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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: -Joshua- on August 23, 2010, 08:41:50 am

Title: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: -Joshua- on August 23, 2010, 08:41:50 am
Anything would do (except Flight Simulator, because I already got that one :P). I am bassicly for a good helicopter sim, preferably one which features blowing up stuff.

Any recommendations?

EDIT: Now... I'd like to fly jet planes too (WW2 is okay, but I want some variation), any recommendations? (Except HAWX, which isn't a sim).
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 23, 2010, 08:54:41 am
Black Shark or Lock-On Modern Air Combat: Flaming Cliffs 2 (which amalgamates LOMAC, Flaming Cliffs 1 and Black Hawk into one game).
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: Dilmah G on August 23, 2010, 09:07:53 am
Dude, everyone knows Hind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hind_%28video_game%29) is the only Helo sim. ;)
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: Sushi on August 23, 2010, 09:18:48 am
Gunship 2000, baby!

Crap, I think I just dated myself. :p

I hear that Jane's Longbow 2 is pretty good as well.
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: mxlm on August 23, 2010, 10:49:23 am
People say good things about the two Enemy Engaged titles.
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: Nuke on August 23, 2010, 11:02:47 am
i was gonna buy dcs blackshark then i found out it had some crappy drm (it uses starforce) that only lets you activate the game 3 times before it locks it down. its so bad i wouldnt install it on my computer if you gave me a free copy. then i thought about pirating it, but the installation procedure was so complex that i said **** it. ive always wanted a realistic, modern, combat chopper sim. its such a shame to finally get one, then have it raped my drm. ****ing games industry.
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: General Battuta on August 23, 2010, 11:20:43 am
battlefield twoooooooooooooooo
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: Thaeris on August 23, 2010, 11:57:01 am
Battuta, that's not a realistic simulation...

:p

However, if you're going for a mixture of realism and simplified physics, ARMA 2 isn't bad. Although the little things demonstrated that it wasn't going to take the cake for accuracy (as well as being inherently simplified for integration into what ARMA truly is - an infantry simulation), the overall feel of flight is very lively, which makes it highly enjoyable. That said, it's worth a look - you can get the demo on ARMA's website.

As far as realistic flight without the combat, you might consider X-Plane, which is constantly improving. You might hold off on buying it though, as X-Plane 10 should be coming along in the near future. And then you might want to wait until the price comes down/the bugs are sorted out. Whatever you do, X-Plane is a great investment... And should you want to fly a chopper that you can't get or doesn't exist, you can always make your own.  :cool:
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: General Battuta on August 23, 2010, 12:08:34 pm
Battuta, that's not a realistic simulation...

What are you talking about? It's the only sim I know of where you can do a backflip, jump out, fall, and then catch the helicopter on the way down and get back into the cockpit.

I seriously doubt the realism of any sim that doesn't let you do that.  :blah:
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: Nuke on August 23, 2010, 12:12:08 pm
i could attatch some bottle rockets to my chinese made r/c helicopter.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: -Joshua- on August 23, 2010, 12:29:49 pm
Lock on looks nice enough, especially since it has jets too.

Anything else on that department?
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Mobius on August 23, 2010, 05:08:07 pm
Strike Fighters?
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: StarSlayer on August 23, 2010, 05:36:49 pm
Haven't played it but it looks pretty decent... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q4r9968s3o)
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 23, 2010, 11:49:26 pm
lock-on is a good one.  though to be honest, i've heard bad things about flaming cliffs 2.  if you're not going to play multiplayer regularly, i'd stick with the original lock-on.  good game, but Eagle Dynamics doesn't have the first clue how to properly handle releases.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Scooby_Doo on August 24, 2010, 03:25:09 am
Haven't played it but it looks pretty decent... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q4r9968s3o)

That does look very nice  :eek:
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: newman on August 24, 2010, 03:37:04 am
ARMA2 isn't a sim, though, and if you're looking for a pure helicopter or fighter jet sim it's not going to satisfy. It's more of a FPS with the ability to fly but don't expect too much realism there. The way flight control is handled leaves a lot to be desired too.
The game itself is fun, though, it's just not really a flight sim in any serious sense of the word. Also, the single player campaign was extremely buggy back when I tried the game - to the point of being unplayable. Not sure if they fixed that by now.
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: Dilmah G on August 24, 2010, 04:40:57 am
battlefield twoooooooooooooooo
gtfo bf n00b :P

Right. So. Jet Sims.

