Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: The E on November 22, 2010, 11:07:35 am
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Let us compare pics and stats here.
This is the original Uriel, aka Wraith:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0146.png)
It uses ~32 MBs of texture memory, distributed in 42 separate textures (counting all the various glow, shine and normal maps). It uses 15 separate textures, and requires 14 separate passes to render.
This is the new one:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0147.png)
It uses ~22MB of texture memory, in 5 separate maps (counting debris textures). It is rendered in a single pass.
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Still needs the little cockpit men!
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Still needs to stop dogpilehumping in Pawns! :p
Nice work though. The colour scheme change works nicely too.
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I like the older grimmer colors better, plus the normal map seems a little bit stronger, might want to change that.
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The older normal map was actually less pronounced in most places, but the noise on it added a lot to the texture.
All that aside, excellent work! Nice to see one of the insanely unoptimized models being made usable.
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Well, I have been working on the normal map. This is how it looks now:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0150.png)
And with all the textures turned on:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0151.png)
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Too strong.
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Well, I like them that way. If someone wants to redo them, I'll gladly hand over any material required.
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Gotta agree with Dekker here, too strong.
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It also lacks a bit of that "noise" my normals had.
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The original normal was great. I'll just register an opinion that it should be tweaked that way.
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I like the red parts, but I'd prefer the greyish main color over the new bluish coloring of the main body.
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Personally, I feel that the noise of the originals was far too strong, and tended to wash out the details implied in the texture. I might have gone a bit too far in the other direction, but i am not in the mood to redo it again right now. As I said, if someone wants to redo it, just drop me a line and I'll package it up.
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I like it, personally I think a way in between looks best. Slightly darker but with the bright accents staying bright. Also, a hue between the blue and dark grey. Something like:
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/441/uriela.jpg)
(If editing the pic is offensive or unwelcome, feel free to remove it).
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Lineup of all three, with Sara's at the bottom:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0146.png)
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0147.png)
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/441/uriela.jpg)
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I liked the noise on the original normal maps, but I do like the fact that you kept steve-o's original blue color scheme :D
I hope we get both the blue version and the black UEF version :D
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I like -Sara-s color scheme best :yes:
For the normals... I'm fine with both, though if it were to be redone a middleway between old and new, as The E suggested, would be nice.
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I <3 black color scheme for looks.
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Black was best. The Steve-O originals are a little cartoony, I think.
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The original looks best IMO, the noise on the normal map adds a lot, but it can also be faked by adding it to the shine map...
as for the depth of the normal map, it needs to be relatively strong on fighters, so you will actually notice them when flying around.
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Black was best. The Steve-O originals are a little cartoony, I think.
exactly. i must say i think the original is definitely the best. shame it's so inefficient.
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Please please please release a version with steve-o's original colorscheme, seeing as its done already...
I don't care if you make it black for the version in BP, I just want the other one out there as well.
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The normal maps look dirty for some reason on the optimized one, like the mapped grooves have ragged edges instead of smooth ones (especially on the pods with the silvery things with 3 slots in them). Maybe it's a side effect of being so strong. Might also be that the normal map resolution isn't high enough. <-Ignore this. I looked at the OP instead of the normal map screenshots further down.
Also, for sure bring back the noise, but only if it doesn't look like trash if it's too low res. The slight sparkle is making the original look like metal, and the lack of sparkle is making the optimized one look like plastic.
Diffuse texture reduction is really noticeable, but probably only in the ship lab, since you won't have any of these filling up your whole screen in normal situations. 16% boost in performance is huge though, so kudos. As for color scheme, I don't have a personal preference as long as it fits in with the rest of the UEF fleet.
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I also like the appearance of the original Uriel the most.
Does the reduced number of maps mean the entire cockpit is going to be seen, rather than have most of the panels hidden by 'invisible' labeled textures?
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I also like the appearance of the original Uriel the most.
'Original' as in Steve-O's original scheme (blue-red) or BP original scheme (grey)? :P
I too like the dark grey colour scheme, it looks more 'armour plating' and less 'pretty colours'. Sara's version could be a good compromise though.
I also like the noise on the normal map, gives it a bit of space wear instead of a polished look.
Also, optimization ftw!
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For all of you wanting to try it, here's the data you need:
http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/Uriel.7z
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i like both textures, the old one and the new one.
I think adding a tad bit noise to the new normal map and it'd be perfect.
