Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: BlueFlames on April 07, 2012, 01:59:03 am
-
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/fallout
Naught.
Zero.
Nil.
If you've not yet played the original Fallout, you now have the perfect opportunity to resolve this flaw in your character.
$5.99, because you missed your opportunity to get it for free, dummy.
Speaking of characters dummies, I'm going to roll up a new one and return to the hunt for that damned water chip.
[edit] ...and I'm going hardcore this time. No small guns. No smooth talking. I will ride a wave of knives, explosives, and miniguns to success or defeat in this playthrough. I've already emptied the starting pistol of ammo and traded the shells away in Shady Sands for caps, stimpacks, and just enough rope to hang myself with. [/edit]
[edit 2] Updated to reflect the deal ending. [/edit 2]
-
I'm not sure if/when I'll ever play it, but I threw it on the account anyway, because c'mon, it's Fallout.
-
I'm not sure if/when I'll ever play it, but I threw it on the account anyway, because c'mon, it's Fallout.
This.
Thanks for the heads up BlueFlames. Someday I shall resolve this flaw in my character.
-
During that Two for One deal they had a long time ago, I picked up Fallout 2 alongside Freespace 2 instead of this. And now... I have this
Time to die mutant bastards
-
I just wish they could retrofit some newer features into the game. I mean, having to pick-pocket/barter with your party members to change their gear? C'mon!! :lol:
-
Got the original Fallout during the Christmas sale, and now I wish I had gotten 2 instead.... :/
-
Ha! I still have the original CD from 1998 flying around. The first two are so much better than the 3D-abominations. NV was a good game but still way behind the first two.
-
It's apparently back up to $6 again.
/me is glad he jumped on that immediately.
-
I missed it... Booooooh :(
But i already own two copies :yes: Yaaaaay!
Original Dogmeat.
I bloody miss you so much :sobsobsob:
-
Original Dogmeat.
I bloody miss you so much :sobsobsob:
He took that rocket to the snout like a champ, though. We all miss Dogmeat[shield].
-
So glad I jumped on this
Nice find Flame
Also, I don't see what's so wrong with Fallout 3/NV T-LoW
They just updated the game to suit current demands
-
I honestly think I'd be more interested in playing the newer games, because pure hardcore turn-based combat systems are something that is at least some degree of turn-off for me. But we'll see how things go if I ever decide to sit down and play this.
-
is that how this game is? i'm not completely opposed to that, but it's not my usual cup of tea. i've never really looked into it, but i thought fallout was a FPS with item collection and whatnot RPG elements. still, if i am to ever play the new ones, my OCD demands that i play the series in its entirety, in order.
-
Yep. The Fallout games were originally isometric turn-based RPG's before Bethesda got to them.
-
Not like they were going anywhere anyhow
I mean come on, it's Interplay we're talking about here
-
i thought fallout was a FPS with item collection and whatnot RPG elements
Only Fallout 3 and New Vegas are like that. Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics are isometric and turn based games. Unlike Baldur's Gate which was practically turn-based mechanism with real-time gameplay and pause feature, Fallout was purely turn-based. Tactics is not a sequel but set in same world as the others.
-
I've had Fallout on the laptop for months, but no time to really play it. Working on it though.
-
I'd list Fallout 3 and New Vegas in my top 10 favorite games of all time, with Wanderer's Edition installed for the former and Project Nevada installed for the latter.
I borrowed Fallout Trilogy from a friend (Fallout, Fallout 2, and Fallout Tactics: BoS) and am planning on playing through Fallout 2 during the 32 hours of bus travel I'll be having in a couple weeks.
-
just started playing. eh. alright i guess. the main thing keeping me going now is overwhelming boredom and the assumption the game will start getting better.
i was however reminded that games of this era didn't include any sort of autosave. :banghead:
-
Real men always save manually.
:D
-
Real men always save manually.
:D
anyone remember level codes?
-
man i suck at this.
-
man i suck at this.
I came to that very conclusion about a week and a half ago. Turn-based games were never my strong point, and this one has been progressively kicking my ass.
-
Real men always save manually.
:D
anyone remember level codes?
hMT?8A?,INwbg3AU 4IUx0PhA
-
man i suck at this.
I came to that very conclusion about a week and a half ago. Turn-based games were never my strong point, and this one has been progressively kicking my ass.
Fallout games also tended to have a rather tough early game, especially for new players who don't know which skills and stats are more useful than others. You would basically get dumped into the wasteland with a disturbingly high amount of *nothing*, making random encounters and quests that requires killing unforgiving.
Once you hit lvl 6 or 7 however, things are usually starting to get fun.
-
Real men always save manually.
:D
anyone remember level codes?
hMT?8A?,INwbg3AU 4IUx0PhA
:D
-
That's the sort of thing that worries me about playing a game like Fallout today...people who loved them back then will probably shrug off a lot of stuff as, "These were games for real gamers," but I'd look at the same elements and think, "Man, there were some truly awful trends in game design back then, and thank God we've largely moved past them." I've run into similar sentiments during my current first-time playthrough of Final Fantasy VI. I don't mind games being challenging, but when the fundamental mechanics are completely obfuscated without using an external guide or experimenting for hours, and the gameplay actively punishes the player for little reason, I have some issues.
