Hard Light Productions Forums

Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Darius on August 07, 2010, 07:11:13 am

Title: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Darius on August 07, 2010, 07:11:13 am
This is the first half of War in Heaven. We are tremendously grateful to all of you for your help, support, and advice. We hope that you enjoy this campaign as much as we have enjoyed the creative process. This really has been a labour of love. We owe special thanks to our fellow modders and to the Source Code Project and FreeSpace Upgrade Project teams for their patience and generosity.

Players should be aware that many of the assets in War in Heaven need another coat of polish; many of the ships in the campaign lack proper LODs, debris and texture optimization. Expect reduced performance. We would like to ask for the community's help in optimizing these models. If you would like to help us out, please send a private message to Esarai (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=6586).

As always, my utmost thanks to the team for being a pleasure to work with, and my apologies to everyone else for the delay in getting this out :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: m!m on August 07, 2010, 07:15:06 am
Thank you for the release and I'm sure the waiting was worth it  :yes: :yes:

Now I just have to get a joystick to play this... :warp:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Mobius on August 07, 2010, 07:22:35 am
I need the latest MVPs to play it, right?

Downloading now.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: carbine7 on August 07, 2010, 07:28:44 am
Despite the fact that it's currently 5 in the morning.....

DOWNLOADING!
Oops, forgot, my joystick is broken. Well, guess I know what I'm doing first thing in the morning....
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: BlackDove on August 07, 2010, 07:41:20 am
Congratulations on this release! :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: carbine7 on August 07, 2010, 07:43:05 am
You know what? Screw it, I'm playing with the broken joystick! I can wait another couple hours to fix it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 07, 2010, 07:44:02 am
First Half?



I'm gonna wait til part 2 is out then play it all in one go :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 07, 2010, 07:46:00 am
Your loss  :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 07, 2010, 07:46:36 am
For real-time discussion you can hop on to BP's irc channel (http://irc://irc.esper.net/bp). Also, here's Mibbit link (http://widget.mibbit.com/?settings=b73fe961ed217d9a3cbd9637dc7ba9bf&server=irc.esper.net&channel=%bp&noServerTab=false) for using irc in your web browser.

Edit: Damned forums always put http in front of the first irc link, it's supposed to be irc://irc.esper.net/bp
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 07, 2010, 07:51:38 am
Your loss  :D

Honestly, it's too much to get in one day at home. So i'll wait til i get to work and save it to my 64GB stick.

edit- patches and re-downloads, MVPS and the like. I'm busy all weekend so work will suffer my skiving on monday rather than my admin today :yes:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 07, 2010, 08:33:19 am
All these releases are seriously impeding my editing progress on TopAce's campaign.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 07, 2010, 09:36:40 am
On this day at this defining moment something happened.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 10:31:08 am
hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrngh so nervous

All I can think about is stuff we could have done to improve things further. Worryworryworryworry.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Mobius on August 07, 2010, 10:34:20 am
You can always add them to future patches... :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 10:34:58 am
They always tell me, 'Save it for the Director's Cut!'

I'm just an anxious mother.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: [Wolf]Maverick on August 07, 2010, 10:40:04 am
I have to say, truely epic...
the whole team did a wonderful job, for me the best Freespace2 Mod so far.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 07, 2010, 10:45:35 am
the whole team did a wonderful job, for me the best Freespace2 Mod so far.
I agree
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: pecenipicek on August 07, 2010, 10:46:35 am
hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrngh so nervous

All I can think about is stuff we could have done to improve things further. Worryworryworryworry.
you'll get feedback once people go through it. if its anything like AoA, everyone will be pleased, if not, it can go either up or down.


also curse you for not making a unified download. i always hated these chipped up dl's that seem so popular to people.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 07, 2010, 10:47:34 am
the whole team did a wonderful job, for me the best Freespace2 Mod so far.
I agree

I look forward to agreeing in a week or two.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 10:48:07 am
hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrngh so nervous

All I can think about is stuff we could have done to improve things further. Worryworryworryworry.
you'll get feedback once people go through it. if its anything like AoA, everyone will be pleased, if not, it can go either up or down.


also curse you for not making a unified download. i always hated these chipped up dl's that seem so popular to people.

Unifieds are coming, but as the recent patch shows there's advantages to splitting it up.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: pecenipicek on August 07, 2010, 10:48:50 am
hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrngh so nervous

All I can think about is stuff we could have done to improve things further. Worryworryworryworry.
you'll get feedback once people go through it. if its anything like AoA, everyone will be pleased, if not, it can go either up or down.


also curse you for not making a unified download. i always hated these chipped up dl's that seem so popular to people.

Unifieds are coming, but as the recent patch shows there's advantages to splitting it up.
Like what? Patching all up when update time nears?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 10:49:42 am
Here's my genuine review of the campaign  :nervous:

Spoiler:
Too much text! We did everything we could to make it flow well, including dialogue skips and checkpoints, but ultimately this campaign is written as if it's voice acted and it's not. Flow may be damaged by the probable need to either constantly check the message box or to go back and look through logs after combat.

This campaign really needs some voice acting.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: pecenipicek on August 07, 2010, 10:57:28 am
Here's my genuine review of the campaign  :nervous:

Spoiler:
Too much text! We did everything we could to make it flow well, including dialogue skips and checkpoints, but ultimately this campaign is written as if it's voice acted and it's not. Flow may be damaged by the probable need to either constantly check the message box or to go back and look through logs after combat.

This campaign really needs some voice acting.
Spoiler:
dammit. :p

i had hoped the awesome voiceacting from AoA would be back.



may i offer my services for VA then? :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 07, 2010, 10:57:57 am
Here's my genuine review of the campaign  :nervous:

Spoiler:
Too much text! We did everything we could to make it flow well, including dialogue skips and checkpoints, but ultimately this campaign is written as if it's voice acted and it's not. Flow may be damaged by the probable need to either constantly check the message box or to go back and look through logs after combat.

This campaign really needs some voice acting.

Don't tell me TTS doesn't work.... =\
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 07, 2010, 10:59:09 am
Review: This is a good campaign. Play it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 11:02:14 am
Here's my genuine review of the campaign  :nervous:

Spoiler:
Too much text! We did everything we could to make it flow well, including dialogue skips and checkpoints, but ultimately this campaign is written as if it's voice acted and it's not. Flow may be damaged by the probable need to either constantly check the message box or to go back and look through logs after combat.

This campaign really needs some voice acting.

Don't tell me TTS doesn't work.... =\

Mixed bag. We did last-minute crash debugging on TTS. It'll work on all messages from fighters. Unfortunately it will ignore messages from capships and any messages using special alarm sounds ironically designed to grab player attention during battle.

We're working on a code-side fix for this problem.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 07, 2010, 11:13:34 am
I volunteer for a TEV CAP.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 07, 2010, 11:15:01 am
YEEEEAAAAH!

I hope that in general, people agree that this campaign is good enough to merit spam posts such as this one.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Firartix on August 07, 2010, 11:22:13 am
Yohey. I recall downloading something like blueplanet-3612 not that far ago, which was a version of AoA director's cut including as well stuff like gliding and improved AI. It was however requiring a non-stable .12 build (that was several months ago).
Will that version still work with the new AoA (i'm redownloading it atm) ? And will it work with WiH too ?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 11:23:10 am
Yohey. I recall downloading something like blueplanet-3612 not that far ago, which was a version of AoA director's cut including as well stuff like gliding and improved AI. It was however requiring a non-stable .12 build (that was several months ago).
Will that version still work with the new AoA (i'm redownloading it atm) ? And will it work with WiH too ?

Please see the instructions in the AoA release topic (which basically say 'delete it, it don't work no more'.)

Make sure you have the AoA patch released yesterday.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 07, 2010, 11:26:13 am
Yohey. I recall downloading something like blueplanet-3612 not that far ago, which was a version of AoA director's cut including as well stuff like gliding and improved AI. It was however requiring a non-stable .12 build (that was several months ago).
Will that version still work with the new AoA (i'm redownloading it atm) ? And will it work with WiH too ?
Please refer to the actual release topic of the 3.6.12 Feature Pack.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68214.msg1399077#msg1399077

In short, it is unsupported, won't work with WiH and you should delete it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Firartix on August 07, 2010, 11:27:51 am
myeah i'm idiot, i noticed the other post right after sending that one message ._.
Thanks anyway. I'll install it and come back to comment/whine once i get it to work D:
Question by the way, are the AI/Balance/Glide features from the Feature Pack included in another form into the new AoA or WiH ? I recall playing with gliding AI was quite fun o.o

Maybe i should stop finishing every sentence with a smiley, by the way  :blah:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 07, 2010, 11:31:53 am
For AoA there won't be officially supported method to enable advanced AI, in WiH it is used everywhere. Glide is not used in WiH. And no, there will not be anything like 3.6.12 Feature Pack coming for WiH. Not from me at the very least.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 11:35:58 am
It could be fun to build a version of the glide feature pack extended to WiH, but it's not a team priority at the moment.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 07, 2010, 11:38:47 am
That's so piss easy to do that it's not even funny. But I don't really want to, those optional downloads always cause trouble later down in the road. Right now I wish I hadn't done the Feature Pack for AoA.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: starbug on August 07, 2010, 11:40:16 am
Downloaded it,  and wow this is amazing, i love the intro, nice use of freedom fighters track. Ships, effects are brillant!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: sigtau on August 07, 2010, 12:13:00 pm
Downloading now.

i love the intro, nice use of freedom fighters track. Ships, effects are brillant!

SPOILERS LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 07, 2010, 12:15:06 pm
YES! ****ING HELL YES! OH MY GOD WOOT!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ransom on August 07, 2010, 12:16:00 pm
Well, hello there.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 07, 2010, 12:29:20 pm
Does War in Heaven have cockpit view ?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 12:39:00 pm
Does War in Heaven have cockpit view ?

Not by default. You could enable it with a simple .tbm.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 07, 2010, 12:40:17 pm
Does War in Heaven have cockpit view ?

Not by default. You could enable it with a simple .tbm.

Does that mean, you have high poly version of Cockpit view or the default one ?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 07, 2010, 12:44:24 pm
All of the player-flyable ships have high-resolution cockpits by default. But, as Battuta said, you need to enable this via tbm.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: shiv on August 07, 2010, 01:55:08 pm
Yay! Awesomness! Downloading now! ;7
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: bigchunk1 on August 07, 2010, 01:59:37 pm
Whoa it's out!?! Well, I know what i'm doing today...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 07, 2010, 02:02:48 pm
So stoked that the window to start the download doesn't even show up.
I thought 256k was faster than 64k, guess I was wrong, **** these Iraqi ISPs.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 07, 2010, 02:05:25 pm
I'm getting an error about the sound.tbls.

Code: [Select]
sounds.tbl(line 342:
Error: Missing required token: [#Flyby Sounds End]. Found [$UEF: 1 T_flyby2.wav, 0, 0.75, ]  instead.

kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>

Is this a problem with my FS2 Open install (the <no symbol> thing), or some part of my BP install?  I'm redownloading my bp2-audio1 file just in case.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 07, 2010, 02:14:08 pm
Please read the release post carefully, and make sure that you follow every item on the checklist.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 07, 2010, 02:29:31 pm
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT DLing :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 07, 2010, 02:31:05 pm
Found it!  Turns out my mediavps_3612 directory had an extra folder in it, making it "mediavps_3612 -> mediavps_3612 -> files" which doesn't work too well.  My fault for not checking after I unzipped stuff.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 07, 2010, 03:00:51 pm
1.  Intro was outstanding.
2.  use of music in missions is phenomenal
3.  How the hell do these checkpoints work?  I failed a secondary objective and I was hoping I wouldn't have to start the mission from the beginning...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 07, 2010, 03:19:47 pm
Checkpoints are generally set after some significant event in the mission. They're also not present in every mission (they require player-persistant variables, of which there are only 100, and at the moment we're using 93). In general, they're set up so that if you have unlocked one, you can be sure that you can continue the campaign when reloading from the checkpoint.

To activate one that you have unlocked, you need to open the comm menu at the beginning of the mission, and select the checkpoint from the reinforcements menu.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: aceraptor on August 07, 2010, 03:21:11 pm
I got a problem... I followed all the steps to the letter, the game started good, the movie went great, then it got to the next part, a journal entree?

And I got this

Could not load in FictionViewer-m!
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 49 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>

I press ok and it goes to the entree then I cant advance any further. I try to click the button to proceed but no luck.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 07, 2010, 03:21:55 pm
Read the release post. Make sure you follow all items on the checklist. This error probably means that you do not have the new mediavps installed correctly.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: FelixJim on August 07, 2010, 03:46:38 pm
player-persistant variables, of which there are only 100
Off topic: What. Really? I might have to rethink an idea or two...unless this is being addressed by the new pilot code? </wishing>
On topic: Yay! Oh, hang on. I really need to get around to installing a larger hard drive, what with this and the new mediavps. Will be DLing when that's done though.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 07, 2010, 04:02:53 pm
All of the player-flyable ships have high-resolution cockpits by default. But, as Battuta said, you need to enable this via tbm.

High Res, you said ? :p

(http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/752d8685-219e-4bd1-af91-1f213e6fa3b2.jpg) (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/752d8685-219e-4bd1-af91-1f213e6fa3b2.jpg)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 04:06:24 pm
Cockpits are whatever is present on the model. BP by and large uses only public assets, we try to optimize and improve stuff but we have never really added new stuff like cockpits.

If someone wants to model cockpits for those ships it'd be awesome.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 04:09:07 pm
1.  Intro was outstanding.
2.  use of music in missions is phenomenal
3.  How the hell do these checkpoints work?  I failed a secondary objective and I was hoping I wouldn't have to start the mission from the beginning...

You will be notified every time you unlock a checkpoint and upon mission start if you have a checkpoint available in the mission.

It appears that notification for the m01 checkpoint is broken. I am fixing.

UPDATE: Checkpoint notification for m01 was broken because an event accidentally became chained due to a certain clumsy bat mis-clicking prior to release. The fix is now in, but it'll have to wait for the first patch. In the meantime, m01 checkpoint can be activated after it is unlocked by going to the reinforcements menu in the first 15 seconds of the mission.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 07, 2010, 04:20:48 pm
I got a problem... I followed all the steps to the letter, the game started good, the movie went great, then it got to the next part, a journal entree?

And I got this

Could not load in FictionViewer-m!
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 49 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>

I press ok and it goes to the entree then I cant advance any further. I try to click the button to proceed but no luck.

Make sure all the mediavp files are actually in the first mediavps folder (the one in the freespace main directory) and not in a second mediavps folder in the first one.  That's where I was getting my problem, at least. :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 07, 2010, 04:23:52 pm
For those who are interested about Cockpit View, just grab the attach file.



[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 04:28:25 pm
For those who are interested about Cockpit View, just grab the attach file.

Awesome, thanks. I'll have the team take a look at this and include it as an option in the release post.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: pecenipicek on August 07, 2010, 04:52:12 pm
GOD ****ING DAMNIT!



Spoiler:
I'm at the Saturn mission and FSO LOCKS UP ON ME! RIGHT IN THE MOST FRIGGIN EPIC MOMENT OF THE FRIGGIN CAMPAIGN SO FAR!!!! GOD ****ING DAMNIT!


*sighs*


need a breather.


All in all Epic campaign is Epic and, if i may be so bold, the BP team raised the bar for excellence even higher. Stop doing that or the other mod teams will have trouble catching up :D


VERY HAPPY with what i've seen sofar, i'm waiting to finish the game before taking a crack at reading all thats in the tech room tho.



also, WHERE the hell are the initial GTVA deserters? Surely they brought in a lot of firepower, and thats what Byrne is counting on i guess. He's still a huge dick. that engagement when the Imperioussomethingsomething (convoluted name for me to spell :P ) needs even MOAR DAKKA then is present at the moment.


My crash has nothing to do with anything either team did (MVP and BP), its just one of those "play for five hours or more, then crash and burn sucka" things that have been around since i first started using SCP (bout 5 years ago)

stopping now to let my head cool off a bit.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 04:56:21 pm
Yay!
/me hugs pecenipicek

Tell us immediately if the lockup recurs. I pray it's not a PPV issue.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: pecenipicek on August 07, 2010, 05:01:18 pm
Yay!
/me hugs pecenipicek

Tell us immediately if the lockup recurs. I pray it's not a PPV issue.
its not, as i've said, the lockup is one of the longerstanding things that have never been quite put a finger on, aka "I've noticed it happen with every build with every mod after extensive gameplay" meaning, i've been seeing it for the last 5 years since i'm using FSO and on average i get 4-6 hours of stability with FSO and the lockup almost always happens when something gets blown up. i seriously doubt its anything that can be covered with a simple bug-report and i think it would take a loooot of tracking down to get it, and then again, i'm one of the rare ****ers who can actually stand playing for more than 2-3 hours at a time.


[edit]also, there's one problem with the mainhall, when opening it, nothing lights up when i mouse-over it. (the continue, barracks, tech room, etc etc)


thats the one glaringly obvious thing that hit me, but no biggie since everything afterwards was worth it :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: redsniper on August 07, 2010, 05:03:01 pm
Not reading the thread in case of spoils. Just want to say, I'm two missions in and already loving it. The writing is gold.

Quote
[15:09] <redsniper> omg
[15:10] <redsniper> they've done something right with WiH
[15:11] <redsniper> found myself swearing under my breath when a freighter I was escorting got blown up
[15:11] <redsniper> not because I failed, but just... because
[15:15] <@The_E> redsniper: Awesome
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dark Hunter on August 07, 2010, 05:04:08 pm
I haven't played through the whole thing yet, but so far this is pure win. Really brings new dimensions to Freespace combat.

The story is good too. I love a game with a good plot, so this mod is pretty much a dream come true. The fact that you can choose dialogue options also helps improve the immersion very well. The one thing that would make this absolutely golden is voice acting, but I assume that's coming later.

Also may I just say that
Spoiler:
Kitten Picture

was the funniest damn thing ever. :wakka:
I was laughing for a good five minutes after that.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: pecenipicek on August 07, 2010, 05:04:37 pm
Not reading the thread in case of spoils. Just want to say, I'm two missions in and already loving it. The writing is gold.

Quote
[15:09] <redsniper> omg
[15:10] <redsniper> they've done something right with WiH
[15:11] <redsniper> found myself swearing under my breath when a freighter I was escorting got blown up
[15:11] <redsniper> not because I failed, but just... because
[15:15] <@The_E> redsniper: Awesome
You my dear friend havent seen **** yet. :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IronBeer on August 07, 2010, 05:15:19 pm
Just began download.

There is no way WiH can be anything but epic. I know where my evening is going. 
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 07, 2010, 05:19:32 pm
Safe to say it's been five hours now and I still can't get visual1 to download. :doubt: Only got core so far.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: pecenipicek on August 07, 2010, 05:19:43 pm
Just began download.

There is no way WiH can be anything but epic. I know where my evening is going. 
more like where the night is going :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 05:20:48 pm
Safe to say it's been five hours now and I still can't get visual1 to download. :doubt: Only got core so far.

 :(

DVD?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 07, 2010, 05:38:08 pm
That would be awesome.
Hell I'd even pay for it. :D
I will win this war my connection started...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 07, 2010, 05:38:26 pm
Spoiler:
Am I just an idiot who can't press the right button, or is there an easier way to sort out the text on those cargo crates in the nebula than targetting next uninspected cargo, writing the lines down and deciphering it on paper OR opening up FRED?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: QuantumDelta on August 07, 2010, 05:39:13 pm
Press T.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 05:44:22 pm
Betrayal are you stuck on m08?  :nervous:

Also I think someone on freespace.pl is missing the AoA patch or doesn't have the mediavps in mediavps_3612.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 07, 2010, 06:08:54 pm
Bug/Problem:  In the mission with the freighter where you choose a tactic, the screen messages do not reflect rebound keys.  I had to reset to defaults and undo just to figure out what the heck I was actually supposed to push.  Granted, it's been something like two years since I opened FRED but I distinctly recall a function that let you bind to an action rather than a specific keypress.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 06:09:48 pm
Bug/Problem:  In the mission with the freighter where you choose a tactic, the screen messages do not reflect rebound keys.  I had to reset to defaults and undo just to figure out what the heck I was actually supposed to push.  Granted, it's been something like two years since I opened FRED but I distinctly recall a function that let you bind to an action rather than a specific keypress.

That function is in place in the mission. If it's not working there may be a bug at play.

EDIT: ...or not? Fixed in SVN. Sorry about that, and if you see any more post it up ASAP.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 07, 2010, 06:17:32 pm
Bug/Problem:  In the mission with the freighter where you choose a tactic, the screen messages do not reflect rebound keys.  I had to reset to defaults and undo just to figure out what the heck I was actually supposed to push.  Granted, it's been something like two years since I opened FRED but I distinctly recall a function that let you bind to an action rather than a specific keypress.

That function is in place in the mission. If it's not working there may be a bug at play.

EDIT: ...or not? Fixed in SVN. Sorry about that, and if you see any more post it up ASAP.

Every mission that tells me to warp out has ALT-J coming up, when mine is set to Enter.  Similar problem for the dialog-skipping function too.  I'm blowing the dust off dear old FRED as we speak.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 06:18:56 pm
Bug/Problem:  In the mission with the freighter where you choose a tactic, the screen messages do not reflect rebound keys.  I had to reset to defaults and undo just to figure out what the heck I was actually supposed to push.  Granted, it's been something like two years since I opened FRED but I distinctly recall a function that let you bind to an action rather than a specific keypress.

That function is in place in the mission. If it's not working there may be a bug at play.

EDIT: ...or not? Fixed in SVN. Sorry about that, and if you see any more post it up ASAP.

Every mission that tells me to warp out has ALT-J coming up, when mine is set to Enter.  Similar problem for the dialog-skipping function too.  I'm blowing the dust off dear old FRED as we speak.

We don't have enough dolla signs. It'll get fixed in SVN, don't worry about it. Guess we didn't have testers with exotic enough key layouts.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 07, 2010, 06:34:49 pm
Spoiler:
I really liked the campaign where you fly a frigate around. However, I just set all 3 systems to lock and flew around killing corvettes as they showed up. I didn't notice much, maybe because I couldn't actually tell what mass drivers, torpedoes, and gauss cannons were supposed to look like. It seemed all my prettier munitions were the point defense auto target stuff. Oh, and I spent a good 5 play thrus before I figured out that I was supposed to STALL for time, not kill stuff ASAP. Yeah, it was a long week for me.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 07, 2010, 06:35:36 pm
 :P

Cockpit view with Track IR in action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeiURveWy60).
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 07, 2010, 06:37:59 pm
Metaldestroyer: I'm sorry, but that tbm of yours will NOT be part of BP2. As you can see, you are losing the message senders, which is absolutely unacceptable for us. There's a code bug at work here which we'll have to track down and fix.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 07, 2010, 06:41:56 pm
I've just notice it :) That's fine if you don't include the tbm. However, what does happen if you use the 3.6.13 build ? the one for the new HUD Code ?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 06:42:33 pm
I've just notice it :) That's fine if you don't include the tbm. However, what does happen if you use the 3.6.13 build ? the one for the new HUD Code ?

It looks awesome though. I love your FOV. Everything looks huge.

Shame about the bug, but otherwise great work.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 07, 2010, 06:49:44 pm
I'm a fair bit through the campaign, and I absolutely love it.  The expansive, exquisitely detailed setting and the brilliant writing and dialogue combine to elevate this from merely campaign to cinematic experience of epic proportions.  While the dialogue itself can be cluttered sometimes in mid-dogfight (which is as far as I can tell completely unavoidable without fundamentally changing the structure of several missions), most of it is easily understood.  At several points in mid-mission, specifically during the interactive conversations, I actually feel like a pilot caught up in the wheels of interstellar machinations, forced to watch as the void burns, fire and death but a moment away.

Congratulations, BP team, on a masterpiece of storytelling.

Spoiler:
And I lol'd hard at the kitten picture. :lol:

I wonder who else took the time to scan all the cargo units in the "nebula."  Targetting them in order yields a very interesting piece of information.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Sara- on August 07, 2010, 07:03:50 pm
I don't post here often at all, but I felt I really needed to. The least expected thing happened, a space shooter made me sobby, or atleast gave me a runny nose and a trembling lip! This isn't just a campaign, this is an interactive novel and the best interactive novel I have ever played.

Spoiler:
The ending really was sad but very deep. I hope that Simms pulls through, but I got this gut feeling that she may not be as lucky and serves as a catalyst for Laporte's apparant transformation. I'm guessing she is a counterbalance for Bei. The hints at a romance or otherwise deep bond between the two really added a lot to the experience, allowing for the Laporte character to become immersive for the player along with the struggle between following her moral instinct and her emotional instinct. Atleast, at some point I started to really get into the character. I'm guessins Laporte's love for Simms comes from the comfort of having guidance: someone to keep her on a straight path and to keep her moral views from turning blurry with bloodlust. In difficult times that can be more than enough to love someone, without needing butterflies or schoolgirly giggles. Without Simms support, well, I dare not imagine what an abyss Laporte would tumble into...

Really, really great work. You really made my day. Looking forward to the next part!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 07, 2010, 07:16:46 pm
Thank you for those kind words. It's the kind of reaction we hoped for, and we're glad to see that it "clicked" in that way for at least a few people out there.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Nyctaeus on August 07, 2010, 07:17:15 pm
Betrayal are you stuck on m08?  :nervous:

Also I think someone on freespace.pl is missing the AoA patch or doesn't have the mediavps in mediavps_3612.
No matther what I will do, I always fail. Can someone explain me, how to notch that?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 07:20:57 pm
Betrayal are you stuck on m08?  :nervous:

Also I think someone on freespace.pl is missing the AoA patch or doesn't have the mediavps in mediavps_3612.
No matther what I will do, I always fail. Can someone explain me, how to notch that?

Spoiler:
Are we talking fail the dialogue, or the dogfight afterwards?

If it's the dogfight, just take the cheap tactic and run away until the gunships arrive. You can survive the dogfight by just evading a lot if you prefer to stay and fight.

If the conversation, go back and read the last briefing stage, and then try to apply that. If it's not working for you, let me know and I'll give a better hint. Sorry it's frustrating.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dr. Pwnguin on August 07, 2010, 07:27:57 pm
Absolutely brilliant work!

Spoiler:
Kittens!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: pecenipicek on August 07, 2010, 07:35:10 pm
Spoiler:
Battuta, and the whole of BP team, GO TO HELL!!!




Now that thats out of the way i immensely enjoyed the whole campaign, the crash didnt repeat itself, all in all a nice smooth ride altogether :D

I always hated cliffhangers, and if our dear Noemi is something to make the younger Bei scared a bit... i am afraid what will happen to the GTA. (at this point its only the GTA engaging from what i've gathered and Vasudans still arent 100% sure about the whole deal with Gef's and all...)


Also, on the overall front, the whole campaign needs a lot moar dakka and voiceacting. Apart from that, the gunships are bloody awesome :D

To anyone reading this thread, you need to ****ing play this. End of Line.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Hellstryker on August 07, 2010, 07:36:07 pm
Hell yeah. How many missions is it?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: [Wolf]Maverick on August 07, 2010, 07:37:19 pm
Hi, is it possible that you could release the awesome soundtrack as mp3s?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 07, 2010, 07:40:17 pm
Spoiler:
Kittens!

It's an Orwellian mind-control device! I don't care if they tried to make it otherwise!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 07:41:58 pm
Hi, is it possible that you could release the awesome soundtrack as mp3s?

*sigh* That's thorny moral territory. We can release the stuff we have IP rights of one kind or another to. Other stuff you can extract from the VPs with VPview, or we can provide YouTube links, but distributing them in the campaign is already sketchy.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dark Hunter on August 07, 2010, 07:49:55 pm
Just finished. Holy crap epic. That's all I can say.

To anyone who has not played this yet: DL AND PLAY NOW! :nod:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: ssmit132 on August 07, 2010, 07:53:47 pm
Looking forward to downloading this at uni tomorrow - I'd do it now but I'm almost at my download limit and downloading both this and the new MediaVPs would certainly put me over the limit. :sigh:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shiva1994 on August 07, 2010, 08:04:56 pm
I have been waiting for this campaign since ages and all that waiting paid off. After finishing it, all I can say is that it's simply frakkin' awesome. In my opinion, this is the breakthrough in the storytelling and sets the requirements high for the next mods to come. I completely agree with Sara on this matter.

Thank you, excellent work.

Spoiler:

That was sad ending... and damn cliffhangers... Can't wait what happens next after such heavy loses by the UEF.

Btw. Kittens rule!  ;)

Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 08:09:59 pm
I have been waiting for this campaign since ages and all that waiting paid off. After finishing it, all I can say is that it's simply frakkin' awesome. In my opinion, this is the breakthrough in the storytelling and sets the requirements high for the next mods to come. I completely agree with Sara on this matter.

Thank you, excellent work.

Spoiler:

That was sad ending... and damn cliffhangers... Can't wait what happens next after such heavy loses by the UEF.

Btw. Kittens rule!  ;)


*sniff sniff*

You guys make it all worth it.
/me cries and hugs everyone
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 07, 2010, 08:11:21 pm
Hi, is it possible that you could release the awesome soundtrack as mp3s?

*sigh* That's thorny moral territory. We can release the stuff we have IP rights of one kind or another to. Other stuff you can extract from the VPs with VPview, or we can provide YouTube links, but distributing them in the campaign is already sketchy.

I'll say it must be.

However, the soundtracking is excellent, only played the first few missions though. But, when Vortal Combat started playing in the first level, I just knew this was going to be something special.

And, overall, and so far, my impression is one of an utterly professional work. This is amazing. Voice Acting when it comes will elevate this to the ranks of godhood.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Inglonias on August 07, 2010, 08:55:16 pm
Spoiler:
NOOOO! YOU BASTARDS KILLED EVERYBODY EVER! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Ahem*OH MY GOD, THIS IS THE GREATEST MOD I'VE EVER PLAYED IN MY LIFE!!!!
The characters were deep, the music only added to the story, the cliffhanger was ****ING EVIL AND I HATE YOU ALL and the missions forced me to change my entire playstyle from "gung-ho own everything" to "Be a little careful!" The ownage of Earth was especially tragic. However, I do have a major complaint that needs to be addressed below!

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV The below REQUIRES a response
Spoiler:
Now, I can't accept how you try to paint the character as a "wronged but good person" by having her put "Dear Diary - Today I strangled a puppy with my bare hands, and I liked it! What kind of monster am I?" and then go out and butcher a bunch of Tevs in each mission. That doesn't fly with me.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The above REQURES a response


Spoiler:
Where did Bei go off to, I wonder? I wouldn't be surprised if Bei Sr. is leading the Fedayeen himself!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 07, 2010, 08:57:53 pm
I'm leaning towards saying that WiH is a fair bit better than either FS retail campaigns. Who's with me?

(except it's not voice acted yet, but that will come for sure. Heck, I don't see why anybody WOULDN'T want to be credited in this amazing mod. I would, but I lack good recording equipment)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 07, 2010, 09:00:57 pm
Spoiler:
Where did Bei go off to, I wonder? I wouldn't be surprised if Bei Sr. is leading the Fedayeen himself!
Spoiler:
Have you watched the end cutscene?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Inglonias on August 07, 2010, 09:12:58 pm
Spoiler:
Have you watched the end cutscene?

Yes.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Backslash on August 07, 2010, 09:18:37 pm
For those who are interested about Cockpit View, just grab the attach file.
Metaldestroyer: I'm sorry, but that tbm of yours will NOT be part of BP2. As you can see, you are losing the message senders, which is absolutely unacceptable for us. There's a code bug at work here which we'll have to track down and fix.
Aha!  Turns out the table needs a +noreplace right after each $Flags: line.  Otherwise (as far as I understand it) the "show ship" becomes the only flag, replacing everything including "fighter" and "player_ship".  All sorts of wonky behavior ensues.

So here's a fixed (afaik) attachment:

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dr. Pwnguin on August 07, 2010, 10:10:35 pm
Heh, I also realized my laptop does not have the ability to withstand the awesomeness of epic ship clashes...

Until I switch to high-performance and put a fan nearby! Genius!

Spoiler:
Was I the only one that killed the hostage?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thorbin on August 07, 2010, 10:14:57 pm
I am getting the following error messages when I try to play WiH part 1. The intro cutscene plays okay, but the error messages pop up when I get to the first briefing:

First this one:

Could not load in 2_CommandBrief-mb!
ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>


followed by this one:

Verify failure: Vbuf0 != NULL

ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>


I did follow the installation instructions to the letter, and I do have an SSE2 processor.

I will report these error messages on the SCP area.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 07, 2010, 10:24:59 pm
I am getting the following error messages when I try to play WiH part 1. The intro cutscene plays okay, but the error messages pop up when I get to the first briefing:

First this one:

Could not load in 2_CommandBrief-mb!
ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>


followed by this one:

Verify failure: Vbuf0 != NULL

ntdll.dll! ZwWaitForSingleObject + 21 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF_SSE2.exe! <no symbol>


I did follow the installation instructions to the letter, and I do have an SSE2 processor.

I will report these error messages on the SCP area.

Probably no need to report - this should be a really easy fix.

Just run a debug build (ends in -d) by selecting it in the launcher and launching Blue Planet, then play up to the moment of the crash, then go into your /FreeSpace2/data/ directory and post your fs2_open.log.

After that we can fix your install.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thorbin on August 07, 2010, 10:31:11 pm
Here is my fs2_open.log output:


Code: [Select]
==========================================================================
DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning
categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved.
==========================================================================
FreeSpace version: 3.6.12
Passed cmdline options:
  -ship_choice_3d
  -weapon_choice_3d
  -mod blueplanet2,blueplanet,mediavps_3612
Building file index...
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x2fa0cebd
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0x60465ead
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x2a530d55
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x5d4c1bfb
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x8fea63ef
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-adv-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x2851edb0
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x1541da12
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0xcc452f9d
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' with a checksum of 0x060bee91
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' with a checksum of 0xe2219ccf
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x7e75407b
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x44c7e8dd
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\ASW1_Animaps.vp' with a checksum of 0x31613271
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\ASW1_Normals.vp' with a checksum of 0x09e4b581
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\ASW_Interface.vp' with a checksum of 0xd912cb06
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\ASW_Intro.vp' with a checksum of 0xd8d071b9
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet1.vp' with a checksum of 0xdb02c05b
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\root_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xce10d76c
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\smarty_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xddeb3b1e
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x164fe65a
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xa11d56f1
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\StormFront12_root.vp' with a checksum of 0x541cef16
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\stu_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd77da83a
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango1_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x4c25221e
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango2_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x86920b82
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango3_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x705e8d71
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\warble_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd85c305d
Searching root 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\' ... 68 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' ... 23 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' ... 154 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' ... 61 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' ... 660 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' ... 1976 files
Searching root 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\' ... 24 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-adv-core.vp' ... 2 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' ... 403 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' ... 41 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' ... 685 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' ... 46 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' ... 400 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' ... 1488 files
Searching root 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\' ... 0 files
Searching root 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\' ... 357 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\ASW1_Animaps.vp' ... 237 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\ASW1_Normals.vp' ... 28 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\ASW_Interface.vp' ... 982 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\ASW_Intro.vp' ... 1 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet1.vp' ... ERROR: ERANGE: String error. Please Report.
Trying to put into 32 byte buffer:
ÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌ.
File: cfilesystem.cpp
Line: 719


Hmm. I just noticed a 'blueplanet1.vp'. An old file, perhaps?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 07, 2010, 10:35:24 pm
Whoa whoa whoa dude.

Are those mods you have not in their own folders?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 07, 2010, 10:35:44 pm
Do I hear the Dune soundtrack in the last few missions? :lol:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: basnyy213 on August 07, 2010, 10:37:32 pm
thanks darius, guess i'm not sleeping tonight :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Mongoose on August 07, 2010, 10:45:15 pm
Dammit, I'm gonna be in Pittsburgh for all of this week, and I'll have this sitting at home on my HD utterly tantalizing me.  Part of me feels like pulling off some ridiculous marathon of it before I leave...except I can't, since I want to replay AoA first.  Do want do want do waaaaaaaannnt. :(
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Inglonias on August 07, 2010, 10:52:26 pm
Spoiler:
:eek2: I will never look at psychologists the same way ever again, ever.  :shaking: Who knows how many of them can secretly be Vishnans in disguise!?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thorbin on August 07, 2010, 11:08:24 pm
Whoa whoa whoa dude.

Are those mods you have not in their own folders?
It would appear so. These are likely from a mod I installed over a year ago (I have had this FS2 installation on my PC a while). I have removed the 5 mod related VPs from my Freespace 2 root folder, and will try again. I will post the results later.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: asyikarea51 on August 07, 2010, 11:36:08 pm
My turn I guess. Three words:

Good... with merit. (Snail please shut up. Yes you're hyped with good reason, but it really pissed me the f*** off when you went high yesterday. Sorry. No I'm fine now really. :) :nervous:)

Was this what I was looking for? Don't know. Enough parts of the plot I detest. But I think you (whoever you is) came really close. :D :yes: :nervous:
Not like I've done anything useful as of late but if really did FRED what's in my head, maybe I might've emphasised the idea that
Spoiler:
everyone's evil
too.

Or maybe not... meh, I myself don't even know how I'd FRED it... :nervous:

With that out of the way...

--------------------------------------- tech stuff

1. This campaign needs voice acting not because it's awesome or any of the hype that some :nervous: people have been going round doing - it needs VA because there's SO MANY DAMN LINES that it's IMPOSSIBLE to play without going back to the Events window. Heck, with all that chatter it was obvious that the mission dudes had the voices in their head and FREDded away. And I think one or two sentences had the timing off, haven't seen things in FRED yet but I expect lots of sexp chaos that even I can't work heads or tails around, so I really cannot blame you people for that once-in-a-while slipup. I think it was only one line that had the timing off anyway.

Unfortunately by the end of the campaign I practically forgot who was even who. (lol wtf grammar? but can't think of a way to drive the point home XD) Apologies if this sounds offensive, but the only thing I caught on at credits point was some possible
Spoiler:
ecchi girl's love stuff.
At least now I understand why some people said things related to that in those infrequent forum posts and IRC chats during testing...

2. Major battles lagged HARD and the long combat distances weren't helping. The worst was texture corruption with the subspace warp everytime something jumped in or departed. Some of the battles were so damn intense that I simply sat there with a blank stare not shooting or even moving, unless something was shooting at me already. I cheapened out playing Very Easy because I couldn't be bothered to get my arse kicked while trying to get around the plot. Play on something harder and I guarantee things would be dying left and right enough to make me go berserk with the cheat codes rage-killing till the sequences broke.

Even the credits lagged REAL HARD!! I was all "screw the timing of the music, the event needs to finish first."

3. Even with mostly clear-cut instructions some things weren't obvious at first glance, such as the
Spoiler:
Striker packs lol I sound so Gundam SEED.
I didn't even know the Reinforcements menu was being used. Probably fits the battle tension though, "here I'm gonna teach you something in 0.9 seconds now hurry and press buttons" etc...

4. Button sequences. This one I won't blame, it's probably just limitations of the engine. I couldn't select some options because my control scheme is different (no multi messaging for one). I didn't realise this until I got to the
Spoiler:
superfast fighter training mission
and IIRC there was one decision tree before it... and I don't remember what the hell I chose.

5. Existing assets make me go all :doubt: when talking about "fancy big mods" like this one, this is one problem AoA has, but WiH tries to hide. I can see the effort in trying to make everything look uniform despite severe asset limitations (something which I try to do as well when I drown myself in random table edits despite not producing anything release-worthy). This mod is a good argument for me to continue to, well... "keep an open mind, stay neutral." Since depending on the situation I could really go either way if the whole issue of assets became a debate in itself.

--------------------------------------- story stuff

Spoiler:
5. At least this BP has something to keep the player in the mission, even when the mission failed warnings show up... but maybe that something is plain obvious, in that the GTVA just throws more big ships to make the player worse than dead, enough to make the player behind the 4th wall think, "F*** this, I'll restar--- wait, this is ridiculous. There MUST be a reason... play on then."

6. As the protagonist says, "big ugly ships ready to die." My reaction to it was, "Screw you, you didn't see a Sathanas with four imbalanced BFRed wiping everything off the floor and treating every usable munition against it the same as an ant's bite... GAAAAAAHHHHHH" (This point sounds like a random rant in itself :lol:)

7. Neither side is good, neither side is bad, but this is what BP was aiming for, so suck it up > pointlessly whine. Most of the time it was the GTVA that looked like the bad guy, Admiral Steele whatever, one UEF pilot citing "his dogs". Still, the Carthage baiting was equally evil looking at the UEF's side, yet it ALSO teaches people not to f*** with SOC for being able to plan so far ahead, just like World War II.

8. Something I noticed, anything significant to Alpha 1 in FS2 or canon gets to live. Nice. No that's not sarcasm - if somehow the Carthage gets through the entire BPverse not killed then that's probably some tribute to canon. As evil as it is I think it's better that way... I mean come on, who didn't hesitate over the trigger when the Carthage is in front of you, albeit with RED IFF? Not forgetting, when the test squadron from FS2 jumps in they were practically unkillable, and if the player hadn't run back to the Indus earlier or activated cheats, bullying session ensues?

---------------------------------------

9. Finally...

Spoiler:
When the tech room entries started talking about universes and so on...
No wait... nevermind. Deja vu. :mad: :( :sigh: <--- the "oh well suck it up" look.

You guys did hard work, so you earned it. :D :yes: Part of me will start whining about it but ultimately I know that's pointless. Safe to say though, even this Part 1 of WiH has killed any desire I have to even mod or FRED anything for a long time to come, probably... umm... "putting the pen to the paper" in layman's terms, for fear of what I have coming nowhere close.

That's it from me then. I'd talk more but this is already overkill to me. Cheers.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 07, 2010, 11:56:24 pm
I am unable to finish this tonight.  If I continued trying to beat that mission, I'd end up ragequitting.

Spoiler:
****ing maxim bombers EVERYWHERE.  And it does NOT help AT ALL that my target bomb/bomber key is working in reverse order for some strange reason.  I want to target the bomb 100 meters in front of me, not FIVE ****ING CLICKS OFF!  Then, by the time I learn there's an SSM TAG'r en route to the Indus, I'm six clicks from him, and he's four clicks from the Indus.  Do the math.  Even if I get him with the treb-equivalents, he's already launched. :sigh:

I'll try again tomorrow.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 07, 2010, 11:58:39 pm
Oh, that mission. Guys, no-one will know if you play it on very easy the first time. :lol:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 07, 2010, 11:59:51 pm
I AM on Very Easy. :(

Spoiler:
I don't think I'd be having as much trouble if that first goddamn wave of bombers wouldn't come from behind and take the Indus down 15-20% before I can effectively reach them and scatter the formation.  Then, there are two full wings of bombers coming from the front starting to launch bombs, and I can only give orders to one wing of fighters.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2010, 12:02:15 am
Stay near the frigates.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 08, 2010, 12:04:23 am
Spoiler:
Are we talking about Delenda Est?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 08, 2010, 12:05:42 am
Spoiler:
Are we talking about Delenda Est?

I think so. 
Spoiler:
Frigates bear down on the cornered Carthage
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2010, 12:10:08 am
Spoiler:
Yep, that's Delenda Est. Stay close to the frigates, and learn how to use the Archer on beam turrets and Slammers on enemy bomber formations.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 08, 2010, 12:13:43 am
Spoiler:
Yep, that's the way. Also, you don't need to 'destroy' incoming bomber wings, pop slammers at them, fire into them, disperse the formations, and move onto the next one. Ten seconds spent evading submunitions is ten seconds they can't spend firing torpedoes. Hell, just spray primaries at them. Also, try and ignore most of the fighters (do NOT follow Brie's advice in the first mission, taking down bombers first has been military aviation doctrine since the Battle of Britain), except the first wave, or when you can easily slammer them.

Also, a good trick is to slammer fighter escorts and take the bombers with smaller secondaries, when things get heavy.

I found the trick was to make sure I wasn't being tied up with one formation. Also, that SSM strike wing is a MUST. It will make your day so much better.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 08, 2010, 12:20:02 am
I'll keep that in mind tomorrow.  I'm not going to risk RRRAAAGHGH'ing at it tonight, and I need to be up early for church tomorrow.

Spoiler:
****ing maxims

I'm guessing this mission is the source of WHAT THE DEAR JESUS THE SKY IS FULL OF WARHEADS lulziness.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 08, 2010, 12:20:44 am
I'm on the third mission now, I am LOVING EVERY DAMN SECOND.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: mjn.mixael on August 08, 2010, 12:22:28 am
I've said a lot about WiH in IRC.. I'll try to sum up what I said for the whole team to read.

WiH puts you in the think of battle and for the first time in FS.. you feel it. You REALLY feel it. This campaign takes the traditional style of "kill wings of fighters/bombers until something interesting happens" and throws it out the window. Like I said, WiH puts you right in the middle of the war. You are forced to make rash decisions on the fly, hoping that it was the right one. The missions flawlessly execute an atmosphere that is unrelenting and will leave you craving for more.

I did not care too much for AoA and I was skeptical that I would enjoy WiH any more than I did AoA. But let me tell you this. WiH is the best thing this side of sliced bread. (And sliced bread is freaking awesome).

If you are in the process of designing missions... go back to the drawing board because what you've got just isn't good enough anymore. This campaign proves that we no longer need the same old stuff.

 :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 08, 2010, 12:25:35 am
*Ahem*OH MY GOD, THIS IS THE GREATEST MOD I'VE EVER PLAYED IN MY LIFE!!!!

Hey, Chester A. Bum, back off.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 12:28:24 am
I'll keep that in mind tomorrow.  I'm not going to risk RRRAAAGHGH'ing at it tonight, and I need to be up early for church tomorrow.

Spoiler:
****ing maxims

I'm guessing this mission is the source of WHAT THE DEAR JESUS THE SKY IS FULL OF WARHEADS lulziness.

Spoiler:
Don't forget you have wingman commands and your wiingmen are really good.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 08, 2010, 12:33:38 am
Spoiler:
Yep, that's the way. Also, you don't need to 'destroy' incoming bomber wings, pop slammers at them, fire into them, disperse the formations, and move onto the next one. Ten seconds spent evading submunitions is ten seconds they can't spend firing torpedoes. Hell, just spray primaries at them. Also, try and ignore most of the fighters (do NOT follow Brie's advice in the first mission, taking down bombers first has been military aviation doctrine since the Battle of Britain), except the first wave, or when you can easily slammer them.

Also, a good trick is to slammer fighter escorts and take the bombers with smaller secondaries, when things get heavy.

I found the trick was to make sure I wasn't being tied up with one formation. Also, that SSM strike wing is a MUST. It will make your day so much better.
Could you explain to non native english :) what is pop slammers ? It's the first time I read/heard it. I'm stuck on that mission as well.
Spoiler:
In Medium difficulty I got shot down by Long Range missile. The second try, I hide into the Reiza Station. But after, the station was destroyed. :( So I made a third try on Easy, and now, it's the Valeri which crush one of my Cruiser.

Damn, I love so much the Sound Track, and all that bang bang sounds :)

Don't watch if you didn't finish the campaign (I might be wrong concerning the mission title)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkbh6eWR7mg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIcsG2j6OMU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeiURveWy60
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 08, 2010, 12:38:33 am
Oh, I meant fire slammer warheads. I think we're talking about different missions, however.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2010, 12:38:48 am
****ING FRIENDLY FIRE.
I wish those losers would check where I am before going LOL SLAMMERS when I'm dogfighting.

It's retarded. I could have taken all them Gefs solo (I killed over half of em already all by myself), just to get splashed by backup-I-didn't-want.

I am not amused.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 12:39:33 am
****ING FRIENDLY FIRE.

You're resistant to Slammer friendly fire in m15, but not in other missions. They only just got around to installing the IFF-fused warheads.  :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2010, 12:40:48 am
yeah well, a friendly wing jumped in and splashed me with slammers before I even knew what hit me :/
I complete the objective, complete the bonus objective, kill 10+ fighters, and then DIE TO FRIENDLY SLAMMER FIRE :<

I, am not enjoying this as much as AoA. Got no drive to keep playing from the story, and has too much QQ not enough PewPew.
AoA was awesome cause you got to bumrush Shivan Destroyers, and here, I'm stuck defending transports and freighters \o/. When a GTVA warship comes in, I don't even want to bother shooting at it.

I really hoping that changes.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: asyikarea51 on August 08, 2010, 12:41:42 am
Go back to the drawing board because what you've got just isn't good enough anymore.

Bang. But oh well.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 08, 2010, 12:44:19 am
Unless of course you played WiH prior and design all future missions with WiH standards in mind. :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 12:46:36 am
Could you explain to non native english :) what is pop slammers ? It's the first time I read/heard it. I'm stuck on that mission as well.
Spoiler:
In Medium difficulty I got shot down by Long Range missile. The second try, I hide into the Reiza Station. But after, the station was destroyed. :( So I made a third try on Easy, and now, it's the Valeri which crush one of my Cruiser.

Spoiler:
You're on Darkest Hour. It's tricky. Here's my suggestion: keep your Beta Wing alive by giving them a lot of aggressive attack orders. When the big attack at the end comes in, have Gamma guard Rheza, send Delta out to attack the AWACS, and take your own Beta wing out to intercept one of the Maxim bomber groups, taking out the escort first.

Don't worry about saving the Vatican. The crew of that ship will gladly give their lives to defend Earth.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 08, 2010, 12:47:51 am
Where is Commander Bei from Age of Aquarius in that campaign ? :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 12:48:50 am
Where is Commander Bei from Age of Aquarius in that campaign ? :p

Spoiler:
You'll find out.

yeah well, a friendly wing jumped in and splashed me with slammers before I even knew what hit me :/
I complete the objective, complete the bonus objective, kill 10+ fighters, and then DIE TO FRIENDLY SLAMMER FIRE :<

I, am not enjoying this as much as AoA. Got no drive to keep playing from the story, and has too much QQ not enough PewPew.
AoA was awesome cause you got to bumrush Shivan Destroyers, and here, I'm stuck defending transports and freighters \o/. When a GTVA warship comes in, I don't even want to bother shooting at it.

I really hoping that changes.

I'm 56% confident you'll like Act 2 better. Just like AoA things kick into high gear around M10.

Also there's only one mission defending transports and freighters.

But all in all it's a much darker, more psychological story than AoA's hellyeah-kickass adventure. We figured we were taking some risks, but all in all I think they've paid off for most players.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Inglonias on August 08, 2010, 12:57:54 am
Question: Can I find that song from the end (which I think is made by ORIGA, if QVP is to be trusted) on iTunes? I can't find it!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 12:59:38 am
Question: Can I find that song from the end (which I think is made by ORIGA, if QVP is to be trusted) on iTunes? I can't find it!

Aney, Unborn Child by Origa. There's a remixed version by Darius also included in BP2.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Mongoose on August 08, 2010, 01:03:41 am
Wait...Origa's in here?  Like the GITS: Stand-Alone Complex themes Origa?  Now I really want it. :(
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Inglonias on August 08, 2010, 01:04:24 am
Its not there. Searching the title, artist, or album gives no results on iTunes.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 01:07:31 am
Its not there. Searching the title, artist, or album gives no results on iTunes.

Here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlQraziPI3A)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 08, 2010, 01:10:48 am
Dammit Battuta you've ****ed my mind sideways, Dilmah told me it was you!
That mission was ****ing freakier than the Transcendant!
I think my spine froze.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 08, 2010, 01:14:27 am
Oh, Darius was also responsible!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: asyikarea51 on August 08, 2010, 01:16:10 am
I just remembered.

Spoiler:
Does the ending remind anyone of Descent 3's opening? I think there was more than one Descent reference in the mod as well, but I forgot.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thorbin on August 08, 2010, 01:48:04 am
Whoa whoa whoa dude.

Are those mods you have not in their own folders?
It would appear so. These are likely from a mod I installed over a year ago (I have had this FS2 installation on my PC a while). I have removed the 5 mod related VPs from my Freespace 2 root folder, and will try again. I will post the results later.

In addition to removing this mod VPs from my root folder, a couple of my MediaVP downloads were corrupt, so I replaced those files with fresh downloads. WiH now works as advertised. In fact, I just reached the first mission in Act 2, and have to get some sleep. 
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 08, 2010, 01:50:28 am
Sleep is a crutch. :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 08, 2010, 02:59:03 am
Hi, brand new to the boards so I'm unsure if this is the right place to be posted, but I appear to have encountered a bug on the Delenda Est mission (which I know is such happy happy news to you all  :D )

Details in the spoiler

Spoiler:

Basically, the event timings are severely out of whack.  The main offender is the Jackknife attack group.  Over the course of the 30 (not an exaggeration) attempts it took to finally beat this mission the Jackknife attack group never entered the engagement at the same time twice.  I had them never show up, I never had them jump in at what I assume is the correct point (after the final strike squadrons from the Tev destroyer are wiped out), but I had them show up everywhere else.  The vast majority of the time they jumped early, usually either before or immediately after the 30+ strike craft are launched.  Once they even arrived before the Jackknife order was given, I did not load from the checkpoint in that instance working on the possibility that that may be the source of the insanity, leaving me 10 clicks away and completely unable to do anything before they were diced into confetti.

Obviously, this makes the mission extremely difficult because 1) You're nowhere near the Tev corvettes you need to disarm and 2) there are still 30+ strike craft who will eat you and your wingmates alive should you ignore them and focus on the corvettes.  As mentioned earlier, it took me 30-ish tries to actually complete the mission, and I suspect my success is mainly based on lucky torpedo hits from the frigates and not any exceptional flying by myself.

there are other little oddities too, like the 2nd Tev corvette in the initial fight never wanting to jump out ever, and gamma wing starting out 5 clicks from you if you load from checkpoint 1 (making them basically useless for the massive charlie-foxtrot that immediately ensues) that kind of mar the whole fun factor as well.

I hate to give bad feedback because, on the whole, I have enjoyed AoA and WiHp1 immensely.  But unfortunately the finale got reduced to an incredibly frustrating experience for me.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 08, 2010, 03:01:41 am
Spoiler:
I just helped the War Gods steal the logistics vessel. My character got 2 days rest. I think I deserve some sleep too now. Probably shouldn't have started the campaign at 11:30...
So far:

-the dream mission was a pain in the ass but cool. Also reminded me a lot of Dead Space. How did it turn out that just tapping T got the boxes in the right order regardless of proximity to ship?

-flashing images when you first go crazy went way over my head. I could make out that the first flash was an eye (that was probably 4:3 distorted to 16:9), but the subsequent ones were a little hard to identify from lack of vsync and stretch distortion. Was that Earth? Oh, what is INDG or whatever the 5th one was? Also, was a little annoying trying to keep track of messages and the status numbers at the same time. They're too far apart on my screen :(

-I killed my hostage by accident. Objective told me to get a missile lock, so I did, but that didn't do anything. Then I accidently pressed the right mouse button :(

-the new interceptor I get flies at 200. ...wow. It even goes 120+ backwards. Yet to use that properly in combat though. One thing: its briefing .ani is all jerky and ugly looking. And very very GTVA in scheme.

-characters in general get lovely development even though there's such huge limitations to how you can interact with them. (ie, read briefing text, which ironically, is never brief)

-apotheosis? Does that mean I get to fly uber-rigged Vishnan ships later on? Not like UEF fighters aren't tons better than anything GTVA has already...

-never thought I'd dismay at Orestes jumping in, until I realized it wasn't the Orestes but another Raynor. I actually thought "omg we're all ****ed"

-clever use of the recommendations in the debrief.

-not sure how I'll ever be able to fly GTVA fighters again. They're all junk.

-k sleep.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 03:02:06 am
Hi, brand new to the boards so I'm unsure if this is the right place to be posted, but I appear to have encountered a bug on the Delenda Est mission (which I know is such happy happy news to you all  :D )

Details in the spoiler

Spoiler:

Basically, the event timings are severely out of whack.  The main offender is the Jackknife attack group.  Over the course of the 30 (not an exaggeration) attempts it took to finally beat this mission the Jackknife attack group never entered the engagement at the same time twice.  I had them never show up, I never had them jump in at what I assume is the correct point (after the final strike squadrons from the Tev destroyer are wiped out), but I had them show up everywhere else.  The vast majority of the time they jumped early, usually either before or immediately after the 30+ strike craft are launched.  Once they even arrived before the Jackknife order was given, I did not load from the checkpoint in that instance working on the possibility that that may be the source of the insanity, leaving me 10 clicks away and completely unable to do anything before they were diced into confetti.

Obviously, this makes the mission extremely difficult because 1) You're nowhere near the Tev corvettes you need to disarm and 2) there are still 30+ strike craft who will eat you and your wingmates alive should you ignore them and focus on the corvettes.  As mentioned earlier, it took me 30-ish tries to actually complete the mission, and I suspect my success is mainly based on lucky torpedo hits from the frigates and not any exceptional flying by myself.

there are other little oddities too, like the 2nd Tev corvette in the initial fight never wanting to jump out ever, and gamma wing starting out 5 clicks from you if you load from checkpoint 1 (making them basically useless for the massive charlie-foxtrot that immediately ensues) that kind of mar the whole fun factor as well.

I hate to give bad feedback because, on the whole, I have enjoyed AoA and WiHp1 immensely.  But unfortunately the finale got reduced to an incredibly frustrating experience for me.

wtf

It sounds like you have a borked pilot file. That is not a bug we've ever seen.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 08, 2010, 03:08:57 am

wtf

It sounds like you have a borked pilot file. That is not a bug we've ever seen.

I figured it was something specific to me, but I also figured it was best to bring it up since I'm not exactly a modder and could be wrong.

If you want me to provide anything data wise I'm happy to help out, nothing else popped up the entire campaign.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 03:22:33 am

wtf

It sounds like you have a borked pilot file. That is not a bug we've ever seen.

I figured it was something specific to me, but I also figured it was best to bring it up since I'm not exactly a modder and could be wrong.

If you want me to provide anything data wise I'm happy to help out, nothing else popped up the entire campaign.

No, you did exactly the right thing. We need to sort this out!

Can you launch your FreeSpace 2 install using WiH as a mod and then post the debug log? If you don't know how to generate one see the Support forum.

If you have a VP viewer like VPView (duh), could you also do me a favor and extract the bp2-15 mission file and send the text file to me via Pastebin? I need to make sure something hasn't gone wrong, because the mission file is quite explicit that
Spoiler:
the Jackknife ships will ONLY arrive once the Indus is precisely 8618 meters from the Carthage.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2010, 03:32:52 am
Spoiler:
-flashing images when you first go crazy went way over my head. I could make out that the first flash was an eye (that was probably 4:3 distorted to 16:9), but the subsequent ones were a little hard to identify from lack of vsync and stretch distortion. Was that Earth? Oh, what is INDG or whatever the 5th one was? Also, was a little annoying trying to keep track of messages and the status numbers at the same time. They're too far apart on my screen :(
Spoiler:
The fifth one was NGRI. Short for Nagari. See BP website, apparently links still appear in Spoiler tags. I didn't get what NGRI stood for either. When I realized, chills literally shot through my spine.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 03:35:09 am
Oh hey, thedjstu, do you remember if you started a new pilot file before kicking off War in Heaven? Just a diagnostic question, I don't think you're any breed of numbskull.  ;)

I gotta turn in. Another BP myrmidon should be along shortly to help out. If not, back in eight hours!

Wait! Bolt from the blue while brushing my teeth.

Did these problems you were having occur while replaying the mission after death or a mission failure? Did you hit either 'restart mission' on the death screen or 'replay mission' in the failure debrief?

If so, this closely resembles a bug I recently had using a late or final 3.6.12 build, in which missions could intermittently bork up when replaying. Events would trigger randomly (or not at all) and stuff was just...weird. QuantumDelta claims the bug may date back to retail.

You may be able to avoid the bug by quitting out to the main menu after every play and then restarting by pressing 'continue'. Your checkpoints should be preserved.

