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Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Herra Tohtori on July 01, 2010, 03:33:12 pm

Title: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 01, 2010, 03:33:12 pm
Excerpt from

Sol: A History
-Comprehensive Introduction to Modern History of Solar System-

by

Prof. B. Russell, Faculty of History
University of Cambridge / Federation Science Academy

and

H.T. Wright, Department of Martian Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences
Marineris Institute of Technology / Federation Science Academy






Chapter 18

Martian Terraforming and Colonization



Mars: Humanity's First Attempt on Planetary Alteration

The terraforming of Mars began in earnest when humanity discovered subspace travel. Not only did it cut travel time and costs significantly, it also provided humanity with sufficiently advanced energy production methods to generate a magnetic field on a planetary scale. When proof-of-concept testing was completed on the Moon, magnetosphere generators were installed on the Martian surface.

Once the magnetic field was established, efforts to increase the density of atmosphere could begin. Several suggestions were considered, among them shipping nitrogen from the Venusian atmosphere, which was eventually deemed too slow to produce actual results in meaningful time. Instead, genetically tailored, soil-consuming bacteria were developed. These bacteria are currently at work consuming oxygen-rich minerals in the Martian soil and releasing oxygen and traces of other gases into the atmosphere.

To avoid issues with building-consuming bacteria in the future, these bacteria have an inherent extinction trigger after a set number of generations, and scientists are taking samples of the population at regular intervals to keep track of possible mutations. However, use of concrete and glass as building material is impossible during the current phase of the terraforming process. Instead, plastic, composites, steel and other metals with a better lifetime expectancy are employed.

Additionally, several comets and asteroids with high water-ice composition were maneuvered to impact the vast, uninhabited deserts of Mars in order to increase the water vapour consistency of the atmosphere. After the initial impacts, these efforts were deemed a waste of resources and an unnecessary danger. Mars had large amounts of water ice under the surface already, and scientists predicted that with a warmer, denser atmosphere, that water ice would naturally humidify the planet again.

It is a little known fact that the pressure at the deepest recesses of Martian geography (Vallis Marineris, Hellas Planitia and Argyre Planitia) was above the triple point of water even before terraforming attempts. This meant that liquid water could exist - but at the low atmospheric pressure that prevailed during the early stages of the terraforming process, the water would evaporate during the daytime. However, being the deepest places on Mars, these recesses collected the gases released by the terraforming bacteria. Eventually, the atmospheric pressure at the bottom of these recesses was high enough to keep water from boiling during daytime and prevent freezing over night-time, as the increased density also increased heat retention. The bodies of water would still freeze over during wintertime in Hellas Planitia and Argyre Planitia. Being closer to the equator, Vallis Marineris has no seasonal variation of this scale in temperatures.

As soon as this phase was completed, water ice mining and vaporization began on several locations on Mars. Instead of transporting mined water ice to the deep areas, it was subjected to scientific research before the complete destruction of these ancient ice deposits. Surplus ice was subjected to electrolysis to increase oxygen partial pressures and the hydrogen and deuterium were stored for their various uses. The results of this research are available in a series of reports issued by the GTA Office of Human Habitation and (post-Isolation) the Federation Science Academy.

The main focus, however, was to increase the rate of melting and vaporization of these deposits. This was accomplished with an orbital mirror system designed to focus radiation on large ice concentrations. As the ice would melt and almost immediately vaporize, it would increase the humidity of the atmosphere, eventually starting a weather cycle in the deep areas of higher pressure. The places where this happened first were Hellas Planitia and Argyre Planitia. First, the precipitation fell in the form of snow, creating thick white cover on the bottom of the recesses. After the atmospheric thickness further increased, heat retention increased as well, and eventually the water melted and formed large bodies of water.

While liquid water was being introduced to the impact basins on the southern hemisphere, work began to construct a massive dam to cut the northeast end of Vallis Marineris from the large, recessed areas that cover much of the Martian northern hemisphere. Without this dam, introducing water to the canyon would just have let the water flow through it to this large area, where it would be spread too thin and vaporize too fast to be of any real use. This dam was named Rybolt-Urueta, in honor of the first human inhabitants of the Red Planet.

Soon after the weather cycle of water was achieved at the deep recesses, aquatic plant life was introduced to the planet, starting the ongoing process of biosphere insertion.



(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9412/marsterraformed1920desk.png)
Above: an image of Mars in its current phase of terraforming. Notable features visible are portions of Valles Marineris and the Capri Delta, where water streaming over the Rybolt-Urueta dam complex forms rivers and ponds before eventually evaporating.


Life on the Red Planet

At stage one of biosphere insertion, algae from the arctic regions of Earth were introduced to the accumulated bodies of water. After several decades of oxygen production with negligible oxygen consumption, sufficient amounts of oxygen concentrations in the water and atmosphere of Mars was reached to support aquatic animal life and land plantation.

Arctic fish, crustaceans and algae-consuming animal plankton, as well as thick-leaved bushes, subshrubs and small conifer species were inserted to the Red Planet in this second stage of biosphere insertion, and green patches started to develop around the lakes in the impact basins as well as along the steep edges of Vallis Marineris.

By the time stage two of biosphere insertion was complete, the majority of the carbon dioxide in the old Martian atmosphere had been converted into biomass and oxygen. Because of the high oxygen concentration, the partial pressure of O2 was at level similar to high-altitude environments on Earth, such as the Himalayas on the Tibetan Plateau, or the Andes on South America. This meant that, while very unpleasant for new colonists, exposure to the Martian atmosphere would no longer be immediately lethal, and acclimatization would be possible with long term exposure to lower oxygen partial and absolute pressure.