-
That's the sort of thing that worries me about playing a game like Fallout today...people who loved them back then will probably shrug off a lot of stuff as, "These were games for real gamers," but I'd look at the same elements and think, "Man, there were some truly awful trends in game design back then, and thank God we've largely moved past them." I've run into similar sentiments during my current first-time playthrough of Final Fantasy VI. I don't mind games being challenging, but when the fundamental mechanics are completely obfuscated without using an external guide or experimenting for hours, and the gameplay actively punishes the player for little reason, I have some issues.
I don't recall Fallout doing either of those. 0.o
-
I don't have personal experience, but X3N0's post seemed to suggest that it's the sort of game where getting started is a real bear unless you're checking out GameFAQs or go through some major trial-and-error. Maybe it's not quite so bad, though.
-
I don't have personal experience, but X3N0's post seemed to suggest that it's the sort of game where getting started is a real bear unless you're checking out GameFAQs or go through some major trial-and-error. Maybe it's not quite so bad, though.
Having to learn a game is not necessarily bad design. Just sayin'.
-
I don't have personal experience, but X3N0's post seemed to suggest that it's the sort of game where getting started is a real bear unless you're checking out GameFAQs or go through some major trial-and-error. Maybe it's not quite so bad, though.
Having to learn a game is not necessarily bad design. Just sayin'.
Having to learn a game through trial and error because it tells you nothing and gives you no opportunity to learn anything certainly qualifies though. In Fallout, the only way to learn what works and what doesn't is to die repeatedly or look it up somewhere else. That's not good game design.
Fortunately, I think the quality of the content gets past that, but I won't sugarcoat it and say that the beginning of the game is user friendly.
-
Games used to have manuals which you'd pore over a bit before playing.
-
Games you get on Steam don't come with manuals to pore over.
-
Games you get on Steam don't come with manuals to pore over.
What does that have to do with anything? A, Fallout was not designed with Steam in mind, and B, many Steam cames actually do come with manuals; right click and you'll see a 'view player manual' option.
Nonsensical and factually incorrect.
-
Fallout is not one of the games that comes with a manual. Nor does it come with anything besides the game itself.
Fallout was also apparently designed without any consideration as to whether the manual would be able to stay with the game, because it offers no equivalent, no tutorial, and in-game help whatsoever, regardless of any want the player might have for it. I'm not about to say that it's a bad game because of it. Quite the opposite, it's a very good game.
I just happen to think that the lack of any kind of tutorial or help of any kind whatsoever aside from the manual that is easily lost/misplaced/not present if you buy it second hand is a bad design characteristic and shouldn't be considered anything but.
-
Fallout is not one of the games that comes with a manual. Nor does it come with anything besides the game itself.
Fallout was also apparently designed without any consideration as to whether the manual would be able to stay with the game, because it offers no equivalent, no tutorial, and in-game help whatsoever, regardless of any want the player might have for it. I'm not about to say that it's a bad game because of it. Quite the opposite, it's a very good game.
I just happen to think that the lack of any kind of tutorial or help of any kind whatsoever aside from the manual that is easily lost/misplaced/not present if you buy it second hand is a bad design characteristic and shouldn't be considered anything but.
What else did you read in the 10+ minutes it took to install a game? And i dont know about you but i didnt loose that many manuals back in the day, most of the time you needed them for a CD key or "what is the 3rd word on the 5th page questions" to validate your copy, so you looked after them.
The rage now is over the inconvenience of a game not taking into account an evolved retail model that was impossible 14 years ago when the game was released is irrelevant to the business model of the time that a game had about 2-5 year life expectancy before everyone moved on.
-
Games used to have manuals which you'd pore over a bit before playing.
Of course, and I nearly wore out the manuals for games like Descent from reading them so much. I'm sure the original Fallout had a lovely thick physical manual as well. Whether or not the Steam copy happens to have manual access doesn't really affect my point either way, as I'd assert that the overall concept of needing to peruse a manual before playing a game is an outdated one...not just because the manual might get separated from the game, but mostly because it's an immediate immersion-killer, an up-front barrier to entry that could be handled much more elegantly by in-game means. It reminds me of those times when you're trying to play a new board game and have to spend a good 10 or 15 minutes poring through the instruction sheet to figure out how the hell to play it...sometimes, by the end, the game barely seems worth playing anymore.
More importantly, though, there are often critical portions of games that manuals just wouldn't cover. Sure, they'll go through how the menus work, and all of the various controls and functions, and maybe some general strategies and tips, but they're not going to clue you in on some of the more involved stuff. I know a bit about Fallout, enough to know that how you distribute your initial stats greatly affects how the game unfolds, and that not putting enough towards intelligence can be a real pain in the ass. That's probably something a manual wouldn't get into, so you'd either have to figure it out the hard way by creating a dumb-as-a-log character, or have someone else tell you as much. Maybe the prime example I've ever heard about is from recent entries in the Pokemon series, where there's apparently this whole crazy system of bonuses and statistics that's almost completely hidden and never explicitly referenced in-game. Obviously that's an extreme case, but I've definitely played multiple games over my life that made me fall victim to, as TV Tropes would put it, Guide Dang It moments.
