Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: StarSlayer on September 18, 2009, 11:57:28 pm
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Anybody else have it? I was really hoping for a more realistic WW2 complement to Ace Combat 6. I find myself closing into gun range and hosing people with the Vulcan quite a bit AC6 and I was jonesing to hear the feral howl of Merlins and fierce chatter of Browning 50 cals. I picked it up tonight and took it for about a half hour spin. I don't think thats enough to form a qualified opinion but my initial impressions are a bit on the fence. I really miss the control scheme from AC6, the setup allowed me to look around very easily, have a decent amount of throttle control and everything but the rudders are in easy reach. I find the throttle setup in IL-2 a bit of a pain to control and the fact that I need to temporarily give up throttle and rudder control to look around very displeasing. I was also hoping to just be able to hop in a FW-190D-9 or other bird of my choice and start ripping round the sky but apparently I'll need to do a fair bit of unlocking first. I'll try to give better feedback after I've had some time in the cockpit but I'm curious to hear other folks impressions.
I'm really hoping this pans out nicely.
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I crashed.
So much.
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I tried the demo for a while trying to make it work for me but I just couldn't do it. The flight model is borrowed from the PC version which means its quite good (although I can tell they tweaked it a lot) but the control scheme on the 360 means that its simply not a fun experience when using the more realistic flight model.
You need a proper joystick to really have a good time with it. Which means its better to go with the much more expandable IL-2 1946 version on PC than the Birds of Prey 360 version. The graphics are beautiful and the planes are rendered faithfully (if not historically) but the next version of IL-2 will probably leapfrog over BoP.
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I played the demo, but it's not amazing. Sure graphics are quite good and the plane models look amazing, but it just lacks the comfortable controls with the controller. I find playing CFS3 a far better choice
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CFS3?
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Combat Flight Simulator 3. But I don't believe that was on the 360.
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Ah I see, like I mentioned I was looking for something to complement AC6 on the console. I had some good times with the first and second MCFS, and I've got a compilation edition of IL-2 for the PC waiting for me to get a new rig. After a bit more fooling around I think IL-2 BoP will fit the bill, aside from the issues with the controls I think it will do well enough to suit my needs. If I could remap the controls I think I'd be golden.
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Combat Flight Simulator 3. But I don't believe that was on the 360.
I thought it was incredibly boring, too. Picked it up for a few bucks a couple weeks back, uninstalled it after a few hours. Would much rather play some more Forgotten Battles.
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Combat Flight Simulator 3. But I don't believe that was on the 360.
PC flight sims are better for the singular reason you can customize your controls on a joystick
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Combat Flight Simulator 3. But I don't believe that was on the 360.
PC flight sims are better for the singular reason you can customize your controls on a joystick
Yeah, but IL-2 Sturmovik is on the PC as well and kicks CFS3's ass.
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Only kicks ass with a computer that can support it
I don't have that computer
Ergo, CFS3 is better since I can actually play it
I found that the bombers die too easily in the demo. Come on, I shot you twice and you blow up on me? I didn't even hit anything relative to importance!
Maybe it's the fact they are Junkers (at least, I think they were... correct me if I am wrong), but still
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I found that the bombers die too easily in the demo. Come on, I shot you twice and you blow up on me? I didn't even hit anything relative to importance!
Maybe it's the fact they are Junkers (at least, I think they were... correct me if I am wrong), but still
they take more on harder levels, and the 87's are pretty tough relatively speaking.
also, tyhe heinkelss i think. He-111's?
i wih the game had a difficulty system siimiliar to silent hunter games, in that you choose what realistic options you want.
mainly because i want something inbetween then 800mph, 2-hit-kill and the constant stalling, losing control, crap realistic climb rate planes on 'medium'
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Ya, I wasn't so fond of being able to go Mach 1 in a Spitfire.
That is a little... fast don't ya think?
I'm not entirely sure what system they have setup with the speed gauge, because I see that thing going past 1000 when I accelerate (which should be determined by a fixed setting much like a joystick control). 1000 knots? 1000 km/h? 1000 m/s (damn)?