However, it is typical for habitats to be pressurized to roughly 3000 metres of Earth equivalent altitude, with a more traditional nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere. These conditions provide a slightly higher partial pressures of oxygen than the Martian atmosphere, but due to higher total pressure, they are also significantly gentler on soft tissues such as eyes, ears, nasal and oral cavities, pharynx and lungs.  Prolonged exposure to the thin Martian air still requires the use of safety equipment to prevent dehydration.

As a result of these harsh conditions, the Martian population has already developed some limited traits similar to peoples living at high altitudes, such as Sherpas and Peruvian or Chilean indigenous people. Similar to these peoples, Martian people do not develop significantly higher red cell concentrations, but their bodies are instead otherwise acclimated to lower absolute pressure as well as lower partial pressure of oxygen. Most of the changes are still basic acclimation to the environment, which is not caused by the genotype - there has simply not been enough time for significant evolutionary differences to develop. Medical statistics do show that people who have high-altitude ancestry do tend to acclimate faster and better to the conditions on Mars.


Harsh life

Surface colonies on Mars faced many problems during their development. As the water levels are projected to rise and eventually cover the majority of the deepest parts of the planet, it would have made little sense to build a lot of static infrastructure. Instead, semi-mobile housing units were designed using existing cargo containers as a basis. These units each have individually functioning power, life support and social engineering systems. As the water levels slowly rise, settlements will re-locate to higher ground. Domed settlements were established in more permanently habitable areas, establishing the first Martian cities.

Main logistical facilities on Mars include heavy-duty space ports on the high shield volcanoes of Olympus Mons, Ascraeus Mons, Pavonis Mons and Arsia Mons. These space ports are equipped to handle all atmospheric-capable ships in the United Earth Federation fleet. They are located on top of the high mountains for several reasons, which are all tied to a single factor: altitude. The high altitude of these locations reduces atmospheric interference with operations, decreases the energy requirements of hauling cargo into orbit, and reduces the stresses of atmospheric re-entry on the ships operating from these bases. These bases function as the main cargo and personnel routes to the planet.

The mountain bases are connected to the population centres mainly via atmospheric transportation. In addition to this, some amounts of cargo and passengers are sometimes transported from Tharsis Mons bases to Vallis Marineris via monorail trains. The heaviest cargo is hauled to its destination with Chronos and Kadmos class spacecraft. Passenger traffic to Hellas and Argyre locations further from the space ports are usually conducted with ballistic-atmospheric shuttles. Short range traffic within the inhabited areas is usually managed with VTOL craft, though land transportation vehicles also exist.


Time of Troubles

Despite the initial successful phases of the terraforming process, the expansion of human life into the universe ironically began to undercut Martian colonization. More immediately habitable planets were discovered and colonized as a result of space exploration and the discovery of new subspace nodes. As a result, the priority of terraforming Mars diminished, and political pressure began to mount to abort the project as a waste of resources and effort. Due to this, the funding for the Martian colonies was reduced, effectively halting the biosphere insertion process. The active terraforming of Mars was put on a back burner, and the existing colonies were practically left to their own devices. And, indeed, for a while it looked like the critics had been correct; it was easier, faster, more convenient, less dangerous and much, much more pleasant to land on an immediately habitable planet and start full scale colonization. What could go wrong?

The short-sightedness of this policy was fatally exposed due to first contact with Vasudans. The subsequent fifteen-year-war was followed by the Great War, which culminated in the separation of Sol from its colonies in other star systems. Suddenly, Mars could no longer be considered the backwater colony it had become during the expansion phase of the GTA. The subsequent economic and political collapse of the Sol system left Mars in a unique position, because they had already lived decades on their own. By the time of the funding and resource cuts, they had already achieved a degree of self-sufficiency, and continued their lifestyle, slowly building, expanding and gathering more resources. A socialist/neo-Marxist ethos conflated with radical ecoconsciousness began to ferment in the Martian colonies, eventually leading to radical offshoots like the Gaian Effort.

In the mainstream, the colonies developed very advanced models to predict societal development and to maximize their productivity. There are rumours that these simulations were based on a 21st century program that simulated dwarves living in fortresses; however, these are only unsubstantiated rumours, no more. Regardless of their origins, these models were very accurate and effective, and some claim that they formed a significant backbone to the models used by Ubuntu to guide the development of the society and economy throughout the Sol system.


New Glory for the God of War

The formation of the UEF marked a significant upturn in the history of Martian colonization. Population increased rapidly, tripling since the end of the Great War. 250 million Martian citizens now live on the surface, and several hundred thousand more make their lives on orbital installations, in the Phobos and Deimos docks, and in the inner portion of the asteroid belt - technically part of Martian territory.

Although Mars is significantly less populous than Earth, its military - the Second Rim Fleet - is much larger than Earth's First Home Fleet. This is because of both tradition and necessity. The population of Mars considers space flight to be part of their heritage and culture. Additionally, 2nd Fleet is required to patrol larger distances between a much larger amount of celestial bodies than the 1st Fleet, as the majority of the Asteroid belt and the activity there falls within 2nd Fleet's jurisdiction. 3rd Jovian Rim Fleet has similar reasons for its size, as their jurisdiction area also covers the small outposts beyond the orbit of Saturn and the tumultuous Kuiper territories.

In addition to large increase in population, the production levels of Mars and its surrounding facilities have skyrocketed in the past three decades. The main orbital employer now are the UEF shipyards, which are responsible for much of the combat vessel production for the UEF military. The Martian industrial complex also hosts the Oxys-Ultor Threat Workshop, a major R&D and military production venture. Mars is also notable for the presence of the Solus Lacus Internment Facility, which became a processing site for GTVA captives and defectors during the opening stages of the Federation-Alliance war.


(http://i.imgur.com/54cMfVV.jpg) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/131849120/mars-terraformed-names-v4.jpg)
Above: A map of notable locations and inhabited areas of Mars in 2382.

