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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: wuu on August 25, 2012, 05:17:44 pm

Title: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 25, 2012, 05:17:44 pm
A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?

I think this is a quite interesting topic,  I believe a kickstarter started by volition on its own wouldn't stand a chance because there is not to much of an audience for this kind of game, but I could be wrong.

But if several people of HLP would be involved in a way I don't know . Its all about the costs. To make a new game engine or to to push FSO in way we hadn't seen.

Why I started this, I think it will be fun to read your opinions and because I am still not finished as alpha 1 !!!
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: headdie on August 25, 2012, 05:20:00 pm
 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

good luck negotiating the rights from interplay.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 25, 2012, 05:36:53 pm
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

good luck negotiating the rights from interplay.

The biggest hurdle , but how to approach a kickstarter campaign to make it possible I think is on par with to the get the rights from interplay.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: rubixcube on August 25, 2012, 05:47:59 pm
well i suppose the first step you would take would be to ask.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Legate Damar on August 25, 2012, 05:48:43 pm
You could do a "spiritual sequel," just name it something different.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on August 25, 2012, 05:52:47 pm
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

good luck negotiating the rights from interplay.

The biggest hurdle , but how to approach a kickstarter campaign to make it possible I think is on par with to the get the rights from interplay.
Solution theory; make a Hard-light publishing studio comprised of hard light members, have a fund raiser or use some money that WE all have and buy the rights to freespace from interplay (which would cost an ass ton of money), say hey Volition we want you to make fs3. done.  :nod: They already said they would commit murder to make freespace 3.  ;)
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: An4ximandros on August 25, 2012, 06:10:20 pm
Having a FS3 would be bad and you should feel bad.

Seriously now, the reason we all keep coming back to Freespace 1 or 2 is because of the mystery, it's the lack of closure that makes Freespace interesting (just like the lack of closure was supposed to make MGS2 interesting, nevermind the brain dead fanbase killing that <_<) having a Freespace 3 would kill interest in the franchise.

I mean come on! it's the lack of closure that gave us awesome mods/campaigns like Inferno, Blue Planet, Vassago's Dirge, and hundreds more I cannot think of right now.
It makes us think, and only true art makes you think. (FS being art or not is subject to ones' opinion, keep that in mind)
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: headdie on August 25, 2012, 06:13:47 pm
Your biggest hurdle is that you have a chicken and the egg scenario.

you post your kickstart first and by the fact you dont have all the necessary rights to distribute your FS game then you are in a situation where you are advertising for funds for a project you dont have the legal right to complete which might violate Kickstarts valid project rule, also Interplay might also have the right to issue a cease and desist if they feel it in their interest to.

alternatively

you approach Interplay about acquiring the rights and get laughed out of the office because you are not in a position to guarantee payment, remember industry insiders have approached Interplay about it and While Derek Smart is a collective curse around here it is my understanding that he was interested in acquiring the rights regardless of the community feeling and it still didn't happen, probably because interplay wanted more than a reasonable sum of money for it.

Lastly the whole Interplay-Bethesda-Fallout fiasco would make me very cautious about what exact rights I had at the end of the day, remember that if you want :v: to be involved (which would be a necessity for a good number here to accept the new game) then Interplay would have to have no or little hand in it's development as I expect THQ will demand to be the publisher as :v:'s corporate owners.

Having a FS3 would be bad and you should feel bad.

Seriously now, the reason we all keep coming back to Freespace 1 or 2 is because of the mystery, it's the lack of closure that makes Freespace interesting (just like the lack of closure was supposed to make MGS2 interesting, nevermind the brain dead fanbase killing that <_<) having a Freespace 3 would kill interest in the franchise.

I mean come on! it's the lack of closure that gave us awesome mods/campaigns like Inferno, Blue Planet, Vassago's Dirge, and hundreds more I cannot think of right now.
It makes us think, and only true art makes you think. (FS being art or not is subject to ones' opinion, keep that in mind)

FS3 wouldn't have to be set after Capella, remember we have the Ancient-Shivan, T-V and NTF conflicts where we have little or no canon info which would be fun to explore, not to mention there has not been a game and precious few mods which explore FS from a Vasudan perspective.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Droid803 on August 25, 2012, 06:16:07 pm
Ungh, would we please put back the "don't talk about FS3" thing?
Because it's rather annoying.

No, I don't give a **** about FS3. Even if one were made at this point I'm not even sure I would even care, regardless of if :v: made it or not.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 25, 2012, 06:24:04 pm
Having a FS3 would be bad and you should feel bad.

Seriously now, the reason we all keep coming back to Freespace 1 or 2 is because of the mystery, it's the lack of closure that makes Freespace interesting (just like the lack of closure was supposed to make MGS2 interesting, nevermind the brain dead fanbase killing that <_<) having a Freespace 3 would kill interest in the franchise.

I mean come on! it's the lack of closure that gave us awesome mods/campaigns like Inferno, Blue Planet, Vassago's Dirge, and hundreds more I cannot think of right now.
It makes us think, and only true art makes you think. (FS being art or not is subject to ones' opinion, keep that in mind)

I have to agree with the none closure, that give us the opportunity to make so many different approaches what could be, but in the same time what would happend when the guys from volition had the change to finish it could they nail it !
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 25, 2012, 06:28:15 pm
It's been 13 years. Time to let go.

We have FSO. We have tons of mods. We have an awesome community. And Volition is still out there doing lots of awesome stuff that has nothing to do with FS.

You'll find that 99% of the people around here are perfectly fine with this state of affair.



