Mechwarrior with mouse and keyboard like any other shooter.

Yup. It actually plays pretty well the way I have it set up: Mouse twists torso, W/S accelerates, A/D turns the mech. Up until then, I had never really laterally twisted at the torso; fighting had just consisted of me running up to the bad guys, then walking back, and so on and so forth until one of us were dead.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 12, 2009, 10:18:19 pm
Every comeptent commander in the history of war is rolling in his(her?) graves at that statement.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on July 12, 2009, 10:40:09 pm
So BT is the poorman's 40k without the dark gods and sadistic elves bringing the pain, only misguided and utterly selfish politicians and tyrants who will do and say anything to increase they're powerbase.  YAY!  Social commentary from a tabletop game.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 12, 2009, 11:28:14 pm
No, Battletech is for the mature and politically savvy rather than gloomy heavy-metal teens.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 13, 2009, 12:48:51 am
And our guys are cooler.

C'mon, they're GIGANTIC WALKING TANKS, spewing death at each other over the battlefields of hundreds of worlds [cackle]!!!!
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mongoose on July 13, 2009, 12:54:04 am
Every comeptent commander in the history of war is rolling in his(her?) graves at that statement.
Hey, it worked perfectly up until World War I. :p
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 13, 2009, 02:49:35 am
:rolleyes: nam. . . So when's 4 getting released for free, i've looked at mektek and no joy.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Cyker on July 13, 2009, 04:18:15 am
Hmf, I had never really been a BT fan because I don't use Joysticks and MW is impossible to play without one, but having read up on that wiki that got posted earlier I learned I proceeded from a false assumption based on my MechCommander experience.  I always assumed that the Inner Sphere forces were the de facto "good guys" in the BT universe, with the Clans being some "faceless" oppressor force killing to kill or sommat.  Now I find out that from a perspective of the survival and improvement of Humanity, the gods damned Clan is the good guys.

Huh? I played every single Mechwarrior with mouse and keyboard like any other shooter.

Yup. It actually plays pretty well the way I have it set up: Mouse twists torso, W/S accelerates, A/D turns the mech. Up until then, I had never really laterally twisted at the torso; fighting had just consisted of me running up to the bad guys, then walking back, and so on and so forth until one of us were dead.

Yeesh, I never could play MW2 or 3 with keyboard and mouse. It'd be liked playing TIE Fighter with a mouse - Possible but... weird. (Although I had a friend who beat my my Interceptor, Defender and Advanced lap times using a mouse... :eek: )

Sidewinder 3D Pro all the way for me; Much faster reactions and can circle-strafe forever :D

Only downside is you loose out on long-range accuracy, but I only piloted heavy-mechs and lower (Assault mechs are just too damned slow!) so most of my tactics involved running round shooting people in the back ;7
(As you can guess I wasn't very good in urban combat...)


Oh, and MW4 wasn't the first to do the mech reactor explosion; MW3 was - Watch the (awesomly fantastic and still unbeaten) intro sequence where the Atlas and Mad Dog shred the Timber Wolf - "He's going critical! Ejectiiiing!" :lol:

Actually, watching the MW5 vid, it almost seems to pay homage to that scene!

I just hope MW5 is more like 3 and 2... MW4 was more like playing Heavy Gear or Shogo; Far too arcady and felt more like you were piloting a Fischer Price My First Plastic Mech than a 75 Tonne war machine! :lol:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 13, 2009, 05:13:06 am
BT is what 40k would look like if it were actually plausible.

...no wait, that's Rifts.

There are different scales of evil. Word of Blake is off there sitting at the far religious-fanaticism possibly-wipe-out-the-human-race end, the Clans are, for the most part, somewhere towards the far end for their social structures, the Capellan Confederation ain't terribly evil but likes to push the limits of acceptable behavior disturbingly often, the Draconis Combine is more backwards in their society but more acceptable in their intentions, the Lyran Alliance is sitting in at the near end for widespread corruption, and the Federated Suns is tucked in with the evils of modern society. The Free Worlds League would be too, except for being in bed with Word of Blake.

The only totally pristine organization is probably the Com Guards, but even for them politics gets in the way a lot.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: mxlm on July 13, 2009, 05:25:09 am
The only totally pristine organization is probably the Com Guards, but even for them politics gets in the way a lot.
After the coup, sure. Prior to Waterly's overthrow they were pretty evil. For the uninitiated, 3015 is well before ComStar became sane. Likewise, since it's well before the WoB exists, FWL am good it am.

Quote
MW4 was more like playing Heavy Gear or Shogo

Er? Heavy Gear or Shogo? HG wasn't anything like Shogo. Actually, Heavy Gear, particularly the second, was much more sim-ish than MW4.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 13, 2009, 05:42:25 am
Heavy Gear 2 was hardly sim-ish, they removed weight, individual components, individual armor, parts compatability, and segment destruction. :doubt:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 13, 2009, 07:18:56 am
After the coup, sure. Prior to Waterly's overthrow they were pretty evil. For the uninitiated, 3015 is well before ComStar became sane. Likewise, since it's well before the WoB exists, FWL am good it am.

3015 is before the Com Guards went public, to boot. Still, this is Comstar under Julian Tiepolo, not Myndo Waterly; it's a largely benevolent organization. Also, it's a dead ringer for the FWL Civil War, so no, actually FWL is currently getting ripped apart between bastards, one of whom happens to have Wolf's Dragoons. (Scratch that theory on the identity of your unit for MW5.)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: StarSlayer on July 13, 2009, 08:39:52 am
And our guys are cooler.

C'mon, they're GIGANTIC WALKING TANKS, spewing death at each other over the battlefields of hundreds of worlds [cackle]!!!!

I generally tend to think comparing "verses" is a bit silly but in terms of violence and destruction 40K is certainly a dead ringer.  40K has plenty of faults but it is all about ridiculously over the top grim dark combat on a galactic scale.  Even an assault mech probably only comes up to a Reaver Titan's greave armor.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 13, 2009, 08:44:20 am
Definitely true. Part of Battletech's appeal is that it still feels grounded in the real world. It has a different aesthetic than 40K.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on July 13, 2009, 08:55:52 am
I meant to the outside observer.

But yeah, once you start comparing Battletech is more "real", it's only about 1000 years from now.  40k is so far in the future you could say that the ocean was purple with green air and not be wrong potentially.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 13, 2009, 11:50:31 am
BT is BT, and 40K is 40K.  BT is a plausible depiction of the 31st Century, and 40K is set in the grimdarkness of the far future where there is only war and mankind is completely ****ed, either by the Imperium, Chaos, the Tyranids, the Necrons, the Dark Eldar, the Eldar, or the Tau.  Comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges.  Sure they both have giant walking death machines, but that's about it.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Wanderer on July 13, 2009, 12:22:46 pm
After the coup, sure. Prior to Waterly's overthrow they were pretty evil. For the uninitiated, 3015 is well before ComStar became sane. Likewise, since it's well before the WoB exists, FWL am good it am.

3015 is before the Com Guards went public, to boot. Still, this is Comstar under Julian Tiepolo, not Myndo Waterly; it's a largely benevolent organization. Also, it's a dead ringer for the FWL Civil War, so no, actually FWL is currently getting ripped apart between bastards, one of whom happens to have Wolf's Dragoons. (Scratch that theory on the identity of your unit for MW5.)

Well.. reading either Sarna (battletech wiki) pages like http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ROM and or what i have heard from the 'brush wars' the CS was not exactly benevolent at any stage... less hostile and more covert perhaps but not benevolent. Also i thought i read some reference saying that CS pretty orchestrated the whole FWL civil war - real benevolence there...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 13, 2009, 01:25:15 pm
The FWL Civil War was going to happen anyways. They might, perhaps, have orchestrated the part where Jaime Wolf's brother got killed, resulting in the Dragoons kicking the ass of any Marik military unit that even looked at them funny on the way to their appointment with Anton Marik's death. ComStar and the Dragoons traditionally do not get along.

ROM was never a nice bunch of people, and honestly never will be (although we do meet at least a few ROM Adepts who seem reasonably well-adjusted folks), that's part of their charm, but Tiepolo as a Primus was much less interventionist then many, and he DID let Hanse Davion make the only significant military gains any of the Succession Wars ever achieved rather than shut things down right away when it became clear that Hanse was actually accomplishing something. He also realized that Myndo was crazy and out of control, so he can't have been terribly bad.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 13, 2009, 02:45:44 pm
I'm glad to see MW still on the go. Like Lucas Arts Point 'n' Clicks, or ID FPS; I've always thought as them as defacto PC games. Like they've been around since the start.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Sarafan on July 13, 2009, 04:08:27 pm

The only totally pristine organization is probably the Com Guards, but even for them politics gets in the way a lot.

If things go unchanged till the Dark Age, I bet Comstar will become the cliche evil corporation.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: mxlm on July 13, 2009, 04:14:29 pm
3015 is before the Com Guards went public, to boot. Still, this is Comstar under Julian Tiepolo, not Myndo Waterly; it's a largely benevolent organization. Also, it's a dead ringer for the FWL Civil War, so no, actually FWL is currently getting ripped apart between bastards, one of whom happens to have Wolf's Dragoons.

I completely forgot about the FWL's civil war and the Com Guards', um, non-public existence.

Quote
Part of Battletech's appeal is that it still feels grounded in the real world.

To an extent, sure. The fact that we have better weaponry--well, better guidance and propulsion systems--now than they do in the year 30wtfever is a little off putting.

Though not nearly so off-putting as the prevalence of melee combat in the year 40k.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 13, 2009, 04:46:18 pm
By vectrons unyielding armpit hair. Comparing these two is nothing to do with the new game. I demand a split!
 
Although titans and broadside battlesuits are freakin cool I loves my vulture mech.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on July 13, 2009, 07:26:13 pm
Yes, I agree, the Vulture is one bad ass mech.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 13, 2009, 10:56:43 pm
It's a Mad Dog...

(trying to restrain myself here)

...freebirth!
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 13, 2009, 11:22:08 pm
No!  It's the Hagetaka! (Japanese for Vulture, name for the 'Mech in the DC.)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 13, 2009, 11:31:30 pm
STRAVAG!

You fight like a sibko reject, quiaff?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 13, 2009, 11:33:06 pm
Neg.  You will fall beneath my talons, wretched freebirth!
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 13, 2009, 11:40:01 pm
That's more like it!

I mean, SEYLA.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Sarafan on July 14, 2009, 12:33:53 am
Neg.  You will fall beneath my talons, wretched freebirth!

Oh, so we got some green pigeon here, you dont like the real clans?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 14, 2009, 12:42:00 am
Insolent swine!  The Jade Falcons shall emerge victorious.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 14, 2009, 02:52:31 am
<meek childish voice> yay steiner. . . .
 
I do love Cybrids more than any other mech faction to be honest.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 14, 2009, 05:54:32 am
Insolent swine!  The Jade Falcons shall emerge victorious.

"Neg. You're gonna be eating dirt in about two minutes." (Why yes, I have been playing MW4Mercs again...)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mad Bomber on July 14, 2009, 09:10:32 am
For me, some of the best quotes in the franchise come from Deadeye.

"Morning! How's it feel to be strapped into a walking nuke reactor at 6 AM? Bet you wish you'd studied harder in school..."

"Today, we get to do some real killing. I love mixing business with pleasure..."

"You can really see the enemy's fear in thermograph."
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on July 14, 2009, 09:48:30 am
yeah, but a bit weak on the armor side.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Vidmaster on July 14, 2009, 12:06:29 pm
so cool. And MechWarrior 4 is going to be released for free  :)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on July 14, 2009, 12:19:14 pm
I do love Cybrids more than any other mech faction to be honest.

Kill//Purge//Eradicate the HUMAN//ANIMALS

The NEXT will be victorious.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 14, 2009, 12:21:13 pm
Cybrids are HERCs. :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 14, 2009, 02:38:54 pm
An offshoot of the hercs, like we're offshoots of MONKIES........... :p
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on July 14, 2009, 03:44:47 pm
HERC vs MECH

Who wins?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 14, 2009, 04:06:04 pm
What the hell is a HERc?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on July 14, 2009, 04:08:14 pm
Think Mech or Gear or anything else like this, only slower and more tank like. Oh and they have shields and plasma cannons.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 14, 2009, 06:01:42 pm
Huh.  I'm going to have to say HERC.  Mechs do have a lot of armor, but I don't think ferro-fibrous armor and endo steel chassis will last long against plasma cannons, and anything short of a bunch of missiles, a Gauss Rifle, a PPC, or an X-Pulse Large Laser probably won't do much to a HERC's energy screens.  Plus HERC's have a fair amount of pretty tough armor themselves I'm guessing.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 14, 2009, 06:08:10 pm
You know how the two Heavy Gauss Cannons on a MW4 Fafnir can waste anything short of a Medium Mech in one shot?
Well, the Plasma Cannon a HERC can mount can do the same to even the 100 ton Assault HERC (Ogre), in one shot. :P

Think Mech or Gear or anything else like this, only slower and more tank like. Oh and they have shields and plasma cannons.
No HERC is anything like a Gear, and only a marginal number of Mechs are like Gears (Human-shaped).
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 14, 2009, 06:18:53 pm
Starsiege? I still have that game somewhere. Was great.


This is a Starsiege HERC
(http://www.g4g.it/phpnews/images/Starsiege_2845_01.jpg)
http://the-junkyard.net/vehicles-ss2845.php   <---more nice pics
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 14, 2009, 06:25:36 pm
I was always fond of Harabecs (mark hamil and founder of the Phoenix tribe) Predator stealth hovertank.

Also i wish i could mount MFACS onto my FS2 fighters :(
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 14, 2009, 06:44:51 pm
Starsiege? I still have that game somewhere. Was great.


This is a Starsiege HERC
(http://www.g4g.it/phpnews/images/Starsiege_2845_01.jpg)
http://the-junkyard.net/vehicles-ss2845.php   <---more nice pics
Well...technically, it's an Earthsiege HERC since it's been in Earthsiege 2 which was before Starsiege. :P

And I wish that 2845 mod didn't ****ing DIE.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 14, 2009, 07:46:19 pm
Huh.  I'm going to have to say HERC.  Mechs do have a lot of armor, but I don't think ferro-fibrous armor and endo steel chassis will last long against plasma cannons, and anything short of a bunch of missiles, a Gauss Rifle, a PPC, or an X-Pulse Large Laser probably won't do much to a HERC's energy screens.  Plus HERC's have a fair amount of pretty tough armor themselves I'm guessing.

PPCs are plasma cannons and mechs soak up plenty of them.

And you forgot ultra autocannons.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 14, 2009, 07:59:43 pm
Particle Projection Cannon is a plasma cannon?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 14, 2009, 08:12:35 pm
They aren't, but Plasma cannons in BT aren't the same.  They mostly raise heat (the rifles) or do some damage.  I can't recall exactly at the moment, because I don't have my Total Warfare book in front of me.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 14, 2009, 08:16:18 pm
wut

Look, there are plasma weapons (the plasma rifle and plasma gun) in Battletech, both of which, ironically, are LESS plasma weapons than the PPC. The plasma rifle fires basically chunks of superheated foam crap, and the plasma gun is sort of a flamethrower deal (I forget its actual name.)

A PPC fires bolts of protons or ionized atoms. It's a plasma cannon. It's been around far longer than those newfangled 'plasma' weapons and it's definitely one itself.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on July 14, 2009, 08:51:11 pm
a bunch of missiles
LRM-20. 20 is a bunch. Many, many mechs mount these, or some quantity of missiles that adds up to greater than 20.
Quote
a Gauss Rifle,
The Mad Cat MKII, the Fafnir, and the Templar all mount two of them, not to mention the myriad others that mount at least one.
Quote
a PPC
The Puma is a 35 ton light mech that mounts two of them. It's not an uncommon weapon.
Quote
or an X-Pulse Large Laser
The Templar mounts two of these, in addition to two light Gauss rifles.

And neither of us mentioned LBX autocannons, much less normal autocannons.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 14, 2009, 09:11:40 pm
Or Heavy Gauss Rifles, or HAGs, or HE-ATMs...but, uh, let's not turn this into a dumb versus argument, because Earthsiege/Starsiege is also pretty cool.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 14, 2009, 09:16:34 pm
Most 'Mechs do not actually mount LRM20s.  A lot of them mount 20 missiles, but not all in one package.  Granted some of them do, like the Mad Dog, but not always.  Even dedicated missile boats like the Catapult do not always mount LRM20s.

Even better, the Fafnir mounts two HEAVY Gauss rifles :D.  Although, once again, the others that mount them rarely mount another very large gun.

The Adder (it is not the Puma :ick:) mounts two in it's Prime configuration only.  Even better, they are ERPPCs.  Anyway, let's not forget the Hollander, which is like an Adder, but it has a Guass rifle :D.

Now that that is over, let me ask one question.  Why are we comparing these?  Has this come down to a "My universe is better than your universe?"

Anyway, for perspective on the pain these babies dish out:  The main gun on an M1A2 Abrams is considered a medium rifle in BattleTech.  It does a grand total of three damage to BattleTech armor.  For comparison, a PPC (non-upgraded) inflicts ten, and a gauss rifle 15.  A heavy gauss does something on the order of 25 at close range.  Put in perspecitve (again) a ton of armor protects against 16 damage for standard armor.  FF is slightly better, at 18 for Inner Sphere and 20 for Clan.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on July 14, 2009, 09:34:45 pm
The Adder (it is not the Puma :ick:)

What's wrong with the IS designations?  :confused:

People seem okay using western designations for eastern military forces, I really don't see a difference here.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on July 14, 2009, 10:16:16 pm
I think they're about evenly matched really.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 14, 2009, 11:27:24 pm
Quote
People seem okay using western designations for eastern military forces, I really don't see a difference here.

I only use those because I do not know/cannot pronounce those names.  The only exception is the MiG-29 Fulcrum, and that is because the Russians pulled the real life equivalent of a RetCon for it to be named that.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Sarafan on July 15, 2009, 12:01:13 am
The Adder (it is not the Puma :ick:)

What's wrong with the IS designations?  :confused:


He's a falcon, isnt it obvious? ;)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 15, 2009, 12:03:42 am
HERC vs MECH

On a basic level, the HERCULEAN is in its development infancy compared to the BattleMech. ELF whips, for example, are considered some of the most devastating HERC weapons available...and are more or less a PPC on piece of string (literally). HERCs are smaller for their weight class for the most part; 75-ton HERCs top out at about ten meters, suggesting a much denser internal arrangement that is more susceptible to damage and more difficult to repair. They also tend to have heavier internal components but lack the overheating issues.

Without really knowing more about armor tolerances on either, a definitive conclusion is impossible.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 15, 2009, 01:03:58 am
The Adder (it is not the Puma :ick:)

What's wrong with the IS designations?  :confused:


He is a falcon, is it not obvious? ;)

Aff.  I have taken the liberty of correcting your vulgar speech.

Quote
75-ton HERCs top out at about ten meters

75-ton BattleMechs never go above 12 meters, and the average is between 9 and 10.

Quote
Without really knowing more about armor tolerances on either

It is fairly easy to figure the tolerance on BattleMech armor.    A gauss slug is rougly melon-sized, masses 125kg, and at apporximately Mach 10 from rest.  I do not know the exact energy transfer, but if that is stopped by only one ton of Clan Ferro-Fibrous armor, someone else could possibly work the mechanics.  The "official" reason is that it is magic.  There is no other way armor like that could realistically exist.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on July 15, 2009, 03:00:16 am
Not true.

You get the right collection of atoms in the right order with the right geometry and you could do it...might blow up afterward but you could do it.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: mxlm on July 15, 2009, 03:27:51 am
You absolutely, positively cannot attempt to apply real-world physics to Battletech. Unless someone wants to explain how a mach 10 projectile's effective range, even against infantry, is less than a kilometer (or was it around 1.5km? Whatever, it's still ludicrous). Or as Cray over on the CBT boards pointed out, for an aerospace fighter to get the kind of acceleration it does, its engine has to produce more energy than the entirety of human civilization in the year 2009.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 15, 2009, 05:26:24 am
HERC vs MECH

On a basic level, the HERCULEAN is in its development infancy compared to the BattleMech. ELF whips, for example, are considered some of the most devastating HERC weapons available...and are more or less a PPC on piece of string (literally). HERCs are smaller for their weight class for the most part; 75-ton HERCs top out at about ten meters, suggesting a much denser internal arrangement that is more susceptible to damage and more difficult to repair. They also tend to have heavier internal components but lack the overheating issues.

Without really knowing more about armor tolerances on either, a definitive conclusion is impossible.
HERCs pretty much have the same weight, Outlaw is 15 tons, the Ogre is 100.
Starsiege? Can't remember, they botched too many things from that game.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 15, 2009, 06:26:00 am
HERCs are smaller for their weight class for the most part; 75-ton HERCs top out at about ten meters, suggesting a much denser internal arrangement that is more susceptible to damage and more difficult to repair.

I'd say this is pure speculation. Most battletech mechs look flimsy. Their joins and legs are very thin and fragile or show no signs of any armoring at all on very important places.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on July 15, 2009, 06:30:04 am
Huh.  I'm going to have to say HERC.  Mechs do have a lot of armor, but I don't think ferro-fibrous armor and endo steel chassis will last long against plasma cannons, and anything short of a bunch of missiles, a Gauss Rifle, a PPC, or an X-Pulse Large Laser probably won't do much to a HERC's energy screens.  Plus HERC's have a fair amount of pretty tough armor themselves I'm guessing.

I beg to differ. :)

A PPC is a Plasma Pulse Cannon.
So why, if i may ask, is a plasma cannon more powerful then a plasma pulse cannon?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Ghostavo on July 15, 2009, 06:38:44 am
He's saying anything short of a bunch of missiles, a Gauss Rifle, a PPC, or an X-Pulse Large Laser probably won't do much to a HERC's energy screens. That means any weapon that doesn't fit into one of these categories isn't going to do much damage.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on July 15, 2009, 06:42:55 am
yeah, misread the post, sorry my bad.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 15, 2009, 08:20:58 am
I beg to differ. :)

A PPC is a Plasma Pulse Cannon.
So why, if i may ask, is a plasma cannon more powerful then a plasma pulse cannon?

Ummm. No. PPC = Particle Projector (or Projection) Cannon. Has been that way since forever. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_projection_cannon#Energy_weapons

Granted, their description make it sound like a plasma cannon, but the acronym is something different.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 15, 2009, 09:26:36 am
75-ton BattleMechs never go above 12 meters, and the average is between 9 and 10.

The Thor/Summoner is 12 meters at 70 tons. The Olympus from Starsiege is 80 tons and barely 9 meters. I was being generous regarding the Apocalypse MkI and Mk IV and the like, which are 60/65 tons and about 12 meters.

I'd say this is pure speculation. Most battletech mechs look flimsy. Their joins and legs are very thin and fragile or show no signs of any armoring at all on very important places.

And HERCs take even less care in this. What's your point, assuming you had one?


The BattleMech has been in service for centuries. They are an extremely redundant and highly refined design. A HERC that loses its armor just goes down. A 'Mech will be able to fight on even after losing limbs or a whole side torso. Unlike HERCs their weapons are internal and cannot be shot off with ease to neuter them. BattleMechs also demonstrate more advanced weapons; the Gauss rifle has already been mentioned as an example of the kind of power output a BattleMech is capable of, and the PPC is a clearly superior design to the ELF yet both work on the same principles.

The HERC, though, has shielding. Scout HERCs and scout 'Mechs are usually tied, but from medium-class up the HERCs are usually faster and more manuverable, though lacking the close-quarters versatility of a torso twist. Just to mire the issue badly, the Martian Civilization weapons the Resistance picked up in Starsiege put the weapons problem in doubt once more.

As a practical matter, they're probably about equal in terms of battlefield endurance. It comes down to tactics employed and weapons whose strength we can't judge.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mad Bomber on July 15, 2009, 10:10:36 am
Look, there are plasma weapons (the plasma rifle and plasma gun) in Battletech, both of which, ironically, are LESS plasma weapons than the PPC. The plasma rifle fires basically chunks of superheated foam crap, and the plasma gun is sort of a flamethrower deal (I forget its actual name.)

The CCAF's Plasma Rifle has the damage of a PPC, with the added benefit that it also raises the target's heat by 1-6 (or just roasts the hell out of infantry). The downside is it only has the range of a Large Laser, and it has the unfortunate necessity for ammo supply.

The Clan "plasma cannon" is basically a long-range heavy flamer, also reliant on ammo. It can roast infantry, but the burning foam won't do much to a target Mech besides increase its heat scale (but up to 12 added heat on an opponent is nothing to scoff at).

And about the names: Personally, I use what I think is the more iconic name for each Mech, or failing that, whatever name causes the least confusion. (My RP character has a reason for this stance; me, I'm just bored.)

* My use of the name Hellhound refers solely to the 50-ton Omni seen in MW4:Mercs, so that the second-liner can unequivocally be called the Conjurer. (Incidentally, the latter was supposed to have once been the Wolverine IIC, but was renamed for obvious reasons (http://sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Wolverine).)
* There are two mechs which could be called the Viper. Rather than confuse people, I don't use that name at all. I use Dragonfly for the 40-ton Omni (it fits better anyway) and Black Python for the 75-ton second-liner.
* Mad Cat is shorter than Timber Wolf. Not to mention there are the Clan spinoff designs based on it which don't even bother using the Timber Wolf name. (Mad Cat Mk2, anyone? That's not an IS callsign, that's actually what the Diamond Sharks named it.)
* Because I'm already using Mad Cat, Mad Dog seems kinda redundant. Not to mention there's also an unrelated War Dog. Vulture it is, just for ease of differentiation, and because the Mech itself looks much more birdlike than like a canine of any kind.
* Because I didn't play Ghost Bear's Legacy, I don't think of the 3055 Clan mechs with their Clan designations. The only exception is Goshawk, which I have no idea how I should pronounce (gaw-shawk? go-shock? goss-hawk? :nervous: ) so I stick with Vapor Eagle. Oh, and the above examples of the Black Python and Conjurer.
* I did play standard MW2, so these Mechs are forever etched into my consciousness with their Clan names: Firemoth, Kit Fox, Nova, Stormcrow, Gargoyle, Warhawk, and Dire Wolf. In the case of the Nova, I use its IS designation Black Hawk solely to refer to the 60-ton Kurita knockoff.
* Thor, Loki, Koshi, and Fenris are shorter than Summoner, Hellbringer, Mist Lynx, and Ice Ferret, the last of which sounds much less menacing than its IS name anyway.
* The 95-ton Omni will forever be a Gladiator to me, simply because I saw too damn many poptarting Gladbags in MW4:Mercs. I know there's also a Kurita 55-tonner. But it's so old and rare as to not matter much to me, apart from Keller's custom retool.
* Finally, both Adder and Puma work as far as I'm concerned, but I'll stick with Adder because there is also a Star League Puma assault tank. And the mech was made by the Star Adders anyway, so it fits better.

So yeah, I'm done.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 15, 2009, 10:50:59 am
* The 95-ton Omni will forever be a Gladiator to me, simply because I saw too damn many poptarting Gladbags in MW4:Mercs. I know there's also a Kurita 55-tonner. But it's so old and rare as to not matter much to me, apart from Keller's custom retool.

Whatnow? Kurita? 55-tonner? Gladiator?

I'm drawing a blank on this one from the TROs.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on July 15, 2009, 12:14:33 pm
You absolutely, positively cannot attempt to apply real-world physics to Battletech. Unless someone wants to explain how a mach 10 projectile's effective range, even against infantry, is less than a kilometer (or was it around 1.5km? Whatever, it's still ludicrous). Or as Cray over on the CBT boards pointed out, for an aerospace fighter to get the kind of acceleration it does, its engine has to produce more energy than the entirety of human civilization in the year 2009.
2 words: inertial damping
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 15, 2009, 12:16:38 pm
They don't have that kind of tech in BT. Not even artificial gravity.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on July 15, 2009, 12:20:24 pm
I want to fight on the outsides of spaceships again. But I want to be able to walk around the whole ship, reorienting as I go.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 15, 2009, 12:38:32 pm
I use the IS designations for two reasons.  I first heard the names in MW4:Mercs, my first serious attempt at playing a MechWarrior game, so they are basically stuck with me.  Second reason is I'm not a dirty vat-born Clanner.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 15, 2009, 12:58:53 pm
The Summoner is also one of the tallest BattleMechs in BattleTech.  Weight is not automatically height.

The official fluff reason that ranges are so low in BattleTech is that those ranges are the only ranges that it would be possible to inflict any meaningful damage on a 'Mech's magic armor.

As a proud Jade Falcon, I use Clan designations whenever possible.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 15, 2009, 01:05:22 pm
The BattleMech has been in service for centuries. They are an extremely redundant and highly refined design.

That's what the fluff sez. The looks of the mechs themselves doesn't always agree with that. I recall seeing exposed pneumatics on some mechs.



Quote
A HERC that loses its armor just goes down. A 'Mech will be able to fight on even after losing limbs or a whole side torso. Unlike HERCs their weapons are internal and cannot be shot off with ease to neuter them.

Exactly how does a bipedal mech with no arms fight after losing it's legs? :wtf:

Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 15, 2009, 01:15:00 pm
Exactly how does a bipedal mech with no arms fight after losing it's legs? :wtf:

Exactly how does a HERC that loses a leg fight?

Oh wait, that's right. It doesn't. A BattleMech can fight on after losing a leg, or both arms.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 15, 2009, 01:22:55 pm
As long as it has two limbs, in any combination, a BattleMech can keep fighting.  They can even do so without limbs.  It is funny when a 'Mech you though was out of play blasts someone with a torso mounted heavy weapon from prone.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 15, 2009, 01:36:08 pm
One thing I think starsiege had over MT was the in game omniweb. The chatter going on as the gierling platform fought on and eventually fell was truly epic and choked me up. Also I still have bad dreams about the siren program.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 15, 2009, 02:00:31 pm
Exactly how does a HERC that loses a leg fight?

Oh wait, that's right. It doesn't. A BattleMech can fight on after losing a leg, or both arms.

I never claimed it could. That would just stupid. Once you blast off a mechs/hercs leg, it falls down. Without arms, it can't get up. And the fall would probably do a number on it's weapons and other systems. Simple logic.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 15, 2009, 02:19:31 pm
this thread is getting way too geeky.... :p
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 15, 2009, 02:23:13 pm
Welcome to a scifi game fansite. Exits are non existant. Enjoy your stay.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 15, 2009, 02:25:14 pm
Exactly how does a HERC that loses a leg fight?

Oh wait, that's right. It doesn't. A BattleMech can fight on after losing a leg, or both arms.

I never claimed it could. That would just stupid. Once you blast off a mechs/hercs leg, it falls down. Without arms, it can't get up. And the fall would probably do a number on it's weapons and other systems. Simple logic.

Actually, I believe the fall does 1 point of damage for every 5 tons the 'Mech weighs, divided into five-point clusters and adjusted by the 'facing after a fall' table.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: headdie on July 15, 2009, 02:50:19 pm
Just qoes to show how detailed the rule set is for the game and how much the computer games dont do them justice
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 15, 2009, 03:52:21 pm
No, that particular part of the rules would be the special table for where to apply damage when a 'Mech is kicked from one level higher up while (the target is) in partial cover.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mongoose on July 15, 2009, 04:08:30 pm
I just find it rather amusing to see how many people debate points of realism on craft that, in any realistic setting, would be among the most impractical war implements ever designed. :p
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 15, 2009, 04:29:57 pm
Actually, a few good points have been made regarding conditions in which the Battlemech would be a realistic and practical tool for warfighting. Given the uber-armor present in the Battletech setting, it's not a bad design - the legs are the biggest strength and the big weak point.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 15, 2009, 05:12:32 pm
A major part of it is mobility.  Another is versatility.  There is a 'Mech for anything (except, curiously, underwater ops).  The vacuum-proofing lets it fight in more places than any other vehicle on the (BattleTech) battlefield.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 15, 2009, 05:19:30 pm
The Thor/Summoner is 12 meters at 70 tons. The Olympus from Starsiege is 80 tons and barely 9 meters. I was being generous regarding the Apocalypse MkI and Mk IV and the like, which are 60/65 tons and about 12 meters.
Because the Olympus is literally a walking tank and the Apocalypse is actually 70 tons.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: mxlm on July 15, 2009, 07:40:35 pm
Given the uber-armor present in the Battletech setting, it's not a bad design - the legs are the biggest strength and the big weak point.

The uber armor combined with the uber-lame targeting, guidance, and propulsion systems. The armor's awesomeness would be less awesome if SSMs could reliably pelt mechs from many hundreds of kilometers away.

Of course, if they did go the 'sane targeting' route, they could pull a Hammer's Slammers and say, "Point! Defense! Lasers! Defeat! Missiles! And! Artillery!" but that wouldn't do much to protect against kinetic penetrators.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 15, 2009, 07:51:56 pm
The ranges are a device to keep the table top battles from occupying about the same space as a basketball court.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: mxlm on July 15, 2009, 09:40:10 pm
Yes, I'm aware of that. They're still canon, and they're still wholly implausible. Multiplying all distances and times by ten (think that was the number) helps, but only to a small extent.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on July 15, 2009, 10:09:21 pm
ARGH. Stop bringing plausibility into this. Or is it that you want all your 'mechs being destroyed by cruise missiles from a missile destroyer 30 miles out to sea?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: StarSlayer on July 15, 2009, 10:17:45 pm
If they ever built something like a bipedal "mech" I'd imagine it would look and act something like a Whiskey Cobra on legs.  It would need to heft more ordinance then a gunship, and have better mobility then a MBT to have any chance of seeing the battlefield.  Even then I would imagine it employed similar to a really mobile MLRS then some sorta close combat monster like most "mechs" in fiction.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 15, 2009, 10:41:38 pm
Quote
It would need to heft more ordinance then a gunship, and have better mobility then a MBT to have any chance of seeing the battlefield.

1) Check, at least for most of them.  The rest (all of them, really) are also much less fragile.
2) Also check.  On the CBT forums, we figured the in-game speed of an Abrams MBT to be approximately 4/6, factoring in acceleration and the ten second "real time" turn.  Only a very few 'Mechs, mostly Assault class (80 tons+) and one Light (Oh, where would we be without you, O Urbanmech?) have less than that.  Those that are slower tend to carry a hell of a lot more firepower and ordinance than any two gunships and tanks combined. (Except the Urbie.  He has firepower of a tank, but not of a gunship/tank combined.)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: mxlm on July 15, 2009, 10:43:38 pm
Or is it that you want all your 'mechs being destroyed by cruise missiles from a missile destroyer 30 miles out to sea?

I guess you didn't read my post.

Battuta mentioned conditions under which mechs might be a realistic and practical tool. The inaccuracy and truncated ranges that are the hallmarks of BT weaponry is very relevant to those conditions.

I likes my giant robots and I likes my Battletech (also Heavy Gear, but less so). I'd like it more if it were more plausible--which I'm far from convinced is impossible, given the way in which  hovertanks (er, as in air cushion, not repulsors) are made (more) plausible in David Drake's stuff. Plus, it's kinda fun to poke holes in. Like, in the new House Handbooks (er, newer), we get things like GDP and population and minimum wage and so on. So, Steiner. Economics: planetary GDP ranges from five hundred million to almost five billion. Population on the example worlds listed earlier in the book: ranges from five hundred million to several billion. Average citizen's income is 17,000 dollar things/year. Spot the problem.

That's fun for me.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 15, 2009, 10:47:09 pm
That, my friend is what was (and still is) called FASAnomics :lol:.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 15, 2009, 10:48:17 pm
Average citizen's income is 17,000 dollar things/year. Spot the problem.
They get paid U.S. Army wages! :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mongoose on July 16, 2009, 01:38:26 am
I just don't see how the entire genre of giant robots/mechs, be they Gundam or Battletech, can ever be made to be all that more plausible than they are now...which is to say, hardly at all.  A bipedal design is inherently unstable by its very nature, particularly over the sort of rough terrain that a combat vehicle would be expected to deal with.  (Just take a look around the animal kingdom...notice how few species besides us rely on nothing more than two legs?  Animorphs had a good point there. :p)  Every sort of current prototype I've seen for autonomous mechanized sorts of units has had at least four legs (like that eerily lifelike military prototype whose video floats around a lot), with some going straight to six.  It gives you that much more of a stable test bed without making the gyroscopic problem even more horrendously complex, and it's more capable of picking its way over loose slag and steep hills without completely toppling over.  This becomes all the more crucial when you're talking about the sorts of scales that most of these universes tend to deal with.  If you can tell me how a two-legged mech on the order of ten to fifteen meters tall that weighs dozens of tons can plausibly cover any sort of terrain faster than an M-1 Abrams, no matter what sort of powerplant is driving it, I'd love to hear it.

So...yeah.  Mechs in general are a terribly fun concept, but I'm not holding my breath for them. :p
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 16, 2009, 01:45:07 am
Okay, trying to address this in order:  Instability?  Handwaved with gyroscopes.  I'm not really sure how those work.  I'll post in the "Masters of the Universe" thread for that tomorrow on CBT forums.  There are Quad 'Mechs in BattleTech.  Engine = fusion plant.  Fusion plant = Unlimited POWER! [/emperor].  Seriously, that's the realm of the myormer artificial "muscles."  They contract when subjected to electrical current.  I imagine that the speed at which they contract is proportional to the amount of power vs. the size of the bundle.  Hence, small 'Mechs are upgraded to ludicrous speed.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Ace on July 16, 2009, 02:51:37 am
The BattleMech has been in service for centuries. They are an extremely redundant and highly refined design. A HERC that loses its armor just goes down. A 'Mech will be able to fight on even after losing limbs or a whole side torso. Unlike HERCs their weapons are internal and cannot be shot off with ease to neuter them. BattleMechs also demonstrate more advanced weapons; the Gauss rifle has already been mentioned as an example of the kind of power output a BattleMech is capable of, and the PPC is a clearly superior design to the ELF yet both work on the same principles.

ELFs have additional armor penetration properties, and cause internal explosions in their targets by detonating munitions. ...and the Corporate War era ELF-mortar is nothing to laugh at.

The HERC, though, has shielding. Scout HERCs and scout 'Mechs are usually tied, but from medium-class up the HERCs are usually faster and more manuverable, though lacking the close-quarters versatility of a torso twist. Just to mire the issue badly, the Martian Civilization weapons the Resistance picked up in Starsiege put the weapons problem in doubt once more.

Earthsiege era HERCs have torso-twist. Also, the cache tech isn't really 'martian,' they're not from Sol. The blink-guns the toasters... errm glitches use are based on a similar cache found by the Cybrids in the outer solar system.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 16, 2009, 05:40:57 am
Not to mention two ELF2s at point blank range would vaporize even the Cerberus 100 ton Cybrid HERC, try that with two PPCs, it will barely do **** to anything bigger than a Medium.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 16, 2009, 06:12:46 am
Not to mention two ELF2s at point blank range would vaporize even the Cerberus 100 ton Cybrid HERC, try that with two PPCs, it will barely do **** to anything bigger than a Medium.

You realize that's an argument for me, not against, right? Because an ELF is a PPC on a string, and thus has severe range issues. Likewise to Ace. They function under the exact same principles, so anything the ELF can do that the PPC can't has to chalked up to crappy HERC design.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 16, 2009, 06:28:30 am
I stand to my claim that no mech/herc or bipedal machine or creature can retain balance after suddenly loosing it's leg.

It's simple enough to test. Let your friend knock one of your feet under you. Even if you know that attack is coming, you simply cannot position and compensate properly or fast enough.
Any mech that loses it's leg is virtually useless. It can't get up once it falls, even orienting itself becomes difficult, if not impossible.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 16, 2009, 07:09:23 am
It doesn't have to get up to shoot.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 16, 2009, 08:24:09 am
It has to be able to face it's enemy to shoot.
If it falls face down or to the side, how is it supposed to turn? Not to mention that the fall would probably end up damaging the weapons, bending barrels and stuff.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 16, 2009, 08:29:40 am
Not to mention the pilot braining himself on the dashboard lol.
 
Gotta say though I beat prometheus by taking his legs out. In an outrider emancipator :pimp:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 16, 2009, 09:30:26 am
It has to be able to face it's enemy to shoot.
If it falls face down or to the side, how is it supposed to turn? Not to mention that the fall would probably end up damaging the weapons, bending barrels and stuff.

It can perform as well as a tank with a broken track - arguably better, since it can turn and orients weapons by pushing itself around with its arms.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 16, 2009, 01:36:03 pm
It can perform as well as a tank with a broken track - arguably better, since it can turn and orients weapons by pushing itself around with its arms.

What arms? Most mecha don't have "arms" - just cannons. And a mech has to deal with damage from the explosion that knocked out it's arm and the fall.

What the hell will a Timberwolf do when it falls? nuttin', that's what.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Ace on July 16, 2009, 01:40:53 pm
Not to mention two ELF2s at point blank range would vaporize even the Cerberus 100 ton Cybrid HERC, try that with two PPCs, it will barely do **** to anything bigger than a Medium.

You realize that's an argument for me, not against, right? Because an ELF is a PPC on a string, and thus has severe range issues. Likewise to Ace. They function under the exact same principles, so anything the ELF can do that the PPC can't has to chalked up to crappy HERC design.

Or ELFs are just that awesome :p
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 16, 2009, 01:54:32 pm
It can perform as well as a tank with a broken track - arguably better, since it can turn and orients weapons by pushing itself around with its arms.

What arms? Most mecha don't have "arms" - just cannons. And a mech has to deal with damage from the explosion that knocked out it's arm and the fall.

What the hell will a Timberwolf do when it falls? nuttin', that's what.

No, all 'Mechs have arms. You can check the record sheets. Some of them are just big guns, some have hands, it varies.

Some mechs don't have upper arm or lower arm actuators, which impose penalties on the piloting checks required to move while down, but they can all stand back up again rules-wise.

So the Timberwolf would, uh, be fine.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: -Joshua- on July 16, 2009, 02:12:55 pm
...

Alright. The ceiling has blood spatters all over it now. Jumped too high.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: headdie on July 16, 2009, 02:37:33 pm
It can perform as well as a tank with a broken track - arguably better, since it can turn and orients weapons by pushing itself around with its arms.

What arms? Most mecha don't have "arms" - just cannons. And a mech has to deal with damage from the explosion that knocked out it's arm and the fall.

What the hell will a Timberwolf do when it falls? nuttin', that's what.

No, all 'Mechs have arms. You can check the record sheets. Some of them are just big guns, some have hands, it varies.

Some mechs don't have upper arm or lower arm actuators, which impose penalties on the piloting checks required to move while down, but they can all stand back up again rules-wise.

So the Timberwolf would, uh, be fine.

Atlas has upper and independent lower arms and hands, some of the books refer to attachable hand actuators
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 16, 2009, 02:49:18 pm
I just said exactly that. Upper arm actuators are, I believe, mandatory, but lower arm actuators and hand actuators are present on some 'Mechs but not others. I believe you can even attach hand actuators to OmniMechs using their pod system, so you could put hands on a Timber Wolf if you wanted.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 16, 2009, 02:56:02 pm
No, all 'Mechs have arms. You can check the record sheets. Some of them are just big guns, some have hands, it varies.

Some mechs don't have upper arm or lower arm actuators, which impose penalties on the piloting checks required to move while down, but they can all stand back up again rules-wise.

So the Timberwolf would, uh, be fine.


I couldn't care less what the rules say, cause they mean nothing really.
The only mech that could get up and at least marginalyl useful would be a almost completley humanoid one.

The Timberwolf has bird legs with very thin and exposed upper joints, and it's arms are two thin tubes that have a big cannon attached. They look like they would span right off by a light breeze - them holding up the 70 ton mech?  :lol:

A slowly crawing mech is virtually useless. It's a sitting duck with a big "shoot me" sign painted on. Whoever blew off it's leg is near, so unless the mech can get up or face it's opponent yesterday, then it's more or less doomed.


http://th01.deviantart.com/fs6/300W/i/2005/023/4/4/BattleMech_MadCat_by_SDouglas.jpg

I really have trouble seeing this thing stand up without a leg.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 16, 2009, 03:02:53 pm
If your argument is that a 'Mech is more vulnerable and less useful with a leg gone, sure. It's in exactly the same position as a tank with a cracked track, except that it can still use its other limbs to reposition itself.

And yeah, a legged 'Mech is pretty much doomed. What's the point again?

My earlier point was that 'Mechs can stand up with both their legs intact after falling. They can't stand up with one leg gone (the rules are pretty explicit about that too), unless it's a quad.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 16, 2009, 03:13:59 pm
It makes me smile because both views are moot when applied to elementals or cybrid humanoids like (forgot what his name is) from vengeance. :lol:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mika on July 16, 2009, 03:21:03 pm
13 pages of discussion  :eek2: ?

Mechs are much more popular than I ever thought. Or then we have a couple of very enthusiastic persons filling all the 10 pages.



Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 16, 2009, 03:21:44 pm
And yeah, a legged 'Mech is pretty much doomed. What's the point again?

He doesn't really have one. The point is that a 'Mech is able to continue operating in that condition and a HERC is not.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 16, 2009, 03:24:15 pm
Ah, right, that's where this came from. Gotcha.

Yes, that is true. And while legged 'Mechs are generally mission-kills, you can still prop yourself up and fire arm-mounted or torso-mounted weapons. That can make a big difference in a situation where a single 'golden BB" could crack a reactor casing or touch off ammo.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 16, 2009, 03:33:09 pm
Or better yet, when playing a double-blind game and the other player doesn't know that it just got legged and falls behind a hill or something.  I pity the poor sod who rounds the hill and gets a face full of pain from a legged Atlas.  Or a hunchback. :ick:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 16, 2009, 04:52:23 pm
And yeah, a legged 'Mech is pretty much doomed. What's the point again?

He doesn't really have one. The point is that a 'Mech is able to continue operating in that condition and a HERC is not.

Only if your definition of "operating" is equal to trashing on the ground. :lol:

Well, technicly, a war machine is still operation as long as it can fire. If one of your weapons is still functional and you can wiggle the mech a bit, then I'd guess it will still be "operational".
A HERC doesn't have a rotating torso, but it's weapons can track and swiwel, so a Mech would be somewhat better at trashing around until it faces an opponent.

Either way, sucks for the both of them.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 16, 2009, 04:59:39 pm
You mean thrashing... Don't you.

I'm for HERCs in the resilience stakes, but not in the "can survive on one foot" stakes.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 16, 2009, 05:00:40 pm
Yeah.  That, and 'Mechs actually have a set of rules for "thrashing around on the ground," complete with facing changes and propping themselves up on arms to fire weapons and stuff like that.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 16, 2009, 05:05:23 pm
Herc pilots however are a different matter. They're all born of survivors of a nuclear war that makes Judgement day look like a bit of sunburn.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Ally Cat on July 16, 2009, 05:05:51 pm
Only if your definition of "operating" is equal to trashing on the ground. :lol:

If you blow a leg off a HERC, it falls over, destroyed. (And always has, that's how Starsiege did it, that's how both Earthsiege games did it.) If you blow a leg off a 'Mech, it either stays standing but limps (MW4 and cousins) or it falls down, but can sit up and still fire all its available weapons. :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 16, 2009, 05:11:47 pm
Only if your definition of "operating" is equal to trashing on the ground. :lol:

If you blow a leg off a HERC, it falls over, destroyed. (And always has, that's how Starsiege did it, that's how both Earthsiege games did it.)
Yes, that's how STARSIEGE did it, on Earthsiege 2 the HERC would merely be disabled and the pilot would still be alive. :P
Though watching Talons flop around at 140+ Km/h is pretty funny. ;7
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Ace on July 16, 2009, 05:32:02 pm
Herc pilots however are a different matter. They're all born of survivors of a nuclear war that makes Judgement day look like a bit of sunburn.

Human//animal lies\\misinformation. Real <HERC pilots> are the <NEXT>! :pbbbt!:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 16, 2009, 05:38:02 pm
HUMAN ANIMAL//ICEHAWK-THIRD PLANET = SUPERIOR
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 16, 2009, 07:07:37 pm
If you blow a leg off a HERC, it falls over, destroyed. (And always has, that's how Starsiege did it, that's how both Earthsiege games did it.) If you blow a leg off a 'Mech, it either stays standing but limps (MW4 and cousins) or it falls down, but can sit up and still fire all its available weapons. :P


You see, that's because HERCs are powered by more common sense than Mechs. :p
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 16, 2009, 07:20:02 pm
 :wtf:

If your leg gets blown off, do you fall over and die?

No, you fall over and writhe around, and if you were immune to pain and blood loss (which Mechs are) then you could pick up your rifle and keep shooting. It happens.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 16, 2009, 07:42:05 pm
:wtf:

If your leg gets blown off, do you fall over and die?
Like I said, that's only Starsiege, you don't instantly die if your HERC's leg is destroyed on Earthsiege 2, the HERC is disabled and the pilot still lives, unless the fall causes catastrophic damage to the torso. Also the HERC can have its legs damaged to the point where it limps like a Mech with a "destroyed" leg.

Starsiege was the P.O.S. installment that botched half of the gameplay of Earthsiege 2, just like Heavy Gear 2 messed with their gameplay too much and made it so losing an arm meant bye-bye. :doubt:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 16, 2009, 07:43:05 pm
Fine, fine, that's all beside the point (or completely in agreement with my point.)

My comment was a rebuttal to Trashman's bizarre assertion that something should immediately explode when it falls over. He apparently subscribes to the same school of thought that makes cars explode during movie chase scenes.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 16, 2009, 07:52:09 pm
This makes me want to play Earthsiege. :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 16, 2009, 08:11:41 pm
Fine, fine, that's all beside the point (or completely in agreement with my point.)

My comment was a rebuttal to Trashman's bizarre assertion that something should immediately explode when it falls over. He apparently subscribes to the same school of thought that makes cars explode during movie chase scenes.

You mean as if it were made of explodium? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadeOfExplodium)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on July 16, 2009, 09:13:11 pm
DAMN YOU SCOTTY!

I WILL NOT BE LURED BY YOUR PROMISES OF EXPLODIUM! :hopping:

MY LIFE IS MY OWN, NOT SOMETHING TO BE TOYED WITH BY A MEANINGLESS TROPE! :mad:

lol :D :D
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 16, 2009, 09:29:59 pm
Well, when you have nothing to do for days on end, TVTropes actually becomes an effective way to pass the time.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Ace on July 16, 2009, 11:23:19 pm
Starsiege was the P.O.S. installment that botched half of the gameplay of Earthsiege 2, just like Heavy Gear 2 messed with their gameplay too much and made it so losing an arm meant bye-bye. :doubt:

Heavy Gear 2 was by far superior to HG1. Mostly because Gears are glorified powered armor, not mechs. So the new GUI and controls fit better.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mongoose on July 16, 2009, 11:26:00 pm
My comment was a rebuttal to Trashman's bizarre assertion that something should immediately explode when it falls over. He apparently subscribes to the same school of thought that makes cars explode during movie chase scenes.
Hey, it worked in Return of the Jedi. :p
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 16, 2009, 11:43:31 pm
Which is Star Wars.  And therefore even more subject to the rule of cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool) than BattleTech, and BT is run solely on the rule of cool.(link just for you Liberator :P)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on July 17, 2009, 12:46:06 am
DAMN IT!!!! :shaking:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 17, 2009, 05:35:11 am
Fine, fine, that's all beside the point (or completely in agreement with my point.)

My comment was a rebuttal to Trashman's bizarre assertion that something should immediately explode when it falls over. He apparently subscribes to the same school of thought that makes cars explode during movie chase scenes.

Explode? No, I didn't say that. I said that classic mech (bird legs, guns for arms) with it's legs blown off WILL fall down (no way in hell it can retain balance) and will get even more damage from the fall itself. It becomes a crippled, practicly unmoving target.

Do I have to explain it in details? Fine. See this image:
http://www.mektek.net/forums/uploads/post-29-1114206378.jpg

Let's take the MadCat/Timberwolf, since it's the poster child for the whole Battletech series. What happens when it's leg gets blown off by a missile or something? It topples over to it's side. which means all the lovely 70 tons end up crashing right on that flimsy little arm. It would be a miracle if the arm doesn't snap from that. Assuming it doesn't snap, Do you think it can lift that weight? Getting a mech in a sitting position is not easy in a situation like this (and that's an understatement). Not that you need to move it a sitting position. As long as the front of the mech is roughly facing the enemy, you should be able to train a functioning weapon towards him (more or less).
Mechs with real arms would be better at this than HERCs, but it's still a slow and ponderous process.

You're a big, damaged, trashing target - leaving the mech/HERC is a smarter move than continuing to fight in that case.

Fluff, manual and game performance matter little.
I could make a mech game and be lazy in coding, and make it so that damaged parts just become invisible instead of blowing off, and thus if you blow both legs off my mech, it will "float/hover" (since it's legs are still there, just invisible...destroyed). Does that mean that my mech design is super-awesome and loosing both legs doesn't hinder it's performance at all? Of course not.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: darkone on July 17, 2009, 08:06:59 am
Never actually played MW4 but played 1&2 and will definitely give this a try when it is available for download.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 17, 2009, 08:18:43 am
Fine, fine, that's all beside the point (or completely in agreement with my point.)

My comment was a rebuttal to Trashman's bizarre assertion that something should immediately explode when it falls over. He apparently subscribes to the same school of thought that makes cars explode during movie chase scenes.

Explode? No, I didn't say that. I said that classic mech (bird legs, guns for arms) with it's legs blown off WILL fall down (no way in hell it can retain balance) and will get even more damage from the fall itself. It becomes a crippled, practicly unmoving target.

Do I have to explain it in details? Fine. See this image:
http://www.mektek.net/forums/uploads/post-29-1114206378.jpg

Let's take the MadCat/Timberwolf, since it's the poster child for the whole Battletech series. What happens when it's leg gets blown off by a missile or something? It topples over to it's side. which means all the lovely 70 tons end up crashing right on that flimsy little arm. It would be a miracle if the arm doesn't snap from that. Assuming it doesn't snap, Do you think it can lift that weight? Getting a mech in a sitting position is not easy in a situation like this (and that's an understatement). Not that you need to move it a sitting position. As long as the front of the mech is roughly facing the enemy, you should be able to train a functioning weapon towards him (more or less).
Mechs with real arms would be better at this than HERCs, but it's still a slow and ponderous process.

You're a big, damaged, trashing target - leaving the mech/HERC is a smarter move than continuing to fight in that case.

Fluff, manual and game performance matter little.
I could make a mech game and be lazy in coding, and make it so that damaged parts just become invisible instead of blowing off, and thus if you blow both legs off my mech, it will "float/hover" (since it's legs are still there, just invisible...destroyed). Does that mean that my mech design is super-awesome and loosing both legs doesn't hinder it's performance at all? Of course not.


Well, sure, I agree with all that, but I'm no longer clear on what your point is. Mechs do fall over and take damage when they get a leg blown off. They can still remain mildly mobile (crawling to change facing, using arm and torso-mounted weapons), just like an MBT with a cracked track.

The damage the Mad Cat takes when it falls is fairly minor, comparable to an ER Medium Laser shot.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 17, 2009, 08:23:33 am
Fluff, manual and game performance matter little.

And thus you prove you have no argument or point at all; you're not willing to argue on the merits of either universe, only what you make up.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 17, 2009, 08:27:15 am
Well, sure, I agree with all that, but I'm no longer clear on what your point is. Mechs do fall over and take damage when they get a leg blown off. They can still remain mildly mobile (crawling to change facing, using arm and torso-mounted weapons), just like an MBT with a cracked track.

The damage the Mad Cat takes when it falls is fairly minor, comparable to an ER Medium Laser shot.
I think he's referring to the falling damage on a realistic scale, the PPC mounts on the Mad Cat do have some rather thin support, if it fell on its side those struts would end up bending or simply breaking off.
Possibly. :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 17, 2009, 08:30:58 am
They're made of myomer, ferro-fibrous, and endo-steel. We have no idea how light, strong, and resilient that material is, except for 'very'.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 17, 2009, 09:06:39 am

Well, sure, I agree with all that, but I'm no longer clear on what your point is. Mechs do fall over and take damage when they get a leg blown off. They can still remain mildly mobile (crawling to change facing, using arm and torso-mounted weapons), just like an MBT with a cracked track.

My point is that a tank with a damaged track is better off then a mech without a leg (since it can still turn it's turret just as fast). A mech without a leg is a deathtrap since it's practicly immobile and it's response and aquisition time is drasticly reduced.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 17, 2009, 09:16:40 am
Sure, that's a definite disadvantage, unless you're piloting a quad. Legging is the best anti-'Mech tactic from an infantry or armor standpoint.

But the legs come with huge mobility advantages of their own when undamaged, so it's a tradeoff.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 17, 2009, 12:31:10 pm
Also:

Fluff, manual and game performance matter little.

And thus you prove you have no argument or point at all; you're not willing to argue on the merits of either universe, only what you make up.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 17, 2009, 02:22:56 pm
But the legs come with huge mobility advantages of their own when undamaged, so it's a tradeoff.

Actually, that's highly debatable. But I best not get into that.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 17, 2009, 04:01:29 pm
Actually, that's highly debatable. But I best not get into that.

It's not debateable in BattleTech.  There is a reason the 'Mech is the king of the battlefield in that continuity.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on July 17, 2009, 08:02:13 pm
The only reason we dont' have walking tanks and stuff in the real world is our materials science is lagging way behind our engineering design.  The big deal right now is to develop a lightweight composite that has the same strength as steel, when they should be looking for alloys that that the same weight as steel and 10x the tensile strength and toughness.  Then we can build some proper space faring vessels that aren't tin foil on a frame of toothpicks.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 17, 2009, 08:55:54 pm
In other words, we're waiting for our very own applied phlebotinum (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AppliedPhlebotinum)  :drevil:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Turambar on July 17, 2009, 08:58:49 pm
13 pages of discussion  :eek2: ?