Having both colorschemes would be cool, different squadrons, different colors.
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Another vote for the original, for what it's worth.
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Another vote for the original, for what it's worth.
I hope you mean the original color scheme, not the original mapping!
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I liked the original too dark color, but the new wing edges are great. I'd like to see it a bit more red-ish, with a golden UEF eagle.
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I also like the appearance of the original Uriel the most.
'Original' as in Steve-O's original scheme (blue-red) or BP original scheme (grey)? :P
Well I did say Uriel, so I was referring to the BP original. :P
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I liked the old style more: sooo...gritty, steelish (and stylish), and I'm far more familiar with, I've played the WiH campaign so often (like other people here and many of them have the same opinion). Grey or Black, that are colour for ships flied by real men or...ehm....Valkyries.
The best solution is to release a original-style submod or something. But I haven't the knowledge for this.
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The best solution is to release a original-style submod or something. But I haven't the knowledge for this.
Or we could just edit the newer texture to be darker. There's no reason that can't be done; the point of the remapping was to improve texture efficiency. Changes in the looks are secondary.
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Hmm, that sounds better. I think that would be a great idea. :yes:
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Which is why there's this post of mine:
For all of you wanting to try it, here's the data you need:
http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/Uriel.7z
You can do some remapping yourself and post your results here.
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Half of that can probably be mirrored in the UV mapping. I'd try it but I've got no tools to get a .pof all the way back into say Maya or 3DS. I know Metasequoia can turn a .cob back into a .3ds and .obj. Might go look for that program.
edit: Managed to get it back into Maya, UV mapped and all. Will try to see if I can try and map it somewhat.
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Another vote for the original, for what it's worth.
I hope you mean the original color scheme, not the original mapping!
Yeah, darker, less blue
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I tried optimizing the Jackal AKA UEF Kentauroi. It only uses four textures in total now: the cockpit glass, cockpit texture, the outside texture, and the debris texture. I made LOD1 use the same base model as LOD0 because the original LOD1 was higher in polygon count than LOD0 and I wouldn't have to make another texture or use up more texture space on my optimized textures.
Download (http://www.ciinet.org/kevin/Kentauroi.7z)
Included is the new POF, the new textures, and the Blender source files, plus a little bonus (Thunderstorm.dds).
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There's...already an optimized Jackal/Kentauroi...
It even has a little guy inside...
...and you didn't even leave the gun flaps on. :(
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Yeah, we've already got an optimized Jackal done by Esarai in the BP2 vps.
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While I like its appearance now, the way Talon's edit makes the subobjects have the same lighting effect as the ship's hull gives it a smooth, seamless look. As it is in BP, the missile pods and engine covers are a huge eyesore with their separate lighting effects, making them stick out too much when they're not being used.
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Uhhh, what? Sorry, but can you post a screenie of that? Because I'm quite sure all lighting is uniform on esarai's ship.
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(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/763/78413173.png)
With the panels covering the engines it's more subtle, it takes certain angles to really notice it, but the missile pods, always mess with the way light reflecting off the hull looks.
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The Uriel, Dariusified:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0154.png)(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0155.png)
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ahh good, good :yes:
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I do miss some of the gritty, metallic look my normals gave the original, but this is also quite good.
I won't be able to recreate the effect without introdcing some nasty problems with the normal, so we'll have to stick with this anyway.
BTW, that Kent looks almost like from a TV show, what are your lighting settings, Commander Zane?
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Works for me!
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*snip*
With the panels covering the engines it's more subtle, it takes certain angles to really notice it, but the missile pods, always mess with the way light reflecting off the hull looks.
Looks like simple smoothing errors; the Kentauroi (in released WiH) has no smoothing at all. Switch off the textures in the Ship Lab or PCS2 and you'll see what that means.
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I do miss some of the gritty, metallic look my normals gave the original, but this is also quite good.
I won't be able to recreate the effect without introdcing some nasty problems with the normal, so we'll have to stick with this anyway.
BTW, that Kent looks almost like from a TV show, what are your lighting settings, Commander Zane?
-ambient_factor 35 -ogl_spec 20 -spec_exp 15 -spec_point 1.2 -spec_static 1.5 -spec_tube 1.5
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Got similar lighting settings, except ogl_spec 80 and spec_static 12.8...I love a glaring sun!
For what it's worth I think the Dariusified Uriel looks best, it would be even better with some metallic noise but with 43 fps I wouldn't want to mess with it.