You may have been the victim of a code-side problem. That makes it all the more urgent to get that debug log!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 08, 2010, 04:42:56 am
Moddb download mirror added to WiH release topic.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Mobius on August 08, 2010, 04:50:51 am
:yes: to ModDB pimping!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 08, 2010, 04:52:03 am
Seems like WiH got coverage on Moddb front page. :D

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3845/wihmoddbfrontpage.png)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Mobius on August 08, 2010, 04:58:20 am
I see it (http://www.moddb.com/), too. It's also at the top of the "Popular Mods" list, on the right. :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 08, 2010, 05:04:18 am
A minor dialogue nitpick, on the Pesedjet mission, they tell the Littman to go to the port dock, yet it docks on the ship's dorsal centerline.
Also with the Uriel's external points, is there anything that can be done about certain weapons hanging foward from where the pylons actually are, the Firestorm torpedos (Forgot what they're called this time) need to go back a fair deal I believe.

UEF Itano Circus is epic... :nod:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Mobius on August 08, 2010, 05:07:24 am
Spoiler tags anyone? :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 08, 2010, 05:09:59 am
Congrats on two highlights in two days.
 
Still not got this yet.
 
Amazing how much a hangover can contribute to not wanting to do stuff. . . . . . It'll keep til I get at my high speed conn at work.
 
 
Checkpoints, choosing dialogue, few other bits I spied from the thread that interest my curiousity bone.
 
With regard to the VA issue. I'm old enough to remember Derelict without voice and I coped, I also managed with sync and Transcend and windmills.
This will not hamper my efforts to enjoy it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 08, 2010, 05:12:01 am
Spoiler tags anyone? :nervous:
It's not like steps to complete the mission or critical information is being put out.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: carbine7 on August 08, 2010, 06:38:19 am
I just finished the campaign, and words escape me. I'll leave it at  :jaw:

Spoiler:
I could just see the Indus becoming the next helpless Pyro :( . Descent 3 anyone?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Hellstryker on August 08, 2010, 07:01:38 am
Okay, I usually don't do this, but this campaign warrants an extreeeeemely lengthy review, which I hope won't be breezed over completely.

First the good; the writing. Usually, (and by usually I mean 90% of the time) sequels fail to meet their predecessors expectations. WiH on the other hand not only matched but exceeded AoA in every way (And yes, believe it or not I did have my gripes with AoA). I kind of wish you had time to expand more on Noemi's childhood, and her supposed mental instability, and I definitely would like to have seen returning AoA characters - in particular the Sanctuary survivors. When I saw no returning characters, or any real mention of their exploits outside of
Spoiler:
the nebula mission
, I was very put off and expected there to be too much new content to properly flesh out, and that it would not feel like a true sequel.

In this I was right and wrong. War in Heaven did not actually feel like a proper BP sequel, but the writing was so insurmountably better that it blew my mind. The overall plot and mission design was rock solid, and more realistic than anything I've played since The Procyon Insurgency, and the characters were what did it for me. Noemi was alright, though as stated earlier I would've liked to have seen her expanded on more, but Wargods and the writing for Simms in particular was astounding, and would very much like to know who did the majority of the writing for her, as she was bone chillingly reminiscent of a very, very close friend of mine. I'll be very upset if she's killed off
Spoiler:
, but given the last 'mission' it's unlikely that she survives.

The Indus and Two Fleet felt like home, I can't think of a better way to word it. This especially sunk in during the push through the Hood/Serkr blockade at the martian gate, and the aftermath of that mission (Which was also easily my favorite in the campaign).
Spoiler:
You wanted to protect your comrades, you wanted to come home alive, and most importantly you just wanted it all to come to an end. I'm also can't say I didn't shed a tear or two when the Yangtze and company made their final stand, or when the Indus drifted into the sun.

All these factors came together to form the greatest emotional experience in a freespace campaign seen to date - my only fear is that the freespace engine provides far too much limitation to present such a rich and well fleshed out universe.

-----------

Annnnd then there's the bad...

My biggest gripe here is the UEF ships, as well as the starboxes. They taxed the piss out of my poor old vista burdened rig I'm running at the moment due to inefficient texturing and LoDs (Or lackthereof? I didn't get a good enough look through the 5 or so FPS I got whilst staring at even a single Karuna). Any mission with even *one* of those things absolutely killed me, as did the Uriel and Lao Tze. I actually had to cheat on the Hood/Serkr blockade mission and the last mission because I couldn't kill anything in time to save anything. The Lunar city mission also made my comp writhe in agony as well.

Please fix it. It's bad enough having to play an ugly game, but an ugly and inefficient one just makes me want to rip out things spines. I don't like having to rip out the spines of brilliant writers.

And last but certainly not least, I could give VA a spin in the future when you're ready to begin that aspect of the campaign. I'd probably be best for Captain Sorensen, or something like that methinks.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 08, 2010, 07:02:54 am
I just finished the campaign, and words escape me. I'll leave it at  :jaw:

Spoiler:
I could just see the Indus becoming the next helpless Pyro :( . Descent 3 anyone?

I didn't find it all that similar, to be honest, and yes, I've seen the intro for that game too. :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 08, 2010, 07:09:19 am
My biggest gripe here is the UEF ships, as well as the starboxes. They taxed the piss out of my poor old vista burdened rig I'm running at the moment due to inefficient texturing and LoDs (Or lackthereof? I didn't get a good enough look through the 5 or so FPS I got whilst staring at even a single Karuna). Any mission with even *one* of those things absolutely killed me, as did the Uriel and Lao Tze. I actually had to cheat on the Hood/Serkr blockade mission and the last mission because I couldn't kill anything in time to save anything. The Lunar city mission also made my comp writhe in agony as well.

We are painfully aware of this. But we didn't have the ressources to get all the models fixed up in time, unfortunately. There is a new Karuna in the pipeline, and we've talked to a few guys who are willing to work on the other models.
We'll put them out there as quickly as we can, rest assured of that. In fact, if you (and I'm talking to everyone who might be reading this) can help us, just drop us a line and we'll talk about it.

As for the people of AoA:
Spoiler:
We left them out of this release on purpose, to allow us to concentrate on introducing the new characters properly. That said, they are still around and they will reappear (you have seen the end cutscene until the end, haven't you?), but for now, they are simply nowhere near Laporte, and War in Heaven is above all Laporte's story
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Hellstryker on August 08, 2010, 07:41:20 am
I don't have the right tools on here to assist with UV mapping or LoDing. If I would I could, believe me. Maybe in the future if somebody doesn't get to it first.

And, no need for the explanation on the AoA characters. I understood clearly once I finished the campaign. It was only early on that I was put off by it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: m!m on August 08, 2010, 07:42:18 am
I just finished this campaign and the only thing I can say is
 :jaw:        :jaw:        :jaw:
This is the best campaign I have ever played.
Everything was perfect, the plot, the characters, the models, the effects, the music, the atmosphere, ... everything!!
This campaign made me actually feel the emotions and the pain of
Spoiler:
Laporte. The ending is the perfect prelude to WiH part 2 and I just want to play it.(I hope I don't have to wait another year :nervous:)
Finally I want to express my thanks to the BP team and of course the FSU- and SCP-teams who have done an outstanding job bringing FreeSpace this far.
Thank you!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: matt007 on August 08, 2010, 07:59:51 am
I've never really posted on here, but I've been following the work going on for a long time, now I feel I need to share my thoughts on this wonderful campaign.

Spoiler:
Having played the Directors Cut version of AoA a few months back, I always thought it was at a similar level to Silent Threat and that user made campaigns had really become as good as they could be. Although I went into this with high expectations, I was absolutely blown away by what you guys have done here. In terms of character arcs and story goes, this campaign is simply unchallenged. Even the retail version of Freespace did not go into the sort of depth WiH does when it comes to the character you play. Her interactions with squad-mates (particularly Simms) and her strange schizophrenic personality all added to the experience.

The story of the war was superbly told, from the high points of catching the GTVA supply ship (the name eludes me) to the lows of Darkest Hour and the Carthage trap. The missions had a good variation of difficulty and were pretty much all enjoyable. The nebula mission with the Vishnan communication was really well done but the standout mission for me was Delenda Est. Not only was it epic in scale, with the number of ships and fighters present, but it was relentless throughout. The sacrifice of the Katana at the end was heart wrenching, down mainly to the superb character development throughout the campaign. I was half expecting a Vishnian ship to jump in and save the day during the final cutscene, but the appearence of a Fedayeen ship asking specifically for Noemi was an excellent twist.

The music, as with AoA was simply brilliant. You never realise how much difference in game music can make until you're sitting there in a tense space battle and you listen to it. Makes you feel the pressure of fighting the war and the need to kill or be killed.

There are a couple of niggles as with any campaign. The frame rate is one, which I see you've already mentioned. I have a very powerful PC, but even I was struggling to stay above 30fps at times. The other is the sheer volume of dialogue. Although necessary to tell the story in such detail, its quite frustrating to have to keep stopping and checking missed messages. WiH is already the best user made campaign I've played, but with voice acting it would comfortably be on a par with the retail campaign for me.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 08, 2010, 08:04:06 am
I finished it, I feel empty now.
Best campaign I've ever played, definately eager to see what Part 2 is like.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 08, 2010, 09:03:10 am
For those who are interested about Cockpit View, just grab the attach file.
Metaldestroyer: I'm sorry, but that tbm of yours will NOT be part of BP2. As you can see, you are losing the message senders, which is absolutely unacceptable for us. There's a code bug at work here which we'll have to track down and fix.
Aha!  Turns out the table needs a +noreplace right after each $Flags: line.  Otherwise (as far as I understand it) the "show ship" becomes the only flag, replacing everything including "fighter" and "player_ship".  All sorts of wonky behavior ensues.

So here's a fixed (afaik) attachment:
I snagged your attachment to see what the other ships looked like from the inside, seems the Uriel and Durga's panels don't come up (Missing texture?), and the Uhlan's interior is pretty shiny, but the rest look really good.

I want to fly the Narayana. ;7
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 08, 2010, 09:08:37 am
Well, I loved that first cutscene so much I went and frapsed it, then uploaded it to youtube in HD (Recommend you watch it in HD and fullscreen it to read the dialogue, again)

Feel free to use it as a bit of advertisement here and there, as I think it captures War in Heaven perfectly (And set the mood so well)

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_bWDo5mlDw&hd=1)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 08, 2010, 09:41:18 am
Spoiler:
-flashing images when you first go crazy went way over my head. I could make out that the first flash was an eye (that was probably 4:3 distorted to 16:9), but the subsequent ones were a little hard to identify from lack of vsync and stretch distortion. Was that Earth? Oh, what is INDG or whatever the 5th one was? Also, was a little annoying trying to keep track of messages and the status numbers at the same time. They're too far apart on my screen :(
Spoiler:
The fifth one was NGRI. Short for Nagari. See BP website, apparently links still appear in Spoiler tags. I didn't get what NGRI stood for either. When I realized, chills literally shot through my spine.
Spoiler:
Yeah no. I don't think I like the prospect of having Shivans in my head either.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 09:44:33 am
Okay, I usually don't do this, but this campaign warrants an extreeeeemely lengthy review, which I hope won't be breezed over completely.

Believe me, mate, we savor every words of these reviews. They really do make it all worth it.

Quote
My biggest gripe here is the UEF ships, as well as the starboxes. They taxed the piss out of my poor old vista burdened rig I'm running at the moment due to inefficient texturing and LoDs (Or lackthereof? I didn't get a good enough look through the 5 or so FPS I got whilst staring at even a single Karuna). Any mission with even *one* of those things absolutely killed me, as did the Uriel and Lao Tze. I actually had to cheat on the Hood/Serkr blockade mission and the last mission because I couldn't kill anything in time to save anything. The Lunar city mission also made my comp writhe in agony as well.

Please fix it. It's bad enough having to play an ugly game, but an ugly and inefficient one just makes me want to rip out things spines. I don't like having to rip out the spines of brilliant writers.

If you'll read the release post, you can see that we actually have a big glaring notice there about inefficient models, followed by a request for help. We did everything we could, but Blue Planet's philosophy has always been to work with public assets - we don't focus heavily on modeling new stuff. If these models are going to fixed up we have to reach out to the community. Which we've done, and hopefully we'll have a performance patch in the future.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 08, 2010, 09:45:19 am
Spoiler:
I just did the Combat Psyche Evaluation. I like how 'Ken' used nearly the same words as Bosch, about playing our part to the bloody end. A very nice touch, and stresses that Bosch was Nagari sensitive
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Sara- on August 08, 2010, 10:15:27 am
Spoiler:
I'm curious about the Carthage and it's Admiral. I assume that Steele did not inform the Carthage of his plans to suddenly have a destroyer pop-up to come to the rescue so the Carthage's admiral (who cares a lot for her officers) might be rather pissed off. Not because she nearly died, but because many of her loyal officers were nearly sacrificed. Also the Carthage seemed to play fair with it's admiral stating that she would face this battle the way it went with intent to win, or otherwise accepting ending up like admiral Koth once did sacrificing herself (we don't know if she would have surrendered if that other destroyer did not come to the rescue). Maybe the Carthage and her admiral may rethink their position in this war. I hope so.

As for Simms, I'm guessing she dies and maybe that is not as bad as surviving for Simms, I couldn't see her go on living. 'Teaching pilots how to fly' sounds like awaiting for death to come, for real this time. If she died, then she died in Noemi's arms, maybe that was all she could have asked for after all which happened. For once she died and someone stayed behind, instead of the other way around. Also I'm not sure if the Feyadeen are so top-secret that they'll wipe out the Indus after retrieving Laporte, which would make a great catalyst for pissing the girl off even more.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2010, 10:18:53 am
Spoiler:
Admiral Anita Lopez knew that it was all part of a big plan. See this thread link (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70645.0)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SF-Junky on August 08, 2010, 10:22:23 am
NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo... and I haven't been able to play Starcraft II so far, because my new PC hasn't been finished yet. For good's sake my girlfriend is on vacation with her best friend next week, so I have plenty of time. :D

Anyway, thanks for that birthday present. I love you guys so much. :D :) I am so excited!!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Sara- on August 08, 2010, 10:23:26 am
@Snail:

Spoiler:
Ah right I read that, forgot about it, I remember it now. I still wonder if this will shake things up within admiral Anita Lopez. I guess all will be revealed in time!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 10:38:31 am
@Snail:

Spoiler:
Ah right I read that, forgot about it, I remember it now. I still wonder if this will shake things up within admiral Anita Lopez. I guess all will be revealed in time!

First off you are awesome and make the whole team very happy. Second:

Spoiler:
I think Lopez knew she was part of some bigger plan that would put her beloved crews in danger, but she didn't know exactly how it was going to play out. During the events of Pawns and Delenda Est, she wasn't just acting (at least I think so), she was genuinely concerned for her crews and her own ship. She didn't know exactly how Steele was planning to run this - she probably had no idea the Imperieuse was lurking in-system - and for all she knew she was going to be left out to dry while Steele captured Earth or something. It's up to you to decide how she'd react to that, but you'll note that it's fairly rare for her battle group to actually lose many warships (fighters are another matter).
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 08, 2010, 10:42:18 am
Batt, more keybind problems - the jump out (ALT-J versus my actual bind) shows up in every mission in the campaign, but "The Intervention" call for help key doesn't work and I'll be damned if I can figure out what it was originally bound to.  It's telling me to press CAPS Lock (my toggle Glide key) but that isn't doing it.  I made it through without doing it, but it'd be nice to have it actually work :)  I'll take this opportunity as someone with an unusual keyset (I use mouse/keyboard, and virtually everything is remapped from the defaults) to volunteer to beta test Part 2 =)

Great work still though - that mission against the SOC fighters was tense and actually had an emotional impact.  The BP team rocks =)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 08, 2010, 10:47:36 am
Is anyone else that has show ship flags on their UEF fighters missing screen textures on the Uriel and Duraga? Making sure it's not just me now.
I see now, if you want insturment panels back on whatever fighters that have missing panels, they've been named invisible on PCS2, the panel textures are in the .VP so they can be loaded back up.

I also have a rough time with dialogue / cutscene skip (Fire or Alt + J) working, it does work once in a while but most times it doesn't. I do have the default keys mapped to the function.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 11:26:33 am
Bloody keybinds!

As well as many tiny mission tweaks we're working on slapping anti-Slammer armor on the player across more missions and (of course) fixing up those keybinds. Sorry about the inconvenience, saintly ones.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 08, 2010, 12:24:04 pm
Pffft, if the only problems in a release like this are a few balance issues and technical problems with keybinds, you guys have absolutely nothing to apologize for.  This mod is fantastic.

Actually, I saw Hellstryker's post there and I too have noticed some performance issues - which I find more impressive than anything as the visuals in a community mod with unpaid volunteers are bringing down the FPS on my system, which isn't exactly an old machine.  That's testimony to how much work has gone into this, so I'm pretty impressed.  The lowest FPS I've clocked so far is 29, which considering no other FSO mod has brought me below then 60 I have v-synced it at, is pretty damn impressive =)

On the plus side, the keybinds to fix your weapons in "The Intervention" worked just fine, so it's not a problem with every bind in the game ;)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 12:25:21 pm
That's testimony to how much work has gone into this, so I'm pretty impressed.  The lowest FPS I've clocked so far is 29, which considering no other FSO mod has brought me below then 60 I have v-synced it at, is pretty damn impressive =)

Don't give us too much credit! It's a testimony to how badly optimized the models are. We really need to get Steve-O's ships tuned up; they can work a lot better while still looking just as good.

Quote
On the plus side, the keybinds to fix your weapons in "The Intervention" worked just fine, so it's not a problem with every bind in the game ;)

Awesome.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 08, 2010, 12:35:48 pm
Spoiler:
Mission where you save the Vasudan logistics vessel was masterful. First time ever that I had trouble pulling the trigger against enemies in any game. I don't think I fired a shot at all in the second half. Much more powerful than the airport level in MW2 in emotional shock, for what it's worth.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 12:37:31 pm
Spoiler:
Mission where you save the Vasudan logistics vessel was masterful. First time ever that I had trouble pulling the trigger against enemies in any game. I don't think I fired a shot at all in the second half. Much more powerful than the airport level in MW2 in emotional shock, for what it's worth.

Wow, awesome, thanks.
Spoiler:
We were really worried about that one; I'm glad it paid off.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 08, 2010, 12:58:30 pm
Spoiler:
At least I'm not the only one who didn't shoot at that part. :nervous:

Going to try finishing up today, with the advice I got early this morning on IRC.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 08, 2010, 01:11:35 pm
Quick question concerning fury AI: What are damage reductions/refire rates/max attackers/max turrets at each level? I'm playing at medium, because I'm going for a plot run first, and I'm not sure if my survivability is due to the awesome UEF fighters or player handicaps.

I mean, if I get caught in a torrent of primary fire and can't shake it, I'm dead in 2 seconds, which is definitely not the same as in retail medium. Yet, sometimes I pass missions with 100% hull integrity because my shields somehow soak up everything. Anyways, the point is, ideally, I'd like a difficulty with 0 handicaps, but not the h4x aiming skillz that exist in retail insane.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 08, 2010, 01:15:50 pm
Open bp2-aip.tbm from bp2-core.vp and find out. :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 08, 2010, 01:53:38 pm
This is relevant to my interests.
Spoiler:
I spotted the shield.ani for the FTFx Thor, is the .pof somewhere around in the visual.vp?

And I've been wondering about these two...
Spoiler:
Little Devil and BALLS OF STEELE (Lawl)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 08, 2010, 02:55:00 pm

wtf

It sounds like you have a borked pilot file. That is not a bug we've ever seen.

I figured it was something specific to me, but I also figured it was best to bring it up since I'm not exactly a modder and could be wrong.

If you want me to provide anything data wise I'm happy to help out, nothing else popped up the entire campaign.

No, you did exactly the right thing. We need to sort this out!

Can you launch your FreeSpace 2 install using WiH as a mod and then post the debug log? If you don't know how to generate one see the Support forum.

If you have a VP viewer like VPView (duh), could you also do me a favor and extract the bp2-15 mission file and send the text file to me via Pastebin? I need to make sure something hasn't gone wrong, because the mission file is quite explicit that
Spoiler:
the Jackknife ships will ONLY arrive once the Indus is precisely 8618 meters from the Carthage.

I'll get on it. 

Spoiler:
With regard to your 2nd post, I just tried it launching from the tech room and I got jackknife jumping in when I was about 10.5k out from the carthage, since I was behind the group at the time it seems to be coming in at the correct distance.  however this happened almost immediately after the initial 2 Tev corvettes attacked (I still have tons of trouble making the leander jump away, it never seems too, even when all it's main beams are gone), so something is definitely still screwy there.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 02:56:55 pm

wtf

It sounds like you have a borked pilot file. That is not a bug we've ever seen.

I figured it was something specific to me, but I also figured it was best to bring it up since I'm not exactly a modder and could be wrong.

If you want me to provide anything data wise I'm happy to help out, nothing else popped up the entire campaign.

No, you did exactly the right thing. We need to sort this out!

Can you launch your FreeSpace 2 install using WiH as a mod and then post the debug log? If you don't know how to generate one see the Support forum.

If you have a VP viewer like VPView (duh), could you also do me a favor and extract the bp2-15 mission file and send the text file to me via Pastebin? I need to make sure something hasn't gone wrong, because the mission file is quite explicit that
Spoiler:
the Jackknife ships will ONLY arrive once the Indus is precisely 8618 meters from the Carthage.

I'll get on it. 

Spoiler:
With regard to your 2nd post, I just tried it launching from the tech room and I got jackknife jumping in when I was about 10.5k out from the carthage, since I was behind the group at the time it seems to be coming in at the correct distance.  however this happened almost immediately after the initial 2 Tev corvettes attacked (I still have tons of trouble making the leander jump away, it never seems too, even when all it's main beams are gone), so something is definitely still screwy there.

Something is definitely screwy. Can you get a debug log up, please?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 08, 2010, 02:59:58 pm
Am currently running through the support forum trying to figure out exactly how to do that

edit: Updated with debug log.
Spoiler:
Complete with Jackknife arriving waaaay before the order goes out, and the ensuing charlie-foxtrot-

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2010, 03:17:29 pm
Spoiler:
Mission where you save the Vasudan logistics vessel was masterful. First time ever that I had trouble pulling the trigger against enemies in any game. I don't think I fired a shot at all in the second half. Much more powerful than the airport level in MW2 in emotional shock, for what it's worth.

Wow, awesome, thanks.
Spoiler:
We were really worried about that one; I'm glad it paid off.


That dang bastard artillery frigate...I was gonna kill it if I had the ordinance to :<

I had problems shooting the Tevs to begin with...however, this mission is when I started shooting friendlies, attempting to kill however many I can without triggering traitor. :P
HINT: High damage missiles are good for this.

Which led me to...

Spoiler:
Attempting to kill the Elder shuttle on the moon and failing because it was invulnerable, but the suceeding in the next mission. Then I had a conversation with a dead person, and then someone said something about stealth fighters that never appear, and nothing happens for the rest of the mission.

I may have just broken a mission with my (sucessful) traitorous attempts!
In my defense the my supar secret was about to be busted. :nervous:

I'm just gonna replay the mission and not do anything that is obviously not intended for me to do, but a heads up anyway :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Tantalus53 on August 08, 2010, 03:36:45 pm
War In Heaven...

Spoiler:
When I just joined HLP, heard about and played inferno, i was waiting patiently for Inf. SCP. I was disappointed. When I heard it was finally released, I had my faith restored in Freespace. That big sequels /were/ possible.

Ill admit i had a bit of Sequel syndrome when i first started, figured it was gonna be on the over-glorified side, like i did with Halo 2.. I had unreal expectations of this mod. Then it went around and /fulfilled/ these unreal expectations. And even surpassed them. Darius and Co. you all have done it again. Though If you ask me, I personally prefer AoA (More or less, I only say that cause I cant admit that I enjoy killing Tev Pilots >>... GTVA FOR THE WIN.) Im at one of the best missions though, says Genny B and Nighteyes, so ill probably change my mind. DOESNT MEAN I LIKE UEF THOUGH. Cant wait for Part 2.

I<3 Admiral Steel, by the way.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2010, 03:45:14 pm
Ok, now my stupid wingmen went ahead and nuke the Norfolk when I gave them all the order to friggin ignore it, after smacking into me in a retarded series of collisions for the past five minutes and preventing my rearm :/
Thank you for failing the mission for me, worthless bozos.

Gotta do this one again too and pray they don't get any stupid ideas :/
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IronBeer on August 08, 2010, 03:45:24 pm
This is the finest FSO campaign I've ever seen. Full stop. No quantification.

Now I'm just dying for part II... "join the club", I suppose.

Anyhow, specifics:
Spoiler:
Oh, man. Where to start? Meh, no specific order needed.

1. The characters. This is what made AoA good, and it's what makes WiH legendary. I felt for pretty much everybody involved, except the GTVA asshole COs. Them I wanted to see pasted, but that can't a unique feeling. Speaking of which- during the last few moments of the "Delenda est", as the UEF battlegroup is getting slaughtered, I was legitimately upset, venting my frustration and impotent rage on the forces attempting to block the Indus' escape. No game, and only a few works of fiction, have ever stirred that kind of response before.

Laporte I found especially compelling, not particularly because of her sensitivity to "Ken" (and thus her existence as the protagonist), but because her personality (and transformation) were believable. Beginning with the first mission, her thoughts when scoring a kill: "Sorry mate, better you than me", "Hey, this is kinda fun"; then everything else from that point forward (the diary entries, the things she says during missions and briefings) created somebody that I could almost cross paths with in reality.

To degrees consistent with their significance to the story, all the other characters were done just as well, and to expound on each would take way too long.
Moving on...

2. The writing. Brutal. The plot to me was nightmarish, especially when emotional investment with the characters was so well done. There were two moments in particular, when rescuing the Vasudan logistics ship, and the first part of "Delenda Est", where the writers actually allow us to feel a glimmer of hope. Which is promptly shat upon, viciously in the latter case. I'ma go out on a limb and guess that General Battua had a pretty big hand in crafting the plot. Regardless of whether that's right or wrong, major kudos to whoever developed the plot- it was pretty much unpredictable, and really jerks the player around by their heartstrings.

3. The music. This deserves its own section. AoA's soundtrack impressed me so much that I include it on my everyday iPod lineup, and WiH will have that honor as well. Once I get around to extracting the thing, that is. One case that particularly stands out in my mind was the use of Apocalyptica's "How Far" during the SOC fight. Ditto with the use of "Lacrimosa". Don't get me wrong- all the music was spot-on, and kick-ass.

4. The Graphics. Beautiful to a T. Granted, a lot of that was probably the 3.6.12 MediaVPs- hats off to the MediaVPs staff, by the way- but all the Blueplanet-specific assets were all amazing, especially the Luna sequence. Atmospheric flight, here we come?

5. The Ugly. I want to say this campaign was perfect. I really do. But even legends can have flaws, and here are a couple that stood out for me. The dogfight at the conclusion of "Intervention" kicked my ass several times. Figured out how to win eventually (the trick is to not get shot), but the process frayed my patience a bit too much to be fun. But don't get hung up on this complaint- maybe I just kinda suck with the Kentauroi,

The only other "low" was the closing cinematic following "Sunglare". I could hear my computer crying, and it maintained playable framerates throughout the rest of the campaign, even the soon-to-be-storied "Delenda Est". On the other hand, the graphical assets are due for optimization, so this prolly won't stay a problem. By the way, do all the scenes in that closing cinematic exist in one "mission zone"?
Whew. Congratulations, Blueplanet team. I think you lot have made history.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 08, 2010, 03:57:13 pm
This is the finest FSO campaign I've ever seen. Full stop. No quantification.

Now I'm just dying for part II... "join the club", I suppose.

Anyhow, specifics:
Spoiler:

4. The Graphics. Beautiful to a T. Granted, a lot of that was probably the 3.6.12 MediaVPs- hats off to the MediaVPs staff, by the way- but all the Blueplanet-specific assets were all amazing, especially the Luna sequence. Atmospheric flight, here we come?

Spoiler:
Truth is, many of the more spectacular mediavps effects, like the bomb flash and the burning debris, were developed partially for BP first, and then donated to the mediavps

Quote
Spoiler:
By the way, do all the scenes in that closing cinematic exist in one "mission zone"?

Spoiler:
There is actually no other way to do it!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: [Wolf]Maverick on August 08, 2010, 04:05:17 pm
Just finished it.
Great Job from the whole team. Truely a masterpiece, that surpass AoA. Can't wait for Part 2
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IronBeer on August 08, 2010, 04:18:23 pm
Spoiler:
There is actually no other way to do it!
@The E: Guessed as much, just wanted to be sure.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 04:19:48 pm
Ok, now my stupid wingmen went ahead and nuke the Norfolk when I gave them all the order to friggin ignore it, after smacking into me in a retarded series of collisions for the past five minutes and preventing my rearm :/
Thank you for failing the mission for me, worthless bozos.

Gotta do this one again too and pray they don't get any stupid ideas :/

I'm trying to figure out how to improve this behavior (the collision issue is really annoying, but I mean the Norfolk nuking) and it bemuses me that you somehow managed to get this to happen, because as soon as the Norfolk is disarmed/disabled, they:

a) get their goals cleared
b) the Norfolk is IFFed to Unknown
c) the Norfolk is protected

I've never seen it occur!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2010, 04:35:51 pm
It was disabled but it didn't IFF change to unknown.
It was hostile and they just all swarmed it with Gattlers.

Also, I suspect this is an issue on my end, but...90% of the campaign has no music. At all. The only time there was music was the mission above the moon (the one where you do nothing but fly in a straight line)...

I'm pretty sure its just something with FSO or OpenAL on my end since I get no sounds anyway (even on retail!) with 3.6.12 builds, so I'm on 3.6.13 just to be able to hear anything.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 04:37:25 pm
It was disabled but it didn't IFF change to unknown.
It was hostile and they just all swarmed it with Gattlers.

Also, I suspect this is an issue on my end, but...90% of the campaign has no music. At all. The only time there was music was the mission above the moon (the one where you do nothing but fly in a straight line)

:lol:

Your install is le borked. Get a debug log up pronto!

As a fix for the nuke issue I'm gonna armor the Norfolk a little.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2010, 04:38:12 pm
I've tried debug it happens with retail. (not no music, but no interface/afterburner sounds)
I didn't see anything suspicious.

And yay! You used my dark Orion textures for the Carthage!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 04:39:15 pm
I've tried debug it happens with retail. (not no music, but no interface/afterburner sounds)

Get a debug log up pronto!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 08, 2010, 04:41:33 pm
One thing. If you encounter that "missing music" bug, quit the game and restart.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2010, 04:42:02 pm
One thing. If you encounter that "missing music" bug, quit the game and restart.

That fixes it.
What causes it? O_o
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 08, 2010, 04:45:21 pm
Some bug in the sound code that hasn't been tracked down yet.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2010, 05:44:41 pm
Ah, well I finished it.

Now that I'm done I can actually make an actual review.

Spoiler:
It was good. Not "go tell your grandkids" good like AoA, but solid, and recommended. For me, it didn't really live up to all its hype.
It didn't leave me going "holy crap, holy crap, that was awesome, I'm going to tell EVERYONE!" at the end like AoA did, but it did leave me thinking.

The characters, I felt were a lot less identifiable with than in AoA. Most specifically the main character. I could empathize with Sam, but Noemi for me felt...detached and her beliefs were so different. It was certainly interesting watching her realize herself, but I never really felt right flying as her. Perhaps its just because I never got to see what happened in Sol in the BP verse, but got to see the events of FS2. That made me far more attached to the GTVA than the UEF. Sure, the UEF are the victims of this war, but if they knew what was good for them they would stand down. If they can't even take on four GTVA destroyers in their home system, they'll never survive a Shivan incursion.

The plot was fairly slow for the first act, which consisted primarily of escort missions of one variety or another, even "Darkest Hour" and the attack on the GTD Meridian didn't feel very intense (mostly because my wingmen just blew everything to bits without me even doing anything). Perhaps it wasn't meant to be played on Easy/Medium but rather on Insane (or maybe it was the lack of intense music cause of the sound glitch that I didn't know about). It all changes in the second act, though. "Delenda Est" was masterful, if not cripplingly frustrating, seeing as it's so effing difficult to save the Katana and Altan Orde from the Deimos, only to have them be gutted by the Imperieuse anyway. I would have to admit, though, that seeing the GTVA the badass mofo Steele lay the smackdown on the UEF was satisfying, yet saddening at the same time (hearing all the "goodbyes" and all).

Shame FSO's sound code is glitchy and I played 80% of the campaign without music (and without knowing it) :( :( :(. The pieces I did hear were superb. Even without music though, the missions were designed well enough to make me think that it might have been intentional, just to...make the mood eerie yet solemn (until I realized EVERYTHING had no music including the mainhall). I really should play it again with music.

The graphics were great, though a bit lag-inducing :P
It was...interesting seeing mutant versions of the Kadmos, Tane, Morana, and Liberty flying around as civilian ships.

All in all, I don't think I have any real qualms about the campaign, there was nothing wrong with it, just that I would have preferred it be done from the GTVA perspective instead, but that would be a completely different story altogether. :P

It certainly did show me how hard it is to fight against what you believe in...even in a game. The backstory was just too well done and polarized me far to much for me to truly enjoy flying for the UEF. XD The GTVA spent the whole campaign asserting its badassery, so I guess I'm happy with that.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 08, 2010, 05:55:13 pm
Finished WiH today. Took me 3 days. So here's my honest review (Spoilers may be included, read at your own risk)

My pc didn't had too much trouble with the visual goodies so yeah, WiH is a sight to behold. You wouldn't guess the game is 10+ years old if you play WiH.
The writing was really well done, Battuta showed his skills there. At times though, a bit too much. :p long logs and briefings makes WiH feel more like a novel then a game at times. I mean, the log entry inbetween the mission
Spoiler:
where you lure the Carthage and then scramble to follow it
was a bit of a flowbreaker.

The characters are realistically written, felt kinda Battlestar galactica like in atmosphere. Though I personally couldn't really care too much about them, they are realistic but not really 'likeable'. But hey, perhaps thats just me. I just personally start to lose interest rather fast when a lot of time is devoted to how persons feel and the state of their emotional health etc. (And really, I just hope
Spoiler:
simms dies for good so the lesbian subtones will stop...
)
Best character of the game is Seele. Kicking ass in the name of the GTVA, I salute you dear sir o7

In terms of Fredding the missions are all solid and well done ('cept for the last mission, which was impossible to complete without cheating. Even when I turned invincible and fully focused on taking out beam cannons, the Katana nearly died), the checkpoint system works beautifully. The skip dialouge parts didn't seemed to do much for me though.
When I think back, a few missions really spring to mind:
Spoiler:
the one with the dialouge tree (I felt kinda quilty going through that one only once, knowing how much effort it takes to fred that one) the one with the ejected gaian dude/chick/hostage situation, the missions where you face several pilots with nicknames and the cease fire over the vasudan ship (Which was quite a masterpiece of writing I might add, I too didn't liked shooting anyone in that mission.)
The only rotten apple was the last mission.  :ick:

Gameplay wise though, I was less enthusiastic about WiH. I really felt that so much time was spend on military tactics, military language and 'realistic' combat that the WiH team forgot that this is... a game? Several times in Act 1 I felt like I was just a useless presence on a field of cool looking battleships doing their thing without me being able to influence anything. "Why bother going after that fighter? It won't be a threat to that capship with its endless flak doom cannons anyway. Oh hey, bombers! Something relevant to kill!". I felt I was just there to witness a story being told. The GTVA is kicking ass (Hell yeah!) and the buntu's are a bunch of stumbling fools in comparison. And you are just there... looking at it happen. The first few missions felt kinda disjointed too (little relevance to each other) Act 2 was better in this regard, on occasion I actually had to do things (though it was often fine to let your team mates do the killing too) and it finally felt like I had to 'play' the game when the Uriel gunship became available. The missions started becoming 'chained together' too, instead of the "Escort this, Go here, Do this" of act 1.
Perhaps I was expecting too much Vassago Dirge level of 'holy **** wow' moments. I feel like I fell victim to 'overhype' for this campaign :(

I was honestly disappointed with the player selectable weapons (and how little info was being provided about what they do in the weapon loadout). A high RoF dakka gun, a slow RoF energy gun, an anti subsystem primary for the first part of the game. Along with the default dumbfire, aspect and swarm missiles. To be honest, I expected some more creativity there. I hardly felt it mattered what weapons I brought with me. (An other case of too much focus on awesome capship weaponry?) I actually felt a feeling of joy when I got to fly the GTVA stuff in that one mission.

The music was a bit of a hit or miss at times. Like, I was completely getting pumped up when the track in the first mission started playing... but then after those first few fighters it just promptly ceased... That was such a turn off  :p  An other case was the music used when you fly
Spoiler:
over the moonbase.
It felt like victory music but... all you did was fly and talk. Yet in several cutscenes and other cases the usage of music was spot on and plain epic.

In conclusion: WiH is a really good, polished campaign, that put its focus a tad too much on military tactics and capital ships (and imho, a bit too much on the emotions of the characters) and seems to forget at times at it is a game instead of a semi-interactive novel.
Here's hoping that for Act 3 and 4 the WiH team will focus some more on the gameplay and less on trival things like the distance of the earth from the moon and the position of the sun :p

Also, as im typing this, I see Droid803 posted a review too and I'm glad to see he agrees with me on what a badass Seele is and how satisfying it was to see him kick UEF ass :lol:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2010, 05:58:29 pm
/me agrees with Spoon

He probably said it better than I did.

I do have to add that the VLS torpedoes on the Karuna are awesome.
I have a thing for the Vagyr battlecruiser, see, and I'd love to see something that mounts like a rack of 10 of them along the op of the spine :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 08, 2010, 06:17:15 pm
I have now finished the campaign.  Review is as follows:

Firstly, generalities.

I was immensely impressed at the quality of the campaign at the end of Act I.  By the end of the campaign, I was absolutely blown away by the depth and quality presented.  I could feel a connection with the character as she plunged into the horrors of war, watched treasured friends die around her, struggling with the morality of an ever shifting conflict that shakes her to her soul and back again.  I could fairly taste the desperation as the UEF suffered blow after blow after blow, and feel the burning fury of pilots who had lost everything but themselves, and sometimes even that.  

Beyond the emotional connection to the protagonists, the combat sequences were masterfully executed, exhibiting wonderful, if challenging, balance, believable chatter, unique objectives, and enough recurring characters and vessels to lend a sense of solidity to the gameplay and overarching storyline.

The vast new and improved aresenal of both the UEF and GT(V)A leads to a varied and interesting combat dynamic, not altogether unlike an amazingly beautiful game of rock/paper/scissors carried out instead by kilotons of nuclear fury, shattering reports and impacts of ballistic cannons, and the harshly concentrated death and destruction of high-yield energy weapons.  Space superiority fighters are exactly what it says on the tin, Interceptors shoot down bombers, bombers kill capships, and capships kill everything smaller than them, up to and including other capships.  The way the player moves from flying the Uhlan SSF to the Interceptor fighter to the gunship is carried out in a believable way, much more so than the retail Freespace 2 campaign, where pilots are seemingly transferred between squadrons and combat roles at the tip of a hat.  There are only very few nearly useless weapons, while nearly everything else finds a decent use in different situations.  Granted, there are some stupidly good weapons, but those are used little enough, or are frequently unsuited the objective at hand, making their exceptional quality as weapons slightly less noticeable.

There were scant few bugs, and only one thing dampened my enjoyment of the game as a whole: the Karuna.  I am fully aware that the BP team is already trying to fix that, but everytime a Karuna enters the field, it pulls the rug out from under the framerate, making escort missions hellaciously irritating in practice, if not in theory.  Perhaps being forced to use a control scheme I am unfamiliar with exacerbated the problem, but it exists nonetheless.  

The music used was completely appropriate, a wonderful mix of hopeful, hopeless, triumphant, exhilarated, furious, and mournful.  Music can make or break a campaign, and, as in the vein of Age of Aquarius, the music for this campaign doesn't merely not break, or even make the campaign; it elevates the campaign on a gilded pedestal of awesomeness.

I have to leave for the moment, but I'll write the rest of this when I get back and edit this post.

EDIT:  1000th POST!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thorbin on August 08, 2010, 06:33:31 pm
Thanks again for your help in troubleshooting my Freespace 2 installation. Once I got WiH working, I almost couldn't stop. :yes: The missions were well crafted, and bring a growing sense of doom. I have to agree with the performance issues. Some of the larger battles turned my system into a slideshow a few times, but it is probably nothing a little fine tuning couldn't fix.
I also thought your selection in music was excellent. Your opening cutscene made good use of the music from the Star Trek trailer, and was there a piece from District 9 (that somber chanting music which would pop up when a mission went particularly bad)?
I look forward to part 2 with baited breath.  :hopping:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 08, 2010, 06:57:48 pm
Gameplay wise though, I was less enthusiastic about WiH. I really felt that so much time was spend on military tactics, military language and 'realistic' combat that the WiH team forgot that this is... a game? Several times in Act 1 I felt like I was just a useless presence on a field of cool looking battleships doing their thing without me being able to influence anything. "Why bother going after that fighter? It won't be a threat to that capship with its endless flak doom cannons anyway. Oh hey, bombers! Something relevant to kill!". I felt I was just there to witness a story being told.

You know, I'm surprised to hear this, because it's rather contradictory to what I thought about the first version. Combat in WiH version one was simple, clean, goal-oriented, classic FS. The player always had a purpose and it was clearly defined with pretty much one exception that was almost unnoticed because it was an in-mission cutscene. However they'd clearly worked on having things make sense from a strategy standpoint. (Well, sort of. I think the UEF was getting their ass kicked because they didn't really understand and that view seemed to surprise a few people.)

Of course I also believe that UEF flak at that stage was a lot less impressive. And it was pre-Fury AI, which from what you've said may have contributed to damaging your view by making the capitals much more impressive.

I was honestly disappointed with the player selectable weapons (and how little info was being provided about what they do in the weapon loadout). A high RoF dakka gun, a slow RoF energy gun, an anti subsystem primary for the first part of the game. Along with the default dumbfire, aspect and swarm missiles. To be honest, I expected some more creativity there. I hardly felt it mattered what weapons I brought with me. (An other case of too much focus on awesome capship weaponry?) I actually felt a feeling of joy when I got to fly the GTVA stuff in that one mission.

That, I know they were warned about.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 07:09:16 pm
Gameplay wise though, I was less enthusiastic about WiH. I really felt that so much time was spend on military tactics, military language and 'realistic' combat that the WiH team forgot that this is... a game? Several times in Act 1 I felt like I was just a useless presence on a field of cool looking battleships doing their thing without me being able to influence anything. "Why bother going after that fighter? It won't be a threat to that capship with its endless flak doom cannons anyway. Oh hey, bombers! Something relevant to kill!". I felt I was just there to witness a story being told.

You know, I'm surprised to hear this, because it's rather contradictory to what I thought about the first version. Combat in WiH version one was simple, clean, goal-oriented, classic FS. The player always had a purpose and it was clearly defined with pretty much one exception that was almost unnoticed because it was an in-mission cutscene. However they'd clearly worked on having things make sense from a strategy standpoint. (Well, sort of. I think the UEF was getting their ass kicked because they didn't really understand and that view seemed to surprise a few people.)

Of course I also believe that UEF flak at that stage was a lot less impressive. And it was pre-Fury AI, which from what you've said may have contributed to damaging your view by making the capitals much more impressive.

I was honestly disappointed with the player selectable weapons (and how little info was being provided about what they do in the weapon loadout). A high RoF dakka gun, a slow RoF energy gun, an anti subsystem primary for the first part of the game. Along with the default dumbfire, aspect and swarm missiles. To be honest, I expected some more creativity there. I hardly felt it mattered what weapons I brought with me. (An other case of too much focus on awesome capship weaponry?) I actually felt a feeling of joy when I got to fly the GTVA stuff in that one mission.

That, I know they were warned about.

Spoon's criticisms are rooted more in comparison with his own mod than FS2 retail. *shrug* But they're definitely things we're interested in improving, especially weapon diversity.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 08, 2010, 07:18:41 pm
Spoon's criticisms are rooted more in comparison with his own mod than FS2 retail. *shrug* But they're definitely things we're interested in improving, especially weapon diversity.

No, I'm pretty sure he has an overall point. :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 07:20:45 pm
Spoon's criticisms are rooted more in comparison with his own mod than FS2 retail. *shrug* But they're definitely things we're interested in improving, especially weapon diversity.

No, I'm pretty sure he has an overall point. :P

We'd like to improve weapon variety in R2; we cut several weapons from R2 that in retrospect maybe should have stayed there. But other points were simply consequences of our design decisions and are, as the saying goes, intended behavior.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 08, 2010, 07:29:00 pm
We'd like to improve weapon variety in R2; we cut several weapons from R2 that in retrospect maybe should have stayed there. But other points were simply consequences of our design decisions and are, as the saying goes, intended behavior.

I'm not saying that's wrong, but I am saying that your statement about "not differences from FS2 retail" are wrong.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 07:29:51 pm
We'd like to improve weapon variety in R2; we cut several weapons from R2 that in retrospect maybe should have stayed there. But other points were simply consequences of our design decisions and are, as the saying goes, intended behavior.

I'm not saying that's wrong, but I am saying that your statement about "not differences from FS2 retail" are wrong.

Depending on the parsing you intend there, I don't recall making such a statement.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 08, 2010, 07:37:14 pm
We'd like to improve weapon variety in R2; we cut several weapons from R2 that in retrospect maybe should have stayed there. But other points were simply consequences of our design decisions and are, as the saying goes, intended behavior.

I'm not saying that's wrong, but I am saying that your statement about "not differences from FS2 retail" are wrong.

Depending on the parsing you intend there, I don't recall making such a statement.

Aye, NGTM, he said that Spoon's comparisons were based more on his own mod than FS2, not entirely. Though I've no idea how true that is and will not get involved in this one beyond this scant contribution.

I finished the campaign, people have spoken more eloquently than I about it's pros and cons, though for me, really, I didn't really have any cons (Beyond Fed protagonists. Boo! Hiss! etc), my computer handled the detail excellently and the campaign was sheer poetry.

Loved it.

Also, 'The Blade Itself'  :yes: - Moar please.

Throw my voice behind "I want part 2 naow!"
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dr. Pwnguin on August 08, 2010, 07:44:52 pm
Heh, did a second playthrough. :)

Spoiler:

Who thought of Mr. Cuddles? I didn't DIVE, DIVE, DIVE fast enough xD






Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thorbin on August 08, 2010, 07:55:28 pm
Spoiler:
What is the significance in the term 'Nagari' and where does it come from in real life? The only reference I found was it being a name for one of the written languages used in India.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2010, 07:58:08 pm
Spoiler:
What is the significance in the term 'Nagari' and where does it come from in real life? The only reference I found was it being a name for one of the written languages used in India.
Spoiler:
Go to the tech room, select "Intelligence" and read the entry titled "Project Nagari". Essentially it's a naturally occurring phenomenon that allows certain individuals to communicate with Shivans (and Vishnans). ETAK artificially replicated this.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 08, 2010, 08:02:21 pm
Certainly I admit, the player selectable weapons felt underwhelming to the stuff I grew used to in my own mod (Which has some rather over the top missiles and a wide set of primaries). Compared with retail FS2 the weapons in WiH do pretty well. (And no, please do not take this as a 'I think my mod is better then yours!' kinda thing (because its not intended as such). I only replied to this because Bats brought it up.)

Quote from: NGTM-1R
You know, I'm surprised to hear this, because it's rather contradictory to what I thought about the first version. Combat in WiH version one was simple, clean, goal-oriented, classic FS. The player always had a purpose and it was clearly defined with pretty much one exception that was almost unnoticed because it was an in-mission cutscene. However they'd clearly worked on having things make sense from a strategy standpoint. (Well, sort of. I think the UEF was getting their ass kicked because they didn't really understand and that view seemed to surprise a few people.)

Of course I also believe that UEF flak at that stage was a lot less impressive. And it was pre-Fury AI, which from what you've said may have contributed to damaging your view by making the capitals much more impressive.
(First version?  :confused:)
Well what I was trying to say was, Capships have such impressive Anti fighter screens. That lone enemy fighters don't mean a thing if you are escorting a capship.
True, most WiH missions had rather clear directives and most of the time I didn't had any problems understanding what was expected of me. When I wrote that bit, one mission was kinda stuck in my mind. In which I really had a moment of looking at big ships doing their things and events unfolding beyond my influence with a friendly capship spewing flak and a few scattered enemy fighters going about. I had a moment of "Why bother with the small fry?" back then. Because capships can handle themselves quite well in WiH. (In Retail, fighters can be quite dangerous because capships have such pathetic AA)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 08, 2010, 08:12:32 pm
NGTM-1R was part of the first Beta. The campaign underwent a rather massive change after that one (Or so the people who played both versions tell me; I was brought on the team only after it had concluded).
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SuperCoolAl on August 08, 2010, 08:40:58 pm
You screwed with my head so much in this campaign. Well done :)

I say this is BETTER than AoA. I think this comes from the depth of a human war compared to a human v Shivan war. This was a fresh experience, the faction we play is significantly different than what we are used to. It was immensely fun to play, I liked all the characters and the community spirit among the squadmates. The FREDing was impeccable, the visual and aural scape as professional as you can get from a project like this.

I don't particularly like this GTVA, though. They definitely aren't the same GTVA as in FS2, they use too many 'dirty tricks' and attack civilians. And I don't feel like I understand the ultimate aim of the UEF in this war.
Spoiler:
They think the destruction of the Carthage will immediately turn public opinion in the GTVA against the war? Sounds pretty delusional.
Oh and please please please
Spoiler:
continue the romantic subplot! :nod:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 08:47:10 pm
Certainly I admit, the player selectable weapons felt underwhelming to the stuff I grew used to in my own mod (Which has some rather over the top missiles and a wide set of primaries). Compared with retail FS2 the weapons in WiH do pretty well. (And no, please do not take this as a 'I think my mod is better then yours!' kinda thing (because its not intended as such). I only replied to this because Bats brought it up.)

Actually I think your mod is way better than WiH in that respect, and I will heap praise on Dawn for its creative and awesome gameplay elements.

We definitely want to open up the sandbox in R2, I think. I have a few non-standard elements in mind that I've talked with you about on IRC.

Quote
I had a moment of "Why bother with the small fry?" back then. Because capships can handle themselves quite well in WiH. (In Retail, fighters can be quite dangerous because capships have such pathetic AA)

Go play the m07 opening, or the 2v4 dogfight in The Intervention. Now consider that the AI levels on those fighters...aren't actually extraordinarily high.

Now think about some of those big battle missions with whole squadrons of fighters using that AI, and imagine what they'd be like without the Karunas to serve as a base of fire! Our whole concept with the Karuna was to expand the interaction between players and warships by creating a 'warship buddy' for fighter pilots that they could use as anti-Trebuchet cover and a place to run to when they were in trouble. (The fluff makes it specific that UEF fighter pilots are drilled heavily on working closely with their frigates, whereas the GTVA pilot corps has a problem with being trained to stand well clear due to the problem of beam friendly fire.)

So yes, Karunas eat fighters alive; but if they didn't you'd have a whole different kind of gameplay problem. It's not perfect, but it was the direction we chose to experiment in, and stuff like the opening dogfight in Aristeia attests to the fighters still being a fairly real threat.

Thus the excellent flak screen.

Also one of our design goals was to reduce the Alpha 1 Effect. Which I will admit does not always produce player-centric, agentic gameplay, which is a problem we worried about a lot during development.

I don't particularly like this GTVA, though. They definitely aren't the same GTVA as in FS2, they use too many 'dirty tricks' and attack civilians.

Well...consider that they feel they're fighting for the survival of all humanity. You can read up on their motivations on the techroom, but basically they believe that Ubuntu and the Federation that supports it are dangerous, delusional ideologies that will render mankind defenseless.

Thus the decision to adopt a total war stance against the Federation. (They're also a bit more desperate than the FS2 GTVA, coming off an 18-year depression that they survived only because of the unifying power of the dream of a return to Earth.)

You'll note they only attack civilians as collateral damage in the pursuit of war-critical targets, too.

Quote
And I don't feel like I understand the ultimate aim of the UEF in this war.
Spoiler:
They think the destruction of the Carthage will immediately turn public opinion in the GTVA against the war? Sounds pretty delusional.

Spoiler:
You can certainly accuse the 2nd and 3rd Fleet elements of the UEF Navy of optimism in that regard. More likely their aim was to get Admiral Steele relieved of command and yet another admiral shuttled in to get better results - the failure of Steele's risky tactics would have undercut his political backing. Think of the relief of the initial US commander in Iraq, or the Union generals in the US Civil War.

Also bear in mind that that plan didn't come from the Elders, it came from Netreba and Byrne.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Cpt. Ritter on August 08, 2010, 08:58:29 pm
I troll mostly on these forums... but this release begs a post.

Simply put, Blue Planet was awesome on its own. I've played it probably more times than I've played retail FS2 now. In fact, its hard to play retail FS2 (even with the media vps) because blue planet is so much better.

I had high hopes for War in Heaven (simply because I knew it was going to be awesome from the get go) I was completely unprepared for what I just recently played through in more or less one sitting. I pay $50-60 for great games with great stories, that have development teams and costs something about 100 mil or more to make. (completely made up stat). War in Heaven is free. I would pay $50-60 for War in Heaven because it is that good. Heck, that doesn't even begin to describe it. War in Heaven defies any adjective I can attribute to compliment it. Story is wonderful, the ships are gorgeous, the fredding is near perfect, the missions themselves are exciting.

I was swept up in the tide of emotion. Fear, anger, understanding, calm, grief. Not many games can make that claim, few manage to do it so eloquently. Sufficient to say, War in Heaven is the best FS2 mod I have ever played. The team has outdone itself, seriously outdone itself. You guys have done what professional teams struggle to do. I'm still awe-struck by War in Heaven, and probably will still be for some time.

Fantastic work (understatement of the century)... but its really the only way to wrap up this post.

Title: lol
Post by: Infamus on August 08, 2010, 09:19:20 pm
Gameplay: 10
Graphics: 11
Use of extras: 10
weapons: 9 needs moar balance ie the Rapier used almost no energy for a heavy gun and the gattler needs a realistic gun sound (try the descent 2 Gauss sound)
Ships: 8 the fed ships were too far more powerful than the tevs'
Music: 9
Feeling: 10 \
Story: 10    /  This is the phucking Twilight Zone.


but this story REALLY needs some フリクリ
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 08, 2010, 09:21:20 pm
I... uh... what did I just read  :wtf:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 08, 2010, 09:23:38 pm
I... uh... what did I just read  :wtf:

what i think, if you don't like how i think TOO BAD if you don't like what i think then SAY SOMETHING.
Title: Re: wtf?
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 09:25:18 pm
First of all, why do i get the impression that some of the crew are lesbians and that the Feds are 75% girls.

The cast of characters in the campaign is heavily skewed male.

Quote
WTF. second, whats up with the quantum 'sensitives' bit? quantum beings are nothing special, just get me a Sovereign with some quantum torps man, tear that **** up (Preemptive strike: don't give me that crap:'this isn't startrek, TREKIE' you've already fubar'd that with the 'alternate realities' bit). Sensitives? are you kiding me? OMG BREAK OUT THE TIN FOIL.

The Nagari Process is based on the FS1 intro.

Quote
but this time the Red Hand is actually the evil shivans military because they have grown so large in force and the shivans who remember the good ol' days are just holding the fort around Capella so the R-Hand doesn't get back in.

What?

Quote
wow, everyone dies and we have some fracking dues ex machina pop out of ****ING NOWHERE, really?

Wait are we playing the same...campaign?

Quote
oh and what about all of the good people of the GTVA?

The GTVA are the good guys. The UEF are the good guys. There are no bad guys. The GTVA is fighting for its values.

Quote
good ol' pilots Like DUCKTAPE (if you don't who i am talking about then you aren't a freespacer, LURK MOAR).

Mackie is from Derelict which is not canon to BP (though sort of alluded to), but Mackie's voice actor actually voices a UEF pilot.

Quote
The GTVA was build from the ground up, to stop the violence, the GTA was built so that if they DID encounter life they could handle the situation under a single entity and not have a bunch of different beliefs that would jeopardize interstellar relations. and who in the ****ing 'verse has the in-humanity to soil their home planet with their own kind who where strangled like animals.

The reason for the GTVA invasion is described at great length in the techroom. We flatter ourselves to think it's pretty convincing.

Quote
to sum it up: HOLLYWOOD. dude next time. lay off the cinema and sit with pencil and paper and DO IT YOURSELF and if you think you are doing well, DO IT AGAIN, Murphy's laws never fail.

I don't understand but whatever you're on I want some!

Quote
shouldn't a depression make them more grateful? the Great depression post WWI was worse and lasted longer. plus with more plants, why the **** did no one try to find more? seriously? they didn't lurk moar? wtf? what happened to the wild west spirit of taking up the most one could gather and taking a trip through the stars? (you have died of dysentery). what happens to that? I guess you don't live in America. or know anything about the old west. or there is no such thing as history class anymore.

Are they mushrooms? I never had much luck with mushrooms.  :(
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 08, 2010, 09:26:56 pm
I... uh... what did I just read  :wtf:

what i think, if you don't like how i think TOO BAD if you don't like what i think then SAY SOMETHING.

No, that wasn't what I was getting at. It was more to do with the haphazard way you set out your opinion. Sure, say something, but goddamn, make sure other people can understand you easily.

Or, like Battuta jokingly implied, we'll think illegal herbage is involved :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2010, 09:29:57 pm
Isn't the "Red Hand" from Tides of Darkness?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 08, 2010, 09:33:02 pm
@General Battuta

with the dues ex, i was NOT referencing to the silly campaign

thank you for clearing that up with the cast being girls bit.

on the last quote : "Cool story bro"
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 08, 2010, 09:34:01 pm
Isn't the "Red Hand" from Tides of Darkness?

yes it is dude i just said that
i prefer the Tides of Darkness take on the shivans. but this time the Red Hand is actually the evil shivans military because they have grown so large in force and the shivans who remember the good ol' days are just holding the fort around Capella so the R-Hand doesn't get back in.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2010, 09:34:58 pm
So uh what does it have to do with War in Heaven?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 09:37:54 pm
And where is there a deus ex machina...?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 08, 2010, 09:42:47 pm
it just might have gone well together, as long as the red hand had officially declared that they were the main force of shivans and rightfully dropped the Red Hand tag now that they compose over 80% of all shivan territory, and mellowed down a bit after, but still pissed.

hey you know what, maybe its backwards and there is a small shivan sect who want the religious antics to end and think that this Great Counsel thing is a bunch of stuff and want it too end?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 08, 2010, 09:43:32 pm
bah, nvm about the dues ex. it was a stupid observation
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2010, 09:45:00 pm
it just might have gone well together, as long as the red hand had officially declared that they were the main force of shivans and rightfully dropped the Red Hand tag now that they compose over 80% of all shivan territory, and mellowed down a bit after, but still pissed.

hey you know what, maybe its backwards and there is a small shivan sect who want the religious antics to end and think that this Great Counsel thing is a bunch of stuff and want it too end?
This has nothing to do with Blue Planet. You are in the wrong place.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 08, 2010, 09:45:04 pm
i give the story a 8.

edit:
@snail: fine, but i don't like the fact that there isn't at least one voob (veteran who acts crazy or stupid) to clear the atmosphere who doesn't die like a scrub, you need some comic relief, you need some フリクリ
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 09:45:23 pm
Guys guys I've updated the War in Heaven release post

(http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/bpheadersmall.jpg)
Blue Planet: War in Heaven
Part 1


"Preemptive strike: don't ask me to DO BETTER I suck at minor details"
"...Sensitives? are you kiding me? OMG BREAK OUT THE TIN FOIL...."
"...oh and what about all of the good people of the GTVA? what happened to the old values? What about all of the awesome good ol' pilots Like DUCKTAPE (if you don't who i am talking about then you aren't a freespacer, LURK MOAR). I firmly believe that High-Comm is filled with a bunch of Second-Incursion space jockey ****ers who just want earth under GTVA rule so they can put the victory on their retirement and their escapade is illegal by old GTA standards and that this ****ing article about illegitimate governments was only in case that earth was ruled by a bunch of ****ing..."
"...I don't feel like editing out my crap so:..."