Mechs are much more popular than I ever thought. Or then we have a couple of very enthusiastic persons filling all the 10 pages.

Mechwarrior and Freespace are very similar.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 17, 2009, 09:01:16 pm
There is also a fair bit of just a few of us arguing over the most minute details.

Like whether a 'Mech should explode if it falls over.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mad Bomber on July 17, 2009, 10:34:57 pm
The big deal right now is to develop a lightweight composite that has the same strength as steel, when they should be looking for alloys that that the same weight as steel and 10x the tensile strength and toughness.  Then we can build some proper space faring vessels that aren't tin foil on a frame of toothpicks.

Hear, hear!
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: StarSlayer on July 18, 2009, 12:26:13 am
The only reason we dont' have walking tanks and stuff in the real world is our materials science is lagging way behind our engineering design.  The big deal right now is to develop a lightweight composite that has the same strength as steel, when they should be looking for alloys that that the same weight as steel and 10x the tensile strength and toughness.  Then we can build some proper space faring vessels that aren't tin foil on a frame of toothpicks.


That and the fact that it wouldn't do anything better then an MBT and would be a big ass target for two Jabronis and a FGM-148.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on July 18, 2009, 05:54:10 am
Ima throw into this argument with my favorite mech:

The Awesome (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Awesome)

Lightly customized replacing one ER-PPC with a pair of Large Lasers to smooth out the range profile.  Prolly get toasted by a more ballistic ship tho.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 18, 2009, 07:06:16 am
Actually, that's highly debatable. But I best not get into that.

It's not debateable in BattleTech.  There is a reason the 'Mech is the king of the battlefield in that continuity.

And again, I'm talking about design reality, not informed ability. If game/novel/movie X tells me that Z is the greatest sword in the universe, and yet  I see that it's design is logicly abysmal, then it's impossibly for me to take that seriously.

Reality check: Tanks are highly mobile. Take a look at abrams. It's fast, can cross over all kinds of terrain, has a low profile. It also has a very low surface pressure for it's weight and size, meaning it can cross terrains a mech would have big trouble with.


But I digress.
My whole point was that from a logical standpoint, mechs are less reliable than tanks.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on July 18, 2009, 11:29:31 am
Trashman, you've never done push ups or stood on one foot, have you?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SypheDMar on July 18, 2009, 11:57:29 am
"BigDog is funded by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency in the hopes that it will be able to serve as a robotic pack mule to accompany soldiers in terrain too rough for conventional vehicles. Instead of wheels or treads, BigDog uses four legs for movement, allowing it to move across surfaces that would defeat wheels"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog

I'm pretty sure that means that tanks can't go everywhere.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 18, 2009, 11:59:47 am
This topic is in seriuous danger of getting lockage. Divergent arguements are best handled via PM before they escalate.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 18, 2009, 03:09:48 pm
Actually, that's highly debatable. But I best not get into that.

It's not debateable in BattleTech.  There is a reason the 'Mech is the king of the battlefield in that continuity.

And again, I'm talking about design reality, not informed ability. If game/novel/movie X tells me that Z is the greatest sword in the universe, and yet  I see that it's design is logicly abysmal, then it's impossibly for me to take that seriously.

Reality check: Tanks are highly mobile. Take a look at abrams. It's fast, can cross over all kinds of terrain, has a low profile. It also has a very low surface pressure for it's weight and size, meaning it can cross terrains a mech would have big trouble with.


But I digress.
My whole point was that from a logical standpoint, mechs are less reliable than tanks.


EDIT:  Damn laptop, posted before I typed anything. :(

Unreality check:  You know, because it's a game, with magical armor and unrealistically reduced ranges.

Second, try to build a tank under BattleTech rules.  The best thing you can come up with will weigh 100 tons, but will be horribly slow because in BT, engines weigh 1.5 time normal in vehicles.  Then it can suffer a crit on every shot that hits.  'Mechs don't have that little caveat.  To top it all off, if a vehicle loses one section (i.e. left side, rear, etc.), then it is considered destroyed.

When you try to assert that vehicles are better, then systematically ignore all the flaws of said vehicles in the same continuity in favor of comparisons that favor modern technology, the argument is inherently flawed.

That said:  There isn't going to be much more talk on the new game, because there isn't any news coming out on it.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: mxlm on July 19, 2009, 02:02:32 am
Unreality check:  You know, because it's a game, with magical armor and unrealistically reduced ranges.

I sometimes wonder what BT fluff would look like if they'd simply never given us hard numbers for ranges. That is, if medium lasers had a maximum range of nine hexes and no we won't tell you what that converts to in meters. Likewise, if they'd never told us turns are six seconds.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 19, 2009, 05:15:16 am
"BigDog is funded by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency in the hopes that it will be able to serve as a robotic pack mule to accompany soldiers in terrain too rough for conventional vehicles. Instead of wheels or treads, BigDog uses four legs for movement, allowing it to move across surfaces that would defeat wheels"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BigDog

I'm pretty sure that means that tanks can't go everywhere.

You do realise BigDog is intended to follow soldiers trough forests and into buildings, up the stairs? It's small, designed to carry equipment into tight places, it's not designed as a big combat unit.


Second, try to build a tank under BattleTech rules.  The best thing you can come up with will weigh 100 tons, but will be horribly slow because in BT, engines weigh 1.5 time normal in vehicles.  Then it can suffer a crit on every shot that hits.  'Mechs don't have that little caveat.  To top it all off, if a vehicle loses one section (i.e. left side, rear, etc.), then it is considered destroyed.

When you try to assert that vehicles are better, then systematically ignore all the flaws of said vehicles in the same continuity in favor of comparisons that favor modern technology, the argument is inherently flawed.

Ah. Thanks for proving my point. That the continuity makes little sense even within itself. Vecihle engines magicly weigh a whole lot more than they should be and are underpowered exactly why? Can suffer a crit on every shot exactly why? To make mechs sound better. there's no real logical explanation behind it.
 
The continutiy can tell me that the best gun in the universe has a curved, U shaped barrel that send the projectile back towards whoever fires it. It can't tell me to take it seriously at all if it claims something like that.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 19, 2009, 06:12:58 am
The whole point of tanks (and other heavy stuff) having tracks is to spread the weight of the whicle over a larger surface area, rather than 4 specific points as with wheels. For a Heavy/Assault Mech to focus so much weight on just one or two points (ie; the feet) would surely be a problem in swamp or similar soft terrain.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 19, 2009, 07:08:23 am
Quote
Ah. Thanks for proving my point. That the continuity makes little sense even within itself. Vecihle engines magicly weigh a whole lot more than they should be and are underpowered exactly why? Can suffer a crit on every shot exactly why? To make mechs sound better. there's no real logical explanation behind it.
 
The continutiy can tell me that the best gun in the universe has a curved, U shaped barrel that send the projectile back towards whoever fires it. It can't tell me to take it seriously at all if it claims something like that.

I did not prove your point.  If anything, you proved mine with this, because you once again ignored everything but your pre-formed opinion.

The continuity makes sense in the context of the game.  Which I once again point out is a game.  The problem with that analogy at the end is that analogy makes no sense, continuity notwithstanding.  Obviously, the best weapon is the one that fires the highest damage shot for the best heat-tradeoff.  If some poor bastard in universe things the reverse, then he is indeed a poor bastard.

Also, said U-shaped barrel weapon could indeed be the best weapon in the game based on the standards above.  That said, if it doesn't fire at the enemy, the point is moot.  The point is not moot simply because you refuse to indulge in a resonable suspension of disbelief.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 19, 2009, 12:14:41 pm
This has nothing to do with suspension of disbelief.

You're so stuck on that continuity you're unable to see anything else. I'm looking at the bigger picture here. In universe, anything that is said to be canon stands. So much is true for any game universe everywhere. That however, doesn't mean that it makes logical sense.
Pointing that out doesn't mean I can't enjoy games like that. (or that I don't like em) Get out of the fanboy-defense mode.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 19, 2009, 12:27:55 pm
I do think Trashman has a point here.

However, Trash, you should also remember that the BTverse has made a number of advances in materials sciences which give Mechs an edge. If, in real life, we came up with myomer fibers, it's very possible that 'Mechs would be explored as a tactical option. The big disadvantages are the legs and the much higher target profile, but on the other hand, they're more nimble than an Abrams just by virtue of their means of transit.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 19, 2009, 12:35:18 pm
They'd still need conventional support in my opinon no matter the advances made.. This discussion just got re-interesting :nod:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: TrashMan on July 19, 2009, 02:23:41 pm
However, Trash, you should also remember that the BTverse has made a number of advances in materials sciences which give Mechs an edge. If, in real life, we came up with myomer fibers, it's very possible that 'Mechs would be explored as a tactical option. The big disadvantages are the legs and the much higher target profile, but on the other hand, they're more nimble than an Abrams just by virtue of their means of transit.

You really think that any engine capable of moving a huge mech on 2 feet would move a tank any slower?
You do realise a 70 ton Abrams tank can reach 97 km/h if pushed? Any new technolgoy is rarely restricted to just one thing or veichle.

But again, I digress. Are there any more news? Aside from those really short teasers I didn't find anything else on the internets. You'd figure a screenshot from in-game would be nice.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 19, 2009, 02:41:49 pm
Tanks by definition use a set of wheels with axles turning a big ol' tread. You can't put myomer to use in there. Mechs, on the other hand, have a human-style musculature, and if you doubt that there are a few advantages to legs mobility-wise, compare a human's versatility to that of a Segway.  :p

Of course I'm aware of the Abrams' high top speed.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 19, 2009, 05:17:08 pm
You do realise a 70 ton Abrams tank can reach 97 km/h if pushed?

And yet can't make it useful. That speed is only even possible over a flat ground and tears it up to the point a wheeled vehicle would find it difficult to follow. Attempting it over any kind of rough terrain is just abusing the electronics; you wouldn't be able to fire accurately even with the stablization.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 19, 2009, 06:04:25 pm
Also, 'Mechs have the advantage in acceleration.  It only takes a few steps to get to running, while it takes a bit for a vehicle going flat out to reach its maximum speed.

Quote
But again, I digress. Are there any more news? Aside from those really short teasers I didn't find anything else on the internets. You'd figure a screenshot from in-game would be nice.

Terribly sorry, did I not post these here?

Video #1 (http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/18954/mech-warrior-project/videos/mechwarrior_trl_phoenix_70709.html)
Video #2 (http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/18954/mech-warrior-project/videos/mechwarrior_spc_rewindtheaterr_070809.html) (this is just the first one with commentary)
Q and A Page (http://pc.ign.com/articles/100/1002164p1.html)
Reveal Article (http://pc.ign.com/articles/100/1002275p1.html)
Teh Pictures (http://media.pc.ign.com/media/018/018954/imgs_1.html)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Leeko on July 24, 2009, 04:22:34 pm
Not sifting through 16 pages of text, so I'm sorry if this has become off-topic, but here's my opinion.
I think the RPG elements that the devs were discussing could breathe a whole lot of life into the game - and possibly prevent me from going straight to an assault 'mech as soon as possible :P - but development for the PC and 360 worries me a little. It will take a team of miracle workers to get anything to work equally on both, given the nature of Mechwarrior's gameplay. I don't see the controls working well on a 360, and if they dumbed it down to appeal to 360 owners*cough*mechassault*cough* then playing it on the PC wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable (the PC being my first choice for video games, though I do own both). Though the wisdom of the developers is shown in their hesitation to commit to a publisher; they're being careful not to end up with a publisher like EA who will irrevocably alter the developers' vision (read: Spore). I'm slightly disappointed that it takes place 35 years before the Clan invasion (Jade Falcon for life!) but I can see how it makes sense since they're rebooting the series. I hope they make one from a clan viewpoint, MW is still my favorite (and was my first) PC game of all time. :nod:

Rather than it being like one of the other MW games, I hope the developers make their own way of bringing the 31st century to the 21st century (on a side note, I disagree with the abundant criticism of MW4). And with the aforementioned RPG elements, as well as planned continuous online co-op campaign play, I'm excited regardless... my lance is already assembled, and we're planning to have weekly Mechwarrior meetings a la D&D. Now, I just hope they bring back that good old computer voice from MW2...

All systems nominal!
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 24, 2009, 07:17:01 pm
I would link you to any of ten other discussions about this in other forums, but if you didn't read a piddling little 16 page thread, you wouldn't read those.

Quote
but development for the PC and 360 worries me a little. It will take a team of miracle workers to get anything to work equally on both, given the nature of Mechwarrior's gameplay. I don't see the controls working well on a 360, and if they dumbed it down to appeal to 360 owners*cough*mechassault*cough* then playing it on the PC wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable (the PC being my first choice for video games, though I do own both)

We had a rather rousing discussion about the "dumbing it down" fear on the CBT forums.  The 360 has a lot more buttons than you think, and all the essentials can fit on it easily.*  Indeed, dumbing it down for the console players may be counter productive in both areas, because I sure as hell would hate it.  And no matter what rumors you hear, this isn't MechAssault.  

* by essentials, I mean:

If you're still not convinced on the controls, I have a post that outlined them pretty completely on the other forum.  I'll dig it up if you need it.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Flaser on July 24, 2009, 07:54:44 pm
Exactly how does a HERC that loses a leg fight?

Oh wait, that's right. It doesn't. A BattleMech can fight on after losing a leg, or both arms.

I never claimed it could. That would just stupid. Once you blast off a mechs/hercs leg, it falls down. Without arms, it can't get up. And the fall would probably do a number on it's weapons and other systems. Simple logic.

Actually, I believe the fall does 1 point of damage for every 5 tons the 'Mech weighs, divided into five-point clusters and adjusted by the 'facing after a fall' table.

Somehow I still can't believe how much easier things are with this rule set:

Renegade Tech - Google Retrieve (http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:U3uOKqHMSwcJ:www.fluency.paintedtarget.org/rtech/frameright.html+Battletech+Renegade+Tech&cd=7&hl=hu&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a).

Renegade Tech - Web Archive (http://web.archive.org/web/20080211172025/http://www.fluency.paintedtarget.org/rtech/index.html)

The site is undergoing a refit, so I could only post a Google retrieve for the time being. This "mod" adapts the Renegade Legion (another FASA board game) damage system for Battletech. Simply put, the mechs internals, weapons, heat sinks etc. are put into an actual diagram with armor "layered over". Then weapons have specific "damage profiles" that you overlay this diagram to get actual damage. Simple, fast and very complex at the same time - all in all fun.



On the "real mech" issue:
As depicted in any real robot anime (beside GITS) they will never happen.

Several things cause this, simple trigonometry being one of them. A tank not only has a lower target profile, it's armor's slant multiplies its effectiveness. To be just as effective you will need a low profile. Multi legged, ground hugging and track/wheel using mechs are a lot more likely.

As to "dodging" (something that always comes up in "mech discussion"): can't do. Current anti-tank rounds travel at 975 m/s, several times the speed of sound. You can't dodge that. LOS (line of sight), hitscan (when it sees you, it hits you) weapons like lasers and particle guns will be even harder to dodge.

So no. Legged fighting vehicles will be a niche that fight in insanely rugged environments, the plains will be ruled by tanks and everyone will be owned by air/space power. The mech will be the odd vehicle that puts the artillery on the top of that insanely steep/rugged hill or into the depths of that uncrossable forest. They will to the same with AA guns/missiles. They might even do skirmishing in those areas... however frontal assault is unlikely.

These vehicles will be very expensive and very maintenance intensive. Their unique mobility will be a treasured ability for any field commander to bring the hurt in from unlikely positions. However they will be too complex and expensive to do mere "grunt work". A squad of infantry (maybe transported on a mech) will fight just as effectively for a fraction of the price with a fraction of the headache associated with a very complex machine.

Finally if we ever get powered armor (which for the foreseeable future will be a far cry from the Heinleinian death machine everyone imagines) most grunts will be able to carry a very substantial anti-tank load.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Nyarly on July 25, 2009, 03:37:17 am
So yeah, bit of a late response, but hey, my Internet conncection died literally minutes before the trailer was supposed to come out, and it's taken me awhile to get back around.  So sue me.

Anyhow, the trailer was great.  :eek2: I watched it five times alone on the first day.  I am excited that they're going to set it during 3015 on the DC-FS border, as the Davion-Kurita feud of the Third Succession War is one of the setting's best conflicts, what with all the mutual hatred but respect between the two sides (and who doesn't like the idea of Space Victorians and Space Tokugawans facing off?)  

Also, anybody notice the hula girl in the cockpit?  And did anybody else get a flashback to MW2's "SA-TE-LITE UPLINK ES-TA-BLISHED" when the Warhammer launched the drone?


A released picture from the game has Devlin Stone's distinct Atlas fighting what appears to be a Reseen Warhammer. So yep, the setting is the Jihad. Though the War of 3039 was something I also guessed at, NGTM-1R.

I wonder if the Unseen will make an appearance...
Alright, I need to insert my foot in my mouth for this post.  Seriously though, that Drac Atlas looked a lot like the one Stone is using to fight the Blakists in the current storyline.  Still, I like the "Mad Max" era, and 3015 is a good "reboot date" for the franchise (though 3025 might have been better).

Also, I kind of like how the Warhammer was a mish-mash of the Unseen and Reseen versions.


It's strange to see people getting crazy excited over ten-second clips that are utterly meaningless to me. :p I hope that it is a new MW title for you guys' sake, though.
Hey man, if somebody released a ten secon clip with Queen-esque music playing, a pair of large robotic eyes flashing on, and the words "SHOWTIME", wouldn't you assume a third season of The Big O was coming?  Because I would.  The fans' intial reactions in this thread are pretty close to that response, I think.

So BT is the poorman's 40k without the dark gods and sadistic elves bringing the pain, only misguided and utterly selfish politicians and tyrants who will do and say anything to increase they're powerbase.  YAY!  Social commentary from a tabletop game.
Nah.  As General Battuta and others mentioned, Battletech is a bit more than something so... grimdark.  While it is mostly a game of neo-feudal knights riding giant robotic steeds and waging sometimes dirty, sometimes chivalric across many alien worlds for varying causes, it does have a greater theme to it.  That is basically "Technology will evolve, but man will not"; the best and worst of Mankind is very prevalent in Battletech. However, it is also very morally ambigious much of the time; sometimes, one character will do good deeds for selfish reasons, while another with noble intentions for all mankind will pave the road to Hell.  There also plenty of Machiavellian characters who sacrifice their own humanity and souls for the good of their people and nations.  There are arch-rivals who might be friends and allies if not for the mistakes of their ancestors, and those who, despite the hatred between their nations, see each other as kindred spirits.  However, there are recognizable heroes and villians, and most of the nations can be said to be better or worse than others.

BT is what 40k would look like if it were actually plausible.

...no wait, that's Rifts.

There are different scales of evil. Word of Blake is off there sitting at the far religious-fanaticism possibly-wipe-out-the-human-race end, the Clans are, for the most part, somewhere towards the far end for their social structures, the Capellan Confederation ain't terribly evil but likes to push the limits of acceptable behavior disturbingly often, the Draconis Combine is more backwards in their society but more acceptable in their intentions, the Lyran Alliance is sitting in at the near end for widespread corruption, and the Federated Suns is tucked in with the evils of modern society. The Free Worlds League would be too, except for being in bed with Word of Blake.

The only totally pristine organization is probably the Com Guards, but even for them politics gets in the way a lot.

I agree with your list for the most part (and I find it amusing that you entirely forgot to rank the Periphery and minor IS states).

However, I think the Lyrans should be cut some slack.  While their military is a bit ineffective in the upper ranks, and their society is a bit materialistic, I doubt there's a realm I'd rather live in than the Lyran Commonwealth; at least in terms of government (they have the most extensive constitution of any Successor State, and the Steiner family has tradtionally been one of the nicest Houses in how they treat their subjects) and lifestyle (free market capitalism with plenty of oppurtunity for anybody to make a better life from themselves and their children).  The Free Worlds League would be just as good (heck, they're the only Successor State that's TECHNICALLY a democracy), except for all the internal division and increasing tyranny at the hands of House Marik.  The FedSuns are the de facto good guys of the setting, and are quite applaudable in their efforts to spread the American Davion way of life, but they have horrible social issues, such as disparity of education and the fact that the central government rarely seem to care about the common people.

Also, what's your take on Post-Schism ComStar?  I rather liked their goals of spreading knowledge, and Focht's a pretty cool guy.  Admittedly, I also sort of liked the early Word of Blake, back when they were just trying to gain recognition and legitimacy among the interstellar community.


Heavy Gear 2 was hardly sim-ish, they removed weight, individual components, individual armor, parts compatability, and segment destruction. :doubt:
To be fair, HG2 was much more in line with what Heavy Gear is really like in terms of gameplay and atmosphere (glorified battle armor), while HG1 was pretty much a Mechwarrior game with Gears.  It had a much better storyline, though.



I just find it rather amusing to see how many people debate points of realism on craft that, in any realistic setting, would be among the most impractical war implements ever designed. :p
Heh.  :) People do this all the time with Battletech, since it's one of the most... plausible settings including Mechs/Mecha (though it has its own problems, lemme tell you).


quote author=General Battuta link=topic=64227.msg1270201#msg1270201 date=1247693397]
Actually, a few good points have been made regarding conditions in which the Battlemech would be a realistic and practical tool for warfighting. Given the uber-armor present in the Battletech setting, it's not a bad design - the legs are the biggest strength and the big weak point.
[/quote]Yep.  The magic armor, myomer fibers, and neurohelmet stuff does make them highly believable within their own setting.  They are the highly versatile, all-around best combat units in Battletech (which is their greatest strength).  Plus, they are very important warmachinces from a CULTURAL standpoint.   :nod:


The ranges are a device to keep the table top battles from occupying about the same space as a basketball court.
Yeah, and the ranges have been retconned to actually be horizon-to-horizon for the longest ranged direct fire weapons (Gauss rifles, lasers, PPCs, etc.).  Missiles and artillery are now "allowed" to go over the horizon, like in real life.  Still, they left the wonky targetting systems.

Mechwarrior and Freespace are very similar.
True story: I found about FreeSpace and HLP from a Mechwarrior gaming league.


This has nothing to do with suspension of disbelief.

You're so stuck on that continuity you're unable to see anything else. I'm looking at the bigger picture here. In universe, anything that is said to be canon stands. So much is true for any game universe everywhere. That however, doesn't mean that it makes logical sense.
Pointing that out doesn't mean I can't enjoy games like that. (or that I don't like em) Get out of the fanboy-defense mode.
Actually, I do think you have to suspend your disbelief.  However, once you start thinking that "Mechs have bodies optimisted to carry Battletech's uber-technology better than tanks" it makes everything far more believable.  It's just how it works in that universe.

Trying to apply logic too mcuh ruins many, many science fiction settings.   ;)

Plus, conventional vehicles are still very common in Battletech (with tanks actually being better than Mechs at several things).

Still, all and all I can't wait for the MW game to come out.  Until then, I can entertain myself with the soon to be free MW4 (which I actually enjoyed, so 'bah!' to all you haters).  



PS.  Is it so wrong that, despite being an Inner Sphere player, I actually prefer the Clan names for their 'Mechs?






Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 25, 2009, 01:12:22 pm
#1) Welcome back Nyarly.

#2)  I didn't read most of that because it is long, but your last sentence is completely reasonable.  No reason not to use the better names :yes:.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 25, 2009, 01:33:01 pm
Bah.  Daishi>Direwolf, and Mad Cat>Timberwolf.  Inner Sphere all the way.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 25, 2009, 01:38:43 pm
Possibly, but Summoner>Thor and Hellbringer>Loki.  Not to mention Stormcrow>Ryoken.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 25, 2009, 01:45:02 pm
Bah.  Daishi>Direwolf, and Mad Cat>Timberwolf.  Inner Sphere all the way.


Totally disagreed. The Clan names have a more consistent theme, are more animalistic, and are more aesthetically pleasing.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 25, 2009, 01:45:55 pm
Thor>Summoner.  I will grant you Hellbringer is better than Loki, however Stormcrow/Ryoken is debatable.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 25, 2009, 01:48:15 pm
With any other 'Mech, this would not matter that much, but Summoner>Thor.  This is law.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 25, 2009, 01:51:35 pm
The IS names are a hodgepodge of mismatched references and misaligned mythologies. The Clan names are totemic, coherent, and threatening.

Of course it all probably comes down to whether you started playing with the superb MW2, the beautiful MW3, or the somewhat plastic MW4.  :p
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 25, 2009, 02:54:58 pm
The IS names are a hodgepodge of mismatched references and misaligned mythologies. The Clan names are totemic, coherent, and threatening.

Of course it all probably comes down to whether you started playing with the superb MW2, the beautiful MW3, or the somewhat plastic MW4.  :p

Spot on! I started with MW2, albeit watered down PS1 version, so it's Summoner, Hellbringer, Dire Wolf etc for me.  ;)

Incidentally, although it appears to be mostly political, I think the exodus of the Star League Defence Force would be a cool backdrop for a Mechwarrior game.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 25, 2009, 03:02:53 pm
Start a little before that, on the March to Terra.  Ending would be the exodus.

Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on July 25, 2009, 03:10:08 pm
I hope this game lets you punch things. In MW4, Atlases always had such massive fists, and they seemed at least one and a half times taller than any other mech. I'd always want to charge a whole bunch of light mechs and literally smack them around.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 25, 2009, 03:12:22 pm
Well, the boardgame allows you to pick up 20 ton Mechs when you're riding in a 100 ton machine...
It's fun to first disable an enemy Flea, then smack people around with it....  :D
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 25, 2009, 03:15:08 pm
Some of the IS names have a certain...aura, that the Clan ones lack. The Daishi most obviously.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 25, 2009, 03:16:56 pm
You can only pick up 20 tonners that are completely out of play, and the 100 tonner must have TSM activated.  Then you get to use it as a club :D.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 25, 2009, 03:21:04 pm
You can only pick up 20 tonners that are completely out of play, and the 100 tonner must have TSM activated.  Then you get to use it as a club :D.

Tell it to the Atlas fluff which claims you can pick up a medium 'Mech and throw it down.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 25, 2009, 03:26:08 pm
Fluff, not rules.  Rules only allow for 20 tonners, and then only with TSM.  We had a discussion on this very subject just this last week.  Anyway, I am fairly sure that fluff is in the Technical Readouts: 3025 (or 3039, whichever).  Under the Atlas it says that there are horror stories of it being able to pick up and throw down Light 'Mechs.

EDIT:  Looked it up, and it does say Medium 'Mechs, but it uses it in the context of a horror story.

The exact passage:
Quote from: AS7-D Atlas
The four medium lasers and short-range missiles make the "Mech a good close-range fighter, while its internal structure gives the arms and hands enormous power. This has created many horror stories concerning Atlases and their ability to pick up medium-sized 'Mechs with one hand and fling them to the ground as though they were mere toys,
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 25, 2009, 04:33:19 pm
Horrors stories...about something it can do. The context suggests this is something it is actually capable of, but doesn't really get the chance to, not that this is something it's not capable of but people credit it with anyways.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Sarafan on July 25, 2009, 05:48:37 pm
Horrors stories...about something it can do. The context suggests this is something it is actually capable of, but doesn't really get the chance to, not that this is something it's not capable of but people credit it with anyways.

On the trailer, if the moment the Atlas appeared in front of the Warhammer, the Atlas had punched it the game would be automatically perfect. :D
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Ace on July 25, 2009, 07:13:49 pm
Bah.  Daishi>Direwolf, and Mad Cat>Timberwolf.  Inner Sphere all the way.

Freebirth scum.  :doubt:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 25, 2009, 07:32:13 pm
Aff.  That they are brother Clanner.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 26, 2009, 01:17:52 pm
Problem with the atlas is it's by far the easiest mech to nail with a "head" shot. Even I do it from time to time in MW4 (nailed one with two ERlaser shots and a twin'd Clan Gauss Rifle shot), despite being a crappy aim lol.  :D

edit: now I remember, is it ""correct" that MW4 allows the player to fully custom the loadout of a battlemech, as apposed to an Omnimech ? I thought the modular nature is what seperated the two ?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 26, 2009, 01:23:34 pm
That, friend, is one of the bigger complaints against MW4.  They tried to dress it by keeping some slots specific to energy, or ballistics or the like, but it didn't work so well.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 26, 2009, 01:26:11 pm
I thought OmniMechs just had weapons pods that allowed weapons to be swapped in the field.  In MW4 you have a JumpShip and a DropShip at your disposal, so I assume you have a full 'Mechbay for weapon refits.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 26, 2009, 01:28:52 pm
Yes, but changing the engine on one of those things is supposed to take a full factory refit, not some dropship job.

EDIT:  You do not own the jumpship.  You hitch rides with scheduled jumpships.  If you had a jumpship, you would be more than just a simply mercenary.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 26, 2009, 03:59:02 pm
EDIT:  You do not own the jumpship.  You hitch rides with scheduled jumpships.  If you had a jumpship, you would be more than just a simply mercenary.

You'd be a very rich mercenary. :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: mxlm on July 26, 2009, 04:42:18 pm
That, friend, is one of the bigger complaints against MW4. 
Because the customization of IS mechs that had no business being customized was new to that title?

MW2: Mercs, MW3...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 26, 2009, 04:57:07 pm
I actually quite liked the custom loadout options.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 26, 2009, 05:00:54 pm
Gameplaywise, it made sense. In-Universe, it didn't.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 26, 2009, 05:02:15 pm
I like being able to customize things because having fixed loadouts usually results in all the badass looking things having something that I completely hate using which keeps me from using it at all.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 26, 2009, 05:11:44 pm
Omnis should be freely customizable, but non-Omni customization should take lots of effort and lots of money. And things like engines shouldn't be alterable.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on July 26, 2009, 11:10:21 pm
I was thinking the other day: in MW2 and MW3 since the mechs are completely customizable there's really no difference between mechs of the same tonnage, right? Except for firing point placement and different torso twist ranges, they have the same number of critical slots, so it should all be the same.... I think.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 27, 2009, 06:12:08 am
In MW4 the general layout seems to matter. I really like the Timberwolf (nee MadCat) but badguys seem to have no trouble "striping" it of weapons  :rolleyes:
Don't really have that problem with Hellbringer and Summoner.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 27, 2009, 06:23:59 am
In MW4 the general layout seems to matter. I really like the Timberwolf (nee MadCat) but badguys seem to have no trouble "striping" it of weapons  :rolleyes:
Don't really have that problem with Hellbringer and Summoner.

One of the things you learn on Solaris in MW4: Mercs is that some designs can be rapidly disarmed. It's a key tactic dealing with certain designs like the Cauldron-Born and Sunder, who will otherwise take the opportunity to close and **** you up with heavy autocannons. Some of the Solaris customs are terribly vunerable to it to, like the Wolfhound.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 27, 2009, 07:15:50 am
Yeah Cougar with 2xERLaser and 2xCSRMs is a handy little scrapper at Solaris but I've never finished with a full weapon loadout.   :blah:

Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on July 27, 2009, 04:40:25 pm
Well of course it matters in MW4, since the different mechs have different kinds of weapon slots. I'm talking about the older games where any mech can mount anything anywhere as long as it has the free tonnage and criticals.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 27, 2009, 04:55:38 pm
What games where those? :wtf:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on July 27, 2009, 04:56:50 pm
MW2 and MW3?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on July 27, 2009, 05:49:59 pm
and the MC games.  Although, those were only critical slots, so you could conceivable mount 60 tons of weapons on a 55 ton 'Mech.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 27, 2009, 05:56:59 pm
MW2 did that? I remember them having three different loadout sets that you could select.
Unless that was only the PS version.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 28, 2009, 03:47:25 pm
MW2 did that? I remember them having three different loadout sets that you could select.
Unless that was only the PS version.

Yeah I recall the PS version allowed two options of a weapons loadout, rather than fully custom.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Wanderer on July 28, 2009, 04:36:52 pm
In MW4 the general layout seems to matter. I really like the Timberwolf (nee MadCat) but badguys seem to have no trouble "striping" it of weapons  :rolleyes:
Don't really have that problem with Hellbringer and Summoner.

One of the things you learn on Solaris in MW4: Mercs is that some designs can be rapidly disarmed. It's a key tactic dealing with certain designs like the Cauldron-Born and Sunder, who will otherwise take the opportunity to close and **** you up with heavy autocannons. Some of the Solaris customs are terribly vunerable to it to, like the Wolfhound.
Hehe... always aiming for fastest mechs (apart from assault series) loading as many CLBX20s as possible the solaris wasnt that bad.. as long as your aim was good.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 28, 2009, 05:22:09 pm
Any ideas why I seem to have to reinstall the MW4 Mech packs every few months ? I have the patches to fix them installed as well.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on July 28, 2009, 05:24:06 pm
Not sure, I haven't had that problem before.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Sarafan on July 28, 2009, 09:26:21 pm
In MW4 the general layout seems to matter. I really like the Timberwolf (nee MadCat) but badguys seem to have no trouble "striping" it of weapons  :rolleyes:
Don't really have that problem with Hellbringer and Summoner.

One of the things you learn on Solaris in MW4: Mercs is that some designs can be rapidly disarmed. It's a key tactic dealing with certain designs like the Cauldron-Born and Sunder, who will otherwise take the opportunity to close and **** you up with heavy autocannons. Some of the Solaris customs are terribly vunerable to it to, like the Wolfhound.

Dont forget the Thanatos and Argus, the easiest heavy mechs to disarm and kill in the whole game.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Hades on July 29, 2009, 05:07:10 am
Dont forget the Thanatos and Argus, the easiest heavy mechs to disarm and kill in the whole game.
Really? I never really lost any weapons in Solaris with the Argus... odd.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: headdie on July 29, 2009, 10:32:34 am
Dont forget the Thanatos and Argus, the easiest heavy mechs to disarm and kill in the whole game.
Really? I never really lost any weapons in Solaris with the Argus... odd.

first thing i always pick off (accident or deliberate) is that big week missile rack
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Demitri on July 29, 2009, 01:25:57 pm
MW4 was supposedly being re-released for free right? Anybody know when?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on July 29, 2009, 01:49:46 pm
Last thing I saw on the mektek.net forums said something about August.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 30, 2009, 02:44:07 pm
In MW4 the general layout seems to matter. I really like the Timberwolf (nee MadCat) but badguys seem to have no trouble "striping" it of weapons  :rolleyes:
Don't really have that problem with Hellbringer and Summoner.

One of the things you learn on Solaris in MW4: Mercs is that some designs can be rapidly disarmed. It's a key tactic dealing with certain designs like the Cauldron-Born and Sunder, who will otherwise take the opportunity to close and **** you up with heavy autocannons. Some of the Solaris customs are terribly vunerable to it to, like the Wolfhound.



Dont forget the Thanatos and Argus, the easiest heavy mechs to disarm and kill in the whole game.

Catapult ?

Oh and reinstalled MW3!
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 31, 2009, 03:13:46 am
Oh and reinstalled MW3!

If you make it work, let me know how. :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on July 31, 2009, 06:21:23 am
Just ran it in compatability-Windows2000 and it seems more or less ok.
Worked fine last time I ran it, back when i had a Geforce4MX.


edit: ah crap I'm getting occasional CTDs!  :sigh:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 31, 2009, 04:36:58 pm
Yeah. I took the full course recommended; forced refresh to 60, compatiblity to Win98, software render, but it still ctds on campaign sometimes.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Flaser on July 31, 2009, 06:38:46 pm
With Pirate's Moon though nothing short of virgin sacrifice seems to work...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 03, 2009, 03:17:07 am
In MW4 the general layout seems to matter. I really like the Timberwolf (nee MadCat) but badguys seem to have no trouble "striping" it of weapons  :rolleyes:
Don't really have that problem with Hellbringer and Summoner.
In general arms are quite easy to take out in MW4. My Timber Wolf had a dud arm that I used as a shield; I put higher than normal armour on it.

One of the things you learn on Solaris in MW4: Mercs is that some designs can be rapidly disarmed. It's a key tactic dealing with certain designs like the Cauldron-Born and Sunder, who will otherwise take the opportunity to close and **** you up with heavy autocannons. Some of the Solaris customs are terribly vunerable to it to, like the Wolfhound.
Tell me about it. Remove that ER-PPC and she's toast.


Dont forget the Thanatos and Argus, the easiest heavy mechs to disarm and kill in the whole game.
I agree on the Argus, but for the Thana, you're better off killing it rather than bothering to disarm it.

Catapult ?
Laughably easy to disarm, and annoyingly hard to arm, in my opinion. You have to know, however, I am not a big fan of missiles, rather preferring energy and ballistic weapons on my 'Mechs.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: headdie on August 03, 2009, 03:28:56 am
Laughably easy to disarm, and annoyingly hard to arm, in my opinion. You have to know, however, I am not a big fan of missiles, rather preferring energy and ballistic weapons on my 'Mechs.

I have to agree, LRMs take to long to lock on even with beagle SSRM are stupidly short range and MRM are feable
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: StarSlayer on August 03, 2009, 09:14:01 am
Funny enough I liked the Thanatos in MW4, it had nice utilitarian lines and I'd load it up with big gorram shotguns.  My late game lance generally fielded a PPCed up NovaCat acting as sniper, a LRM laden Mad Dog and a Thanatos and Summoner geared fro CQB.    I found this configuration to be pretty damn brutal against even the most powerful enemies.  That said I wasn't playing multi.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Wanderer on August 03, 2009, 09:41:37 am
Heh.. Twin LBX20s for some close quarters battle and - if enough tonnage / heat remains - couple of ER PPCs for initial spining / harassment. Didnt work that well in longer battles but did wonders in that 'trial of possession'. In solaris same concept with less PPCs and moar speed was teh funneh.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: headdie on August 03, 2009, 11:48:32 am
ERPPC the king of combat usable at any rang and massive damage even against an assault mech
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on August 03, 2009, 01:57:45 pm
ERPPC the king of combat usable at any rang and massive damage even against an assault mech

Too much heat.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on August 03, 2009, 02:22:59 pm
Well, maybe. It's pretty well-balanced with the Gauss Rifle. The Clan ER PPC arguably really is the king of the battlefield, though it's not as munchtastic as weapons like Clan Large Pulse Lasers and cLRM-20s.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on August 03, 2009, 02:50:33 pm
I like CLRM20s. Give the Catapult 4 of 'em and it's a great stand-off weapon. Better than the Vulture, I think.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on August 03, 2009, 03:12:50 pm
Well technically the Cat shouldn't be able to mount them at all. But, yes, the term 'munchtastic' refers to a weapon that in rules terms is arguably broken. the cLRM's lack of minimum range is a really big point in its favor.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on August 03, 2009, 03:21:11 pm
Well, maybe. It's pretty well-balanced with the Gauss Rifle. The Clan ER PPC arguably really is the king of the battlefield, though it's not as munchtastic as weapons like Clan Large Pulse Lasers and cLRM-20s.


I had the feeling the LRMs in MW4 have been toned down damge wise in comparison to MW3, which sucks.
In MW3 a full barrage of 40 missiles crippled every mech ( heavy upwards ) and destroyed everything smaller then a Bushwacker.
Granted the heat generated makes you vulnerable for a moment, but it's worth it unless the enemy is close enough to paint a smiley on the back of your Mech.

The UAC and LBX weapons have also been toned down, but this applys to almost every weapon in MW4.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Solaris i used a Cougar ( 2 C ER LLas, 2 C LRM - or 2 C SRM ) in the light class, a Uziel ( 2 C ER PPC, 1 C SRM ) or an Ryoken ( Kai Allard Liao config  :D ) in the medium class, a Thor ( 1 C UAC, 1 C ER PPC, 1 C SRM ) in the heavy and a Victor ( 1 C UAC 20, 2 C MPLas, 1 C SRM ) or a Daishi ( Prometheus config ) in the Assault class.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: headdie on August 03, 2009, 04:20:02 pm
whats everyone's opinion of best all purpose mechs

Personally

Light
Osiris

Medium
Uziel

Heavy
Loki

Assault
Mauler
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on August 03, 2009, 04:28:29 pm
Hrm. Puma, Ryoken/Stormcrow, Night Gyr and Warhawk for Clan. I'd love to be able to toss the Shadow Cat in there somewhere, though.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 03, 2009, 05:02:57 pm
I have a fondness for the Hauptmann because of its MW4 appearance; triple CERPPCs and a Gauss rifle, it was my standard Solaris assault and fought through most of the campaign with it. I frequently fielded an identical lance of them for my first lance. (Unfortunately, the AI knows who you are anyways...probably because it can detect your superb pathfinding compared to Mercs, which was oddly bad.)

As for the others wait classes, if we're not being solely inclusive of 'Mechs that have appeared in the MW Franchise, I sort of (http://www.tro42.com/wiki/index.php?title=SPXH-1O_Super_Phoenix_Hawk) built (http://www.tro42.com/wiki/index.php?title=Pulsar_PLS-5KH) my (http://www.tro42.com/wiki/index.php?title=SCRD-3R_Super_Crusader) own (http://www.tro42.com/wiki/index.php?title=STHE-N_Super_Thorn) ones (http://www.tro42.com/wiki/index.php?title=SSTG-3R_Super_Stinger).
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on August 03, 2009, 05:16:18 pm
Hornet, Uziel, Marauder/Timber Wolf and Marauder 2. Yeah, MechPaks are teh awesome.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on August 03, 2009, 07:00:19 pm
whats everyone's opinion of best all purpose mechs
*snip*


Well, for Solaris i use mostly the Mechs mentioned above, for actual missions i choose soemtimes other mechs.

My all purpose list ( MW2-4 )

light:

Cougar
Jenner
Firefly  ;7   ( some times i use this nasty little thingeven in later ( attack ) missions of MW3 vs much heavier mechs, not in escort missions,  though. With the right weapon loadout this can be a real heavy class killer )


medium:

Uziel
Nova
Centurion ( Yen Lo Wang FTW )

heavy:

Mad Cat
Thor
Black Knight
Orion
Marauder

assault:

Victor
Templar
Gladiator
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on August 03, 2009, 07:50:05 pm
Well, for Solaris i use mostly the Mechs mentioned above, for actual missions i choose soemtimes other mechs.

My all purpose list ( MW2-4 )

light:

Cougar
Jenner
Firefly  ;7   ( some times i use this nasty little thingeven in later ( attack ) missions of MW3 vs much heavier mechs, not in escort missions,  though. With the right weapon loadout this can be a real heavy class killer )


medium:

Uziel
Nova (oddly enough, you got this one right)
Centurion ( Yen Lo Wang FTW )

heavy:

Mad Cat Timberwolf
Thor Summoner
Black Knight
Orion
Marauder

assault:

Victor
Templar
Gladiator Executioner


Figured I would fix this up since most of the choices are mine as well.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on August 03, 2009, 08:42:57 pm
whats everyone's opinion of best all purpose mechs

Personally

Light
Osiris

Medium
Uziel

Heavy
Loki

Assault
Mauler

I'd put Thor above Loki for heavy, and for assault, I think I'd put something like the Sunder or Hauptmann above the Mauler.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on August 03, 2009, 08:44:59 pm
Quote
I'd put Thor Summoner above Loki Hellbringer for heavy, and for assault, I think I'd put something like the Sunder or Hauptmann above the Mauler.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 03, 2009, 08:50:24 pm
For Solaris I use heavily modified versions of:

Light:
Adder

Medium:
Uziel
Bushwacker
Stormcrow
Shadowcat
Hellhound

Heavy:
Summoner
Timber Wolf
Hellbringer
Black Knight
Thanatos

Assault:
Fafnir
Templar
Dire Wolf
Hauptmann

In missions, I normally reserve three for my personal use, a Hellhound, Timber Wolf and a Dire Wolf, and sometimes a Mad Cat Mk II. The Hellhound I replace the ER Large Lasers with ER Mediums, making it run cooler and freeing up tonnage for extra ammo. For my Timber Wolf I drop the MG arrays, empty one arm, and place a ER-PPC in the other, then use the dud arm as a shield, with extra armor on it to boot. The Dire Wolf carries twin Ultra AC-20 (100 rounds each), four ER Smalls, and a LRM-15/SSRM6 rack. The Mk II is usually stock.

For all purpose ... I'd say the Puma for light. She has three slot spaces in bother arms, which are Omni racks to boot, letting her really switch her load out. She's not normally fast, but tonnage to engines solves that, while she can't jump, she makes up for it in her wide array of available weaponry.

Medium, I agree with you on the Uziel. Fast, versatile, can jump, respectable turn speed. I just dislike its reliance on energy weapons. I'd put the Shadow Cat here with it. Plenty of space for weapons, and the Cat can still move, though it is more fragile.

On the heavy front, I think the three Clan ones, the Summoner, Hellbringer and the Timber Wolf, are evenly matched, though the Summoner pulls up slightly ahead in its ability to jump.

As for the big boys ... I think the Hauptmann wins. It moves faster than the Dire Wolf, for marginally less protection, and can generally equal it for guns. My favorite variant has a Heavy Gauss and ER-PPCs, backed up by a trio of ER Small Lasers and a Streak 6.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: headdie on August 04, 2009, 09:25:01 am
whats everyone's opinion of best all purpose mechs

Personally

Light
Osiris

Medium
Uziel

Heavy
Loki

Assault
Mauler

I'd put Thor above Loki for heavy, and for assault, I think I'd put something like the Sunder or Hauptmann above the Mauler.

for the I mauler strip out all the weapons, replace with 4/6 Ultra ACs 2 and 5 with 4 ERMDL, 2 headsinks, FF armour and LAMS knocking down the engine by one level for assault/defence, escort i keep the engine but stripping out the AC5s and increasing the heatsinks and ammo count
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: StarSlayer on August 04, 2009, 10:59:07 am
I think a pair of the odder urban combat configurations I tried out were

Thanatos armed with the Long Tom Artillery cannon that I used in CQB, you needed to be careful of the splash damage but boy did it pack a wallop.

An extremely cheap asshat configuration of loading a Timber Wolf to the gunwales with Clan Flame Throwers, heat sinks and a single laser. I'd charge up to a target roast him till he shut down and then slowly pick away with the laser, when he started to come back online I'd cook him into submission again and keep lasering him rinse, wash and repeat.  Bonus points for choosing the most garish camo scheme possible.

Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on August 04, 2009, 12:19:49 pm
I tried only once a Thanatos with a Long Tom in Black Knight, in the mission were you have to wait for an enemy convoy on a higher position. It was nice, until my Lance mates decided it's time to leave this world under friendly fire.

In MW3 and 4, the AI has the stupid behaviour, to fight the enemy always in close quarter combat, even if only armed with long range missiles ( Longbow, for LR support customized Vulture ), which isn't always a good idea, especially if the enemy mech has 30 tons more and a devastating short range firepower ( Hauptmann, Gladiator ).
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: headdie on August 04, 2009, 02:39:44 pm
Rotary ACs in pairs take down enemies quickly when backed up by other weapons for when they jam
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on August 04, 2009, 02:41:03 pm
I personally enjoyed the UACs.  Quick rate of fire, but they also don't jam near as much.

I put four of them (UAC2s) on a Dire Wolf and took it to Solaris.  I kicked Solaris' ass.

EDIT:  Wow, how long is this thread going to go?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: StarSlayer on August 04, 2009, 02:50:07 pm
Till the game comes out and everyone has sated their thirst for the blood of DCAF DCMS mechwarriors?


fixed For Great Justice
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on August 04, 2009, 02:56:08 pm
Warrior House Battuta wishes the Capellans were in the game.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on August 04, 2009, 03:05:50 pm
Shivans blew them up. :(
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on August 04, 2009, 03:09:44 pm
Bahahaha.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on August 04, 2009, 03:20:06 pm
There can't be any Shivans in the Inner Sphere. Clan Mongoose makes sure of that.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mongoose on August 04, 2009, 03:28:25 pm
We do what now?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on August 04, 2009, 03:39:04 pm
Warrior House Battuta wishes the Capellans were in the game.

The Clan of Angelic Warriors hails the honorable Warrior House Battuta and hopes that this wish comes true, for the sake of the entire Inner Sphere.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on August 04, 2009, 03:40:40 pm
MechWarrior Scotty of the Jade Falcons too laments being excluded from the game.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Angelus on August 04, 2009, 03:42:56 pm
MechWarrior Scotty of the Jade Falcons too laments being excluded from the game.

You don't have a Bloodname yet?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 04, 2009, 03:44:31 pm
He'll probably get one when MekTek finishes releasing MW4 to the public.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on August 04, 2009, 03:48:49 pm
Haven't played any games besides a pick-up L1 tech with my brother.  That's it.

Bloodname will come soon enough.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 04, 2009, 06:04:28 pm
That's what you think.

The Pesht Armored Cavalry looks forward to the chance to kill many inept player characters.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on August 04, 2009, 06:08:58 pm
Huh?  Pesht Armored Cavalry?  I thought there was only the Pesht Regulars.

Also:  I already have MW4.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 04, 2009, 06:11:37 pm
Huh?  Pesht Armored Cavalry?  I thought there was only the Pesht Regulars.


I build 'Mechs, I build semi-almost-merc units. I have to call my complete RCT and transport/aerospace support of minis something and I'm not terribly fond of the FedCom anymore. :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 04, 2009, 06:32:48 pm
Also:  I already have MW4.
I was referring to the fact that lots of people are going to end up playing MW4 when it gets released for free, and you are going to be blowing them up in the name of Clan Jade Falcon and earn your bloodname that way.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on August 04, 2009, 06:38:25 pm
Do I need to post what the Trial of Bloodright is so you know how Clanners actually get Bloodnames?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 05, 2009, 05:38:37 am
I used to design 'Mechs. But since I was a kid they were terribly overpowered.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Wanderer on August 05, 2009, 04:38:49 pm
Its DCMS... not DCAF...


In any case.. managed finally to play a bit of both mc1 and mc2 couple od days back... Just awesome.. especially MC1... effects - even small - were just like taken from the MechWarrior 2 Mercenaries intro... Age has been far less kind to MC2 than to MC1 imo.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on August 05, 2009, 04:52:03 pm
Yeah, MC1 looked a lot better. Go sprites.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on August 05, 2009, 05:13:03 pm
What's frustrating regarding MC2 is that although Microsoft has released the source code to it, there is no SCP-like development/improvement effort going on, which is just a shame, really.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 06, 2009, 03:27:00 am
There was an established mod community before the freespace source was released. The freespace 2  engine was a dream to work with before the source came out also. . .
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Starman01 on August 06, 2009, 09:41:33 am
There has even been an unofficial patch for MC2 made by people using the sourcecode. I should have it laying around on one my backup DVD's. I don't know what it features all, but at least it came with a quite a number of NEW vehicles and even mechs. But it was hard to use in the editor, because the new entries didn't receive proper names. Still some amazing stuff in it.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on August 06, 2009, 09:50:12 am
I saw that and installed it as well, but still....The engine is pretty limited and quirky, at least on my system.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Starman01 on August 06, 2009, 09:53:02 am
Yes, the ingame look is unfortunately still pretty dull. It's just like a miniaturized version of the MW4 engine (and probably really is). Unfortunately no one (including me) get the idea of making a simple texture patch for the boring ground texture, that would have already enhanced it quite a lot IMO
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 06, 2009, 07:46:16 pm
In any case.. managed finally to play a bit of both mc1 and mc2 couple od days back... Just awesome.. especially MC1... effects - even small - were just like taken from the MechWarrior 2 Mercenaries intro... Age has been far less kind to MC2 than to MC1 imo.
MC1's Timber Wolf was probably one of the most feared 'Mechs of the game, 2nd to the Warhawk. Sadly, in MC2, the Timber Wolf isn't nearly as impressive, and the Warhawk was no where to be seen.

There has even been an unofficial patch for MC2 made by people using the sourcecode. I should have it laying around on one my backup DVD's. I don't know what it features all, but at least it came with a quite a number of NEW vehicles and even mechs. But it was hard to use in the editor, because the new entries didn't receive proper names. Still some amazing stuff in it.
I think I remember that one. Added Jenners and the lot, didn't it?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 06, 2009, 09:17:51 pm
There were several unofficial patches. Wolfman-X's had absolutely nothing to do with the BattleTech franchise, so they were largely ignored by the community. Magic released his Unofficial Expansion, which added a lot of new 'Mechs and tanks as well as another campaign, but was inordinately difficult.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 07, 2009, 02:31:50 am
Yea, that was the one you intro'd to me, NGTM-1R. I had quite a lot of fun once I got it to work, though I agree that it became very much more difficult.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: StarSlayer on August 07, 2009, 10:00:50 am
Heh IGN had a top twenty five PC Games list, Mech Warrior 2 31st Century Combat came in ninth.  Anyway they had a shot of the old box cover, and even today it still looks completely *****in'

(http://www.mobygames.com/images/covers/large/1074613272-00.jpg)  

http://pc.ign.com/articles/101/1011624p1.html (http://pc.ign.com/articles/101/1011624p1.html)


-fixed image For Great Justice
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 07, 2009, 11:07:04 am
... Fortune City web hosting?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 14, 2009, 12:27:06 am
They lost the rights for the Macross/Robotech Unseen again.

**** THIS ****
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 14, 2009, 11:28:16 am
Didn't they just get them back very recently?  How did they lose them?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 14, 2009, 07:54:20 pm
Court settlement from the 90s had secret provisions apparently. :(
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on August 14, 2009, 08:03:07 pm
Macross guys hate us using their designs on our games.
Oh well, time to change the timeline and bring back the Mad Cat / Timberwolf. :P
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: JGZinv on September 03, 2009, 11:13:16 pm
If this wasn't already posted... Harmony is after people's heads again threatening legal
action over their designs.


http://kotaku.com/5352295/mechwarrior-5-runs-into-legal-trouble


Can't we all just get along like Another Century's Episode and blow each other up
using co-op?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 04, 2009, 12:03:04 am
**** you, Harmony Gold.

FUCCCKKK YOOOOOUUUU!
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 04, 2009, 12:52:49 am
They're suing now over the Warhammer?? The Warhammer is a pretty famous 'Mech...
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on September 05, 2009, 12:01:04 am
Notice that they're only suing IGN, and not over the Warhammer specifically.

Aaaaannnd, thread resurrected to serve a new purpose.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 05, 2009, 12:45:07 am
What are they suing IGN over?  Showing off videos?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on September 05, 2009, 12:51:12 am
The Warhammer, so far as I know. Which is dumb, it's the Reseen one.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 05, 2009, 01:03:11 am
Yeah but, what are their grounds for a lawsuit?  Anyone know why they are suing IGN over the Warhammer?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on September 05, 2009, 01:06:23 am
Uh, wait, you don't know about the whole Unseen business?

The Warhammer was originally the Tomahawk from Macross/Robotech, which Harmony Gold owns the US rights to. FASA had access to the design by a different (legal) road, but something got confused, and it became illegal.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 05, 2009, 01:34:42 am
The legality of it is actually unclear, AFAIK, as it has never actually been hashed out in court.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 05, 2009, 06:43:16 am
Iirc, it was an out-of-court settlement?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 05, 2009, 12:49:17 pm
Yes, which sets no precedent for further rulings.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 05, 2009, 01:26:20 pm
I heard about BattleTech's Macross origins only recently, so I'm not that knowledgeable about the situation.  I do know that certain BattleMech's are basically ripoffs of certain Macross mecha.  My number one question is, why IGN over the Warhammer?  Why are they suing IGN over it and not Smith & Tinker?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on September 05, 2009, 01:28:49 pm
That's not completely the Unseen Warhammer.  There have been some artistic license changes to it, methinks.  I wouldn't doubt it if IGN/S&T/whoever's getting sued wins, actually.  Not likely, of course, but I wouldn't really be surprised.

Hey, where'd the spellcheck button go?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 05, 2009, 11:56:12 pm
Hey, where'd the spellcheck button go?
Got left behind on the old server. :p
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 09, 2009, 03:46:21 pm
My little bro turned 17 on the 9th (monday) and i ordered him MW4 Vengeance + Black knight expansion as well as MW4 Mercs (although 2 owns it).


It arrived yesterday and he's never been more bloody annoying. I've never seen a Ffafnir, we had a lan game yesterday and he proceeded to space-rape my Uziel :(
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: BloodEagle on September 09, 2009, 05:05:53 pm
Isn't MW4 freeware, now?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 10, 2009, 11:07:36 am
Last I heard, yes.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 10, 2009, 04:04:36 pm
I got bored of checking to be honest. This way my bro's got the CDs too. (bless, CDs :lol:) too.

Uziel still my favourite. Dunno what all this mek pack crap is though.... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on September 10, 2009, 04:11:28 pm
New mechs, and a few gameplay enhancements, as well as working online multiplayer.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 10, 2009, 04:16:15 pm
I only LAN it when i'm "allowed :lol:" to borrow his cd. The bloody git's only had the thing 3 days....
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 10, 2009, 08:23:59 pm
New mechs, and a few gameplay enhancements, as well as working online multiplayer.
Kinda miffed I couldn't use them in Mercenaries, though.

Uziel was my favorite medium 'Mech too, as well as the Hellhound.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on September 10, 2009, 08:31:54 pm
Hellhound for the win!
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on September 10, 2009, 10:40:00 pm
Cougar, **** year.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Stormkeeper on September 10, 2009, 11:10:57 pm
My Uziel will eat your Cougar
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: General Battuta on September 10, 2009, 11:37:18 pm
Hellhound for the win!