As you can expect, in 13 years, people have debated over and over again about what FS3 could be or what it should be or whatnot. Most of those ideas have evolved into fanfics, campaigns, mods. FS3 would kill all of this by putting FS canon on a single, narrow track to follow. The only thing it would achieve is dividing the community over whether we should accept it or reject it or whatnot. It is simpler, and objectively better, for everyone involved, to keep the status quo. It has worked well for us for more than a decade, and it has shown no sign to become otherwise in the foreseeable future.

Freespace is not dead. It's our job, it's your job, to keep it alive. That's what we're all here for. We have the tools for it, we have the will for it, and that's all we'll ever need.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 25, 2012, 06:37:10 pm
Ungh, would we please put back the "don't talk about FS3" thing?
Because it's rather annoying.

No, I don't give a **** about FS3. Even if one were made at this point I'm not even sure I would even care, regardless of if :v: made it or not.

A really interesting opinion, I think what makes Freespace2 so appealing is FSO without it no TBP or WCS,
a interesting approach could be that FS3 would be a open source code.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Dragon on August 25, 2012, 06:56:10 pm
If you look at interviews with  :v:, BP nailed their intention for FS3 almost perfectly. Really, we don't need an official sequel, such attempts after such a long time usually ruined the franchise and were deemed discontinuity anyway. You have a lot of campaigns detailing what happened after FS2, and nothing stops you from making your own mod in one of those timelines, if you wish to do so.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on August 25, 2012, 07:10:22 pm
If you look at interviews with  :v:, BP nailed their intention for FS3 almost perfectly. Really, we don't need an official sequel, such attempts after such a long time usually ruined the franchise and were deemed discontinuity anyway. You have a lot of campaigns detailing what happened after FS2, and nothing stops you from making your own mod in one of those timelines, if you wish to do so.
I already consider Blue planet cannon!
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on August 25, 2012, 07:16:45 pm
BP is not canon.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Dragon on August 25, 2012, 07:18:36 pm
I also accepted it as being as close to canon fan made content can get, especially after those interviews with :v: members confirming so many ideas BP had. It comes the closest to realizing their vision of FS3, and IMHO, it's actually written better than either FS1 or FS2. It also fits with the overall theme of FS2. While there are other great campaigns out there, none of them managed to guess :v:'s ideas with such precision.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: headdie on August 25, 2012, 07:51:20 pm
I also accepted it as being as close to canon fan made content can get, especially after those interviews with :v: members confirming so many ideas BP had. It comes the closest to realizing their vision of FS3, and IMHO, it's actually written better than either FS1 or FS2. It also fits with the overall theme of FS2. While there are other great campaigns out there, none of them managed to guess :v:'s ideas with such precision.

personally I found the similarities a little suspect, but as I only have a few half baked theories I will leave it at that
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 25, 2012, 07:59:03 pm
The most interesting aspect for a FS3 kickstarter is not the finishing of the campaign.

But the possibility that would bring it, I know I stepping on land mine with posting this but a new source code that is open source would be a quite interesting.

Freespace 2 as it is now is all about the awesome mods.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Droid803 on August 25, 2012, 08:15:00 pm
I don't see any potential FS3 having half the features that FS2 currently has, tbh.
And there's no guarantee it would be any less codethulu.
I don't see what's so exciting about it maybe except for an interface system which isn't stuck in the 90's.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: yuezhi on August 25, 2012, 08:49:33 pm
If you look at interviews with  :v:, BP nailed their intention for FS3 almost perfectly. Really, we don't need an official sequel, such attempts after such a long time usually ruined the franchise and were deemed discontinuity anyway. You have a lot of campaigns detailing what happened after FS2, and nothing stops you from making your own mod in one of those timelines, if you wish to do so.
what interviews?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on August 25, 2012, 09:15:30 pm
BP is not canon.
Did you even read what I said? I said; I (me) consider it cannon. I know its not officially cannon.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Hades on August 25, 2012, 09:17:53 pm
Ungh, would we please put back the "don't talk about FS3" thing?
Because it's rather annoying.

No, I don't give a **** about FS3. Even if one were made at this point I'm not even sure I would even care, regardless of if :v: made it or not.
Yes because everyone feels the same way as you do, just like space raspberries fly through nebulae in Spain.

We have an awesome community.
I'd like to point you to certain things like the Polish Hate Brigade.

VERY AWESOME.

I also accepted it as being as close to canon fan made content can get, especially after those interviews with :v: members confirming so many ideas BP had. It comes the closest to realizing their vision of FS3, and IMHO, it's actually written better than either FS1 or FS2. It also fits with the overall theme of FS2. While there are other great campaigns out there, none of them managed to guess :v:'s ideas with such precision.
You mean those interviews that was basically just the basic ideas the one writer had and nothing pure and set in stone that had a couple of similarities but otherwise being pretty different?

CONFIRMATION CONFIRMED
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Droid803 on August 25, 2012, 09:37:30 pm
Ungh, would we please put back the "don't talk about FS3" thing?
Because it's rather annoying.

No, I don't give a **** about FS3. Even if one were made at this point I'm not even sure I would even care, regardless of if :v: made it or not.
Yes because everyone feels the same way as you do, just like space raspberries fly through nebulae in Spain.
When did I even imply that? I was only ever talking about myself.
I've also given my reasoning why, in a later post.

It's just that every three weeks a new thread pops up about this and we go through the whole ****ing thing all over again, and nothing ever happens. **** it, the next time this happens I'm not even going to read the damn thread.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: yuezhi on August 25, 2012, 09:45:13 pm
at this rate we'll never reach page 3.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: The E on August 26, 2012, 01:38:16 am
If you look at interviews with  :v:, BP nailed their intention for FS3 almost perfectly.

