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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: The E on October 14, 2010, 04:06:07 am

Title: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on October 14, 2010, 04:06:07 am
So, recently I was playing Crimson Skies for the PC. And I got to thinking, would a mod set in a similar universe be cool? (Obvious answer is "Yes, dammit").

So what I'm thinking is, make an atmospheric mod, where we can have mighty sky pirates ripping at each other with 50-cal machineguns, with Zeppelins, and stuff like this:

Heh thanks,

just for kicks here is a little chicken scratch doodle of a battlecruiser and light cruiser of the same Navy as the aircraft, since aerodreadnoughts are rule of cool.

(http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1395/aerobczn0.jpg)


cookie if you can recognize Unrivalled 's lines

And in slightly more serious news, a couple older shots of some aerodreadnought "verse" capital Ships. A von Kliest Zitadelle class carrier and Gryphon Undine class light cruiser.  Neither of these are really final versions though, both have had a bit of refinement here and there especially the Zitadelle which is one of the oldest designs i did for the verse.

Zitadelle:
(http://i31.tinypic.com/250in14.jpg)

Undine:
(http://i32.tinypic.com/35mmtdg.jpg)

Other inspirations would be Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, and similar stuff.

Who'd be with me?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 14, 2010, 04:13:12 am
Holy crap this would be freaking sweet.  I'd be in if you want some string orchestra scoring.

I also do a mean Don Karnage :arrr:
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 14, 2010, 04:21:12 am
I think that if we're seriously doing this, the first thing I want to do is do some heavy concept stuff. Get the setting down and all that. Once it comes to actual modding, I'm a coder, tabler, writer and part-time FREDer; my modelling, mapping and music-ing skills are nonexistant.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Dilmah G on October 14, 2010, 04:28:16 am
Whilst I don't have the time to commit to anything (I barely have the time to wrap myself around BP stuff, as you know :P ), I'd definetely welcome this. It's been years and years since I've played Crimson Skies.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 14, 2010, 04:55:15 am
I think that if we're seriously doing this, the first thing I want to do is do some heavy concept stuff.
What? You aren't on the voice acting and superfluous details stage yet?  Get your act together, man! ;)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Fury on October 14, 2010, 06:29:38 am
If you can really get this mod underway, I might consider assisting with gameplay and tabling. I like unique mod ideas. Well, as long as it doesn't try to copy Wings and other mods like it.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: JGZinv on October 14, 2010, 11:41:59 am
There's a lot of gamers on the Xbox side that desire a sequel to Crimson Skies.
Although cartoony, Snoopy Flying Ace has several similarities.

Also you might want to look into the anime Last Exile, as it had a similar battleships
in air and combat theme throughout.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5boCKoH1Wg
You may find it worth some inspiration.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: rhettro on October 14, 2010, 11:48:17 am
I still throw my old Crimson Skys 2 disk in the XBOX 360, plays great on the widescreen.  :D

But isn't there a rumoured sequel in the works?

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/12/08/fasa-founder-buys-shadowrun-and-other-ips/
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on October 14, 2010, 11:57:27 am
I'd be very interested to see such a mod. I used to really like Airpower (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/08/09/mount-c-cairpower/) by Rowan Software (wish I could get it working properly in DOSBox). It had some interesting aircraft designs and was somewhat like Crimson Skies, but with a (sort of) non-linear plot. Might provide a bit of inspiration.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 14, 2010, 12:01:51 pm
Guys, the big hurdle here (as for any mod like this) is models. Models, models, models. As I said, I'm not a modeller, so someone else has to do those, or point me in the direction of released models that we can use for this.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: JGZinv on October 14, 2010, 12:02:51 pm
I still throw my old Crimson Skys 2 disk in the XBOX 360, plays great on the widescreen.  :D
But isn't there a rumoured sequel in the works?


A. There is no CS2.

B. Notice the date on the article Dec 8th 2007.... they're not doing anything.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on October 14, 2010, 12:52:06 pm
Guys, the big hurdle here (as for any mod like this) is models. Models, models, models. As I said, I'm not a modeller, so someone else has to do those, or point me in the direction of released models that we can use for this.

Unfortunately I don't have the necessary skills, or much knowledge of model resources. May I suggest deviantArt as a resource for possible talent/models? There're a few modellers on there that have produced stuff relevant to what you're after (this artist (http://1wyrmshadow1.deviantart.com/), for instance).

Actually, maybe a good first port of call might be the Aircraft Fan Club (http://aircraftfanclub.deviantart.com/) section on the same site.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Vengence on October 14, 2010, 12:57:19 pm
Can the FSO engine support gravity and basic lift? Frankly I'd support this mod if you can get gravity working...... cause I'd just snag it to use for some epic atmosphere missions of my own  :P
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 14, 2010, 01:02:25 pm
Can the FSO engine support gravity and basic lift? Frankly I'd support this mod if you can get gravity working...... cause I'd just snag it to use for some epic atmosphere missions of my own  :P

Well, I am a coder.....
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Dragon on October 14, 2010, 01:03:42 pm
It's possible to FRED stalling, but gravity isn't implemented yet.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Droid803 on October 14, 2010, 01:10:42 pm
Yes yes yes yes yes.
AIRBATTLESHIPS.

Sorry, can't be of much help except being super excited, I'm no modeller.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Rodo on October 14, 2010, 01:18:45 pm
oh, nice concepts.... me likes :yes:
ships are fast I take it right?? then you might need to think about fixing the collision detection problems at high speeds as well.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 14, 2010, 01:22:58 pm
Not fast, not fast! We want a World War II in atmosphere feel here (yes i meant to do that)! We want nyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwww wwwwwwwwwwwwTATATATATATATATAgoggles+scarf!
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 14, 2010, 01:28:32 pm
Yeah, fast is relative here. We're talking speeds of ~600 kph, which in FS terms translates to about 166 mps.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Dragon on October 14, 2010, 01:48:22 pm
It's stilll fast, but not fast enough to break collisions.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Rodo on October 14, 2010, 01:59:46 pm
Then nothing to worry about.

Well.... yes, getting model builders will be a major thing to worry about  :(
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Droid803 on October 14, 2010, 03:04:13 pm
166m/s is manageable, pretty similar to FS AB speeds, which means a pretty easy transition :P

Models though :(
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Angelus on October 14, 2010, 04:50:54 pm
I'd love to see such a mod!

I am atm a bit short on time ( reallife issues as well as modeling ships for FS CoDA) but i can a bit of everything except coding and music stuff.

This is a fighter i did some time ago for another game, which was inspired a bit by WWII planes and Star Wars ships. The Cockpit is just a placeholder, the final mesh has a Spitfire-ish cockpit layout, thx to newman and Brand-X
Would love to see something similar in the mod, if it gets launched.

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/FS2%20Ships/FFRe5.png)


Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: spyderrock48 on October 14, 2010, 05:21:04 pm
well i for one would love to get involved with this! it would be great to start on a whole new original mod, instead of having to kinda jump in one

yall remember this fighter? the one that i designed off of crimson skies? i love making stuff like that lol :) this mod would be tons of fun.
(http://i54.tinypic.com/34t8jur.jpg)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Sushi on October 14, 2010, 05:37:47 pm
Can the FSO engine support gravity and basic lift? Frankly I'd support this mod if you can get gravity working...... cause I'd just snag it to use for some epic atmosphere missions of my own  :P

Well, I am a coder.....

If you make gravity work you will be forever enshrined and revered.

I took a quick shot at it recently...unfortunately, the way FS2 physics work makes it a real pain to try to apply arbitrary force vectors.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Dragon on October 14, 2010, 05:43:55 pm
Let's wait for The Minbari Project to come out (16 October, if their trailer is to be belived).
It'll have more realistic physics, so it's possible that something could be done using their code.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on October 14, 2010, 05:53:53 pm
Can the FSO engine support gravity and basic lift? Frankly I'd support this mod if you can get gravity working...... cause I'd just snag it to use for some epic atmosphere missions of my own  :P

Well, I am a coder.....

If you make gravity work you will be forever enshrined and revered.

I took a quick shot at it recently...unfortunately, the way FS2 physics work makes it a real pain to try to apply arbitrary force vectors.

Didn't Nuke already do this?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: -Sara- on October 14, 2010, 06:31:19 pm
Could be a nice mod!
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: JGZinv on October 14, 2010, 07:15:25 pm
I had a hackish method for implementing localized "gravity" - but it got dropped from memory before anyone
bothered to try it I do believe.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=64090.msg1265864#msg1265864
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 14, 2010, 07:29:14 pm
Détente!

1940something!  A generation ago, the botched attempt on Archduke Franz Ferdinand's life alerted the monarchies of Europe--powerful sociopolitical and economic forces were at work, and the vulnerability of the elite to the depredations of anarchists, communists, and anti-royalists posed a grave threat to the European way of life and, therefore, the world.  In an effort to preserve the delicate balance of power, a conference was held in Brussels to discuss a loosening of international tensions with an eye toward the preservation of existing power structures.  When Kaiser Wilhelm arrived at the conference in person aboard a spectacular airship, the course of history was set--the wealthy and powerful would take to the skies, with military and commercial interests soon to follow.

In the ensuing years, populist movements have indeed sprung up and taken hold in the countryside, but an improving quality of life stemming from technological advances and increased economic activity has undercut their power--the powerful need only secure small areas around their airfields to ensure that trade continues unabated, and commerce is king.  Nations still strive to weaken and gain leverage over their rivals, but must do so without risking being dragged down along with them.  Alliances shift rapidly, and with a steady stream of new aircraft from North America available to all buyers, no army can be put at too steep a technological disadvantage.  Nationalist propaganda ensures that new recruits are always ready to serve their countries in the regular air corpses, and working in the merchant fleets is a way out of poverty for many in the younger generation.  In addition, many pilots from other nations are employed as privateers for when matters need to be handled in a more indirect manner.  With trench warfare seen as a brutal and indecisive waste for all parties, the map of Europe has remained unchanged for over fifteen years, and all eyes are turned towards the heavens...

The Players:

Austria Hungary- Mozart in a Messerschmitt!
French Third Republic- Armed with je ne sais quoi!
German Empire- Kaiser Kickass and his Red Baron Brigade!
Kingdom of Italy- Voooooooooolaaaaaareeeeee!
Ottoman Empire- You won't be putting your feet up on these guys!
Poland- How could we forget Poland!
Russian Empire- Yes, the white variety!
United Kingdom- HMAS Hood!

And don't forget those neutral Nordic countries, or the Spanish, or North America, etc.  Lots of fun here with the plotting and the scheming and the dakka.

As for the mod, a couple generic fighters (say, a fast monoplane and a maneuverable biplane), maybe a stationary observation balloon and a freighter (Zeppelin) would be all you really needed to get the feel for the thing and hone the atmospheric engine to perfection, then you could build from there.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Droid803 on October 14, 2010, 07:39:06 pm
That a good "alternate timeline" :3
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: spyderrock48 on October 14, 2010, 08:17:14 pm
haha well E , you should contact me so we can talk about his more indepth
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 14, 2010, 09:43:46 pm
Détente!

1940something!  A generation ago, the botched attempt on Archduke Franz Ferdinand's life alerted the monarchies of Europe--powerful sociopolitical and economic forces were at work, and the vulnerability of the elite to the depredations of anarchists, communists, and anti-royalists posed a grave threat to the European way of life and, therefore, the world.  In an effort to preserve the delicate balance of power, a conference was held in Brussels to discuss a loosening of international tensions with an eye toward the preservation of existing power structures.  When Kaiser Wilhelm arrived at the conference in person aboard a spectacular airship, the course of history was set--the wealthy and powerful would take to the skies, with military and commercial interests soon to follow.

In the ensuing years, populist movements have indeed sprung up and taken hold in the countryside, but an improving quality of life stemming from technological advances and increased economic activity has undercut their power--the powerful need only secure small areas around their airfields to ensure that trade continues unabated, and commerce is king.  Nations still strive to weaken and gain leverage over their rivals, but must do so without risking being dragged down along with them.  Alliances shift rapidly, and with a steady stream of new aircraft from North America available to all buyers, no army can be put at too steep a technological disadvantage.  Nationalist propaganda ensures that new recruits are always ready to serve their countries in the regular air corpses, and working in the merchant fleets is a way out of poverty for many in the younger generation.  In addition, many pilots from other nations are employed as privateers for when matters need to be handled in a more indirect manner.  With trench warfare seen as a brutal and indecisive waste for all parties, the map of Europe has remained unchanged for over fifteen years, and all eyes are turned towards the heavens...

The Players:

Austria Hungary- Mozart in a Messerschmitt!
French Third Republic- Armed with je ne sais quoi!
German Empire- Kaiser Kickass and his Red Baron Brigade!
Kingdom of Italy- Voooooooooolaaaaaareeeeee!
Ottoman Empire- You won't be putting your feet up on these guys!
Poland- How could we forget Poland!
Russian Empire- Yes, the white variety!
United Kingdom- HMAS Hood!

And don't forget those neutral Nordic countries, or the Spanish, or North America, etc.  Lots of fun here with the plotting and the scheming and the dakka.

As for the mod, a couple generic fighters (say, a fast monoplane and a maneuverable biplane), maybe a stationary observation balloon and a freighter (Zeppelin) would be all you really needed to get the feel for the thing and hone the atmospheric engine to perfection, then you could build from there.

The dessicated remains of Otto von Bismarck serve as the symbolic core (and, some say, spiritual engine) of a titanic steam-driven humanoid leviathan that stalks the borders of Germany - Blood and Iron Man!

:nervous:
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: spyderrock48 on October 14, 2010, 10:09:35 pm
Für Deutschland!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 14, 2010, 11:34:41 pm
The dessicated remains of Otto von Bismarck serve as the symbolic core (and, some say, spiritual engine) of a titanic steam-driven humanoid leviathan that stalks the borders of Germany - Blood and Iron Man!

:nervous:
So once again grammar fail leads to creative bonus.  I will draw the line at flying werewolves though, that's just silly.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 14, 2010, 11:36:47 pm
The dessicated remains of Otto von Bismarck serve as the symbolic core (and, some say, spiritual engine) of a titanic steam-driven humanoid leviathan that stalks the borders of Germany - Blood and Iron Man!

:nervous:
So once again grammar fail leads to creative bonus.  I will draw the line at flying werewolves though, that's just silly.

I actually don't think you should use this, I just wanted to describe Blood and Ironman.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 15, 2010, 01:09:35 am

I actually don't think you should use this, I just wanted to describe Blood and Ironman.
I'm just laying the groundwork to sue you later on when you strike it rich with my brilliant "Air Corpse" idea ;)

Anyway, we should try to find a couple game-worthy historic warbird models to test things out with.  I'd like to see the Sky Captain plane itself (it was a P-40)--are you (The E) thinking of using real planes or more fanciful stuff like in Crimson Skies or a combination?  Would you go for a classic film look with post processing or try to keep it more realistic?  Can props rotate quickly enough in the FS engine to look cool or will it have to be done with trickeration?  So much exciting stuff, and an attempt to write a new and highly useful physics into the engine to boot...I really hope you get some more people excited to help out with this :yes:
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 01:44:43 am
Wow, never expected to see such a reaction

Okay, here's my plan for now.
Technology: Fighter planes can and should be taken from their real-life counterparts. Meaning you get Spitfires, Fw-190s, all the nice stuff that was available at the end of WW2. Jet planes are just starting to appear, for the moment, they are the stuff of wild rumours among pilots.
One major difference here is that physics work a bit different. In this Universe, there exists an eleme4nt that basically acts as a countergrav unit, similar to the Unobtainium that featured prominently in James Cameron's Avatar. This allows the construction of heavier-than-air Airships like the ones from Starslayer's concept art featured in the first post. For now, this element is extremely rare, so only states have access to vast quantities of it, and they use it to apply traditional naval doctrine to air combat vessels (In this universe, Pearl Harbor and WW2 never happened, so majestic Battleships are still a must for any self-respecting nation).
The more outlandish, Crimson Skies-like planes can exist as well, but I'd like to keep things simple for now.

Politics:
Damn you swashmebuckle! Get out of my head!
The feel is very frenetic. Everyone knows that the world is teetering on the edge of a second World War, as the grievances left behind by the first one are still left unresolved in the eyes of many. Extrapolate the feel of the 20s, and leave out the global economy meltdown. As you said, Alliances shift rapidly, as Europe is trying to find a new balance of power. America, meanwhile, tries its best to keep Europe unstable; In the wake of the collapse of the vast colonial empires (except for the Commonwealth, but we'll get to that later), they have vowed to spread independence wherever they can. Their strategy is to keep the Europeans busy with themselves, while they send aid, both economic and political, into the former colonies to help secure their independence.

Look and Feel of the mod:
As said before, Crimson Skies-ish. Combat is (by comparison to stock FS2) fast and frenetic, with the ground being a constant source of danger. Weapons used are primarily guns; While there are early guided missiles, they are still somewhat inaccurate, and the radar systems necessary are too big to be mounted on regular daytime fighters.
Musically, the kind of score you'd see in a swashbuckling movie, or Indiana Jones film.
Visual effects: Not certain yet. If we can get a sort of grainy black-and-white filter on there for cutscenes, that'll be great. Everything else should be left clean.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: gevatter Lars on October 15, 2010, 02:28:41 am
I have just read parts of this and that but from what I read it sounds like a pretty cool project is takeing shape.
Please continue...while I dig up my copy of Crimson Skies. I aspect that you have the mod done by the time I am through with the game yes? ^_^
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: ethaninja on October 15, 2010, 04:03:57 am
First off I just gotta say, that first concept you've got going is FREAKIN SWEET! I wish I could draw like that.
Secondly, the idea for a mod that like that is FREAKING SWEET!

I would be interesting in helping with this kind of mod. Voice actor maybe? I'm still WAY too noobish at programming in C++ to make the code itself. I don't even know what language I would do this in even if I was a C++ programmer :P

3D Moddeling is also not my strong suite, as I'm still fresh off the bat on learning that as well (aka: still in tutorial mode)

If I get better and either of those, I will help. And if this mod does take off, then good luck ;)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: ethaninja on October 15, 2010, 04:05:40 am
I'd love to see such a mod!

I am atm a bit short on time ( reallife issues as well as modeling ships for FS CoDA) but i can a bit of everything except coding and music stuff.

This is a fighter i did some time ago for another game, which was inspired a bit by WWII planes and Star Wars ships. The Cockpit is just a placeholder, the final mesh has a Spitfire-ish cockpit layout, thx to newman and Brand-X
Would love to see something similar in the mod, if it gets launched.

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/FS2%20Ships/FFRe5.png)

Wow that is just, wow =D How did you smooth that out so well?
All my models are blocky and rigid and smoothmesh just ruins them.



Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: T-LoW on October 15, 2010, 04:09:09 am
And make the main menu like this:

(http://www.mobygames.com/images/i/24/49/123749.jpeg)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: ethaninja on October 15, 2010, 04:14:03 am
And make the main menu like this:

(http://www.mobygames.com/images/i/24/49/123749.jpeg)

I don't know if it is just me but I can't see it.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: T-LoW on October 15, 2010, 04:24:25 am
I can see it twice now :nervous:
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 04:41:06 am
First off I just gotta say, that first concept you've got going is FREAKIN SWEET! I wish I could draw like that.
Secondly, the idea for a mod that like that is FREAKING SWEET!

I can't draw like that either :P Those are just drawings from StarSlayer that he posted here a while back, and that sort of illustrate what I want quite well.

Quote
I would be interesting in helping with this kind of mod. Voice actor maybe? I'm still WAY too noobish at programming in C++ to make the code itself. I don't even know what language I would do this in even if I was a C++ programmer :P

The point where I'll be asking for voice actors is still far, far off. First, we need models, models and more models.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Fury on October 15, 2010, 04:46:33 am
Maybe you should consider using placeholders, otherwise I don't think this project ever takes off the ground. Scooby Doo's Wing Commander ships could be decent placeholders.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: ethaninja on October 15, 2010, 04:56:05 am
Maybe you should consider using placeholders, otherwise I don't think this project ever takes off the ground. Scooby Doo's Wing Commander ships could be decent placeholders.

I am just full of questions today. Guess I really AM determined to find things out :P
May I ask what a placeholder is and/or consists of?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: T-LoW on October 15, 2010, 05:02:24 am
The name already says it. Just ships to hold the place for the mod's own models but with which you can already work with so you can start with creating a campaign and so on :)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 05:04:42 am
Yes, placeholders are a good idea.

ethaninja: It's simple, you just take a model that has roughly the same properties as the model you want to end up with, and use it to test out stuff. That way you can test and refine the gameplay while you're waiting on the finished assets.

Well, I think I'm going to start setting this up in earnest over the weekend.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: ethaninja on October 15, 2010, 05:35:17 am
Yes, placeholders are a good idea.

ethaninja: It's simple, you just take a model that has roughly the same properties as the model you want to end up with, and use it to test out stuff. That way you can test and refine the gameplay while you're waiting on the finished assets.

Well, I think I'm going to start setting this up in earnest over the weekend.

Ah I see. So an example would be:

Take an existing Freespace 2 Model that would be as close as possible to the ship your making, and yeah, use it to test out stuff :P
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 15, 2010, 05:42:47 am
A fluff proposal: The anti-grav substance is normally totally inert; it's only when you get a big pile of it together and run a direct current through it that it exhibits its unique properties.  If a ship's engines fail and power is lost, backup batteries automatically come on to let her down gently, or even keep her floating at low altitude for a decent amount of time.  This could save a lot of lives and equipment if the ship is damaged over friendly territory, but it would also enable privateers to take prizes--just don't shoot up the area directly above the ship's center of mass and you can tow it home.  Having the achievable altitude tied to the mass of the pile would also provide good reason for building those big awesome battleships--if you can float an enormous armored platform for your biggest guns at 25,000 feet, you could bombard inland targets from miles and miles away where their ground defenses couldn't touch you.  Sure, these big ships would still be vulnerable to fighter swarms, but they can pack more punch and sustained presence than fixed-wing strategic bombers and you'd have to do a lot better than a couple lucky hits below the waterline to drop one.  And anyway that's why you have escort carriers and all that fun :D

So I'm curious about the backstory: we know most of the colonial empires are crumbling or strained, but no great depression.  How did the aftermath of WWI turn out?  Is Germany the Weimar Republic (I sort of prefer my swashbuckling fun w/o genocidal Nazis, Indy notwithstanding)?  What about Russia, and what is going on with the Sino-Japanese War?  Habsburg or bust I say!
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on October 15, 2010, 06:02:32 am
I'm getting a strong Leviathans (http://catalystgamelabs.com/leviathans/) vibe from this. Not that I think that's a bad thing, I'm just wondering if that inspired the pics on the first page and the anti-gravity ideas already mentioned.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 06:21:22 am
Okay, keep in mind that these are basically spur-of-the-moment ramblings. No guarantee for coherence.

Germany

Germany is a constitutional Monarchy, with a strong aristocracy. The Weimar Republic failed in 1924, and what was left of the Aristocracy managed to reassert its control, as people looked for new strong leadership. In 1927, a team of scientists under Albert Einstein and Wernder Heisenberg managed to isolate "Flugstein" (literally "Flystone"), an element or state of matter (What exactly is still under debate in physicists' circles) that had astonishing properties. It turned out that a sufficient quantity of flystone, when subjected to an electrical current, can lift something into the sky.
This discovery was used as a bargaining chip with the League of Nations to pay off the remaining reparations for WW1 damages. All accumulated flystone research was turned over to the world public, and Germany retreated from international politics.
Taking a page from the Swiss playbook, Germany remains neutral in european politics, while at the same time rising to one of the biggest arms exporters. German-built Zeppelins are a common sight in the skies, and german flystone engines are a sought-after commodity.
This combination has the other states somewhat worried. There are indications for a massive buildup of armed forces, funds being funneled into dark channels, that hint at something massive going on in the few areas the german Air Navy has locked down hermetically.

The British Commonwealth

The last great colonial empire. Through a combination of force of arms and economy, most of Britains' colonies chose to remain in the Commonwealth. The Royal Navy was the first one to complete a total conversion of their existing wet-water navy to a flystone-equipped armada; and as a result, British forces got to write the book on modern air combat. Most of the Royal Navy is deployed running convoy escort for Zeppelins that connect the pieces of the Empire.
(I'm not going to go into details about the politics here; Someone british should fill it in)

The Rest

No idea about Russia.

As for Japan, it currently controls Korea, a portion of China, and a chunk of what was termed the Greater East-Asian Co-prosperity Sphere (excluding territories under British and American control).
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 15, 2010, 07:16:01 am
A fluff proposal: The anti-grav substance is normally totally inert; it's only when you get a big pile of it together and run a direct current through it that it exhibits its unique properties.

What do the civilizations of the galaxy call it?

BTW for the sake of awesome we should throw in a couple non-European powers that can be as stereotypical as th Europeans. I suggest India, Japan (which had a badass fleet), and Zululand, which could be ****ing terrifying.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Angelus on October 15, 2010, 07:26:23 am
I'd love to see such a mod!

I am atm a bit short on time ( reallife issues as well as modeling ships for FS CoDA) but i can a bit of everything except coding and music stuff.

This is a fighter i did some time ago for another game, which was inspired a bit by WWII planes and Star Wars ships. The Cockpit is just a placeholder, the final mesh has a Spitfire-ish cockpit layout, thx to newman and Brand-X
Would love to see something similar in the mod, if it gets launched.

*snip*


Wow that is just, wow =D How did you smooth that out so well?
All my models are blocky and rigid and smoothmesh just ruins them.

There's no special trick to it. I'd like to point out that the current Firemoth mesh has 9k polys, as it was built for a other game.

--------------------------------------------------------------------


Like the concept of the mod sofar. I hope it follows the Battletech philosophie: the enemy is not necessarily "evil" ( as in Darth Vader-evil).
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: ethaninja on October 15, 2010, 08:26:39 am
I'd love to see such a mod!

I am atm a bit short on time ( reallife issues as well as modeling ships for FS CoDA) but i can a bit of everything except coding and music stuff.

This is a fighter i did some time ago for another game, which was inspired a bit by WWII planes and Star Wars ships. The Cockpit is just a placeholder, the final mesh has a Spitfire-ish cockpit layout, thx to newman and Brand-X
Would love to see something similar in the mod, if it gets launched.

*snip*


Wow that is just, wow =D How did you smooth that out so well?
All my models are blocky and rigid and smoothmesh just ruins them.

There's no special trick to it. I'd like to point out that the current Firemoth mesh has 9k polys, as it was built for a other game.

--------------------------------------------------------------------


Like the concept of the mod sofar. I hope it follows the Battletech philosophie: the enemy is not necessarily "evil" ( as in Darth Vader-evil).

Where I circled the holes that you can see through, did you do boolean? Every time I use boolean it makes the wireframe edges all diagonal.

http://b.imagehost.org/view/0013/FFRe5
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 08:33:03 am
Not to discourage you or anything, ethaninja, but could you ask your questions in a separate thread or via PMs?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: ethaninja on October 15, 2010, 08:35:43 am
Not to discourage you or anything, ethaninja, but could you ask your questions in a separate thread or via PMs?