Or simply 1000 units
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Only kicks ass with a computer that can support it
I don't have that computer
Ergo, CFS3 is better since I can actually play it
I found that the bombers die too easily in the demo. Come on, I shot you twice and you blow up on me? I didn't even hit anything relative to importance!
Maybe it's the fact they are Junkers (at least, I think they were... correct me if I am wrong), but still
Turn the difficulty up.
Your computer can't handle IL-2? Your computer sucks! You can't blame IL-2 for that.
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Turn the difficulty up.
I actually don't think the console demo had any harder difficulties to what I remember...
And yes, I do agree with you on the fact my computer sucks. But hey, I am currently putting research into what kind of cards I can work with, and whether or not I can actually install them (really sketchy motherboard, took a look at it)
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Turn the difficulty up.
I actually don't think the console demo had any harder difficulties to what I remember...
And yes, I do agree with you on the fact my computer sucks. But hey, I am currently putting research into what kind of cards I can work with, and whether or not I can actually install them (really sketchy motherboard, took a look at it)
had to unlock the harder ones, unless you're talking about the highest one, but medium the planes DO take a couple more hits to down.
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Only kicks ass with a computer that can support it
I don't have that computer
Ergo, CFS3 is better since I can actually play it
I found that the bombers die too easily in the demo. Come on, I shot you twice and you blow up on me? I didn't even hit anything relative to importance!
Maybe it's the fact they are Junkers (at least, I think they were... correct me if I am wrong), but still
You have a computer that can run CFS3 well but not IL-2? IL-2 works well on just about anything...yes graphical details turned down...but still!
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Oh that IL-2
I was thinking that the one they have on console was made for PC as well
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Yep...this IL-2: http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Info.aspx?pId=5163&tab=download&dcId=63
At the moment...its the best of the WWII air combat simulators available anywhere. The graphics aren't as fancy as the new console version ...largely because IL-2 is several years old now. But with the various updates to flight models, graphics, and so forth its still an incredible game. Having around 250 flyables (fighter, bomber, dive bomber, attack/strafer, etc.) doesn't hurt either :)
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I think I'm getting the hang of it now. Still a bit peeved about the controls and the ability to look around but I'm getting use to it, you need to go into options and tone the elevator sensitivity way the hell down to avoid the spins. I wish there was a bit more feedback for the controller besides shoot and WEP, better driving games use feedback to allow the player to get the feel of the car and I'd appreciate having a little rumble to let me know i'm pushing the bird to hard. I also wish their was a flight recorder, it's always fun in AC6 to go and watch a particularly good mission. But overall I'm enjoying it especially on the higher difficulty/sim settings, though to be honest i figure once i stop being a cheap git and get a new rig IL-2 1946 is probably going to have this beat.
I'd really be stoked if Ace Combat would delve into different eras, WW2/Korea/Vietnam aircraft sets would be a lot of fun and a nice change up rather then keep using modern jets. I'd be stoked for a little Crusader vs Fishbed action
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Okay, I took the time to beat the first level
I played simulator difficulty. Well, what can I say about the constant spinning wildly out of control into the ground? I try to perform a simple task, one that a P51 could easily perform... but instead it wants to stall
Must be the sensitivity and the fact I am used to pushing the joystick all the way to perform a task in any game.
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Yeah your going to be screwed trying to do it like that, I ended up poking around the BoP forums for the tip about the elevator sensitivity. I dialed it way down and I hardly ever stall or get caught in a spin.
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I'd really be stoked if Ace Combat would delve into different eras, WW2/Korea/Vietnam aircraft sets would be a lot of fun and a nice change up rather then keep using modern jets. I'd be stoked for a little Crusader vs Fishbed action
I read a rumor once saying that something like that was going to happen. But they may have had their sources crossed because the Aces team was working on Sky Crawlers for the Wii in Japan which is loosely WWII air combat related (very loosely).
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That would indeed come in handy so I wouldn't have to worry about "Am I going to push this a millimeter too much and spin to a horrible death?"
However, I did manage to destroy several anti air with that method of using my plane as a spinning bomb. Most fun I had all day
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I'd really be stoked if Ace Combat would delve into different eras, WW2/Korea/Vietnam aircraft sets would be a lot of fun and a nice change up rather then keep using modern jets. I'd be stoked for a little Crusader vs Fishbed action
I read a rumor once saying that something like that was going to happen. But they may have had their sources crossed because the Aces team was working on Sky Crawlers for the Wii in Japan which is loosely WWII air combat related (very loosely).