-
I just happen to think that the lack of any kind of tutorial or help of any kind whatsoever aside from the manual that is easily lost/misplaced/not present if you buy it second hand is a bad design characteristic and shouldn't be considered anything but.
On the Contrare, I think it could be considered as an asset. The lack of a in-depth manual or tutorial helps preset the mood of the Fallout character: You have barely an idea what's going on, and you have absolutely no experience with the "outside" before.
Thus, while your playing the game for the first time, you see the Fallout universe in the perspective as your rather noob character, giving an element of immersion of its own.
BTW, the first Fallout gave the Diplomat character a fighting chance, while Fallout 2 made the Tank character the only real chance of surviving combat past the Den. I have yet to complete Fallout 2 with a stock character. :(
Oh, how many of you remember your random encounters? I remember the stealth-boy vs. T-Rex in Fallout 1 and The Bridge of Death in Fallout 2. :D
-
I just happen to think that the lack of any kind of tutorial or help of any kind whatsoever aside from the manual that is easily lost/misplaced/not present if you buy it second hand is a bad design characteristic and shouldn't be considered anything but.
On the Contrare, I think it could be considered as an asset. The lack of a in-depth manual or tutorial helps preset the mood of the Fallout character: You have barely an idea what's going on, and you have absolutely no experience with the "outside" before.
Thus, while your playing the game for the first time, you see the Fallout universe in the perspective as your rather noob character, giving an element of immersion of its own.
Similarly, when you die less than fifty meters outside your Vault because the Random Event maker decided you need to fight a pack of mole rats before you get anything more substantial than a 10 mm pistol, you die. Which immediately kills all immersion as you either recreate a character because you've been playing for ~15 minutes or you navigate the save menu because you've died that way already.
-
Well, it's a game. If things aren't going your way, your either obviously not doing something right or have the difficulty too hard.
Plus, it goes to show that running away and screaming like a little girl is not always an option in the wasteland. It's Plan B. :lol:
-
I just happen to think that the lack of any kind of tutorial or help of any kind whatsoever aside from the manual that is easily lost/misplaced/not present if you buy it second hand is a bad design characteristic and shouldn't be considered anything but.
On the Contrare, I think it could be considered as an asset. The lack of a in-depth manual or tutorial helps preset the mood of the Fallout character: You have barely an idea what's going on, and you have absolutely no experience with the "outside" before.
Thus, while your playing the game for the first time, you see the Fallout universe in the perspective as your rather noob character, giving an element of immersion of its own.
Similarly, when you die less than fifty meters outside your Vault because the Random Event maker decided you need to fight a pack of mole rats before you get anything more substantial than a 10 mm pistol, you die. Which immediately kills all immersion as you either recreate a character because you've been playing for ~15 minutes or you navigate the save menu because you've died that way already.
you shouldn't be getting mole rats until you enter the abandoned vault, which is full of them, you need to divert into the village you see en route and look for some additional kit.
-
Similarly, when you die less than fifty meters outside your Vault because the Random Event maker decided you need to fight a pack of mole rats before you get anything more substantial than a 10 mm pistol, you die. Which immediately kills all immersion as you either recreate a character because you've been playing for ~15 minutes or you navigate the save menu because you've died that way already.
you shouldn't be getting mole rats until you enter the abandoned vault, which is full of them, you need to divert into the village you see en route and look for some additional kit.
Random Encounters sometimes think otherwise. :(
-
Having to learn a game through trial and error because it tells you nothing and gives you no opportunity to learn anything certainly qualifies though. In Fallout, the only way to learn what works and what doesn't is to die repeatedly or look it up somewhere else. That's not good game design.
Fortunately, I think the quality of the content gets past that, but I won't sugarcoat it and say that the beginning of the game is user friendly.
I wouldn't call it user-unfriendly either. I never had trouble with the game start. It's not easy, but it's hardly unintuitive. There's descriptions of stats, skills and perks, and it doesn't take a genious to prioritize.
Given that games of today spoon-feed you everything, I see how not having everything told to you at hte very start may seem harsh.
-
Having to learn a game through trial and error because it tells you nothing and gives you no opportunity to learn anything certainly qualifies though. In Fallout, the only way to learn what works and what doesn't is to die repeatedly or look it up somewhere else. That's not good game design.
Fortunately, I think the quality of the content gets past that, but I won't sugarcoat it and say that the beginning of the game is user friendly.
I wouldn't call it user-unfriendly either. I never had trouble with the game start. It's not easy, but it's hardly unintuitive. There's descriptions of stats, skills and perks, and it doesn't take a genious to prioritize.
Given that games of today spoon-feed you everything, I see how not having everything told to you at hte very start may seem harsh.