Oh yeah sorry I just got so caught up in questions I got carried away >.<
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Rodo on October 15, 2010, 09:00:13 am
That anti-grav particle makes me think of the trapar used in Eureka-Seven anime series, though that one was present in massive amounts on the very atmosphere.
If only the states have access to this special particle, would it be safe to say all other military powers will not have access to big flying destroyers?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 09:02:28 am
That anti-grav particle makes me think of the trapar used in Eureka-Seven anime series, though that one was present in massive amounts on the very atmosphere.
If one the states have access to this special particle, would it be safe to say all other military powers will not have access to big flying destroyers?


As said above, Germany gave the information on how to manufacture flystone to the international community to pay off the WW1 reparations. Every major power has the know-how to make the stuff, it's just that some have better engineers than others.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Rodo on October 15, 2010, 09:05:25 am
Oh I see so there's big ships everywhere... now I like it :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 15, 2010, 09:07:53 am
Wait, did WWI happen or not?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 09:14:19 am
World War 1 happened. The point of departure for this universe is sometime afterwards; Not only is there the discovery of flystone, but in addition, the right-wing movement never crystallized in Germany, as a certain Hitler-shaped focal point was missing. In addition, the great depression didn't hit as hard as it did, thus eliminating one of the influences of the time.

Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: spyderrock48 on October 15, 2010, 09:18:44 am
haha i like the fact that we are representing germany so factually, it did indeed have the engineering designs and plans for most of our modern aviation technology, good to see credit given :)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: gevatter Lars on October 15, 2010, 09:35:12 am
A thought that I had while reading about the flugstein stuff. How difficulte might it be to produce this?
I mean you said everyone knows how to produce these but does that also mean that everyone has the capacity to do so in a large mass?
What if smaller countries don't have the capacitys but still want some protection against these flying fortresses? I guess it would lead to some kind of specialised technological developments.

Concidering the range such a air-battleship would have I think something that could hurt it would be something like a big missle with a semi-guidance. (Like there are cable guided missiles today.)
Else there could be a development of "Sniper-AA" guns. Think of a 88 flak just bigger or so ^_^
Third and maybe the cheapest and most mobile weapon could be the development of air-torpedos that are used by fighter-bomber planes.

I think that could improve mission variaty a bit. Some options could be to take out incomming big-missiles, going close to the ground and search for these pesty 88 flaks or get the fighter-bombers before they deliver their payload.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 09:52:52 am
A thought that I had while reading about the flugstein stuff. How difficulte might it be to produce this?
I mean you said everyone knows how to produce these but does that also mean that everyone has the capacity to do so in a large mass?
What if smaller countries don't have the capacitys but still want some protection against these flying fortresses? I guess it would lead to some kind of specialised technological developments.

I think that, in order to produce it, you need the resources of at least a major nation. You need to have a pretty well-developed scientific community to do it, in order to run the magic machines that make flystone.

Quote
Concidering the range such a air-battleship would have I think something that could hurt it would be something like a big missle with a semi-guidance. (Like there are cable guided missiles today.)
Else there could be a development of "Sniper-AA" guns. Think of a 88 flak just bigger or so ^_^
Third and maybe the cheapest and most mobile weapon could be the development of air-torpedos that are used by fighter-bomber planes.

Problem is that battleships are massively armored. Fighters can get a mission kill on them by disabling their weapons and main propulsion (which effectively forces the ship to go to ground to do repairs). Bombers are a greater danger, as they can fly higher and then drop semi-guided bombs on them, which is why there are dedicated carrier ships that carry escort fighters. It's a lot like the Wing Commander fleet model, with lots of specialized ships.

As for ground based defence, SAMs are a great danger (but incredibly expensive), and flak guns have been up-gunned to calibers that resemble your usual field artillery, firing a mix of armor penetrating and airburst shells.

Quote
I think that could improve mission variaty a bit. Some options could be to take out incomming big-missiles, going close to the ground and search for these pesty 88 flaks or get the fighter-bombers before they deliver their payload.

All possible :)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 15, 2010, 10:06:24 am
A fluff proposal: The anti-grav substance is normally totally inert; it's only when you get a big pile of it together and run a direct current through it that it exhibits its unique properties.
What do the civilizations of the galaxy call it?
Fugium?  Reluctium?  Maxwellium?  Viagrium (it does get you up)?  Flubber?  It all depends on the tone of the mod I suppose...
World War 1 happened. The point of departure for this universe is sometime afterwards
So...no Flying Hussars and Habsburg Dragoonships? :(
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 10:10:33 am
So...no Flying Hussars and Habsburg Dragoonships? :(

There could be. I'm not going to write up descriptions for all european states, if you can come up with an explanation why a given thing should be in this, and I like it, it's in.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 15, 2010, 10:15:11 am
A fluff proposal: The anti-grav substance is normally totally inert; it's only when you get a big pile of it together and run a direct current through it that it exhibits its unique properties.
What do the civilizations of the galaxy call it?
Fugium?  Reluctium?  Maxwellium?  Viagrium (it does get you up)?  Flubber?  It all depends on the tone of the mod I suppose...

Somebody hasn't played Mass Effect!  ;)

World War 1 happened. The point of departure for this universe is sometime afterwards
So...no Flying Hussars and Habsburg Dragoonships? :(
[/quote]

I...do kind of like the pre-WWI setting swashmebuckle proposed...
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 10:24:51 am
Well, it does have its appeal, don't get me wrong.


But I sooo want to do a mission where you assault Albert Einstein's mountain hideout....

In the end, it really doesn't matter at this point. I like the 1940s as a playing field simply because of the level of technology available. This whole thing could work earlier, but that would mean dragiing Tesla into this, and I'd rather not do that.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 15, 2010, 10:33:02 am
Well, it does have its appeal, don't get me wrong.


But I sooo want to do a mission where you assault Albert Einstein's mountain hideout....

In the end, it really doesn't matter at this point. I like the 1940s as a playing field simply because of the level of technology available. This whole thing could work earlier, but that would mean dragiing Tesla into this, and I'd rather not do that.

We could still have it in the 1940s, just move the divergence point earlier.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 10:39:34 am
True, I suppose. However, I am not as comfortable extrapolating history that far back.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 15, 2010, 11:02:33 am
Somebody hasn't played Mass Effect!  ;)
Drat, I knew something was going over my head there!  It totally sounds like a terrible pun setup: What do you get when you run a direct current through an Electrombonium pile?  But yes, I haven't played Mass Effect, though it's on my list for the distant future.  The last few times I've had enough money to think about getting a new console, I've spent it on new samples and studio monitors and springing chief1983 from federal prison.

As for my Détante idea, the setting I was thinking of was also the 40s (so you could still use WWII planes--progress in that area might have actually been a bit faster than in our timeline as air combat would have been the primary focus), but with the political situation semi-stagnated from pre-WWI.  If you wanted, you could combine the two schemes: say that WWI happened but was aborted after a year or so instead of dragging on interminably.  Maybe the elites on both sides realized that they all had more to lose than they first thought.  Austria-Hungary and the Ottomans could have cut their losses and made a deal to back out of the war and consolidate their power, leaving Germany in the lurch.  The Entente powers then would have forced Germany to surrender and make reparations, but the conditions would have been less harsh than in our history.  Consequently, Germany suffers more at first than the other parties and undergoes a couple regime changes like you said, but in the 20s they are able to catch up to (and in some areas surpass) their victorious neighbors who are bleeding away resources trying to stem the spread of communism while holding down their colonies with America playing all sides against the middle.  Add in the Einstein/Heisenberg awesome stuff and you're there--they seem pretty compatible to me :)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 11:08:10 am
Agreed, that would work quite well indeed.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Vengence on October 15, 2010, 11:33:35 am
, but in addition, the right-wing movement never crystallized in Germany, as a certain Hitler-shaped focal point was missing.

Not to make a political argument but the idea that it was a right wing movement doesn't really jar right with me considering they are called the "National Socialist Workers Party" where 'Socialist' is by definition a left-wing movement and that they are fascist dictators which represent total government control... which is also a definition of far left in contrast to far right which would equate to total anarchy.... Obviously there was not anarchy after the big N's took control. And they were anti capitalism too, which is a right leaning philosophy. Sooo... how is this classified as a right movement anyways if they don't run the 'Small Government' mantra :confused:? Am I missing something :confused:?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 15, 2010, 11:36:43 am
, but in addition, the right-wing movement never crystallized in Germany, as a certain Hitler-shaped focal point was missing.

Not to make a political argument but the idea that it was a right wing movement doesn't really jar right with me considering they are called the "National Socialist Workers Party" where 'Socialist' is by definition a left-wing movement and that they are fascist dictators which represent total government control... which is also a definition of far left in contrast to far right which would equate to total anarchy.... Obviously there was not anarchy after the big N's took control. And they were anti capitalism too, which is a right leaning philosophy. Sooo... how is this classified as a right movement anyways if they don't run the 'Small Government' mantra :confused:? Am I missing something :confused:?

Oh, brother.

First off, you are talking to a German.

Second, you have the axes of your political diagram mixed up. Neither left nor right are associated with authoritarianism vs. anarchy. The Nazi Party was ultra-right wing and horribly authoritarian. Soviet Communism was ultra-left wing and horribly authoritarian.

They were both on the authoritarian end of this diagram:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/European-political-spectrum.png/558px-European-political-spectrum.png)

All historically important political philosophies can be plotted here. Anarchy is a left-wing, highly libertarian notion. Fascism is a right-wing, highly authoritarian notion. Soviet Communism was a left-wing, highly authoritarian notion.

The notion that 'right wing' is associated with 'small government, pro-capitalism' is something very recent, very specifically American, and very much not applicable to Germany circa 1930-1940. Today's American right wing movement is very liberal compared to the Nazis, and depending on who you talk to, oscillates between somewhat libertarian (small government, expanded freedoms) and somewhat authoritarian (Bush-style big government, legislation of social issues, etc.)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Vengence on October 15, 2010, 11:46:54 am
You don't have to get all worked up on me, I just never really got how they were called that. Never saw that graph either, everyone keeps slapping the single lined graph at me and for some reason they get labeled on the far right side and given their name I never really got it. Sorry about that General  :shaking:.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 15, 2010, 11:51:18 am
You don't have to get all worked up on me, I just never really got how they were called that. Never saw that graph either, everyone keeps slapping the single lined graph at me and for some reason they get labeled on the far right side and given their name I never really got it. Sorry about that General  :shaking:.

No problem, sorry if I came off too snappy. I was just afraid this awesome thread was gonna derail into GenDisc territory.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 11:53:56 am
The NSDAP's name (Which, in full, translates to "National Socialist Democratic Worker's Party") was deliberately chosen to muddy the waters, and to increase its appeal to the people who didn't want to sign up with the Communists (German Communist Party, KPD) or who were disillusioned with the social democrats (Social Democratic Party of Germany, SPD).

Also note that "National Socialist" is one word in german, and was chosen to represent the specific brand of fashism they stood for. It's philosophy was distinctly different from true socialism; while certain buzzwords were shared, the actual policies differed wildly.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Vengence on October 15, 2010, 11:55:41 am
No problem, sorry if I came off too snappy. I was just afraid this awesome thread was gonna derail into GenDisc territory.

I wouldn't let that happen, least I wouldn't want it to get big. Just wanted some clarification since some sources are conflicting with me.

*waves jedi hand "You can go about your business. Move along"*
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Vengence on October 15, 2010, 01:58:47 pm
Just decided to chip in. These drawings are over 2 years old, so they aren't the prettiest out there.

(http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/5320/airship01.jpg)
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/593/airship02.jpg)

A long time ago I sort of decided to concept a steampunk/crimson skies thing but takes the Ace Combat formula to setting and plot. The world is basically a StrangeReal, holding many similarities to the real world but different landscapes, political theatre, alliances, ect.

The ship I have up is the "King Alexander Dreadnought", the 'largest' airship in the whole of the plot. I am unsure of the total size but it is most definitely over 800 meters long... reaching 1km when it deploys a primitve railgun. The ship belongs to the Kingdom of Hassen faction, who are renowned to have eccentric, brilliant scientists and are savy to try out new ideas. Ranging from nitro enhanced engines, acid shells, and yes... primitive railguns. The Alexander's railgun uses thousands of individual magnetic bricks placed next to each other along the length of the railgun. A single railgun firing can gut and destroy multiple capital ships but that use damages the magnetic bricks to such a degree that they must be replaced with every shot. Upon firing, a crew of over two hundred engineers rush out into the perilous exposed air to toss out the damaged rail blocks and replace them with new, fresh ones, allowing the cannon to fire once more.

Fraid my universe is far more... schizo than the normal Crimson Skies deal  :p, Marble white and black colored airships with angel statues dotting their hull with rail guns and massive cannons and props, primitive missiles and rockets, fuzzy radar and radio and maybe even nuclear energy in one ship  :).
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 15, 2010, 02:21:23 pm
It's a cool design, definitely. Would love to see it in 3D.

Minus the big propellers, of course. The vision I have in my head is kinda like taking a real-world BB like the Bismarck, or Iowa-Class and bolt 2 to 4 big ducted fans to the bow and stern and a few turrets on the bottom. The first few of these ships were pretty much standard naval vessels that had been equipped with flystones, purpose built combat airships came later.

As for engines, well..... flystones sufficient to lift a battleship need a LOT of power. The first few of these vessels were converted from stock ships because they didn't have the energy resources to stay aloft for more than a few hours, the ability to land in any sufficiently deep body of water was considered vital.
Current designs have vastly improved energy generation systems. The current cutting-edge designs, like the german "Westfalen" class or the british "Endurance" class utilize first-generation nuclear fission piles to power their flystones.

In terms of ship sizes, I think the largest ships should be no longer than, say, 400 meters.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: rhettro on October 15, 2010, 06:29:25 pm
A. There is no CS2.

B. Notice the date on the article Dec 8th 2007.... they're not doing anything.

A. There is the PC game that came out in 2000 (aka Crimson Skies 1) and then the XBOX game CS -The High Road to Revenge that came out in 2003 (aka Crimson Skies 2).

B.  Here is an article dated Aug 2nd, 2009.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6214624.html

Granted, nothing has been formally announced, but IP is currently with a company that would like a sequel.  Probably a few years off though.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: ethaninja on October 17, 2010, 11:29:43 am
A. There is no CS2.

B. Notice the date on the article Dec 8th 2007.... they're not doing anything.

A. There is the PC game that came out in 2000 (aka Crimson Skies 1) and then the XBOX game CS -The High Road to Revenge that came out in 2003 (aka Crimson Skies 2).

B.  Here is an article dated Aug 2nd, 2009.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6214624.html

Granted, nothing has been formally announced, but IP is currently with a company that would like a sequel.  Probably a few years off though.

Well I'll be damned. I certainly hope that goes through =D It was sad to not see the Xbox (2) version on the PC so I sure hope that gets made. Or if not, I'm sure this mod will do ;D
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Darius on October 19, 2010, 03:20:07 am
Just a quick and dirty modification of a battleship model. Hull part is from a SolCommand ship. Might be useable once it gets textured.

(http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/skybattleship.jpg)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 19, 2010, 09:04:36 am
Hey, that's pretty cool :yes:

REALLYLONGPOSTAHEAD

Over the past couple nights I've been pounding out some ideas, trying to flesh out a potential backstory a bit.  My objectives are to create a scenario that:

1- Allows for air piracy in a setting where there is enough dynamically stability for us to also have functional air forces, there is the possibility of war around the corner but also a reason for those air forces not to have already annihilated each other, and where virtually any group can find a reason to fight with any other at any time

2- Has some of fun matching the setting to the swashbuckling style of the inspiration, taking elements from the byzantine political situation of the early 20th century, mixing in novel innovations and responses to later events and technologies, etc

3- Incorporates appropriate historical personalities into the new circumstances that bring some familiarity but also contrast their world with ours in an entertaining way.  So basically I think you should be able to blow up Hitler in the first mission.  I mean, after you do that everything is icing :)

I've gotten to the early 20s so far here, and it's already gonna need some srs editing if you (The E) are interested in using parts of it for tech room intel entries or whatever, particularly towards the end where I start enjoying the writing process a little too much.  Anyway, I'm just posting it because I got tired of writing and figured I'd see what people thought.

World War:

On the 28th of June, 1914, Archduke Franz Ferdinand, heir apparent to the Austro-Hungarian throne, was severely injured in a bombing attack carried out by Bosnian Serb nationalists in Sarajevo.  With the support of Germany's Kaiser Wilhelm II, Austria-Hungary invaded Serbia a month later, drawing the Central Powers into World War with the forces of the Triple Entente.  Most of Europe expected a quick and limited war; when it became clear that the conflict could drag on indefinitely and at far greater cost than had been anticipated, all parties began to look for a way to end their involvement on favorable terms.  The break came on the 2nd of August, 1915, when after a series of secret negotiations, the ailing Austro-Hungarian Emperor Franz Joseph agreed to a separate peace with the allied powers.  Believing that his weakling nephew Franz Ferdinand would follow the Kaiser even to the destruction of both nations if he should become Emperor, Franz Joseph made symbolic territorial concessions to the Allies and moved to consolidate his power at home.  Turkey soon followed suit, leaving an enraged Germany alone to face its enemies.  The Germans had held in to the hope that the war would end in a stalemate if Russia continued on its course towards open rebellion against the Tzar, but now surrender was inevitable.

Aftermath:

In addition to abolishing the monarchy and reforming the state as a parliamentary republic, the Treaty of Zurich demanded harsh reparations from Germany, particularly to the French.  Unexpectedly, the story of how Wilhelm was betrayed and sent into exile (along with his dramatic airborne arrival at the peace talks following a soaring and melancholic final tour of the Swiss Alps) made him an international hero and symbol for Germany's plight virtually overnight--"Der Fliegende Kaiser" topped the charts even in Anglophone countries.  This unexpected popularity contributed to a rise in pro-Imperial sentiment that would help bring an end to the Weimar Republic and reinstitute the aristocracy at the forefront of German politics less than a decade later.

Fate of the Alliance:

Meanwhile, Franz Ferdinand became Emperor upon his uncle's death in 1916, proving to be an uncomfortable leader who lacked Franz Joseph's strength of will.  In spite of their longstanding friendship and shared awkwardness in the political arena, the public widely blamed Ferdinand for the downfall of Wilhelm (and by extension all of Germany).  At home, the new Emperor's policies actually did much to stabilize his fractious Empire--the granting of greater autonomy to the various ethnic groups appeased the politically disaffected, while investing heavily in new technologies and foreign markets (up to and including fully financing Germany's resurgent Zeppelin company as a potential source of sea power for the Austro-Hungarian Navy) brought economic prosperity.  Though the German people felt intense resentment towards their two-timing neighbors, the influx of cash into the manufacturing centers in the Ruhr river valley sustained the Weimar Republic through its leanest years, and the two countries became economically interdependent.  Through this relationship, Austria-Hungary became the first country to build up substantial fleets of commercial airships for travel and trade.

Entente-not-so-Cordiale:

This move towards air travel proved prescient as relations between former allies soured throughout Europe following the war.  Amongst the Entente nations, France and the United Kingdom were resentful towards America for not becoming directly involved in the war, a sentiment which grew into widespread anger when America began to put its weight behind policies designed to assist colonized regions in throwing off their mother countries worldwide.  Franco-British relations also deteriorated after the Treaty of Zurich disproportionately favored the French reconstruction efforts--while France had indeed sustained greater damage during the war, a far greater proportion of the UK's territory was put at risk in the post-bellum period, contributing to the growth of enormous debt.  Italy, having sabotaged its relations with the Triple Alliance by refusing to honor their mutual defense agreement with Germany and Austria-Hungary, only came in on the side of the Triple Entente at the very tail end of the war and achieved almost nothing against their Austro-Hungarian rivals.  They were completely ignored at the Zurich peace talks, and the government's failure to increase the nation's sphere of influence in spite of their nominal victory ushered in a period of political turmoil.  Russia would also become preoccupied with domestic troubles, but with the army returned home in victory, an attempted revolution in February of 1917 failed to depose Tsar Nicholas II, and many of the socialists leaders were rooted out.  Though open support for the communist movement was effectively crushed, the message still carried a powerful appeal for Russia's working class--acts of sabotage would become commonplace, and the sense that an armed revolt could break out at any moment engendered an atmosphere of paranoia within the ranks of the establishment.

Espionage:

This paranoia may well have been justified, as improved communications technology and increased economic freedom provided avenues of operation for highly effective spy networks.  Open warfare with modern technology had proven to be a disaster for all participants, so the struggle for global dominance shifted focus to commerce and the control of information.  With the well-paid agents of foreign nations operating in every village and factory, secrecy quickly became the most valuable of commodities, as any project or facility not completely secured and sealed off was both a potential leak and an easy target or staging platform for sabotage and guerilla attack.  Nations often vied for exclusive contracts for their government-backed corporations, knowing that becoming deeply indebted to other powers (even current allies) would give the debt-holding nations leverage to economically strong-arm their way into a dominant position.  With industrial power and economic efficiency the new measuring stick, asymmetrical proxy warfare against the logistical capabilities of rival countries became the norm.  The first casualty of this new paradigm was the locomotive--with countless miles of functional track to cover, it was impossible for governments to prevent foreign agents from sabotaging the rail networks to the point where maintaining the system became uneconomical.  With the traditional arteries cut and porous borders allowing more enemy operatives in by the day, lighter than air vehicles became an increasingly attractive option for moving critical supplies.

Europe takes to the air:

By 1920, the airship was a common sight throughout the industrialized world--Franz Ferdinand's brush with death had convinced the monarchies that ground travel was a thing to be avoided if possible, and the romance of Wilhelm's flight into exile became something of an obsession for the wealthy.  By 1920, luxurious helium airships from North America were the preferred method of travel for the elite, and despite a few well-publicized early disasters, a general consensus had been reached that Hydrogen vessels were a safe and cost-effective means of conveyance for passengers, mail, and other light cargo.  As railroads became a drain on resources, the keeled airship was slowly accepted as the clear alternative for long distance heavy freight.  With modern designs able to cary increasingly large payloads further every year over land and sea, airships came to be seen as the backbone of the future international economy.  Neither foreign saboteurs nor local malcontents could interfere with the safe passage of a vessel 7,000 meters over their heads, and large cleared areas around secured loading fields kept the vessels safe from mobile anti-aircraft fire on takeoff and landing.  These airfields could soon be seen outside of every major city, and the most important of them would grow to become industrial fortresses.  With their enemies' supply lines slipping out of reach, governments turned to more a direct means of damaging their rival economies: the .50 caliber incendiary tracer.

Scourge of the Skies:

Aeropiracy is not a career path for the feint of heart.  For starters, there are several major barriers to entering the field, not least of which is the cost of acquiring and maintaining one or more combat-worthy aircraft.  There is also the problem of finding an airfield that will look the other way when you come home with a stolen Goodyear Passenger Liner full of ransomable débutante booty.  You may hope to join up with an independent group based on some disputed Mediterranean island, but the reality is that those gangs prefer robbing and killing outsiders to sharing their earnings.  In order to overcome these obstacles, you and your organization will have to be engaged by a legitimate government, which will involve sacrificing the entire value of any prizes you may take in exchange for cash remuneration that would be on par with a low level government pencil pusher if not for the fact that your wages will only be delivered in the event of a successful mission outcome.  The plane they give you to accomplish your mission will generally be at least a decade out of date, poorly maintained, and loaded down with extra fuel tanks to increase its range.  The kill marking adorning its hull will indicate (somewhat perversely you may think) how many rookie pilots like yourself have been shot down in it.

Once you get that sorted out, there is the matter of merchant ships not actually wanting to become your plunder--valuable cargo will generally be shipped as part of a convoy if traveling through the sort of areas you will be able to operate in, and the most competitive transport services will hire private security forces to deploy in parasite fighters as soon as you are spotted.  You will not be fighting the escorts on even footing because the merchant airships will also be firing on you; though they are not paid to fight, they will have signed a contract with the security service that obliges them to provide any assistance they can until all the escort fighters are down or driven off.  You will not be allowed to just shoot the merchant vessels down either because the transport company would then bill your employers the cost of the lost merchandise and crew.  Everyone will know what country hired you, but your employer will deny any knowledge of you and your mission because all nations officially condemn piracy while actively funding it.  Even so, they would have to pay the company or their shipping prices would rise across the board.  If you were to accidentally shoot down a ship of the merchant's guild, and assuming you were smart enough to get as far away as possible before ditching, your photograph would still show up with an international bounty.  The merchant crews are drawn from all over the world, and there is a gentleman's agreement among the powers that they are not to be touched unless they refuse to alter course.  Your employer will not care that your squadron is also drawn from all over the world because he will know from long experience that all foreigners are scum.

If you are lucky enough to take care of the escorts and convince the merchants to redirect to your preferred border, there is still the matter of assuming escort duty until the cargo makes it to its new destination.  The merchants will have signaled their distress as soon as you were spotted, and even though your attack should have been planned well enough to allow for time to make your escape, there is still a strong chance that privateers could have been tailing the convoy or that a regular military patrol will be within range to intercept.  The privateer will fly a superior aircraft, will have amassed an impressive record of victories over pilots like you before earning his letter of marque, and will coordinate his attack with other similarly talented and equipped pilots.  For shooting you down, he will be rewarded with an embarrassingly small sum of money that is still likely more than you will earn in your entire career.  If you run afoul of an actual air force patrol, you would be well advised to drop your fuel tanks and run.  You will not be payed of course, but you will be alive and your employer will get their plane back to try their luck another day.  If you are flying far from home, the nearest neutral country will be your best bet for avoiding a swift trip into the ground.

Ace of Aces:

While many successful officers and privateers have been held up as national heroes, none have achieved the fame of Baron Manfred von Richthofen.  Entering the Luftstreitkräfte at the very end of the war, Richthofen was frustrated by the circumstances of his nation's surrender and endeavored to continue the fight for Germany's honor by whatever means possible.  By the terms of the Treaty of Zurich, Richthofen's homeland in Lower Silesia had been broken off and reformed (along with lands ceded by Austria-Hungary) as part of the new Second Polish Republic.  Though an ethnic German, Richthofen was gladdened that the western powers had seen to it that these territorial concessions were not absorbed by the Russian Empire, and he joined the Polish Air Force in early 1916.  The Russians for their part found the existence of the Polish state both a threat to their stability and an insult to Russia's contributions to the war. 

With Germany's armed forces reduced to a fraction of their wartime strength, Russia signed an agreement with Austria-Hungary to divide the new Polish territory in exchange for the latter party's non-interference with the invasion.  In the spring of 1918, Moscow produced a mandate to conduct a "police action" on Polish lands in order to hunt down forces that were aiding and abetting insurrectionists in Russian Imperial Warsaw.  To their great surprise, the occupation army was repulsed and then routed by a well trained and better equipped force financed by American interests and flying German aircraft.  It was in this initial push that Richthofen first earned his reputation as a superior pilot, accumulating as many air victories in a month as most World War aces had in that entire conflict.  Singlehandedly downing three Nieuport 17 fighters at the Battle of Warsaw made him a household name throughout central Europe, and it was even reported that he forced Russia's greatest ace, Aleksander Kazakov, to ditch in an engagement behind Russian lines, though this has been repeatedly denied by Petrograd and Kazakov himself.