I've seen some of the trailers but I haven't seen the movie but the aircraft look pretty snazzy. The pusher prop/canard one seems like a further developed version of the Shinden and another looks a bit like a FW190 D-9/P-51/F4U hybrid. Unfortunately the Wii game doesn't look that interesting, the graphics don't seem to stack up and I can't figure flying with a Wii remote.
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You could presumably hold it sideways and use it as a makeshift yoke. I think that's how the plane mini-game in Wii Sports Resort works, and that received favorable comments from what I saw.
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You could presumably hold it sideways and use it as a makeshift yoke. I think that's how the plane mini-game in Wii Sports Resort works, and that received favorable comments from what I saw.
still, no motion-senor can beat a normal joystick.
if it turns out good for a game, i might consider picking it up next summer.
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I'll just wait for the new Ace Combat extravaganza :)
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It is funny, I had a dogfight against two Bf-109Es in my Spit MKII. Took about fifteen minutes, we started at about 3000 ft but most of it was tree top level (and below) over a snow covered Ardennes. In fifteen minutes on Ace Combat 6 I'd probably have upwards of 30 kills, however two kills in BoP in sim mode is very gratifying. I think its because you need to fly by the claws in BoP, most of the fight is spent trying to locate the targets and getting your plane into position for the kill without getting riddled with holes or just plain falling out of the sky from bad plane handling. I will need to load up 1946 whence i get a new PC :D
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What are two 109Es and a Spit II doing over the Ardennes?
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Yep...this IL-2: http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Info.aspx?pId=5163&tab=download&dcId=63
At the moment...its the best of the WWII air combat simulators available anywhere. The graphics aren't as fancy as the new console version ...largely because IL-2 is several years old now. But with the various updates to flight models, graphics, and so forth its still an incredible game. Having around 250 flyables (fighter, bomber, dive bomber, attack/strafer, etc.) doesn't hurt either :)
I tried that game but after chasing a fighter for 20 minutes and finally running out of ammo without shooting him down I sorta gave up on it. Aces over Europe was a lot easier from what I can recall. Wings of Fury even easier!!! :D
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Yep...this IL-2: http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Info.aspx?pId=5163&tab=download&dcId=63
At the moment...its the best of the WWII air combat simulators available anywhere. The graphics aren't as fancy as the new console version ...largely because IL-2 is several years old now. But with the various updates to flight models, graphics, and so forth its still an incredible game. Having around 250 flyables (fighter, bomber, dive bomber, attack/strafer, etc.) doesn't hurt either :)
I tried that game but after chasing a fighter for 20 minutes and finally running out of ammo without shooting him down I sorta gave up on it. Aces over Europe was a lot easier from what I can recall. Wings of Fury even easier!!! :D
Yeah then IL-2 isn't really the sort of game meant for you :) No offense intended either. Not everyone is into the simulation aspect but IL-2 is a truly great WWII air combat simulator. Real techniques and tactics work pretty much down to the hard numbers. Although the 20 minutes of chasing and the running out of ammo is something that eventually you can train yourself out of. Its not a game that you can pick up and blast stuff in a few minutes. I was very hesitant to try it out because of that actually...but I ended up being hooked.
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Cure to running out of ammo (without putting unlimited ammo):
Take care in aiming your shots
It's harder when you don't have a little reticule showing you where to shoot too
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Cure to running out of ammo (without putting unlimited ammo):
Take care in aiming your shots
It's harder when you don't have a little reticule showing you where to shoot too
I was firing in bursts, taking care to try to hit the guy. I was in an Me-109 or something. I hit him a few times, got him smoking, but I never put him down. I don't think it came as any surprise to me afterwards that the tutorial recommends flying a mission where you shoot down friendly bombers first, then enemy bombers, then fighters . . .