Elite should be fun then ;)
-
the GOG installer gives you the manual. it's fkin 147 pages long though. i don't want to read ALL that before i start playing. i got to the part where it walked you through getting out of the first cave, and then went off talking about character stats, i think it was. the manual is alright, and the in-game stats screens do pretty well at describing things, but i still feel like i've got very little grasp on the actual gameplay mechanics. so the gun says it does 5-12 (or something like that) damage. why did i hit something and do 3 damage? why did i get a "critical hit" and do ONE damage? i've got incredibly high "unarmed" skill, does that mean i'm better off with my fists than with a knife or brass knuckles? what the eff is armor class and what is it doing for me? i couldn't tell the difference between 7 and 25. and what the hell are all these items supposed to do? how does resting work vs. first aid vs. doctor? so i accidentally started a fight, how do i get out of it without having to kill the entire raider camp? and why does my wingman go running headlong into a group of 4 of them and die in 2 turns, even though i thought i told him to stay close? how do i outfit him anyway? CAN i outfit him? etc.
that stuff aside, the interface and controls i find to be a bit clumsy. not a surprise for a game this old though.
-
I am sorry if this is insulting but, how many RPG's have you player, eg Bauldors gate, Ice Wind Dale, and that sort of character sheet roll of the dice games?
-
Of course, and I nearly wore out the manuals for games like Descent from reading them so much. I'm sure the original Fallout had a lovely thick physical manual as well. Whether or not the Steam copy happens to have manual access doesn't really affect my point either way, as I'd assert that the overall concept of needing to peruse a manual before playing a game is an outdated one...not just because the manual might get separated from the game, but mostly because it's an immediate immersion-killer, an up-front barrier to entry that could be handled much more elegantly by in-game means. It reminds me of those times when you're trying to play a new board game and have to spend a good 10 or 15 minutes poring through the instruction sheet to figure out how the hell to play it...sometimes, by the end, the game barely seems worth playing anymore.
I, on the contrary, like the manual intro a lot more than in-game intro, this depends completely on person - I find the book intro more fascinating because it's my imagination doing all the work. I do have the Fallout manual (the game mechanics and basically an intro section is described quite well in it), and loved reading through it, it even included a nuclear explosion effect tables up to 40 kms away! I don't remember the beginning of the game being that hard, though I think I did die a couple of first times in the random events. So nothing too bad compared to some ridiculously hard games of that era. But I do believe that the Fallout's random encounter generator might be working too often with modern computers.
Strike Eagle III had a printed booklet of 200 pages of instructions, Falcon Gold package has several books describing all war theaters, basic flying tactics, descriptions of all airplanes etc. Those were quite a fascinating read. And I won't even start talking about Falcon 4:AF's 700+ pages long manual.
the GOG installer gives you the manual. it's fkin 147 pages long though. i don't want to read ALL that before i start playing. i got to the part where it walked you through getting out of the first cave, and then went off talking about character stats, i think it was. the manual is alright, and the in-game stats screens do pretty well at describing things, but i still feel like i've got very little grasp on the actual gameplay mechanics. so the gun says it does 5-12 (or something like that) damage. why did i hit something and do 3 damage? why did i get a "critical hit" and do ONE damage? i've got incredibly high "unarmed" skill, does that mean i'm better off with my fists than with a knife or brass knuckles? what the eff is armor class and what is it doing for me? i couldn't tell the difference between 7 and 25. and what the hell are all these items supposed to do? how does resting work vs. first aid vs. doctor? so i accidentally started a fight, how do i get out of it without having to kill the entire raider camp? and why does my wingman go running headlong into a group of 4 of them and die in 2 turns, even though i thought i told him to stay close? how do i outfit him anyway? CAN i outfit him? etc.
that stuff aside, the interface and controls i find to be a bit clumsy. not a surprise for a game this old though.
* If I recall right, 5-12 is the possible damage that weapon could inflict. If somebody wears an armor, that absorbs the impact partially, I don't exactly remember the mechanics for that, but higher armor class = better and allows the possibility of receiving no damage.
* Dexterity stat had something to do with enemy possibly missing the shot too.
* Skills describe how good you are at doing something; high unarmed means you have a better chance of hitting somebody, but the damage is determined otherwise (strength stat and the equipment IIRC).
* Fallout allows even zero damage criticals, usually resulting that enemy misses his turn and possibly affecting his stats too (wait till you see a critical with a rifle...).
* Criticals tend to affect the stats until a doctor is seen.
* You get out of the fight by walking over the edge area of the map. But I don't see why I should be telling you since the manual tells all this.
What is not said in the manual is that the stats are more important than perks and that game offers no possibilities of improving your stats - unless you do Mentats or other temporary bonus stuff.
-
I am sorry if this is insulting but, how many RPG's have you player, eg Bauldors gate, Ice Wind Dale, and that sort of character sheet roll of the dice games?
none. this is new territory to me. and i understand that and expected to have a learning curve to go through. but i'd say that requiring the player to already be familiar with such things is poor design. like others mentioned before, i haven't found a way to learn these things other than searching the internet for it. i don't like that game mechanics that i should understand in order to be able to play the game well are pretty well hidden. maybe it does explain in the rest of the manual i haven't read yet. that would be cool.
-
fair enough, short version
AC = Armour Class = ability to resist damage
damage 5-15 = damage before modifiers like armour
-
what the eff is armor class and what is it doing for me?
I am never responding to any of your comments on games, ever again. No offense intended.
-
1) so the gun says it does 5-12 (or something like that) damage. why did i hit something and do 3 damage?