Lock On: Modern Air Combat.
Falcon 4.0: Allied Force.

Are two of the better ones I've played (as have the other posters). I haven't played Flaming Cliffs so I can't say much about that. Warning with the two of them though, if you haven't had much to do with this genre, they might require some serious effort from you. One of our F/A18E pilots once said "Anyone can fly a Hornet, but not everyone can operate one." Games like LOMAC and F4 model the systems of their aircraft to a reasonable degree, so you'll be able to witness the truth of that pilot's statement with regards to modern military aircraft. Of the two of them, F4 is the one I found to be harder, but as with all things it'll be easier to those who have a genuine interest in it. And of course, the more you play the better you'll get.

It's been years and years since I've played X-Plane (ran like a ***** on my ol' Windows 98), so I don't know how good that's turned out.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on August 24, 2010, 05:54:56 am
Free Falcon is great : www.freefalcon.com
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: -Joshua- on August 24, 2010, 06:22:02 am
i was gonna buy dcs blackshark then i found out it had some crappy drm (it uses starforce) that only lets you activate the game 3 times before it locks it down. its so bad i wouldnt install it on my computer if you gave me a free copy. then i thought about pirating it, but the installation procedure was so complex that i said **** it. ive always wanted a realistic, modern, combat chopper sim. its such a shame to finally get one, then have it raped my drm. ****ing games industry.

Guess what.

Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 1 has Starforce. It will only run on Xp or lower as a consequence.
/me growls.

Oh well, let's just uninstall that one, LOMAC and then crack it.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: -Joshua- on August 24, 2010, 06:26:32 am
Did some digging on Falcon. Apperently, you will need the original 4.0 to install stuff like Free Falcon or Open Falcon, and then there is the  'official' Allied Force version of Falcon 4.0. And they are all incompatible with each other. hmm..

Anyone with experience on this? What do you recommend?
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Dilmah G on August 24, 2010, 06:38:56 am
I've only played Allied Force, but I'd recommend you use that as a point at which to at least get to grips with the Falcon and/or decide whether or not it's for you before pursuing the other games in the series.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Nuke on August 24, 2010, 02:57:24 pm
i was gonna buy dcs blackshark then i found out it had some crappy drm (it uses starforce) that only lets you activate the game 3 times before it locks it down. its so bad i wouldnt install it on my computer if you gave me a free copy. then i thought about pirating it, but the installation procedure was so complex that i said **** it. ive always wanted a realistic, modern, combat chopper sim. its such a shame to finally get one, then have it raped my drm. ****ing games industry.

Guess what.

Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 1 has Starforce. It will only run on Xp or lower as a consequence.
/me growls.

Oh well, let's just uninstall that one, LOMAC and then crack it.

i bought lock on gold which i think had lock on and the expansion, i never installed the expansion though. i installed it once, starforce gave me ****, the end result is i formatted my hard drive. i have since dedicated the cds to the "cd case full of games that no longer function". i kinda wish game developers would put a little time into the forward compatibility of their games. for games to have long life they need to be able to function with hardware and operating systems of the future.

during the interplay hayday back when most games used directx 5 and 6, there were a lot of good games, the only problem was directx 5 and 6 werent very forward compatible. after directx 9 came into being about 4/5ths of them were unplayable on anything but a nostalgia rig. in comparison games that used glide as their graphics api, about 4/5ths of those can be played with the correct wrapper. opnegl games almost never had issues with forward compatibility, quake was playable up until 64 bit oses and their new multi-interface network stacks, which really threw a monkey wrench into the way the game worked (quake uses the network interface even for single player, using the loopback port, since the game is client/server oriented, the game client is essentially its own server). still quake is playable with a source port. now we have drm which is compiled for only one specific version of windows even if the game supports another os, if the drm doesn't you're up **** creek. i think game developers should remove drm around the time they decide to stop supporting users. of course the best way to preserve forward compatibility is to release the source code.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Thaeris on August 24, 2010, 07:50:26 pm
Nuke, you're the best bad role model I've ever had.