The thing that bugs me most about that game, and most about similar games is that they don't tell you HOW to fly. Like, what are flaps and aerolerones (spl?) for? How and when I should use them. I get the impression flaps are for take-off and landing to generate more lift and reduce airspeed but the thing is the game doesn't actually TELL you that. And that annoys the hell out of me. Or if it does tell me, I didn't see it anywhere. It's like these games expect people know how to fly an airplane before they buy it. What game expects you to know how to play before you purchase? It's stupid.
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The thing that bugs me most about that game, and most about similar games is that they don't tell you HOW to fly. Like, what are flaps and aerolerones (spl?) for? How and when I should use them. I get the impression flaps are for take-off and landing to generate more lift and reduce airspeed but the thing is the game doesn't actually TELL you that. And that annoys the hell out of me. Or if it does tell me, I didn't see it anywhere. It's like these games expect people know how to fly an airplane before they buy it. What game expects you to know how to play before you purchase? It's stupid.
...There are people who don't know basic aviation terminology and aerodynamics? :nervous:
There are Training tracks in the PC version. I don't know if there are in the Console version, might be dumbed down on that regard... but yeah, simulators do tend to assume you have some basic knowledge to start with. Reading some short introduction to aerodynamics might help, else you need to learn how the dynamics work in the game and guessing things tends to lead to you losing airspeed, stalling and spinning out of control especially with console controllers I can imagine.
Perhaps someone should record the IL-2 Training tracks and upload them to Youtube or something...
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The thing that bugs me most about that game, and most about similar games is that they don't tell you HOW to fly. Like, what are flaps and aerolerones (spl?) for? How and when I should use them. I get the impression flaps are for take-off and landing to generate more lift and reduce airspeed but the thing is the game doesn't actually TELL you that. And that annoys the hell out of me. Or if it does tell me, I didn't see it anywhere. It's like these games expect people know how to fly an airplane before they buy it. What game expects you to know how to play before you purchase? It's stupid.
...There are people who don't know basic aviation terminology and aerodynamics? :nervous:
There are Training tracks in the PC version. I don't know if there are in the Console version, might be dumbed down on that regard... but yeah, simulators do tend to assume you have some basic knowledge to start with. Reading some short introduction to aerodynamics might help, else you need to learn how the dynamics work in the game and guessing things tends to lead to you losing airspeed, stalling and spinning out of control especially with console controllers I can imagine.
Perhaps someone should record the IL-2 Training tracks and upload them to Youtube or something...
I've heard the terms, I have some idea as to how it works but I've never actually read up on the thing. And I certainly shouldn't have to read a non-game source to play a certain game.
I have IL-2 Forgotten Battles. I don't know if the training things are on there. I get the impression it's a standalone expansion not the original game. I mean really, it takes like 1 page of the manual to lay these things out to the player. What are the advantages for example to using the rudder to turn, as opposed to banking and "climbing". When to use some things, when to use others.
When I first started the game I couldn't even get off the ground because my plane kept veering left and cartwheeling. Apparently I need to compensate for the spin of the prop with the rudder. Like, that should be basic information for the player. Shouldn't have to email my brother to learn the answer (he's where I got the game as he had two copies for whatever reason). And I certainly shouldn't have to waste time on the internet trying to google answers.
If anything a lack of this kind of critical information makes these games less accessible to new players. If I were a brand new player I probably would have just said screw it and taken the thing back to the store (not that I can take back PC games mind you, stupid stores).
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I've heard the terms, I have some idea as to how it works but I've never actually read up on the thing. And I certainly shouldn't have to read a non-game source to play a certain game.
I have IL-2 Forgotten Battles. I don't know if the training things are on there. I get the impression it's a standalone expansion not the original game. I mean really, it takes like 1 page of the manual to lay these things out to the player. What are the advantages for example to using the rudder to turn, as opposed to banking and "climbing". When to use some things, when to use others.
When I first started the game I couldn't even get off the ground because my plane kept veering left and cartwheeling. Apparently I need to compensate for the spin of the prop with the rudder. Like, that should be basic information for the player. Shouldn't have to email my brother to learn the answer (he's where I got the game as he had two copies for whatever reason). And I certainly shouldn't have to waste time on the internet trying to google answers.
As far as I recall, the training tracks were included in the Forgotten Battles release of the game. If I'm wrong, my bad.