2) why did i get a "critical hit" and do ONE damage?
3) i've got incredibly high "unarmed" skill, does that mean i'm better off with my fists than with a knife or brass knuckles?
4) what the eff is armor class and what is it doing for me? i couldn't tell the difference between 7 and 25.
5) and what the hell are all these items supposed to do?
6) how does resting work vs. first aid vs. doctor?
7) so i accidentally started a fight, how do i get out of it without having to kill the entire raider camp?
8) and why does my wingman go running headlong into a group of 4 of them and die in 2 turns, even though i thought i told him to stay close?
9) how do i outfit him anyway? CAN i outfit him?
10) etc.
Note: As I answer these questions, I'm going to be indicating whether or not the information can be found in the manual and/or in-game. I'm not trying to be condescending, but as the quality of the in- and out-of-game documentation as in question, it seems worth noting.
1 & 2) Your gun's base damage, per shot, is 5 - 12. This does not reflect effects that adjust damage to the target, like the target's armor. Armor, in Fallout, has a threshold, and a percentage reduction. For example, against normal damage, a piece of armor might be rated 4/15%. In that example, a hit from your 5 - 12 damage pistol is knocked down to 1 - 8 damage by the threshold, and reduced another 15% to a minimum of one from there. A zero damage hit would result from the threshold being higher than the damage roll from that hit. The percentage reduction can only reduce the hit's damage to one. As to your one-damage critical, your gun's damage roll came out such that, after the threshold and percentage reductions, only one point of damage got through. (This is explained both in the manual and to a lesser extent on the character screen.)
3) In Fallout, your weapon skill affects your likelihood to hit and, in the case of guns and thrown weapons, the effective range. If you focus on your unarmed skill, you will be able to frequently hit with punching weapons, such as your fists, brass knuckles, and spiked knuckles. (This is explained both in the manual and on the character screen.)
4) Armor class is an indication of your ability to avoid being hit altogether. The number is an abstraction, not a direct percentage chance of avoiding a hit, but higher is definately better. (This is explained both in the manual and on the character screen.)
5) In your inventory, hold the right mouse down, and move the mouse up/down, until the binoculars are highlighted. Upon releasing the mouse button, the item description will open in the info panel. (This is explained in the manual.)
6) First Aid is a skill check that, when successful heals a small amount of damage. It takes time, regardless of success. Doctor is a skill check that functions similarly, except that it heals more damage and can repair wounded limbs. First Aid and Doctor can be used three times each between periods of rest. Rest heals hit point damage at a rate based on your Endurance stat. Depending on how skilled in First Aid and/or Doctor you are, resting will generally take more in-game time than healing via those skills. If you're not highly skilled with First Aid/Doctor, though, then the time eaten up by failed checks can make resting the faster means of healing. (This is explained in the manual and in-game.)
7) You can escape a fight by fleeing the map. If it's a big map, and you can manage to get outside of all enemies' awareness, before leaving the map, you can try the end combat button, below the end turn button, but be aware that most enemies will keep searching for you, once combat is ended. Generally speaking, the fight will resume, if you are found or return to the area. Random encounters don't plop a location down on the map, though, so if you flee a random encounter, you don't need to worry about getting jumped by the same group of enemies over and over again in that specific spot. (The end combat button is discussed in the manual. Fleeing the area you're supposed to be able to deduce on your own.)
8) Indicating to party members that you want them to stay close only affects their following distance out of combat. The combat AI for NPCs is pretty simplistic. The combat AI for allies is the same as the one for enemies, but your enemies have a bit of a numbers advantage, so the headlong rush is typically more effective and sensible for them than your allies. (Allies are not addressed in the game's documentation.)
9) In Fallout 1, you can barter with your AI allies to provide them with better equipment. When combat starts, they'll select the best weapon and armor in their possession that they're capable of using. (Allies are not addressed in the game's documentation. As a side-note, Fallout 2 is a little more fully-featured, with regards to allies. In the sequel, bartering to swap out equipment is no longer necessary, and there's more robust behavior controls.)
10) You'll have to be more specific. :P
[edit]
On the subject of in-game tutorials, Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 provide an object lesson in no tutorial being better than a bad tutorial. The Temple of Trials is the tutorial stage of Fallout 2, and it's a giant pain in the ass. In a game that allowed for a surprising number of diplomatic solutions, the Temple of Trials was almost solely focused on combat that could not be bypassed. In a game that strongly favored the use of firearms, the Temple of Trials only made unarmed and melee class weapons available. A character well-built for the Temple of Trials would have trouble with much of the rest of the game due to the poor selection of unarmed and melee weapons, until the mid-late/late-late game, and a character well-built for the rest of the game will have a very tough time in the Temple of Trials, due to the lack of weapons more advanced than knives and spears or any means of bypassing most of the combat encounters.
Fallout, like most RPGs of its era, came with an exhaustive manual and expected you to read it or keep it around to reference, should you have questions like the ones above. That being said, it's not impossible or even all that difficult to learn the basics of the game without that documentation. I originally picked up Fallout and its sequel as a dual-jewel bundle that Interplay released, many moons ago, without any supporting documentation included. There's ample in-game information by which to learn the game, even though it isn't presented as a tutorial. You just have to make a point to read it, as it's presented. If there's something on the character generation screen that leaves you wondering, click on it, and read the info-box. If something about combat leaves you wondering, look at your own character's stats, and you can probably figure out what's going on upon closer inspection.