Below: A rare wide angle image of Mars taken from medium altitude orbit. Notable locations visible are eastern parts of Valles Marineris and parts of Argyre Planitia to the South.
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9559/marsterraformed45deg204.png)

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Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 01, 2010, 03:42:13 pm
Cookie for the first person to find and call out all the easter eggs and identify the minor plot clue in the map.

Seriously, zoom in on that map, it's awesome. Like how Lake Bastion is apparently located right next to SPARTAAAAAAAAAAA
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Aardwolf on July 01, 2010, 03:58:12 pm
Well, there are a bunch of GTD Orion names used as names of lakes in what looks like some sort of "New Greece"
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2010, 04:00:36 pm
Out of curiosity, when did you guys start writing descriptions like this?
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Spoon on July 01, 2010, 04:07:26 pm
I see a dworf fortress there   :lol:
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 01, 2010, 04:08:48 pm
Well, there are a bunch of GTD Orion names in that one region...

Those are just names for the areas of water, they don't have any specific meaning (except provide a hint of the time frame of the current naming scheme, which I figured would have been pre-TV-war, when Orions were shiny and new).

Mobius: I've been spending the summer at my parents', pretty much stranded from my normal computer, so I haven't been able to do much stuff like texture editing... and we had discussed the status of Mars in length to establish a backstory for the renders of the skybox that you will be seeing. So, to do something remotely productive, I decided to put up this thing.

Using GIMP on this computer is like trying to row a nuclear submarine with a spoon. Submerged.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 01, 2010, 04:25:17 pm
Out of curiosity, when did you guys start writing descriptions like this?

Right here. (http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/reunion.html)

Most of the prose released so far is in the Age of Aquarius Director's Cut techroom at the end of the campaign.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2010, 04:30:47 pm
Mobius: I've been spending the summer at my parents', pretty much stranded from my normal computer, so I haven't been able to do much stuff like texture editing... and we had discussed the status of Mars in length to establish a backstory for the renders of the skybox that you will be seeing. So, to do something remotely productive, I decided to put up this thing.

Using GIMP on this computer is like trying to row a nuclear submarine with a spoon. Submerged.

Well, the analogies with Inferno are interesting. We're also writing descriptions like this, but with less references to the period that preceeded the T-V War in respect of TVWP (people are free to come out with their own versions of FS' history, but it was my choice to leave the description of that period to TVWP). Terraforming, however, deserved a description. Some references to emigration have also been added.

One of the main differences is about the extent of the Martian cities (Mars' population is much more impressive in INF) and the way they're built. Mars is a "cold planet", meaning that plate tectonic do not influence its surface, so it's fairly possible to build structures underground. This could hardly happen on Earth, so most modern structures are built underwater.

I like how we had the same intuition about bacteria. "Project Proterozoic II" (temporary name, may be definitive) is what makes Mars' atmosphere fit for humans in INF: its goal is to replicate the Proterozoic's great oxygenation events that occurred on Earth billions of years ago.

Right here. (http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/reunion.html)

Most of the prose released so far is in the Age of Aquarius Director's Cut techroom at the end of the campaign.

That description's style is somehow... different.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: The E on July 01, 2010, 04:35:17 pm
Because it was written by a different author, on a different subject.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2010, 04:37:32 pm
Yeah. I was refering to descriptions like Herra's, with a lot of historical references and stuff like that.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Snail on July 01, 2010, 04:41:15 pm
Well the plot ones are a lot more about the immediate events surrounding the campaign, this is more for general interest. We need more things like this.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 01, 2010, 04:43:24 pm
Well, the analogies with Inferno are interesting. We're also writing descriptions like this, but with less references to the period that preceeded the T-V War in respect of TVWP (people are free to come out with their own versions of FS' history, but it was my choice to leave the description of that period to TVWP). Terraforming, however, deserved a description. Some references to emigration have also been added.

One of the main differences is about the extent of the Martian cities (Mars' population is much more impressive in INF) and the way they're built. Mars is a "cold planet", meaning that plate tectonic do not influence its surface, so it's fairly possible to build structures underground. This could hardly happen on Earth, so most modern structures are built underwater.

Most of the structures outside the deep recession would likely be underground, yes.

However, as far as I see it, mobile habitats simply laid on surface offer a much better option in a situation where water levels are projected to eventually rise to cover much of the northern hemisphere and all the major recesses in the surface. Like mentioned, large amounts of static infrastructure like underground habitats would make no sense, when there's a lot of vacuum-grade containers available that can be easily modified to any atmospheric conditions.

(Plus, it makes building a Martian city criminally easy; take containers, make a bunch of "housing module" textures, put them on the surface. Add some landing pads and some types of other models, and you're basically set. :lol:)


Quote
I like how we had the same intuition about bacteria. "Project Proterozoic II" (temporary name, may be definitive) is what makes Mars' atmosphere fit for humans in INF: its goal is to replicate the Proterozoic's great oxygenation events that occurred on Earth billions of years ago.

Yeah, it's either bacteria or nano machines, and I went with bacteria. Though the difference to oxygenation of Earth is that Earth had a dense atmosphere at that point, and oxygen was slowly introduced to it by algae; here, I needed a way to produce a dense atmosphere without plants so that liquid water could exist, so I handwaved some soil-consuming bacteria into existence. THe basic idea is that they would consume oxides (iron and silicon oxides are plentiful on Martian soil), and produce oxygen as their main metabolic product. Don't ask if this is chemically plausible, they're genetically engineered bacteria from the future, they can do whatever I want them to do... :p

Quote
Right here. (http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/reunion.html)

Most of the prose released so far is in the Age of Aquarius Director's Cut techroom at the end of the campaign.