Into the summer, Russia's underprepared air force was defeated in engagement after engagement, with their armies on the ground losing ground at an alarming rate.  It was not until the Austro-Hungarians intervened from the south that Russia gained enough of a reprieve to reorganize their ranks and stop the breakthroughs.  All three sides were fully entrenched by the end of July, and Richthofen's legend only grew as his squadrons flew triumphant sorties against both armies.  In an act of supreme confidence, he demanded that his fighter be painted red, an act which infuriated a Russian army that had almost half of its strength tied up in suppressing communists insurrection on the home front.  In spite of these personal heroics, the crushing weight of having to defend a tremendously long border against two foes stretched the Polish army to the breaking point, and ultimate defeat seemed inevitable.

Oddly enough, Poland ended up being saved by a natural disaster--an influenza epidemic that had begun to spread earlier in the year reached the front lines, ravaging all armies (along with most of the rest of the world).  Before the seriousness of the outbreak was understood, the war was allowed to continue by the great powers--all of them had an interest in seeing Russia and Austria-Hungary cut down to size, and supplying arms proved to be a highly profitable business, particularly for the Germans and Americans.  With a global pandemic raging, however, there was a serious danger that entire markets could be destroyed, particularly with battlefield conditions spawning even deadlier strains of the virus.  On the first of October, the League of Nations adopted a resolution that would enforce severe economic sanctions on the already fragile warring nations if hostilities were not ended by the fifteenth of the month--the last shot was fired on the third.

Following the war, Richthofen was paraded around Europe on a seemingly endless tour, encouraging the wealthy to invest in Polish enterprises (defended by the world's greatest pilot).  He had little patience for this type of work and resigned his commission in 1920, accepting an offer from the Swiss Air Force to serve as a consultant for their modernization efforts.  While living in Switzerland, he was often seen in the company of the exiled Emperor Wilhelm--Germany's greatest living heroes, not far from home.  When asked by a reporter why he did not return to his country, he replied "How could I bear to see Germany as she is now?  I will not stand on her sacred ground until she can stand on her own two feet".  Following the Russo-Polish conflict, open warfare was strongly discouraged by increasingly powerful commercial interests, but small scale conflicts fought "under the table" with expensive equipment became commonplace.  Switzerland needed to find its place in a world where war had been redefined, and Richthofen was the man to guide them through the transition.

The Swiss Watch:

Amidst Europe's changing political landscape, Switzerland has remained a neutral observer in warfare for over one hundred years.  In the decade following the World War, air travel made this area quickly reachable from almost anywhere in Europe for the first time, a shift that both encouraged greater economic engagement and removed one of the region's traditional layers of defense.  By 1920, Switzerland found itself caught in between countries that were often conducting unofficial military operations in and around Swiss airspace.  In order to remain neutral, the Swiss could not become involved in the machinations of neighboring nations, nor could they allow their territory to become a battleground over which foreign powers slugged it out.

The response to this dilemma was a twofold.  Firstly, the Swiss Air Force became the primary focus of the nation's conscripted military service, with 24 hour patrols instituted in order to dissuade rival forces from engaging each other over the country.  Any foreign craft observed firing within Swiss airspace (even those ostensibly trying to escape their attackers) was now forfeit to the Swiss people by law.  While the threat of being impounded or destroyed by a neutral air force may have been scoffed at in early months, a string of brutally efficient engagements soon convinced the powers that the Swiss commitment to keeping the peace was to be taken seriously.  Wealthy enough to always be supplied with the best aircraft and training, Switzerland's fighter corps is among the strongest in the world.

The second measure taken to avoid becoming entangled in foreign affairs was to provide airfields for pirates and privateers.  When this plan was first proposed, there was an enormous uproar: not only would sheltering these brigands turn the country into a violent cesspit, the fact that most of the pirates were working for the very governments Switzerland was trying to avoid engagement with seemed to run counter to everything the Swiss stood for.  In fact, it was a brilliant stroke; the most dangerous local shipping lanes were quickly abandoned, new sources of revenue were opened up, and shipping to and from Switzerland would almost never be a target again.  Every power soon operated a small airfield in one of the Cantons in much the same way that they held shipping offices in other countries.  These foreign bases, while kept small enough not to pose a threat to the Swiss Air Force, proved to be vital assets to their mother nations by providing staging areas in the heart of Europe which were essentially invulnerable due to the third-party protector.  As a result of this policy, the skies surrounding Swiss airspace on all sides are among the most dangerous in all of Europe, but shots are almost never fired within her borders.

Taking advantage of this unique position, the Swiss became unofficial intermediaries in dealing with "hostile takeovers".  When plundered cargo and captured military hardware is brought in by a "salvage company" as they are called, the Swiss offer to refurbish and sell unwanted items at auction on behalf of the group that brings the prize in (minus a small percentage for services rendered).  Merchant vessels are relieved of their goods and immediately released, while military personnel are put on transports back to their countries.  Resistance from crews is not a problem, as command is officially turned over to the Canton port authority before entering Swiss airspace, and risking both a crew and a souring of relations with the Swiss is not a good career move for the captains of captured vessels.

This arrangement is tolerated by the great powers primarily because the Swiss government does not back shipping companies in the way other nations do--in effect, the Swiss are non-players who happen to provide useful services.  The fact that those services are provided to rival nations as well is immaterial when considering the amount of money saved by taking advantage of them.  Without such intermediaries, crews of captured ships would be tempted to, among other things, continue fighting beyond the point were there could be any hope that it was economically viable to do so.  The aim of commerce raiding is to turn a profit at the enemy's expense, not to destroy his nation, and the Swiss provide the services required to conduct this business in a gentlemanly, if not civilized, manner.  With vast sums of almost every government's money held in Swiss banks, and the services of speedy Red Cross ambulance blimps saving lives in areas of conflict around the world, there are a plethora of reasons for the powers not to interfere with the status quo.

The Swiss also enjoy making cheese and delivering toys to underprivileged children.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 19, 2010, 09:12:05 am
I am blown away.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 19, 2010, 09:13:38 am
As am I. More coherent thoughts later.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 19, 2010, 11:38:16 am
Groovy.  I'd be happy to change whatever parts you think don't fit and finish catching it up to the time period the game takes place in--I have some cool thoughts for how to handle the introduction of the flying ships and stuff, and really it's just a fun kind of scenario to write about.  Sort of reminds me of the Young Indiana Jones series, starring Sean Patrick Flanery's hair.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Rodo on October 19, 2010, 01:08:27 pm
I read it, though all the names made me somewhat dizzy on the beginning, it's a nice setting and fits quite good.
Loving the silent war tactics and how privateers should work but what's the player supposed to do in such environment?
All there's to this setting are guard cargo and steal cargo missions, maybe some intel gathering mission as well, but the real fights might commence only when war is unleashed right?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 19, 2010, 01:18:21 pm
There's war, and there's war.

There is very little in the way of firm alliances at the time where the story starts. There is the token authority of the League of Nations, which is supposed to prevent a war, and there are two- and three-way alliances all over Europe. There is a lot of saber rattling, lots of "unfortunate incidents". Pirates can exist because the environment is such that the piracy is somewhat hidden under the smokescreen of international belligerence; there is always a border that you can cross to evade a pursuit, and there are always people who will pay you for messing up someone else's air freight.

The story I have in mind starts off with you as a normal pilot for one of the great powers, being driven to piracy after <insert political mishap here, basically you're being expelled as a sacrificial goat>. After flying around Europe for a bit under the Jolly Roger, you come across <something> that has the potential to unravel the balance of power, and it becomes a race against time to alert <the authorities> in order to prevent WW2 from breaking out.

Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 19, 2010, 01:20:04 pm
Plot point: the first NUCLEAR WEAPON!?

or are nukes played out, maybe tesla, maybe a certain new chemical incendiary?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 19, 2010, 01:25:09 pm
That might be an idea. As I said in an earlier post, nuclear power generation is already starting to mature (as in, first-generation nuclear plants are used on board the largest battleships), but I didn't decide on nuclear weapons. Having them appear would certainly upset the balance of power enough.

As would a new magic weapon from Tesla Inc.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: spyderrock48 on October 19, 2010, 06:37:28 pm
tesla would fit in very nicely in this universe ( it was in crimson skies wasent it ? lol )
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: General Battuta on October 19, 2010, 06:38:30 pm
There's also The Gas. And if WWI didn't go on very long, tanks might not exist.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 20, 2010, 12:35:04 pm
Groovy.  I'd be happy to change whatever parts you think don't fit and finish catching it up to the time period the game takes place in--I have some cool thoughts for how to handle the introduction of the flying ships and stuff, and really it's just a fun kind of scenario to write about.  Sort of reminds me of the Young Indiana Jones series, starring Sean Patrick Flanery's hair.

Go right ahead. We'll see how this works.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: starlord on October 20, 2010, 01:12:00 pm
hey! you forgot zeppelins! Huge big GARGANTUAN zeppelins!! ;7
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 20, 2010, 01:16:36 pm
No, I really didn't.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 21, 2010, 06:06:41 am
Yeah, up to 400m for anything in the air is in freaking enormous supertanker territory (or was that figure just meant for the flugstein ships, in which case it is still gigantic).  I think the Hindenberg was the biggest flying anything in history so far and it was under 250m.
Groovy.  I'd be happy to change whatever parts you think don't fit and finish catching it up to the time period the game takes place in--I have some cool thoughts for how to handle the introduction of the flying ships and stuff, and really it's just a fun kind of scenario to write about.  Sort of reminds me of the Young Indiana Jones series, starring Sean Patrick Flanery's hair.

Go right ahead. We'll see how this works.
Cool, I'll start typing it out.  Do you have any preference for how I should present it (ie one entry at a time or the whole thing all at once, or just do it via PMs or something)?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 21, 2010, 06:25:28 am
I figure 400 meters is the current upper end for flugstein ships equipped with nuclear reactors. "Standard" Zeppelins are still at a max of 250 meters; the problem isn't so much building them, as it is getting enough hydrogen or helium to keep the damn thing aloft (and, of course, engine power plays a role. Keeping something that big maneuverable requires a lot of power).

As for further entries, let's keep it at one thing at a time. Easier to swallow that way :)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: rscaper1070 on October 21, 2010, 01:57:46 pm
Hydrogen is actually really easy to produce. Run electricity through water and you get hydrogen and oxygen.  :nod:
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 21, 2010, 02:16:43 pm
Yes, of course, but Hydrogen is also rather slippery. In addition, its rather enthusiastic reaction when exposed to oxygen and open flame makes it a rather undesirable fuel.

So, to cover up my earlier mistake, I'd say that the difficulty with hydrogen-filled Zeppelins isn't the Hydrogen, it's storing the stuff so that it doesn't go boom at the first sight of a flame that's the problem.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 21, 2010, 10:38:14 pm
I'd imagine that most passenger ships (at least the decent ones) would be using imported Helium in a world economy like this.  Hydrogen would be ideal for minimally crewed freight ships because of its superior lifting capability and the fact that you wouldn't have to worry that someone on board might try to light up a cig or something.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: starlord on October 23, 2010, 04:13:29 am
I was actually wondering: is it feasable to actually include a cityscape in the SCP? say new york for the crimson MOD? Is it also possible to include in that destructible environments like buildings? has it been done before?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 23, 2010, 04:16:27 am
Yes, it's possible. With careful detail boxing etc, I imagine you could recreate a convincing cityscape.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 23, 2010, 07:01:03 pm
Sorry, been slacking off on this, but here is a sumptuous German Romantic entry to make up for it:
Quote
The Swiss Watch (continued)

Other governments soon adapted this profitable model to their own circumstances, offering similar salvage services and friendly borders to their currently non-hostile neighbors.  Although all countries were technically allies under the League of Nations, the need to prevent any potential rival from dominating the trade routes made for frequently rotating "friends of convenience" among the powers.  This highly competitive environment led to the fat being trimmed out of international operations, with each country tailoring its air force and commercial fleet to press any possible geographical or technological advantage it possessed.  It was during this period that the RAF perfected parasite fighter technology for its then-record overland connections--the lucrative London-Cairo-Delhi route made a round trip in less than half the total distance of the earlier African circuit, but it also carried its convoys within striking distance of almost every major player.  The French were slower to adapt their tactics and technologically, suffering a series of humiliating losses both to Sardinian pirates and American privateers based in neutral Spain.  Their failure to secure critical supply lines contributed to the gradual crumbling of French Africa, a process expedited by sharp devisions within parliament as to France's future as a colonial power.

Death and Transfiguration


The Weimar Republic by this point was teetering on the brink of revolution.  German shipping was preyed upon at a disproportionate rate--a popular joke of the day involved the Zeppelin "Faul Ausfahrt" misconstruing a radio message and being surrendered to some sort of unlikely pirate, most famously a group of Polish nuns.  With the Luftwaffe severely limited under the Treaty of Zurich, there was little to deter this piracy, resulting in the country's business interests failing to gain traction against their international competitors.  With the profits from German manufacturing being funneled off to pay war reparations, Germany had settled, miserably, into the role of Europe's bottomless source for cheap industrial labor.

This situation persisted until 1924, when a daring act of piracy catalyzed major political upheaval.  The United Kingdom had also for some time been frustrated in their efforts to hinder foreign shipping.  Although their Swiss contingent and airship-based privateers had found a measure of success, Britain's lack of high-value borders and the added difficulty of pulling prizes over the channel made them unattractive as allies, a fact which was constantly harped on by British newspapers.  The "frumpy dowager of Europe" was looking for something to cheer for, and James McCudden would give it to them.

On the moonless, overcast night of May 3rd, McCudden led a pair of Gloster Grebes over the German border from Denmark and captured a convoy carrying state-of-the-art Maybach airship engines en route to Berlin from Stuttgart.  Despite the entire Luftwaffe being roused from their beds and put in the air, no trace of the convoy could be found on likely exit vectors to Austria-Hungary, Poland, or even France, though two fighters were lost to friendly fire in an unfortunate incident near the Danish border.  Unbeknownst to the Germans, McCudden's plan involved having the convoy double-back and pass over the heart of Germany on its way to the Swiss border.  Refueling his fighters on shifts from an aged R33 class airship, he reached his destination without incident just before sunrise.

The sheer audacity of the raid set the press ablaze in both nations, and the handsome and gentlemanly McCudden was quickly knighted, officially for "diplomatic efforts in Switzerland".  The German public was incensed with the impotence of their armed forces, and McCudden's disparaging (and well-publicized) remarks about "the Hun" rubbed salt in the wound.  The incident, though of relatively minor impact in economic terms, touched a sore spot in the German psyche that had been festering since the War. 

In what was ostensibly an effort to prevent mass rioting, the well liked (and known monarchist) president Paul von Hindenburg accepted full responsibility for the failure and stepped down.  In reality, this was a shrewd political maneuver designed to force Europe to accept Germany's remilitarization.  The German public became fixated on the parallels between Hindenburg's resignation and Wilhelm's exile, both noble acts of sacrifice undertaken to preserve the Fatherland against its duplicitous foreign enemies.  Unwilling to accept further defeat and humiliation, the entire country was soon, for all intents and purposes, on strike; the Weimar Republic had ground to a halt.

Hoping to contain Germany and prevent a violent revolution, the powers offered to support the German aristocracy in reforming the government as a constitutional monarchy.  The great fear was that an unsupervised transformation could result in a Marxist government which would nationalize foreign assets and cut off Europe from her cash cow, leaving other nations similarly vulnerable.  The terms of the proposal allowed for a gradual enlargement of the Luftwaffe under the new regime, but they also made it clear that Wilhelm was never to return from exile to lead the new state.  Wilhelm presented a problem for Europe--he was so revered in his native land that killing him would almost certainly start a war, but he was also totally disinterested in the new economy, somewhat mentally unstable, and entirely uncontrollable by any means other than physical separation from the mechanisms of power.  By adopting this new strategy of appeasement while favoring the remaining aristocracy, the powers hoped that they would be able to both hold off Wilhelm and prevent the looming disaster.

The elite jumped at their offer, effectively accepting on behalf of all of Germany.  Less than three months after the "raid of the century", the aristocrats reentered the Reichstag in a peaceful transferal of power.  Still burdened with many years of reparations to pay off, the people were nonetheless placated by the gradual rebuilding of the Luftwaffe and the consequent success of German ventures abroad.  Though lagging far behind her neighbors militarily and economically, Germany was getting back on her feet.
Good/bad/ok?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Iss Mneur on October 23, 2010, 09:07:01 pm
Good/bad/ok?
IIRC, the war reparations for Gemany were paid for (in full?) by the giving flugstien and/or the technology to use it to the other powers.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 23, 2010, 09:41:51 pm
The flugstein technology isn't revealed until 1927 (next installment), so Germany would still have to have been making reparations for over a decade before that.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 24, 2010, 06:21:52 pm
Ship design inspiration:

(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs36/i/2008/246/3/1/The_Last_Knight_by_Luches.jpg) (http://luches.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d1f19vf)

EDIT: More:

(http://www.igorstshirts.com/blog/conceptships/2009/v_ling_6.jpg)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Scourge of Ages on October 24, 2010, 07:34:46 pm
OK, I was only cautiously hopeful about this at first, but now I absolutely must play this mod. NOW. Get crackin'.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 26, 2010, 10:51:33 am
More inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdV5AiFqWSI
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Ravenholme on October 27, 2010, 09:34:09 pm
More inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdV5AiFqWSI

Some of those designs are almost straight of Crimson Skies
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: starlord on October 28, 2010, 03:44:35 am
Funny how, while only a prototype, the shinden always makes a comeback in those universes...

I was actually thinking MOD physics like one of those would be interesting to get more kids interested in FSSCP... Imagine for instance featuring a shipset for one of their cartoon series like stormhawks (I think it's called that way...)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 28, 2010, 04:10:28 pm
A bit of progress, and the first opportunity for a modeller to Do Something!

mura kindly pointed me towards this address (http://combatace.com/topic/46611-crimson-skies-aircraft/), where there were two Crimson Skies models ready for download, the Fury and the Devastator.

At the moment, they are untextured, unLODed, and un-lots-of-things, so I would like to ask any interested modeller for help in converting these into FS2.
The model files here are in .blend and max format.

http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/CrimsonSkiesPlanes.zip

On another note, does anyone know if it's possible to import models from something like IL-2?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: spyderrock48 on October 28, 2010, 05:12:12 pm
they also apear to have quite inneficcient meshes and are not very wise in tehir polycount usage, this was the modelers first attempt at 3d modeling, thus he has likeley made many new modeler mistakes ( like the innificient polycount )
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 28, 2010, 05:15:18 pm
Yes, well, can that be fixed?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Angelus on October 30, 2010, 10:43:15 am
i took a look at them, and they need a ton of work. It's faster to create them from scratch, then tryin' to convert those models.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on October 30, 2010, 10:44:39 am
*sigh*

Back to the google, then......
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on October 30, 2010, 03:14:59 pm
I love the bladed prow design from that first picture with the decorated area where the figurehead would be on an old sailboat.

This place seems to have a good variety of free models (pretty decent number of them for unrestricted or non-commercial use), though I have no idea from looking at them if they could be acceptable in terms of poly or texture count as they might be more directed towards just producing renders:

http://www.sharecg.com/v/38612/browse/3D-Model/Spitfires

I'll get back to the writing soon.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on October 30, 2010, 04:03:20 pm
Had a quick look at the site below. Note that there's a "low-poly" board that might have some suitable models available - might be worth a look, but as I said earlier, I know little about this subject.

http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/ (http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/)

This one in particular has some Crimson Skies styling, but the thread is over 2 years old.

http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2736&highlight=iron+devil (http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2736&highlight=iron+devil)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on October 31, 2010, 03:32:48 am
Sorry for the double post. Below are links to scifi-meshes.com (the sister-site of military-meshes.com).

Pics of some scratch-built Crimson Skies models: http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?46090-Is-this-Scifi-enough-Crimson-Skies-Devastator-modification&highlight=crimson+skies (http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?46090-Is-this-Scifi-enough-Crimson-Skies-Devastator-modification&highlight=crimson+skies)

EDIT: Huh. I think that's the same Wyrmshadow chap in that devianART link I posted earlier.

Another interesting design: http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?18080-Alternate-Reality-Fighter-circa-1932&highlight=crimson+skies (http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/showthread.php?18080-Alternate-Reality-Fighter-circa-1932&highlight=crimson+skies)

Don't know if these are available to download anywhere though. Apparently StarSlayer's a member of that forum, so maybe he might be able to help with contacting these artists. Just an idea.

EDIT 2: Links to a CS fan site: http://www.montanaraiders.com/forum/index.php (http://www.montanaraiders.com/forum/index.php).
http://www.montanaraiders.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=32 (http://www.montanaraiders.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=32). I can't seem to find anything hosted for download here, but this may somehow be of use.

EDIT 3: Found some actual model files available to download this time at http://www.alexstoll.com/VRML/ (http://www.alexstoll.com/VRML/) - the file format is .wrl; not sure if that makes them useful to us. The Bell XP-59, Shinden, SM.55X, Swoose Goose and Interceptor have the right visual style, IMO.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Quanto on October 31, 2010, 03:34:08 pm
I got an interesting bit of historical data that may be relevant to your interests...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Macon_(ZRS-5) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Macon_(ZRS-5))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Akron_(ZRS-4) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Akron_(ZRS-4))

Both Airships were actual aircraft carriers. Keep in mind both also suffered horrible accidents, but don't take that as a "this could never work idea" but more of a "historical reference of developments leading up to the airships in your universe". The fact that OTL governments, including the United States experimented with these designs shows that a Crimson Skies Universe could have very well happened.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on October 31, 2010, 03:49:38 pm
I've found another site like AlexStoll.com with VRML files (.wrl extension): http://www.rccad.com/Gallery.htm (http://www.rccad.com/Gallery.htm). Can't seem to import them into Blender (although it should be able to import them), but they can be viewed using Cortona3D Viewer which is like a browser app. The models are also downloadable as .rcd files which can be opened with RcCad (which is also downloadable from this site). I know they look quite bland and lack detailed textures but it could be a starting point.

Perhaps someone with more experience could get an in-depth look at some of these models to get an idea of polycount, etc.

Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Angelus on October 31, 2010, 03:50:36 pm
so if someone has IL-2 installed, and wants go to the trouble of extracting the mesh files  ( ***.msh ) and the textures, that would be cool (for placeholder usage).
One or two models would suffice.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on October 31, 2010, 03:53:52 pm
I have IL2: 1946 installed so I could look into that......although I am a complete noob.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Angelus on October 31, 2010, 03:58:46 pm
i should warn you, i've checked what needs to be done, and it's quite a bit of work.


Here's a link to a guide, the required steps are 1-8 only. I don't want you to get into much work, so feel free to say "no".

http://fusionpack.net/newy/classtutorial.html


Edit: might have been cool if i would have added the link, right?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on October 31, 2010, 04:28:13 pm
I haven't used Java before but that seems to be straightforward.

This may sound really stupid but I'm not totally sure about 1C's and Oleg Maddox's position on having their assets used like this. I haven't actually done any modding before (:nervous:) so I know little about the legal terms of use (of course I know this is for non-commercial intentions but I'm wondering if there's anything else to be aware of).
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: starlord on November 01, 2010, 10:59:03 am
the akron and macon are thouroughly described in the air power: battle in the skies manual (crimson skies' "elder brother" for DOS)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on November 01, 2010, 11:17:46 am
the akron and macon are thouroughly described in the air power: battle in the skies manual (crimson skies' "elder brother" for DOS)

Yes, I remember Air Power fondly. I think it also mentioned the R100 or R101 as well. I have it installed but I can't get it to run on my system.

Does anyone have knowledge of X-Plane model files? Thaeris, are you reading this?

I've found a Sankai Mk.b here (http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=9459) but it seems that you need to join the forum in order to download. Recently I got a copy of X-Plane 9; I haven't really dabbled with it yet.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: ethaninja on November 01, 2010, 07:47:21 pm
I have IL2: 1946 installed so I could look into that......although I am a complete noob.

Yeah me too. But I'll also give it a shot ;)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Thaeris on November 01, 2010, 09:10:28 pm
the akron and macon are thouroughly described in the air power: battle in the skies manual (crimson skies' "elder brother" for DOS)

Yes, I remember Air Power fondly. I think it also mentioned the R100 or R101 as well. I have it installed but I can't get it to run on my system.

Does anyone have knowledge of X-Plane model files? Thaeris, are you reading this?

I've found a Sankai Mk.b here (http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=9459) but it seems that you need to join the forum in order to download. Recently I got a copy of X-Plane 9; I haven't really dabbled with it yet.

dad on the X-Plane forums made the Acron or the Macon, I can't remember which. I also have the Sparrowhawk fighter that was launched from the airship. However, I want you to keep in mind that converting a model from X-Plane is a pretty long and laborious task. Personally, I'd say that because the Acron and the Macon were pretty simple in terms of shape, you'd be better off getting the schematic for yourself and making your own model - A revolve operation for the envelope and an extrusion/shaping operation (plus a duplicate geometry an axial revolution,etc) for the fins will be the bulk of the work... Not to mention the gondola...

Regardless, if you must have the X-Plane model for your purposes, I can work on contacting dad and then rip the model. However, also keep in mind that I myself have a lot of work to do - there's nothing stopping anyone from doing these things themselves.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on November 03, 2010, 05:41:49 pm
Thanks for the information about that Thaeris.

I have IL2: 1946 installed so I could look into that......although I am a complete noob.

Yeah me too. But I'll also give it a shot ;)

You may have more success. Please bear in mind that I'm a novice and therefore I'm probably coming at this from the completely wrong angle.

Using the method that Angelus posted, I extracted the .msh files for the Bf-109E-4 - so far so good. I assumed that there'd be one .msh file for the aircraft model, but it's made up of 93 of them. Each is a separate component of the model (propeller, wing, landing gear and so on). I found a means of converting them to .OBJ files (via MshConverter) in order to import them into Blender, but I'm having problems getting each component of the model into a shape resembling a 109 - I tried grouping individual .msh files into one .OBJ file, thinking that maybe the pieces would come together properly, but it doesn't work.

So from what I can tell, I think they have to be put together in Blender (or some other program), or maybe there's something missing that tells the program where each piece goes. :confused:

I reckon that I should leave this to the experts.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on November 04, 2010, 10:41:25 am
Quote
A Mighty Fortress:

In 1927, a team of German scientists led by Albert Einstein and Werner Heisenberg announced to the world the development of a revolutionary technology--a substance capable of resisting gravitation and lifting incredible masses into the sky.  Dubbed "Flugstein" (literally "Flystone"), this modern wonder made its spectacular debut the very next day with the first publicized flight of the light cruiser Emden, a converted technology demonstrator that would change the course of history.