Now, Fallout's difficulty curve may come across as harsh, but that's a separate issue. It's true that the random encounter system pulls no punches, particularly in the early game, and particularly if you've a low outdoorsman skill. You're not meant to win every fight that the random encounter system can throw at you, early on. Most of those possible encounters, though, involve enemies that must close to melee range before attacking, and unless you've deliberately nerfed your character, you can either run fast enough to get away without them getting an attack in (or you can run fast enough to kite them all over the map, whilst taking pot shots, until everything is dead, and you're two levels ahead of what the next few areas expect you to be.)
In short, Fallout won't coddle you, but it will certainly make sure you have the information you need to be successful.
[/edit]
-
What is not said in the manual is that the stats are more important than perks and that game offers no possibilities of improving your stats - unless you do Mentats or other temporary bonus stuff.
This is not completely true, the Brotherhood of Steel bunker has a cute docter that can raise any of your stat's by 1 pt in exchange for caps and time (At most 5 weeks, I think). She especially likes the Endurance implants. ;7
6) ... If you're not highly skilled with First Aid/Doctor, though, then the time eaten up by failed checks can make resting the faster means of healing. (This is explained in the manual and in-game.)
A failed First Aid/Docter action will take up double the time than a successful action. In Fallout 1, First Aid generally isn't neccassary since you have access to a bunch of stimpaks once you start getting some jobs in the Hub.
7) You can escape a fight by fleeing the map. If it's a big map, and you can manage to get outside of all enemies' awareness, before leaving the map, you can try the end combat button, below the end turn button, but be aware that most enemies will keep searching for you, once combat is ended. Generally speaking, the fight will resume, if you are found or return to the area. Random encounters don't plop a location down on the map, though, so if you flee a random encounter, you don't need to worry about getting jumped by the same group of enemies over and over again in that specific spot. (The end combat button is discussed in the manual. Fleeing the area you're supposed to be able to deduce on your own.)
Some special RE's do plop a location on the map, especially in Fallout 2. These types of RE's are very hard to find though, since they can occur anywhere and don't maintain that spot from game to game. You have a higher chance of finding these special RE's by having a high Perception, and a high Outdoors skill. There's 2 or 3 perks that also increase your chances, which is a good thing, because some of these special RE's have equally special loot, like a Stealthboy or a solar laser pistol (Fallout 2).
On the subject of in-game tutorials, Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 provide an object lesson in no tutorial being better than a bad tutorial. The Temple of Trials is the tutorial stage of Fallout 2, and it's a giant pain in the ass. In a game that allowed for a surprising number of diplomatic solutions, the Temple of Trials was almost solely focused on combat that could not be bypassed.
The Temple of Trials was actually a very good thing to do, even though that Fallout 2 generally favors Firearms, in the beginning of the game, ammo is very hard to get unless you've got sticky fingers in the Den. ;) During that time, you have to distribute your skill points very carefully - you can't dump them into your Tag skills right away like in Fallout 1.
-
Ah, I remember Fallout. I got 1, 2, and Tactics all on a collection disc, and of course with no manual. I was able to figure it out pretty well, though I had a strong foundation in RPGs and other no-tutorial DOS games.
Nowadays though, I love a good tutorial, and find modern games lacking them to be hard to get into. Probably why I never gave Galactic Civilizations 2 a good chance.
Anyway, a hint for you, Klaustrophobia: Deathclaws. Run away as fast as possible. No exceptions until you get a sniper rifle, good assault rifle, or an decent heavy weapon and the skill to use whatever you're carrying. Aim for the legs, hobble 'em and wear 'em out, unless you're reasonably sure you can blast 'em through the eye at 50 yards.
-
Speaking of tips, "Use" a flare to light it. Then you can use it in dark areas to increase your probability of hitting targets lit up by the flare.
Throwing the flare consumes only 1 AP, but be sure to light it before combat otherwise you have to access inventory, light it, and stick it into your hand... much more AP's and time.
-
Some special RE's do plop a location on the map, especially in Fallout 2. These types of RE's are very hard to find though, since they can occur anywhere and don't maintain that spot from game to game. You have a higher chance of finding these special RE's by having a high Perception, and a high Outdoors skill.
In Fallout 1, no random encounters create new map locations. The engine didn't support adding new areas to the map on-the-fly, until that feature was added during Fallout 2's development. Even the special random encounters are gone, once you've left them, in Fallout 1. Moreover, those special random encounters pop up as a matter of your luck stat, not your perception. Perception has no effect on the likelihood of any kind of random encounter, and outdoorsman can allow you to bypass random encounters, not adjust your chance of getting special encounters.
On the subject of in-game tutorials, Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 provide an object lesson in no tutorial being better than a bad tutorial. The Temple of Trials is the tutorial stage of Fallout 2, and it's a giant pain in the ass. In a game that allowed for a surprising number of diplomatic solutions, the Temple of Trials was almost solely focused on combat that could not be bypassed.