No. No, BP doesn't.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Mongoose on August 26, 2012, 02:23:02 am
If you look at interviews with  :v:, BP nailed their intention for FS3 almost perfectly. Really, we don't need an official sequel, such attempts after such a long time usually ruined the franchise and were deemed discontinuity anyway. You have a lot of campaigns detailing what happened after FS2, and nothing stops you from making your own mod in one of those timelines, if you wish to do so.
I already consider Blue planet cannon!
Blue Planet has a cannon?  Sweet!
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 26, 2012, 02:24:12 am
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af321/0rph3u5/volitioncannon2.png)



We have an awesome community.
I'd like to point you to certain things like the Polish Hate Brigade.

VERY AWESOME.
Did I say "perfect community" ? I don't think I did :p
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: karajorma on August 26, 2012, 02:44:33 am
If you claim that this is a great community, Hades will post to prove you wrong. :p
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Nohiki on August 26, 2012, 02:45:35 am
Last time i heard, Interplay has like 300$ on it's bank account, so it might be cheaper to buy interplay instead of just buying FreeSpace IP :D
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Mikes on August 26, 2012, 03:06:32 am
A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?

No.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Legate Damar on August 26, 2012, 03:06:45 am
FS3 would kill all of this by putting FS canon on a single, narrow track to follow. The only thing it would achieve is dividing the community over whether we should accept it or reject it or whatnot. It is simpler, and objectively better, for everyone involved, to keep the status quo. It has worked well for us for more than a decade, and it has shown no sign to become otherwise in the foreseeable future.

Freespace is not dead. It's our job, it's your job, to keep it alive. That's what we're all here for. We have the tools for it, we have the will for it, and that's all we'll ever need.

What if it went on a multiverse plot, every decision made creates a different reality, so all of the campaigns could still exist and not contradict canon?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: The E on August 26, 2012, 03:15:52 am
What if it went on a multiverse plot, every decision made creates a different reality, so all of the campaigns could still exist and not contradict canon?

FreeSpace ain't Star Trek, boyo.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Oddgrim on August 26, 2012, 03:37:58 am
Hai, I'm posting in a f3 thread that mostly have run it's course. In efforts to reach at least page 3.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 26, 2012, 04:09:46 am
Hai, I'm posting in a f3 thread that mostly have run it's course. In efforts to reach at least page 3.

 :lol: I thought it would dry up in page one before I started the topic ; I was more curious of the hlp "flak" that would be unleashed  :hopping:

Ungh, would we please put back the "don't talk about FS3" thing?
Because it's rather annoying.

No, I don't give a **** about FS3. Even if one were made at this point I'm not even sure I would even care, regardless of if :v: made it or not.
Yes because everyone feels the same way as you do, just like space raspberries fly through nebulae in Spain.
When did I even imply that? I was only ever talking about myself.
I've also given my reasoning why, in a later post.

It's just that every three weeks a new thread pops up about this and we go through the whole ****ing thing all over again, and nothing ever happens. **** it, the next time this happens I'm not even going to read the damn thread.

Common without this kind of thread it wouldn't be the same community  :lol:

I believe you would read anyway and still post a comment  :p
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: An4ximandros on August 26, 2012, 07:53:22 am
Dummy post in futile gesture to help the thread have at least three pages.


:P

 No, really how many times has the "(Subject) (Possesive Verb) an idea to get FREESPACE 3 done!" popped up on the internet? or these forums?
FREESPACE will never have a "canon" conclusion, you are a million times better off taking some ideas (Alien Xenocidal race - Alien friendly race - Space Alien-UN) and making you own commercial FREESPACE ripoff.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: The E on August 26, 2012, 08:01:30 am
Dummy post in futile gesture to help the thread have at least three pages.


:P

Stop this. You have been warned.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 26, 2012, 08:56:20 am
I really thought that would make a real interisting topic, but anyway it is really amazing that some kind of "fundamentalism" had taken root in this community and in a way its understandable.

I don't want this to get out of hand and this thread have run it's course !

So wish you guys a wonderful weekend !
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 26, 2012, 10:45:48 am
It's not "interesting" anymore when you always get someone to bring it up every few weeks/months for 13 years.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on August 26, 2012, 11:58:26 am
It's not "interesting" anymore when you always get someone to bring it up every few weeks/months for 13 years.

Yeah....makes you want 2  :beamz:
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Mongoose on August 26, 2012, 05:53:55 pm
For a while, even uttering the characters "FS3" in sequence was pretty much verboten around here, but eventually the community mellowed out enough that the occasional newbie asking about why a sequel was never made wasn't a big deal.  I think the only sort of thread that induces groans is someone trying to come up with some feasible way to obtain the rights.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: TwentyPercentCooler on August 26, 2012, 10:00:37 pm
It's still a little bit like throwing rocks at a hornet's nest, though.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: karajorma on August 26, 2012, 10:05:08 pm
The problem is that it's never anything new. So it goes nowhere and just annoys the regulars.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 26, 2012, 10:26:35 pm
The fact people flip out at what are without fail questions or ideas by newbies with big dreams is more of an indictment of them than it is the newbies who do the asking.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: karajorma on August 27, 2012, 04:09:24 am
Except that I don't see anyone flipping out. That was something that happened way back in the past.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 27, 2012, 04:41:03 am
Except that I don't see anyone flipping out. That was something that happened way back in the past.

It was meant as part of the explanatory as to why we don't ban discussion of FS3 anymore. I wasn't replying to you, but to the thread and its general direction (and several other people who've complained about FS3 threads).
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: karajorma on August 27, 2012, 05:04:53 am
Fair enough.