The gravity-defying properties of Flugstein were a complete revelation to the world.  In fact, the underlying principle demonstrated by this breakthrough was of even greater importance and profundity than the technology itself--the superunification of Einstein's theories of gravitation with Heisenberg's Quantum Mechanics.  Only slightly less amazing was the fact that Germany was able to keep their research operations a secret for so long.  Unfortunately for the world, the aristocracy was more interested in leveraging a potential weapons development than openly sharing information for the betterment of mankind, so these brilliant scientists were as tightly handled as the technology itself.

On the day of Emden's historic flight, a short message was issued both from Berlin and the floor of the League of Nations--Germany was willing to offer this miraculous knowledge to the former Entente powers as payment in full for their (extensive) remaining war reparations.  Although outwardly this was simply a business proposal, the communication's subtext heavily implied that the Flugstein would be shared exclusively with the United States should their demands not be met.  If a flying German navy scared the European powers, the thought of a technologically superior German - US alliance positively terrified them.  Germany, though a manufacturing powerhouse, was still weak enough that an alliance between two or three other nations could likely dominate her in a quick air war and demand that the Flugstein be handed over.  America, on the other hand, was practically inaccessible in the short term and could out-produce much of the rest of the world on her own, excluding Germany.  If she was the first to fly a substantial aero-naval force, she could park a battleship over every capital and effectively become the world's only superpower, or so the prevailing wisdom held.

In hindsight, it was clear that Germany had neither the capability nor the intention of keeping the technology to an exclusive group of allies--not only would holding the secrets indefinitely be all but impossible with spy networks operating in every port, such an action would completely undermine her hoped-for revival, turning her closest trade partners against her.  Over the past decade Germany and the United States had essentially become factories that built factories, yet they were as likely to collapse as any other nation if the demand that kept those factories running dried up or was funneled into a short-lived total war economy.

With every parliament and cabinet in emergency session, Germany had only to wait for the world's response.  Luckily for them, the French public was riding high on air power following Charles Lindbergh's historic New York-Paris flight and what was then thought to be the final victory of the Armée de l'Air over the Sardinian pirate "admiral" Don Luigi Sturzo.  As soon as news of the Emden hit the presses, every red blooded Frenchman was loudly demanding that their flying men be the ones to halt the power-hungry Germans.  Recognizing an opportunity to show the right that his Radical Party government was not comprised of spineless doves who would pander to his fellow Protestants across the border, president Gaston Doumergue ignored the objections of his Generals and committed France to battle.

Grand Debut:

On the morning of July 5th, sixty of France's best fighter and bomber craft departed Paris on a mission to destroy the prototype.  Stripped of all markings save their pilots' impressive listings of victories, "L'escadre" was already famous for its actions over the Mediterranean and Algeria, having served with distinction alongside the equally popular Foreign Legion Air Corps.  The level of publicity arranged ahead of the sortie was unprecedented, with L'escadre being framed by the newspapers as a group of noble knights riding out to slay the villainous Teutonic dragon.  While this meant that the Germans knew well ahead of time exactly what was coming for them, there was no way for them to hide the cruiser now that it had been revealed, and it was thought that the Luftwaffe was still far too poorly funded to challenge a veteran wing. 

Emden's shakedown voyage was plotted to follow the length of the Rhine northward (through territory that France had unsuccessfully tried to claim following the war).  After refueling at Nancy, the French wing spotted its quarry at 11:43 over the city of Mainz and immediately moved to attack.  Recognizing that a bombing the cruiser would be difficult and inadvisable over a major population center, their plan called for strafing runs with a focus on the ship's vulnerable engines and command tower.  Emden's defenses consisted of numerous machine gun emplacements and eight fifteen-centimeter guns that had been converted to fire timed fuze air burst shells, weapons that were regarded as largely ineffective even against the relatively slow fixed wing aircraft of the time.  As soon as the attacking force was spotted, these weapons were brought to bear and a full broadside was fired at near-maximum range.  Because the attackers were still flying in formation, history's first air-to-air bombardment was a success, with one fighter destroyed and another forced to ditch. 

These two victories proved to be the last of Emden's career, as her captain wisely decided he wanted nothing to do with the approaching force.  In a maneuver that shocked the French pilots and changed the face of modern warfare, Emden diverted full power to the Flugstein and rose six thousand meters straight into the air, putting the paltry climb rate of the fixed-wing aircraft to shame.  With a sinking feeling in their hearts, the French circled around to regain their altitudinal advantage, struggling to come within range of their foe before running out of fuel.  Their hopes were dashed once more when, upon pulling level with their target, Emden dropped like a stone back to its original position.  Lacking the dive breaks that would become the distinguishing feature of future planes designed to take down heavier-than-air ships, the fighters had no way of delivering a heavy blow to such an agile enemy. 

As L'escadre sent half its planes downwards in a final vain effort to reengage, the full might of the Luftwaffe dropped on them--over one hundred fighter craft led by none other than the newly instated Baron Manfred von Richthofen.  After focusing on Emden for the duration of the combat, the French were caught wrong-footed and their dive quickly turned into a rout.  Of the sixty craft that participated in the attack at Mainz, less than half that number returned to France, with the majority of those lost being forced to ditch due to fuel management.  Germany suffered less than twenty casualties in the engagement, including four civilians who were killed when an Amiot 120 crashed through the roof of a bakery.  This victory, coupled with the emergence of their cruiser unscathed from almost half an hour of air combat, seemed to point the way to the future.

Within a week of the incident, a deal was brokered in the League of Nations whereby the former Entente nations agreed to all of Germany's demands with the token provision that Kaiser Wilhelm had to remain in exile.  The lifting of the reparation debts substantially altered the face of Europe, as a sum which was expected to take forty years to pay off was erased in just over ten.  Over the following years, Flugstein technology proved to be somewhat difficult to adapt for actual combat purposes, with early experimental designs suffering from reliability concerns and extremely limited endurance.  Emden herself suffered a breakdown the day after the battle and was taken down the river to dock at Bonn before having her Flugstein grid removed for use in a more advanced prototype.

Following a series of catastrophic disasters over land and sea during the late twenties, battery backups were developed which could provide just enough power to gently ease a ship down to the nearest body of water, though some of the more recent designs are not entirely seaworthy and can only shut down their grids when in drydock.  The exact composition of Flugstein remains a closely guarded secret between the governments of the League of Nations' security council members, though the rare element Caesium is a known component of modern grids.  To date, the only recorded theft of this technology was by the Imperial Japanese Navy, when they captured the HMAS Amazon departing Hong Kong in 1932.  Outside of this incident, the following decade would prove to be a period of unprecedented growth and progress for the powers, with new players and forces emerging from within that would set the stage for today's conflicts and triumphs.
Within a few entries of the present day--what's the MacGuffin gonna be?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on November 04, 2010, 01:54:37 pm
I think Nukes are gonna be it.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Rodo on November 04, 2010, 02:16:21 pm
I like the political background swash is putting up, quite an interesting read.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Angelus on November 05, 2010, 06:09:25 am
I like the political background swash is putting up, quite an interesting read.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Thaeris on November 06, 2010, 09:12:13 pm
As a result of trying to give someone a tutorial/pointers on modeling in general, I now have a basic V-2 rocket modeled. As a test for myself, it's also UV mapped, but has no texture. Anyone may use the model for whatever suits their purposes, though in that case keep in mind that this is a sub-orbital rocket from WWII. Also, if you do use it, please note me down in the model credits.

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p1J3_ehh--5VMVUeLeTZrmITg7VhqjyBSBqgwJ6ZpWtW9OwFh6a-pYuDTzt7dSBSprAPPHnGRlr5sguHFaLyM3g/V-2%20Rocket.png?psid=1)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Scourge of Ages on November 06, 2010, 09:54:34 pm
Hmmmm, I had forgotten that those existed. I wonder how effective they would be against airships? Could they be accurate enough when fired from a ground launcher? Could smaller rockets be deployed on dive/torpedo bombers as opposed to conventional bombs?
<Hmmm.>
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Thaeris on November 06, 2010, 10:02:34 pm
If you were to use the V-2, why not use it as a weapon launched by airships upon ground targets?

If you want a missile to use against other airships, why not use a missile actually designed to shoot down aircraft? (http://www.luft46.com/missile/wasserfl.html)

However, these weapons are from the mid/late 40's (should the latter have entered service) - you'd need to make sure that they'd fit in agreeably with your mod. Then again, you do have giant flying battleships...
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Scourge of Ages on November 06, 2010, 10:08:13 pm
Yes, that would work nicely. :nod:
I was aware that small unguided rockets existed and were deployed on some bombercraft, but I thought they were only for surface bombardment, due to probable inaccuracy versus aircraft. I had absolutely no idea that such a thing as a guided anti-aircraft flak rocket ever existed back then, even in theory. That's really cool.
Think it would be theoretically easy enough (in this mod universe) to mount a guidance system and armor piercing tip on a V2-style rocket?
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on November 06, 2010, 10:10:33 pm
Yes, but the V2 was a weapon designed to act as an early suborbital bombardment weapon. I don't think the climate that swashmebuckle has created going off of my concept would be amenable for the development of such a weapon, since dealing with the floating ships requires something more along the lines of that Wasserfall SAM you posted.

Quote
Think it would be theoretically easy enough (in this mod universe) to mount a guidance system and armor piercing tip on a V2-style rocket?

Well, the necessary tech did exist back near the end of WW2. But honestly, the way I envisioned the combat here was more like bombers trying to get in position above a battleship, then unloading a mass of bombs, or doing dive-bombing precision attacks (The theory being that the ships are most heavily armored on their keel and sides to guard against ground-based artillery). Missile combat, I think, has not really advanced beyond what we are seeing in Crimson Skies, meaning that you have ship-to-ship torpedoes that are controlled via wire, or home-on-tag missiles.

To sum up, to get an airship to ground, you have to:
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on November 07, 2010, 05:30:37 am
IIRC in Air Power there's a device like the Wasserfall called the Sky Harvest, designed to destroy a fleet of airships (the rigid gas-filled type). But against floating battleships, I'd imagine a more precise means of delivering ordnance in order to breach their armour would be more favourable.

Still, a blast-effect weapon might be useful for removing escorting fighters / light dirigibles (if they haven't been pulled from service due to obsolescence) prior to starting a bombing run on the battleships.

Another idea I have is that because these ships are vulnerable to attack from above, in addition to having AAA, they could have rapidly inflatable barrage balloons anchored to them to provide a (perhaps minor) deterrant to aircraft flying above them. Of course, this would really only work if the ship was stationary in the air, because that way the balloons would be positioned directly above the deck, thereby providing the most cover. If the ship were moving, the balloons would probably be dragged behind it somewhat, unless they were somehow kept in an optimal position and height above the deck. Overall, I suppose this would probably be a last-ditch means of defence if the AAA were to be destroyed. Alternatively, barrage balloons could be used as an emergency means of reducing the rate of descent in the event of damage to the Flugstein grid.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: starlord on November 07, 2010, 02:39:01 pm
just something I saw:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/invasion1/images/hastings-ingame#imagebox
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on November 08, 2010, 04:47:41 am
I've done a bit more research on barrage balloons and about how they could form a better deterrent to aircraft. Balloon aprons (http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/2666495/Hulton-Archive?language=en-GB&location=GBR) could be deployed by having each balloon anchored to a separate ship (or a single large ship, with one balloon anchored to the bow and the other to the stern), thereby providing a kind of mobile shield that could be deployed where needed around a battleship. This could be used to defend against side, rear or frontal attacks. The cables are there to ensnare aircraft, but I’m also thinking of a variety that could have explosives contained in the cables that could be detonated on contact with flying anti-ship torpedoes or aircraft. Some historical barrage balloons carried explosive charges that would be pulled up and come into contact with aircraft, making them a sort of aerial mine.

You could possibly have a similar design for warding off attacks from above (or maybe even from below?), with the cables forming a web that would be hung horizontally between the balloons. I’d imagine that the presence of balloons above a ship would obstruct dive-bombers, and carpet bombing would have to take place at a higher altitude, forcing bombers into the range of concentrated AAA fire (WW2 AAA mounts didn't have the fast-tracking ability of modern AA guns, which made defending against fast low flying aircraft more difficult). As a result of this, bombing accuracy would be decreased. If a captain chose to hover above a city or civilian infrastructure then this would probably deter any bombing run, assuming that the enemy doesn’t want to inflict civilian casualties.

You could also perhaps have anti-ship mines, such as larger versions of the explosive-carrying balloons, or maybe some kind of Flugstein-powered device that has some sort of low-tech homing ability.

To counter the balloons, they could be simply shot down or, as the Luftwaffe attempted in WW2, have aircraft outfitted with special cable cutting devices attached to their wings. I can imagine that the presence of well placed balloons (combined with effective AAA and a fighter screen) would make downing a ship more of a challenge. In gameplay terms it would be fun trying to dodge and/or shoot down these obstacles, so as to pave the way for a bomber strike.

I partly got the idea of including such things from the old Carrier Command game; those of you who may remember it might recall those expendable, programmable decoys that you could deploy around the carrier in a particular formation to distract incoming missiles. Although I've tried to tweak the concept of barrage balloons in order to apply it to this setting, I think that I might not have thought it through well enough. You can probably come up with reasons why barrage balloons wouldn't be needed to be applied to aerial fleets, so feel free to pick apart these ideas.

Some sources of info that I've been looking at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrage_balloon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrage_balloon) (a general summary)
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj89/sum89/hillson.html (http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj89/sum89/hillson.html) (an interesting essay-like article which covers their history and suitability for modern-day air defence - well, as modern as it was in 1989)
http://www.worldwar-two.net/armamento/90/ (http://www.worldwar-two.net/armamento/90/) (interesting article which covers their effectiveness during WW2)
http://longstreet.typepad.com/thesciencebookstore/2008/04/the-semi-encaps.html (http://longstreet.typepad.com/thesciencebookstore/2008/04/the-semi-encaps.html) (plans for balloon deployment around London leading up to the war)
http://www.skylighters.org/barrageballoons/ (http://www.skylighters.org/barrageballoons/) (more history and some pictures).

Edit: Replaced bad link in first para with a working one, added an extra link and altered a few sentences.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on November 08, 2010, 02:45:11 pm
Here are a few designs (pictures only) that might be useful for any modellers interested in this project to base their designs on - a carrier type airship (looks like a rigid type), a giant seaplane, and a combat autogyro.

http://solidstate.110mb.com/index.php?entryid=140 (http://solidstate.110mb.com/index.php?entryid=140)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=788131 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=788131) - the third page in this thread has some profile views that might be useful.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Thaeris on November 08, 2010, 10:01:57 pm
You know, I really quite love that combat autogyro.

 :)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Rodo on November 10, 2010, 10:43:49 am
This one:  linky (http://xiaofootball.deviantart.com/art/I-Shall-Submit-Something-185666010?q=in:gameart/gameconcepts/vehicles+sort:time&qo=0) and  linky2 (http://xiaofootball.deviantart.com/art/I-Shall-Submit-Something-185666010?q=in:gameart/gameconcepts/vehicles+sort:time&qo=0#/d31w2rv)

Some of the concepts by this guy are pretty cool.
sorry not the same guy, just deviations under the same category.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: JGZinv on November 10, 2010, 12:48:45 pm
Found you guys some more concept art.
http://io9.com/5686141/the-blimp-was-on-fire-at-the-edge-of-the-atmosphere-platform

Maybe you should get a title and your own section started. Being stuck in modding is kinda odd...
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on November 10, 2010, 04:02:03 pm
Not sure if this has been done before....but what about using user-made Microsoft Flight Simulator models? Here are some examples (http://www.daviator.com/fscs.htm). Note that some of these are unfinished and lack textures, also note the disclaimer near the bottom.

It seems that FSDS (Flight Simulator Design Studio) is required for editing and converting, but that's only available via purchase from Abacus. There's a free plug-in for it called CVA to provide support for exporting to extra file formats.

There are lots of freeware Flight Sim models out there to download. Going by the detail that such models can have, I'm not sure that they would be the best to use.

(On another note, I once found a site offering free models of a Colonial Viper and the Millennium Falcon for Flight Sim. :cool:)

Perhaps the VRML (.wrl) files that I posted links to earlier would be easier to convert and use for the time being. Ignore what I said earlier about Blender not loading them - you need to select 'X3D & VRML97' in the import file menu. Am wondering if this Me-109 might be worthy of conversion. There are some issues with the canopy, the tailplane struts and a couple of minor holes in the mesh. 2,022 faces.

(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/372/me1091g.jpg)

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7429/me1092.jpg)

Also, here's a Bell XP-59 (that looks a bit more like an XP-52 to me) that I posted on the IRC channel recently, from AlexStoll.com.

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8171/xp59.jpg)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Thaeris on November 10, 2010, 09:38:17 pm
Well, if you can convert them, fine. But keep in mind that you'll need to reduce the detail heavily once you've optimized the mesh. The one thing I can tell you immediately is that good models don't come freely - either by making it yourself or converting it to your own purposes, you're in for a lot of work.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: swashmebuckle on November 11, 2010, 08:42:15 pm
Now to multiply the potential factions:
Quote
The Roaring Thirties

According to most mainstream economists, the arms race that has dominated international politics from the late twenties to the present day has failed to substantially alter the balance of power between the European states.  Internally, however, major shifts have occurred that have made unlikely allies of former enemies and vice-versa.  The most important development, and one which was going on well before the advent of Flugstein reenergized the military buildup, was the emboldenment of an emergent corporate class.  Distinct from the old aristocratic bases of power, this nouveau riche had little interest in international conflicts and would frequently come into conflict with their governments' policies.  In wealthy but vulnerable border cities, representatives of this class were able to amass significant support, to the point where the state was forced to grant them the right to create local air forces to protect their ports with.  These armies, though small and lightly equipped, are more well suited to their duties than the national forces, which basically serve a deterrent role.  As a result of this realignment, many border metropoles are now effectively city states unto themselves, with only limited defense and taxation agreements tying them to their mother counties.

Another bone of contention between business and government is the issue of narcotics smuggling, a phenomenon that has become increasingly prominent as standards of living have risen.  While majorities in most nations support the prohibition of opiates and other drugs for their perceived detrimental effects on society, the presence of significant demand as well as the sheer volume of air traffic to hide in have secured a virtually bottomless supply of "entrepreneurs" willing to take the risks.  As the drug cartels do not interfere with local shipping, business magnates are loath to waste resources pursuing smugglers and typically advocate a laissez-faire approach to these social issues.  Consequently, a situation has developed similar to that of alcohol in America in which a city's dedicated policing squadrons have no interest in enforcing the law of the land (and often actually turn a considerable profit from the smugglers' business), leaving national agencies to deal with the criminal underground (and, some suspect, their corporate backing).

Within this fluid and multilayered political situation, corporate power is held in check by a number of social and regulatory factors.  At home, most governments are extremely popular, whereas business interests are seen as more of a necessary evil.  Whereas the exploits of storied units and aces have furthered the patriotic romanticization of fighting for king and country, revelations of rampant corporate greed such as that which triggered the first Venetian lending crisis have cast the new money in a highly unflattering light.  Those corporate-dominated autonomous border areas which do exist are looked on with suspicion by the heartlands' true believers, with many believing that the people of such regions are little better than foreigners.  At the same time, the nationalization of industry, whether for left or right-leaning motivations, is viewed unfavorably by the governing classes.  To see the ugly results of such attempts, Europe's leaders need only look to the chaos of the South American states, where numerous military interventions by the United States have been necessary in order to stymie progress-killing populist revolts and coups d'état.

The exceptions to this model have been The United Kingdom and Germany.  In the UK, parliament was already in step with business interests long before the surge of the thirties, and the Empire's history of granting broad corporate mandates in colonized territories, coupled with a lack of borders on the home front, has helped ease the new class more seamlessly into the national discourse.  For these reasons, explicit profit motives do not carry the same stigma in Britain as they do in mainland Europe, and England is noted for its well-informed citizenry's high level of participation in their governance, though certain colonized regions of the commonwealth are understandably less enthused.

Eisernes Kreuz

Germany's unique relationship with the newly empowered group comes more from the country's recent history and zeitgeist, with a shared resentment of all non-Germans stemming from the events which ended and followed the World War.  To the people, German border cities were vulnerable not because of failures of the military to quickly respond to pirate threats, but because the Luftwaffe had been crippled by the treacherous Treaty of Zurich.  German industry was not an ignoble but necessary pursuit; it was the only lifeline sustaining the German people.  German banking was almost nonexistent.  With foreign enemies to blame for all of her woes, the internal tensions that mired other nations were swept away in Germany by a sense of shared outrage and purpose--infighting was exactly what their oppressors wanted of them, and only the belief that German ingenuity and spirit would ultimately prevail could see them through their darkest times.  When the military restrictions were finally lifted (by the brilliance of German minds, no less), Germany quickly began to build what has become the world's most modern air force, and amicably negotiated contracts between capital and labor (including some notable cases where employees actually own their companies) helped to keep the mechanisms of government and production efficient and relatively free of discord.

After the Flugstein incident caught the other powers flat-footed, this prodigious growth spurt made their old foe a serious threat once again, and a means of breaking German unity and resolve was sought.  The problem Europe faced was that no amount of punishment or misfortune could halt Germany's momentum; for example, being the target of a disproportionate share of pirate raids only fed into the German people's sense of us-against-them, pushing them to augment their technological and industrial advantages.  Trade tariffs against German goods were even less productive as they both reenforced Germany's self-perception and highlighted their own countries' disunity when, inevitably, some nation would cut a sweetheart deal with the Reichstag and leap ahead of the others.  The United States also hindered efforts at isolating Germany; their status as a non-belligerent in the World War left them in the perfect position to establish lasting and lucrative trade ties.

The means of containing this threat was eventually found in the person of the former Kaiser Wilhelm, now an embittered old man living in exile.  Ever since the end of the War, Wilhelm had been maneuvering for a return to power, but his nation's weakness precluded any such action.  Now that Germany was approaching a dominant position, he found his efforts blocked by the current government, a group that was not eager to be removed from power.  While Wilhelm (and, to a lesser extent, his eldest son, the former crown prince William) were considered great heroes by the German people, there was little concrete support for a possible return with Germany being as prosperous as it was--the old royalists such as Hindenburg had fallen out of favor with the public after the failure of the Weimar Republic, and Wilhelm's official abdication gave the current leaders all the excuse they needed to deny his restoration.

Hoping that the threat of regime change would convince the aristocracy to deal with them on more equal footing, the European powers began secretly backing Wilhelm against the sitting German government.  Receiving generous donations from allies all over the world, the old Kaiser soon found himself in possession of a personal Swiss airbase and the world's largest private air force.  Even more galling for the Reichstag were the frequent sightings of Wilhelm's famous Imperial airship over German territory (he often traveled between estates in Switzerland and the Netherlands, particularly during election times).  Though at first scoffed at, these activities exposed hidden divisions between those who had grown up under the old Imperial Germany and were still eager to avenge their losses and a younger generation who wanted to put those dark times behind them. 

The aristocrats could decry his foreign backers until they were hoarse--for a sizable portion of the populace, Wilhelm embodied the purest essence of Germany, and only his restoration would fully return her lost glory.  In supporting the Imperialists, Europe gained by proxy what it could not achieve directly--leverage over their largest competitor.  Of course, being manhandled in this way eroded the current regime's position even more.  Wilhelm would never accept the short end of a bargain with foreigners; Wilhelm would not suffer these fools in the League of Nations, and so on.  The game that Europe was engaged in was a dangerous balancing act--if the Kaiser became too bold and launched an invasion, support would have to be pulled and the puppet threat of Imperial power would be deflated, leaving them back at square one.  Worse yet, if he actually had some success, it could trigger a full scale popular revolt, restore the Imperial throne, and plunge Europe into a second World War.  Though several skirmishes have broken out between Wilhelm's Luftstreitkräfte and the Luftwaffe, little has come of it so far outside of a series of one-sided contracts for Germany's enemies and a greater incentive for all the players to continue their struggle for technological superiority.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: gevatter Lars on November 14, 2010, 05:27:32 am
I just found something funny in the P.M. magazin that could very well be build using "Flugstein"...... the "V7 - Flugscheibe"
Its a modern myth of a wonderweapon of the german army build by Hitler in secret...or so the myth goes.

When I saw the image of it and remebered the "Flugstein" capabilitys I thought...that is definitly something this mod should have ^_^
They also had a pretty nice image of it that attached to this post.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: ssmit132 on November 14, 2010, 06:36:44 am
Just thought I'd let you know: another good place to get aircraft models is from YSFlight. Although the default distribution only comes with a few WWII-era aircraft, there are plenty of addons available (getting permission may be a problem though). I have a utility that can convert YSFlight meshes to VRML files. The only problem is that YSFlight does not use texture maps - all colours are created by the geometry - so depending on what you convert, you may need to do some work to remove the inefficiencies that this causes.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: lostllama on November 14, 2010, 09:25:54 am
Yeah, I was going to mention the YSFlight models but decided not to when I found out about those texture limitations. I think Thaeris extracted some ship models from it a while back for use in another atmospheric flight mod (there's a thread about it somewhere). Those looked somewhat modern though. I'm not sure if WW2 style vessels are featured in it.

It would be great to have models of actual historical WW2 naval vessels converted to Flugstein-powered vessels. Some of the ships from the Leviathans game would probably fit in well (http://monstersinthesky.com/gallery/ (http://monstersinthesky.com/gallery/)).

Well, if you can convert them, fine. But keep in mind that you'll need to reduce the detail heavily once you've optimized the mesh. The one thing I can tell you immediately is that good models don't come freely - either by making it yourself or converting it to your own purposes, you're in for a lot of work.

You're correct. I'd probably take this on if I was more experienced.

EDIT: FlightGear model library: http://www.flightgear.org/Downloads/aircraft-2.0.0/ (http://www.flightgear.org/Downloads/aircraft-2.0.0/). As always, permission required before use. Info on importing and exporting these models here (http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Model_import_and_export).
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Thaeris on November 14, 2010, 10:47:57 am
Ultimately we determined we wouldn't use YS Flight models for FS Atmospheric. With my program, when getting a VRML dumped from the application (which required a buggy tool, etc., etc.), the mesh was not fused, and each surface was its own object. Even worse, none of the objects could be merged together. To get a coherent mesh, I needed to cut off a part of the target model, save it as a sub-object, and then take a quad mesh and drag each vertex into position, eventually making a clone of the original shape.

As you can guess, that's a LOT of work, and then you'd need to UV and texture the thing still. Furthermore, permissions would still need to be obtained. With such a community as YS Flight, or what I precieve of their community, the latter might be a formidable task indeed. In that regard, you're better off working with an X-Plane model - which is actually something I'm working on in my background projects right now.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: ethaninja on November 15, 2010, 03:55:36 am
So, is this mod going down or not? :P
I would really like to be a part of it in some way. But I'm not sure how I would go about doing that >.<
I've only just started out in c++ programming so I'd be useless in that aspect, and well, I'd probably come 1, 000, 000, 000th in a 3D Modelling tournament of 50 contestants.