The Temple of Trials was actually a very good thing to do, even though that Fallout 2 generally favors Firearms, in the beginning of the game, ammo is very hard to get unless you've got sticky fingers in the Den. ;) During that time, you have to distribute your skill points very carefully - you can't dump them into your Tag skills right away like in Fallout 1.
Ammo is scarce-ish, early in Fallout 2. Klamath is your first stop, outside of Arroyo, and there's some decent, lightweight quests you can do to earn some scratch, with which you can buy enough ammo to keep you going for a little while. If you pick and choose your fights wisely, you're not going to have much trouble, once you're out of the Temple of Trials, where you can't pick and choose your fights. Moreover, you can't skip the Temple of Trials. If you want to play Fallout 2, and you don't have a post-Temple save that you want to work from, then you've got to slog through it. The rest of the game is certainly rewarding enough to make it worth the effort, but it can be a needlessly frustrating way to start.
To your point about not over-specializing, RPG systems, in general (and neither Fallout title is an exception), reward specialization. You either do a few things really well, or you do a bunch of stuff so poorly that you can't handle any encounters meant for your level. At the start of Fallout 2, you either specialize for the tutorial and have a difficult time in the mid-game; you specialize for the mid- and late-game and have a hard time with the temple, or you generalize early on, and the late game winds up being unnecessarily difficult, because you've got some of your finite skill points tied up in skills you can't make use of, since you couldn't continue developing them. (Or you try generalizing throughout and don't make it to the late game at all.)
Mandatory tutorials also do quite a job on reducing replay value. There's a whole lot more to do in Fallout 2 than in its predecessor, but I play Fallout 1 more often than Fallout 2. Even if the Temple of Trials was an amazing teaching tool, instead of a frustrating, extended combat encounter, I could still get into a replay of Fallout 1 more easily, knowing that all I'd have to do to get started again is build a character and get going, without faffing around being taught about a game I already know inside and out. I also know that I've got more freedom to experiment with character builds in Fallout 1, since those characters don't have to survive a combat-intensive tutorial, prior to getting to the meat of the game. Yes, you make a tutorial for newbies, not veterans, but eventually newbies will become veterans, and they won't want to have to replay the tutorial again to get to the meat of the game either.
A well-designed and optional tutorial is a great feature to include with a game, but the Temple of Trials was neither well-designed nor optional.
-
I'd say that the most important stat in Fallout 1 and 2 are the action points, which are gained through agility as well as action boy, bonus move and bonus rate of fire perks. I usually made a starting character that had 8 agility points, the rest were put into intelligence, which allowed you to gain more skill points when leveling up. During the game you have several opportunities to increase all of your stats, so starting with 5 in other stats than agility and intelligence isn't as bad as it sounds. Going above 8 when creating new character is kinda wasteful. Agility also gives bonus to small guns, which really helps you out early and mid game. For perks I always picked Educated and Swift learner as my starting perks, since it helps leveling up skills as quickly as possible. You should consider picking up the action boy perk many times when you're given chance to pick up new perks in level up.
So, with many AP's available to you, you usually have the opportunity to either shoot more or hit melee and retreat as far as you can. The opponent wastes his own AP's in closing to you, I had plenty of fights early on where the opponent didn't have enough AP's to hit my character after closing in, which allowed me to kill it rather effortlessly by hitting and retreating. Do also note that you can have more AP's than ten even if interface only shows up to ten.
-
none. this is new territory to me. and i understand that and expected to have a learning curve to go through. but i'd say that requiring the player to already be familiar with such things is poor design.
Actually, most things are designed like this.
Plenty of games don't look complicated, because they follow the same design principle, so you are familiar with it. You don't even think about it. you played several FPS's, you don't need a manual or tutorial, you'll get the hand in minutes.
RPGs are in general far more complex games, but once you played several RPG's, you don't even look at manuals anymore.
I never once looked at a manual while playing Fallout...but I played other RPGs before that, so I had no problems.
-
*good advice*
So, with many AP's available to you, you usually have the opportunity to either shoot more or hit melee and retreat as far as you can. The opponent wastes his own AP's in closing to you, I had plenty of fights early on where the opponent didn't have enough AP's to hit my character after closing in, which allowed me to kill it rather effortlessly by hitting and retreating. Do also note that you can have more AP's than ten even if interface only shows up to ten.
I believe you can have up to 15 AP.
Fun fact: picking fast shot (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fast_Shot) + Having 10 in agility + bonus rate of fire (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bonus_Rate_of_Fire) + action boy/girl (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Action_Boy) + sniffing 2 vials of jet (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Jet) result in you being able to fire several (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/.44_magnum_%28speed_load%29) small (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Ryder_LE_BB_gun) guns (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/H%26K_P90c) and (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Gauss_pistol_%28Fallout_2%29) energy (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_pistol_%28ext._cap.%29) weapons (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Solar_Scorcher) 6 times a round.
Other fun fact: having 10 in agility + action boy/girl + 2*jet + bonus hand to hand attacks (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bonus_HtH_Attacks) + slayer (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Slayer) + mega power fist (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mega_power_fist_%28Fallout_2%29) produces the same kind of result, but with melee attacks (although people tend to fly to the other side of the screen every hit or two).