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Got similar lighting settings, except ogl_spec 80 and spec_static 12.8...I love a glaring sun!
For what it's worth I think the Dariusified Uriel looks best, it would be even better with some metallic noise but with 43 fps I wouldn't want to mess with it.
This I agree with wholeheartedly. One Uriel alone isn't a hit of any kind for me but they eventually contribute on Delenda Est when they're seen in numbers.
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Note that those FPS numbers aren't actually indicative of anything :P
Those shots were made on my system, running at a medium load already. I can say that, with the new Uriel in place, I got a bit of a performance increase in DE. Not much, because there's still the Karunas and Sanctii in the mission, which drag the whole thing down, but at least a bit.
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I get 20 frames at the lowest on that mission. ;)
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The Uriel, Dariusified:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0154.png)
[size=9]MANY BLESSINGS[/size] :D
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Next up, the Izra'il:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0157.png)
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0158.png)
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Cool! A beefed up Uhlan!
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Heh, no, more like the Uriel's really psychopathic older brother.
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either way :yes:
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glad to see that Cinema4D helped out there :D
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Looks good.
(The normals only model looks so very much like a plastic polystyrene model)
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I am saddened by the loss of gunpods and sliding cannons :(
Someone get Translation animations coded already!
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I am saddened by the loss of gunpods and sliding cannons :(
Someone get Translation animations coded already!
Yeah. :(
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Awww yeah!
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I am saddened by the loss of gunpods and sliding cannons :(
Someone get Translation animations coded already!
Wow those are so cool. *presses , and , over and over again in Kent race*
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ahh that's a beauty right there :yes:
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I am saddened by the loss of gunpods and sliding cannons :(
Someone get Translation animations coded already!
Wow those are so cool. *presses , and , over and over again in Kent race*
I am saddened by the loss of gunpods and sliding cannons :(
Someone get Translation animations coded already!
Yeah. :(
I am not going to add those. Stop whining about them now.
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Poop. That would be cool to mess with. :D
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Poop. That would be cool to mess with. :D
Well they're on the version of the Izra'il you have right now. Check it out in Kentauroi Race, I think it's available.
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Well they're on the version of the Izra'il you have right now. Check it out in Kentauroi Race, I think it's available.
It is. External view ftw
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I am not going to add those. Stop whining about them now.
Forget the animations, could you at least put the deployed ones back? :(
I'll take care of the setup for the animations if you do that, all I need are the bits involved getting texture space, pretty please? :P
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No. I'm not going to add those pieces back in, as it would basically mean redoing the UV, and of course the textures, all over again. Not going to happen.
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if this means the horrid fire delay when switching weapons will be gone, SUPPORT.
there's really not any point to deploying cannons in space beyond 'COOL IT MOVEZZZZ!!1".
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With the exception of the gun being behind an armor plate untill it's actually selected and thus not as easy to damage.
Not that it's that way in the game though....
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Ah well, if guess if it'll free some an hour or two to let them work on R2 and FSO and whatever, I can... accept that.
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Finished:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0159.png)
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0160.png)
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0162.png)
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0163.png)
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Whoa, the power of optimization.
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Yeah. FPS: 24.
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Yeah. FPS: 24.
Which The_E has already said is meaningless, as his rig sucks and he's running about a zillion things in the background.
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Oh, I know, but it was to ironic to not mention it. Looks good, I can't wait for whole optimized fleet to play without lag :D
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Oh, I know, but it was to ironic to not mention it. Looks good, I can't wait for whole optimized fleet to play without lag :D
Hopefully. It'd be wonderful to have smooth framerates.
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Poop. That would be cool to mess with. :D
Well they're on the version of the Izra'il you have right now. Check it out in Kentauroi Race, I think it's available.
I know they're there now, I meant having animated subobjects on Ship Lab would be cool.
Though I just figured out the conversation was way different from what I was seeing.
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Notice the lack of complaints for the optimized Izra'il because people haven't really seen it in WiH...
That or everyone just gets how important optimization is.
BTW it looks awesome :yes:
I had fun with the Izra'il blowing up **** in Kent race. :D
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Izra'il + Sidhes = cruiser nightmare. I like this new look.
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Yes, that 2/4/4 primary layout will kill stuff veeeeryyyy fast. And you can pack a whole lot of Slammers on that frame.
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I think we're going to need to restrict the Sidhe to the Ainsarii.