I tend to agree that the reactions to discussion of FS3 were bordering on the ludicrous at one point. I can't blame any newbie for being surprised or upset that FS3 doesn't exist and wanting to talk about it. And while that might have been annoying to the regulars, the responses did get far too heated.

That said, it is mildly annoying when someone asks about Kickstarter or the like, cause you do have to wonder why they don't ever consider that in a community that has been around for over 10 years, someone might have thought of the same idea already. :p
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 05:15:42 am
To be perfectly honest, a Kickstarter for FS3 is simply too much. However, I don't see why a Kickstarter to collect the money needed to buy the FS rights from Interplay wouldn't be ok... the whole "you don't get charged unless the goal is met" thing is ideal, although I have no idea what the backer tiers could possibly be composed of. :p At the very least, it would finally be an accurate gauge of the level of interest in the Freespace IP, forcing people to put their money where their mouths have been for over a decade.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 27, 2012, 05:18:45 am
What would we even want FS rights for, aside from making sure Interplay doesn't randomly enter a mod shutting spree like ModDB suffered with BSG (chances are close to zero tbh), and/or stopping Youtube from flagging copyrighted content on FS vids.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 05:32:14 am
What would we even want FS rights for, aside from making sure Interplay doesn't randomly enter a mod shutting spree like ModDB suffered with BSG (chances are close to zero tbh), and/or stopping Youtube from flagging copyrighted content on FS vids.

Seriously? I doubt a soul on this board would raise a finger if we somehow raised the money to purchase the rights and then simply handed the rights over to Volition.

In related news, I spoke with Dave Baranec via email a year ago, and I forgot I had mentioned a kickstarter campaign to him at the time. It was in response to someone who had contacted the admins on HLP wanting to know if a sizable donation they wanted to make could be put towards obtaining the FS rights, etc. Here's what we said:

Quote from: Sandwich
8/28/11

Well, the guy who was asking was wanting to donate something like $15k or so towards the FS IP rights and FS3 production... I guess that's not all that much in the grand scheme of things, but perhaps knowing that could be a catalyst for an official Volition FS IP kickstarter.com campaign or the like? I dunno, it just seems that if one person is willing to put that kind of money into it, that perhaps interest in rebirthing the genre is higher than the news media would indicate...

Quote from: DaveB
8/30/11
 
Ehhh, maybe.    Even if you could secure a couple hundred grand for the license, I think you’d have trouble getting the 20-30 million needed to put it together as a proper AAA title  :)
 
It would be pretty sweet it Freespace went out as the king of the hill and then brought the genre back as the new king of the hill.

Quote from: Sandwich
8/30/11

And honestly now, where the heck did those wild(ly useful) targetting commands originate from? "Enemy of my friend is my enemy" or something?

20-30 million, eh? Meh, give the storyline to the HLPers and we'll do it for free. :p Base it on the SCP and Volition would be hailed "King of Community Embracement", too. :p You wouldn't even need to sped a dime on marketing - the phoenix factor would do that for you. :p

I never got any reply to that... :(
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Nuke on August 27, 2012, 05:51:28 am
so assume this all pans out and we actually do aquire the rights to fs, then what? just hand it over to volition and tell em to go nuts? they would still need to convince their publisher to fly with it, which itself could be a challenge considering the state of the space sim genre. and would thq demand a slice of the rights? id hate to have thq hijack the ip and if things go sour v and fs would be in the same boat as its been in for yeas. assuming all goes well and they do manage to make a game, would it be a very good game, or will they bend and bow to every demand of every console pesant out there, create a half-ass game with an engine worse than the current iteration of the fs2 engine? would that engine even be modable? would it carry on the freespace modding community? or would it devide it between hard core fs2 people and those who prefer to mod fs3? i wouldnt want to see it trash the existing community. the other side of it is if they have their ip back, what stops them from making freespace 4, 5 and 6? perhaps a little loss in modability is worth some extra sequals.

im really not looking forward to that **** storm.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 27, 2012, 05:59:03 am
Pretty much agree with nuke on every point here. Like I said in my first post of this thread, I think it is simpler and objectively better to maintain the status quo.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 06:17:25 am
Geez... paranoid much? ;)

so assume this all pans out and we actually do aquire the rights to fs, then what? just hand it over to volition and tell em to go nuts?

Yes, worst case scenario we just hand it over and take the financial "loss". That's what raising money for the IP would be all about anyway.

they would still need to convince their publisher to fly with it, which itself could be a challenge considering the state of the space sim genre.

Indeed they would. To put it humorously, "Hey publisher, we just developed a pretty successful game called Saint's Row the Third, so we're a bit of a darling among developers these days. Oh, also, fans of a few games of ours made over a friggin decade ago care so much that they raised enough money to buy those older titles' IP, and then gave us those rights. So, we're making a game from those rights. We'd like you to back us, but it's happening anyway, and we have the suspicion that even if you don't, it'll be fine. KTHXBYE."

and would thq demand a slice of the rights? id hate to have thq hijack the ip and if things go sour v and fs would be in the same boat as its been in for yeas.

So in that case at least V's publisher would have the rights, instead of not-V's publisher. I'll take anything I can get.

Besides, we could give the IP to V under the condition that it doesn't get hijacked.

assuming all goes well and they do manage to make a game, would it be a very good game, or will they bend and bow to every demand of every console pesant out there, create a half-ass game with an engine worse than the current iteration of the fs2 engine? would that engine even be modable? would it carry on the freespace modding community? or would it devide it between hard core fs2 people and those who prefer to mod fs3? i wouldnt want to see it trash the existing community.

