Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Fury on December 02, 2009, 01:38:52 am
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War in Heaven Gameplay Trailer (http://www.mediafire.com/?njdlzjjwqmt)
This trailer shows off 10 minutes worth of gameplay in one of the early missions of War in Heaven. This mission is still work in progress and Battuta did express concern over the dialogue, but doesn't have the time to work on it due to being occupied by real life at the moment. Personally I feel the music is a bit too low on volume, which is totally my fault (in-game volume settings). Video quality is not particularly good, but should be decent enough for this purpose. Some staffers did mention audio gets out of sync, but I didn't notice any when I played it in VLC, so might be a player issue... For all its flaws, I hope you will still enjoy this small video I did. I'll try better next time. :p
Edit: Lower-quality YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpF1pnb1qXc) now available as well.
Edit 2: HerraTohtori has also posted a little gameplay snippet (http://www.mediafire.com/?mjtoqg3rmz0), showing off a truly skilled engagement with a Slammer heavy suppression missile. Youtube-version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syFrPFvTvWg&fmt=22) also available at lower quality.
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This is a straight-up grab of gameplay from one of our missions, and while it's technically 'work in progress', it gives you a good idea of what the final product will look like. We've got lots more like it; this mission is one of our smaller ones.
One thing Fury didn't mention is that this trailer, in my opinion, shows off some great custom AI - not just on the fighters, but the flak turrets on the GTVA ships, which just look gorgeous.
This isn't a particularly heavily produced product, so don't expect God's own video quality or epic staged choreography, but there are some pretty great glimpses of the skybox as well as some sweet combat. Wish we could show more from later missions...
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:eek2:
Jesus Christ and Allah! :lol:
Amazing work :yes: Mission chatter, scripting, music, choreography, it's something I could only dream of! Instant epic.
I haven't downloaded the BP custom AI Dragon posted, so this was my first glimpse of it. Stunning. What difficulty level are we talking about here?
The way those Persei were evading... reminded me of Dragons. That's how those fighters should be flown...
Keep it up, guys!
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Personally I would have preferred a shorter but much more high quality trailer.
I liked the music, it was kinda familiar to me, yet I can't seem to remember where I heard that tone before.
Looking forward to this new chapter :yes:
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Damnit.... Once the Trailer is finished downloading I have to head out to university.
And there I have to sit through four hours of (mostly) boredom, being tormented by the knowledge that the trailer is sitting back here on my harddrive waiting to be watched.... :hopping:
Well... see you in four hours and 10 minutes to comment on the video itself. :sigh:
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Couldn't resit dling this in my luchbreak...
and it was worth it... :yes:
I am so looking foward to this...
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Dogfighting is going to be fun.
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Pilot speaking from experience here: Have your finger on the Z key.
/me heads back to the Ready Room.
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If you're flying the Uriel? ;7
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I'm so looking forward to this now.
And finally! A support ship that repairs hull! I've waited forever to see that in action!
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If you're flying the Uriel? ;7
It'll be cooler, but in general, it's no use getting into a dogfight on match speed when you can decelerate and let him fill your gunsight, in any ship. :)
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Will there also be a youtube version of that trailer. 'Cause it doesn't work at all for me. Looks more like a series photos than a film. :nervous:
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http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
http://smplayer.sourceforge.net/
http://cccp-project.net/
Take your pick and it should play fine.
I haven't downloaded the BP custom AI Dragon posted, so this was my first glimpse of it. Stunning. What difficulty level are we talking about here?
The AI was posted by me. :p
The trailer was played on medium difficulty. Don't worry, easy and very easy difficulties still have penalties for hostile ships. Though the penalties are much reduced from retail values.
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You guys have done amazing things with FSO. BP's really flowered into something wonderful.
I particularly love the characterisation. I can see the dialogue is still a little rough around the edges, but everyone felt immediately human and distinct on a level that's frankly well above most commercial games. This community is blessed.
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Thank you. That means a lot coming from you. :)
The flirtation at the end is a bit on-the-nose. There's one line in particular I'd cut.
So many beautiful things in that trailer, Fury. There was one gorgeous shot where you panned in past the Indus and Churchill, over to the AWACS, which was firing turret broadsides. In the background there was an Aeolus just lighting up space with flak. Pure poetry.
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The flirtation at the end is a bit on-the-nose. There's one line in particular I'd cut.
More like going a bit over the top, now that you mentioned it. Perhaps a lot more subtlety will be good.
That aside, though, I think the trailer was great. It showed us what's changed since Darius' video of the UED Solaris in action (and a LOT has changed), and what we can expect from the final release.
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That was very impressive. I can hardly wait to play it myself.
But if I may make a little suggestion, keep the lines on screen longer. I had problems reading fast enough and had to pause several times to read them completely.
What was that with Uncle? Are they really relatives and if yes, shouldn't Noemi still refer to that person with either rank or name in a combat situation (considering their behaviour I assume she is a rookie and the "uncle" someone longer in the military and of higher rank)?
And I'd like to know something about the Luna incident, if you are willing to talk about it. Was Luna a military base or did the GTVA really bombard a civilian colony prior to that mission?
With all the justificaitons that were given for the GTVA starting this war and saying that it was neccesary for them, I never expected them to go this far either way. That makes me want to fly for the UEF even more!
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You'll find out when you play it!
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Uploaded to YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpF1pnb1qXc) :)
Still being processed, so hopefully video quality should improve.
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If you're flying the Uriel? ;7
It'll be cooler, but in general, it's no use getting into a dogfight on match speed when you can decelerate and let him fill your gunsight, in any ship. :)
I was more referring to simply blasting backwards in reverse and forcing the enemy to overshoot. :P
Unless the reverse thrusters were taken off the Uriel. ;)
Thank you. That means a lot coming from you. :)
The flirtation at the end is a bit on-the-nose. There's one line in particular I'd cut.
I thought that was strangely pretty funny.
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The Uriel reverse maneuver is inded tres uber.
In this video the mission uses Total War, the same music you heard in Battle of Neptune, but I think that's just a placeholder.
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The AI was posted by me. :p
Oops. Apologies. :nervous:
Medium?! Are you serious? Is the new AI that good? :shaking:
Downloading, first chance I get.... ;7
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You can try the AI yourself. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=66477.0
Download the zip, read notes.txt and play the three missions included.
Edit: In those three mission capital ships do not use custom AI, only fighters and bombers do. Use with care in capships.
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I'm so looking forward to this now.
And finally! A support ship that repairs hull! I've waited forever to see that in action!
Procyon Insurgency had a support ship repairing hull
Bloody mediafire is being sluggish.
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Yeah, the new AI are really worth the play. I played the both whole FS campaigns with it and it rocks.
I don't know who is the guy who played in this trailer, but he really sucks ! :lol: no offense of course.
For the mission itself, nothing to say. It's just great, realistic, and appealing. And for the ships and weapons, I can say it's gonna be one of the greatest mod ever :D
Keep up the good work (and learn how to fly a fighter XD)
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Keep up the good work (and learn how to fly a fighter XD)
Three kills in seven minutes on Medium. :lol:
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The flirtation at the end is a bit on-the-nose. There's one line in particular I'd cut.
More like going a bit over the top, now that you mentioned it. Perhaps a lot more subtlety will be good.
That aside, though, I think the trailer was great. It showed us what's changed since Darius' video of the UED Solaris in action (and a LOT has changed), and what we can expect from the final release.
I don't know, I thought that moment was funny (doubly so if it's Les Yay, which the dialogue suggests it might be). A little humor never hurt anyone.
One thing that bugs me is the use of a new crosshair without replacing any other parts of the HUD. It's rather jarring. Otherwise, I really like it, especially the new music. I've heard some people complain about the "blue puke" weapon but I think it's spectacular.
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The scatter flak is epic awsm.
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The scatter flak has actually been growing on me since Fury implemented it.
The crosshair is also Fury's touch. We have a custom interface for menus and all, and it's really gorgeous, but not a custom HUD yet.
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I just watched it at home, I have to rectify, seems like the issues with the quality I was complaining about before were only caused by the player I was using at work, so..great vid guys, this chapter is gonna kick some ass.
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Looks spectacular indeed. Bit heavy on the dialouge side in the thick of battle though.
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Looks spectacular indeed. Bit heavy on the dialouge side in the thick of battle though.
Yeah, I had to pause every few seconds to read the messages. Unless we have full VA on this, we'll have to read all the messages after the battle, in the logs :(
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Lesbian pilots :)
I approve.
On serious topic lines, I can see from just that short pre-polished mission that it has classic Darius blue planet feel. I can also see why VA would be a large undertaking.
I'd still like to put myself forward for a 'TEV' role though eventually.
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Lesbian pilots :)
I approve.
:lol:
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Looks incredibly awesome. The music is incredible, the dialogue is top notch.
The only nitpick I have is that I'm not entirely fond of the Vulcan sound effect. It just seems too muffled compared to everything else.
