Sadly... TOR can pretty much be summed up by "Is a standard Bioware story enough to make you put up with what is essentially a mediocre WoW clone gameplaywise.
Having nothing but contempt for the traditional MMO formula and its failings I'll stay in a Galaxy far far away from that one. ;)
Heh...Been playing it for 2 hours now.
Not sold.
Story is better than most (if not all) other MMO's, the quests are better, the presentations is great, the voice acting is great.
BUT
the basic gameplay is WoW clone. You still wait for a guy to re-span after being killed by another player running around. In the part of the story/setting where is jsut doesn't mesh well.
You still go around grinding and doing fetch quests. You still gather pointelss loot. You still have no impact on your characters attributes (only skills)
MEh.
I'm playing trooper too. Unfortunately, the typical mechanics (starting with a broek wooden swrod and grinding your way up to the Ultimate Swords of Awesomeness) don't work well here.
"OH, Welcome seargent! As a new member of the Elite Specs Ops Havoc squad we will now send you into battle armed with this t-shirt and this old musket we nicked fro msome museum. Destroy al lresistance in the enemy vilalge. Good luck!"
The story is the only thing that keeps me playing so far.
It certanly isn't the game mechanics. I hate em.
I'm playing trooper too. Unfortunately, the typical mechanics (starting with a broek wooden swrod and grinding your way up to the Ultimate Swords of Awesomeness) don't work well here.
"OH, Welcome seargent! As a new member of the Elite Specs Ops Havoc squad we will now send you into battle armed with this t-shirt and this old musket we nicked fro msome museum. Destroy al lresistance in the enemy vilalge. Good luck!"
The story is the only thing that keeps me playing so far.
It certanly isn't the game mechanics. I hate em.
Actually, I thought it was a bit of fridge brilliance with the way things turned out. Don't read unless you're done with Ord Mantell.Spoiler:Your CO of Havok squad was actually probably hoping you'd get KIA, since he couldn't be sure what kinda reaction you'd have to the defection. His exasperation when you confront him is basically a "Good god why aren't you dead yet?" Sending you to do incredibly dangerous stuff solo with almost no tactical support isn't usually something that happens in the military unless someone's trying to make you dead.
Wow is a "mess" machanics-wise now too.
All MMO's but EVE follow the same stale underlying formula... I yearn for the day it gets broken.
The ones that broke it all failed, just FYI.
They didn't, they were really quite charming, and some, amazingly brilliant games, but they just didn't take off, or get sustainable subscriptions.
You do, but millions of others obviously don't.The ones that broke it all failed, just FYI.
Then they broke it in the wrong way....
there's a reason I avoid MMO's like a plauge.
I haven't looked to see what TORs payment scheme will be, but honestly, when playing an MMORPG I have ALWAYS spent far, far, far less on games and not noticed it (until I realise I have an extra 600+GBP in my bank :P), over the course of the years that I've been playing them.
It's funny - everyone likes to complain about the subscription fees, but really. I dare you to find me better entertainment for the value. It's not easy. People have no problem paying $10 at a theater to see a 2 hour movie, but getting 50 hours a month out of an MMO (and that would be a pretty casual playing schedule) is bad?
Never understood it. MMOs are one of the least expensive hobbies one could possibly have.
It's funny - everyone likes to complain about the subscription fees, but really. I dare you to find me better entertainment for the value. It's not easy. People have no problem paying $10 at a theater to see a 2 hour movie, but getting 50 hours a month out of an MMO (and that would be a pretty casual playing schedule) is bad?
Never understood it. MMOs are one of the least expensive hobbies one could possibly have.
That's easy.
Want a list or maybe I can PM you a powerpoint slideshow?
Adn yeah..with games like Skyrim, Minecraft, FS, and many FP?s-es....who need monthly fees?
Personally, I think it's strange to pay someone so that you can have a second job.
FS only lasted this long cuz of multi and then mods.
Adn yeah..with games like Skyrim, Minecraft, FS, and many FP?s-es....who need monthly fees?
Very few of them will come even remotely close to the GBP/Hour that WoW or Neocron got for me.
My final wow /played was insane.. considering I was close to 1 year before TBC came out.. :P
Very few of them will come even remotely close to the GBP/Hour that WoW or Neocron got for me.
My final wow /played was insane.. considering I was close to 1 year before TBC came out.. :P
Insane is how much repetition and how little unique content (in comparison) that time played means in WoW/MMOs in general.