Thank you.

 :D
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Scooby_Doo on August 24, 2010, 09:35:53 pm
ARMA2 isn't a sim, though, and if you're looking for a pure helicopter or fighter jet sim it's not going to satisfy. It's more of a FPS with the ability to fly but don't expect too much realism there. The way flight control is handled leaves a lot to be desired too.
The game itself is fun, though, it's just not really a flight sim in any serious sense of the word. Also, the single player campaign was extremely buggy back when I tried the game - to the point of being unplayable. Not sure if they fixed that by now.

I noticed that once you jumped out of the helicopter  :blah:
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Mika on August 25, 2010, 04:05:06 am
I have been flying Falcon 4 AF since 2005. OpenFalcon and FreeFalcon are available for free (and FreeFalcon doesn't require original Falcon 4 to my knowledge), while AF doesn't cost that much either. I have heard bad reports about the stability and update management from free releases, while Allied Force hasn't been updated for ages. Mostly AF is the most stabile of the branch, but lacks some of the eye-candy from the others - 2005 era ground graphics look dated, but you will not have a lot of time to watch them anyways and do their job relatively well. Be advised that strafing runs don't work in AF as the tanks are visible only at ridiculously close range - missiles and bombs are the preferred way. Other than that, prepare for a couple of months learning curve to understand how the jet itself operates. Then a couple of months for understanding how you should be fighting with it. After that it is kick-ass and never gets old. The thing is, it is infinitely replayable, as the war changes depending on what you and allied forces did and what enemy did.

The big thing is, no flight simulator has been able to recreate the feeling of being in a huge mess of air war as Falcon 4 does. I have not played the Blackshark yet, but I suspect it isn't yet up the par. The best thing you can do with AF is to fly it with your friends, the thing only gets much better by then! It really is all about immersion at the point you get hit by flak and just barely manage to fly it back to base, only after emergency landing you find that the joystick is really soaked with sweat. And talk about missions flying against the surface to air missile sites, imagine a doomsday view of thick cloud from which the missile contrails come through 40 nautical miles away, seeing allied fighters meet those missile contrails, resulting in oily smoke, fireballs and parachutes, and of course frantic radio calls. There you realize that you don't actually want to go there. After half of the strike package has been slaughtered you really start to think that maybe you actually should abort the mission.

One more thing, AI isn't exactly thick in there. It can put up some elaborate ambushes and AI wingmen do their jobs remarkably well.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: RVR72G on August 25, 2010, 08:48:56 am
Jane's USAF is also an awesome classic gem.

Also, from those who brought you Il-2: Birds of Prey
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/activision-announces-apache-air-assault (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/activision-announces-apache-air-assault)
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: General Battuta on August 25, 2010, 04:59:08 pm
I was a fairly devoted Allied Force player, and I've got to say that after it every other sim feels kind of empty.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Sushi on August 25, 2010, 05:40:03 pm
Dang, I had no idea Falcon 4 had gotten to where there's a freeware version. I played it a bit when it first came out (three-ring binder and all), but moved away when other things became more important...

The real question is: with a sim like that, do you even have a chance if you try to go kb+mouse? :)

EDIT: Holy crap, if Freefalcon is indeed free and everything it looks like it is, I may end up buying a stick after all... if I suddenly disappear, that's probably why. :)
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: General Battuta on August 25, 2010, 06:32:15 pm
I was a kb/m Allied Force player, never had much trouble. Maybe a biiiit.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Dilmah G on August 26, 2010, 03:10:01 am
I dunno how you guys do it. I <3 my stick.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Mika on August 26, 2010, 03:44:16 am
You can play Allied Force with keyboard, but the question is; why should you?