FEATURES:
  • some of the crew are lesbians
  • have you been watching too much Hollywood? This is so typical Hollywood
  • I need a weapon...
  • dude next time. lay off the cinema and sit with pencil and paper and DO IT YOURSELF
  • kill all of the GTVA while using a bunch of philosophical **** to make excuses
  • What about all of the awesome good ol' pilots Like DUCKTAPE
  • a bunch of ****ing pansies who just frolic about like deer

Infamus, you are my new favorite person. Let's be buddies.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: asyikarea51 on August 08, 2010, 09:48:29 pm
I really didn't know VLS was possible in FSO already like it did in X3. I always thought the missile would just fly, "up, up and away!!!!!" or worse. LOL

Someone said
Spoiler:
that they didn't feel like they were flying as the protagonist. I agree on this somewhat, but since I already take things at third-person perspective quite a bit you could say it simply hit me at a so-called "worse" level than it normally would, if such a level could actually be scaled since both sides of the scale to me are ambiguous. But maybe it helped me with review neutrality? I don't know so I'll just leave it at that I guess.

I should point out that her perfectly normal attitude with the bizarre ability to turn into a stone-cold killer is just... familiar... somewhere. Okay, maybe not at say, Hellstryker's level of familiarity who has a friend or so he said, but it still hit home to me somewhere.

*WTF's at Battuta's post*
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 08, 2010, 09:56:42 pm
@general battuta: HAH HAH HAH THATS TOO FUNNY!

Fine whatever everytime I say something everyone else just uses their position as a excuse to troll, instead of having constructive criticism, and yes most of my post is ****. I'm not a invalid
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 09:57:55 pm
@general battuta: HAH HAH HAH THATS TOO FUNNY!

Fine whatever everytime I say something everyone else just uses their position as a excuse to troll, instead of having constructive criticism, and yes most of my post is ****. I'm not a invalid

No dude, I actually think you're awesome. Welcome aboard.  ;)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2010, 10:04:27 pm
@general battuta: HAH HAH HAH THATS TOO FUNNY!

Fine whatever everytime I say something everyone else just uses their position as a excuse to troll, instead of having constructive criticism, and yes most of my post is ****. I'm not a invalid
Can we be friends?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 08, 2010, 10:11:34 pm
Infamus,

A) I think your review is hilarious.

B) I can actually see where you got some of your points from.

Droid803:

Spoiler:
I could empathize with Sam, but Noemi for me felt...detached and her beliefs were so different. It was certainly interesting watching her realize herself, but I never really felt right flying as her.

That's actually the same way I feel. Well, in regards to the main character anyway. We're just, so, different! Yet, alike in some respects too.

Still, doesn't stop the campaign from being awesome. ;) (purely personal view, and not influenced by being a dev)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2010, 10:12:57 pm
I didn't like Sam as much as Laporte.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 08, 2010, 10:17:11 pm
I didn't like Sam as much as Laporte.

I'm rather torn, there were times where I found Sam to be a somewhat... one dimensional character (Maybe not the best way to put it, but it's 4am!), but generally an overall likeable chap, decent guy. Laporte was a much better written character, but... the viewpoint thing, that and she's vaguely psychopathic.

What really gets me though is
Spoiler:
Why we act as if the Vishnans are good guys. They're meddling bastards who should call off their brothers and stop messing with humanity. What gives them the bloody right? 'Destroy to preserve, you must choose one to survive'. How about we choose to try and reconcile the two peoples, not your arbitrary one or the other choice. The mission with the vasudan logistics  vessel shows that it's possible. God, I really hope the ending to the BP saga has us kicking the arse of the Vishnans Babylon 5 style (If you've watched that series, you'll get what I'm referencing)

Though I know it won't, that's just not even on the cards. It's simply a pipe dream.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 08, 2010, 10:20:48 pm
While we want to be really careful not to spoil anything, we can tell you this

1) We have the whole BP story mapped out from its beginning many billion years ago to the end of BP3. There is a bible with answers to all the mysteries.

2) We remain committed to examining every faction in the story ambiguously, including the Vishnans.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 08, 2010, 10:22:46 pm
While we want to be really careful not to spoil anything, we can tell you this

1) We have the whole BP story mapped out from its beginning many billion years ago to the end of BP3. There is a bible with answers to all the mysteries.

2) We remain committed to examining every faction in the story ambiguously, including the Vishnans.

Oh, I know, I've had private conversations with both you and The_E about the storyline. I know roughly where you going with that whole thing. It's just not exactly where I would take it.

Megaspoilers here guise, this is pretty much for Batts eyes only - actually, I won't post it, if Batts wants to hit me up for what I remember from the conversations on IRC, just PM me :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Hellstryker on August 08, 2010, 10:26:08 pm
[quote author=asyikarea51 link=topic=70746.msg1399971#msg1399971 date=128132210
Okay, maybe not at say, Hellstryker's level of familiarity who has a friend or so he said, but it still hit home to me somewhere.
[/quote]

Wasn't talking about Laporte, I was talking about Simms.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 08, 2010, 10:29:10 pm
 :bump:

it might be good for Another Day.

but sure. i can help. i have a knack for placement and minor details if i am provided with something to go off of, but i would prefer to "be" one of the "new recruits" with a thing for antics and American Patriotism

oh yeah some good quotes:

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/w/winston_churchill.html

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_s_patton.html

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/john_f_kennedy.html

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/ronald_reagan.html

The world is a fine place and worth the fighting for and I hate very much to leave it.
Ernest Hemingway

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
Plato

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
Sun Tzu

Every Soldier worth his salt should be anti-war, but there are some things still worth fighting for.
I forgot

Ride on Shooting star! - you figure it out

edit: wow 7 posts before mine?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 08, 2010, 10:32:45 pm
What the--
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: asyikarea51 on August 08, 2010, 10:37:31 pm
@ Hellstryker

Sorry, I got confused then.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 08, 2010, 10:38:13 pm
FU- BBBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHA HAHAHHEHEHHAAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

did i forget to mention i am insane?

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 08, 2010, 10:39:29 pm
FU- BBBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHA HAHAHHEHEHHAAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

did i forget to mention i am insane?

My dear chap, you didn't need to mention it  :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2010, 10:49:08 pm
I think that's readily apparent. :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Rodo on August 08, 2010, 11:44:34 pm
Ok, now my stupid wingmen went ahead and nuke the Norfolk when I gave them all the order to friggin ignore it, after smacking into me in a retarded series of collisions for the past five minutes and preventing my rearm :/
Thank you for failing the mission for me, worthless bozos.

Gotta do this one again too and pray they don't get any stupid ideas :/

hahaha I can't stop laughting at your bad luck mate, I suffered the same stuff... but I'm well past it so... I'm sorry, it's funny :D

Spoiler:
want a kitty picture for those nerves? :P

Review:

Spoiler:
not sure if this requires a spoiler, but still..

Despite some frikking annoying missions (looking at you Deter....notrememberwhatwascalled Est), the campaign is well done, amazing stuff you got.
I'll be waiting for the next release, until then!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 09, 2010, 12:07:11 am
I don't know what Infamus is on (yet I'm pretty sure I seized some of it when I worked Customs :P) but I've yet to see any evidence of deus ex machina, the story is coherent and well-written, and I'd like to say an enormous THANK YOU to the team for introducing characters whose sexuality is not strictly and obviously heterosexual.  Having a female lead, let alone one who isn't stereotypical, is great.

Also, Laporte is a much better-rounded character than Bei - Bei felt to me like a whiny brat with a daddy complex, which made me want to play AoA as someone else entirely in several of the missions.  I definitely think the backstory, character development, and plot development is much more sophisticated and interesting in WiH.  I do a lot of reading, and the level of writing in this campaign is not pop-culture; it's essentially literary.  That's part of what makes it interesting - much in the same vein as Ransom's campaigns, the dialogue isn't forced and the plot is coherent and polished (which is part of why Sync and Transcend were such a joy to play).  A lot of the community modders suffer from serious over-dramatization and/or underwhelming sophistication in their writing; it's something we tried to avoid when reproducing Warzone (the first time around; I've no idea what Mobius has done recently :P) and you've done it very well here.

To those posting in this thread:   please, if you're going to post a long review of the campaign for the rest of us to read, do us a favour and edit for the following BEFORE posting:
1.  Spelling
2.  Grammar
3.  Paragraphs / Sentence structure
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 09, 2010, 12:21:45 am
Actually the 'daddy complex' that Bei had was what I really loved about the guy, I could relate to it. It felt like I was playing as someone close to myself when I played AoA, which is what made it such a real emotional 'journey' for me.

But that's just how I viewed it. Carry on, gents. :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 12:32:01 am
Actually the 'daddy complex' that Bei had was what I really loved about the guy, I could relate to it. It felt like I was playing as someone close to myself when I played AoA, which is what made it such a real emotional 'journey' for me.

But that's just how I viewed it. Carry on, gents. :P

Well I really relate to Laporte because I have a lot of unresolved issues with how easy it's been for me to kill all these

...

look just PM me about it
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 09, 2010, 02:15:19 am
I think you must've misread my post somewhere...

I'm not making any statement about Laporte or any issues 'getting' her, Battuta.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: [Wolf]Maverick on August 09, 2010, 02:37:32 am
I think the best part of the story was the fact, that WiH showed that there is no good or evil in a civil war. War is pure horror, especially a civil war and even if many of the combatants need a moral excuse to get going, there is really no morale, no code of conduct. The Tevs learned that in the wars against the shivans and NTF and now the Earthlings learn the lesson too.
WiH perfectly shows, that there is no glory in war, only loss, death and despair and for me this is the perfect atmosphere for a campaign / game which deals with an intergalactic civil war.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 09, 2010, 02:48:19 am
I think the best part of the story was the fact, that WiH showed that there is no good or evil in a civil war. War is pure horror, especially a civil war and even if many of the combatants need a moral excuse to get going, there is really no morale, no code of conduct. The Tevs learned that in the wars against the shivans and NTF and now the Earthlings learn the lesson too.
This. :yes:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 03:01:12 am
I think you must've misread my post somewhere...

I'm not making any statement about Laporte or any issues 'getting' her, Battuta.

did they use anesthetic when they removed your sense of humor or did you have to weep and struggle like a tiny baby
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 09, 2010, 03:05:09 am
I love you guys! LOVE LOVE LOVE!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: K.d.R. on August 09, 2010, 04:39:59 am
i played it and i know i don't have any problems on my end, could be a corrupted installation, but this campaign is no where near as good as AoA, its full of bugs from what Ive got.

i have a few gripes with this Ubuntu god character and holy than thou attitude. i don't have tolerance for a religious figure without sounding insulting to what you may or may not believe in.  

the campaign until the Indus was plain boring and starts getting better.
the terrorists and the GTVA admiral, i like them, full or irony. i don't see the treachery or the emotions other see, but it's funny and well constructed, at least from what i can read, to that end i'm not getting any audio feeds, just a comm noise. one of the missions where Simms and you go for a patrol, every time her portrait comes up a momentary grey screen happens,  lucky it didn't happen shortly after or i'm sure i would of been slaughtered otherwise. Then there is the poorly constructed mission around Saturn, i had to restart that numerous times because there is no way i could shoot the beams down with general rank fighters attacking my craft. btw, the difficulty level was set on very easy so that tells you how overpowered that is, but the important thing is i got as far as i could to destroying the target and before the retreat, of course the ships you have to protect is always destroyed because of those beams from that other ship. before that it was a levy hitting one of your ships during it's jump taking both ships out stating i could of prevented it which was total BS.

i'm also getting the same problem everytime with the incoming transmission, the only way around it is to break into the debugger read what it says, press f2 and then esc and continue playing. that is annoying but manageable.

i'm gonna re-download bp2 again and see if i encounter the same problems.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 09, 2010, 04:46:47 am
BP: WiH does not have voice-acting, message beeps are all you're going to get. Voice-acting would take several years to complete.

However, WiH is not full of bugs. Quite the contrary. What bugs there are currently, are very minor. Let me list some of them from top off my head:
- Key-bindings in directives and such do not use player's actual keybindings. Easy fix and will be in the next update.
- Ships are taxing to system resources as they are not optimized for performance. This is very lengthy process and will be addressed slowly, but surely over time.
- Weapons in loadout screen have poor descriptions. This is an oversight because beta-testers never said a word about them.
- Few other very minor mission bugs that do not really affect missions, but will be fixed.

I'm sorry you find the campaign boring and so on, but we already knew that we're not going to please everyone with the direction and design we decided to go with.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: K.d.R. on August 09, 2010, 04:49:08 am
so i got a corrupted installation... great.

i wished these things came as one installation as an optional.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: ssmit132 on August 09, 2010, 04:59:41 am
I'm several missions through now, and I have to say that, even though I'm only part way through, that this is a real masterpiece :)

One thing I did notice, though:
Spoiler:
In the mission where you attack the Meridian, you can order the Vilinus around. I believe that shouldn't happen?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 09, 2010, 05:00:09 am
Oops, haven't noticed that before!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: K.d.R. on August 09, 2010, 05:00:43 am
I'm sorry you find the campaign boring and so on, but we already knew that we're not going to please everyone with the direction and design we decided to go with.

i didn't say i found it ALL boring i said the part before the Indus :).
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 09, 2010, 06:15:19 am
Quote from: General Battuta
Also one of our design goals was to reduce the Alpha 1 Effect. Which I will admit does not always produce player-centric, agentic gameplay, which is a problem we worried about a lot during development.
Well you succeeded quite well there. WiH really made me feel like 'just a small cog in a bigger warmachine' which worked with the story telling approach.  :nod:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: OllieG on August 09, 2010, 07:37:23 am
This is an absolutely wonderful mod, one of the best narrative gaming experiences I've ever had - music, writing and story all very much on point. 

That said, I don't think I've been able to fully enjoy the experience because of the hardware requirements - certain ships (frigates mostly, but also some of the UEF fighters I think, it's hard to tell exactly) cause such a serious framerate drop that it makes the relatively difficult missions more or less impossible.  Having to turn the graphics all the way down seriously degrades the game play quality and some sections STILL slow down so much they're unplayable.  Now, I'm playing on a Macbook Pro so some of this is my fault (if I had a better computer this wouldn't be a problem I think), but I don't want to have to reduce the graphics to Tetris levels in order to pass each mission - especially missions so cinematic and grand in scope that they really demand drinking in ever detail. 

I don't know what people are worried about with the weapons btw, nailing a wing of Herc IIs with a slammer and watching all four go down in flames is awesome, and splashing an incoming bomber with a single huge burst from that kinetic weapon brought a huge smile to my face.  I just wish I could get targets in my sights with the framerate.

Spoiler:
I know people want to see big capital ship fights, but the two skirmish missions (the fight with the SOC wing and the dialogue mission where the raiders jump you) were some of the best in my opinion - they really personalized everyone involved, even the enemy pilots, and ratcheted up the emotional impact of the bigger battles where people were dying left and right.  There was more of a feeling of the "day to day" of this type of war.  I can't believe you made me kill Xinny and Zero, that was just...nasty.  Xinny's sign off line was especially heart-wrenching, not exactly sure why.  I did think it was great how their deaths corresponded to the fluff about the best GTVA pilots dying in their heavy fighters - both of them bought it because they couldn't turn fast enough and that long profile is a perfect target for dumbfires and guns.

If this campaign was voice acted and a little more polished you could put it in a box and sell it.  I'd buy.  I know it's a vast amount of dialogue and I'm not complaining.  Thanks for all your hard work!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Gloriano on August 09, 2010, 08:17:00 am
Fantastic job guys really enjoyed the War in Heaven, missions were neat and everything else too. I just hope we don't need to wait the release 2 for 2 years  :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Inglonias on August 09, 2010, 09:09:36 am
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
Spoiler:
I like how you actually had an event and debriefing for actually destroying the Carthage! Mr Cuddles was definitely challenging! (Not really, I cheated after I beat the campaign) Someone actually manage to destroy the Carthage and beat Mr Cuddles without cheating! There's a damn challenge!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 09, 2010, 09:34:21 am
Oh, finally.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 09, 2010, 10:03:33 am
Oh my f***. Blue planet massive battle. 2 fps.

Btw, I noticed in detail settings I had certain categories with a setting of 0 dots and 1 green gloved pointing hand. I'm assuming this means custom settings. I have no idea how to restore them, since I accidentally overwrote them with standard "dots" settings.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 09, 2010, 10:21:56 am
The Darkest Hour
Spoiler:
“I'm sorry Admiral, we did our best, but the Feds are putting up a fiercer fight than we expected. Drink one to us when you take Ea-” The video feed cuts out in a burst of static, and the bridge lapses into silence, broken only by a Comm officer who clears his throat nervously before breaking the hush.

“Omega code received, Admiral. We lost the Valerie.”

The tall man remains standing, staring at the blank screen on his console, his blue eyes unfathomable and hard beneath his steel grey hair as he absently nods an acknowledgement at the officer.

With a sudden jerk, he turns his head towards the Helm, “Helm, prepare to execute a jump to Rheza station's orbital slot, maybe we can turn the tide there.”

“Aye Aye sir,” the Sailing Master replies, preparing to execute the subspace jump with a professional ease complimented by a feverish intensity, a desire not to let down this implacable officer, more like a force of nature than a flag officer of the GTVA.

Admiral Steele glances at his plot again, a small, grim smile touching his lips.

Just something I wrote whilst eating my lunch, I haven't really checked it over all that much, so there are no doubt grammatical errors all over the place.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 09, 2010, 10:37:49 am
Minor note: Steele is actually a bald black leader guy. At least in our minds.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 09, 2010, 11:03:20 am
Samuel L. Jackson? ;)

Or maybe Morgan Freeman?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: starwolf1991 on August 09, 2010, 11:10:59 am
Darius and Blue Planet Team, may I offer my congratulations for this stunning masterpiece you have created. Masterpiece is prehaps the best word I can use to describe War In Heaven Part 1. :yes:

I swear I shed a tear at the end when.....well, you know what happened, it was soooo sad!. And another when the closing piece of music started to kick in.

Already looking forward to part 2. Can't wait!  :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 09, 2010, 11:15:11 am
Minor note: Steele is actually a bald black leader guy. At least in our minds.

Ah well, that's how I pictured him. Asian-Caucasian parentage, perhaps. Though a Bald black guy would also work.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 09, 2010, 11:16:52 am
Then there is the poorly constructed mission around Saturn, i had to restart that numerous times because there is no way i could shoot the beams down with general rank fighters attacking my craft. btw, the difficulty level was set on very easy so that tells you how overpowered that is, but the important thing is i got as far as i could to destroying the target and before the retreat, of course the ships you have to protect is always destroyed because of those beams from that other ship. before that it was a levy hitting one of your ships during it's jump taking both ships out stating i could of prevented it which was total BS.

sounds like my bug is popping up elsewhere :/
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 09, 2010, 11:25:58 am
Minor note: Steele is actually a bald black leader guy. At least in our minds.
That's one thing I noticed in WiH, little to no description on what characters look like. I only recall reading that simms has blond hair. But that's about it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 09, 2010, 11:27:05 am
Yeah, we wanted to supply pictures with the intel entries, but they're not done yet.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 09, 2010, 12:02:27 pm
Here's a thing - will we ever see the "First Battle of Neptune" single mission? Be nice to play the GTVA, even if just for a single mission.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 09, 2010, 12:04:59 pm
I guess we will. I think Dilmah just has to go through it once more to make sure it works with the modpack as it is right now.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 09, 2010, 12:10:24 pm
I guess we will. I think Dilmah just has to go through it once more to make sure it works with the modpack as it is right now.

Yayifications!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 12:12:41 pm
The Darkest Hour
Spoiler:
“I'm sorry Admiral, we did our best, but the Feds are putting up a fiercer fight than we expected. Drink one to us when you take Ea-” The video feed cuts out in a burst of static, and the bridge lapses into silence, broken only by a Comm officer who clears his throat nervously before breaking the hush.

“Omega code received, Admiral. We lost the Valerie.”

The tall man remains standing, staring at the blank screen on his console, his blue eyes unfathomable and hard beneath his steel grey hair as he absently nods an acknowledgement at the officer.

With a sudden jerk, he turns his head towards the Helm, “Helm, prepare to execute a jump to Rheza station's orbital slot, maybe we can turn the tide there.”

“Aye Aye sir,” the Sailing Master replies, preparing to execute the subspace jump with a professional ease complimented by a feverish intensity, a desire not to let down this implacable officer, more like a force of nature than a flag officer of the GTVA.

Admiral Steele glances at his plot again, a small, grim smile touching his lips.

Just something I wrote whilst eating my lunch, I haven't really checked it over all that much, so there are no doubt grammatical errors all over the place.

 :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: 23-down on August 09, 2010, 12:14:27 pm
Ok first I really wanna thank you for this amazing campaign or mod....

You guys are truly FS moddings best... I just played it through and every mission was really intence and hard!!!
Here and there I really had to use cheats for example in the mission where you started near an enemy flak frigate
To be forced to use cheats is pitty. Same situation like in 1 of the last missions with the Santanas in BP1.

The only things I could criticize here is the poor english.. I'm no native english speaker myself but I've found 100 of spelling errors - words on the wrong place (grammar issues maybe?) and that did it really hard for me to follow the entire story. I didn't had such problems with Blue Planet 1. Please recheck all briefings etc. For me many things seemed wrong. But maybe it's just me who's wrong. Maybe everything is just written in a strange english dialect I can't tell.

I also highly recommend to add voice acting inside the missions. Because I guess I just missed 75% of the radio signals.

A. They vanshied a lot to fast due to new signals.
B. During combat it's really hard to read and fight. I often had to press esc to read the more important things in peace.


Could someone tell me the exact story of this mod right here in spoilers? I really had big problems to unsterstand the plot. Normally I don't have such problems at all I can read english very good. But everything in this mod was really hard described like Oxford English. Or it was due to the fact that there were many issues like I said above. What is that with this Ubunto thing anyway? Space exploring people are some religious fanatics?

Another critical aspect:
Do you think that this campaign is realistic. (besides the fact that it is science fiction of course.)
I mean one Solar System against the entire GTVA and it's systems or at least the Terrans? Such a thing is unwinnable. Letting Earth Forces win the war in the following part2 of the campaign would be a disaster. Technically it's impossible. They lack in manpower, in ships, in supplies and most of the Sol fleets has allready been destroyed etc.

And like you mentioned it allready some models still require some work with their lods etc.. I have a high end computer , quad core good graphics card etc and yet it still lagged horrible sometimes. But I also had the advanced.vp enabled maybe without it.. It wouldn't have lagged not sure.

All in all it was still great playing it and I'm looking forward to play part2 when it's done.
Ps: I would love to see more of the ships we had in BP1. If I recall correct you didn't showed all of them in this campaign.

23-down
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 09, 2010, 12:21:41 pm
The Darkest Hour
Spoiler:
“I'm sorry Admiral, we did our best, but the Feds are putting up a fiercer fight than we expected. Drink one to us when you take Ea-” The video feed cuts out in a burst of static, and the bridge lapses into silence, broken only by a Comm officer who clears his throat nervously before breaking the hush.

“Omega code received, Admiral. We lost the Valerie.”

The tall man remains standing, staring at the blank screen on his console, his blue eyes unfathomable and hard beneath his steel grey hair as he absently nods an acknowledgement at the officer.

With a sudden jerk, he turns his head towards the Helm, “Helm, prepare to execute a jump to Rheza station's orbital slot, maybe we can turn the tide there.”

“Aye Aye sir,” the Sailing Master replies, preparing to execute the subspace jump with a professional ease complimented by a feverish intensity, a desire not to let down this implacable officer, more like a force of nature than a flag officer of the GTVA.

Admiral Steele glances at his plot again, a small, grim smile touching his lips.

Just something I wrote whilst eating my lunch, I haven't really checked it over all that much, so there are no doubt grammatical errors all over the place.

 :yes: :yes: :yes:


Thanks Battuta :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 09, 2010, 12:24:34 pm
Ok first I really wanna thank you for this amazing campaign or mod....

You guys are truly FS moddings best... I just played it through and every mission was really intence and hard!!!
Here and there I really had to use cheats for example in the mission where you started near an enemy flak frigate
To be forced to use cheats is pitty. Same situation like in 1 of the last missions with the Santanas in BP1.

All missions are doable, even on insane, without using cheats.

Quote
The only things I could criticize here is the poor english.. I'm no native english speaker myself but I've found 100 of spelling errors - words on the wrong place (grammar issues maybe?) and that did it really hard for me to follow the entire story. I didn't had such problems with Blue Planet 1. Please recheck all briefings etc. For me many things seemed wrong. But maybe it's just me who's wrong. Maybe everything is just written in a strange english dialect I can't tell.

Could you elaborate on this with a few examples? Most of the team (including the head writers) are native speakers, and the rest of us has a pretty firm grasp of the english language (and failing that, our spell checkers), so any instance of these errors should be corrected.
Be aware, however, that we're using pilot slang quite heavily in a few places, and what may seem like an error can actually be intentional, just to emulate the way real combat pilots speak.

Quote
I also highly recommend to add voice acting inside the missions. Because I guess I just missed 75% of the radio signals.

A. They vanshied a lot to fast due to new signals.
B. During combat it's really hard to read and fight. I often had to press esc to read the more important things in peace.

We know. However, we were unwilling to delay the release for another year or so to get the voice acting done.

Quote
Could someone tell me the exact story of this mod right here in spoilers? I really had big problems to unsterstand the plot. Normally I don't have such problems at all I can read english very good. But everything in this mod was really hard described like Oxford English. Or it was due to the fact that there were many issues like I said above. What is that with this Ubunto thing anyway? Space exploring people are some religious fanatics?

There is a lot of backstory you probably missed found in the Techroom, I recommend you read that.

Quote
Another critical asspect:
Do you think that this campaign is realistic. (besides the fact that it is science fiction of course.)
I mean one Solar System against the entire GTVA and it's systems or at least the Terrans? Such a thing is unwinnable. Letting Earth Forces win the war in the following part2 of the campaign would be disaster. Technically it's impossible. They lack in manpower, in ships, in supplies and most of the Sol fleets has allready been destroyed etc.

In the BP universe, Earth and the colonies on Mars and Jupiter have about the same population as the entire GTVA combined. They also have the most extensive, most advanced infrastructure in known space. So yes, they do have a fighting chance.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 12:25:44 pm
Ok first I really wanna thank you for this amazing campaign or mod....

Thank you!

Quote
The only things I could criticize here is the poor english.. I'm no native english speaker myself but I've found 100 of spelling errors - words on the wrong place (grammar issues maybe?)

Could you please pick them out? I think the problem may be that War in Heaven is written at a pretty high level. It's not very non-native-speaker friendly.

Quote
Another critical aspect:
Do you think that this campaign is realistic. (besides the fact that it is science fiction of course.)
I mean one Solar System against the entire GTVA and it's systems or at least the Terrans? Such a thing is unwinnable. Letting Earth Forces win the war in the following part2 of the campaign would be a disaster. Technically it's impossible. They lack in manpower, in ships, in supplies and most of the Sol fleets has allready been destroyed etc.

Actually, in FreeSpace Earth has a bigger industrial and population base than most (or all) of the rest of the human worlds combined. That doesn't necessarily translate into military success, though.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: 23-down on August 09, 2010, 12:31:15 pm
Allright then...

Then it's my poor understanding of english I suppose. It's still odd I never experienced such problems anywhere before.
However I really spotted some spelling issues here and there. I can't tell you right now where.. But in some briefings you mistyped words..

To give an unrelated example: The word "Birds" and you guys wrote "virbs".. Sometimes you mistyped letters twice in a word. Should I find these little issues again I will post them here.

I will check the Tech room right away.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 12:32:20 pm
Allright then...

Then it's my poor understanding of english I suppose. It's still odd I never experienced such problems anywhere before.
However I really spotted some spelling issues here and there. I can't tell you right now where.. But in some briefings you mistyped words..

To give an unrelated example: The word "Birds" and you guys wrote "virbs".. Sometimes you mistyped letters twice in a word. Should I find these little issues again I will post them here.

I will check the Tech room right away.

Whoa...that sounds really weird. Yeah, please let us know if you see things like that, as they could be indicators of some kind of technical problem.

Though just fyi, 'materiel' is a correct spelling.

I'm several missions through now, and I have to say that, even though I'm only part way through, that this is a real masterpiece :)

One thing I did notice, though:
Spoiler:
In the mission where you attack the Meridian, you can order the Vilinus around. I believe that shouldn't happen?

fix'd'd'd
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: ZeroCooL on August 09, 2010, 12:41:50 pm
Hi I have a problem when I start the game telling me I have 705 errors also, when he started the mission and the game will let me on the desktop I missing something?

thanks
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 09, 2010, 12:41:59 pm
That was ****ing awesome!

However I noticed in one place that a mission objective was "Mission Goal Text"... although I don't remember which mission. That, and in one of the missions with dialog choices there was a moment where I was supposed to choose whether to engage or not, and no prompt telling me which numbers to press to do what. Ultimately I pressed 2 and it did what I wanted, though... not attacking.

What was the model for that derelict space station? It looked kind of like one of the Luna City models, but I couldn't tell because of the lighting.

Also,
Spoiler:
I eagerly await the opportunity to kick that Steele fellow's ass for what he did with the Vasudans... even though we've yet to face hostile Vasudans in the campaign. One way or another, that sonnova***** is gonna pay.  :mad:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 12:45:11 pm
Hi I have a problem when I start the game telling me I have 705 errors also, when he started the mission and the game will let me on the desktop I missing something?

thanks

Go to the installation thread and make sure you've followed all the instructions there.

If that doesn't work, please generate and post a debug log. If you don't know how, see the troubleshooting forum.

Don't worry, we'll have it sorted out in a jiffy.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 09, 2010, 12:45:25 pm
Quote
However I noticed in one place that a mission objective was "Mission Goal Text"... although I don't remember which mission. That, and in one of the missions with dialog choices there was a moment where I was supposed to choose whether to engage or not, and no prompt telling me which numbers to press to do what. Ultimately I pressed 2 and it did what I wanted, though... not attacking.

I can confirm the first one, since I saw it too, but can't remember the mission either.

As for the second, it's not a keyprompt.  Do what you feel like.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 09, 2010, 01:18:39 pm
Spoiler:
I eagerly await the opportunity to kick that Steele fellow's ass for what he did with the Vasudans... even though we've yet to face hostile Vasudans in the campaign. One way or another, that sonnova***** is gonna pay.  :mad:
He already anticipated you would react that way and has the perfect plan ready to deal with you.
Just as planned etc  :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: ION3 on August 09, 2010, 01:19:55 pm
Spoiler:
In the capship mission the turret selection by arrow keyes doesn't work for me. Pressing them nothing happens. Did I miss something or do you want the log?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 09, 2010, 01:29:13 pm
I never gave a review on "The Blade Itself"

The mission title is well put and the ship controls where well played, but the turret controls were lacking

1) as you may have noticed there is no way to tell your turrets to hold-fire, please add that. and also I see no difference between the Lock and Track modes: please explain.
2) instead having all of the guns automated, give the player direct control - as well as automated; make the mode selectable - over the main guns and missiles, to make it easier to hit something like a subsystem
*add 'semi-tracking' for manual guns, this should let the gun fire like a turret, but not being automated (Semi-tracking is a forward gun's ability to angle the shot slightly to lead a target or hit it from a angle with out actually facing it, even though you are using a forward pointing weapon), I don't think this has ever been done, however.
*it may seem stupid but it can be useful, and fun, then again it is hard enough to see what is going on
*OH! IDEA! this may take some time, but make it to where objects that you cannot see because of your ship's obscuring your view are highlighted in the appropriately colored wire-frame, to make things easier to see, and of course this is only for large ships.

oh, one last thing! fighter 3D cockpits please! (don't forget to make the Physical HUD transparent and remove the textures so its just a peice of Transparent-Aluminum unless your are IN cockpit view. yeah, the last mod i played with those, their textures where improperly coded but i can expect your to be much better.

if you guize can get the cap ship control out of beta, just think what could happen: AWESOME ;7

Spoiler:
who are Xinny and zero?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SomeGuyWithAName on August 09, 2010, 01:30:38 pm
So, I've been lurking these forums for... well actually years now... and finally WiH has put me over the edge and made me make an account, because I can't let this slide without reviewing it.

Genius, pure genius. To me personally, this is the best expansion of Freespace lore. Other takes on it are also good, often brilliant, but the Blue Planet take so far manages to balance out the pseudo-mysticism V built up around the Shivans with some ground-in-reality concepts, diluting it with wonderful pseudo-science and all makes sense so far.

To the campaign at hand:

Spoiler:
Story & overall feel:

Laporte was the most identifiable character of any campaign I played so far. This may not work for others as I have read already, but to me, her character arc was one I could relate to. The athmosphere and feel of the campaign together with sympathetic and believable characters like her and Simms (and also Steele in a way) made me so emotionally attached to everything, like works of fiction only seldom do.

When it comes to the battle of ideologies that seems to be raging even in these forums, I definetely side with the UEF more than with the GTVA - perhaps that also played a huge role in why I could really feel frustration and anger on every freighter lost, every capship sacrificed - and satisfaction for every little success.

While the Alpha 1 feel has been diluted, I never felt like a useless pawn, and the transcendant connection to the Shivans (I guess, I don't think those were the Vishnans talking with all the 'destroy to preserve' stuff) made me feel important and "chosen-oneish" enough. Rather than useless I felt like a necessary part of the greater machinery.

Talking of machinery, this campaign/mod - again more than many contemporary works of fiction - manages to show the harsh reality of war. In the way a work of fiction should - as an epic storyline of characters changing due to the influence of war. It shows that in war there is no moral high ground, there is no real glory, and you can't fight a war and still stick to morality. By that, not the GTVA nor the UEF are "evil", they just act by the necessities of war.

The focus on "real" strategy and plotting inside a war was a good thing to me. I was never too much a fan of the Alpha-1 "you will turn everything around single-handedly" feel. After all, there was a bit of that in here, too, in just the right dosage for my taste.

Steele is of course both awesome as a strategist, yet I personally was also compelled to hate him enough to reasonably put him into the "villain" category. Mainly the masterplan to alinate the Vasudans from the UEF made me both shake my fist at him and yet admire his grand scheme. His final trap was so masterfully implemented that I truly felt crushed. Defeated by myself more or less for even having the hope to maybe achieve a major victory against the GTVA there.

The use of music above all was perhaps what made this an "action-packed-thrillride" to quote every movie description ever made, yet this mod deserves it.

Gameplay -

Holy crap, this was hard... I played on medium, and I quickly realized that even a small mistake can cost you your life. Let a fighter behind you and one salvo can be enough to critically damage or sometimes even kill you. Dogfights are intense, and finally capships felt like they should feel (IMO) - a reasonable threat to fighters, instead of the sitting ducks I remember from retail.

The final mission took me forever, 20+ tries, and after 10+ I tuned down to easy and later even very easy. Especially frustrating to me was that I finally finished it once, came to the point where the tag appeared on your Beamblocker ship, and I accidentally was exactly in the line of fire of the green beam. The main reason it took so long though were performance issues. Dogfighting becomes very tedious when framerates drop and lag makes your aim nearly uncontrollable. Also I am curious on when exactly the beam overload event kicks in. Sometimes I managed to kill off every fighter of the last wave before it triggered, and sometimes it triggered almost immediately after they launched. Also the timing on when the second attack group warps in seemed a little sketchy/random to me at times - but never clearly broken like it happened elsewhere.

Besides that, the many fresh elements, dialogue choices, the customizable strike team against the corvette in one mission, the hostage situation, made clear this certainly wasn't just another FS2 campaign. All those options are also another reason I can't share the "you feel powerless to influence the outcome of missions" some seem to have got.

Besides the last mission, none felt frustrating enough for me to consider cheating, and I wouldn't call myself a very good pilot. But then again, I haven't had a chance to compare yet, as all my friends I tried bringing to FS2 were completely overwhelmed by the controls, as they were used to Freelancer as their only space game I guess.

Overall, I think this is better than most commercial games when it comes to mission design, story and characters. It has some minor flaws - performance issues and some bugs that are already being polished from what I got, so - kudos to you. To me you are awesome in many ways, including proving (again) that modders and hobbyists with a passion can sometimes even surpass standards set by the mainstream gaming industry.

Overall, better than AoA, better than everything else I played so far. To me it lived up to the hype.

Hm, pardon some minor language quirks that may appear above, I'm no native speaker, and my english tends to be over-stylized and complicated from what I'm being told, because I learned it mostly from literature and RPGs, later the internet, and not actual spoken english.

BTW: I hope this will eventually be VA'd, although I understand that this seems like an almost impossible task. It would just be a shame if it were never VA'd at all, as it would so greatly improve the game.

And I can't await Part 2.
Spoiler:
Damn those cliffhanger endings, especially when they mention AoA characters as possible major characters in part 2
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 09, 2010, 01:32:09 pm
who are Xinny and zero?

The pilots you fought in that one mission where some rogue GTVA pilots were trying to capture a transport.

Also, Alpha 3 and 4 in Into the Lion's Den.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 01:35:00 pm
*SNIP*

Hooray! Thank you so much.

And your English is great, no worries.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Vip on August 09, 2010, 01:37:00 pm
Okay, that was awesome. Congrats to the Dev team for creating such a wonderful campaign. I know you've heard it before, but you've made my day.

Great story, great gameplay. Finally, I see some tactics being used, it's probably the first campaign in which, instead of swearing at capship behaviour, I praise it.

Also,
Spoiler:
HOLY **** WHEN DID FS2 GET INTERACTIVE DIALOGUES AND CHECKPOINTS ?! I WTFed hard at this at first, but loved it. cRPG elements in a space sim ? Hell yeah. Checkpoints, while they are a nice idea, are a bit borked. It only activates during the first playthrough, and usually my hull is at like 20% at this point (I almost always fail hard at first playthroughs :P) and I have to restart anyway :P

Oh, and too much text. Chatter during battles should be short, think about the poor players who have to hit F4 every minute or so to learn what's going on...

Spoiler:
Great job with creating atmosphere during all those missions. Losing both the frigates in Collateral Damage left me really angry. And then next mission you kick the Meridian's arse and I felt good, even though I support the GTVA.

Then I felt creeped out during this whole psychologist eval; seeing the anxiety and NGRI spike so high made me shiver. And the messages in those containers plus the comm node... I sense actions of epic proportions in the next Act !

The Darkest Hour was very chaotic, as it's supposed to be. No time to mess around and wonder what's going on, you just shot down bombs and bombers like mad and hope that the station will hold. I barely made it and felt proud that the station was still standing at the end.

And then comes What Binds Us. I really, really, really hoped that there would be something good coming from this war. A single act of cooperation. Then that frigate jumps in, and starts blowing the hell out of the Deimos while I'm trying to shout "WAIT YOU STUPID SONOFA...". Got me all emotional.

And finally Delenda Est. Really, it was going so well (though I did play this one and the previous mission on Very Easy). I really believed the Carthage was ours. And then that Tev destroyer appeared and crushed my hope.  Damn you, BP Team, for making me feel that way. Hell, you made me sympathise with the Feds, even though I began this campaign as a GTVA supporter.

Also, damn you for those cliffhangers !!! Almost like watching Battlestar Galactica again :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 09, 2010, 01:38:19 pm
who are Xinny and zero?

Also, Alpha 3 and 4 in Into the Lion's Den.

THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT but then I figured they should be dead from old age by then.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 01:40:56 pm
Checkpoints, while they are a nice idea, are a bit borked. It only activates during the first playthrough, and usually my hull is at like 20% at this point (I almost always fail hard at first playthroughs :P) and I have to restart anyway :P[/spoiler]

Thank you for the review!

On the checkpoints issue - you're only notified of the checkpoint activation on your first playthrough, but you should be told that the checkpoint is available every time you restart the mission. Is this not happening? (It should occur on m10, m14 and m15; m01 is currently borked.)

Or are you saying that your later playthroughs didn't get stored when you reached the checkpoint again? Because they should be.

(BTW you can repair your hull with the support ship.)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Madcat on August 09, 2010, 01:45:54 pm
First of all, a big THANK YOU to the whole team for all the effort you put into this!

I've finished my first playthrough today and it has been an amazing experience. I think that WiH really achieved a new level of quality for a mod: storytelling, immersion, graphics, music, sounds... it all just hit home for me.
I loved the attention to detail in all the tactical and strategical developments in the theatre, there must have been alot of thought put into it and it shows in the quality.
Had to change my playing style somewhat too, because I couldn't just go all merry banzai on a capship to take out some turrets on a whim, as the antifighter screen was quickly ripping me apart. So I had to learn to follow orders more closely (like, being told to stay away from them! :D ). Capships finally are REALLY scary things.

To the story and other stuff:
Spoiler:
I'm definitely not the most critical guy when it comes to characters and character development.
I noticed I could identify quite well with Laporte from the beginning, mainly as soon as she noticed that she actually likes to kill... as that's pretty much me in front of the computer while playing.  ;)
Fly around, kill stuff, try to complete the objectives and don't worry to much about shooting my own kind.
I have to say I bothed the Vasudan help mission on the first try, because when the Corvette arrived with the fighters, I was very close to them when they appeared and had no restraints to open fire... things got pretty ugly in the debriefing.  :P

I liked the parts where there are dialogue choices.
Am I the only one to call out the Gefs on the bluff and not take a hostage in the mission with the Nauticus? Seems to me like most others took that route...

Loved the part where you call in the strike package, it really felt like "WTF how do I operate this comm unit, never done it before, damnit the Corvette's closing in where's the entry with the heavy hitters ARGH!". Total immersion right there.

The overall story was outstanding in my opinion, and sometimes really had a gut-wrenching impact on me whenever we lost a ship, or what seemed to be a victory got turned around in a bad way. So, contrary to my above statement about usually flying around and having fun killing stuff, WiH really managed to showcase that war is not fun at all. Great job!

The graphics are amazing now, Freespace has never looked better... especially capship explosions are magnificient. I think that just now they finally look like they really should. Even from 8 clicks away the red flash shows that something really, really bad just happened.

I am happy to say that I didn't notice too many bugs and got through the missions quite well on Easy; which I always play on, so IMO the missions in WiH are balanced quite nicely. I actually got through Delenda Est on the first try. But that was one hell of a ride, and here again the armor repairing support ship has saved my life.
I got the problem with Gamma Wing circling around me and colliding with me all the time in the mission with the Norfolk, which was a slight nuisance as I couldn't select them in the comm menu and tell them to **** off when I wanted to rearm.  ;) But at least they didn't kill the Norfolk...

Yes, I had to press F4 many a time to catch up on the messages. No way around it when playing a mission for the first time.

The reverse thrust is a great idea, but I couldn't use it much because to press Z and the afterburner button on my joystick at the same time I need to let go of the stick. But one time it helped to get a fighter off my six and into my crosshairs... great fun!

All in all, definitely the best and most polished campaign I've played so far. Easily surpasses many commercial game releases... I've said it before, you guys rule beyond description!

Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Vip on August 09, 2010, 01:46:32 pm
Checkpoints, while they are a nice idea, are a bit borked. It only activates during the first playthrough, and usually my hull is at like 20% at this point (I almost always fail hard at first playthroughs :P) and I have to restart anyway :P[/spoiler]

Thank you for the review!

On the checkpoints issue - you're only notified of the checkpoint activation on your first playthrough, but you should be told that the checkpoint is available every time you restart the mission. Is this not happening? (It should occur on m10, m14 and m15; m01 is currently borked.)

Or are you saying that your later playthroughs didn't get stored when you reached the checkpoint again? Because they should be.

(BTW you can repair your hull with the support ship.)

I used the checkpoints in Missions 1 and 14. In both, it always reverted me to the first checkpoint ever made. So even though in Mission 14 I managed to disable the Deimos with 100% hull intact, only to get my PC crash due to overheating/performance issue (really, I'm looking forward to your assets being optimised, they are literally killing my PC. Then again, I'm playing at 1920x1080 with all details maxed :P). Each time I tried the checkpoint, I had 37% hull, like in the first playthrough of this mission.

Also, support ships repairing hull ? That didn't happen in any mission, and I did use the support ship whenever I could.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 09, 2010, 02:01:35 pm
@Vip, yes Support craft heal your ship to about 68/69% which is great, and you can do this UNLIMITED TIMES

@General Battuta, dude i had problems with the support ships, sometimes if i call them over they won't come; they confirm your order, the wait box says: "Busy" and then it disapears and the comm-box acts like I already called support, but this is not a major problem, getting the first one to leave and then calling another one fixes it.

Oh and if the the Feds have reverse ships, make some/all/new Tev ships have reverse thrust as well, oh and make them a bit tougher in the armor and maneuverability department, the USP Talon/Fang looking ship has no maneuverability yet it is an interceptor. (Heavy Fighter?) also the Nyx needs a tad more armor, just enough to make it heavy-fig worthy, not like a HercII or something like that but enough.

Edit: something to note, the graphics lag seems to be coming from the Centrifuges on the Frigates and stuff, oh and that is even at lowest possible graphics running at 1024x768x32 on a 512mb ddr2 ATI Radon X1650 and with a 2.6 core 2 duo overclocked at 2.74
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 09, 2010, 02:13:28 pm
I noticed that when flying the Nyx, the support ship didn't repaired my hull. I take it this was intentional? (Finished that mission with 1% hull :p )
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Madcat on August 09, 2010, 02:16:57 pm
I noticed that when flying the Nyx, the support ship didn't repaired my hull. I take it this was intentional? (Finished that mission with 1% hull :p )

I believe I remember reading somewhere that only the Fed ships have that kind of modular (?) armor which can be repaired by the support ship. So that should be correct.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 02:17:40 pm
Checkpoints, while they are a nice idea, are a bit borked. It only activates during the first playthrough, and usually my hull is at like 20% at this point (I almost always fail hard at first playthroughs :P) and I have to restart anyway :P[/spoiler]

Thank you for the review!

On the checkpoints issue - you're only notified of the checkpoint activation on your first playthrough, but you should be told that the checkpoint is available every time you restart the mission. Is this not happening? (It should occur on m10, m14 and m15; m01 is currently borked.)

Or are you saying that your later playthroughs didn't get stored when you reached the checkpoint again? Because they should be.

(BTW you can repair your hull with the support ship.)

I used the checkpoints in Missions 1 and 14. In both, it always reverted me to the first checkpoint ever made. So even though in Mission 14 I managed to disable the Deimos with 100% hull intact, only to get my PC crash due to overheating/performance issue (really, I'm looking forward to your assets being optimised, they are literally killing my PC. Then again, I'm playing at 1920x1080 with all details maxed :P). Each time I tried the checkpoint, I had 37% hull, like in the first playthrough of this mission.

Also, support ships repairing hull ? That didn't happen in any mission, and I did use the support ship whenever I could.

I'll check out the m14 checkpoint, it was inadequately tested. Could you post a debug log?
I noticed that when flying the Nyx, the support ship didn't repaired my hull. I take it this was intentional? (Finished that mission with 1% hull :p )

Yes.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 09, 2010, 02:31:05 pm
Right *****es, it's half eight at night... I'm not in a pub, or with a woman. I'm in a freakin net cafe and have spent an hour and a half downloading this thing and it's pre-requisites....




I'm gonna be late home and this had better be worth it :p

I had to pay £3 for the honour too  :mad:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Vip on August 09, 2010, 02:34:46 pm

I'll check out the m14 checkpoint, it was inadequately tested. Could you post a debug log?


Does it have to be from the campaign, or can it be from the simulator as well ? Though I tried in the simulator, and it didn't have any checkpoints at all. And that mission crashed on me, once again. Too action heavy plus it's too freaking hot in this room, I should play such things in winter :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 02:49:59 pm

I'll check out the m14 checkpoint, it was inadequately tested. Could you post a debug log?


Does it have to be from the campaign, or can it be from the simulator as well ? Though I tried in the simulator, and it didn't have any checkpoints at all. And that mission crashed on me, once again. Too action heavy plus it's too freaking hot in this room, I should play such things in winter :P

Doesn't even have to be the mission - just boot up FS2 with War in Heaven selected. I just want to look at your install config.

Checkpoints won't work in the simulator.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 09, 2010, 02:52:33 pm
@General Battuta Incompatible is the right word man.

@Vip I was using a UEF ship, sry man
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Mobius on August 09, 2010, 03:07:27 pm
Code: [Select]
sounds.tbl(line 341:
Error: Missing required token: [#Flyby Sounds End]. Found [$UEF: 0 T_flyby1.wav, 0, 0.75, ]  instead.

<no module>! KiFastSystemCallRet
<no module>! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>

How did this occur? I was pretty sure I followed all instructions carefully... :wtf:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 09, 2010, 03:10:25 pm
Make sure all of your folders are "<main mod folder> --> files", not "<main mod folder> --> <folder of same name> --> files"
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Vip on August 09, 2010, 03:15:48 pm
Code: [Select]
==========================================================================
DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning
categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved.
==========================================================================
FreeSpace version: 3.6.12
Passed cmdline options:
  -spec_exp 11
  -fov .39
  -ogl_spec 80
  -spec_static .8
  -spec_point .6
  -spec_tube .4
  -ambient_factor 25
  -env
  -mipmap
  -missile_lighting
  -glow
  -spec
  -no_emissive_light
  -normal
  -3dshockwave
  -dualscanlines
  -orbradar
  -rearm_timer
  -targetinfo
  -3dwarp
  -ship_choice_3d
  -weapon_choice_3d
  -warp_flash
  -mod blueplanet2,blueplanet,mediavps_3612
Building file index...
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x2fa0cebd
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0x60465ead
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x2a530d55
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x5d4c1bfb
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x8fea63ef
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x1541da12
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0xcc452f9d
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' with a checksum of 0x060bee91
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' with a checksum of 0xe2219ccf
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x7e75407b
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x44c7e8dd
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Advanced.vp' with a checksum of 0x4b8b0f5a
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_AnimGlows.vp' with a checksum of 0x6a554026
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Assets.vp' with a checksum of 0x529cc70f
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Effects.vp' with a checksum of 0xb9a9a485
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Music.vp' with a checksum of 0xb3e21469
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_RadarIcons.vp' with a checksum of 0x31dd7781
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Root.vp' with a checksum of 0x6ffd5c78
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\Root_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xce10d76c
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\smarty_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xddeb3b1e
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x164fe65a
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xa11d56f1
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\stu_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd77da83a
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango1_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x4c25221e
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango2_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x86920b82
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango3_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x705e8d71
Found root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\warble_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd85c305d
Searching root 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\' ... 1 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' ... 23 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' ... 154 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' ... 61 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' ... 660 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' ... 1976 files
Searching root 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\' ... 1 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' ... 403 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' ... 41 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' ... 685 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' ... 46 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' ... 400 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' ... 1488 files
Searching root 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\' ... 0 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Advanced.vp' ... 1283 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_AnimGlows.vp' ... 1641 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Assets.vp' ... 1905 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Effects.vp' ... 1892 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Music.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_RadarIcons.vp' ... 24 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Root.vp' ... 358 files
Searching root 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\' ... 17 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\Root_fs2.vp' ... 157 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\smarty_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_fs2.vp' ... 3027 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' ... 1337 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\stu_fs2.vp' ... 2355 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango1_fs2.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango2_fs2.vp' ... 15 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango3_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'D:\Games\FreeSpace2\warble_fs2.vp' ... 52 files
Searching root 'h:\' ... 0 files
Found 32 roots and 20086 files.
Setting language to English
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-lcl.tbm' ...
Initializing OpenAL...
  Using 'Generic Hardware' as OpenAL sound device...
  OpenAL Vendor     : Creative Labs Inc.
  OpenAL Renderer   : Software
  OpenAL Version    : 1.1

OpenAL: Restricting MAX_CHANNELS to 28 (default: 32)
... OpenAL successfully initialized!
Initializing OpenGL graphics device at 1920x1080 with 32-bit color...
  Initializing WGL...
  Requested WGL Video values = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  Actual WGL Video values    = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  OpenGL Vendor     : NVIDIA Corporation
  OpenGL Renderer   : GeForce 9800 GT/PCI/SSE2
  OpenGL Version    : 3.3.0

  Using extension "GL_EXT_fog_coord".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_multitexture".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_add".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_compression".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_combine".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_draw_range_elements".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_framebuffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_rectangle".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_bgra".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_cube_map".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_point_sprite".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shading_language_100".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shader_objects".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_shader".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_fragment_shader".
  Using extension "GL_NV_vertex_program3".
  Found special extension function "wglSwapIntervalEXT".

  Initializing Shaders Manager...
  Loading and compiling main shaders...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (null-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (null-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (b-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (b-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (b-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (bg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lb-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfb-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfe-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfe-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (null-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (ls-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (ln-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lsne-f.sdr) ...
  Shaders Manager initialized.

  Max texture units: 4 (32)
  Max elements vertices: 1048576
  Max elements indices: 1048576
  Max texture size: 8192x8192
  Can use compressed textures: YES
  Texture compression available: YES
  Using trilinear texture filter.
  Using GLSL for model rendering.
  Shader Version: 3.30 NVIDIA via Cg compiler
... OpenGL init is complete!
Size of bitmap info = 760 KB
Size of bitmap extra info = 52 bytes
ANI cursorweb with size 24x24 (25.0% wasted)
GRAPHICS: Initializing default colors...
SCRIPTING: Beginning initialization sequence...
SCRIPTING: Beginning Lua initialization...
LUA: Opening LUA state...
LUA: Initializing base Lua libraries...
LUA: Beginning ADE initialization
ADE: Initializing enumeration constants...
ADE: Assigning Lua session...
SCRIPTING: Beginning main hook parse sequence....
Wokka!  Error opening file (scripting.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'scripting.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_flak-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_exp-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_dbrs-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-tcard-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-stupid-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-csc-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-betty-sct.tbm' ...
SCRIPTING: Inititialization complete.
SCRIPTING: Splash screen overrides checked
SCRIPTING: Splash hook has been run
SCRIPTING: Splash screen conditional hook has been run
Using high memory settings...
Wokka!  Error opening file (interface.tbl)!
WMCGUI: Unable to parse 'interface.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-sdf.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-sdf.tbm' ...
ANI 2_radar1 with size 209x170 (33.6% wasted)
Windows reported 16 joysticks, we found 1
Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_music-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-mfl.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-mfl.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-mfl.tbm' ...
Wokka!  Error opening file (armor.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'armor.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-amr.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-amr.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wxp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wxp.tbm' ...
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp20.eff) with 75 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (ExpMissileHit1.eff) with 92 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp04.eff) with 49 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp05.eff) with 93 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp06.eff) with 92 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (capflash.eff) with 40 frames at 10 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Maxim_Impact.eff) with 23 frames at 30 fps.
ANI Lamprey_Impact with size 80x80 (37.5% wasted)
BMPMAN: Found EFF (explo3.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (HFlakExp.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp06b.eff) with 92 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (bomb_flare.eff) with 69 frames at 20 fps.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_assets-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-aip.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-aip.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-obt.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-obt.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'radar-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_assets-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-hdg.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-str.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-str.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-str.tbm' ...
loading animated cursor "cursor"
MediaVPs: Explosions script loaded!
MediaVPs: Flaming debris script loaded!
Ships.tbl is : VALID
Weapons.tbl is : VALID
cfile_init() took 1688
MVE: Buffer underun (First is normal)
Got event GS_EVENT_GAME_INIT (49) in state NOT A VALID STATE (0)
Got event GS_EVENT_MAIN_MENU (0) in state GS_STATE_INITIAL_PLAYER_SELECT (37)
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Exit in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Pilot in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Continue in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Tech in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Option in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Campaign in main hall
Frame  0 too long!!: frametime = 0.272 (0.272)
Frame  0 too long!!: frametime = 0.334 (0.334)
Got event GS_EVENT_QUIT_GAME (5) in state GS_STATE_MAIN_MENU (1)
Freeing all existing models...
... Log closed, Mon Aug 09 22:13:18 2010
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 03:26:55 pm
Code: [Select]
sounds.tbl(line 341:
Error: Missing required token: [#Flyby Sounds End]. Found [$UEF: 0 T_flyby1.wav, 0, 0.75, ]  instead.

<no module>! KiFastSystemCallRet
<no module>! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>

How did this occur? I was pretty sure I followed all instructions carefully... :wtf:

I think you forgot to patch AoA up to the latest.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Mobius on August 09, 2010, 03:31:08 pm
I'm pretty sure I did it. :confused: My AoA Core VP has been created on August 5th, 2010. Is that the latest version?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SomeGuyWithAName on August 09, 2010, 03:34:07 pm
You missed a huge warning in red letters

NOTE: A new BP: AoA update  has been released, you must re-download BP: AoA Core, Visual 1 and Visual 2 if you downloaded them before August 7 2010. These AoA updates are required to play War in Heaven.

It's in the WiH release post
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Mobius on August 09, 2010, 03:37:38 pm
Yep, I should have DLed it a third time. I've also noticed that I still had to extract all latest MVPs from their archives.

Meh, that's what stress does. :sigh:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 09, 2010, 03:44:57 pm
Ok, here's a bug/issue:

If you use a checkpoint, some objectives / directives are still listed as "incomplete"
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 03:47:28 pm
Ok, here's a bug/issue:

If you use a checkpoint, some objectives / directives are still listed as "incomplete"

Point 'em out, I'll fix 'em.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 09, 2010, 03:50:25 pm
As much as I would like to replay the campaign right now, I've got homework to do. Hell, I shouldn't even be on HLP right now...

All I remember is it was like that in 1 or 2 missions featuring checkpoints. Regrettably, I didn't write it down as I noticed it... that would've killed immersion!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 04:05:05 pm
As much as I would like to replay the campaign right now, I've got homework to do. Hell, I shouldn't even be on HLP right now...

All I remember is it was like that in 1 or 2 missions featuring checkpoints. Regrettably, I didn't write it down as I noticed it... that would've killed immersion!

No surprise. Those checkpoints were implemented very late in development, right before release.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: est1895 on August 09, 2010, 04:32:22 pm
I'm getting these error messages:

Could Not Load in2_CommandBrief-mbf
<No Module>! Kfast System Call Ret
<No Module>! Wait For Single Object
<No Module>! <No Symbol>
<No Module>! <No Symbol>

Theres another thing too.  When I run War in Heaven, the first screen says that there are 66 errors.  :eek2:

Help please! :sigh:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 04:41:22 pm
I'm getting these error messages:

Could Not Load in2_CommandBrief-mbf
<No Module>! Kfast System Call Ret
<No Module>! Wait For Single Object
<No Module>! <No Symbol>
<No Module>! <No Symbol>

Theres another thing too.  When I run War in Heaven, the first screen says that there are 66 errors.  :eek2:

Help please! :sigh:

You didn't install quite right. Go to the release post, go over the checklist there and make sure everything's correct. Also make sure you've got 3.6.12 final selected in the launcher.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 09, 2010, 04:58:36 pm
:mad: :hopping: :mad2:

Whoever FREDded the Saturn Carthage mission is, I'm sure, quite proud to be included in that long list of moronic imbecile FREDders who think a hard mission is a good one. You should go see a FREDerapist for your balancing issues. Oh and the trick you used that I'm sure you think was oh so cute, using an end-mission SEXP so I'm never presented with the skip-mission dialog? Yeah, I'd like to force-feed you your own mousepad right now.

Time for a little www.freespace2.com... I was really hoping, having played most of the campaign on Hard so far, that I wouldn't have to do this, but I can't pass that mission even on very easy.