While I think the MW4 Hellhound is the best mech in the game (in Mercs, that is), it's definitely not a Hellhound.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on September 11, 2009, 06:33:29 am
Neither is the Chimera (a Chimera, I mean), and probably half a dozen other 'Mechs.  The Chimera, I know for sure, is 5 tons too heavy.  The others don't mount canon schemes or schemes that even COULD be canon.  Then again, those things can mount so much damned armor it's not like it matters.

On the realism (:ha:) scale, it goes BattleTech ---> MechWarrior ---> MechAssault.  I'm hoping the new one leans a little closer the BattleTech than the last one did.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on September 11, 2009, 08:42:40 am
My Uziel will eat your Cougar

The Cougar would probably like that.


So where's this MW4 freeware I hear about???
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on September 11, 2009, 09:09:13 am
Not out yet. Go to mektek.net to get the latest news. They're currently working on getting an online installer/matchmaking/updating prog running. They will release it real soon nowTM.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Enzo03 on September 12, 2009, 09:25:23 am
Answers are Coming!(R)

Actually, they have already come, except for the ACTUAL RELEASE DATE.
Here's the thing: Don't go running off to piratebay for a copy of the game just yet, simply because they said "oh hey we get to give this out to you guys so here, but you gotta wait".
It won't work that way. Only the version Mektek is going to release will be authorized as the free release...

Hopefully it isn't news to anyone.

Also, regarding the Mechwarrior reboot's legal issues... I have found a post that may be a bit disturbing for some unseen fans such as I:
Quote from: Gwarsbane, on the Mektek Forums,
I'm closing down this thread because you guys just don't seem to understand.


HG has all the proper international legal rights to stop any company (or any one in general if they wanted) from using those designs anywhere around the world (except Japan, because thats where another company has the rights).


Just because the court case happened in Japan doesn't mean its limited to Japan. The actual owner of the images just happens to live in Japan, thats where HG had to go to get the rights for those images, though they don't have exclusive rights as there is another company involved and thats who FASA went to. Thats where FASA went to go get the rights to use those same designs. But they should have talked to both HG and the other company at the same time about the international/North American rights to those images, but they didn't. HG took FASA to court for using their internationally legally protected images to make a profit. HG won because of they legally did everything right. FASA lost because, while they tried to do everything right, they only went to one company and that company gave them rights they were not legally able to give them.

What HG did this time around, was legally everything they were suppose to do. When they seen the warhammer walking around in that trailer they sent out C&D letters to everyone involved, including those hosting the videos, and those who made the video.

The image/design of the mech is a lot like the HG image/design. I've heard many numbers over the years on how much an image can change before its considered original, 30% 40% 50%. I don't know what the actual number is but to me, and untrained eye, that designed looked very close to the HG image/design and HG thought so too and since all the legal stuff had not been cleared as we had all thought it was, HG is doing what is legally allowed to protect their legally owned internationally protected copyright on those images.


Like it or not, HG is legally allowed to do what they are doing. They are protecting their legally protected international copyright on those image/designs.


What does this mean for the future of the unseen? I don't know, my hope is that everyone that needs to be involved can sit down and talk and reach an agreement that would make everyone money and even better, make the fans of the unseen very happy.



And on a side note, no they don't own the rights to those names so, S&T could use radically new and different designs with those names and no one could say anything about it.
http://www.mektek.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=140841&pid=1161063&mode=threaded&start=100#entry1161063

Not that it is what I agree with or would like to mention. Some people still want to argue, so they made another thread (which will probably be locked)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on September 13, 2009, 11:14:58 am
What's Harmony Gold's problem. Are they making any money off these designs? Selling some DVDs of an 80s cartoon. Granted there was Shadow Chronicles but that was pretty lackluster. Dunno if they're doing more.

Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mongoose on September 13, 2009, 01:45:29 pm
The real great part about it is that all Harmony Gold owns are the rights to a heavily-edited mash-up of three different animated series, none of which it created in the first place.  And because of that, they're able to somehow prevent completely-unrelated shows like Macross Frontier from being feasibly licensed over here, or sue over a random mech design in a game.  It's wonderful how rights ownership works, innit?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on September 13, 2009, 03:13:16 pm
The real great part about it is that all Harmony Gold owns are the rights to a heavily-edited mash-up of three different animated series, none of which it created in the first place.  And because of that, they're able to somehow prevent completely-unrelated shows like Macross Frontier from being feasibly licensed over here, or sue over a random mech design in a game.  It's wonderful how rights ownership works, innit?

Doesn't Macross Frontier use new designs? I assume they don't have SDF-1s and VF-1s and VF-1Ses etcertera in there so why would they have any rights? I don't get it. Though knowing Macross, they probably through in a Mac Monster in there just for the fans to drool over (ie me).

Another thing I don't get is that Macross II the movie and Macross the original series are both here. Hell so is Southern Cross and Mospeada. I know. I own them all. So what's the difference.



I know on Classic battletech .com there was some big "yah we're getting the unseens back! booya!" kinda thing going on but I figrued it wasn't going to happen anywhere and apparently I was right.

Though with this video game. How a company can develop a game totally and use old designs without getting permission first is baffling to me. It's like developing a Star Wars game without the rights.



Also notable is that Classic Battletech does jhave "reseen" art for these old designs which look similar enough to probably appease the fans in the video game. So why they can't use these I don't know. Same difference.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 13, 2009, 09:30:15 pm
And because of that, they're able to somehow prevent completely-unrelated shows like Macross Frontier from being feasibly licensed over here, or sue over a random mech design in a game.

Frontier would be impossible to license (for dubbing, at least) over the music, not Harmony Gold.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mongoose on September 13, 2009, 10:21:04 pm
And because of that, they're able to somehow prevent completely-unrelated shows like Macross Frontier from being feasibly licensed over here, or sue over a random mech design in a game.

Frontier would be impossible to license (for dubbing, at least) over the music, not Harmony Gold.
Ah, that's right, I'd heard something about that as well.  I'd imagine that Harmony Gold wouldn't make things any easier, though.

Doesn't Macross Frontier use new designs? I assume they don't have SDF-1s and VF-1s and VF-1Ses etcertera in there so why would they have any rights? I don't get it. Though knowing Macross, they probably through in a Mac Monster in there just for the fans to drool over (ie me).

Another thing I don't get is that Macross II the movie and Macross the original series are both here. Hell so is Southern Cross and Mospeada. I know. I own them all. So what's the difference.
From what I understand of the situation, it has nothing at all to do with specific designs, but instead with the copyright of Macross as a franchise.  Harmony Gold apparently retains the US sub-license of the original Macross series due to its role in Robotech, and so any domestic license of a Macross series would have to take place with their agreement.  ADV's release of the original Macross is in partnership with Harmony Gold, and I'd assume that Manga Entertainment had to work with them to license Macross II and Macross Plus.  The issue's also complicated by the various Japanese companies that hold partial rights to the series.  This Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macross_Zero#English_release_possibilities) for Macross Zero mentions some of the complexities; I'd imagine the same circumstances apply to Macross 7 and Macross Frontier.  Combine those issues with the possible financial infeasibility of paying Harmony Gold to release anything over here, and it's small wonder why we haven't seen more Macross domestically.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on September 14, 2009, 03:07:01 am
From what I understand of the situation, it has nothing at all to do with specific designs, but instead with the copyright of Macross as a franchise.  Harmony Gold apparently retains the US sub-license of the original Macross series due to its role in Robotech, and so any domestic license of a Macross series would have to take place with their agreement.  ADV's release of the original Macross is in partnership with Harmony Gold, and I'd assume that Manga Entertainment had to work with them to license Macross II and Macross Plus.  The issue's also complicated by the various Japanese companies that hold partial rights to the series.  This Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macross_Zero#English_release_possibilities) for Macross Zero mentions some of the complexities; I'd imagine the same circumstances apply to Macross 7 and Macross Frontier.  Combine those issues with the possible financial infeasibility of paying Harmony Gold to release anything over here, and it's small wonder why we haven't seen more Macross domestically.

I still want to see a DVD of Macross: DYRL. The movie adaptation of the original series.
The only version I saw had 30 minutes cut out, and was dubbed by someone who learned English as a second language.  

It was awful.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Roanoke on September 18, 2009, 05:41:37 pm
Most of the late 80s/early 90s anime redubs, at least uk releases, were terrible.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 31, 2011, 05:01:29 pm
For those of you not in the Hard Light IRC channel, this game is now a F2P MMO.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/31/meet-mechwarrior-online-piranhas-free-to-play-tactical-mech-sim/ (http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/31/meet-mechwarrior-online-piranhas-free-to-play-tactical-mech-sim/)
http://mwomercs.com/news/2011/10/2-dev-blog-0 (http://mwomercs.com/news/2011/10/2-dev-blog-0)
Basically all the publishers told them "no" when they tried to do a typical MechWarrior game, so they're stuck doing a F2P MMO.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Polpolion on October 31, 2011, 05:03:26 pm
aww ****
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: LHN91 on October 31, 2011, 05:10:22 pm
Some of the game mechanics look relatively well thought out, so it may prove to have some saving graces. But my expectations now are an extremely small step up from none.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on October 31, 2011, 05:41:33 pm
Eh, some F2P MMOs are decent enough that I keep playing them.

Especially if they're not MMORPGs.  World of Tanks and Lol/HoN spring to mind immediately.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Nuke on October 31, 2011, 05:57:50 pm
at least they aren't charging a subscription fee. its sad that its not gonna be a single player game though.

the fact that joystick support is touted as a premium feature these days rather annoys me. and when they do add it its shoddy at best. i mean seriously its not a whole lot of code. its not hard to write. ****!
trackir support would be awesome too. if i can hackishly get it to work in mw2, which came out at least a decade before the trackir ever existed, then they should support it.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mongoose on October 31, 2011, 06:21:05 pm
Eh, some F2P MMOs are decent enough that I keep playing them.

Especially if they're not MMORPGs.  World of Tanks and Lol/HoN spring to mind immediately.
Spiral Knights is a fun little free-to-play game too.  I downloaded it just to get a TF2 hat and wound up playing it regularly.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Patriot on November 01, 2011, 01:56:14 pm
Guys, think World of Tanks when you think of how this game will generally work.

basically a few lances per team(judging by the latest interview on pcgamer) go head to head in either Deathmatch style games(Be it TDM, FFADM or Duelling) or Conquest, which can be described as what Battlefield's main gamestyle is(cap objectives, hold em)

The premium stuff system ought to be a little like WoT, cause in previously mentioned interview(link at end of post btw), it was said that Mechs would also be available as premium(although this may be a misread on my part). And WoT doesn't have premium tanks that are per sé overpowered, the player makes it so, or doesn't xD.

Only thing not lined out is how exactly you are progressing in terms of pilot lvl, only thing mentioned is that players that play scout mechs in general get more(or should choose more, again, a misread is possible) skills that are geared towards such mechs, and such is true for Assault/Heavy/Med drivers.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/31/mechwarrior-online-developers-share-details-explain-how-mwo-evolves-the-series/
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Turambar on November 01, 2011, 02:52:49 pm
Wow, they somehow manage to make me increasingly less interested.  How do you start with giant walking robots with guns and end up making me less interested.  I think someone broke reality.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on November 01, 2011, 03:44:43 pm
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/31/mechwarrior-online-developers-share-details-explain-how-mwo-evolves-the-series/
Well, based on these two points:
Quote
Let’s talk about what MechWarrior Online is going to be. The first question on my mind as I read this press release is that, honestly, when I think MechWarrior, I’m thinking of, well, MechWarrior 2 through MechWarrior 4. Is MWO in that vein?

Creative Director Bryan Ekman: Yeah, absolutely. From a gameplay point of view, it’s the online component of those games. It’s match-based gameplay. So you go in, you fight, and you come out. So in that sense, it’s absolutely true to the heritage. The way you control the Mech, and the way the Mech works, and the options available to you during gameplay are inspired by Mech 2 through 4. Anybody who has played those games will feel right at home playing MWO.
Quote
OK. Does that mean it’s going to be in a Mech cockpit, playing from the first person?

BE: That’s right
I think I can live with this for now. If they say it plays like MW2 to MW4, in First-Person, then I would assume the customization and simulation (Detailed damage system) side of the gameplay would be implemented as well.
If that aspect remains, then it's safe to say that I'll still try this. Make it anything like MechAssault though, I won't touch it.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Nuke on November 01, 2011, 04:11:15 pm
it actually sounds like they are using the gameplay style used by mwll, but on a larger more epic scale.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: BlueFlames on November 01, 2011, 05:46:10 pm
My question is how this will be monetized.  "Free-to-play" rarely means what the phrase suggests.  I'm guessing that the mech customization is going to be hamstrung for those of us who don't appreciate being nickle-and-dimed to death.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 01, 2011, 07:36:26 pm
Insert long, draw-out "****" here.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: IronBeer on November 01, 2011, 08:57:01 pm
Insert long, draw-out "****" here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKss2uYpih8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKss2uYpih8)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mikes on November 02, 2011, 07:04:59 am
at least they aren't charging a subscription fee. its sad that its not gonna be a single player game though.

While subscription games are usually often at fault for incorporation huge amounts of grind for "rewards" in order to keep people playing... MMOs not requiring a subscription fee are usually/often even worse, as these games almost always seriously compromise gameplay in order to make it necessary (or at least heavily entice you) to use some kind of ingame store.

i.e.: With a very few exceptions pretty much all socalled "free to play" games are sadly just some kind of money making scheme built around an ingame store that preys on your wish to compete/be successful in game.

Matter of fact... if the developper does not explicitly state and advertise that such a store will only be for "cosmetic items" and will not offer any tangible gameplay "benefits" ingame... you can be pretty much certain that the whole idea of the game is very much that you are required to spend oggles of cash on ingame items to avoid being utterly ineffective. If it's a smart developper you can also count on that fact not being easily apparent while you start the game (i.e. in the low lvl game)... only later in the mid/high levels, when you are emotionally invested... i.e. when the game got its hooks in you...  it will make you throw cash at so you can "progress" further... and often you will happily do so! :p Nothing easier to exploit than the human psyche heh.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on November 02, 2011, 01:22:23 pm
WOrld of Tanks manages to avoid that trap quite handily.  It's no doubt very much easier to advance with a (paid for) premium account, but hardly necessary.  Indeed the premium account only speeds the grind, and does nothing tangible to gameplay.  Premium tanks are only as good as the people who use them, and truth be told, I look forward to engaging such "wallet warriors" because more often than not, they're significantly worse players than their same-tier kin without a premium tank.  Exceptions exist, and frequently, but not enough to make me dread going against a premium tank in a tank that's a tier or two (out of ten) lower, let alone the same tier.

The only real hands down performance bonuses are premium ammo and consumables, which are typically left to the realm of Clan Wars, where the payout for controlling territory is the in-game currency used to pay for premium ammo and consumables.  Indeed, said bonuses are left out of random battles for the most part entirely.  The need to spend actual (or won) money on the equipment pretty much kills any desire to use it where you can't earn back enough to buy it again (random battles give no gold).  That, and there's a huge stigma attached to using something like that in a random battle on a purely sportsmanship level.

tl;dr, it's not that bad.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Nuke on November 02, 2011, 01:25:34 pm
at least they aren't charging a subscription fee. its sad that its not gonna be a single player game though.

While subscription games are usually often at fault for incorporation huge amounts of grind for "rewards" in order to keep people playing... MMOs not requiring a subscription fee are usually/often even worse, as these games almost always seriously compromise gameplay in order to make it necessary (or at least heavily entice you) to use some kind of ingame store.

i.e.: With a very few exceptions pretty much all socalled "free to play" games are sadly just some kind of money making scheme built around an ingame store that preys on your wish to compete/be successful in game.

Matter of fact... if the developper does not explicitly state and advertise that such a store will only be for "cosmetic items" and will not offer any tangible gameplay "benefits" ingame... you can be pretty much certain that the whole idea of the game is very much that you are required to spend oggles of cash on ingame items to avoid being utterly ineffective. If it's a smart developper you can also count on that fact not being easily apparent while you start the game (i.e. in the low lvl game)... only later in the mid/high levels, when you are emotionally invested... i.e. when the game got its hooks in you...  it will make you throw cash at so you can "progress" further... and often you will happily do so! :p Nothing easier to exploit than the human psyche heh.

if thats what they plan to do then i will just keep playing living legends. my annual budget for games is roughly $100. on a good year i buy 2 games, and i only bought 1 game this year (and that was starcraft 2). if they make me exceed this, i just wont buy their game.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mikes on November 02, 2011, 04:56:43 pm
WOrld of Tanks manages to avoid that trap quite handily.  It's no doubt very much easier to advance with a (paid for) premium account, but hardly necessary.  Indeed the premium account only speeds the grind, and does nothing tangible to gameplay.  Premium tanks are only as good as the people who use them, and truth be told, I look forward to engaging such "wallet warriors" because more often than not, they're significantly worse players than their same-tier kin without a premium tank.  Exceptions exist, and frequently, but not enough to make me dread going against a premium tank in a tank that's a tier or two (out of ten) lower, let alone the same tier.

As said above, there are exceptions, the huge majority of socalled "free to play" games is however outright atroxious.

WOT may or may not be as aggressive as others (I don't play it myself)... but basically they still a) include grind in the game and b) allow you to avoid that grind through $$$ and give out (I would guess appealing?) special tanks for $$$.

Depending on the amount of grind/amount of cash that they require I can see how people wouldn't care all that much about it... but it's still a rather ugly concept to begin with and I wouldn't be surprised if they later on add über guns für $$$ anyways. Certainly wouldn't be the first game to do it, once management/devs decide to milk it for what its worth.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on November 02, 2011, 05:06:05 pm
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: headdie on November 02, 2011, 05:41:47 pm
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).

indeed weapons are balanced for different situations.

Ballistic/missile weapons generally have longer range and respectable damage but are ammo based

energy weapons are balanced between refire rate and damage, dont have ammo limits but cook your mech fast if you are not careful.

Rail guns are excellent sniper weapons but have very low ammo counts and long cycling times.  ERPPC are a workable alternative but will overheat you fast.

there are also mid and close range specialising weapons.

another thing to take into account is mech weight class and its weaponry arrangement.  the weapons i listed are massive, the rail cannons in their heaviest form can often only be mounted once per heavy/assault mech if you want to avoid overspecialisation and the ERPPC you are looking at 3-4 max on said mechs but you will be punished on heat with that configuration.

another thing is if Scotty is right about it being pre clan era (i am not to hot on the exact time line) then all mechs have very restricted loadouts with each bank of weapons limited to what weapon types they can mount in each slot (ballistic, energy or missile).  if we get to the clan invasion era then Omni tech gets involved but that is another discussion.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SypheDMar on November 02, 2011, 06:07:57 pm
In two years, prepare for the Clan Invasion.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: headdie on November 02, 2011, 07:08:51 pm
In two years, prepare for the Clan Invasion.

excelent, time to get slaughtered.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Al-Rik on November 02, 2011, 07:56:41 pm
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).

indeed weapons are balanced for different situations.

Have you ever played the Boardgame ?  :D

Forget all Weapons besides the Medium Lasers. Best Ratio of Damage (5/6/7) to Heat (3/4/5) to Tonnage (1/2/1). Stats for MediumLaser/Medium Pulse Laser/Clan ER-Medium Laser.
The low Range of 3/6/9 Hexes (Medium Laser) is not a problem because the limited Battlefield in the Boardgame.

All other Weapons, especially the   Autocannons and Missles have much lower damage for higher tonnage and heat.
Example:
SRM 2: 2 missiles, if both hit 2x2 Points of Damage. It generates 2 points of Heat, weight is 1 ton for the launcher and 1 ton for the ammo (50 Salvos). In 60% only 1 missile hits causing 2 points of damage.
A medium laser does 5 Points of damage, has a weight of 1 ton, and needs no ammo. Yes, it makes 1 point more heat, but thats not a problem because each mech has at least 10 heat sinks.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: headdie on November 02, 2011, 08:13:29 pm
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).

indeed weapons are balanced for different situations.

Have you ever played the Boardgame ?  :D

Forget all Weapons besides the Medium Lasers. Best Ratio of Damage (5/6/7) to Heat (3/4/5) to Tonnage (1/2/1). Stats for MediumLaser/Medium Pulse Laser/Clan ER-Medium Laser.
The low Range of 3/6/9 Hexes (Medium Laser) is not a problem because the limited Battlefield in the Boardgame.

All other Weapons, especially the   Autocannons and Missles have much lower damage for higher tonnage and heat.
Example:
SRM 2: 2 missiles, if both hit 2x2 Points of Damage. It generates 2 points of Heat, weight is 1 ton for the launcher and 1 ton for the ammo (50 Salvos). In 60% only 1 missile hits causing 2 points of damage.
A medium laser does 5 Points of damage, has a weight of 1 ton, and needs no ammo. Yes, it makes 1 point more heat, but thats not a problem because each mech has at least 10 heat sinks.

admittedly my comments are based on the computer games, MW4 and MC, ( MW 3 though played dont count when discussing the rules because i think they threw the rule book out the window for that one ) where range is a factor and I have noticed some discrepancy presumably for balance reasons between them and stats i have seen between games and looking on sarna.net
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scourge of Ages on November 02, 2011, 08:34:05 pm
I think even in the computer games, medium lasers were that good. Not as satisfying as heavys or ERPPCs, but you can fit so many that they pack almost the same punch.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 02, 2011, 08:34:46 pm
Komodo and/or Nova Prime 4lyfe

Also ahahahaha MW3 threw the rulebook out the window. No. It actually adhered to it significantly more closely than MW4 did.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on November 02, 2011, 10:26:49 pm
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).

indeed weapons are balanced for different situations.

Have you ever played the Boardgame ?  :D

Forget all Weapons besides the Medium Lasers. Best Ratio of Damage (5/6/7) to Heat (3/4/5) to Tonnage (1/2/1). Stats for MediumLaser/Medium Pulse Laser/Clan ER-Medium Laser.
The low Range of 3/6/9 Hexes (Medium Laser) is not a problem because the limited Battlefield in the Boardgame.

All other Weapons, especially the   Autocannons and Missles have much lower damage for higher tonnage and heat.
Example:
SRM 2: 2 missiles, if both hit 2x2 Points of Damage. It generates 2 points of Heat, weight is 1 ton for the launcher and 1 ton for the ammo (50 Salvos). In 60% only 1 missile hits causing 2 points of damage.
A medium laser does 5 Points of damage, has a weight of 1 ton, and needs no ammo. Yes, it makes 1 point more heat, but thats not a problem because each mech has at least 10 heat sinks.

You are the kind of player who has no soul and should be stoned when he takes the field.

That is all.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: The E on November 03, 2011, 07:40:12 am
Yes, in a one-on-one, one map duel, the Medium lasers reign supreme.

In any other configuration (like, say, a 4-on-4, 4 map lance match), not so much. Then the whole equation looks vastly different all of a sudden, as your medium-range specialist suddenly finds itself unable to get into optimum range without being hammered by heavy weapons.

And yes, going for a config like that screams "noob tube" to more experienced players.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Al-Rik on November 03, 2011, 08:22:48 am
In any other configuration (like, say, a 4-on-4, 4 map lance match), not so much. Then the whole equation looks vastly different all of a sudden, as your medium-range specialist suddenly finds itself unable to get into optimum range without being hammered by heavy weapons.
Depends on the Map and on the setup of the scenario.

A Battletech-Map has 19 area of 19x17 hexes. If you move 6 Hexes per turn, you can fire after the 2nd turn.
1nd  turn: moving from 18 to 12 hexes = Medium range for PPC, to hit number: 4 + 2 (medium range) +2 (5 or more hexes moved) = 10 with 2d6
2nd turn:  moving from 12 to 16 hexes = short range for PPC, to hit number: 4 + 0 (short range) +2 (5 or more hexes moved) = 8 with 2d6

If you change the map layout to 4 Maps and use additional maps if someone leaves the maps it's different. That gives you more room to move and improve the sense of long range weapons.

But over all, the construction system and the weapons of the Boardgame is pretty IMBA ;)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on November 03, 2011, 02:05:18 pm
Your posts, all they tell me is that you've never been solidly smacked down like you should for using designs that are practically pre-patch akimbo '87s in Modern Warfare 2.

Eventually you'll find someone who can and will repeatedly smack you into the ground until you learn to open the range a bit and use something besides Medium Lasers.  The board game is balanced up until the point where someone deliberately unbalances it with munched out 'Mechs.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mikes on November 04, 2011, 02:49:49 am
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).

1. Even while adhering to the boardgame rules you could easily implement über weapons for cash: LosTech anyone?  ...or how about simply adding special Mech Hangers for heavy/überheavy Mechs. What, you thought that would be free? ;) Heck... for all we know we could start out in a 20ton mech with nothing else but MGs and light lasers and anything else would have to be "earned" through grind or $$$. Sorry to toss that right back at ya, but you are sadly displaying a huge ignorance of how socallled *free to play* games usually work.

2. Certain weapons or even Mechs with linked weapons that all hit the same spot (i.e.anything that has a huge damage number that gets applied to a single target location) already have the intrinsic potential to become "Über" if you allow for manual targeting in a computer game. (With Boardgame rules we would not only have to be the best pilot imaginable, but would also require a targeting computer (Clan Tech) and even then we'd have trouble reaching the pinpoint accuracy we are so casually used to in the Mechwarrior games.)

3. If you think a game, especially a *free to play game* even has to adhere to Boardgame rules to the letter... because uhm...it's Battletech?... then I got a couple of bridges to sell ya...


I mean really... I'd love to have a fully featured Battletech game that rocks... so I would really wish I am wrong ;) But I'm not that prone to wishful thinking, especially not when talking about a *free to play* MMO...  in that case: guilty until proven otherwise. With that genre, anything else would just be naive and guillible.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Al-Rik on November 04, 2011, 05:54:18 am
Your posts, all they tell me is that you've never been solidly smacked down like you should for using designs that are practically pre-patch akimbo '87s in Modern Warfare 2.
Why do you think I use those designs ?

I have played the Boardgame for 5 years in a Chapter, competing against other Chapter on conventions.
The Mechs in the Chapters Roster have been de terminated by a roll on a House/Clan specific table.
All damage was carried to the next battle at the same con, destroyed Mechs were removed from the Rooster.


My first Mech was a Standard 3025 Marauder (2xPPC 1xAc5 2xMedium Laser, 16 Heat Sinks) and I played it for 2 Years until a lucky shoot in the Ammobin destroyed it.
Next Mech was a Standard Centurion also played for 2 Years (CT destroyed)
Last Mech was a Standard Withwort played for a Year

Actuality only play once or twice a Year  - and for a Week at a large scale Scenario with 70 players.

Eventually you'll find someone who can and will repeatedly smack you into the ground until you learn to open the range a bit and use something besides Medium Lasers.  The board game is balanced up until the point where someone deliberately unbalances it with munched out 'Mechs.
Nothing is balanced, and you have to set the rules of the scenario (map layout, mechs, ect...) to balancing it.

If you want to play a real balanced game you have to take a look to dreampod 9s Heavy Gear oder Steve Jacksons Car Wars - both games with a much better design. ;)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on November 04, 2011, 12:26:19 pm
This betrays an indication that you don't really know how BattleTech works.  There is no uber-gun.  Everything has a downside (except perhaps Clan weapons, but this game takes place before the universe even knows the exist, so that's a moot point).

1. Even while adhering to the boardgame rules you could easily implement über weapons for cash: LosTech anyone?  ...or how about simply adding special Mech Hangers for heavy/überheavy Mechs. What, you thought that would be free? ;) Heck... for all we know we could start out in a 20ton mech with nothing else but MGs and light lasers and anything else would have to be "earned" through grind or $$$. Sorry to toss that right back at ya, but you are sadly displaying a huge ignorance of how socallled *free to play* games usually work.

2. Certain weapons or even Mechs with linked weapons that all hit the same spot (i.e.anything that has a huge damage number that gets applied to a single target location) already have the intrinsic potential to become "Über" if you allow for manual targeting in a computer game. (With Boardgame rules we would not only have to be the best pilot imaginable, but would also require a targeting computer (Clan Tech) and even then we'd have trouble reaching the pinpoint accuracy we are so casually used to in the Mechwarrior games.)

3. If you think a game, especially a *free to play game* even has to adhere to Boardgame rules to the letter... because uhm...it's Battletech?... then I got a couple of bridges to sell ya...


I mean really... I'd love to have a fully featured Battletech game that rocks... so I would really wish I am wrong ;) But I'm not that prone to wishful thinking, especially not when talking about a *free to play* MMO...  in that case: guilty until proven otherwise. With that genre, anything else would just be naive and guillible.


Wow.  it's like you read the part of my post about how it's possible to have a F2P MMO with some benefits for paying and then completely ignored the example I brought up where NOTHING AT ALL LIKE THIS HAPPENS.

Excuse my personal experience with the genre, it's obviously borne of naivete and gullibility.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on November 05, 2011, 02:39:37 am
My experience is MC and MC2 exclusively.  And XPulses on a Cougar or a Stiletto seem to be pretty powerful.  A Centurion with 2 small pulses, and PPC(Clan ER if available) and 3 LRM pretty well stomps anything in it's weight class and a pair of them seems like even odds vs most heavies.  Of course, since I know next to nothing about the time line, I might be a century ahead of what will be in this.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on November 05, 2011, 04:17:50 am
My experience is MC and MC2 exclusively.  And XPulses on a Cougar or a Stiletto seem to be pretty powerful.  A Centurion with 2 small pulses, and PPC(Clan ER if available) and 3 LRM pretty well stomps anything in it's weight class and a pair of them seems like even odds vs most heavies.  Of course, since I know next to nothing about the time line, I might be a century ahead of what will be in this.

The time the game is set is between two and three years before the Clans make their appearance.

The Cougar doesn't show up for another 10 after that.  And besides that, why in the name of all that is good and decent would you mount an X-Pulse, when you can use the Clan version that does more damage, for less tonnage, with less heat and more range?

LRMs don't work the same way in the boardgame as in MC.  A Centurion with PPC, two small pulse lasers, and an LRM 5 (nearest equivalent) is underweigh by half a ton once you add enough extra heat sinks to balance load, and also significantly less effective than if you just mounted medium lasers or ERMLs.  And also going to be eaten alive by any of the 55-ton trio excepting maybe the Shadow Hawk 2H.  CERPPC would leave you with another ton left over and a heat problem.

At any rate, I expect two of something to going against something less than twice their weight to come out on top, pretty much regardless of how good or bad the 'Mechs involved are.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Liberator on November 06, 2011, 01:52:58 am
Like I said, my experience is pure Mechcommander and Mechcommander 2, in both games heat is not an in mission thing to worry about.  It doesn't exist in MC1 and in MC2 it's just another loadout gauge to work against in a min/max sort of way and as long as you come in under the max equipment tonnage and heat on the bar, the mech deploys.

Also, as far as coming in under weight on the Centurion, there are 3 default configurations for all mechs in MC2, a W variant that sacrifices armor for weapons(it has more loadout and less HP), an A variant that has more HP and less loadout and a jump jet variant with the loadout of the A with the HP of the W but is more mobile.  The Centurion W will mount 3 LRM, a PPC and 3 light lasers using IS tech only.  If you switch to Clan tech, you can add another LRM and an ER-PPC and replace all the light lasers with ER-Light Lasers making it a fairly hard hitting mech at medium range.  And two of these would probably get wiped by a single Mad Cat since it can alpha strike from the same range with the same amount of weaponry all into one medium, the first Mad Cat you encounter in the MC1 campaign basically kills your entire team(my usual deployment was a Centurion and 3 Commandos) if you don't use a fuel depot to either disable or destroy it(usually the latter).
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on November 06, 2011, 11:05:32 am
Liberator, you should probably play MechWarrior 3 and the MekTek release of MW4 Mercenaries.  Those games will give you a better idea of what weapons are capable of and their tonnage/ammo/heat drawbacks.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on November 06, 2011, 12:38:24 pm
I wish I could even run either one. MW3 just crashes when I hit Start Mission after going through the compatability workarounds and MW4 just works when it feels like it  (One out of every 20 tries to start), and doesn't let me use my joystick.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Scotty on November 06, 2011, 01:15:25 pm
Like I said, my experience is pure Mechcommander and Mechcommander 2, in both games heat is not an in mission thing to worry about.  It doesn't exist in MC1 and in MC2 it's just another loadout gauge to work against in a min/max sort of way and as long as you come in under the max equipment tonnage and heat on the bar, the mech deploys.

I'm very aware of now the MC series works, having played both of them for a very long time.  I was telling you how the effectiveness of a unit should not be judged by how it performs in the MC series.  Heat management changes a lot, and so do critical slot requirements for different kinds of equipment (it works very differently everywhere else)

Except that Timberwolf probably would legitimately wipe the floor with three Commandos and a Centurion.  Depends on the variant.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Nuke on November 06, 2011, 06:55:39 pm
I wish I could even run either one. MW3 just crashes when I hit Start Mission after going through the compatability workarounds and MW4 just works when it feels like it  (One out of every 20 tries to start), and doesn't let me use my joystick.

i never could get mw3 to run stable on any of my rigs. i need to get a nostalgia rig with a win98 instal i think. i got a machine upstairs that might work, but i havent tried it yet.
mw4 with the mektek packs is epic and well suited for a lan party. but i really like mechwarrior living legends. your not confined to just mechs, the graphics are awesome, the gameplay is hella fun. it just doesnt have single player, so you end up fighting a bunch of battletech geeks and get slaughtered like freebirth swine.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: JGZinv on November 06, 2011, 07:53:45 pm
why not just run a virtual machine.... seems an easier route to go.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Flaser on November 07, 2011, 02:30:01 am
why not just run a virtual machine.... seems an easier route to go.

Because the game needs a decent 3D accelerator, and most virtual machine environments don't offer those.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: LHN91 on November 07, 2011, 08:28:52 am
Mech 3 can run in software render mode, looks like hell, but I can't see why it wouldn't run in a VM that way. I'll have to give it a shot later and see how it goes.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: LHN91 on November 08, 2011, 04:05:07 pm
SO... no go so far on MW3 in a VM, at least in VirtualBox. Have heard some reports that Microsoft' s Virtual PC emulates an old S3 Trio that I know can run MW3 as I've used it before, so that may be an option.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Enzo03 on November 10, 2011, 02:28:41 pm
I managed to simply install MW3 on my computer (Win7 Home Premium x64) and run it no problem, with the exception of music problems because the disc is a little scratched.

I'm not exactly sure how I'm supposed to show any way of how to do it since I just installed it normally.  Might be able to record it or something if I ever have time.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: LHN91 on November 10, 2011, 02:33:49 pm
Are you running an Nvidia card? or an older Intel integrated chip? because it is far more likely to just work on those chips in my experience, while ATI cards have all kinda of fun glitches

Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Commander Zane on November 10, 2011, 03:29:04 pm
I managed to simply install MW3 on my computer (Win7 Home Premium x64) and run it no problem,

I'm not exactly sure how I'm supposed to show any way of how to do it since I just installed it normally.
How the ****.
What. Is this. I don't even.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: LHN91 on November 10, 2011, 09:17:55 pm
It tries on my C-50 based laptop running 7 64bit. Everything runs fine, it just renders wierd; mostly the screen not clearing properly, probably some optimization I need to disable. On my old Radeon 4670 it did all kinds of fun physics things, like several hundred foot high APC bounces.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 11, 2011, 01:20:04 am
I managed to simply install MW3 on my computer (Win7 Home Premium x64) and run it no problem, with the exception of music problems because the disc is a little scratched.

I'm not exactly sure how I'm supposed to show any way of how to do it since I just installed it normally.  Might be able to record it or something if I ever have time.

This should absolutely not have worked.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: redsniper on November 11, 2011, 08:41:47 am
Enzo, we must confiscate your computer and examine it THOROUGHLY. For the sake of MW fans everywhere!
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: LHN91 on November 11, 2011, 08:53:09 am
Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit, AMD C-50 Processor with Radeon 6250 graphics. Installs normally, launches normally, seems to cooperate up until you get in-game.

This is what it does. It is playable, and I may be able to get this working if I mess around with some settings as it kinda looks like some AMD optimizations might be getting in the way.

(http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h451/LHN91/Untitled.png)
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Kszyhu on November 11, 2011, 09:49:25 am
It's not a problem with graphical settings, MW3 looks like that on all newer Radeons, and that's unavoidable (unless you use software renderer).
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: LHN91 on November 11, 2011, 10:31:21 am
And software render does funny things on modern systems. Mostly bouncy vehicles. Falling back to the onboard Nvidia 7000 series on my desktop (7 professional 64bit, Athlon II x4) lets it run more or less flawlessly on there. Couple of grey screen crashes, but that used to happen to me all the time on my old Win95 box that was only just above minimum spec.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: -Joshua- on November 12, 2011, 01:52:32 am
Perhaps try using a 3DFX emulator?
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: LHN91 on November 12, 2011, 12:55:26 pm
MW3 is a DX6.1 hardware accelerated game only, with a software rendering backup. No 3Dfx or OpenGL. Makes sense as Microsoft had a hand in the development.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Patriot on November 12, 2011, 02:12:51 pm
I'd like a little help to getting MW3 to launch, have an ATI(ASUS produced) card, run on XP SP3
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: LHN91 on November 12, 2011, 02:21:06 pm
May very well be a lost cause. Any modern ATI card causes the glitches I showed earlier on, and in my experience xp is the most annoying OS to get Mw3 working on. When it tells you it incompatible, click continue. If it doesn't work try swapping compatibility modes. That said, no guarantees due to the ATI card.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Patriot on November 12, 2011, 02:26:29 pm
EDIT: Got it running now, had to turn the special text thing off and no themes, Win98/Me compat mode.

Not sure if a 256 color mode will help against the giant artefacts
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Nuke on November 12, 2011, 05:52:12 pm
MW3 is a DX6.1 hardware accelerated game only, with a software rendering backup. No 3Dfx or OpenGL. Makes sense as Microsoft had a hand in the development.

directx of doom. seriously that has got to be the worst version of directx ever. considering the number of older glide and opengl based games i can still play, and comparing them to my collection of newer dx6 games, the former still run bug free for the most part, while the latter dont even run at all, and if they do run its bugs bugs bugs. its actually sad that i have less trouble with glide games, because that api isnt even supported anymore except through 3rd party wrappers.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Mongoose on November 12, 2011, 07:23:01 pm
I tried to get a Glide API to play nice with an old PC game called Glover I grabbed at a used book sale, but I don't think it ever managed to recognize the wrapper properly.  I should try fooling around with it again.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Nuke on November 12, 2011, 11:35:52 pm
its trickey to make work. but i play mechwarrior 2 and carmageddon 2 under glide and neither one has any graphics problems.
Title: Re: New MechWarrior Game?
Post by: Patriot on November 23, 2011, 01:38:34 pm
Dragon confirmed
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Enzo03 on November 27, 2011, 02:06:57 pm
To answer people's questions, beyond all logic I indeed use an ATI card - A Radeon HD4200 Mobility (I forget the word order but that's what it is).

Since this is likely hard to believe, maybe during the course of the week I'll have time to record a video of myself installing MW3 from scratch and patching it and all, then playing it.  At bare minimum I'll just start Mechwarrior 3 and play it.

Hopefully I can actually remember that I posted this.

But my biggest problem is finding a decent screen recorder:
-Fraps sucks.
-Hypercam might be doable but it generally sucks.
-CamStudio SUCKS.
-I know there are others but I need a free one that can actually do what it says on the tin without throwing a fit or doing a piss-poor job.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Nuke on November 27, 2011, 02:46:37 pm
i got mw3 (no not that mw3 you ****head!) to work on my main rig, unfortunately it doesnt like my wide screen resolution. running 4:3 aspect games on a 16:9 gives me really bad nausea (im getting old, lol) and so its unplayable. my upstasirs junk computer sort of runs it on its integrated intel graphics gpu. instant action works just fine, but starting the campaign crashes the game. so im not really gonna be able to play mw3 till i get a 98 install on that junk rig.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: JGZinv on November 27, 2011, 02:51:27 pm
envo - try finding Debut Video Capture, an old copy. The newer ones were junk. MP4 mode worked the best.
Failing that... use a camera, camera phone, whatever... aimed at the screen.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Enzo03 on November 29, 2011, 12:55:21 pm
Who in the world is envo?  Sounds like a total jackass.

If it is not free then it is no go.  I had a full version of FRAPs though - which disappointed me spectacularly when it failed to record anything at a framerate of any more than 5 fps no matter what I set it to.  CamStudio and its other various forms are much, much worse.  The best I've ever had was Growler Guncam Demo Version which recorded stuff like my Mechwarrior 4 video flawlessly at 800x600 at a decent framerate and without slowing down, on an old computer.  But I never could buy a full version.  Now I can't because buying online is simply off limits to me.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dark RevenantX on November 30, 2011, 08:51:09 am
You need two hard drives (or an SSD), a decent CPU with more cores than the game uses (efficiently; as in you have a core free that's at 0-20%), and a good amount of RAM at a decent speed.  A good video card helps, but does not affect FRAPS specifically but rather raises the framerate you're being reduced from in the first place.

With an overclocked i5 2500K, 8GB of DDR3-1600 RAM, and a large storage drive + Crucial M4 SSD, FRAPS has a very small hit on the framerate.  Depending on the game, the impact can be 0-50%, but the average case is more like 15%.


Better option that doesn't use FRAPS but still costs as much as an upgrade:

Get some equipment to split the output signal from your card (easier if your card has two+ outputs) and directly record it to a separate hard drive with that equipment.  No framerate impact whatsoever, and perfect recording quality.  But it costs quite a lot.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Enzo03 on November 30, 2011, 09:25:04 pm
Wow, I just said that if it is not free then I'm not doing it and you pretty much ignored me on that one.

An "upgrade" in my case would be a new computer altogether.

Meanwhile, I managed to snag Growler Guncam and have no recording problems.

Gonna have to play around with the settings.

EDIT: I had some problems getting MW3 to run properly, but it turns out there is some weird bug having to do with having your computer on for a long time (I would often put it in sleep/hibernate as opposed to actually shutting it off, just for convenience's sake).  This causes jump jets and zoom and other controls to stutter, along with the rest of the game.  So I restarted my computer.  Runs like a charm.  Before I tried this, I even went as far as updating graphics drivers.  So I still have no problems even with the latest Catalyst drivers.  The only problem I do have is one I had with an old laptop with WinXP (that doesn't work anymore), which has to do with some of the functions that can be toggled, such as the torso twist - freelook toggle.  Occasionally it gets stuck in freelook and I have to hold the control down just to be able to twist my torso (which is a bother unless piloting the Nova, I forget what its IS name is).  So basically it looks and plays just like it has looked and played for me all the time, save the weird toggle bug.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LHN91 on December 01, 2011, 08:28:02 am
Nova = Black Hawk. Also, I've tried it on several AMD cards and still get that same corruption I posted earlier. Is it possible you have an old enough card that it handles DirectX6.1 reasonably well?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Enzo03 on December 01, 2011, 02:32:40 pm
Perhaps that is the case.

I have yet to try out the Pirate's Moon EP, which I have.

I read that Pirate's Moon uses DX7.

Also, a post on my facebook regarding the video I promised:
Quote
>Record a long PC gameplay video
>wait for video to export
>mfw all audio was recorded from mic, not from speakers: http://www.myfacewhen.com/images/133.jpg
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on January 11, 2012, 11:28:46 pm
Relevant bump!

Quote from: Paul Inouye| http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/01/87-developer-interview-paul-inouye-david-bradley-bryan-ekman
My main role on MechWarrior® Online™ is the injection of the F2P development model into this well-defined franchise.  My experience in the F2P market comes from in-depth research and discussions with a key group of people at Nexon.  It was here that I realized the nuances between the Asian F2P consumer and the North American F2P consumer had different expectations.  I wrote a ‘thesis’ (for lack of a better word) on how F2P works and what motivates a player to play these types of games.
Anyone who hesitated with the F2P MMOs feel like giving this one a shot? The MWO team seems invested in avoiding Pay-to-Win in the Q&A.

In other news: Critter-Tek
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on January 12, 2012, 09:57:32 am
I still want a campaign. :blah:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Turambar on January 12, 2012, 11:09:53 am
Yup, still not interested in pay to win crap.  I want Mechwarrior 5, not this ****.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 12, 2012, 11:47:15 am
Yup, still not interested in pay to win crap.  I want Mechwarrior 5, not this ****.
Well, tough crap.  You're getting MechWarrior Online.

As to the actual game itself, I'm looking forwards to MWO, if only because it is a new MechWarrior game, and if it does well, maybe a publisher will front the cash for a single-player MechWarrior game with an actual campaign.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Patriot on January 12, 2012, 03:35:20 pm
Yeah this game, provided it rises to the top, could really reboot the franchise as a whole.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Enzo03 on January 12, 2012, 05:06:32 pm
I probably won't be playing it.

I tried messing around with CryEngine 3 SDK.  I loaded the Forest level that comes with it and..

well.. it runs... I can tell what things are going on...

...it just doesn't run... acceptably.  10 FPS isn't acceptable.  Time for a new computer...too bad that costs $$$, something which I sorely lack.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on January 12, 2012, 07:06:27 pm
Hmm.  If 10 FPS isn't acceptable, I've been playing World of Tanks at unacceptable framerates for eight months.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Enzo03 on January 12, 2012, 08:02:08 pm
Well really it's more like this:

The FPS counter says I have 10.

I'm not getting 10.

There are other games where when the FPS counter says 10, it means 10.

Not 4.

Probably should have elaborated but I've been kinda dazed all day.

edit: and now I'm overexaggerating.  It's probably more than a measly four.  But it is bad, and worse than the FPS counter says.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Sarafan on January 12, 2012, 08:25:42 pm
At the very least, I'm glad that we're going to get a new mechwarrior game at all to begin with after so many years of nothing, hopefully with a lot of people playing MWO things will pick up and a MW5 or MC3, whatever might follow.

I know this might derail the thread a bit but does anyone know if modding the MW4 games are particularly difficult? I always wondered why with such a huge fan base next to nothing was done on MW4. Yeah, I know about Mektek, my point is that that is the only thing made for it, there's nothing else. Isnt there a mission editor for MW4? That game could surely use something akin FSOpen.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on January 13, 2012, 09:59:20 am
There is a mission editor, though I'm not sure how robust it is. I get the feeling the MW modding community is mostly focused on multi. Maybe the tools for good user-made campaigns just aren't there, but I think it's more of a lack of will.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on January 13, 2012, 12:04:04 pm
Hmm.  If 10 FPS isn't acceptable, I've been playing World of Tanks at unacceptable framerates for eight months.
Its an acceptable frame rate if you have like no standards. I for one have considered anything under 20fps pretty much unacceptable/unplayable ever since I was old enough to start paying for my own pc stuff. 

To anyone who has mw3 running. How bad is it crashing for you? For me its pretty much instant CTD whenever something collides into something else.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LHN91 on January 13, 2012, 02:04:11 pm
Hmm.  If 10 FPS isn't acceptable, I've been playing World of Tanks at unacceptable framerates for eight months.
Its an acceptable frame rate if you have like no standards. I for one have considered anything under 20fps pretty much unacceptable/unplayable ever since I was old enough to start paying for my own pc stuff. 

To anyone who has mw3 running. How bad is it crashing for you? For me its pretty much instant CTD whenever something collides into something else.

If you're on a modern system, it's probably the physics being glitchy. In my experience, it runs best on 32bit OS's and with hardware that isn't recent AMD (at least 4000 series and up). Honestly, it seems to run wonderfully in HW render mode on an Intel GMA950. Probably the only game in history to do so  :p

Also, IIRC, it doesn't like SW render on newer systems.

Take this all with a grain of salt, I haven't tried in a couple months.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Sarafan on January 13, 2012, 02:47:03 pm
There is a mission editor, though I'm not sure how robust it is. I get the feeling the MW modding community is mostly focused on multi. Maybe the tools for good user-made campaigns just aren't there, but I think it's more of a lack of will.

Yeah, Mektek's mekpaks were made more for multi which I always thought was a shame. But what about modifying things like graphics? I know there's a HD patch for it so its possible.

To anyone who has mw3 running. How bad is it crashing for you? For me its pretty much instant CTD whenever something collides into something else.

I finished playing MW3 and Pirate's Moon again just last week with almost no crashes, what I did was follow what the guy in this link says:

http://www.mektek.net/forums/topic/179122-mw3-100-working-windows-7-64bit/

My pc is old and I was also having all the usual problems with running MW3, after following that I managed to complete the game with no worries.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on January 13, 2012, 04:15:52 pm
Cheers, I'll give that a try.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Enzo03 on January 13, 2012, 08:31:10 pm
As far as I understand, actual mods for MW4/mercs require practically taking apart the program and modifying it to support specifically made new assets and then putting the program back together in a way so that the program understands how to run it.  Might have worded it incorrectly, but that's what sometimes happens when I paraphrase an idea from my thoughts.  Basically the game is not meant to support any sort of mods at all and getting it to work with modifications requires some extremely low level tinkering with the game itself, if only compared to other games that have mods.

Mapping, on the other hand, is obviously fully supported, otherwise there wouldn't be an official map editor (though the modified versions of the editor are better, kinda like Atan's versions of D3Edit for Descent 3 being better than the official versions).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on March 01, 2012, 08:28:01 am
Small Teaser Trailer (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/systems-online-mechwarrior-online/727409)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Enzo03 on March 01, 2012, 11:57:36 am
At first I thought that Atlas may be a bit too large.
I mean sure, it's supposed to be big, but likely no taller than 14 or 15m.
The one in the trailer looked vastly taller than 15m...

...then I looked at sarna.net and saw this:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/7/7f/WarhammerInternalSchematics.jpg

Pilot standing beside it for scale.  Human-to-mech size ratio might be correct for the Atlas after all.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Sarafan on March 01, 2012, 01:41:28 pm
Small Teaser Trailer (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/systems-online-mechwarrior-online/727409)

Awesome!
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Liberator on March 01, 2012, 03:26:06 pm
Didn't realize they deployed them like that sometimes.  That was like something out of Gundam.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 01, 2012, 03:52:12 pm
I SEE AN ARCHER WTFWTFWTF HAS HARMONY GOLD RELENTED?

No seriously, if the other 'Mech visible at 0:39 isn't an ARC-2R I'll eat my socks. There's another one visible at 1:06 but I can't get a good idea of what it is.

They also set it at 3049.

One year before the Clan Invasion.

This is going to be fun.

Didn't realize they deployed them like that sometimes.  That was like something out of Gundam.

There are multiple methods of combat drop elaborated on in the books, and we actually saw orbital drops in MW3 and low altitude in MW4. This particular drop doesn't seem that dissimilar from the sort described in the Operation Serpent books for the attack on Huntress. (although it's been awhile since I read that scene, I should again)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 01, 2012, 03:57:25 pm
I still can't get a good look, but from the shot at 00:28, I think that's a Battlemaster in the background.

A ****ing Battlemaster.

brb cleaning jizz out my underwear.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Polpolion on March 01, 2012, 04:22:10 pm
I just wish it had a single player campaign... Oh well, it'll still be nice to have more mech games.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on March 01, 2012, 07:09:32 pm
I just wish it had a single player campaign... Oh well, it'll still be nice to have more mech games.

Same. I'm glad for more more Mechwarrior, but I'm just not into competitive multi enough to get too excited about this. I'm hoping this and Hawken will revive the genre somewhat though.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on March 01, 2012, 09:11:32 pm
it's NOMINAL GOD DAMN IT

ALL SYSTEMS NOMINAL

the studio says they know and they'll try to fix it<3
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on March 01, 2012, 09:25:39 pm
it's NOMINAL GOD DAMN IT

ALL SYSTEMS NOMINAL

the studio says they know and they'll try to fix it<3
****ING THIS.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on March 01, 2012, 10:00:58 pm
Oh **** I watched the trailer without sound at work earlier. Now I hear it. WTF?? All systems ONLINE??? WHAT IS THIS ****!?












Good to hear they're on it, though.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on March 01, 2012, 10:27:47 pm
I know I'm going to lose major nerd cred for this...

What am I missing here?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LHN91 on March 01, 2012, 10:37:40 pm
Go and listen to the mission start up sequence from more or less any Mechwarrior game (at least 2 and 3). The start up sequence ALWAYS ends with "All systems, NOMINAL" not online.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 01, 2012, 11:17:14 pm
it's NOMINAL GOD DAMN IT

ALL SYSTEMS NOMINAL

the studio says they know and they'll try to fix it<3

Sadly that occurred to me about watching number two as well, but it was too late.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on March 02, 2012, 12:13:30 am
http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/02/151-wednesday-hot-drop

Quote
One never became used to it. The fall. The drop from the heavens to the hells of the battlefield. The jolts became harder, more frequent. Com-chatter non-existent, she wondered how many of these she had been on. Hell, she knew of at least twelve drops in this Leopard alone. Her recon lance, long veterans of being in the first wave, were around her, though she could not see them. Suddenly her ‘Mech came to life, and she toggled all systems on, running a quick check. Reactor online, Sensors online, Weapons online, All Systems Nominal. Purring like a kitten, she thought, giving a thumbs up to the ‘tech looking at her.

;7

EDIT: Oh, and this:

http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/02/152-wednesday-hot-drop-bonus

Quote
On a much more sad note, the following is a special report on the final hours of one of the universes best and most courageous 'MechWarriors. Inner Sphere News has obtained a writeup of his final hours.

 

“Get them on the ship, I don’t care how!”

His heat in the red-line, he kept moving left and right, blocking any enemy forward movement. His frontal armour was shredded, nearly gone. His left arm lay on the ground somewhere behind him, the unfortunate recipient of a PPC shot.

“Sir you need to withdraw, we’re the last transport out. The enem-“

“I withdraw and no-one makes it off this rock. You worry about loading those civvies and that recon lance, I’ll worry about these ‘Mechs!” Blake growled.

A PPC and three large lasers smashed into a Jenner that poked its head over a hill, too close to the Leopard dropship on the ground. Blake fired three bursts as well, the first two shredded the left leg, the final pushed it over as the joint collapsed. Blake could see the ‘Mechbay of the Leopard even from here as he glanced back – they were tossing out anything they could to make room for hurt and hungry children… He turned back to the battle.

The enemy ‘Mechs, likely assuming they were facing a well dug in, larger force, were waiting before they assaulted his position. The Leopards PPC’s certainly added to that theory. Perfect, he thought, grinning.

Four enemy ‘Mechs – two lights and two mediums – never saw him coming as he flanked them to the right. He lowered the left shoulder of his Atlas, crashing into a Jenner, crushing its canopy between his shoulder and fist. Slow to react, the other pilots could only watch in terror as he turned, then charged into a Centurion, crushing its left arm and toppling it over. With a disgusted sneer he fired his AC/20’s through the cockpit and stepped on its chest, collapsing it as he strode through the shower of metal.

“Sir, we’ve completed boarding, but we think we’ve made room for you to-“

“Belay that, you take off now.”

Silence stretched on the line before the radio came to life again.

“You’ll be remembered for this, Commander Cripes.”

“Shut up and get out of here” was the only reply.

As the radio operator looking down, Leopard lifting through the atmosphere and still firing it’s weapons in support, the last thing anyone saw of Commander Blake ‘Hell Fist’ Cripes was his ‘Mechs right fist colliding with a Centurion, crushing what was left of its AC-ruined torso armour, as a rain of LRM’s fell upon him.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on March 08, 2012, 10:42:01 pm
Interview (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-2012-mechwarrior-online/727870)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on March 09, 2012, 12:03:43 pm
Interview (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-2012-mechwarrior-online/727870)
**** yes. I am HYPED now.
Can't come soon enough (when its ready :p )
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Angelus on March 09, 2012, 01:38:22 pm
No. No. No. No. No. NO!
This can't happen...it seems there is another F2P game that interrest me. Must resist...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Enzo03 on March 09, 2012, 02:43:54 pm
The only reason I'm not hyped for it is because there's no way I'll be able to play it. :(

Current computer probably can't handle it and I'm broke.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on March 09, 2012, 02:48:18 pm
The only reason I'm not hyped for it is because there's no way I'll be able to play it. :(

Current computer probably can't handle it and I'm broke.

CryEngine 3 can run on consoles, so you may have a better shot than you think.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on March 14, 2012, 12:54:14 pm
Gameplay (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-2012-mechwarrior-online/727976)

Same footage as the interview, but its now in one concise segment.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on March 14, 2012, 05:31:30 pm
It's beautiful.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Ravenholme on March 14, 2012, 08:02:16 pm
Shall we form a Hard Lighter mercenary faction for MWO?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Sarafan on March 14, 2012, 08:15:47 pm
Shall we form a Hard Lighter mercenary faction for MWO?

With the name Hard Lighters? Screams of light mechs only.

Gameplay (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-2012-mechwarrior-online/727976)

Same footage as the interview, but its now in one concise segment.

Ok, now I'm hyped.

Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Ravenholme on March 14, 2012, 09:06:56 pm
Shall we form a Hard Lighter mercenary faction for MWO?

With the name Hard Lighters? Screams of light mechs only.

Gameplay (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-2012-mechwarrior-online/727976)

Same footage as the interview, but its now in one concise segment.

Ok, now I'm hyped.

It could be ironic. Plus, I'd be all over leading a Light mech Lance in the group :P
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on March 14, 2012, 10:17:29 pm
I would totally join a Light/Medium only company.  That would be hilarious.  Gimme my Jenner.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 14, 2012, 10:22:42 pm
My Phoenix Hawk, do they have it?