Other than that, this trailer is absolute, completely EPIC WIN, with a large heaping of awesomesauce on the side. Now hurry up and finish it!
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Lesbian pilots :)
I approve.
:lol:
I'm probably alone when I say that I could have done without the lesbians
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There will be no gratuitous lesbians.
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lol
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All romantic relationships so far presented in FS campaigns are purely gratitous to the greater story. :P
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So far. :)
(though arguably untrue given that part of Sam's decision to reach the Vishnans had to do with his love of Eriana)
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Which is itself arguably untrue since that wasn't presented well, if it was presented at all. I certainly don't remember that bit. :P
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You probably caught it your first time through.
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As others have said, War in Heaven looks to be made of win if we can expect this kind of action in every mission. The flak effects in particular had me drooling. Also, dialogue is excellent. A few improvements could be made here and there, naturally, but I loved the combat chatter. Really effective in making the pilots sound more human.
I do have one question: "Desperta Ferro". Why that particular phrase for a battle cry? I'm not criticizing, I'm just curious.
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You probably caught it your first time through.
No, I more or less viewed everything to do with Eriana as its own little cul-de-sac from the main story. Not purposeless, it let us learn about our protagonist, but not necessarily relevant either.
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Lesbian pilots :)
I approve.
:lol:
I'm probably alone when I say that I could have done without the lesbians
If that's actually the case, I'll agree with you, Spoon.
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Yeah, I'm with you there as well, and I mean, they're in the same frakking squadron. Goes to show you how bloody poorly the UEF maintain discipline. :P
What was that with Uncle? Are they really relatives and if yes, shouldn't Noemi still refer to that person with either rank or name in a combat situation (considering their behaviour I assume she is a rookie and the "uncle" someone longer in the military and of higher rank)?
Yeah, I've made this point before as well, again, the UEF is a bloody peace-keeping force, they have no experience in system wide warfare, poor standards of discipline for a military (in some cases), and they basically have to mobilize the entire of Sol to save themselves from being overrun in a day. Discipline isn't one of their priorities (which in a real military, will end up correlating with bad things down the line.)
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Yeah, I've made this point before as well, again, the UEF is a bloody peace-keeping force, they have no experience in system wide warfare, poor standards of discipline for a military (in some cases), and they basically have to mobilize the entire of Sol to save themselves from being overrun in a day. Discipline isn't one of their priorities (which in a real military, will end up correlating with bad things down the line.)
Odd as it sounds, I think this might be more sane then we imagine. A fightercraft represents a comparatively very large amount of power. One FS bomber is capable of carrying in its secondary bays more raw destructive power than has been available over the course of most of humanity's wars. A FS fightercraft has an awesome amount of power, enough to level cities. A single Apollo would have sufficed to level Troy, destroy Caeser's legions, shatter the Golden Horde, and end both of the World Wars...and it could do all this with a single load of secondaries. I am not at all exaggerating here.
You do not want to antagonize someone who has that kind of power. Draconian discipline of people who are regularly given the ability to level cities rarely helps. So as crazy as it sounds to us that the UEF allows it, we already know that you can't keep people from sleeping together despite our own rules on fraternization, and who your parents or relatives are does matter in how people assess you. The best thing we can do today is discipline the parties involved if it becomes a problem with their jobs; we forbid but they do it anyways and perhaps always will. Maybe the UEF has skipped the intermediate step of forbidding and moved straight to the "we don't care but there will disciplinary action if it causes problems" one.
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Having a lesbian player-character is a pretty bold move. There's a lot that could go wrong if it's done poorly, but I think it's in good hands. Would anyone be complaining if what's-her-face was a man? There's nothing to stop a gay romance from being just as meaningful as a straight one.
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Yeah, I've made this point before as well, again, the UEF is a bloody peace-keeping force, they have no experience in system wide warfare, poor standards of discipline for a military (in some cases), and they basically have to mobilize the entire of Sol to save themselves from being overrun in a day. Discipline isn't one of their priorities (which in a real military, will end up correlating with bad things down the line.)
Odd as it sounds, I think this might be more sane then we imagine. A fightercraft represents a comparatively very large amount of power. One FS bomber is capable of carrying in its secondary bays more raw destructive power than has been available over the course of most of humanity's wars. A FS fightercraft has an awesome amount of power, enough to level cities. A single Apollo would have sufficed to level Troy, destroy Caeser's legions, shatter the Golden Horde, and end both of the World Wars...and it could do all this with a single load of secondaries. I am not at all exaggerating here.
You do not want to antagonize someone who has that kind of power. Draconian discipline of people who are regularly given the ability to level cities rarely helps. So as crazy as it sounds to us that the UEF allows it, we already know that you can't keep people from sleeping together despite our own rules on fraternization, and who your parents or relatives are does matter in how people assess you. The best thing we can do today is discipline the parties involved if it becomes a problem with their jobs; we forbid but they do it anyways and perhaps always will. Maybe the UEF has skipped the intermediate step of forbidding and moved straight to the "we don't care but there will disciplinary action if it causes problems" one.
Well I guess you have to put it into context first, though I see what you're saying. In the realm of 27th Century space combat, one fightercraft could be viewed as a comparatively small piece of the puzzle, to be reap maximum reward from such an asset, in must be used in conjunction effectively with the rest of one's military. Sure, a single Uriel, unopposed, could possibly level the entire world today as we know it, but in the 27th Century, this is nothing in comparison to the Solaris Class Destroyers, and whatnot.
It's not that you want to antagonize your pilots, but without a discipline system that upholds esprit-de-corps and maintains an effective fighting unit, your "squadron", is going to turn into sixteen individuals in expensive deathtraps fast. Fair enough, if it's not a problem, don't worry, but when you're talking about a Squadron on the frontline, this is a problem. You cannot have pilots favouring one another in combat, and giving each other preferential treatment when something far greater than their lives is at stake. Aircrew jobs by nature are hard enough, giving our pilots even tougher decisions in combat is going to drain an individual's morale ("Should I assist the pilot I have sexual relationship with, or the other pilot I don't have a sexual relationship with.") As much as the media likes to portray Fighter Pilots as cowboys, they're not. Fighter Pilots are expensive to train, thus, you want to squeeze maximum benefit out of each and every one of them, a loose disciplinary system creates an environment lacking esprit-de-corps, individuals who can do a half-assed job and get away with it, and a Squadron in which the Chain-Of-Command is not followed. All of these are negative on the frontline. You can't have a "military", in which people can do whatever the hell they want, because that's not how it works when the finger hits the trigger.
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Awesome video. Can't wait to play!
What does the Maul do? I only saw a few hits with it, and it didn't seem to do much, which makes me think disrupter-type weapon. Accurate assumption?
Seeing as I'll most likely have my own computer (not a family one) and equipment, can I volunteer for the inevitable VA drive?
EDIT: Exclamation marks and question marks are not interchangable.
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I'm not speaking for the rest of the team here, but personally, I don't think VA-ing is going to be a priority anytime soon. :P
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But it's inevitable. :P You can't NOT VA this thing
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That's true... Now... Where to find two women to voice Simms/Laporte. :P
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Dilmah, as a team member, I wish you would not make long posts that make it evident you have not played the campaign. *sigh*
The points you're worrying about are tackled pretty explicitly in the story.
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I wasn't talking about how it was handled in the campaign, but the issue in general. I mean, if every boy and girl in the UEF was getting more sex than the stereotypical American teenager, we wouldn't have a campaign to tell, would we? :P
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However strange it was to see the ships do twitch-turns and everything devolve into a chatoic brawl, the Hecate fighting (effectively!) with it's side and ass beam cannons is very nice to watch. I've always considered that ass-turret worthless, but you managed to find a positioning where it can actually work in combination with its other beams. :yes:
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Well I guess you have to put it into context first, though I see what you're saying. In the realm of 27th Century space combat, one fightercraft could be viewed as a comparatively small piece of the puzzle, to be reap maximum reward from such an asset, in must be used in conjunction effectively with the rest of one's military. Sure, a single Uriel, unopposed, could possibly level the entire world today as we know it, but in the 27th Century, this is nothing in comparison to the Solaris Class Destroyers, and whatnot.
A single Uriel could still level in the entire world in 27th Century. A 5000-megaton Harbinger's environmental effects remain unchanged; one significant FS bomb is enough to wipe out a city, a large one could take out an entire seaboard of the US, and we've got no evidence a city has gotten massively tougher by FS-time. In our own lifetime we've actually seen the reverse take place as we've moved away from stone as a building material.
Pissing off your pilots carries a great deal of danger in the FreeSpace setting. There are too many of them and they are called on to use their weapons in situations too fluid to tightly control it the way we do modern nuclear weapons, yet they wield more destructive power than the nuclear arsenals of modern nations. Even if they only launch a single missile, that's still going to be several kilotons of raw destructive power at the least. That'll take down a few blocks minimum, I don't care what your building materials are, they're civilian buildings.