That description's style is somehow... different.

Mostly that's due to different writer. I provided the bulk for this text. Also, this is basically an excerpt from a history book that high school students or maybe university students would read. The other prose is written from significantly different perspective.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Snail on July 01, 2010, 04:45:45 pm
Yeah, it's either bacteria or nano machines, and I went with bacteria. Though the difference to oxygenation of Earth is that Earth had a dense atmosphere at that point, and oxygen was slowly introduced to it by algae; here, I needed a way to produce a dense atmosphere without plants so that liquid water could exist, so I handwaved some soil-consuming bacteria into existence. THe basic idea is that they would consume oxides (iron and silicon oxides are plentiful on Martian soil), and produce oxygen as their main metabolic product. Don't ask if this is chemically plausible, they're genetically engineered bacteria from the future, they can do whatever I want them to do... :p
It's exactly this recklessness that causes the destruction of planets! Xenocide! Planet raping Buntu! Hollowed out comets are the ideal habitat for humans!

...
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 01, 2010, 04:48:30 pm
Mobius: I've been spending the summer at my parents', pretty much stranded from my normal computer, so I haven't been able to do much stuff like texture editing... and we had discussed the status of Mars in length to establish a backstory for the renders of the skybox that you will be seeing. So, to do something remotely productive, I decided to put up this thing.

Using GIMP on this computer is like trying to row a nuclear submarine with a spoon. Submerged.

Well, the analogies with Inferno are interesting. We're also writing descriptions like this,

I know, you asked me to work on them back when you started, because you were impressed with the BP and ED ones.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Droid803 on July 01, 2010, 05:01:24 pm
I don't really understand why would it be deemed "too expensive" and "too slow" to ship required materials like Ammonia or Nitrogen from wherever?
Load up several orion-sized ship with Nitrogen, and trips could be made in fifteen minutes or less. You could probably bring the required amount to make things right in days, (if you have enough transport ships. :P)

The transports ships then aren't useless or anything. You could load them up and proceed to Terraform other planets...

Bacteria might be cheaper (in terms of overhead cost, don't have to build all the transport ships), but I really don't think it'd be faster...certainly not in the long run if you're planning on terraforming every suitable ball of rock you come across.

Or, I might just be totally wrong, but I was under the impression that the only real issues with terraforming is the magnetic field generator, and the transportation, everything else we could basically do "now". You wrote off the magnetic field, and subspace is a pretty damn effective means of transportation.

Though I will say a slow process does add to 'character' more than "look ma, more earths!".
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: The E on July 01, 2010, 05:07:33 pm
The point here is that the terraforming of Mars is something the GTA/UEF could do, not something it needed to do. They decided on following a path that would yield the most reward for the least investment, even if the process would take much, much longer.

Also, small as Mars is, it's still humongous. Shipping gases from somewhere isn't a viable option when you need to fill up a planets' atmosphere.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 01, 2010, 05:08:06 pm
I don't think you get the sheer scale of material required. If you had several Orion-sized ships - which canonically they didn't - it'd probably take centuries to purify, load and transport it all.

I'm fairly certain we release dozens, hundreds maybe of Orion-loads of these elements into Earth's atmosphere every year without major effects.

So I think that yes, you're totally wrong.  :p

Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2010, 05:08:59 pm
Most of the structures outside the deep recession would likely be underground, yes.

However, as far as I see it, mobile habitats simply laid on surface offer a much better option in a situation where water levels are projected to eventually rise to cover much of the northern hemisphere and all the major recesses in the surface. Like mentioned, large amounts of static infrastructure like underground habitats would make no sense, when there's a lot of vacuum-grade containers available that can be easily modified to any atmospheric conditions.

(Plus, it makes building a Martian city criminally easy; take containers, make a bunch of "housing module" textures, put them on the surface. Add some landing pads and some types of other models, and you're basically set. :lol:)

Not that easy when there's a serious rivalry between Martian and Earther engineers/architects.  :drevil:


Yeah, it's either bacteria or nano machines, and I went with bacteria. Though the difference to oxygenation of Earth is that Earth had a dense atmosphere at that point, and oxygen was slowly introduced to it by algae; here, I needed a way to produce a dense atmosphere without plants so that liquid water could exist, so I handwaved some soil-consuming bacteria into existence. THe basic idea is that they would consume oxides (iron and silicon oxides are plentiful on Martian soil), and produce oxygen as their main metabolic product. Don't ask if this is chemically plausible, they're genetically engineered bacteria from the future, they can do whatever I want them to do... :p

Considering my efforts at planning the EA's progress on Nanotech I would never question the plausibility of your invention. I am the one who turns calcium carbonate into super-tough diamond-like armor for ships. :)

I have to say that one of your statements is wrong, though: we owe the oxygenation of Earth's atmosphere to cyanobacteria, not algae. They must have given their contribute at some point, but if you take a look at any book about the Proterozoic's GOE (or better, check this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proterozoic) and this one as well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event)) you wouldn't find any references to algae. I know of the "Are Cyanobacteria algae?" debate, of course, so you're forgiven.  :D

Interesting fact: 1.6% of Mars' atmosphere is made of Argon. Prometheus cannons require that element so that's why the Martians use it very often in INF.  ;)
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 01, 2010, 05:14:02 pm
Cyanobacteria are blue-green algae. The terms are interchangeable. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria)
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: -Norbert- on July 01, 2010, 05:29:24 pm
I like how this article is named "Sol: A History" and was written by professor B. Russell.
Nice nod to the "Sol: A History" campaign made by Blaise Russell  ;)

And thanks for another great piece to satisfly my backstory addiction  :lol:
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 01, 2010, 05:30:08 pm
I don't really understand why would it be deemed "too expensive" and "too slow" to ship required materials like Ammonia or Nitrogen from wherever?
Load up several orion-sized ship with Nitrogen, and trips could be made in fifteen minutes or less. You could probably bring the required amount to make things right in days, (if you have enough transport ships. :P)

The transports ships then aren't useless or anything. You could load them up and proceed to Terraform other planets...