Gorrammit I still love the writing but I wish FREDders wouldn't pull these little stunts.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 05:00:48 pm
:mad: :hopping: :mad2:

Whoever FREDded the Saturn Carthage mission is, I'm sure, quite proud to be included in that long list of moronic imbecile FREDders who think a hard mission is a good one. You should go see a FREDerapist for your balancing issues.

Chill. It has checkpoints. Just use your Slammers and your wingmen.

The beam overload sequence has been made a little easier in SVN.

Quote
Oh and the trick you used that I'm sure you think was oh so cute, using an end-mission SEXP so I'm never presented with the skip-mission dialog? Yeah, I'd like to force-feed you your own mousepad right now.

Hrm, I actually never even thought of that.

Quote
Gorrammit I still love the writing but I wish FREDders wouldn't pull these little stunts.

God forbid the last mission put up a fight! (The only really unfair thing about it is the FPS raep caused by the Karunas.)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Inglonias on August 09, 2010, 05:09:49 pm
Support ships made vishnan beam noises when reloading primaries.  :confused:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 09, 2010, 05:10:24 pm
Support ships made vishnan beam noises when reloading primaries.  :confused:
Noticed this too
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 05:21:37 pm
Support ships made vishnan beam noises when reloading primaries.  :confused:
Noticed this too

Code bug, Goober's fault.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 09, 2010, 05:21:48 pm


Chill. It has checkpoints. Just use your Slammers and your wingmen.

The beam overload sequence has been made a little easier in SVN.

God forbid the last mission put up a fight! (The only really unfair thing about it is the FPS raep caused by the Karunas.)

Any progress on figuring out the timing bug?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SuperCoolAl on August 09, 2010, 05:50:18 pm
My only problem with the last mission was

Spoiler:
the Altan Orde (I think it was called) would get absolutely shafted by corvettes, fighters, the Carthage, everything. Managed to keep it alive on 2% after a few tries, medium difficulty. You have to attack two corvettes (Delta wing are useless) while fighters swarm you and you really have to struggle to stay alive but also complete your beam disarming objective in a minute or less if it takes you time to get there. Sometimes you have too many directives active in this campaign it's difficult to know what to prioritise. Really glad you had the checkpoints!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 09, 2010, 05:50:52 pm
Quote
(The only really unfair thing about it is the FPS raep caused by the Karunas.)

Blargh... at one point I actually was playing in debug mode, and wondering why the frak I was getting 5 FPS. I only figured it out after I had a chance to look at my HUD and saw all the RAM allocation stuff in the upper right corner... :P

Yeah, I just beat it by filling my banks entirely with Slammers except one bank of Paveways, and using those on some beam cannons. (that was the hardest bit for me at least... I always lost one of the forward Karunas to beamspam. Or got pwned by flying into one :P). Excellent 'epilogue' mission (Sunglare), and very, very good credits soundtrack. Actually, all the BP music is invariably awesome.

(I did notice that your credits.tbl is the one from AoA, not WiH. Bug?)

I'll write a more detailed review in a few days, maybe after I get settled back at uni. For the moment, I'll only say that WiH was the single most atmospheric, compelling FS campaign I've played to date. Can't wait for more. :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 05:54:48 pm


Chill. It has checkpoints. Just use your Slammers and your wingmen.

The beam overload sequence has been made a little easier in SVN.

God forbid the last mission put up a fight! (The only really unfair thing about it is the FPS raep caused by the Karunas.)

Any progress on figuring out the timing bug?

Can I get your debug log? Or did I miss it earlier?

Feel free to paste it into the post in code tags.

My only problem with the last mission was

Spoiler:
the Altan Orde (I think it was called) would get absolutely shafted by corvettes, fighters, the Carthage, everything. Managed to keep it alive on 2% after a few tries, medium difficulty. You have to attack two corvettes (Delta wing are useless) while fighters swarm you and you really have to struggle to stay alive but also complete your beam disarming objective in a minute or less if it takes you time to get there. Sometimes you have too many directives active in this campaign it's difficult to know what to prioritise. Really glad you had the checkpoints!

Your pleas have been answered, brave warrior! The next patch will see the active armor on the Altan Orde and Katana improved.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 09, 2010, 05:56:01 pm
(I did notice that your credits.tbl is the one from AoA, not WiH. Bug?)

No, we tacked the BP2 credits on after the AoA credits.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 09, 2010, 06:05:49 pm
Ah, I see it now. Woot, I can find out where your awesome music comes from :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 06:06:47 pm
For those of you stuck on Delenda Est, what would you think about us patching in a helpful feature? It would track the number of times you started the mission via PPV, and when that count exceed six or seven, it would flash some kitten pictures at mission start.

Feedback please.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 09, 2010, 06:07:26 pm
i did a small adjustment
Vulcan/Maul: tech description, increased Vulcan RoF from 0.2 sec to 0.185 sec
Rapier: increased energy usage from 0.4 to 0.65 for balance (its a heavy gun)
Gattler: changed the sound so it doesn't sound like a plasma cannon (custom built) and gave it a very small trail as to it being a EM propelled weapon
UX Accelerator: tech description

(Don't worry its a VP; i love VP_MAKE) That's it! I hope you like it  :D

Edit:
Spoiler:
the Altan Orde (I think it was called) would get absolutely shafted by corvettes, fighters, the Carthage, everything. Managed to keep it alive on 2% after a few tries, medium difficulty. You have to attack two corvettes (Delta wing are useless) while fighters swarm you and you really have to struggle to stay alive but also complete your beam disarming objective in a minute or less if it takes you time to get there. Sometimes you have too many directives active in this campaign it's difficult to know what to prioritise. Really glad you had the checkpoints!

Your pleas have been answered, brave warrior! The next patch will see the active armor on the Altan Orde and Katana improved.

@General Battuta, yeah i just thought of that too, thanks man
i had the thing end up hanging on at 10 percent on EASY and NO bombs hit it, just maxims

EDIT: removed upload
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 09, 2010, 06:27:34 pm
(Don't worry its a VP; i love VP_MAKE) That's it! I hope you like it  :D

Nice effort, but honestly? It's better if things like that are distributed without packing them in VPs. Makes it easier for us to see if you did it right.

Also, the fact that the UX is missing tech descriptions is not an oversight, while the weapon is pretty much finished, it's also not used in the main campaign, which is why we haven't written a description.
Also, vps built with VPMAKE do NOT follow the standard set for VP files. Just so you know, they are technically not guaranteed to work.

Oh, and the weapons tbl you included won't work, because you messed up the filename.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 06:32:56 pm
That said, thank you for the collaborative contribution - we'll definitely take a look at some of the suggested buffs/nerfs. I think some of them may be in order (Rapier energy use nerf, Vulcan ROF buff.) Scalpel's already been buffed on internal to serve as a combo shield breaker and disruptor.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 09, 2010, 06:36:13 pm
@General Battuta, thx man

@The E, it doesn't matter if it is .tbm or .tbl they are the same thing, text files, either extension will work, i know these things

Also, what do you use to make VP's?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 09, 2010, 06:37:40 pm
Maja (http://www.freespacemods.net/download.php?view.67), or cfilearchiver (which is a commandline-only tool).
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 09, 2010, 06:44:25 pm
where can i get a copy of a VP version of 'cfileachiever'?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 09, 2010, 06:50:03 pm
Attached to this post.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 09, 2010, 06:50:49 pm
Edit: I have tried to make a vp with VP MAKE Maja and cfilearchiver none of them work with BP for some reason, but if i set a primarylist in the mod.ini to the root (BPWiH) and splapp the data into, well... the data folder, it works just fine

Edit: here are the uncompressed files

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 09, 2010, 07:46:06 pm
Right. . . . . .
Spoiler:
you are SO lucky that I thoroughly enjoyed watching Steeles glorious crusade and getting impaled on shrapnel while having a nervous breakdown only to end up with a well-done tan. .  As i'm now four hours short of sleep. . . . . . .

 
Also I saw Kittens. . . . . . . And I hated them. :p
 
 
Edit- substituted quote tags for spoilers.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 09, 2010, 07:56:36 pm
So... I flew THROUGH the spinny bit on a Karuna. I thought I was going to get owned when I saw it rotating towards my Uriel on full burn, but I clipped right through at the cost of ~40% hull integrity :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 09, 2010, 08:14:23 pm
Just had to say that the Capship mission/campaign is quite glorious and here's hoping there will be a few more of them in WiH2  :nod:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 09, 2010, 08:19:36 pm

Can I get your debug log? Or did I miss it earlier?

Feel free to paste it into the post in code tags.

yep, here it is again.  Just FYI: Jackknife group jumped in before the order was given in this particular playthrough

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Tantalus53 on August 09, 2010, 08:30:30 pm
Spoiler:
Dear god, i hate all of you. Just when im playing, not just for the fun, but because I am /into/ the story, and I'm completely absorbed in it, (I locked my room door and told my five year old sister ide feed her to the bogeyman if she bugged me) you all hit me with a cliffhanger. I finally finished it, and everything made sense to me at the end. I felt involved. and being Pro GTVA I found myself Cheering when the Imperuse showed up like a god and blitzed every ship within spitting distance. The Yangtzee... Ive never liked the UEF, but i was sad when it got blown away... Same with Simms' illness. You've taken a Sci-Fi space combat sim and made it into a dramatic, movie-esque peice of pure artwork. And I almost forgot about the Bei's, nice to hear from them. I bow to you all, and Officialy am a larger fan of WiH than I am of AoA (and that's saying something.) and to think that WiH is only half released. You all have a gift.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 08:32:15 pm

Can I get your debug log? Or did I miss it earlier?

Feel free to paste it into the post in code tags.

yep, here it is again.  Just FYI: Jackknife group jumped in before the order was given in this particular playthrough

HOW CAN THAT BE

I mean they are specifically cued to arrive when the Indus is EXACTLY that...

...****. Wait a minute.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: est1895 on August 09, 2010, 08:33:14 pm
I'm getting these error messages:

Could Not Load in2_CommandBrief-mbf
<No Module>! Kfast System Call Ret
<No Module>! Wait For Single Object
<No Module>! <No Symbol>
<No Module>! <No Symbol>

Theres another thing too.  When I run War in Heaven, the first screen says that there are 66 errors.  :eek2:

Help please! :sigh:



Could I please have screenshots of the root directory and the blueplanet and blueplanet2 folders?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 08:34:59 pm
I'm getting these error messages:

Could Not Load in2_CommandBrief-mbf
<No Module>! Kfast System Call Ret
<No Module>! Wait For Single Object
<No Module>! <No Symbol>
<No Module>! <No Symbol>

Theres another thing too.  When I run War in Heaven, the first screen says that there are 66 errors.  :eek2:

Help please! :sigh:



Could I please have screenshots of the root directory and the blueplanet and blueplanet2 folders?


What?

Can you post your debug log? You've just got a bad install, it'll only take a second to sort out.

Debug log will fix it.


Can I get your debug log? Or did I miss it earlier?

Feel free to paste it into the post in code tags.

yep, here it is again.  Just FYI: Jackknife group jumped in before the order was given in this particular playthrough

HOW CAN THAT BE

I mean they are specifically cued to arrive when the Indus is EXACTLY that...

...****. Wait a minute.


Can I get one more piece of info from you? Is the Jackknife group arriving when the Indus is about 8000 meters from the Carthage every time? Second, do the two Deimos corvettes that attack usually warp out/blow up near the Karunas, or do they move past them and fly away into the distance?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 09, 2010, 08:37:23 pm
I'm getting these error messages:

Could Not Load in2_CommandBrief-mbf
<No Module>! Kfast System Call Ret
<No Module>! Wait For Single Object
<No Module>! <No Symbol>
<No Module>! <No Symbol>

Theres another thing too.  When I run War in Heaven, the first screen says that there are 66 errors.  :eek2:

Help please! :sigh:

Actually, what you are missing is properly installed mediavps 3.6.12. Read the release post for the 3.6.12 mediavps CAREFULLY and follow the instructions TO THE LETTER.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 09, 2010, 09:11:12 pm

Can I get your debug log? Or did I miss it earlier?

Feel free to paste it into the post in code tags.

yep, here it is again.  Just FYI: Jackknife group jumped in before the order was given in this particular playthrough

HOW CAN THAT BE

I mean they are specifically cued to arrive when the Indus is EXACTLY that...

...****. Wait a minute.


Can I get one more piece of info from you? Is the Jackknife group arriving when the Indus is about 8000 meters from the Carthage every time? Second, do the two Deimos corvettes that attack usually warp out/blow up near the Karunas, or do they move past them and fly away into the distance?

1) Yes, it's about 8000 meters away every time.  2) The Leander (or whichever one your mission obj. is to disarm and not nullify) almost never jumps, despite all it's green beams being knocked out.  It just sails on past and then randomly leaves after a while, even though it's not under attack.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 09:11:49 pm

Can I get your debug log? Or did I miss it earlier?

Feel free to paste it into the post in code tags.

yep, here it is again.  Just FYI: Jackknife group jumped in before the order was given in this particular playthrough

HOW CAN THAT BE

I mean they are specifically cued to arrive when the Indus is EXACTLY that...

...****. Wait a minute.


Can I get one more piece of info from you? Is the Jackknife group arriving when the Indus is about 8000 meters from the Carthage every time? Second, do the two Deimos corvettes that attack usually warp out/blow up near the Karunas, or do they move past them and fly away into the distance?

1) Yes, it's about 8000 meters away every time.  2) The Leander (or whichever one you're mission obj. is to disarm and not nullify) almost never jumps, despite all it's green beams being knocked out.  It just sails on past and then randomly leaves after a while, even though it's not under attack.

Awesome. I know the problem. Tell me, are you issuing any disarm or disable orders to your wingmen?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 09, 2010, 09:15:06 pm

Can I get your debug log? Or did I miss it earlier?

Feel free to paste it into the post in code tags.

yep, here it is again.  Just FYI: Jackknife group jumped in before the order was given in this particular playthrough

HOW CAN THAT BE

I mean they are specifically cued to arrive when the Indus is EXACTLY that...

...****. Wait a minute.


Can I get one more piece of info from you? Is the Jackknife group arriving when the Indus is about 8000 meters from the Carthage every time? Second, do the two Deimos corvettes that attack usually warp out/blow up near the Karunas, or do they move past them and fly away into the distance?

1) Yes, it's about 8000 meters away every time.  2) The Leander (or whichever one you're mission obj. is to disarm and not nullify) almost never jumps, despite all it's green beams being knocked out.  It just sails on past and then randomly leaves after a while, even though it's not under attack.

Awesome. I know the problem. Tell me, are you issuing any disarm or disable orders to your wingmen?

Yeah.  For whatever reason beta wing cannot disarm/disable (the commands are grey'ed out, purposefully I assume now), but gamma wing can be ordered to disarm/disable so I've been sic-ing them on the Leander.  A job they fail spectacularly at, now that I think about it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 09, 2010, 09:22:23 pm
Heh, wait, let me guess.

The Indus and Yangtze are scripted to stop once the two diemos corvettes jump out, so when the leander goes all fubar they just keep going and eventually get close enough to the carthage to trigger jackknife, at which point all hell breaks loose?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 09:24:16 pm
Heh, wait, let me guess.

The Indus and Yangtze are scripted to stop once the two diemos corvettes jump out, so when the leander goes all fubar they just keep going and eventually get close enough to the carthage to trigger jackknife, at which point all hell breaks loose?

Yes. Exactly. And there's a reason the Leander is going all FUBAR. What you've done is triggered a 'bug' - really an ugly hack - that's been in the engine since retail.

When you give a disarm or disable command to a ship, the engine tells all ships that are not the ships you issued the order to to stop firing at your target.

So when you give the disarm/disable command, you're ALSO telling the Indus and Yangtze to stop firing at the Leander...so it never goes low enough hull to warp out.

We really need a fix for this. In the meantime I'll disable all disarm/disable commands for Gamma. You can just avoid using them.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: UltimateAlex94 on August 09, 2010, 09:24:55 pm
Spoiler:
Could someone tell me
a) How I am to be evading the Nyx Fighters in "My Brother, My Enemy"
b) What i need to say.. I tried this stuff for 10 times, was able to win the fight once and then got told i failed due to picking the wrong dialouges..
Thanks

Excellent ships and gameplay untill then though :D:D
Feels like AoA, just much better :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 09:29:19 pm
Spoiler:
Could someone tell me
a) How I am to be evading the Nyx Fighters in "My Brother, My Enemy"
b) What i need to say.. I tried this stuff for 10 times, was able to win the fight once and then got told i failed due to picking the wrong dialouges..
Thanks

Excellent ships and gameplay untill then though :D:D
Feels like AoA, just much better :D

Try just running in the opposite direction. ;7 The Nyxes can't keep up. When the gunships arrive, just kinda...steer back their way.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 09, 2010, 09:37:00 pm
Heh, wait, let me guess.

The Indus and Yangtze are scripted to stop once the two diemos corvettes jump out, so when the leander goes all fubar they just keep going and eventually get close enough to the carthage to trigger jackknife, at which point all hell breaks loose?

Yes. Exactly. And there's a reason the Leander is going all FUBAR. What you've done is triggered a 'bug' - really an ugly hack - that's been in the engine since retail.

When you give a disarm or disable command to a ship, the engine tells all ships that are not the ships you issued the order to to stop firing at your target.

So when you give the disarm/disable command, you're ALSO telling the Indus and Yangtze to stop firing at the Leander...so it never goes low enough hull to warp out.

We really need a fix for this. In the meantime I'll disable all disarm/disable commands for Gamma. You can just avoid using them.

ahahahaha, she works!!!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: esarai on August 09, 2010, 09:37:14 pm
Spoiler:
When the stealth fighters popped Elder Taudigani, at first I was all

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/esaraisaiea/sad-face.jpg)

But then I was all
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk124/esaraisaiea/KirkSTEELEcopy.png)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 09, 2010, 09:40:28 pm
:wakka:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: est1895 on August 09, 2010, 09:41:50 pm
I'm getting these error messages:

Could Not Load in2_CommandBrief-mbf
<No Module>! Kfast System Call Ret
<No Module>! Wait For Single Object
<No Module>! <No Symbol>
<No Module>! <No Symbol>

Theres another thing too.  When I run War in Heaven, the first screen says that there are 66 errors.  :eek2:

Help please! :sigh:

Actually, what you are missing is properly installed mediavps 3.6.12. Read the release post for the 3.6.12 mediavps CAREFULLY and follow the instructions TO THE LETTER.


E how do you post a debug log?  Do you need mantis which I have never used before?   :confused:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 09:43:03 pm
I'm getting these error messages:

Could Not Load in2_CommandBrief-mbf
<No Module>! Kfast System Call Ret
<No Module>! Wait For Single Object
<No Module>! <No Symbol>
<No Module>! <No Symbol>

Theres another thing too.  When I run War in Heaven, the first screen says that there are 66 errors.  :eek2:

Help please! :sigh:

Actually, what you are missing is properly installed mediavps 3.6.12. Read the release post for the 3.6.12 mediavps CAREFULLY and follow the instructions TO THE LETTER.


E how do you post a debug log?  Do you need mantis which I have never used before?   :confused:

Nope. Go to the support forum, read the stickied thread, it's in the last post.

You need to run a debug build (ends in -d or -debug), then go to FreeSpace2/data/ and post fs2_open.log.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: est1895 on August 09, 2010, 10:02:44 pm
I don't see any debug build.  Could you please give me a link? :eek2:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 10:03:48 pm
I don't see any debug build.  Could you please give me a link? :eek2:

You have one in your /FreeSpace 2/ directory. It ends in -d or -debug.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: azile0 on August 09, 2010, 10:38:10 pm
Whooooooooa. I just finished. Whooooooooooa.

I felt hunted. I felt trapped. I felt afraid. I felt rage at the Tevs. This mod is amazing, and I'm glad the BP team took so long to polish and perfect it. Now, I just need to wait another 3 years for part 2. :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 09, 2010, 10:41:19 pm
It probably won't be 3 years for Part 2. The reason WiH took so long is because it was built up from scratch twice (an alpha build was dumped completely for not being awesome enough). It was also developed concurrently with AoA:DC. And it still took about 1/4 as long as most big mods. :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 10:54:09 pm
Whooooooooa. I just finished. Whooooooooooa.

I felt hunted. I felt trapped. I felt afraid. I felt rage at the Tevs. This mod is amazing, and I'm glad the BP team took so long to polish and perfect it. Now, I just need to wait another 3 years for part 2. :D

Actually, War in Heaven only took about fifteen months!

Also how do you get rid of that flash that keeps apearing it keeps causing this to come up i thought you could stop it in the launcher but i cant find it.
LUA ERROR: [string "mv_exp-sct.tbm - On Mission Start"]:593: attempt to index local 'l_anim_flash' (a nil value)

------------------------------------------------------------------
ADE Debug:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Name:      (null)
Name of:   (null)
Function type:   (null)
Defined on:   0
Upvalues:   0

Source:      (null)
Short source:   
Current line:   0
- Function line:   0
------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------------------------------
LUA Stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------



STOP USING A DEBUG BUILD. Play with a release build.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 09, 2010, 11:02:09 pm
Then your mediavps and blueplanet installation is not done right. If you use final .12's and your mediavps and bp installation is done right, you get no debug errors.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 11:03:38 pm
I've asked him for a debug log. Stand by.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 09, 2010, 11:04:11 pm
Support ships made vishnan beam noises when reloading primaries.  :confused:
Noticed this too
This shouldn't be possible. Those rearm sounds are hardcoded to use sound indexes 200 and 201, neither of which is used in BP2. These indexes should be empty.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 09, 2010, 11:07:11 pm
Support ships made vishnan beam noises when reloading primaries.  :confused:
Noticed this too
This shouldn't be possible. Those rearm sounds are hardcoded to use sound indexes 200 and 201, neither of which is used in BP2. These indexes should be empty.

I had this happen once on the retail FS2 campaign when I had BP:WiH selected as a mod.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 09, 2010, 11:09:11 pm
What? Retail campaign has no ballistic primaries. Which means, even if there was a vishnan beam sound assigned to indexes 200 and 201, they would never play in the retail campaign unless you've modded some weapon(s) to be ballistic primaries.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 09, 2010, 11:15:22 pm
I will add that I also experienced a Vishnan beam effect on rearm. I believe it triggered right when I got undocked. Or, it was this weird funky sound that had me spinning about looking for the source before getting confused and giving up. I'm not too sure though, since I'm pretty good at selectively forgetting things like this to aid in immersion.

(first mission with the Uriel, also first mission with ballistic primaries)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 09, 2010, 11:17:43 pm
No, that is not debug log. Read the instructions in this topic: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=56279.msg1180359#msg1180359

So what i download CPU-Z and then what throw it in freespace directory and run it im confused

No. Simply select the -d or -debug build present in your FreeSpace 2 directory in the Launcher, run it, and post the log it generates in FreeSpace2/data/. This log will be called fs2_open.log.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: redsniper on August 09, 2010, 11:22:53 pm
This might be kind of disjointed and rambling, bear with me...

I was asked by a team member to post a review. Since they create such awesome work for free, words of praise are their only 'payment' really, so I think they've earned that much at least.

First, a confession: I wasn't a huge fan of AoA at first. It was great fun, don't get me wrong, but I found the parallel universe plot amusingly cheesy. However it was still very enjoyable because the campaign took itself seriously, the missions were fun to play, and the music was excellent. Since then, it's become one of my favorite campaigns, but I digress... this isn't about AoA.

Spoiler:
First off, this is probably the most well written and well thought out campaign I've ever played. The prose added to the experience tremendously and was a joy to read. The fiction viewer pieces combined with the somber music really made me feel a sense of camaraderie with the Wargods (or foreboding in the case of red ants vs black ants). A million kudos for using actually using debriefing recommendations, btw.

I was assured that WiH would be a gritty, gruesome war story and wondered how that could be accomplished with FS's rather detached combat. Well now I know. I mean holy ****, radiation-poisoned evacuees drowning in their own vomit during EVA?  :shaking: I've seen a few people comparing WiH to BSG, and I can kind of see that, but as I'm writing this I realize that what it really reminds me of is the X-Wing novels. (That's a really good thing, in case you don't know.) Laporte is one cool cat, and it was great fun to watch her struggle with reconciling Ubuntu philosophy and the reality of warfare. Of course it was also great fun to BE her and feel the highs and lows of every victory and defeat.

I know a lot of HLPers have sided with either the UEF or GTVA, but I honestly feel conflicted even after finishing the campaign. I hate Steele's underhanded plots and douchebaggery. I hate to see Laporte and Co. crushed again and again. On the other hand... I don't want to see Xinny and Zero die, they're good guys, they went into the Lion's Den for God's sake. (Also, I'm old-school. I loved Derelict, so it was kind of bittersweet to see the 212th in one mission.) That zod rescue mission was nuts. I thought it might actually be a turning point in the war. Instead I ended up blowing away Scorpio 1 moments after chatting with him because I didn't want to die.

Okay so now let's talk gameplay. You devs are absolute maniacs. Whether you actually have or not, it certainly looks like you've thought out every possible detail of the war. Both fluff-wise and mechanics-wise you've set a new precedent in campaign-making. I mean seriously, the other day I was idling in #bp and Battuta's casually talking about "So yeah, the Aurora sets up a strike link, then passes it on the the other fighters in the area, and THEN they call in the SSM strike," and my mind was blown. Treb strikes, maxim strikes, SSM strikes, gunship strikes, torpedo strikes, strike strikes, WTFPWN Aeolus flak... son I am impress. Oh and all the unconventional stuff was cool too. Dating Simm, frakking QTE, hostage takan, all nice changes of pace.

Running out of steam here, going to wrap up. Playing as a woman was cool; strong female characters FTW. That massive explosion sound effect is god-tier. Difficulty was just right, I usually managed to barely squeak by on my first try on Medium (except on Delenda Est >_<). One Perfect Moment was nice, especially with the sucker punch that follows. The music was spot-on. It was cool to hear some of the same tracks from BP1, helped give it a sense of continuity. Steele is a magnificent bastard. Pegasi are terrifying. I totally caught the Red Faction: Guerrilla reference.

I now can't wait to do some balls-out crazy **** with the Fedayeen. :yes: (But I don't want to destroy the GTVA ;_;)

WiH was hyped up to be something amazing and you all delivered. Keep it up!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 10, 2010, 12:10:02 am
What? Retail campaign has no ballistic primaries. Which means, even if there was a vishnan beam sound assigned to indexes 200 and 201, they would never play in the retail campaign unless you've modded some weapon(s) to be ballistic primaries.

Sorry, I didn't explain well.  I had the beam sound, while reloading my secondaries.  It was in the King's Gambit.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Darius on August 10, 2010, 12:12:33 am
That actually got identified and fixed for a while, but came back again for some unknown reason. By the time I noticed it again it was two days before release, and none of us felt like delaying release for a bug that should already be fixed.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 10, 2010, 12:56:36 am
The vishnan beam sound but has been fixed, again.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 10, 2010, 03:18:40 am
THE ALTERNATE ENDING WAS AWESOME.

Spoiler:
I HUGGED MISTER CUDDLES! Then the Imperieuse jumped in and my invuln had somehow turned itself off. I almost died.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: ION3 on August 10, 2010, 06:00:35 am
Quote
Vishnan beam effect on rearm

Me too
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: UltimateAlex94 on August 10, 2010, 08:33:15 am
Quote
Try just running in the opposite direction. ;7 The Nyxes can't keep up. When the gunships arrive, just kinda...steer back their way.

Haha alright, will do so. I thought I better not do this the first few (wait, few? ;D) attempts because I thought Simms is getting her ass kicked back there.
Anyway, I still Have no idea on point b, that conversation between you and Simms =/

Thanks though
-Alex

Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 10, 2010, 08:54:45 am
Read the briefing carefully. Ng'Mei gives you a bit of advice on how to handle Simms.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 10, 2010, 11:30:51 am
Whooooooooa. I just finished. Whooooooooooa.

I felt hunted. I felt trapped. I felt afraid. I felt rage at the Tevs. This mod is amazing, and I'm glad the BP team took so long to polish and perfect it. Now, I just need to wait another 3 years for part 2. :D

Actually, War in Heaven only took about fifteen months!

Also how do you get rid of that flash that keeps apearing it keeps causing this to come up i thought you could stop it in the launcher but i cant find it.
LUA ERROR: [string "mv_exp-sct.tbm - On Mission Start"]:593: attempt to index local 'l_anim_flash' (a nil value)

------------------------------------------------------------------
ADE Debug:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Name:      (null)
Name of:   (null)
Function type:   (null)
Defined on:   0
Upvalues:   0

Source:      (null)
Short source:   
Current line:   0
- Function line:   0
------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------------------------------
LUA Stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------



STOP USING A DEBUG BUILD. Play with a release build.

I got the same error, I solved this by downloading the core and the 2 visuals assets from Age of Aquarious since they've been updated.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 10, 2010, 12:07:58 pm
Another bug report:  In Pawns, if you load from the checkpoint then the Disable objective for the Deimos never completes.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 12:09:41 pm
Another bug report:  In Pawns, if you load from the checkpoint then the Disable objective for the Deimos never completes.

Fixed!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 10, 2010, 12:15:37 pm
Another bug report:  In Pawns, if you load from the checkpoint then the Disable objective for the Deimos never completes.

Fixed!

Another bug:  after reloading from the checkpoint, all of Simms' dialogue comes from "Command."
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 12:16:32 pm
Another bug report:  In Pawns, if you load from the checkpoint then the Disable objective for the Deimos never completes.

Fixed!

Another bug:  after reloading from the checkpoint, all of Simms' dialogue comes from "Command."

That's because Simms died; her guardian never goes off if the checkpoint is loaded. Already fixed.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 10, 2010, 12:37:34 pm
SPOILER if you REALY want to know
 ;7
Spoiler:
4,3,3,1,1,2
;7
 
Yes there IS a Vishan beam sound during reloading

@BP Dev Team, I threw together a few creepy sounds into a file that you might be able to make use of
*Source: D1 D2

also i scrounged up possible new sounds for the fighter/bomber mounted EM-guns (Redeemer and Vajra) and the Rapier and Maul. I'm also going to try to remake the old Archer from Sol A History? and do some awesome stuff too it like not call it the Archer and give it a accurate back-ground but I'm going to throw all of that together so I'll have it when I have it

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 10, 2010, 12:57:58 pm
I don't understand the spoiler.

I'm guessing D1 and D2 is Descent 1 and 2?

You mean the Archer used on the Wraith from Dawn of Sol, there isn't an Archer in S:AH.

And I'm still curious about this:
Spoiler:
FTFx Thor shield.ani and a weapon called TerSlashBlueAAA, with a very small beam and beamglow, this seems to hint at something.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 10, 2010, 01:24:18 pm
@Commander Zane, dawn of sol? oh right thanks man and yes its Descent

oh and the spoiler? hint: what are the default key bindings?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 10, 2010, 01:37:50 pm
Spoiler:
Saturn mission is pissing me off bigtime. What am I doing wrong? I keep failing it when the Orton orde or w/e gets swiss cheesed or killed by orion flak when it's trying to get it to surrender. I mean, is it necessary to sit 100 meters away from the Carthage in range of everything in sight when the frigate has 11 health left?

here's what I do so far after checkpoint 1: fighters show up, I kill a couple wings with slammers, then beeline to the nearest deimos. Kill 2 beams on one side, kill 2 beams on the orion, kill 2 beams on the other deimos, attempt rearm. At this point, most of my wingmen are dead but so are all enemy fighters. I then rearm and try to kill beams on the leviathans and the aoelus. I usually don't get to this point because the orde will be dead by then, even on very easy.

Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 01:40:57 pm
That part is being made easier in the next patch.

Could you drop this file into your /blueplanet2/data/missions folder and try it out for me? It should help you out with that section.

Edit: Attachment removed
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 10, 2010, 01:44:37 pm
:D yay!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 10, 2010, 02:07:45 pm
I have to say, the Saturn mission has some serious timing issues, so I'm glad to hear it's being addressed.

Spoiler:
For some reason, Jacknife occasionally jumps in early before you even engage the last of the enemy wings - so the group jumps in and you have to take out Deimos beams while there are still 20+ enemy fighters in the sky.  Good ****ing luck.

If that doesn't happen, and you actually manage to take out the Deimos beams, an adventure in and of itself because they keep turning, then the Indus gives the Carthage a chance to surrender, and it promptly blasts one of the frigates (Alta, usually) to pieces either with a beam cannon or flak.  No matter, I think, perhaps this is scripted... but no, the mission ends and informs me I could have saved the Alta.  Right.

I tried this on Medium, where I usually play (and have played the entire campaign to this point) and finally merged down to Easy after 8 failed attempts... and it's still not helping.

It might be doable if the Beam Dsiarming objective didn't fire until most of the fighter wings were eliminated, but as it stands I'm more often than not ending up with the enemy wings virtually intact and then getting an order to wipe out 8 beam turrets while the two Deimos corvettes spin on their axes making Archer use incredibly difficult.

I'm not sure if there's some unintended consequence of checkpoint loading happening here, but the timing in this mission can get seriously FUBAR'ed in a hurry.  As it currently stands, 70 seconds is nowhere near enough time to disarm the beam cannons if so much as a single enemy wing is left.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 10, 2010, 02:13:05 pm
i did it on easy and i was getting shot to hell and back.

The key is the Maxims, the blood Maxims, the Maxims in this mission will CRIPPLE your stuff, i ended up having the Indus hanging on at 10 percent because of those things, take out the anti-cap guys first.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 02:13:59 pm
MP-Ryan: try to avoid giving any disarm/disable orders in the mission. A patch is on the way.

In the meantime I'm going to PM you a version of the mission I want you to test.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 10, 2010, 02:16:46 pm
I have to say, the Saturn mission has some serious timing issues, so I'm glad to hear it's being addressed.

Spoiler:
For some reason, Jacknife occasionally jumps in early before you even engage the last of the enemy wings - so the group jumps in and you have to take out Deimos beams while there are still 20+ enemy fighters in the sky.  Good ****ing luck.

If that doesn't happen, and you actually manage to take out the Deimos beams, an adventure in and of itself because they keep turning, then the Indus gives the Carthage a chance to surrender, and it promptly blasts one of the frigates (Alta, usually) to pieces either with a beam cannon or flak.  No matter, I think, perhaps this is scripted... but no, the mission ends and informs me I could have saved the Alta.  Right.

I tried this on Medium, where I usually play (and have played the entire campaign to this point) and finally merged down to Easy after 8 failed attempts... and it's still not helping.

It might be doable if the Beam Dsiarming objective didn't fire until most of the fighter wings were eliminated, but as it stands I'm more often than not ending up with the enemy wings virtually intact and then getting an order to wipe out 8 beam turrets while the two Deimos corvettes spin on their axes making Archer use incredibly difficult.

I'm not sure if there's some unintended consequence of checkpoint loading happening here, but the timing in this mission can get seriously FUBAR'ed in a hurry.  As it currently stands, 70 seconds is nowhere near enough time to disarm the beam cannons if so much as a single enemy wing is left.
Spoiler:
I thought that was intentional. Almost every play through I've done has jacknife warp in on top of the enemy wings. I figured it was kinda realistic, since the operation isn't supposed to have a high probability of success in the first place.

Battuta, fury nuked your attachment before I could get it :( PM it instead plz?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 10, 2010, 02:18:33 pm
MP-Ryan: try to avoid giving any disarm/disable orders in the mission. A patch is on the way.

In the meantime I'm going to PM you a version of the mission I want you to test.

I haven't been issuing any orders other than destroy target and engage enemy, all against fighters.

I'll test it out right now.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 02:19:54 pm
MP-Ryan: try to avoid giving any disarm/disable orders in the mission. A patch is on the way.

In the meantime I'm going to PM you a version of the mission I want you to test.

I haven't been issuing any orders other than destroy target and engage enemy, all against fighters.

I'll test it out right now.

Make sure you grab the text from the edit box at the bottom so it's not infected with line numbers.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 10, 2010, 02:21:07 pm
i did it on easy and i was getting shot to hell and back.

The key is the Maxims, the blood Maxims, the Maxims in this mission will CRIPPLE your stuff, i ended up having the Indus hanging on at 10 percent because of those things, take out the anti-cap guys first.

The section up till the checkpoint is pretty easy on Medium. I got both escorts through with 26, 68 respectively, and they don't see further action past that point. It's the second part after the checkpoint that has me tearing out hair on even Very Easy.

Also, incredibly useful (though probably an exploit) to change your load-out at checkpoints. I started seeing more success in
Spoiler:
killing turrets after swapping my slammers for paveways. More success = I got to hear a bit of the dialogue about being tagged.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 10, 2010, 02:23:43 pm
The section up till the checkpoint is pretty easy on Medium. I got both escorts through with 26, 68 respectively, and they don't see further action past that point. It's the second part after the checkpoint that has me tearing out hair on even Very Easy.

Also, incredibly useful (though probably an exploit) to change your load-out at checkpoints. I started seeing more success in
Spoiler:
killing turrets after swapping my slammers for paveways. More success = I got to hear a bit of the dialogue about being tagged.
Yeah, I had no trouble getting to the checkpoint on medium, it's the events following at are driving me crazy too.  Though I haven't found paveways particularly useful due to the fact that the corvettes spin and they have a long lock time.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Inglonias on August 10, 2010, 02:30:42 pm
I know its too soon to ask whether part 2 will come out soon, but is it expected to take as long as part 1? Or was some of part 1's dev time modeling/engine/not FREDDING?

Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 10, 2010, 02:33:12 pm
A lot of BP2's development time was spent building the modpack. We'll probably be able to get R2 out of the door more quickly.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 02:35:04 pm
I know its too soon to ask whether part 2 will come out soon, but is it expected to take as long as part 1? Or was some of part 1's dev time modeling/engine/not FREDDING?



Considering that R1 was one of the fastest mod releases in history, I hope we can do it as fast as R1! With luck, faster.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 10, 2010, 03:02:29 pm
Battuta, PM sent to you.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Duidalus on August 10, 2010, 03:10:00 pm
Normally I just lurk around here, but as with BP AoA, I need to convey my thanks to the BP team for creating this great campaign. I really enjoyed the soundtrack too as it simply is an essential part of my gaming experience with any game.

2 simple words are enough to describe the awesomeness of WiH p1: Holy ****.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 03:11:06 pm
Normally I just lurk around here, but as with BP AoA, I need to convey my thanks to the BP team for creating this great campaign. I really enjoyed the soundtrack too as it simply is an essential part of my gaming experience with any game.

2 simple words are enough to describe the awesomeness of WiH p1: Holy ****.

Thank you so much. It's really heartwarming to see all these people coming out of the cracks. People forget that this community is a lot bigger than it looks!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Firartix on August 10, 2010, 03:25:11 pm
Weeeeell
I told you i'd come back as soon as i had played a few missions but it was too good so i decided to finish it first D:

Anyway!
(NOTE: There's obviously more bad things than good ones, since most of the bad points i'm going to tell aren't/are crap)
EDIT: For the record, the "aren't/are crap" meant "aren't bad points/are fake ones". There, i'm cleared of guilty thoughts.

UBER-GUD stuff:
1 - The plot and all missions are good and ultra-immersive... THIS IS CRAP! Now i'm almost crying about how lame logistics on EVE Online are boring to play, and i have to write posts on HLP and listen to WiH music at same time (imported it, it was too coolz) to feel better.
2 - The checkpoint system is ONE OF THE BEST IDEA EVER!
3 - The capship playing mission is fun and all, with plenty good ideas, but a bit disturbing at start. I really liked the tactical and gunnery messages, that's immersive :P (In fact i almost started shouting some stuff like that while playing EVE Online then >_>)
4 - The interactive stuff. I was expecting so much from it that when you get to contact eris tacnet, i paused the game to note down the code, and then tried to write it w/ keyboard...



BAD stuff! (at least, imo)
1 - The checkpoint system, however, cause so many mission bugs D: i self destructed several times, had my wingmen go boom on load, had messages and dialog sequence replay for no reason, and even once I had simms getting gunned down in the middle of a mission (probably a SEXP not being applied or something, idk)
2 - On the last mission, CTD tends to happen when you die. Couldn't quite reproduce or debug.
3 - This campaign makes you want to threaten the mission makers so they hurry finishing part 2
4 - The capship campaign NEEDS more missions! Really, i think you should have included 2 or 3 missions instead of one - because one isn't enough at all to get a good overview of the tactical possibilities and stuff.... When i was told it was only one mission, i though this was a BoE. BoEs make perfect single-mission stuff imo, you get plenty stuff to do.
5 - The last mission definitely is too hard D: ! I could finish most of missions on Insane without (too much :°) problems, but i had to retry the very last multiple times on very easy....
6  - It was too short, i mean, story wise, i really didn't think it'd end that way (game wise it was cool too). I know it's part 1, but it's neither kindda an end or a big break imo..... well thinking about story it should be, but i sure didn't feel it that way.
7 - (WARNING: Personal POV following) The UEF ships needs more railguns and less torpedoes, they'll be more classy !
8 - Missing LODs make using debug builds on the last mission impossible, since the debug build lags soooo much and scalling down settings won't help then. I guess it can cause harm to old GPUs too - but i take it that the LODs will be done in time :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 03:27:44 pm
4 - The interactive stuff. I was expecting so much from it that when you get to contact eris tacnet, i paused the game to note down the code, and then tried to write it w/ keyboard...

That's the one thing that we didn't make interactive that I really wish we had. But it seems like everybody thinks it is and presses the keys.  :shaking:

Thank you for your review! We'd definitely like to do more capship missions and we're hard at work on R2.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 10, 2010, 03:57:41 pm
Having finally finished the campaign, I have some more comments... BUT first, because I think criticism should always be exhausted so praise stands alone, I have a couple comments/suggestions about that last mission around Saturn (yes, even after the patched version):

Spoiler:
Battuta, I got your PM reply.  I think the difficulty in the fray after the checkpoint (prior to the checkpoint is absolutely fine) comes from a variety of sources.
1.  The testers all had extensive practice with Slammers, making the chewing up of the last 5 wings an easy affair for them.  By contrast, those of us who are playing WiH for the first time are relying on their aspect-lock, which doesn't seem to be as effective as the advice testers gave in other threads.  Those wings don't drop fast enough for your average player.
2.  Because the fighter wings don't drop quickly, it's incredibly frustrating to get an order to kill no less than 8 beam turrets while you still have somewhere between 4 (my best so far, on Easy) and 16 enemy fighters left to deal with.
3.  If the sheer number of beam cannons weren't enough, both Deimos corvettes spin rapidly on their X and Y axes, making Paveways useless (they just crash into the hull) and Archer use highly difficult.  Combined with the flak as you attempt to fly around the damn things, this quickly ruins your day if any fighters are left.  Not to mention the 70 (now 80, you've proposed) seconds you have to drop the cannons.

The patch you gave addressed the issue of the Alta dying during the Carthage-surrender sequence.

The issue which is causing mission failure is the beam cannon directive.  Rather than adjust to give you more time, I'd suggest the directive still fire when you have fighters in the sky, BUT set the two Deimos on direct courses for the frigates (eliminate the axis rotation), and reduce the number of beam turrets you have to kill (to the two front turrets on each vessel).  Following the destruction of both frontal beams on both corvettes, fire an event to roll them over and only then have the player destroy the aft turrets.  You could divide the overload sequence into two separate 45-second duration events, with 15 second spacing between them for the course change, rather than just lengthening the time given to kill all the turrets at once.  I notice there is already in-mission dialogue about execution of a roll to bring other turrets to bear, so this could be tied in.  Right now, the debrief when you fail says you need to kill all four turrets within the time-span, and the directive encompasses all four turrets (despite the fact that not all 4 necessarily will fire in an overload).

It also helps if your fellow Wargods attack the Deimos turrets.  That behaviour seems to be improved in the mission patch you gave me, as they finished up one of the Deimos corvettes shortly after I disarmed the other one.

Other than that, the rest of the mission is fine now.

Now then, having finished the campaign, here are my final-ish comments:

Spoiler:
I only recently reinstalled FSO to play Vassago's Dirge, and I'd been eagerly anticipating WiH after playing AoA (when it was first released).  I certainly wasn't disappointed.  I've already given a number of comments about the writing, but I have to briefly reiterate:  the backstory, character development, and mission writing in this mod is without a doubt the best in any FS mod I've played to date.  You guys seriously upp'ed the bar here, and you're well on par with or well past professional game studios on the writing side.  As I said early, it's almost literary.  Probably the best part about the writing is how mature it is - it's very gritty wartime drama, and the tone would be just as well suited to fiction about conventional war in this time period as it is to a sci-fi universe.  The writing had me wanting to basically forget about playing the game and just read through the plot elements - which tells you how immersive it is.

Mission design... while I would have appreciated a little more variety in the role the pilot ultimately ends up playing - as I said in another thread, most of what the pilot does is space superiority (and I hear this will be different in R2, so that's good) - the missions themselves were executed brilliantly, so much so that I didn't actually mind not doing much but space superiority.  The only small issue I had with some of them is the length - more checkpoints would have been extremely useful, though it was mentioned that you had to work within a hard-coded variable limit.  Aside from that, we had diverse settings, diverse goals, and certainly some creative FREDing going on.  And the use of music to convey emotion during the mission gameplay (and cutscenes) was pure genius.  Someone missed their calling as a music editor in film.  The missions made this one of those games (I refuse to think of WiH as just a mod) that you actually feel like you're involved in the story, which is a rarity in flight games (certainly, retail FS2 did not give this feeling nearly as well as WiH has).

The visuals were incredible, which we've come to expect - even when I was getting blown to tiny pieces or getting 'Primary Objective Failed' flashed across my screen in the final mission, I couldn't help but admire just how damn pretty this was.  No complaints on the visual end, though model optimization would be an added bonus.

One nagging drawback, which has been brought up by others, is the lack of real information about weapon choices.  I don't think I actually found a use for the Gattler, and it wasn't until late in the game that I discovered just how useful Darts can be.  Those drawbacks are easy fixes though - additional command briefing stages and tech room entries will take care of that easily.  The other slightly off-putting issue was jargon - there were a few jargon issues and acronyms that got thrown out there during in-mission dialogue that took away from the immersion factor because you can't help sitting in your chair thinking "What does that stand for?  I'm a pilot in a war, I should know what that stands for."  I wish I could remember which mission in particular made me notice that.

Lastly... the ending/cliffhanger.  Brilliant work.  I identified strongly with the Federation throughout the campaign, but I couldn't help admiring Steele in the same crushing moment that the Imperieuse jumped in and ruined the day.  The final sequences were great, and the last moments of the following cutscene when the Fedayeen [aside:  having recently read the Dune novels, this word bugged me because of its similarity to Fedaykin, which then set me wondering if that was intentional and served as a bit of a distraction every time the word cropped up] jumped in set my heart pumping.  As for the Bei's, father and son... well, all of it just makes me itch to play through R2.

In terms of overall feel and gameplay, WiH stands all on its own among FSO mods.  Brilliant work, gentlemen and ladies.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 04:00:53 pm
Thank you, MP-Ryan. I may take your suggestion about the beam overloads.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Vip on August 10, 2010, 04:09:46 pm
4 - The interactive stuff. I was expecting so much from it that when you get to contact eris tacnet, i paused the game to note down the code, and then tried to write it w/ keyboard...

That's the one thing that we didn't make interactive that I really wish we had. But it seems like everybody thinks it is and presses the keys.  :shaking:


You... don't have to press the keys ?  So you're telling me NOW, after several dozen tries at this mission ? Oh come on. I suspected that there was something fishy with the heavy lag after I pressed the keys, but hey, this whole interactive thing is fishy in the first place. And now you're telling me I didn't have to press those keys ? DAMMIT.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 10, 2010, 04:29:44 pm
How many missions have WiH ?
I'm stuck on Delanda Est mission.
Spoiler:
Normally, I play on Medium difficulty, but this one make my day and I play this mission X times before decreasing the difficulty. And now, on Very easy, I couldn't progress any more. The Indus is destroyed or if I go to the checkpoint it's both the Katana/Arta Orde (spelling ??) which went go boom. I don't have enought time to neutralize those deimos beams. My Wingmens seems to ignore my order.

PS: I didn't read previous message concerning this mission, since I've just notice they are talking about tis mission.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 04:31:47 pm
How many missions have WiH ?
I'm stuck on Delanda Est mission.
Spoiler:
Normally, I play on Medium difficulty, but this one make my day and I play this mission X times before decreasing the difficulty. And now, on Very easy, I couldn't progress any more. The Indus is destroyed or if I go to the checkpoint it's both the Katana/Arta Orde (spelling ??) which went go boom. I don't have enought time to neutralize those deimos beams. My Wingmens seems to ignore my order.

PS: I didn't read previous message concerning this mission, since I've just notice they are talking about tis mission.


Yeah I think we need to patch this ASAP.

At the moment the player has been given ten additional seconds to take out the overcharge beams and the Katana and AO have improved active armor as well. I may further reduce the number of beams that overload, or implement a rolling overload like MP-Ryan suggested. If you have feedback supply it now.

Testing is underway on a patched Delenda Est to reduce difficulty and clear up a few mission logic bugs players have identified. Expect a hotfix in the near future.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 10, 2010, 05:48:27 pm
i finished my little weak, i made the DoS Archer into the Tesla, it probably really needs balancing  but i did all of the effects to make it look like a blue-lightning cannon, oh and some sounds for the weapons.

I know that the Tesla's Tech description is insanely long, but it is for post-production explanation (the low ranking pilot thing, uh, I just thought it necessary for unknown reasons

I left the patch mission in there though.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 06:08:29 pm
I believe I'm observing the 'unpredictable Strike 2 arrival' bug in DE as well, and it appears related to checkpoint loads, but I can't guarantee a fix with the next patch. I believe the sequence has been rendered pretty fairly playable on Medium for the newcomer.

Spoiler:
One of the biggest problems with Checkpoint 1 appears to be the fact that it places the Indus and Yangtze too close to the Carthage, thus compressing the time available for the player to shoot down the Carthage's air wing to the absolute minimum. I'll try to recalibrate the checkpoint coordinates to buy the player more time, but it may need to wait for a future patch.

Testing underway. The patch will also contain a little tiny bit of extra content in various missions for the observant, various tiny bugfixes, and a way to account for complete jerks shooting down the shuttle in m13.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 10, 2010, 06:16:39 pm
i finished my little weak, i made the DoS Archer into the Tesla, it probably really needs balancing  but i did all of the effects to make it look like a blue-lightning cannon, oh and some sounds for the weapons.

I know that the Tesla's Tech description is insanely long, but it is for post-production explanation (the low ranking pilot thing, uh, I just thought it necessary for unknown reasons

I left the patch mission in there though.

Slight tip:
When writing XSTR entries, make sure you have either a tstrings.tbl for translations, or set the number to -1. You assigned numbers starting from 3300 for no reason.
Also, spellchecking is king.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 10, 2010, 06:28:35 pm
OOPS (O.O) >>
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Rodo on August 10, 2010, 06:42:20 pm
SO WHERE'S DARIUS???

I demand his appearance in this thread so we can hail him properly.

and maybe send him some love kisses..
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 10:49:19 pm

Can I get your debug log? Or did I miss it earlier?

Feel free to paste it into the post in code tags.

yep, here it is again.  Just FYI: Jackknife group jumped in before the order was given in this particular playthrough

I've figured out exactly what the problem is here; see related thread just posted.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 10, 2010, 11:29:52 pm

Can I get your debug log? Or did I miss it earlier?

Feel free to paste it into the post in code tags.

yep, here it is again.  Just FYI: Jackknife group jumped in before the order was given in this particular playthrough

I've figured out exactly what the problem is here; see related thread just posted.

Nah butta, my problem was ordering gamma to disarm the leander, not the chkpoint.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 10, 2010, 11:36:54 pm

Can I get your debug log? Or did I miss it earlier?

Feel free to paste it into the post in code tags.

yep, here it is again.  Just FYI: Jackknife group jumped in before the order was given in this particular playthrough

I've figured out exactly what the problem is here; see related thread just posted.

Nah butta, my problem was ordering gamma to disarm the leander, not the chkpoint.

Whoops! Should have quoted someone else.

Disarm/disable orders have been removed in the patch version too.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Troyd on August 10, 2010, 11:58:11 pm
Loving what I have played so far!

However, are there suppose to be voice overs like in AoA?  Or is that a directors cut thing :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 11, 2010, 12:08:00 am
Loving what I have played so far!

However, are there suppose to be voice overs like in AoA?  Or is that a directors cut thing :)

If a director's cut of War in Heaven comes out, it'l have voice, but we didn't get to it for R1.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: thedjstu on August 11, 2010, 12:42:54 am

Can I get your debug log? Or did I miss it earlier?

Feel free to paste it into the post in code tags.

yep, here it is again.  Just FYI: Jackknife group jumped in before the order was given in this particular playthrough

I've figured out exactly what the problem is here; see related thread just posted.

Nah butta, my problem was ordering gamma to disarm the leander, not the chkpoint.

Whoops! Should have quoted someone else.

Disarm/disable orders have been removed in the patch version too.

For what it's worth, I think I've played the mission through about 5 or 6 times now that I know how to not FUBAR it.  Absolutely amazing piece of work, with extra emphasis on amazing for the musical score.  I honestly don't know how it could possibly be improved, no complaints about the difficulty level here.

Quick question: how do you guys go about selecting VA's?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Darius on August 11, 2010, 03:28:20 am
Wowsers. One day offline and more than a page in the BP forum of new replies. Thanks to everyone who took the time to review the campaign and given their constructive feedback. The energy with which the community is receiving the campaign is infectious, which'll make the daunting task of putting Part 2 together a lot easier :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 11, 2010, 04:25:37 am
Possibly issue with checkpoints and/or replaying the campaign after I beat it:

I was playing the campaign for a second time, and in "Aristeia", it seemed as though it was restoring from the checkpoint it had saved on my first playthrough, rather than restoring the game as it was when I reached the checkpoint on my second playthrough.

However, I can't be certain, because it takes a damn lot of playing to go through the whole campaign, and I'm not too eager to abandon my current progress.



Also, I got awarded the Ace by Zombie Petrarch.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Madcat on August 11, 2010, 07:42:23 am
After reading all this about Delenda Est, I really wonder how I could ever finish that mission on the first try (and on Easy, too). Probably has been sheer luck that I didn't die and had to use checkpoints, and the fact I didn't have a free second at the controls to even think of ordering Gamma Wing around to disarm ships.

Right now I'm almost afraid to continue with my second playthrough because I might just get frustrated on that mission...  :D
Looking forward to the patch!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 11, 2010, 07:44:12 am
I played a bit of Delenda Est today. Despite all these balance issues it's a masterpiece. :(
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Satellight on August 11, 2010, 07:48:05 am
I played a bit of Delenda Est today. Despite all these balance issues it's a masterpiece. :(

Totally agreed. Even if I wanted to throw my computer by the window, I tried an tried and tried... I couldn't realize when I finally pass trough  :lol: I felt very good (just like an orgasm, you know  :nervous:)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: ssmit132 on August 11, 2010, 08:04:25 am
I finished playing this today, and I stand by what I said before - what you've created is a masterpiece. I suppose I should give a little review:

Spoiler:
I commend the way you manage to make this actually feel like you're in a war, with all sorts of atrocities and other horrible things happening - the people-drowing-in-vomit part still sticks in my mind. Also, how it shows that the sides are not divided between black and white - just a whole field of gray. I liked how you see both the UEF and the GTVA using strategy and the associated military lingo too, it just makes it feel so much more realistic. :yes: (I also feel I should mention that I felt the UEF's fear of plasma beam cannons a few times in the mission where you try to get the Agincourt to the gate, when the Serkr corvettes fire their beams but miss.)

The characters were done really well, it was nice to see the development of the main ones throughout the campaign through both missions and the fiction viewer/command briefings etc. Noemi's development from wouldn't-hurt-a-fly to a killer fighter pilot especially. I saw a bit of myself when I read the part about the ants - although I probably wouldn't mind ants fighting I usually avoid killing bugs myself. :)

I found this quite challenging (I play on medium), and I died quite a few times through the campaign, but I didn't really mind because I felt motivated to keep repeating the missions until I could complete them. One thing that made me feel a little annoyed though was in the Cathage assualt mission where I failed for losing the Yangtze during the retreat - from the GTVA bombers - restarted from the second checkpoint and then found out that the Yangtze ends up being destroyed anyway, but it's not really that big of a deal.

The music was done excellently - it was able to capture the mood of what was going on very well. Only thing that annoyed me was continually hearing the music that plays when you get down to something around 1% in the mission where you defend the cruiser from the rogue GTVA pilots (and also in the mission where the Elder is assasinated, but the annoyance just came from the aformentioned mission), but that was just because I didn't like it personally - it was still a good fit.

Again, a masterpiece, and kudos to the Blue Planet team. :D
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MetalDestroyer on August 11, 2010, 11:27:34 am
Just finished the campaign ! War In Heaven is totally awesome !! (Well, I managed to finished the Delenda Est after I went into Fred 2 and modify some values) :)
Can't wait for the second part. However, since I didn't have enought time to read all the comms in this last mission, I didn't found anywhere a mention concerning
Spoiler:
Commander Bei
.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 11, 2010, 01:07:55 pm
Watch the final cutscene. At the very end of it, after the credits, there's a dialogue between Sam and his father.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 11, 2010, 02:28:51 pm
First update to WiH has been released. This small update to Core should resolve most issues in missions. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70745.msg1401451#msg1401451)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 11, 2010, 02:32:23 pm
Changelog repost for the lazy:

Updates to Core

- Weapon loadout descriptions updated for UEF weapons
- Solaris turret angles fixed
- Scalpel shield damage increased
- Dirk tweaked to be more reliable at the expense of velocity and turning
- Cavalier damage increased, spin-up time increased
- Fixed vishnan beam sound when support ship finishes rearming
- Scripting updates for The Blade Itself, mission behavior now more reliable
- Key-presses in directives and training messages now display correct keys if they've been remapped by player
- Fixed The Cost of War checkpoint notification
- Delenda Est difficulty tweaked and fixed reported issues
- Deals in Shadows altered by addition of GEF gauntlet and traitor-branch if you shoot down the Elder's shuttle
- Spelling and grammar fixes in missions
- Lots of other small mission tweaks

Please report any issues you encounter. Feedback on Delenda Est difficulty is especially welcome.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 11, 2010, 03:28:52 pm
I BROKE IT!!!

Code: [Select]

LUA ERROR: [string "bp2-csc-sct.tbm - On Game Init"]:91: attempt to concatenate local 'targetname' (a nil value)

------------------------------------------------------------------
ADE Debug:
------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: (null)
Name of: (null)
Function type: (null)
Defined on: 0
Upvalues: 0

Source: (null)
Short source:
Current line: 0
- Function line: 0
------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------------------------------
LUA Stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------



In "The Blade Itself", IIRC triggered by me targeting a bomb (with the bomb targeting control)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 11, 2010, 03:30:32 pm
Should be fixed in the patch we released an hour ago.

EDIT: Aaaand it's not. ****.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Renegade Paladin on August 11, 2010, 03:34:01 pm
The Yangtze shoots the Indus with its torpedoes while targeting the GTCv Hydra in Aristeia because it's between it and the target. 
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 11, 2010, 03:34:55 pm
The Yangtze shoots the Indus with its torpedoes while targeting the GTCv Hydra in Aristeia because it's between it and the target. 

I don't think they're armed at that point so it should be okay.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 11, 2010, 04:28:44 pm
Should be fixed in the patch we released an hour ago.

EDIT: Aaaand it's not. ****.

Haha, yeah I was already using the patch IIRC.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Solatar on August 11, 2010, 05:07:51 pm

Spoiler:
BEWARE TEH UBERSATH!  Escorted by none other than the freaky player squadron from Derelict.  Admittedly, I '~-k'ed the Carthage just to see. . .
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 11, 2010, 05:08:31 pm

Spoiler:
BEWARE TEH UBERSATH!  Escorted by none other than the freaky player squadron from Derelict.  Admittedly, I '~-k'ed the Carthage just to see. . .