It's not that you want to antagonize your pilots, but without a discipline system that upholds esprit-de-corps and maintains an effective fighting unit, your "squadron", is going to turn into sixteen individuals in expensive deathtraps fast. Fair enough, if it's not a problem, don't worry, but when you're talking about a Squadron on the frontline, this is a problem. You cannot have pilots favouring one another in combat, and giving each other preferential treatment when something far greater than their lives is at stake. Aircrew jobs by nature are hard enough, giving our pilots even tougher decisions in combat is going to drain an individual's morale ("Should I assist the pilot I have sexual relationship with, or the other pilot I don't have a sexual relationship with.") As much as the media likes to portray Fighter Pilots as cowboys, they're not. Fighter Pilots are expensive to train, thus, you want to squeeze maximum benefit out of each and every one of them, a loose disciplinary system creates an environment lacking esprit-de-corps, individuals who can do a half-assed job and get away with it, and a Squadron in which the Chain-Of-Command is not followed. All of these are negative on the frontline. You can't have a "military", in which people can do whatever the hell they want, because that's not how it works when the finger hits the trigger.
Sparta and the Theban Sacred Band would both like to discuss your assumptions with you. We're clever monkeys, we humans, and we've worked out how to make such relationships work for us in building the unit up, or at least kept them from causing problems, before. Similarly, your comment about loose discipline creating a lack of espirt-de-corps does not follow; it's possible for a unit to have plenty of elan but no discipline.
Also, I think you willfully ignored my point that we can't stop this kind of behavior now even in well-disciplined militaries, yet as whole it does not do great damage to the the warfighting efficency of the units involved; we pounce on it because it could but in the end we're fighting a losing battle as long as our soldiers aren't robots. As long as real discipline, taking orders and carrying them out, is maintained, what does it matter who screws who? If the UEF can train its people to handle that sort of environment, which is most likely quite possible, then more power to them; they're probably better off for it than the modern setup.
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A single Uriel could still level in the entire world in 27th Century. A 5000-megaton Harbinger's environmental effects remain unchanged; one significant FS bomb is enough to wipe out a city, a large one could take out an entire seaboard of the US, and we've got no evidence a city has gotten massively tougher by FS-time. In our own lifetime we've actually seen the reverse take place as we've moved away from stone as a building material.
Pissing off your pilots carries a great deal of danger in the FreeSpace setting. There are too many of them and they are called on to use their weapons in situations too fluid to tightly control it the way we do modern nuclear weapons, yet they wield more destructive power than the nuclear arsenals of modern nations. Even if they only launch a single missile, that's still going to be several kilotons of raw destructive power at the least. That'll take down a few blocks minimum, I don't care what your building materials are, they're civilian buildings.
That's fair enough, but these craft are mostly employed in situations where such an event is unlikely to take place. And fair enough, they have the potential to level something important, but who's to say these guys are actually going to do such a thing? They don't recruit the closest person they see for aircrew, the selection process is quite rigorous in nature, and if someone can't take the stress of combat, they're most likely going to fail the recruitment process. Combat is stressful, so we recruit people who can handle it, and employ strategies to deal with Combat Stress (Units being rotated from the front-lines every 30 days etc.) And besides, psychological support is a must on the frontlines, and I'd imagine it'd be there in spades by the 27th Century. Someone getting pissed off enough to level a planet should not happen when we're talking about people who've been picked because they can survive this kind of stuff (among many other things).
Sparta and the Theban Sacred Band would both like to discuss your assumptions with you. We're clever monkeys, we humans, and we've worked out how to make such relationships work for us in building the unit up, or at least kept them from causing problems, before. Similarly, your comment about loose discipline creating a lack of espirt-de-corps does not follow; it's possible for a unit to have plenty of elan but no discipline.
Well with the TSB, do we know if lovers favoured one another over the rest of their unit? It may have been their individual ability as soldiers which made them effective, rather than their unit cohesion, the latter being essential in modern warfare. Esprit-de-corps is a small part, but it is one of the aims of discipline in the military, I mean, the stereotypical Marine doesn't shout OORAH because his platoon is a bunch of partyboys, discipline helps foster the pride of a professional unit and maintain that professional status.
Also, I think you willfully ignored my point that we can't stop this kind of behavior now even in well-disciplined militaries, yet as whole it does not do great damage to the the warfighting efficency of the units involved; we pounce on it because it could but in the end we're fighting a losing battle as long as our soldiers aren't robots. As long as real discipline, taking orders and carrying them out, is maintained, what does it matter who screws who? If the UEF can train its people to handle that sort of environment, which is most likely quite possible, then more power to them; they're probably better off for it than the modern setup.
Oh sorry, I didn't "willfully ignore" it as such, but when you take the hard-line in the military, at least it acts as a deterrent for that kind of behaviour. It's better that you discourage that kind of behaviour rather than condone it, in my opinion. Well it's not the physical act that's the issue here (although it can be an issue on the frontlines where no contraception is available), but the feelings that go with it. Those feelings of attachment or lust, love, and whatnot, have the power to interrupt the real discipline. It's situations like where the pilot has to act on his own initiative, (sorry for self quote)
"Should I assist the pilot I have sexual relationship with, or the other pilot I don't have a sexual relationship with."
You have the notion to protect the one you're intimate with, rather than the most logical action. So the UEF can train its people to **** one another, but lose all feelings of attachment in battle? Fair enough, that may be possible, but in combat learned behaviour gives way to instinct, and you have the potential of all that biting you in the ass.
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The crosshair is also Fury's touch. We have a custom interface for menus and all, and it's really gorgeous, but not a custom HUD yet.
The crosshair was put there by The E.
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I shoulda known!
This ongoing discipline debate is made more complex since the three main UEF military organs take very different approaches to the issue of pilot psychology.
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Yeah, I'm sure after all is said and done in the world of the UEF, they'll create a single body governing Officer and Enlisted Psychology stance, after all, they're probably going to notice what three differing stances is doing. TBH, I wasn't really thinking about the UEF intricately on the issue of the discipline we've been debating, more no discipline v. discipline. Though I'm going right off the bat that UEF Military Discipline is lacking in the WiH timeline, since Laporte refers to Simms as Simms, rather than Ma'am, disregarding the fact Simms outranks her, in fact, I don't think Sir/Ma'am is used that much in WiH. (In my memory, I've only played most missions around 5 times, and most of them have undergone a fair bit of revision.)
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With regards to "pissed off pilots", I think someone who has been whipped into a vengeful rage wouldn't be able to even get into his fighter at all. They're not like cars; you can't just jump into a starfighter and fly away (consider the long and detailed set of checks and procedures undertaken before launching a real-life aircraft; a spacecraft would be even more complex). The crewmen and officers aboard ships live in very close proximity and become extremely familiar with one another; everyone will know if someone seems a little "off". Then that someone will be grounded until the brass is 110% sure the problem is corrected. Also, Command has demonstrated the ability to remotely lock, unlock, arm, and disarm pilots' weapons remotely. By the time your (carefully vetted and psychologically tested) pilot somehow got to the point of committing mass murder because Command punished him for fraternizing with a superior, Command would be able to stop his killing spree with the push of a button.
The risk (which is smaller than NGTM-1R thinks) does not justify lax discipline and officers having extremely unprofessional relationships with each other. This sort of behavior threatens the integrity and loyalty of officers, makes them less concerned with their mission, and reduces their effectiveness in the field. It's bad. Hell, many of these rules exist to prevent such dangerous emotional conflicts from happening in the first place. Soldiers and officers simply can't be allowed to behave like "normal" people. The environment they live and work in and the job they do makes it a horrible idea. Strong discipline is absolutely required for a decent military.
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Drawing too many conclusions from one line of dialogue is not likely to be healthy, folks. The campaign deals with these issues in some depth.
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Just a heads up for those who for some reason were unable to play the mp4 file smoothly, it would seem the youtube-video quality has improved at least to a point it is watchable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpF1pnb1qXc
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That's fair enough, but these craft are mostly employed in situations where such an event is unlikely to take place. And fair enough, they have the potential to level something important, but who's to say these guys are actually going to do such a thing? They don't recruit the closest person they see for aircrew, the selection process is quite rigorous in nature, and if someone can't take the stress of combat, they're most likely going to fail the recruitment process. Combat is stressful, so we recruit people who can handle it, and employ strategies to deal with Combat Stress (Units being rotated from the front-lines every 30 days etc.) And besides, psychological support is a must on the frontlines, and I'd imagine it'd be there in spades by the 27th Century. Someone getting pissed off enough to level a planet should not happen when we're talking about people who've been picked because they can survive this kind of stuff (among many other things).
And yet it remains true that we cannot still and may never be able to reliably predict the behavior of a human being in combat, or tell if he's lying reliably. There is a saying about spies that would hold equally true to anyone who has gone off the deep end; all it takes is the will to do nothing until the right moment. There's a reason why modern nuclear weapons procedures rely on the two-man rule. Granting that kind of power to one person is considered far too dangerous.