Flight sims are simply that much better with joystick. The problem with modern keyboards is also that some of them can register several keypresses at the time while some of them don't. For the last ten years, I have been flying with CH Flightstick Pro, and I don't have experience with HOTAS systems. But I can tell that even when I'm using rather simple joystick with a throttle, I still need to use keyboard a lot (switch to Dogfight override mode and select 60 vertical scanning radar mode, for example), and if I should be maneuvering in a dogfight at the same time, I think either moving or radar mode selection would not be noted by the keyboard. Luckily, AF stresses beyond visual range combat due to increased missile ranges, and that might allow for keyboard playing. In dogfights and search and destroy missions, joystick will help immensely. When aircraft is damaged, I suspect that stabilizing it is easier with a joystick.

Though most air to air engagements tend to happen in beyond visual range, that doesn't mean you don't get to shoot things with a cannon in AF. This has happened to me several times when there is no AWACS available and due to (understandable) lack of simulation of any IFF systems, I have had to proceed to visual contact and see the shape of the aircraft until it has been possible to know whether it is an enemy or not. Those cases have usually been Mig-19s or Galebs, but as long as you don't know, you can't really shoot. The other option of getting to use the gun is running out of missiles, which has happened a couple of times also  :nervous:. Of course, more advanced enemy aircraft will usually take a radar lock and lob missiles if available, and are somewhat easier to identify.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Dilmah G on August 26, 2010, 03:49:05 am
Well you lack the tactile manipulation required to make precise control inputs using a mouse and keyboard, in my opinion. I've grown up with a joystick since the age of four, and been flying as a general aviation student pilot since thirteen, so using the stick is a matter of it being an extension of my body. I don't move the stick to the right and bank as some kind of mechanical movement, I look at the direction I'm banking and bank. It's a natural thing.

I just don't feel it with a mouse. As soon as we get to the merge and things start to get dynamic, I don't want to be worrying about overbanking on a turn or something stupid with a k+m, I need my mind clear so I can operate the aircraft.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: General Battuta on August 26, 2010, 09:06:14 am
I played multi with a bunch of stick guys and they were dumbstruck when I told them I was a keyboard only player.

I think I can match/exceed any stick user (or could at my peak).
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Dilmah G on August 26, 2010, 09:39:42 am
I don't doubt that some people are good with the k/m, in fact in games like F4 where flying the aircraft is easy, I'd actually recommend it for some people.

But when you merge with a hostile in a guns only engagement, there comes a point where I think people realise it's called being a 'Stick and rudder operator' for a reason. In my opinion, you just can't feel the aircraft start to reach the edge of its limits, the aircraft coming close to stalling and that point where you realise you need to go for a different transition or increase power the same way you can with a stick. You have to rely on other factors instead of feeling it naturally.

Hell, I don't think you can feel the aircraft at all when you use the keyboard. When you use the stick, you know how much pressure you're applying or not applying, the aircraft itself is like an extension of your body. In the merge when it comes to just trying to get your gunsights over the hostile, I can see how it could be easier with a k/m since the process is somewhat simplified, but when it comes to properly flying the aircraft, I'd struggle to see how it's possible to use six keys on a keyboard to keep an aircraft flying in balance. Of course in Falcon the aircraft trims itself and you don't have to worry. :P But in any other flight sim where the flying is a bit harder, I can see it being a very large challenge to fly the aircraft in balance.

Or perhaps we look at flying in completely different ways and our viewpoints are never going to be understandable to each other. :P
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Sushi on August 26, 2010, 09:51:48 am
Well, I use kbmouse, but as I've pointed out before, I cheat... the mouse is registered as a virtual joystick. :)

Looks like I'll have to do some serious config-fu to get this to work properly with FreeFalcon though, especially because mouse is already used to look around and click on cockpit buttons...