:nervous:

Did it have enough guns?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Solatar on August 11, 2010, 05:37:31 pm
Plenty of guns, but I think the music is what made it.  :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 11, 2010, 05:39:49 pm
Yeah, when I realised that it was the 212th Silver Scythes, I did a little fanboy squeal, it must be admitted.

Seems they've finally gone up in the world, no longer in the boonies but flying off a top of the line Destroyer, and in some of the GTA's newest space superiority fighters  :yes:

(I know that this isn't the same squadron as the Cold Element continuity, merely a nod to one of the community's more famous campaigns, but a man can dream, a man can dream.)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MP-Ryan on August 11, 2010, 07:15:39 pm
So Batt, do you still need me to test the file you sent or is it now in the new core?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 11, 2010, 07:25:15 pm
So Batt, do you still need me to test the file you sent or is it now in the new core?

It's in, no worries.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 11, 2010, 07:43:51 pm
the ubersath? wtf?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dark Hunter on August 11, 2010, 08:13:09 pm
Kill the Carthage and find out.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 11, 2010, 08:29:40 pm
Just did. All I can say is... ROFL.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 11, 2010, 08:54:02 pm
I did it first, back on like... page 20 or so.

I actually found out about it looking at the mission in Notepad++, and was like "I've gotta try that"
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 11, 2010, 10:34:19 pm
Yeah, when I realised that it was the 212th Silver Scythes, I did a little fanboy squeal, it must be admitted.

Seems they've finally gone up in the world, no longer in the boonies but flying off a top of the line Destroyer, and in some of the GTA's newest space superiority fighters  :yes:

(I know that this isn't the same squadron as the Cold Element continuity, merely a nod to one of the community's more famous campaigns, but a man can dream, a man can dream.)
Well given that Blue Planet includes alternate realities and all, it's fully possible that Mackie's alternate self was in that wing. ;)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 12, 2010, 01:56:58 am
Which mission spawns the Ubersath?  Delena Est, or the one before it?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 12, 2010, 02:05:15 am
Delenda Est
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Venox on August 12, 2010, 02:59:29 am
/unlurk

Hey all, lurker here. I don't hang around the community often as I really don't fit in with such a stellar collection of talented modders, modellers, coders, voice actors, and just general awesome individuals in general. I would have absolutely nothing constructive to add and would probably seem like a blubbering, incoherent n00b who tried to act what he was talking about! Everyone here continues to amaze me with what I feel just isn't a game, but the FS2 SCP as a story-telling platform itself. The fact is, regardless of what I'm about to write here in this little post - good or bad - buried all the way back on the 24th...or 25th? page now... you guys, the entire SCP community, will continue rolling on churning out great, beautiful stuff, even if no one reads my post because... well, TL,DR! But, that's the way I like it.

Anyhow, I'm here in this thread to obviously talk about BP2: War in Heaven. . . where to start? Not that I have a hundred, million things to talk about as numerous as the stars themselves about it, more like...

What could I possibly say that hasn't already been said? What could I praise that hasn't already been praised? I had absolutely zero technical/gameplay problems with the mod, so I can't really criticize such problems like others have been having; quite the contrary, I consider myself so very lucky that I was able to run this mod with maximum detail, advanced graphics, with anti-aliasing (I can't stand jaggies!) and not have my computer explode on me. I felt like you get the full experience of the story that way.

But what experience? One that in my opinion, transcends stories of not other, also brilliant FreeSpace2 mods, but that of literature and film. War in Heaven was something moved me. No, I don't mean in the literal, physical "OMG THE MUSIC WAS SO AWESOME BLEW ME OUT OF MY CHAIR W-WAIT DID THAT NARAYANA JUST NAIL A TEV PERSEUS FROM 25,000K?! *goes flying out of chair*" (although that'd be pretty awesome), but that it simply...made me think about war. About life.

Life lost.
Life created.
Life saved.

Destroyers, Creators, and Preservers respectively. I'm not just Über-Alpha-One, but Noemi Laporte. And yet at the same time, I am not Noemi Laporte. She made decisions that were not up to me. But to her. To someone who truly was, not just the collaboration of a skilled mod team, but actually a real fictional character who I felt was the best part of the story.

Why? Combat high. The side of Noemi who is in increasingly dangerous situations. For while I couldn't dictate her actions on the flight deck, on Mars, on land... when she's in that cockpit, and the adrenaline starts flowing, guess who's in control? Not Noemi Laporte, but me. You. Whoever else sat behind those controls. We are her other half, the side hungry for more. She was flying, but yet I could control how bloodthirsty, or human she would be in combat. It was up to us whether she'd die in a blaze of glory or survive another nerve-rattling sortie. Yes yes, I know, it's still just my opinion (and believe me, I know that many will probably disagree with me and call me crazy) and my take on things, I know that literally, the story has a set path but... still, it felt like when she talks about being afraid of her other side, of embracing it at times, hating it at times... it was my fault.

I've played many SCP mods and stories over the years. Seen the many alternate universes that the story of FreeSpace itself has encompassed. I never really thought of any as superior or inferior to others, just different ways of telling tales of epic struggles of survival and warfare. How I determine whether a story is great and praise worthy, is if months and even years later, I remember every second of them. Back in 2007, I came across Blue Planet: Age of Aquarius and thought - nothing would ever be the same again. Little did I take into account back then, that the only thing that would exceed the original BP mod, was BP2. And it's not even a complete story that I've seen yet. I could probably go on to write dozens of more paragraphs about everything else, but I'm sure I'm losing folks attention by this point!

As I eagerly and patiently await for the next installment, just as I awaited for War in Heaven, as did many others who lie silently, lurking but secretly appreciative of not just what Darius and his team do, but everyone here does, I just wanted to say thanks guys.

Thanks for taking me to a whole 'nother universe, guys. Bleak as it seems - it's beautiful.

Yeah, it's corny. It's TL,DR - DEAL!! But keep on kicking ass. I've taken up enough of everyone's time already! Back to lurking.

/lurk
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: swashmebuckle on August 12, 2010, 04:55:04 am
Quick problem report before bed here--I just started the campaign with a new pilot (cloned from a finished Vassago's Dirge pilot if that makes any difference), and I didn't get a debrief after the first mission.  The text box read something like "No debrief for mission xxxx.fs2" and it registered me as having failed the mission (I had lost the medical ship I think, so 2 ships got away besides the cruisers).  I downloaded all the bp2 and AoA and MediaVP files just after release but didn't get started on this one until tonight, so I replaced my bp2 core vp with the August 11th updated one from the release thread.  I'd check out the mission file myself, but X11 and Darwine have decided to flake out on me tonight :(  The mission itself was awesome though! :yes:

Sorry if this was covered before--the thread is a bit long for 3 in the morning.  Using 3.6.12 release build on mac.  Cheers
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Sara- on August 12, 2010, 04:57:06 am
If something is working strangely, use a fresh new pilot. I suggest letting the medical ship die on intention in a playthrough (cheat if you must) to see if the bug is gone or not.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 12, 2010, 05:23:28 am
omfg. I just took a look at the "BP massive battle" mission.

one. frakking. half. of. a. frame. per. second.

but it was GLORIOUS. Once the ships are optimized, and I get a new PC someday, I'm going to play that mission again, as a testament to just how awesome FS can look.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Sara- on August 12, 2010, 05:27:01 am
The Maya program can average triangles etc to reduce poly's etc.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 12, 2010, 05:32:01 am
That is not the problem with our models.

The problem is that the Karuna, Sanctus, Narayana and ... ALL UEF fighters EXCEPT for the Uhlan, are not optimized for in-game usage. They don't have LODs for the most part, and they use waaaaaaaaay too many textures.
The latter part is the important bit for FSO, thus our models need re-UVing to reduce texture counts. The Karuna, for example, uses 25 unique textures, which is about 20 too many.

That is to say, the base LOD0 meshes are fine (except for wonky smoothing in places), it's just that the other LOD meshes are missing.
In addition, they lack Debris pieces for better asplodination.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 12, 2010, 07:55:34 am
The Maya program can average triangles etc to reduce poly's etc.

Autodesk products, to my knowledge, aren't used very much in this community. It's mostly Blender, Wings and/or PCS2 here.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Sara- on August 12, 2010, 08:01:21 am
The Maya program can average triangles etc to reduce poly's etc.

Autodesk products, to my knowledge, aren't used very much in this community. It's mostly Blender, Wings and/or PCS2 here.

Usually import/export is safe, but Maya has an option to turn models or parts of a model into their own LOD version. I don't know if Blender, Wings etc do that.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 12, 2010, 08:08:40 am
But, as I pointed out, that's not the problem with our models (not the biggest one, anyway).

Also, Androgeos, PCS2 is NOT a modelling program. It's a converter to convert models to the engine's pof format.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 12, 2010, 08:37:45 am
Its mostly an editor for the .pof format for some smart folk who do the .pof conversion in the actual modelling program (Screw the haters, the .pof export plugin for max works way way better than thT collada mess :P )

Autodesk products, to my knowledge, aren't used very much in this community. It's mostly Blender, Wings and/or PCS2 here.
Well you are wrong :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 12, 2010, 08:45:32 am
Its mostly an editor for the .pof format for some smart folk who do the .pof conversion in the actual modelling program (Screw the haters, the .pof export plugin for max works way way better than thT collada mess :P )

IF you have a version of Max that can use it, that is.

Anyway, we now return you to your regularly scheduled WiH talk.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Vip on August 12, 2010, 09:53:49 am
Anyway, we now return you to your regularly scheduled WiH talk.

Heh, seeing the similarities between the Sol war and the NTF Rebellion (an 18 month war between Terrans over ideological issues ? Sounds awfully familiar), I subconsciously expected the UEF to deploy some big-ass ship to wtfpwn GTVA fleet and turn the tide of war, especially after hearing all the talk about
Spoiler:
Byrne's secret project back at Earth.

Spoiler:
Hell, I was sure that it would be the ship jumping in at the end of Delenda Est. Imagine how my hopes were crushed and how disappointed I was to see that instead of some UEF-version of the Colossus, I got Steele's flagship :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Madcat on August 12, 2010, 09:58:21 am
If you're still interested in spelling mistakes, I found one...
briefing page 3 of "One Perfect Moment":

"high-stess"
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 12, 2010, 10:04:54 am
Ahem.

The Imperieuse is not Steele's flagship. The Atreus is.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Qent on August 12, 2010, 10:08:43 am
Dirk: Aspect-Seeking Corkscrew-Missile -- "aspect-seeking" is a canon term at least, but "corkscrew"? Well at least it's very useful for anyone who knows what it means. :P Unless it's military jargon in which case I have no idea what it means. :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 12, 2010, 10:10:48 am
Corkscrew refers to its action as it chases the target. Observe the next time you fire a volley of them, they appear to follow the target in a corkscrew motion (who knows why, perhaps it assists with maneuverability if fired in a dogfight?)

It's not military jargon, don't worry. I was in that department. :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 12, 2010, 10:36:07 am
The Imperieuse is Steele's dragon.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Qent on August 12, 2010, 10:38:57 am
Corkscrew refers to its action as it chases the target. Observe the next time you fire a volley of them, they appear to follow the target in a corkscrew motion (who knows why, perhaps it assists with maneuverability if fired in a dogfight?)

It's not military jargon, don't worry. I was in that department. :P
I assumed it was meant to tell the player that they lead-pursue, though I could be wrong.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 12, 2010, 11:08:17 am
/unlurk

Hey all, lurker here. I don't hang around the community often as I really don't fit in with such a stellar collection of talented modders, modellers, coders, voice actors, and just general awesome individuals in general. I would have absolutely nothing constructive to add and would probably seem like a blubbering, incoherent n00b who tried to act what he was talking about! Everyone here continues to amaze me with what I feel just isn't a game, but the FS2 SCP as a story-telling platform itself. The fact is, regardless of what I'm about to write here in this little post - good or bad - buried all the way back on the 24th...or 25th? page now... you guys, the entire SCP community, will continue rolling on churning out great, beautiful stuff, even if no one reads my post because... well, TL,DR! But, that's the way I like it.

Anyhow, I'm here in this thread to obviously talk about BP2: War in Heaven. . . where to start? Not that I have a hundred, million things to talk about as numerous as the stars themselves about it, more like...

What could I possibly say that hasn't already been said? What could I praise that hasn't already been praised? I had absolutely zero technical/gameplay problems with the mod, so I can't really criticize such problems like others have been having; quite the contrary, I consider myself so very lucky that I was able to run this mod with maximum detail, advanced graphics, with anti-aliasing (I can't stand jaggies!) and not have my computer explode on me. I felt like you get the full experience of the story that way.

But what experience? One that in my opinion, transcends stories of not other, also brilliant FreeSpace2 mods, but that of literature and film. War in Heaven was something moved me. No, I don't mean in the literal, physical "OMG THE MUSIC WAS SO AWESOME BLEW ME OUT OF MY CHAIR W-WAIT DID THAT NARAYANA JUST NAIL A TEV PERSEUS FROM 25,000K?! *goes flying out of chair*" (although that'd be pretty awesome), but that it simply...made me think about war. About life.

Life lost.
Life created.
Life saved.

Destroyers, Creators, and Preservers respectively. I'm not just Über-Alpha-One, but Noemi Laporte. And yet at the same time, I am not Noemi Laporte. She made decisions that were not up to me. But to her. To someone who truly was, not just the collaboration of a skilled mod team, but actually a real fictional character who I felt was the best part of the story.

Why? Combat high. The side of Noemi who is in increasingly dangerous situations. For while I couldn't dictate her actions on the flight deck, on Mars, on land... when she's in that cockpit, and the adrenaline starts flowing, guess who's in control? Not Noemi Laporte, but me. You. Whoever else sat behind those controls. We are her other half, the side hungry for more. She was flying, but yet I could control how bloodthirsty, or human she would be in combat. It was up to us whether she'd die in a blaze of glory or survive another nerve-rattling sortie. Yes yes, I know, it's still just my opinion (and believe me, I know that many will probably disagree with me and call me crazy) and my take on things, I know that literally, the story has a set path but... still, it felt like when she talks about being afraid of her other side, of embracing it at times, hating it at times... it was my fault.

I've played many SCP mods and stories over the years. Seen the many alternate universes that the story of FreeSpace itself has encompassed. I never really thought of any as superior or inferior to others, just different ways of telling tales of epic struggles of survival and warfare. How I determine whether a story is great and praise worthy, is if months and even years later, I remember every second of them. Back in 2007, I came across Blue Planet: Age of Aquarius and thought - nothing would ever be the same again. Little did I take into account back then, that the only thing that would exceed the original BP mod, was BP2. And it's not even a complete story that I've seen yet. I could probably go on to write dozens of more paragraphs about everything else, but I'm sure I'm losing folks attention by this point!

As I eagerly and patiently await for the next installment, just as I awaited for War in Heaven, as did many others who lie silently, lurking but secretly appreciative of not just what Darius and his team do, but everyone here does, I just wanted to say thanks guys.

Thanks for taking me to a whole 'nother universe, guys. Bleak as it seems - it's beautiful.

Yeah, it's corny. It's TL,DR - DEAL!! But keep on kicking ass. I've taken up enough of everyone's time already! Back to lurking.

/lurk

Thanks so much. Morale +10!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 12, 2010, 02:20:53 pm
BATTUTA, WHAT DOES THE SCOUTER SAY ABOUT THE MORALE LEVEL?

Spoiler:
I apologize in advance for this :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 12, 2010, 02:24:10 pm
BATTUTA, WHAT DOES THE SCOUTER SAY ABOUT THE MORALE LEVEL?

Spoiler:
I apologize in advance for this :p

RELEASE IT SPOON! RELEASE EVERYTHING!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 12, 2010, 02:29:58 pm
I think he was fishing for the response that morale is OVER 9000!!!!!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 12, 2010, 02:35:23 pm
I think he was fishing for the response that morale is OVER 9000!!!!!

Yeah but my response was also a DBZ quote. So HA
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SomeGuyWithAName on August 12, 2010, 02:44:14 pm
Yeah but my response was also a DBZ quote.

Really? THEN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS GOING TO DIE!

But on a more "serious" note: After watching the BP massive battle, I am a bit confused. Not because the fps dropped to single-digits for most of it, but mainly because the UEF won, quite deceisively too. With 2 Destroyers to spare.

Is there beam jamming implemented in the mission, was it perhaps buggy behaviour of the beams due to the low framerate, or is that fabled superiority of GTVA-beams really not that big?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Qent on August 12, 2010, 02:50:29 pm
Probably because Solaris-class destroyers own everything.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 12, 2010, 02:55:50 pm
Yeah but my response was also a DBZ quote.

Really? THEN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS GOING TO DIE!

But on a more "serious" note: After watching the BP massive battle, I am a bit confused. Not because the fps dropped to single-digits for most of it, but mainly because the UEF won, quite deceisively too. With 2 Destroyers to spare.

Is there beam jamming implemented in the mission, was it perhaps buggy behaviour of the beams due to the low framerate, or is that fabled superiority of GTVA-beams really not that big?

Replay the mission a few times and you'll see that the outcome is wildly unpredictable...which is why neither side would ever commit to a full fleet action.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Sara- on August 12, 2010, 03:22:05 pm
I'm tempted to pit some UEF simulated ships against GTVA simulated ships, to see combat performance under certain angles and tactics.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 12, 2010, 03:35:27 pm
is massive battle supposed to run decently on modern computers? 
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 12, 2010, 03:36:55 pm
is massive battle supposed to run decently on modern computers? 

Heeeeeeeeell no.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 12, 2010, 03:39:32 pm
just making sure. :)

i rolled back video drivers to see if it fixes the Solaris skybox, but I can't really test it out now as i'm in the middle of moving back to skool.  so i ran massive battle to see what would happen :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 12, 2010, 03:40:52 pm
Consider it a benchmark.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Sara- on August 12, 2010, 03:49:08 pm
Maybe 3DMark will want to use WiH to stress-test videocards. :P

On a serious note, Massive Battle seems to run on 2-3 fps on my PC at the start, going to about 10-20 fps once the beams calm down, and I'm running a really fast rig.

edit: so no, it won't run fast on modern PC's.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 12, 2010, 04:05:18 pm
I guess it runs decently on high-end rigs.

I am not 100% certain what Battuta's intent was when he created it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: hypnagogic on August 12, 2010, 04:45:53 pm
I just want to say that I think WiH is really amazing; excellent work and integration of fiction into the storyline. An amazing campaign so far. I can actually see the scenes that are written about--the writing is some of the best I've seen in Freespace2 or any sci-fi fan fiction for that matter. The missions are also great. Not since Homeworld have I felt as bound up in the stories of the characters.

If you ever need help with voice acting please let me know, it's something I do in real life and would be happy to volunteer.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 12, 2010, 05:03:49 pm
I just want to say that I think WiH is really amazing; excellent work and integration of fiction into the storyline. An amazing campaign so far. I can actually see the scenes that are written about--the writing is some of the best I've seen in Freespace2 or any sci-fi fan fiction for that matter. The missions are also great. Not since Homeworld have I felt as bound up in the stories of the characters.

If you ever need help with voice acting please let me know, it's something I do in real life and would be happy to volunteer.

Thank you! We're really surprised at and grateful for how overwhelmingly positive the reaction has been.

And if you're a voice actor, yes, we absolutely 100% need you. Could you send me a PM with your email?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 12, 2010, 05:23:38 pm
So you are going to put voice acting in War in Heaven too?

If so, I also offer my services.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 12, 2010, 05:37:47 pm
I'd also like to volunteer for that. And if the Labouchere ever makes an appearance, don't you dare give her to anyone else to voice act :P

And now something completely different.
Will there be a glide mod, like the one that came as part of the old 3.6.12 feature pack? I just love to glide  ;)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 12, 2010, 05:39:57 pm
I'd like to volunteer as well.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Insomniac34 on August 12, 2010, 05:45:48 pm
QUESTION: Is there any way to activate the new radar symbols? I have the 3d radar, but not the icons included in 3.6.12.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Madcat on August 12, 2010, 05:57:31 pm
QUESTION: Is there any way to activate the new radar symbols? I have the 3d radar, but not the icons included in 3.6.12.

Yes, download the icons... it's a separate, optional file in the 3.6.12 release thread.

Is there anyway to target the next nav buoy in the Kentauroi Race? Except for "Target under reticle"? I hate flying hair close to hard objects while having to look on my radar for the next waypoint...  :D
So far my record is, IIRC, 2:39 in the mission stats after warpout.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Qent on August 12, 2010, 06:03:01 pm
Is there anyway to target the next nav buoy in the Kentauroi Race? Except for "Target under reticle"? I hate flying hair close to hard objects while having to look on my radar for the next waypoint...  :D
So far my record is, IIRC, 2:39 in the mission stats after warpout.

Shift+T twice happens to select the next buoy.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Vip on August 12, 2010, 06:18:28 pm
is massive battle supposed to run decently on modern computers? 

Heeeeeeeeell no.

I haven't seen such a frame-drop in a looooong, looooong time. Actually, I don't remember seeing anything similar to this at all. Still, as soon as all the Karunas were destroyed, this slideshow changed into a real 60FPS battle :)

I didn't know that the Solaris class was so powerful, in the end all 3 destroyers lived to see another battle. What kind of stats and weaponry those monsters have ? I also wonder how well they would perform against the Colossus or a Sathanas.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Sara- on August 12, 2010, 06:28:06 pm
is massive battle supposed to run decently on modern computers? 

Heeeeeeeeell no.

I haven't seen such a frame-drop in a looooong, looooong time. Actually, I don't remember seeing anything similar to this at all. Still, as soon as all the Karunas were destroyed, this slideshow changed into a real 60FPS battle :)

I didn't know that the Solaris class was so powerful, in the end all 3 destroyers lived to see another battle. What kind of stats and weaponry those monsters have ? I also wonder how well they would perform against the Colossus or a Sathanas.

http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/solaris-poster.png
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 12, 2010, 06:30:20 pm
is massive battle supposed to run decently on modern computers? 

Heeeeeeeeell no.

I haven't seen such a frame-drop in a looooong, looooong time. Actually, I don't remember seeing anything similar to this at all. Still, as soon as all the Karunas were destroyed, this slideshow changed into a real 60FPS battle :)

I didn't know that the Solaris class was so powerful, in the end all 3 destroyers lived to see another battle. What kind of stats and weaponry those monsters have ? I also wonder how well they would perform against the Colossus or a Sathanas.

They're only par with a Raynor and Serkr Team could take one out without a scratch. Sometimes that battle goes the UEF's way, sometimes the GTVA's.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 12, 2010, 06:31:05 pm
I didn't know that the Solaris class was so powerful, in the end all 3 destroyers lived to see another battle. What kind of stats and weaponry those monsters have ? I also wonder how well they would perform against the Colossus or a Sathanas.

See stats here (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/UED_Solaris).

Against a Sathanas, well.... Mathematically speaking, the Sathanas will destroy the Solaris in roughly 5 seconds, if it can bring all BFReds to bear. Conversely, it will take ... uhh ... what we call a very long time for the Solaris to eat through the 1.000.000 HP the Sath has.

Against the Collossus, the same thing applies regarding the 1 million HP, but since the Collies' damage output is much lower, the Solaris has a greater chance of knocking out the Collies' beams.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 12, 2010, 06:38:26 pm
Quote
Weyland-Yutani
Nothing good will come out from this
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 12, 2010, 07:03:17 pm
Damn, speaking of the radar icons I meant to check the .vp to see what was there (Oh wait, my hard drive crashed, got to wait four months, wheee), when I first played a mission with it there didn't seem to be icons for the UEF still, though I remember the Tev fighter icons were pretty big. The fact it uses the icon for the fighter it is was awesome though.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: swamper123 on August 12, 2010, 07:09:06 pm
Thank BP team for your effort creating first, age of aquarius , and now war in heaven, I was playing some levels,but well my computer lags a lot even at mininum requirements , i will play it when i have more ram and video memory, thanks a lot again,  ;)


P.D: sorry about my english (:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 12, 2010, 07:30:40 pm
Quote
Blue Planet: War in Heaven Tech Description

Prior to the outbreak of the UEF-GTVA war, the Solaris class Destroyers were the most controversial pieces of military hardware in use by the Federation. They represented a massive investment of resources and manpower that, according to critics, was fundamentally unnecessary. Designed by an ad-hoc committee of the Federation's best engineering and tactical thinkers and built at Mars' Bradbury Fleet Yards, these enormous warships seemed like answers to a nonexistent problem.
Had the UEF decided not to make those three Solaris destroyers. How different would the war have gone?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Sara- on August 12, 2010, 07:50:24 pm
They might have had 8 or so light destroyers maybe being able to have good footing with fast response, who's to say. All I know is they DO have 3 destroyers and they seem to work well as long as the Tev's are bottlenecked.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: FoeHammer on August 12, 2010, 09:23:53 pm
How many Titans do the Tevs have anyways?  We see three over the course of BP, but are there any that aren't involved in the Tev-Fed war?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 12, 2010, 09:41:52 pm
Hey I have a music request for the next release.

please put some of The Pillows in there.

I know its ridiculous but some of their stuff is completely applicable such as "I think I Can," "Fool on The Planet," "Hybrid Rainbows," and "One Life"

The go good along with the Bei's because of their Oriental(?) descent and just because フリクリ is awesome. (What's Laporte's descent? Simms?)

if you want, I have those songs on file if you want them to listen to.

"I Think I Can" would go great for a massive battle against a Tev destroyer. Why? just find the lyrics, you'll see what I mean
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 12, 2010, 09:49:37 pm
'Noemi Laporte' sounds like a latino name to me...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 12, 2010, 10:17:35 pm
How many Titans do the Tevs have anyways?  We see three over the course of BP, but are there any that aren't involved in the Tev-Fed war?

Three?
The Temeraire, Imperieuse, and...?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 12, 2010, 10:23:45 pm
are there any 14th BG defecting ships that will be seen in WiH?

The Temeraire?  :(

(I have other reasons for wanting to see that ship on the Fed's side) :warp:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 12, 2010, 10:25:19 pm
The Temeraire is still GTVA, probably undergoing extreme analysis to find out just what happened to the 14th BG.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: blowfish on August 12, 2010, 11:42:43 pm
The Solace defected...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 13, 2010, 12:01:21 am
As did the Labouchere and Duke.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Flak on August 13, 2010, 12:39:37 am
The last I read in the notes is that the Temeraire and a few others were somewhat rendered inoperable (ie missing?) due to mutiny or internal rebellion. Not much other information is given.

Also, what happened to the Sanctuary?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 13, 2010, 12:47:57 am
The last I read in the notes is that the Temeraire and a few others were somewhat rendered inoperable (ie missing?) due to mutiny or internal rebellion. Not much other information is given.

Also, what happened to the Sanctuary?

No, the crews fought and rendered the ships incapable of performing their duty. They were withdrawn. Save the Duke, Labouchere and Solace (and the Sanctuary) which defected and joined the UEF wholesale (Though it was by no means a unanimous process)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 13, 2010, 01:04:48 am
The Sanctuary is probably doing something sekret. Perhaps involved with Byrne's big sekret project.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: k19 on August 13, 2010, 01:22:24 am
WiH possible rivals FS1 in emotions.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 13, 2010, 01:32:52 am
WiH possible rivals FS1 in emotions.


Hooray!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 13, 2010, 02:13:50 am
Spoiler:
Beat the Saturn mission, medium, first try. I like the new balancing :P Interesting how badly the UEF got screwed though. At least more dead Karunas means less lag for me!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Saturn on August 13, 2010, 02:15:11 am
 :yes: What a great campaign :yes: The team is very talented, thank all of you for your efforts. There is not much praise left that hasn't been said but thank you it is great.

I have a couple of questions, as I am playing this on a Toshiba Tecra  M4 laptop and I think the Video card is a Ge-force 6200 TE when I get to the mission with the Carthage the frame rate is a bit slow .5fps. I think I have everything turned on and maxed out. What would be some the best settings flags and settings to delete that would have the most impact on frame rate with the least impact on the visuals (yes I know, I want it all)?

The 2nd question concerns the load outs, is it my video card  or are all the missile and gun graphics (on the left) very small about 1/4 scale of FS2?


Thanks again!!! :)

Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 13, 2010, 02:20:48 am
I believe the loadout graphics are going to end up small as they use models instead of bitmaps.

As for Delenda Est, the best way to improve performance is to wait for us to get those models improved.  :(
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 13, 2010, 02:28:47 am
WiH possible rivals FS1 in emotions.


"emotions" covers a lot of things- particularly, for me, the "nostalgia goggles" through which I usually view FS1- but if I cast those aside, I find WiH much more emotionally satisfying than FS1. I don't think FS1's writing/plot is as bad as certain parties tend to make out, but WiH is certainly more believable and atmospheric. (So is AoA, for that matter, but WiH is more in the same strain as FS1- fighting a desperate war for your very survival, on the losing side.)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 13, 2010, 03:03:48 am
WiH possible rivals FS1 in emotions.


"emotions" covers a lot of things- particularly, for me, the "nostalgia goggles" through which I usually view FS1- but if I cast those aside, I find WiH much more emotionally satisfying than FS1. I don't think FS1's writing/plot is as bad as certain parties tend to make out, but WiH is certainly more believable and atmospheric. (So is AoA, for that matter, but WiH is more in the same strain as FS1- fighting a desperate war for your very survival, on the losing side.)
I agree with most of the things in this post minus AoA. AoA was more like an acid trip.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 13, 2010, 03:12:30 am
I agree with most of the things in this post minus AoA. AoA was more like an acid trip.

wat

[EDIT]: added quote since I topped the next page
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 13, 2010, 03:28:10 am
i've seen a couple people say stuff about the re-balanced/patched mission(s), but I never saw a post/thread about an update.  o.0
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 13, 2010, 03:36:57 am
You mean this post? http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70746.msg1401460#msg1401460

Or this? http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70745.msg1401451#msg1401451
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: ssmit132 on August 13, 2010, 03:53:31 am
Spoiler:
I tried the capship flying mission yesterday (or was it the day before? Anyway). I don't know how I went, other than the fact that I was blown up by the meson bomb because I was skeptical that it could destroy my frigate from 10km away (I think it was about that). Needless to say I was wrong.

How come that bomb was more powerful than the ones that were used to destroy the Knossos? Couldn't you survive them from only 3km away (in a fighter! But there was a Sobek there too, at a simliar distance if I recall correctly and it wasn't vaporised)? Not that I don't think there's a reasonable explanation, it's just that I don't know what it is  :nervous:

Also, I forgot to mention this - I recognised one particular bit of music in the Saturn mission as having been used on Top Gear before. :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 13, 2010, 04:37:32 am
The meson bomb is a plot device that runs on phlebotinum. It's stated specifically that you won't be able to escape the blast (I forget when), so you'll have to consider options other than running from it.

In-universe, it was probably a modified bomb for military purposes, using more explosive material (and denser/better material- this is decades after FS2, after all).
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 13, 2010, 05:10:03 am
Will there be a glide mod, like the one that came as part of the old 3.6.12 feature pack?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: QuantumDelta on August 13, 2010, 05:31:23 am
Well at least it took 28 pages before it got asked.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 13, 2010, 09:43:11 am
what he means is, no.  unless someone else hacks it in.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Viko on August 13, 2010, 11:34:47 am
Well i am a little late (28 pages of reply) i've just finished the campaign and i can't wait to see the second part.

You guys did an outstanding work and thank you so much for the very good Time playing this campaign  :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Delta_V on August 13, 2010, 02:38:34 pm
Hi everyone

Just finished the campaign and would like to congratulate you on an outstanding job.   :D  I've played the Director's Cut of AoA and loved the voice acting, and really want to see WiH voice acted as well.

Again, terrific job, although cliffhangers like that are just plain mean.  :doubt:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Nissan on August 13, 2010, 02:41:32 pm
The short version: "Well worth the wait" doesn't even begin to cover it. :D

The longer version:
Spoiler:
War in Heaven evoked emotion like no other campaign I've played. The way you guys set up seemingly hopeful events, then dashed them to the ground... tragic every time, but unbelievably well done. The events leading up to the arrival of the Imperiuse made it clear that the UEF force was doomed, but that didn't make it any more horrifying to see a GTVA destroyer emerge onto the scene. (Well, I say horrifying, but I was happy to see a Titan make an appearance since that's my favorite capship. :p)

But the most powerful scene for me was, by far, the arrival of the second UEF frigate in "What Binds Us". By that point I had conditioned myself to expect GTVA surprises, and the whole mission I was expecting a Deimos or an Aeolus to appear and blast the Indus. To instead see another UEF ship enter the area and destroy the "first sane thing that's happened since the start of this war"... I was too shocked, too deflated to react. I couldn't bring myself to shoot at any of the GTVA ships and just watched my wingmen and the Indus take care of things.

On that note, I think one of the neatest things you guys did, as far as creating the atmosphere, was to portray the GTVA as a completely foreign enemy. As much as it stung to have to kill Xinny and Zero, to battle the 212th, and to attack the Carthage, these were all just constant reminders of how little these names meant to Noemi and the rest of the good guys. I went into it thinking the UEF warriors might be hoping for a peaceful resolution (like me), but everything that transpired made me realize how little the main characters would want that and how unlikely such a resolution would be even if they did.

Awesome as it was, I have to echo the complaints about lag throughout the campaign. People were mentioning 20-30 fps during Delenda Est... honestly, I would've been happy to get something like that over the 7-8 fps I was often playing through in that mission (which, granted, is in some part because I play on a laptop). In all honesty, I found myself playing more for the story and it was good enough to make me overlook the choppy gameplay, which I understand was mostly just a result of the ship models, but I know you guys worked just as hard to make the gameplay excellent and would like to experience that as it's meant to be.

Other than that, though, there wasn't much in the way of errors, though there was one weird issue I found in "One Perfect Moment"...

Spoiler:
Just for fun, I decided to fly close to the surface of the Moon while on the way to the city. As I started to get kinda close, the city started to vanish, like a giant eraser was being dragged across from one side to the other (yeah I suck at explaining these things), and after the city had completely vanished I collided with something invisible. After I turned and flew up a few meters, the city was there again and there weren't any more problems. It doesn't seem like a terribly important issue, but figured it was worth mentioning.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Madcat on August 13, 2010, 04:29:47 pm
Shift+T twice happens to select the next buoy.

Thanks for that, I mapped that to a joystick button and now it works great!
Still, I wonder how Axem did the nav points in Vassago's Dirge, they selected the next one automatically (and had green rings!).

Now I managed to get 2:24 with the Kentauroi and 2:01 with the Lao Tze. The latter one is ridiculously fast and maneuverable...  :eek2:  :yes:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 13, 2010, 04:31:49 pm
The short version: "Well worth the wait" doesn't even begin to cover it. :D

The longer version:
Spoiler:
War in Heaven evoked emotion like no other campaign I've played. The way you guys set up seemingly hopeful events, then dashed them to the ground... tragic every time, but unbelievably well done. The events leading up to the arrival of the Imperiuse made it clear that the UEF force was doomed, but that didn't make it any more horrifying to see a GTVA destroyer emerge onto the scene. (Well, I say horrifying, but I was happy to see a Titan make an appearance since that's my favorite capship. :p)

But the most powerful scene for me was, by far, the arrival of the second UEF frigate in "What Binds Us". By that point I had conditioned myself to expect GTVA surprises, and the whole mission I was expecting a Deimos or an Aeolus to appear and blast the Indus. To instead see another UEF ship enter the area and destroy the "first sane thing that's happened since the start of this war"... I was too shocked, too deflated to react. I couldn't bring myself to shoot at any of the GTVA ships and just watched my wingmen and the Indus take care of things.

On that note, I think one of the neatest things you guys did, as far as creating the atmosphere, was to portray the GTVA as a completely foreign enemy. As much as it stung to have to kill Xinny and Zero, to battle the 212th, and to attack the Carthage, these were all just constant reminders of how little these names meant to Noemi and the rest of the good guys. I went into it thinking the UEF warriors might be hoping for a peaceful resolution (like me), but everything that transpired made me realize how little the main characters would want that and how unlikely such a resolution would be even if they did.

Awesome as it was, I have to echo the complaints about lag throughout the campaign. People were mentioning 20-30 fps during Delenda Est... honestly, I would've been happy to get something like that over the 7-8 fps I was often playing through in that mission (which, granted, is in some part because I play on a laptop). In all honesty, I found myself playing more for the story and it was good enough to make me overlook the choppy gameplay, which I understand was mostly just a result of the ship models, but I know you guys worked just as hard to make the gameplay excellent and would like to experience that as it's meant to be.

Other than that, though, there wasn't much in the way of errors, though there was one weird issue I found in "One Perfect Moment"...

Spoiler:
Just for fun, I decided to fly close to the surface of the Moon while on the way to the city. As I started to get kinda close, the city started to vanish, like a giant eraser was being dragged across from one side to the other (yeah I suck at explaining these things), and after the city had completely vanished I collided with something invisible. After I turned and flew up a few meters, the city was there again and there weren't any more problems. It doesn't seem like a terribly important issue, but figured it was worth mentioning.

Thank you, good sir! I hope we can get those models optimized for you.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Leeko on August 13, 2010, 05:31:35 pm
Crawling out of my lurking hole once again to deliver my accolades.

Spoiler:
This is a masterpiece. Somehow, WiH is one of the few gaming experiences I've ever had that genuinely moved me. The writing is excellent, the plot is a bit too good at raising your hopes and stomping all over them, and the use of music was superb. I especially liked the track from Half-Life 2, which is one of the other games that has the distinction of having a real, deep impact on me (Episode 2's ending, my goodness). The Kentauroi and Uriel were a real pleasure to use. They both made me feel godlike. The former because it can afterburn for ages and fly backwards at a decent speed (SO USEFUL for dogfights) and the latter because it can neuter capships from 3km away. But back on the topic of the emotional component, the writing does an excellent job of characterizing the cast. Noemi's instability and internal conflicts are both evident and believable, and very easy to empathize with. A rare sort of protagonist, in that the character development is strong but you have no problem getting into their shoes. Hats off to whoever was responsible for character design and writing. I have been blown away.
[/spoilers]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 13, 2010, 08:12:35 pm
oh campus internet how i've missed you!  downloading the update at 6 megabytes/second.  will be done before i'm through typing this :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Flak on August 13, 2010, 09:32:43 pm
The music I recognize is the Emperor Battle for Dune Harkonnen theme by David Arkenstone.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 13, 2010, 09:49:12 pm
That was used on AoA, the music on Laporte's personal logs on Chapter 1 were also used then, but I don't remember the name of that track.

And of course the awesome AoA theme music (Main menu, also used in the Admiral escort mission and docking to the Sacred Keeper).
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 13, 2010, 10:26:32 pm
You might also recognize Summon the Worms by Brian Tyler.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kolgena on August 13, 2010, 10:42:18 pm
Who does vocals on ending song? There's an accent in it that sounds almost asian.

Spoiler:
Woot. Didn't expect the ending to be the mission right after pull-my-hair-out-mission, but it was nice to get back to it and finish it off. Simms dying(?) was kinda sad, but a bit predictable at that point.

Oh, and audio seems to be asynch from the video in the credits. Warp sounds are way late, and the "horror-scree" sound that pops up when you see the eye again comes a fair bit after the eye actually pops up. Not sure if that's intentional, but it does seem more than a coincidence that the delays were about the same.

So uh, we're to expect Laporte and Sam to get together in the same wing in part 2? Whichever you play, the other better have maxed out AI :P

Also, because of Nagari and all, I was half expecting a fleet of Shivans to show up and save the Indus. My speculation is probably way off, but I bet Laporte will later convince the Shivans to come own the GTVA in some random deus ex. I can only hope that it doesn't happen.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 13, 2010, 11:06:34 pm
Who does vocals on ending song? There's an accent in it that sounds almost asian.

Read the credits. :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 14, 2010, 12:21:15 am
Who does vocals on ending song? There's an accent in it that sounds almost asian.

Read the credits. :p

Origa, she's Russian, but she lives in Japan.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scourge of Ages on August 14, 2010, 03:44:05 am
ZOMG so awesome! I just barely started playing (had to wrap up AoA:DC first), and had great fun in just the first mission. I actually had to use tactics and attack runs and stuff, which is a big departure from my usual flight plan of: target nearest fighter (or bomber if necessary) kill it, repeat.

In that first mission, during the big attack after the checkpoint, the bombers kept taking out the Ironside. After multiple runthroughs trying different things and failing, I settled on: Arm double Dirk missiles. Put all energy to engines, afterburn straight toward Tev formation. Dirk the first two light bombers, then carry past the remains of that wing and it's escorts. Hit the first Boa with everything I can until I pass it. Go about 1000m past the formation, loop around, and burn straight into it again, firing all available missiles at nearest bombers. My wing took out most of the escorts, and the Ironside finally survived. I had 1% hull integrity left.

I just had to hop on here and say that.  :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: robot_house on August 14, 2010, 03:51:43 am
Hi, brand new to the boards so I'm unsure if this is the right place to be posted, but I appear to have encountered a bug on the Delenda Est mission (which I know is such happy happy news to you all  :D )

Details in the spoiler

Spoiler:

Basically, the event timings are severely out of whack.  The main offender is the Jackknife attack group.  Over the course of the 30 (not an exaggeration) attempts it took to finally beat this mission the Jackknife attack group never entered the engagement at the same time twice.  I had them never show up, I never had them jump in at what I assume is the correct point (after the final strike squadrons from the Tev destroyer are wiped out), but I had them show up everywhere else.  The vast majority of the time they jumped early, usually either before or immediately after the 30+ strike craft are launched.  Once they even arrived before the Jackknife order was given, I did not load from the checkpoint in that instance working on the possibility that that may be the source of the insanity, leaving me 10 clicks away and completely unable to do anything before they were diced into confetti.

Obviously, this makes the mission extremely difficult because 1) You're nowhere near the Tev corvettes you need to disarm and 2) there are still 30+ strike craft who will eat you and your wingmates alive should you ignore them and focus on the corvettes.  As mentioned earlier, it took me 30-ish tries to actually complete the mission, and I suspect my success is mainly based on lucky torpedo hits from the frigates and not any exceptional flying by myself.

there are other little oddities too, like the 2nd Tev corvette in the initial fight never wanting to jump out ever, and gamma wing starting out 5 clicks from you if you load from checkpoint 1 (making them basically useless for the massive charlie-foxtrot that immediately ensues) that kind of mar the whole fun factor as well.

I hate to give bad feedback because, on the whole, I have enjoyed AoA and WiHp1 immensely.  But unfortunately the finale got reduced to an incredibly frustrating experience for me.

I had something like that happen to me too. Although what I kind of realized is that maybe I was using the checkpoint too quickly. More specifically, I already unlocked checkpoint 1 and right when the mission starts I would open the communication window and use it. Then after the checkpoint loaded I would see the frigates moving at really high speeds and then decelerating, sort of like how large ships move really fast right after coming out of subspace and decelerate to normal speeds. So I thought that perhaps loading the checkpoint while the frigates are coming out of subspace causes them to retain their speed. Anyway after that realization I would just wait until the frigates slowed to around 100 m/s to load the checkpoint and that stopped the
Spoiler:
jacknife group from appearing too quickly
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 14, 2010, 05:01:56 am
Just played that creepy Nagari Ken mission again. Seriously, whoever FREDded that mission made it creepier than most of frakking Transcend. It didn't help that I'd read the entire species.tbl file beforehand and was therefore reminded exactly how creepy the Vishnans were.

Spoiler:
And then, of course, I realize that Noemi is being contacted by Shivans, not Vishnans, which somehow makes the whole thing worse.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 12:07:30 pm
Hi, brand new to the boards so I'm unsure if this is the right place to be posted, but I appear to have encountered a bug on the Delenda Est mission (which I know is such happy happy news to you all  :D )

Details in the spoiler

Spoiler:

Basically, the event timings are severely out of whack.  The main offender is the Jackknife attack group.  Over the course of the 30 (not an exaggeration) attempts it took to finally beat this mission the Jackknife attack group never entered the engagement at the same time twice.  I had them never show up, I never had them jump in at what I assume is the correct point (after the final strike squadrons from the Tev destroyer are wiped out), but I had them show up everywhere else.  The vast majority of the time they jumped early, usually either before or immediately after the 30+ strike craft are launched.  Once they even arrived before the Jackknife order was given, I did not load from the checkpoint in that instance working on the possibility that that may be the source of the insanity, leaving me 10 clicks away and completely unable to do anything before they were diced into confetti.

Obviously, this makes the mission extremely difficult because 1) You're nowhere near the Tev corvettes you need to disarm and 2) there are still 30+ strike craft who will eat you and your wingmates alive should you ignore them and focus on the corvettes.  As mentioned earlier, it took me 30-ish tries to actually complete the mission, and I suspect my success is mainly based on lucky torpedo hits from the frigates and not any exceptional flying by myself.

there are other little oddities too, like the 2nd Tev corvette in the initial fight never wanting to jump out ever, and gamma wing starting out 5 clicks from you if you load from checkpoint 1 (making them basically useless for the massive charlie-foxtrot that immediately ensues) that kind of mar the whole fun factor as well.

I hate to give bad feedback because, on the whole, I have enjoyed AoA and WiHp1 immensely.  But unfortunately the finale got reduced to an incredibly frustrating experience for me.

I had something like that happen to me too. Although what I kind of realized is that maybe I was using the checkpoint too quickly. More specifically, I already unlocked checkpoint 1 and right when the mission starts I would open the communication window and use it. Then after the checkpoint loaded I would see the frigates moving at really high speeds and then decelerating, sort of like how large ships move really fast right after coming out of subspace and decelerate to normal speeds. So I thought that perhaps loading the checkpoint while the frigates are coming out of subspace causes them to retain their speed. Anyway after that realization I would just wait until the frigates slowed to around 100 m/s to load the checkpoint and that stopped the
Spoiler:
jacknife group from appearing too quickly

You've got the problem exactly right. Fortunately I believe it's been fixed in the latest patch.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Delta_07 on August 14, 2010, 02:07:52 pm
Good afternoon.

First, I want to congratulate the BP team for another top notch work. I have no doubt that this is among the best mods in FS, if not the best one. And, it's my favourite.

The only problem is that I can't play it! After the intro movie, the game crashes and displays the following:

Could not load in FictionViewer-m!
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 49 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>

I re-installed both the MVps and the mod, but to no result. Any help with this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 02:11:14 pm
Good afternoon.

First, I want to congratulate the BP team for another top notch work. I have no doubt that this is among the best mods in FS, if not the best one. And, it's my favourite.

The inly problem is that I can't play it! After the intro movie, the game crashes and displays the following:

Could not load in FictionViewer-m!
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObjectEx + 49 bytes
kernel32.dll! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>
fs2_open_3_6_12r_INF.exe! <no symbol>

I re-installed both the MVps and the mod, but to no result. Any help with this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Should be an easy fix. Please generate a debug log for us (see the Troubleshooting FAQ, last post).

I suspect you a) aren't using a 3.6.12 Final build, b) don't have the 3.6.12 MVPs installed in a folder called mediavps_3612, or c) didn't download the AoA patch? But we can fix it no matter what it is.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Delta_07 on August 14, 2010, 02:34:07 pm
I followed all the installation steps to the letter. Unzipped all the files to their respective folders, but my pc doesn't seem to let me play.

debug log is in attachment.

oh, and sorry for the sweet time I took.  :D

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 02:34:54 pm
Code: [Select]
==========================================================================
DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning
categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved.
==========================================================================
FreeSpace version: 3.6.12
Passed cmdline options:
  -spec_exp 15
  -ogl_spec 20
  -spec_static 1.5
  -spec_point 1.2
  -spec_tube 1.5
  -ambient_factor 35
  -env
  -mipmap
  -missile_lighting
  -glow
  -nomotiondebris
  -noscalevid
  -spec
  -normal
  -3dshockwave
  -ballistic_gauge
  -dualscanlines
  -orbradar
  -rearm_timer
  -targetinfo
  -3dwarp
  -ship_choice_3d
  -weapon_choice_3d
  -warp_flash
  -mod blueplanet2,blueplanet,mediavps_3612
  -window
Building file index...
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x2fa0cebd
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0x60465ead
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x24b50f90
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x5d4c1bfb
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x8fea63ef
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x1541da12
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0xcc452f9d
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' with a checksum of 0x060bee91
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x0de928dd
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x7e75407b
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x44c7e8dd
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_Advanced.vp' with a checksum of 0x4b8b0f5a
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_AnimGlows.vp' with a checksum of 0x6a554026
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_Assets.vp' with a checksum of 0x529cc70f
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_Effects.vp' with a checksum of 0xb9a9a485
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_Music.vp' with a checksum of 0xb3e21469
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_RadarIcons.vp' with a checksum of 0x31dd7781
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_Root.vp' with a checksum of 0x6ffd5c78
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\root_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xce10d76c
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\smarty_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xddeb3b1e
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\sparky_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x7b00452a
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xa11d56f1
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\stu_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd77da83a
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\tango1_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x4c25221e
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\tango2_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x86920b82
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\tango3_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x705e8d71
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\warble_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd85c305d
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet2\' ... 1 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' ... 23 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' ... 154 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' ... 61 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' ... 660 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' ... 1976 files
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\' ... 17 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' ... 403 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' ... 41 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' ... 685 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' ... 46 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' ... 400 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' ... 1488 files
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\' ... 2 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_Advanced.vp' ... 1283 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_AnimGlows.vp' ... 1641 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_Assets.vp' ... 1905 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_Effects.vp' ... 1892 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_Music.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_RadarIcons.vp' ... 24 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\mediavps_3612\MV_Root.vp' ... 358 files
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\' ... 2419 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\root_fs2.vp' ... 157 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\smarty_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\sparky_fs2.vp' ... 3035 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' ... 1337 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\stu_fs2.vp' ... 2355 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\tango1_fs2.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\tango2_fs2.vp' ... 15 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\tango3_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace 2\warble_fs2.vp' ... 52 files
Found 31 roots and 22514 files.
AutoLang: Language auto-detection successful...
Setting language to English
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-lcl.tbm' ...
Initializing OpenAL...
  Using 'Generic Hardware' as OpenAL sound device...
  OpenAL Vendor     : Creative Labs Inc.
  OpenAL Renderer   : Software
  OpenAL Version    : 1.1

OpenAL: Restricting MAX_CHANNELS to 30 (default: 32)
... OpenAL successfully initialized!
Initializing OpenGL graphics device at 800x600 with 32-bit color...
  Initializing WGL...
  Requested WGL Video values = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  Actual WGL Video values    = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  OpenGL Vendor     : NVIDIA Corporation
  OpenGL Renderer   : GeForce 9500 GT/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW!
  OpenGL Version    : 2.1.2

  Using extension "GL_EXT_fog_coord".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_multitexture".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_add".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_compression".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_combine".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_draw_range_elements".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_framebuffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_rectangle".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_bgra".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_cube_map".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_point_sprite".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shading_language_100".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shader_objects".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_shader".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_fragment_shader".
  Using extension "GL_NV_vertex_program3".
  Found special extension function "wglSwapIntervalEXT".

  Initializing Shaders Manager...
  Loading and compiling main shaders...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (null-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (null-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (b-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (b-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (b-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (bg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lb-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfb-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfe-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfe-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (null-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (ls-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (ln-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lsne-f.sdr) ...
  Shaders Manager initialized.