If not I suppose I'll settle for a Centurion.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on March 14, 2012, 10:42:05 pm
I'll laserboat in a Wolfhound.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on March 14, 2012, 10:54:11 pm
gonna drive a commando

gonna bodyguard a big mech

when the big mech gets in a fight i'm gonna run away and when he blows up i'm gonna say 'look at it this way, kid, now YOU get to keep ALL the MONEY'

never gonna not do this
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on March 15, 2012, 01:47:28 am
I'll happily join a scout company, just let me strap some JJs to my mech and watch me fly over that atlas
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Angelus on March 15, 2012, 03:44:02 am
The PPCs of my Uziel will leave marks on your Mechs  :P
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Ravenholme on March 15, 2012, 08:36:06 am
gonna drive a commando

gonna bodyguard a big mech

when the big mech gets in a fight i'm gonna run away and when he blows up i'm gonna say 'look at it this way, kid, now YOU get to keep ALL the MONEY'

never gonna not do this

The reference to MW2 Mercs makes me happy.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on March 15, 2012, 09:44:58 am
gonna drive a commando

gonna bodyguard a big mech

when the big mech gets in a fight i'm gonna run away and when he blows up i'm gonna say 'look at it this way, kid, now YOU get to keep ALL the MONEY'

never gonna not do this

There's still room in hell for your sorry carcass.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on March 15, 2012, 11:22:20 am
I'm only gonna be doing light mech driving if there will be a Raven.

gonna drive a commando

gonna bodyguard a big mech

when the big mech gets in a fight i'm gonna run away and when he blows up i'm gonna say 'look at the bright side, kid, YOU get to keep ALL the MONEY'

never gonna not do this
fix'd for accuracy
but I lol'd, good job Battuta   :lol::yes:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on March 15, 2012, 11:54:02 am
I'm only gonna be doing light mech driving if there will be a Raven.

gonna drive a commando

gonna bodyguard a big mech

when the big mech gets in a fight i'm gonna run away and when he blows up i'm gonna say 'look at the bright side, kid, YOU get to keep ALL the MONEY'

never gonna not do this
fix'd for accuracy
but I lol'd, good job Battuta   :lol::yes:

good choice, starting out I would probably aim for a http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hollander
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on March 15, 2012, 11:58:23 am
Guys, remember, I'm pretty sure there will only be 12-20 mechs at launch and they'll likely be from the 3025 era.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on March 15, 2012, 12:02:31 pm
Guys, remember, I'm pretty sure there will only be 12-20 mechs at launch and they'll likely be from the 3025 era.

http://mwomercs.com/support#faq

Quote
Q. What year is MechWarrior® Online™ taking place?

A. MechWarrior® Online™ is running an offset timeline of the BattleTech® Universe. As of this writing it is 2011 and the year is 3048 within the game. In 2012, when the game is launched, it will be 3049.

so the mechs and weapons will have to be that era on launch
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on March 15, 2012, 12:05:18 pm
Right, sorry - I just meant to say I don't think you should expect (favorite mech) to necessarily be in the game, since they seem like they're focusing on a relatively small core group for now. (The Hollander, for instance, is I think ~3055-3060?)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on March 15, 2012, 12:17:23 pm
fair point about the hollander, i am struggling to find a firm date for it
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Ravenholme on March 15, 2012, 12:24:26 pm
I'm only gonna be doing light mech driving if there will be a Raven.

gonna drive a commando

gonna bodyguard a big mech

when the big mech gets in a fight i'm gonna run away and when he blows up i'm gonna say 'look at the bright side, kid, YOU get to keep ALL the MONEY'

never gonna not do this
fix'd for accuracy
but I lol'd, good job Battuta   :lol::yes:

Raven Bros 4 Lyfe
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Angelus on March 15, 2012, 12:37:10 pm
well then, no Uziel for me ( which is a ~mid '60s design, iirc)  :(

but for me, as loyal follower of the House Davion, it doesn't matter in which mech i stomp others into the ground  :P
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on March 15, 2012, 12:40:15 pm
fair point about the hollander, i am struggling to find a firm date for it
The Hollander is in the Technical Readout 3055 ;-)

Flufftext says it was build on Coventry to counter the Jade Falcons. So it would be build between 3050 and 3055.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hollander
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on March 15, 2012, 12:51:31 pm
missed that bit, thanks
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Sarafan on March 15, 2012, 12:52:15 pm
Guys, remember, I'm pretty sure there will only be 12-20 mechs at launch and they'll likely be from the 3025 era.

As long as the Thunderbolt is there no other mech matters.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Ravenholme on March 15, 2012, 01:04:37 pm
Raven was first used in the 4th Succession War in 3028, so we might get our wish - plus the Raven is one of the iconic scout mechs.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on March 15, 2012, 01:51:36 pm
<3 Jenner.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: FireSpawn on March 15, 2012, 04:12:10 pm
I'll make the Flea feared again.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on March 15, 2012, 04:26:36 pm
I'll make the Flea feared again.

In the right hands an awesome Solaris mech on MW4, in the hands of the unlucky the galaxy's fastest coffin lol
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: FireSpawn on March 15, 2012, 04:35:10 pm
I'll make the Flea feared again.

In the right hands an awesome Solaris mech on MW4, in the hands of the unlucky the galaxy's fastest coffin lol

It took me ages and cost me a leg, but I managed to take down an Awesome with dual pulse lasers and a clan small laser while in a Flea. On my own.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on May 14, 2012, 06:27:26 pm
They Call Me Stompy (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gameplay-trailer-mechwarrior-online/730073)

(http://static.mwomercs.com/img/gallery/CA573BABAE0DAC6C7FFD2325F94403D8.jpg)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on May 14, 2012, 06:33:58 pm
*Raven*
Yes! (http://youtu.be/P3ALwKeSEYs?hd=1)

To be completely honest, I'm not all that fond of what they did with its design though.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 14, 2012, 06:47:04 pm
Captured Raven. Fedsuns insignia.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on May 14, 2012, 07:45:53 pm
If there were a higher quality version of the Cicada than this (http://static.mwomercs.com/img/gallery/3047101DB60645EF3DC0A15E99C00612.jpg) one, I'd like it a lot more than the Raven.  The Raven is still pretty down there on my list of favorite 'Mechs, though.  Entirely too specialized for me to use it often.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Unknown Target on May 15, 2012, 03:25:35 pm
Cool video, very pretty. TBH I'm probably more excited for HAWKEN though.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on May 15, 2012, 03:29:15 pm
Personally I am spending more time watching MechWarror Tactics (http://www.mwtactics.com/forums/)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: ZekeSulastin on May 15, 2012, 03:31:26 pm
That machinegun sounds like the minigun from the original Unreal Tournament ...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on May 15, 2012, 03:33:44 pm
Cool video, very pretty. TBH I'm probably more excited for HAWKEN though.

Well they're both F2P if I'm not mistaken?  I think I'll dabble in both, Hawken has a bit of a cool MASCHINEN KRIEGER vibe to its designs.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Unknown Target on May 15, 2012, 03:44:57 pm
Hawken is a multiplayer FPS with a one-time purchase price (so not an MMO), Mechwarrior Online I guess is, which I didn't realize when I wrote that. I might mess around with it once it comes out for that purpose, but the combat just doesn't look as engaging to me - it lacked a sense of scale and any "oomph" to the weapons.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on May 15, 2012, 04:24:32 pm
Hawken is a multiplayer FPS with a one-time purchase price (so not an MMO)

Hawken is free to play

Quote
I might mess around with it once it comes out for that purpose, but the combat just doesn't look as engaging to me - it lacked a sense of scale and any "oomph" to the weapons.

I assume you're talking about Hawken here? I can't really tell but since Hawken seems the less weighty and oomphy I assume it is
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: MR_T3D on May 15, 2012, 05:43:14 pm
I'm looking forward to firing up a house steiner scouting Atlas, defy their classes.

Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Unknown Target on May 15, 2012, 08:44:34 pm
Hawken is a multiplayer FPS with a one-time purchase price (so not an MMO)

Hawken is free to play

Quote
I might mess around with it once it comes out for that purpose, but the combat just doesn't look as engaging to me - it lacked a sense of scale and any "oomph" to the weapons.

I assume you're talking about Hawken here? I can't really tell but since Hawken seems the less weighty and oomphy I assume it is

I disagree, I think Hawken is more oomphy. But I didn't know it's free to play, that's awesome! :D
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: DireWolf on May 15, 2012, 08:53:38 pm
Hawken looks to be more angled towards FPS gameplay than a big stompy mech sim (though I could be looking at it all wrong). As for the oomph, when dealing with assaults/heavies , everything is supposed to bounce off the ridiculously thick armor. Pump a couple of AC20 rounds into a Jenner and see how that fares  :P
No Warhawks or Uziels makes me sad panda, but nevertheless looks really promising.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on May 15, 2012, 08:54:42 pm
I doubt either Hawken or MWO will be quite as good as MWLL. What a fantastic game. I wouldn't sneer at it at retail price.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Unknown Target on May 15, 2012, 09:00:29 pm
You know, I've been trying to play MWLL, but I couldn't get it to install right. I'll have to try it again.
Hawken is more of an FPS thing, and more fast-paced, so I'm pretty excited about it.

MW3 felt really stompy, this one I'm not so sure. The missiles looked pretty weak in that trailer (like, looked weak, I don't know how much DPS they do), and again the lack of scale (besides some trees and small rocks?) really threw me. Plus it looks like the mechs don't have much "mass" but I won't know for sure until I play it.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: DireWolf on May 15, 2012, 09:15:57 pm
You know, I've been trying to play MWLL, but I couldn't get it to install right. I'll have to try it again.
Hawken is more of an FPS thing, and more fast-paced, so I'm pretty excited about it.

MW3 felt really stompy, this one I'm not so sure. The missiles looked pretty weak in that trailer (like, looked weak, I don't know how much DPS they do), and again the lack of scale (besides some trees and small rocks?) really threw me. Plus it looks like the mechs don't have much "mass" but I won't know for sure until I play it.

I didn't really have a problem with the missiles, but the issue of scale does bug me a bit. Though I don't know if we can judge until the game is actually released, as so far it is till very much a work in progress.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: bigchunk1 on May 30, 2012, 02:06:55 pm
You may or may not be aware that a closed beta is now live. You might as well register and see if you get in. Registering reserves a username as well so you're probably going to have to do it anyways come release.

http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/05/265-closed-beta-invites-arriving-now

They also figured out a way to make money for the game on release day using founder's packs.

http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/05/259-operation-inception
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 30, 2012, 02:21:13 pm
Now they really can shut up and take my money.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on May 30, 2012, 02:30:35 pm
I've had my name reserved for... jeez, over six months now.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 30, 2012, 02:31:00 pm
Pretty much the same, tbh.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on May 30, 2012, 02:35:23 pm
aye, same here.
However, they can't shut up and take my money yet until they do cool stuff for the EU too.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on June 01, 2012, 08:30:03 pm
EU players can still get the Founders Pack.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: DireWolf on June 02, 2012, 09:08:23 am
For some clarification...

Quote from: Operation Clarification Article on MWOmercs
...The reason this announcement stated 'North America' is that it's for North American servers – As we have mentioned we are working very hard to launch MechWarrior Online in every region worldwide. We may also run a similar Operation for other regions, therefore we are required to recommend that for the best play experience you register and play in your region in the near future. However There is no IP blocking. You can signup from everywhere just keep in mind that if you are outside of North America we cannot guarantee your play experience.

Basically, you can only access the founders pack if you play on North American region servers AFAIK.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 07, 2012, 02:23:43 pm
So, the last of the 12 initial 'Mechs is the Stalker.

And damn but if it doesn't look amazing.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on June 07, 2012, 10:45:27 pm
Yup. Looks awesome. Still not officially confirmed that there will only be 12 at the start. For all we know, there may be a 13th!*

*I have no intention of getting your hopes up. Just stating facts.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on June 16, 2012, 06:41:35 pm
More information on Founder's Package for EU players:

Quote
For our European players, here is the answer you have been looking for: Yes, you can buy the Founder’s Package and you will never be blocked from continuing to play on the North American servers. Also, when servers are setup in your region, you will be given a onetime opportunity to transfer to those region’s servers taking everything you own with you
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 19, 2012, 10:50:48 pm
You can apparently buy in now.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 20, 2012, 11:36:21 am
47 euro spend on the elite package.
double the money for the legendary package seemed like a poor return in extra value to me
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 20, 2012, 08:45:14 pm
double the money for the legendary package seemed like a poor return in extra value to me

Yeah, I'll settle for the one 'Mech; it's not like I have a great attachment to any of these designs.

Maybe if they'd been a Phoenix Hawk, Stalker, Ostsol/Thunderbolt, and a Panther I would have had trouble choosing, but...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: JGZinv on June 20, 2012, 09:03:52 pm
Ok I played a tiny bit back when MW: Mercs was new... had the Xbox Mech Assaults, read some of the books,
played some of the Genesis era games, beta'd some of MWLL, but other than dips in and out of the MW universe over the years... I are noob.

Of the four mechs they are offering, what would be the advantages to picking one over the other? Or should we care since this is a progressive
universe and in X amount of game/real time those mechs will be outdated compared to newer units?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 20, 2012, 09:32:39 pm
You can get all of these mechs by playing the game normally too. So its not like you are missing out on any of them if you don't buy them with real money right now.
Each of the mechs that are being offered are of a different weight class. But they won't become outdated aaaanytime soon. The Atlas for example is already an oldtimer at the time frame MWO will take place and it will continue to serve many many more years.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 20, 2012, 10:20:22 pm
universe and in X amount of game/real time those mechs will be outdated compared to newer units?

Realistically speaking this is probably not a concern. Technology in the setting has not yet begun to advance dramatically and the setting was good about providing older machines upgrade options to keep them competitive. We are only about a year in game terms from the Clan invasion and the mass rollout of lostech to try and fight them, but this will mostly mean 'Mechs that are upgraded rather than replaced.

And even then, the difference between an AS7-K and an AS7-D is not an insurmountable one.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: JGZinv on June 20, 2012, 10:40:36 pm
Waits patiently for...

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2012/080/a/5/striker_axman_by_karyudo_ds-d4tjdqs.png (http://th02.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2012/080/a/5/striker_axman_by_karyudo_ds-d4tjdqs.png)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BlueFlames on June 21, 2012, 01:53:36 am
The game's not even out, and I've already nicknamed my mech the Hunchander.  Suffice to say, one of my favorite Inner Sphere mechs falls a touch outside of the 3049 timeframe during which MWO will be set on launch.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Liberator on June 22, 2012, 03:15:43 am
So are these walking tanks or mecha...

I was never clear, because in MechCommander(my only reference) they seem to be walking tanks, which suggests the lack of dexterity required to effectively melee fight like, say, a Gundam or Voltron or something.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on June 22, 2012, 03:44:22 am
Battle tech is more in line with walking tanks.  The melee aspects is more about walk up to the opponent and hit them, and while some mechs like the Hatchet man have melee weapons as their signature, they are few and far between when compared to mechs using an all gun load out, and melee is about DFA and kicking (some mechs have hands so can punch)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 22, 2012, 08:36:01 am
They're walking tanks, bar none except perhaps the Spider or one of the scout 'Mechs with Improved Jump Jets.

Relevant videos:
MechWarrior 3 intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm76b8tzzWI)
MechWarrior 4 intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxfKZZ4RNng)
MechWarrior 4 Mercs intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxEAaJfGUzM)

Walking tanks like nobody's business.  These ain't your anime ballerina mechs.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on June 22, 2012, 08:47:09 am
They're walking tanks, bar none except perhaps the Spider or one of the scout 'Mechs with Improved Jump Jets.

Relevant videos:
MechWarrior 3 intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm76b8tzzWI)
MechWarrior 4 intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxfKZZ4RNng)
MechWarrior 4 Mercs intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxEAaJfGUzM)

Walking tanks like nobody's business.  These ain't your anime ballerina mechs.

Atlas (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Atlas_(BattleMech)), Hauptmann (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hauptmann) or Summoner (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Summoner_(Thor)) leaping and spinning about would be serious lol
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 22, 2012, 08:50:39 am
Well, the Summoner mounts jump jets on the base chassis, and the Hauptmanm can just pod them in, so they can at least leave the ground if they want to. :P

The Atlas is pretty much stuck dirtside though.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 22, 2012, 09:10:54 am
I was never clear, because in MechCommander(my only reference) they seem to be walking tanks, which suggests the lack of dexterity required to effectively melee fight like, say, a Gundam or Voltron or something.

BattleMechs can and do engage in melee combat, but it's not remotely graceful, merely the application of multi-ton appendages as giant clubs. Even the axe and sword options (the latter of which hasn't been developed yet and doesn't appear until 3057 or so) are really just specialized clubs rather than serious cutting implements, and it's pretty much implied they're worked like any other weapon: center the target in the reticule, pull the trigger, computer arranges to bash enemy.

So it's sort of a Walking Tanks Plus, but very far from the traditional motion capture mecha.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on June 22, 2012, 09:22:47 am
Well, the Summoner mounts jump jets on the base chassis, and the Hauptmanm can just pod them in, so they can at least leave the ground if they want to. :P

The Atlas is pretty much stuck dirtside though.

True, but it is not exactly graceful though lol
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Polpolion on June 22, 2012, 10:46:10 am
Well, the Summoner mounts jump jets on the base chassis, and the Hauptmanm can just pod them in, so they can at least leave the ground if they want to. :P

The Atlas is pretty much stuck dirtside though.

AS7-K3 mounts jets. not exactly common, but whatever. :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on June 22, 2012, 12:03:38 pm
BattleMech 13 announced: Trebuchet

12 'Mech rumor officially dispelled.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 22, 2012, 12:33:08 pm
BattleMech 13 announced: Trebuchet

12 'Mech rumor officially dispelled.

Oh goddammit why couldn't that be my Founders?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Liberator on June 22, 2012, 12:37:13 pm
I was never clear, because in MechCommander(my only reference) they seem to be walking tanks, which suggests the lack of dexterity required to effectively melee fight like, say, a Gundam or Voltron or something.

BattleMechs can and do engage in melee combat, but it's not remotely graceful, merely the application of multi-ton appendages as giant clubs. Even the axe and sword options (the latter of which hasn't been developed yet and doesn't appear until 3057 or so) are really just specialized clubs rather than serious cutting implements, and it's pretty much implied they're worked like any other weapon: center the target in the reticule, pull the trigger, computer arranges to bash enemy.

So it's sort of a Walking Tanks Plus, but very far from the traditional motion capture mecha.
So no vibro-axes to slice enemy armor like butter?  :sadface:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 22, 2012, 12:45:37 pm
There are some vibroswords, but "like butter" applies to absolutely nothing in Battletech unless you're talking about Heavy Gauss slug connecting with underarmored Light 'Mech.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on June 22, 2012, 01:08:53 pm
Yes.  BattleMechs are Walking Tanks and as such can take and dish out a significant beating.  Being a super-awesome protagonist just means your 'Mech takes less of a beating rather than you emerging unscathed in your unbeatable Gundam with a trail of exploded mecha behind you.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on June 22, 2012, 01:31:12 pm
So no vibro-axes to slice enemy armor like butter?  :sadface:
At least not in the Online-Game, and if some day added as feature they will IMHO used like any other weapon: Point & Pull the triggers.

Thats the way they are played in the Boardgame:  For the target no way to block or doge, and quite powerfull:
The Hatchetmans Axe deals 9 Points of damage in the Boardgame, that is almost as much a the 10 points of damage a PPC does.
The most common weapons deal only 5 Points ( Medium Laser ) or 2 Points ( Short Range Missile ), Heavy Weapons like Large Lasers or AC 10 do only 8 or 10 Points of damage.
The 9 Points are enough to chop a light Mechs head of...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on June 22, 2012, 01:38:18 pm
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/173/7/e/malagrotta_crucis_march_militia_trebuchet_by_viereth-d54gixh.jpg)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: FireSpawn on June 22, 2012, 04:01:33 pm
Looking at the Trebuchet's hand, I just realised that, before exchanging fire, one could give the enemy the finger.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 22, 2012, 04:50:55 pm
There's an example of an Atlas floating around somewhere that is actually flipping some poor Stinger the bird as the heavy caliber autocannon shreds the Stinger.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on June 22, 2012, 05:06:03 pm
There are some vibroswords, but "like butter" applies to absolutely nothing in Battletech unless you're talking about Heavy Gauss slug connecting with underarmored Light 'Mech.
I think I remember assassins with vibroswords killing guards by slicing through them like butter. Different topic altogether.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on June 23, 2012, 05:36:09 am
sounds like a Star Wars EU
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 23, 2012, 05:37:59 am
I think I remember assassins with vibroswords killing guards by slicing through them like butter. Different topic altogether.

There aren't any vibroweapons, except possibly on Solaris 7 where they're a 'Mech-to-'Mech gimmick. (And usually don't work.)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on June 23, 2012, 02:02:57 pm
I was talking about infantries.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 23, 2012, 05:39:46 pm
I was talking about infantries.

So was I. They haven't made it work in the multi-ton weight class with the near-unlimited power of a fusion reactor yet, what makes you think the man-portable version does?  :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 23, 2012, 05:54:05 pm
I fail to see what's so hard about making a blade vibrate. :P

On multi-ton frames, this seems exponentially more difficult than the hand-held version.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on June 23, 2012, 06:05:41 pm
I fail to see what's so hard about making a blade vibrate. :P

On multi-ton frames, this seems exponentially more difficult than the hand-held version.

the issue is getting the blade to vibrate at a frequency that will make a difference while not destroying the blade in the process and not generating so much heat as to melt everything.

the scale makes a significant difference because the greater mass take more energy to vibrate, so generating massive amounts of heat and the vibration transmitted though the handle has to be small enough not to shake the mech to bits
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on June 23, 2012, 06:12:38 pm
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Vibroblade (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Vibroblade)
Hopefully that settles it.  Yes, vibroblades exist, mainly as infantry weapons.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 23, 2012, 06:35:14 pm
Crap, and I completely forgot about my favorite character from The Hunters having one since he's DEST.

I shall now commit suicide in shame at the memory of the Talon Sergeant.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Liberator on June 24, 2012, 12:33:53 pm
So none of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK6FqNQ2Rjc)?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 24, 2012, 12:43:01 pm
Absolutely ****ing not.

Some units are better than others.  Some units are larger than others.  There are no super units.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on June 24, 2012, 12:54:39 pm
no, everything is built to the same rules, there are adjustments for designs of differing eras but no super units, just incrementally better.  The back fiction and the game rules are base don the fact that the game is designed to be player on player.  while some mechs are better generalists that other, it is because some specialize more on different aspects of combat such as sniping or close quarters.  for example in an urban environment a hunchback will murder a Trebuchet owing to the AC/20 strapped to its shoulder, while if you stick a Trebuchet on a ridge watching over somewhere with little cover and the LRMs it packs will cream the hunchback
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 24, 2012, 01:05:51 pm
What keeps mechwarrior balanced for the most part is that each mech can pretty much carry the same weaponry.
A Catapult and a Madcat both fire LRM's. It's just the amount of each weapon that a mech can carry that makes all the difference
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 24, 2012, 01:19:29 pm
And kinda the techbase.  A Timberwolf (not a Mad Cat you Inner Sphere surat) carries inherently superior LRMs by virtue of being a Clan 'Mech.  No minimum range, half the mass for the launcher.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 24, 2012, 01:21:53 pm
Timber Wolf. Two words.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 24, 2012, 01:42:39 pm
Die clanner, take that timber wolf and dire wolf of yours and stick it where not even the word of blake can reach it  :p

But yeah, clanner weapons are just better than IS tech. But aside from less weight and more damage/range, its the same weapon.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 24, 2012, 01:47:55 pm
Later in the timeline, ATMs, Plasma Cannons, Micro lasers of all kinds, and AP Gauss Rifles are all Clan exclusive.

Although to make up for that, Inner Sphere gets MMLs, Plasma Rifles, several different kinds of pulse lasers (only one of which could possibly be considered better than Clan, and then only at the shortest range), and Magshot Guass (which isn't as good as APGRs).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BlueFlames on June 24, 2012, 03:51:17 pm
So none of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK6FqNQ2Rjc)?

Yeah, the MechWarrior series has no speed lines, no anime bull****-o physics, better writing (even at the franchise's worst), and less hammy acting (except at the franchise's worst).  :P

On the subject of balance, things do go a little off the rails, when Clan tech gets thrown into the mix.  In addition to the weapons and equipment being superior, by way of weighing less and consuming fewer criticals, the Clan equivilant of an Inner Sphere lance is a star, which contains five mechs, as opposed to four.  You know, because the Clans weren't already pointing enough extra guns at you.  Derp.

The only reason the Clans were stopped and eventually driven from the Inner Sphere was the IS military's willingness to use unconventional tactics and weaponry (I remember Inferno SRM ambushes being mentioned specifically) that were abhorrent to the Clans rigid sense of honor.  We'll see how that plays out, when the Clans are introduced to MWO, as I'm sure that Clan players are not likely to hold to anywhere near as strict a code of honor as the Clan warriors of BattleTech's fiction.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 24, 2012, 04:16:24 pm
Stars don't fight Lances.  Stars fight Companies (12 'Mechs).

The only reason the Clans were stopped was because ComStar (the faction that held Terra, which was the only reason the Clans were invading at all) challenged them to a proxy battle for Terra at a place called Tukayyid, and then landed twelve entire Armies of troops (144 Regiments of 108 to 120 'Mechs each.  That's right.  At the very least over 15,000 'Mechs) of troops on planet and prepared for the worst that 25 Galaxies (135 units of either 'Mechs or points of Elemental Battlearmor each.  Between three and five thousand units of 'Mechs and Elementals) of Clan troops could throw at them.  ComStar won (barely), and the result was a 15 year truce.

EDIT: ComStar lost over 40% of their starting force.  The Clans lost roughly half.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on June 24, 2012, 04:22:03 pm
Stars don't fight Lances.  Stars fight Companies (12 'Mechs).

The only reason the Clans were stopped was because ComStar (the faction that held Terra, which was the only reason the Clans were invading at all) challenged them to a proxy battle for Terra at a place called Tukayyid, and then landed twelve entire Armies of troops (144 Regiments of 108 to 120 'Mechs each.  That's right.  At the very least over 15,000 'Mechs) of troops on planet and prepared for the worst that 25 Galaxies (135 units of either 'Mechs or points of Elemental Battlearmor each.  Between three and five thousand units of 'Mechs and Elementals) of Clan troops could throw at them.  ComStar won (barely), and the result was a 15 year truce.

EDIT: ComStar lost over 40% of their starting force.  The Clans lost roughly half.
in short, clan tech is ****ing scary.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 24, 2012, 04:25:31 pm
Oh, that 40% was fatalities.  Wounded and shot down were probably more toward 60-70%.

It was hands down the single largest engagement in the Inner Sphere since Kerensky's March to Terra in 2777.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 24, 2012, 04:42:36 pm
Oh, that 40% was fatalities.  Wounded and shot down were probably more toward 60-70%.

I actually attempted to compile a list on this from the ComStar sourcebooks and the Clan sourcebooks. The Clans lost more than half of what they committed (indeed, 50% losses would be optimistic for many units), ComStar's total casualties were weighted heavily towards non-'Mech units; the infantry force in particular took it on the chin protecting the 'Mechs and armor from Clan Elementals, while the armor was used as a stop line so the 'Mechs could engage the Clans on favorable terms.

This also doesn't account for the other big loss, where Clan Smoke Jaguar and Clan Nova Cat went all in against Luthien and got wiped by a force much closer to their size.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 24, 2012, 05:33:12 pm
For some of the forces, like Clan Diamond Shark, which was relatively unblooded against the Inner sphere, 90% losses would be conservative.  Clan Wolf, which actually succeeded and captured the objectives assigned to it, lost a relatively trivial 30%-ish of their forces.  Most Clan losses ranged between 50 and 70%.  Ghost Bear and Jade Falcon losses would be on the lower end, while Smoke Jaguar losses on the higher end.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 24, 2012, 05:42:47 pm
no anime bull****-o physics
Ignoring everything else you said, please don't delude yourself into thinking that mechwarrior is realistic in any kind of way. There is no practical and realistic way battle mechs could work the way they do in real life as they do in battletech, not without stretching physics to some extend.
Tanks and planes would make short work of them impractical lumbering hulks.

Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Polpolion on June 24, 2012, 06:07:06 pm
no anime bull****-o physics
Ignoring everything else you said, please don't delude yourself into thinking that mechwarrior is realistic in any kind of way. There is no practical and realistic way battle mechs could work the way they do in real life as they do in battletech, not without stretching physics to some extend.
Tanks and planes would make short work of them impractical lumbering hulks.

judging by what I saw of the clip posted I'd easily wager that battletech is far more realistic than gundam, which I'm sure is what BlueFlames was going after. In fact I think really the only really huge pieces of magic in Battletech are Myomer muscles (the things that make mechs practical) and FTL travel and communications. The later is honestly one of the most forgivable physics violations known in SciFi. The former is really present among all mech-related universes. tbh, it's far more reasonably shown in battletech than in any other mech-related universe I've seen. If you really want to get in a huff about something do it about the weapon ranges. Admitedly, there's really no way to get around this other than saying it's for board-game playing purposes. :p

Those arguments aside, the fact that in battletech mechs aren't giant metal ninjas dancing around slicing each other to pieces with 20 foot long swords is part of what makes battletech unique. They're actually giant robots and not just big metal people. But what it boils down to in the end is what you prefer. I haven't watched any gundam past that clip and I have no desire to at any time in the future.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 24, 2012, 06:36:45 pm
I'm just saying, you sound mighty stupid to me if you are belittling one giant robot universe's physics as unrealistic and using that as an argument to somehow prove that the other giant robot universe is somehow more realistic.
Be it a 18 meter tall gundam with a weight of 60 tons or a 12 meter high battlemech with a weight of 100 ton. Either way they are going to be a collosal nightmare to move around. Both would sink deeply into the ground with each step, all those moving joints are a weakpoint disaster and all you are doing by being so tall is make yourself into a huge target. Both universes need to disregard or stretch the laws of physics and invent some magic technology to make it all work.

Quote from: Polpolion
Those arguments aside, the fact that in battletech mechs aren't giant metal ninjas dancing around slicing each other to pieces with 20 foot long swords is part of what makes battletech unique.
But.... Battletech mechs aren't unique. They are typical western type walking tanks. There are a bunch of other universes (be it books, movies or games) out there that have mechs in similar functions and functionalities. Just like there are a whole slew of 'giant metal ninja' japanese/asian style mechs out there. (But there are also a bunch of anime that make their mechs feel like they have more of a weight and mass to them. Such as Gundam 08th ms team and the Break Blade movies. Both of which I can highly recommend.)
In closing: Both are unrealistic as balls and would not practically work in real life. It's merely a difference in style. You are absolutely free to have a preference or dislike for one or the other style, but saying that one is 'more realistic' than the other is dumb either way.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Polpolion on June 24, 2012, 06:52:17 pm
I'm just saying, you sound mighty stupid to me if you are belittling one giant robot universe's physics as unrealistic and using that as an argument to somehow prove that the other giant robot universe is somehow more realistic.
Be it a 18 meter tall gundam with a weight of 60 tons or a 12 meter high battlemech with a weight of 100 ton. Either way they are going to be a collosal nightmare to move around. Both would sink deeply into the ground with each step, all those moving joints are a weakpoint disaster and all you are doing by being so tall is make yourself into a huge target. Both universes need to disregard or stretch the laws of physics and invent some magic technology to make it all work.

Hardly. Neither BlueFlames nor I ever said battletech was realistic. I made a comment on their relative levels of realism, but that's just about it. And honestly it's perfectly reasonable to belittle one giant robot universe on that basis. People have opinions and preferences, believe-ability is a perfectly valid criterion for forming those opinions and it in no way makes you stupid.

Quote
But.... Battletech mechs aren't unique. They are typical western type walking tanks. There are a bunch of other universes (be it books, movies or games) out there that have mechs in similar functions and functionalities. Just like there are a whole slew of 'giant metal ninja' japanese/asian style mechs out there. (But there are also a bunch of anime that make their mechs feel like they have more of a weight and mass to them. Such as Gundam 08th ms team and the Break Blade movies. Both of which I can highly recommend.)

Can you tell me about these other universes? The only one I can think of is Starsiege and it really doesn't come anywhere close to Battletech in terms of techno-babble quantity and quality.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 24, 2012, 07:05:48 pm
However, the rest of BattleTech, walking tanks aside, is significantly more plausible.  Indeed, the most "unrealistic" part of BattleTech is that 'Mechs are the kings of the battlefield because of myomer "muscles" that are strong enough for fast, reliable movement (leaving aside the "official" ranges, which are flat out stated in the first few pages of my rulebook here to be artificially truncated for gameplay).

They're no more a nightmare to move around than a tank, and probably actually significantly less so because there's only one "crewmember" needed to move it.

Hell, they probably wouldn't even sink into the ground like that at all.  Modern tanks would have roughly comparable surface contact areas when considering that every point of the track on the bottom of the tank will be in contact with the ground at any given point on flat terrain, and tanks like the Abrams mass as much or more than the majority of different kinds of 'Mech designs, let alone the most common types.  Some 'Mechs even weigh as little as a third as much as the Abrams.  Hell, 'Mechs like the Catapult are honestly less likely to sink into the ground than their tanky counterparts simply because the feet of the 'Mech spread the weight over a larger area.  Smaller 'Mechs like Stingers, Wasps, and Locusts weigh five tons less than your average Bradley IFV, which gets around on roughly ~4.5 square meters of ground contact (conservative estimate).  Having a pair of feet that occupy ~2.5 square meters each isn't hard, and the Bradley has absolutely zero problems traversing rough or difficult terrain.

Admittedly I can't really protest the joints are weakpoints part, because that's true, but the tactical and strategic mobility of being able to step over a low wall or literally jump over a river, or navigate rough terrain without slowing down is not an advantage to be thrown away.

BattleTech 'Mechs may not be as practical as the Real World (tm), but they're a hell of a lot less ass-pull than indestructo-Gundam.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Commander Zane on June 24, 2012, 07:07:32 pm
Can you tell me about these other universes? The only one I can think of is Starsiege and it really doesn't come anywhere close to Battletech in terms of techno-babble quantity and quality.
There's Metaltech and CyberStorm which I think are pretty close, though as far as I can remember there isn't any HERC with design features like that of say, the Commando or Centurion.
Could be wrong. Been at least ten years since I played any of those titles.

Plus their Lore only goes as far as their PC titles, so it's not surprising that there isn't much to know about them in detail.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Liberator on June 24, 2012, 07:09:29 pm
I was using the clip only as an example of a mech-sized vibroblade that Patrick failed to use because Setsuna's unit was 100 years more advanced thanks to it's Space/Time Topological Defect power source.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: FireSpawn on June 24, 2012, 07:21:54 pm
Let's just face it, no matter what design, no matter what universe it hails from and no matter how much butthurt it makes physics feel, we'd all love to have a mech.
And talking of mechs, am I the only person that thinks Metal Gear: Rex looks like it would be at home in the battletech universe?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 24, 2012, 07:22:49 pm
Hardly. Neither BlueFlames nor I ever said battletech was realistic. I made a comment on their relative levels of realism, but that's just about it. And honestly it's perfectly reasonable to belittle one giant robot universe on that basis. People have opinions and preferences, believe-ability is a perfectly valid criterion for forming those opinions and it in no way makes you stupid.
All giant mech universes work on the of rule of cool and have their reality/physics/whatever twisted to accomendate the concept of a mech being a valid warmachine.
Blueflame quite literally named a list of things that according to him, make the battletech universe 'better' than the gundam universe. He literally named 'anime bull****-o physics' as a point. Supposedly because Battletech does not have 'bull****-o physics' and is therefore 'more realistic'. You can speak for yourself here, but you don't seem to be speaking for Blueflame.
Anyway, I suggest you actually educate yourself a bit more on the subject of Gundam before continueing this discussion. Cause as you admitted yourself, you don't actually know what you are talking about and have merely dismissed the universe before hand. (http://youtu.be/-qLrnn2tEmY Look, a clip from 08th ms team. Doesn't look like dancing samurai's to me but like lumbering metal giant warmachines.)

Can you tell me about these other universes? The only one I can think of is Starsiege and it really doesn't come anywhere close to Battletech in terms of techno-babble quantity and quality.
To name a few western things that feature lumbering mechs as warmachines (games, movies, whatever):
Earth/starsiege (As you already mentioned)
Star wars (AT-AT's, AT-ST's)
Avatar (AMPS)
Supreme commander&Total Annihilation
Bolo (though those are more like giant tanks than mechs but eh)
Metal Fatigue
Warhammer 40k
Steel battalion
Starcraft
Command and Conquer Tiberian sun
Shattered Steel
Universe at War
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Commander Zane on June 24, 2012, 07:26:05 pm
Shattered Steel
Deformable terrain FTW. :D
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 24, 2012, 07:34:50 pm
I happen to love 08th MS Team, you know.  I'm not a fan of BattleTech and BattleTech only.  Hell, I even admitted outright that BattleTech isn't practical to Real Life (tm).

That does not, however, make anything Gundam any less patently ridiculous on a level significantly above BattleTech.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 24, 2012, 07:38:17 pm
However, the rest of BattleTech, walking tanks aside, is significantly more plausible.  Indeed, the most "unrealistic" part of BattleTech is that 'Mechs are the kings of the battlefield because of myomer "muscles" that are strong enough for fast, reliable movement (leaving aside the "official" ranges, which are flat out stated in the first few pages of my rulebook here to be artificially truncated for gameplay).
Do elaborate, how is the rest of Battletech more plausible exactly?

They're no more a nightmare to move around than a tank, and probably actually significantly less so because there's only one "crewmember" needed to move it.
Aside from leaving a massive trail of destruction wherever an heavy/assault mech goes, sure. Aside from needing several truck loads of additional parts to get all the moving joints and bits working, sure.

Hell, they probably wouldn't even sink into the ground like that at all.  Modern tanks would have roughly comparable surface contact areas when considering that every point of the track on the bottom of the tank will be in contact with the ground at any given point on flat terrain, and tanks like the Abrams mass as much or more than the majority of different kinds of 'Mech designs, let alone the most common types.  Some 'Mechs even weigh as little as a third as much as the Abrams.  Hell, 'Mechs like the Catapult are honestly less likely to sink into the ground than their tanky counterparts simply because the feet of the 'Mech spread the weight over a larger area.  Smaller 'Mechs like Stingers, Wasps, and Locusts weigh five tons less than your average Bradley IFV, which gets around on roughly ~4.5 square meters of ground contact (conservative estimate).  Having a pair of feet that occupy ~2.5 square meters each isn't hard, and the Bradley has absolutely zero problems traversing rough or difficult terrain.
Oooh boy. How wrong you are.
The light mechs, sure. But a Catapult and an Abrams are pretty much the same tonnage. Now. Think for a moment what happens when the Catapult takes a step forward...
Aye, pretty much the whole weight of the mech will be resting on the leg taking a step forward. Now try and imagine what the average grass field would look like after a Catapult strides through it. It's nowhere the same surface area.
Think of a snowboard or a pair of skis on a mountain of snow. When you walk over that snow, you sink all the way in it. When you glide over it with your board, its smooth sailing.

Admittedly I can't really protest the joints are weakpoints part, because that's true, but the tactical and strategic mobility of being able to step over a low wall or literally jump over a river, or navigate rough terrain without slowing down is not an advantage to be thrown away.
Which is pretty much negated by the fact that a mech wouldn't realistically be able to traverse a semi steep hill without falling over backwards. Or it would need to have legs with far more advanced and delicate joints than would be practical for a warmachine (one solid mine would blow such a fine piece of machinery right off).

BattleTech 'Mechs may not be as practical as the Real World (tm), but they're a hell of a lot less ass-pull than indestructo-Gundam.

Both need magitech to work. They are both equally ass pull.

I happen to love 08th MS Team, you know.  I'm not a fan of BattleTech and BattleTech only.  Hell, I even admitted outright that BattleTech isn't practical to Real Life (tm).
That's cool, but that post was aimed at Polpolion.

Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 24, 2012, 08:34:29 pm
Do elaborate, how is the rest of Battletech more plausible exactly?

People actually worked on it. As BattleTech in the FASA days alone has played host to over fifty novels, dozens of sourcebooks, three RPG editions and paraphernalia, and has enjoyed a continuity of writers, it has developed significantly more as a result.

Or in other words if you work on something long enough you actually have to think about this ****. We actually had somebody go around compiling various references and the like and put out a resource (Objective Raids 3067) that you could consult if you wanted to know where a particular component of a particular design was produced. That's getting dangerously close to a functional economic model for the military-industrial complex of the Inner Sphere.

So we have an unmatched level of detail to draw upon. And it does, for the most part, fit together without serious issue.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 24, 2012, 08:44:35 pm
I'm sure that Gundam has produced a smiliar numbers of novels/manga/games/sidestories/whatever, This doesn't tell me what part is more plausible (not the same as developed) however.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 24, 2012, 08:56:19 pm
I'm sure that Gundam has produced a smiliar numbers of novels/manga/games/sidestories/whatever, This doesn't tell me what part is more plausible (not the same as developed) however.

A: It hasn't.

B: They're often the same thing. Plausibility is achieved by thinking about how **** works. Development can be achieved by explaining how **** works.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 24, 2012, 09:28:11 pm
A: It hasn't.
Come on, you can do better than that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gundam_manga_and_novels#Mobile_Suit_Gundam_.28Universal_Century.29
That's not even including the various anime (sidestory ovas and the like) and games.
There's a **** ton of gundam **** out there just like there is a **** ton of battletech **** out there.

B: They're often the same thing. Plausibility is achieved by thinking about how **** works. Development can be achieved by explaining how **** works.
You still haven't told me how Battletech is more plausible than Gundam.

While I enjoy this discussion, the last thing I want to do is turn this thread into a dumb as **** fanboy related abortion. I for one enjoy both universes (and if you can't do that for whatever reason, its your own loss really.) so lets not turn this into a 'my universe is better than your universe' debate. Because that's dumb as hell.
So try harder NGTM-1R, I know for a fact that you are one of the people on this board that can come up with better posts than the ones above.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BlueFlames on June 24, 2012, 10:44:23 pm
Blueflame BlueFlames quite literally named a list of things that according to him, make the battletech universe 'better' than the gundam universe. He literally named 'anime bull****-o physics' as a point. Supposedly because Battletech does not have 'bull****-o physics' and is therefore 'more realistic'. You can speak for yourself here, but you don't seem to be speaking for Blueflame BlueFlames.

You know, if you're going to put words in my mouth, you can at least spell and capitalize my name correctly.

And it's worth noting that I wasn't comparing universes.  I was comparing a clip of a battle from a Gundam anime to my experience with the MechWarrior franchise.  You extrapolated to make that into a comparison between the universes of both franchises.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 24, 2012, 11:13:21 pm
Come on, you can do better than that.

Don't bull**** me son, I'm not an idiot who believes anything linked on Wikipedia. Go over there and count that ****. (66 UC Gundam manga and novels by my count, including the stuff of dubious relation and canonicity like G-Savior.) Tell me that manga demands the same level of intellectual rigor as writing a game book with a straight face; tell me that there's not more information on the basic workings of a world in one gamebook then an entire manga series with a straight face.

Check this Wikipedia link: Novels only. No gamebooks. No sourcebooks. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BattleTech_novels) That's over 100. Count 'em.

Gundam didn't produce nearly the same amount of supporting detail or work, certainly not for one universe.

B: They're often the same thing.
You still haven't told me how Battletech is more plausible than Gundam.

I don't really know how you can get more direct than that.

Wait, I do.

They are the same thing.

Let me spell it out for you: plausibility is both created by adding detail to a work on its own, which makes it more closely resemble a reality (because reality is really damn detailed) and created by explaining how things within a work themselves function, which is often necessary while expanding the work. Literary (for lack of a better term) mediums are better at this than visual ones.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on June 25, 2012, 01:21:53 am
er guys can we calm down?

my understanding the clip was posted to demonstrate the movement and attack styles typically seen in Japanese anime in an attempt to understand the difference in movement/attack styles and while evolution in the thread is expected, this "discussion" is reading more like personal attacks to me.

So yes while mechs in BT move pretty fast (50-120 km/h typical) in a strait line and turn pretty well, there is no jumping without the use of massive jump jets which cause heat build up and are limited to about 150 meters distance and agility/coordination is a lot more limited.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on June 25, 2012, 08:08:30 am
/me reads last few pages

... I hate you guys :P
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 25, 2012, 08:14:49 am
Quote
Don't bull**** me son, I'm not an idiot who believes anything linked on Wikipedia.
Uh okay
Quote
Go over there and count that ****.
But you just said...
Quote
Tell me that manga demands the same level of intellectual rigor as writing a game book with a straight face; tell me that there's not more information on the basic workings of a world in one gamebook then an entire manga series with a straight face.
Different methods of story telling. Instead of spending a whole page describing that a mech shoots a laser and hits an other mech, its drawn in a pretty picture for you. The manga Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin for example, has 23 volumes each containing between 200-270 pages. That's 5405 pages if you take the average of 235*23. I can tell you with a straight face that if done right, an entire manga series can definitely contain as much information as whatever.

Quote
(66 UC Gundam manga and novels by my count, including the stuff of dubious relation and canonicity like G-Savior.)
Check this Wikipedia link: Novels only. No gamebooks. No sourcebooks. That's over 100. Count 'em.
66, 100. Both are large numbers for franchises about giant robots shooting lasers. As I said, its a similar amount. The link for the Gundam manga/novel list doesn't have the large amount of technical readouts and whatnot listed either. http://www.ultimatemark.com/gundam/archive/entertainmentbible01.html stuff like this. And if we're to compare videogames then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gundam_video_games it wouldn't even be fair (I will be the first to admit that the vast vast majority of gundam games are bad though)
But this is getting really silly and this was something I thought you were above NGTM-1R. I really don't feel in engaging anymore in this fanboy level of 'e-peen comparison'. If you are so absolutely hell bent on maintaining the believe that 'battletech is bettar and larger, it has moar stuffs!' then whatever. I'll leave you to it. I will just continue enjoying both universes for what they are. Either way both universes have way too much stuff for me to read. Be it 66 or 100, I won't be reading half of it.

Quote
I don't really know how you can get more direct than that.

Wait, I do.

They are the same thing.

Let me spell it out for you: plausibility is both created by adding detail to a work on its own, which makes it more closely resemble a reality (because reality is really damn detailed) and created by explaining how things within a work themselves function, which is often necessary while expanding the work. Literary (for lack of a better term) mediums are better at this than visual ones.
Where do I even begin. Are you seriously saying this with a straight face? That just adding whatever detail makes something more plausibile? That the word plausible somehow equals developed? English is not my first language but I'm pretty sure you are doing something wrong here. Plausibility doesnt mean what you think it means.
Quote from: dictionary
plausibility:
having an appearance of truth or reason; seemingly worthy of approval or acceptance; credible; believable: a plausible excuse; a plausible plot.
According to you... adding *anything* to the universe makes it more plausible? Explaining how something works, even if it doesn't make sense makes the work as a whole more credible? See, what you are saying to me doesn't seem very.... plausible  :p
Take the Babylon 5 movie, Legend of the Rangers for example. Does this movie make the Babylon 5 universe more plausible, believable and more 'real' by adding in a bunch of really silly things to the universe? By your definition it apparantly does.
I for one don't think the sudden rise of the word of blake with the complete blackout of the universe was in any form plausibile. It made me go "Uuuuh, what? Really? Suddenly some group of jihad dudes pop up out of nowhere with this big army and they sabotage the communications of the whole ****ing inner sphere? That doesn't seem very realistic or believable to me" But according to you, this universe shaking event adds more credibility to the work?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on June 25, 2012, 08:32:34 am
er guys can we calm down?

So, I'm kind of looking forward to this game a little bit. I think it may be a fun game, and I look forward to causing explosions in other mechs' faces.


stop shouting at each other please.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Polpolion on June 25, 2012, 09:37:42 am
But this is getting really silly and this was something I thought you were above NGTM-1R. I really don't feel in engaging anymore in this fanboy level of 'e-peen comparison'. If you are so absolutely hell bent on maintaining the believe that 'battletech is bettar and larger, it has moar stuffs!' then whatever. I'll leave you to it. I will just continue enjoying both universes for what they are. Either way both universes have way too much stuff for me to read. Be it 66 or 100, I won't be reading half of it.

Jesus ****ing christ since when was NGTM-1R trying to prove that Battletech was better than Gundam? This entire discussion happened because you got miffed that people didn't like Gundam's physics and since 1) you're the one claiming Gundam is at least as plausible as Battletech and 2) this is a Mechwarrior Online thread the burden of proof is on you to show that Gundam is whatever you want us to think it is, not us. So stop nit-picking perfectly reasonable points and tell us something that, you know, actually helps your argument.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 25, 2012, 09:55:58 am
er guys can we calm down?
This applies to you Polpolion. What are you getting all upset for?

Quote
since when was NGTM-1R trying to prove that Battletech was better than Gundam?
He was trying to prove that Battletech is more plausible than Gundam, his only argument for this so far is that more novels/books/whatever somehow equals more plausibility for a universe. Which makes no sense and isnt what plausibility is about.

Quote
So stop nit-picking perfectly reasonable points and tell us something that, you know, actually helps your argument.
Really? Not even trying anymore huh?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on June 25, 2012, 10:06:52 am
er guys can we calm down?
This applies to you Polpolion. What are you getting all upset for?
guys is plural spoon, I was referring to to both sides.  End of the day you are arguing over the merits of 2 fictional settings like it actually matters and it's clear neither of you are going to convince the other so can you both agree to disagree before the mods and admins take action?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 25, 2012, 10:26:14 am
He was trying to prove that Battletech is more plausible than Gundam, his only argument for this so far is that more novels/books/whatever somehow equals more plausibility for a universe. Which makes no sense and isnt what plausibility is about.

If you were listening, he pointed out only a number of novels.  The number of sourcebooks, objectives books, technical readouts, era reports, historicals, and half a dozen others that I don't really care to name at the moment exceeds 300.  Sourcebooks by definition flesh out and lend plausibility to the setting.  The Objectives series in particular is a wonderful point to bring up, because it actually documents and gives a brief description of all major production sites, what they produce, how much of it they produce, and where they send it.  That's just one part of the flood of BT background and information.

BattleTech has a well explained economy; socio-political balance of power; and spatial geography; and, probably most importantly, well-defined and internally consistant behavior and physics.  I fail to see how Gundam can even compete on the grounds of plausible explanation.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: FireSpawn on June 25, 2012, 11:48:37 am
So, going back to MWO....
....
....
 :sigh:
I've got nothin'. Someone help me out here!
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on June 25, 2012, 11:53:35 am
to put oil into the Flames  ;7 I'm thinking Heavy Gear from "Dreampod 9" is most realistic Mecha Game ;)
Heavy Gear 2 on the PC wasn't also bad.

The Battletech  Background has the benefit of being build on a game, and the game rules strictly tells what's possible and what's impossible.
So it's not possible to doge the enemy's fire, but running at full speed and using the cover of trees or buildings would reduce hits.
Also most of the units are build with construction rules, and while they are not perfect they are good enough.

But compared to the rules of Heavy Gear or even Car Wars ( pre dating Battletech ) the rules aren't really great.
Heavy Gear for example incorporates ECM and Sensors in the Basic Rules, Car Wars limits the weight and the internal space for weapons.

Battletech doesn't care about sensors until you play with hidden units and every reactor takes the same space inside of the mech, regardless of the tonnage.
( Additional Level 3 rules cover that, but they have never been incorporated in the basic game ).
FASA was always reluctant about reworking the whole rules.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on June 25, 2012, 12:01:04 pm
So, going back to MWO....
....
....
 :sigh:
I've got nothin'. Someone help me out here!

there seems to be a bust up on the forum about if the founders mechs got an XP bonus according to the advertising literature that has has since been pulled or if the complaining member(s) just miss read the fact that legendary accounts get 3 months premium membership thus an XP and C-Bill bonus across their account
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 25, 2012, 12:01:56 pm
guys is plural spoon, I was referring to to both sides.  End of the day you are arguing over the merits of 2 fictional settings like it actually matters and it's clear neither of you are going to convince the other so can you both agree to disagree before the mods and admins take action?
I'm as calm as I can be, I'm merely trying to hold a discussion. I'm not the one suddenly breaking out in swearing when contributing nothing to the discussion itself. As long as everyone can remain civil there should be no reason for a mod to step in, no?

If you were listening, he pointed out only a number of novels.
That's indeed all he did. Point out the number of stuff and say that this equals plausibility.

The number of sourcebooks, objectives books, technical readouts, era reports, historicals, and half a dozen others that I don't really care to name at the moment exceeds 300.  Sourcebooks by definition flesh out and lend plausibility to the setting.  The Objectives series in particular is a wonderful point to bring up, because it actually documents and gives a brief description of all major production sites, what they produce, how much of it they produce, and where they send it.  That's just one part of the flood of BT background and information.

BattleTech has a well explained economy; socio-political balance of power; and spatial geography;

Aright, fair enough.

and, probably most importantly, well-defined and internally consistant behavior and physics
I'll grant that Gundam can be shaky in that department. But this is of course mostly because of the different animator teams behind each show and the many years inbetween said shows. I could of course point out that the battletech cartoon did some very very lulzy things with the physics in battletech, but that would just be a low blow.  :p
In any case in this department its comparing apples to oranges. Because battletech has close to nothing in the animated tv show department

 

I fail to see how Gundam can even compete on the grounds of plausible explanation.

You fail to see because you are not looking. Taking UC and the one year war, there is plenty of stuff around that details how the politics between zeon, the federation and the colonies revolved and production centers and whatever you just named. (The game Giren's Greed has a truck load of data in it) Both are credible settngs if you can accept the magitech that drives them. Just because there is more of battletech (more factions, thousands of planets) doesn't make the setting more credible than gundam. If anything, gundam is closer to home as it pretty much never leaves this solar system.

I'm just gonna sum up this converstation in a silly matter. "This setting with flying pigs is more believable and realistic than this setting with flying hogs because it has more books detailing how and why the pigs fly"
"Yeah well, the flying hogs also have a bunch of books detailing why the hogs can do **** in the air"
"Flying hogs break my suspension of disbelief, flying pigs are more plausible!"
"But either way, we're talking about flying pigs and hogs. None of which are remotely believable when you apply realism to it."
"Doesn't matter, my flying pig setting has books greatly detailing how and where the flying pigs are bred, thus its more plausible."

to put oil into the Flames  ;7 I'm thinking Heavy Gear from "Dreampod 9" is most realistic Mecha Game ;)
Heavy Gear 2 on the PC wasn't also bad.
I fondly recall playing the demo of one of the two Heavy gear games. After leaving the starting point I ran into some infantry. Said infantry somehow managed to one shot kill my gear by hitting my cockpit or something... with small arms fire.  :p
T'was a fun setting though, just a little hard to get much info about it. Not nearly as well documented as Battletech or whatever. My greatest exposure to it was some cgi/cartoon that was running on tv here. I've tried to track it down on the internet but unforuntately found nothing.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: The E on June 25, 2012, 12:12:14 pm
The thing with the Somerset Strikers show is that it exists in-Universe. As in, it's treated as a bad cartoon series in the BT universe itself.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 25, 2012, 12:15:10 pm
It really is.  It's an amusing bit of meta-humor.  I've heard some people discussing that the majority of the actual novels themselves are dramatic tri-vids (movies).  It's a completely non-canon supposition, but it was pretty humorous for the duration of the discussion.

And I'd liken the plausibility difference to "This pig has vestigial wings that allow it to glide in a limited sense, or at the very least not crash into the ground at terminal velocity" versus "this pig mother****ing flies, *****es!"
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 25, 2012, 12:17:11 pm
It really is.  It's an amusing bit of meta-humor.  I've heard some people discussing that the majority of the actual novels themselves are dramatic tri-vids (movies).  It's a completely non-canon supposition, but it was pretty humorous for the duration of the discussion.
The thing with the Somerset Strikers show is that it exists in-Universe. As in, it's treated as a bad cartoon series in the BT universe itself.
Which is a clever way to handle it  :p

And I'd liken the plausibility difference to "This pig has vestigial wings that allow it to glide in a limited sense, or at the very least not crash into the ground at terminal velocity" versus "this pig mother****ing flies, *****es!"
But the "this pig mother****ing flies, *****es!" part doesn't apply to either universes. Both explain why and how
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 25, 2012, 12:21:51 pm
I'll have to chalk that up to presentation, then, because the most in depth I've seen with regards to how a Gundam works amounts to "It's a Gundam" *shocked gasping*.