As far as controllability, having played sims (both hardcode like Falcon and lite like FS2) with both kbmouse(virtual joystick) and a "real" stick, I can say that as far as basic flying goes, it's a wash. The only place where I really, really miss having a stick is rudder control and piles of buttons and hat switches. :) This matters quite a bit for something like Falcon, pretty much none at all for something like Freespace.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: -Joshua- on August 26, 2010, 10:02:30 am
Jane's USAF is also an awesome classic gem.

Also, from those who brought you Il-2: Birds of Prey
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/activision-announces-apache-air-assault (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/activision-announces-apache-air-assault)

Hopefully taht will be ported to PC as well, just like Birds of Prey was (It's just called Wings of Prey now :) ).

I got Falcon 4.0: AF. I need to get ready for a lot of manual reading, it appears...
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Nuke on August 26, 2010, 11:59:47 am
Nuke, you're the best bad role model I've ever had.

Thank you.

 :D

glad to be of service :D
Title: Re: Looking for a Helicopter (Combat) sim.
Post by: lostllama on August 26, 2010, 12:22:01 pm
People say good things about the two Enemy Engaged titles.

I still keep coming back to those sims. If you decide to get a copy of the first two Enemy Engaged titles (Apache Havoc and Comanche Hokum; they combine when installed so you can fly all four helos in all the campaigns), you may want to check out EECH Central (http://www.eechcentral.com/) for fan-made updates (such as extra complexity, a flyable Hind, new campaign areas, graphical updates etc).
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: chief1983 on August 26, 2010, 01:25:30 pm
I believe that either LOMAC:FC2 or BlackShark have had their DRM patched out, either by Ubisoft or the subsequent developers.  I would check on whether FC2 still has it.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Mika on August 26, 2010, 02:02:08 pm
I don't think that you need the original Falcon for OpenFalcon or FreeFalcon. My friends managed to install them alone. But that's about one and a half years ago. Try it yourself if you have a fast connection.

FreeFalcon and OpenFalcon - multiple aircraft, multiple campaigns, updated graphics. Red Viper add-on has added some stuff like SAM operators firing without radar locks in formations when the visibility is good, and other new AI tricks.
Allied Force - more stabile, but costs money (should be cheap nowadays). No updates coming - I find this good, though you might disagree. The only thing I wish they would do would be update of the graphics (especially terrain) and multiprocessor support, but no such luck. But I think it is good enough already.

Quote
Of course in Falcon the aircraft trims itself and you don't have to worry.

Except when it gets damaged and the control surfaces get stuck. If you haven't flown 30 minute returning trip to home damaged and haven't applied full banking force with all the trim maximized, you are missing something. Especially when the flight control system changes the stick gains when landing gears are extended and locked (barrel roll at ground level anyone?). I missed the runway twice but just barely managed to land the aircraft at the third attempt (declared emergency, of course).
I have also played Freespace 2 with keyboard only. Despite of that, I cannot even think of flying Allied Force without joystick. My understanding is that pilots are discouraged from applying rudder control when flying a real F-16 (exception of landing)  - above 400 kts (something) rudder doesn't even move due to FLCS intervening! That might explain your differences.

Did I miss something? Anyways, if you took Allied Force, you could fly occasionally with us. PM me about this (I live in Finland so time zones...)
Falcon 4 and derivatives really require a lot of effort in learning the simulation (this is not really a game any more), but rewards the enthusiast by never repeating itself. And that massive air war thing going on around you is something you don't find anywhere else, short of being a real pilot yourself. I'll be replying if you have some questions and/or I find out that I indeed missed something.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Mika on August 26, 2010, 02:02:54 pm
Oh yeah, Battuta, how many hours have you logged in AF?
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: chief1983 on August 26, 2010, 02:18:01 pm
Heh another Finnish flight sim junkie.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Dilmah G on August 27, 2010, 03:16:11 am
Quote
Of course in Falcon the aircraft trims itself and you don't have to worry.