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Yes.
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Double post! (Totally justified though)
Next up: The Vajradahara. Also known as "the giant, massively overpowered bomber that makes corvettes run away in fear"
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0177.png)
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0176.png)
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0175.png)
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0174.png)
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It's also the only ship that appears to warp on the ideal fov settings.
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I never got the wing thing in these ships.... I guess aerodynamics in the next centuries are also important factors... in space...
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rule of cool, same as the wings on the FS2 ships
also atmospheric capability
also the same reason there is apparently space friction and subluminal lasers
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subluminal lasers
yay someone is using my awesome phrase
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Also because floating blocks do not look cool.
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Also because floating blocks do not look cool.
The HTL Aeolus begs to differ. :P
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I don't see it that blocky, might be because of the amount of turrets on it.
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Is its chin cannon still animated with ze sliding?
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doubtful
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frowny
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yes :(
but! i think at some point your version (which had it) was in...
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doubtful
You know, the ship is in svn, you could have tested it. Which would have shown you that all the slidy business is fully intact ;)
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Awesome! :D
Can't wait for bomber missions.
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I never got the wing thing in these ships.... I guess aerodynamics in the next centuries are also important factors... in space...
At least some UEF ships have missiles slung under their wings, so they do serve a purpose even in space.
Even in reality wings could serve a real function. The further from the center of mass the manouvering thrusters are, the better. But in reality it would probably be four wings with 90° angles from each other, and the cockpit in the center, much like the Starfury from Babylon 5.
Either that or a ball....
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Also, UEF fighters are atmospheric capable, you should see that in WiH R2.
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Also, UEF fighters are atmospheric capable, you should see that in WiH R2.
Will there be in-atmosphere battles? If so, what will the GTVA use?
(I should have posted this in the What Do You Want in WiH thread...)
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Well... there is that mars installation pic around, so I would be pretty much sure there's gonna be a mission in mars atmosphere.
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Will there be in-atmosphere battles? If so, what will the GTVA use?
Well, canonically, Vasudan cargo containers are atmosphere capable. So they might use those.
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Nothing Dragon has said here should be taken as an indicator of content guaranteed to make it into R2.
The mission outline has been in place since long before R1 was even in beta. Additional content may be added if it adds to the story.
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I believe the GTVA user antigravity canonically.
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Yeah, but its probably cheaper to just stick wings on fighters.
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Yeah, but its probably cheaper to just stick wings on fighters.
Except if the wings weigh the ship down, making their microgravity performance suffer, causing casulty rates amongst the pilots (which are the most expensive component of a single pilot fighter)...
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They won't make microgravity suffer, because even if they weight the ship down, they generate lift which more than compensates for extra weight.
That way, they would improve the survivablity of the pilots, by providing pylons for armament, extra lift and booms for manouvering thrusters.
As for atmo missions and R2, I'm just a texturer, so I don't know what the team is planning, hence why I said that an atmo mission "should" be in R2.
Also, I did not said that it'll be in campaign, it could be a single mission just as well (and propably will be, the mars city assets are just too awesome not to use).
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Well, canonically, Vasudan cargo containers are atmosphere capable. So they might use those.
And we do know that they have proven very effective. :p
According to scouting reports from the 13th Triskaidekaphobes, the GTVA is using cargo containers to ambush key positions throughout this sector. The hit-and-run attacks have unfortunately proven quite successful. We've already lost three cruisers, a corvette, and an entire shipment of Bosch Beer.
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Well, canonically, Vasudan cargo containers are atmosphere capable. So they might use those.
And we do know that they have proven very effective. :p
According to scouting reports from the 13th Triskaidekaphobes, the GTVA is using cargo containers to ambush key positions throughout this sector. The hit-and-run attacks have unfortunately proven quite successful. We've already lost three cruisers, a corvette, and an entire shipment of Bosch Beer.
Exactly what I was thinking of. :D
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From the department of "Was this really necessary?", I bring you these news:
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee460/HLPTheE/screen0199.png)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee460/HLPTheE/screen0198.png)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee460/HLPTheE/screen0195.png)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee460/HLPTheE/screen0194.png)
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There still seems to be weird lighting on the bomber. In the first image on the wings, in the second image on the wings and the upper engines. But it's propably too late to fix.
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Probably just odd smoothing.
