Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => FreeSpace Conversion => Topic started by: Jeff Vader on August 06, 2011, 03:17:16 pm
-
well. yeah, i know that fsport and str are "remakes"
FSPort itself is not a remake. It's a port; it's FS1 stuff that has been changed only so much that it works on the FS2/FSO engine. The ported FS1 campaign, for example, is still the same as it was in FS1 itself; same story, same missions, same voice acting etc. While people say FSPort doesn't quite have the same feel to it as FS1 did, it most certainly isn't a remake, like ST:R was.
-
FSPort doesn't have the same feel because of engine differences that haven't been adressed. Not because of the content. Content that is the one of the original FS1, directly converted.
STR, on the other hand, is an entirely different content than the original ST.
-
Sadly though.. many of those engine differences can't be addressed...
-
A few of them are beneficial, though. For instance, the Interceptor and Hornet can now be used to hit targets smaller than bombers, since they're actually able to turn properly.
Unfortunately, I think it's that same difference that makes "The Hammer and the Anvil" far more difficult than in FS1. :p
-
A few of them are beneficial, though. For instance, the Interceptor and Hornet can now be used to hit targets smaller than bombers, since they're actually able to turn properly.
They could fix that. TBP certainly did. :P
-
They could. But FSPort wouldn't be retail-compatible.
-
Why in God's name would we want them to fix it, though? :p
-
Wut.
Why wouldn't we ? I'd like to play a real FS1 with improved graphics someday. FSPort, as it currently is, fails at this task.
-
My point is that the Interceptor was essentially useless at what was supposed to be its primary function in retail FS1...hell, unless you're straight behind it, even a Basilisk can avoid it with ease. I look on its behavior in the Port as more of a bugfix than anything else.
Now, granted, as I said, it's this same improvement in missile-tracking code that causes some negative issues, like the cargo containers in "The Hammer and the Anvil" being far more vulnerable in the Port version than in the original. But part of me feels like it's worth it just to have what I shoot manage to actually hit its target. :p
-
So since the Prom R was useless in FS2 compared to what it was supposed to be, FSU should beef it, right ?
FSPort is supposed to port FS1 to FSOpen. Whatever gameplay behavior is in FSPort that wasn't in FS1 is technically and by all means a bug. This discussion is moot however, since fixing that requires breaking retail compatibility.
-
They could. But FSPort wouldn't be retail-compatible.
That's not at all the case. If we knew how the code was changed, we could add an AI profiles flag to dumb-down the missiles. It would only be activated in FSO, but it would work, and it would be retail compatible. But I tend to view the missile thing as a bugfix myself, just as Mongoose does. The Interceptor in FSPort has exactly the same stats as the Interceptor in FS1, but the FS2/FSO code makes it work as it's supposed to.
Also, FSPort is a port. We try to get it as close as possible but it's not the original and never will be. If you want the original, go play that instead.
-
Yeah the interceptor went from being my most hated weapon to one of my favorites when I went from retail FS1 into FSport
-
maybe i'm just misremembering an FSPort playthrough as original retail, but i seem to recall the interceptor being the most effective aspect missile, other than the fact that pretty much every other shot was countermeasured immediately and they just took off straight like a dumbfire. they certainly hit a hell of a lot more than hornets, which started to loose effectiveness on anything more maneuverable than a shaitan.
-
Yeah, when I was a kid playing FS1, the Interceptor seemed pretty bomb
-
For some reason, I recall Hornets to be very effective in FS1, against fighters too. Interceptor wasn't useless, but somewhat less effective. I was playing on Easy.
-
For some reason, I recall Hornets to be very effective in FS1, against fighters too. Interceptor wasn't useless, but somewhat less effective. I was playing on Easy.
Hornets and fury was my often preferred mix
-
Never used Hornets. They were pretty useless in FS1 for me.
-
Indeed. They were pretty much just sky decorations for all the good they did.
-
The Interceptor was just better. Hornets usually only scored a couple hits (doing negligible damage) on the faster fighters, if they hit at all.
-
hornets are usefull for capital ships and freighters, also... I must say that the thing that made me fall in love of FS was the fact that I could fire 8 missiles in one single volley.
-
I remember the Interceptor and Hornet being much better in FS1 than they are in the port, and I remember the Hornet being much more effective than the Hornet in FS2, but I assume most of that is biased.