Except when it gets damaged and the control surfaces get stuck. If you haven't flown 30 minute returning trip to home damaged and haven't applied full banking force with all the trim maximized, you are missing something. Especially when the flight control system changes the stick gains when landing gears are extended and locked (barrel roll at ground level anyone?).
Yeah, landings with combat damage are probably some of the hardest, most rewarding parts about Falcon. Or most hardcore sims in general.
Quote
Falcon 4 and derivatives really require a lot of effort in learning the simulation (this is not really a game any more), but rewards the enthusiast by never repeating itself.
And this is what I think is the best part about Falcon. It's not a game, it's a simulation.

If I had more time, I'd probably enjoy playing Falcon with a few other guys on here. I'm looking at buying a new HOTAS/rudder setup in the near future, so be warned, I may PM you in the future, Mika. :P

As for the mention about rudder, I was referring to the expression 'stick and rudder operator', rather than literally meaning that one had to use the rudder. ;)
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: lostllama on August 27, 2010, 07:33:39 am
I finally decided to get a copy of Falcon AF last year and have recently been going through the training missions. Still trying to get a good landing score. I think I'm OK on position and touchdown, usually anyway; much less so on speed, but I can get it to land in one piece. I have yet to cover the combat side of things in detail. So far I've only really experienced that through the instant action option.

I also have Lock On Gold and was thinking about buying Flaming Cliffs 2, but having read the possible DRM-related issues I think I'll stick with the original and AF for the time being.

(Edited for spelling correction).
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: chief1983 on August 27, 2010, 08:11:51 am
I think the DRM in FC2 was toned down.

source (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2988234/Re_OT_Flaming_Cliffs_2_Release.html#Post2988234)
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Dilmah G on August 27, 2010, 08:13:48 am
I found lengthening the downwind leg of the circuit (where you fly parallel to the runway) a fair bit quite helpful for landings the first few times (as a general thing, I can't remember how the F4 training missions are set up), since you have plenty of space to play with and get the aircraft all set up as well as a breezy looking final.

Downside being that sometimes if incorrectly executed you end up with no altitude to move around in. :P
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Nuke on August 27, 2010, 08:59:00 am
I believe that either LOMAC:FC2 or BlackShark have had their DRM patched out, either by Ubisoft or the subsequent developers.  I would check on whether FC2 still has it.

thats good to know, because there are some drm schemes i dont trust on my computer.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: chief1983 on August 27, 2010, 09:51:27 am
I hear you Nuke.  There's a lot of games I really wanted to play save for their draconian DRM.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Mika on August 27, 2010, 02:09:22 pm
Quote
I finally decided to get a copy of Falcon AF last year and have recently been going through the training missions. Still trying to get a good landing score. I think I'm OK on position and touchdown, usually anyway; much less so on speed, but I can get it to land in one piece. I have yet to cover the combat side of things in detail. So far I've only really experienced that through the instant action option.

I also have Lock On Gold and was thinking about buying Flaming Cliffs 2, but having read the possible DRM-related issues I think I'll stick with the original and AF for the time being.

(Edited for spelling correction).

About landings, I recall that the AF manual lists a wrong landing landing speed - the landing becomes tricky with such a small margin between stall and flyable condition. I usually land around 150-160 kts when undamaged - if I recall correctly. Optimal landing speed depends on the payload and the available fuel of the aircraft. I find landing easiest with just using the runway as a reference and flight path marker to show where I'm aiming at. The three landing aid lights help immensely (sink rate), they are located next to the HUD. I don't usually watch altitude or speed at all when at final.

My landings could be described like this: At approach I keep flight path marker positioned at the runway threshold and don't care much about the sink rate, when runway gets closer I pull the nose up and do slight thrust adjustments and move flight path marker to the end of the runway, and then make sure that the green ball is illuminated, doing minute thrust adjustments all the time. You might use different cues, but just make sure you have green ball (sink rate OK; landing gear withstands touchdown) next to the HUD during touchdown and you won't damage the aircraft. Also make sure that when you flare the nose of the aircraft (gun cross at the top of the HUD) doesn't exceed ~ 10 degrees so that the engine nozzle does not bury itself below the asphalt.