Incidentally, this might explain why FS bombers are so incredibly huge; they have their own two-man rule or possibly a dedicated security guy to validate their launches. (Lord knows they've the room for that.)
Well with the TSB, do we know if lovers favoured one another over the rest of their unit? It may have been their individual ability as soldiers which made them effective, rather than their unit cohesion, the latter being essential in modern warfare. Esprit-de-corps is a small part, but it is one of the aims of discipline in the military, I mean, the stereotypical Marine doesn't shout OORAH because his platoon is a bunch of partyboys, discipline helps foster the pride of a professional unit and maintain that professional status.
The TSB was considered effective in its time because of its unit cohesion; in simple terms, it never broke, you had to wipe it out or force its commander to pull it back. Question answered.
Also, OORAH is more of a Rangers thing.
Oh sorry, I didn't "willfully ignore" it as such, but when you take the hard-line in the military, at least it acts as a deterrent for that kind of behaviour. It's better that you discourage that kind of behaviour rather than condone it, in my opinion. Well it's not the physical act that's the issue here (although it can be an issue on the frontlines where no contraception is available), but the feelings that go with it. Those feelings of attachment or lust, love, and whatnot, have the power to interrupt the real discipline. It's situations like where the pilot has to act on his own initiative, (sorry for self quote)
Any regulation that is issued and regularly disobeyed is a threat to discipline and stability in a unit.
You have the notion to protect the one you're intimate with, rather than the most logical action. So the UEF can train its people to **** one another, but lose all feelings of attachment in battle? Fair enough, that may be possible, but in combat learned behaviour gives way to instinct, and you have the potential of all that biting you in the ass.
No, but you can make it work for you, as the TSB did. Assign them to the same wing pair. You can build on existing relationships in this way. Armies in the past have recruited on a territorial basis for the same reason.
With regards to "pissed off pilots", I think someone who has been whipped into a vengeful rage wouldn't be able to even get into his fighter at all. They're not like cars; you can't just jump into a starfighter and fly away (consider the long and detailed set of checks and procedures undertaken before launching a real-life aircraft; a spacecraft would be even more complex). The crewmen and officers aboard ships live in very close proximity and become extremely familiar with one another; everyone will know if someone seems a little "off". Then that someone will be grounded until the brass is 110% sure the problem is corrected.
This is not practical to keeping your squadron a functional combat unit. The analogous situation is WW2, where the original rules were two years after a malarial attack you couldn't fly. They cut it to two months fast but it wasn't good enough to keep units in combat. They had to release authority to return to duty status to the flight surgeon. The same thing happened with combat fatigue.
In a unit in combat, taking losses, under enormous stress, you can't do this. Everyone will seem a little off, or a whole hell of a lot off. Nobody's going to behave normally. Some people simply fight angry to boot. That's how they're wired. You simply can't afford detailed pyschological screening when there are missions to fly and targets to kill. You'll watch your people and pull the ones who can't handle it if you can, but the system is not and cannot be perfect, and the dangers are greater than ever.
Also I challenge your "in close proximity" considering the destroyers and other ships we've seen have more than enough space aboard to give every crew member an individual cabin, never mind crew as lofty as officer flight crew.
And as I said, the only thing it takes to slip through...is to do nothing. Anyone can do nothing.
Also, Command has demonstrated the ability to remotely lock, unlock, arm, and disarm pilots' weapons remotely. By the time your (carefully vetted and psychologically tested) pilot somehow got to the point of committing mass murder because Command punished him for fraternizing with a superior, Command would be able to stop his killing spree with the push of a button.
This.
This. Is utter madness.
Nobody will ever build such a capablity that the pilot cannot themselves lock out or override. The danger of an enemy getting ahold of it is much, much too great.
The risk (which is smaller than NGTM-1R thinks) does not justify lax discipline and officers having extremely unprofessional relationships with each other. This sort of behavior threatens the integrity and loyalty of officers, makes them less concerned with their mission, and reduces their effectiveness in the field. It's bad. Hell, many of these rules exist to prevent such dangerous emotional conflicts from happening in the first place. Soldiers and officers simply can't be allowed to behave like "normal" people. The environment they live and work in and the job they do makes it a horrible idea. Strong discipline is absolutely required for a decent military.
See all my other obversations, and note that your idea of a breach of discipline and my idea of a breach of discipline are very different things. As long as you can make people people obey the regs and take orders and carry them out efficently, discipline is being maintained. If the regs don't happen to contain fraternization rules in the same form as ours...tough **** for you, I guess.
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This.
This. Is utter madness.
Nobody will ever build such a capablity that the pilot cannot themselves lock out or override. The danger of an enemy getting ahold of it is much, much too great.
Except that Command has built in just such a capability! In fact they used it in Proving Grounds to cripple your weapons remotely.
See all my other obversations, and note that your idea of a breach of discipline and my idea of a breach of discipline are very different things. As long as you can make people people obey the regs and take orders and carry them out efficently, discipline is being maintained. If the regs don't happen to contain fraternization rules in the same form as ours...tough **** for you, I guess.
Sexual fraternization is a breach in discipline! It creates nepotistic, emotionally charged, dangerous relationships between military personnel that destroy unit cohesion and create jealousy and conflict. As for "tough ****", you're not on the BP team and you have no creative control over the project, so you have no right to say such a thing. Don't you dare try to speak for Darius or the other BP team members (at least one of whom has already said the UEF have a serious discipline problem). Did you get all of your ideas on the military and warfare from Battlestar Galactica (which, by the way depicts a broken, tattered, and dysfunctional shell of what once was the Colonial armed forces who are allowed to act like asses and generally be sick, messed-up people because there are only 100,000 people left in the entire human race)?
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Great stuff!
The gameplay itself looks excellent. Being a newcomer to FS Open, I have to say I prefer the 3.9 'look' of flak. A single streaking tracer round that explodes rather than the original look of three exploding 'orbs', although the secondary effects are quite nice.
Also kudos for the GTVA not acting like morons and retreating their corvette and destroyer when the battle turned against them.
The new pilot and story looks great. I agree the dialog could probably be tightened a little. Maybe not quite so many F-bombs since that was a bit distracting from the rest of the battle. I'm left wondering though what happened to Samuel and the rest of the GTVA defectors. But I'm sure all that will be answered in good time.
Can't wait guys! Best of luck to the team.
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Well first thing's first, with what I've seen, or allowed/willing to divulge, the UEF seems to have a discipline problem within the junior ranks, that's not to say this is so crippling the UEF is combat ineffective, because as we've seen in the video, that's not the case.
Am really groggy at the moment (been sleeping), standby for a full response folks.
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Actually, I am curious. Does the team plan on continuing to change the character POV throughout the rest of War in Heaven and beyond? I think that's a great idea to view the story from a bunch of different perspectives myself. Seeing the battle from the GTVA perspective at Neptune for example was great, and there was some awesome dialog there.
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No, the campaign is set from one character's perspective just like AoA was. Those missions where you play on GTVA's side are Dilmah's "unofficial" non-campaign missions.
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Except that Command has built in just such a capability! In fact they used it in Proving Grounds to cripple your weapons remotely.
And I posisted the existence of a means for a pilot to override or lock out this ability, because it's really damn dangerous otherwise. There is no evidence to the contrary of this. Try again.
Sexual fraternization is a breach in discipline! It creates nepotistic, emotionally charged, dangerous relationships between military personnel that destroy unit cohesion and create jealousy and conflict.
Standard military life does pretty much the same thing, but more to the point, I've already presented evidence and scenarios that directly contradict you, and nepotism is a charge unfounded as long as we don't know what exactly the rules are. It might prohibit (in fact almost certainly does prohibit, because to do otherwise would be madness) relationships with subordinates, but not those who do not fall into your unit or who are relative equals.
As for "tough ****", you're not on the BP team and you have no creative control over the project, so you have no right to say such a thing. Don't you dare try to speak for Darius or the other BP team members (at least one of whom has already said the UEF have a serious discipline problem).
*cough*
I hate to break it to you, but I am testing for this project, and my opinion has been asked for (though admittedly my suggestions have been overruled about as often as they've been implemented). I'll also note Dilmah has been reprimanded by Battuta for presenting his view as fact, so you don't really have a leg to stand on.
That is, however, neither here nor there. I'm positing the UEF's rules and regs are different, and not necessarily bad for that difference, or at least that by 26-whatever we'll be able to overcome the problems the changes pose with improved training methods. You're throwing some kind of fit about the fact that I did this. This has nothing to do with my being or not being a part of the BP team. I'm not speaking for the local canoncity here. I don't think I managed to imply that I was, but apparently you do. That's your problem.
I'll ignore the Galactica ad-hominem just this once, and simply relate to you the rule I've heard from somebody following every cruise of the carriers based out of San Diego. "There will be at least one female aboard who ends up involved with someone per three months of deployment. Usually an officer, not enlisted." We humans are unfortunately rather fond of sex.