If they were available (as I recall... can't bother to install just FB to check) they do demonstrate this kind of things. Including the breakdown of flight control into basic components - thrust, pitch, roll and yaw. And the takeoff track did tell you to use rudder to compensate for the torque induced yaw - but failed to mention that this becomes much easier if you lock the tail wheel, since the aircraft will then travel straight forward much easier as logn as the tail wheel is on the ground.
If anything a lack of this kind of critical information makes these games less accessible to new players. If I were a brand new player I probably would have just said screw it and taken the thing back to the store (not that I can take back PC games mind you, stupid stores).
Well, what can I say. Take a closer look on the big button on the main menu that says "Training"... There are flaws on the training tracks for sure, for example the inclinometre isn't working correctly on the tracks so even though the turns are actually coordinated, the ball is not on the center.
I don't know if these tracks or comparative versions are available on the Birds of Prey though. If they aren't, I agree that this sort of information should be included.
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I picked up on Il-2 (computer version) pretty easily...
Then again, I've been flying flight sims since elementary school... or before then even.
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The Training Tracks were included with the game and are actually quite useful. I just jumped in and learned on my own. Unlike other games IL-2 and other simulators are games where you can actually read primary source documentation and apply it almost directly into the game. So background knowledge either develops because of the game or the game develops the need for background knowledge.
They do assume that you know something about flight given that you've just bought a WWII flight simulator.
I do have a bit of trouble identifying here as I knew what the flaps, ailerons and elevators were for at age 4. That may be a bit unusual I suppose :)
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<Thaeris gives IceFire mad props.>
:yes: :yes: :yes:
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I do have a bit of trouble identifying here as I knew what the flaps, ailerons and elevators were for at age 4. That may be a bit unusual I suppose :)
I looked at planes too as a child but I just looked at the pictures. I didn't care how they worked :P
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Indeed. :p
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I do have a bit of trouble identifying here as I knew what the flaps, ailerons and elevators were for at age 4. That may be a bit unusual I suppose :)
I looked at planes too as a child but I just looked at the pictures. I didn't care how they worked :P
What on earth is wrong with you? :D
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I looked at planes too as a child but I just looked at the pictures. I didn't care how they worked :P
What on earth is wrong with you? :D
For example, I only just learned yesterday, that in a lot of WW1 planes the entire engine spun around. Or at least, the pistons did to facilitate air cooling. That's crazy.
-And speaking of www1, the Red Baron is now on Gog.com
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I was into flight sims from around the age of 4 too. :D
A lot of flight sims require hours, or even months, of practice, especially if you want to fly according to the rules / how real pilots fly. Back in June I finally picked up Falcon 4.0 Allied Force, and I have yet to really knuckle down and learn what all the switches do. For me it's a big step up from Lock-On Modern Air Combat (mainly because I played a couple of the older Flanker sims that Eagle Dynamics also developed, which have similar controls to Lock-On). Printing out the huge manual you get on the CD seems like a chore in itself, not to mention a bit, well, environmentally wrong (who's gonna save the trees, man?? :blah:). Once I get up to speed on it and figure out how multiplayer is meant to be set up I might ask Mika for a coop dogfight or something.
Part of the enjoyment that I get from flight sims is the satisfaction of having flown according to the flight plan and landed safely, which is even greater if the aircraft has damage and stuff like that. But sometimes just doing aerobatics and screwing around is fun too, like in the first Flight Unlimited sim, which had an emphasis on performing aerobatic manoeuvers. Stressing out the the Sukhoi Su-31 until it disintegrated gave me many moments of fun.
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The only simulator I played for any significant amount of time was MS Flight Sim '97, and that largely consisted of me pulling maneuvers in cities that would probably see me arrested as a terrorist-in-training today. :p
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Damn you guys. Now I really want to get back into IL-2 again, but I don't have the time. :p
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For you people struggling
The seminal "How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky" by Dan "Crash" Crenshaw
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~fta/acmintro.htm
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The IL-2 series (for the PC) is great, but my main 2 gripes are (1) the way kills get allocated (it sometimes seems unfair IMO) and (2) the sometimes confusing radio chatter. I'd prefer something like the radio chatter in European Air War (got to look into the mods for that one day, if I ever find the CD for it).