  Max texture units: 4 (32)
  Max elements vertices: 1048576
  Max elements indices: 1048576
  Max texture size: 8192x8192
  Can use compressed textures: YES
  Texture compression available: YES
  Using trilinear texture filter.
  Using GLSL for model rendering.
  Shader Version: 1.20 NVIDIA via Cg compiler
... OpenGL init is complete!
Size of bitmap info = 760 KB
Size of bitmap extra info = 52 bytes
ANI cursorweb with size 24x24 (25.0% wasted)
GRAPHICS: Initializing default colors...
SCRIPTING: Beginning initialization sequence...
SCRIPTING: Beginning Lua initialization...
LUA: Opening LUA state...
LUA: Initializing base Lua libraries...
LUA: Beginning ADE initialization
ADE: Initializing enumeration constants...
ADE: Assigning Lua session...
SCRIPTING: Beginning main hook parse sequence....
Wokka!  Error opening file (scripting.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'scripting.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_flak-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_exp-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_dbrs-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-tcard-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-stupid-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-csc-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-betty-sct.tbm' ...
SCRIPTING: Inititialization complete.
SCRIPTING: Splash screen overrides checked
SCRIPTING: Splash hook has been run
SCRIPTING: Splash screen conditional hook has been run
Using high memory settings...
Wokka!  Error opening file (interface.tbl)!
WMCGUI: Unable to parse 'interface.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-sdf.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-sdf.tbm' ...
ANI radar1 with size 130x106 (17.2% wasted)
Windows reported 16 joysticks, we found 0
Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_music-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-mfl.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-mfl.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-mfl.tbm' ...
Wokka!  Error opening file (armor.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'armor.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-amr.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-amr.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wxp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wxp.tbm' ...
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp20.eff) with 75 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (ExpMissileHit1.eff) with 92 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp04.eff) with 49 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp05.eff) with 93 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp06.eff) with 92 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (capflash.eff) with 40 frames at 10 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Maxim_Impact.eff) with 23 frames at 30 fps.
ANI Lamprey_Impact with size 80x80 (37.5% wasted)
BMPMAN: Found EFF (explo3.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (HFlakExp.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp06b.eff) with 92 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (bomb_flare.eff) with 69 frames at 20 fps.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_assets-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-aip.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-aip.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-obt.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-obt.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'radar-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_assets-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-hdg.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-str.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-str.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-str.tbm' ...
loading animated cursor "cursor"
MediaVPs: Explosions script loaded!
MediaVPs: Flaming debris script loaded!
Ships.tbl is : VALID
Weapons.tbl is : VALID
cfile_init() took 508
Movie Error:  Unable to open 'intro' movie in any supported format.
Got event GS_EVENT_GAME_INIT (49) in state NOT A VALID STATE (0)
Got event GS_EVENT_MAIN_MENU (0) in state GS_STATE_INITIAL_PLAYER_SELECT (37)
Someone passed an extension to bm_load for file 'hammer1.pcx'
ANI mainwalk.ani with size 127x297 (42.0% wasted)
ANI mainflyby.ani with size 315x116 (9.4% wasted)
ANI maincrane.ani with size 117x73 (43.0% wasted)
ANI mainexit.ani with size 203x110 (14.1% wasted)
ANI mainbarracks.ani with size 163x105 (18.0% wasted)
ANI mainreadyroom.ani with size 139x86 (32.8% wasted)
ANI mainoptions.ani with size 207x131 (48.8% wasted)
ANI maincampaign.ani with size 200x124 (3.1% wasted)
Got event GS_EVENT_NEW_CAMPAIGN (26) in state GS_STATE_MAIN_MENU (1)
Got event GS_EVENT_START_GAME (1) in state GS_STATE_MAIN_MENU (1)
=================== STARTING LEVEL LOAD ==================
Someone passed an extension to bm_load for file 'LoadingBG.pcx'
ANI Loading with size 515x26 (18.8% wasted)
ANI Loading.ani with size 515x26 (18.8% wasted)
Starting model page in...
Beginning level bitmap paging...
BMPMAN: Found EFF (particleexp01.eff) with 10 frames at 8 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (particlesmoke01.eff) with 54 frames at 15 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (particlesmoke02.eff) with 39 frames at 24 fps.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-fbl.tbm' ...
BMPMAN: Found EFF (WarpMap01.eff) with 30 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (WarpMap02.eff) with 30 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Rock_Exp.eff) with 55 frames at 30 fps.
Loading warp model
Loading model 'warp.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'warp.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xbf802ad0, IBX checksum: 0x3888b26c -- "warp.pof"
 300
BMPMAN: Found EFF (shieldhit01a.eff) with 23 frames at 21 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (shieldhit02a.eff) with 45 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (shieldhit03a.eff) with 22 frames at 30 fps.
SHOCKWAVE =>  Loading default shockwave model...
Loading model 'shockwave.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'shockwave.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xa85bec39, IBX checksum: 0xbf8649d9 -- "shockwave.pof"
BMPMAN: Found EFF (shockwave3d-glow.eff) with 159 frames at 24 fps.
Model shockwave.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
SHOCKWAVE =>  Default model load: SUCCEEDED!!
MISSION LOAD: 'bp2-01.fs2'
Hmmm... Extension passed to mission_load...
Using callsign: Brie
Using callsign: Kassim
Using callsign: Laporte
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 11th Tactical Assault
Using callsign: 11th Tactical Assault
Using callsign: 101st Sidewinders
Using callsign: 101st Sidewinders
Using callsign: 101st Sidewinders
Using callsign: 11th Tactical Assault
Using callsign: 103rd Archers
Using callsign: 103rd Archers
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 103rd Archers
Using callsign: 103rd Archers
Using callsign: 101st Sidewinders
Starting mission message count : 292
Ending mission message count : 296
Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices
Loading model 'FtUhlan.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'FtUhlan.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x6ac9794d, IBX checksum: 0x0c7ebe69 -- "FtUhlan.pof"
Submodel 'Uhland' is detail level 3 of 'Uhlana'
Submodel 'Uhlanc' is detail level 2 of 'Uhlana'
Submodel 'Uhlanb' is detail level 1 of 'Uhlana'
Loading model 'Torrent.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'Torrent.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x29fb97c8, IBX checksum: 0x1d3431a4 -- "Torrent.pof"
Submodel 'CRUISERHULLb' is detail level 1 of 'CRUISERHULLa'
Allocating space for at least 25 new ship subsystems ...  a total of 200 is now available (25 in-use).
Loading model 'fighter2t-02.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'fighter2t-02.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xcdb3e195, IBX checksum: 0x3176ea32 -- "fighter2t-02.pof"
Loading model 'fighter2t-05.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'fighter2t-05.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xc8b2f868, IBX checksum: 0x3dfad880 -- "fighter2t-05.pof"
Loading model 'gate.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'gate.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x41681466, IBX checksum: 0x02434415 -- "gate.pof"
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'vortexa', believed to be in ship gate.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'path01', believed to be in ship gate.pof
Loading model 'kadmos.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'kadmos.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x922ba49f, IBX checksum: 0xb72b27e1 -- "kadmos.pof"
Loading model 'medliner.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'medliner.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x867feedb, IBX checksum: 0x7606e0b3 -- "medliner.pof"
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'Bridge', believed to be in ship medliner.pof
Loading model 'liberty.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'liberty.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x9833cc0c, IBX checksum: 0x156880b4 -- "liberty.pof"
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'fighterbay01', believed to be in ship liberty.pof
Submodel 'detail-1b' is detail level 1 of 'detail-1a'
Submodel 'detail-1c' is detail level 2 of 'detail-1a'
Loading model 'Bomber2T-03.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'Bomber2T-03.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xd02b1bbd, IBX checksum: 0x696dc3fc -- "Bomber2T-03.pof"
Loading model 'pfighter01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'pfighter01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xbc3ad812, IBX checksum: 0x45d67d8c -- "pfighter01.pof"
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01d' is detail level 3 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'fgstrikebmb.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'fgstrikebmb.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x2c385027, IBX checksum: 0x949c2e01 -- "fgstrikebmb.pof"
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01d' is detail level 3 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster02b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster02c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster02d' is detail level 3 of 'thruster02a'
Loading model 'bomber2t-01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'bomber2t-01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x83c2373a, IBX checksum: 0x66491bd9 -- "bomber2t-01.pof"
Submodel 'bomb0x-d' is detail level 3 of 'bomb0x-a'
Submodel 'bomb0x-c' is detail level 2 of 'bomb0x-a'
Submodel 'bomb0x-b' is detail level 1 of 'bomb0x-a'
Loading model 'fighter2t-03.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'fighter2t-03.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xce1df975, IBX checksum: 0x37c93eb1 -- "fighter2t-03.pof"
Loading model 'navbuoy.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'navbuoy.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x7c9f8f53, IBX checksum: 0x10cd349c -- "navbuoy.pof"
OpenGL: Created 512x512 FBO!
ANI lock1 with size 35x33 (48.4% wasted)
ANI lockspin with size 63x63 (1.6% wasted)
ANI energy2 with size 54x60 (6.3% wasted)
ANI toggle1 with size 57x20 (37.5% wasted)
ANI weapons1 with size 126x20 (37.5% wasted)
ANI weapons1_b with size 150x20 (37.5% wasted)
ANI toparc1 with size 157x37 (42.2% wasted)
ANI toparc3 with size 25x18 (43.8% wasted)
ANI leftarc with size 64x157 (38.7% wasted)
ANI rightarc1 with size 64x156 (39.1% wasted)
ANI targhit1 with size 31x21 (34.4% wasted)
ANI energy1 with size 12x41 (35.9% wasted)
ANI targetview1 with size 137x156 (39.1% wasted)
ANI targetview2 with size 4x96 (25.0% wasted)
ANI targetview3 with size 7x20 (37.5% wasted)
ANI damage1 with size 148x25 (21.9% wasted)
ANI support1 with size 108x24 (25.0% wasted)
ANI objective1 with size 149x21 (34.4% wasted)
ANI wingman1 with size 71x53 (17.2% wasted)
ANI wingman2 with size 35x53 (17.2% wasted)
ANI wingman3 with size 14x53 (17.2% wasted)
ANI netlag1 with size 29x30 (6.3% wasted)
ANI head1 with size 164x132 (48.4% wasted)
ANI time1 with size 47x23 (28.1% wasted)
Loading model 'htsb.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'htsb.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x817cd0e6, IBX checksum: 0xb0b0e8b5 -- "htsb.pof"
Model htsb.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
Loading model 'ast03.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'ast03.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xb6dfc8cb, IBX checksum: 0x63399160 -- "ast03.pof"
Loading model 'ast02.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'ast02.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xa423ee95, IBX checksum: 0xe5f65885 -- "ast02.pof"
Loading model 'ast01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'ast01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x3caacd7a, IBX checksum: 0xc6bf3751 -- "ast01.pof"
=================== STARTING LEVEL DATA LOAD ==================
Loading model 'support2t-01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'support2t-01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x6512c7b6, IBX checksum: 0xd4a3527c -- "support2t-01.pof"
Submodel 'bodyb' is detail level 1 of 'bodya'
Submodel 'bodyc' is detail level 2 of 'bodya'
Submodel 'bodyd' is detail level 3 of 'bodya'
Loading model 'support2v-01.pof'
ANI Loading.ani with size 515x26 (18.8% wasted)
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'support2v-01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x0abd41b4, IBX checksum: 0x3aadce53 -- "support2v-01.pof"
Submodel 'hercb' is detail level 1 of 'herca'
Submodel 'hercc' is detail level 2 of 'herca'
Submodel 'hercd' is detail level 3 of 'herca'
Loading model 'support01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'support01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x7a26cbbf, IBX checksum: 0xa4a3c026 -- "support01.pof"
Allocating space for at least 104 new ship subsystems ...  a total of 400 is now available (174 in-use).
About to page in ships!
ANI shieldft-02 with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldft-03 with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldft-05 with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldbt-03 with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldbt-01 with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldkulas with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldRhea with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldlancer with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Subach_AniBitmap.eff) with 6 frames at 5 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (PrometheusR_AniBitmap.eff) with 12 frames at 5 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Prometheus_AniBitmap.eff) with 12 frames at 5 fps.
Loading model 'avenger3.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'avenger3.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x8855f87f, IBX checksum: 0x27480536 -- "avenger3.pof"
Model avenger3.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
Loading model 'VulcanGUN.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'VulcanGUN.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x67299b6b, IBX checksum: 0x7f7bc244 -- "VulcanGUN.pof"
Model VulcanGUN.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
Loading model 'Blip.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'Blip.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x8701ba27, IBX checksum: 0x43fcc9bb -- "Blip.pof"
Submodel 'blipb' is detail level 1 of 'blipa'
Submodel 'blipc' is detail level 2 of 'blipa'
Submodel 'blipd' is detail level 3 of 'blipa'
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Particle_Yellow.eff) with 11 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Particle_Blue.eff) with 11 frames at 22 fps.
Loading model 'rockeye.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'rockeye.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x821bc51b, IBX checksum: 0x957ed0d8 -- "rockeye.pof"
Submodel 'rockeye-b' is detail level 1 of 'rockeye-a'
Submodel 'rockeye-c' is detail level 2 of 'rockeye-a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'Tempest.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'Tempest.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x4fcb12af, IBX checksum: 0xf2c2dadd -- "Tempest.pof"
Loading model 'NewHornet.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'NewHornet.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x2c76000e, IBX checksum: 0x3b55fe00 -- "NewHornet.pof"
Loading model 'bombardier.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'bombardier.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x11edee12, IBX checksum: 0x6082d46a -- "bombardier.pof"
Submodel 'realhornet-b' is detail level 1 of 'realhornet-a'
Submodel 'realhornet-c' is detail level 2 of 'realhornet-a'
Loading model 'crossbow.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'crossbow.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x19e682bb, IBX checksum: 0xd789e656 -- "crossbow.pof"
No subsystems found for model "crossbow.pof".
Loading model 'stilettoII.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'stilettoII.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xc03ac47f, IBX checksum: 0x5eff91ed -- "stilettoII.pof"
BMPMAN: Found EFF (missilespew04.eff) with 20 frames at 30 fps.
Loading model 'belial.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'belial.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x99bae2a2, IBX checksum: 0x80eea276 -- "belial.pof"
BMPMAN: Found EFF (shockwave01.eff) with 94 frames at 30 fps.
Loading model 'cmeasure01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'cmeasure01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x562739c3, IBX checksum: 0x9097924b -- "cmeasure01.pof"
Loading model 'Longbow.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'Longbow.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x9ed18a4a, IBX checksum: 0x818aa0f7 -- "Longbow.pof"
Loading model 'dirk1pod.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'dirk1pod.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xc39767db, IBX checksum: 0x2d4eeecd -- "dirk1pod.pof"
Model dirk1pod.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
Loading model 'InterceptorT.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'InterceptorT.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x8d57e22a, IBX checksum: 0xd6388146 -- "InterceptorT.pof"
Loading model 'DirkPodHC.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'DirkPodHC.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x1a57e9d9, IBX checksum: 0x77ce014e -- "DirkPodHC.pof"
Model DirkPodHC.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
Loading model 'hellfire.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'hellfire.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x095d2434, IBX checksum: 0xc91c7cd7 -- "hellfire.pof"
Loading model 'hellfireEXT.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'hellfireEXT.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x80933ea9, IBX checksum: 0xf6a1f3ab -- "hellfireEXT.pof"
Model hellfireEXT.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
BMPMAN: Found EFF (missilespew01.eff) with 20 frames at 30 fps.
Loading model 'GBU-240.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'GBU-240.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xb388876a, IBX checksum: 0x96cc6596 -- "GBU-240.pof"
Loading model 'debris01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'debris01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x974f214b, IBX checksum: 0x368eb490 -- "debris01.pof"
Loading model 'debris02.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'debris02.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x8e0eed50, IBX checksum: 0x7b2a747e -- "debris02.pof"
BMPMAN: Found EFF (explode1.eff) with 43 frames at 25 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (PWmuzzle.eff) with 4 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Gmuzzle.eff) with 5 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Cmuzzle.eff) with 4 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Bmuzzle.eff) with 5 frames at 30 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Rmuzzle.eff) with 4 frames at 30 fps.
Paging in mission messages
Stopping model page in...
ANI radar1.ani with size 130x106 (17.2% wasted)
ANI Loading.ani with size 515x26 (18.8% wasted)
ANI lock1.ani with size 35x33 (48.4% wasted)
ANI energy2.ani with size 54x60 (6.3% wasted)
ANI toggle1.ani with size 57x20 (37.5% wasted)
ANI weapons1.ani with size 126x20 (37.5% wasted)
ANI toparc1.ani with size 157x37 (42.2% wasted)
ANI toparc3.ani with size 25x18 (43.8% wasted)
ANI leftarc.ani with size 64x157 (38.7% wasted)
ANI rightarc1.ani with size 64x156 (39.1% wasted)
ANI targhit1.ani with size 31x21 (34.4% wasted)
ANI energy1.ani with size 12x41 (35.9% wasted)
ANI targetview1.ani with size 137x156 (39.1% wasted)
ANI targetview2.ani with size 4x96 (25.0% wasted)
ANI targetview3.ani with size 7x20 (37.5% wasted)
ANI damage1.ani with size 148x25 (21.9% wasted)
ANI support1.ani with size 108x24 (25.0% wasted)
ANI objective1.ani with size 149x21 (34.4% wasted)
ANI wingman1.ani with size 71x53 (17.2% wasted)
ANI wingman2.ani with size 35x53 (17.2% wasted)
ANI wingman3.ani with size 14x53 (17.2% wasted)
ANI netlag1.ani with size 29x30 (6.3% wasted)
ANI head1.ani with size 164x132 (48.4% wasted)
ANI time1.ani with size 47x23 (28.1% wasted)
ANI shieldft-02.ani with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldft-03.ani with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldft-05.ani with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldbt-03.ani with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldbt-01.ani with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldkulas.ani with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldRhea.ani with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldlancer.ani with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
User bitmap 'TMP200x124+16'
User bitmap 'TMP207x131+16'
User bitmap 'TMP46x64+16'
User bitmap 'TMP139x86+16'
User bitmap 'TMP163x105+16'
User bitmap 'TMP203x110+16'
User bitmap 'TMP117x73+16'
User bitmap 'TMP315x116+16'
User bitmap 'TMP127x297+16'
User bitmap 'TMP256x256+8'
User bitmap 'TMP256x256+8'
User bitmap 'TMP128x128+8'
Bmpman: 2164/4750 bitmap slots in use.
Ending level bitmap paging...
=================== ENDING LOAD ================
Real count = 446,  Estimated count = 425
================================================
SCRIPTING: Starting flashy deaths script loading

Class: gtf ulysses
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf hercules
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf hercules mark ii
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf ares
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf erinyes
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf loki
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf pegasus
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf perseus
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf myrmidon
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sf mara (terrans)
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtb artemis
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtb artemis d.h.
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtb medusa
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtb ursa
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtb zeus
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtb boanerges
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtdr amazon
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtdr amazon advanced
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.45
BEDu: 5000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gts hygeia
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtfr triton
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.45
BEDu: 5000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: tc-tri
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1
BE: 0.4
BEDu: 4000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtfr poseidon
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6

Class: tc 2
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: tsc 2
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: tac 1
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: ttc 1
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtc fenris
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtm hippocrates
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtc leviathan
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtsc faustus
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtg zephyrus
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.55
BEDu: 7000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gta charybdis
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.5
BEDu: 6000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtd orion
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtd hecate
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtd orion#2 (bastion)
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtd hades
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gti arcadia
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtva colossus
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 5
FE: 6
BE: 0.75
BEDu: 11000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtcv deimos
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.65
BEDu: 9000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtc aeolus
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: ntf iceni
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.65
BEDu: 9000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: ntf boadicea
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtt elysium
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6

Class: gtt argo
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.4
BEDu: 4000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gti ganymede
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: knossos
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 5
FE: 6
BE: 0.8
BEDu: 12000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtsg watchdog
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtsg cerberus
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtsg alastor
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtep hermes
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: tc-meson bomb
FRM: 4
FE: 6
BE: 0.8
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 10

Class: gtsg mjolnir
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtsg mjolnir#home
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gvf seth
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvf horus
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvf thoth
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvf serapis
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvf tauret
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvb sekhmet
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvb osiris
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvb bakha
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvf ptah
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvs nephthys
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6

Class: gvt isis
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6

Class: pvfr ma'at
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6

Class: gvfr bes
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6

Class: vac 5
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: vac 4
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvfr satis
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.45
BEDu: 5000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gvg anuket
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.55
BEDu: 7000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gvc aten
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gvc mentu
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gvcv sobek
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.65
BEDu: 9000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gvd typhon
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gvsg ankh
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvsg edjo
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gvep ra
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gva setekh
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.5
BEDu: 6000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gvd hatshepsut
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: sf dragon
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sf basilisk
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sf manticore
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sf aeshma
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sf mara
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sf astaroth
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sb nephilim
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sb taurvi
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sb nahema
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sb seraphim
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: st azrael
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6

Class: sfr dis
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.45
BEDu: 5000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: sac 3
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1
BE: 0.4
BEDu: 4000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: sfr mephisto
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6

Class: sc 5
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sfr asmodeus
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.45
BEDu: 5000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: sac 2
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sc lilith
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: sc rakshasa
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: sd demon
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: sd ravana
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: sd lucifer
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: ssg trident
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: ssg belial
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: ssg rahu
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.55
BEDu: 7000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: scv moloch
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.65
BEDu: 9000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: sj sathanas
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 5
FE: 6
BE: 0.75
BEDu: 11000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: shivan comm node
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.65
BEDu: 9000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtf aurora
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf kulas
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf comanche
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf seminole
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf cherokee
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtb yurok
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtb navajo
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtc hyperion
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtcv chimera
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.65
BEDu: 9000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtcv bellerophon
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.65
BEDu: 9000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtd titan
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtd raynor
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtl anemoi
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: orion refit
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: alliance jump gate
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.8
BEDu: 12000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: sj dante
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 5
FE: 6
BE: 0.75
BEDu: 11000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: vishnan preserver
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 5
FE: 6
BE: 0.75
BEDu: 11000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: vishnan arbiter
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.65
BEDu: 9000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: vishnan sacred keeper
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: vishnan missionary
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: vishnan preacher
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: vishnan seeker
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: vishnan inquisitor
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: vishnan protector
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: uefg karuna
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.65
BEDu: 9000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gtf atalanta
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf nyx
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtf draco
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtb rhea
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: gtcv diomedes
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.65
BEDu: 9000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: gvl tawaret
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: uef uhlan
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: uef kentauroi
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: uef uriel
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: uef izra'il
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: uef lao tze
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: uef ainsarii
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: ueb durga
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: ueb vajradhara
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: uem florence
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: uet kadmos
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.4
BEDu: 4000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: uet corsair
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6

Class: uet upanishad
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: uea oculus
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.5
BEDu: 6000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: uec sanctus
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.6
BEDu: 8000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: uefg narayana
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.65
BEDu: 9000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: ued solaris
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: ues centaur
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6

Class: uefr demeter
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 6
BE: 0.45
BEDu: 5000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: uec-dem
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 1
FE: 1
BE: 0.4
BEDu: 4000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: uei kumari
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: intrasystem gate
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: uei bretonia
DRM: 0.25
DE: 2
DM: 1
FRM: 2
FE: 6
BE: 0.7
BEDu: 10000
BEDM: 2.5

Class: scimitar
FRM: 1
FE: 1

Class: sred
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 200
BEDi: 100

Class: lred
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 600
BEDi: 300

Class: bfred
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 2100
BEDi: 1050

Class: terslash
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 350
BEDi: 175

Class: lterslash
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 150
BEDi: 75

Class: bfgreen
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 1900
BEDi: 950

Class: lrbgreen
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 1900
BEDi: 950

Class: bgreen
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 1200
BEDi: 650

Class: sgreen
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 210
BEDi: 105

Class: svas
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 350
BEDi: 175

Class: bvas
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 1100
BEDi: 550

Class: vslash
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 750
BEDi: 375

Class: green beam
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 200
BEDi: 100

Class: mjolnirbeam
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 750
BEDi: 375

Class: mjolnirbeam#home
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 400
BEDi: 200

Class: cyclops
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 2000
BEDi: 1000

Class: cyclops#short
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 2000
BEDi: 1000

Class: rebel bomb
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 400
BEDi: 200

Class: helios
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 6800
BEDi: 3400

Class: unknown bomb
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 1500
BEDi: 750

Class: unknown megabomb
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 3200
BEDi: 1600

Class: shivan bomb
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 2000
BEDi: 1000

Class: shivan bomb#short
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 2000
BEDi: 1000

Class: shivan weak bomb
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 400
BEDi: 200

Class: shivan megabomb
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 6800
BEDi: 3400

Class: fusion mortar
FR: 20
FE: 6
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 80
BEDi: 40

Class: vasudan flux cannon
FR: 20
FE: 6
BEI: 0.4
BEDu: 500
BEDi: 250

Class: vishnan huge turret
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 90
BEDi: 45

Class: hred
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 800
BEDi: 400

Class: lrsred
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 100
BEDi: 50

Class: terslashblue
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 425
BEDi: 212.5

Class: bfblue
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 2200
BEDi: 1100

Class: hblue
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 1850
BEDi: 925

Class: bblue
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 1500
BEDi: 750

Class: mblue
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 900
BEDi: 450

Class: sblue
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 320
BEDi: 160

Class: abeamtiny
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 200
BEDi: 100

Class: sabeam
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 400
BEDi: 200

Class: babeam
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 870
BEDi: 435

Class: lrabeam
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 2500
BEDi: 1250

Class: mass driver#karuna
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 1200
BEDi: 600

Class: gauss cannon#karuna
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 1200
BEDi: 600

Class: vishnan megabomb
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 4100
BEDi: 2050

Class: vishnan ultrabomb
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 4100
BEDi: 2050

Class: eos
FR: 150
FE: 7
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 1000
BEDi: 500

Class: supernova
FR: 200
FE: 7
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 5000
BEDi: 2500

Class: apocalypse#karuna
FR: 100
FE: 7
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 500
BEDi: 250

Class: archer
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 350
BEDi: 175

Class: redeemer
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 120
BEDi: 60

Class: vajra
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 600
BEDi: 300

Class: mass driver#sanctus
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 600
BEDi: 300

Class: mass driver#narayana
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 2400
BEDi: 1200

Class: gauss cannon#sanctus
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 600
BEDi: 300

Class: gauss cannon#narayana
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 2400
BEDi: 1200

Class: gattler turret#solaris
BEI: 0.2
BEDu: 15
BEDi: 7.5

Class: warhammer
FR: 50
FE: 6
BEI: 0.4
BEDu: 500
BEDi: 250

Class: sledgehammer
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 7500
BEDi: 3750

Class: jackhammer
FR: 100
FE: 6
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 4000
BEDi: 2000

Class: warhammer#sanctus
FR: 50
FE: 6
BEI: 0.4
BEDu: 500
BEDi: 250

Class: apocalypse#narayana
FR: 150
FE: 7
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 1000
BEDi: 500

Class: apocalypse#solaris
FR: 125
FE: 7
BEI: 0.6
BEDu: 1000
BEDi: 500

Class: hydra#spawn
FR: 25
FE: 6
BEI: 0.4
BEDu: 125
BEDi: 62.5
MediaVPs: Flaming debris script ACTIVE!
Received post for event GS_EVENT_FICTION_VIEWER during state transtition. Find Allender if you are unsure if this is bad.
Got event GS_EVENT_FICTION_VIEWER (66) in state GS_STATE_START_GAME (52)
ERROR: Could not load in FictionViewer-m!
File: window.cpp
Line: 85
Int3(): From c:\temp\fs2_final_export\code\globalincs\windebug.cpp at line 1155

Working on it. Gimme a bit.

I have a horrible suspicion.

Disable 'play in window.' See if it works.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Delta_07 on August 14, 2010, 02:48:17 pm
The window mode was enabled to generate the log (Troubleshooting FAQ intructions). It doesn't work in full screen either...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: pecenipicek on August 14, 2010, 02:50:15 pm
I followed all the installation steps to the letter. Unzipped all the files to their respective folders, but my pc doesn't seem to let me play.

debug log is in attachment.

oh, and sorry for the sweet time I took.  :D
can you try playing in fullscreen? (that is without -window selected)


nevermind....
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 02:54:14 pm
The window mode was enabled to generate the log (Troubleshooting FAQ intructions). It doesn't work in full screen either...

You're kidding me!

Right. I'm sure we've seen this bug before, and I'm sure we solved it. I just need one of our tech support guys to show up. Sorry for the hassle.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Delta_07 on August 14, 2010, 02:56:35 pm
not a problem at all :)

I apologise for not being too helpul (still in the noob evolutionary stage)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 03:01:39 pm
not a problem at all :)

I apologise for not being too helpul (still in the noob evolutionary stage)

For what it's worth, your install looks good...any chance we can get screenshots of your blueplanet, blueplanet2 and FreeSpace2 folders?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 14, 2010, 03:16:14 pm
Problem is too low resolution. Set it to 1024x768 or higher.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 03:19:54 pm
Problem is too low resolution. Set it to 1024x768 or higher.

We should patch in fiction viewer art for the lower resolutions, since we did it for loadscreens.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Delta_07 on August 14, 2010, 03:24:50 pm
The E, thanks a bunch. Worked like magic. :lol:

well, now I'll get occupieded for the next hours.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 14, 2010, 03:34:41 pm
I don't know if this has been fixed or not... but one of the UEF bombers is missing most of its textures.

Also, do we have any intel/background info on the GTF Draco? It looks kind of like a Perseus...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Fury on August 14, 2010, 03:39:24 pm
I don't know if this has been fixed or not... but one of the UEF bombers is missing most of its textures.
There are no missing textures. I suggest you to check your vp-files checksums.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 03:41:06 pm
Also, do we have any intel/background info on the GTF Draco? It looks kind of like a Perseus...

The ships.tbl entry should provide plenty of background.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 14, 2010, 03:57:44 pm
I don't know if this has been fixed or not... but one of the UEF bombers is missing most of its textures.

And you didn't tell us which one because....
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 14, 2010, 04:01:45 pm
The model is "HellraiserXA.pof", the UEB Vajradhara. Looking at the model in PCS2 (with all of the relevant directories in the search path), nearly all of the textures for this model appear to be missing. Thus, I suspect it is not a matter of a bad download, but rather an oversight. Nonetheless, if you're sure this isn't the case, and if you can tell me where to find the checksum and what to compare it against, I'll go ahead and do that.

Illustration (in F3 lab, but it demonstrates the issue just the same): (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l77/Aardwolf001/Quick%20Illustrations/hellraiser_missing_textures.png)

Edit: @The E: because there's only 2 :p
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 14, 2010, 04:12:16 pm
The error is almost certainly on your end. Please post a log.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 14, 2010, 04:19:16 pm
Very well.

Code: [Select]

==========================================================================
DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning
categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved.
==========================================================================
FreeSpace version: 3.6.12
Passed cmdline options:
  -spec_exp 15
  -ogl_spec 20
  -spec_static 1.5
  -spec_point 1.2
  -spec_tube 1.5 bloom_intensity 100
  -ambient_factor 35
  -env
  -missile_lighting
  -glow
  -nomotiondebris
  -spec
  -no_emissive_light
  -normal
  -3dshockwave
  -post_process
  -cache_bitmaps
  -rearm_timer
  -3dwarp
  -ship_choice_3d
  -weapon_choice_3d
  -warp_flash
  -snd_preload
  -mod blueplanet2,blueplanet,mediavps_3612
  -fullscreen_window
  -output_sexps
  -output_scripting
Building file index...
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x2fa0cebd
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0x60465ead
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x24b50f90
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x5d4c1bfb
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x8fea63ef
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x1541da12
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0xcc452f9d
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' with a checksum of 0x060bee91
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' with a checksum of 0xe2219ccf
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x30ee5a34
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x44c7e8dd
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Advanced.vp' with a checksum of 0x4b8b0f5a
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_AnimGlows.vp' with a checksum of 0x6a554026
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Assets.vp' with a checksum of 0x529cc70f
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Effects.vp' with a checksum of 0xb9a9a485
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Music.vp' with a checksum of 0xb3e21469
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Root.vp' with a checksum of 0x6ffd5c78
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\multi-mission-pack.vp' with a checksum of 0x377695e0
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\root_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xce10d76c
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\smarty_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xddeb3b1e
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x164fe65a
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xa11d56f1
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\stu_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd77da83a
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango1_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x4c25221e
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango2_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x86920b82
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango3_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x705e8d71
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\warble_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd85c305d
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\' ... 5 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' ... 23 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' ... 154 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' ... 61 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' ... 660 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' ... 1976 files
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\' ... 1 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' ... 403 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' ... 41 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' ... 685 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' ... 46 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' ... 373 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' ... 1488 files
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\' ... 1 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Advanced.vp' ... 1283 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_AnimGlows.vp' ... 1641 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Assets.vp' ... 1905 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Effects.vp' ... 1892 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Music.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\MV_Root.vp' ... 358 files
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\' ... 22 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\multi-mission-pack.vp' ... 110 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\root_fs2.vp' ... 157 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\smarty_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_fs2.vp' ... 3027 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' ... 1337 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\stu_fs2.vp' ... 2355 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango1_fs2.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango2_fs2.vp' ... 15 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango3_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\warble_fs2.vp' ... 52 files
Found 31 roots and 20155 files.
Setting language to English
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-lcl.tbm' ...
Initializing OpenAL...
  Using 'Generic Software' as OpenAL sound device...
  OpenAL Vendor     : Creative Labs Inc.
  OpenAL Renderer   : Software
  OpenAL Version    : 1.1

... OpenAL successfully initialized!
Initializing OpenGL graphics device at 1600x900 with 32-bit color...
  Initializing WGL...
  Requested WGL Video values = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  Actual WGL Video values    = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  OpenGL Vendor     : ATI Technologies Inc.
  OpenGL Renderer   : ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4670
  OpenGL Version    : 2.1.8784 FireGL

  Using extension "GL_EXT_fog_coord".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_multitexture".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_add".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_compression".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_combine".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_draw_range_elements".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_framebuffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_rectangle".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_bgra".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_cube_map".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_point_sprite".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shading_language_100".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shader_objects".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_shader".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_fragment_shader".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shader_texture_lod".
  Found special extension function "wglSwapIntervalEXT".

  Initializing Shaders Manager...
  Loading and compiling main shaders...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (null-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (null-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (b-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (b-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (b-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (bg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lb-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfb-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfe-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfe-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfn-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (null-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (ls-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (ln-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (ln-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lsn-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgsne-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lne-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lsne-f.sdr) ...
  Shaders Manager initialized.

  Max texture units: 8 (16)
  Max elements vertices: 2147483647
  Max elements indices: 16777215
  Max texture size: 8192x8192
  Can use compressed textures: YES
  Texture compression available: YES
  Using trilinear texture filter.
  Using GLSL for model rendering.
  Shader Version: 1.30
... OpenGL init is complete!
Size of bitmap info = 760 KB
Size of bitmap extra info = 52 bytes
ANI cursorweb with size 24x24 (25.0% wasted)
GRAPHICS: Initializing default colors...
SCRIPTING: Beginning initialization sequence...
SCRIPTING: Beginning Lua initialization...
LUA: Opening LUA state...
LUA: Initializing base Lua libraries...
LUA: Beginning ADE initialization
ADE: Initializing enumeration constants...
ADE: Assigning Lua session...
SCRIPTING: Outputting scripting metadata...
SCRIPTING: Beginning main hook parse sequence....
Wokka!  Error opening file (scripting.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'scripting.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_flak-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_exp-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_dbrs-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-tcard-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-stupid-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-csc-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-betty-sct.tbm' ...
SCRIPTING: Inititialization complete.
SCRIPTING: Splash screen overrides checked
SCRIPTING: Splash hook has been run
SCRIPTING: Splash screen conditional hook has been run
Using high memory settings...
render_target: creating new 1600x900 FBO
render_buffer: creating new 1600x900 render buffer
texture_pool: creating new 1600x900 texture
Wokka!  Error opening file (interface.tbl)!
WMCGUI: Unable to parse 'interface.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-sdf.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-sdf.tbm' ...
ANI 2_radar1 with size 209x170 (33.6% wasted)
Windows reported 16 joysticks, we found 0
Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_music-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-mfl.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-mfl.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-mfl.tbm' ...
Wokka!  Error opening file (armor.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'armor.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-amr.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-amr.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wxp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wxp.tbm' ...
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp20.eff) with 75 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (ExpMissileHit1.eff) with 92 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp04.eff) with 49 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp05.eff) with 93 frames at 20 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp06.eff) with 92 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (capflash.eff) with 40 frames at 10 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (Maxim_Impact.eff) with 23 frames at 30 fps.
ANI Lamprey_Impact with size 80x80 (37.5% wasted)
BMPMAN: Found EFF (explo3.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (HFlakExp.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp06b.eff) with 92 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (bomb_flare.eff) with 69 frames at 20 fps.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_assets-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-aip.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-aip.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-obt.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-obt.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_assets-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_core-hdg.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'mv_effects-str.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-str.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-str.tbm' ...
loading animated cursor "cursor"
MediaVPs: Explosions script loaded!
MediaVPs: Flaming debris script loaded!
Ships.tbl is : VALID
Weapons.tbl is : VALID
cfile_init() took 1008
Got event GS_EVENT_GAME_INIT (49) in state NOT A VALID STATE (0)
Got event GS_EVENT_MAIN_MENU (0) in state GS_STATE_INITIAL_PLAYER_SELECT (37)
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Exit in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Pilot in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Continue in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Tech in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Option in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Campaign in main hall
Got event GS_EVENT_LAB (64) in state GS_STATE_MAIN_MENU (1)
Loading model 'HellRaiserXA.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX/TSB to read for 'HellRaiserXA.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xf7a4d505, IBX checksum: 0x0fbfdc44 -- "HellRaiserXA.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'hellraiser' referenced by model 'HellRaiserXA.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'bansheeparts' referenced by model 'HellRaiserXA.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'GArmR', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'GArmL', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'GcoverR', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'GcoverL', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'GcoverFRNT', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'GProbes', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'GRail', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'Gbarrel', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'GcoverTop', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'BbayBtms', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'BBayRout', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'BBayRin', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'BBayLin', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'BBayLout', believed to be in ship HellRaiserXA.pof
Frame  0 too long!!: frametime = 33.126 (33.126)
Frame  1 too long!!: frametime = 0.728 (0.728)
Got event GS_EVENT_PREVIOUS_STATE (7) in state GS_STATE_LAB (50)
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Exit in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Pilot in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Continue in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Tech in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Option in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Campaign in main hall
Got event GS_EVENT_QUIT_GAME (5) in state GS_STATE_MAIN_MENU (1)
Freeing all existing models...
... Log closed, Sat Aug 14 17:16:17 2010

Of interest I imagine:

Code: [Select]
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x2fa0cebd
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0x60465ead
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x24b50f90
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x5d4c1bfb
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x8fea63ef
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x1541da12
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0xcc452f9d
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' with a checksum of 0x060bee91
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' with a checksum of 0xe2219ccf
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x30ee5a34
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x44c7e8dd
.
.
.
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\' ... 5 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' ... 23 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' ... 154 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' ... 61 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' ... 660 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' ... 1976 files
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\' ... 1 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' ... 403 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' ... 41 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' ... 685 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' ... 46 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' ... 373 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' ... 1488 files
.
.
.
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'hellraiser' referenced by model 'HellRaiserXA.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'bansheeparts' referenced by model 'HellRaiserXA.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274

Edit: My WiH checksums seem to match those in the troubleshooting thread.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 14, 2010, 04:22:23 pm
Your bp-visuals1.vp is either corrupted or out of date. You DID update your AoA, didn't you?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Aardwolf on August 14, 2010, 04:27:47 pm
Your bp-visuals1.vp is either corrupted or out of date. You DID update your AoA, didn't you?

Hm, looks like that single VP might have slipped past me; it says it was last modified in February, versus the rest which were last modified in August. Will update now.

Edit: while that downloads curse you slow internet!, are you sure that vp contains the textures "hellraiser" and "bansheeparts" ? The changes listed in the update post suggest otherwise.

Edit the Second: My bad. Looks like it was indeed in that vp. And apparently I had already downloaded it but somehow neglected to extract it. It's working now.

Still, the listed changes definitely do not list anything about those textures.  :ick:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Nissan on August 14, 2010, 05:47:48 pm
So I ran into an issue while replaying Delenda Est via the mission simulator.

Spoiler:
Toward the end, after the Imperiuse took out the Katana and around the time it blasted the Altan Orde, the mission ended abruptly. I'm not sure if it was immediately before, during, or immediately after the time the Altan Orde was destroyed since I was flying back to the Indus at the time, but I got sent to the debriefing screen and received a "no debriefing available" message. Without digging through the mission file itself, I'd guess that's when the second checkpoint kicks in, so maybe it's tied to that?

Not sure if this had any impact, but during the mission I had attempted to take out the Carthage beam that targets the Hanuman. Once I (with unexpected help from the frigates) got the beam down to 17%, it wouldn't drop any further. After the beam took out the Hanuman and the Imperiuse arrived, I launched one last Slammer at the beam and destroyed it, then went back to protect the Indus.

Sorry if this has been mentioned before.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 05:51:16 pm
Are you on the latest patch? That issue should have been resolved - if it hasn't I need to take another look at it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Nissan on August 14, 2010, 10:07:44 pm
By latest patch, you meant the latest version of bp2-core.vp, right? I hadn't done that yet, so maybe that was it...

Trouble is, updating that file seems to have created a new issue. After I start up the game, it says the mod has generated 48 active warnings, and when I try to load Delenda Est it crashes when I go to the loadout screen. I tried another mission at random (Darkest Hour) and that one broke while trying to load the command briefing.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 10:09:33 pm
By latest patch, you meant the latest version of bp2-core.vp, right? I hadn't done that yet, so maybe that was it...

Trouble is, updating that file seems to have created a new issue. After I start up the game, it says the mod has generated 48 active warnings, and when I try to load Delenda Est it crashes when I go to the loadout screen. I tried another mission at random (Darkest Hour) and that one broke while trying to load the command briefing.

Debug log, please. Sounds like a somewhat borked install or bad download.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 14, 2010, 10:10:37 pm
i know this has been addressed before, but i can't find it again for the solution.  after getting the patch (i actually just redownloaded everything from modDB), i'm getting the "no debreifing for *mission name* and "you cannot accept, you failed" on the first mission.  I lost one of the civies in the convoy, but didn't fail.  debug log needed?  i checked hash on all the VP files after downloading.

EDIT: Played again with debug build, did not reproduce.  I did save all ships this time though.  Is there maybe a missing briefing for whatever certain set of circumstances I hit that time?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Infamus on August 14, 2010, 10:33:00 pm
hey Aardwolf, what is that awesome model viewer you are using?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: blowfish on August 14, 2010, 10:36:13 pm
That's the lab.  Press F3 from the mainhall to get to it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 10:46:08 pm
i know this has been addressed before, but i can't find it again for the solution.  after getting the patch (i actually just redownloaded everything from modDB), i'm getting the "no debreifing for *mission name* and "you cannot accept, you failed" on the first mission.  I lost one of the civies in the convoy, but didn't fail.  debug log needed?  i checked hash on all the VP files after downloading.

EDIT: Played again with debug build, did not reproduce.  I did save all ships this time though.  Is there maybe a missing briefing for whatever certain set of circumstances I hit that time?

It's very possible. *sigh* Will try to fix 'er up.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 14, 2010, 10:57:18 pm
while you're at it....

in collateral damage, you can't call in support even after the jamming stops.  unless that was intentional.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Nissan on August 14, 2010, 10:57:56 pm
Debug log, please. Sounds like a somewhat borked install or bad download.

Here it is.

Code: [Select]
==========================================================================
DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning
categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved.
==========================================================================
FreeSpace version: 3.6.12
Passed cmdline options:
  -env
  -missile_lighting
  -glow
  -nomotiondebris
  -spec
  -normal
  -3dshockwave
  -ballistic_gauge
  -dualscanlines
  -rearm_timer
  -targetinfo
  -3dwarp
  -warp_flash
  -snd_preload
  -mod blueplanet2,blueplanet,mediavps_3612
  -window
Building file index...
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0x60465ead
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x24b50f90
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x5d4c1bfb
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x8fea63ef
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0xcc452f9d
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' with a checksum of 0x060bee91
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' with a checksum of 0xe2219ccf
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x7e75407b
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x44c7e8dd
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\a_subspace.vp' with a checksum of 0x02b13584
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\FS2OGGcutscenepack.vp' with a checksum of 0x84396e99
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\LSNebPlusFS2Missions.vp' with a checksum of 0x775e7c1b
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\multi-mission-pack.vp' with a checksum of 0x377695e0
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\multi-voice-pack.vp' with a checksum of 0xd50e7442
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\root_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xce10d76c
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\smarty_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xddeb3b1e
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x164fe65a
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xa11d56f1
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\stu_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd77da83a
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango1_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x4c25221e
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango2_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x86920b82
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango3_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x705e8d71
Found root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\warble_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd85c305d
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\' ... 36 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' ... 154 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' ... 61 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' ... 660 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' ... 1976 files
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\' ... 1 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' ... 41 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' ... 685 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' ... 46 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' ... 400 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' ... 1488 files
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps_3612\' ... 0 files
Searching root 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\' ... 368 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\a_subspace.vp' ... 63 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\FS2OGGcutscenepack.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\LSNebPlusFS2Missions.vp' ... 198 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\multi-mission-pack.vp' ... 110 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\multi-voice-pack.vp' ... 307 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\root_fs2.vp' ... 157 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\smarty_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_fs2.vp' ... 3027 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' ... 1337 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\stu_fs2.vp' ... 2355 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango1_fs2.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango2_fs2.vp' ... 15 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\tango3_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'C:\Games\FreeSpace2\warble_fs2.vp' ... 52 files
Searching root 'e:\' ... 0 files
Found 28 roots and 13599 files.
AutoLang: Language auto-detection successful...
Setting language to English
Initializing OpenAL...
  Using 'Generic Software' as OpenAL sound device...
  OpenAL Vendor     : Creative Labs Inc.
  OpenAL Renderer   : Software
  OpenAL Version    : 1.1

... OpenAL successfully initialized!
Initializing OpenGL graphics device at 1280x800 with 32-bit color...
  Initializing WGL...
  Requested WGL Video values = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  Actual WGL Video values    = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  OpenGL Vendor     : NVIDIA Corporation
  OpenGL Renderer   : GeForce 8200M G/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW!
  OpenGL Version    : 3.0.0

  Using extension "GL_EXT_fog_coord".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_multitexture".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_add".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_compression".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_combine".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_draw_range_elements".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_framebuffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_rectangle".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_bgra".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_cube_map".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_point_sprite".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shading_language_100".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shader_objects".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_shader".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_fragment_shader".
  Using extension "GL_NV_vertex_program3".
  Found special extension function "wglSwapIntervalEXT".

  Initializing Shaders Manager...
  Loading and compiling main shaders...
    Compiling main shader ->  null-v.sdr (null-v.sdr) / null-f.sdr (null-f.sdr) ...
      Shader file(s) (null-v.sdr / null-f.sdr) not found!
      Shader in_error!  Disabling GLSL!
  Shaders Manager initialized.

  Max texture units: 4 (4)
  Max elements vertices: 1048576
  Max elements indices: 1048576
  Max texture size: 8192x8192
  Can use compressed textures: YES
  Texture compression available: YES
  Using trilinear texture filter.
... OpenGL init is complete!
Size of bitmap info = 760 KB
Size of bitmap extra info = 52 bytes
ANI cursorweb with size 24x24 (25.0% wasted)
GRAPHICS: Initializing default colors...
SCRIPTING: Beginning initialization sequence...
SCRIPTING: Beginning Lua initialization...
LUA: Opening LUA state...
LUA: Initializing base Lua libraries...
LUA: Beginning ADE initialization
ADE: Initializing enumeration constants...
ADE: Assigning Lua session...
SCRIPTING: Beginning main hook parse sequence....
Wokka!  Error opening file (scripting.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'scripting.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-tcard-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-stupid-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-csc-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-betty-sct.tbm' ...
SCRIPTING: Inititialization complete.
SCRIPTING: Splash screen overrides checked
SCRIPTING: Splash hook has been run
SCRIPTING: Splash screen conditional hook has been run
Using high memory settings...
Wokka!  Error opening file (interface.tbl)!
WMCGUI: Unable to parse 'interface.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-sdf.tbm' ...
ANI 2_radar1 with size 209x170 (33.6% wasted)
Windows reported 16 joysticks, we found 1
Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-mfl.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-mfl.tbm' ...
Wokka!  Error opening file (armor.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'armor.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-amr.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wxp.tbm' ...
BMPMAN: Found EFF (explo3.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (HFlakExp.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp06b.eff) with 92 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (bomb_flare.eff) with 69 frames at 20 fps.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wep.tbm' ...
WARNING: "For 'MS_Impact', 3 of 4 LODs are missing!" at weapons.cpp:206
WARNING: "For 'Mekhu_Impact', 3 of 4 LODs are missing!" at weapons.cpp:206
WARNING: "For 'Kayser_Impact', 3 of 4 LODs are missing!" at weapons.cpp:206
WARNING: "For 'Subach_Impact', 3 of 4 LODs are missing!" at weapons.cpp:206
WARNING: "For 'exp04', 3 of 4 LODs are missing!" at weapons.cpp:206
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
Freeing all existing models...

EDIT: I think I figured out what might be the issue. If it is what I think it is, I'm an idiot. Hang on...

EDIT 2: Okay, yeah, this seems to have fixed it. So when I first installed the new mediavps, I renamed the folder from 'mediavps_3612' to just 'mediavps', and I changed the mod.ini file in the blueplanet2 folder accordingly. When I reinstalled the core files, it brought back the old mod.ini file that drew from the 'mediavps_3612' folder, which no longer existed on my computer.

Anyway, fixed the inconsistency, and the game didn't throw any warnings when it started up. I'll play through a couple missions to make sure it's in good shape though.

(While I'm feeling dumb, though, I might as well ask: is it cool if I change the 'mediavps_3612' folder to just 'mediavps' so I don't have to change the mod.ini file for every campaign I have, or would it be better to leave it as is?)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 11:14:20 pm
while you're at it....

in collateral damage, you can't call in support even after the jamming stops.  unless that was intentional.

There's unfortunately no way to change support availability mid-mission.

while you're at it....

in collateral damage, you can't call in support even after the jamming stops.  unless that was intentional.

There's unfortunately no way to change support availability mid-mission.



UNLESS THERE IS

stand by
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 14, 2010, 11:28:57 pm
there is?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 14, 2010, 11:33:40 pm
isn't there that SEXP to set support ship?
the one that lets them be launched from capships.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 14, 2010, 11:35:05 pm
isn't there that SEXP to set support ship?
the one that lets them be launched from capships.

It appears that set-support-ship can in fact overwrite the mission support ship flags, which means we can use it here!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 14, 2010, 11:36:45 pm
hooray
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 15, 2010, 04:03:57 am
We need a thread for FRED tricks like these. I remember stumbling across this a long time ago, then forgetting about it.

[EDIT since I don't want to double post]: Where is the "icarus2" track (the fiction viewer one) from? I can't find it in credits.tbl.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Darius on August 15, 2010, 09:20:31 am
It's a quick piano version of Michael McCann's Icarus that I did. Since it was done by a team member, it wasn't listed in the credits.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 15, 2010, 12:18:50 pm
oh and the spoiler? hint: what are the default key bindings?
The keybinds are for sending messages on multiplayer, I still don't get it.

Oh boy...where'd those radar icons go...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 15, 2010, 12:49:23 pm
BP radar icons can be found here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70841.0
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 15, 2010, 01:04:55 pm
Dur, I was on the wrong thread entirely. :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IvKir on August 15, 2010, 04:05:58 pm
Can you help me? I got OpenFS latest, and first BP, but i got some troble in game.

When i start game, in pre-brifing (i mean before mission start), i can't click continue.

Also, i get this message: "Could not load in 2_CommandBrief-mb!
<no module>! KiFastSystemCallRet
<no module>! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
"

How can i fix it?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 15, 2010, 04:11:47 pm
Can you help me? I got OpenFS latest, and first BP, but i got some troble in game.

When i start game, in pre-brifing (i mean before mission start), i can't click continue.

Also, i get this message: "Could not load in 2_CommandBrief-mb!
<no module>! KiFastSystemCallRet
<no module>! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>
"

How can i fix it?

Should be an easy fix.

First, turn up your resolution in the launcher; I bet it's stuck at 640x480.

Second, please go to the Troubleshooting forum, read the last post in the FAQ, and then generate and post a debug log for us.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IvKir on August 15, 2010, 04:31:52 pm
It's not resolution. I tested on 1024x786 and 1280x1024

Code: [Select]
"==========================================================================
DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning
categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved.
==========================================================================
FreeSpace version: 3.6.12
Passed cmdline options:
  -spec_exp 8.2
  -spec_static 3.5
  -spec_point 8.6
  -spec_tube 1.0
  -ambient_factor 70
  -env
  -mipmap
  -missile_lighting
  -glow
  -spec
  -3dshockwave
  -dualscanlines
  -orbradar
  -rearm_timer
  -targetinfo
  -3dwarp
  -ship_choice_3d
  -weapon_choice_3d
  -warp_flash
  -snd_preload
  -mod blueplanet2,blueplanet,mediavps_3612
Building file index...
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x2fa0cebd
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0x60465ead
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x24b50f90
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x5d4c1bfb
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x8fea63ef
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-adv-core.vp' with a checksum of 0x2851edb0
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' with a checksum of 0x1541da12
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' with a checksum of 0xcc452f9d
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' with a checksum of 0x060bee91
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' with a checksum of 0xe2219ccf
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' with a checksum of 0x7e75407b
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' with a checksum of 0x44c7e8dd
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\multi-mission-pack.vp' with a checksum of 0x377695e0
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\multi-voice-pack.vp' with a checksum of 0xd50e7442
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\root_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xce10d76c
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\smarty_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xddeb3b1e
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\sparky_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x164fe65a
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xa11d56f1
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\stu_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd77da83a
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\tango1_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x4c25221e
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\tango2_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x86920b82
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\tango3_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x705e8d71
Found root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\warble_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd85c305d
Searching root 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet2\' ... 35 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet2\bp2-adv-visuals.vp' ... 23 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet2\bp2-audio1.vp' ... 154 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet2\bp2-core.vp' ... 61 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals1.vp' ... 660 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet2\bp2-visuals2.vp' ... 1976 files
Searching root 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\' ... 28 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-adv-core.vp' ... 2 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-adv-visuals.vp' ... 403 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-audio1.vp' ... 41 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-audio2.vp' ... 685 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-core.vp' ... 46 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-visuals1.vp' ... 400 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\blueplanet\bp-visuals2.vp' ... 1488 files
Searching root 'F:\games\FSO-clean\mediavps_3612\' ... 0 files
Searching root 'F:\games\FSO-clean\' ... 116 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\multi-mission-pack.vp' ... 110 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\multi-voice-pack.vp' ... 307 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\root_fs2.vp' ... 157 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\smarty_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\sparky_fs2.vp' ... 3027 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' ... 1337 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\stu_fs2.vp' ... 2355 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\tango1_fs2.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\tango2_fs2.vp' ... 15 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\tango3_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'F:\games\FSO-clean\warble_fs2.vp' ... 52 files
Found 27 roots and 13530 files.
AutoLang: Language auto-detection successful...
Setting language to English
Initializing OpenAL...
  Using 'Generic Hardware' as OpenAL sound device...
  OpenAL Vendor     : Creative Labs Inc.
  OpenAL Renderer   : Software
  OpenAL Version    : 1.1

... OpenAL successfully initialized!
Initializing OpenGL graphics device at 1024x768 with 32-bit color...
  Initializing WGL...
  Requested WGL Video values = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  Actual WGL Video values    = R: 8, G: 8, B: 8, depth: 32, double-buffer: 1
  OpenGL Vendor     : NVIDIA Corporation
  OpenGL Renderer   : GeForce 7600 GT/PCI/SSE2
  OpenGL Version    : 2.1.2

  Using extension "GL_EXT_fog_coord".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_multitexture".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_add".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_compression".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_env_combine".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_draw_range_elements".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_framebuffer_object".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_rectangle".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_bgra".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_texture_cube_map".
  Using extension "GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_point_sprite".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shading_language_100".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_shader_objects".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_vertex_shader".
  Using extension "GL_ARB_fragment_shader".
  Using extension "GL_NV_vertex_program3".
  Found special extension function "wglSwapIntervalEXT".

  Initializing Shaders Manager...
  Loading and compiling main shaders...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (null-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (null-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (b-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (b-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (b-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (bg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lb-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lbse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfb-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lf-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfe-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (lfe-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lfbse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (null-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lg-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgs-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (l-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (ls-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lgse-f.sdr) ...
    Compiling main shader ->  main-v.sdr (le-v.sdr) / main-f.sdr (lse-f.sdr) ...
  Shaders Manager initialized.