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As much as I like to see discussion about what little we have revealed to the public, can we please cool down a bit? It's getting too warm here.
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BTW. What's the deal with the 27th century ? I thought BP took place a few years after Capella got toasted, which happened in 2367 :confused:
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BP takes place 18 years after Capella. BP2 takes place 1.5 years after BP. That would make it 24th century however, not 27th.
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Except that Command has built in just such a capability! In fact they used it in Proving Grounds to cripple your weapons remotely.
And I posisted the existence of a means for a pilot to override or lock out this ability, because it's really damn dangerous otherwise. There is no evidence to the contrary of this. Try again.
Unless you have Gaius Baltar on your R&D team, it's really not that dangerous. Digital encryption technology is always far ahead of codebreaking technology. You can vastly increase the strength of your encryption just by adding more bits. Modern military codes are for all intents and purposes unbreakable, I imagine the same would be true in the 24th century.
Standard military life does pretty much the same thing, but more to the point, I've already presented evidence and scenarios that directly contradict you, and nepotism is a charge unfounded as long as we don't know what exactly the rules are. It might prohibit (in fact almost certainly does prohibit, because to do otherwise would be madness) relationships with subordinates, but not those who do not fall into your unit or who are relative equals.
You know, Simms and LaPorte aren't exactly equals, what with Simms being a superior officer and all. I don't really give a **** about some soldier banging someone from a totally different unit with whom he will have little or no professional interaction and will not have to rely on, but what LaPorte was doing was completely anathema to the way a military rank structure is supposed to work.
*cough*
I hate to break it to you, but I am testing for this project, and my opinion has been asked for (though admittedly my suggestions have been overruled about as often as they've been implemented). I'll also note Dilmah has been reprimanded by Battuta for presenting his view as fact, so you don't really have a leg to stand on.
Well I'm sorry I didn't see the badge (that for some mysterious reason you do not have). The way you phrased it made it seem like you were speaking for the rest of the BP team, even after one of them said something that contradicted your statement.
That is, however, neither here nor there. I'm positing the UEF's rules and regs are different, and not necessarily bad for that difference, or at least that by 26-whatever we'll be able to overcome the problems the changes pose with improved training methods. You're throwing some kind of fit about the fact that I did this. This has nothing to do with my being or not being a part of the BP team. I'm not speaking for the local canoncity here. I don't think I managed to imply that I was, but apparently you do. That's your problem.
You do know that the modern rank structure and regulations exist for a reason and are the work of people smarter than either of us laboring for centuries to increase unit discipline, right?
I'll ignore the Galactica ad-hominem just this once, and simply relate to you the rule I've heard from somebody following every cruise of the carriers based out of San Diego. "There will be at least one female aboard who ends up involved with someone per three months of deployment. Usually an officer, not enlisted." We humans are unfortunately rather fond of sex.
Who is she involved with? Are they in the same chain of command? Do they get in trouble? There aren't any specifics here.
You know, it just occured to me with the whole "angry lovelorn pilot blows up city" idea--why would pilots patrolling planets in GTVA space even need their full complement of weapons? Do you think every military aircraft doing exercises in the United States is fully armed (believe me, a fully armed B-52 or B-1B, if not quite capable of destroying a large city with its conventional payload, can destroy a significant fraction of one) and able to drop bombs at a moment's notice? Hell, keeping fully armed fighters in the air all the time outside of deep space is probably dangerous just due to the risk of one of them crashing into the ground. More heavily armed fighters would probably be kept on standby in case of an invasion.
And if someone tried to "go out with a blaze of glory" from orbit or deep space, that person would not have time to reach a planetary target before being annihilated by other ships, orbital defenses, or ground-based guns.
Oh, by the way, with the BSG thing: if there is is an actual argument aside from it, it's not an ad hominem. It's just me being annoyed at you.
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My comment spawned an interesting tangent. ;)
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Warning. Long post.
And yet it remains true that we cannot still and may never be able to reliably predict the behavior of a human being in combat, or tell if he's lying reliably. There is a saying about spies that would hold equally true to anyone who has gone off the deep end; all it takes is the will to do nothing until the right moment. There's a reason why modern nuclear weapons procedures rely on the two-man rule. Granting that kind of power to one person is considered far too dangerous.
Incidentally, this might explain why FS bombers are so incredibly huge; they have their own two-man rule or possibly a dedicated security guy to validate their launches. (Lord knows they've the room for that.)
Individuals are put under similar stress to combat situations during the course of the Pilots Course, and COMSURV. If one cannot handle the stress of being shot at, they are going to fail. As time goes by, we get better at sniffing out individuals who cannot function in combat, and weeding out those who are not 110% Pilot material. As I've said before, we take steps in the Modern Military to eliminate the risk of this happening. Besides, there's a Chain of Command to be followed if an individual has a problem, and psychological support. Trust the UEF to have the latter in spades, valuing psychological and spiritual health so highly.
The TSB was considered effective in its time because of its unit cohesion; in simple terms, it never broke, you had to wipe it out or force its commander to pull it back. Question answered.
Who's to say you can replicate this in an entire planet's Fighter Corps? Turn them all into homosexual lovers, and then put them in the same unit? I don't think so. Fair enough, here we have a documented case of it working, but our system's been serving us right for hundreds of years, getting better as we progress. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Any regulation that is issued and regularly disobeyed is a threat to discipline and stability in a unit.
Fair enough, this regulation is broken. Name me a Fighter Squadron in a respectable Air Force that breaks this regulation on a regular basis. One of my late family members was an Mi-24 pilot in the SLAF, even in a helicopter squadron in a third-world country, I didn't hear about any fraternizing of this nature.
No, but you can make it work for you, as the TSB did. Assign them to the same wing pair. You can build on existing relationships in this way. Armies in the past have recruited on a territorial basis for the same reason.
That's quite true, now what happens when relationships end? You've now got a tight-knit four man team that's divided down the centre. In combat, mixing and matching your pilots is not the most preferable course of action. And now what's your lover going to do when his boyfriend gets his ass shot up? Become combat ineffective for a week? This is creating a whole host of problems that needn't be there on the front line. By allowing this, you fix one problem, and create ten others. This kind of thinking does not sit well with military types.
This is not practical to keeping your squadron a functional combat unit. The analogous situation is WW2, where the original rules were two years after a malarial attack you couldn't fly. They cut it to two months fast but it wasn't good enough to keep units in combat. They had to release authority to return to duty status to the flight surgeon. The same thing happened with combat fatigue.
Fair enough, but only a poor military with nothing to spare will send a looney out in an $80 million dollar fighter or whatever it is the obscene price tag is these days. I don't know how it works over there, but over here, our FJ squadrons have more pilots than planes (or at least, we like to try and keep it like that IIRC), at the baseline, we have a number of pilots equivalent to an extra element that are not on flying duties, ideally, we rotate these Officers during the course of deployment, to ensure all members are well-rested.
In a unit in combat, taking losses, under enormous stress, you can't do this. Everyone will seem a little off, or a whole hell of a lot off. Nobody's going to behave normally. Some people simply fight angry to boot. That's how they're wired. You simply can't afford detailed pyschological screening when there are missions to fly and targets to kill. You'll watch your people and pull the ones who can't handle it if you can, but the system is not and cannot be perfect, and the dangers are greater than ever.
Fair enough, but as it stands, units are rotated every 30 days from the frontline IIRC (according to a manual I read a few months ago, about Combat Fatigue). Pilots these days don't go insane in 30 days.
Also I challenge your "in close proximity" considering the destroyers and other ships we've seen have more than enough space aboard to give every crew member an individual cabin, never mind crew as lofty as officer flight crew.
Arrange a tour at your local airbase. Pay particular attention when you pass the Hangar if you're lucky enough to witness the Crew Chief + His team conversing with the pilot before Take-Off.
See all my other obversations, and note that your idea of a breach of discipline and my idea of a breach of discipline are very different things. As long as you can make people people obey the regs and take orders and carry them out efficently, discipline is being maintained. If the regs don't happen to contain fraternization rules in the same form as ours...tough **** for you, I guess.
Well I'm basing my BOD's off what we're working with today, rather than a military that exists more in Battuta and Darius' heads. (Though I have some knowledge from playing the campaign and paying a little attention when the two have a storyline discussion.)
Standard military life does pretty much the same thing, but more to the point, I've already presented evidence and scenarios that directly contradict you, and nepotism is a charge unfounded as long as we don't know what exactly the rules are. It might prohibit (in fact almost certainly does prohibit, because to do otherwise would be madness) relationships with subordinates, but not those who do not fall into your unit or who are relative equals.
It bloody shouldn't if it's done right. Proper maintenance of discipline should do much the opposite, and foster professional, working relationships between members, and tighter bonds between men in the same unit.
I'll also note Dilmah has been reprimanded by Battuta for presenting his view as fact, so you don't really have a leg to stand on.