So? Even if Nu-FS is completely unmoddable, how will that affect our current SCP sweetheart? So we end up with an unmoddable sequel story/game that is finally canon, and a moddable SCP like we've been loving for years. This is worse than what we have now?

the other side of it is if they have their ip back, what stops them from making freespace 4, 5 and 6? perhaps a little loss in modability is worth some extra sequals.

Again, how is this worse than the current situation? I'm not saying the current one is bad by any means, mind you. But having more than we have now cannot make our situation worse.



Look, if we try and fail, we get extra media attention for doing so, more traffic, and we all win. If we try and succeed, we win bigger. If we try and succeed, and V fails (say the media report that "V's FS3 pales in comparison with what the FS2 community has been making for years"), we still win.

Where is the actual bad?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 27, 2012, 06:25:39 am
Jeeze, you don't know when to drop it, do you ?

If you want to do it that much, go ahead. Just don't expect any support from us. And expect a huge "we warned ya" when it goes horribly wrong.

In case you haven't noticed, that idea is already dividing us even before we started implementing it. That doesn't exactly bode well for the future of this now does it.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 06:30:25 am
Jeeze, you don't know when to drop it, do you ?

If you want to do it that much, go ahead. Just don't expect any support from us. And expect a huge "we warned ya" when it goes horribly wrong.

In case you haven't noticed, that idea is already dividing us even before we started implementing it. That doesn't exactly bode well for the future of this now does it.

Just trying to figure out if there's any valid reasons why this would worsen things is all, mate. So far, I haven't seen any.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 27, 2012, 06:31:13 am
Then you are welcome to re-read the thread.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: headdie on August 27, 2012, 07:00:25 am
tbh matth all I have seen is mention of the problems such a project is likely to encounter and general pessimisms, the most focused of which is on "woe this will tear the community apart", with most of that focusing on how it will spoil existing mods and can I ask how would that happen when no mod is canon? it's like saying because inferno was released years ago Darius should never have bothered with Blue Planet because Post Capella and has been done!  Also who says FS3 has to be post Capella?

end of the day the community has a workable engine that has been worked on very dedicated and talented people which due to the licence cant be taken away from us.  We also have a strong modding ethic built up over the last 10+ years, that will not evaporate just because FS3 is out.  also if :v: did do FS3 in a post Capella setting I doubt they would be able to plausibly kill the shivas off there and then in one campaign leaving room for a new open ended setting with new canon material to work with.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 07:10:29 am
Then you are welcome to re-read the thread.

Fair 'nuff. You want me to respond to every single seemingly valid point made in the thread? Here goes.

Seriously now, the reason we all keep coming back to Freespace 1 or 2 is because of the mystery, it's the lack of closure that makes Freespace interesting (just like the lack of closure was supposed to make MGS2 interesting, nevermind the brain dead fanbase killing that <_<) having a Freespace 3 would kill interest in the franchise.

I mean come on! it's the lack of closure that gave us awesome mods/campaigns like Inferno, Blue Planet, Vassago's Dirge, and hundreds more I cannot think of right now.
It makes us think, and only true art makes you think. (FS being art or not is subject to ones' opinion, keep that in mind)

True, the mystery has served the community very well. Who says FS3 would have to wrap up all the loose ends and unknowns from FS1 & 2? FS2 certainly didn't wrap up FS1's loose ends - it expanded them and added to them! Can we not give Volition the benefit of a doubt that they wouldn't pull a Matrix Revolutions?


It's been 13 years. Time to let go.

We have FSO. We have tons of mods. We have an awesome community. And Volition is still out there doing lots of awesome stuff that has nothing to do with FS.

You'll find that 99% of the people around here are perfectly fine with this state of affair.

Not saying what we have is bad. Just saying it can be even better.

As you can expect, in 13 years, people have debated over and over again about what FS3 could be or what it should be or whatnot. Most of those ideas have evolved into fanfics, campaigns, mods. FS3 would kill all of this by putting FS canon on a single, narrow track to follow. The only thing it would achieve is dividing the community over whether we should accept it or reject it or whatnot. It is simpler, and objectively better, for everyone involved, to keep the status quo. It has worked well for us for more than a decade, and it has shown no sign to become otherwise in the foreseeable future.

Freespace is not dead. It's our job, it's your job, to keep it alive. That's what we're all here for. We have the tools for it, we have the will for it, and that's all we'll ever need.

So what you're saying is that FS3 - presuming it would be set after the events of FS2 - would change the status of all the incredible fan fiction we've been producing over the years into non-canon? Uhm...

Ok, that's a bit pedantic. What you're really saying is that all the fan-fic would go from being potentially-true non-canon to definitely true/not-true non-canon? Does this make them any less enjoyable, or any less of an accomplishment?

I agree that it is nice to imagine that whichever fan-fic storyline we hold most dear is actually canon, but that's fantasizing about, well... fiction. Fictionception?

In any case, I think that in 13 years - as you pointed out - we've been over all the likely scenarios for what's what in the post-FS1/2 universe. Personally, now I'd like to see what we can come up with for the post-FS3 universe. :)

I don't see any potential FS3 having half the features that FS2 currently has, tbh.
And there's no guarantee it would be any less codethulu.
I don't see what's so exciting about it maybe except for an interface system which isn't stuck in the 90's.

All you're saying is that you're pessimistic about a FS3's potential. All I'm saying is let's find out.

That said, it is mildly annoying when someone asks about Kickstarter or the like, cause you do have to wonder why they don't ever consider that in a community that has been around for over 10 years, someone might have thought of the same idea already. :p

And yet it's never actually been tried. Better to have tried and failed then not to have tried at all, no?