  Max texture units: 4 (16)
  Max elements vertices: 1048576
  Max elements indices: 1048576
  Max texture size: 4096x4096
  Can use compressed textures: YES
  Texture compression available: YES
  Using trilinear texture filter.
  Using GLSL for model rendering.
  Shader Version: 1.20 NVIDIA via Cg compiler
... OpenGL init is complete!
Size of bitmap info = 760 KB
Size of bitmap extra info = 52 bytes
ANI cursorweb with size 24x24 (25.0% wasted)
GRAPHICS: Initializing default colors...
SCRIPTING: Beginning initialization sequence...
SCRIPTING: Beginning Lua initialization...
LUA: Opening LUA state...
LUA: Initializing base Lua libraries...
LUA: Beginning ADE initialization
ADE: Initializing enumeration constants...
ADE: Assigning Lua session...
SCRIPTING: Beginning main hook parse sequence....
Wokka!  Error opening file (scripting.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'scripting.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-tcard-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-stupid-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-csc-sct.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-betty-sct.tbm' ...
SCRIPTING: Inititialization complete.
SCRIPTING: Splash screen overrides checked
SCRIPTING: Splash hook has been run
SCRIPTING: Splash screen conditional hook has been run
Using high memory settings...
Wokka!  Error opening file (interface.tbl)!
WMCGUI: Unable to parse 'interface.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-sdf.tbm' ...
ANI 2_radar1 with size 209x170 (33.6% wasted)
Windows reported 16 joysticks, we found 0
Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-mus.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-mfl.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-advanced-mfl.tbm' ...
WARNING: "Muzzle flash "BP_Cmuzzle_tiny" already exists!  Using existing entry instead." at muzzleflash.cpp:164
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-mfl.tbm' ...
Wokka!  Error opening file (armor.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'armor.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-amr.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wxp.tbm' ...
BMPMAN: Found EFF (explo3.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (HFlakExp.eff) with 48 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp06b.eff) with 92 frames at 22 fps.
BMPMAN: Found EFF (bomb_flare.eff) with 69 frames at 20 fps.
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-wep.tbm' ...
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'MS_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Mekhu_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Mekhu_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Kayser_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Kayser_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Subach_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Subach_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Subach_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Subach_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "For 'exp04', 3 of 4 LODs are missing!" at weapons.cpp:206
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'capflash' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'MS_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-advanced-wep.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-wep.tbm' ...
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Mekhu_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Shivan_Impact01' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Kayser_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Vapula_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Akheton_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Kayser_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'MS_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'MS_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'MS_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'MS_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'MS_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Prometheus_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Prometheus_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Prometheus_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'MS_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'Kayser_Impact' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at weapons.cpp:180
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-aip.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-aip.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-obt.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-shp.tbm' ...
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class GTF Aurora" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class GTF Kulas" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class GTF Comanche" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class GTF Seminole" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class GTF Cherokee" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class GTB Yurok" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class GTB Navajo" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class GTC Hyperion" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class GTCv Chimera" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class GTCv Bellerophon" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class GTD Titan" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class GTD Raynor" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class GTL Anemoi" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class Orion Refit" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class Alliance Jump Gate" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class Spacesuit" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class SJ Dante" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class Vishnan Preserver" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class Vishnan Arbiter" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class Vishnan Sacred Keeper" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class Vishnan Missionary" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class Vishnan Preacher" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class Vishnan Seeker" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name LightArmor specified for hull in ship class Vishnan Inquisitor" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name MediumArmor specified for hull in ship class Vishnan Protector" at ship.cpp:2042
WARNING: "Invalid armor name HeavyArmor specified for hull in ship class UEFg Karuna" at ship.cpp:2042
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-shp.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp-str.tbm' ...
TBM  =>  Starting parse of 'bp2-str.tbm' ...
loading animated cursor "cursor"
Ships.tbl is : VALID
Weapons.tbl is : VALID
cfile_init() took 426
Got event GS_EVENT_GAME_INIT (49) in state NOT A VALID STATE (0)
Got event GS_EVENT_MAIN_MENU (0) in state GS_STATE_INITIAL_PLAYER_SELECT (37)
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Exit in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Pilot in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Continue in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Tech in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Option in main hall
WARNING!, Could not load door anim 2_Campaign in main hall
Got event GS_EVENT_NEW_CAMPAIGN (26) in state GS_STATE_MAIN_MENU (1)
Got event GS_EVENT_START_GAME (1) in state GS_STATE_MAIN_MENU (1)
=================== STARTING LEVEL LOAD ==================
Someone passed an extension to bm_load for file '2_LoadingBGM01.png'
BMPMAN: Found EFF (2_Loading.eff) with 14 frames at 15 fps.
Starting model page in...
Beginning level bitmap paging...
Loading warp model
 -1
SHOCKWAVE =>  Loading default shockwave model...
Loading model 'shockwave.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'shockwave.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xa85bec39, IBX checksum: 0xbf8649d9 -- "shockwave.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'shockwave3d' referenced by model 'shockwave.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
Model shockwave.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
SHOCKWAVE =>  Default model load: SUCCEEDED!!
MISSION LOAD: 'bp2-01.fs2'
Hmmm... Extension passed to mission_load...
Using callsign: Brie
Using callsign: Kassim
Using callsign: Laporte
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 11th Tactical Assault
Using callsign: 11th Tactical Assault
Using callsign: 101st Sidewinders
Using callsign: 101st Sidewinders
Using callsign: 101st Sidewinders
Using callsign: 11th Tactical Assault
Using callsign: 103rd Archers
Using callsign: 103rd Archers
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 42nd Pythons
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 500th Helldivers
Using callsign: 103rd Archers
Using callsign: 103rd Archers
Using callsign: 101st Sidewinders
Starting mission message count : 292
Ending mission message count : 296
WARNING: "Unable to load sun glow bitmap: 'SunGlow'!" at starfield.cpp:2455
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'SolCorona001'!" at starfield.cpp:2469
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'SolCorona002'!" at starfield.cpp:2469
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'Corona003'!" at starfield.cpp:2469
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'Corona004'!" at starfield.cpp:2469
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'Corona005'!" at starfield.cpp:2469
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'Corona006'!" at starfield.cpp:2469
Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices
Loading model 'FtUhlan.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'FtUhlan.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x6ac9794d, IBX checksum: 0x0c7ebe69 -- "FtUhlan.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'glass' referenced by model 'FtUhlan.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'Teal_Glow' referenced by model 'FtUhlan.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'Red_Herc_Glow' referenced by model 'FtUhlan.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
Submodel 'Uhland' is detail level 3 of 'Uhlana'
Submodel 'Uhlanc' is detail level 2 of 'Uhlana'
Submodel 'Uhlanb' is detail level 1 of 'Uhlana'
Loading model 'Torrent.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'Torrent.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x29fb97c8, IBX checksum: 0x1d3431a4 -- "Torrent.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'ctile4' referenced by model 'Torrent.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'ctile4' referenced by model 'Torrent.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'tcov1' referenced by model 'Torrent.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'warnsrp' referenced by model 'Torrent.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'yellow_glow2_small' referenced by model 'Torrent.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'Yellow_glow' referenced by model 'Torrent.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'yellow_glow' referenced by model 'Torrent.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'yellow_glow' referenced by model 'Torrent.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'yellow_glow' referenced by model 'Torrent.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'red_herc_glow' referenced by model 'Torrent.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'red_herc_glow' referenced by model 'Torrent.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
Submodel 'CRUISERHULLb' is detail level 1 of 'CRUISERHULLa'
Allocating space for at least 25 new ship subsystems ...  a total of 200 is now available (25 in-use).
Loading model 'fighter2t-02.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'fighter2t-02.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xd88cd2a1, IBX checksum: 0xf1dc10ae -- "fighter2t-02.pof"
Submodel 'hercb' is detail level 1 of 'herca'
Submodel 'hercd' is detail level 3 of 'herca'
Submodel 'hercc' is detail level 2 of 'herca'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster03b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster03a'
Submodel 'thruster03c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster03a'
Submodel 'thruster05b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster05a'
Submodel 'thruster05c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster05a'
Submodel 'thruster06b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster06a'
Submodel 'thruster06c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster06a'
Submodel 'thruster04b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster04a'
Submodel 'thruster04c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster04a'
Submodel 'thruster02b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster02c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster02a'
Loading model 'fighter2t-05.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'fighter2t-05.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x43698f32, IBX checksum: 0x1100c41c -- "fighter2t-05.pof"
Submodel 'fighter2t-05b' is detail level 1 of 'fighter2t-05a'
Submodel 'fighter2t-05c' is detail level 2 of 'fighter2t-05a'
Submodel 'fighter2t-05d' is detail level 3 of 'fighter2t-05a'
Submodel 'thruster04b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster04a'
Submodel 'thruster04c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster04a'
Submodel 'thruster02b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster02c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster03b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster03a'
Submodel 'thruster03c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster03a'
Loading model 'gate.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'gate.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x41681466, IBX checksum: 0x02434415 -- "gate.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'tcov7' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'tcov1' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'install01-02' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'capital01-04' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'tcov6' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'doctile5' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'vortexa', believed to be in ship gate.pof
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'path01', believed to be in ship gate.pof
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'green_glow2_small' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'green_glow2_small' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'red_herc_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'red_herc_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'red_herc_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'red_herc_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'red_herc_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'green_glow2_small' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'green_glow2_small' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'red_herc_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'green_glow2_small' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'green_glow2_small' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'blue_glow4' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'Teal_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'blue_glow4' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'blue_glow4' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'Teal_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'Teal_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'blue_glow4' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'Teal_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'blue_glow4' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'yellow_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'yellow_glow' referenced by model 'gate.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
Loading model 'kadmos.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'kadmos.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x922ba49f, IBX checksum: 0xb72b27e1 -- "kadmos.pof"
Loading model 'medliner.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'medliner.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x867feedb, IBX checksum: 0x7606e0b3 -- "medliner.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'install01-02' referenced by model 'medliner.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'doctile4' referenced by model 'medliner.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'doctile1' referenced by model 'medliner.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'Bridge', believed to be in ship medliner.pof
Loading model 'liberty.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'liberty.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x9833cc0c, IBX checksum: 0x156880b4 -- "liberty.pof"
Potential problem found: Unrecognized subsystem type 'fighterbay01', believed to be in ship liberty.pof
Submodel 'detail-1b' is detail level 1 of 'detail-1a'
Submodel 'detail-1c' is detail level 2 of 'detail-1a'
Loading model 'Bomber2T-03.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'Bomber2T-03.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xd7f134d9, IBX checksum: 0x91e20081 -- "Bomber2T-03.pof"
Submodel 'hercb' is detail level 1 of 'herca'
Submodel 'hercc' is detail level 2 of 'herca'
Submodel 'hercd' is detail level 3 of 'herca'
Submodel 'thruster02b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster02c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster03b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster03a'
Submodel 'thruster03c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster03a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'pfighter01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'pfighter01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xbc3ad812, IBX checksum: 0x45d67d8c -- "pfighter01.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'Red_Herc_Glow' referenced by model 'pfighter01.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'Teal_Glow' referenced by model 'pfighter01.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01d' is detail level 3 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'fgstrikebmb.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'fgstrikebmb.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x2c385027, IBX checksum: 0x949c2e01 -- "fgstrikebmb.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'glass' referenced by model 'fgstrikebmb.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'red_glow_small' referenced by model 'fgstrikebmb.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'green_glow1_small' referenced by model 'fgstrikebmb.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'yellow_glow_small' referenced by model 'fgstrikebmb.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01d' is detail level 3 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster02b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster02c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster02d' is detail level 3 of 'thruster02a'
Loading model 'bomber2t-01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'bomber2t-01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x509efd5d, IBX checksum: 0xf0d71abc -- "bomber2t-01.pof"
Submodel 'bomb0x-d' is detail level 3 of 'bomb0x-a'
Submodel 'bomb0x-c' is detail level 2 of 'bomb0x-a'
Submodel 'bomb0x-b' is detail level 1 of 'bomb0x-a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster02c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster02b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster02a'
Loading model 'fighter2t-03.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'fighter2t-03.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x7c4233bb, IBX checksum: 0x2c32cf19 -- "fighter2t-03.pof"
Submodel 'valkc' is detail level 2 of 'valka'
Submodel 'valkd' is detail level 3 of 'valka'
Submodel 'valkb' is detail level 1 of 'valka'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster02c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster02b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster02a'
Loading model 'navbuoy.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'navbuoy.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xb7295349, IBX checksum: 0xe6296d0e -- "navbuoy.pof"
OpenGL: Created 512x512 FBO!
ANI 2_lock1 with size 56x53 (17.2% wasted)
ANI 2_lockspin with size 100x100 (21.9% wasted)
ANI 2_lead1 with size 26x26 (18.8% wasted)
ANI 2_energy2 with size 86x96 (25.0% wasted)
ANI toggle1 with size 57x20 (37.5% wasted)
ANI weapons1 with size 126x20 (37.5% wasted)
ANI 2_toparc1 with size 252x60 (6.3% wasted)
ANI 2_toparc2 with size 35x24 (25.0% wasted)
ANI 2_toparc3 with size 41x29 (9.4% wasted)
ANI 2_leftarc with size 103x252 (1.6% wasted)
ANI 2_rightarc1 with size 103x252 (1.6% wasted)
ANI 2_reticle1 with size 40x24 (25.0% wasted)
ANI targhit1 with size 31x21 (34.4% wasted)
ANI energy1 with size 12x41 (35.9% wasted)
ANI targetview1 with size 137x156 (39.1% wasted)
ANI targetview2 with size 4x96 (25.0% wasted)
ANI targetview3 with size 7x20 (37.5% wasted)
ANI damage1 with size 148x25 (21.9% wasted)
ANI support1 with size 108x24 (25.0% wasted)
ANI objective1 with size 149x21 (34.4% wasted)
ANI wingman1 with size 71x53 (17.2% wasted)
ANI wingman2 with size 35x53 (17.2% wasted)
ANI wingman3 with size 14x53 (17.2% wasted)
ANI netlag1 with size 29x30 (6.3% wasted)
ANI head1 with size 164x132 (48.4% wasted)
ANI time1 with size 47x23 (28.1% wasted)
Loading model 'htsb.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'htsb.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x817cd0e6, IBX checksum: 0xb0b0e8b5 -- "htsb.pof"
Model htsb.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
Loading model 'ast03.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'ast03.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x6d9c8548, IBX checksum: 0x5a45972a -- "ast03.pof"
Submodel 'astb' is detail level 1 of 'asta'
Submodel 'astc' is detail level 2 of 'asta'
Loading model 'ast02.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'ast02.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xcb50099a, IBX checksum: 0x33fc7e46 -- "ast02.pof"
Submodel 'astb' is detail level 1 of 'asta'
Submodel 'astc' is detail level 2 of 'asta'
Submodel 'astd' is detail level 3 of 'asta'
Loading model 'ast01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'ast01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x52a0f68f, IBX checksum: 0x6f5be176 -- "ast01.pof"
Submodel 'astb' is detail level 1 of 'asta'
Submodel 'astc' is detail level 2 of 'asta'
Submodel 'astd' is detail level 3 of 'asta'
=================== STARTING LEVEL DATA LOAD ==================
Loading model 'support2t-01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'support2t-01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xdb916bfd, IBX checksum: 0xc0ea10ea -- "support2t-01.pof"
Submodel 'bodyb' is detail level 1 of 'bodya'
Submodel 'bodyc' is detail level 2 of 'bodya'
Submodel 'bodyd' is detail level 3 of 'bodya'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster02b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster02c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster02a'
Submodel 'thruster03b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster03a'
Submodel 'thruster03c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster03a'
Loading model 'support2v-01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'support2v-01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xb4ca2191, IBX checksum: 0x72cadd2d -- "support2v-01.pof"
Submodel 'hercb' is detail level 1 of 'herca'
Submodel 'hercc' is detail level 2 of 'herca'
Submodel 'hercd' is detail level 3 of 'herca'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'support01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'support01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x7a26cbbf, IBX checksum: 0xa4a3c026 -- "support01.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'tercoc01' referenced by model 'support01.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'glass' referenced by model 'support01.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'Yellow_glow' referenced by model 'support01.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'teal_glow' referenced by model 'support01.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'teal_glow' referenced by model 'support01.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
Allocating space for at least 104 new ship subsystems ...  a total of 400 is now available (174 in-use).
About to page in ships!
ANI shieldft-02 with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldft-03 with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldft-05 with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldbt-03 with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldbt-01 with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldkulas with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldRhea with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
ANI shieldlancer with size 112x93 (27.3% wasted)
Could not find a usable glow bitmap for 'Balor'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable glow bitmap (Subach_Glow) for weapon 'Balor'!" at weapons.cpp:2967
Could not find a usable glow bitmap for 'Vulcan'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable glow bitmap (Subach_Glow) for weapon 'Vulcan'!" at weapons.cpp:2967
Loading model 'avenger3.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'avenger3.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x8855f87f, IBX checksum: 0x27480536 -- "avenger3.pof"
Model avenger3.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
Could not find a usable glow bitmap for 'Maul'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable glow bitmap (Prometheus_Glow) for weapon 'Maul'!" at weapons.cpp:2967
Loading model 'VulcanGUN.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'VulcanGUN.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x67299b6b, IBX checksum: 0x7f7bc244 -- "VulcanGUN.pof"
Model VulcanGUN.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
Could not find a usable glow bitmap for 'Point Defense Turret'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable glow bitmap (Prometheus_Glow) for weapon 'Point Defense Turret'!" at weapons.cpp:2967
Could not find a usable particle spew bitmap for 'Burst Flak'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable particle spew bitmap (Cmuzzle_0001) for weapon 'Burst Flak'!" at weapons.cpp:3031
Loading model 'Blip.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'Blip.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x74e3d996, IBX checksum: 0xcc9bd461 -- "Blip.pof"
Submodel 'blipb' is detail level 1 of 'blipa'
Submodel 'blipc' is detail level 2 of 'blipa'
Submodel 'blipd' is detail level 3 of 'blipa'
Could not find a usable glow bitmap for 'UEF Light Turret'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable glow bitmap (CapTurret_Glow) for weapon 'UEF Light Turret'!" at weapons.cpp:2967
Could not find a usable glow bitmap for 'UEF Medium Turret'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable glow bitmap (CapTurret_Glow) for weapon 'UEF Medium Turret'!" at weapons.cpp:2967
Could not find a usable glow bitmap for 'UEF Heavy Turret'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable glow bitmap (CapTurret_Glow) for weapon 'UEF Heavy Turret'!" at weapons.cpp:2967
Could not find a usable glow bitmap for 'Mass Driver#Sanctus'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable glow bitmap (Maxim_Glow) for weapon 'Mass Driver#Sanctus'!" at weapons.cpp:2967
Could not find a usable particle spew bitmap for 'Mass Driver#Sanctus'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable particle spew bitmap (Particle_Yellow) for weapon 'Mass Driver#Sanctus'!" at weapons.cpp:3031
Could not find a usable glow bitmap for 'Gauss Cannon#Sanctus'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable glow bitmap (Maxim_Glow) for weapon 'Gauss Cannon#Sanctus'!" at weapons.cpp:2967
Could not find a usable particle spew bitmap for 'Gauss Cannon#Sanctus'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable particle spew bitmap (Particle_Blue) for weapon 'Gauss Cannon#Sanctus'!" at weapons.cpp:3031
Loading model 'rockeye.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'rockeye.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xf180b177, IBX checksum: 0xe6bac331 -- "rockeye.pof"
Submodel 'rockeye-b' is detail level 1 of 'rockeye-a'
Submodel 'rockeye-c' is detail level 2 of 'rockeye-a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'Tempest.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'Tempest.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x99e70c37, IBX checksum: 0x8bde2e21 -- "Tempest.pof"
Submodel 'realtempest-b' is detail level 1 of 'realtempest-a'
Submodel 'realtempest-c' is detail level 2 of 'realtempest-a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'NewHornet.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'NewHornet.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x0f07cd0b, IBX checksum: 0x07f68a54 -- "NewHornet.pof"
Submodel 'realhornet-b' is detail level 1 of 'realhornet-a'
Submodel 'realhornet-c' is detail level 2 of 'realhornet-a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'bombardier.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'bombardier.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x99891c8b, IBX checksum: 0xbe4be1af -- "bombardier.pof"
Submodel 'realhornet-b' is detail level 1 of 'realhornet-a'
Submodel 'realhornet-c' is detail level 2 of 'realhornet-a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'crossbow.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'crossbow.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x32caa81e, IBX checksum: 0x3d08480a -- "crossbow.pof"
Submodel 'realcrossbow-b' is detail level 1 of 'realcrossbow-a'
Submodel 'realcrossbow-c' is detail level 2 of 'realcrossbow-a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'stilettoII.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'stilettoII.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xeae5c02c, IBX checksum: 0xcfa495cf -- "stilettoII.pof"
Submodel 'stiletto2-b' is detail level 1 of 'stiletto2-a'
Submodel 'stiletto2-c' is detail level 2 of 'stiletto2-a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'belial.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'belial.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x6890e668, IBX checksum: 0x4b930da9 -- "belial.pof"
Submodel 'belialreal-b' is detail level 1 of 'belialreal-a'
Submodel 'belialreal-c' is detail level 2 of 'belialreal-a'
Submodel 'thruster01b' is detail level 1 of 'thruster01a'
Submodel 'thruster01c' is detail level 2 of 'thruster01a'
Loading model 'cmeasure01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'cmeasure01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xe5f32533, IBX checksum: 0x51a56331 -- "cmeasure01.pof"
Loading model 'Longbow.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'Longbow.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x9ed18a4a, IBX checksum: 0x818aa0f7 -- "Longbow.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'missile_flare' referenced by model 'Longbow.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
Loading model 'dirk1pod.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'dirk1pod.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xc39767db, IBX checksum: 0x2d4eeecd -- "dirk1pod.pof"
Model dirk1pod.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
Loading model 'InterceptorT.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'InterceptorT.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x8d57e22a, IBX checksum: 0xd6388146 -- "InterceptorT.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'missile_flare' referenced by model 'InterceptorT.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
Loading model 'DirkPodHC.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'DirkPodHC.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x1a57e9d9, IBX checksum: 0x77ce014e -- "DirkPodHC.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'warnsrp' referenced by model 'DirkPodHC.pof'" at modelread.cpp:2274
Model DirkPodHC.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
Loading model 'hellfire.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'hellfire.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x095d2434, IBX checksum: 0xc91c7cd7 -- "hellfire.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'missile_flare' referenced by model 'hellfire.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
Loading model 'hellfireEXT.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'hellfireEXT.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x80933ea9, IBX checksum: 0xf6a1f3ab -- "hellfireEXT.pof"
Model hellfireEXT.pof has a null moment of inertia!  (This is only a problem if the model is a ship.)
Could not find a usable particle spew bitmap for 'Warhammer#Sanctus'!
WARNING: "Could not find a usable particle spew bitmap (missilespew01) for weapon 'Warhammer#Sanctus'!" at weapons.cpp:3031
Loading model 'GBU-240.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'GBU-240.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0xb388876a, IBX checksum: 0x96cc6596 -- "GBU-240.pof"
WARNING: "Couldn't open texture 'missile_flare' referenced by model 'GBU-240.pof'" at modelread.cpp:1733
Loading model 'debris01.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'debris01.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x974f214b, IBX checksum: 0x4b30798e -- "debris01.pof"
Loading model 'debris02.pof'
IBX: Found a good IBX to read for 'debris02.pof'.
IBX-DEBUG => POF checksum: 0x8e0eed50, IBX checksum: 0x5ba55a34 -- "debris02.pof"
WARNING: "Unable to load sun glow bitmap: 'SunGlow'!" at starfield.cpp:2280
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'SolCorona001'!" at starfield.cpp:2294
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'SolCorona002'!" at starfield.cpp:2294
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'Corona003'!" at starfield.cpp:2294
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'Corona004'!" at starfield.cpp:2294
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'Corona005'!" at starfield.cpp:2294
WARNING: "Unable to load sun flare bitmap: 'Corona006'!" at starfield.cpp:2294
ASSERTION: "Mflash_info[i].blobs[idx].anim_id >= 0" at muzzleflash.cpp:207
Int3(): From c:\temp\fs2_final_export\code\globalincs\windebug.cpp at line 902"


here's log. Game crashed before i even get to the trouble point. Also, on start i get warning that the mod generated 66 error's on loading...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 15, 2010, 04:34:50 pm
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


 put that in code tags.  [ code] [ /code] (without spaces)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IvKir on August 15, 2010, 04:36:30 pm
Sorry, i just not so often write on forums
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 15, 2010, 04:43:39 pm
no problem, i know you had no way of knowing.  i was just screwing around, not yelling at you ;)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 15, 2010, 05:00:11 pm
Thank you, good sir, we'll have an answer for you soon.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 15, 2010, 05:04:30 pm
It's not resolution. I tested on 1024x786 and 1280x1024

here's log. Game crashed before i even get to the trouble point. Also, on start i get warning that the mod generated 66 error's on loading...

Your problem is that you do not have the 3.6.12 Mediavps installed correctly. They need to be in a folder named "mediavps_3612"
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 15, 2010, 09:47:28 pm
Self-quote ftl.
And I'm still curious about this:
FTFx Thor shield.ani and a weapon called TerSlashBlueAAA, with a very small beam and beamglow, this seems to hint at something.
I really wish to know if there's going to be any involvement with this ship.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 15, 2010, 10:10:50 pm
Self-quote ftl.
And I'm still curious about this:
FTFx Thor shield.ani and a weapon called TerSlashBlueAAA, with a very small beam and beamglow, this seems to hint at something.
I really wish to know if there's going to be any involvement with this ship.

TerSlashBlueAAA is an experimental next-gen antifighter weapon for Tev warships.

We have no plans for the Thor at the moment. We have too many ships to use in R2 as it is.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 15, 2010, 11:44:59 pm
So we are going to see new weapons on both sides, as well as new ships?
Damn, WiH2 feels as much of an 'upgrade' to WiH1 as AoA is to WiH1...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 15, 2010, 11:46:27 pm
So we are going to see new weapons on both sides, as well as new ships?
Damn, WiH2 feels as much of an 'upgrade' to WiH1 as AoA is to WiH1...

Well bear in mind you've already got basically all the new UEF ships in R2 sitting there in the techroom in R1 for you to read about. They just weren't used in the gameplay very heavily.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Flak on August 16, 2010, 02:43:58 am
Are there going to be something like jury-rigged UEF ships with salvaged/reverse-engineered beams?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IvKir on August 16, 2010, 03:27:06 am
Yep, it's worked. Thank you guy's. This mod is awesome!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SF-Junky on August 16, 2010, 05:48:35 am
I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but after I've finished WiH a few hours ago I simply must let this loose: I F***ING LOVE YOU GUYS! :D When I played Starcraft II, my reaction more like "hmph, okay this is supposed to be the great successor we've been waiting for for 12 years, yes?", but to BP2 it just "YEEEEHA, holy ****, this rocks!"

This is not a campaign, this is artwork. I love it. I adore it. You made me a fanboy once and for all. ;) This is simply... one hell of a masterpiece of what you can do whith FRED. I think I haven't been in love with a piece of science fiction since I first saw Babylon 5 completely a few years ago. People should be _ordered_ to play it once they gain fs_open.

If the second part and Blue Planet 3 are even one tenth as good as this then they are more than worth playing them. :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 17, 2010, 12:28:27 am
I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but after I've finished WiH a few hours ago I simply must let this loose: I F***ING LOVE YOU GUYS! :D When I played Starcraft II, my reaction more like "hmph, okay this is supposed to be the great successor we've been waiting for for 12 years, yes?", but to BP2 it just "YEEEEHA, holy ****, this rocks!"

This is not a campaign, this is artwork. I love it. I adore it. You made me a fanboy once and for all. ;) This is simply... one hell of a masterpiece of what you can do whith FRED. I think I haven't been in love with a piece of science fiction since I first saw Babylon 5 completely a few years ago. People should be _ordered_ to play it once they gain fs_open.

If the second part and Blue Planet 3 are even one tenth as good as this then they are more than worth playing them. :)

Thank you, good sir! Wonderful to hear.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scourge of Ages on August 17, 2010, 03:12:20 am
Sweet merciful cows, never in my wildest dreams (or nightmares) did I imagine that I would
Spoiler:
be dogfighting two ace AIs in Erinyes while Apocalyptica plays.
That was terrifying and exhilarating and sad and awesome and overall incredible.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IvKir on August 17, 2010, 04:51:32 am
Goddamit.... this is not awesome... Blue Planet: War in Heaven - it's something bigger and i don't get enough english word's to describe my... admiration. With even more impatience i await next part. You guy's ROCK!!!!!
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on August 17, 2010, 05:20:41 am
Played AoA and WiH over the past couple of days. Have to say, best campaigns I've played yet.

Love the design of the new capships on both sides, the political intrigue, the cutscenes, everything.

Keep up the good work guys.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Rhys on August 17, 2010, 08:53:43 am
It would be interesting in Part 2 to have a mission that takes place on Earth, but I'm not sure if that's entirely possible.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Nehemiah on August 17, 2010, 03:32:54 pm
Here's how to save the UEF:

1) Execute the Ubuntu elder sissies.
2) Install and reverse engineer beam cannons on your ships taken from GTVA wreckage.
3) Surrender to the GTVA (so the ships with the reverse engineered beams from step two cn actually go to good use.)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 17, 2010, 03:35:12 pm
This is how to save the human race :

1) Don't do anything of the above post.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Nehemiah on August 17, 2010, 03:40:17 pm
Because I play FS2 so I can watch metal explode and drool over weapon-turret laden destroyer models while driving Helios torpedos into them, I will always have to side with the GTVA.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on August 17, 2010, 03:52:23 pm
Mass drivers are so much cooler than beams, though.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 17, 2010, 03:53:23 pm
Yeah, watching a Solaris open up with all Arashis and all her missile turrets is a sight to behold.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 17, 2010, 03:56:41 pm
What do you mean by "open up" ? Is there some kind of animation ?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Nehemiah on August 17, 2010, 03:58:15 pm
I disagree with the missiles and mass drivers being cooler than beams.  I'm running on a laptop with an integrated graphics card that cannot handle all the projectiles used by UE ships.  Beams are easier for my computer's graphics card to handle.  All the projectiles end up becoming little squares with static inside them...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 17, 2010, 03:59:18 pm
What do you mean by "open up" ? Is there some kind of animation ?
He means firing weapons.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 17, 2010, 04:01:48 pm
Quote
Is there some kind of animation ?

Yes. The covers on the launch tubes open before firing, and there's a nice particle effect when they fire. Like so:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0020.png)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 17, 2010, 04:02:59 pm
if time/resources were spent on improving mass driver damage rather than reverse engineering beams, they would probably end up being superior weapons.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 17, 2010, 04:10:49 pm
Just wished the FSO animation code could handle translation correctly. Recoil would look awesome on those mass drivers !
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 17, 2010, 04:15:29 pm
if time/resources were spent on improving mass driver damage rather than reverse engineering beams, they would probably end up being superior weapons.

You know, at one point during development, those mass drivers had a better DPS than BGreens....
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 17, 2010, 04:21:50 pm
or maybe the UEF could develop a gunboat kind of class that mounts an ungodly amount of mass driver turrets but not a lot else.  such a ship could have a similar role to the chimera, but require more cover.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: T-LoW on August 17, 2010, 05:09:15 pm
Sorry to interfere the discussion - I'll make it quick:

Finished WiH p1 an hour ago. Still pretty speechless. And I thought Vassago's Dirge were the pinnacle of innovative campaign-creation this year. Some of the big game-companies can take a leaf out of this book.
I knew, I encountered something special when I read the letters "SCP" five years ago. Thank you for that great experience, HLP-Community. Especially those who reach for the stars and manage to make some of these mods and campaigns better than many of the big budget games coming out today. You all rock! Greets from Germany.

Thanks for the attention.

Now go on  :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scourge of Ages on August 17, 2010, 05:55:03 pm
On the topic of Vassago's Dirge, I noticed
Spoiler:
a creepy red nebula pshyco mission here and there both. Was this intentional, coincidental, or a side effect of having Axem on the team? Also, about the short-range subspace jump: same question.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 17, 2010, 05:57:06 pm
Axem was only hired after Vassago's Dirge was already complete; If there are story similarities, they are entirely coincidental.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scourge of Ages on August 17, 2010, 06:03:43 pm
Axem was only hired after Vassago's Dirge was already complete; If there are story similarities, they are entirely coincidental.
I was speaking more of presentation than story in this case, but I suppose your answer works just as well for that.  :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Axem on August 17, 2010, 06:20:02 pm
It's a coincidence too! I only joined after I had finished FREDding Vassago's Dirge and then I saw it and smirked. Great minds think a like, don't you think? ;)

Say didn't Transcend do it fir-
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 17, 2010, 08:21:52 pm
On the topic of Vassago's Dirge, I noticed
Spoiler:
a creepy red nebula pshyco mission here and there both. Was this intentional, coincidental, or a side effect of having Axem on the team? Also, about the short-range subspace jump: same question.

It's an homage to Transcend, actually.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 17, 2010, 09:06:24 pm
Besides, WiH's is more mindrape than the other two combined. :shaking:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 17, 2010, 10:53:36 pm
Besides, WiH's is more mindrape than the other two combined. :shaking:

What? You serious?
I don't know about you but I think Transcend's far creepier than WiH, if only for the atmosphere (being alone with no real allies with a voice pleading for help, as opposed to the voice telling you to help the side you're on win).

Hey, Transcend's basically a psychological horror story, while BP (and by extension WiH) is more "a bit of everything that's awesome" flavoured.

Also, red nebulas with black background are the creepiest and most atmospheric. :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 17, 2010, 10:55:18 pm
I certainly think the Transcend one was scarier.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 17, 2010, 11:23:16 pm
Depends on how you look at it, I guess. Usually, "horror stories" don't really do much for me- Transcend was creepy, but it's a horror campaign, so I guess I was "expecting it", if that makes any sense. WiH though- it's not a horror story. It's actually more like distilled awesome but that's beside the point. I'm hooked up to some psych evaluator talking to what passes for a therapist for around here. There's a weird value called "NGRI" which I think, from the literature, is "being contacted mindscrewed by Vishnans".

Then the psych dude starts talking about destiny and destruction and that I'll have to destroy the GTVA, and at first I'm all "WTF", because this is the last thing I'm expecting to happen. Then those insane flashes start, like I'm being communicated with at barely above the liminal threshold. Then I find myself in a blood-red nebula, talking to this "Ken" dude who I realize is not a Vishnan.

I'm talking to a goddamn SHIVAN.

This is the species that destroyed Vasuda Prime and would have glassed Earth. The species that, given the chance, would probably wipe out every living thing in our universe. Talking to the Vishnans is creepy enough, but I'm being mind-screwed by THE SPECIES THAT WOULD DESTROY EVERYTHING I KNOW IN AN INSTANT.

The Transcendant is creepy enough. He's powerful, insane and out of control. The mind-screw potential is all there as well. But he at least wants to be stopped. The Shivans have no such inhibitions.

Then I get to the cargo containers. They're apparently the communication between the Shivan and myself, so there's a good chance I'll go insane just by reading them. Or something. (Which does sort of happen btw). So I sit there, reading insanely disjointed poetry while being watched by a Shivan... device thing which could rip my fighter apart. I'm pretty sure a frakking Sesame Street episode would be mindscrew if delivered in that format. It's like I'm in the company of the whole Sathanas fleet that destroyed Capella, and they're WATCHING ME.

 :shaking:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 18, 2010, 01:03:58 am
The Transcendant saw into the deepness of the universe. :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 18, 2010, 02:38:16 am
Perhaps the Transcendant is the 'pilot' of the Preserver, or the Dante's.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 18, 2010, 04:15:27 am
To be fair when Transcend came out there weren't all the technical goodies in. For example that big eye that flashed over the screen helps making that mission much creepier.

Spoiler:
Oh I didn't mention it before, but I loved it when the computer detected Laporte being agitated and asked wether the user wanted to see kitten pictures to calm down :lol:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: TrashMan on August 18, 2010, 05:14:38 am
Just finished the War in Heaven.

Spoiler:

Top-notch effort. Excellent FREDing, quality models and visuals, incredibly well-done cutscenes, brilliant music selection. From a technical standpoint, pure brilliance.

BUT (there's always a but, isn't it)...the story is killing it for me. The political background, the admirals and their maneuvers and plotting, the mission design - all are excellent. It's the background that seems to have a mix of all the things I hate.
Chosen One syndrome, prophetic visions, vishnians (they call themselves vishnias? Seriously, shivans is a codname given to the race..and the vishinan "name" magically matches?) and the Brahmas of old and all that business between them and the shivies. As ideas and concepts, I hate them in their very core with the blazing intensity of a million supernovas.

And the vibe I got...like some religious-political propaganda pamphlet. Seriously, I felt like the campaign was advertising this Unbutu and Buddhism or whatever.

It just looked like the psychological and religious mumbo-jumbo were added to create some false sense of depth. I found it boring frankly. If I wanted to read a novel, I would, so all those story part about what Naomi is doing or thinking - superfluous and not working well in the medium - at least not in the way it was presented.

Final verdict: 7/10
IF you don't have a problem with the above mentioned story elements - 9/10.

Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 18, 2010, 05:20:56 am
You must have hated AoA then. Most of those things mentioned took a backseat to the war.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 18, 2010, 05:44:40 am
Just finished the War in Heaven.

Spoiler:
Seriously, shivans is a codname given to the race..and the vishinan "name" magically matches?)

Spoiler:
Had you read the techroom, it would have become clear that the whole Vishnan/Brahman naming scheme was something the Vishnans did for Sam Bei's benefit.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 18, 2010, 09:42:57 am
you didn't even have to read the techroom for that if you played AoA.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Inglonias on August 18, 2010, 10:01:19 am
I have read some of this thread and have a few questions about what is being talked about

Spoiler:
1. I heard someone say that Noemi is hearing Shivans, not Vishnans. What evidence of this exists?

2. Who are Xinny and Zero? Are they those guys who disabled me in three seconds in that one mission?

A final note: Its hard for me to feel guilty for Noemi when she says she hates liking combat and then goes off and does it some more. Doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 18, 2010, 10:07:36 am
Spoiler:
1. I heard someone say that Noemi is hearing Shivans, not Vishnans. What evidence of this exists?

2. Who are Xinny and Zero? Are they those guys who disabled me in three seconds in that one mission?
Spoiler:
1. I think it fits in with the WiH is AoA inverted dynamic. Also it'd just be super mega awesome.

2. Xinny and Zero are the pilots that flew with you in "Into the Lion's Den" from the FS2 main campaign (along with Snipes). They return as the uber elite pilots in bp2-07 "My Brother, My Enemy" that fly Erinyes.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 18, 2010, 10:17:57 am
Quote
A final note: Its hard for me to feel guilty for Noemi when she says she hates liking combat and then goes off and does it some more. Doesn't make sense.
Spoiler:
It does. Just look at the dialogue in the very first mission. Somethign like "... I can't just sit around while those Jovians risk their lives for us ..."
So while she hates fighting and what it does to her, she's willing to pay that price to save the lives of innocents and comrades.
But that's nothing to feel guilty about. Maybe sad or sympathetic or pity, but not guilty.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 18, 2010, 10:35:00 am
I should've been specific to the letter when I was talking about the Ken mission only. :blah:
Sure, disappearing Freighters / Transports and fighters is freaky ****, but with Ken, the flashes of imagery made it clear that the pilot, Laporte; (You) is being royally ****ed with in the head.
Maybe it didn't have the auditoral dialogue hidden in the middle of a staticy mess like on Transcend, i.e: "Help me...HELP ME! PLEASE."
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 18, 2010, 10:58:01 am
Spoiler:
Flashing images is usually creepy enough, but the context in which they're presented makes it clear that Noemi is being mindscrewed at right above the liminal threshold. So it's anyone's guess as to what's going on below the liminal threshold. The fact that Noemi becomes a killing machine just reinforces that point: the Shivans have been manipulating her to force her to want to destroy the GTVA. She hates what she's become, because on a conscious level, she's still that child of Ubuntu- but that combat high makes a perfect breeding ground for Shivan "KILL KILL KILL" ideals.

And these are definitely Shivans she's talking to. I mean, "one side must be destroyed"? Does that sound like a Vishnan to anyone?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 18, 2010, 11:04:22 am
Destroying to preserve, on the other hand...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 18, 2010, 11:42:30 am
Just finished the War in Heaven.

Spoiler:

BUT (there's always a but, isn't it)...the story is killing it for me. The political background, the admirals and their maneuvers and plotting, the mission design - all are excellent.
Thank you!

Quote
It's the background that seems to have a mix of all the things I hate.

Actually, we thought about you during design, and there are some nods in m04 specifically designed to assuage your concerns.

Quote
Chosen One syndrome, prophetic visions, vishnians (they call themselves vishnias? Seriously, shivans is a codname given to the race..and the vishinan "name" magically matches?)

Sam Bei named the Vishnans; it was his call. The Vishnans plucked it from his brain.

Quote
and the Brahmas of old and all that business between them and the shivies.

Same there.

Quote
As ideas and concepts, I hate them in their very core with the blazing intensity of a million supernovas.

Really? If I'm not mistaken you're a big fan of Sword of the Stars, which includes ancient creator races (the Suul'Ka), psionics, and other fairly similar elements.

Quote
And the vibe I got...like some religious-political propaganda pamphlet. Seriously, I felt like the campaign was advertising this Unbutu and Buddhism or whatever.

Hrm. Why?

All that said I'm glad you enjoyed it.

A final note: Its hard for me to feel guilty for Noemi when she says she hates liking combat and then goes off and does it some more. Doesn't make sense.

Many drug addicts hate their addiction, but nonetheless: they're addicts.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Sara- on August 18, 2010, 03:57:13 pm
I was TENSED during the Ken mission. I was worried during the entire mission I'd get one of those 'screams with a scary face' like you see in those youtube scream traps.  :lol: Now they'll probably add that to WiH 2.  :(
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IvKir on August 18, 2010, 04:21:42 pm
On my experiance there was nothing... tense or scarry in Ken's mission. I fell... well, just uncomfortable. But, hey, i just replayed Dead Space only two-three day's before WiH, so i poses temporaly immunity for this kind of scary moments.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: utops on August 18, 2010, 06:10:55 pm
Spoiler:
Hate this campaign because of story and that hippie  pseudo psychological teleogicall bull*** - Chater is anoying, ppl in this universe talk like spooks they insideout theyselves  in words too much like closest friends not like the military soldiers in wartime. Characters are simmiliar to this  in books by Paulo Cohelo and i hate this hard.  
Technicaly campagin is very good executed and gameplay is also strong point of BP
Too bad that story and character development ruin pleasant feeling towards  WiH as whole.
Also i have troubble to enter in to comm menu in mission near Saturn.

I found easteregg

Spoiler:
Sathanas emerge from subspace and hug me :D awesome.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 18, 2010, 06:26:52 pm
Spoiler:
1. I think it fits in with the WiH is AoA inverted dynamic. Also it'd just be super mega awesome.

Spoiler:
It does have...interesting implications that Bei, who is arguably considerably more human than the average pilot should be in the middle of a mission, can communicate with the Vishians, while Noemi, who is probably psychopathic, can hear the Shivans.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 18, 2010, 06:34:24 pm
Spoiler:
1. I think it fits in with the WiH is AoA inverted dynamic. Also it'd just be super mega awesome.

Spoiler:
It does have...interesting implications that Bei, who is arguably considerably more human than the average pilot should be in the middle of a mission, can communicate with the Vishians, while Noemi, who is probably psychopathic, can hear the Shivans.

Spoiler:
If any of that is true, which I can neither confirm nor deny nor even make any remark with information content upon, my next question would be which direction the causality runs.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Hippy on August 18, 2010, 06:34:34 pm
Just want to add my voice to those proclaiming the sheer greatness of this campaign!

Thank you all so, so, so much for the amazing BP:WiH

Blew my mind. Truly epic in proportions and I for one can't wait for another installment. While other disagree, imo the NPC characters were wonderful and distinctly different in personality. Lorna Simms & the development of the WarGods as a squadron is done very, very well. Over the course of what is essentially a 'short' campaign (compared to FS2 retail or Derelict), the player nonetheless feels like they've been fighting forever. Dialogue points enhance this tremedously and provided a atmosphere of combat fatigue. The interactions with Lorna add to the sense of involvement in the squadron, making me actully feel part of the unit, with an emotional investment in it's success.

The Music! I've still got the Saturn missions track running through my head   :lol:

Only 1 thing I found clunky -> having to pause game to read the dialogue (because I didn't want to miss any of it), as others have said already, VA for BP:WiH would take it from a 9/10 to 10/10 for me. That said, even without the VA I found the dialogue captivating. A VA project is going to need a bunch of excellent female voice actors though.

Also: kitten picture!  :lol:  
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: est1895 on August 18, 2010, 06:39:27 pm
I don't see any debug build.  Could you please give me a link? :eek2:


Update:

I have ran the debug program and learned nothing more.  It keeps saying No Module for a bunch of stuff.  Let me please see a screenshot to see if I got everything installed correctly. 

Any help would be appreciated.

Ralph
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 18, 2010, 06:41:32 pm
...

You, as an untrained user, can't learn more. Which is why you'll have to post the fs2_open.log from your data folder, so that guys who do know how to read these logs can tell you what's wrong.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 18, 2010, 06:46:20 pm
I don't see any debug build.  Could you please give me a link? :eek2:


Update:

I have ran the debug program and learned nothing more.  It keeps saying No Module for a bunch of stuff.  Let me please see a screenshot to see if I got everything installed correctly. 

Any help would be appreciated.

Ralph

You're doing well! Go to FreeSpace2/data/, find the file called fs2open.log, and post it here.

Just want to add my voice to those proclaiming the sheer greatness of this campaign!

Thank you all so, so, so much for the amazing BP:WiH

Blew my mind. Truly epic in proportions and I for one can't wait for another installment. While other disagree, imo the NPC characters were wonderful and distinctly different in personality. Lorna Simms & the development of the WarGods as a squadron is done very, very well. Over the course of what is essentially a 'short' campaign (compared to FS2 retail or Derelict), the player nonetheless feels like they've been fighting forever. Dialogue points enhance this tremedously and provided a atmosphere of combat fatigue. The interactions with Lorna add to the sense of involvement in the squadron, making me actully feel part of the unit, with an emotional investment in it's success.

The Music! I've still got the Saturn missions track running through my head   :lol:

Only 1 thing I found clunky -> having to pause game to read the dialogue (because I didn't want to miss any of it), as others have said already, VA for BP:WiH would take it from a 9/10 to 10/10 for me. That said, even without the VA I found the dialogue captivating. A VA project is going to need a bunch of excellent female voice actors though.

Also: kitten picture!  :lol: 

Thank you, kind sir or madam! Glad you enjoyed it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: est1895 on August 18, 2010, 06:59:54 pm
here it is:


[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 18, 2010, 07:02:44 pm
Okay.

Move your blueplanet 2 files out of blueplanet2/blueplanet2/, and just put them in /blueplanet2/. You don't need a second blueplanet2 folder inside your first one.

Second, please make sure you've got a complete Age of Aquarius install located in /blueplanet/; I only see the audio1 archive there.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 18, 2010, 07:27:25 pm
Spoiler:
If any of that is true, which I can neither confirm nor deny nor even make any remark with information content upon, my next question would be which direction the causality runs.

Spoiler:
My assumption would be that they're only capable of communicating effectively with a similar mindset. Causality both ways; it requires a matched set, a receptive human and a member of the other species at the fringe of their own norms. Hence relative rarity.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: est1895 on August 18, 2010, 07:59:12 pm
Thank you General!! That was it!!!! :lol:

And that would be a good idea E!!! :nod:

This calls for drink!  ;)


PS. What was meant by the Core Files Updated?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Flak on August 18, 2010, 09:17:45 pm
I think if UEF have beams, then they should be either red or white.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 18, 2010, 10:38:24 pm
An Earth fleet with white beams already exists.
Besides, why giving the UEF beams? Their ships are already fine as they are. It feels original and deviates from the raves massive battles between capships in FS2 are.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Shivan Hunter on August 18, 2010, 10:41:04 pm
UEF beams should be blue or yellow, since they'd likely be reverse-engineered from GTVA beams. Although... UEF + beams = suck. Missiles FTW.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Troyd on August 18, 2010, 10:51:42 pm
No UEF beams, unless its got something to do with that project thing.


The uniqueness and technological/social deviation from the separation of the two human entities is one of the major points of this mod and its story.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 18, 2010, 10:55:22 pm
No UEF beams, unless its got something to do with that project thing.


The uniqueness and technological/social deviation from the separation of the two human entities is one of the major points of this mod and its story.

Yes.

I think people often forget that - get this, this is crazy:

More time has passed between the Isolation of Sol and recontact with the GTVA (i.e. BP1) than passed between the discovery of subspace travel and the destruction of the Lucifer.

By a factor of more than two.

The GTA existed for about 20 years. The UEF has existed for 30+, possibly 40+ (I'd have to check our timeline.) The UEF has been the ruling government in Sol for more than half the length of human starflight.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Flak on August 18, 2010, 11:05:00 pm
Probably just as a result of some eggheads who want to try out 'new' technologies. There should only be a few of them since they are strictly experimental and they exist  either because they rig some existing ships, or making last minute modification on some ships that were under construction since there are not enough time to build a proper one. The UEF actually have access to the Lucifer wreckage which contain the first beam weapon encountered.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kosh on August 18, 2010, 11:05:44 pm
This is how to save the human race :

1) Don't do anything of the above post.


Spoiler:
I really don't see how the UEF can win the war at this point, at least through conventional military means. Too many losses taken and not enough damage done, and now with the Vasudans also entering the war. I do wonder what the good admiral's secret project is, it may end up turning the tide.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on August 18, 2010, 11:47:59 pm
You don't just slap reverse engineered weapons on ships for no reason, you'd have to shift your tactics and everything.

The GTVA has had time to study Shivan tech, Earth hasn't.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ypoknons on August 19, 2010, 01:17:17 am
Reverse engineering isn't easy, especially after 30-40 years of divergence. Even if the technology was easily understood by UEF engineers, are the resources (chemicals, materials whatever...) needed to build beam cannons in obtainable Sol? In what kind of quantities? What kind of R&D and capital investments are required to mass produce beam cannons, and are they possible or desirable in wartime?

Spoiler:
Especially since the UEF has lost Jupiter and lost half their earth/moon infrastructure and looks set to lose the war in another 6 months?

How long would it take, given that the war has been only 18-months long? And as the manwiththemachinegun said, would it be effective to intergrate these systems with exsisting UEF systems and personnel? And that's just the suspension of disbelief issues, not the actual desirability of it story-wise.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 19, 2010, 01:37:04 am
Spoiler:
I really don't see how the UEF can win the war at this point, at least through conventional military means. Too many losses taken and not enough damage done, and now with the Vasudans also entering the war. I do wonder what the good admiral's secret project is, it may end up turning the tide.
Spoiler:
I don't think Byrne and the Elders' secret project is some kind of superjuggernaut. At least I hope not. I'm sure the BP guys are more awesome than that.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kosh on August 19, 2010, 01:58:56 am
Spoiler:
I really don't see how the UEF can win the war at this point, at least through conventional military means. Too many losses taken and not enough damage done, and now with the Vasudans also entering the war. I do wonder what the good admiral's secret project is, it may end up turning the tide.
Spoiler:
I don't think Byrne and the Elders' secret project is some kind of superjuggernaut. At least I hope not. I'm sure the BP guys are more awesome than that.


Spoiler:
Never said it was, but I've got the vibe it is something big and important. There's more ways to win a war than one uber ship of doom.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 19, 2010, 03:18:44 am
Whatever Byrne is up to, it is obviously related to
Spoiler:
the Beis and Project NAGARI
Perhaps he's trying to
Spoiler:
summon the Vishnans?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 19, 2010, 03:25:54 am
You don't just slap reverse engineered weapons on ships for no reason, you'd have to shift your tactics and everything.
This.

If the UEF were to adopt beams, they would have to change their entire Fighter-Frigate Operations handbook. It would have to be a much looser system of joint-arms operations and that would give up their main advantage, which is the ability to for fighters and frigates to work side by side.

The spontaneous fire of beams and the lack of warning pilots are given means that their existing combined arms methods would be ineffectual and would result in higher friendly casualties influenced by blue-on-blue beam fire. You simply cannot fly *that* close to a ship whose beams may just go 'BOOM', and with it, your fighter.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 19, 2010, 03:56:16 am
Actually I see comparatively little friendly beam fire. Sure there would be a few casualties but weighing it up you wouldn't need to completely revise your tactical approach.

I agree with your point but you'll have to do better than that.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 19, 2010, 04:13:35 am
Well it really depends on what you're using the beams for.

If you're going to use them as point defence systems, you'd have to reduce their range or effectiveness to make them viable options, in my opinion. UEF fighters typically work in close proximity to their frigates, in a combined arms approach. When you have a weapon like a beam cannon, that fires without warning and has the potential to inflict great damage on its target, you really have to exercise caution. And especially if you're using them as point defence weapons, you'd need to have a few of them, and that wall of beam fire is potentially dangerous to friendly pilots, in particular, its range. With a weapon like a flak cannon, at least if you miss the target it has a shorter range and won't potentially strike a friendly frigate or ship a kilometre away.

Since the UEF like having potent anti-fighter armament, a decent number of beams to fulfill the role of point defence is probably likely.

Anyway, perhaps you wouldn't need a complete revision of tactics, but I think it's definetely going to affect the way UEF fighters and frigs to business.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ypoknons on August 19, 2010, 04:44:26 am
In that case an artillery or arsenal beam UEF ship would be more viable, keep the frigates in the field and have the beam-ships jump in when required. Or a Titan/Ravana/Hecate strategy, again keep the frigates in the field but have the beam-vessel providing fighter support for the battle group, and again jump-in when beams are required. But yes, it's completely true that it wouldn't simply be 'put beams on every UEF ship' and just follow GTVA tactics...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 19, 2010, 05:26:12 am
Spoiler:
Hate this campaign because of story and that hippie  pseudo psychological teleogicall bull*** - Chater is anoying, ppl in this universe talk like spooks they insideout theyselves  in words too much like closest friends not like the military soldiers in wartime. Characters are simmiliar to this  in books by Paulo Cohelo and i hate this hard.  
Technicaly campagin is very good executed and gameplay is also strong point of BP
Too bad that story and character development ruin pleasant feeling towards  WiH as whole.
Also i have troubble to enter in to comm menu in mission near Saturn.

I found easteregg

Spoiler:
Sathanas emerge from subspace and hug me :D awesome.


I am glad that you enjoyed the gameplay and mission design, but I find your interpretation of the storyline elements somewhat lacking, especially with regards to the offending elements you mentioned.

Saying you dislike the campaign because of the story is ok, but you don't really specify many elements of the actual storyline that you disliked, so I can not really help there.

With regards to "hippie" elements of the background and story line, I can say that you are first of all wrong - the UEF are not exactly hippies, as should be obvious if you read between the lines. They can actually be quite ruthless to fulfill their goals. Not just flowers and sunshine all the time.

 The Ubuntu philosophy does prefer peaceful resolutions (as should all sensible sentient beings), but you'll notice they are ready and willing to defend themselves and theirs. Also, the Ubuntu philosophy has different influences depending on region. Some of the individuals do have serious difficulty fitting violent acts of war to their personal philosophies. However, there are very valid in-universe reasons to why the UEF culture developed (was guided to develope, really) as it did. Many of those are exposed in the WiH prose on the web pages, but some of the reasons have not been revealed yet. If the reason to "hippyness"as you called it were unclear, I hope this will help to clarify them. If you just plain dislike it, then I suppose I can not help you because the existence of Ubuntu philosophy and its influence on UEF was one of the primary reasons for GTVA to start the war in the first place.

None of Blue Planet series would exist in its current form if there were no reason for the war to begin with...

As far as "pseudo-psychological teleological bull****" goes, I am hesistant to ask if you are aware of what these terms actually mean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleology), so I'm going to have to assume what you actually mean to say.

If you mean to question the value of seemingly "supernatural" elements of the storyline, I can only say that there are no supernatural elements in Blue Planet. Everything that happens is natural. There are phenomena with unknown explanation, but that doesn't make them "supernatural", just unknown - so far. I am hesitant to further extrapolate on this tangent; I can just re-iterate my suggestion to read through the background material as thoroughly as you can.

What comes to annoying chatter, there is no excuse for that. There is simply too much of it - to appear as just text. Voice-acted, this problem would not really exist as you would hear each message spoken in real-time.

However, as far as the content of the messages goes, I find your argument a bit off the mark. I don't know of you have any military experience, but front line units usually are pretty close-knit crews. From the Wargods crew, there's pretty much just Simms, Ng'Mei and Olefumi as the "old guard", rest are replacements that they are going through at rapid pace. Laporte has a very close relationship with Simms (what kind of depends on your character interpretation). They are close friends as much as soldiers in war time. In the first part of the campaign, Brie and Kassim are Laporte's relatives, so their familiarity is explained there.

It is true that combat communications should usually be as short, coherent and informative as possible, but that sort of utilitarian approach makes for a bad way of telling the story with FreeSpace missions. We have tried to include miltiary-style language as much as possible, but that's really to just give a semi-professional impression to what the pilots are doing.

If you look atthe retail FreeSpace campaigns, that's the way it was done there too.

I hope you'll be able to enjoy the next parts of Blue Planet despite the things you disliked.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IvKir on August 19, 2010, 06:01:56 am
I guess there is nothing wrong with all this chatter in brief moment of war. Remember, guy's, they are not in real fight with anyone after destruction of Lucifer! So i find it normal.

And besides - i can't image fight group of 4-6 soldier, that do not have any kind of relationship, simply becouse it's a something, that psychology called "small group".
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IvKir on August 19, 2010, 06:10:57 am
BTW, BP-team, i can't still get it, why human community in GTVA space don't get troubled about this war? I mean, if i was there, i probably shouted: "What the hell guy's?! Are you gone crazy? This IS Earth, how the hell there can be illegal goverment?? Thats a bull****"

And i think that i'm not alone in this, i guess.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 19, 2010, 06:16:46 am
BTW, BP-team, i can't still get it, why human community in GTVA space don't get troubled about this war? I mean, if i was there, i probably shouted: "What the hell guy's?! Are you gone crazy? This IS Earth, how the hell there can be illegal goverment?? Thats a bull****"

And i think that i'm not alone in this, i guess.
If you were overseas and subsequently found out that the government of your home country got overthrown by a bunch of personality cult dictator pricks, would you not favor their removal and the re-institution of the previous government?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 19, 2010, 06:17:10 am
Well there most likely is that going on.

But remember that as the only foreign body in the Sol system, the GTVA has some means of making sure the public knows 'Only what it's supposed to', and/or bastardizing the UEF in any kind of public announcements or forums.

In other words, the GTVA will probably spare no effort in painting the Federation as 'the bad guys', and themselves as the ones fighting for justice in an effort to get the population on their side (essential for the success of any war back home). Also, remember why Severanti was relieved. The Alliance wants Sol finished, and fast. One of the reasons most likely being that the Alliance don't want the general populace to start turning into a Vietnam-esque body of opposition toward the war, and allow it the time to do that.

EDIT: And what Snail said too.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 19, 2010, 06:18:54 am
Going from a democractically elected government to a semireligious autocratic wtf that doesn't even register as a government to most people is usually regarded as a step backward.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 19, 2010, 06:22:26 am
Yeah. Citizens of Ubuntu might be willing to submit to a bunch of old guys sitting around a table claiming to hear whispers from the flying Spaghetti Monsters that run the universe, but not us... :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 19, 2010, 06:25:30 am
BTW, BP-team, i can't still get it, why human community in GTVA space don't get troubled about this war? I mean, if i was there, i probably shouted: "What the hell guy's?! Are you gone crazy? This IS Earth, how the hell there can be illegal goverment?? Thats a bull****"

And i think that i'm not alone in this, i guess.

The problem is that the GTVA has absolute control over the news that come out of Sol. There is no Internet to carry "unbiased" reporting out of Sol.
At any rate, the official reason for this war is that Sol has been taken over by a pacifistic, religiously motivated party that has been busy performing experiments on Terra's population. This jeopardizes Earth's chances of survival against a new Shivan assault, and since Earth is the largest, most highly developed economy in terran space, it endangers all of humanity.
Now, are there other opinions in the GTVA, pundits arguing against this war? Yes, certainly. However, in the context of the campaign, those aren't mentioned because they're not important. Let's just say that this war has an approval rating slightly below that of America's entry into WW2.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 19, 2010, 06:52:48 am
But if the war drags on much longer, the GTVA will have to change their line.
That they were able to hold out against a superiour enemy for over two years shows that the UEF aren't completely pacifistic and incapable of defending themselfs as the GTVA claims them to be. Now add the Tevs high fighter losses into the mix (that many death can't be hidden for long, no matter how good their information controll and propaganda is) and surely some people "back home"  will start to question the GTVAs motives and/or their validity.
Which would of course explain why the GTVA gave Steele the freedoms he seems to have in commanding the Sol invasion forces. They run out of time and thus are willing to take greater risks both with the vasudans and on matters of moral (like nuclear bombing of civilian areas on Luna or calling the "total war clause" of the BETAC into effect).
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 19, 2010, 07:01:21 am
About the fighter losses,

Keep in mind that historically, a side will unavoidably overclaim its share of kills. That, and that listing the figures of the pilots who ejected safely sounds a lot more friendly than "fifty fighter losses today!"

And then at the end of the sausage factory, you have something like 300 Federal Fighter Losses vs. 60 GTVA Pilots Recovered Today. But yeah, there are ways to hide the amount of fighter losses.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IvKir on August 19, 2010, 07:09:28 am

If you were overseas and subsequently found out that the government of your home country got overthrown by a bunch of personality cult dictator pricks, would you not favor their removal and the re-institution of the previous government?

Don't think so. And in any case don't favor returning to homeworld via heavy armor and weapon. Nuked Moon, Mars and averybody in GTVA think's it's okey... i don't think it's right.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: IvKir on August 19, 2010, 07:11:48 am
But if the war drags on much longer, the GTVA will have to change their line.
That they were able to hold out against a superiour enemy for over two years shows that the UEF aren't completely pacifistic and incapable of defending themselfs as the GTVA claims them to be. Now add the Tevs high fighter losses into the mix (that many death can't be hidden for long, no matter how good their information controll and propaganda is) and surely some people "back home"  will start to question the GTVAs motives and/or their validity.
Which would of course explain why the GTVA gave Steele the freedoms he seems to have in commanding the Sol invasion forces. They run out of time and thus are willing to take greater risks both with the vasudans and on matters of moral (like nuclear bombing of civilian areas on Luna or calling the "total war clause" of the BETAC into effect).

Well.. that make sense, on some point, but still... well, maybe it's just my Russian soul. :)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 19, 2010, 07:15:04 am
Oh right, forgot that in WiH pilots can eject.
But while it's true that a side might overclaim their killcounts, but the Techroom entries (which sound more like an outsiders point of view) speak about the GTVA suffering great fighter losses untill the dump the tactics they used against the Shivans, which turned out to be disasterious against UEF fighters. On top of that we see massive numbers of GTVA fighters destroyed almost every mission.
Spoiler:
Just take the first mission:
3 Pegasi, 4 Artemis and 4 Myrmidons destroyed before the safepoint. Several Rhea, Boanerges and escorts (don't remember the exact numbers there, but at least 6 Rhea and 3 Boa) after that. And all the UEF had on scene were two damaged cuisers and one wing of three rookies.

Quote
But yeah, there are ways to hide the amount of fighter losses.
And how would you explain to the families of those pilots why they are no longer coming home or calling or writing? Claiming all those people missing, out of communication or dead by accidents won't work for long.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: TrashMan on August 19, 2010, 08:49:54 am
Quote
and the Brahmas of old and all that business between them and the shivies.

Same there.

What? All that discussion between the Shivans and Vishnian nd some kind of council and ancient creators - all that is not real? Bei made it up?


Quote
Quote
As ideas and concepts, I hate them in their very core with the blazing intensity of a million supernovas.

Really? If I'm not mistaken you're a big fan of Sword of the Stars, which includes ancient creator races (the Suul'Ka), psionics, and other fairly similar elements.

Different animals altogether.
SOTS also didn't have Chosen Mary Sues and prophetic visions.




Quote
And the vibe I got...like some religious-political propaganda pamphlet. Seriously, I felt like the campaign was advertising this Unbutu and Buddhism or whatever.


Quote
Hrm. Why?

All that said I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Hard to explain. I just did. Maybe because it was brought up so often.

Hey, I gave it 9/10 (if you like such plot stuff). That's as high as any game will EVER get on my meter. But I usually score games in ranges, since I feel it is more accurate. Note that 5 equals average = good.
So if I say 6,7-9 out of 10....That's high praise from me. IF you ever see me giving anything a 10/10, feel free to shot me, as I lost my mind and every last shred of objectivity I had.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 19, 2010, 08:53:50 am
Quote
and the Brahmas of old and all that business between them and the shivies.

Same there.

What? All that discussion between the Shivans and Vishnian nd some kind of council and ancient creators - all that is not real? Bei made it up?

No, he didn't make it up. However, what Bei saw was a heavily simplified and not necessarily accurate message from the Vishnans. The Vishnans do have an agenda of their own, and so what they told Bei could be deliberate misinformation on their part.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 19, 2010, 09:15:44 am
Quote
SOTS also didn't have Chosen Mary Sues and prophetic visions.
Quote from: Wikipedia
A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy  for the author or reader. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious  for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".
I don't really feel Bei or Laporte fall in that catagory...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 19, 2010, 09:28:15 am
Trashman is, like many do, simply applying the label to something he doesn't like without regard to the term's meaning.

Nevermind that FS is more or less built around the concept of a wish-fulfilment story being a first-person combat flight sim with an AFGNCAAP protagonist and therefore a Mary Sue is the best form of character to represent the player.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Flak on August 19, 2010, 10:21:40 am
At this point, we do not know the background information surrounding the GTVA high command or the Ubuntu elders. Even Steele is probably just following orders.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 19, 2010, 10:24:42 am
I don't really feel Bei or Laporte fall in that catagory...
Martin Mandho = Darius
Noemi Laporte = Battuta

:nervous:

:shaking:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 19, 2010, 10:41:16 am
I don't really feel Bei or Laporte fall in that catagory...
Martin Mandho = Darius
Noemi Laporte = Battuta

:nervous:

:shaking:
  :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ypoknons on August 19, 2010, 10:53:43 am
I'm not a spiritual man but I've lived in Asia long enough, and I know the basics. BP Ubuntu's similarities with Buddhism is superficial at best, Ubuntu doesn't talk anything about inner vacuity or reincarnation circles. A large part of Ubuntu and UEF success comes from good economic models, especially infrastructure investments (with certain real-world parallels here) and a spirit to achieve worldly goals, including scientific achievement - trust me, neither Buddhism or Taoism or Confucius talk much about that. With regards to the Elders, it's interesting, I think I'll have to see more before I can really judge. Prima facie, a closed one party circle would seem contradictory to transparent and accountable government, but it's not impossible either.

At the same time, there's much we don't know about the GTVA, especially with the post-Capella changes in the BP universe. I'm not sure we can just assume it's western democracy in space. Sure, they have a general assembly, but how many political parties? What is the balance of power? What is electoral system across the different GTVA worlds? Does the system encourage citizen involvement in government, or does the business sector or the military dominate?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Commander Zane on August 19, 2010, 10:53:59 am
I don't really feel Bei or Laporte fall in that catagory...
Martin Mandho = Darius
Noemi Laporte = Battuta

:nervous:

:shaking:
If that's the case, I must be a Shivan. :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 19, 2010, 11:14:03 am
I don't really feel Bei or Laporte fall in that catagory...
Martin Mandho = Darius
Noemi Laporte = Battuta

:nervous:

:shaking:
SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Fix'd.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 19, 2010, 11:18:12 am
BTW, BP-team, i can't still get it, why human community in GTVA space don't get troubled about this war? I mean, if i was there, i probably shouted: "What the hell guy's?! Are you gone crazy? This IS Earth, how the hell there can be illegal goverment?? Thats a bull****"

And i think that i'm not alone in this, i guess.

Oh, there's definitely some discontent on the home front; I believe you get hints of this during War in Heaven. Remember, one of the reasons for the war is the fact that the GTVA does not have a great grip on the hearts and minds of its people; it lacks soft power. The war has polarized the populace, both rallying a lot of support and crystallizing a lot of opposition. The GTVA has to manage presentation of the war very carefully.

Going from a democractically elected government to a semireligious autocratic wtf that doesn't even register as a government to most people is usually regarded as a step backward.

Well bear in mind that the Federation is perfectly democratic on the year-to-year level; it just has this weird little Council attached to it, which has very little short-term power but steers things in the long run. It's like the Supreme Court but bigger and more executive than judicial.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 19, 2010, 12:47:33 pm
I think if UEF have beams, then they should be either red or white.

Purple!

OOC: Nice user name.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 19, 2010, 02:01:55 pm
Red would be too Shivan and I don't think purple would fit in with the coloring of their ships. Maybe turquiose?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 19, 2010, 03:51:44 pm
BTW, BP-team, i can't still get it, why human community in GTVA space don't get troubled about this war? I mean, if i was there, i probably shouted: "What the hell guy's?! Are you gone crazy? This IS Earth, how the hell there can be illegal goverment?? Thats a bull****"

Rampant propaganda that shows the Federation as an autocratic dictatorship, almost a theocracy led by the Council of Elders.

You should look at history for examples about how unbelievably easy it is to make people feel threatened by the faction you want to go to war with.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: terran_emperor on August 19, 2010, 04:06:31 pm
Tell me, was the Halo-verse an inluence of the tactics of the two sides?

Cos Capital ship warfare in this reminds me of how it is described in the Halo books:

The UEF ships relying on Railguns and Missile Barrages is very similar to the UNSC tactics

Whilst the GTVA ships ripped things appart with beams - very similar to the Covenant...

And the UEF scoring minor victories but getting trounced in the big battles is also basically the UNSC's story

Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: manwiththemachinegun on August 19, 2010, 04:15:06 pm
Battles in Freespace are usually spread out over a wide corridor of space, and rarely are there huge, decisive clashes.

Remember all the way back in FS1? Operation Thresher had the GTA lose over 300+ fighters and pilots, and yet that didn't effect fleet operations at all it seemed.

Thus I have no trouble swallowing a higher rate of attrition with even more dangerous weapons. Battles of Endor don't usually reflect how the GTVA/GTA usually fight, it's more spread out than that.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 19, 2010, 04:24:59 pm
GTVA has no interest in destroying the UEF or glassing planets. That's a huge difference in the strategy compared to Covenant.

The biggest problem GTVA faces is in fact not the UEF military, but the logistical impossibility of occupying Earth (and, to lesser extent Mars). The best they can hope is to take control of the solar system space and orbital facilities, but if Earth population by and large decides they don't want to give their resources to the GTVA, what would GTVA do?