Okay. Disclaimer for anyone else who wishes to take my comments out of context. This is my opinion on discipline, and my opinion only. I am not stating facts about the UEF (I can if you'd like to though), but I'm not. I'm discussing the need for discipline in the military. As far as I'm concerned, Laporte and Simms couldn't exist as far as I cared on this matter, and thus, I'm rarely mentioning them.
I'll ignore the Galactica ad-hominem just this once, and simply relate to you the rule I've heard from somebody following every cruise of the carriers based out of San Diego. "There will be at least one female aboard who ends up involved with someone per three months of deployment. Usually an officer, not enlisted." We humans are unfortunately rather fond of sex.
Eh. How many of these women are
A) Aircrew.
B) Not in logistics.
C) Still commissioned.
BTW. What's the deal with the 27th century ? I thought BP took place a few years after Capella got toasted, which happened in 2367 :confused:
I picked a number beginning with 2. :P
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This debate is certainly interesting, but I just want to make it clear that the UEF does not officially endorse or embrace fraternization within the chain of command. The UEF's three main branches all have different approaches to discipline, however, and I think some of NGTM-1R's speculation has bubbled up at various points in the UEF's history, to one degree or another.
The question of whether the UEF military is too 'loose', to undisciplined, or even not undisciplined enough is tackled in the campaign. Drawing too much from a few lines of dialogue here is unwise.
You know, Simms and LaPorte aren't exactly equals, what with Simms being a superior officer and all. I don't really give a **** about some soldier banging someone from a totally different unit with whom he will have little or no professional interaction and will not have to rely on, but what LaPorte was doing was completely anathema to the way a military rank structure is supposed to work.
I'm a bit put off by this, first because there's no banging going on here (just a punch-drunk young pilot after a major victory), and partly because Simms is from a completely different unit - somebody Laporte has never seen before and, so far as she knows, will probably never see again.
You do know that the modern rank structure and regulations exist for a reason and are the work of people smarter than either of us laboring for centuries to increase unit discipline, right?
We are aware of this, and you can rest assured that the demands of rank and regulation will not be ignored in the story. Keep in mind, however, that BP1 focused on an extraordinary pilot who did some very against-the-regs stuff for his father, and it clearly didn't imply that the GTVA as a whole is an undisciplined mess.
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The only thing I could make out from the video was a dust-covered skybox. o_O
That said, when I saw the line about "Children of Ubuntu" or whatever it was I just felt like jacking the Hecate and launching its nuclear arsenal (or whatever similar big bang it carries since the dialogue has something to do with nuking some moon somewhere) right then and there. Come on, you have heat sinks, just OC THE BEAMS ALREADY!!! "What are you doing. Cut them up!!! CUT THEM UP!!! DON'T STOP FIRING TILL JUST BEFORE IT MELTS!!!" :wtf: :lol:
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The question of whether the UEF military is too 'loose', to undisciplined, or even not undisciplined enough is tackled in the campaign. Drawing too much from a few lines of dialogue here is unwise.
As I said, I'm drifting away from debating about the UEF, and more about the issue of discipline in general. But when your pilots don't give the respect of even calling superior officers Sir or Ma'am, and they don't get reprimanded for it on the spot, that makes me think the UEF aren't paying much attention to who they give commissions.
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Who calls people by their supervisory position unless they're really high up the chain (Person being adressed) or in serious deep ****? :P
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Eh, this is meant to be a half-competent fighter corps. :P
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Come to think of it...
Are all the UEF pilots volunteers or was there a military drafting too?
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I've no idea, but I think it'd be against Ubuntu principle to draft.
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Interesting video, but nothing like the Neptune or other previews. Terrible flight skills and tactics. Nonetheless thanks for the preview.
By the way, any good fighter pilot knows you go after the beam cannons on capital ships first. A.I wingmen are good for distractions while Alpha 1 takes out beams. If this were done, could the Hecate be destroyed/disabled, or is it programmed to jump out like the cowardly GTVA usually do?
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Eh, dude. The purpose of this video was to showcase the mod, not sexually assault the GTVA Fighter Corps. :P I assure you, Fury is a fine pilot. :)
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From the looks of it the UEF fighter corp are sexually assaulting each other lol. . :bah:
Whats with the disco frigate by the way? What's it do?
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I leave home for a few days and...
:jaw:
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Interesting video, but nothing like the Neptune or other previews. Terrible flight skills and tactics. Nonetheless thanks for the preview.
There's no call to be rude to Fury, and that was definitely rude. You should apologize.
By the way, any good fighter pilot knows you go after the beam cannons on capital ships first. A.I wingmen are good for distractions while Alpha 1 takes out beams. If this were done, could the Hecate be destroyed/disabled, or is it programmed to jump out like the cowardly GTVA usually do?
Any good fighter pilot knows to do his job, and with so much fighter cover threatening the friendly gunships who are supposed to be handling beam disarmament, those fighters are certainly a priority.
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Exactly. Follow orders, show initiative in the absence of such.
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You can go directly for the beams yourself if you want, but our Hecate isn't precisely stock, so there's some incentive to try to keep the gunships alive to do their jobs.
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This file is a biggun'.
Which mission is it, out of curiosity? Have I played it? If so, has it changed from the version I played and were any of ngtm1r's or my feedbacks taken into consideration? :nervous:
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Why don't you just use the Youtube link?
Of course your feedback was taken into consideration, you silly. Yes, you've played it, it's m02. But this version shows off the new AI.
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So far. :)
(though arguably untrue given that part of Sam's decision to reach the Vishnans had to do with his love of Eriana)
Yeah, but given that he had a straight relationship with her (sort of), that's okay.
...right? :nervous:
...our Hecate isn't precisely stock...
The Iceni depicted in FS2 was never a stock warship either. Good on the BP team for tweaking its guns. :nod:
Terrible flight skills and tactics.
If you knew the truth, you would not say such things.
I leave home for a few days and...
:jaw:
What, the five-page reply? Yeah, get used to it. This IS under the Community Highlights after all.
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So far. :)
(though arguably untrue given that part of Sam's decision to reach the Vishnans had to do with his love of Eriana)
Yeah, but given that he had a straight relationship with her (sort of), that's okay.
Why does this matter? The question (NGTM-1R) concerned relationships at large, and there's certainly no distinction drawn in-universe.
The Iceni depicted in FS2 was never a stock warship either. Good on the BP team for tweaking its guns.
Huh, really? The in-mission Iceni didn't match the table entry? I did not know that.
Anyway, it's not so much the guns being tweaked as the subsystem armor, via a new feature Fury got the SCP to implement.
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Ah, Post Meridian...
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The Iceni depicted in FS2 was never a stock warship either. Good on the BP team for tweaking its guns.
Huh, really? The in-mission Iceni didn't match the table entry? I did not know that.
Anyway, it's not so much the guns being tweaked as the subsystem armor, via a new feature Fury got the SCP to implement.
Really? The Wiki/actual tables do not have the Iceni equipped with beam cannons, yet in "Rebels and Renegades" the ship is definately trying to zap some over-zealous Vasudans! :P
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So BGreens aren't beam cannons?
The Iceni did have a lot of mission-specific armaments but the default tables do give it beam cannons.
EDIT
lol typo fixed im stupid lol
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*Epic Facepalm
I can't believe I missed that. I meant to say anit-fighter beams, which are not standard weapons for the ship according to the tables. The Iceni clearly has those in that mission...
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I just noticed some "items" blow the wings of the playship when it jumps out. Are those externally carried missles there (like the use in TBP for example)?
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There are externally carried missiles, including some that are carried in bays which open up gorgeously when the missile is selected, but the Uhlan does not have them - just underwing missile pods.
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Whats with the disco frigate by the way? What's it do?
:wtf:
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It's dead centre at 9:30.#
Blindgit :p
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Oh...the Odysseus, or Upanishad in Blue Planet... :blah:
Pretty boring looking ship I think, just a BSG style ship with impractially placed engines.
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That thar's a ship from ye olde and cancelle'd TOS BSG mod for FS. I'll agree that the running lights are pretty goofy, but the engine placement isn't bad at all. If you want impractical engine placement, refer to most canon FS ships.
However, with the BSG geometry and texture, it does look quite out-of-place...
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It's a civilian transport. Jovians use the hulls as an electronic platform. It's often repurposed as an ECM ship and beam decoy.
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I knew I shouldn't have left this alone this long. Okay, I'm gonna let most of it lie, but not all.
As I said, I'm drifting away from debating about the UEF, and more about the issue of discipline in general. But when your pilots don't give the respect of even calling superior officers Sir or Ma'am, and they don't get reprimanded for it on the spot, that makes me think the UEF aren't paying much attention to who they give commissions.
Observation: Sir or Ma'am is superficial discipline. Take an example; the British in WW2 were very good about "sir" and saluting superiors and so forth. Their actual field proficency was at best equal with American units where saluting and sirring were treated in more lax fashion, and in some spheres (compare the RN and the USN, for example) they came off significantly worse.