-
I remember almost all of the secondaries being pretty disappointing in the original FreeSpace. Oddly enough, my favorite weapon to use the was the Synaptic. For whatever reason, it always seemed to actually work like it should have. I was originally pretty mad when I bought FS2 because the successor to the Synaptic sucked. When BP: WiH gave us the Slammer, but that's another topic.
This is kind of an interesting argument. I might even venture to say that aspect-seekers were mostly broken in FS1. If the Port fixes them, is it a bad move for being unfaithful, or is it a good thing for providing the functionality that should have been there? Hell if I know, but I prefer having several functional secondaries to choose from.
-
People complain about both sides all the time.
They complain that FSPort isn't enough like FS1.. and they also complain that FSPort hasn't fixed things that were wrong in FS1.. so yeah...
Basically, most of the time I don't know why I put so much work into FSPort since all I get are complaints... But I guess, FSU and SCP deal with the same thing too.
-
The more complaints you get, the better job you're doing. :D
-
Basically, most of the time I don't know why I put so much work into FSPort since all I get are complaints... But I guess, FSU and SCP deal with the same thing too.
You're working in a community. People in a community complain. All the time. I don't get what's so surprising you.
-
Oh! I wasn't complaining, I love the port as it stands right now, I was literally just musing on how the old missiles used to seem. You and the team have done a wonderful job.
-
Basically, most of the time I don't know why I put so much work into FSPort since all I get are complaints... But I guess, FSU and SCP deal with the same thing too.
You're working in a community. People in a community complain. All the time. I don't get what's so surprising you.
It's not surprising, it's just demotivating.
-
I think the isue is that there are two kinds of people who play the Port:
1. People who are nostalgic for "old days" of gaming. They want the Port to just be FS1 on a modern PC, probably right down to the old blurry nebulae things. These are likely a small minority, but a vocal one.
2. People who never played retail FS1 and want the missions to look and feel new; "latest and greatest." These are probably the great majority.
It is unfortunately impossible to satisfy both with the same set of missions as their desires are fundamentally in opposition. The result is lots of complaints no matter what you do.
-
Well.. there IS a way.. I'm just not going to do it all by my lonesome and without a testing team.
Take out ALL the new stuff from FSPort, all mission edits, all ;FSO Version flags, the works. Move all that stuff into the FSPort MVPs including edited mission files. That would solve a lot of debug warnings (even though they are now silenced) and people can have their blurry nebulas back.
The problem is that most of the FSPort team has moved on to other projects and/or RL.
-
I must admit I fail to see how nebulae are relevant to the subject.
-
Yeah, I was thinking about that too -- create a "Nostalgia Pack" and point anyone who complains about changes to that pack. This would only need to be created once and never really looked at again.
The only problem is that the old nebula code was never re enabled for use in FSO -- they'd have to see retail FS2 nebulae and no doubt complain about that. Nebulae are relevant since they work fundamentally differently in FS2 than they did in FS1. I suppose we'd need to figure out how to replicate the old bugged missile behavior too, though.
-
People complain about both sides all the time.
They complain that FSPort isn't enough like FS1.. and they also complain that FSPort hasn't fixed things that were wrong in FS1.. so yeah...
Basically, most of the time I don't know why I put so much work into FSPort since all I get are complaints... But I guess, FSU and SCP deal with the same thing too.
Crap, I hope I didn't come off as a complainer. I think that fixing the functionality of the aspect-seekers was the right choice and the Port is fantastic. It's your project, you do what you want, because haters gonna hate. Some people are just never happy. We need to take the nostalgia goggles off and realize that :v: probably didn't intend to have several nearly-useless secondaries in the game. If I was making a theoretical project, I sure as heck wouldn't create stuff that sucks on purpose.
-
Well.. there IS a way.. I'm just not going to do it all by my lonesome and without a testing team.
Take out ALL the new stuff from FSPort, all mission edits, all ;FSO Version flags, the works. Move all that stuff into the FSPort MVPs including edited mission files. That would solve a lot of debug warnings (even though they are now silenced) and people can have their blurry nebulas back.
The great majority of that is meant to make the FSPort more like FS1 though. If a user had that setup and then ran the Port without the Port MVPs, he'd be missing the old HUD, the old FS1 docking behavior and damage, the proper FS1 promotion and ace debriefings, and a whole lot of additional features I don't care to enumerate right now.
The only problem is that the old nebula code was never re enabled for use in FSO
It occurred to me just now that skyboxes might be able to solve this. Can anyone make a skybox that looks like an old FS1 nebula background?