Final fun fact: Gifted (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Gifted) is probably the most overpowered trait you can pick, especially in Fallout 2 where it basically allows you to have 10 in every attribute but luck by late-mid/early-late game.
EDIT - Bonus fun fact: although guns like the gauss rifle (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Gauss_rifle_%28Fallout_2%29) or the pulse rifle (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/YK42B_pulse_rifle_%28Fallout_2%29) or other Fallout 2 late game weapons pack hell of a punch, they will never be quite as powerful as close range burst fire from a P90 (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/H%26K_P90c) or a bozar (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bozar_%28Fallout_2%29).
Personal records are 690 against a deathclaw for the former and over 1050 against an enclave soldier for the latter.
-
Gifted comes with penalty to skills however, but I suppose it is worth it.
-
Personal records are 690 against a deathclaw for the former and over 1050 against an enclave soldier for the latter.
Brunhilda, my most recent big gun character in Fallout 2 cracked 2,400 damage against a Deathclaw, using the Bozar at range. The crit-boosting perks (Better Crits, plus a couple levels of More Crits) make burst weapons go really crazy, especially against unarmored targets like Deathclaws and Supermutants. Of course, the Bozar does pretty crazy damage, without a quarter of the shots being critical hits, and that combination of perks will make single-shot weapons into gibblet factories, but when you mash the two together, it's something special.
Gifted comes with penalty to skills however, but I suppose it is worth it.
The skill penalty from Gifted is pretty easy to overcome. Shuffle some of those extra stat points into Intelligence. Job done. Gifted is one of those traits that's so good that I typically don't take it anymore, because it just feels like cheating.
-
*good advice*
So, with many AP's available to you, you usually have the opportunity to either shoot more or hit melee and retreat as far as you can. The opponent wastes his own AP's in closing to you, I had plenty of fights early on where the opponent didn't have enough AP's to hit my character after closing in, which allowed me to kill it rather effortlessly by hitting and retreating. Do also note that you can have more AP's than ten even if interface only shows up to ten.
I believe you can have up to 15 AP.
Fun fact: picking fast shot (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fast_Shot) + Having 10 in agility + bonus rate of fire (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bonus_Rate_of_Fire) + action boy/girl (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Action_Boy) + sniffing 2 vials of jet (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Jet) result in you being able to fire several (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/.44_magnum_%28speed_load%29) small (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Ryder_LE_BB_gun) guns (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/H%26K_P90c) and (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Gauss_pistol_%28Fallout_2%29) energy (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_pistol_%28ext._cap.%29) weapons (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Solar_Scorcher) 6 times a round.
Other fun fact: having 10 in agility + action boy/girl + 2*jet + bonus hand to hand attacks (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bonus_HtH_Attacks) + slayer (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Slayer) + mega power fist (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mega_power_fist_%28Fallout_2%29) produces the same kind of result, but with melee attacks (although people tend to fly to the other side of the screen every hit or two).
Final fun fact: Gifted (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Gifted) is probably the most overpowered trait you can pick, especially in Fallout 2 where it basically allows you to have 10 in every attribute but luck by late-mid/early-late game.
EDIT - Bonus fun fact: although guns like the gauss rifle (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Gauss_rifle_%28Fallout_2%29) or the pulse rifle (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/YK42B_pulse_rifle_%28Fallout_2%29) or other Fallout 2 late game weapons pack hell of a punch, they will never be quite as powerful as close range burst fire from a P90 (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/H%26K_P90c) or a bozar (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bozar_%28Fallout_2%29).
Personal records are 690 against a deathclaw for the former and over 1050 against an enclave soldier for the latter.
In pure damage numbers, sure the autofire weapons are unmatchable. Of course, non-autofire weapons can crit far more often then bursts due to being aimed, plus they'll have better crits since there's an aimed shot bonus on that roll as well. 690 beats 90, but not 90+instant death, or even 0+instant death.
That's part of the reason you can actually beat the game totally unarmed. Armor may reduce your punches damage to 0, but it does nothing about the instant death crit coming with it.
Really though, unless you're purposefully handicapping yourself, you'll be a god by late game no matter what you do.
-
Vindicator......nothing beats a 5000 daamage total.
If you can find enough ammo for the beast!
-
I think my favorite weapon between Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 is the .556 pistol, for some reason never could get the Bozar to work quite right...
-
You mean the .223 pistol (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/.223_pistol)? (I think it's only called .556 in New Vegas). Yeah, the "Blade Runner gun" has always been a fan-favorite :). I also like the Ripper, especially when Sulik is the one using it.
-
Ah, yeah, that's the one. For some reason I confused the numbers for the same round (.223cal vs. 5.56mm).
-
"That Gun" :p
-
That Man
cookie to whomever gets the refference
(http://www.absoluteanime.com/excel_saga/that_man.jpg)
-
There was a reference in Fallout 3 to a mysterious vault dweller with no name. He left his vault suit in Paradise Falls, and I think it either had the number 44 or 77 on the back. The vault suit itself gave +5 or +10 to both melee weapons and unarmed.