When it comes down to it, the only form of discipline that really matters on the firing line is the ability to take and execute orders. The UEF appears to manage that just as well as anyone does. Their real problems would seem to lie further up the chain of command.
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Come to think of it...
Are all the UEF pilots volunteers or was there a military drafting too?
Drafting is almost always done for enlisted positions only (especially infantry, which you need a whole lot of and which many people who otherwise would join the military voluntarily want to stay way the hell away from). The huge amount of training invested in officers and their relatively small numbers make it impractical to conscript officers.
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I knew I shouldn't have left this alone this long. Okay, I'm gonna let most of it lie, but not all.
As I said, I'm drifting away from debating about the UEF, and more about the issue of discipline in general. But when your pilots don't give the respect of even calling superior officers Sir or Ma'am, and they don't get reprimanded for it on the spot, that makes me think the UEF aren't paying much attention to who they give commissions.
Observation: Sir or Ma'am is superficial discipline. Take an example; the British in WW2 were very good about "sir" and saluting superiors and so forth. Their actual field proficency was at best equal with American units where saluting and sirring were treated in more lax fashion, and in some spheres (compare the RN and the USN, for example) they came off significantly worse.
When it comes down to it, the only form of discipline that really matters on the firing line is the ability to take and execute orders. The UEF appears to manage that just as well as anyone does. Their real problems would seem to lie further up the chain of command.
Fair enough, my concern though, is that when we lose those small things, we may generally see a drop in respect for Officers by enlisted personnel, save those that have "earned" that respect, in a time of war such as WiH, where the military wasn't a huge thing in that society.
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If you'll look at the dialogue in question, she actually apologies for the breach of discipline in rather formal terms.
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Dialogue in question? I didn't know we were talking about a specific line... But I know which piece of dialogue you're referring to, and that's all well and good.
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I always thought that the Odysseus looks great.
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It doesn't look like it belongs in FS.
It looks very out of place, no matter how great it looks.
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Really? The front reminds of the Raynor, you know.
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It doesn't look like it belongs in FS.
It looks very out of place, no matter how great it looks.
FS spacecraft have enough variety that this statement cannot work.
It can however work if it looks out of place within a particular lineup that has good unity of design.
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You mean like if it was part of the Vasudan fleet?
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Or if it was dumped in the nuGTVA fleet without a reskin, considering how they're painted the same way.
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Oh yeah, that too...
The image of it on FS Wiki makes it look more Capella-era, in my opinion.
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Great stuff in this trailer, can't wait! :D
However, why are the UEF using a Great War-era support ship? At least, I think that's what I saw... :wtf:
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Why is the GTVA using one?
Simple answer: Because they work.
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There are externally carried missiles, including some that are carried in bays which open up gorgeously when the missile is selected, but the Uhlan does not have them - just underwing missile pods.
Sweet :D If I wasn't already, I'd become a fan of BP right now.
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Do the sledgehammers have unique models? I frowned when I downloaded the federal fighter pack and there was no sledge or Thor cannon.
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They all have unique models.
And the Federal Fighter Packs are still...incomplete in some areas.
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Yeah I realised about nine months ago.
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Why is the GTVA using one?
Simple answer: Because they work.
Actually, it doesn't make much sense, come to think of it.
UEF fighters have modular hulls, or whatever they're called, which allows support ships to repair their main hull strength. I doubt a 50 year old design (by now) would be able to do this without extensive modifications.
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UEF support ship is not in-game due to model issues. They will eventually have one however. Since it is just a visual change, it has not been high in priority list.
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Yeah, we had a UEF support ship (the Aranyaka), but it caused the game to crash occasionally.
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Got a screenshot of it? I'm curious to know how it looks like.
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Actually, it doesn't make much sense, come to think of it.
UEF fighters have modular hulls, or whatever they're called, which allows support ships to repair their main hull strength. I doubt a 50 year old design (by now) would be able to do this without extensive modifications.
I sort of figured they couldn't get funding for a new support ship design in the political climate produced by Ubuntu, so the Centaur had to soldier on.
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Androgeos: it was the Beksup from Taristin's Skelkwank ships (minus the alien-looking glows)
(http://skelkwank.bluescalie.net/assets/randpics/beksup.jpg)
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Reminds me of the Hygeia. Stick to the Centaur. :)
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That makes some unfortunate sense, as all of his ships from that collection and the Losna had a crash-inducing bug as originally released. Ransom figured out how to get the Losna to work for Transcend, though, you might want to consult him on it.
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Losna?
Only Kelpie made apperance in Transcend.
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Losna?
Only Kelpie made apperance in Transcend.
So I'm confused! It's still true, I remember Ransom mentioning that the thingie (haha now you can't do that anymore) had problems which delayed the release significantly.
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Since that Bek'Tah Support Ship is there I'm going to add the Interceptor and Bomber look epic too. :D
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Zacam got access to Blue Planet SVN to debug an issue HerraTohtori was experiencing. When Zacam got around to play a mission HerraTohtori had reported issues with, this is what Zacam had to say.
<Zacam-Away>: Oh, and btw....that was BALLS INSANE! Jesus. I need a cig after that.
<Zacam-Away>: Freespace dog fights are like 2 lame house dogs yapping at each other. Fur-ball in BP2-04 is like two lean but well fed junk-yard dogs looking for blood.
This should further motivate the team to push WiH forward. :)
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There's a mission called "Fur-ball" in WiH? :wtf:
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/me headdesks
No, furball is another term for dogfight.
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Basically, imagine two dogs fighting, chasing each other's tails--this is the metaphor behind an aircraft battle. Now, imagine a whole bunch of dogs all fighting each other and running around ridiculously fast, so all you see is a blur that looks like a giant ball of fur. That is a furball.
A furball is a large, chaotic melee involving many fighter aircraft.
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Or bombers, if you're feeling confident. :pimp:
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If it's an Athena. ;7
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Or an Artemis D.H. :D
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There's no difference between Artemis and Artemis D.H aside of paintjob.
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*Facepalm...
Don't forget that the D.H. has a slightly different mesh as well...
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Three verticle stabilizers instead of four. :P
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The Artemis isn't terribly maneuverable and has terrible gun placement. I wouldn't take it into a dogfight.
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Or bombers, if you're feeling confident. :pimp:
We need to fred the Durga Furball. I have never had more fun in FS than dogfighting with Redeemers.
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Swarms of massive bombers blasting the hell out of each other? I want to see that!
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The Artemis isn't terribly maneuverable and has terrible gun placement. I wouldn't take it into a dogfight.
Amen, the Arty just wasn't made to dogfight in. As I found out a year ago when FRED-ing a Fighter/Bomber mission for it.
Or bombers, if you're feeling confident. :pimp:
We need to fred the Durga Furball. I have never had more fun in FS than dogfighting with Redeemers.
;7
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Here's a shorter clip showing off some weapons and what you can do with them... if you have what it takes.
And if the enemies are willing to fly into their doom by flying close to each other. :p
Short Gameplay Sample, mediafire link (http://www.mediafire.com/?mjtoqg3rmz0).
Youtube link. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syFrPFvTvWg&fmt=22) Not as good quality but faster to watch and, I guess, passable.
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Amen, the Arty just wasn't made to dogfight in. As I found out a year ago when FRED-ing a Fighter/Bomber mission for it.
Hey, if you can't handle it, that's your problem. :P
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First of all, this trailer is my first contact with this mod. And it looks really amazing! All you need is some good voice acting and it will be great.
Oh, and I'm definitely in love with that vulcan cannon. :D The sound, the look, this gun perfect :) Actually, all weapons look great (I still prefer longer trails for missiles but that's the only exception).
BTW, did I heard some King Arthur music in the background? :P
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Amen, the Arty just wasn't made to dogfight in. As I found out a year ago when FRED-ing a Fighter/Bomber mission for it.
Hey, if you can't handle it, that's your problem. :P
'Aye, unless you're taking down a Myrmi or a Mara, those primaries'll just swipe their side-view mirrors. :P
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'Aye, unless you're taking down a Myrmi or a Mara, those primaries'll just swipe their side-view mirrors. :P
The wiki does warn you to do a little aim-off. :P
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Here's a shorter clip showing off some weapons and what you can do with them... if you have what it takes.
And if the enemies are willing to fly into their doom by flying close to each other. :p
Short Gameplay Sample, mediafire link (http://www.mediafire.com/?mjtoqg3rmz0).
Youtube link. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syFrPFvTvWg&fmt=22) Not as good quality but faster to watch and, I guess, passable.
X3 music?
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That is Alexei Zakharov's work, yes. "Earth Orbit Battle".
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That is Alexei Zakharov's work, yes. "Earth Orbit Battle".
If we're speaking abut music, what are the tracks used in the Neptune video and the WiH trailer from first page ?
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Budget Meeting from the movie King Arthur.
Hans Zimmer.
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It's just Hans Zimmer, but yeah.