Once you get it down, it is really easy and becomes really a routine. I haven't crashed during landing for years.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: lostllama on August 28, 2010, 03:58:40 am
@Mika - Yes, I thought something might be wrong about the recommended landing speed (and fuel flow setting) in the manual. Also, your technique is somewhat similar to mine. Basically I line up the velocity indicator on the threshold, and use throttle to control rate of descent, only touching the joystick for minute corrections if I have to line up better, and for flaring prior to touchdown.

I have yet to try landing with a full payload though.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 28, 2010, 05:57:15 am
I wish Team Daidalos would include heat seekers on the IL-2 1946 4.10 patch... :p
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Mika on August 28, 2010, 01:27:04 pm
I wish Team Daidalos would include heat seekers on the IL-2 1946 4.10 patch... :p

Korean era heatseekers were notoriously inaccurate. Though they could be used in gaining situational advantage.
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Now wait a minute... perhaps that was just your point?

I personally don't like virtual me getting scorched with Archers fired 15 - 20 nm away. So lesson learned: don't go head on with Su-27s and expect that they don't launch missiles - sometimes I think they have made them more challenging than they actually are just for the sake of gaming and challenge. Modern all-aspect IRs are quite accurate, a fact that has to be factored in the dogfight style (don't dogfight with modern fighters).
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Now wait a minute... perhaps that was just your point again?
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Roanoke on August 28, 2010, 02:59:59 pm
I've wondered if Rockstar could muster a decent Heli game. The Apache in San Andreas was really good. I've no idea how accurate it was but the way it operated on a kind of momentum principle seemed right to me.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: chief1983 on August 29, 2010, 12:10:18 pm
The vehicle physics in the GTA series in general have been better than most arcade games.  That's why I spend so much time play MTA:SA.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Swifty on August 31, 2010, 01:00:18 am
As part of their Read It - Do It series, SimHQ's BeachAV8R has recreated the Israeli F-16 Osirak strike in Falcon Allied Force and made a badass and educational video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOPM4Bsffu8
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Thaeris on August 31, 2010, 12:39:38 pm
Well, from this, I'll state that I'm now trying to get my hands on FreeFalcon... Thank you to whoever brought the subject up. :D

...Furthermore, it seems Abandonia has an upload of Hind, should this be of service to anyone...
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: lostllama on August 31, 2010, 12:55:12 pm
Furthermore, it seems Abandonia has an upload of Hind, should this be of service to anyone...

IIRC, you may require zeckensack's Glide wrapper (http://www.zeckensack.de/glide/) in order to emulate the 3dfx Voodoo cards' native Glide API in order get Hind working on a modern computer.

EDIT: Then again, there is also the Hind available in EECH Central's update to the original Enemy Engaged series (both of which are available from GOG.com). I think the gunner's cockpit has yet to be modelled - one of the members of the EECH forum (arneh) is really good at cockpit artwork; his upcoming Apache MFDs look promising.

EDIT 2: Having done a bit more research, the above Glide wrapper doesn't seem to be a solution. Anyone interested in getting Hind to run in Win XP might want to check out the solution about half-way down this page (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2424485). Not sure about if it's possible to run it under another OS other than Win 98 and XP.
Title: Re: Looking for a Modern air combat flight sim (Helicopter or jet)
Post by: Mika on September 01, 2010, 02:18:59 pm
Quote
As part of their Read It - Do It series, SimHQ's BeachAV8R has recreated the Israeli F-16 Osirak strike in Falcon Allied Force and made a badass and educational video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOPM4Bsffu8

Ingress below 100 ft and keep on doing that for about 1000 nautical miles? Bob-up a couple of nautical miles before the reactor? Egress speed of 620 knots just above ground level, and 1800 lbs of fuel for the return trip? Quite a stunt from those Israeli! No wonder the aircraft warns of low fuel state before landing!