So I still fail to see any valid reasons why this shouldn't be tried. I welcome any and all responses made in a mature fashion.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on August 27, 2012, 07:28:22 am
So I still fail to see any valid reasons why this shouldn't be tried. I welcome any and all responses made in a mature fashion.
If your talking about the making of Fs3 then I will pipe in, even though my thoughts and ideas are not worth much around here.  :P
 :v: doesn't have to make all commercial games. Hell they could make there own mod called Freespace 3 and say; "this is what it would have been, but the community has expanded upon our original idea was going to be and made it better. Our mod (fs3) is to-be considered non-cannon".
 
I'm sure you guys will find some way to flaw that statement, and beat me over the head with 'why it won't happen'. But I have realized that, I am happy with what we got!
Plus I am neutral on this topic, if there isn't a Fs3...fine I am happy with the way it is now. If there is...cool...gi-me gi-me, while still enjoying all of the mods already created!
And on buying the rights, imo just do it! If we got the rights we could to what ever the hell we want with Freespace, and we would not have to worry about copyrights ****. (on you-tube)

There I hope I responded correctly, just remember simple things elude me, and OH MY GOD its coming close to FOUR thats right FOUR pages!   :eek2:
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: The E on August 27, 2012, 07:38:31 am
I for one am with sandwich on this. Yes, getting all the pieces into place will tale time and effort. Securing the license to develop the Freespace IP is the obvious first step, and starting a Kickstarter to raise a certain amount to present  Interplay and to gauge actual interest is definitely one of the saner ideas to make it happen.

And hey, better to have tried and failed than to have done nothing at all.

I mean, of course there's a risk that it may fail horribly, but just like sandwich, I am unable to see any real downside here.

Re: Volition doesn't have to make commercial games: Yes, actually, they do. They're a business, and a THQ subsidiary. They do not have the leisure to engage in Vanity projects.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: headdie on August 27, 2012, 07:44:06 am
I suspect a :v: made FS3 mod would have to be done in their own time rather than on the clock due to workload and deadlines on commercial projects.  Also as the company who developed the original games I hate to think what the legal situation would be.

If the original team got together and developed a mod in their own time with no reference to fs in the name and released it as a this is what we would have done it should be ok I would have thought.

edit

but when you consider their day job is making games, many of them probably want to just do something else in their free time
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 27, 2012, 08:05:57 am
At the very least, it would finally be an accurate gauge of the level of interest in the Freespace IP, forcing people to put their money where their mouths have been for over a decade.

Could this be the most important part, what level of interest in a space sim, generally speaking exist can you use the downloads number from TBP or WCS as gauge meter.

This is quite interesting http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/850516062/wings-directors-cut (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/850516062/wings-directors-cut)
and http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2?ref=category (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2?ref=category) to compare them I thing is impossible but what they have in common is the nostalgic approach both games have, but Wings a Director's Cut and Wasteland 2 a sequel! That would explain mostly the support, but that is Guess Fu !

Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: jr2 on August 27, 2012, 08:35:33 am
Wouldn't a problem that we would run into with a Kickstarter project be, that in expressing interest in the FS IP, we would be announcing to Interplay that is has value, and thus driving the price that Interplay would ask up higher than it already is?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on August 27, 2012, 08:39:48 am
Well you can't get the IP without asking them, and asking them shows it has value. You can't avoid that, kickstarter or not.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 08:40:13 am
Wouldn't a problem that we would run into with a Kickstarter project be, that in expressing interest in the FS IP, we would be announcing to Interplay that is has value, and thus driving the price that Interplay would ask up higher than it already is?

My perception was always to first go to Interplay and ask them how much they want for the IP, and only then go to Kickstarter to try and raise that money.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: jr2 on August 27, 2012, 08:42:20 am
Wouldn't a problem that we would run into with a Kickstarter project be, that in expressing interest in the FS IP, we would be announcing to Interplay that is has value, and thus driving the price that Interplay would ask up higher than it already is?

My perception was always to first go to Interplay and ask them how much they want for the IP, and only then go to Kickstarter to try and raise that money.

Sounds good... but would Interplay then, after seeing the potential value, increase their asking price, hoping to get away with it?  Honestly, the FS IP as it stands, in their grasp, probably has very little value, as they won'r do anything with it, and won't let anyone else do anything with it.

EDIT: What I mean is, it would be rather crushing to reach the Kickstarter goal, maybe even surpass it, and then have Interplay slam the door in our faces, perhaps in the hope that some other company would make them a higher offer, now that the Kickstarter project has shown the interest level.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Nuke on August 27, 2012, 08:43:57 am
im not saying im totally against the idea. we might risk the community, or risk making the rights to freespace even harder to attain. but what worth doing comes without risk? my last post was just highlighting possible worst case scenarios.

should probibly add a poll to this thread and figure out how much money the freespace community is willing to throw at the idea. it would also be beneficial to figure out exactly how much interplay wants for the rights. if the numbers add up then go for it. also try to get :v: involved somehow, to provide incentives to fund larger than usual sums of money, like autographed v/fs merch.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 08:46:58 am
also try to get :v: involved somehow, to provide incentives to fund larger than usual sums of money, like autographed v/fs merch.

Ahh, that's a good idea for tier rewards. :)
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Nuke on August 27, 2012, 08:52:19 am
Wouldn't a problem that we would run into with a Kickstarter project be, that in expressing interest in the FS IP, we would be announcing to Interplay that is has value, and thus driving the price that Interplay would ask up higher than it already is?

My perception was always to first go to Interplay and ask them how much they want for the IP, and only then go to Kickstarter to try and raise that money.

Sounds good... but would Interplay then, after seeing the potential value, increase their asking price, hoping to get away with it?  Honestly, the FS IP as it stands, in their grasp, probably has very little value, as they won'r do anything with it, and won't let anyone else do anything with it.