Bacteria might be cheaper (in terms of overhead cost, don't have to build all the transport ships), but I really don't think it'd be faster...certainly not in the long run if you're planning on terraforming every suitable ball of rock you come across.

Or, I might just be totally wrong, but I was under the impression that the only real issues with terraforming is the magnetic field generator, and the transportation, everything else we could basically do "now". You wrote off the magnetic field, and subspace is a pretty damn effective means of transportation.

Though I will say a slow process does add to 'character' more than "look ma, more earths!".

No. Neither we or the GTA could possibly simply ship enough gases (or other materials) to form an entire atmosphere on Mars, much less larger planets. Even with subspace jumps shortening the duration of the traveling, it would still take a lot of reactor fuel, and the volume of transferred gases would still be insufficient due to limited number of ships available.

Planets are [REDACTED] HUGE.

Even the ability to produce a magnetic field of planetary scale is a stretch scientifically, but necessary for the story, as it makes it possible to produce an atmosphere on-site over long period of time. Thankfully, Mars already has a large supply of water, so that's less of an issue.


Mobius: Cyanobacteria are weird things that resist classification, but for everyone's mental health and convenience it's easiest to just call them algae. They might not technically belong to "Algae" according to currently defined taxonomy, but as you said yourself, names can be confusing. Mind you, the algae selected for Martian deployment was of poisonless variety, they made damn sure of that for obvious reasons. Blooming cyanobacteria would be the last thing you would want on your water reservoirs in a rather hostile environment. :p

Another interesting fact - Earth atmosphere has 0.9340% Argon, which means there's several magnitudes more of the stuff available per processed volume of air on Earth...

Also a request - Could we converse of Inferno on Inferno board?
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: The E on July 01, 2010, 05:50:49 pm
Stuff about whether or not Cyanobacteria are algae has been split out. I appreciate the effort, Mobius, but if it looks like an algae, I'm gonna call it an algae, no matter what it's exact scientific classification is.


Also, Pluto is a planet.

EDIT: ANY further posts on the subject of Mobius and algae and bacteria WILL BE SPLIT OUT.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2010, 06:09:56 pm
Stuff about whether or not Cyanobacteria are algae has been split out. I appreciate the effort, Mobius, but if it looks like an algae, I'm gonna call it an algae, no matter what it's exact scientific classification is.

Part of that post was relevant to the topic, I don't understand the reasons behind the split... editing that post may have been enough. I asked Herra if ions or even isotopes would have better chances of remaining in proximity of Mars' soil, without the need of an artificial magnetosphere (which is extremely difficult to create).


P.S.
I'm sending an e-mail to an expert and I hope he'll reply very soon.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 01, 2010, 06:12:54 pm
Ionized gases don't work like that as they have electric charge. Heavier isotopes could technically work but stable heavy isotopes are typically rare and, again, I must stress the scale of planets. As to the need of a magnetosphere... Gas molecules "leak" from upper atmosphere as they reach escape velocity. Mars has much smaller escape velocity than Earth and also needs thicker atmosphere to produce same surface pressure. Magnetic field stops most of solar wind from impacting has molecules which reduces their chances of acquiring escape velocity greatly. Magnetic field also gathers ionized particles to van allen belts and their interaction with upper atmosphere is not fully understood yet. The alternative to magnetic field is a steady stream of gases to supplant the losses to solar wind.

Also, it would be impossible for GTA to ship any meaningful amounts of gases as an atmosphere. Even shipping it cryogenically stored would not produce any significant results.

And while I don't really mind discussing the analogies between mods, I'd like this thread to be about our Mars. I'll be glad to compare them further in a separate thread.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: The E on July 01, 2010, 06:14:25 pm
Stuff about whether or not Cyanobacteria are algae has been split out. I appreciate the effort, Mobius, but if it looks like an algae, I'm gonna call it an algae, no matter what it's exact scientific classification is.

Part of that post was relevant to the topic, I don't understand the reasons behind the split... editing that post may have been enough. I asked Herra if ions or even isotopes would have better chances of remaining in proximity of Mars' soil, without the need of an artificial magnetosphere (which is extremely difficult to create).


P.S.
I'm sending an e-mail to an expert and I hope he'll reply very soon.

I will let this one stay in here, but as I said above, ANY further discussion along the lines of whether or not cyanobacteria are bacteria or algae will be split out. And no, I don't particularly care whether or not a post is partially relevant to this topic.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2010, 06:21:34 pm
Ionized gases don't work like that as they have electric charge. Heavier isotopes could technically work but stable heavy isotopes are typically rare and, again, I must stress the scale of planets. As to the need of a magnetosphere... Gas molecules "leak" from upper atmosphere as they reach escape velocity. Mars has much smaller escape velocity than Earth and also needs thicker atmosphere to produce same surface pressure. Magnetic field stops most of solar wind from impacting has molecules which reduces their chances of acquiring escape velocity greatly. Magnetic field also gathers ionized particles to van allen belts and their interaction with upper atmosphere is not fully understood yet. The alternative to magnetic field is a steady stream of gases to supplant the losses to solar wind.