Honestly, the only thing I consider myself to be is a good actor. And even then, I haven't had someone judge my performance.

Well, if I am or not, doesn't bother me. I would really just love to see and play this mod ;)
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Angelus on November 15, 2010, 04:05:05 am
So, is this mod going down or not? :P
I would really like to be a part of it in some way. But I'm not sure how I would go about doing that >.<
I've only just started out in c++ programming so I'd be useless in that aspect, and well, I'd probably come 1, 000, 000, 000th in a 3D Modelling tournament of 50 contestants.

Honestly, the only thing I consider myself to be is a good actor. And even then, I haven't had someone judge my performance.

Well, if I am or not, doesn't bother me. I would really just love to see and play this mod ;)

Then you're better then me...  :(
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Vardar on November 15, 2010, 05:15:26 am
hello mates, i wouldnt mind helping out with modeling, even though im not that great, im prepered to try and help out^^ just need some refrence to go by seeing as i never played crimson skies
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: The E on November 15, 2010, 05:45:43 am
Well, to be perfectly honest, I am not that interested in using Crimson Skies designs verbatim.

Take a look at the various "inspiration" posts scattered in this thread for visual cues, what I'm looking for can be summed up as "Flying ships from the 1940s".

As for fighters and bombers, if it looks like it would fit in a WW2-era setting, it'll be considered.
Title: Re: Crimson Skies-ish mod?
Post by: Vardar on November 15, 2010, 06:44:38 am
ok so WWII era fighters and bombers and WWII Era looking battleships/carriers just able to fly? ill try to make something  soon to show
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on November 18, 2010, 04:33:36 pm
And now, thanks to Angelus, we have a name. Hope you like it (but since I do, you're outvoted if you don't :p )
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Angelus on November 18, 2010, 04:48:05 pm
And now, thanks to Angelus, we have a name. Hope you like it (but since I do, you're outvoted if you don't :p )

Yay!

I agree it's a good name for an awesome mod!
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: swashmebuckle on November 19, 2010, 03:19:36 am
Quote
I am the author. You are the audience. I outrank you!
Sounds good, though it'll need a cool logo to distinguish it from all the other projects with FS for initials...Maybe just a little snapshot of the Hindenburg or something?

Been working on FotG of late; I'll try to finish up this backstory draft over Thanksgiving break.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on November 19, 2010, 03:49:23 am
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/freeskies.png)

A bit lame, but it's the best I could come up with for now
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: ethaninja on November 19, 2010, 06:31:42 am
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/freeskies.png)

A bit lame, but it's the best I could come up with for now

Hmm, wouldn't that be a bit contradictory to the game? To me it implies Freedom in the skies :P Which there is non. Just mad death and destruction and awesome fun. But, that's just what I got from playing the game. I'm no philosopher so it could mean anything to anyone.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: swashmebuckle on November 19, 2010, 08:03:09 am
That stencil font has the WWII vibe down, but it's not very swashbuckling.  I'm curious as to what sort of mood you'll be going for--I'm hoping for Captain Blood with more explosions :D
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Angelus on November 19, 2010, 09:46:21 am
opinions?


(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/Free%20Skies/FSFS3.png)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Rodo on November 19, 2010, 10:00:30 am
I think the one by The E looks better, but I would change the size and color of the letters.

It's supposed to be a free sky!, make it seem like the letters are faded or really small so that the sky is actually free.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Angelus on November 19, 2010, 11:20:28 am
free? what do you mean with "free"?


Update:

(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/Free%20Skies/FSFS4.png)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Rodo on November 19, 2010, 12:04:22 pm
free as in freedom, that's what the title says to me.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Mobius on November 19, 2010, 01:18:56 pm
The name's an awesome tribute to FreeSpace. I like it. :yes:
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: JGZinv on November 19, 2010, 01:38:23 pm
shrink Angelus's image to 25x25 without text (return it to color too) and you have a
mod badge...
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Angelus on November 19, 2010, 02:31:27 pm
Badge candidate and new version


(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/Free%20Skies/Badge.png)  <--- and yeah, that one sucks


(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/_Angelus_/Free%20Skies/FSFS5.png)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Hades on November 19, 2010, 04:19:57 pm
free as in freedom, that's what the title says to me.
no, it's free as in FreeSpace, mods from games do this incorporate the game's name in our mod-name **** all the time.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: StarSlayer on November 19, 2010, 06:18:11 pm
I got poked on irc and had a chat with Angelus and The_E.  I'd be willing to contribute some stuff to this.  The capitalship designs I've shown here and on SFM, such as the Undine and Zitadelle, are for their own verse/project that I'm loathe to give up.  That said I'm willing to pitch in some equipment, espeicilally psuedo WW2 Fighters since my verse uses countergrav biplanes and I'd be stoked to design some prop birds.  Capital ships will be a bit harder but I think since I mainly focused on WW1/interwar Royal Navy, High Seas Fleet, and Czarist Russia for my own stuff, I can probably throw together some cool new stuff based on WW2 faction design and more exotic hull setups that will be unique to what I did before.

So first off you can have my Tractor/Pusher V-12 fighter right off the bat.  If I get time I'll throw together some other stuff for Monday.

(http://i38.tinypic.com/2yjxytc.jpg)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Dilmah G on November 19, 2010, 11:28:41 pm
Hmm, engine/forward fuselage looks like a merge between an Fw-190Ta-152 and a P-51. Wings definitely look like they're from a Corsair.

Translation: That looks really good. :D
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: ethaninja on November 20, 2010, 12:59:15 am
free as in freedom, that's what the title says to me.
no, it's free as in FreeSpace, mods from games do this incorporate the game's name in our mod-name **** all the time.

Oh yeah, I didn't realize that =D
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Droid803 on November 20, 2010, 01:32:16 am
Shouldn't it be FreeSkies (or FreeSky) then, without the space? :P
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on November 20, 2010, 01:35:16 am
No.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: PeterX on November 20, 2010, 04:05:08 am
This craft looks more like a Me 284/Me 285 prototype faster than a Me 262 turbojet.
Peter
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: BengalTiger on November 20, 2010, 10:52:15 am
Here's some Polish stuff that was due in the '40's:

The PZL 53:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL.53_Jastrz%C4%85b_II
(http://samolotyiiwojny.cba.pl/jastrzabstary.jpg)

(http://odkrywca.pl/forum_pics/picsforum24/jaszczomb.jpg)

(http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/rys/rys050.jpg)

The PZL 54:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL.54_Ry%C5%9B
(http://awiacja.republika.pl/Foto/pzl-54.jpg)
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6246/studio201s.jpg)
(http://lucasgraphics.ovh.org/images/3d/rys_studio1.jpg)

PZL 55/PZL-62:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL.55

(http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/rys/rys070.jpg)
(http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/rys/rys049.jpg)
(http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/rys/rys198.jpg)

PZL 49:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL.49_Mi%C5%9B
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ee/PZL_49_Mis.jpg)

The 49 was based on the PZL 37:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/PZL-37_Los.jpg)

I could work on a little backstory for Poland that would fit the Free Skies universe when I get some free time...

(http://i38.tinypic.com/2yjxytc.jpg)

Is it just me, or is this thing larger than a B-25?
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Trivial Psychic on November 20, 2010, 09:14:58 pm
It looks like it could be a bit unstable with such a short tail.  It might do better to lengthen the distance aft of the pusher engine, using an extension shaft as with the Do-335.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Dilmah G on November 21, 2010, 12:12:22 am
Is it just me, or is this thing larger than a B-25?
Well from memory, the Ta-152 (aircraft the forward fuselage bears striking resemblance to) was also on the larger side.

But looking at the pilot vs. the wings, especially, makes the aircraft look quite large. Good for bootlegging operations? Booze in the aft tank and cruise feeds on wing tanks? ;)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: BengalTiger on November 21, 2010, 03:55:35 am
Well, the Ta-152 was a whopping 10.82 meters long, the Do-335 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_335) was 13.85 m long, and the B-25 was 16.1 m long, so the concept art looks larger than the planes it was based on.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Bobboau on November 22, 2010, 03:29:24 pm
it's too bad venom isn't still around he would have eaten this thing right up.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on November 22, 2010, 09:06:29 pm
Whatever happened to him anyway?

Some neat jet fighters, not sure if they were posted before:

Yak-17:
(http://www.aviation.ru/Yak/Yak-17.jpg)

Yak-23:
(http://cdn.globalaircraft.org/media/img/planes/lowres/yak-23_1.jpg)

Saab 21R:

(http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acimages/saab21r_erikfrikke.jpg)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: ssmit132 on November 23, 2010, 01:29:38 am
Saab 21R:
*snip*
There's also the older piston variant of that aircraft:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/Saab_J_21A-3.jpg/800px-Saab_J_21A-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: gevatter Lars on November 23, 2010, 03:19:10 am
I know its not a real plane but it looks cool

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Dilmah G on November 23, 2010, 03:42:19 am
I find the aircraft's appearance a little funny, for some reason. ;)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: ssmit132 on November 23, 2010, 05:25:15 am
You aren't the only one.

Either it's too short or has too wide a wingspan.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: BengalTiger on November 23, 2010, 05:28:33 am
There's a historical plane that looks like that...

Meet the @$$-ender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss-Wright_XP-55_Ascender)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Curtiss_XP-55_Ascender_in_flight_061024-F-1234P-007.jpg)

A jet powered version with a bubble canopy would be nice for this mod.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: starlord on November 23, 2010, 07:36:23 am
wait... is that a captured shinden?

or perhaps an ascender prototype?

the shinden was supposed to be jet powered, I think... only the prototype mounted a piston engine.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: StarSlayer on November 23, 2010, 07:59:23 am
That's no Shinden. The J7W had a rockin' sexy body.

(http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Shinden/Shinden_3.jpg)

Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: BengalTiger on November 23, 2010, 08:19:32 am
After looking at the J7W, I moved on to a few other planes...

And I've noticed that the P-80 totally outperforms the Me 262:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-80_Shooting_Star

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262

The US fighter is a couple years younger, but I was pretty sure it was the Germans that are far ahead in terms of airplanes...
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: starlord on November 23, 2010, 08:36:26 am
how foolish: I didn't read the picture title! :lol:
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Hades on November 23, 2010, 11:35:51 am
(http://www.metaninja.com/blog/images/markers/flying-ship-large.jpg)
**** yeah that's pretty much a flying sub.
(http://www.isotx.com/uploads/Ome_Vince/dreadnoughtbig1.jpg)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on November 23, 2010, 11:56:51 am
(http://www.isotx.com/uploads/Ome_Vince/dreadnoughtbig1.jpg)

Now that's a good find.

Even though the turret layout is insane. Seriously, where do they store the Ammo for those guns?
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: BengalTiger on November 23, 2010, 02:31:04 pm
(http://www.isotx.com/uploads/Ome_Vince/dreadnoughtbig1.jpg)

Objection!!!

The above ship has a main battery- the big guns in the turret, then it has a secondary and tetriary battery in the casemates along the lower/upper/lower centerline. That makes it a pre-dreadnought. Dreadnoughts had one primary battery, and then a much smaller secondary one, without anything in between.

It might fit this universe rather nice though.

As for the subs- they could be units specialized in flying really low, compared to the higher altitudes of the other warships. They'd have to be small, fast and maneuverable to avoid colliding with powerlines, trees, buildings and other obstacles the big ships avoid by flying higher. This would allow the 'subs' to move in really close before getting detected by radar- they'd simply hide in the Earth's reflection on the early radar sets. They could then pop up, torp the warships and dive back, hoping to loose the pursuers.

Sub destroyers could be special units with their largest caliber on the bottom of their hull. They could double as close support units for ground forces.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on November 23, 2010, 02:34:40 pm
The submarine design pictured there is far too modern for the scope of this project. It looks like a 70s/80s design; using advances in jet propulsion tech to replace the propellers of the designs we're dealing with, and being armed with a VLS battery.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: JGZinv on November 23, 2010, 04:34:33 pm
Some additional art you might find interesting.

http://www.animepaper.net/art/40844/anatoray-fleet

http://www.animepaper.net/art/40995/tatianas-vanship

http://www.animepaper.net/art/40896/silvana

http://www.animepaper.net/art/40728/disith-fleet

http://www.animepaper.net/art/41119/urbanus

http://www.animepaper.net/art/40627/exile
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Trivial Psychic on November 23, 2010, 07:02:28 pm
wait... is that a captured shinden?
or perhaps an ascender prototype?
the shinden was supposed to be jet powered, I think... only the prototype mounted a piston engine.
There were plans for a jet-powered version, but the initial plans were solely for the piston-powered arrangement.  The J7W1 was in fact capable of reaching 469 mph, so it was no slouch, though reported plans for the turbojet version would have had it powered by a Japanese copy of a German jet engine, the Ne-130.  I don't think that it could have competed as well just one engine... not enough to warrant the poorer fuel consumption.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on November 23, 2010, 07:13:51 pm
Do not forget that the Shinden was not fully tested, so its estimated performance figures should be taken with a grain of salt only. In fact, if my memory is accurate in this regard, its flight test program was minimal at best before the end of hostilities.

As for the Curtiss Ascender (whose name was actually a bad company joke, a little known fact which is a bit fun to point out), I'd not waste time even considering that one. The design of the aircraft was flawed in so many regards... it only makes it into WWII alt-history games as it looks cool. With this knowledge in mind, please go for something better like the Northrop XP-79B or the McDonnell XP-67 - you know, aircraft that with a bit more development time could have been of some value in service.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Commander Zane on November 23, 2010, 08:43:08 pm
(http://www.isotx.com/uploads/Ome_Vince/dreadnoughtbig1.jpg)

Now that's a good find.

Even though the turret layout is insane. Seriously, where do they store the Ammo for those guns?
ZeroSpace ordinance cells.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: BengalTiger on November 24, 2010, 06:57:09 am
ZeroSpace ordinance cells.

That would involve going ein Stein further from history than just having the Flugstein.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: StarSlayer on November 24, 2010, 08:31:40 am
A pair of fighters

Mixed up some P-51 and Recon Spitfire (http://www.aviationphoto.co.uk/Pictures/Rolls%20Royce%20Spitfire%20PR.XIX%20PS853%20G-RRGN%20%20Kemble%202006.jpg):

(http://i53.tinypic.com/2mq6sjt.jpg)

Blended one of my favorite aircraft the FW-190D-9 (http://www.japo.eu/images/article001_black18.jpg) with elements of the FW-190C (http://www.focke-wulf190.com/images/fw190C.jpg) test plane.  Plus I slapped on the Iron Cross and Prussian Eagle:

(http://i56.tinypic.com/5kly6v.jpg)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on November 24, 2010, 10:32:01 am
Those are some nice sketches.

Yet another site for ideas: http://www.warbirds.jp/ (http://www.warbirds.jp/). This page (http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/sakuki5.html) in particular has some unorthodox designs, but I can only seem to view it in the Japanese language version of the site (the characters aren't correctly displayed on my computer though).

EDIT: The Dreadnought Project (http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/) looks quite useful too. It has copies of historic ship plans. Granted, they look like old parchments but they're probably worth a look.

EDIT 2: And another: http://www.bigbadbattleships.com/ (http://www.bigbadbattleships.com/).
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Vardar on November 26, 2010, 01:49:41 pm
hey mates, sorry for the long wait, i had some busy days.

made something, first im gonna try and make a normal warship like ship and then ill try to figure out a way to add some flying to it, ideas are welcome

(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4439/cruise2r.jpg)




Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on November 26, 2010, 01:59:28 pm
Okay, first of all, instead of img, use lvlshot. This will resize the pic to the browser window size.

Second, that looks pretty cool already, but I would suggest to lengthen it a bit. It might just be the perspective (in which case a 3-view render might be a good idea), but it sort of looks rather short.
Third, I think the second turret should be a bit higher.

This is definitely an awesome start.

EDIT: While surfing the web for pics, I came across this:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/battlecarrier.png)

I think this might be awesome. Even if I would probably think long and hard about keeping the #3 and #4 turrets......
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Vardar on November 26, 2010, 02:14:31 pm
hmm nice picture.. i could really use that.

and i've done some quick changes to the model and used a 3d rendering program, take a look

working on a command hub, ill finish it up later

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5264/cruiser.jpg)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on November 26, 2010, 02:18:45 pm
Actually, that does look quite good. I'd say you should start on the superstructure soon.

Also, you might want to consider adding stabilizers in the front and rear, as well as start thinking about the engines. My original concept was to use giant ducted fans in engine pods there (Reasoning being that they could be used underwater in a pinch, and that the ducting would shield the props from at least some battle damage).
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: StarSlayer on November 26, 2010, 02:26:37 pm
It's actually a conversion of two of their BBs, Ise and Hyuga if I'm not mistaken, after the they had the cream of their carrier crop sunk at Midway.  They were never actually used as such before they where destroyed themselves though. 

The Kingdom of Gryphon in my 'verse' actually uses a similar idea for their carriers, both the Undine class light cruisers and the Warspite class carrier dreadnoughts both use the rear flight deck setup.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on November 26, 2010, 02:29:29 pm
The triangles! Do not model in them! You can already see the horrid situation it causes for lighting on the model!

Instead, make use of proper edge loops and model in quads where necessary. If you're splitting a quad into two triangles to make sure the model is properly smoothed, what that should be telling you instead is that you should make use of another edge loop to smooth out the surface. I'm not trying to be overly critical, instead I'd just like to see you forming better quality models.

Also, if I might make a design critique, I'd look into working on those gun barrels. They do look a bit like toothpicks.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: General Battuta on November 26, 2010, 02:58:45 pm
The triangles! Do not model in them! You can already see the horrid situation it causes for lighting on the model!

Instead, make use of proper edge loops and model in quads where necessary. If you're splitting a quad into two triangles to make sure the model is properly smoothed, what that should be telling you instead is that you should make use of another edge loop to smooth out the surface. I'm not trying to be overly critical, instead I'd just like to see you forming better quality models.

This may be wildly stupid of me, but given that the engine automatically triangulates everything, is there any point to working with anything but triangles? Or is there a benefit to using quads and such at the pre-conversion stage?
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Angelus on November 26, 2010, 03:14:42 pm
The triangles! Do not model in them! You can already see the horrid situation it causes for lighting on the model!

Instead, make use of proper edge loops and model in quads where necessary. If you're splitting a quad into two triangles to make sure the model is properly smoothed, what that should be telling you instead is that you should make use of another edge loop to smooth out the surface. I'm not trying to be overly critical, instead I'd just like to see you forming better quality models.

This may be wildly stupid of me, but given that the engine automatically triangulates everything, is there any point to working with anything but triangles? Or is there a benefit to using quads and such at the pre-conversion stage?

apart from the stuff Thaeris mentioned, it's far easier to edit the mesh, when working with quads. There are situations where you need to extrude a part from the hull, and it requires more work when the mesh is already trinagulated.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Hades on November 26, 2010, 03:48:54 pm
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj319/KaelisAsur/inspiration/sketch/Pirate_Cruiser_by_Amarynceu.jpg)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on November 26, 2010, 03:55:05 pm
I make an issue of this as I used to model in a similar fashion to Vardar. After working with and learning from people like Quanto who are professionally trained in modeling, I can tell you why it's important to model in quads. I will also understand why you might opt for triangles in certain instances as well, though.

First, as mentioned, lighting issues. If I was fluent with a full-function modeling program like Blender, putting a fix on the "triangle mess" which is clearly visible in those renders might be less of an issue, but it would still be one more thing I'd need to do. A modeling program automatically triangulates any surface created, and thus automatically adjusts the lighting applied to that surface. Hand-triangulating, which I used to do a lot of, might correct some shape issues (like "dented-in" surfaces which shouldn't be dented in). If you're on a polygon budget, or need to ensure a particular part of the model is not left to chance when it comes to a program's automatic triangulation, that might be something to consider. However, that is probably NOT the case with regards to this model. That said, let me prove my point: anywhere a section has been triangulated, you see a triangle, not a smooth surface. Modeling in quads would most likely clear up this lighting problem.

Next, there's modeling in general. It's a heck of a lot easier to split a square than a triangle. Given that it's not 1996 anymore, polycount isn't too much of an issue, though that doesn't mean you need to be irresponsible with it, either. If there's an area where more curvature is needed, it probably means you need to insert another edge loop. Furthermore, using proper edge loops will allow you to get those nice, flowing shapes which are essential to aerodynamic or hydrodynamic vessels. If you don't know what I'm talking about, here's a wireframe and filled view of a turret modeled in quads - it will be pretty hard to find any triangles in this model.

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pkjO7jzwXzowcXRLj0YSpMqEqWPayKROLhefl3i_01lulS5xnwR6yyQUsDvNGZDfU0w0IT95Z-8fL39a0IMcofw/Light%20Turret%20Wireframe.png?psid=1)

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p-gpq3VDo744cYBiQUKRKcwi866xLGFtT2ZKgEdgzbPyedwLVBQYdwvRad4XkjFxBymT00iAHwNQTT-QXv9ZB6Q/Light%20Turret%20Final.png?psid=1)

Just to clarify terminology, an "edge loop" is a linked string of quads which runs over the expanse of a given model. In some parts of a model, it might indeed be hard to pull that off - making sure it can be pulled it off also should encourage a modeler to tactfully place and position every quad and vertex. Doing that in turn should help to ensure a properly and efficiently made model. Vardar, if I was to go back and fix a ship model I was working on for the longest time, the UXV, with a hull modeled in quads and proper edge loops, I can guarantee you that it would look much cleaner and much more realistic. If at all possible, leave triangulation as an automatic issue for PCS2 to fix.

Next, there's UV mapping. If you model in triangles, those edges are a new evil to deal with. That split edge will quite likely cause distortion and unnecessary hair pulling on your end getting that UV into shape. Modeling in quads, you're far less likely to suffer that fate.

Lastly, and this is outside the scope of FS2, modeling in quads is necessary for proper subdivision modeling. Triangles don't split all that easily, but quads do. Thus, when sbdividing a model, you want the outcome to be smooth and fluid. The best way to ensure that is to model in quads.

I hope this helps.  ;)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: FreeBass on November 27, 2010, 11:19:05 pm
Dunno 'bout anyone else, but I for one found this quite informative. Thank ya much  :yes:


One thing, though; "If I was fluent with a full-function modeling program like Blender...."

So what prog do ya use?
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on November 27, 2010, 11:36:57 pm
I use a program called AC3D, which is a dedicated modeling and UV mapping program. Thus, I can't do advanced lighting features as in 3DS Max or animations. I mention Blender as it is capable of doing many of the same things Max can do - also, it's free.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on November 29, 2010, 06:45:57 am
From deviantART :D

(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/185/5/2/chasing_airplane_by_Togman_Studio.jpg)

(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs42/f/2009/130/a/7/110509___airplane_by_600v.jpg)

(http://th02.deviantart.net/fs44/PRE/f/2009/081/7/7/Airplane_Concept_by_heckthor.jpg)

(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs49/i/2009/217/1/c/Rat_Bird_by_ChristianPearce.jpg)

(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs19/f/2007/241/e/5/Wyrdplane_by_McGibs.jpg)

Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Vardar on November 29, 2010, 10:05:33 am
*snip*

hmm ok.. so you mean i shouldnt use triangles while moddeling? cause then i really need to change the normal way i model, but that's not that big of a problem.. but would you suggest moving away from sketchup as a modeling tool? cause what i like about that is that its quite easy to use.


~vardar
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Quanto on November 29, 2010, 12:59:35 pm
You really do need to stop using sketchup.
A good program that is a smooth transition from Sketchup is Silo. Its not free, but its the easiest professional modeler out there.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on November 29, 2010, 01:13:22 pm
I personally dislike SketchUp... quite a bit. However, you are free to make use of the program which suites you best. For the record, I've seen several lovely SketchUp models in the past which look as good as anything else produced in a different program. Brother Byron's models are a great example of this.

And, I know what you feel when I read your post. Again, I used to model much in a similar fashion as you. Here's an example of the UXV I was speaking of - the first two images are of the ship with AC3D's two different shader types applied to it, smooth and flat shading:

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p8SXPk2Peal5EMXmpjWVE0lwwyopjSUoApYy4ydPvscPp52OUp1CM3rzThmmr9cM7Csdh50SrEccVy_1J0aZybg/UXV%20-%20No%20Texture.png?psid=1)

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pfCt3BE3M-1WACIe493a6vTDQC0Vk5gxV5tX4F0WwMzsyBDfgWbX68Gw-NdyPDjyyFjDP5XqMQcICvIOXEaZHMQ/UXV%20-%20No%20Texture%202.png?psid=1)

However, those shaders don't cross over very well unless they're applied with the proper software. Here's the ship when it's either shaded completely flat or completely smooth:

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p9UW_yRbVVuiKWPdAa841XnqER8M2n1pdrYfr6x73G9o5GhCv4mFkAGXHQk0jSZeTjOgr-u4QHcKzJ3CvHG9e-Q/UXV%20-%20No%20Texture%203.png?psid=1)

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pCbV2kdfSGtM16RJnYUZzp98tbA13L_LxqlQImVgRAVpG9gIpwlKHukhI0YMMAYhpdlAojLI-Y1h2M-wUwDIKaQ/UXV%20-%20No%20Texture%204.png?psid=1)

So, is this a bad model? Not really. There's no sloppy geometry, there's no ugly boolean messes lying around that someone didn't bother to clean up, etc. But, the factors which I illustrated in my previous post do apply here. Lighting issues. UV mapping. Subdivsions, if I was nuts enough to ramp up the polycount enough to use it on a mechanical model (not to mention other tricks I'd need to pull to get that to work). So, in many regards, though the model works, the approach is poor and perhaps a bit out-dated. As you can see, he lighting can be fixed manually to an extent, but in general the advice of the prior post is still of great utility.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: swashmebuckle on December 01, 2010, 04:23:31 pm
Random thought: how about for the badge logo, a Jolly Roger with crossed browning machine guns? :arrr:
Quote
Arsenal

Since the early twenties, the key strategic assets of Europe's nation states have been their secured industrial districts, hubs of fabrication and trade found just outside major cities.  Kept internally safe from the threats of espionage and sabotage by rigorous (some would say inhumane) security measures, the facilities within the protected zones are where the bulk of critical research and manufacturing occur, and a loss of important personnel or a lengthy halt in production can result in vital contracts going to rival countries, potentially placing the entire nation at a long-term disadvantage.  In the late twenties, the external defenses of these areas consisted of multilayered barrage balloon "walls" to guard against low-altitude attack (sometimes with explosives, parachute link systems, or machine gun mounts) and a combination of heavy anti-aircraft emplacements and interceptor squadrons to bring down the emergent high-altitude bomber treat. 