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Dear god man, was this REALLY necessary?! :p
Looks good The_E, though it does look like there might be some odd smoothing on the Durga
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Dear god man, was this REALLY necessary?
Hey, Sorry. I just wanted to point out, that i'm surprised that stuff like this still is a problem even with normal maps. Just wrote out my thoughts you know? I didn't mean, that it's bad.
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Dear god man, was this REALLY necessary?
Hey, Sorry. I just wanted to point out, that i'm surprised that stuff like this still is a problem even with normal maps. Just wrote out my thoughts you know? I didn't mean, that it's bad.
Nah he was talking to The_E not you.
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Dear god man, was this REALLY necessary?
Hey, Sorry. I just wanted to point out, that i'm surprised that stuff like this still is a problem even with normal maps. Just wrote out my thoughts you know? I didn't mean, that it's bad.
Smoothing and normal mapping aren't actually related, and you cannot correct errors in one area with fixes in another. Usually, I use a smoothing angle of 22.5 (as seen on the Kent), which works very well for highly angular models. The Durga, however, has a very rounded look, meaning it requires a lot more hand-tweaking than I was able to give it at the time; the final version that will be released in the next WiH update will have those issues fixed.
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Smoothing and normal mapping aren't actually related, and you cannot correct errors in one area with fixes in another.
Really? AFAIK they both are meant to change the normal used for lighting calculations. It depends a bit on the way normal mapping is implemented, but it should be posssible to use the normal map for making flat surfaces smooth or the other way round or even correct smoothing errors.
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Really? AFAIK they both are meant to change the normal used for lighting calculations. It depends a bit on the way normal mapping is implemented, but it should be posssible to use the normal map for making flat surfaces smooth or the other way round or even correct smoothing errors.
True. But it's usually easier to fix smoothing errors by fixing the smoothing. Using normal mapping to generate proper curvatures (like on the cockpit glass) is more trouble than it's worth (IMHO, at least), if it is possible at all, which based on my understanding of the effects, is not the case.
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Double post! Due to popular demands, the slidy business is back!
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0200.png)
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0201.png)
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0202.png)
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/screen0203.png)
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Exceellllent
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HELLS YEAH!
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The normal mapping looks great, I wanna run my face all over it...
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YES! SLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDIIIIIING!
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not to seem demanding, but when can we expect an update to the VP's, im getting some serious fx lag and mouse glitches when there's a lot going on.
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When the Karuna is done.
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The Karuna's getting completely retextured right?
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Yeah.
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An optimized Karuna would be the bee's knees.
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Using normal mapping to generate proper curvatures (like on the cockpit glass) is more trouble than it's worth (IMHO, at least), if it is possible at all, which based on my understanding of the effects, is not the case.
Should be pretty easy with normal map baking? But I haven't tried yet.
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Using normal mapping to generate proper curvatures (like on the cockpit glass) is more trouble than it's worth (IMHO, at least), if it is possible at all, which based on my understanding of the effects, is not the case.
Should be pretty easy with normal map baking? But I haven't tried yet.
Neither have I, and I am not particularly eager to. As I said before, fixing the smoothing directly is easier and less headache-inducing than trying to fix borked smoothing with normal mapping.
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Using normal mapping to generate proper curvatures (like on the cockpit glass) is more trouble than it's worth (IMHO, at least), if it is possible at all, which based on my understanding of the effects, is not the case.
Should be pretty easy with normal map baking? But I haven't tried yet.
dont assume that something is easy if you havent tried.
basically, baking out anything on a model that thas even a single overlapping polygon tends to mess up things badly.
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dont assume that something is easy if you havent tried.
If i had tried i wouldn't have to make assumtions. ^^
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*bump*
I just noticed that the glowmaps for the Uhlan, Kent and Uriel (maybe more?) have an RGB value of 0/2/0 where they are supposed to be black, which gives them a slight green tint ingame (really noticeable in the F3 lab).
I take it this will also be fixed in this optimized new modpack?
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*bump*
I just noticed that the glowmaps for the Uhlan, Kent and Uriel (maybe more?) have an RGB value of 0/2/0 where they are supposed to be black, which gives them a slight green tint ingame (really noticeable in the F3 lab).
I take it this will also be fixed in this optimized new modpack?
The Durga has this problem as well.
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Yes, they're pretty much made from scrath, so there's no such problem.
I wonder how such bug got throught my texture improvement spree early in WiH developement, I'll make sure it won't happen again.