Send in the Marines? The Earth alone is probably still the largest population center of humanity, and most likely more populous than the GTVA as a whole.

As far as comparison to Covenant (pre-Halo 2 events) would go, their interest in humanity would be complete destruction.

So the question arises - what does the GTVA hope to accomplish with the war? Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?

Just saying that if the UEF decides to go for organized resistance on planetside, GTVA would have a hard time dealing with it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: terran_emperor on August 19, 2010, 04:34:10 pm
Thats not what i was saying. And I dont have a problem with that

What I was saying was that the UEF (losing) with Missiles&Rail Guns/GTVA (Wining) with Beams reminds me of how Capship combat  is described in the Halo-verse.

So I was asking if the Halo-verse was an influence
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 19, 2010, 04:42:33 pm
GTVA has no interest in destroying the UEF or glassing planets. That's a huge difference in the strategy compared to Covenant.

The biggest problem GTVA faces is in fact not the UEF military, but the logistical impossibility of occupying Earth (and, to lesser extent Mars). The best they can hope is to take control of the solar system space and orbital facilities, but if Earth population by and large decides they don't want to give their resources to the GTVA, what would GTVA do?

Send in the Marines? The Earth alone is probably still the largest population center of humanity, and most likely more populous than the GTVA as a whole.

As far as comparison to Covenant (pre-Halo 2 events) would go, their interest in humanity would be complete destruction.

So the question arises - what does the GTVA hope to accomplish with the war? Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?

Just saying that if the UEF decides to go for organized resistance on planetside, GTVA would have a hard time dealing with it.
Resurrect the original Harbinger?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 19, 2010, 04:55:12 pm
Because genocide is fuuuuun.


No, wait, it's not. You can't win a civil war, much less conduct an occupation, using antimatter bombs.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 19, 2010, 05:05:53 pm
using antimatter bombs.

Salted fission-fusion quad warhead technically. I'm still a littler unclear on the utility there, as the slightest timing error results in fratricide and a suboptimal explosion, but...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 19, 2010, 05:12:45 pm
Just put a little dose of super-high-tech mixed with handwavium in and they work just fine. :P

Quote
Whilst the GTVA ships ripped things appart with beams - very similar to the Covenant...
The Covenant had just a single ship that used beams (not counting plasma turrets that Cortana reconfigured), the others were armed with some lasers for point defense and plasma torpedoes.
Not sure about that book with the "stealth spartans" though...

Quote
Remember all the way back in FS1? Operation Thresher had the GTA lose over 300+ fighters and pilots, and yet that didn't effect fleet operations at all it seemed.
If that came in answer to me: I wasn't talking about the fighter losses affecting the operation. I was just saying that so many dead pilots can't be hidden from the general public for long. And once those death get public, they put a lie to the GTVAs argument that the UEF is completely pacifistic and thus helpless against the Shivans, showing that High Command either was lying or seriously mistaken. Either way not a good way to stay in power in a society that's barely holding together in the first place. And the only thing that kept them together for almost two decades was the promise of reuniting with Earth (which helped focus the population into a common goal, but alienated the Vasudans - no pun intended).
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 19, 2010, 05:16:18 pm
Norbert, some of the more powerful Covenant vessels had energy projectors which were massive beam cannons.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 19, 2010, 09:32:35 pm
Norbert, some of the more powerful Covenant vessels had energy projectors which were massive beam cannons.

He's thinking of the one exemplar of those more powerful ships that showed up at the end of Fall of Reach.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 19, 2010, 09:55:50 pm
Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?
This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 19, 2010, 09:58:06 pm
the UEF DOES know about the shivan threat.  they have had access to the history of the GTVA post-lucifer, i assume through the defected ships and servicemen.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 19, 2010, 10:01:54 pm
the UEF DOES know about the shivan threat.  they have had access to the history of the GTVA post-lucifer, i assume through the defected ships and servicemen.

Doesn't cover that they don't have a ready made fleet designed to combat the red-five-legged menace, and the GTVA does. Or did, before the UEF started knocking holes in it.

Rather short sighted there chaps, enjoy being Shivan munchies once you finish destroying your last, best hope for victory. (Yes, Noemi, I'm glaring at you)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 19, 2010, 10:08:35 pm
Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?
This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 19, 2010, 10:11:49 pm
Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?
This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.
Defeating the next Shivan incursion thanks to Sol's industry, technology, and population certainly will though.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 19, 2010, 10:13:54 pm
Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?
This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

How can it have ruled for that long? I thought it formed in the aftermath of the Luci's cataclysmic entry to the Sol system? Which makes the GTA (which was formed at around that time) just as long standing. And, honestly, a more effective government since it guided a sparsely populated colonial region through two rebellions, a shivan incursion and all the associated strifes. Admittedly, post 2nd Shivan Incursion, the glue that held the GTA together was the dream of a return to Earth, but...

Oh, and Sparda makes an excellent point.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 19, 2010, 10:18:54 pm
the UEF DOES know about the shivan threat.  they have had access to the history of the GTVA post-lucifer, i assume through the defected ships and servicemen.

Doesn't cover that they don't have a ready made fleet designed to combat the red-five-legged menace, and the GTVA does. Or did, before the UEF started knocking holes in it.

Rather short sighted there chaps, enjoy being Shivan munchies once you finish destroying your last, best hope for victory. (Yes, Noemi, I'm glaring at you)

if the Sol fleet is knocking holes in the GTVA fleet, they were NOT ready to combat the shivans.  or the Sol fleet was just as ready, depending on how you look at it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 19, 2010, 10:25:54 pm
Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?
This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

How can it have ruled for that long? I thought it formed in the aftermath of the Luci's cataclysmic entry to the Sol system?

You're thinking of the GTVA. The GTA formed 19 years before FS1 when intersystem starflight was discovered.

Quote
Which makes the GTA (which was formed at around that time) just as long standing.

After above post, this should be clearer: the GTA ruled Sol for 19 years, the Federation has been in power for 40+ (if I recall my history right.)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: est1895 on August 19, 2010, 10:29:16 pm
I'm crashing on mission 3 & 5....  with 5 being the worst ...is anyone else having that?  I'll get you the fs2.log file tomorrow if you need it.

regards,

Ralph

PS...what does schlaug mean? :confused:  because I said it to a german woman and she did this :hopping:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 19, 2010, 10:31:58 pm
Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?
This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

How can it have ruled for that long? I thought it formed in the aftermath of the Luci's cataclysmic entry to the Sol system?

You're thinking of the GTVA. The GTA formed 19 years before FS1 when intersystem starflight was discovered.

Quote
Which makes the GTA (which was formed at around that time) just as long standing.

After above post, this should be clearer: the GTA ruled Sol for 19 years, the Federation has been in power for 40+ (if I recall my history right.)

Well, I always assumed the GTA had continuance as the Terran part of the GTVA, and the PVE folded into the fleet structure and as an equal partner in the alliance (but still, loosely, as an autonomous empire)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 19, 2010, 10:34:10 pm
Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?
This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

How can it have ruled for that long? I thought it formed in the aftermath of the Luci's cataclysmic entry to the Sol system?

You're thinking of the GTVA. The GTA formed 19 years before FS1 when intersystem starflight was discovered.

Quote
Which makes the GTA (which was formed at around that time) just as long standing.

After above post, this should be clearer: the GTA ruled Sol for 19 years, the Federation has been in power for 40+ (if I recall my history right.)

Well, I always assumed the GTA had continuance as the Terran part of the GTVA, and the PVE folded into the fleet structure and as an equal partner in the alliance (but still, loosely, as an autonomous empire)

We're talking from the POV of the people in Sol, which is what matters to the people in Sol in terms of attachment to a government.

Nineteen years of wartime emergency powers versus 40+ years of prosperity is going to create powerful loyalty to one of those over the other.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 19, 2010, 10:38:12 pm
Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?
This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

How can it have ruled for that long? I thought it formed in the aftermath of the Luci's cataclysmic entry to the Sol system?

You're thinking of the GTVA. The GTA formed 19 years before FS1 when intersystem starflight was discovered.

Quote
Which makes the GTA (which was formed at around that time) just as long standing.

After above post, this should be clearer: the GTA ruled Sol for 19 years, the Federation has been in power for 40+ (if I recall my history right.)

Well, I always assumed the GTA had continuance as the Terran part of the GTVA, and the PVE folded into the fleet structure and as an equal partner in the alliance (but still, loosely, as an autonomous empire)

We're talking from the POV of the people in Sol, which is what matters to the people in Sol in terms of attachment to a government.

Nineteen years of wartime emergency powers versus 40+ years of prosperity is going to create powerful loyalty to one of those over the other.

Ah yes, I was just dealing in hard facts there, to make sure that I hadn't got things wrong. I know that the silly Sol-ers will have their own (incorrect, naturally) assessment. Comes from having a bad government. :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ypoknons on August 19, 2010, 10:45:15 pm
Is the GTVA the answer to the Shivans? Remember in the background story one of the reasons for the GTVA's problems post-Capella is that before the second war the GTVA seemed to be keep the people safe from the Shivans... until they showed up with 80 jugs and blew up up Capella. What's more, since then the GTVA has been an economic mess, its two members in a deteriorating relationship and sure, its fleet has improved but is it enough to face down the Shivans? It's all the background materials guys, so what is the GTVA's answer to the Shivans?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ravenholme on August 19, 2010, 10:51:06 pm
Is the GTVA the answer to the Shivans? Remember in the background story one of the reasons for the GTVA's problems post-Capella is that before the second war the GTVA seemed to be keep the people safe from the Shivans... until they showed up with 80 jugs and blew up up Capella. What's more, since then the GTVA has been an economic mess, its two members in a deteriorating relationship and sure, its fleet has improved but is it enough to face down the Shivans? It's all the background materials guys, so what is the GTVA's answer to the Shivans?

Their entire new fleet is BASED around destroying Shivans. It's not physically possible to defeat the Shivans as it stands, but the GTVA stands a better chance of holding down the fort (As in, they won't roll over in a day when the Shivans come knocking) until a solution is found. THAT makes them a more efficient and prepared government than the UEF can ever hope to be in my eyes.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kosh on August 19, 2010, 10:53:26 pm
Quote
Well, I always assumed the GTA had continuance as the Terran part of the GTVA, and the PVE folded into the fleet structure and as an equal partner in the alliance (but still, loosely, as an autonomous empire)


Actually it's the other way around. The GTA completely collapsed before the formation of the GTVA and so the terran systems were in total chaos.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ypoknons on August 19, 2010, 11:23:13 pm
Their entire new fleet is BASED around destroying Shivans. It's not physically possible to defeat the Shivans as it stands, but the GTVA stands a better chance of holding down the fort (As in, they won't roll over in a day when the Shivans come knocking) until a solution is found. THAT makes them a more efficient and prepared government than the UEF can ever hope to be in my eyes.
You say "ever hope to be." Is there a reason why the UEF cannot collobrate in peacetime with the GTVA to build an anti-Shivan fleet?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 19, 2010, 11:37:05 pm
Quote
Well, I always assumed the GTA had continuance as the Terran part of the GTVA, and the PVE folded into the fleet structure and as an equal partner in the alliance (but still, loosely, as an autonomous empire)


Actually it's the other way around. The GTA completely collapsed before the formation of the GTVA and so the terran systems were in total chaos.
Not total chaos. The GTA disintegrated into semi-autonomous regional blocs.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 19, 2010, 11:51:54 pm
There really isn't a reason why the GTVA and UEF can't build warships together, except the UEF has deep cultural issues about building the sort of warfleets necessary to repel Shivan incursions.  They're very much a peaceful, isolationist society that wishes we could all just get along, except we can't because the Shivans could show up at any minute with a new ship of mass destruction bent on exterminating the Terrans and Vasudans.  The UEF could be described as a utopian society and have the name fit, except the UEF happens to exist in an imperfect galaxy, and I think the UEF wouldn't last five minutes if they opened themselves up to the outside galaxy.

The way I see it, and a reason why I have issues with Noemi being told by Ken to wipe out the GTVA is the GTVA is a monster of the Shivans' own creation.  The Shivans glassed Vasuda Prime, nearly destroyed Earth, and caused untold destruction in T-V space during the Great War.  Then, during the Second Shivan Incursion, the Shivans destroy an entire star system by causing (a) star(s) to go supernova with a fleet of eighty six-kilometer-long juggernauts each capable of wiping out a small fleet with one BFRed, and they each have four of those.  Noemi also mentions about how the Tevs have lost something important during their encounters with the Shivans.  Every time the Shivans have shown up, they've wreaked massive death and destruction upon the Terrans and Vasudans, so the Terrans becoming hard-ass bastards focused on survival at any cost by any means is unsurprising, to say the least, and to the best of my knowledge the Shivans just want to wipe out what they've created with no sign of remorse.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 20, 2010, 12:37:37 am
There really isn't a reason why the GTVA and UEF can't build warships together, except the UEF has deep cultural issues about building the sort of warfleets necessary to repel Shivan incursions.  They're very much a peaceful,

Peaceful, yes, but...

Quote
isolationist society

If you read up on their history and ideology (or pay attention to some of the dialogue in WiH), they're actually very much about going out there and Doing Stuff. 'Kill stuff' is possibly not on their Top Ten Hobbies list, but Make Stuff and Find Stuff and Invent Stuff and Explore Stuff all are.

It's an open question as to what the UEF would do given interstellar travel.

Awesome discussion though.  :yes: Just tossing in factoids to keep things turning, I'd never ruin this by taking sides.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Kosh on August 20, 2010, 12:56:19 am
Quote
There really isn't a reason why the GTVA and UEF can't build warships together, except the UEF has deep cultural issues about building the sort of warfleets necessary to repel Shivan incursions.  They're very much a peaceful, isolationist society that wishes we could all just get along, except we can't because the Shivans could show up at any minute with a new ship of mass destruction bent on exterminating the Terrans and Vasudans.  The UEF could be described as a utopian society and have the name fit, except the UEF happens to exist in an imperfect galaxy, and I think the UEF wouldn't last five minutes if they opened themselves up to the outside galaxy.


On the flipside what caused those incursions were largescale interstellar wars via subspace. The UEF's pacifism might actually prevent a third incursion.

Quote
Not total chaos. The GTA disintegrated into semi-autonomous regional blocs.

Anytime you remove a central authority from an area like that the results are never pretty. Somalia is a good example of that.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 20, 2010, 01:06:22 am
'Kill stuff' is possibly not on their Top Ten Hobbies list, but Make Stuff and Find Stuff and Invent Stuff and Explore Stuff all are.
The Human Way of Doing Stuff. Only without the 'use all of this to make Stuff that can Kill Stuff' (also part of the Human Way of Doing Stuff), which, IMO, is why the UEF failed to pass the Species Survival in a Hostile Universe test.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 20, 2010, 01:26:44 am
Yep.  Chances are there are more races in the galaxy than the Shivans, Vasudans, and Terrans, and not all of those may be friendly, and the UEF may be force to wage a large-scale interstellar war using subspace against a hostile race through no fault of their own, and I don't think the Shivans will attack only the antagonists.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ypoknons on August 20, 2010, 01:50:26 am
They're very much a peaceful, isolationist society that wishes we could all just get along, except we can't because the Shivans could show up at any minute with a new ship of mass destruction bent on exterminating the Terrans and Vasudans.  The UEF could be described as a utopian society and have the name fit, except the UEF happens to exist in an imperfect galaxy, and I think the UEF wouldn't last five minutes if they opened themselves up to the outside galaxy.
Given the empricial evidence I'm not sure if UEF is that isolationist. Their fleet is small, but that's because they've been trapped in their own system with a mostly unified politicial system. A fleet of frigates would have been enough for peacekeeping and fighting terrorists, yet they built the Solaris destroyers anyways. The point is that they have more military than they actually need. It's normal for militaries to scale down without an active threat, and with no active subspace nodes and no knowledge of Knossos devices, it's a different story from the GTVA, who knew the Shivans can jump in at any time.  Granted, the UEF is a creature of its situation, but it's not nessarsily isolationist or pacifist. You can't expect them to have a military buildup like the GTVA without any subspace nodes or knowledge that you can "fix" subspace nodes. Like the General said, how they'd adapt to rejoining the interstellar community is an open question.


The problem with the BP GTVA is that they're a society teetering on the edge - their economy recovery from Capella has been slow, their relationship with their closest ally is enstranged (instead of profiting from trade and growth), their growth is limited. A society needs a healthy economy to support a large, well equipped military, otherwise the debt gets overwhelming, the financial system falls apart, society becomes unstable - much of what happened to the old GTA in Sol. They're kept things together by investing in Centeur station, but where do they go from there?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: TrashMan on August 20, 2010, 01:54:18 am
Quote
SOTS also didn't have Chosen Mary Sues and prophetic visions.
Quote from: Wikipedia
A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy  for the author or reader. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious  for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".
I don't really feel Bei or Laporte fall in that catagory...

Check the definition on TV TROPES.

Mary Sue is not purely about power - but how other characters react around the Sue.
Pretty much the whole universe revolves around Bei and even moreso Laporte, especially since we keep getting reminded how important and "speshul" they are.


Quote
Trashman is, like many do, simply applying the label to something he doesn't like without regard to the term's meaning.

Nevermind that FS is more or less built around the concept of a wish-fulfilment story being a first-person combat flight sim with an AFGNCAAP protagonist and therefore a Mary Sue is the best form of character to represent the player.

Bollocks.
FS 1 and 2 is not about Alpha1. You're not a super-special snowlake. Just a talented pilot.
The difference is so obvious I shouldn't even have to write this...

You fail again NGTM-1R
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Qent on August 20, 2010, 02:00:55 am
Isn't Ubuntu mainly empirical? I haven't read the dossiers recently, but I kind of recall that Ubuntu does what works first and is pacifistic only as a corollary to that. Assuming it works as advertised then, I'd bet on the Federation being as prepared for the Shivans as possible given the circumstances and information they had.

As the GTVA, I'd see Ubuntu as a sure way to save the economy, and therefore the quickest path to bigger ships with bigger beams. I would also be confident that since Ubuntu does what works by definition, it will not result in the GTVA rolling over and dying in the face of the Shivan threat. So yeah, I'm tired and I need to reread the docs on Ubuntu.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Jellyfish on August 20, 2010, 02:07:15 am
Pretty much the whole universe revolves around Bei and even moreso Laporte, especially since we keep getting reminded how important and "speshul" they are.
Well, it's not like people that can talk to extradimensional aliens are a dime a dozen...
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 20, 2010, 02:27:39 am
Isn't that a bit of a Chosen Mary Sue thing right there?

Ypoknons:  At the end of FS1, after you defeat the Lucifer, end up in Sol, and the node collapses, Alpha 1 mentions being told the Shivans will return and that they can rebuild the destroyed node.  If I were the Sol government, I'd be worrying about the GTA outside Sol being destroyed, the Shivans showing up in Sol with another Lucifer or three, and finishing what they started.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 20, 2010, 02:50:33 am
Isn't that a bit of a Chosen Mary Sue thing right there?

le sigh

The trope has clearly started being overapplied when characters like Luke Skywalker or Frodo start being labeled 'Mary Sues'.

Neither Laporte nor Bei qualify.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ypoknons on August 20, 2010, 02:58:02 am
Ypoknons:  At the end of FS1, after you defeat the Lucifer, end up in Sol, and the node collapses, Alpha 1 mentions being told the Shivans will return and that they can rebuild the destroyed node.  If I were the Sol government, I'd be worrying about the GTA outside Sol being destroyed, the Shivans showing up in Sol with another Lucifer or three, and finishing what they started.
That's a good point, and I had forgotten. That might very well have the been the reason why the Solaris project got through, in fact.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 20, 2010, 04:00:14 am
That monologue at the end of FS1 isn't a good argument.
As far as we know it might only have been Alpha 1 hearing voices and noone else believing him.

And even if the majority of Sol believed that at first, the Shivans didn't come for decade after decade. So surely more and more people would have started to think that the Shivans either can't rebuild jumpnodes or simply aren't interrested in Humanity anymore, because of their isolation.
They did recover the Ancient materials that suggested the Shivans to attack only those that attacked other races after all.

On top of that a Karuna can easily defeat a beamless Demon. Of course that's not enough to crack a Lucifer, but maybe they build the Solarises for exactly that reason.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 20, 2010, 05:26:31 am
I am confused.

There seems to be a widely agreed consensus about the fact that Shivans, should they really want to destroy humanity, could not be stopped.

Yet, at the same time people propose that since GTVA's fleet could (speculatively) deter the Shivans for a longer period of time, they are the preferable faction of the two.

However, consider this: Based on FS1 monologues, what kind of factions do the Shivans go after?

Quote from: Ancients Monologues
Ours was a proud people, and always the strongest. For thousands of years our empire expanded. For so long we could imagine ourselves alone in the universe. For so long never did we encounter advanced life. And we travelled faster and further, spreading in our galaxy and before long we could see the day when our reachable systems would have been exploited. And then there would be nowhere else to go.

And we discovered subspace. It gave us our galaxy and it gave us the universe. And we saw other advanced life. And we subdued it or we crushed it. In months the extermination of billions of years of evolution on a similar but slower path. With subspace, our empire would surely know no boundaries.

...

When the destroyers came for us, we attacked. Never had we been defeated. They are like the others. Strange, hideous, resisting, fighting. Only these were not like the others. They did not die.

We made our first retreat. We could forego one system. We left it to the destroyers and went elsewhere. But they followed, they hunted us. They followed us when we retreated, discovered where we lived.

For a long time, we did not know why they chased us. They were no ordinary enemy. They did not seek our territory, our technology, our resources.

Now we know our crime was sin.

...

And we retreated to our home system. Abandoned our empire. We believed at home we would be safe. For they are not a terrestrial species.

We know when we entered subspace we were trespassers. But our planet is our home. And yet still they came. And our world is gone.

...

There are a few of us left. We know we will soon be gone. And so we can see our fate as others will see it. There will be little legacy. No great expressions of what we once were. Our technology, our achievements if ever they are seen again will spawn none of the awe that filled our conquests.

We know our fate. We are being eliminated. When we traveled subspace, the cosmic destroyers took note.

When we conquered and colonized in galaxies where we had no place the destruction and the anguish and the loss were the clarion call of our doom. And so the destroyers came for us.

...

There is little left for us. Little time. But much irony.

We did discover they are not invulnerable. The destroyers that darkened our skies like a plague can be harmed. But we have no way to deliver the hurt.

We have the knowledge but not the means. And so this is our legacy. In subspace, they cannot use their shields. And into subspace they can be tracked.

Quote from: Campaign End
I know why the Ancient ones were destroyed and I know what they knew. I know that if not for the Shivans, they would have perished long before. Without the Shivans, someone would have discovered the Ancients in their infancy, and eliminated them, just surely as they eliminated countless billions of others.

I believe it is only the destroyers who are killed. The Shivans are the great destroyers but they are also the great preservers. That is why when we moved into space there was no one powerful enough to kill us. Long had we been the destroyer. Our turn had nearly come.

In the Vasudan war, we learned how to adapt, we learned how to study our enemy, we learned how to overcome, we learned how to survive. And so we did.

All the jump points from Earth are gone. But the Shivans can rebuild them. I'm told we can expect them again, but not in my lifetime. Such is liberation.

Assuming that this information is accurate, the Shivans attacked the Ancients because of their aggressive, expansionist nature; faction that prevents the evolution of other factions. Alternative interpretation is rampant subspace usage, but I find that somewhat unlikely.

Does Ubuntu and by extension UEF fulfill that description?


Now consider which faction has better chances of survival: One that attracts the attention of unstoppable destroyers yet has the military capacity to deter them for a given period of time before total collapse, or one that doesn't have quite as much military capacity and under attack would crumble faster, but doesn't attract the attention of the Shivans?

Of course there's the possibility that the Shivans are just doing it for the lulz but I doubt it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2010, 05:37:45 am
Quote
Not total chaos. The GTA disintegrated into semi-autonomous regional blocs.
Anytime you remove a central authority from an area like that the results are never pretty. Somalia is a good example of that.
Yes. But canonically that's not what happened.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Spoon on August 20, 2010, 07:03:45 am
Quote
Quote
Trashman is, like many do, simply applying the label to something he doesn't like without regard to the term's meaning.

Nevermind that FS is more or less built around the concept of a wish-fulfilment story being a first-person combat flight sim with an AFGNCAAP protagonist and therefore a Mary Sue is the best form of character to represent the player.

Bollocks.
FS 1 and 2 is not about Alpha1. You're not a super-special snowlake. Just a talented pilot.
The difference is so obvious I shouldn't even have to write this...

You fail again NGTM-1R
You fail at reading comprehension Trashman. NGTM-1R didn't say that Alpha one Is a mary sue. But that a mary sue is the best form of character to represent the player in this genre.

Quote
SOTS also didn't have Chosen Mary Sues and prophetic visions.
Quote from: Wikipedia
A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy  for the author or reader. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious  for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet".
I don't really feel Bei or Laporte fall in that catagory...

Check the definition on TV TROPES.

Mary Sue is not purely about power - but how other characters react around the Sue.
Pretty much the whole universe revolves around Bei and even moreso Laporte, especially since we keep getting reminded how important and "speshul" they are.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue Read the article again, please do tell how many of these points even apply to Laporte. Cause I can't find much.
I'm getting the impression though, that trying to argue with you is pretty much futile on this point.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 20, 2010, 09:00:32 am
Check the definition on TV TROPES.

Quote
The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.

Well, female bit that sure as hell ain't Bei. Neither of them are idealized wish-fulfillment versions of Darius as far as you or I know. And Noemi is a pyschopath and thus hardly somebody anyone here wants to be (I would hope). The names are not exotic for the setting. The character's talent is specifically tied to the players so I suppose if you've decided the REAL Bei/Laporte is actually controlled by QD that could be an argument (but that's a stupid decision) and the wide variety of areas isn't even touched on. They do both talk to things that aren't there for most people and the things talk back too, but this is one of a large number of possible qualifiers, and the BP team has stated specifically that they are not unique. The lack of flaws argument could be made about Bei, but on the other hand it most certainly cannot be made about Noemi.

Considering the lack of physical description, it's nearly impossible to apply traditional Mary Sue labels to either of them.

So as it stands you've managed to make a more successful, slightly, argument for Bei being a Mary Sue then for Noemi. You hit two points successfully out of eleven. 2/11. 18%. Your argument ain't doing well here Trash.

Black Hole Sue: I direct you to another trope called Little Hero Big War.

Of individual Sue Types TVTropes lists, if you wish to claim that they are God Mode Sue, this is clearly wrong for Laporte, who can actually be shot out of her fighter at one point, a first for a FreeSpace Campaign in that the player themselves can completely fail of their own accord and continue. Bei one could make that argument, but then, so could you for Alpha 1. They do both fail on occasion but never through any fault of their own, which is classic Sue symptoms. If Bei is a Sue, all player characters are Sues, so he's in good company.

Can't be Purity Sue in a combat flight sim. Let's move on.

Mary Tzu: You're not commanding anybody. I suppose you could say the player gets in on this if they've played the mission before what with their apparently divinely inspired foreknowledge. But that's the player, not the character.

Jerk Sue: Neither of these characters is a jerk. Granted Laporte is mentally unbalanced but she's not a jerk.

Possession Sue: Not possible in the setting. Unless you're gonna claim that Bei is Snipes. Which The_E has already denied most vigorously since the team says Snipes is dead.

Can't be a Copycat Sue either. Unless all player characters are.

Relationship Sue: Uh. Well, no. This usually refers to a canonical character and that didn't and can't happen.

Anti Sue: Well, I guess if you really suck at playing the game, but again that's the player and not the character.

Villian Sue: What, are you a Shivan?

Fixer Sue: references to canonical works preclude.

Thirty Sue Pileup: lol

Mary Sue is not purely about power - but how other characters react around the Sue.
Pretty much the whole universe revolves around Bei and even moreso Laporte, especially since we keep getting reminded how important and "speshul" they are.
[/quote

Bollocks.
FS 1 and 2 is not about Alpha1. You're not a super-special snowlake. Just a talented pilot.
The difference is so obvious I shouldn't even have to write this...

You fail again NGTM-1R

Only in your head, Trash. Only in your head.

So let me ask you this. Do you in fact understand the terms you throw around so casually? Are you a writer? Are you a fandom writer? Do you deal with this terminology day in and day out? I am, I am, and I do. I have some conception of what I'm actually talking about here because I need to. From whence comes your expertise on the subject?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 20, 2010, 09:13:14 am
Could we stop this mary sue stuff and get back to war in heaven please?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 20, 2010, 09:21:27 am
Second that request, over.

Trash/NGTM-1R, whilst I have my own views on the subject of discussion between the two of you, I'd like to politely ask that you take the next phases of your discussion to PMs.


Herra: I agree with your point there, although I don't think that it's apparent to the GTVA as of yet (should it be? Perhaps the Ancient monologues were never fully studied?). In their minds, I'd guess that it's a question of "When the Shivans return," rather then "Why do they keep f*cking coming back and how do we motherf*cking stop them?"
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 20, 2010, 09:49:04 am
However, consider this: Based on FS1 monologues, what kind of factions do the Shivans go after?

Multiple readings are possible. For example, meditate upon this line:

Quote
We know when we entered subspace we were trespassers.

The Ancients monologue speaks of a specific crime, a specific sin. "Now we know our crime was sin."

It speaks of such sins after their imperialist expansionist tendancies, so it is at best an extremely tortured construction that they were referring to such things. Instead, the closest that would come to an identification of sin is the trepassing.

Subspace is also mentioned in more than one of the monologues, three of them in fact, but imperialism only one.


And also, this one:

Quote
In the Vasudan war, we learned how to adapt, we learned how to study our enemy, we learned how to overcome, we learned how to survive. And so we did.

Alpha 1 lays it out. Humanity survived, the Vasudans survived, because they were strong, because they were prepared and capable of fighting for it.


And both these ignore the vital point: It doesn't matter whether you're imperialist or not. It matters only that you be curious. The Shivans do not arrive from extradimensional unreachable homes to destroy those who break their rules. They did not for the Ancients and they did not for FS2. They are here, now, and they await the unwary as they awaited Bosch's effort to find them. Even harmless exploration could bring down the wrath of the Shivans upon you. Unless you're posisting that Ubuntu is so insular it will never even explore beyond known space, some day they will meet the Shivans once more. And they will not be ready for it, they will not be able to buy they few days necessary to throw a pile of Meson bombs down the node and render themselves safe again.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: TrashMan on August 20, 2010, 10:35:35 am
Isn't that a bit of a Chosen Mary Sue thing right there?

le sigh

The trope has clearly started being overapplied when characters like Luke Skywalker or Frodo start being labeled 'Mary Sues'.

Neither Laporte nor Bei qualify.

Who said that that Frodo or Luke are Sues?
Also, weather Laporte or Bei qualify is very much debatable. I say they do.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: TrashMan on August 20, 2010, 10:45:33 am
*SNIP*

I see you quoted only PART of the definition..the one that suits you best. The other is nicely ignored.


Quote
Only in your head, Trash. Only in your head.

So let me ask you this. Do you in fact understand the terms you throw around so casually? Are you a writer? Are you a fandom writer? Do you deal with this terminology day in and day out? I am, I am, and I do. I have some conception of what I'm actually talking about here because I need to. From whence comes your expertise on the subject?

Yes, I understand the terms perfectly. No, I do not write fanfics. I have written a few short stories for my own amusement - short and original stories. Never did finish them tough.
99% of fanfic writers are out of touch with reality IMHO, so you indentifying yourself as one doesn't do nothing to improve your case.

"I write fanfic, therefore I understand this stuff because I need to".. LOL. Don't make me laugh. As if writing automaticly implies knowledge and understanding. If there were the case, the term Mary Sue wouldnt' even exist.

And the very fact that you latch on to the "Mary Sue" definition and denounce it based on sex (Bei is male, not female), makes it clear you don't really grasp the term.


EDIT: (bit late reading that last request)... Fince, if you want to talk further, PM.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ypoknons on August 20, 2010, 10:57:17 am
The thing is, we don't know exactly what the Ancients did, and we have very little information on both Shivan or Vishnan motives. Moreover, the Shivans might have 'gone rouge' after AoA, depending how you interpret the conversation and how it applies to our FS universe, and that adds another layer of complexity.

What is useful is to examine the organizations in the conflict in detail rather than use generalizations. But it's hard to evaluate both sides so early in the big picture of BP, frankly. I do have some sympathy for the UEF, I'd to examine Ubuntu society in more detail, but I doubt it's utopia.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 20, 2010, 11:30:03 am
How would the Shivans have "gone rogue" after AoA?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2010, 11:31:27 am
How would the Shivans have "gone rogue" after AoA?
Abandoned their place on the council. Giving the proverbial finger to the Vishnans.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 20, 2010, 12:02:18 pm
Quote
[...]some day they will meet the Shivans once more. And they will not be ready for it, they will not be able to buy they few days necessary to throw a pile of Meson bombs down the node and render themselves safe again.
And why do you assume that the UEF would behave the same way in an open universe as they did in isolation?

It's like saying that if someone lives all alone on an island and doesn't lock the door, then inevitably he won't lock his door even after moving into a city with high crime rate....

The Shivans didn't show up in more than four decades, so they gradually reduced their military. But with the node open again, the Shivans are no longer a nightmare from the past, but again a very real threat. And considering the role of the Elders I doubt they could talk the Jovians and Marsians out of building up their military in case of a return of the Shivans even if they wanted to. The Earthers maybe, the other two... I very much doubt it.

Just becasue they try and try to negociate with the GTVA doesn't mean they'll do the same with the Shivans. They know very well that the old GTA and PVN both tried and failed to even speak with the Shivans. And I don't think they'd put their faith in ETAK plans either, considering what happened to Bosh. That is, if the GTVA was sloppy enough in their coverup for the UEF to ever learn about that matter.

Quote
and render themselves safe again.
Didn't you just say that the Shivans will inevitably return some day? In that case there is no "safe" in your definition, just a "not in open combat at the moment".
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 20, 2010, 12:05:53 pm
Just becasue they try and try to negociate with the GTVA doesn't mean they'll do the same with the Shivans. They know very well that the old GTA and PVN both tried and failed to even speak with the Shivans. And I don't think they'd put their faith in ETAK plans either, considering what happened to Bosh. That is, if the GTVA was sloppy enough in their coverup for the UEF to ever learn about that matter.

Play Mission 11 again, and look at the techroom afterwards.....

Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2010, 12:07:23 pm
Pretty nice gift.

:shaking:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 20, 2010, 12:18:43 pm
And why do you assume that the UEF would behave the same way in an open universe as they did in isolation?

Why do you assume they won't? The military was not neglected because they didn't need it. If they really thought they didn't need a military we wouldn't have a WiH at all. The UEF has multiple destroyers and a swarm of frigates large enough to count as a serious force.

The military was neglected because by its existence it goes against Ubuntu's ideals. The lack of an existing threat compounds the problem, but let's be honest here: for the size of the resources available to them, the UEF has a very respectable force. It's simply also a very poorly designed force to fight the Shivans. Since the Shivans were the only reasonable threat the UEF military could have been designed to fight, this does not say good things about their tactical and strategic thought or the ability of the UEF as a society to produce the kind of people needed to fight such a war. They haven't made nearly the same scale of technical innovation the GTVA has in longer period of time then the GTVA did; no beam cannon, no Kayser, many of their weapons are almost retrograde in terms of sophistication with their reliance on projectiles.

The evidence that Ubuntu will keep pace enough to mount a credible defense just isn't there.

Didn't you just say that the Shivans will inevitably return some day? In that case there is no "safe" in your definition, just a "not in open combat at the moment".

True. But there is temporary safety; successfully defending yourself and shutting entry points. Eventually you might run out of room, but maybe not. It seems unlikely that known space is completely ringed with Shivans.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 20, 2010, 12:49:49 pm
I think the UEF could cut it in a war with the Shivans, however it all depends on if they want to devote Sol to being the arsenal of survival for Terrans and Vasudans.  They have the industry, economy, and R&D capability, however it is unclear if they are willing to actually utilize those resources in the capacity and quantity needed for a total war of survival.  The naivete of the Elders about pressing for a diplomatic solution without having the means to force the GTVA to the bargaining table speaks poorly for their ability to ensure the survival of Sol against a foe who gives no quarter and no mercy, such as the Shivans.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 20, 2010, 12:53:08 pm
Quote
no Kayser, many of their weapons are almost retrograde in terms of sophistication with their reliance on projectiles

The Rapier performs as well as the Kayser. Weapons like the Sidhe and UX Accelerator arguably outstrip it. And it's hard to call those projectile weapons obsolete when so many of them (UX Accelerator and Redeemer, for instance) are highly sophisticated antimatter-cored weapons.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 20, 2010, 12:55:58 pm
Quote
no Kayser, many of their weapons are almost retrograde in terms of sophistication with their reliance on projectiles

The Rapier performs as well as the Kayser. Weapons like the Sidhe and UX Accelerator arguably outstrip it. And it's hard to call those projectile weapons obsolete when so many of them (UX Accelerator and Redeemer, for instance) are highly sophisticated antimatter-cored weapons.

I was more specifically singling out their shipboard main batteries. :P I'm not saying they're obselete; I'm saying they're low-technology solutions. You run out of those a lot faster.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 20, 2010, 12:59:55 pm
Quote
no Kayser, many of their weapons are almost retrograde in terms of sophistication with their reliance on projectiles

The Rapier performs as well as the Kayser. Weapons like the Sidhe and UX Accelerator arguably outstrip it. And it's hard to call those projectile weapons obsolete when so many of them (UX Accelerator and Redeemer, for instance) are highly sophisticated antimatter-cored weapons.

I was more specifically singling out their shipboard main batteries. :P I'm not saying they're obselete; I'm saying they're low-technology solutions. You run out of those a lot faster.

Yeah, with the exception of their CIWS the UEF warship guns definitely underperform their GTVA counterparts.

That said...they can do things the GTVA weapons can't. They're much better at knocking out turrets and subsystems from range, for one. Makes me curious as to how UEF ships would perform versus Shivans; somebody should FRED up a mission.

Speculating about performance vs. the Shivans is going to be difficult simply because the Shivans are so unpredictable, both in terms of their tactics and their technological development. Who knows what they'll be shooting at us if they show up again?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Qent on August 20, 2010, 01:15:45 pm
In addition to the subsystem-sniping capships, the UEF also has some pretty tough fighters, bombers, and frigates to carry them. Shivans already have trouble with GTVA fighters.

However, I would like to see how GTVA tactics and hardware from WiH perform against Shivans. SSMs, Maxim strikes, and popup Trebuchet strikes are really cool; and I've never seen them used explicitly before now. :(
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 20, 2010, 01:22:18 pm
Quote
no Kayser, many of their weapons are almost retrograde in terms of sophistication with their reliance on projectiles

The Rapier performs as well as the Kayser. Weapons like the Sidhe and UX Accelerator arguably outstrip it. And it's hard to call those projectile weapons obsolete when so many of them (UX Accelerator and Redeemer, for instance) are highly sophisticated antimatter-cored weapons.

I was more specifically singling out their shipboard main batteries. :P I'm not saying they're obselete; I'm saying they're low-technology solutions. You run out of those a lot faster.
I'm reminded of Stargate here: "Our weapons may be primitive, but they are effective."  I'm pretty sure the UEF could make main batteries that outstrip the capabilities of GTVA beam cannons if they had the desire, and more importantly, the time.  A Solaris destroyer with a spinal high-caliber railgun meant for anti-destroyer combat would be simply frightening with the range and damage potential of that weapon, especially backed up by the potent on-board CIWS to deter fighters and bombers.  Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a ***** in space after all.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 20, 2010, 01:32:27 pm
Hey, if low-tech works, sticking to low tech makes sense.
Less likely for **** to mess up.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 20, 2010, 01:36:36 pm
In addition to the subsystem-sniping capships, the UEF also has some pretty tough fighters, bombers, and frigates to carry them. Shivans already have trouble with GTVA fighters.

You're forgetting the reason UEF fighters perform so well is because they're designed for all these things at the expense of staying power, where the GTVA went the other way to stand off endless waves of Shivan fightercraft. UEF fighter screens would most likely crumble under sustained pressure that the GTVA couldn't afford to apply but the Shivans can.

Hey, if low-tech works, sticking to low tech makes sense.

Yeah, but Battuta accidentally illustrated my point by pointing out the antimatter-based projectile applications. Once you've gotten there, you're more or less deadended. You can't make a fundementally better weapon.  Projectile-based technology is tapped out and would be very difficult to further improve upon.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 20, 2010, 01:40:00 pm
In addition to the subsystem-sniping capships, the UEF also has some pretty tough fighters, bombers, and frigates to carry them. Shivans already have trouble with GTVA fighters.

You're forgetting the reason UEF fighters perform so well is because they're designed for all these things at the expense of staying power, where the GTVA went the other way to stand off endless waves of Shivan fightercraft. UEF fighter screens would most likely crumble under sustained pressure that the GTVA couldn't afford to apply but the Shivans can.

Indeed. UEF ships have much shorter operational lifespans and fuel endurance. Plus they're not designed with intersystem drives in mind (yet).

Quote
Hey, if low-tech works, sticking to low tech makes sense.

Yeah, but Battuta accidentally illustrated my point by pointing out the antimatter-based projectile applications. Once you've gotten there, you're more or less deadended. You can't make a fundementally better weapon.  Projectile-based technology is tapped out and would be very difficult to further improve upon.
[/quote]

Well the Vishnans found a way.  :nervous:
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 20, 2010, 02:24:22 pm
Not at all. The GTVA pretty much build their newer ships the same way the Shivans did. Massively powerfull beams forward. Lots of cheap fighters. And only few high-class fighters. And that mass of cheap low-performance fighters was slaughtered by the UEF fighters. And it would be the same with Shivan fighters.

And who sais that the UEF weapons can't be improved? Maybe they only contain very, very small amounts of anti-matter and once the containment technologies are improved that amount could be increased a great deal, resulting in damage beyond even the blue beams. Or maybe not. There's not enough data (that I'm aware of anyway) to judge.
Besides it would be sensible to assume that there are different kinds of anti-matter, since there are different kinds of matter. Maybe using other "anti-elements" produces different effects on the target.
And even if the warhead can't be improved, the other parts of the torpedos can be.  To give some ideas: Faster, thougher, faster lock-on, fitted with an onboard computer that flys a zig-zag course to make it less likely the bomb is shot down, reduced size without sacrificing payload (less likely to be shot down and the ability to carry more of them) or maybe even stealth...

And projectile bases weapons can also be improved by increasing projectile speed, size and rate of fire. Or possibly the other way around, reducing the size of the weapon while retaining the damage output, enabling them to fit more of them into a ship.

Quote
They haven't made nearly the same scale of technical innovation the GTVA has in longer period of time then the GTVA did
The GTVA didn't really innovate that much. Beams are copied from the Shivans. Kaysers? Copy from Shivan technology. Balor? Basically a downscaled Kayser and thus another Shivan copy. FLAK? Now those they developed on their own, but so did the UEF, just a different kind of FLAK. Bombs and torpedoes? Just bigger, more advanced versions based on the same principal as the old FS1 era weapons.
The UEF on the other hands build their torpedoes and bombs on another principal and developed railguns - both fighter and capship based - without any Shivan "help".

And I think the UEF would do very well against the Shivans (unless they totally change fighting style from the FS2 era), because the UEF takes the advantages the GTVA has over the Shivans and brings them to a new level. The Shivans have far poorer point defense than the GTVA (except FS2 era destroyers) which makes the UEFs torpedos even more of a threat.
And Shivan ships tend to have "soft" turrets and the beams concentrated forward. That makes them vulnerable to the UEFs strength: disarming turrets from long range. Unless the Shivan beams have a considerbly longer range than the GTVA beams.
Quote
You're forgetting the reason UEF fighters perform so well is because they're designed for all these things at the expense of staying power where the GTVA went the other way to stand off endless waves of Shivan fightercraft.
What do you mean with staying power? And why should the UEF fighters be less capable of destroying massive numbers of Shivan fighters than their GTVA counterparts?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 20, 2010, 02:31:29 pm
Meson bombs bro.
Meson bombs.

UEF don't even know what they are as evidenced in The Blade Itself.
Also happens to be one of the better ways to stop Shivans from killing your ass, at least temporarily.

What do you mean with staying power? And why should the UEF fighters be less capable of destroying massive numbers of Shivan fighters than their GTVA counterparts?

Shorter staying power in that they weren't designed for extended periods of operation?
Less fuel/supplies carried onboard so they can't go on as long of tours without resupply (a UEF battlegroup probably wouldn't have lasted the events of AoA cause they don't have logistics ship designs like the Anemoi)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 20, 2010, 02:33:40 pm
The UEF fighters have lesser endurance than GTVA fighters, like Battuta said they're high maintenance and have low fuel reserves, plus they suffer a higher degree of relative wear and tear compared to their Tev counterparts.  The UEF builds lots of F-35's, and the Tevs crank out MiG's and Sukhois.  Who will fare better in the attrition warfare the Shivans fight?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 20, 2010, 03:37:16 pm
The Generation 1 Threat Exigency Initiative ships on the GTVA side were simply designed to provide cheap, plentiful screen fighters against Shivan bomber attacks. The Kulas is emblematic of that approach, while the Aurora has so many capabilities as a utility ship it's not even funny (I'd love to complete the AI component of the FRED spells system and give Auroras some spells.)

The Generation 2 fighters are much higher-performance and are meant to eventually make up the meet of the next gen GTVA fleet.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 20, 2010, 04:03:05 pm
Herra: I agree with your point there, although I don't think that it's apparent to the GTVA as of yet (should it be? Perhaps the Ancient monologues were never fully studied?). In their minds, I'd guess that it's a question of "When the Shivans return," rather then "Why do they keep f*cking coming back and how do we motherf*cking stop them?"

It's hard to say what the Ancient Monologues actually were. They could have been recorded pieces of Ancient history from the sources recovered during the Great War, or they could have been exclusively experienced by the player character - Alpha 1 of the Great War.

If the former is right, it's hard to understand why they would not have been extensively studied. On the other hand, if they were exclusively experienced by Alpha 1, GTVA would never have known them since Alpha 1 was stuck in Sol. This is, in my opinion reinforced by Alpha 1's campaign ending monologue which is spoken entirely in the first person.

Lacking this information, it is easy to understand why GTVA would rather prepare for the next Shivan onslaught than try to remove the Shivans' reason to come after humanity again. It's not a logically wrong conclusion, but one borne with insufficient information.

Quote from: NGTM1-R
The Ancients monologue speaks of a specific crime, a specific sin. "Now we know our crime was sin."

It speaks of such sins after their imperialist expansionist tendancies, so it is at best an extremely tortured construction that they were referring to such things. Instead, the closest that would come to an identification of sin is the trepassing.

Subspace is also mentioned in more than one of the monologues, three of them in fact, but imperialism only one.


It is, of course, a possibility that simply usage of subspace will attract the attention of Shivans. It is possible that subspace travel has prolems that are unknown to humans and Vasudans, but Shivans are aware of and try to prevent them the only way they can, or maybe the simplest.

In this interpretation, subspace nodes would be weak points in space-time structure and subspace travel through them would exacerbate the problem when the vortices would poke holes in it even further weakening it. This would further explain why Shivans themselves seem to not be dependant on nodes - possibly they can travel without them.

However, they do use nodes when it is convenient to them.

Or it could be a method to get someone to explode something big (like a Lucifer or a Meson bomb) inside a node in order to collapse it.

This however presents a new problem - if it is subspace travel that attracts Shivans' attention - why don't they simply go and collapse the nodes themselves?

Why the interest in glassing planets (prime example being Vasuda Prime) and the overall destructive nature (exploding a star in a system full of fleeing refugees)?


Of course, like I said earlier it's just possible that Shivans do it for the lulz. In that case, that would be their sole motive, making them truly impossible to negotiate with. However, I sincerely doubt it and think they have some underlying reason for their selection of targets, and it isn't just subspace travel.


Quote
Alpha 1 lays it out. Humanity survived, the Vasudans survived, because they were strong, because they were prepared and capable of fighting for it.

Indeed.

This invokes the question: Could they have survived, had the not been capable of working together to defeat their common enemy?


Quote
And both these ignore the vital point: It doesn't matter whether you're imperialist or not. It matters only that you be curious. The Shivans do not arrive from extradimensional unreachable homes to destroy those who break their rules. They did not for the Ancients and they did not for FS2. They are here, now, and they await the unwary as they awaited Bosch's effort to find them. Even harmless exploration could bring down the wrath of the Shivans upon you. Unless you're posisting that Ubuntu is so insular it will never even explore beyond known space, some day they will meet the Shivans once more. And they will not be ready for it, they will not be able to buy they few days necessary to throw a pile of Meson bombs down the node and render themselves safe again.

I don't see why curiosity alone would cause Shivans to annihilate your species. Unless they indeed pretty much just do it because they can.

Besides, how do you know Shivans don't arrive from extradimensional unreachable homes to destroy those who break the rules? In Blue Planet continuity there is already two confirmed cases of inter-dimensional travel - the 14th Battlegroup to the universe where Lucifer glassed Earth, and Sanctuary coming back to FreeSpace Proper universe (BP continuity, of course). So, given that in Blue Planet continuity interdimensional travel is possible, that sort of makes your argument less solid.

As far as being ready for Shivans goes - UEF and GTVA are pretty much on par on their level of ability to seriously deter Shivans should they desire to annihilate them. GTVA might survive for some time longer (mostly because they are spread wider and could slow Shivans with collapsing nodes) - but then, safety from Shivans by collapsing nodes is questionable at best, knowing Shivans' cited ability to rebuild nodes, and even before that, their appearance in Ross 128, likely through a node undetected to GTA observations.

If Shivans decided to destroy humanity and Vasudans, there would be no stopping them. They would find ways around stopgap measures like destroyed nodes and such.

If they do it for the lulz (or, in your words, just to punish for simple curiosity) all is lost, and I don't believe in the no-win scenario.

Therefore I prefer to think they have a reason for doing what they do, and that's either the Subspace Argument (subspace travel is dangerous and Shivans prevent it, thus saving the universe) or the Rulebreaker Argument (Shivans monitor activities of sentient space-faring species and nullify those that present significant enough threats to other space-faring species).

Maybe not the strongest argument for it, but hey, this is a fictional universe with no confirmed canon solution to the problem of Shivans' motives, so all interpretations of the few vague hints are equally valid as long.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 20, 2010, 04:18:26 pm
I believe FreeSpace canon supplies a complete explanation of Shivan motives circa FS1, namely that they act to destroy species which are a threat to other species, and to incentivize cooperation between species (thus earning a reprieve.)

As of the end of FS1, that's canonically what the Shivans were: protectors of galactic diversity.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 20, 2010, 04:20:12 pm
Besides, how do you know Shivans don't arrive from extradimensional unreachable homes to destroy those who break the rules?

Mainly because as I pointed out, the evidence is strongly against it. The Ancients speak of an offensive phase, of attacking a Shivan system and failing to take it and withdrawing. Bosch's recon of the nebula found Shivans already there, and Into The Lion's Den proves that they did not emerge into the nebula fully formed; they came from beyond it, where they have holdings in real space including the only fixed Shivan objects we've ever seen.

If the Shivans can simpy arrive from another dimension then the fact they have always emerged before the leading edge of their opponent's expansion seems both counterproductive to them and unlikely at best.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 20, 2010, 07:52:47 pm
Quote
This would further explain why Shivans themselves seem to not be dependant on nodes - possibly they can travel without them.

I forget the exact quote, but somewhere early in the FS2 campaign, Petrarch says in one of the CBs, "We know... [don't remember this part] Shivans are just as dependent on nodes as we are."
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: General Battuta on August 20, 2010, 08:12:11 pm
Quote
This would further explain why Shivans themselves seem to not be dependant on nodes - possibly they can travel without them.

I forget the exact quote, but somewhere early in the FS2 campaign, Petrarch says in one of the CBs, "We know... [don't remember this part] Shivans are just as dependent on nodes as we are."

I think it's late in the campaign, actually, and he says that the Shivans make use of unstable or ephemeral nodes.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dark Hunter on August 20, 2010, 08:14:56 pm
The Shivans, I think, can traverse more unstable nodes, which don't appear on the nodemap because the GTVA doesn't bother documenting nodes they can't use.

This is how the Lucifer continuously outmaneuvered everyone in FS1.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dr. Pwnguin on August 20, 2010, 10:40:50 pm
I think a more important question is why Sol was left alone during the second Shivan Incursion? If the Shivans can actually go with Sub-Space travel without the use of a node then it stands to reason that the UEF somehow is not on their Agenda.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Droid803 on August 21, 2010, 12:33:56 am
I think a more important question is why Sol was left alone during the second Shivan Incursion? If the Shivans can actually go with Sub-Space travel without the use of a node then it stands to reason that the UEF somehow is not on their Agenda.

The Shivans came from the nebula, they never expressed any desire to go further than Capella.
The rest of the GTVA wasn't on their agenda, even.

Sol is just about as special as Wolf 359 or Beta Cyngi in that regard.

Sorry, the Shivans didn't avoid Sol because of the UEF. They avoided most of Terran/Vasudan space for some other reason. Or rather, they were quite fixated on Capella...

Quote
This would further explain why Shivans themselves seem to not be dependant on nodes - possibly they can travel without them.

I forget the exact quote, but somewhere early in the FS2 campaign, Petrarch says in one of the CBs, "We know... [don't remember this part] Shivans are just as dependent on nodes as we are."

I think it's late in the campaign, actually, and he says that the Shivans make use of unstable or ephemeral nodes.

Its when they're discussing the meson bomb plan.
"The shivans may use unstable and uncharted jump nodes, but they're just as dependant on them as we are". (paraphrased, but that's what he says)
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 21, 2010, 02:00:00 am
Not at all. The GTVA pretty much build their newer ships the same way the Shivans did. Massively powerfull beams forward.

Do you seriously think the GTVA would be so foolish as to rely only on beams that fire forward? Take a closer look at the weapons mounted on the Raynor, which was originally designed so that at least 50% of its overall firepower can be projected in almost any direction.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 21, 2010, 03:07:15 am
Yep, but the Chimera and the Bellerophon just don't have a single side beam, and the Titan only have a couple of slash beams. The Raynor is the exception in the new ship designs, along with the new Diomedes. It is made clear in the tech description that the GTVA expect a lot from their adaptation of the Shivans' shock jump tactics.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Dilmah G on August 21, 2010, 03:55:57 am
Yeah, that was as a result of Steele.

I think the GTVA may have to rethink its M.O. should the Shivans arrive again. The design of a ship such as the Deimos was probably the most practical design of the time period. As the GTVA were generally being shock-jumped by the Shivans, a ship such as the Deimos with its beams having a wide arc of fire and killzones to both sides would've been better suited to fend off Shivan jumps.

With their current beam placement, Terran ships would have to break formation immediately and face the threat if they were shock jumped. Assuming their maneuverability is high, this should be fairly attainable, however in practice I wouldn't be surprised if Terran ships weren't able to get a shot off.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 21, 2010, 04:26:13 am
Those ships are made for aggressive manoeuvres, not defensive ones. The best defence is a good offence. You can't be shock jumped if you have already taken down the enemy ships.

Not that I really think this tactic is really viable, but that's definitely what was in GTVA's mind when they designed those ships. The biggest Shivan threat being juggernauts, shock jumps are the best way to take them out.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Flak on August 21, 2010, 04:39:24 am
Those Chimera and Bellerophon are meant to do those subspace jump attacks, which they do very well. But otherwise, they do left their broadside and rear defenseless to enemy capital ships (though they do have some AAA beams to swat light fighter assaults). But that is not all, since they also have the Diomedes which is just the exact opposite. It may lack the big guns, but it has the ability to engage enemies on its broadside. Of course we are not forgetting they still have their good old Deimos.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: TrashMan on August 21, 2010, 04:48:23 am
I think people read too much into the FS monologues. They are there for flare and atmosphere. Not some visions by Alpha 1.

Not to mention we never saw any ability of the shivans to create new nodes.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 21, 2010, 04:54:16 am
... what does it have to do in this topic ?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Ypoknons on August 21, 2010, 06:54:23 am
Those ships are made for aggressive manoeuvres, not defensive ones. The best defence is a good offence. You can't be shock jumped if you have already taken down the enemy ships.

Not that I really think this tactic is really viable, but that's definitely what was in GTVA's mind when they designed those ships. The biggest Shivan threat being juggernauts, shock jumps are the best way to take them out.
Cavalry, basically. Great when charging flanks, not so good in prolonged battle or if charged in their own flanks. Would be much more effective once the rapid jump technology is mass deployed.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Scotty on August 21, 2010, 07:31:54 am
... what does it have to do in this topic ?

It was a few pages back.  He probably hit reply without checking the latest page.  I think we've all done that at least once.

That said, his post is still mostly his own brand of fanspec, so I'm not sure how relevant it would be even then.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 21, 2010, 12:19:20 pm
i personally think saying they were there just as part of the game package is less fanspec than saying they were visions or historical records.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: -Norbert- on August 21, 2010, 12:34:26 pm
Quote
I believe FreeSpace canon supplies a complete explanation of Shivan motives circa FS1, namely that they act to destroy species which are a threat to other species, and to incentivize cooperation between species (thus earning a reprieve.)

As of the end of FS1, that's canonically what the Shivans were: protectors of galactic diversity.
But on the other hand, the Shivans continued to attack even after the GTA and PVN allied. They could have stopped right there and then, or shortly after the attack on Vasuda (The way the Terrans helped then is, in my opinion, the main reason why they formed the GTVA instead of splitting up after the last Shivan remnants were destroyed. That and the fear of another Shivan attack maybe.). But despite asuring the survival of both species, the Shivans didn't stop, but tried to take down Earth too. Now maybe they just wanted to make sure both species suffered the same fate and would have left after glassing Earth, but somehow I doubt that.

It's almost like those "hordes" from different fantasy settings, that can't stop of their own accord once the rampage is started. Only if they are defeated or attain total victory do they get themselfs under controll again.
Though FreeSpace 2 clearly discourages such a theory, since then the Shivans didn't rampage across TV space, but seems to be after some very specific goal(s) and "only" wiped out anything standing between them and it.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 21, 2010, 12:53:29 pm
If they had stopped immediately, things would have gone back to the way they were at once. They had to force integration, not just peace.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 21, 2010, 02:07:11 pm
Hey, how many integrated missions are there in the game?

Just one. Good Luck. :P
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 22, 2010, 02:57:33 am
Integrated? Like FS2's Clash of the Titans II-Apocalypse?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Tarond on August 22, 2010, 05:18:17 am
I have downloaded  yesterday " War in Heaven" and the new mediavps version as well as the AoA-updates. Unfortunately, the following error message comes after the Intro:
---------------------------
Error!
---------------------------
Could not load in FictionViewer-m!
<no module>! RtlDeactivateActivationContextUnsafeFast
<no module>! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>

[ This info is in the clipboard so you can paste it somewhere now ]


Use Ok to break into Debugger, Cancel to exit.

---------------------------
OK   Abbrechen   
---------------------------


If I on OK press I come to the mission briefing, however, can not accept there.

Have you some Idea's what I made wrong and how i can play War in Heaven?
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 22, 2010, 05:19:33 am
Please set the resolution to 1024x768 or higher.
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: Burdokva on August 22, 2010, 05:36:23 am
I recently finished Blue Planet: AoA, the first campaign I've played since returning to FSII, and it was spectacular! War in Heaven looks even better, visual-wise, but I'd appreciate an honest answer on this - how does the campaign fare without voice-acting?

I have tired eyes and reading through a lot of text from the monitor is quite tiresome, even when there's a lot of VO. So I'm wondering if I should play it now and enjoy it as-is, even if i would strain me a little, or wait for something like AoA's Director Cut? 
Title: Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Post by: The E on August 22, 2010, 05:42:30 am
I have tired eyes and reading thro