Although I feel I should point out I'm mostly comparing the respective Kings of the Field.  BattleMechs versus Amuro's Gundam is honestly significantly different than looking at BattleMechs versus 08th MS Team Gundams.  Which I personally consider a point in BattleTech's favor, since it's internally consistent in that respect (there are no Super Units).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 25, 2012, 12:50:05 pm
I'll have to chalk that up to presentation, then, because the most in depth I've seen with regards to how a Gundam works amounts to "It's a Gundam" *shocked gasping*.
Well duh, what do you want at such a moment? "It's a Gundam!" *shocked gasping* "It's BOWA·XBR-M-79-07G beam rifle, powered by rechargeable energy cap will easily cut through my armor like paper! Maybe if I try to escape... but will the Gundam's 2 x 24000 kg, 4 x 1870 kg rocket thrusters be able to catch if I try?!". I don't think that giving technical information during a 'it's a Gundam!' moment would flow really well in presentation  :p
Battletech does exactly the same thing even: http://youtu.be/orhOvbfyyJw?hd=1&t=1m4s "It's an Atlas!"
All the extra technical information you have to read in other places. And a game is pretty much always going to have more technical information in its presentation than a tv anime
Also there's this: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Gundam_Crisis I would absolutely love to have something similar for battletech. (and preferable not in a place that requires a day of travelling to get to :p )

Although I feel I should point out I'm mostly comparing the respective Kings of the Field.  BattleMechs versus Amuro's Gundam is honestly significantly different than looking at BattleMechs versus 08th MS Team Gundams.  Which I personally consider a point in BattleTech's favor, since it's internally consistent in that respect (there are no Super Units).
The RX-78-2 gundam was outperformed by the MS-14A Gelgoog by the end of the one year war. What made it such a super trooper was Amuro's piloting skills and newtype bull****.
The RX-178 Gundam Mark II in Gundam Zeta was a testbed for a bunch of technologies and was very rapidily outperformed by mass produced units. The MSZ-006 Zeta Gundam had slightly higher specs than the average mobile suit but was again mostly powered by Kamile's newtype plotpowers which made it such a super trooper. Cause by that time, the average beam cannon was going to **** up your **** if it managed to hit you.
Gundam has much more rapidly advancing technology than Battletech has. It's more akin to World War II where tanks made in 1940 couldn't stand up to tanks designed in 1944.

Now Gundam Wing and 00 have a serious case of being Kings of the Field super units. Each 'justified' by having some kind of magitech going for them. (In Wing's case that would be the gundanium alloy. Which I guess would be kind of comparable to throwing an M1A3 Abrams tank with depleted uranium armor into WWII and see how much german tank shells it can absorb. And in 00's case its GN particles, which do magic and ****) but during the early UC, a lot of the mobile suits are really down to earth and can only achieve 'flight' in the same way battletech mechs can. Through short jumppack/vernier jumps.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Mongoose on June 25, 2012, 06:05:22 pm
Honestly, we all know that the only way this debate ends is by Gurren-Lagann showing up and slinging galaxies around, at which point we all agree that it was extremely silly in the first place. :p

(also super robots FTW)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on June 25, 2012, 06:20:05 pm
Honestly, we all know that the only way this debate ends is by Gurren-Lagann showing up and slinging galaxies around, at which point we all agree that it was extremely silly in the first place. :p

(also super robots FTW)
ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWA! :D
(http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/16511386/images/1317695213653.jpg)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 25, 2012, 06:35:39 pm
his only argument for this so far is that more novels/books/whatever somehow equals more plausibility for a universe.

That's not what I argued.

I said that more background material equals more plausibility because it more closely approximates the total background material you'd need to create something as detailed as reality. (Which is part of the yardstick for how plausible something is.) And also that more background material forces more exploration of the mechanics of things, which makes it more plausible by explanation.

The more I tell stories about something, the more real it seemingly becomes the more is known about it. Because you have more information about it. The more information you have, provided it's not completely contradictory, the more real it seems.

Or you could just spend some time thinking about how one constructs plausible lies and realize that it's essentially the same process (expand and explain), only with guard rails that hold it closer. Either way.

Or you could just consider that eventually somebody's going to have to explain the control systems for their book. And somebody else is going to have to say what you do if you need to take a crap for their book. And somebody else is going to...and so it goes. As the number of works on a particular universe increases, the probability that someone will be forced to plausibly explain a particular thing from the universe approaches one. The probability that someone will have to explain anything exceeds one by the second story.

I'm not really sure how many ways I can explain the basic nature of information accumulation and its relation to effective storytelling, but I'm sure we'll find out.

I've heard some people discussing that the majority of the actual novels themselves are dramatic tri-vids (movies).

Versus the Doyleist notation that some of them were definitely gamed out on the tabletop? Stackpole in particular liked to do it with small-unit battles (Arden Sortek's Victor vs. a Kurita Awesome in one of the Warrior books, Renny Sanderlin's Penetrator and Victor's Daishi vs. Smoke Jaguar Omega Star in Grave Covenant come to mind), while careful examination of most of the novels will be hard-pressed to find outright goofs in damage output vs. armor and structure terms.

I think the closest we actually came to direct violation of the game mechanics pre-Dark Age was in one of the novels which implied a triple engine hit Blackjack that was still operational. (Only to get its faceplate blown in by a suicidal infantry trooper a couple seconds later.)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: FireSpawn on June 25, 2012, 06:55:30 pm
I'm going to go out on a wing here, and assume that there have already been several threads about this topic and each one following very similar paths.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 25, 2012, 07:00:01 pm
I'm going to go out on a wing here, and assume that there have already been several threads about this topic and each one following very similar paths.

Nope!
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on June 25, 2012, 07:37:19 pm
And somebody else is going to have to say what you do if you need to take a crap for their book.

.... I had never considered this. What DO you do on those long 'mech missions? :nervous:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 25, 2012, 07:43:18 pm
You take care of it before you get in the seat, or you bring along provisions for it. :P

What, you think that every minute of those long missions is spent shooting something?  You'll have breaks to take care of personal hygeine if it's absolutely necessary.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on June 25, 2012, 07:49:21 pm
Well, there's also some arm exercise for when you get really bored, but I don't think the techs would appreciate cleaning up after that if you leave a mess. :drevil:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on June 25, 2012, 08:04:33 pm
What do I have to roll to ambush the enemy lance while their pilots are busy taking a dump?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Mongoose on June 25, 2012, 08:10:59 pm
A two, obviously.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 25, 2012, 08:32:12 pm
.... I had never considered this. What DO you do on those long 'mech missions? :nervous:

Depends on the design. Assault 'Mechs with roomy cockpits might actually have a small toilet at the back. (We know, for example, the Grand Titan does.) A Stinger or Wasp, however, means you'll probably have to get out of the 'Mech.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 25, 2012, 09:14:29 pm
Bring a beer bottle to pee in  :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Thaeris on June 25, 2012, 10:26:52 pm
Then give the bottle to one of your alcoholic friends:

Victim - "Man, this **** tastes like piss."
Perpetrator - "Doesn't all that stuff taste like piss?"
Victim - "Yeah, sometimes. Hey, want some?"
Perpetrator. "No man. You've earned it."
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 25, 2012, 10:48:53 pm
Bring a beer bottle to pee in  :p

Unless you duct-tape it to yourself, it's probably not going to easy to reach in the Stinger/Wasp, which are so miniscule that the pilot is essentially entombed in one, standing upright, with only part of them in the head.

The old TRO:3025 fluff said that basically the only way out of a Stinger was to eject, which would ruin the 'Mech since the rockets are only a few inches from the reactor shielding, or spend about an hour while the techs unbolt the plates.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on June 25, 2012, 11:25:56 pm
Unless you duct-tape it to yourself, it's probably not going to easy to reach in the Stinger/Wasp, which are so miniscule that the pilot is essentially entombed in one, standing upright, with only part of them in the head.

The old TRO:3025 fluff said that basically the only way out of a Stinger was to eject, which would ruin the 'Mech since the rockets are only a few inches from the reactor shielding, or spend about an hour while the techs unbolt the plates.

So then, we're talking about some sort of catheterized flightsuit solution, with either an external release or a small holding tank somewhere in the mech?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BlueFlames on June 25, 2012, 11:34:03 pm
So then, we're talking about some sort of catheterized flightsuit solution, with either an external release or a small holding tank somewhere in the mech?

Either that, or you're just supposed to let it fly, and call it "supplemental coolant" when your wee hits (or evaporates near) the reactor.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 25, 2012, 11:58:14 pm
So then, we're talking about some sort of catheterized flightsuit solution, with either an external release or a small holding tank somewhere in the mech?

Seems optimistic, but possible.

Alternative is that you just wet yourself and let it evaporate to help keep you cool since you're basically only wearing your cooling vest and shorts, plus maybe a t-shirt.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on June 26, 2012, 04:38:15 pm
.... I had never considered this. What DO you do on those long 'mech missions? :nervous:
Depends on the design. Assault 'Mechs with roomy cockpits might actually have a small toilet at the back. (We know, for example, the Grand Titan does.

The IMP may even have a bath tube and a small kitchen ;) (there is room enough in this mech head)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Imp
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on June 29, 2012, 11:18:49 am
Stomping in a winter wonderland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsOgoNr2OQw&feature=player_embedded#!)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on June 29, 2012, 11:54:15 am
The thermal view looks cool, though i think they missed a trick by not having the heat sinks glow brighter.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on June 29, 2012, 01:10:14 pm
mmmm Beta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=yEICUlHFx_Y)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 29, 2012, 02:12:00 pm
My nipples are getting hard just looking at it.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on June 29, 2012, 04:53:50 pm
I wanna be in a speedy 'Mech!
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: IronBeer on June 29, 2012, 07:07:54 pm
mmmm Beta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=yEICUlHFx_Y)
(http://cdn.smosh.com/sites/default/files/bloguploads/do-want-girl.jpg)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BlueFlames on June 30, 2012, 03:38:06 pm
There's a poll (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/19075-are-you-willing-to-trade-the-durability-of-the-standard-engine-for-the-extra-tonnage-of-the-is-xl-engine/) on the MWO forums, asking who's willing to swap a standard engine for an XL engine.  Judging from the results, I'd recommend shooting at people's side torsos in public matches, just to see what happens.  After a couple of laser volleys or Gauss rounds to peel away the armor, it looks like your odds are better than a coin-toss that you can finish off the mech with just a bit of MG fire.

Also, intuition tells me that the kind of person who mounts an XL engine isn't the kind of person to "waste" tonnage ensuring that CASE accompanies all of his ammunition stores, so seek out those ammo bins!  (Either that or take some Flamers and watch the fireworks.)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 30, 2012, 03:43:31 pm
XL Engines can be used intelligently.  On fast things, they can free up absurd amounts of tonnage, or on slow things they can let you get moving 50% faster for no extra.  The Hunchback in particular can go from top speed ~64 kph to top speed ~97 kph without losing any tonnage.  Other things like the Grand Dragon suddenly get five or ten tons to play with they didn't have before, and an XL Engined Charger is just brutal compared to the SFE version.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on June 30, 2012, 03:49:40 pm
Free up tonnage for a more fragile engine
Add on more arrmor
???
Profit?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on June 30, 2012, 03:50:36 pm
Also, intuition tells me that the kind of person who mounts an XL engine isn't the kind of person to "waste" tonnage ensuring that CASE accompanies all of his ammunition stores, so seek out those ammo bins!  (Either that or take some Flamers and watch the fireworks.)

not so sure there, depends on how I tend to die I might swap for an XL engine so I can stick case in there without loosing weapon tonnage if internal explosions get me a lot, which with a good number of the more potent weapons being ammo based has its merits

Free up tonnage for a more fragile engine
Add on more arrmor
???
Profit?

depends if you are already at your armour limit
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BlueFlames on June 30, 2012, 04:48:20 pm
Even with the possibility of extra armor (assuming it wasn't at or near maximum at the start, as many stock mechs are), you're making your mech into a glass cannon.  Critical hits on any part of the torso can chip away at your engine, and if you lose your armor on any part of the torso, it will only take a volley or two of MG/LBX/missile fire to finish you off.  By contrast, blowing out the side torso of a mech mounting a standard engine has no effect beyond destroying the equipment in that torso section.

While I'll concede that there are very rare instances where an XL engine can be a boon, such as on support mechs that intend to stay hidden and exclusively use indirect fire, there are generally much better ways to trade criticals for tons that don't involve hanging a sign on your mech that says, "I'm vulnerable in my everywhere!"  Based on my experience with MW3 (MW4 never really gave you the option to swap engines) and tabletop rules, the survivability that you lose isn't nearly worth the five to ten tons you recover.  That loss of survivability is actually something so huge that I find a standard engine is something worth spending tons on, when starting with a stock design that has an XL engine.

Headdie, I was painting with a pretty broad brush with the statement you highlighted, but there's a long history of MechWarrior players who follow a design philosophy of up-gun, up-gun, up-gun.  Too many times, I've seen designs that strip off anything that's not armor, ammo, or a gun, with no heed paid to the importance of those components being removed.  You can argue about the necessity of a BAP or ECM package in any given design, but CASE, while being an equally cryptic acronym that just seems to take up a crit and half a ton, is kind of a big deal on a mech toting around a lot of ammunition.  It's that MOAR GUN mentality, though, that leads to a lot of mechs with XL engines and CASE-less ammo bins littering the battlefield (and not with their victims).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 30, 2012, 05:03:32 pm
XL engines are very effective on Light 'Mechs that aren't going to survive big hits anyway, and you're overblowing the stripped armor = dead engine thing.  That can happen, certainly, but first they have to hit that section again, then they have to confirm a critical hit on that section, and then they have to actually hit the component three whole times.  Unless you get an 11 or 12 on the roll (5% chance), and all three criticals hit the engine (if your torso is critpacked, roughly half a percent chance), you're not going to die at the tip of a hat.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on June 30, 2012, 06:05:57 pm
mmmm Beta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=yEICUlHFx_Y)
OMG, dat glowing armor from laser damage. :O

Those ads all over the main menu or whatever it is. "BUY TEH FOUNDER PACK KTHX"  :|
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BlueFlames on June 30, 2012, 06:16:24 pm
Knocking out the side torso section's internal structure also results in engine destruction, with an XL engine, so you don't necessarily have to get three lucky criticals (though you can do that pretty quickly with LBX ACs, MGs, and missiles, as they either score multiple hits at once or fire very rapidly).  You can focus on taking out any of the torso sections, rather than being limited to blowing out the center torso or head for a kill.

You've also got to remember that in the MechWarrior video games, this is a bigger deal, since pilots can deliberately aim for certain sections of a mech.  It's not like the tabletop game, where you've got to make your hit roll, and then roll on a table to see which part of the mech you hit, and so on.  It's reticle-over-target-pull-trigger (plus or minus some lead angle for non-laser weapons).  If I suspect you're toting around an XL engine, then I'm going to pile fire onto the weakest side torso section, and it's only going to take a couple volleys to end the encounter.  If you've got a standard engine, by contrast, then shots to your side torso sections don't necessarily do a lot to bringing me closer to victory.

Even setting aside total engine destruction, though, a single critical hit to the engine has pretty nasty consequences.  You're slowed, albeit slightly, and build up gobs of heat whenever you make make any kind of movement.  With an XL engine, you've nearly tripled the likelihood of taking such a hit, versus a standard engine.  In the most contentious, knock-down-drag-out fights, that kind of vulnerability puts you at a huge disadvantage.  In a fight that should otherwise be an easy victory, a lucky through-armor critical hit on any part of your torso can quickly even the odds for your opponent.

I stand by my position that the vulnerability of an XL engine isn't worth the tonnage it saves you.  Mounting a standard engine is like having that many more tons of armor keeping you alive.

Those ads all over the main menu or whatever it is. "BUY TEH FOUNDER PACK KTHX"  :|

It's a free-to-play game.  Of course they're going to advertise what you can buy in the game.  Piranha needs people to know what they can buy, so that people can buy it, and Piranha can pay the bills to keep the game going.  As long as it doesn't impede your ability to actually play the game, then is it really that off-putting?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 04, 2012, 08:48:06 pm
Just announced the JagerMech as number 14.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on July 04, 2012, 10:26:26 pm
Always liked the Jagermech, no matter how bad it is.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on July 05, 2012, 11:07:31 am
Need a Rolling Stones mercenary company....
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 05, 2012, 05:49:07 pm
Always liked the Jagermech, no matter how bad it is.

Well, we're in 3025 tech or nearly so, so it'll probably suck significantly less than might be expected.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on July 05, 2012, 05:51:15 pm
It really depends on the rate of fire they give those things.  AC/2s and AC/5s, with the proper rate of fire, can and probably will shred the **** out of lighter machines in seconds.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 05, 2012, 08:50:24 pm
Also I'm hearing there's some kind of damage scattering in, making this less the magic snipe the head/leg game and more like the tabletop, but I'm guessing anyone here in closed beta cannot confirm or deny.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on July 05, 2012, 09:35:17 pm
A source told me awhile ago that ACs do not have splash damage, only lasers and probably missiles. I'll verify it whenever he's on.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on July 06, 2012, 12:07:54 pm
as a side note, i find this horribly amusing in the context of the game :D
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p313/Starbug360/Motivational%20Posters/OrbitalInserstion.jpg)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 06, 2012, 12:48:08 pm
Don't forget there's also scouting the Steiner way with a lance of Atlases.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on July 07, 2012, 12:31:13 pm
Isn't that called "force recon"?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on July 07, 2012, 01:53:44 pm
Isn't that called "force recon"?

Force recon would be 3 mediums and a heavy, the Steiner is more like Assault Recon
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Liberator on July 07, 2012, 02:05:56 pm
I lol'd.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 19, 2012, 02:12:25 am
Up to 15 now, just announced the Spider. (http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/07/342-battlemech-15-spider)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Patriot on July 19, 2012, 11:40:45 am
You forget this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m24i6iTeyc&feature=g-u-u
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on July 19, 2012, 07:49:47 pm
I like the redesign of the Centurion
Never heard of the spider tbh

Too bad for the poor Centurion, but the Atlas resign supreme on the battlefield
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 19, 2012, 09:15:32 pm
Never heard of the spider tbh

They seem to be going down the FASA starter kit game box I have somewhere, so I expect to see Banshee, Whitworth, Assassin, Vindicator, Grasshopper, Panther, Zeus, Clint, Cyclops, and Hermes II before others.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on July 19, 2012, 09:19:36 pm
The box set has had the same 'Mechs in it for years, and I'd noticed the pattern as well.  It's honestly a pretty solid line-up, all things considered.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on July 20, 2012, 07:11:47 am
Never heard of the spider tbh

They seem to be going down the FASA starter kit game box I have somewhere, so I expect to see Banshee, Whitworth, Assassin, Vindicator, Grasshopper, Panther, Zeus, Clint, Cyclops, and Hermes II before others.
I don't know any of these mechs  :blah:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Commander Zane on July 20, 2012, 07:13:05 am
I think I've seen the Panther and Hermes II in MW4 MekTek, but yeah the rest are completely new to me.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 20, 2012, 08:20:36 am
I don't know any of these mechs  :blah:

IIRC the Zeus was in M4 Mercs and the Cyclops in MC2, but yeah, most of them haven't been in a videogame to my knowledge. Which is a shame since many of them are storied designs; the destruction of Clan Smoke Jaguar's homeworld was commanded from a Cyclops, a huge number of famous members of House Kurita have driven Panthers, and soforth.

I also forgot the Enforcer and the Quickdraw.

Overall they'll put a good number of variants and a good mix of weight classes, weapons, and movement abilities into the game.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Polpolion on July 20, 2012, 08:53:07 am
Most of the mechs I really like either are unseen or not from this era. :(
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on July 20, 2012, 10:49:18 am
I don't know any of these mechs  :blah:

IIRC the Zeus was in M4 Mercs and the Cyclops in MC2, but yeah, most of them haven't been in a videogame to my knowledge. Which is a shame since many of them are storied designs; the destruction of Clan Smoke Jaguar's homeworld was commanded from a Cyclops, a huge number of famous members of House Kurita have driven Panthers, and soforth.

I also forgot the Enforcer and the Quickdraw.

Overall they'll put a good number of variants and a good mix of weight classes, weapons, and movement abilities into the game.

I recognize a lot of these from MW2 Mercs actually. There were a ton of mechs in that one.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on July 23, 2012, 05:22:31 pm
Never heard of the spider tbh

They seem to be going down the FASA starter kit game box I have somewhere, so I expect to see Banshee, Whitworth, Assassin, Vindicator, Grasshopper, Panther, Zeus, Clint, Cyclops, and Hermes II before others.
I don't know any of these mechs  :blah:

Most of them are genuine FASA Designs that pre-dated the Videogames a lot.
They are designed for Tin, not for Direct X ;)

All of them are in the 3024 technical Readout, the first collection of new Mechs for the Boardgame.
The Panther (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Panther) is a common Mech in the Forces of House Kurita, the Vindicator (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Vindicator) a common Mech in the forces of House Liao. The Zeus (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Zeus) is a Assault Mech of House Steiner.
If Mechwarrior Online wants to offer some faction specific Mechs those three would be a logical choice.

Like the Enforcer (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Enforcer) for House Davion or the Trebuchet (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Trebuchet) for House Marik.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 23, 2012, 06:42:26 pm
I broke out my boardgame earlier and...

Well let's just say I'm hoping the grouping controls for weapons are really good and easy to use, because I'd forgotten how crappy most of these 3025ers were at dissipating heat.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on July 23, 2012, 08:58:19 pm
I'm sure they will be, some time in the future.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on July 24, 2012, 10:52:56 am
Caustic Valley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCYQtzfp9BM&feature=player_embedded)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Commander Zane on July 24, 2012, 10:58:42 am
Nice, enviromental effects on heat and vision types.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Thaeris on July 24, 2012, 12:24:52 pm
I like how, despite being lifeless, there are a multitude of pine forests in the region. :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Liberator on July 24, 2012, 01:52:01 pm
Not being from the South, I wouldn't expect you to understand how hard it is to actually kill a pine tree... ;)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Thaeris on July 24, 2012, 01:53:10 pm
Oh, there's plenty of pine up here, too. But, I'll take your word for it. ;)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 24, 2012, 03:27:45 pm
Oh, there's plenty of pine up here, too. But, I'll take your word for it. ;)

Those southern white pine are essentially indestructible with environmental effects. Seriously.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on July 24, 2012, 05:33:51 pm
Oh, there's plenty of pine up here, too. But, I'll take your word for it. ;)

Those southern white pine are essentially indestructible with environmental effects. Seriously.
Indestructible with large lasers and 100 ton mechs too  :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Mongoose on July 24, 2012, 05:36:40 pm
I know little to nothing about MW, but those videos are pretty damn smexy.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 24, 2012, 06:06:42 pm
Indestructible with large lasers and 100 ton mechs too  :p

Hey, you give me FS Geomod and I'll talk to these guys about it. :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 02, 2012, 03:08:25 am
If you bought Founders, you're in. o7 and see you on the battlefield and all those ironic EVE phrases, unironically.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on August 02, 2012, 09:51:53 am
If you bought Founders, you're in. o7 and see you on the battlefield and all those ironic EVE phrases, unironically.

What's your handle?  Since StarSlayer and most of its variants where taken I'm rolling as Ser Barristan.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 02, 2012, 10:33:08 am
SO i'm at work,  can't really see game sites (thank god HLP isn't blocked) but i still get the odd "Play MW:O for free" ad at random.

Sooooooooo, tell me the details, it's an FPS right? Free? In a Tribes Ascend flavour?

EDIT- Wikipedia'd it thanks :)

Quote from: Wikipedia
In the mid-26th century, the Terran Hegemony, under the leadership of Ian Cameron, became the nucleus for the star-spanning government known as the Star League. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_League)

So Ian Cameron gets frozen now and somehow creates the Star League :/
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 02, 2012, 12:05:12 pm
Errr, no, Dekker.  It's complicated, but the short version is the Star League is dead and there are five Successor States fighting over who gets to create the next Star League, the most common form of land combat vehicle is the BattleMech, and its a seller's market for mercenary services in the 31st Century.  In MWO you just happen to be a mercenary BattleMech pilot who gets paid cold, hard C-bills to kill other mercenary BattleMech pilots.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 02, 2012, 12:37:47 pm
Truuuust, I've read the history now. I was just surprised to see old cameron mentioned.

Back to the question, is free can play now?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BlueFlames on August 02, 2012, 12:53:57 pm
Not yet.  It's still closed beta, though anyone who buys a pre-order package now gains automatic access to the beta.  I think that the aim is for the full release before the end of the year.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on August 02, 2012, 01:32:48 pm
Sooooooooo, tell me the details, it's an FPS right? Free? In a Tribes Ascend flavour?

I believe it will be free to play like Tribes and most free to play games.  You pilot from the cockpit so its similar to a FPS in that regard but your in a multi ton walking tank.  Movement is going to a bit slower and because of the tonnage and you have a lot of inertia.  There is a bucket load of weapons on your mech, but they generate heat to use so you need to be cognizant of your heat build up and pace your fire so you don't shut down or worse blow up.  Since your heavily armoured its going to take a bit of fire before you're brought down, and by the same token your foe.  Unless you stumble out in front of a lance of enemy assault mechs by your lonesome, they'll scrap you PDQ.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on August 02, 2012, 03:52:45 pm
Not yet.  It's still closed beta, though anyone who buys a pre-order package now gains automatic access to the beta.  I think that the aim is for the full release before the end of the year.
With the state the game is in now and at the rate it is progressing, the end of the year feels rather optimistic to me...
but hey, I'd love to be suprised.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 02, 2012, 04:55:03 pm
I'm a vet since mw2, then mercenaries etc (4's intro still haunts me) I even had it on lé snes.

House Davion for life.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 28, 2012, 10:40:49 am
First, River City (http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/z657yy/mechwarrior-online-exclusive-river-city-trailer).

Second: The SLDF's Angry Kids Are Coming. (http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/08/400-isn-news-flash)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Nuke on August 28, 2012, 11:13:29 am
I'm a vet since mw2, then mercenaries etc (4's intro still haunts me) I even had it on lé snes.

House Davion for life.

ive played the snes version, never been able to beat it, not event with save state features of your typical emulator.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 28, 2012, 01:51:42 pm
Second: The SLDF's Angry Kids Are Coming. (http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/08/400-isn-news-flash)
Damn, it's that time already?  The game isn't even released yet!
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 28, 2012, 02:13:44 pm
Technically it's just Phelan Kell getting his Wolfhound blown up so far, and will be until sometime next year, but it does mean the Invasion is actually happening.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 28, 2012, 02:24:09 pm
Yeah, I just looked at the timeline on Sarna.net and the Invasion doesn't actually happen until March of 3050, so we have a long time to wait.  It will be interesting to see how the super-powerful Clans are added in to such a PvP-centric game, though.  Co-op mode perhaps?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on August 28, 2012, 05:58:59 pm
Mini-campaigns. Mini-campaigns. Downloadable SP mini-campaigns. Dear cylon god please.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 28, 2012, 08:03:59 pm
Yeah, I just looked at the timeline on Sarna.net and the Invasion doesn't actually happen until March of 3050, so we have a long time to wait.  It will be interesting to see how the super-powerful Clans are added in to such a PvP-centric game, though.  Co-op mode perhaps?

My personal vote is NPC Mad Cats appear at random and try to wipe out everyone. Because it will be hilariously rage inducing.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on August 30, 2012, 04:47:11 am
My personal vote is NPC Mad Cats appear at random and try to wipe out everyone. Because it will be hilariously rage inducing.
I've got to agree with you here :D
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on August 30, 2012, 07:40:46 am
My personal vote is NPC Mad Cats appear at random and try to wipe out everyone. Because it will be hilariously rage inducing.
I've got to agree with you here :D
hell yes, kids rage quitting is always funny to watch
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on August 30, 2012, 10:43:40 am
My personal vote is NPC Mad Cats appear at random and try to wipe out everyone. Because it will be hilariously rage inducing.
I've got to agree with you here :D
hell yes, kids rage quitting is always funny to watch
same. it shall be gloriously hilariously scary destruction.
That day many a man shall know to fear the ERPPC. And anything else prefixed with ER.



as a side note i really really want a Marauder in the game...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Patriot on August 30, 2012, 05:12:49 pm
C-ER*
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 30, 2012, 05:30:15 pm
Don't forget that all the Clan mechs use DHS, so they'll have double the heat dissipation of the IS mechs.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on August 30, 2012, 08:04:55 pm
Technically not all of them, and technically not all IS 'Mechs don't have them.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 30, 2012, 09:14:09 pm
Any Clan 'Mech at the forefront of Operation Revival will be using CDHS.

Of course, doing a little research shows IS DHS were ready for mass-production back in 3041 thanks to NAIS so hopefully they'll be available for purchase by players when MWO releases.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on August 31, 2012, 03:02:23 pm
whats the deal with DHS compared to normal HS, apart from the obvious? whats the catch?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 31, 2012, 03:08:58 pm
The obvious is that they offer double the heat dissipation for the same tonnage.  The catch is that unless they're integrated into a 'Mech's fusion engine they take up three times the space of a regular heat sink, unless they're Clan Double Heat Sinks in which case they take up only two times the space of a regular heat sink.  That being said, a fusion engine automatically has ten heat sinks that take up no extra space or tonnage, so in the rules you can replace the singular heat sinks in your engine with DHS for no space penalty, doubling your base heat dissipation, although DHS aren't exactly cheap.  DHS and regular HS cannot be used together though, so a 'Mech will always be one or the other.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on August 31, 2012, 03:43:45 pm
An engine can "hide" a number of heatsinks up to its engine rating divided by 25.  Any more than that have to be mounted at normal size.  This means that in some cases not all ten base heat sinks are hidden in the engine.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 31, 2012, 04:56:38 pm
Is 10 the maximum number of hideable heat sinks or can a 350 engine hide 14 HS?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on August 31, 2012, 05:11:51 pm
A 350 engine can hide 14 heatsinks.  However, the 4 heatsinks after 10 would cost four tons.

Additionally, if an Omnimech has a larger engine, but only mounts the basic ten heatsinks on its base chassis, it must allocate space for any heatsink above and beyond those fixed to the chassis.  If, for example, an Omnimech had a 300 rated engine, but only 10 heatsinks, adding two more heatsinks to a given configuration, those heatsinks would take up space, even though a 300 rated engine is nominally able to hide 12.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 31, 2012, 05:58:58 pm
So a non-Omni 'Mech can have its engine save space for a number of heatsinks that are its rating divided by 25, but anything it hides above 10 heatsinks takes up one ton but no space per heatsink?

And OmniMechs have to spend tonnage and space for any heatsinks above anything their base chassis carries?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on August 31, 2012, 06:35:57 pm
A 20 ton 'Mech with a 120 rated engine (Stinger, Wasp) that does not choose to mount additional heatsinks begins with the base 10 heatsinks has enough room in the engine (taking up no space) for four of them (engine rating 120/25 = 4.8, rounded down to 4).  The other six cost no extra tonnage, but must be allocated space outside of the engine.

A 100 ton 'Mech with a 300 rated engine (Atlas, King Crab) that chooses to mount additional heatsinks over the base 10 heatsinks spends one ton per additional heatsink.  With such an engine, the 'Mech is able to hide 12 heatsinks away in the engine (engine rating 300/25 = 12).  Despite paying the two tons to get to 12, no additional space is consumed by the heatsinks.  Mounting more than 12 heatsinks costs both tonnage and space.

A 55 ton Omnimech with a 330 rated engine (Stormcrow/Ryoken, Men Shen) that only chooses to mount the base 10 heatsinks on the base chassis spends no additional tonnage, and is able to conceal all 10 heatsinks (engine rating 330/25 = 13.2, rounded down to 13) with room for a few heatsinks to spare.  However, because the base chassis is fixed, adding any heatinks to that total in any configuration that doesn't change the base chassis (at which point it's no longer an Omni), any additional heatsinks added after that cost both tonnage and space.  Any heatsinks above those mounted on the base chassis cost tonnage and space regardless of whether the engine could conceal them if they were present on the base chassis.  If, before fixing the base chassis, the 'Mech had mounted all 13 "free" heatinks (which would still cost 3 additional tons), then they would take up no space.  However, the base chassis did not, and the extra heatsinks take up space.

For an Omnimech, it's a juggling act between whether to save crits or maximize payload space.

I hope that clears up any ambiguity on the subject.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 31, 2012, 07:07:35 pm
Yep, that clears it up very well.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Turambar on September 02, 2012, 07:31:35 pm
Just got in.  Does anyone still play?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on September 02, 2012, 07:45:42 pm
I can't run it at higher than four or five frames per second, even with everything set at lowest, so I'm afraid I do not.  If I can magically find a better computer, I would, though, and definitely.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 02, 2012, 08:36:46 pm
Like anyone could make me stop with my Founders pack.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on September 02, 2012, 09:51:26 pm
I rarely find myself playing
Unforunately not really enjoying this beta a lot... I guess its a lesson learned about spending 60 on a founders pack on a game that revealed pretty much nothing on its actual gameplay when it started going on sale.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on September 02, 2012, 10:37:23 pm
It's still only beta, right? I'll play when it's released.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: An4ximandros on September 02, 2012, 10:57:47 pm
The horrible risk of a game being bad, for my tastes, is why I always look for a demo if I have to pay, heh.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on September 02, 2012, 11:39:26 pm
I didn't buy a founder's pack, and I still got in. :P
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on September 02, 2012, 11:42:40 pm
I like it. It has the mech feel, especially since I added a tag to my user.cfg to switch it up from the default fov=60 to something more like 85. (note: anything past 75 will make your atlas' cockpit seem claustrophobic)

anyone who wants to run with me, add Melvin the Bold to your friend list in-game, we'll tear it up.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on September 03, 2012, 02:06:12 am
Never heard of the spider tbh

They seem to be going down the FASA starter kit game box I have somewhere, so I expect to see Banshee, Whitworth, Assassin, Vindicator, Grasshopper, Panther, Zeus, Clint, Cyclops, and Hermes II before others.
I don't know any of these mechs  :blah:

Panther's the main Draconis light mech.
Vindicator is the main Liao light mech. Both mechs have PPCs as main armament.
GHopper is a faster, heavy close-range fighter.
Zeus is like the Battlemaster in some respects.
Clint was in MW2 Mercs, kinda sucks.
Hermes II kinda sucks too. It's a fast medium mech, like the clint, though better armoured.

Cyclops is a command mech.


Banshee is cool. The stiener variant is a better assault than the Atlas I'd say. Though many would disagree.

Assassin is a mobile medium mech, lightly armed but cool looking.
And the whitworth is a . . . . medium mech with some lrms. Like a smaller version of the archer.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on September 03, 2012, 02:13:57 am
The Vindicator is a Medium (40 tons).
The Grasshopper isn't any faster than the Zeus or Battlemaster.
The Clint and Hermes II are both Mediums that are desperately trying to be Lights, and succeeding in all the wrong ways (except that one Hermes II that goes 9/14.  That one works)
The Assassin is an even more jumpy Jenner with a less focused main armament.
The Whitworth is a Catapult-Lite.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on September 03, 2012, 11:28:07 pm
The Vindicator is a Medium (40 tons).
The Grasshopper isn't any faster than the Zeus or Battlemaster.

Oh yeah I get it confused with the Quickdraw all the time. Two mechs I almost never play with

Meant to say the Vindicator is a medium. It's 45tons by the way not 40 :)
PPC, LRM-5, Medium Laser, Small Laser. 4/6/4 14 or so heat sinks, etcetera
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: musicalem on September 21, 2012, 05:41:14 pm
was never a big fan of Mechwarrior, Mechcommander is much more my kind of game, i still play it online with a community at gameranger.

www.mechcommander.co.uk

 :yes:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 21, 2012, 05:45:35 pm
Nevermore. (http://mwomercs.com/media/screenshots/7-weekly-screenshot/128-weekly-screenshot-19)

Also they've continued to drop a lot of hints about the Clans coming in, decreased activity in the Periphery pirates, HPG disruptions in the Periphery...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on September 22, 2012, 09:19:54 am
was never a big fan of Mechwarrior, Mechcommander is much more my kind of game, i still play it online with a community at gameranger.

www.mechcommander.co.uk

 :yes:
If you're on these forums, I hope you've already seen the MechCommander Omnitech project (seriously. Check it out.) but you may also be interested in another forthcoming free-to-play battletech game, Mechwarrior Tactics (http://mwtactics.com/), whenever it gets around to coming out.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on September 22, 2012, 09:56:27 am
was never a big fan of Mechwarrior, Mechcommander is much more my kind of game, i still play it online with a community at gameranger.

www.mechcommander.co.uk

 :yes:
If you're on these forums, I hope you've already seen the MechCommander Omnitech project (seriously. Check it out.) but you may also be interested in another forthcoming free-to-play battletech game, Mechwarrior Tactics (http://mwtactics.com/), whenever it gets around to coming out.

I would suggest care when directing MC1/G/2/O to MWT as MWT is a turn based game based on the table top rule set (with alterations made to make it more computer gamer friendly), is online only and PvP focused so is a different style of game.  Having said that having played the MC games I am looking forward to MWT.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 27, 2012, 10:57:15 am
I just solo'd an Atlas in my COM-2D, I'm pretty much sold on this game now.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: bigchunk1 on October 10, 2012, 06:03:34 pm
Open beta is starting on October 16th

This game is so great. I'm so hooked I'm more of a clinical case than a valid reference.

The NDA no longer exists so you can make videos and stuff now of the beta:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFHN32QfTpc

They made a graphical update just after I filmed the video too  :ick:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 10, 2012, 06:38:58 pm
I haven't seen the new graphics properly because I need to tweak my settings again...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on October 10, 2012, 08:32:24 pm
The game is slowly getting better with each patch, but its still far from ready for open beta
The most fun im having with this game is playing it with sparda/hades/aesaar/eserai. Playing it solo is pretty meh.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on October 12, 2012, 11:58:09 pm
So the latest news is that they're bumping open beta back a little further and tweaking matchmaking a bit. I say it's always nice to see people taking the time to do things right.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on October 13, 2012, 06:40:44 am
I had actually already send them a ticket for a refund, kinda lost faith in them.
And while my faith&hopes still aren't very high, I guess I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and stick with it. At least now I can decide myself whenever I want to spend my premium time or not on a early crappy build.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 18, 2012, 11:28:01 am
Get out your bagpipes, people. (http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/10/479-battlemech-17-highlander)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on October 18, 2012, 12:21:51 pm
I'm playing celtic music non-stop for the forseeable fuucher.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Ravenholme on October 19, 2012, 04:00:17 am
Get out your bagpipes, people. (http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/10/479-battlemech-17-highlander)

Meet the Demoman has so much to answer for -.-
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 19, 2012, 07:38:41 am
Meet the Demoman has so much to answer for -.-

The BattleTech tradition of Scots in Highlanders goes back at least fifteen years by now, to the Grey Death books. Maybe further. I remember there being a scenario regarding the destruction the SLDF 191st, the Royal Black Watch, during Amaris' conquest of Terra waaaaaay back in the game's dark ages.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on October 19, 2012, 09:24:58 am
The BattleTech tradition of Scots in Highlanders goes back at least fifteen years by now, to the Grey Death books. Maybe further. I remember there being a scenario regarding the destruction the SLDF 191st, the Royal Black Watch, during Amaris' conquest of Terra waaaaaay back in the game's dark ages.

He's probably talking more about the embarrassingly bad made-up Scots accent
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on October 19, 2012, 09:27:18 am
(http://www.cartoonscrapbook.com/01pics/samuraijack01.jpg)

Sup? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-LyFMCIpok)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 19, 2012, 01:41:28 pm
He's probably talking more about the embarrassingly bad made-up Scots accent

Which is part of the same tradition, so I already answered that.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Ravenholme on October 20, 2012, 07:42:14 pm
The BattleTech tradition of Scots in Highlanders goes back at least fifteen years by now, to the Grey Death books. Maybe further. I remember there being a scenario regarding the destruction the SLDF 191st, the Royal Black Watch, during Amaris' conquest of Terra waaaaaay back in the game's dark ages.

He's probably talking more about the embarrassingly bad made-up Scots accent

Nailed it in one - you think if they had Scottish characters they'd actually, I dunno, get someone scottish to voice them or write their speech.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on October 21, 2012, 09:21:16 pm
The BattleTech tradition of Scots in Highlanders goes back at least fifteen years by now, to the Grey Death books. Maybe further. I remember there being a scenario regarding the destruction the SLDF 191st, the Royal Black Watch, during Amaris' conquest of Terra waaaaaay back in the game's dark ages.

He's probably talking more about the embarrassingly bad made-up Scots accent

Nailed it in one - you think if they had Scottish characters they'd actually, I dunno, get someone scottish to voice them or write their speech.


Cuz he's a black Scottish cyclops, they've got more "%^^&*(+^%$#&*$#$&)%$##$%^&" than they got the like's of him.  Such a small subset of the Scottish population is difficult to cast.

Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on October 25, 2012, 03:26:16 pm
aaaand another reset. yeah, **** you mwo until you are full out and i wont lose my mechs and c-bills AGAIN.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on October 25, 2012, 03:48:00 pm
Seems to me like you went into the beta expecting to just play the game.  It's a beta test for a reason.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 25, 2012, 03:49:39 pm
aaaand another reset. yeah, **** you mwo until you are full out and i wont lose my mechs and c-bills AGAIN.

Have you ever been a part of a beta before?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on October 25, 2012, 04:55:27 pm
Seems to me like you went into the beta expecting to just play the game.  It's a beta test for a reason.

Quoted for truth.

IT'S BETA. SH*T HAPPENS.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 25, 2012, 05:08:38 pm
And with the 'Mech wipe, I have all my money from my Raven back (currently at around 4.4m C-bills) and can now buy something that doesn't suck so hard.  Any ideas?  I'm currently leaning towards the Hunchback with the medium lasers and 2 SRM-6 launchers, but I'd like input from people who actually know what weapons are going to be more useful since yes, I am trying to min-max. :lol:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 25, 2012, 05:28:21 pm
That's actually not a bad choice if you're good with SRMs.

But then again I liked my Raven once I'd tooled it up with a couple Large Lasers.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 25, 2012, 05:33:00 pm
Good with SRM's all depends on your target: no way will SRM's be any use against a runner like the Jenner or Cicada, but 2 SRM-6 will pound anything larger or slower.  That is, assuming they plan on removing the fire delay from SRM's so they can actually be used in a brawl.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on October 26, 2012, 09:13:53 am
I took a Cat and loaded it up with as many SRMs as possible.  When it works it works hilariously well.

Observations in battle lead me to assume opposing pilots' must have an internal monologue something similar to the following:

"Ha Ha look at this stupid noob running point with a long range support mech, what a b..."

WOOSH BAM KAPOW

"... OMGWTF Hobble AWAY! Hobble AWAY!"
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on October 28, 2012, 09:21:27 am
I took a Cat and loaded it up with as many SRMs as possible.  When it works it works hilariously well.

Observations in battle lead me to assume opposing pilots' must have an internal monologue something similar to the following:

"Ha Ha look at this stupid noob running point with a long range support mech, what a b..."

WOOSH BAM KAPOW

"... OMGWTF Hobble AWAY! Hobble AWAY!"


Yeah, the six-hardpoint catapult is whole lot of surprise when you've got it fitted with srm-6s.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 05, 2012, 07:03:53 pm
They fixed it, Batts. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXhWRdnc2RI&feature=plcp)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on November 05, 2012, 07:43:59 pm
They fixed it, Batts. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXhWRdnc2RI&feature=plcp)

helllll yeahhhhh
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on November 05, 2012, 10:57:51 pm
And now we wait till they actually get a computer voice ingame  :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on November 10, 2012, 01:08:57 pm
So how many people would be interested in forming an HLP merc corps if MWO adds that mechanic?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on November 10, 2012, 01:20:32 pm
I would, but I probably won't be very active.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on November 10, 2012, 09:27:52 pm
I would, assuming PGI makes the game fun to play for freebies (economy fixes, heat fixes, weapon balance in general, etc.).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 10, 2012, 10:03:04 pm
I'm in.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on November 11, 2012, 11:32:28 am
There's an open 'Hard-Light' channel in the comms program that people can use to coordinate lances. Just putting that out there.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on November 13, 2012, 02:42:43 am
I'm part of another unit right now, and so far, from what I've heard, they are still trying to implement electronics (such as the Beagle Active Probe system, the Artemis IV Guidance, and anti-LRM ECM just so some of us LRM boats don't go off saturating everyone to crack).

Thankfully, some of the Unseen may be making an appearance in around next year or so.

The one thing I'm a little hateful for (anyone who played the classic table top, pitch in) is that if you have an XL engine attached, only ONE torso section has to be critted just to make your Mech dead, unlike what happened in 2, 3 and 4.

Plus,
I took a Cat and loaded it up with as many SRMs as possible.  When it works it works hilariously well.

Observations in battle lead me to assume opposing pilots' must have an internal monologue something similar to the following:

"Ha Ha look at this stupid noob running point with a long range support mech, what a b..."

WOOSH BAM KAPOW

"... OMGWTF Hobble AWAY! Hobble AWAY!"

Streak systems are very efficient, and I learned that the hard way once. Being a Fire Support pilot, I tend to ignore runners until they get in my face. I always focus on saturating anything that's not a runner.

I wonder if everyone's taking the Cata (which I infamously remember for being easy headshot bait in Mercenaries for Mech2) mainly because it reminds all the past players of how iconic and balanced-ish the Clan Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) was back in the day... since we don't have the old when-FASA-was-still-on Unseen Mechs to play with yet.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: The E on November 13, 2012, 04:27:28 am
The one thing I'm a little hateful for (anyone who played the classic table top, pitch in) is that if you have an XL engine attached, only ONE torso section has to be critted just to make your Mech dead, unlike what happened in 2, 3 and 4.

This is expected behaviour for IS XL engines, which in the tabletop put 3 engine critical hit locations in each side torso. Losing a side torso will thus inflict three engine crits on a Mech, and given that the rules state that three engine crits cause an immediate death, well....

(Clan XL engines, on the other hand, only place 2 critical locations into each side torso, making the prospect of losing one less deadly)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on November 13, 2012, 09:09:29 am
I wonder if everyone's taking the Cata (which I infamously remember for being easy headshot bait in Mercenaries for Mech2) mainly because it reminds all the past players of how iconic and balanced-ish the Clan Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) was back in the day... since we don't have the old when-FASA-was-still-on Unseen Mechs to play with yet.

I actually enjoy Hunchies, Jenners and Cents, the SRM Cat is used simply because I can load a years worth of SRM production in its magazines.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 13, 2012, 09:44:21 am
The Cat is loaded because of K2.

Also LRMs are currently brokenish.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on November 13, 2012, 10:38:17 am
Also LRMs are currently brokenish.

The only thing I heard to actively counter that so far would be the Raven, because I heard ECM packages are supposed to counter NARC beacons, Beagle Active Probe, and Artemis IV (supposedly by widening the spread of LRMs), but not indirect LOS by support or marking by spotters. Still, electronics has not been fully implemented yet (so far, your best bet of countering MSL boats are AMS, which has at least one dedicated hardpoint on almost every mech).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on November 13, 2012, 02:44:02 pm
My preferred mech is a Dragon DRG-1N loaded with either a gauss rifle and 4 tons of ammo or an AC/2, LL, AMS, SSRM2 and 4 SHS.  Fire support all the way.  Also quick enough to high-tail it back to base and block disengaged scout forces from capping when there's 1 second left on the cap timer.  Ooh fun times.

And what program is used to coordinate lances?  I've seen mumble, teamspeak and this random C3 voip thing...

Also if Ohmwrecker's modules sheet is to be believed, the modules they have planned are going to make these battles VERY interesting.

One bit of meta-gaming that annoys the **** out of me is when a clan drops lances on both sides of a battle, one declares and the other stays silent, you fight them well, oblivious to the premade lance on your side, and the OpFor is obviously losing, and then their leader says 'good game, lemming lance, go' and immediately 2/3rds your remaining forces DELIBERATELY OUT-OF-BOUNDS SUICIDE AND HAND THE ENEMY VICTORY   :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:.

THIS FORUM DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH SMILIES TO ADEQUATELY EXPRESS MY RAGE.  There are very few things I will hold a grudge for, but **** like this is enough for me to want to shank these rats even if they're on my team.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on November 13, 2012, 05:38:34 pm

And what program is used to coordinate lances?  I've seen mumble, teamspeak and this random C3 voip thing...

One bit of meta-gaming that annoys the **** out of me is when a clan drops lances on both sides of a battle, one declares and the other stays silent, you fight them well, oblivious to the premade lance on your side, and the OpFor is obviously losing, and then their leader says 'good game, lemming lance, go' and immediately 2/3rds your remaining forces DELIBERATELY OUT-OF-BOUNDS SUICIDE AND HAND THE ENEMY VICTORY   :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:.

THIS FORUM DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH SMILIES TO ADEQUATELY EXPRESS MY RAGE.  There are very few things I will hold a grudge for, but **** like this is enough for me to want to shank these rats even if they're on my team.

Certain squadrons tend to use TeamSpeak 3 over audio. Otherwise, you talk to all your team over text with the Y key.

I have not seen that kind of team incompetence so far. Every fight I see, everyone fights and dies to the bloody death. Worst case scenario, everyone on my side dies like sheep because Admiral Ackbar's on our side and we don't know it until half the team drops like flies against a fire pocket filled with K2s and ASDs.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 13, 2012, 05:41:56 pm
Trying to make the game work with my steam overlay, but like every other thing that's running via a launcher it doesn't want to do the handoff.

Disregard this, UAC is dumb and so am I.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on November 13, 2012, 10:56:39 pm

*snipped*

Certain squadrons tend to use TeamSpeak 3 over audio. Otherwise, you talk to all your team over text with the Y key.

I have not seen that kind of team incompetence so far. Every fight I see, everyone fights and dies to the bloody death. Worst case scenario, everyone on my side dies like sheep because Admiral Ackbar's on our side and we don't know it until half the team drops like flies against a fire pocket filled with K2s and ASDs.

Ouch that's a dick maneuver right there.  In most games both sides fight honorably... it's just when the shady crap breaks out.  But when there isn't shady crap, god there can be some entertaining engagements, like getting snuck up on by a Jenner, wading 200 m out in front of your line so that all your team can nail the Jenny to the wall, and then ducking back to cover while the enemy takes potshots at you and misses horribly.

What's you guys' favorite map so far?  Personally I like Caustic, just because it isn't covered in buildings that turn it into a twitch-shooting contest (or a clusterf**k urban brawl).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 13, 2012, 11:36:50 pm
Heat management on Caustic drives me to distraction, particularly fighting on the hill or in the caldera.

Probably Forest Colony. I've just seen the snowy version a couple times but I haven't been around it much.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on November 14, 2012, 01:07:23 am
But when there isn't shady crap, god there can be some entertaining engagements, like getting snuck up on by a Jenner, wading 200 m out in front of your line so that all your team can nail the Jenny to the wall, and then ducking back to cover while the enemy takes potshots at you and misses horribly.

What's you guys' favorite map so far?  Personally I like Caustic, just because it isn't covered in buildings that turn it into a twitch-shooting contest (or a clusterf**k urban brawl).

You should have been where I was earlier today, one set of opponents in River City was pretty much chock full of runners with two stock Catas. (I was playing ring around the rosy until a team mate threw a Gauss at the SRM-loaded Jenner's face point blank.)

I'm a wide, open field nut, so I'd have to say wherever the frozen plains are. I don't have the chops to do urban combat. (That is where ballistic weapons truly shine.)

And now, a word from Admiral Ackbar on urban combat. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on November 15, 2012, 08:13:48 am
I don't like any of the maps, I don't think any of them are really designed well or look good.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BloodEagle on November 15, 2012, 01:18:04 pm
I like River City when I spawn down-river.  And I like the new snow-version of the forest.

Other than that, they can all pretty much die in a fire.

I'd love to see a basic map made out of cell-shaded cubes (call it a training simulation if you want) and other simple geometric shapes.  And I'd REALLY like a map where the mechs are tiny and the world is huge: say, a bedroom / kitchen / living room.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on November 15, 2012, 04:47:56 pm
Convert maps from Mech2 and Mech3, there, I said it.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on November 15, 2012, 04:56:42 pm
Convert maps from Mech2 and Mech3, there, I said it.

Said what? All I see here is some goofy technical impracticality, I'm confused
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on November 15, 2012, 05:19:31 pm
Thanks for leaving out Mech4, those maps were epic turdburgers.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 15, 2012, 05:35:49 pm
Convert maps from Mech2 and Mech3, there, I said it.

If you said you were a complete derp, I heard you.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on November 15, 2012, 07:37:23 pm
With the Cataphract arriving on Tuesday, I'm definitely going to see if I can make a quad AC2 build.  Rumour has it the 4X will have the hardpoints necessary, and all in the arms.

In other news, my CPLT-C1 is still tearing **** up.

Thanks for leaving out Mech4, those maps were epic turdburgers.
Most were still better than what we have now.  At least the better mech4 maps didn't have everyone start within a stone's throw of each other.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on November 15, 2012, 07:47:06 pm
Convert maps from Mech2 and Mech3, there, I said it.

Said what? All I see here is some goofy technical impracticality, I'm confused

OK, fine, I'll explain. In Mech2, we had a LOT of maps for instant action and multiplayer. We had the canyons in Twycross and Alshain (affectionately called DFA Alley), the high-rise towers of Setubal, the high ground of Avon the night urban city in Devin, the frozen cliffs near Morges, the Lost Woods, the open team-on-team maps. And Outer Volta... minefield. Minefield. MINEFIELD!

Mech3 is pretty much open valley and underground caves. Good for traps, and direct "face me!" combat.

th-th-the-the point is, we need more pylons maps from the games of old for sheer nostalgic factor. I-if the maps from old can be adapted for use of MWO (whether they are "direct" ports or graphically updated), th-then... dammit, I can't finish.

EDIT: There was another field I wanted to nominate for adaptation into MWO:

A freaking moon map (example for those of you who have played Mech2, Satellite MacDuff in the Devin System, Falcons had "Bouk Obelisk", Wolves had "Sable Flame"). Virtually cold, hostile atmosphere (if your life support system gets shot up, you're dead). Open field, only craters can remotely cover you, oh, and starfield sky.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on November 15, 2012, 09:14:32 pm
Well with the time gap between 2 & 3 and Online, those maps would require some serious upgrading.  And as the timeline hasn't hit the Clans yet, no Twycross and Alshain, but that ****'s gonna be epic when it does arrive.

In general, yeah, they need more maps.  I think the maps are a decent size for 8v8 battles--you aren't within immediate weapons range (exception being Forest Colony--usually see gauss and AC2 fire in the first 20 seconds of the game... mostly because I'm the one shooting  ;)), there's enough room and variation that strategy is different every time and you don't have to worry about things getting too clustered or spending ages hunting the other team down.  I do think the maps could stand to be expanded if they ever decide to have larger battles.  A 12v12 or (god help us) a 16v16 would be a nightmare in the current battlespaces.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on November 15, 2012, 09:33:32 pm
Convert maps from Mech2 and Mech3, there, I said it.

Said what? All I see here is some goofy technical impracticality, I'm confused

OK, fine, I'll explain. In Mech2, we had a LOT of maps for instant action and multiplayer. We had the canyons in Twycross and Alshain (affectionately called DFA Alley), the high-rise towers of Setubal, the high ground of Avon the night urban city in Devin, the frozen cliffs near Morges, the Lost Woods, the open team-on-team maps. And Outer Volta... minefield. Minefield. MINEFIELD!

Mech3 is pretty much open valley and underground caves. Good for traps, and direct "face me!" combat.

th-th-the-the point is, we need more pylons maps from the games of old for sheer nostalgic factor. I-if the maps from old can be adapted for use of MWO (whether they are "direct" ports or graphically updated), th-then... dammit, I can't finish.

Oh, yeah, totally, both games had some great maps. I just thought you meant literally convert the meshes.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on November 15, 2012, 10:16:54 pm
Indeed.  "We should take <asset x> and just add it to <game y>" has a couple different ways of being interpreted, and the majority of them are really bad ideas.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on November 16, 2012, 09:41:41 pm
In general, yeah, they need more maps.  I think the maps are a decent size for 8v8 battles--you aren't within immediate weapons range (exception being Forest Colony--usually see gauss and AC2 fire in the first 20 seconds of the game... mostly because I'm the one shooting  ;)), there's enough room and variation that strategy is different every time and you don't have to worry about things getting too clustered or spending ages hunting the other team down.  I do think the maps could stand to be expanded if they ever decide to have larger battles.  A 12v12 or (god help us) a 16v16 would be a nightmare in the current battlespaces.

Don't forget River City (which is my favorite map ATM), where you start within ER Large Laser range.  Frozen City is of a similar size, but there's a glacier in the way.

PGI have said they're going bigger, at least.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on November 17, 2012, 02:13:06 am
Even though I signed up a while ago, I just barely started actually playing. This is a lot of fun!
I like that the battles are a lot faster than MWLL, and the persistence is nice.

I'm Scourge of Ages in game if anybody wants to add me. I'm the guy in the Commando.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 17, 2012, 09:41:14 am
I want my Commando back but getting through it my CPLT is killing me.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on November 17, 2012, 03:34:45 pm
Guys I have a dilemma.  I have a considerable sum of cbills... and I don't know if I should invest in a Commando with Artemis and a f**kton of SRMs, buy the CPLT-C4, or hold onto it for when they release the Cataphract and/or Highlander.  What do?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on November 17, 2012, 07:55:54 pm
The problem with the Commando, is none of the chassis have enough hardpoints for a truly crushing salvo of SRMs. There's one with 3 missile hardpoints, but I doubt that'll be enough for anything too amazing.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on November 17, 2012, 08:38:24 pm
Lol it's the commando, it's not supposed to be crushing anyone.  Really, I see that one as a cost-effective method to score spotter assists and annoy the f**k out of assault pilots.  But commandos don't have jump jets :(
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on November 17, 2012, 08:51:45 pm
Indeed.  I'm pretty sure that putting a trio of SRM-6s on the thing is already more than it can handle without seriously compromising things like durability or speed.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on November 17, 2012, 11:01:33 pm
Lol it's the commando, it's not supposed to be crushing anyone.  Really, I see that one as a cost-effective method to score spotter assists and annoy the f**k out of assault pilots.  But commandos don't have jump jets :(

Um... I know someone in my unit that actually backstabs and holds his own in a Commando against Hunchback and Dragon pilots. (Yeah shame, but I'm not going to bring up those critical slots/hardpoint debates again.)