These measures proved effective in the low-intensity air wars that frequently broke out between squabbling countries at the time, but the introduction of Flugstein would turn the conventional thinking on its head.  Though early Flugstein ships were not capable of remaining aloft to dominate an airspace for days or weeks at a time as are modern designs, the potential still existed for a naval force to drive into the heart of its enemy's territory and rain down fire on their infrastructure with impunity.  For this reason, modern battleships reign as the undisputed heavyweights of the skies, but they are only one component of a set of counterbalancing military technologies, the diversification of which has gone far beyond what even the most forward-thinking analysts could have predicted.  For a time, it seemed as though the only effective counter to a heavier-than-air ship was another (preferably larger) ship, but a number of high and low tech defense mechanisms were soon pioneered that made foreign airspace dangerous even for the most powerful vessels.

The direct track favored by long-neglected ground forces was the deployment of heavy artillery in an anti-ship role.  While larger weapons and improved fuzes have been continually developed, these defenses suffer from several fundamental problems.  First and foremost, they are required to hit highly mobile and extremely distant targets--with new Flugstein ships traveling faster and at higher altitudes every year, artillery is hard pressed to keep pace.  Secondly, it is difficult to fire without revealing a battery's position to its lethally armed target.  This problem is usually addressed through the adoption of smoke decoys--in France's controversial Maginot line, numerous blasts are produced almost simultaneously by means of an electronic signal activated with each firing.  Finally, the armor that modern Flugstein vessels possess is many times thicker than that of conventional aircraft.  Sensitive external components such as propellers and communications equipment can be destroyed, and the concussion of a nearby airburst is always dangerous to the crew, but the actual penetrative damage required to bring a ship down can only occur with an extremely lucky direct hit.

The most widely adopted and effective anti-ship technology has proven to be the fielding of large fleets of dive bombers.  These craft, while fast and nimble enough to evade anti-aircraft fire, can carry powerful torpedoes and deliver them with a high degree of precision, the steep angle of attack negating the target's ability to quickly evade on the vertical axis.  Because a Flugstein grid must be located in the upper half of a ship in order to keep it right-side-up, a single well-placed torpedo can knock out a vessel's most critical component, and the sheer kinetic power of the dive means that simply adding additional armor to a ship's topside will likely never become cost effective.  Because of these developments, most battleship designs sacrifice the greater efficiency of single-grid systems for a safer distributed approach.

Perhaps the most exotic solution (and one that did not emerge until larger supplies of Flugstein became available in the late thirties) are air mines.  These deadly contraptions are essentially a bomb, a battery, and a Flugstein cell wrapped in a thick sphere of armor.  Set up with an initial push by the minelaying team, the field's altitude is controlled by a powerful ground-based radio transmitter, with each mine being calibrated to float in a slightly different height range.  In order to prevent the mines from destroying each other, the bombs are controlled by a set of electromagnetic trigger mechanisms that will only detonate when multiple points come into contact with a ship's hull.  Unless deflected or destroyed by massed flak or machine gun fire, these small menaces can bring down ships of any size.  Furthermore, for the amount of Flugstein required to achieve acceptable performance in a destroyer, hundreds of mines can be produced, potentially bringing down many ships for a tiny fraction of their cost.  These fields can be transported and operated by small crews working from an inexpensive minelayer airship, and the mines themselves are small and easily recoverable, making minelaying units highly economical (though also highly dangerous) branches of military service.

Leverage

With the notion that the Flugstein ships were the final word in air combat dispelled, countries sought ways to regain traction in their power projection schemes.  The first logical element to emerge was the long range escort fighter.  Although these high-endurance planes are evenly matched or surpassed by dedicated short-range air-superiority fighters and interceptors, they are more than capable of handling cumbersome dive bombers or assisting in mine-sweeping efforts, clearing the way for the heavy vessels to do their jobs.  The majority of these types are ground based, but convoy protection duties and the deployment of battlegroups far from home has led to drop hangars being installed on most larger Flugstein ships.  In practice, this has proved to be somewhat problematic, as recovery without a landing strip is impossible for fighters not specially designed to be used as parasite planes.  Because such models have to make significant compromises to be successful in a trapeze recovery, their specifications are often not up to military standards.  To address this need for in-flight recovery, dedicated Flugstein carriers became critical components of every fleet by the mid thirties, with the largest of these capable of deploying entire wings of fighters and dive bombers.  Many strategists believe that the carrier will eventually replace the battleship as the dominant class of warship, but a lack of long-range bombardment capability and the fragility of the flight deck and Flugstein grid have so far limited their potential uses.  Supermassive designs combining carrier decks with heavy guns have been proposed, and recent advances in power plants and materials science have made it theoretically possible to produce a truly formidable mobile base, but no vessels of this type have yet appeared.

A secondary effect of long-range fighter cover becoming available was the resuscitation of high altitude bombing as a viable option.  Though vulnerable to fighters and anti-aircraft fire, fixed-wing bombers can move much faster than fleet vessels and are the only viable option for quickly hitting enemy infrastructure.  Because massed fire makes the airspace directly above most hardened targets unnavigable even for the most heavily armored Flugstein ships, these bombers are the only means of delivering bunker-busting weaponry in cases where a battleship cannot be risked.  To repel such bomber attacks, lighter and far more agile Flugstein vessels have been introduced.  The armor on these corvettes allows them to shrug off the attacks of escort fighters while delivering a devastatingly precise close-range flak barrage to bomber formations.  The natural reaction for a wing when intercepted by such a ship is to scatter, making the individual bombers far more difficult for their escorts to defend from enemy fighters.  As this typically results in horrific casualties and the failure of the mission, bomber crews are rigorously trained to instead open their formation and dive while weathering the storm until their adversary can be outdistanced.  Though any ship fast enough to engage in a running battle with fixed-wing aircraft will make a hard target for dive-bombers, these lightest Flugstein ships are no match for the guns of heavier classes and can easily be obliterated by the coordinated efforts of frigate or destroyer packs if cornered far from support.

With so many types of ships and squadrons in play, improving communications and reconnaissance is a critical military priority.  Easily-intercepted radio transmissions are by far the most effective way to organize units in the field, so elaborate systems for encoding and decoding transmissions have been developed, and code-breaking is now a very well funded area of research.  Perhaps an even more important application of radio technology is in national propaganda, where government control of the airwaves keeps morale high with reports of heroic victories over the foreign menace.  Some believe that these one-sided news services have actually contributed to the disillusionment of those living in border regions, where contradictory reports of events can often be picked up from across the border.  Radio communications are also critical in transmitting the data collected by the various national radar networks which most countries independently developed during the thirties.  With thousands of airships over every nation at any given time, the tracking of foreign military vessels is a daunting task even for the most well-equipped groups.  The difficulty of this endeavor is further compounded by the presence of entire decoy battlegroups whose sole purpose is to confound enemy intelligence services, and the importance of keeping tabs on all enemy vessels has been illustrated by a number of devastatingly successful covert operations.  Most famously, the Viennese industrial safe zone was heavily bombarded as a result of the 1938 Salzburg plot, an incident in which the Ottoman destroyer Samsun was smuggled halfway around Europe within the shell of a reconditioned freighter.

Unique events such as these notwithstanding, the lack of firm information on enemy strength and the economic strain of fielding large fleets of Flugstein ships in peacetime had resulted in a pronounced defensive focus in military strategies by the end of the thirties.  Piracy and war via proxy were as popular as ever, but it made no sense for countries to risk their most valuable assets in an attack if there was no guarantee that another neighbor would not then step in to take advantage of the situation.  While this suited corporate interests, the public was slow to forget any offense committed by foreign nations, and the heady atmosphere inspired by state propaganda and two decades of steadily accumulating air power led majorities in most countries to believe that another war would quickly and permanently settle their old grievances.  Fittingly, the trigger for war arrived in the form of another German aerospace development.

The Mannheim Rocket


Wernher von Braun was born to an aristocratic family that played a prominent role in the Weimar government.  With the collapse of that regime in 1924, the von Brauns found themselves unwelcome in a Berlin now dominated by their political enemies.  As their original homeland was now a part of Poland, the family elected to join the burgeoning expatriate community in Zurich, where Wernher grew up surrounded by wealth and the wonder of flight.  When the Kaiser began to mobilize his private army in 1930, he opened an academy in Zurich "for the advancement of aeronautical technologies" which was, in point of fact, little more than a new military research facility funded by sources throughout Europe.  Von Braun enrolled in the institute's first class and, by the end of the decade, had become recognized as the preeminent rocket scientist of his time.  While his personal passion was the development of spacefaring technologies, von Braun's designs for long-range suborbital rockets were faster than conventional aircraft and could strike at enemy infrastructure directly, with minimal risk.  Given where the money for the development came from, it was inevitable that these technologies would end up in the hands of Germany's enemies. 

The first (and to date, only) major deployment of these weapons was the French attack on German heavy industry which followed a protracted series of border skirmishes in August of 1939.  While these early weapons proved ineffective in penetrating the heavily reenforced bunkers of the major manufacturing sites, a miscalculated trajectory resulted in damage to a football stadium in Mannheim.  Fortunately, the facility was empty at the time, but the appearance of this indiscriminate and ignoble weapon truly alarmed Europe.  When the rockets' origins were revealed, the German government seized on the public's shock and horror as an opportunity to launch their long-hoped-for war on the Kaiser's private Imperial army.  On September 2nd, the Reichstag declared that the Wilhelm and all who supported him were traitors to be shot down on sight, and their opening move was an assassination attempt which involved the battleship Bismarck leveling his family estate in the Netherlands.  Wilhelm was actually ballooning in Italy at the time, having developed effective means of decoying German intelligence throughout the thirties.  Because the Kaiserliche Marine lacked even primitive Flugstein ships in the early days of the conflict, Germany's initial strategy involved bribing neighboring nations into helping them bottle up the Imperialist forces over Switzerland until the royal family could be killed by their agents.  Unfortunately for them, the Loyalist Reichsmarine's efforts were hamstrung by the immediate (and clearly not spontaneous) defection of Generaloberst Manfred von Richthofen along with a significant proportion of the fighter corps.

Through the end of 1939, the Reichsmarine was held at bay by massed fighter and divebomber attacks, but due to the ideological nature of the conflict, the Imperialists gained little from these victories.  Wilhelm's objective was to spark a popular uprising, and while the conflict made him more popular than ever around Europe, the Mannheim Rocket incident and the aging of his support base at home meant that his hopes of returning to power were simply unrealistic.  Berlin's much more achievable aim was to finally eliminate the Kasier's challenge to their legitimacy, and their patience with Switzerland soon ran thin.  Seeing that their position was compromised by hosting an army that had no profit motive, the Swiss brokered a deal between Wilhelm and Emperor Franz Ferdinand whereby the Imperialist fleet could be moved to Austria-Hungary in exchange for support from the Kaiser's backers.  The story of how the old friends had reconciled after almost a quarter century played well in the European press, and Imperialist forces now receive backing from political factions around the world who are eager to see Germany drained by a prolonged war.

The present conflict retains the possibility for massive escalation, so most of the powers have adopted a wait-and-see attitude and are trying to avoid coming down on either side.  Every nation is at the negotiating table with the Loyalist government, but most also provide some assistance to Austria-Hungary, as a resolution of the German Civil War in either direction is potentially disastrous for Europe.  The Kaiser's defeat would leave Berlin in a dominant position that would benefit her allies in the short term, but inevitably lead to their becoming satellite nations of the German powerhouse.  Because of their massive investments over the past twenty years, the United States is assumed to be firmly behind the sitting German government, so it is uncertain that even a coalition of all the remaining powers could overcome a reunified Germany.  The alternative outcome is possibly even worse; with the resurgence of the old alliances exposing deep ideological fault lines throughout the industrial world, an Imperial victory could release a wave of anti-corporate sentiment, undermining each individual government's power base and leaving them prey to communism, fascism, and other undesirable regional and global political forces.  Through the summer of 1940, a dynamic balance was maintained through careful behind-the-scenes negotiations at the League of Nations, but the world would soon be taken to the brink by the appearance of an unlikely Imperial ally from the east.
Only a couple more entries to go, then someone just has to make the game part woohoo!
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on December 13, 2010, 04:35:51 am
Has anyone considered how to simulate gravity and air resistance in FSO, for this mod?

I'd be very interested in any solutions you might have come up with.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: starlord on December 13, 2010, 04:54:45 am
gravity would be swell for atmospheric missions: Imagine capital airships falling to their death as they explode...
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on December 13, 2010, 05:01:04 am
I agree.

I'm working on a project that's similar enough to the basic idea for this mod (it has airships), that there is probably a lot of stuff I want that this one needs or would use as well. It is, however, not steampunk and the aircraft are designed to at least have a chance of being feasible, pulling from my knowledge of aerodynamics design. I'm doing it as a Freespace mod to make a free demo while my coder gets herself up to snuff on XNA engine programming.

(http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/331/3/b/li__l_punk_by_invertedvantage-d33qudi.jpg)

(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/333/2/4/li__lpunk_cockpit___for_now_by_invertedvantage-d33utoa.jpg)

I'd be interested in anything related to getting gravity to work easily. If someone could show me how to install and use scripts, I saw one on another page.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=72106.0

If someone could tell me how I should go about using this, I'd greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: I believe I've gotten it working. Do I just place it in my data/tables directory as "Scripts.tbl" or something?
Also, what would be great is a "minimum speed" variable in the ships.tbl. Does that exist?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Titan on December 13, 2010, 09:05:08 am
Wouldn't it be better to use another game?  :confused:
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: General Battuta on December 13, 2010, 09:09:04 am
He said:

Quote
I'm doing it as a Freespace mod to make a free demo while my coder gets herself up to snuff on XNA engine programming.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Titan on December 13, 2010, 09:13:11 am
durr
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: crizza on December 14, 2010, 06:05:48 am
Hm...Thaeris carrier looks to modern in IMHO.
Look at carriers in WW2 and you'll know what I mean, even modern carriers have not such a fancy island.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on December 14, 2010, 10:09:06 am
Mr. Crizza,

That was an example for use in modeling techniques, and that ship is one which is speculated to enter service around 2020. It was never proposed for use in this mod.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on December 22, 2010, 09:31:09 pm
I've got a story, gameplay ideas, and some concept art and models for a mod like this. Would anyone be interested in working with me? I specifically need modelers and converters at the moment. I'd like one or two more people if at all possible.

Some newer examples;

(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/355/c/2/hideaway_by_invertedvantage-d35e7az.jpg)

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lduaw23KLf1qfeeeto1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1293161788&Signature=yfdlvrgKCzASvBAY7L1zGWqxV2s%3D)

EDIT: More art. Still looking for volunteers!

(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/356/f/5/best_to_bug_out_by_invertedvantage-d35gygf.png)


You can get the full (4096 x 2048) view here;
http://invertedvantage.deviantart.com/art/Best-to-Bug-Out-190587759
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Titan on December 23, 2010, 08:27:21 am
That's... freaking awesome....  :eek2:
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Droid803 on December 23, 2010, 11:31:02 am
Flying islands wheeee!
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: starlord on December 24, 2010, 02:30:16 am
Oh look! Stormhawks! :p
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on December 24, 2010, 09:27:20 am
Never seen that show. Looks cool though.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: -Sara- on December 24, 2010, 10:39:46 am
Floating islands, awesome. Almost feels a bit like the arcade game Tyrian with those. :D Going to look forward to how this progresses.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on December 28, 2010, 05:43:14 pm
Bump with a WIP. The old airplane model I had (the one in the render above) would be too much of a pain to fix up for FS2, so I'm starting from scratch with a new one.

(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/362/5/d/angry_midget_wip_by_invertedvantage-d35vw9u.jpg)

More to come.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Scooby_Doo on December 28, 2010, 06:25:58 pm
I know its not a real plane but it looks cool

LOL that's where I got my Liberator from
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on December 28, 2010, 06:35:52 pm
I'm going to shamelessly promote this here, as someone here might have a serious use for this software:

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=73575.0
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on December 28, 2010, 09:59:25 pm
Skipping cockpits for now...I'm trying to get as much done as quickly as possible, so fancy features like cockpits will have to sit out until round 2.

(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/362/8/7/angry_midget_wip_almost_done_by_invertedvantage-d35wi00.jpg)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 29, 2010, 04:00:38 am
I like where this is going. I'm gonna have to dig up my copy for Cromson Skies now.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on December 29, 2010, 04:31:02 am
Hmm, shiny :yes: Though the gun doesn't really fit in with the rest of that sleek body, a streamline cap (possibly a transparent one?) would do good there.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on December 29, 2010, 04:40:55 am
The idea is that the gun is bolted on - there's a story reason for it. :)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on December 29, 2010, 05:38:28 am
That looks really nice. The gun looks like it could be replaced easily, like in a modular weapons system.

This project has given me some incentive to try to attempt modeling again, so I've been working on this for the past few weeks.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/Side.jpg)
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/Plan.jpg)
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/Front.jpg)
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/Persp_11oclock.jpg)

It’s mostly based on this design (http://www.warbirds.jp/kakuki/kyosaku/3kia/bv140.htm), which the artist calls the Bv140. The closest historical thing that I can find to it going by the name is the Blohm and Voss Ha 140, which was a twin-engined seaplane. But I suppose it can be given a different name. It has a faint bulkiness that reminds me of the Grumman Avenger, so I’m thinking that a short to medium range dive or torpedo bomber role would be appropriate (this is just my idea though – I'm open to alternative uses for it). It doesn't look very interesting but I wanted to start with something conventional.

If I decide to make it into a dive/torpedo bomber, then I'd like to shorten the hump on the top of the fuselage, add a gunner's position and maybe merge and flip the gun blisters (I think the correct term is ‘barbettes’) 180 degrees so that they point backwards. I’m envisioning a remote-control system for these guns, something akin to that used on the Me-210 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me-210). However I don’t know if the FSO engine is capable of supporting this kind of turret setup so I might have to drop that idea. The guns also look like they could be modular and replaced with alternative ones.

I've been experimenting with a couple of techniques for making convincing-looking propeller blades, as I'm not satisfied with them as they are now. I think there might be problems with the  trailing edges of the wings and stabilizer too that I'll need to fix. I'd also like to add cylinder detail to the engine, cowl flaps, moving control surfaces, flaps, dive brakes and undercarriage but I'm not sure that I'll get that far.

Any opinions or advice would be appreciated.

Before I forget, I recently came across the tabletop game 'Aeronef' (http://www.blease.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/WG.aeronef.html), which features aero fleets.
http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/search/label/Aeronef (http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/search/label/Aeronef)
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/14324/aeronef (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/14324/aeronef)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on December 29, 2010, 05:54:42 am
That looks like a very cool design, and I'd love to have it in this.

Regarding propeller blades, I would suggest that, for the moment, the models should be made with propeller blades modelled out (like you have it right now). I'll have to figure out a solution anyway (Probably involving some clever tricks with materials etc, once I finish that).

BTW, here's the current to-do list of features I plan on implementing for this.

1. Simplified atmospheric flight model (The biggie)
2. Compass/Altimeter/Artificial Horizon HUD gauges (Can be prototyped in scripting, but I kinda want these in the engine)
3. More options for rotating subsystems (Rotors that change speed relative to throttle setting, Flaps that rotate based on control input, that sort of stuff)
4. "Atmospheric mission" mission flag, which can be used to set various parameters, like starting altitude, max flight ceiling, min altitude, stall speed
5. Fog settings to adjust visible range etc
6. Clouds

Obviously, there's no ETA at all for any of this.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Angelus on December 29, 2010, 11:32:33 am
That looks like a very cool design, and I'd love to have it in this.

Regarding propeller blades, I would suggest that, for the moment, the models should be made with propeller blades modelled out (like you have it right now). I'll have to figure out a solution anyway (Probably involving some clever tricks with materials etc, once I finish that).

BTW, here's the current to-do list of features I plan on implementing for this.

1. Simplified atmospheric flight model (The biggie)
2. Compass/Altimeter/Artificial Horizon HUD gauges (Can be prototyped in scripting, but I kinda want these in the engine)
3. More options for rotating subsystems (Rotors that change speed relative to throttle setting, Flaps that rotate based on control input, that sort of stuff)
4. "Atmospheric mission" mission flag, which can be used to set various parameters, like starting altitude, max flight ceiling, min altitude, stall speed
5. Fog settings to adjust visible range etc
6. Clouds

Obviously, there's no ETA at all for any of this.

YES!  :yes:
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on December 29, 2010, 11:43:59 am
Hey, The_E, if I could add one more feature request; could we get debris chunks to spew particles? I'm specifically thinking smoke.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on December 29, 2010, 11:57:36 am
The burning debris script used in the latest mediavps can be used for that, one just has to provide a fitting "smoke" effect.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Mobius on December 29, 2010, 12:10:16 pm
Guys, just a suggestion. There are many modellers on deviantART who worked on similar stuff and may give you their meshes, if necessary.

Here's what I found after a quick search. That's probably just the tip of the iceberg:

http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/150/f/2010/195/6/9/WIP_Sky_Crawlers_Aircraft_by_shelbs2.jpg
http://th09.deviantart.net/fs16/150/f/2007/178/4/4/P_23_Ragona_aircraft_modelshee_by_charfade.jpg
http://th00.deviantart.net/fs70/150/i/2010/130/9/f/aircraft_by_PeeDee4.jpg
http://th00.deviantart.net/fs41/150/i/2009/036/7/b/Concept_Corprate_aircraft_by_shelbs2.jpg
http://th04.deviantart.net/fs31/150/f/2008/226/c/f/Crimson_Skies___Cargo_Zeppelin_by_foxmalcolm.jpg
http://th09.deviantart.net/fs9/150/i/2006/070/7/5/Crimson_by_ttvortex.jpg
http://th04.deviantart.net/fs9/150/i/2006/070/8/2/Crimson_II_by_ttvortex.jpg
http://th09.deviantart.net/fs46/150/f/2009/201/e/8/crimson_skys_by_whitedragon1204.jpg
http://th06.deviantart.net/fs70/150/f/2010/255/1/b/racing_float_plane_m2_2_by_shelbs2-d2ymisk.jpg
http://th04.deviantart.net/fs71/150/f/2010/252/5/3/racing_float_plane_model_2_by_shelbs2-d2yef3n.jpg
http://th08.deviantart.net/fs12/150/i/2006/316/5/9/Plane_Design_Model_by_Chanderzz.png
http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/150/f/2010/130/9/6/the_bird_plane_by_shelbs2.jpg
http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/150/f/2009/360/b/b/Turbine_racing_plane_by_Nestor_K_YA_T.jpg
http://th03.deviantart.net/fs48/150/i/2009/231/a/4/Concept_Sport_Plane_by_shelbs2.jpg

 :)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Angelus on December 29, 2010, 12:16:20 pm
Hm, most models i've found on the interwebs, aren't build for a gameengine. And even those which are, aren't build for FSO.
We can't use 20-80k poly/ tris fighters.
That means, that all planes would need some serious fixing, and UVs and stuff.

It's better to build them from scratch, imo.


Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Mobius on December 29, 2010, 12:22:05 pm
That is not a serious problem if you talk to the right person. dA modellers oftentimes reduce polycounts on request and can do other helpful things, too.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on December 29, 2010, 01:40:39 pm
That looks like a very cool design, and I'd love to have it in this.

OK, thanks. I'll try to continue work on it soon.

Looks like I'll have to reduce the polycount, particularly that of the propeller, the guns and their housings. I might decide to have two versions, one being a single-seat fighter (like it appears now) and the other being a bomber version with a turret.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Black Wolf on December 29, 2010, 01:53:29 pm
Will the engine even handle something rotating at those kinds of speeds? Props go pretty bloody fast, as I understand it.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on December 29, 2010, 02:03:45 pm
They do, but that is where other tricks come in. Like a pre-blurred texture on the rotor blades that creates the illusion of fast movement.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 01, 2011, 07:02:19 pm
Just an update on this...I've got a rough concept for one of the capital ships and the main floating island to be featured in the demo, but I'm lousy at modeling very large objects, does anyone want to have a go at it?
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on January 02, 2011, 06:44:39 am
I'm still a novice at this model making stuff, unfortunately. :< Angelus has made a couple of nice looking capital ships (as in flying battleships), though. Maybe he'd be interested.

I've noticed that Jadehawk is back. He's very good at texturing for IL-2 models (I think he actually works in the aviation industry too), so on that basis I think he'd be really keen to help out with your project and Free Skies.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Angelus on January 02, 2011, 07:42:42 am
Just an update on this...I've got a rough concept for one of the capital ships and the main floating island to be featured in the demo, but I'm lousy at modeling very large objects, does anyone want to have a go at it?

You can shoot it my way.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: swashmebuckle on January 06, 2011, 07:57:00 pm
Hey, sorry I kinda ran out of steam on this, but at least it's got a rough draft now.  The writing gets a little clunky here, but I'll make a pass over all the entries and try to even stuff out and make it move when I get some more free time.  Then someone else should probably edit it down if you wanna use it for something like intel entries, as it's pretty freaking long.  Could just be useful as sort of a background bible thing too.  Anyway, yay!  Free Skies!
Quote
Rising Sun

In 1931, the Japanese and Russian empires formed a secret pact to divide the Asian continent.  Just as Japan had once aided the Tzar against the Red Army following the World War, Russia was heavily involved with funding and equipping Chiang Kai-shek's Kuomintang against the communists in the ongoing Chinese Civil War.  This meant that Russian operatives were in an ideal position to gather strategic information on the Chinese forces, a situation that was tolerated by the Chinese nationalists because they knew that Russia lacked the manpower to occupy China while maintaining her strength at home and over Europe.  Japan, on the other hand, was eager to expand on its Korean foothold in the mainland, and was confident in its ability to hold down all of the East Asian territory not currently controlled by western colonial powers.  The essence of the joint plan was to bide time while Russian support gave the Nationalists a substantial advantage in the civil war, all the while withholding the skyfaring technologies that could provide a knockout blow.  By the time Japan was prepared to invade, both Chinese armies would be severely depleted, and the two technologically superior Imperial forces would make the conflict a quick one.

Meanwhile, the entire world was shocked when Japan completed its remarkable transformation into a major industrial power with the capture and reverse-engineering of a fully-functional Flugstein warship.  By 1935 Japan's fleet was a force to be reckoned with, and some analysts have surmised that Russia pressed for the invasion to begin mainly because they were afraid that they wouldn't get much of anything if they waited any longer.  The move proved to be a wise one when, immediately after routing the Kuomintang, Japan began airlifting in prefabricated military and industrial emplacements to the sites of China's vast deposits of critical natural resources.  While Russia gained an enormous quantity of land in Manchuria, Mongolia, and down through the Tibetan Plateau, they were cut off from the prized North China Plain at the Great Wall by the lightning-quick Japanese advance--the territorial divisions agreed upon four years earlier were now meaningless, as neither force could afford to fight the other, so the conquest effectively became a race for territory, a race that Japan won hands down.