Would immense greenhouses help maintaining the artificial atmosphere where it is, at least in regions of critical importance? It should be fairly easy to "cover" vast regions of the surface and "save" the artificial atmosphere.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 01, 2010, 06:36:58 pm
Ionized gases don't work like that as they have electric charge. Heavier isotopes could technically work but stable heavy isotopes are typically rare and, again, I must stress the scale of planets. As to the need of a magnetosphere... Gas molecules "leak" from upper atmosphere as they reach escape velocity. Mars has much smaller escape velocity than Earth and also needs thicker atmosphere to produce same surface pressure. Magnetic field stops most of solar wind from impacting has molecules which reduces their chances of acquiring escape velocity greatly. Magnetic field also gathers ionized particles to van allen belts and their interaction with upper atmosphere is not fully understood yet. The alternative to magnetic field is a steady stream of gases to supplant the losses to solar wind.

Would immense greenhouses help maintaining the artificial atmosphere where it is, at least in regions of critical importance? It should be fairly easy to "cover" vast regions of the surface and "save" the artificial atmosphere.

...

:lol:
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2010, 06:39:46 pm
Ruggero Leoncavallo for the win.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: The E on July 01, 2010, 06:41:25 pm
To explain that  :lol:, read the text again. They are already producing more oxygen than they lose, and have a breathable (if somewhat unpleasant) atmosphere in the lowlands of Mars. They don't need domes anymore.

Domes would also run counter to the semi-nomadic approach to citybuilding the martians have adopted.

Ruggero Leoncavallo for the win.
:wtf: wat
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2010, 06:42:57 pm
In later stages of terraforming, yeah. With the artificial magnetosphere set up, yeah.

But before the two things mentioned above? That's what I would like to know. :)
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 01, 2010, 06:43:19 pm
They do have some domes in the safer areas, though.

In later stages of terraforming, yeah. With the artificial magnetosphere set up, yeah.

But before the two things mentioned above? That's what I would like to know. :)

Mobius, what you suggested was the construction of huge domes.

It's not exactly a new idea.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Aardwolf on July 01, 2010, 09:26:27 pm
ON (META-)TOPIC:

Are you guys gonna be compiling all this stuff together, along with the next release or something?
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Mongoose on July 02, 2010, 12:56:50 am
This is just awesome.  Really great stuff, Herra. :) And haa, Dwarf Fortress. :D

(I thoroughly approve of the names right above that dam. :yes:)
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: asyikarea51 on July 02, 2010, 02:23:21 am
Lacus what?
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 02, 2010, 02:42:59 am
Lacus what?

Internment camp?
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: asyikarea51 on July 02, 2010, 03:01:13 am
Naah, it just struck me. I was feeling a bit random at the time I saw that word while scanning through the text and posted that. Sorry. XD

:nervous:
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Snail on July 02, 2010, 06:42:43 am
Lacus what?
Internment camp?
Lots of people get thrown in there.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 02, 2010, 01:14:43 pm
Am I the only one who noticed the Oxys-Ultor Threat Workshop?

Oh, and it seems to me like the evolutionary adaptation to the climate happened rather quickly and spontaneously, which is unusual since I don't believe evolution works that way.  How would those genes get selected for?  Are you sure there wasn't any genetic modification going on?
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 02, 2010, 01:22:32 pm
Am I the only one who noticed the Oxys-Ultor Threat Workshop?

Oh, and it seems to me like the evolutionary adaptation to the climate happened rather quickly and spontaneously, which is unusual since I don't believe evolution works that way.  How would those genes get selected for?  Are you sure there wasn't any genetic modification going on?

Good question, but addressed:

Quote
Most of the changes are still basic acclimation to the environment, which is not caused by the genotype - there has simply not been enough time for significant evolutionary differences to develop. Medical statistics do show that people who have high-altitude ancestry do tend to acclimate faster and better to the conditions on Mars.

Good thinking though.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 02, 2010, 03:09:18 pm
Also, the initial martian colonists most likely went through a number of health checks and acclimation tests.

People from high altitude environments would have done better in those tests, resulting in statistical anomaly of some importance. As a result, the martian colonists as a population were not average Earthers, but had somewhat higher percentage of people from high altitudes. Then there's the amount of initial colonists who simply couldn't or wouldn't adapt to the conditions, and again this percentage would be higher within the "lowlander" parts of the population.

And there have already been several generations of Mars-borne people, which means the initial higher percentage of "highlander" genes (and the first one to utter the pun will be cleft in twain with a claymore) have spread to the population. Add the time when Mars was socially and economically almost isolated from Earth and other parts of GTA. The population of Mars stayed static during that time, but that doesn't mean no one left it. Those who felt it was too harsh left, those who could and wanted to stay, did so.

Note that this doesn't mean everyone on Mars was a space sherpa, but a statistically significant part of population had some of the traits associated to high altitude populations. One of the sources I used here. (http://jp.physoc.org/content/556/2/661.full)

After the collapse of Delta Serpentis node, the new colonists are more representative of the entire human population of Earth. However, simply due to practical reasons the portion of colonists who have genetic heritage from Andes or Tibetan areas is slightly over-represented.

Please don't mistake this as eugenics of any sort or even selective breeding, it's simply what I would expect to happen quite naturally. Also, it's still not all of Martian colonists that have these traits, more like 10-20% at the most - and that's of the population before the Great War and subsequent influx of new immigrants. There are no reliable statistics of the genetic diversity of Martian demographics available at the moment.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Aardwolf on July 02, 2010, 03:24:32 pm
Who is "Karen Ng'Mei" and why's she got a cabin near Candor Chasma?
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 02, 2010, 03:35:40 pm
Who is "Karen Ng'Mei" and why's she got a cabin near Candor Chasma?

Good spot.  :yes:
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Snail on July 02, 2010, 03:36:01 pm
Please don't mistake this as eugenics of any sort or even selective breeding, it's simply what I would expect to happen quite naturally. Also, it's still not all of Martian colonists that have these traits, more like 10-20% at the most - and that's of the population before the Great War and subsequent influx of new immigrants. There are no reliable statistics of the genetic diversity of Martian demographics available at the moment.
Excellent fodder for GTVA propaganda...