Imagine you had spent your subscription fee on other games: The amount of unique gameplay experiences and storylines that you missed out in favor of the huge amounts of drudgery and repetition found in WoW, is truly mindboggling, if you ever stop to think about it.
That's easy.
Want a list or maybe I can PM you a powerpoint slideshow?
Adn yeah..with games like Skyrim, Minecraft, FS, and many FP?s-es....who need monthly fees?
Okay, okay, for the truly pedantic, I know there are plenty of things to do that don't cost anything. My point was that it's just silly to complain about subscription fees. Most peoples' hobbies are much more expensive. I like to play casual pick-up ice hockey games...it's probably an order of magnitude more expensive than playing an MMO. Safety equipment's a *****.
I just wish people would just come out and say MMOs aren't their thing instead of pretending that the subscription is ruining a good game for them or something. It's disingenuous.
And you're forgetting about the most important part of an MMO - the middle M. I played WoW for four years because I was in an awesome guild with awesome people who enriched the game experience for me.[/b]
If you use your imagination, the repetition goes down. Sick of the raid dungeon? Try doing it drunk, or without pants (in the game, IN THE GAME).
FS only lasted this long cuz of multi and then mods.
Adn yeah..with games like Skyrim, Minecraft, FS, and many FP?s-es....who need monthly fees?
Skyrim lasted 100 hours.
Minecraft isn't my kinda thing.
Battlefield 3 is probably a noteworthy exception... ...but generally...
Very few of them will come even remotely close to the GBP/Hour that WoW or Neocron got for me.
Actually flinging **** is fun because the looks people give you when you fling **** at them, 'cause they're not expecting to be walking to work or whatever and have someone come out of McDonalds or something and fling **** at them. It's absolutely delightful.
It's only drudgery and repetition if you think it is. And you're forgetting about the most important part of an MMO - the middle M. I played WoW for four years because I was in an awesome guild with awesome people who enriched the game experience for me.
You can flig s*** with a bunch of good freinds and it will be fun. It's not fun because of the s*** flinging activity, it's fun because of the friends. And you can get friends outside of MMO's too.
And none will close to the money you spent.Like this. I've got two different quotes in my post, *****.
That toal time spent could have been easily distributed between multiple different game, offering multiple different experiences - for the same (if not lesser) cost.
Coop gaming?
What the actual ****.
Coop is boring as balls, you play through once, or twice, get all the stupid little achievements and work out the crappy gimmicks (in 5 minutes) that are 'designed to keep your attention (for x hours)' and then you're done. gimme TvT objective based, team-work required combat.
MMOs are far from dead.
If a game ever manages to recreate what I had in Neocron without being MMO, I'll accept your bull, until then, just shut up. You could not be more wrong.
You're projecting.
And replacing one kind of grind with another.
Coops do not last long enough to be worth money, and while they don't generally have repetitive content they are typically quite similar to dungeons and raids in MMOs.
I was talking more like Battlefield games, or perhaps even Battlegrounds in games like WoW.
Coop is terribad, and I have never found an exception beyond games like Time Crisis.
Trine 2 is going to be much the same as failicka.
How about everyone in here stop arguing their opinion on different style and formats of games as if they were undeniable fact and we all go back to enjoying whatever the **** it is we enjoy, hmmm?Seriously. QD, you like MMOs, that's absolutely fantastic. Mikes, you like co-op games, power to ya. Trashman, you like being Trashman, which I'd compliment if I were a liar.
Let's all get back to business and back to the topic at hand, being ToR, instead of bickering over game genre taste.
Portal 2 wasn't hard enough, was done in one sitting, magicka was the same gameplay as any basic 10+ year old mmo from before full 3D MMOs , Saints Row 3 I haven't tried yet in fairness, Trine 2 is going to be much the same as failicka.
You are spouting pointless stereotypical comments from an obviously uneducated or inexperienced view point, because MMOs can, and do have EVERYTHING any normal game has, and then more often than not include it in a social context.
How about everyone in here stop arguing their opinion on different style and formats of games as if they were undeniable fact and we all go back to enjoying whatever the **** it is we enjoy, hmmm?Seriously. QD, you like MMOs, that's absolutely fantastic. Mikes, you like co-op games, power to ya. Trashman, you like being Trashman, which I'd compliment if I were a liar.