Indeed.  I'm pretty sure that putting a trio of SRM-6s on the thing is already more than it can handle without seriously compromising things like durability or speed.

Raven with a PPC/AC-20 would like to have a word on that, being slow-ish (86 kph out of the box for some variants) and all. (Unless you manage to bring something lighter and can fit an XL engine with CASE...)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on November 19, 2012, 11:47:44 am
Raven with a PPC/AC-20 would like to have a word on that, being slow-ish (86 kph out of the box for some variants) and all. (Unless you manage to bring something lighter and can fit an XL engine with CASE...)

I was talking specifically about the Commando, not a 'Mech that's 40% larger than the Commando.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on November 19, 2012, 12:48:05 pm
What I'm running now: Cicada with a AC-5 (60 rounds) and trio of machine guns. Good for sniping and backstabbing heavies, not good against light and quick mechs.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on November 20, 2012, 01:14:26 pm
I retooled my Dragon from a Gaussdragon into a dual AC2 Dragon w/ML.  It's so satisfying to encounter someone piloting the same mech, only tricked out with XL engines and 2x the firepower (Gauss, SSRM2, 3xMPL), enter into a strafing duel with them, fight until they attempt to disengage, and just as they're about to duck behind the prow of the wrecked tanker on Forest Colony, shoot 'em in the back for a killing blow.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on November 20, 2012, 01:50:46 pm
Quick, everyone post your favored mech build!

Catapult-C1
Engine: XL300
Structure: Endo-Steel
Armor: Completely maxed out Standard

Weapons:
2x Large Laser (LT, RT)
2x Medium Laser (CT)
2x SSRM-2 (LA, RA), 1 ton ammo (RL)
AMS, 2 tons ammo (LL, RL)

18 Double Heat Sinks, 2 in each side torso, 1 in each arm, rest in engine
1 Jump Jet (LT)

Tonnage: 59.5 tons, no criticals remaining

I could fit in 2 more heat sinks if I dropped Endo-Steel, but I'm still considering heavier missile possibilities.

Runs very cool.  My Large Lasers, used alone, are almost completely heat neutral, even on Caustic. Moves at a decent speed (74.something) and is very, very tough.  Tears Heavies and Mediums to pieces trivially easily, and can handle Jenners and Awesomes with effort, and the latter usually results in heavy damage. Struggles against Atlases in 1v1.  Gausspults always need to be dealt with carefully.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on November 20, 2012, 08:04:39 pm
Preferred build of the moment:

Dragon-1N
Engine: Standard 300
Structure: Endo Steel
Armor: 352 points, thin in LT (no weapons installed there)

Weapons:

2x AC/2 (RA) + 4 tons ammo (2 RT, 2 in each leg)
1x Medium Laser (LA)
1x AMS (RT) + 1 ton ammo (RT)

CASE (RT)
3 SHS, 2 in engine and one in CT

Operational Notes:  Does not hit hard, but excels at fire support/distraction.  Good for suppressing sniper 'mechs and making return fire difficult for targets that your team is massing fire upon.  If you can avoid drawing too much attention to yourself, you can wear enemies down while they're too busy chasing the rest of your teammates.  If necessary, can be used to draw attention of heavier mechs away from injured teammates, buying them time to deliver killing blows or to retreat.  Can overheat with extended bombardment, but for the most part heat is not a major factor, and if it does shut down it comes back quickly, usually about 3 seconds.

Tell me, are DHS and/or XL Engines worth it?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on November 20, 2012, 09:56:07 pm
Depends.  XL is pretty expensive to repair, but the weight gains are really, really nice.  On a mech with small or difficult to hit side torsos (like the Dragon and Catapult), an XL is perfect.  But, like I said, expensive to buy and expensive to repair. If I get cored, repairing usually costs me between 60,000 and 80,000.

DHS is decent, but only the 10 that are included in the engine are actually proper double heat sinks (dissipating .2 heat per second).  The others only dissipate .14 HPS.  It really comes down to how much crit space you have available.

Also, thoughts on the Cataphract: CT is a goddamn barn.  Head too.  CTF-4X has an absolute top speed of 59km/h (with the best possible engine, which is a 255).  Other variants can go faster.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on November 24, 2012, 01:32:58 am
Centurion CN9-A: Standard 200 engine, Endo-Steel internals, just the ten engine-integrated heat sinks (doubled), 100 rounds of Ultra AC/5 ammo (with CASE in my LT), two M-Lasers in my CT, 1 LRM-5 with 360 rounds (for those times I just want to piss people off or give an illusion there's a pathetic missile pest), and an SRM-6 with 200 rounds (my oddball "if crap goes horribly wrong" weapon).

Right now, the thing that's frequently pissing me off is that even though the Ultra/5 has a 25% chance of jamming... it jams frequently for me after plugging one round. If my luck holds, I tend to soften an Atlas or a Cat with a lot of rounds before I die. (Makes me wish I rolled a 12. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pyCsu0QRO0))

I just had one of those sad days when three people from my side disconnected (one I knew was a crash being one of my squadron leaders on a TS channel) in Snow Colony, four of us tried to sneak through the lake to their base, then we got cornered and slaughtered.

EDIT: I swapped the Ultra AC/5 with an LB-10X AC. I can at the least soften enemies very efficiently before dying.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 30, 2012, 09:09:13 am
The new map is stunningly beautiful and makes for an actually-different experience from the regular version, and hey, it's the MW2 Betty again.

Also LRM buff is good for Catapult drivers. I'm useful again.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on November 30, 2012, 06:36:32 pm
Yeah I think the new stuff is pretty cool.  Also started running a Commando with 3 SSRM2s and 1 Medium Laser.  It's fun to sneak up on heavies and assaults and unload into their rear armor... hehe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvKi7lc6W0).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: FireSpawn on November 30, 2012, 09:46:23 pm
I giggled when I read "unload into their rear-".  :lol:

I am feeling equal parts shame, disappointment in myself and adolescent humour.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on December 01, 2012, 03:26:15 am
I've been getting very good results with a 2xAC/5 2xUAC/5 Cataphract-4X build.  The UAC/5s jam all the time, but the standard ones pick up the slack well enough.  And since the whole community is whining about useless UAC/5s, I don't foresee this build getting weaker in the future.

4xAC/2 isn't bad either, but runs quite hot.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 01, 2012, 10:20:00 am
Yeah I figured that would be a dangerous thing to post but unavoidable.  I guess I could've said 'shoot them in the back' but how bland is that?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on December 02, 2012, 07:21:50 pm
Quick, everyone post your favored mech build!

I've been running around in the Hunchback 4SP, fitted out with a pair of ssrms, two MLS on each hand, and a really honkin' big engine that gets my top speed up to about 88kph. I've finally almost got my controls worked out just how I want 'em.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 02, 2012, 07:38:40 pm
Stock COM-2D, or was. Might have to change it up now that there's a lot more autocannon in play for knock.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on December 02, 2012, 09:34:05 pm
Stock COM-2D, or was. Might have to change it up now that there's a lot more autocannon in play for knock.

Don't jump too fast, the next patch is supposed to nerf autocannon impact effects.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on December 02, 2012, 11:34:58 pm
. . . and hey, it's the MW2 Betty again.

I don't think that's Carol Ruggier's voice you're hearing (or Allison I forgot-her-last-name from MW2 Mercs, otherwise, prove me wrong).

I sold my CN9-A for a CN9-AL, does more bread and butter work for me than I ever hoped (4x M-Pulse, LRM-10 and SRM-4, with really good coolant).

The thing's that's pissing me off is the memleaks (yellow screen, blocky text, 4 FPS being the most prominent issues). I may have a crap laptop (at least I can fight at 15 FPS), but even this plagues some of the people who have high-end towers.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 02, 2012, 11:50:41 pm
Lol yeah I have a crap laptop, too. The moment I shared it on the forums there was an instant hate surge from all the hardcore gamers.  I get by at 12 fps, but it makes locking on to Jenners with my SSRMs a pain in the arse.  I have to restart the client every 2 games to avoid memleaks, 4 fps or god forbid a BSoD.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 03, 2012, 08:25:12 am
prove me wrong).

And lo, Viterbi said "Done." (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/75241-btchin-betty/page__p__1459724#entry1459724)

Note that post is from a pre-current-patch time.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: bigchunk1 on December 03, 2012, 06:50:19 pm
The new map is stunningly beautiful and makes for an actually-different experience from the regular version, and hey, it's the MW2 Betty again.

Also LRM buff is good for Catapult drivers. I'm useful again.

Totally agree with you. The new sky reminded me of a freespace skybox. I really like how the map looks "upside down" in that the snow on the ground glows bright while the night sky is dark with that beautiful aurora scraping across it. Really surreal and cool look.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 03, 2012, 06:53:39 pm
Normally I get pissed off when I have to play the same map 3 times in a row, but Frozen City Night is just too damn cool.

Also, I have to say that while I originally disdained light mechs because of how difficult they are to pilot/stay alive in, I think I'm starting to get the hang of them.  I know that as a light I'm supposed to scout, but I'm kinda crap at it, and the Commando doesn't forgive mistakes easily; one step too far into your enemies' sight and you're eating lasers, shells and missiles for your last meal, and if you run afoul of enemy scouts, you can't really hold your own against anything heavier.  So I mostly just hang around the big boys, stay out of sight, and screen them from other lights, or if the environment is permitting I zig-zag throughout the fray and unleash 2-3 flights of SSRMs (9 if we multiply by the three launchers installed) at anything I can target.  No one wants to hit a puny Commando, and that's it's greatest advantage.  They ignore me long enough that I can drop their armor to orange if they're facing me, or open their structure to the rounds of my team's AC/20s if they show me their back.  And on good days I land finishing hits before any of the heavier guns have cycled.

Just had a game where a Jenner broke past our lines and made it to the base.  Earlier in the battle I ate two flights of LRM-20s in support of the main unit.  That bared the structure on both LT and RT, dropped CT to 50% armor and my RCT to 25%. Our foe wailed on the only other light mech even more.  I disengaged and arrived at base first. Immediately started harassing the Jenner, but with his speed he could out-turn me, so I wasn't able to do much to him.  When the other Commando arrived the Jenner split off to circle around and gain a better attack vector.  It worked, and he dropped my comrade as they closed on each other a second time.  Unfortunately for him, I followed him around and landed a few more missiles before he could face me.  He turned and lased out my LT, destroying my ML and a ton of SSRM ammo in the process.  To make matters worse, that shot put me down 2 heatsinks, and my mech already sweltered at 75% heat.  Fighting became a breakneck tango about the mining rig, and my ammo quickly depleted.  In desperation, I fired a flight before my heat had safely dissipated, and everything turned off.  The target lock I had so carefully maintained disappeared.  Unbeknownst to me, seconds before, he also overheated and couldn't evade the missiles.  In a satisfying burst of smoke they tore off his right leg.  After reacquiring target, I fired again, only to see two missiles launch instead of the usual six.  My heart sank with the 'Ammunition Depleted' message--no laser, no ammo, and a blood-red CT against a Jenner with 4 MPLs left. 

But then he exploded.

And we won.

First time I've ever successfully defended a base with next to no assistance.  Repair/Rearm was still 40k, but hey, it was a well fought match.  I'm just sad I didn't have time to praise the other team--they stayed toe-to-toe with us the whole way.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on December 04, 2012, 11:47:52 pm
Now with eight man teams and ECM cloud coverage, I'm afraid to say pure LRM boats aren't used as far as I saw all day today. I'm starting to frequently see six by six or K2 Laser-oriented Cats now.

With ECM coverage, it's starting to be the core of the fight (always take out their ECM-rigged and defend yours), and more or less, now you have to get clear visuals now to get a decent target lock. (I'm guessing information warfare is starting to be vital again.)

F___ing Atlases. Tricksey atlases! (you can bet if you see more than one Atlas, one of them is their ECM heart.) (Now they need to set a tonnage cap.)

Earlier tonight, there was an op in Frozen City Night, we were basically on 0-1, and when one of the guys on my side lucky-shotted a Commando to death (for 1-1), they basically rushed to our base, and we got to theirs, and we barely won on a capture by a second.

EDIT: Bought a Catapult K2 unit, 1 M-Pulse, 1 L-Pulse, 1 L-Laser, 1 ER L-Laser with 20 dual heat sinks. Frack. I need the dough so I can grind the Catapult and Centurion trees (epic time waster).

EVEN More Editz: Expect 12-man groups next January of February. Right now for teams, it's either up to 4 or exactly 8.

Oh, and...

I have to restart the client every 2 games to avoid memleaks, 4 fps or god forbid a BSoD.

Try deleting your Shaders folder every once in a while, that helps mitigate the issue a bit (it's at your MWO root directory/USER/Shaders). It will automatically be remade to give you the necessary files. Frankly, at least you're not one of the people who get so many CTD's upon loading...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Hades on December 13, 2012, 12:44:54 am
jenners are op, nerf
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on December 13, 2012, 12:07:59 pm
Jenners can't use ECM, so they pay a lot to be OP. :P
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 13, 2012, 07:53:31 pm
jenners are op, nerf

Jenners aren't OP, AS7-D-DC are OP.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 15, 2012, 02:11:50 pm
Did everyone grab their Free day of premium time (http://mwomercs.com/pennyarcade) yet? Supposedly adds on top of founders time.

Normally I get pissed off when I have to play the same map 3 times in a row, but Frozen City Night is just too damn cool.

I only got that map three times in ~4 hrs yesterday.  :nono: Forest Colony and River City left and right for me. Not that my AC/20 Hunch has a problem with RC :D
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 15, 2012, 03:45:30 pm
lol my gaussdragon had issues with RC, so I made it a dakkadragon.

And singling a YLW and a hunchie in a commando is satisfying as hell.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 15, 2012, 03:57:24 pm
Satisfying is going toe-to-toe with a pair of Atlases in a COM-2D, killing one, and almosting the other down to a single-medium-lasers-at-dawn.

And then I blew up, but it was worth it.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 15, 2012, 05:38:43 pm
pshaw. Satisfying is acing a commando who thinks he's all bad with his lag shields and streak spam and ecm :p

Or a 3L. Usually a 3L. ****ers are everywhere it seems. The other side had 3 of them in my last match plus an ecm'd atlas (D-DC?) Very very depressing like.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 15, 2012, 05:42:04 pm
Hey, I legit did this stock. No streaks, no ECM.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 15, 2012, 05:49:22 pm
We got caught by an uppity commando on RC, an advance scout started dancing around all 'can't catch me can't--'BOOOM.  Shot him in his face with a gauss round.  'Dude wtf just happened?' was all he said.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on December 15, 2012, 07:17:52 pm
We got caught by an uppity commando on RC, an advance scout started dancing around all 'can't catch me can't--'BOOOM.  Shot him in his face with a gauss round.  'Dude wtf just happened?' was all he said.
sweet
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 15, 2012, 08:12:13 pm
Hey, I legit did this stock. No streaks, no ECM.

Well ****. Going to have to dip into my Highlander fund to give it a spin.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on December 16, 2012, 01:51:36 am
Hey, um, last I heard, the MWO site was infected with a deadly virus, has the all-clear been called?

Coming up on the next update: The Stalker and Conquest Mode (it's like take the five points and make sure they're yours long as you can, hopefully it can make Medium mechs more practical on the field again). Soon: TAG range upped to 750 meters to counteract ECM to make LRMs useful again... that's all I heard. Don't take it for fact.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 16, 2012, 01:03:47 pm
I have a Highlander fund too... but I'm getting bored playing just Commando and Dragon all the time. 

EDIT: I just checked and if they stay true to TT prices, I have enough for a Highlander already.  Guess it's time to start a Catapult/Cataphract fund.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 16, 2012, 05:22:53 pm
Hey, um, last I heard, the MWO site was infected with a deadly virus, has the all-clear been called?

Coming up on the next update: The Stalker and Conquest Mode (it's like take the five points and make sure they're yours long as you can, hopefully it can make Medium mechs more practical on the field again). Soon: TAG range upped to 750 meters to counteract ECM to make LRMs useful again... that's all I heard. Don't take it for fact.

The site is all better now.

Conquest mode sounds nice*. Wish they would fix the horrible netcode first, then start balancing gear. 

*for organized groups, I can't even slightly imagine it not being a cluster**** in Pubs.

I have a Highlander fund too... but I'm getting bored playing just Commando and Dragon all the time.

Yeah huh. Sadly, I just saw how much xp I had sitting on my 4G and 4SP (20k+ per) and cleared the fund buying/outfitting a laserback so I could dump some of the xp. My 4SP has become an adorable smash-fisting ninja god of the battlefield. Not even sure I want a Highlander after my last few matches with it.

Quote
EDIT: I just checked and if they stay true to TT prices, I have enough for a Highlander already.

How much would that be then?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 16, 2012, 05:32:21 pm
Yeah huh. Sadly, I just saw how much xp I had sitting on my 4G and 4SP (20k+ per) and cleared the fund buying/outfitting a laserback so I could dump some of the xp.

Hahahah I know the feeling.  I have +46k sitting on my Dragon 1N.

Quote
My 4SP has become an adorable smash-fisting ninja god of the battlefield. Not even sure I want a Highlander after my last few matches with it.

Lol what's the loadout?
Quote
Quote
EDIT: I just checked and if they stay true to TT prices, I have enough for a Highlander already.

How much would that be then?


8,936,080 C-bills.  The value might be different given that they price variants based on the cost of their equipment, so I'm using the TT value as a ballpark estimate.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 16, 2012, 05:51:30 pm
Lol what's the loadout?

Pretty much the standard I think: 250 standard engine for a struttin' 81kph base, endosteel, DHS (5 extra), 2x2 ML in the arms, ML in the head. 2 SRM 6, 3 tons ammo in the legs. Leg armor is at 39, but it might as well be in the teens. I can't remember a time I've been intentionally hit in the legs. 1.1 Heat efficiency, 55 firepower, 320 armor. A bit rough on the heat, but I'm a bit of a spaz in a circle-fight, so it could just be me.

Quote
8,936,080 C-bills.  The value might be different given that they price variants based on the cost of their equipment, so I'm using the TT value as a ballpark estimate.

Oooo. Thats not bad at all. I was kinda expecting it would be around a -K atlas.


*edit* tried finding it on the MWO forums but couldn't. Does anyone know what the laser dmg drop off out of range is off hand?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 16, 2012, 06:06:02 pm
Lulz I can never hit anything with unguided SRMs.

IIRC, the lasers do maximum damage out to their effective range (the number in your weapon group selector), and then the damage scales from full to no damage at twice the effective range.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 16, 2012, 07:30:52 pm
Lulz I can never hit anything with unguided SRMs.

IIRC, the lasers do maximum damage out to their effective range (the number in your weapon group selector), and then the damage scales from full to no damage at twice the effective range.

I use them like a nice shoulder mounted shotgun to squik boats and whatevers from under 50m. Maybe 100 for an atlas or a not-awesome if Ive got its widest target profile, anything smaller or further out and lasers are da bestest.

In other news: **** the repair bill for running into a 6x6SRM Catapult. 60odd k, where a usual got-deaded is around 35 for this build. Explains how they post stupid 1k+ dmg numbers though.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on December 17, 2012, 11:56:11 pm
Alright, those things about the patch I said... yeah, you can take them for fact now. Exact listing of the patch is here. (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/84367-what-to-expect-dec-18-patch/)

Yay, free eight mil. I'm going to buy a Catapult C4, grind that tree, then sell one of my Cats to finish Centurion (f___ing CN9-D costing eight mil).

Lulz I can never hit anything with unguided SRMs.

IIRC, the lasers do maximum damage out to their effective range (the number in your weapon group selector), and then the damage scales from full to no damage at twice the effective range.
.

In other news: **** the repair bill for running into a 6x6SRM Catapult. 60odd k, where a usual got-deaded is around 35 for this build. Explains how they post stupid 1k+ dmg numbers though.

"Six by six Cats" are *****es, worse than the Streak Cats and the AC-20 K2 units. (I use a 2xLB-10X K2, and I can only just peel those ****ers' layers off. I always get second or third place EXP-wise.)


On another note... that archway in Snow Forest that overlooks the tunnel entrance for the southeast base guys? I jumpjetted onto that (was a 2xSRM-6 C1 with a couple lasers), and while my buddies in the tunnel were taking beatings, I laid down SRM fire onto those guys choking the exit... and it took them two minutes to realize I was raining "death from above."

Ahhhh..... another case proving Valve's truthful statement "gamers don't look up."  :lol:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on December 18, 2012, 02:46:23 am
That's a very interesting update.

Quote
Capture Win and Assist have been removed.

So without rewards for capping, and identical rewards for win or lose, it seems like Assault is going to be a straight up deathmatch. I can work with that.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 18, 2012, 02:57:34 am
Ahhhh..... another case proving Valve's truthful statement "gamers don't look up."  :lol:

Humans don't look up.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: redsniper on December 18, 2012, 08:41:52 am
I daresay most gamers are humans...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 18, 2012, 08:55:55 am
I daresay most gamers are humans...

Exactly.

Looking forward to my Stalker.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 18, 2012, 09:11:42 am
I daresay most gamers are humans...
Allow me to doubt that :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 18, 2012, 11:45:18 am
On another note... that archway in Snow Forest that overlooks the tunnel entrance for the southeast base guys? I jumpjetted onto that (was a 2xSRM-6 C1 with a couple lasers), and while my buddies in the tunnel were taking beatings, I laid down SRM fire onto those guys choking the exit... and it took them two minutes to realize I was raining "death from above."

I erhm... may have been one of those people not looking up.  :nono: Not my finest match.

This patch is just bad news for momma's lil' hunchie. Karrin doesn't want to get all sweaty, so she can't pack Artemis with her swankin' six packs, and now there's going to be a big, creepy Stalker roaming around with missiles and lasers everywhere.  :(

But, on the bright side, every idiot and all of their idiot friends seem to be thinking XL engines are great for assaults again. Tasty Tasty XL engines. :D

But: NIGHT VISION MAP! woohoo. Wait. No woohooo. Time to be blinded whenever someone hits me CT. Yay blindness!
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 18, 2012, 03:50:41 pm
Holy crap this patch... sounds both awesome and terrifying.

No more Repair/Rearm costs, trial mechs get xp now, new players have a massive bonus so by the end of their first 25 games they get 7.9 million c-bills, and if you've already played more than 25 games, you get 7.9 MC-Bills free. 

Added Stalker with 5 variants and 2 Hero Dragons, a myriad of weapons adjustments, and of course a new game mode and a new map.

Not sure about you but the current setup of the conquest mode sounds like a massive cluster**** waiting to happen--limited lives and 5 resource collectors to capture.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 18, 2012, 05:39:04 pm
5 variants sounds good, but 3 of them are very much inferior to the 5S and 5M since they have fewer hardpoints. And the trial Stalker is more of a danger to itself than to anyone it is trying to shoot at. Saw two self-destruct so far in 3 matches.  :lol: And the nose! Its so big and srm'able. Can't turn for **** and the sides are way too vulnerable for an XL engine.

Going to be enjoying the next few days (supposing I get time to play) smashing all of these that people rushed to buy :D
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 18, 2012, 05:55:54 pm
Just played a round in it, yeah, the heat can be an issue if you fire everything. I'd imagine the explody-stalkers are newbies not too familiar with what heat will do to them.  I've stuck with long-range LL bombardment and I must say, the effect sustained linked LL fire has is pretty impressive.  And being able to back it up with missiles is pretty fun, too.

The Conquest game mode is, as I expected, a cluster****.  Lights rule the day, and Assaults are liabilities, not assets.

And now I have a f**kton of money and I don't know what I should do with it.  I could buy basically any mech without cutting into my Highlander fund, so what should I roll?  I'm trying to decide between Cataphract 4X, Catapult C4, or just splurging and om nomming a Stalker 3F/5M.  Advice?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 19, 2012, 10:44:07 am
I guess they could have been, or I just don't think noobs know how to override shutdown :p
 
Conquest is super depressing I agree. Being the heaviest mech doing anything useful shouldn't be something said of an H-Muffin. And at the same time, ****ty netcode means TAG is ****ing useless against lights, since missiles lose lock if they rubber band.  If.  :lol:

5M has DHS, so its slightly less bad really ****ing cheap out of the box. And if you buy it now, it comes with a complimentary NARC beacon, free! Don't equip it and throw it in your garage, hang it on your wall, leave it outside to rust, no problem. It'll still work just like new.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 19, 2012, 10:59:31 am
My god. I ran into a full lance of Stalkers while driving my Commando.

It's like hitting a solid wall made of LRMs and Large Lasers if they catch you out into the open. My arms both came off and I had center torso damage on the first salvo.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 19, 2012, 06:56:16 pm
So I decided to Stalker it up, rolled with the 5M, stripped it and then gave it 2xSRM4, 2xSRM6, 4xLL and left the DHS alone. It's the bastard lovechild of an SRM and a LL boat.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on December 19, 2012, 07:16:52 pm
I have in my garage a Commando and a Centurion, both kitted out how I like with the extra C-bills we just got. What mech should I go for next? I'd like a heavy or assault, maybe with energy weapons and/or LRMs to be a change of pace from my UAC/5 and SRM-build mediums. No Catapult unless it's really worth it; too easy of a target.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on December 19, 2012, 07:24:08 pm
COM-2D why did not I buy you sooner?  Just had a conquest map game, a Raven jockey and I played merry hell with the our opponents.  We eventually lost but we killed a Stalker, Cat, Atlas and a Raven, not to mention having capped most of the points at one point or another.  If I hadn't exhausted all my SRMs and the Raven hadn't been legged we probably could have ate the remaining Stalker and Raven that was left on the other team.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 20, 2012, 12:04:00 pm
I have in my garage a Commando and a Centurion, both kitted out how I like with the extra C-bills we just got. What mech should I go for next? I'd like a heavy or assault, maybe with energy weapons and/or LRMs to be a change of pace from my UAC/5 and SRM-build mediums. No Catapult unless it's really worth it; too easy of a target.

With the PPC fix an AWS-8Q PPC'er seem to be workable again, or just quad LL + some ml/mpl depending on what fits/heat to play tag with lights. A hybrid on an 8T/8V chassis also works, but if you go with LRMs there rather than streaks, lights and hunchies will come to say hello. Cats definitely make the best LRM boats though, the jump jets are invaluable at putting themselves out of reach of brawlers and the like. Just don't make a D-DC LRM boat build. I can't think of anything more depressing to find on either team.  :nono:

So I decided to Stalker it up, rolled with the 5M, stripped it and then gave it 2xSRM4, 2xSRM6, 4xLL and left the DHS alone. It's the bastard lovechild of an SRM and a LL boat.

Moooooooooooooooooooommy! Is a monster in my video game! :shaking:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on December 20, 2012, 11:08:56 pm

No more Repair/Rearm costs, trial mechs get xp now, new players have a massive bonus so by the end of their first 25 games they get 7.9 million c-bills, and if you've already played more than 25 games, you get 7.9 MC-Bills free. 

Not sure about you but the current setup of the conquest mode sounds like a massive cluster**** waiting to happen--limited lives and 5 resource collectors to capture.

1. The side effect is that you don't have the 75 or 100K base pay, it's a flat 25 (since R&R is gone for now, seems the median repair cost is 50K). They will bring back R&R some day after New Year's. Enjoy your no-repair bill XLs and Artemis.

2. Lights and XL Meds rule the day on that.

Oh, and on another note... the Orion has been announced.

On another note... that archway in Snow Forest that overlooks the tunnel entrance for the southeast base guys? I jumpjetted onto that (was a 2xSRM-6 C1 with a couple lasers), and while my buddies in the tunnel were taking beatings, I laid down SRM fire onto those guys choking the exit... and it took them two minutes to realize I was raining "death from above."

I erhm... may have been one of those people not looking up.  :nono: Not my finest match.

I got noticed by a Commando. Phracts and Hunchies were holding the chokepoint.

And by the way, has anyone noticed that there are a few players that seem to be rigged with aimbots? I'm kinda seeing occurrences of pilots getting headshot a bit too cleanly by Gauss Rifles. (Catapults are highly susceptible to this...)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 20, 2012, 11:40:40 pm
And by the way, has anyone noticed that there are a few players that seem to be rigged with aimbots? I'm kinda seeing occurrences of pilots getting headshot a bit too cleanly by Gauss Rifles. (Catapults are highly susceptible to this...)

Cats have a -huge- cockpit hitbox if you are firing down on them. I got a K2 that way today off of the hills in Forest Colony as it closed using a Gaussback. Could be aimbotters, but ballistics got a pretty sexy speed boost in the patch so you can actually trace with arm lasers and land a gauss based on that out to like 200ish meters.

Quote
Oh, and on another note... the Orion has been announced.

So, May/June of next year or so for release?

Quote
I got noticed by a Commando. Phracts and Hunchies were holding the chokepoint.

Sounds about right.  :nono:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 20, 2012, 11:53:32 pm
Yeah I've seen snipers dropping off rounds they should not be.  One match on FC I crested a hill for overwatch, was concealed behind trees, and instantly took a gauss round to the cockpit.  I retreated, and for the next minute saw autocannon impacts in front of my cockpit, even though there was a hill in the way.  No damage was registered, but I'm damn certain someone landing a headshot at that range through dense foliage and then being able to pinpoint target through a hill is guilty of hax.

My only regret is that I didn't have the foresight to let him kill me so I could report his ass.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on December 24, 2012, 03:26:36 pm
Booo! forum nommed my serenade to the lady in black. Probably for the best though. Suffice to say I bought a 3L and it really is as easy-mode lulzful as it seems. Its got shields, its got speed. The only things that it lacks is a pair of heavy autocannons and a Cuttle and I could pretend I'ma huntin' glitches in ma' Talon. :D
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 06, 2013, 12:31:40 am
So. Stalker. Triple Large Laser. Five SRM-6. Holy ****. People charge at you with all these visions of "he's got LRMs he's a stalker he'll overheat if we fight him close" and then suddenly they get hit by thirty SRMs and you can see them flinch. Literally, I mean it. Most people will immediately jerk their torsos when the missile rain comes down, then immediately throttle down and swerve to try and get out your line of fire.

It's glorious.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on January 06, 2013, 03:16:22 am
So. Stalker. Triple Large Laser. Five SRM-6. Holy ****. People charge at you with all these visions of "he's got LRMs he's a stalker he'll overheat if we fight him close" and then suddenly they get hit by thirty SRMs and you can see them flinch. Literally, I mean it.

I've had my fair share of run-ins with deadly SRM-stuffed Stalkers or those who have LRM-20s. Most of the time, the Stalker pilots I cross by are halfwits who think it's a good idea to mass stuff PPCs into them or don't have the backing coolant to support whatever they stuffed into their system.

Right now, I'm trying to Elite my Catapults (done with the K2), just doing a C4 that's Artemis-enhanced (2x SRM-6s, 2x SRM-4s, 4 tons of SRM ammo, with an M-Pulse and TAG). Surprisingly, on a shortcat that doesn't hold candles against six-by-six Cats or Stalkers, I end up scoring the most points when I end up part of the losing brigade. But the thing I love about it is that it can beautifully expose the CT of an Atlas.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on January 06, 2013, 11:34:11 am
Right now, I'm trying to Elite my Catapults (done with the K2), just doing a C4 that's Artemis-enhanced (2x SRM-6s, 2x SRM-4s, 4 tons of SRM ammo, with an M-Pulse and TAG). Surprisingly, on a shortcat that doesn't hold candles against six-by-six Cats or Stalkers, I end up scoring the most points when I end up part of the losing brigade. But the thing I love about it is that it can beautifully expose the CT of an Atlas.

Heh. I've been running almost the same thing, 4xASRM4 and twin MPL. Busted up a fair few 6x6ers with it so far before they get close enough to be effective. 

Quote
Most of the time, the Stalker pilots I cross by are halfwits who think it's a good idea to mass stuff PPCs into them or don't have the backing coolant to support whatever they stuffed into their system.

So much this. Or boat-stalkers that load ammo in their arms without using case.  :lol:

I think a pure LL stalker is the most dangerous to face off against though.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on January 06, 2013, 10:16:04 pm
I think a pure LL stalker is the most dangerous to face off against though.
This... oh god this.

When you're rummaging around in a hunchie/centurion like i am and end up face smack dab in a LL boat, goddamn thats a pants ****ting moment of terror every time.

And running away never works :(


Stuffing them full of srm's and ac 20's / lbx's works sometimes a smidge.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on January 07, 2013, 09:16:30 am
So. Stalker. Triple Large Laser. Five SRM-6. Holy ****. People charge at you with all these visions of "he's got LRMs he's a stalker he'll overheat if we fight him close" and then suddenly they get hit by thirty SRMs and you can see them flinch. Literally, I mean it. Most people will immediately jerk their torsos when the missile rain comes down, then immediately throttle down and swerve to try and get out your line of fire.

It's glorious.

My experience is that quite a few Stalker jocks don't tend to lead their targets so as I run around their feet in a COM-2D they launch the giant SRM fusillade where I was.  Tends to get worse if I have another scout partner in crime.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 07, 2013, 12:26:16 pm
To be honest, I tried rolling all LL and discovered it's basically an excuse to blow yourself up.

I'm currently contemplating switching to medium pulse on the arm mounts, but the problem for a Stalker M is fighting your lack of slots after DHS so I'm not sure.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on January 07, 2013, 02:07:59 pm
To be honest, I tried rolling all LL and discovered it's basically an excuse to blow yourself up.

I'm currently contemplating switching to medium pulse on the arm mounts, but the problem for a Stalker M is fighting your lack of slots after DHS so I'm not sure.

I think an LL boat pretty much requires you to use SHS and maybe even leave off endosteel to have enough heat tolerance/dispersion to not be a two shot wonder.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: mobcdmoc3 on January 07, 2013, 03:00:41 pm
I feel like the Stalker is awfully squishy when caught alone. With barely over 400 armor points to work with, it's barely more durable than my catapults. That unfortunately makes them notoriously easy to neuter considering how big and slow they are.

On a different note, does anyone have a guess as to how much the Highlander is going to cost? I think it's about time I started my own Highlander fund :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on January 07, 2013, 08:53:38 pm
I feel like the Stalker is awfully squishy when caught alone. With barely over 400 armor points to work with, it's barely more durable than my catapults. That unfortunately makes them notoriously easy to neuter considering how big and slow they are.

On a different note, does anyone have a guess as to how much the Highlander is going to cost? I think it's about time I started my own Highlander fund :p

1. I crossed by an LRM-15 saturation Stalker (the rest it had were pitiful Small Lasers and a TAG) on its own. I ended up negating everything it fired on my buddies (I was the only ECM Raven on my side, unfortunately, yes, I sold my LB-10X Cat after unlocking the Master Tree for it).

2. Looking up on Sarna, you may want to keep a reserve of nine million C-Bills (8,936,080 for the HGN-732 to be exact).

I'm hoping to fly a Trebuchet soon. Or the Orion, whichever comes first (I really want a Marauder, but I don't want to get my hopes up on that). What I am concerned about is the epic cluster**** about balancing if the Clans come in (the in-game clock is 3050, which should be right up to the doors of the Clan Invasion)...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 07, 2013, 09:19:42 pm
Clan energy weapons put out a ton of heat, and chances are Clan DHS are only going to be 1.4 HS like IS ones.  Even with needing one fewer slot you're still going to need to mount a ton of them to get anywhere near heat neutral with a couple Clan ERLL.  Running an ERLL Timber Wolf will probably make you explode faster than a critted Gauss Rifle in lava, so chances are we'll mostly see ballistic and missile ClanTech since those have zero downsides and lots of upsides compared to IS versions.  I can already imagine the rage from Clan SSRM-6 spam and the inevitable Mad Gausscats.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 07, 2013, 09:24:53 pm
Clan DHS take up two slots, not three, which means they get more of them too.

Nova Prime is gonna melt faces, including its own.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 07, 2013, 09:52:01 pm
I did mention that actually, but Double Heat Sinks are only 1.4 heat sinks in MWO, so any Clan laserboat design is going to be simply unable to maintain any sort of sustained fire.  The stock Supernova Prime will probably only get a single volley off before going into automatic shut down, so all those lovely ER lasers and ER PPC's are going to get neglected in favor of Ultra Autocannons and Streak SRM spam.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 07, 2013, 10:39:11 pm
I did mention that actually, but Double Heat Sinks are only 1.4 heat sinks in MWO,

That's true for ours, but with Clans not having options but to go pulse or ER, I suspect they might have a heatsink buff to make their laseryguns competitive.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on January 07, 2013, 10:42:27 pm
That's true for ours, but with Clans not having options but to go pulse or ER, I suspect they might have a heatsink buff to make their laseryguns competitive.

Clans... might have a heatsink buff to make their laseryguns competitive.

Clans... buff... competetive

Excuse me while I laugh my ass off.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 07, 2013, 11:12:40 pm
Excuse me while I laugh my ass off.

Hey. You're working off tabletop. We ain't there no more.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on January 07, 2013, 11:44:30 pm
Excuse me while I laugh my ass off.

Hey. You're working off tabletop. We ain't there no more.

Meanwhile, you're working off IS.  Clans most certainly ain't there no more. :P
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 08, 2013, 12:19:00 am
Meanwhile, you're working off IS.  Clans most certainly ain't there no more. :P

The meta for MWO simply doesn't support a whole lineup based on missiles and projectiles. The most powerful build since pretty much the start of the game has been a laser Hunchback, and most of the builds not based around a Gauss pair are built around a solid core of basic medium or large lasers. The Clans don't have choices in that area which keep the heat down; they need the extra heat dissipation.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2013, 12:19:50 am
Meanwhile, you're working off IS.  Clans most certainly ain't there no more. :P

The meta for MWO simply doesn't support a whole lineup based on missiles and projectiles. The most powerful build since pretty much the start of the game has been a laser Hunchback, and most of the builds not based around a Gauss pair are built around a solid core of basic medium or large lasers.

This sounds a lot like tabletop :colbert:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 08, 2013, 12:22:10 am
This sounds a lot like tabletop :colbert:

Not particularly. A lot of tabletop is built around LRMs or ER weaponry for damage output, but neither of those is a very good choice in MWO.

Hell, the only remotely SRM-madness build to be found in tabletop is the Arctic Wolf, maybe the Mad Cat D if you squint and forget two of the launchers are facing the wrong way. Streak Madness/SRM Madness is a legit design goal in MWO.

EDIT: I mean, hell. PPCs. Tell me the last time you saw somebody running with PPCs in MWO. It just isn't done. That's such a reversal from the tabletop it's hard to believe.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2013, 12:30:12 am
This sounds a lot like tabletop :colbert:

Not particularly. A lot of tabletop is built around LRMs or ER weaponry for damage output, but neither of those is a very good choice in MWO.

No, the IS Level 1 metagame in tabletop is all about (standard, obv) medium lasers. And you can fix the Mad Cat D because I'm pretty those SSRMs are omni pods right? Just flip them around.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on January 08, 2013, 12:56:37 am
Halfway correct and correct, respectively.

Medium lasers are the most "efficient" weapons in the game on a heat:damage:ton:crit combination of ratios.  However, they lack severely in the range department (which only gets worse as the timeline progresses), and are terrible at grouping damage.  A fast medium laser boat with the sinks to fire them is absolutely going to beat the **** out of the same chassis mounting anything else, but anything faster can effectively outrange it, and anything slower can potentially outdamage it even without the standard medium lasers.  The Intro-tech meta is significantly more flexible than "Medium lasers win"

The Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) is indeed an omni.  It takes less than half a day of work to move the rear mounted launchers forward, though technically it's not a D config at that point.  I'd call it a D+, since it's better in every way.

And honestly speaking, the reason SRM boats don't fly in the tabletop game for the Clans is because of their comparatively terrible range.  They exist, though not in huge numbers, but they just can't compete with the longer range energy.  In MWO, this is obviously not the case, but I don't think that automatically means the Clans aren't going to be primarily ER and LRM.  If anything, the fact that the Clan equipment is so much better than equivalent IS gear means that it might make a comeback.  After all, the Clan ER Large reaches out to an excellent 25 hexes on the tabletop, and the IS ER Large doesn't even reach 80% of that.  I imagine that Clan LRMs would be significantly less affected by ECM, or something like that.

Now, granted, I don't have the full picture of MWO, since my computer can't handle it.  I could very easily be talking out my ass on this.  On the other hand, the entire idea of Clan gear is to be absolutely better in every way than IS gear, and I can see that kind of design goal leading to a viable ER/LRM option for Clan equipment.  When you can fit an entire Clan LRM-15 with Artemis in the same amount of tonnage as an IS SSRM-6, there's bound to be a little shakeup of the meta.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 08, 2013, 01:10:32 am
No, the IS Level 1 metagame in tabletop is all about (standard, obv) medium lasers. And you can fix the Mad Cat D because I'm pretty those SSRMs are omni pods right? Just flip them around.

We're at Level 2 in theory, at the very least Level 1.7 in practice. :colbert:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on January 08, 2013, 01:24:53 am
I'd say much closer to 1.5 than 1.7.  Not enough different kinds of PPCs.  Not enough plasma.  Never enough plasma.

I have the feeling that, if it's ever realized, plasma rifles are going to be the single most broken piece of equipment in the game.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on January 08, 2013, 01:26:00 am
I don't think plasma is level 2 tech until, like, Jihad era (also aren't plasma rifles pretty suboptimal)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 08, 2013, 01:51:31 am
I'd say much closer to 1.5 than 1.7.  Not enough different kinds of PPCs.  Not enough plasma.  Never enough plasma.

I have the feeling that, if it's ever realized, plasma rifles are going to be the single most broken piece of equipment in the game.

Streak SRMs beyond size 2, Ultra ACs that aren't 5s, and non-LB-10Xs  aren't Level 2 tech yet, it's 3050.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on January 08, 2013, 02:00:35 am
I don't mean to go through redundant madness, but...

Streak Madness/SRM Madness is a legit design goal in MWO.

EDIT: I mean, hell. PPCs. Tell me the last time you saw somebody running with PPCs in MWO. It just isn't done. That's such a reversal from the tabletop it's hard to believe.

A. I'm not going to go into the Shortcat debacle anymore. Still, I treat Six by Six Cats as the greatest danger (unless I have a pair of Large Lasers).

B. I used to have a Centurion-AL with an ER PPC in its right arm, and it pretty much worked as a backstab or "don't pop over my ridge, *****" weapon (until I got the dough for a heavier and faster engine). I can't imagine PPCs working in practice anymore because 1: Gauss Cats are used more now, 2: I see a bunch of pilots who remotely think it's a good idea to stuff their entire load with PPCs and be halfwits at heat management* (as in, think it's a good idea to fire four at once) and probably 3: it depends, but the nature of urban combat. I would be still wondering if they're going to do with what Mech3 did with the PPCs (if you get shot by it, all your HUD elements get afflicted with static).

* (The only exception I've probably seen for this in the past week was River City Night Conquest when two hostile Cat K2s had dual or tri-ER PPCs, stole the high ground on the high edges of the west side, and sniped everyone until two fast movers gave them some grief. My side won in the end on the basis of resource gathering.)

With Clan SRMs being able to punch through at a half-kilometer rather than a quarter-kilo, I'm going to have a bit of my work cut out for me.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on January 08, 2013, 02:35:33 am
My current favorite loadout features a PPC as its 2nd primary.  I gave my DRG-1N 2xAC2, 2xSSRM2 and a PPC, with remaining tonnage devoted to ammo and DHS.  It's surprisingly effective; the PPC makes for a nice punch-in-the-face weapon, the AC2s chase uppity heavies back behind cover, and SSRM2s tell the lights to sod off.  What's even better, the heat doesn't build up too quickly, making management pretty easy.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on January 08, 2013, 08:27:46 am
I don't think plasma is level 2 tech until, like, Jihad era (also aren't plasma rifles pretty suboptimal)

You are correct that they're not around until Jihad era.  They're also probably the best weapons ever, and are decidedly not suboptimal.

For six tons (and at least one ton of non-explosive ammo.  The non-explosive bit is incredibly useful), you get a weapon that has identical range to the Large Laser, but deals 10 damage and 1d6 heat to anything that tracks heat, which really just means 'Mechs and ASFs.  Against 'Mechs, the 1d6 heat is just an annoyance, but against ASFs it's entirely capable of killing the unit all on its own due to the way the heat scale works for fighters, especially in atmosphere.  Against anything that doesn't track heat, the plasma rifle inflicts 10 damage plus an additional 2d6 damage, for an average of 17 damage per hit (divided into five point clusters).  They were also recently erratad (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,21686.msg568845.html#msg568845) to be much more effective against infantry, far and away better than every single other weapon in the game for killing infantry by killing 10 + 2d6 troopers per hit, which averages out to even higher than the flamer's 4d6 troopers per hit (by three).

I like to call it the Magical Murder Sticktm, because it kills literally everything.  Even battlearmor with fire-resistant armor (Clan tech only, but still) will take damage.  Only five, so it won't outright kill most of the bigger suits, but it's hardly useless even then.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 08, 2013, 12:51:31 pm
From what's been posted about more than one PPC being a bad idea, I don't see ClanTech energy weapons doing any better than IS weapons with regards to heat.  I fully expect to run into Mad Gausscats with LRM's or SSRM-6 launchers with frightening regularity though.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on January 08, 2013, 01:14:03 pm
Are they still planning to bring in the clans this summer or have they decided to wait?

Quote
I would be still wondering if they're going to do with what Mech3 did with the PPCs (if you get shot by it, all your HUD elements get afflicted with static).

One or another of the Q&As said that something along those lines was in the pipe. Though I suspect the pipe is clogged with stuff like community warfare and maps and netcode that aren't abysmal.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: mobcdmoc3 on January 08, 2013, 11:32:19 pm
The world's fastest catapult cruising around the battlefield at 140 kph.

How? Have a friend get under you with a fast mech while you jump jet straight into the air and land on him. So hilariously funny and effective. :lol:

Seriously, it works. It's awesome having a lagshield as a heavy mech.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on January 09, 2013, 05:26:08 am
The world's fastest catapult cruising around the battlefield at 140 kph.

How? Have a friend get under you with a fast mech while you jump jet straight into the air and land on him. So hilariously funny and effective. :lol:

Seriously, it works. It's awesome having a lagshield as a heavy mech.
i'm kind of missing the whole "land with an jumpjetted assault on top of a light, make light go splat" aspect...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: mobcdmoc3 on January 09, 2013, 10:39:35 am
i'm kind of missing the whole "land with an jumpjetted assault on top of a light, make light go splat" aspect...

That's what I thought. The person that helped me perform this said it had something to do with the lack of mech collisions or something. It definitely works.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on January 09, 2013, 11:15:41 am
That's what I thought. The person that helped me perform this said it had something to do with the lack of mech collisions or something. It definitely works.

Yup, saw it too. Apparently, you can run off buildings in frozen city or the bridges in river city and do it too. My new goal in life is to do it with an Atlas.  :D

*e*  :( :lol:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on January 09, 2013, 01:33:36 pm
That's what I thought. The person that helped me perform this said it had something to do with the lack of mech collisions or something. It definitely works.

Yup, saw it too. Apparently, you can run off buildings in frozen city or the bridges in river city and do it too. My new goal in life is to do it with an Atlas.  :D

*e*  :( :lol:

do it on a commando and you shall wing 1 internet ( would have loved to see it on a Flea but they not in atm)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on January 09, 2013, 02:51:49 pm
The person that helped me perform this said it had something to do with the lack of mech collisions or something. It definitely works.

Proper mech-on-mech or mech-against-walls collisions and Death From Above's aren't implemented yet. (The only physics-related damage I've seen is if you fall off a cliff, but how high it has to be I don't know because there's no altimeter in this game.)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on January 09, 2013, 02:55:38 pm
Put an Atlas on top a Commando, then jet at Catapult on top of the Atlas.  Attack the opposing team yelling Go Voltron Force!
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 09, 2013, 03:15:34 pm
Currently running around in MWO with a 4x AC/2 Cataflak build.  Do I do much damage?  Nope.  Is it fun to annoy people from outside their ability to return fire?  Yep.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 10, 2013, 09:50:45 am
Proper mech-on-mech or mech-against-walls collisions and Death From Above's aren't implemented yet.

INCORRECT

'Mech collisions were implemented for about a month, but the problem was that it made heavies and assault artificially powerful. The confined nature of the maps allowed them to easily wipe out lights trying to circle-strafe or slash at them; not by damage, but by the simple expedient of knocking them over. Getting up, effectively frozen in place, they died very quickly.

So collisions were pulled.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on January 10, 2013, 10:45:03 am
Yes getting knocked on your ass and shot to pieces if you came in contact with a heavier class wasn't much fun.  Though I might have just changed the collision values required to knock over a mech rather than completely removed it.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on January 10, 2013, 01:01:05 pm
Proper mech-on-mech or mech-against-walls collisions and Death From Above's aren't implemented yet.
INCORRECT

'Mech collisions were implemented for about a month, but the problem was that it made heavies and assault artificially powerful. The confined nature of the maps allowed them to easily wipe out lights trying to circle-strafe or slash at them; not by damage, but by the simple expedient of knocking them over. Getting up, effectively frozen in place, they died very quickly.

So collisions were pulled.
i consider that to be a very valid tactic against the little circle-strafing ****s.
"Got too close? Whoops, sorry for stepping on you."

i find a lot of their "design choices" to be piss poor. first and foremost of all, no love for ppc's :p

also, what starslayer said. getting stomped in cat by a noob in an atlas was never fun. (especially if he was on your team)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on January 10, 2013, 02:41:05 pm
I don't think you realize how bad it was.  The lagshield worked actively against Lights, meaning you could knock them over without ever actually touching them or coming within ten meters or so.  It made lights absolutely useless.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on January 10, 2013, 04:07:21 pm
I don't think you realize how bad it was.  The lagshield worked actively against Lights, meaning you could knock them over without ever actually touching them or coming within ten meters or so.  It made lights absolutely useless.
as i said, i agree with what starslayer said. cutting it out completely was a dumb move, tweaking it properly would've been nicer.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: mobcdmoc3 on January 10, 2013, 05:34:56 pm
Despite what I've said before about the Stalker, I decided to grab one myself and try to figure out what made it so compelling to other people. I picked up the 3F variant and loaded it with 4 medium pulse lasers, a pair of large pulse lasers, and 4 streak SRMs. To top it off, I threw in double heat sinks, a BAP, and threw in the remaining tonnage to armor.

I intended to turn it into a close-range behemoth, and that it is. 4 streak SRMs can make quick work of any light mech that dares stay in my sights for too long, and the chainfiring the pulse lasers allows for a non-stop stream of suppressive firepower that discourages many people while at the same time doing a decent amount of damage.

So - Enjoyable, but somewhat fragile. :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on January 11, 2013, 09:11:21 pm
Yeah, the beauty of the Stalker is that you can boat it for anything, and it can kill anything damn near fast. (The most common downfall of it is just proper heat management is required.)

I was playing a Raven-3L (two M-Lasers, 1 M-Pulse, 2 Streak-2s) and had two ECM Commandos on my side... won six matches straight, and we wreaked havoc on a lot of Mechs (we were able to slaughter or at the least annoy a hell of a lot of lights and heavies, and most of the time, we had at most two casualties).

Scoring kill shots on Atlases and Laser-boat Hunchbacks has never been so much fun.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on January 11, 2013, 09:19:34 pm
Lights in packs or pairs tend to be pretty vicious especially when you can leverage cover. 
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on January 11, 2013, 10:47:40 pm
*cough* Lag shield *cough* :p

Quote
I was playing a Raven-3L (two M-Lasers, 1 M-Pulse, 2 Streak-2s)

Why not just go 2MPL or three MLs + an extra DHS?

I too caved and bought a Stalker.  I didn't likes it. :nono: I miss having arms to absorb long range fire and the beautiful dakka song of UACs I got with my Atlasaurus. And then I hit a Commando in the back with 5 ASRM6s and the carcass flew like 30 meters. :D I'm still not sure if that is a sign of lulz to come or payment for suffering with it through a dozen matches before then.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 12, 2013, 02:05:23 am
I miss having arms to absorb long range fire

The weird thing is the Stalker is literally the only 'Mech that never comes back with arms still attached if I die. Possibly because of a lack side torsos too.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on January 12, 2013, 08:14:10 am
I just got myself a 5N so I could start eliting the dragons, decked it out with AC5/UAC5/SSRM2/2xML.  When assaults stand still let the lulz begin.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on January 15, 2013, 08:11:55 pm
The Spider has been released today. Now what?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on January 15, 2013, 10:23:20 pm
The Spider has been released today. Now what?

Laugh at how terrible it is?

also: sensor decay. Nothing like LRM boats everywhere whose lock you can't break with cover.

*supar imporant edited post edition*   double xp weekend this weekend! (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/01/16/spider-mech-infests-mechwarrior-online-ahead-of-double-xp-weeken/)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Flaser on January 17, 2013, 05:53:57 am
The Spider has been released today. Now what?

Laugh at how terrible it is?

also: sensor decay. Nothing like LRM boats everywhere whose lock you can't break with cover.

*supar imporant edited post edition*   double xp weekend this weekend! (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/01/16/spider-mech-infests-mechwarrior-online-ahead-of-double-xp-weeken/)

(http://nogutsnogalaxy.net/wp-content/gallery/ngng-comic-strips/comic-0009-lrms.png)

...those pesky scouts can really ruin your day :D
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on January 17, 2013, 02:29:53 pm
bwahahahaha XD

this made my day honestly.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on January 23, 2013, 08:10:23 pm
News from the front:

Patch is up. Hero Commando (four lasers), some memleaks supposedly fixed, there's a boat in Forest Colony Snow, NARC/TAG spots get paid... and that's all I know.

Oh and we get Betty's startup sequence (player turns on console, and everything powers up in countdown).

The Spider has been released today. Now what?

Laugh at how terrible it is?


*cue Spider Pig theme* All it takes is probably an anti-ECM unit, a few Streak volleys and some accurate laser aiming, and that's that.

One time, I was in Caustic in my Shortcat, and while I was throwing alpha volleys into an Atlas's back... a Spider showed up in my face, then one alpha volley and I basically turned him to mech shrapnel (I cored all his torso sections and blew off his arms).

Still, that was a bit cooler than another Caustic encounter in my L-Laser Cat-C1 (3 LLs, 2 SSRM-2s). There were about four Atlases, but I was able to expose their front CTs with the 3LLs (which is why one-by-one popups are a bit of a bad idea), then it was easy pickings for the rest of the team. What was sad was that I was at 350 meters and nobody took pot shots against me (one of the Phracts had LB-10X ACs, which could have hurt me).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on January 23, 2013, 09:28:54 pm
Netcode seems to be much less bad than it used to be too. Less bad meaning I spent the first three-four matches wondering why I couldn't hit light mechs with my patented 'turn so they are on the edge of your screen and shoot straight ahead' technique. And then I was like OH **** I CAN SHOOT THE MODEL AND IT REGISTERS DAMAGE!

So many sad little Ravens got nom'd in the face with AC10s. :D
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on January 24, 2013, 09:30:27 am
I am pleased with this update.  It wasn't big in terms of content, but they did address some critical issues.  For me, I can now play more than 2 games without getting the dreaded 4 fps/block-text bug, and have a higher fps in general.  I think the mech startup sequence is a nice addition, beats out the boring countdown.  I am also very enthused by what I read here (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/92940-ask-the-devs-30-answers/) and I can't wait to see where it goes.  I just hope they hurry it up, the anticipation is killing me.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: -Joshua- on January 24, 2013, 01:28:20 pm
Quote
I think the mech startup sequence is a nice addition, beats out the boring countdown.

You mean that "Reactor: Online - Weapon Systems: Online - Sensors: Online" is in the game?

Neat.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Patriot on January 24, 2013, 03:57:17 pm
Not like in MW3 though, voice-sound-wise, but it's in alright :)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 24, 2013, 04:16:25 pm
They did supposedly get the MW2 Betty, but I have little memory of it.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: bigchunk1 on January 24, 2013, 05:29:30 pm
I am pleased with this update.  It wasn't big in terms of content, but they did address some critical issues.  For me, I can now play more than 2 games without getting the dreaded 4 fps/block-text bug, and have a higher fps in general.  I think the mech startup sequence is a nice addition, beats out the boring countdown.  I am also very enthused by what I read here (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/92940-ask-the-devs-30-answers/) and I can't wait to see where it goes.  I just hope they hurry it up, the anticipation is killing me.

Yeah, they messed with some stuff. I got this really nasty retro TV pixelated bug that just ruined one of my games. I think overall things are improving though.

Those combat support strikes seem pretty cool. I don't see how they can implement such a thing without going pay-to-win though.

I hope they buff the **** out of machine guns. That would be nice for the Dragon-5N.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on January 24, 2013, 06:07:20 pm

Those combat support strikes seem pretty cool. I don't see how they can implement such a thing without going pay-to-win though.

I hope they buff the **** out of machine guns. That would be nice for the Dragon-5N.

1. I also heard that for base defense missions in Assault, if you have a Command Console, you could be able to control the defense turrets (that's coming way later, I think). Hopefully discourages the assault rush...

2. As much as I would love to see classic Machine Guns in action (2 damage with 200 rounds per ton), or even a really good damage/ROF buff, I can't think but imagine hearing "hurr durr AC/2s are useless, ye bastards"* in my head all the time.