Who is "Karen Ng'Mei" and why's she got a cabin near Candor Chasma?
"Karen Ng'Mei" isn't a person, it's a corporation that produces the induction coils for UEF power plants. The "cabin" is a small industrial estate.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Tomo on July 02, 2010, 04:16:50 pm
Several suggestions were considered, among them shipping nitrogen from the Venusian atmosphere, which was eventually deemed too slow to produce actual results in meaningful time.
This is rather nit-picky, but Venus has no nitrogen to speak of - the atmosphere is almost entirely CO2 (>96%).

However, Titan's atmosphere is >98% nitrogen, which is probably the place you were thinking of.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 02, 2010, 04:34:51 pm
Several suggestions were considered, among them shipping nitrogen from the Venusian atmosphere, which was eventually deemed too slow to produce actual results in meaningful time.
This is rather nit-picky, but Venus has no nitrogen to speak of - the atmosphere is almost entirely CO2 (>96%).

However, Titan's atmosphere is >98% nitrogen, which is probably the place you were thinking of.

I hate to get super nit-picky, mate, but Venus has more abundant available nitrogen than Earth by a margin, in no small part due to the insane pressure it maintains - there's just a lot of atmosphere period down there. This makes it not a half bad pick for the process.

Titan may have had concerns of its own (note what ended up happening on Europa in the BPverse.)
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 02, 2010, 04:45:49 pm
Whoops, and looking at the numbers (double post for update notice, btw) it looks like Venus may end up with more nitrogen per unit area than Titan too.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 02, 2010, 06:04:38 pm
Excellent. My secret educational plan is proceeding exactly as planned.

I hoped that someone would question some of the more surprising stuff hidden in the text. This is one of them. Venus, despite the small percentage of nitrogen still has larger absolute amount of it than Earth or Titan because the atmosphere is insanely dense and thick. Also like Battuta said, the nitrogen in Titan is better left where it is. An outer solar system moon with denser atmo than earth definitely has its uses. It would be easier to utilize than jovian moons too, since radiation is much weaker around saturn than jupiter... Of course operating in venusian atmosphere would be hard as [REDACTED]. Which is why the idea was abandoned. Along with lacking transportation capacity.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Tomo on July 03, 2010, 05:53:49 am
While I'll accept that Venus may have a larger *total* amount of Nitrogen (given the relative atmospheric densities), that is completely irrelevant.

How do you harvest it?

The hardest part of extracting the 78% nitrogen from Earth's atmosphere is that you have to throw out the CO2 and oxygen first as you cool and pressurise the sample.
- As we're also interested in liquid oxygen, we are throwing away less than 1% of the sample.

Extracting the 3.5% Nitrogen on Venus would mean throwing out 96.5% of what you capture and process.
- Thus the energy budget is extremely high per unit of 'useful gas'.

On Titan on the other hand, you are throwing out less than 2% of what you capture and process.
- Admittedly, it's mostly methane which is a bit 'gummy' to handle in liquid form, but that's really a cleaning challenge rather than a significant energy cost.

So really, you would be laughed out of the building for suggesting harvesting N2 from Venus - while there is a lot there in total, you aren't going to be able to *get* it.

If you suggested bringing it from Titan, they'd listen to you and then point out that bulk transport of atmospheric gases to try to bulk out the Martian atmosphere would take far too long to have any noticeable effect - either on the source or the destination.

- On the other hand, I have ignored the delta-v requirements. But those don't appear to apply in the FreeSpace universe anyway.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 03, 2010, 06:20:46 am
While I'll accept that Venus may have a larger *total* amount of Nitrogen (given the relative atmospheric densities), that is completely irrelevant.

Not really when the operation is done in the scale of practically inserting an entire atmosphere on another planet. You wouldn't want to ship Earth's nitrogen to Mars (what would be left on Earth?) and Titan is better off with its own atmosphere. Like I said, an outer solar system moon with denser atmosphere than Earth definitely has its uses, even if it is a tad bit cold for immediate colonization.

Quote
How do you harvest it?

Build large city-zeppelins that float in the upper atmosphere of Venus, lower risers/pipes to lower atmosphere, pump up the gas, separate the gases with either centrifugal or cryogenic methods. If they can generate a magnetic field and rip holes to space-time continuum, energy is the least of concerns in FreeSpace universe. Abundance of raw materials and construction costs of collecting/transportation units would be the limiting factor.

Quote
The hardest part of extracting the 78% nitrogen from Earth's atmosphere is that you have to throw out the CO2 and oxygen first as you cool and pressurise the sample.
- As we're also interested in liquid oxygen, we are throwing away less than 1% of the sample.

Yes - and moving significant volume to Mars would make an equally significant dent on Earth's atmosphere.

Remember that Mars has much lower surface gravity, so you need a much higher gas pillar to generate sufficient static pressure on the surface, so you need relatively large amounts of gas in that atmosphere...


Quote
Extracting the 3.5% Nitrogen on Venus would mean throwing out 96.5% of what you capture and process.
- Thus the energy budget is extremely high per unit of 'useful gas'.

Except that frozen CO2 will definitely have uses as well. Inserting additional carbon and oxygen to Mars would also be beneficial. Not only would it warm up the planet, but plantation would eventually bind the carbon and release oxygen; however, GTA wanted more immediate results, therefore the bacteria was designed to produce almost exclusively pure oxygen to increase the partial pressure of oxygen to levels where it can saturate human blood and avoid hypoxia after proper acclimatization to altitude, while raising absolute pressure to levels tolerable to human soft tissues.

Prolonged exposure with no protective gear still can cause something like a full body love bite, so mechanical pressure suits and partially pressurized face masks with small compressors are often used especially for high performance tasks outside.