To the attacking powers it was a foregone conclusion the the Chinese would be completely smashed by the double-assault, but both the Nationalist and Communist armies showed tremendous resilience, regrouping and temporarily halting their conflict (at least in some areas) to better face the foreign threat.  Assistance for China (almost entirely for the Nationalist faction) eventually began to trickle in from sources opposing Russian or Japanese interests elsewhere in the world, with the United Kingdom being particularly keen to protect her Asian possessions.  After sweeping through what had been French Indochina and Siam, the Japanese Navy turned to preying on shipping out of Hong Kong to the extent that the city was basically under siege, and by 1937 nothing could get in or out except under the escort of heavy warships.  A war to destroy Japan's fleet seemed like the only viable solution, but even with Australian and Canadian forces shouldering much of the burden, Britain simply lacked the resources to carry out a full-scale Asian campaign while protecting the rest of the Empire.  The United States too was leery of becoming involved in a major action against one of its primary Pacific trade partners, but it did allow for a volunteer fighter unit (the now-famous Flying Tigers) to be assembled and assigned to the ROC Air Force flying out of Burma as privateers.

Japan's military and industrial stylings were by this point thoroughly European, but her goal of establishing a "Greater East Asia Co-Prosparity Sphere" free of western influence found them few allies in the increasingly global economy.  Barring foreign businesses from setting up shop within Japanese territory did not, however, halt the new flow of materials coming from their freshly minted industrial districts, and cheap goods and arms from the far east could soon be found in the hands of independent factions throughout the world, particularly in the likewise rapidly modernizing Persian state.  When the German Civil War began in 1939, a healthy portion of the craft flown by the Kaiser's army were of Japanese construction, but Japan was willing to go one step further and offer Wilhelm something his other allies were not: Flugstein ships.  The first delivery of such a vessel in September of 1940 came as a shock even to the Kaiser's handlers, and efforts by his enemies to halt further additions to the Kaiserliche Marine eventually led to major confrontations over the Persian Gulf which cemented an alliance between Japan and the German Imperial Remnant.  This arrangement is considered by many in the west to be the most critical threat to peace they have faced in their lifetimes--through Wilhelm, Japan has gained the leverage it needs to plunge all of Europe into the morass of the Civil War if need be, and thanks to recent technological developments, such a turn of events could mean disaster for the entire world.

A Nuclear Era

Since the publication of Einstein's papers on relativity, scientists have worked tirelessly to harness the power of the atom.  In the arms race that has been raging since the debut of Flugstein technology, however, little funding has been provided for the creation of weapons of mass destruction, as the full-scale escalation of international conflicts has been regarded as economically shortsighted.  Unfortunately, the ideologically based German Civil War has recently breathed new life into the prospect of total war, and given the number of known military research facilities around the globe, it seems inevitable that sooner or later one or more nation states will develop working nuclear weapons.  Already, nuclear reactors have been introduced in the most modern Flugstein warship designs, and while creating an atomic bomb is quite another matter, there have been whispered rumors of sailors having seen bright flashes over the horizon and tropical atolls turned to glass.  Weighted heavily by the inevitable judgement of history, famed physicists such as Enrico Fermi have been forced to flee their countries and live under assumed names in order to avoid being pressed into work, and those who have offered their services willingly such as the American J. Robert Oppenheimer are no less jealously guarded for it by their respective governments.

Strategically, it remains uncertain whether a valuable application for a nuclear weapon can be found.  When compared to conventional explosives, nuclear weapons are expected to be sensitive and massive to an extent that deploying them in an offensive role would require already having established complete dominance of the enemy's airspace.  The maneuverability of modern Flugstein ships means that a successful direct strike on an enemy fleet seems unlikely at best, though the weapon's potential to kill the entire crew of a battleship without causing irreparable harm to the ship itself has led to thoughts of creating suicide airships.  Clearly though, the obvious application for these bombs is something that modern warfare has gone to great lengths to avoid: the wholesale slaughter of the population of an enemy state.  Faced with the reality of these weapons, the world's political and military leaders have been backed into a corner--although no one wishes to be put in the position to have to use one, neither can they afford not to have them.  Although little has outwardly changed in the daily conduct of the business of international relations, the shadow of this technology has drawn a pervasive undercurrent of paranoia into the zeitgeist of modern Europe, muting reason and lending weight to more extreme voices in the political field.

Yet even with the fear of ultimate annihilation waiting in the wings, this is still a time of amazing possibilities.  Constant advancements in aerospace technologies and the resultant trade and manufacturing booms have opened up markets across the globe, and the powerful middle class this new economy is creating has already begun to shape the face of the industrialized nations.  What direction this group will take is anyone's guess, as difficult generational conflicts have emerged between parties unwilling to let go of the world's colonial past and others bent on realizing her corporate future.  This is a time where the old and new exist side-by-side: vast fleets of airship freighters point to a world brought together through commerce while matched sets of triplanes intended solely for settling points of honor testify to a culture and way of life that many still aspire towards.  The world's navies have been gathering their strength for over a decade, and in spite of deepening ties of economic interdependence, international animosity remains as strong as ever.  In this uncertain environment, the strategy of non-alignment that has kept Europe safe for the past twenty years seems less and less trustworthy as around the world a fatalistic sense of the inevitability of a second world war has taken hold, threatening the promise of freedom that calls out to all those who take to the skies.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Scourge of Ages on January 07, 2011, 10:50:05 pm
That is some truly impressive writing there, swash.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: swashmebuckle on January 09, 2011, 05:05:50 pm
Thanks man, it was a lot of fun to work on.  I'm excited to see what sort of scenario might come of it after all the technical hurdles are...hurdled :nod:
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 14, 2011, 01:57:23 pm
(http://th08.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2011/014/6/c/cruiser_wip_by_invertedvantage-d375z05.png)

Light cruiser/pocket carrier WIP. Carries two to four aircraft.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 14, 2011, 06:10:45 pm
What kind if propulsion does the carrier craft employ?
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 14, 2011, 06:28:50 pm
Electric engines, propeller propulsion (with the lack of extensive fossil fuels and extensive nanobot population on this planet, electric engines were developed first). They'll be nested in nacelles in the wings, I forgot to put them in -.-.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 17, 2011, 07:53:04 am
More fun;

(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf5dxgdG6U1qfeeeto1_500.jpg)

EDIT:


Here's the third time I've rebuilt this, so I'm getting closer but I'm missing something...I have difficulty adding small details to objects like these.

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs242.snc6/179090_485457801646_649141646_6375658_3254940_n.jpg)

EDIT2:

Still working, here's a detail shot and showing off the filleting job I did;

(http://twitlink.ws/invertedvantage)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on January 18, 2011, 03:23:52 am
Here's the third time I've rebuilt this, so I'm getting closer but I'm missing something...I have difficulty adding small details to objects like these.

Bah, aerodynamics don't usually like small details... look at a regular airliner, it's all flush. You still need to add the engines?
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 18, 2011, 01:04:39 pm
That is a good point...here's more WIP, the fillets were definitely a pain;

(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/018/b/f/airship_work_in_progress_by_invertedvantage-d37hlm7.png)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: ktistai228 on January 18, 2011, 01:06:24 pm
those blades look pretty funky.... not sure they should look this way :confused:
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 18, 2011, 01:13:00 pm
You're probably right. I need to remodel them anyway, they were just rough stand ins.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 19, 2011, 04:46:30 pm
Fixed the blades, did the canards.

Next up is control surfaces, smaller details, and UV/texturing. Basically all the boring stuff :p

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/UnknownTarget/57b1b2a6.jpg?t=1295477179)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on January 19, 2011, 09:20:49 pm
You know, that beastie would look really smashing with some low drag gun turrets (mult-barreled weapons, of course)...

...Heck, it would look very good without them breaking up its lines. What I really want to see are some torpedo tubes on the bow of the ship!

:D
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Titan on January 20, 2011, 09:26:25 am
IMO, it would look cooler/stronger if there was a second set of biwings at the front, with engines as well.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 20, 2011, 07:09:37 pm
I have a suggestion regarding wing and engine placement.  Move the engines out to the wingtips, where the inter-wing support struts are.  Further in that line however, to avoid the prop-washes interfering with each other, move the upper engine inboard by shortening the span of the upper wing and canting the support strut inwards.  This could be accompanied by giving slightly more pronounced sweeps to the wings, and aft-upward sweeping the strut, which appears to act as a partial vertical control surface.  Another advantage for the wingtip engine placement, is that it would result in less sound and vibration being transferred into the main fuselage.

That bulge on the bottom of the nose... is that supposed to be a down-looking radar of some kind?
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on January 20, 2011, 11:29:39 pm
Personally, I like the design as it stands. It it true that you might be dealing with some devilish interference with that given engine placement (namely as the engines are props), but moving the engines out to the wingtips would doom the ship to a horrible death if engines on the opposite wing were to be disabled.

Rather, if you're thinking at any point that changing the engine configuration would be a good idea, I'd suggest that you create a large necelle suspended between the two main wings with a forward mounted engine and and aft mounted engine on each nacelle. This would ideally provide benficial thrust benefits with a push-pull configuration, and you'd also get a healthy amount of propwash over the wings - it's sort of like having blown flaps without having blown flaps.  :D

By the way, if aerodynamics is of even just a slight concern, I could post some of your designs in a thread on X-Plane.org, where it might come to the attention of (or I could bring it to the attention of) actual, skilled engineers like Viper2000 (on the X-Plane forum, of course).
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 20, 2011, 11:56:00 pm
Trivial Psychic; prop wash was an issue in that I tried to avoid it as much as possible, but I gave myself a little bit of allowance in the "this isn't real" department. Originally the engines were right in front of each other. I'm really hesitant to redo the wings though, just because they took me forever. :) And yea, it is a radar dome. :)

Moving the engines out to the wingtips would increase structural loads dramatically, and any sort of maneuvering would create inordinate amounts of stress on the wings - you're putting a ton of weight at the very weakest point in the structure (the end).

You'll get a not-insignificant structural benefit from the combined tip (creating a box-frame without support in the middle), but I don't think it'd be enough to offset that weight.

Thaeris probably has the best solution, with an inter-wing push/pull pod. I tried a push/pull arrangement before by mounting it in the wing (basically what I have now except each of those nacelles had a propeller in the front too). I didn't like how it looked, but I might try it again. Right now I'm working a bit with the interior, to give me a better and more logical placement of stuff in the exterior.

As for aerodynamics, Thaeris, I am trying to keep it as realistic as possible (especially when it comes to the airships, I really want to avoid the "magical floating metal hulk with tiny gasbags" syndrome).

You're welcome to post it on the X-Plane forum (link me! :) ), but I'm giving myself a bit of a berth when it comes to realism. :) Debate on the designs is always useful because I'm sure I missed some stuff. :) I would be interested to see debate on this design, as I've never done wings like this before.

So yea, when the school year starts to die down again, I'm going to be going at some of the detailing - windows, any weaponry, hangar objects, etc.

I should post the design system I came up with a few weeks ago, it let's you get a reasonable approximation of the airplane just by sketching.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on January 21, 2011, 12:11:42 pm
AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaannnd done:

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=50074

:D
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Titan on January 21, 2011, 03:45:03 pm
what happened to the kick-ass stuff on the first page  :(
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 21, 2011, 04:49:44 pm
Thanks Thaeris. I agree with pretty much everything they're saying over there. :)

Titan; I dunno, that's not really my project. I'm doing something separate, there's just enough technical overlap that I've been posting in this thread. I was thinking that someone might get inspired enough and make the models for StarSlayer's stuff, and that would get rolled into the FreeSkies project. Otherwise it doesn't fit into the universe I want to do. :)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Trivial Psychic on January 21, 2011, 08:28:57 pm
Rather, if you're thinking at any point that changing the engine configuration would be a good idea, I'd suggest that you create a large nacelle suspended between the two main wings with a forward mounted engine and and aft mounted engine on each nacelle. This would ideally provide beneficial thrust benefits with a push-pull configuration, and you'd also get a healthy amount of prop-wash over the wings - it's sort of like having blown flaps without having blown flaps.  :D
While I am a personal fan of tandem engine configurations, I think that in this instance that the gap between the two wings is so great that the nacelle would need to be quite massive indeed, and thus a massive engine and prop assembly... assuming a true in-line tandem arrangement.  What I would suggest to span the distance, is a stacked tandem arrangement.  Have a tractor engine placed on top of the lower wing, then the pusher engine above and aft-shifted, slung just beneath the upper wing.  The pusher engine could have its frontal area taken up by a joint radiator shared by both engines... assuming you're using liquid-cooled engines.  This would allow the nacelle to span the distance between the upper and lower wings, providing the aforementioned structural strength.

One of the main reasons I was suggesting the wing-tip arrangement, was due to a bit of aerodynamic advantages I read about from the Vaught XF5U (http://www.answers.com/topic/vought-xf5u), AKA the "Flying Pancake".  Its wingtip rotors cancel out the wingtip vortices, and reduce drag considerably.  Now, I'm not sure how much of a rotation is required, but it might be possible to include small shaft-driven wingtip rotors, borrowing power from the main engines.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 22, 2011, 10:31:59 pm
Working on getting the mountains down, trying a stylized, cubical approach;

(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/022/4/8/floating_mountains_concept_2_by_invertedvantage-d37tqxn.png)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: z64555 on January 23, 2011, 02:00:02 pm
I like the left-half of it... the right half reminds me of a salt crystal.   :p
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on January 23, 2011, 03:35:15 pm
What makes those fly? Is it some intrinsic property of the rock it's made of, or is it by some other means?
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 23, 2011, 06:39:35 pm
It has something to do with the bits of machinery poking out of it. Other than that...
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: z64555 on January 24, 2011, 03:16:47 am
It has something to do with the bits of machinery poking out of it. Other than that...

Spoiler:
Probably involves honkin helicopter rotors on top of it.

 ;)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on January 24, 2011, 09:06:50 am
I see you popped up on the X-Plane forums, Unknown Target. I had no idea you were even a member...

:D
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on January 24, 2011, 02:37:01 pm
What makes those fly? Is it some intrinsic property of the rock it's made of, or is it by some other means?

Unobtainium :nervous:
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: z64555 on January 24, 2011, 05:21:32 pm
What makes those fly? Is it some intrinsic property of the rock it's made of, or is it by some other means?

Unobtainium :nervous:

What ever happened to upsidasium? :)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Unknown Target on January 26, 2011, 08:21:19 pm
Could I get anyone to volunteer to do a website for this? PM me.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Wildy on February 14, 2011, 05:51:31 am
Pm'ed
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: bobbtmann on February 14, 2011, 10:53:19 pm
Those rocks look like cubist work. Maybe they're not made of rock, but rather brock.

Pun intended;)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Nuke on February 16, 2011, 12:30:37 pm
i broused through here and i see a lot of burt rutan-ish aircraft in there. maybe you all need to have a look at the scaled composites inventory for some more inspiration, lots of badass planes in there. and the coolest thing is they all fly.

http://www.scaled.com/projects/
http://www.air-and-space.com/Rutan.htm
http://factoidz.com/the-aircraft-designs-of-burt-rutan/
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: starlord on March 23, 2011, 04:31:26 am
are there any news regarding that concept? it seemed quite interesting!
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on March 23, 2011, 04:43:08 am
Well, I still want to work on it, but RL and my other commitments keep getting in the way :P Don't worry though, it will pick up steam again; the background provided by Swashmebuckle just is too interesting to go to waste.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: starlord on March 23, 2011, 06:58:50 am
excellent! way good news!
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: swashmebuckle on March 25, 2011, 05:57:36 pm
I sent The E a somewhat more tonally consistent edited version of the background stuff very recently actually, so there has been a bit of progress on that end since the last posting.  I've also made my hands chase each other around while making propeller and machine gun noises on no fewer than three occasions, which is progress of a kind if you can dig it.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Mobius on March 27, 2011, 08:26:22 am
I like the left-half of it... the right half reminds me of a salt crystal.   :p

Or Pyrite. :)

Do you guys know the game Jak and Daxter: The Lost Frontier? There are many interesting scenarios and designs them you may wish to look at. There's a place called Far Drop where you can see huge crystals near a city... inside a cave!
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on March 27, 2011, 11:20:43 am
This thread made me reinstall Crimson Skies after reading a few pages. Now I really wish I had my Joystick with me.

In any case, this looks great. Have fun with your project guys. :yes:
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: GT-Keravnos on March 30, 2011, 04:10:46 pm
Much as I played Crimson skies and enjoyed it, when it was out, there is one thing I seriously dislike about your concepts and I think I need to speak about.

Flying mountains? Whatever is this? How is this supposed to work? Are you making an avatar with propeller driven aircraft?

I respect the works of your imagination and will probably play what you create, if this comes to a playable conclusion, because there are some imaginary concepts in there I like a lot, for example that flying aircraft carrier. Still, there really needs to be some plausibility in there. A detail like this, of the "flying mountains" variety, is just false.
Ok, rant done, mind spoken, returning to lurker status.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on March 30, 2011, 04:11:42 pm
Ahem. The flying mountains are UT's idea, not mine. There is no such thing in my Free Skies project.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: GT-Keravnos on March 30, 2011, 04:35:53 pm
Upon reading the post, I thought as much. It seems I was mistaken. Good to know that you won't include "flying mountains" in Free skies.
 
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: CaptJosh on April 30, 2011, 10:34:46 am
I know this topic hasn't been posted to in some time, however, having just read through it, I have to say, first of all, swashmebuckle, you do VERY well at alternate history. Your summaries remind me of Eric Flint's summaries of the changes wrought to Europe by 21st century Grantville, WV, being dropped in the middle of the 30 Years' War. Plenty of detail, but quite succinct, and they hold one's attention. These should be some sort of techroom entries in this pro-posed mod. Although the tech room should probably be called something like "squadron intelligence" instead.

I like a lot of the air-navy concepts. I disagree that a the one ship with the bow guns is automatically a pre-dreadnought. Also, classifying the turret on it as the primary gun battery is probably wrong. The bow guns actually look heavier. The turret near the superstructure would appear to actually be the secondary battery, for covering the broadsides of the ship, though the bow guns clearly can swivel to cover some of that themselves. Even if it isn't a dreadnought, it's one MEAN ship I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of those guns in another ship.

That futuristic aerial carrier design for that other game mod is fascinating. And I have to say, the nacelle idea with puller pusher sets is likely the best end stage design of that. You get the power of four engines without the nastiness of the choppy air coming off the props of one set immediately hitting the props of the aft-most engines.

Keep it up guys. I love the concepts. Also, one of the planes toward the end of the thread looks like it was ripped right out of Disney's Tail Spin cartoon. Save that it's a biplane instead of a tripe, it's identical, as far as I can remember, to the plane of one Don Karnage.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: PeterX on May 07, 2011, 01:42:20 pm
I have a model-WIP of an "old" Fritz-X bomb and want to ask can it be used in this mod.
Look there http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=75956.msg1507694#msg1507694 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=75956.msg1507694#msg1507694)
I´ll look for other stuff can be used here.(I hope so i can)
Peter
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on May 08, 2011, 06:57:46 am
@The_E - I know it's perhaps a little early to be considering this, but I've made a list of music tracks that I think might be suitable for the mod. Most of them are from Freeplay Music. If you want, I could post or PM you a list of links for you to consider them.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on May 08, 2011, 07:54:11 am
Sure, post them here.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish) - Music List
Post by: lostllama on May 09, 2011, 04:14:55 pm
I was going to link to each track separately under descriptive headings but it seems that isn't possible, so here they are arranged by album (if one of the tracks doesn't appear on the album page try clicking on the "Next 10 Results" link). I took your thoughts into account (you wanted something that wouldn't sound out of place in an Indiana Jones or swashbuckling movie), although I also included some other action pieces that might be suitable.

Apologies if it seems that I haven't been very selective - I know this is a huge list. I mostly chose these directly from my search results, so I haven't scoured every single album on the site, hence I might have missed some other good ones.

I've included some of my thoughts on how each track might be used (e.g. briefing, in-game combat/action or ambient, title/mainhall music, cutscene/cinematic etc). Feel free to decide how they could be utilized.

Action And Adventure Vol. 1 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1202)

Strike Eagle - In-game action. Would fit in with the other tracks more if it weren't for the rock/electronic parts and the drum beat, so I’m not sure about this one.

Tank Battle - Briefing / in-game action.


Action And Adventure Vol. 2 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1218)

The Polis – Briefing or in-game; has parts that might suit ambient and action segments.

World Wonder – Briefing, or in-game ambient.


Action And Adventure Vol. 3 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1293)

Sails Under Strain – Sort of patriotic, emotive sounding. Could be used for a cutscene, like for a ship leaving dock for its maiden voyage.

To the Sea – Very similar in feel to the above track.


Action And Adventure Vol. 4 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1295)

Guns And Powder – Short in-game pirate-like theme.

Action And Adventure Vol. 5 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1415)

Glory Underway - Might be good as a title track, or for use during a command briefing/cutscene. Has a slight sea-going/pirate-like theme to it.

On Another Episode - In-game action.

Out of Time – Slow paced, sad emotive music. Might suit a cutscene.

Soldiers and Pilgrims – Grand/heroic, cinematic memorial theme. Possible victory music.


Action And Adventure Vol. 6 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1414)

Bomb Launcher – In-game action. Has guitars and synths, so it might not fit with most of the others. Sounds really good though.

Missiles – Dramatic in-game action. Sounds a lot like Bomb Launcher, but slightly less heavy with the guitar perhaps.

Starships - Orchestral with synth elements. In-game action.


Action And Adventure Vol. 8 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=2591)

Collateral Damage – Cinematic battle, or in-game action.

Cruel Spring Ahead - Tense sounding track. Could be suitable for briefings as well as use in-mission.



Battle Themes Vol. 1 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1220)

Crawl And Hide - Briefing, or in-game ambient perhaps.

Empire Air Force - In-game combat/cinematic, or briefing (has some Asian musical influence, so might go well with missions based in the Far East).

Field Forces – In-game action, or briefing perhaps.

Gun Attack – In-game combat.

Growing Danger - In-game combat

Lost Wars - Briefing.

Navy Seals – Briefing, or perhaps use certain parts for in-game ambient or action segments.

Naval Combat - Cinematic, briefing, or in-game combat.

Objective Combat – In-game battle music.

Operation Eagle - Cinematic, briefing, or in-game action.

Prevailing Soldier - Poignant, memorial, cinematic. Suitable for cutscene, mission debrief or fiction viewer music.

Reinforcements – Briefing, or in-game ambient/action. Almost 7 minutes long, so parts of it may suit different situations.

Target Mission - Dark brooding piece. Might be good for a briefing, perhaps for a dangerous mission. Or in-game ambient/action.


Battle Themes Vol. 2 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1287)

Foreign Shores – Tense sounding, in-game ambient.

The Spy – In-game battle. Sound might not fit with other tracks as it contains some synth elements, but it’s mostly orchestral.


Battle Themes Vol. 3 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1291)

Angels Of Fire – In-game action or cutscene maybe.

Hatebreed - In-game combat.

House of Death – In-game action, or dramatic cinematic theme.

The Kings Men – Briefing (?) / in-game combat or cutscene.


Battle Themes Vol. 6 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=2590)

Armor - Suspense, short in-game event music.


Cinematic Electronic Vol. 7 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=904)

Sneak Attack – Short event music (15 seconds long).


Classical For Film Vol. 2 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1416)

Americas Beauty - Mission success debrief/victory music, or cinematic cutscene.

Black Day – Mission failure debrief.

Blissful Victory – Short victory music piece.

Fanfare - Mission success debrief, or short dramatic in-game event victory music.

Fight Good - Short dramatic in-game event music.

Great Eye – Short dark/mysterious briefing music, or in-game event piece.

Taste Steel - Short in-game action/event music (could be used for when friendly units appear or for completing objectives).

Volcano - Short dramatic event music.

Dark Dimensions Vol. 1 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=932)

Midnight March – Briefing, or in-game event music (action/combat maybe).


Dark Drones Vol. 4 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=2084)

Death Coach – Briefing, possibly for a red alert/scramble mission (only 15 seconds long).


Drama Vol. 2 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=944)

Steadfast - Sad/mournful, with a synth beat. I think this could be suitable for a powerful cutscene, such as one in which the player’s home ship is sinking/falling, and needs to be abandoned/and or scuttled, or something like that.


Drama Vol. 3 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1285)

Field Honor – Briefing / in-game / mainhall or title screen?


Dramatic Soundscapes Vol. 1 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1353)

Risky Adventure – Short track that could be used for in-game mission success or debrief music.


Dramatic Soundscapes Vol. 11 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=2103)

War Of The Nations – Emotive tune about memorial/loss, cinematic.


Electronica Transmissions Vol. 3 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1045)

Tango Vs Tangle - Tense, dark track, maybe suitable for in-game ambience.


Evil Intentions Vol. 3 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1400)

Truckstop – Campaign briefing/mystery or exploration feeling.

Villa – Somewhat doomy/mysterious sounding. Mission briefing/command briefing.


Evil Intentions Vol. 5 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1412)

Doctors Theme - Mission/command briefing.

The Edge - Dark, mysterious, somewhat tense track with some synth effects. Might suit a briefing, or be suitable as in-game ambient music.

Frequency Orch. Elgar Pomp and Circumstance (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1197)

Elgar Pomp and Circumstance March 1 - The B section contains “Land of Hope and Glory” (also known as “The Graduation March”).

Elgar Pomp and Circumstance March 3 - Parts of it could be used for in-game combat (Vassago’s Dirge convinced me that classical music pieces can have their place in FreeSpace).


Motivational Vol. 1 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=15)

Morning On The Field - Victory music for debriefing, maybe.

Motivational Vol. 2 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=16)

Beyond The Sunset – Cinematic / victory music for debriefing (not too sure about using this one).


Music For Pictures Vol. 9 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1198)

Deserted Ship – Eerie music, not sure about the suitability of this one though.


Mystical Symphonic Vol. 2 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1247)

The Noblemen - Grand, regal, cinematic. Cutscene/briefing music, or perhaps victory music for a debriefing.


Mystical Symphonic Vol. 3 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1289)

The Nights Lady – Calm, reflective track. Might be good for a command briefing or for when reading fiction viewer text.


Orchestral Dimensions Vol. 1 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1498)

Attack Underway – Dark sounding in-game action track.


Orchestral Dimensions Vol. 6 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=2073)

Hopeful Thoughts – Cinematic, memorial, regal sounding. Cutscene, or command briefing/fiction viewer track perhaps. Title music maybe?

The Saga – Sad military-like theme.


Orchestral Soundscapes Vol. 4 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1137)

Flagship Commander – Briefing, maybe in-game music too.

The Escape Route - In-game music, ambient.


Orchestral Vol. 1 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=46)

Pirates Nest – Powerful sounding track, probably good  for a title/mainhall theme, briefing, or might be make good music for an epic cutscene.

Sand Storms – Dark sounding. Suitable for briefing, and maybe in-game action too.

The Stand (The Last Stand) – Gloomy sounding. In-game ambient, briefing or debriefing.


Orchestral Vol. 2 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=922)

Entry Of The Nations – Grand, cinematic rock orchestral track. Might not fit in with the other tracks, although it could suit a cutscene (like an end of game, outgoing one), or be used as a credits or victory theme.

Southsea – Piratey theme, may make a good title/mainhall theme tune. Could be used in-mission too.