EDIT: What I mean is, it would be rather crushing to reach the Kickstarter goal, maybe even surpass it, and then have Interplay slam the door in our faces, perhaps in the hope that some other company would make them a higher offer, now that the Kickstarter project has shown the interest level.

i for one wouldnt buy an fs3 that wasnt made by :v:
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: The E on August 27, 2012, 09:11:03 am
Quote
What I mean is, it would be rather crushing to reach the Kickstarter goal, maybe even surpass it, and then have Interplay slam the door in our faces, perhaps in the hope that some other company would make them a higher offer, now that the Kickstarter project has shown the interest level.

At that point, it would be a business decision by Interplay that would be hard to justify towards their shareholders. Suppose they tell us that they'll part with the license for $xxx. If we then come up with that sum, they'll have to find a justification why a lump sum of xxx Dollars guaranteed is not desirable. Gambling on attempting to develop the license further, which means coming up with money to pay developers to work on it in the hope that the produced game will make more profit doesn't actually sound like a good business idea to me, not when there are people around willing to give them cash.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 27, 2012, 09:35:30 am
im not saying im totally against the idea. we might risk the community, or risk making the rights to freespace even harder to attain. but what worth doing comes without risk? my last post was just highlighting possible worst case scenarios.

should probibly add a poll to this thread and figure out how much money the freespace community is willing to throw at the idea. it would also be beneficial to figure out exactly how much interplay wants for the rights. if the numbers add up then go for it. also try to get :v: involved somehow, to provide incentives to fund larger than usual sums of money, like autographed v/fs merch.

A have no problem to add a poll but , would like to read more comments on reasonable options like for example 10 dollars are in my budget!

I think it would be necessary to have already XXX money for lets say for property rights negotiation with interplay to get a fixed price for the ip.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: karajorma on August 27, 2012, 10:07:06 am
At that point, it would be a business decision by Interplay that would be hard to justify towards their shareholders.

Since when were Interplay known for their good business sense? :p
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Nuke on August 27, 2012, 10:13:48 am
im not saying im totally against the idea. we might risk the community, or risk making the rights to freespace even harder to attain. but what worth doing comes without risk? my last post was just highlighting possible worst case scenarios.

should probibly add a poll to this thread and figure out how much money the freespace community is willing to throw at the idea. it would also be beneficial to figure out exactly how much interplay wants for the rights. if the numbers add up then go for it. also try to get :v: involved somehow, to provide incentives to fund larger than usual sums of money, like autographed v/fs merch.

A have no problem to add a poll but , would like to read more comments on reasonable options like for example 10 dollars are in my budget!

I think it would be necessary to have already XXX money for lets say for property rights negotiation with interplay to get a fixed price for the ip.

id just say something like: $0-$10, $10-$100, $100-$1k, $1k-$10k, $10k+. you can narrow the ranges down i guess, depending on the number of options you are allowed to put up.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: The E on August 27, 2012, 10:21:14 am
At that point, it would be a business decision by Interplay that would be hard to justify towards their shareholders.

Since when were Interplay known for their good business sense? :p

Definitely true.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 27, 2012, 11:25:16 am
I add a poll, some kind of start to see what real interist exit in our community to see FS3 ?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: jg18 on August 27, 2012, 11:44:38 am
I add a poll, some kind of start to see what real interist exit in our community to see FS3 ?
I think adding a poll is a great idea, but could someone please add Snuffy?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 11:55:24 am
I add a poll, some kind of start to see what real interist exit in our community to see FS3 ?
I think adding a poll is a great idea, but could someone please add Snuffy?

No, and I'll remove it if it's added.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: jg18 on August 27, 2012, 11:56:20 am
I add a poll, some kind of start to see what real interist exit in our community to see FS3 ?
I think adding a poll is a great idea, but could someone please add Snuffy?

No, and I'll remove it if it's added.
Sorry, I thought it was considered to be a standard poll option, even a required one.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 11:57:34 am
More like a silly tradition, but in some cases I suspect it skews poll results. This would be one of those cases where I'd rather the results not get skewed.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: jg18 on August 27, 2012, 12:00:05 pm
All right, then how about an option for "0 $" (changing "0 - 10 $" to "1 to 10 $") or "Not interested"? Since "0 - 10 $" isn't really the same thing. Or is the poll only for measuring interest and not lack of interest?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 12:01:34 pm
I've adjusted the options; it's for showing interest, not lack thereof. I also made it a bit more granular in the areas I'd hope people would be able to contribute (the $100 - $1000 range), so if you voted earlier and I changed your vote amount, you can change your vote.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Scourge of Ages on August 27, 2012, 12:16:26 pm
How does Kickstarter handle things like this?

If the target amount of money is reached, and all the backers are charged, but you still fail to make the purchase, or if you get it for less than was received, what do you do with all the money? Does Kickstarter allow you to refund all the backers if necessary?

Who would be in charge of setting it all up anyway?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 12:19:04 pm
How does Kickstarter handle things like this?

If the target amount of money is reached, and all the backers are charged, but you still fail to make the purchase, or if you get it for less than was received, what do you do with all the money? Does Kickstarter allow you to refund all the backers if necessary?

Who would be in charge of setting it all up anyway?

I've already gotten in touch with KickStarter about the viability of this type of project (raising money for an IP purchase) and am awaiting to hear back from them. If they give a tentative go-ahead, then we'd need to contact Interplay and see where they stand - before actually starting the Kickstarter. Also, it has to be started by someone who is a US resident, so I'm out. :-/
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: yuezhi on August 27, 2012, 01:09:58 pm
at this rate we'll never reach page 3.
looks like i stand corrected. kind of.
Spoiler:
i've set mine to 50 posts a page. :snipe:
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 27, 2012, 02:56:02 pm

How does Kickstarter handle things like this?