Quote
On Titan on the other hand, you are throwing out less than 2% of what you capture and process.
- Admittedly, it's mostly methane which is a bit 'gummy' to handle in liquid form, but that's really a cleaning challenge rather than a significant energy cost.

And, like previously pointed out, it's more useful where it currently is.

Quote
So really, you would be laughed out of the building for suggesting harvesting N2 from Venus - while there is a lot there in total, you aren't going to be able to *get* it.

Pay attention to the actual amount of gas in question.

Calculate how much gas would be needed to produce surface pressure of Earth altitude equivalent 2400-3000 metres on MArtian surface. Then calculate how much gas is in Earth and Titan respectively.

Venus is the best source of nitrogen (and CO2) simply because there's so much of it that it would be enough to provide atmospheres for Mars and all Jovian moons and still be too dense to make colonization possible.

Quote
If you suggested bringing it from Titan, they'd listen to you and then point out that bulk transport of atmospheric gases to try to bulk out the Martian atmosphere would take far too long to have any noticeable effect - either on the source or the destination.

- On the other hand, I have ignored the delta-v requirements. But those don't appear to apply in the FreeSpace universe anyway.

Yep, delta v requirements don't matter much in FreeSpace due to subspace. Energy of transportation and amount of transportation units matters more - they have limited amounts of ships so they would never be able to transport meaningful volumes anyway, regardless of the source of the gas. That was the main factor that contributed to abandoning that plan.

Which is not to say that there's no activity on Venus... :drevil:
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 03, 2010, 01:31:45 pm
In addition to all the stuff HerraTohtori remembered, think about the consequences of massive nitrogen removal on Titan.

Then think about what ended up happening on Europa in the BPverse.

They had reason to be cautious.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Snail on July 03, 2010, 01:51:27 pm
In addition to all the stuff HerraTohtori remembered, think about the consequences of massive nitrogen removal on Titan.

Then think about what ended up happening on Europa in the BPverse.

They had reason to be cautious.
Planet raping buntu I live in a comet!
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: -Norbert- on July 04, 2010, 03:55:45 pm
Quote
Then think about what ended up happening on Europa in the BPverse.
I'd love to think about that. So what did happen on Europa?
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 04, 2010, 03:58:31 pm
Quote
Then think about what ended up happening on Europa in the BPverse.
I'd love to think about that. So what did happen on Europa?

It was not pleasant. Read the prose to find out...
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 04, 2010, 07:09:19 pm
Quote
Then think about what ended up happening on Europa in the BPverse.
I'd love to think about that. So what did happen on Europa?

I think it's alluded to in the posted prose. Search for 'Europa'!
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Iss Mneur on July 04, 2010, 10:01:58 pm
Quote
Then think about what ended up happening on Europa in the BPverse.
I'd love to think about that. So what did happen on Europa?

I think it's alluded to in the posted prose. Search for 'Europa'!

'Europa' is not mentioned by name in the OP or any other post in this thread.  Nor is Jupiter.

Searching for 'Europa' does not find anything relevant with the site search (some INFA, and other mods, but nothing from BP).  Nor does the BP website give any prose beyond the Tech Database.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: The E on July 04, 2010, 10:09:06 pm
Look at the BP site's media section. There, you will find a "Prose" category. In that, there's a dossier about the UEF. In it, you will find your answer.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 04, 2010, 10:24:57 pm
Quote
Then think about what ended up happening on Europa in the BPverse.
I'd love to think about that. So what did happen on Europa?

I think it's alluded to in the posted prose. Search for 'Europa'!

'Europa' is not mentioned by name in the OP or any other post in this thread.  Nor is Jupiter.

Searching for 'Europa' does not find anything relevant with the site search (some INFA, and other mods, but nothing from BP).  Nor does the BP website give any prose beyond the Tech Database.

Sorry, ambiguity - I meant the prose posted on the BP website.

I think we could make that prose a bit more accessible.

edit: wow it's REALLY hard to find D:
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on July 05, 2010, 12:49:33 am
Iss Mneur and others curious about the Europa incident, check here. (http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/ubuntufaq2.html)
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Snail on July 05, 2010, 05:44:58 am
Just in case you're the uber lazy type:

Quote
Europa’s subsurface oceans, the source of liquid water for the entire Jovian system, were tainted by faulty desalinization equipment in 2337. The resulting die-off of native species, branded as xenocide, led ecosensitive colonists to arm their ships and flock to the banner of the extremist Gaian Effort.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: -Norbert- on July 05, 2010, 06:34:33 am
Oh... the FAQ style thingie.... I remember reading it, but with the wealth of information in there, that little snipped must have slipped my mind. Thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Ypoknons on July 06, 2010, 12:06:53 am
The literal translation into Cantonese for Karen Ng'Mei is Karen Not Beautiful.  :D
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Darius on July 06, 2010, 12:17:27 am
Or beautiful five :P
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: saintDane on August 31, 2019, 08:01:36 pm
I get a heavy Kim Stanley Robinson vibe, particularly the Red Mars series, from the terraforming descriptions, as well as the in game descriptions from Noemi's visit to planet. Did inspiration come from there, or just coincidence?
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: Nightmare on August 31, 2019, 08:17:34 pm
Hi there~ :)
I can't awnser your question but maybe just start a new thread next time? :nod:
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: TechnoD11 on August 31, 2019, 10:01:19 pm
Well this is a necro and a half. Forgot this was written but read it again anyway cause BP lore.

 :P
Title: Re: Know your Sol: History of Martian Terraforming and Colonization
Post by: General Battuta on August 31, 2019, 10:34:24 pm
No, this is the right thread for it. I don't know if Red Mars was a direct inspiration on Herra; I haven't read it myself but I've heard it's very good.