I mean, he may be the Man, but he's not ZimmerMan.
First post updated with link to HerraTohtori's stuff. He got a beautiful shot with a Slammer, better than I've ever managed. It's like an Inferno missile that actually works!
First of all, this trailer is my first contact with this mod. And it looks really amazing! All you need is some good voice acting and it will be great.
Oh, and I'm definitely in love with that vulcan cannon. :D The sound, the look, this gun perfect :) Actually, all weapons look great (I still prefer longer trails for missiles but that's the only exception).
BTW, did I heard some King Arthur music in the background? :P
Hey Harpoon. Glad to hear you liked it. Voice acting is probably not going to happen just because of the sheer amount of dialogue WiH has, but we have a voice acted version of Blue Planet: Age of Aquarius almost done. Have you played that one?
If you like the Vulcan you'll love the Balor from AoA.
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Slammers are awesome sauce compared to other fighter suppression missiles. :D
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Looks like people have yet to notice there is another suppression missile used in the mission other than the Slammer. Pay attention to 1:21 - 1:26. Ordnance in question is called Storm Fire, evil twin of the Slammer dealing death in 200 meter radius. ;) Slammer is more focused while Storm Fire is true area suppression.
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That just looks like a glorified Cluster Missile to me.
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It's not. Also, it is Fury's baby, so insult it at your own peril!
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Then again the text with the comparison between the two just appeared so even then I'd still prefer the Slammer.
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Dear Battuta, my handiwork in BP tables these days is so plentiful it's hard to draw a line what is my baby and what is not. :)
Commander Zane, these two missiles fill different roles in suppression. One excels at taking down several ships, another is potentially capable of taking down whole wings if you get lucky.
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One excels at taking down several ships, another is potentially capable of taking down whole wings if you get lucky.
That both means taking down multiple ships at once. ;) That's satisfaction guarenteed for me. :D
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Quite wasting time making us drool and get on with the release! :p
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By all means, take your time. I want something truly worthwhile. :yes:
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It's chugging along. It's not like we aren't crazy eager to release, too. We're drooling fans of Darius' work.
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I see UEF has what looks like flak... using the maxim impact effect, but w/e...
Also, I notice Ezekiels, and that instead of ship class it's got the squadron name displaying.
And I'm curious as to what that ring-like structure was... looked hostile, on the radar.
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Speaking of 'Zekes, which version are you using? The crazy-awsome 8-cannon rape-O-matic, or the Eos, the labotomized clone of the Zeke?
I personally vouch for the rape-O-matic version, though I understand that the tables will undoubtably be altered regardless, as the Zeke was supposed to be quite overpowered... Really, the 8-gun version isn't too much to ask for, as the GTVA (the Terran forces, at least) would need an elite fighter. Whereas the Erinyes is sort of a true space superiority version of the Herc 2, the Ezekiel would make a similarly great "space superiority" version of the Perseus...
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Speaking of 'Zekes, which version are you using? The crazy-awsome 8-cannon rape-O-matic, or the Eos, the labotomized clone of the Zeke?
I personally vouch for the rape-O-matic version, though I understand that the tables will undoubtably be altered regardless, as the Zeke was supposed to be quite overpowered... Really, the 8-gun version isn't too much to ask for, as the GTVA (the Terran forces, at least) would need an elite fighter. Whereas the Erinyes is sort of a true space superiority version of the Herc 2, the Ezekiel would make a similarly great "space superiority" version of the Perseus...
It currently has 4 guns and a decent load of missiles.
And I'm curious as to what that ring-like structure was... looked hostile, on the radar.
It's an intrasystem gate, there's a couple of them in Sol. (but you've seen nothing on that trailer, just wait for a vid with a closeup on one of these)
This one might have been captured by GTVA, so it's marked hostile.
I didn't played that mission though, so I don't know for sure.
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Speaking of 'Zekes, which version are you using? The crazy-awsome 8-cannon rape-O-matic, or the Eos, the labotomized clone of the Zeke?
Neither. That fighter is called the Nyx. Her stats aren't set in stone, but she will be balanced to be player-usable.
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That's a UEF fighter then? Post screen shot, please...
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Nope, she's a GTVA fighter, and it's just the Ezechiel model that I imagine you've already seen.
We can add or remove gunpoints as we please.
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Sorry for the confusion, then, but the statement "she's neither" prompted a bit of misunderstanding...
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Nice cinematics.
That missile hurts :nervous:
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I would cut out the flirting. Its not natural or real in a military environment.
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Actually, one of the most notable features of military life is the constant sexual innuendos. Check out pilot jargon for some great examples.
You'll just have to trust us to handle things well. In the meantime, please refer to the first post and the disclaimer that the dialogue is not yet final.
Our character arcs are already in place.
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For those of you worried about the flirt dialogue at the end of the mission, a new draft just went up - something that had been in the pipe for a while. While we're certainly not going to be writing by committee here, I might record another playthrough so you can check it out, just so you guys can see how our creative process works.
Dialogue is the most important of almost any mission, and we spend a lot of time refining it, tweaking the message timing, and making sure it all scans appropriately. I think both Darius and I would agree that we spend most of our FRED time working on messages.
I must say, I've played this mission at least thirty times by now, and I'm still not sick of it. What a blast.
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I might record another playthrough so you can check it out, just so you guys can see how our creative process works.
I think they would get fairly good impression on the process when they get around to play the final edition. No really need to spam people with hype-material, there's still many, many months of development left. Let's save some hype for those months to come. :)
Darius already remarked that by the time WiH is final, there's nothing new for people to see at this rate. :p
Addendum: I admit I'm as much guilty for hyping WiH as you are. :nervous:
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Sounds good. Wouldn't want to spoil all the good stuff.
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While you're on the subject of time scales, how's the AoA voicework coming along? I've been itching for a replay at some point, and unless the voiced release will have to be pushed back until after WiH is out, I'd rather just wait on that before I do so. :)
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We're incredibly close to done in terms of roles left to fill. But I'm not sure we can easily put a timeframe on it, given RL demands right now.
It's mostly finished.
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It's mostly finished.
That's all that maters now to me ;)
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Actually, one of the most notable features of military life is the constant sexual innuendos.
Quite true, I know this from first-hand experience myself.
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Ok, if you're in a Nyx and its supposed to be a Tev fighter, i'm guessing there are a lot more defections than expected (not really that surprising as i'm sure there are a lot of people would would think the war is pointless anyways) or letting my imagination run wild with the UEF sending in their own black ops forces and stealing from Tev space...
Either way though, no matter how you get the Nyx, i'm looking forward to piloting one.... 200kmps full afterburner is sick.
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The Nyx will be balanced as a player-usable ship. This doesn't mean it will be player-usable. It doesn't mean it won't be, but don't jump to any storyline conclusions based on that fact alone.
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Speaking of 'Zekes, which version are you using? The crazy-awsome 8-cannon rape-O-matic, or the Eos, the labotomized clone of the Zeke?
Did you take this name from my post-Capella mod (which has a four-gun Ezechiel named the Eos) or did someone else come up with this idea first?
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Didn't you post about how it was called the Eos in your mod or something? I imagine that's where Thaeris is coming from.
The Eos is already a ship-to-ship missile in Blue Planet.
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I know that, I just found it strange that he was using an alternative name from another mod when talking about Blue Planet.
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With all these recent mods, there's quite a few user-made assets that have different names depending on the mod.
Actually, I read up on the Ezekiel naming conventions on the FS Wiki. Also, several other people have discussed the naming variations of the 'Zeke in the past...
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Well, I believe it was Woolie who passed us the model, so it's no surprise you remembered the Eos' name. And thanks again to Woolie. :)
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The name "Eos" has been used for several things over several mods. In INFR1, the support ship's called GTS Eos.
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Did we ever get an explanation of "desparta ferro"?
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Using the awesome power of the wikipedia search function, I give you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almogavars#The_battle_cry_of_the_Almog.C3.A0vers
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Neat, thanks... dunno why I didn't think to do that myself. :confused:
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The Nyx will be balanced as a player-usable ship. This doesn't mean it will be player-usable. It doesn't mean it won't be, but don't jump to any storyline conclusions based on that fact alone.
It most likely will be possible to allow in a custom mission, but campaign will not let you fly it.
Maybe BP3 will do it though.
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The Nyx will be balanced as a player-usable ship. This doesn't mean it will be player-usable. It doesn't mean it won't be, but don't jump to any storyline conclusions based on that fact alone.
It most likely will be possible to allow in a custom mission, but campaign will not let you fly it.
Maybe BP3 will do it though.
Dragon, hush! :p
The flyability of the Nyx is not a variable that you should assign a value to at this time.
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It's always flyable. Most you ever need to do is some table/mission hacking :P
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I just noticed that the UEF ships have violet afterburners.... I'd certainly prefer something a bit more in the blueish area or even the turquoise/teal of the 3.6.9 MediaVPs (and Dawn of Sol) used for terran ships.
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