* I have seen quite a few AC/2 operators fight rather competently, though 4x5 Phracts and Ultra Ilyas give me more cause for concern.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on January 25, 2013, 06:48:16 am
2. As much as I would love to see classic Machine Guns in action (2 damage with 200 rounds per ton), or even a really good damage/ROF buff, I can't think but imagine hearing "hurr durr AC/2s are useless, ye bastards"* in my head all the time.
you are aware that this would probably bring back the legging tactics from mw4:mercs to mwo?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 25, 2013, 05:55:48 pm
You mean that "Reactor: Online - Weapon Systems: Online - Sensors: Online" is in the game?

This is honestly the most important thing they've done yet, if you ask somebody who's been in as long as I have. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Q8GA1THIShg)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Flaser on January 28, 2013, 07:53:40 am
I am pleased with this update.  It wasn't big in terms of content, but they did address some critical issues.  For me, I can now play more than 2 games without getting the dreaded 4 fps/block-text bug, and have a higher fps in general.  I think the mech startup sequence is a nice addition, beats out the boring countdown.  I am also very enthused by what I read here (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/92940-ask-the-devs-30-answers/) and I can't wait to see where it goes.  I just hope they hurry it up, the anticipation is killing me.

Yeah, they messed with some stuff. I got this really nasty retro TV pixelated bug that just ruined one of my games. I think overall things are improving though.

Those combat support strikes seem pretty cool. I don't see how they can implement such a thing without going pay-to-win though.

I hope they buff the **** out of machine guns. That would be nice for the Dragon-5N.

You can only buy cosmetic stuff and mechs with real money. The former is obviously a non-issue, the later (except for hero mechs) can be earned in-game... but modules can only be "gained" through grinding, no exceptions.

Hero mechs have a custom paint-job and grant a bonus (+30%) to money, so yeah, they make it easier to *buy* modules once unlocked, but before that you have to earn them the old fashioned way (playing).

2. As much as I would love to see classic Machine Guns in action (2 damage with 200 rounds per ton), or even a really good damage/ROF buff, I can't think but imagine hearing "hurr durr AC/2s are useless, ye bastards"* in my head all the time.
you are aware that this would probably bring back the legging tactics from mw4:mercs to mwo?

Machine guns have a slightly different role in MWO, namely as crit-seekers. Criticals works slightly different than they did in older games or tabletop. Until a section is stripped of armor, criticals don't happen, but once stripped each and every hit has a chance to knock something out...

...now the machine-gun doesn't do much damage. Never will... but it fires pretty darn fast, has plenty of ammo and each and every hit on an exposed area has a chance to knock something out.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on January 28, 2013, 10:31:56 am
...now the machine-gun doesn't do much damage. Never will... but it fires pretty darn fast, has plenty of ammo and each and every hit on an exposed area has a chance to knock something out.

No it doesn't, because items have hitpoints (10 per), it still makes MGs useless. Even with every bullet hitting for 3x (internal hits can do 1/2/3x dmg) it takes 83 MG rounds to knock out a single untouched item.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on January 28, 2013, 12:17:43 pm
And strap 6 MGs to a Spider each with a ROF of ~25 rounds/second and what do we have?  Mech swiss cheese.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on January 28, 2013, 12:43:45 pm
And strap 6 MGs to a Spider each with a ROF of ~25 rounds/second and what do we have?  Mech swiss cheese.

The Spider or its target?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on January 28, 2013, 02:07:42 pm
The spider :D

And Mr. Spidey only gets 4MGs, so while that might* work on a 'nothing but an AC20' torso on an Atlas**, the guns are useless against a crit-packed torso that doesn't have a big single item to take all of the hits.

*supposing my couldn't-be-bothered-to-check dmg rate for MGs was right (0.04/shot)

** supposing here that when you're sitting there plunking away, he laughs so hard he can't aim to blow the spider in half :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on February 01, 2013, 09:35:49 pm
Some news from No Guts No Galaxy (unless you listened):

1. Trebuchet to be released later this month.

2. TWO new maps (as in not night conversions)! One of them's Alpine something, the other is to be a desert-like area.

3. PPCs will be able to counteract ECM. (One burst = ECM brought offline for a five second window.)

4. Artemis FCS will receive a buff (the specifics I don't know, I wasn't able to listen to that part).

Unrelated, I said "screw it" with my Shortcat, I'm sticking to one of my AccurCats (2LL/2ML/2 Streak-2 or 3LL/2 Streak-2). Does quite some damage, but I prefer using range more often (I don't use it for bread and butter damage, I use it for "surgical debuffing"). Strangely, I tend to find myself killing Cataphracts more often than not for some reason...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on February 01, 2013, 09:55:58 pm
4. Artemis FCS will receive a buff (the specifics I don't know, I wasn't able to listen to that part).

I think this is the Artemis change (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sub2J-bJBRo) Or else its just a hypnotically purdy video. :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on February 05, 2013, 03:49:50 pm
So... "Pretty Baby" ... lamest name for an awesome ever. Also, featuring a "I'm a wanker! SHOOT ME NOW!" paintjob. might as well just have a neon sign hovering over it.

also... "MASSIVE BIG FPS IMPROVEMENTS!" my ass. dropping settings to low helped push the game over 60 fps hilariously. with medium settings i get a ****ing 12-15fps slideshow.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 05, 2013, 11:24:51 pm
with medium settings i get a ****ing 12-15fps slideshow.

Have you considered getting a card that does not suck?

Mine's over five years old and runs the game at medium and high settings gloriously fine.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on February 06, 2013, 04:22:42 am
with medium settings i get a ****ing 12-15fps slideshow.

Have you considered getting a card that does not suck?

Mine's over five years old and runs the game at medium and high settings gloriously fine.
my gtx 260 is not that old and it runs pretty much everything but this just fine.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Mikes on February 06, 2013, 10:26:34 am
with medium settings i get a ****ing 12-15fps slideshow.

Have you considered getting a card that does not suck?

Mine's over five years old and runs the game at medium and high settings gloriously fine.
my gtx 260 is not that old and it runs pretty much everything but this just fine.

Mh... actually it is that old and was only a midrange card to begin with. It will still run less demanding games, but recent games that actually make use of recent hardware...  don't expect miracles.

Even looking at an older Benchmark like 3dmark 2006 the Geforce260 sits at a score of about 8000, while a modern highend card like the HD7970 comes in at about 25.000. In newer benchmarks it will likely get worse. Furthermore...  your 260 probably has a pitiful amount of video memory compared to modern cards which means that modern games that actually need that memory will just run terrible.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on February 06, 2013, 10:29:48 am
Cryengine3 has ****ty ****ty ****ty cpu optimization on dx9, so that's probably what is killing your fps. When/If they ever do dx11, performance should not suck for everyone with a half-way modern computer. And it doesn't even mean you have a bad cpu either, I get the same frame rate on an i5 as an otherwise much weaker fx4100, same res, same gpu :nono:


As for this patch. K2. 4LPL. 300xl. Nom Nom Nom.  :lol:

And Pretty Baby is the ****. 90kph. erppc, 2mpl, 3srm4. zoom zoom pew pew zoom zoom. and that torso twist range is delicious.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on February 15, 2013, 05:18:03 pm
Free premium day offered to everyone, this weekend.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on February 16, 2013, 04:10:30 am
Free premium day offered to everyone, this weekend.
they really are milking that ****, arent they?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on February 19, 2013, 12:30:11 pm
Free premium day offered to everyone, this weekend.
they really are milking that ****, arent they?

Milking what?

Also: These patch notes (https://mwomercs.com/game/patch-notes). Orgasmic.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on February 19, 2013, 01:48:20 pm
Yup, Flamers, MGs, and LB-10X AC's are going to be cool crit-killers.

PPC EMP, NARC signals to all friendlies, and OH MY GOD THE TREBUCHET.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on February 19, 2013, 02:33:51 pm
Aw yeah, this is why I bought my PPC Catapult!

Though I'm pretty sure that my custom Centurion CN9-A could still take it in a stand up fight.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on February 19, 2013, 03:37:59 pm
PPC effect is so much fun. It has dramatically ramped up the rage from the dwellers of the SWU. 'Wahh. I disablesded the Atlas' ecm, why you no shoot him lots with lrms!1111'

And with the AC/20 HP bump, I've got maximum tear-bottling capability for 80% longer. :D

Now, if I could just find more than one match in five tries on Mister Stomp'n'smash.


*e* and now they pulled the matchmaking. Amazing how after just a dozen or so matches with competent team mates and a delicious absence of trialers and SWUers on either team, my ability to put up with their suck and try to herd them has vanished. Le. Sigh. :nono:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: The E on February 20, 2013, 07:21:01 am
Been playing this a bit again. It's still borderline unplayable on my system (Just like Crysis 2 was), but a lot of fun nonetheless. Looking forward to playing this properly once my new PC is complete.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on February 20, 2013, 04:37:14 pm
Switched my K2 to double heat sinks (incredible performance and weight boost), and slapped in a pair of machine guns and flamers to pester anything that gets too close. It's working a lot better than before.

And Alpine is a very fun map to play.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on February 20, 2013, 09:23:03 pm
I really wanted to like this game. I still want to like it.
I just don't like it.

Will check back again in a year. If there is still a community left by that point. (what a waste of 60 dollars)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on February 26, 2013, 12:37:34 pm
... LB-10X AC's are going to be cool crit-killers.


Still pretty much garbage sadly. No. Not so sadly. It's kind of satisfying coming out on top of a 3-1 atlas brawl without even losing an arm cause they were all packing lbx's. MG at least benefit from the conditioned response of 'oh. lulz. those can't do any... Oh **** my srms are gone!'

Love my buckets so, so much. Can't figure out how to do anything good with the -7K, but all of the others are the sex.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on March 01, 2013, 11:17:36 pm
I rode in my Shotgun K2 again, believe me, I ended up coring two Atlases and a Hunchback with just 60 rounds of ammo and 4 MLs to back it up. (Well, I also had help, but I was able to actually crit the damn Mechs for once, not just peel off their armor.)

MGs at least benefit from the conditioned response of 'oh. lulz. those can't do any... Oh **** my srms are gone!'

I was left for dead by a Kuritan Lance against an MG Spider Monkey. Next match we met, the conversation got a bit more interesting (I accidentally shot one of them in the back).

Also, rumors circulate of a bloody Hero Cicada (known as the 5-X). Honestly, I'm gonna say "not worth it."
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on March 01, 2013, 11:34:40 pm
I rode in my Shotgun K2 again, believe me, I ended up coring two Atlases and a Hunchback with just 60 rounds of ammo and 4 MLs to back it up. (Well, I also had help, but I was able to actually crit the damn Mechs for once, not just peel off their armor.)

AC/10s can destroy components too. And armor. And they actually hit what you aim at from more than 90m away. :p


Quote
Also, rumors circulate of a bloody Hero Cicada (known as the 5-X). Honestly, I'm gonna say "not worth it."

Are any of them worth it?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on March 02, 2013, 09:04:01 am
I rode in my Shotgun K2 again, believe me, I ended up coring two Atlases and a Hunchback with just 60 rounds of ammo and 4 MLs to back it up. (Well, I also had help, but I was able to actually crit the damn Mechs for once, not just peel off their armor.)

AC/10s can destroy components too. And armor. And they actually hit what you aim at from more than 90m away. :p


Quote
Also, rumors circulate of a bloody Hero Cicada (known as the 5-X). Honestly, I'm gonna say "not worth it."

Are any of them worth it?
well, the pretty baby might be, since its the epitome of "Giggle, giggle, murder, zoom, zoom" :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on March 04, 2013, 10:27:23 pm
News from the front regarding this month's changes. (http://mwomercs.com/news/2013/03/618-2013-march-creative-director-update)

Finally, training grounds. Don't have to test my Mechs in Trial By Fire as much.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on March 05, 2013, 12:09:05 am
This consumable thing is a disaster in the making. It'd be fun to watch if I didn't kind of like the game. Oh well I guess.  :nono:

*e* I just blowed up 3 babbies with mah srms and they exploded all funny like. Not a bad send-off.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 05, 2013, 05:43:17 pm
This consumable thing is a disaster in the making.

It's been planned to call this stuff since forever, were you under a rock?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Suongadon on March 05, 2013, 06:16:16 pm
Consumables, not a problem. Consumables that are mc only and superior to cbills variants, problem.   And even if you wantto argue otherwise (nd i am not really disagreeable on that point), a hundred and fifty+ pages of rage and quit-threats over it is a pretty debilitating blow to the community. Gonna get a smidge empty atop Mt. Tryhard without them.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on April 02, 2013, 01:42:00 am
Double XP weekend has passed (got to Master my Centurion A and AL, and started on the Raven 2X and 4X).

Read about 40 pages on arguing about third person view (won't go there because nothing's being solved/discussed on that front without attracting utter bickering), new Tourmaline Desert (as much as I like the jaggedy crystals and wreckage and better performance, for me it's Gauss abuse bait), the JagerMech's out (and probably surpassing the Catapult for "most cheese-build candidates in the Heavy class" (think dual Gauss, dual 20, yadda yadda yadda), and they added the coolant flush.

Nothing yet on strike calls, although they tried to clear the air a bit on how it will work. (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/103677-consumables-back-to-the-drawing-board/)

Not sure about anything regarding community warfare or merc corps stuff. From what I've heard, at some point in time, they're probably going to fine-tune NVG and change Thermal Optics to white-hot mode (and probably limit the range so as to stop sniper abuse under blue-hot mode).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on April 02, 2013, 08:15:34 am
Funny enough, seems like quite a few Jagers are running XLs, I assume to eek out something approaching speed when they've loaded the mech down with half its weight in guns and ammo.   Since I'm typically already trying to strip off some of the weapons quite a few times I've pumped  a couple AC 20 rounds into the side torso only to watch them fall over dead.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: mobcdmoc3 on April 02, 2013, 09:14:10 am
I went through all the Jager's and Elited them out for the sake of getting a dose of ballistics. Unfortunately, it seems that XL engines are the way to go - Otherwise you can't use all the hardpoints. And if you can't use all the hardpoints, you're not really using it to its fullest potential.

Surprisingly enough, cramming 4 machine-guns and a pair of AC10's is surprisingly effective. Having a constant red pinging on your screen appears to be psychologically intimidating to most people, and for those that aren't - The AC10's put them down.

Having 4 AC2's is also a blast. It's hilarious watching enemies try to return fire while you're bombarding them. It's also surprisingly powerful - An Atlas can get leveled in less than 15 seconds under it. (You can do this with a Cataphract-4X if you can deal with the low-hanging arms.)

Running a Jenner-K at the moment. It's about the closest I can get to dogfighting while chasing down other jump-jet capable mechs.

Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on April 02, 2013, 10:25:21 am
I tried a 4x AC/2 -4X and couldn't get it to work for me, so I switched to a UAC/5 in each arm, 2ML in the CT, and an SSRM-2 in the head.  This also let me put more tonnage towards ammo and the all-important CASE for when you're lugging around 8 tons of explodium (6 tons UAC/5 ammo, 1 ton AMS ammo, 1 ton SSRM-2 ammo).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: mobcdmoc3 on April 02, 2013, 01:05:30 pm
The key to getting the maximum screen-shaking and intimidation effect is to group two AC2's in each arm, chain fire, and then when you've got an alternating firing-pattern between the two, hold your finger on your Alpha-Strike button. If you get it right, you'll start unloading ammunition into your target an obscene rate of fire. Most Atlas pilots even flee when the barrage starts. (I should also note that you need to have endo-steel and ferro fibrous in order to cram in the most amount of ammunition, and that you have to deal with being a little bit slow with the 4X's default engine) Take an XL-engine with a Jagermech, and this problem is remedied, however you'll have to be more careful.

I tend to leave the ammo in the legs, in the head, and in the CT (unless it's AMS or MG ammo). Most people are more interested in shooting your giant torsos, so keeping them away from there is the better option. They could try to shoot your legs, but if they fail to do that in short order - You'll tear them apart. I figured that if they manage to strip enough armor to blow up the ammo in my CT, I'm probably dead anyways, so I don't mind not running around with CASE. :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on April 02, 2013, 01:13:29 pm
I upgraded to a standard 255 as one of my first purchases for it.  I'm still a little slow at 59 kph, but no way can I go XL with ES and DHS taking up a ton of slots, and I don't think I'll ever go XL unless the Mech comes with it due to how ridiculously expensive XL engines are.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on April 03, 2013, 08:34:57 pm
HBK-4H (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=9&l=8ae709c7d1d696502e8d88917a87c95d45dd5c46) my current steed.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on April 04, 2013, 10:29:19 am
Been having loads of fun with this Stalker (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=47&l=a616f104c654fa0ec091e82645cf833907568260).  A threat at any range.  I'll typically ease off the ERPPCs when I get close and stick to the Streaks and Large Lasers.

And the other two I've got planned to get to Elite:
STK-5S (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=50&l=d81d2658b61b11da295dc64189b5c91da2cf980a) Wheee SRMs!
STK-5M (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=46&l=8a66aad691a8292f9949f4fc9b9dee771cfa53b7) Wheee LRMs!
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 19, 2013, 07:01:58 pm
Fri. Apr 19, 3050: ComStar confirms Combine worlds off line: Richmond, Tarnby, Idlewind, Schwartz, Rockland, Bjarred, Turtle Bay. (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/113786-isn-news-flash/)

IT'S HAPPENING.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on April 19, 2013, 08:02:16 pm
OH ****.  AND I'M MISSING IT.

RAGE.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 19, 2013, 08:04:01 pm
I just dropped onto River City Night and was not immediately swarmed by Timber Wolves.


Am disappoint.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Nyarly on April 22, 2013, 01:28:19 am
So the Clan Invasion of the Inner Sphere proper was delayed for a month?  :P 

(It started in March in canon.)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: General Battuta on April 22, 2013, 01:32:10 am
Fri. Apr 19, 3050: ComStar confirms Combine worlds off line: Richmond, Tarnby, Idlewind, Schwartz, Rockland, Bjarred, Turtle Bay. (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/113786-isn-news-flash/)

IT'S HAPPENING.

FSL:DKK TEWOIJT{ ****CKKKKKK
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on April 22, 2013, 08:13:14 am
So the Clan Invasion of the Inner Sphere proper was delayed for a month?  :P 

(It started in March in canon.)

No.  The dates are exactly the same.  Keep in mind that the MWO announcements are from an in-character perspective, with all the communication lag and uncertainty that entails.

EDIT: Added quote for clarity.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on April 22, 2013, 12:24:33 pm
Gotta get back into practice with my Centurion and Catapult if I want any chance against whatever is causing all that ruckus ohgod.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on April 22, 2013, 02:51:39 pm
Wheeee clans.  Too late for me, though.  I've given up on MWO.  Two patches ago they changed something that halved virtually everyone's framerates (judging by the majority of gripes from their Patch Feedback section).  Personally, I went from ~24 to ~12.  There's dramatic latency between where the client thinks I am pointing and where my screen is showing me I'm pointing, and I have to be very slow when lining up shots, otherwise a quick twitch to readjust causes a massive overshoot.  In the age of ERPPC/ERLL/Gauss alphastrikeocalypse, this means I'm half dead by the time I've landed my first successful shot, and I average about 75 damage per round.  It's just not fun to play this way.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on April 24, 2013, 08:01:15 am
Wheeee clans.  Too late for me, though.  I've given up on MWO.  Two patches ago they changed something that halved virtually everyone's framerates (judging by the majority of gripes from their Patch Feedback section).  Personally, I went from ~24 to ~12.  There's dramatic latency between where the client thinks I am pointing and where my screen is showing me I'm pointing, and I have to be very slow when lining up shots, otherwise a quick twitch to readjust causes a massive overshoot.  In the age of ERPPC/ERLL/Gauss alphastrikeocalypse, this means I'm half dead by the time I've landed my first successful shot, and I average about 75 damage per round.  It's just not fun to play this way.
  :sigh:
I still have 60 invested in this game... and I'm still waiting for it to get better.
I really should have went through with getting that refund instead of being convinced by a friendly support/dev mail not to.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on April 24, 2013, 02:51:23 pm
Don't get me wrong, the game is fun when it's playing at decent speeds.  It's just... it's not.  They've got $15 of mine because I wanted more mechbays, and I believe that was a well-spent $15.  I'm gonna check back when they release new patches in hopes they've managed to solve their atrocious framerates.  They said some CryEngine improvements are due in May, hopefully they'll have cleaned up their render pipeline.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on April 24, 2013, 03:53:55 pm
personally i'm playing at 7-8 fps during heavy fighting and its barely playable for me.

****ty laptop. -.-
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on April 24, 2013, 08:13:18 pm
10 to 12 FPS here. Back then, I COULD play at 15 to 20 (20 to 30 on Alpine or Tourmaline), but now I can't even get a consistent 250+ score (on decent matches, I could get 400 and a crapload of savior bonuses and component crits, on peak performance, 750). The only way I can get some sort of slight FPS boon is to switch between my native laptop display and my old LCD monitor.

Now I can only get a 115 damage average in my Cats, my  MSL Centurion (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=7&l=69873cf7c7544815533f0d1b2a05c4194fce44ff) is worthless and I would have to wait for missile state rewind for it to work...

... right now, I'm only making dough from an idiotically rigged Raven 2X (it has an LL and an ER PPC, goes at 95 KPH).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on April 24, 2013, 10:40:39 pm
A 2X with LL and ERPPC?  How does that not die instantly?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on April 25, 2013, 02:13:09 am
A 2X with LL and ERPPC?  How does that not die instantly?

[wine]Practice, sniping, staying at second line,  a crappy 205 standard, almost maxed out ferro armor, endo (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=34&l=fc094684ccdc137b5dc89229630dc406f78896e4), and flagrant abuse of ER PPCs at a kilometer and as a "get off the hill" message.[/wine]

Sad enough on Alpine assault, my entire team died and I basically was able to not get shot by their snipers in that crap 2X (their ERLLs and Gauss shots didn't pop me at a kilometer). Their fast movers did not find me at all (I was trying to wind down the clock, see what happens if the time goes to zero, but they decided to cap the base with a minute left on the clock).

EDIT: I got sick of the Raven, so I sold my 2X. Just have to fundgrind for a Centurion-D (so I can bloody Elite that and Master my A and AL, and nab the 300XL so I can use it for a Jenner or a Trebuchet). Having to win 30 times unperked is not fun.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 25, 2013, 04:47:26 am
Y'know, I would have honestly believed you had higher FPS from how you play, esarai.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on April 27, 2013, 02:17:52 am
Awww, thank you.  I try. 

I enjoy laughing at the plebes on the MWO forums who complain about getting 60 fps.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on April 27, 2013, 09:41:01 am
Awww, thank you.  I try. 

I enjoy laughing at the plebes on the MWO forums who complain about getting 60 fps.
I enjoy laughing at the plebes that play games on such subpar equipment that they cannot even get 30fps  :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on May 14, 2013, 03:49:39 pm
Today, they said they're nailing down most of the plaguing HUD issues with a patch today, and they figured out what happened (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/117769-hud-bug-brief/page__pid__2348823#entry2348823). (Technical wall of text ahoy.)

According to what Paul says about the May update, (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/73536-weapon-balancing/) there should be a tweak to LB-10X (cone of fire tightened), damage increase to Machine Guns (well, to .08), BAP nullifying one ECM, dedicated ECM hardpoint, and missile tweaking (higher velocity, and damage).

Well, I don't know what to say on the latter.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on May 14, 2013, 11:52:35 pm
Well, I don't know what to say on the latter.

Well, with my new Catapult C1, I say "woot".
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Fearless Leader on May 25, 2013, 10:20:22 pm
Wow, I was trying to look up  some user.cfg fixes when I stumbled upon this thread. It's good to know HLP is still around a kicking.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on June 28, 2013, 02:36:59 pm
(http://static.mwomercs.com/img/phoenix/mechs_sorrycouldnothelpmyself.png?thanksforbeinggoodsports)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on June 28, 2013, 03:45:57 pm
Do want that Battlemaster.  The Thunderbolt looks way too much like a Summoner for me to take it seriously, though.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on June 28, 2013, 04:17:27 pm
TBH, I hate what they did with all the mechs. The Atlas is pretty much the only clearly recognizable one, and that's only because it's already very distinctive. I'm not sure if to hope that they implement a Daishi after the Clans arrive, or to hope they don't, because they'll ruin my favorite design. This "Thunder Bolt" (it's "Thunderbolt" everywhere else, BTW) is just a mislabeled Summoner and their Catapult took me a looong while to find similarities to the actual CAT. They might be pretty, but look nothing like they're supposed to.

Oh, BTW, I'm now playing MW1 and noticed that 3 of those 4 already appeared in the first MW game. :) And that's probably the one game where they're even less recognizable than in MWO... but that's probably due to the fact they consist of ~30 solid-colored polygons in there (2D graphics of them are accurate, BTW).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Hades on June 28, 2013, 04:39:11 pm
TBH, I hate what they did with all the mechs. The Atlas is pretty much the only clearly recognizable one, and that's only because it's already very distinctive. I'm not sure if to hope that they implement a Daishi after the Clans arrive, or to hope they don't, because they'll ruin my favorite design. This "Thunder Bolt" (it's "Thunderbolt" everywhere else, BTW) is just a mislabeled Summoner and their Catapult took me a looong while to find similarities to the actual CAT. They might be pretty, but look nothing like they're supposed to.

Oh, BTW, I'm now playing MW1 and noticed that 3 of those 4 already appeared in the first MW game. :) And that's probably the one game where they're even less recognizable than in MWO... but that's probably due to the fact they consist of ~30 solid-colored polygons in there (2D graphics of them are accurate, BTW).
Are you kidding? The art style is most definitely the best thing about MWO. It looks immensely better than anything else Battletech.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on June 28, 2013, 04:44:24 pm
Not a MechWarrior vet, aren't you? Or a BT vet for that matter, some of them (looking at you, "Catapult") have literally nothing in common with the original artwork. They simply don't look right. Atlas is nice and Awesome looks decent, but for other stuff...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on June 28, 2013, 04:53:38 pm
That's because the original artwork is in many cases absolute garbage.  Have you seen the TRO artwork for designs like the Orion and Stalker?  The MWO art team has done an excellent job of making modern, high-definition BattleMech designs.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on June 28, 2013, 05:07:17 pm
WTF Dragon.  If MWO did one thing right, it was doing a stunning job modernising 80s mech designs.  They're all miles better than the TRO art, without exception.

And I am a MW vet, so don't think you can hide behind "oh you just don't get it, you're new".
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Hades on June 28, 2013, 05:08:40 pm
Not a MechWarrior vet, aren't you? Or a BT vet for that matter, some of them (looking at you, "Catapult") have literally nothing in common with the original artwork. They simply don't look right. Atlas is nice and Awesome looks decent, but for other stuff...
I am, actually. Not that it'd actually matter since it's irrelevant. I'd echo what Sparda and Aesaar said but since they're right there's no point.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 28, 2013, 05:39:21 pm
This "Thunder Bolt" (it's "Thunderbolt" everywhere else, BTW) is just a mislabeled Summoner

Not a MechWarrior vet, aren't you?

The fact you were able to compose these lines in consecutive posts tells me a great deal about your own credentials as a long-time fan. (The resemblance between the two designs has always been intentional.) Now get out before I'm tempted to throw my first edition copy of Lost Destiny at you as a method of showing who actually knows and loves this universe.

(And what the hell is with your recent swing into trolling negativity, man? You used to be helpful, now you're just looking for every possible excuse to be offensive.)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: The E on June 28, 2013, 05:54:48 pm
(http://www.explosion.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/mwo-catapult1-600x369.jpg)

(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/7/76/3025_Catapult1.jpg)

Yep. Sure looks nothing alike.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Polpolion on June 28, 2013, 05:57:21 pm
Not a MechWarrior vet, aren't you? Or a BT vet for that matter, some of them (looking at you, "Catapult") have literally nothing in common with the original artwork. They simply don't look right. Atlas is nice and Awesome looks decent, but for other stuff...

I agree with Hades and co here. The original artwork in plenty of cases is just plain silly (just look at the protomech art). I honestly have no idea why you seem to have trouble recognizing what mech is what. The only interpretation I'm even close to not liking is their Centurion.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on June 28, 2013, 07:10:31 pm
to be honest, i'd like the nose on the cat to be a bit rounder, but other than that? its a cat alright.

as a side note, whilst the mad cat (timber wolf) is a given when the clans show up, i'd love to see the vulture (mad dog) (why? running away and shooting them in the face was always so fun with it, altough granted, its the worst possible way to use a vulture :p ) and behemoth (stone rhino) too.

behemoth especially.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on June 28, 2013, 09:28:51 pm
fwiw, I love the look of the new catapult. I've played MW since MW2, and in every game that the cat appeared in, I would be too embarrassed to drive it. And looking at the centurion on sarna, I love the new one so much better.

Man, I gotta play this more.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 28, 2013, 09:41:27 pm
I am curious how they'll do the the Omnis, though. The original ones all looked like a set of kitbashes using similar parts, and that made sense considering they were standardized, modular designs. I'd kind of like to see that again, but I don't think it'll happen that way.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on June 30, 2013, 04:08:59 am
Yep. Sure looks nothing alike.
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/c/c7/CLPT-Catapult.png)
Depends on which artwork you're using, the MWO CAT is way too boxy for my liking. In general, I prefer the classic, smoother look.

Also, while Thunderbolt does resemble the Summoner, it's not identical:
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/c/c6/TDR-1C_Thunderbolt.jpg)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on June 30, 2013, 04:17:57 am
What? MWO's Catapult still resembles the one you used. And LOADS better too! Your argument still doesn't make sense since you said it looked nothing like the original. The E already proved you wrong there. And if you think the one that The E posted and yours is different, the lack of consistency would be yet another reason to not use the original art.

And your argument about the Thunderbolt makes even less sense. The MWO's Thunderbolt looks pretty much like that picture you posted. I guess you're saying that they're doing an excellent job with the designs?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: The E on June 30, 2013, 04:30:43 am
Dragon, the thing is, especially in the CAT's case, the silhouettes are pretty much identical. Bird legs, bullet-shaped main body, missile pods on the shoulders, no arms. That's a CAT for ya. The fact that the MWO one had someone who sat down and worked on the thing from an industrial designer's perspective makes the MWO one arguably better, as the design now makes much more sense.

You said "these designs have literally nothing in common". As these pictures show, they actually do. It's almost like saying that the retail Typhon and the ragingloli Typhon "have literally nothing in common".
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Hades on June 30, 2013, 04:58:07 am
You said "these designs have literally nothing in common". As these pictures show, they actually do. It's almost like saying that the retail Typhon and the ragingloli Typhon "have literally nothing in common".
I'd not be surprised if he said it didn't because it was uvmapped instead of tiled. I can't comprehend why, but Dragon has some sort of insane dislike of modernization.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on June 30, 2013, 12:10:42 pm
This is a Thunderbolt:  ;)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:3025_thunderbolt.jpg

But because FASA had some troubles with getting the Licenses this design can't be used anymore.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Hobbie on June 30, 2013, 04:59:45 pm
So if they're including a Thunderbolt, when do we get the Warhammer?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on June 30, 2013, 05:54:42 pm
So if they're including a Thunderbolt, when do we get the Warhammer?
or the Marauder. Cant have a Madcat without both a marauder and a catapult :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 30, 2013, 05:59:55 pm
But because FASA had some troubles with getting the Licenses this design can't be used anymore.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen

Not strictly true. The Dougram and Crusher Joe designs are actually free to use now, while the Macross ones remain verboten because Harmony Gold is literally copyright Hitler.

The ones in the Phoenix pack that have been revealed to us? They're all Dougram or Crusher Joe designs. This is not a coincidence, I'm guessing.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on July 02, 2013, 06:55:36 pm
You said "these designs have literally nothing in common". As these pictures show, they actually do. It's almost like saying that the retail Typhon and the ragingloli Typhon "have literally nothing in common".
I'd not be surprised if he said it didn't because it was uvmapped instead of tiled. I can't comprehend why, but Dragon has some sort of insane dislike of modernization.
Well, OK, I admit I was mistaken here. I was mostly used to MW4 interpretation for the CAT (which I still simply like better), which looks very different. I actually preferred the almost comically oversized missile pods to the small ones. Gave it a clumsy, overspecialized look, which is exactly how a CAT handles. Besides, it's not like it all matters, I got bored with MWO by now. I might return to it once there's something more interesting than two game modes and a handful of IS mechs. And I really dislike "grinding" for money, it just gets boring to do the same thing a thousand times over to get anything decent (not that there's anything else to do, even once you buy and outfit your own mech...).

Also, it's not modernization I dislike, it's that back in the day, I got most of my ships by reskinning existing ones, and I lacked the skill to edit UV maps. I don't like when an "update" starts limiting my customization options and makes changing things harder.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Hobbie on July 02, 2013, 07:25:40 pm
I got back into MWO the other day after checking out this thread and seeing what was going on. I stopped playing around the time the Cataphract came out because I got bored.

So I've come back and the whole game now feels significantly tighter. Plus the addition of the Trebuchet and the Highlander since has made me quite happy (Anyone who's read the Battletech LP knows about my fanboy tendencies for the Trenchbucket).

So I got in a couple matches. First one was River City Night. I hate the River City map and I think it should go away so naturally I did poorly in my 2xAC/10 Cataphract and got pummelled. Next map, that new canyon one, with my Dual Large Laser Commando. THIS is better. Plenty of harrassing and ripping into big ol' Atlas backsides. Had a lot of fun.

So yeah, the game is improving after being a snooze-fest. Finally.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on July 02, 2013, 09:37:44 pm
But it's still nothing that they promised it would be.
And I fear its going to end before they get anywhere near that promised state because I think a lot of people have actually already stopped playing.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on July 03, 2013, 04:59:14 pm
I started MWO recently because a Buddy of mine asked me to join him.

I'm a little bit disappointed by the game, especially by the Hardpoint System.
Replacing a 0,5 ton ( 1 critical slot ) Machine Gun with a 15 ton (10 critical slots) Gauss rifle ? Because they are both "Ballistic" ? that makes totally sense... no, not really.
Or replacing a 1 ton medium laser with a 7 ton PPC because they are both "Energy" ?
But replacing a PPC (7 tons, 3 critical slots) with an AC5 (8 tons, 4 critical slots) it's impossible because... Why the hell ?

That's not only without any sense, it promotes a certain kind of Mechbuilding.
The Thunderbolt has normally 3 medium lasers in the left torso, but in MWO the typical Thunderbolt will carry 3 PPCs or Large Lasers...

The game is also lacking some kind of basic coordination between the players.
While there is an interface for lance and company commander nobody seems to use it, not even I, because it#s really stupid to handle.
To set Waypoints for your lance you have to enter the 2D Map, and during that time your Mech doesn't move. I'm even not quite sure if your Lancemates get a acoustic message then you give out orders.

Battlefield 2142 did it much better seven years ago. Just aiming your crosshair at the HUD Icon of the controlpoint and pressing T + leftmouse sets an attack or defend order.
And each Squadmate was notified with "Attack Here" or "Defend Here" that you have set a new order.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on July 03, 2013, 07:18:19 pm
MW4 had something of a similar hardpoint system, with certain hardpoints being specifically missile, ballistic or energy, some being "direct fire" (ballistic or energy), some being "ammo consuming (missile or ballistic) and some "heat generating" (missile or energy), with some mechs (usually Clan) having "omni" hardpoints where you could stick anything you wanted. It makes sense that some mounts can only handle certain weapons. It handled it much better though, with each hardpoint having a size limit. So, you could stick a Small Laser in place of a PPC, but not the other way around, unless the 'mech had an odd design that mounted a Small Laser in a PPC-capable mount.
MWO system is somewhat of a hybrid between the MW2 (fairly similar to tabletop) and MW4 system, but it just ended up awkward, allowing such oddities as Gauss Rifles firing out of MG ports and Small Lasers swapped out for PPCs, and that's before Clans showed up.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on July 03, 2013, 07:55:48 pm
Technically speaking, MW4 didn't have anything but ballistic/energy/missile and omni hardpoints before MekTek got ahold of it.  All that stuff is "new" and totally did not ship with the retail game or any of the patches from the original producer.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on July 03, 2013, 11:26:41 pm
Technically speaking, MW4 didn't have anything but ballistic/energy/missile and omni hardpoints before MekTek got ahold of it.  All that stuff is "new" and totally did not ship with the retail game or any of the patches from the original producer.
Except "all that stuff" in this case is just "direct-fire", "ammo-consuming", and "heat-generating"; not really the most major of changes MekTek made. :P
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on July 04, 2013, 04:25:27 am
Still handled better than MWO (also, I'm pretty sure retail, or at least original Mercs did have omni hardpoints).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 04, 2013, 04:46:29 am
Still handled better than MWO (also, I'm pretty sure retail, or at least original Mercs did have omni hardpoints).

No, it's really not. It's just different. The objectives, and the outcomes, are pretty much the same.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on July 04, 2013, 06:00:03 am
Well, the outcomes are a lot different - you can't shove a PPC into a Small Laser slot, nor a Heavy Gauss into an MG port. You can in Online. And objectives? What are you talking about?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: The E on July 04, 2013, 06:08:24 am
NGTM-1R is referring to the intent the designers had when they set up the systems like this.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 04, 2013, 06:38:51 am
Well, the outcomes are a lot different - you can't shove a PPC into a Small Laser slot, nor a Heavy Gauss into an MG port. You can in Online. And objectives? What are you talking about?

The idea behind any slot system is to stop me creating the four-CERPPC or four-CERLL or 6/8 MPL or 3/4 Gausszilla boat of doom and force me to adopt some kind of weapons variety.

The reality is this doesn't typically work as well as was intended, and you end up with a few boat-y designs dominating the game. In early MWO we had Gausscats and Streakcats. In MW4 Mercs we had The Terrible Hauptmann rolling with 3 CERPPC and a CGauss or Mad Cats with paired CERPPC and paired RAC2/RAC5 setups.

The MWO metagame has shifted without a clutch a few times as the ideal boaty weapon changed, but it's actually achieved a state of consistent variety by now, something I don't think Mektek actually managed.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on July 04, 2013, 10:20:03 am
To be fair, I've yet to see a BT game where "stack as many CERPPCs on it as you can" strategy wouldn't be not only viable, but rather good indeed. And it's like that on the tabletop, too, if Scotty's LP is of any indication. :) Gauss Rifles are pretty much the same, but they're weighty and don't have much ammo. It's also rather difficult to avoid "boats of doom" when the source material features more than a few examples of such (Supernova, for example, boasts 6 CERLLs in it's stock config, and even the "Gausszilla" is a perfectly valid Anihilator). I think that MW4 system makes more sense from technical standpoint. Afterall, a hardpoint that can take an MG could possibly fit an UAC/5, but a Gauss... less so.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: IronBeer on July 04, 2013, 11:09:37 am
It's also rather difficult to avoid "boats of doom" when the source material features more than a few examples of such (Supernova, for example, boasts 6 CERLLs in it's stock config, and even the "Gausszilla" is a perfectly valid Anihilator).
Hellstar (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hellstar). Boats, meet your god.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on July 04, 2013, 11:27:47 am
Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. Awesome is another stock PPC boat, especially the 9Q version with 4 PPCs (which you can swap for the Clan version if you have to access to it). Assault mechs lend themselves to this, but other weights also have examples (eg. Nova with 12 Medium Lasers).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: The E on July 04, 2013, 11:35:11 am
Quote
To be fair, I've yet to see a BT game where "stack as many CERPPCs on it as you can" strategy wouldn't be not only viable, but rather good indeed. And it's like that on the tabletop, too, if Scotty's LP is of any indication.

ahhhahahaha no

The Supernova generates 75 heat when jumping and alpha-striking, of which it can dissipate a grand total of 52, meaning that in a single strike, you go to 23 heat overflow, blowing past 3 shutdown overrides ( against 4, 6, and 8), incurring a movement penalty that will make the mech immobile even if it doesn't shut down, and granting a +3 modifier to attack roll target numbers in the next turn.

Energy boats all suffer from this issue (Unless you're explicitly building them not too, as in the case of the Hellstar, whose actual firepower is somewhat lackluster for a 95 ton assault mech).

Missile and Ballistic boats, while generally less prone to heat issues, are nevertheless at risk to stray critical hits killing ammo bins (One memorable match I took part in once was utterly dominated by someone in a Piranha (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha) running around critting things).

In the games, these designs work much better, because the games never seem to model the full heat model that the tabletop uses. In MW4, targeting penalties are represented by flickering the HUD a bit (Which is more an annoyance than anything), while ammo explosions simply do not happen.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on July 04, 2013, 01:07:08 pm
You might notice that in my LP, that boating only works because I'm essentially boating an entire lance, not one 'Mech.  If the bot were any less criminially stupid, the first thing it would do is break out to stand-off range and pepper me with LRMs and AC/2s because I am completely ineffectual beyond PPC range, and way too slow to get in range against smaller targets.

In short, my LP boats because the AI is stupid, not because it works in the tabletop against real people.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on July 04, 2013, 01:47:10 pm
Yeah, I noticed we have no long range missile support at all. However, nowhere did I say that a PPC boat is an ultimate build like in MC1. It works pretty well, though, and I guess that if those were Clan ERs, they would be even more deadly.
The Supernova generates 75 heat when jumping and alpha-striking, of which it can dissipate a grand total of 52, meaning that in a single strike, you go to 23 heat overflow, blowing past 3 shutdown overrides ( against 4, 6, and 8), incurring a movement penalty that will make the mech immobile even if it doesn't shut down, and granting a +3 modifier to attack roll target numbers in the next turn.
Noone says you have to Alpha with it, firing, say, 4 CERLLs is still pretty devastating. Though I agree, that kind of defeats the point of mounting 6 CERLLs in first place. I wasn't saying it's a super-mech (though in MW4, if you fit it with 14 CERSPLs, it can be quite fun, if not the most effective), but merely pointing out the existence of stock boat designs in BT. Supernova overheats like crazy in MW4, too (at least the stock config). Oh, and as for ammo explosions, that's what CASE is for. If you're gonna make a missile boat, it's generally a good investment.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Beskargam on July 04, 2013, 01:50:37 pm
In MW4, targeting penalties are represented by flickering the HUD a bit (Which is more an annoyance than anything), while ammo explosions simply do not happen.

I seem to recall there being ammo 'splosions in MW2: mercenaries, though I could be mistaken. It has been awhile since I played it
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on July 04, 2013, 01:59:50 pm
Retail MW2 had ammo explosions, but not from overheating, only from weapon fire. Haven't gotten to Mercs yet. Though TBH, MW2 isn't exactly a good example, it's building system was... far from perfect. I remember building a Hellbringer (Loki) with 4 CERPPCs and vestigal (no armor) arms, plus fairly decent engine and heatsinks. There's no way that would work in any other game. Even in MC1, they'd not fit onto Hellbringer (though something similar worked on a Nova Cat).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: The E on July 04, 2013, 02:08:46 pm
Noone says you have to Alpha with it, firing, say, 4 CERLLs is still pretty devastating. Though I agree, that kind of defeats the point of mounting 6 CERLLs in first place. I wasn't saying it's a super-mech (though in MW4, if you fit it with 14 CERSPLs, it can be quite fun, if not the most effective), but merely pointing out the existence of stock boat designs in BT. Supernova overheats like crazy in MW4, too (at least the stock config). Oh, and as for ammo explosions, that's what CASE is for. If you're gonna make a missile boat, it's generally a good investment.

Even with CASE, an ammo explosion is usually equivalent to a mission kill, as you'll be losing the location and any attached to it (going outward). If you have the misfortune of mounting an XL engine and one of your side torsos blows up, it will even mean 2 (Clan) or 3 (IS) engine crits, meaning you'll be severely impaired.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on July 04, 2013, 02:15:06 pm
Three engine crits kills 'Mechs, so that IS machine is going down on a CASEd ammo hit.

On the other hand, this nifty thing called CASE II is getting spread around in the 3100s, which makes ammo explosions only do a single point of internal structure damage.  It's probably the best thing ever, and one of the first absolutely better pieces of equipment to come out of the game in a long time.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on July 04, 2013, 04:57:15 pm
Even with CASE, an ammo explosion is usually equivalent to a mission kill, as you'll be losing the location and any attached to it (going outward). If you have the misfortune of mounting an XL engine and one of your side torsos blows up, it will even mean 2 (Clan) or 3 (IS) engine crits, meaning you'll be severely impaired.
That depends on how the 'boat in question is set up. Some designs can stick ammo in the arms, and many dedicated missile mechs have weapons split across the sides, so if you've got CASE, you only lose half your firepower with an ammo explosion. By no means a small loss, but wouldn't render the 'mech completely nonfunctional. Of course, that won't help you if you happen to have an IS XL engine, but since missile boats are usually LRM launchers (besides the Jenner IIC, I haven't heard of SRM boats being terribly popular), you could probably afford using a standard one. And of course, once you get to 3100s, CASE II is a must, that pretty much takes care of ammo explosion problems.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on July 04, 2013, 05:04:04 pm
Retail MW2 had ammo explosions, but not from overheating, only from weapon fire.

Nope, there were ammo explosions from OH'ing in Mech2. (The example's at 2:56.) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z15S7KuzCOg&list=SP617EB3C54B1795E5&index=6)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on July 04, 2013, 05:19:45 pm
I guess I never managed to overheat an ammo-using 'mech enough to actually pop the ammo (I did redline it a few times. Must've been lucky). I usually went in with a PPC boat, occasionally backed by missiles.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: -Joshua- on July 05, 2013, 04:41:03 am
Retail MW2 had ammo explosions, but not from overheating, only from weapon fire.

It did actually have explosions from overheating. It just took a very long while.
As in very very long.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Patriot on July 05, 2013, 06:28:20 am
Just be glad Gauss Rifles don't explode when destroyed, as they should be. Oh and TACs, be glad those aren't in either :P
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on July 05, 2013, 07:24:36 am
MWO Gauss Rifles do explode when destroyed.  But since it's just 20 damage, it's not particularly noticeable.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Patriot on July 05, 2013, 08:55:43 am
ah, that explains a lot :(
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on July 06, 2013, 04:51:08 pm
Using a Joystick in the left hand for MWO. Anyone give it a try ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-TbKe30KtCc

I get my old Saitek ST290 back from the loft to try it out, but I only take some turns in Testing Grounds, not real battle.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on July 06, 2013, 05:54:10 pm
I'm using my throttle and pedals for movement, and the stick for aiming. Works in MW2 and MW4, works here too.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on August 18, 2013, 02:30:19 am
Well, some news from the front, unless you already know.

1. They released the Kintaro, but it's suffering from a notorious CT hitbox issue (http://mwomercs.com/news/2013/08/721-kintaro-ct-to-lose-damage-magnetism), to be addressed September. Don't know on the Flea or the Orion.

2. They adjusted the heat scale and categorized by weapons (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/127904-heat-scale-the-maths/) (I honestly lost all respect for the Large Pulse Laser, given the circumstances, it's just plain unworkable now.)

3. For some players with crap system specs, the FPS toilet plague is mostly over, starting with the 12v12 patch.

4. Terra Therma. Oh, and yes, the lava burns, but only if you sit still.

Irrelevantly, I sold my Catapults and started with the JagerMechs. (Well, after two weeks of grinding Blackjacks... yeah.)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on August 18, 2013, 04:49:17 am
Wait, I can probably play this game now!

Anybody got recommendations/advice/whatever for a rookie?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BloodEagle on August 18, 2013, 07:53:05 am
Well, some news from the front, unless you already know.

1. They released the Kintaro, but it's suffering from a notorious CT hitbox issue (http://mwomercs.com/news/2013/08/721-kintaro-ct-to-lose-damage-magnetism), to be addressed September. Don't know on the Flea or the Orion.

2. They adjusted the heat scale and categorized by weapons (http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/127904-heat-scale-the-maths/) (I honestly lost all respect for the Large Pulse Laser, given the circumstances, it's just plain unworkable now.)

3. For some players with crap system specs, the FPS toilet plague is mostly over, starting with the 12v12 patch.

4. Terra Therma. Oh, and yes, the lava burns, but only if you sit still.

Irrelevantly, I sold my Catapults and started with the JagerMechs. (Well, after two weeks of grinding Blackjacks... yeah.)

So, the same news as the past N-hundred patches?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on August 18, 2013, 08:02:31 am
This game has failed so hard bloody hell what a disappointment.

I still have a whole bunch of premium time waiting to be activated. But then I read that they actually decreased cbill gain, so now seems like an even worse time to activate it.
It's also still the same bloody game as it was since launch. Just a bit more polished with more mechs and 12v12. But I'm really not interested in grinding death match after death match with the only goal to have a new mech... which I will then play more deathmatch with.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BloodEagle on August 18, 2013, 12:27:09 pm
The thing that bugs me?  People (some of them) think the constant balance patches count as some sort of progress.

I had to explain to quite a number of people how, unless the netcode was being seriously (which I doubt) worked on, there was very little actual effort being put into the game.

Hell, the fact that they're reintroducing the hit box issue tells me that they've had that model ready for release for quite some time. They're probably just sitting on a stack of them, releasing them every now and then to keep their core user-base paying for premium time.

Although one good thing did come out of this: it cemented in me the idea that open game development does not work and is not to be trusted.

[/rant]
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on August 18, 2013, 12:46:24 pm
I'm glad they recently fixed some of their framerate issues, but as far as game content is going, yeah, it's really disappointing.  They've mentioned that they are working on including scripted events and AI in the future, which probably means new game modes, but knowing how bloody slow their software department tends to work I expect at least another 2 years before that happens.  2 years of them not actually bothering to step outside their admin god powers and get a sense for how the game plays for people who don't have the ability to manipulate the account databases at will.

Their art department is godly, however, and I would not be surprised in the least if they have a massive collection of 'Mechs ready to go at launch. 

Wait, I can probably play this game now!

Anybody got recommendations/advice/whatever for a rookie?

Yes.  First 25 matches you get the 'Cadet Bonus,' aka 7.5 million C-Bills to buy your first Mech with.  Save it until you know which weight class suits your play style best.  My knowledge is very limited on mediums and lights because I suck at them.
Things to know about assorted Heavies and Assaults:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on August 18, 2013, 01:03:11 pm
*stuff*

Thank you very much, sir :)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 18, 2013, 01:47:11 pm
I'm considering saving up for the Highlander as my next 'Mech after my current Cataphract-4X.  90 tons is a lot of weight to mount guns and armor with more speed than the lumbering Atlas.  Probably going to buy the Highlander-733 and convert it to a Gauss sniper with medium lasers and Streaks and normal SRM's for when things get close.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on August 18, 2013, 02:20:01 pm
Before I gave up on MWO, I was planning to get a HGN-732 and boat PPCs. I might get back to it once there's actually something to do.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dark Hunter on August 18, 2013, 05:57:57 pm
PPC's aren't as useful as they once were. It seems to me like the last patch lowered the heat sink efficiency. But that may just be me. I have two of 'em loaded on a Catapult K-2 and those kick major ass if you're smart about heat. (Just have a cool-running backup weapon on hand for when the heat inevitably does get too much).

Currently messing around with my SDR-5D, tweaking it to get maximum performance. It is still a blast to use... when you're in a light 'Mech, it feels like your job is basically to troll the enemy team as much as possible, which is pretty fun. Slapped a TAG laser on so I could spot for the LRM Boats, this can seriously turn the tide of battle.

Also considering saving up for some Stalker variants as my Misery is kind of my primary 'Mech at this point, and I'd like some of those Elite tweaks on the pilot tree.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on August 18, 2013, 11:02:51 pm
I'm glad they recently fixed some of their framerate issues, but as far as game content is going, yeah, it's really disappointing.  They've mentioned that they are working on including scripted events and AI in the future, which probably means new game modes, but knowing how bloody slow their software department tends to work I expect at least another 2 years before that happens.  2 years of them not actually bothering to step outside their admin god powers and get a sense for how the game plays for people who don't have the ability to manipulate the account databases at will.

Their art department is godly, however, and I would not be surprised in the least if they have a massive collection of 'Mechs ready to go at launch. 

Wait, I can probably play this game now!

Anybody got recommendations/advice/whatever for a rookie?

Yes.  First 25 matches you get the 'Cadet Bonus,' aka 7.5 million C-Bills to buy your first Mech with.  Save it until you know which weight class suits your play style best.  My knowledge is very limited on mediums and lights because I suck at them.

I wish one of us could go to the San Francisco Launch Event and express our disappointment.

As far as Mediums go:

- Centurion: It's a nice Mech, particularly noticeable for being referred as a "FrankenMech" (meaning if you're not XLed, you can still operate well with a side torso popped). The A is versatile (good at harassment/light hunting, most used weapons are 3xSRM-4 or 6, 2 MLs, and an AC), the AL can carry punch-packing energy weapons, and the D is a high-speed Mech (having an engine cap of 390).

- Blackjack: The 1X is an efficient laser boat that has slightly more firepower than the Jenner-F, the 1 and 1-DC are decent for ballistic/PPC sniping, and the 3 has Double Heat Sinks right out of the box. These are more like mini-JagerMechs.

- Hunchback: Treat it like you would use it for ambushes (this is one of the definitive urban fighters, used right), and unless you're using the 4-SP, they will always aim for your Right Torso (as that is where the majority of weapons is housed, the SP is symmetrical).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 19, 2013, 12:19:40 am
I love my Commando for its good days. But it doesn't have them often.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on August 19, 2013, 01:00:12 am
"FrankenMech" does not mean that.  FrankenMech means that the 'Mech has been cobbled together with non-standard or non-fitting parts so that it's not actually a production 'Mech at all, and its own one-off custom ride in a way that even a custom variant of a 'Mech is not.  It's what happens when you take that Highlander's right arm, and that Catapult's left torso assembly and put it on an Atlas center torso.

The word you're looking for is "Zombie", and refers to 'Mechs that mount neither XL Engines nor ammunition or gauss weapons that could conceivably explode.  The only ways to take down Zombies are by definition to decapitate the 'Mech, or to completely destroy the center torso.  There is literally no other way to cease its function.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dark Hunter on August 19, 2013, 01:03:04 am
The word you're looking for is "Zombie", and refers to 'Mechs that mount neither XL Engines nor ammunition or gauss weapons that could conceivably explode.  The only ways to take down Zombies are by definition to decapitate the 'Mech, or to completely destroy the center torso.  There is literally no other way to cease its function.

Legging?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on August 19, 2013, 01:27:52 am
In the tabletop, legging does not destroy 'Mechs.  Severely impedes their movement, yes, but if you've been reading my Let's Play, you'd know that losing a leg is sometimes only a minor inconvenience. :P

Honestly, by the time you've lost one leg, unless your pilots are god-tier already, losing a second leg is as inconsequential as it comes, and honestly the second leg might as well be additional armor.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on August 22, 2013, 01:26:08 pm
Wait, I can probably play this game now!

Anybody got recommendations/advice/whatever for a rookie?
Try to find a Merc Unit to join - those are Groups of Players with own Teamspeak Server.
There are many recruitment threads in the official MWO forums.
MWO is much more fun if you can play with friends and teamspeak.

The alternative to Teamspeak is the C3 Voice Chat. The group function of MWO that allows you to play with friends in a group supports this application, but you have to download it separately.

Gameplay Tips:
Play fast Mechs first, but stay next to other, bigger Mechs.
Acting as Backup, and fight other light Mechs that try to hit and run.

If you get enough C-Bills, buy a Jenner or Raven.
Buying a XL Engine is also a good Idea, because you can remove the Engine and use them in an other Mech.
But be aware that a XL Engine is also destroyed if a Side Torso is destroyed, so use it only for fast Mechs.

Upgrading Mechs:
All Mechs are limited by the weight they have for weapons.
You can get more free space by upgrading:
A XL-Engine gives you the most free space, but makes the Mech more vulnerable
Double Heat sinks are expensive, but can save a lot of space otherwise used for additional Heat Sinks
Endo Steel give you between 1 to 5 additional tons
Ferror Fibrous is a waste of critical Slots, and only to consider if your Mech has a lot of free slots after upgrading to Endo Steel, Double Heat Sink and XL-Engine.

Targetting:
Always target your enemy with R, and aim for weak spots.
If the enemy Mech isn't damage, aim for the Arms, because that's the Zone with the thinnest armour.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 22, 2013, 03:47:29 pm
Wait, I can probably play this game now!

Anybody got recommendations/advice/whatever for a rookie?

Don't.

PGI published an "apology" recently that is actually their extended justification for why they have lied to us, feel justified in doing so, and will continue to lie.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BloodEagle on August 22, 2013, 05:43:42 pm
http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/132637-3rd-person-an-update-and-apology/page__pid__2678285#entry2678285

For posterity:

Quote from: Guess
Today I wanted to post an updated explanation on the recent patch which added the third person view into MechWarrior Online. Although we have long known this was a contentious issue and adding it to MWO was going to meet resistance, there was also a major failure in community management and communication. I will endeavor to explain how we got to this point. A couple of weeks ago I created a command chair post about “Why Third person” which explains the process in which we decided that adding a third person perspective was essential for teaching new players how to play MWO. During that time period some news leaked into the MWO community from a podcast on our intentions of releasing a third person camera and the reaction was very negative. Here is where we made a critical error with the community and it wasn’t because we don’t care about the community but quite the opposite, you could even say we cared too much. Instead of weighing the impact of the feature in every way we simply reacted very quickly and told the community that you will not have to play against players in third person perspective. Now this was many months ago and we weren’t even close to working on third person yet as it needed to find its way into our feature backlog. Now we fast forward many months and a design for third person is created. The mandate applied to the designer was something along the lines of “create a third person mode that mainly allows new players to quickly learn the nuances of a Battlemech’s movements” and furthermore that “the more experienced the pilot becomes the more time he will want/need to spend in First Person”. In order to accomplish this the HUD was reduced with the removal of the mini-map and Lance mate information and the camera was brought in tight with no ability to pan around your mech, finally there was a floating drone behind your mech to give explanation for the view point but would also act to give your position away. Once this design started to come into focus both on paper and through early test sessions I think the overwhelming feeling in the office was very closely along the lines of “Wow were going to split the community into two different buckets for this?”. The feeling was that the original design goals had not been achieved 100% but very close to it and it was feeling like a non-issue from a competitive perspective. I guess it really felt like we shouldn’t be splitting the matchmaking pools especially in public drops until we at least had more real world data. This is where the next big communication failure happened. It was the intention at this point to communicate all of these findings to the community and ask for some leeway while we released third person into the general population without segregation so that we could collect real world metrics on everything from how many people were using it to determining if there really were any unacceptable tactical advantages. This communication just never happened and I can blame staggered vacation time for various executives to other management types but regardless it was a failure. In the end Bryan put up a brief post after the feature went live which may have seemed like our attempt to sneak it in after the fact but it only came across that way because we missed the window we intended to use.