Let's all get back to business and back to the topic at hand, being ToR, instead of bickering over game genre taste.
Nope, it's terribad. Same game play as any crappy dungeon crawler with a few gimmicks (that honestly, detract from the experience after the novelty wears off) and some movie references (which were appreciated but gets old so damn fast).Portal 2 wasn't hard enough, was done in one sitting, magicka was the same gameplay as any basic 10+ year old mmo from before full 3D MMOs , Saints Row 3 I haven't tried yet in fairness, Trine 2 is going to be much the same as failicka.
Let's say you might want to analyze gameplay a little bit more.
Heh, you really wanna compare gaming experience to me..?You are spouting pointless stereotypical comments from an obviously uneducated or inexperienced view point, because MMOs can, and do have EVERYTHING any normal game has, and then more often than not include it in a social context.
Everything a normal game has?;) How long do you think WoW would last if they took the rewards away, mh?
Frankly... they have literally nothing that makes them worth playing (certainly not for as long as people keep playing)... other than the hooks of achievement and peer pressure.
With MMO's it's not the actual (repetitive, simplistic) gameplay, but the metagameplay, that gets people hooked... and the Meta is sadly still more or less the same as this: http://progressquest.com/.
The much lauded "social context" ironically also provides the reinforcement mechanisms.
How long would almost all of the current MMO's last if they had to compete on the merits of the actual gameplay experience?
Ask yourself honestly.
As for that lame comment about my "credentials"... I doubt many people have more MMO experience under their belt... as there were quite few MMOs before Everquest's release and boy I did play quite heavily, not just EQ but much of what came after. Take it from someone who's been there and who's seen the same thing in many fellow players over the years... most educated people with some rudimentary psychology knowledge eventually wake up to what MMO's are and how they work.
To be fair though... MMO's are not the worst (not by a long shot) exploitive game around anymore. That honor goes to the more recent webbased "social games" like Farmville, where gameplay takes yet another nosedive in favor of achievement and peer pressure. Same basic idea though: You use reward schemes / operant conditioning to get away with (cheaply) producing lots of repetitive low quality content to keep people playing (and paying.)
It's more that I like "gaming" in general, but find that (traditional/typical) MMO's violate the very premise of good gameplay for above mentioned reasons.
As far as TOR goes I was simply hugely disappointed that Bioware still copied the same old paradigm with all its flaws.
They bolted a story onto it, true enough, and that may to some degree be a saving grace... if you could enjoy the story on it's own merits without dealing with the rotten MMO core beneath... yet somehow I doubt you will be able to. The whole point of MMO mechanics is to stretch out the content that you do have to take as long as possible to consume.
Not that I am misunderstood: I do not dislike the idea of MMOs in general. The contrary actually... I find games with huge communities and the possibility of social interaction hugely appealing. What i loathe is what passes as gameplay in current mainstream MMOs: i.e. using applied behavorism as a substitute for quality content. Worse, as far as gameplay goes the genre has become so utterly stagnant that it almost feels like dealing with the same game in a different "skin" everytime a new MMO gets released.
To my knowledge there is only one company trying to do anything different at this stage, Arena Net with Guildwars 2, and I'll buy their game on grounds of supporting innovation - even if I end up disliking that as well.
My folly is this... for about 20 years I have looked for a "massively multiplayer online (roleplaying) game" that is "worth playing" together with my friends - on merits of gameplay - and none of us have found it.
What we did find is the same greedy exploitive gameplay mechanic in pretty much everything that calls itself "MMO" these days.... and, thankfully, a world of non - MMO multiplayer games very much worth playing together. ;)
Coop gaming?
What the actual ****.
Coop is boring as balls, you play through once, or twice, get all the stupid little achievements and work out the crappy gimmicks (in 5 minutes) that are 'designed to keep your attention (for x hours)' and then you're done. gimme TvT objective based, team-work required combat.
MMOs are far from dead.
If a game ever manages to recreate what I had in Neocron without being MMO, I'll accept your bull, until then, just shut up. You could not be more wrong.
MMO's are for tools. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.Mmmmm, delicious irony.
MMO's are for tools. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.Mmmmm, delicious irony.
Either way if you guys can't cool it, keep your opinions civilized, and reframe from flaming each other like a bunch of wee kids, I think this deserves a split lock.
I thought it was fairly well balanced, even if it had me staring more at my global cooldown indicator than at the thing I was killing.