Orchestral Vol. 4 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1020)

Our Hope Beat – Cutscene/cinematic, or in-game event. Possible victory debriefing track.

Our Hope - As above but without the beat.

Mountains in the Sky – Possible title theme/mainhall music. I think this one fits well with the mod’s theme.

Pursued – Briefing or in-game combat.


Percussion Vol. 1 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1849)

Abort - Briefing music for a red alert or scramble scenario. Could be used as battle music perhaps.

Abort Underscore – As above but without the sonar-like ping and other synth effects.


Promos Vol. 5 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1420)

Ulterior Motive - Sinister sounding. Command or mission briefing music.


Soundtrack Action Vol. 2 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1583)

Hunted - In-game combat.

Make A Run For It - In-game combat.

Must Persevere – Briefing, or desperate in-game combat, would be suitable for an epic dogfight.

No Second Chances - In-game combat with an ambient section.


Soundtrack Action Vol. 3 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1584)

Prepare for Battle – In-game combat.

On the Battlefield – In-game combat.


Soundtrack Action Vol. 4 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1912)

Atlantis Rising – Mostly soft-sounding. Would make good briefing music.

Power Surge – Urgent, dramatic, with synth effects. In-game action/combat.

Sharpened Arrow - Urgent sounding. In-game combat.


Soundtrack Action Vol. 6 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=2003)

Cant Fool Me – In-game combat.

Running Away - Desperate sounding, tense in-game combat track.

The Arrival - Dark, sad, reflective track with some synth effects. In-game combat.


Soundtrack Action Vol. 7 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=2004)

Dangerous Shadows – Tense sounding. In-game combat; might suit an attack on a dangerous ship/fleet, or a dogfight with an elite squadron.

Grand Façade - In-game action.

I Will Return – Powerful emotive, reflective track. Possible title/mainhall or cutscene music. Or perhaps briefing/debriefing (for partial defeat or loss maybe).

Twist and Turn - Long-ish in-game action piece, would probably suit a lengthy, desperate epic dogfight sequence in which you have to defend a vital objective, or attack a rival/enemy ship or fleet.


Soundtrack Drama Vol. 9 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1808)

Clouds And Oceans – Mystical vocal track, not sure about its suitability.

Soundtrack Suspense Vol. 6 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1843)

Dark Butterfly – Mostly piano with some strings. Command or mission briefing.


Soundtrack Suspense Vol. 7 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1890)

Finally Discovered – Short dramatic in-game event track, could be used for new enemy units appearing.


Soundtrack Suspense Vol. 8 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1891)

The Wild Sea - Briefing or in-game action piece.


Soundtrack Suspense Vol. 9 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1894)

Worse than Death – Possible mission failure music, or just use as a mysterious sounding track for a command briefing.


Soundtrack Suspense Vol. 12 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1893)

Beyond Our Control – Short mysterious sounding track, perhaps useful for a briefing.


Soundtrack Suspense Vol. 13 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=2015)

Elevate – Command/mission briefing.


Victory Grand Vol. 1 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=33)

Opening The - Cinematic, but probably too romantic sounding.

Victory - The last 65 seconds or so could be good for a mission success debriefing.


Washingtonian Vol. 1 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=34)

Capitol Pulse – Mission successful debrief music.

Precedent – Mission success/debriefing music.

While the Nation Mourns - As it sounds, a sad, patriotic-like piece.


Westerns Vol. 1 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1406)

Dutchman – Grand theme. Might suit a command briefing or a cutscene. Would make a good victory tune too.


Westerns Vol. 2 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1407)

Royal – Would suit command briefings/mission briefings. Might be suitable for in-game ambient, not sure though.


World Mix Vol. 3 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=37)

Call The - African beats with orchestral strings. Command/mission briefing music.


Audionautix

The following are from Jason Shaw’s Audionautix site (http://www.audionautix.com (http://www.audionautix.com)).

Track #53: Big Intro - Short in-mission event music for appearance of new friendly units or something.

Track #54: Big Intro #2 - As above.

Track #64: Enemy Ships - Event music for when enemy units appear.

Track #80: Night Runner - Briefing music.

After listening to some Elgar and Hendel, I'm thinking that some other classical pieces could be included depending on where the missions take place, just to get across a pan-European (or wherever) feel into the mod.

EDIT: Deleted duplicate track under wrong album title.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on May 10, 2011, 07:44:48 am
A handful more.

Action And Adventure Vol. 4 (http://freeplaymusic.com/search/category_search.php?t=v&i=1295) (a good album for swashbuckling themes)

Black Flag - Dark, brooding. Good briefing track.

Burning Frigate - Pirate-like theme, good for a dramatic in-game combat sequence, or a cutscene.

Fight The Monsters - In-game combat.

Francis Drake - Sea-going/pirate theme. Briefing, or in-game action

Pirates Hook - Pirate theme. May be a little too light-hearted.

Woodlegger - Short, dark, dramatic vocal and orchestral track for in-game combat.

Seems like I've been really drawn towards Tillman Sillescu's material.

EDIT: Forgot to add the "Francis Drake" track.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on May 10, 2011, 10:13:04 am
Just a heads-up on a possible source for sky textures: http://continuum3d.com/grafix/C3DB-SkyHome.html# (http://continuum3d.com/grafix/C3DB-SkyHome.html#)

Discussion here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76037.0 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76037.0)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on June 15, 2011, 12:59:21 pm
Hello again. I'm contemplating joining this airship modelling forum to ask if there might be anyone interested in contributing to Free Skies (I'm assuming that aerostats are still present in this setting - correct me if I am mistaken).

http://www.airshipmodeler.com/forums/index.php?s=d261b098cc7cbadcc4e4db06da1f1050 (http://www.airshipmodeler.com/forums/index.php?s=d261b098cc7cbadcc4e4db06da1f1050)

There hasn't been much activity recently in the 3D/CG board but it seems like the best place to introduce this project. Shall I go ahead and make a post, The_E?
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on June 15, 2011, 01:00:44 pm
Sure-
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on June 16, 2011, 06:48:09 am
I hope this summarizes the mod and its requirements well enough: http://www.airshipmodeler.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7809#post7809 (http://www.airshipmodeler.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7809#post7809).

Made some progress on the model I started a few months ago.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/1.jpg)

I decided to go down the one-man fighter route. Shortened the canopy, moved it further back, remade the gun blisters and added a couple of wing-mounted guns. Also added some cowl flaps and reduced the size of the intake under the nose. Still need to remodel the propeller.

I've been thinking about making some fluff that doesn't sound too implausible for this thing. Basically, it's meant to be an early attempt to produce a parasite fighter (i.e. one that's carried about by an airship for scouting and CAP) that has the performance of a conventional land-based fighter. So it has a heavy-ish armament comprising 3 banks of two guns each (machine guns in the cowling blisters and cannons in the wings), which I'd like to configure so that they can be fired in any combination (I can live without this though) and the capability to carry a small variety of bombs and rockets. It also has plenty of space for fuel, giving it a good range, folding wings, and an undercarriage and underslung arresting hook gear so it can land on runways and carrier decks (the latter three features haven't been modelled yet). The engine is supposed to be slightly above average in terms of general performance, but unfortunately the overall aircraft design is a bit of a failure because the engine has been partnered with an inferior airframe (note the somewhat thick wing and drag-inducing gun blisters).

The design that I based this on is supposed to have a BMW 801A engine. I'm intending to get the cowling dimensions look as though they could house this engine type. However other planes like the Fw-190 that were powered by the 801 didn't have cowl flaps or a scoop-like intake fitted, so I'm probably going to say that the intake is for a special supercharger and the cowl flaps are for, uhm, extra cooling. Of course I could just ignore any attempt at pseudo-historical accuracy. I think the fuselage would look a little bland without these features so I'll likely keep them.

To keep the weight down to allow several of them to be carried by airships, it uses unobtainium has a hybrid geodesic/geodetic and monocoque airframe, probably using mixed materials like wood and fabric for the skin along the fuselage, and stressed aluminum in other places.  There's supposed to be some armour for the cockpit and fuel tanks but they aren't heavily protected.

Dimensions wise, it'll be about 8mtrs long with a wingspan for about 8.3mtrs.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/2_h-points.jpg)

Here you can probably just make out the hardpoints under the fuselage and the wings. The central one is intended for a large bomb, dumbfire rocket or drop tank, the two smaller ones further out under the wings are for smaller bombs or drop tanks, and the outermost ones are for small rockets.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/4_surfaces.jpg)

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/6_surfaces_wireframe.jpg)

Highlighted the control surfaces that I've modelled separately from the other meshes. Haven't done the rudder or flaps yet. I've experimented (on a copy of this model) with thinning out the rear fuselage so that it blends in with the tail, but I'm finding it hard to do without making it look crummy. The gray tube-like things extending from under the cowling and towards the cockpit and ending just above the upper gun blisters is what's meant to be part of an extendable docking hook so that it can dock with an underslung trapeze mounted on an airship. It's something I'm still mulling over.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/5_slat.jpg)

Close-up of one of the slats. These would automatically extend outwards ahead of the wing during slow speed maneuvers and tight turns. They're a bit of an afterthought. They would look better on a straight-edged part of the wing, as right now they have a few kinks in their shape so that they fit flush with the wing when retracted.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/7_outerwings.jpg)

Highlighted above are the outer parts of the wings that I'd like to make foldable to enable easier stowage.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on June 16, 2011, 08:42:09 am
Hmmm...

It's certainly a lot of work to correct an X-Plane model for use in an external program (apart from X-Plane), but using plane-maker might not be a bad call if you're just wanting a program which will make the wings a certain size or dimension, angle, etc. There's a plugin which you can get to import an X-Plane object into Blender, and you can get Plane-Maker by downloading the X-Plane demo. Might be worth considering.

:)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on June 16, 2011, 08:54:32 am
I had considered using that but I haven't really looked into it. I have X-Plane 9 installed, so I might try it out. Actually, I'd like to see how this flies in X-Plane. I guess I'd have to come up with some stats for engine horsepower, mass, center of gravity placement, etc.

The basic shape of my model was made using RcCAD. Upon importing it into Blender I found that it had triangulated all the polygons, so I had to de-triangulate it first. I had a feeling that using more than one program to make a model would end up being problematic, but it seems to have worked out mostly OK (so far).
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on June 16, 2011, 09:34:12 am
Well, here's some general information on X-Plane aircraft you might keep in mind:

(a.) Exported models from Plane-Maker do NOT have the vertices welded between polygons, or whatever program-specific jargon you use. This is the first thing you'll probably want to fix.

(b.) If you want to test the design of the model in X-Plane, you'll need to re-create the aircraft in Plane-Maker first, which I'm sure you're well aware of. However, I've encountered several people who seemed to think that merely importing geometry created in an external CAD program would suffice to make an accurate flight model. On the bright side, that external model should make creating the PM model very simple, as now you only need to size the geometry to match the PM geometry to the model you made in Blender.

(c.) PM models will always be triangulated; this is in part due to how X-Plane uses geometry to determine flight characteristics. You'll need to re-combine all elements into quads.

(d.) Models are produced by parts. If you want to create a proper manifold mesh, you'll have a lot of work in store for you.

Again, you probably knew a lot of that, but just in case you didn't. :)
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on June 16, 2011, 10:02:21 am
Actually I wasn't aware of that, so thanks for the info. Points a, c and d apply to RcCAD too, IIRC; I haven't used the program for a while. Had this been a more complicated model I might have given up trying to correct it. The wings were in separate sections so I had to join them up in Blender, and the other parts (stabilizer, tail fin, canopy, guns etc.) are all separate, intersecting meshes. I'm a bit concerned about this, because I'm wondering how it will affect texturing, or indeed, anything else further down the line.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on June 16, 2011, 11:11:03 am
That's certainly something which has slowed down re-making X-Plane models for general use on my end as well. All in all, it's just something which takes time, patience, common sense, and a little know-how to process things. Taking and making enough time can go a long way.

Modeling by parts actually isn't a bad modeling approach, though it suits specific programs and applications better than general modeling. As you can see, joining things up again is the hard part. With enough tact and good insight, you certainly can make the best of things. As far as joining things up again, here's my advice: Try not to over-complicate the mesh in the early phases, take the parts into account one-at-a-time.

Finally, if you have any X-Plane related questions, feel free to ask, and I'll do my best to help.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on June 17, 2011, 12:42:08 pm
Thanks. :) I'll keep your advice in mind in future.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: swashmebuckle on June 17, 2011, 12:50:20 pm
Ah, to dive bomb an escort ship with the new gravity script, launch off dumbfire rockets into airships to show off the new particle script, and return to the carrier airstrip with the new landing code.  Cool plane :yes:
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on June 17, 2011, 03:25:36 pm
Well I thought I'd make it somewhat multi-role, a bit like what the Apollo is to FS1 or the Myrmidon to FS2 maybe. A jack of most trades but not quite excelling in any particular area. Haven't done any tabling yet, but for the time being that's my take on it. Glad you like it. It's slow going at the moment as I keep thinking about altering the fuselage and wings (the latter reduce the forward visibility from the cockpit between 10 and 2 o'clock low, which may make dogfighting difficult for those players that use the showship flag; then again maybe not, if we use target indicators as an aid to finding targets) and I still need to figure out how best to join up these separate meshes.

Something I'd like to suggest be taken advantage of for this mod is Nuke's mixed ammo script to enable guns to fire tracer, AP, and incendiary rounds. Use of m!m's turret control script to allow you to handle AAA guns Pearl Harbour-style (and perhaps also big deck guns on ships) would also be neat, as would being able to take control of gunner positions in multi-seater aircraft.

Also an ability to use War Emergency Power (WEP) to provide a temporary boost to engines. I think this could be implemented in the same way as in TVWP, i.e. afterburners that have a finite fuel reserve.

Having said all that, please note that I'm not expecting this to end up becoming an IL-2 clone.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: PeterX on June 18, 2011, 03:24:51 am
The Petljakov PE4 the IL 2 3M and the Me 262 had a thowable booster as special equipment on the wings or under the fusleage near the tails.
Peter
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on June 18, 2011, 04:16:39 am
Just to be clear, I wasn't referring to literal afterburning engines or rocket boosters, but about how we could go about implementing WEP in the same way as the non-rechargable afterburners were implemented in the TVWP mod. However disposable rocket boosters could be something to think about too.

Another feature that would add a bit of realism (again, sorry if this seems out of scope for this mod) would be to have weapon (and maybe fuel) payload affect maneuverability and top speed. This could be achieved by increasing the stall speed by a certain factor that's related to the total mass of the ordnance you carry. So for a plane with a full ordnance payload you'd have to be more careful with the controls to avoid stalling or entering a spin. Stall speed would reduce as you expended your ordnance, allowing you to maneuver more freely.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: fidelfspikes on August 19, 2011, 03:28:07 am
ppl . . is this mod dead?????
i am dying to play an airship game that is a decent adventure
not to mention a crimson skies advanced version . .  :(

registered to let you know . .well i guess it is dead since it has been 2 months now  :(
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Kon on August 19, 2011, 01:53:45 pm
I was a huge fan of Crimson Skies and would love to see some Steampunk stuff in Freespace. As far as I know, there are currently only a handful of atmospheric missions, and as mentioned, none of them have gravity. So this does seem like an unprecedented amount of work for one mod. However, I hope it's still in your minds.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on August 19, 2011, 03:16:02 pm
Sorry, but apart from occasionally and tentatively working on my fighter, the only other "progress" I've made is in acquiring four airship models from some free 3D model repository websites that could probably be used in this mod. I've also found a Space Battleship Yamato model (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76013.msg1509334#msg1509334) that could be used, but all of these will need some tinkering to get them into FS. Aside from those I have one or two other ideas for models that I'd like to make but they are just ideas right now.

I think that the interest in this mod is there; this thread has had many views already. My understanding is that adapting the engine to simulate atmospheric flight is the hurdle that this, and I'm guessing that the other atmospheric flight mods, have to get over to really make it worthwhile at all.

Hopefully this will be taken off the back-burner at some point.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I've been collecting suitable sound effects too.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on August 19, 2011, 04:19:35 pm
Small projects, if they are intending to get started, need to make themselves a desireable subject for one to divert time into. How they do that varies, but I do not think this project has done very well in that regard so far. It also doesn't help that those who might contribute are oft very busy with something else.

What I do like is that so far, this one is VERY open and ready for suggestions or contributions. I actually threw in a simple V-2 rocket for this one a while back. What it doesn't have is an energy or visible sense of direction yet, thus limiting any desire for it to become anything more than it is now. Once that vitality drops from a project, it's hard to stop the heels from dragging in. There's also some technical limitations for doing this project with FSO as it stands now, but that can be rectified if you ever gain some energy in here. Goodness knows how many other projects would take off because of that as well...

If someone wants this to be a reality, you'll need to step up and get the ball rolling. Keep the project open - I think there's a lot of projects that people wouldn't mind participating in, but they think they have to know something or have some sort of skill to begin with. I'm going to say that might be true of some projects, but it's not required. In fact, for something like this, I'm going to say that's a load of horse ****. This is a great opportunity for someone to open a project which lets the community teach each other about anything ranging from writing (there's enough in here already to date), programming, software use, and art and engineering. Having an open project on HLP would be a nice change-up from the usual behind-the-doors approach. In that manner, if it doesn't move as fast as you'd like, then you have the ability to do something about it.  :yes:
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: swashmebuckle on August 19, 2011, 06:21:18 pm
I certainly don't think that the mod has been abandoned (judging by the bumps, there seems to be a healthy amount of interest from the community), but I can see people not really wanting to put in work on it while there are still so many pieces missing.  Artists may see it as risky to sink time into a project when the code for the basic mechanics of the thing aren't in place, and coders don't really have any assets to work/test with at this point, so it's understandable why progress is slow given the number of other, more established projects that their help is needed on.  That said, I think a viable modpack might be more within reach than it seems.  I'm not saying it isn't going to be a lot of work, but here's a (fairly modest) list of things I think would be needed for a bare bones, generating interest type of release:


Obviously there are thing's I'm forgetting, but that seems fairly comparable to the very successful BtRL demo release (though they did have lots of polish, VA, etc.).  I've intentionally left off the significant code/scripting changes that atmospheric missions require (mostly AI problems as I understand it), but I'd guess that there would be a lot more code-side interest in working on those issues if a mod like this got to a point where that were the main thing holding back a release.  I'm willing to bet that a good number of the items I've listed can be salvaged in one way or another from other sources.  For instance, mods like TVWP and 158th used machine-gun type weapons--why not build off of what they have already accomplished (giving credit, of course)?  Historical photographs or just random shots of flying through the clouds could be used for the main hall and loading screens.  I have a white smoke effect I made for FotG that would work for a damage trail, and I suspect that community members have lots of similar stuff (skyboxes, visual effects, sounds) laying around that could really help speed things along, even if most of it ends up getting replaced once the mod gets on its feet.

Anyway, just thinking out loud here; hope my 2 cents are of interest :)

lostllama, do you have any screens of the airship models you've acquired?
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Thaeris on August 19, 2011, 06:29:16 pm
Actually...

I do have some WWII ships in my archives. However, I'm going to need permission from the author before I let someone work on them, and I'm not going to be working on them myself. If you're interested, I'll convert them to a common format after I get permission, if I get it, and you'll (well, whoever picks them up) need to fix anything after that. Because these were originally created for the X-Plane community, I'm further going to add the stipulation that anyone who decides to improve these models will need to share and return that work. Modding communities which help other modding communities will help build each other up.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on August 20, 2011, 12:32:59 pm
Here are the airship models I mentioned.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/Zep_1-1.jpg)

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/Zep_1-2.jpg)

The site I downloaded it from: http://thefree3dmodels.com/stuff/aircraft/zeppelin_1/15-1-0-414 (http://thefree3dmodels.com/stuff/aircraft/zeppelin_1/15-1-0-414). The front of it looks a bit different in the picture displayed there. 2,048 faces in all.


Another from the same site (http://[url=http://thefree3dmodels.com/stuff/aircraft/zeppelin_2/15-1-0-415). 3,272 faces. This one looks a bit WW1 era to me.

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/Zep_2-1.jpg)

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/Zep_2-2.jpg)


The following are from Turbosquid.

LZ 129 Hindenburg, in .max format. More pics here: http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/235636 (http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/235636)

(http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_2009_07_13__15_55_41/zp00.jpg3ecf520a-7664-4a90-a2f0-7c7240c61464Larger.jpg)

This one is somewhat cartoonish looking. I was thinking that it could be split into two models, one a winged airship, and the boat-like gondola thing made into some kind of flugstein-powered vessel or something.

[EDIT: Looking more closely, I think that there are supposed to be two models docked to each other in this this package. Of the .lwo files included, one of them is of a version with 5,995 faces, and another one has some extra detail and totals 20,557 faces].

(http://files.turbosquid.com/Preview/Content_2009_07_15__09_18_51/render%20cel2.JPG4e8e5a36-8f5e-4644-97e8-1acc52f13b69Larger.jpg)

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/254399 (.lwo format).

(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc418/est3b4n/Airships.jpg)

[EDIT: ^A less blurry pic of the higher poly one].

There are a couple of others I considered as well, but didn't download:
http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/334426 (http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/334426)
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/free-air-ship-3d-model/400992 (http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/free-air-ship-3d-model/400992)

One of my ideas is to make a carrier aerostat to go with the fighter I've been modeling but I'm not sure if I'll get around to doing it.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on September 13, 2011, 09:31:29 am
Just wanted to post about this artist's website, for possible future reference: http://www.oxygino.com/site/ (http://www.oxygino.com/site/)

I've DL'd a few models from there already: http://www.oxygino.com/site/?cat=49  (http://www.oxygino.com/site/?cat=49), in particular the Arado 381, Me-163 Komet, Me-262 HGIII and the 88mm flak gun emplacement. I haven't had a proper look at them yet however, and some of them are in .max format which cannot be imported in my version of Blender (2.49b).

Also there's a large set of air force roundels/insignia for numerous countries here for download: http://www.oxygino.com/site/?p=320 (http://www.oxygino.com/site/?p=320) and some Photoshop swatches for different color/camouflage schemes here: http://www.oxygino.com/site/?cat=56 (http://www.oxygino.com/site/?cat=56)

Of course, if I ever decide to use any of these assets I'll ask for the artist's permission first.

No real news on the modeling progress. Still not sure how to join up the meshes tidily. I might just have them positioned very close to each other rather than actually welded together.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: mandobardanjusik on May 22, 2012, 07:41:39 am
ok I have decided to start working with The_E on this, so soon we should have something interesting
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: General Battuta on May 22, 2012, 08:15:43 am
lol
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on May 22, 2012, 09:03:12 am
Valve time soon, obviously.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on May 22, 2012, 09:06:06 am
lol
I second that. :) Funny, I was just thinking about that project recently. Must have been because of that WW2 hyperdrive thingy ...
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: Angelus on May 22, 2012, 11:13:12 am
Which reminds me to finish those fighters soon. Preferably not in valvetime.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: lostllama on May 22, 2012, 11:23:05 am
I'll admit that I'm (obviously) guilty of losing motivation on this project since about a year ago, and I apologize if I was getting anyone's hopes up about the modelling progress. I always wanted to contribute something to this and now that there's a little more interest, I'm willing to try and blow away the dust that has gathered on my Blender skills (if they can be called as such) and get back to working on my fighter model, and maybe one or two other ideas. I'll probably need to ask, nay, bug some modellers for advice, so I apologize in advance for that, too.

I still have the sound effects (explosions, engine sounds, gunfire and some others) that I've collected from several websites, as well as the above free models, if they're of any interest.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on May 22, 2012, 11:25:45 am
Oh, there certainly is interest. Send me a PM or email or something.
Title: Let's make Free Skies Happen!
Post by: Ophashias on February 18, 2013, 04:44:15 am
Crimson Skies is hands-down the best flying game I have ever played. It would be my dream to revitalize the atmosphere that this game cultivated with my imagination. I wanna help keep this project alive, and I would love to help. I am an aspiring modeler and coder, and I know some guys who could contribute. Let me read through the entire thread, then I'll answer questions. I should be able to help over the next four years to make this beauty happen.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: deathspeed on February 18, 2013, 07:29:44 am
I hadn't seen this thread before today, but I love the concept!  About all I can offer are encouraging words; I don't have any modding skills whatsoever.

I had stopped playing Crimson Skies after NVidia removed something from their driver that broke the text display when running on my 6600GT, but a couple of years ago I found a fix for it that also allowed non-original resolutions so I could play in 1920x1080 without cropping or distortion.

EDIT:  I can't find the original download link I used nor my actual files in my XP directory, but I did find this today: http://www.digitalbloodsports.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=389 (http://www.digitalbloodsports.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=389)  I have not yet tried any of these but looks promising!
Title: 3D modeler here - this project still alive?
Post by: mike_321 on November 13, 2013, 02:29:00 am
Hello everyone,

I stumbled upon this page, oddly enough, while searching for Crimson Skies ports and/or mods - mostly to play, but I am also a 3d artist looking for projects to add to my demo reel/resume and now that I see that there's a mod in the works, I may actually want to lend a hand! Though I see there hasn't been a post in a long time.....is this project still alive?

Going to post some screenshots of my work that's somewhat relevant to the subject matter.......

Hope there's some people out there who are still interested in keeping it going! Cheers!

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: The E on November 13, 2013, 03:45:19 am
It is very much on hiatus at the moment. I personally do not have the time at the moment to manage it, so it's pretty much open for anyone to start working on it.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: mike_321 on November 30, 2013, 08:56:21 pm
Right on. Well.....and this may be totally un-kosher to ask on this forum, but.....is there anyone still following this forum who would want to pursue a Crimson Skies-ish mod on another engine? Namely UDK or Unity? I've been experimenting with both engines recently and the tools are pretty amazing. I haven't touched FS2's editing tools so I'm not sure how they compare. But since this thing seems to be on indefinite hiatus anyways, perhaps "jumping ship" onto another toolset would reignite some of the excitement for anyone who just wants to make some games.

Wouldn't even have to be Crimson Skies per se, but I am really fascinated with alternate history and specifically with "Diesel Punk" (I didn't know it was a thing until recently).

Anyway just putting it out there.....
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: cahdoge on July 13, 2015, 06:01:46 pm
I love crimson skies. (Especcially those ridiculus flights in newyork.)

So my question is: Is this mod still alive?


I would even offer my active support for this.
Title: Re: Free Skies (The mod formerly known as Crimson Skies-ish)
Post by: swashmebuckle on July 13, 2015, 07:31:05 pm
AAAAAAAAAAAH Free Skies.

If someone converts a plane and a zeppelin into working .pofs, I will make a 1 mission demo where you shoot down Hitler over and over again.

I spent an entire day writing up that alternate universe history for this and am excited to see it go places, but I don't do modeling or model conversion or coding or scripting which are all things that this needs.

I did see a video of bullets having their trajectories altered by gravity recently (at least I think that's what it was) and we do have a falling debris script that mostly works, but I don't think anyone has made a successful atmospheric flight system that the AI can use as of yet.