So here we are and all I can do at this point is reiterate that we truly feel we made the best decision for MWO and its future but this meant we needed to go back on previous statement and then we communicated it poorly to boot. To make it perfectly clear, there was never any meeting or particular moment at PGI where we decided that we would never provide the separate Queue’s for “Hardcore” (the mode where third person is not allowed). We simply decided that we felt it was likely not necessary and probably detrimental to split the community and with that in mind not worth delaying or holding out of the product when we could possibly see great benefit from the feature as we approach and cross over into official launch. But again it’s not impossible that we will provide the segregation. But this is where I need to be real careful to not make the same mistakes again with some kind of promise. Perhaps the community would not care if there was no segregation in Public matches if for instance Community Warfare provided the segregation. Final answers or decisions just can’t and shouldn’t be provided yet.

Since the patch went live we have played hundreds of matches, Ghost spectated hundreds more and have yet to see evidence of third person being used in any significant way. However were still willing to say that at the moment we don’t have enough data and were still working off our assumptions. I really want to remove the assumptions from the process and hopefully we can work together to uncover the full truth of the features impact. I’m positive we will be more than willing to make any number of small tweaks and adjustments to third person as we go along. In the end I think the community has shown amazing acceptance of our proposed direction of MWO if they feel it would be best for the future of MechWarrior Online and growing this great brand. So I assume the community is much more upset about the broken promise then how they have seen people using third person in matches.

In Summary we apologize for the manner in which communication failed over the release of this major feature and in closing, it is still possible that a separate Queue will be created but the timing just isn’t right for that currently as we just need more time to gather conclusive facts about its impact in the live game sessions.
Thanks for reading.

Russ "What a Complete Asshat" Bullock
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on August 23, 2013, 12:18:57 pm
Yeah, "bad timing". Don't make promises you don't intend to keep.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on August 23, 2013, 07:56:56 pm
This wasn't the Community Warfare I was expecting.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 23, 2013, 10:06:13 pm
http://loadeddicecast.blogspot.de/2013/08/what-happened-to-mechwarrior-online.html
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 23, 2013, 10:07:21 pm
Just...

God damn it. This game, man, this game was good, it was fun, it was a MechWarrior game. You could feel it the first time you dropped.

And it's all gone to **** on me.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on August 23, 2013, 10:12:06 pm
http://loadeddicecast.blogspot.de/2013/08/what-happened-to-mechwarrior-online.html

Yep saw it on the MWO forums,
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y3iCzEW1_IE/URVsgLRfY2I/AAAAAAAAABs/bGdRoYPT3zk/s320/Boy-that-escalated-quickly_zps178aa246.jpg)

Indeed.

It's sad I had high hopes for the game as well.  Loved my HBKs.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: docfu on August 23, 2013, 11:29:17 pm
Wow, I was all set to install the game when I read this post. Sounds like the kickstarter was seriously abused just to milk the fan base for money...

Can you actually enjoy the game without having to give them your credit card number?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on August 23, 2013, 11:32:10 pm
Yes.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on August 23, 2013, 11:44:09 pm
lol, the settings default to starting the match in 3rd person view now, until you change the setting.
It's pretty, but quite useless, and I don't imagine anybody actually using it.

That said, it's still generally the same game it was when it hit open beta, just with more (mostly inconsequential) stuff, and a lot of balance tweakage. As long as you like deathmatch or conquest, it hasn't changed much. Which I guess is part of the problem.

Can you actually enjoy the game without having to give them your credit card number?

Also yes. I only bought some ingame gold to buy another mech bay and a hula girl. The rest is mostly untouched. Premium time seems like a waste unless you're willing to really invest in it, a poor proposition at this point.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on August 24, 2013, 12:54:35 am
I was holding on to hope since closed beta ended, but I'm done.  This game sucks and PGI isn't a competent enough studio to fix it.  They'd need to be aware of the problems to fix them, but they've obviously convinced themselves they're doing a great job.

I'm not talking about balance.  The weapon and mech balance is better than it's ever been.  I'm talking about the core gameplay.  10 minute deathmatches on the same maps, over and over again.  It gets boring fast because there's no depth to it.  What's Community Warfare supposed to do to change this?  Our results will influence lines on a strategic map.  Ooh.  This still doesn't make the core gameplay any better.  How can we believe our 12v12, 10 minute deathmatches over unremarkable coastlines and empty deserts are conquering worlds?  Neither Community Warfare nor the Clans will resolve this.

If this game had gone in the same direction as MW: Living Legends (a vastly superior game); long (~45min) games on big, varied maps with combined arms and 60+ players, something closer to Battlefield, it could have been absolutely incredible.  Instead, we've got World of Tanks with mechs and more customisation.  I'd blame it on being Free to Play, but then again, Planetside 2 manages (it's got its own problems, but still).  Even War Thunder feels bigger, despite having a similar amount of players in a team.

I've spent 60$ on worse things, so I'm not too torn up about having bought a Founder's package.  What really, really annoys me is it's a waste of those fantastic mech redesigns, and that we'll probably have to wait another 10 years for the MechWarrior name to recover from MWO's failure.

Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: docfu on August 24, 2013, 02:12:13 am
Thanks for that last post. This reminds me a bit of League of Legends. I checked it out last year and was surprised to play a game like that. It was the first real Free2Play game I ever checked out.

For a while it was fun but then you start to wonder why the game has almost 100 characters and a few hundred skins...but only 3 maps. The developers just don't care to develop the rest of the game.

Your last line really says it all though. Mechwarrior games seem to come around every 10 years...and Mechwarrior 3 was the only one that didn't fall short. I wonder if Hawken is any better than MWO...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Patriot on August 24, 2013, 03:32:16 am
If PGI was smart, they'd introduce gameplay similar to Planetside 2, a persistent map with people just piling in on each other to make sure they hold their bases/factories/whatever.

That's what i hoped to see in MWO, but didn't. Finally uninstalled just now, after having it gathering dust on my hard drive for so long.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on August 24, 2013, 04:13:29 am
Um, for a moment I'll just take the last few posts, and mention that, if any of those things had been done, it would not be the same game, at all, and I would personally dislike it.

Having long battles means instituting some kind of system for respawns, which I, personally, emphatically do not want in my BattleTech.  It was bad enough in MechAssault, which was at least arcade-y enough to warrant it.  Without respawns, you're locking players out of their 'Mechs for half an hour at a time, which is also bad.  Without locking players out of their 'Mechs while it's in game, you're hugely incentivizing suicidal charges at the beginning of a game to farm experience and cash.

Re: gameplay, I'd mention World of Tanks, which has survived (and even thrived) with the same three game modes for at least a couple years now (I've been playing for two and a half almost), and before that it had just one: deathmatch with a base.

Then again, that's kind of the problem.  For World of Tanks, which is absolutely designed to be grindy and reward players with better vehicles based on a tier system, MechWarrior Online doesn't.  Any 'Mech is available the instant you can muster the cash for it.

MWO tried to be something that worked in one setting, and utterly failed in converting it to a different setting, for reasons which are intrinsic to the setting, and fail to see why that's a problem.

If, for example, there were some objectives that were randomly generated upon mission start, and not necessarily the same for both teams, it could be interesting.  There could actually be a reason for 'Mechs to shoot at each other all day long.  But at present, there isn't, and that's frustrating.  I would probably play the **** out of it if the objective was more in depth than "Shoot 'Mechs, stand in base".  I got bored of the same kinds of fights in the tabletop almost as quickly.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on August 24, 2013, 12:30:17 pm
You don't need classic respawns.  Just do it the way the hypothetical dropship mode was supposed to do it: you respawn as long as you have mechs to respawn with.  Games last longer, people get to play with all the mechs they've got, and it provides incentive for people to buy more mechbay slots rather than constantly selling off their mechs.  Give 3 or 4 slots for free, have a couple paid for with CB, and more bought with MC.

War Thunder does it this way and it works very well.

Also, i wasn't thinking MechAssault.  I was thinking about MW Living Legends, which is much better than MWO is despite being a mod for Crysis 1.  Sure, it looks less pretty and mech animations look awkward as ****, but the gameplay's immensely superior.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on August 24, 2013, 01:59:29 pm
http://loadeddicecast.blogspot.de/2013/08/what-happened-to-mechwarrior-online.html
All of this is true. So very true.
Thanks for that last post. This reminds me a bit of League of Legends. I checked it out last year and was surprised to play a game like that. It was the first real Free2Play game I ever checked out.

For a while it was fun but then you start to wonder why the game has almost 100 characters and a few hundred skins...but only 3 maps. The developers just don't care to develop the rest of the game.
I dont think you understand exactly what you are saying. Riot is imho an amazing company that does a lot of things extremely well (some blunders are of course made, and the way they treat their american forum user base has not been equal to those of others but hey). They have constantly been developing the game in all sorts of ways. Everyone has just sorta come to accept that a MOBA only truly needs one single map. (Dominion and ARAM aren't 'serious' maps)

None of this really applies to the devs of MWO. They just have an endless strings of **** ups.
I mean, you still clip through trees as if they exist on a different plane of being. But getting even basic things like that done is seemingly beyond them. Instead they want you to buy more reskinned mechs. On sale now!

I should have gone with my refund instead of getting talked out of it  :sigh:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on August 24, 2013, 05:54:19 pm
Can you actually enjoy the game without having to give them your credit card number?
You don't have to pay to have fun playing MWO.

Some friends to join a server as group is more important than paying money.
The point to spend money is reached then you want to level up more than two Mechs - then you need additional Mechbays.
Except that, real money (Mechwarrior Credits) is more or less a way to speed up the earning of ingame money  (C-Bills).
As member of the winning team you will get around 100 000 C-Bills, a light Mech cost up to 3 000 000 C-bills, so after 30 Wins you can buy a new Mech.
Spending real money on Premium Time will increase the amount of C-Bills earned by 50%.
Instead of waiting for 30 wins, you can buy Mechs directly for MCs.

Personally I would spend real money only for Mechbays and to change the colour of my Mech, and only if I'm part of a Merc Unit with specific colours.
I would also spend money to show the Merc Units Crest on my Mech.

MWO is not pay for win, that's a big pro.

On the bad side some things are still annoying:
The tools for Teamwork and communication are terrible. You have to go to Battlegrid (2D Map) to set orders, and almost nobody will follow them.
Simply aiming at a Control Point or a place on the Map and setting an order (like in Battlefield 2 or Bf 2142) isn't possible.
There is a commander mode, but nobody is using it.
There are no points for following commander orders, and to give orders you have to go to Battlegird, becoming a sitting duck. 
There is no Ingame Voip to communicate with the other players of your side, and there is no quick chat like in Battlefield or Freespace.

The lack of coordination and communication is a server disadvantage if you play against other players that start in a premade group with 2 or more players.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 24, 2013, 05:55:28 pm
I should point out that the other big disadvantage is that the Throttle Decay and Arm Swing are actually in their least-helpful states by default and you are never told this.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: mobcdmoc3 on September 04, 2013, 03:16:25 pm
So. I came across this, and couldn't resist the urge to share. :nervous:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7tEzQFIBQQ
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scourge of Ages on September 04, 2013, 04:13:51 pm
So. I came across this, and couldn't resist the urge to share. :nervous:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7tEzQFIBQQ

Worth it for Bosch alone.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dark Hunter on September 04, 2013, 07:22:23 pm
Popular reaction to the latest patch is...

Not 100% negative?  :wtf:

That's surprising.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 04, 2013, 09:06:01 pm
Yeah, I know.  I'm shocked as hell.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: FireSpawn on September 13, 2013, 09:45:37 am
Was actually able to play a little on a friend's profile the other week, and didn't completely suck balls considering he's got the trial mechs and a commando with only one large laser and some srms.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on September 16, 2013, 08:38:50 am
Well, tomorrow comes their 'release.'  I'm preparing to be incredibly disappointed.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on September 16, 2013, 12:02:07 pm
No UI 2.0, no Community Warfare, no new gametype.  I'm puzzled about what exactly it is they're releasing.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: FireSpawn on September 16, 2013, 12:48:07 pm
No UI 2.0, no Community Warfare, no new gametype.  I'm puzzled about what exactly it is they're releasing.

This...

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/lego-botz/MWLL%20Dev/MechHats-2.jpg)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on September 16, 2013, 01:05:51 pm
Quote from: http://mwomercs.com/landingpad
EPIC PvP COMBAT

MechWarrior Online delivers a AAA shooter experience unlike anything you've ever experienced.
(http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sick/sick0021.gif)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on September 16, 2013, 01:24:10 pm
Exactly. Uninstalled it and not gonna touch it with a ten-foot pole ever again. At least, unless they overhaul the whole thing and make a non-PvP game mode (I hate PvP in the games like that).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 17, 2013, 06:28:33 am
Exactly. Uninstalled it and not gonna touch it with a ten-foot pole ever again. At least, unless they overhaul the whole thing and make a non-PvP game mode (I hate PvP in the games like that).

It must be nice living in the past.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on September 17, 2013, 12:56:14 pm
Aaaaand expectation confirmed.  Changed the trials, tweaked some mechanics, added a camo sale, posted all over the forums going 'Wooo lawnch!' like drunken idiots.

Seriously if they had something interesting to show or add for this I would have bought into the Phoenix program.  Now?  Hahahahahahah what.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on September 17, 2013, 02:27:17 pm
Exactly. Uninstalled it and not gonna touch it with a ten-foot pole ever again. At least, unless they overhaul the whole thing and make a non-PvP game mode (I hate PvP in the games like that).

It must be nice living in the past.
Yes, it is. You should try it someday. Games have long campaigns and epic stories, multiplayer is an afterthought and there are FMVs starring holywood actors. Star Trek in TV, Star Wars in the cinema. Sleek, powerful muscle cars, well dressed men and beautiful women. Past FTW. :)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on September 17, 2013, 03:18:06 pm
Can't we have both? :P

A well crafted single player is great but so is defeating a living thinking opponent.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on September 17, 2013, 05:00:44 pm
Aaaaand expectation confirmed.  Changed the trials, tweaked some mechanics, added a camo sale, posted all over the forums going 'Wooo lawnch!' like drunken idiots.

Seriously if they had something interesting to show or add for this I would have bought into the Phoenix program.  Now?  Hahahahahahah what.
I started the patching/launcher thing and all I saw were messages telling me to spend MC to buy hero mechs and reskins. When I played one game I was dropped in caustic valley, only now it was 12v12 instead of 8v8.
Sure seems like progress over the closed beta!
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 17, 2013, 05:14:19 pm
A well crafted single player is great but so is defeating a living thinking opponent.

Ironically a well-crafted single player tends to be more difficult to defeat than the majority of living opponents. Why simulate low-level AI enemies when players do it better?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Hobbie on September 17, 2013, 07:56:20 pm
Alright, let's check out Mechwarrior Online and see if it's worth booting up again. Who knows, maybe it will have impr...

*sees latest announcement*

Y'know what, I'm done. I'm so done.

Uninstalled.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 18, 2013, 07:19:52 am
Look at all of you getting mad about video games when what they're doing at the moment is what the game most desperately needs; patches that are not overly ambitious solutions to problems that may not exist.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Flaser on September 19, 2013, 06:13:31 pm
Look at all of you getting mad about video games when what they're doing at the moment is what the game most desperately needs; patches that are not overly ambitious solutions to problems that may not exist.

Frankly, what killed the game for me wasn't the problems plaguing the actual game itself. Given the game's background one could take those in stride and hope they're eventually fixed.

No.

What utterly made me disgusted with the whole affair is the way they've been outright lying to us, and treated their community as a the embarrassing red headed step child instead customers. I could go on and on, but why, when others have already put these arguments forward and more coherently than I could in this post?

http://loadeddicecast.blogspot.hu/2013/08/what-happened-to-mechwarrior-online.html
http://themittani.com/features/mwo-failure-communicate
http://www.gamefront.com/mechwarrior-online-forum-ragesplosion/
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 19, 2013, 06:50:07 pm
What utterly made me disgusted

Was the fact you haven't realized I linked the Mittens article to this thread.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on October 04, 2013, 10:55:18 pm
So they've started to roll out community warfare now...

*ducks*
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 05, 2013, 01:41:58 am
I'll believe it when I see it in-game.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 05, 2013, 07:44:19 am
Ironically I still play this game and I still find it actually really enjoyable, despite massive mismanagement.

You drop and it's still a really MechWarrior-y game, at least as far as you can see in most public matches.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on October 05, 2013, 03:25:54 pm
I do as well.  It's still fun to do a wall of Death on your enemies with 4 Atlai and a Victor, crush their flank with extreme prejudice.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 05, 2013, 03:50:55 pm
Yeah, if there's no CW in-game, I won't bother playing, sorry Esarai, NGTM-1R.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on October 06, 2013, 08:11:29 am
And what's the big thing with Community Warfare ?
It's still the same maps, the same gamemodes and the same mechs.
I don't care about how much virtual territory my house controls.
Many causal players don't even bother to change their alliance for lone wolf to something else.

That's needed is the possibility to rent a private server for a hour or so and the possibility to play on this server a war with an other unit.
That's needed is the possibility to show you units crest on your mech.

Generally the game need some improvements like:
A Gui to set up way points and attack/defence orders without switching to the battlegrid
A working VOIP for your lance
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 06, 2013, 09:56:05 am
And what's the big thing with Community Warfare ?
It's still the same maps, the same gamemodes and the same mechs.
I don't care about how much virtual territory my house controls.
Many causal players don't even bother to change their alliance for lone wolf to something else.

I tend to agree, but what people seem to be all angry about is that Community Warfare is something that the devs promised a long time ago, which has gone unimplemented. People feel they've been lied to. At least, from what I can tell.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 06, 2013, 01:32:58 pm
That, and the fact that if Community Warfare is actually more than just grinding up your faction on the exact same maps over and over, the game might actually be fun.

EDIT: Removing their crazy mechanics like ghost heat and Gauss charge, giving all weapons some sort of inaccuracy based on their TT range bracket values so ERPPC/Gauss alphas to the CT at max range aren't going to happen, adding heat penalties to mech systems as your mech heats up, and buffing heat dissipation so you don't need 14 DHS just to cool down 2 LB-10-X autocannons, 2 medium lasers, and an LRM-5 would be a massive step forward.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: crizza on October 14, 2013, 06:52:20 am
Hm...this game isn't on Steam...
So my question: Is it for free or do I have to pay for it?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BloodEagle on October 14, 2013, 07:02:12 am
You don't have to pay for it.

But they really want you to.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: crizza on October 14, 2013, 07:03:29 am
So it's the same like most of the other free to play games.
Spending money on it will make it easier for you to play, while those who don't spend money call you a premium sucker and so on.
Thanks, I'll give it a spin.
Edit: Great, registert on mwomercs.com, downloaded the launcher and the stuff and now the patch data is corrupt o.O
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on October 14, 2013, 08:17:55 am
The only thing you need to invest real money into is if you want additional mech bays, pretty much everything else can be paid for via in game currency earned via playing.  The only other things to consider is that a few of the default settings specifically 3rd person, arm lock and throttle decay probably should be changed immediately.  The last item is the cadet bonus, there is a limited time income bonus for new players and it's worth cashing in while you can to afford and outfit your first mech.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: crizza on October 14, 2013, 09:26:03 am
So...it works...playing first person and just doing the Trail Mechs...
I have no clue what kind of class I want to play, which weapons and so on.
In my first match I played a medium in support of other mechs...
Strange things are about to happen.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on October 14, 2013, 04:20:57 pm
My biggest issue with the game when I did play was that I didn't know which Mech class I prefered even after trying them out for months. The Trial Mechs didn't give me a feel for what I wanted.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: crizza on October 14, 2013, 04:44:13 pm
After reading a beginners guide I went for a Hunchback, with five Light Laser, two SRM and double heat sinks. Guess after I buy a 250 engine I'll switch to four medium laser...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BloodEagle on October 14, 2013, 05:07:15 pm
Just be warned that when you find a build that works, a week later it will be nerfed and something else will be OP.

Because, you know, randomly changing the stats on stuff is game development.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: crizza on October 14, 2013, 05:09:35 pm
Once the hunchback has the 250 engine, DHS I will upgrade it to a point were I can try out different loadouts.
Right now the bigger problems are those light mechs swarming me to death....
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 14, 2013, 05:48:07 pm
Teamwork is integral to this game. If you're getting constantly swarmed by Lights, keep near some other 'Mechs who can bail you out if you get swamped.

There is no 'Mech that can handle absolutely everything that gets thrown at it. Each has its role, and outside of that role it's going to get stomped. Even if it's an Assault.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BloodEagle on October 14, 2013, 05:55:56 pm
Last time I played, the Stalker was probably the best general use mech.  You could load up on streaks and large lasers (or PPCs) to take out both large and small threats.

The only real issue with it is the front/side-armor, which made it incredibly weak to focused attacks.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: crizza on October 14, 2013, 06:05:37 pm
Most of the time I stick around my lance, which flees the moment I start to circle the enemy.
But I had a nice match with my Hunchback capping the enemy base and the moment another mech tried to stop me, I shot his legs and won the day...happen not that often though^^
Right now I swapped to medium laser and upgraded to the endo steel structure...
So it has a heat efficiency of 1.32 :)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on October 14, 2013, 06:14:15 pm
An HBK typically wants to hang with the team, especially the Assaults.  Here is how I my HBK-4SP (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=22&l=b1d110693f039823b6b8033799e7e3889345443a)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: crizza on October 14, 2013, 06:28:31 pm
Pretty much the same loadout as I use...
But I use SRM 6 and have the standard armor...to upgrade, I don't have enough slots...dunno what that is all about.

Edit: But I carry 4 tons extra ammo for the launchers...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on October 15, 2013, 12:03:26 am
My favorite mech to play has got to be the Victor at the moment.  It's a pocket Highlander with greater maneuverability.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 15, 2013, 02:07:02 am
I enjoy blowing **** up in a Stalker or a Jagermech quite a bit, but I still have the most fun in a Spider.

150 kph top speed, ECM-equipped, jump jets for extra maneuverability = NO ONE CAN TOUCH ME MWAHAHAHAHA!

I usually simply take a scouting or spotting role (have a TAG laser) in the early game and then switch to harrassment/distraction tactics once the battle is joined. I'm not sure why this is so fun, but it is.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 15, 2013, 08:50:23 am
Because, you know, randomly changing the stats on stuff is game development.

I see you've never been involved with competitive balance and a fanbase that's willing to do math before. The truth is, in this case, that's probably for the best. We have too much of a math background from the tabletop and can create optimal builds really fast.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BloodEagle on October 15, 2013, 11:31:34 am
I was mainly criticizing the fact that that was pretty much all they were doing to the mechanics.

And this isn't really a case of balancing the game.  If that's what they were doing, there would have been frequent, small changes to a variety of weapons.  They were clearly picking a 'build-of-the-month' and supercharging it, rendering the time spent on obtaining something else practically wasted.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on October 15, 2013, 05:23:43 pm
The Thud...

Oh jeebus I'm in luv.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on October 15, 2013, 10:09:43 pm
So I fixed my install today, decided what the hell, I'll see how they've done.  Got Crimson Strait on my first three games, and had more than enough opportunity to shoot Phoenix Mechs.  From what I can see, they don't excel in any particular way.  That AC20 knock is damn terrifying.  You know when you've been hit by a 20.  Also Crimson Strait is fun. 
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on October 15, 2013, 10:56:49 pm
Here is my Thud (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=114&l=9546c0345667c5194a59a89e19fc65640d62db1f), the first real heavy I have owned.  It's pretty much a standard TDR-5S but with a 275, endo and all the double heat sinks I could stuff in it.  Sprinkle some LRMs on the approach but the heat dissipation is good enough that I can blaze away with impunity with the lasers and the MGs are surprisingly good at mopping up internals.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: crizza on October 16, 2013, 09:12:42 am
What kind of Mech is a Thud? I looked for it in the Mechlab...but I didn't find a TDR o.O
A Thunderbolt perhaps?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on October 16, 2013, 09:40:38 am
Yep the Thunderbolt. 
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: crizza on October 16, 2013, 10:30:21 am
Which Mech would you suggest for long range fire support and sniping and which armarment?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 16, 2013, 10:36:18 am
I'd suggest an LRM Catapult with Large Lasers in the torso slots.  Unsure on variant.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 16, 2013, 10:58:23 am
CPLT or STK are your best options at the moment.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: crizza on October 16, 2013, 11:57:32 am
Ok, pretty much of what I thought about.
Considering LRMs are they realy worth it? They're all about spread damage, but a good supportive weapon I guess.
Sniping would be (ER-)Large Laser, (ER-)PPC and  Gauss Rifle.
So I guess a Mech with Energy/ballistic and Missile slots would be good, so the CPLT-C1 and the STK variants would indeed be my choice...now, back to grinding the credits...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BloodEagle on October 16, 2013, 04:01:37 pm
(old-ish advice, I could be wrong)

LRMs: If you have someone good with a targeting laser, these are incredible at dealing significant damage to a specific section.  If not, they're great for crowd control and picking off targets that are engaged or fleeing.  Keep in mind that they have a minimum range of 180(?) meters.

ER-LL: Don't.

PPC: A stalker can fit four PPCs on it and still be effective, or six and be a heat machine.  If you alpha strike just right, you can two-shot an enemy mech.

GR: Vs. the PPC, it weighs more and generates less heat, and doesn't leave a trail that's as visible as the PPC's.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 16, 2013, 04:30:51 pm
GR: Vs. the PPC, it weighs more and generates less heat, and doesn't leave a trail that's as visible as the PPC's.

It also has a fire delay of about 1 second now. You have to charge it first. It's not so bad once you get used to the timing, but it is another thing to keep in mind.

Gauss Rifles in general are just... odd. The ammo doesn't explode when shot, but the rifle itself does. It also has monster weight. But on the other hand it does heavy damage and produces next to no heat, which is a godsend on certain maps.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: BloodEagle on October 16, 2013, 04:44:25 pm
It's also really fun to fire, compared to other weapons.  The AC/20 is the same way.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on October 16, 2013, 07:13:49 pm
I find the delay mechanic helps me conserve ammo.  If a target suddenly changes direction at the last second I can hold the trigger and cancel the shot.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on October 17, 2013, 09:28:03 pm
 This thing is made of win.  BLR-1D (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=119&l=a501e7a62eb71571f93a57573b3f9af729ebd676) 

I've typically shied away from XLs but it was only way to mount the loadout, and so far the chassis has been pretty XL friendly.  I just stand a little behind the front line, select a target and let it rip with the AC2s and LLas.  It simply shreds mechs.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 17, 2013, 11:47:10 pm
Oooh, I have to try that out.

Unfortunately, I do not have the C-Bills for an XL 350, but I do have a spare XL 330 lying around, maybe that will do until I get the funds. I can use the extra tonnage to max out the armor.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on October 18, 2013, 08:11:50 am
I pulled the 350 out of my Flame.   :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on October 18, 2013, 02:07:31 pm
Made my first drop with a Spider.

And did more damage with it in one round than in three with my Jagermech.

Light 'Mechs are fun.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on October 19, 2013, 10:22:25 am
 :eek2:

You're one of those rare people who can actually respond fast enough to not get dead, aren't you?  All my light piloting attempts result in me doing at most 200 damage, 1 of 6 games, usually.  Also if people would like to do group drops at some time, let me know.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Al-Rik on October 21, 2013, 01:25:24 pm
:eek2:

You're one of those rare people who can actually respond fast enough to not get dead, aren't you?  All my light piloting attempts result in me doing at most 200 damage, 1 of 6 games, usually.  Also if people would like to do group drops at some time, let me know.

That Spider is real awesome: Er-Large Laser, 4 Machine Guns and 10 Double Heat Sinks.
If you stay in Battleline and focus on hunting down other light Mechs or to kill damaged heavy Mechs 100 000 Credits and 500 XPs are not uncommon.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on October 23, 2013, 09:48:43 am
Oooh... shiny (http://www.twitch.tv/bryanekman/b/472237522).

Skip to 22:07 for a preview of their next map. 

Not sure how I feel about this... art makes it look like we're fighting on the surface of the Death Star, but the supergreeb gets so noisy there're very few stunning vistas.  Gameplay-wise, this is going to be intense.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on October 23, 2013, 02:35:03 pm
Yet an other map completely devoid of any colors. In this case, literally. It's all grey.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 23, 2013, 03:06:42 pm
I'm cool with it.

Mind, I should also point out that UI 2.0 apparently does actually exist and looks pretty neat.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on November 24, 2013, 03:36:31 pm
I'm enjoying it surprisingly much the past month or so.

Especially my new Thunderbolt TDR-9SE wit the jump jets and the large lasers.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on December 15, 2013, 03:26:02 am
They're heeeeeeeere (http://mwomercs.com/clans).
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SpardaSon21 on December 15, 2013, 03:51:59 am
Yeah, and PGI again managed to violently alienate a large portion of their fanbase by yet again having a package deal, this time with shiny gold 'Mechs for $500 each and not actually implementing anything that could help make the game more enjoyable like Community Warfare or UI 2.0.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: pecenipicek on December 15, 2013, 04:28:33 am
i am so glad that i quit this game, i cant explain my gladness in any more words.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on December 15, 2013, 08:10:38 am
Nothing like killing the excitement of clan mechs by introducing them as a sale.  :blah:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: The E on December 15, 2013, 08:21:10 am
Nothing like killing the excitement of clan mechs by introducing them as a sale.  :blah:

As a sale for ridiculous money.

Seriously, if anyone actually pays 500$ for a slightly golden Mech, I might just feel morally obligated to visit them and laugh at them in person.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on December 15, 2013, 08:57:05 am
Well, I guess that's MWO for you. Though they did top themselves here. Notify me when the Dire Wolf is in "trail mechs" section, I'm not going to give them a penny, and especially not 500$. At least the models don't look too bad, but you can't really carry a game on looks alone. Sorry. I'd rather give this bloody underwater mission in MW2:GBL another shot. And I don't care MWO probably has missiles with more polies than MW2 mechs. MW2 is a better game, plain and simple.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 15, 2013, 11:00:42 am
Well, I've read through their recent command chair posts, and what they proposed sounds interesting.  Attack/Defend mode is going to rely around defending your base's primary systems such as generator and communications array (sounds a lot like Tribes: Ascend, which is a lot of fun) and you'll get to choose where the turrets go.  It's just... the progress they've made has me thinking they've been on a 4 month vacation and are just now getting back to the office and dusting off their project and going 'oh **** we blew all our dev money on hookers and cocaine, quick, ANOTHER SALE!'.

I mean seriously, how bullheaded do you have to be to completely miss the fact that your client base is really upset that you don't even seem to have an engineering team and appear to be spending 99% of your money making more sale packages?  What the **** are they paying Niko Snow for?  To tell them they're the greatest dev team in the world and that nothing's wrong and the 20+ pages of rage and/or ragequit are 'a minor issue'?

It seriously feels as if they've stopped development altogether and are riding the wreckage as far as they can.  Unless they deliver a frakking trueborn unicorn on Tuesday, I can draw no other conclusions.

EDIT:  And seriously?  After 5 months of saying 'new game modes and clans are just around the corner,' the best they can do is 'uhhh... Skirmish and Attack/Defend!'  You have an entire franchise of battles and battle types to draw from and the only thing you can think to do is remove the bases from Assault mode and add a base attack mode?  Why the **** not add a Clan Invasion mode, where a company of IS mechs is pitted against a binary of Clan mechs?  Or what the ****, do a goddamn Trial of Possession, where players can bid mechs, C-Bills and equipment?

They've had 4 months and all they've got are two gamemodes that have been the staple of other free-to-plays for ages.

DOUBLE EDIT:  Holy ****.  I just checked the Clan Collection feedback thread once more.  196 pages.  196 PAGES in two days.  'A small, vocal minority' indeed.  I don't think a unicorn will be enough.  They're going to need the miracle power of cyberjesus if they want to survive this.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on December 15, 2013, 12:04:53 pm
IS 4 Life

Too Sweet.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 15, 2013, 12:07:25 pm
Aaaand... you know you dun' goof'd when even Forbes is calling your **** (http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/12/15/free-to-play-mechwarrior-online-offends-players-with-500-golden-mechs/).

As for new gamemodes, why not a 'Battle of Tukayyid' mode?  IS vs. Clans on a different planetary sections with different objectives each run?  Like the IS has to stage a convoy ambush, or the Clans need to crush the defenders holding a fortress?  Then sum the results so we can know how the fight for the Sphere is going.

Sheesh... the absolute ineptitude.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: The E on December 15, 2013, 12:37:37 pm
Yeah, MWO has been a string of "How could they **** this up?" disasters since they went public.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on December 15, 2013, 12:46:27 pm
DOUBLE EDIT:  Holy ****.  I just checked the Clan Collection feedback thread once more.  196 pages.  196 PAGES in two days.  'A small, vocal minority' indeed.  I don't think a unicorn will be enough.  They're going to need the miracle power of cyberjesus if they want to survive this.
I read through a bunch of posts and there were even more pages according to some. But the mods went on a mad delete spree.

Aside from that, yes to everything you've said. The sheer incompetence is just mind boggling.

Yeah, MWO has been a string of "How could they **** this up?" disasters since they went public.
yes
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on December 15, 2013, 01:00:41 pm
Quote from: Friggin' FORBES
I can’t imagine MWO will ever become a major force in the competitive shooter scene if it continues making decisions like this, and anyone setting a $500 price point for a golden mech might be better off in the magic bean-peddling business.
That sums it up pretty well. When can we expect magic bean (cures all diseases, predicts future and looks snazzy!) to appear in MWO store?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on December 15, 2013, 01:28:42 pm
Only thing I want out of MWO now is models and concept art.  At least those could be used elsewhere.  As a game, it's a pathetic failure.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 15, 2013, 01:43:35 pm
Fortunately, we have the technology to extract those.  Part of me thinks it'd be better to spring all their assets and just build a community-developed version.  Their handling of it is just depressing.

If we don't want to cause maximum copyright infringement, break out Unity or something and build a thinly-veiled imitation that's just different enough to not break copyright and still have everything the community has been asking for instead of 'SALES EVERY WEEKEND, GET YOUR DIGITAL EYESEX WHILE IT'S HOT.'

Ghost Heat?  Gone.  Weapon Balance?  Start your own server and tweak tweak tweak.  Maps too small?  Huzzah for randomly generated maps!  Economy?  Why not have an actual economy with players joining a merc corps at the very start?  Why not a real goddamn market, with trades between players?  Why only 4 game modes?  This is BattleTech for gods' sake.  There's supposed to be assassination, espionage, heroic last stands, daring raids, sieges, orbital bombardment and Trials.  There's so much they could have done and have chosen not to.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on December 15, 2013, 02:08:36 pm
I'm wondering how difficult it would be to port MWO models into MW4...
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 15, 2013, 02:30:47 pm
How about Living Legends ? At least CryEngine ain't afraid of many polygons.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 15, 2013, 02:43:28 pm
I would love to do something with LL, but unfortunately every time I download it I get told the files are corrupted.  This happens from all sources.  I am unsure of the cause.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on December 15, 2013, 03:08:10 pm
Fortunately, we have the technology to extract those.  Part of me thinks it'd be better to spring all their assets and just build a community-developed version.  Their handling of it is just depressing.

If we don't want to cause maximum copyright infringement, break out Unity or something and build a thinly-veiled imitation that's just different enough to not break copyright and still have everything the community has been asking for instead of 'SALES EVERY WEEKEND, GET YOUR DIGITAL EYESEX WHILE IT'S HOT.'

Ghost Heat?  Gone.  Weapon Balance?  Start your own server and tweak tweak tweak.  Maps too small?  Huzzah for randomly generated maps!  Economy?  Why not have an actual economy with players joining a merc corps at the very start?  Why not a real goddamn market, with trades between players?  Why only 4 game modes?  This is BattleTech for gods' sake.  There's supposed to be assassination, espionage, heroic last stands, daring raids, sieges, orbital bombardment and Trials.  There's so much they could have done and have chosen not to.
And first of all (for me, at least), we could have a single player campaign complete with epic story, Clan trials and an opportunity to try out almost every mech and develop your playstyle against AI before jumping into multi (or just endlessly build mechs in Mechlab and try them out in skirmish, like I do in MW4). And perhaps an MW4:Mercs-style tutorial, both immersive and better for teaching game mechanics than a bunch of videos. Who said that it has to be multiplayer-only game? It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Great assets and nice gameplay wasted on a multiplayer game, usually with no provisions for an user-made campaign.

I'd certainly volunteer as a writer for the project, if nothing else. The rest depends on how complicated mission making would be. I could definitely help with it if it was as easy as FREDing or MW4 editor.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 15, 2013, 07:48:44 pm
Frankly the rage over the 500-dollar 'Mechs amuses me endlessly. If they want to exploit the LOOK AT MY PENIS segment of the market, more power to them.

The other packs are pretty reasonable stuff, all told. They've stated they're not going for the superior tech from the tabletop before so we'll see how it balances.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on December 15, 2013, 09:07:20 pm
I don't know if "pretty reasonable" really applies to packages that cost double what a brand new triple-A title.

Or, perhaps the fact that it's pretty reasonable by MWO standards should tell us something.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 15, 2013, 09:17:36 pm
I don't know if "pretty reasonable" really applies to packages that cost double what a brand new triple-A title.

Or, perhaps the fact that it's pretty reasonable by MWO standards should tell us something.

A thirty or sixty dollar pack as it is is actually a pretty good deal, if you work out the cost vs. what you're getting. The others are, again, for the Look At My Penis market.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on December 15, 2013, 09:26:42 pm
Meanwhile, only and exactly two packages cost that little, and both of them are of generally specialist or sub-par designs.  In order to get anything generally considered "decent" you have to fork over $90.

I also just noticed that the Summoner has eleven missile ports.  This bugs me inordinately much.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on December 15, 2013, 10:15:40 pm
I also just noticed that the Summoner has eleven missile ports.  This bugs me inordinately much.

But... but these go to eleven.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 15, 2013, 10:17:11 pm
You're right... 10 bucks a mech is a steal when it comes to MWO's normal pricing scheme.  But what I think pisses everyone off is that the Mechs with the highest demand are hidden behind 8 others.  "Oh, you want only the Timber Wolf? Lol too ****in' bad, gotta buy things you don't need if you want it."

I also just noticed that the Summoner has eleven missile ports.  This bugs me inordinately much.

But... but these go to eleven.

Wrong.  These go to fifteen.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 15, 2013, 10:28:05 pm
In order to get anything generally considered "decent" you have to fork over $90.

For nine 'Mechs, plus  thirty days premium. The other packs may be really expensive but they actually give you a lot of stuff. I agree it's not optimal this way, but you are actually getting your money's worth out of this.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SypheDMar on December 15, 2013, 10:31:45 pm
Seems like it's about time to quit playing the game, eh?

It's such a shame. I long for the MechWarrior Reboot. If only someone funded it back then. Hell, in hindsight, I'm sure a Kickstarter would've been successful.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on December 15, 2013, 11:10:01 pm
While NGMT raises some points, it isn't as well priced as the Phoenix Package.  The top tier Overlord Package for Phoenix was what? $80 for 12 mechs/bays, 90 days of Prime and some cockpit crap?  The closest in this Clan package is the "Daishi" which is 12 mechs/bays and 60 days of Prime for $120.  Heck the lowest tier Clan package, 3 Kit Foxes, is the same as the Saber package for six 55 tonners.  While I'm not exactly driven to rage over this I certainly am not going to invest any money in it unless they decided to price it competitively and start to show some progress on other fronts.  To be honest they can price it whatever they want, but if the market isn't buying then they will need to reevaluate.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SkycladGuardian on December 16, 2013, 02:13:41 am
I think what irks most people is the fact that they've started a preorder for Clan-Mechs although they still don't know how to balance them out (so far it seems to boil down to simply nerfing clan tech, instead of giving IS an advantage in tonnage or numbers) and they still haven't delivered on many additions/upgrades like UI 2.0, Community Warfare, DX11 ect. which had been already announced months ago.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: TrashMan on December 16, 2013, 04:17:13 am
The purists woudl rage if the Mechs would get different stats compared to canon.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: An4ximandros on December 16, 2013, 04:24:28 am
Am I the only one here who does not give a dang about the canon mechs and wishes Mechwarrior devs had the balls to add some of their own to the myriad?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 16, 2013, 09:06:07 am
I doubt they can afford something like that when they're already in the red in term of public trust.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 16, 2013, 09:36:01 am
I think what irks most people is the fact that they've started a preorder for Clan-Mechs although they still don't know how to balance them out

They've said since the start they intend to make Clan weapons different, rather than the statistically amazing monstrosities they are in tabletop. Literally since the beginning when people asked that before the game even exited alpha.

I don't know where you've been.

Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SkycladGuardian on December 16, 2013, 10:45:03 am
I think what irks most people is the fact that they've started a preorder for Clan-Mechs although they still don't know how to balance them out

They've said since the start they intend to make Clan weapons different, rather than the statistically amazing monstrosities they are in tabletop. Literally since the beginning when people asked that before the game even exited alpha.

I don't know where you've been.

I've joined the game only two months ago, but that's what I've read among other things on the forums. The fact that PGI plan to balance Clan Tech by nerfing does not sit well with some players. It's impossible to please everyone, of course. But Clan balancing is only one issue. The bigger ones are that Clans are already announced for a fixed date (17 June 2014), but there is still not much to see of CW, for instance.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 16, 2013, 12:50:37 pm
You know what?  We already get games stacked 10v12 against because the matchmaker derps... why do they fear specialized queuing so much?  I would love to drop in a 10v12 Clan vs IS match.  That would be frakking awesome.  Either fight the good, yet unwinnable fight, or claim great honor on the field.  It's not like doomsday weapons absolutely must be nerfed to make them acceptable.  Make them rare, make people fight for them via trials and possible salvage.  If you dump them into the current game without any new mechanics, the only way to handle it is tweaking.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dark Hunter on December 17, 2013, 12:34:51 am
I think what irks most people is the fact that they've started a preorder for Clan-Mechs although they still don't know how to balance them out

They've said since the start they intend to make Clan weapons different, rather than the statistically amazing monstrosities they are in tabletop. Literally since the beginning when people asked that before the game even exited alpha.

I don't know where you've been.

They've talked about a lot of features they intend to implement.

I don't trust a damned thing the MWO devs say. Their actions are all that matter at this point.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: TrashMan on December 17, 2013, 01:46:57 am
You know what?  We already get games stacked 10v12 against because the matchmaker derps... why do they fear specialized queuing so much?  I would love to drop in a 10v12 Clan vs IS match.  That would be frakking awesome.  Either fight the good, yet unwinnable fight, or claim great honor on the field.  It's not like doomsday weapons absolutely must be nerfed to make them acceptable.  Make them rare, make people fight for them via trials and possible salvage.  If you dump them into the current game without any new mechanics, the only way to handle it is tweaking.

Sounds good in theory. But sooner or later the rare stops being rare as more and more people get them.

Now personally I wouldn't mind it at all if hte devs experimented and whatever they wanted. I never took the MW universe as a sacred cow anyway, given that it was initially nothing more than a bunch of things blatantly stolen from other IP's and given it's own name. Granted, over the years it evolved into having it's own identity, but at least for me, it wasn't a "strong" universe.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on December 17, 2013, 02:44:06 am
Am I the only one here who does not give a dang about the canon mechs and wishes Mechwarrior devs had the balls to add some of their own to the myriad?

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that, based on past results, I would very much not like the devs to grow some balls.  There becomes a point where even dedication and determination will not overcome incompetence.  PGI passed that around the time ghost heat started.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Hades on December 17, 2013, 08:13:46 am
Am I the only one here who does not give a dang about the canon mechs and wishes Mechwarrior devs had the balls to add some of their own to the myriad?

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that, based on past results, I would very much not like the devs to grow some balls.  There becomes a point where even dedication and determination will not overcome incompetence.  PGI passed that around the time ghost heat started.
I disagree, if only because their concept artist and modelers are absolutely great at their job.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on December 17, 2013, 11:34:16 am
when it comes to sound and mechs: yes
but for map design? Noooooo
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on December 17, 2013, 03:52:56 pm
Am I the only one here who does not give a dang about the canon mechs and wishes Mechwarrior devs had the balls to add some of their own to the myriad?

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that, based on past results, I would very much not like the devs to grow some balls.  There becomes a point where even dedication and determination will not overcome incompetence.  PGI passed that around the time ghost heat started.
Besides, there are hundreds of mechs in BT universe, of almost every possible shape and size. Why invent new ones? OK, MW4:Mercs guys did so, and their additions were pretty neat, but they weren't anything stellar, either, and got a bit drowned in the sea of canon designs they also added.
However, I certainly wouldn't be against incorporating lesser known designs or even giving new visuals to old, neglected "unseen" mechs. That's the best place to be creative about mech design, since they actually have to differ from the original design as much as possible while maintaining it's "spirit".
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 17, 2013, 08:03:51 pm
Instead of announcing the Clans they should have ****in' given us a Reseen Marauder.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on December 18, 2013, 12:20:23 am
But then all the grognards who can't get over the fact that the Unseen are no longer the only 'Mechs around would complain.

And we can't have complaining in MWO, now, you hear.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Hobbie on December 18, 2013, 12:41:28 am
I'd like to complain about this complaining. I think that complaining about complaints is a ridiculous complaint and complaining shouldn't be complained about. :P

In other news, I'm going back to MW4 Mercs. Dakkannihilator, anyone? :P
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: An4ximandros on December 18, 2013, 12:50:27 am
Living Legends. :( :sigh:

It only goes to show that good games are made by people who want to play, not by someone who seeks to make money.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: TrashMan on December 18, 2013, 01:03:01 am
The Unseen should stay dead.
They were direct and blatant steals and best everyone forgots they ever existed.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: headdie on December 18, 2013, 02:01:17 am
The Unseen should stay dead.
They were direct and blatant steals and best everyone forgots they ever existed.

errrr, yes but no.  while they were originally created for other IPs they were I believe user with the original artists permission as per Japanese copyright/IP law
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 18, 2013, 02:06:03 am
The Unseen should stay dead.
They were direct and blatant steals and best everyone forgots they ever existed.

Get out. They were often quite close, but not direct save one or two.

(That and Heavy Gear stole the Scopedog, watchugonnado?)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: TrashMan on December 18, 2013, 11:32:51 am
Oh please. Battletech ripped of Robotech/Macross so much it wasn't even funny.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on December 18, 2013, 01:08:33 pm
I think you might be confusing "ripped off" with "purchased for use".  FASA, back in the day, legally obtained a vast majority if not all of the Unseen designs.  Copyright complications and the machinations of Harmony Gold (who's sole reason for existence, so far as I can tell, is to acquire and sit on various licenses until people want them badly enough to pay through the nose) forced them to be removed.

They were not stolen.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on December 18, 2013, 02:54:37 pm
You guys been reading the latest thread? It's pure entertainment
http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/145189-russ-bullock-2013-state-of-the-inner-sphere-feedback-thread/
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: IronBeer on December 18, 2013, 03:12:10 pm
Y'know, I may not be the best commentator on these matters, but I'll say a brief piece anyways.

I really wasn't grabbed by MWO when I first tried it a few months back. I've only got room for so many grindy F2P multiplayer games, and MWO just didn't strike me as generally "good" enough to warrant making space. Yes, the presentation (graphics, sound, etc) is quite nice, but I found the frontend main menu confusing and unintuitive, and the gameplay felt very similar to old MechWarrior titles I've played previously. Having now gotten my hands on MW4:Mercs, I think the latter is the superior game even before considering dev antics, of which I'm admittedly not very clued into.

It's a damn shame really. Genre fans have been really hard-up for a good stompy robots game, and watching MWO's saga is nothing but disappointing. Perhaps I should look into Living Legends, or maybe I'll just stick with Mercs.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SkycladGuardian on December 18, 2013, 03:26:23 pm
Y'know, I may not be the best commentator on these matters, but I'll say a brief piece anyways.

I really wasn't grabbed by MWO when I first tried it a few months back. I've only got room for so many grindy F2P multiplayer games, and MWO just didn't strike me as generally "good" enough to warrant making space. Yes, the presentation (graphics, sound, etc) is quite nice, but I found the frontend main menu confusing and unintuitive, and the gameplay felt very similar to old MechWarrior titles I've played previously. Having now gotten my hands on MW4:Mercs, I think the latter is the superior game even before considering dev antics, of which I'm admittedly not very clued into.

It's a damn shame really. Genre fans have been really hard-up for a good stompy robots game, and watching MWO's saga is nothing but disappointing. Perhaps I should look into Living Legends, or maybe I'll just stick with Mercs.

I skipped MW4 because the reviews said it was more arcade-style and less of a simulation than MW3 and 2. Is it (MW4) any good, after all?
Concerning MW:O, I still hold some hope for it, though that might be related to the fact that I'm fairly new to the game, and I haven't been disappointed as often as the veteran players, so far.  :nervous:
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: An4ximandros on December 18, 2013, 03:31:56 pm
Please, do look up Living Legends. It was a labor of love. A bunch of Battletech fans got together and gave a shot at the biggest game they could make. You aren't even restricted to mechs!
You can use: Tanks; Hovercraft; Airplanes; VTOLs; Elementals; And I am likely forgetting more. It was really something beautiful. Even if it lacked a heat-sink mechanic and customization. (Which, in my opinion made the game better, forcing folks to use balanced presets, rather than game breaking Octo PPC platforms that turn your mech into an oven the moment you fire :P) Check it out, at least see some footage on Y'tube.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: SkycladGuardian on December 18, 2013, 03:44:42 pm
Living Legends' Homepage is already bookmarked. As soon as I have some time on my hand, I'll take a closer look :)

Oh, I haven't seen any Octo- or Qadro-PPC Mechs in MWO. I think they nerfed the PPC after/during Open Beta. Though I'm quite a happy owner of a 9-MLas Hunchie. It's pure meta-gaming, but it's fun ;)
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: StarSlayer on December 18, 2013, 03:51:33 pm
To be fair the 4P pretty much comes that way.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: IronBeer on December 18, 2013, 04:05:54 pm
I skipped MW4 because the reviews said it was more arcade-style and less of a simulation than MW3 and 2. Is it (MW4) any good, after all?
I think hardcore BT fans would take issue with the hardpoint system and the lack of Standard/XL engine customization. Also the inability to shoot off legs (near as I've seen thus far), and all defeated 'mechs exploding violently.

That said, there are some features that I've only seen in Mercs (not in base MW4) that I quite liked. There are a ton of 'mech designs, and a bunch of "high-tech" equipment that allows for a lot of versatility in weapon customization.

As with most things, Your Mileage May VaryTM.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: esarai on December 18, 2013, 04:37:48 pm
For me, Living Legends' downloads are always corrupted.  It makes me sad because I really want to play and I can't.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Aesaar on December 18, 2013, 05:08:27 pm
MW4's mech customisation was honestly my favorite out of all the games precisely because it actually tried to make it make sense.  No 30 ton light mechs with the exact same amount of internal space as a 100 ton assault.  Big weapons would only fit in hardpoints big enough to accommodate them, so no AC/20 wielding Ravens.  It suffered because MW4 weapon balance had a lot of issues, but the system itself was quite good.

Oh, and that game made the Vulture from a decent looking mech to an absolutely gorgeous one.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: -Joshua- on December 18, 2013, 05:13:13 pm
I skipped MW4 because the reviews said it was more arcade-style and less of a simulation than MW3 and 2. Is it (MW4) any good, after all?
I think hardcore BT fans would take issue with the hardpoint system and the lack of Standard/XL engine customization. Also the inability to shoot off legs (near as I've seen thus far), and all defeated 'mechs exploding violently.

That said, there are some features that I've only seen in Mercs (not in base MW4) that I quite liked. There are a ton of 'mech designs, and a bunch of "high-tech" equipment that allows for a lot of versatility in weapon customization.

As with most things, Your Mileage May VaryTM.

MW4 was mainly designed around multiplayer and multiplayer balance. And multiplayer on 56K modems. In which it worked suprisingly good, especially compared to it's predecessor, which was rather unplayable in multiplayer (you'd have to aim ahead based on pings moreso then actual weapon speed) However, some details were lost. For example, almost all the weapons were hitscan, as opposed to MW3s ballistic projectiles and recoil mechanics. The mech hardpoint system was also a result of this, to prevent the "Weapon boats" that occured a lot in MW3 multiplayer. So yeah, it's quite a bit more arcade, but the meat of the Mechwarrior franchise (customizing mechs, crippling arms and legs) is still there.

You can actually "Leg" someone in MW4. However, "Legging someone" will simply result in that leg becoming limp, rather then causing the mech to fall over and be destroyed (This is what happened in MW3, and it caused great frustration in quite a few players - IIRC, in MW2 you'd become immobile but not destroyed, so you could still use your jumpjets and torso to get some shots in. MW3 made it game over right away). You have to destroy both legs in order to claim a kill.

For me, Living Legends' downloads are always corrupted.  It makes me sad because I really want to play and I can't.

Whoa, even with Bittorrent's built in anti-download-corruption mechanisms?
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Hobbie on December 18, 2013, 06:06:45 pm
You guys been reading the latest thread? It's pure entertainment
http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/145189-russ-bullock-2013-state-of-the-inner-sphere-feedback-thread/

Oh goodness me, that is utterly catastrophic! I can't stop laughing!
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on December 18, 2013, 11:11:11 pm
I should go work there, PGI is a 5 minute walk from the studio I'm at :P
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: TrashMan on December 19, 2013, 01:13:50 am
I looked into Living Legend. Looks good. Altough some mech re-designs actually look worse than they dd in MW4.

For example, one of my favorites, the Bushwacker. In MW3 it has a predatory, modern feel. In LL it looks like a an old cargo box.

HMmmm... thinkong of modding MW4 and making a Bushwacker II. I like symetry and that tiny arm bothers me. So two arms with the big gun and two missile launchers = so much win.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on December 19, 2013, 07:16:59 am
I should go work there, PGI is a 5 minute walk from the studio I'm at :P
Should you ever walk past, Throw a molotov cocktail through the window for me  :p
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: LordMelvin on December 19, 2013, 10:28:33 am
I should go work there, PGI is a 5 minute walk from the studio I'm at :P

Well if their website's to be believed, they're looking to hire just about an entire devteam... http://infinitegamepublishing.com/careers
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on December 19, 2013, 02:13:05 pm
I should go work there, PGI is a 5 minute walk from the studio I'm at :P
Should you ever walk past, Throw a molotov cocktail through the window for me  :p

Well they're situated in a mall with a threate above that I quite like, so not really an option :)

I should go work there, PGI is a 5 minute walk from the studio I'm at :P

Well if their website's to be believed, they're looking to hire just about an entire devteam... http://infinitegamepublishing.com/careers

Yeah, well my experience is in animation not game development so I'm probably not a very desirable candidate.
I do know some animators who've worked on similar games like Mechwarrior Tactics and animating the mechs walk about was boring as sin apparently :)

I wouldn't mind drawing some robots though. But though I've drawn a bunch of battletech stuff recently don't think my skills are up to spec.
http://koalabrownie.deviantart.com/gallery/

Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: IronBeer on December 19, 2013, 02:28:32 pm
I wouldn't mind drawing some robots though. But though I've drawn a bunch of battletech stuff recently don't think my skills are up to spec.
http://koalabrownie.deviantart.com/gallery/
For what it's worth, I think your skills are "up to spec". Quality illustrations there, though I think what you mean is that your style is different from the very "defined" hard-lines technical illustrations common to BT.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on December 19, 2013, 02:40:27 pm
I wouldn't mind drawing some robots though. But though I've drawn a bunch of battletech stuff recently don't think my skills are up to spec.
http://koalabrownie.deviantart.com/gallery/
For what it's worth, I think your skills are "up to spec". Quality illustrations there, though I think what you mean is that your style is different from the very "defined" hard-lines technical illustrations common to BT.

Thanks.
Well these are fairly quick sketches that I am basing on the original artwork for the mechs
(ie found here http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page )

But have not really done a lot of finished or rendered work that I think is more common to video  game concept art.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 23, 2013, 06:19:59 pm
And suddenly, everything changed, and PGI adopted the ability to get the 'Mech you wanted.

Shame how we got here, but hey. They even threw in a free Masakari-level back with their gold stuff.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Spoon on December 23, 2013, 07:57:55 pm
Everytime I recieve a MWO email its about "STUFF FOR SALE"
but nothing ever that makes me actually want to come back and play the game itself.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Scotty on December 23, 2013, 10:45:09 pm
Well at least PGI proves that their ability to read and/or hear feedback is operational, if not at full capability.
Title: Re: MechWarrior Online
Post by: Dragon on December 24, 2013, 02:30:25 am
I don't even check MWO news anymore. What is this cha