If the target amount of money is reached, and all the backers are charged, but you still fail to make the purchase, or if you get it for less than was received, what do you do with all the money? Does Kickstarter allow you to refund all the backers if necessary?

Who would be in charge of setting it all up anyway?

What I know is that you need a credit card and it will be charged when the kickstarter ends and reached the desired amount xxx money.
If it fails nothing will be charged.
The other thing I believe is you need an actual company that is based in the US to start a kickstarter not sure about this part !
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Scourge of Ages on August 27, 2012, 03:05:16 pm
What I know is that you need a credit card and it will be charged when the kickstarter ends and reached the desired amount xxx money.
If it fails nothing will be charged.

I knew that, I was wondering what would happen if the Kickstarter succeeds, but the thing it was for (buying an IP) fails and all that money doesn't actually go where it was supposed to. Hopefully Sandwich will get an answer about that, for curiosity's sake.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: wuu on August 27, 2012, 03:10:50 pm
What I know is that you need a credit card and it will be charged when the kickstarter ends and reached the desired amount xxx money.
If it fails nothing will be charged.

I knew that, I was wondering what would happen if the Kickstarter succeeds, but the thing it was for (buying an IP) fails and all that money doesn't actually go where it was supposed to. Hopefully Sandwich will get an answer about that, for curiosity's sake.

Sorry about that I misread some part of it.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 27, 2012, 04:02:53 pm
I knew that, I was wondering what would happen if the Kickstarter succeeds, but the thing it was for (buying an IP) fails and all that money doesn't actually go where it was supposed to. Hopefully Sandwich will get an answer about that, for curiosity's sake.

The simplest answer would be to arrive at a written agreement with Interplay beforehand, where they agree to sell the IP for $XYZ if we can raise that sum by a certain date. If we don't manage to raise the sum via the kickstarter, then no cards are charged and nothing happens besides the media attention it might have garnered. If we do raise the sum, Interplay would be legally obligated to sell the IP. We could hire a lawyer to pound out said agreement if there's no lawyers among the community willing to contribute.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Goober5000 on August 27, 2012, 04:33:31 pm
The poll in this thread is not very likely to be useful.  When push comes to shove, what people say they'll donate and what they actually will donate are two different things.  For example, see the Mjn.Mixael Makes Characters (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74179.0) thread.  According to the poll, we should have raised $452; in fact it took several weeks for us to even raise $325.  That's only a 72% coverage ratio, or 64% if we exclude the $100 outlier.  (And 51 people who voted in the poll didn't even offer to contribute so much as $1.)

The best way to find out if a Kickstarter project will succeed is to actually make a Kickstarter project. :)
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Nuke on August 27, 2012, 04:40:01 pm
so we would need someone to set up the kickstarter, preferably with buisness experience. someone with contract writing experience to deal with all the legalese. and probibly some people to make all the phone calls negotiating a deal with interplay/volition/thq/whoever else. the kickstarter goal should cover all the expenses needed to pull it off as well. and assuming a us buisness license is needed you will probibly have to deal with payroll/taxes/whatever else just to make it all legit. catch is you have to do all that before you have the funding! have fun with that. at this point we dont even know how much were kicking for.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on August 27, 2012, 04:59:50 pm
So you guys are actually going to do this? Please respond, the derp is very curious and maybe exited! :P
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Nuke on August 27, 2012, 06:55:03 pm
i sure as hell aint. after all, you dont want to leave something like this in the hands of a raving misanthropic anti-social psychopath who cant finish a project if his life depended on it and would probibly take all the money and run to mexico, spending it on dope, tequila and whores for the remainder of the liver, if he was handed the check. nah you want someone like an american dekker who can charm people into doing what we want them to do.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: karajorma on August 27, 2012, 06:56:25 pm
The simplest answer would be to arrive at a written agreement with Interplay beforehand, where they agree to sell the IP for $XYZ if we can raise that sum by a certain date.

I think we should also check if :v: would be willing to develop the game should a kickstarter actually succeed. We've just been assuming that they would and that's a pretty enormous assumption.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: An4ximandros on August 27, 2012, 08:35:47 pm
Shouldn't a project like this be initiated out of :v: own volition?

We should get into contact with them and find out if they really care about such an endeavor enough to consider it, the legal limbo things have to go through is scary enough.

Plus there's no guarantee they'll even make FS3, they might end up with the license in an office box and not use it because their current publisher does not want to green light such a project.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 27, 2012, 08:40:01 pm
here's the HUGE problem i see with this (and most kickstarter ideas for that matter):

assume all that is outlined above gets done.  we even meet the kickstarter goal.  huzzah.  now, who else is going to buy it?  good luck getting :V: to develop something just on the break even promise.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Scourge of Ages on August 27, 2012, 08:48:42 pm
Shouldn't a project like this be initiated out of :v: own volition?

I see what you did there  :nod:


As an alternative to hoping  :v: would develop it on their own time (or convince THQ to sponsor it), is to just figure out who wrote FS 1 and 2, and contract them to write FS3. We (ie. you all) could do the actual production. The skill definitely exists here, especially if you were able to kickstart some funds to actually pay the coders and artists.

And then, having the rights to the IP, using all new assets, and with a :v:-made story, you could actually release it.

If any of this ever got past the wishful-thinking stage at least.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on August 27, 2012, 09:10:55 pm
This is promising, got all the famous people on a role, and an Fs3 topic reached over 5, FIVE pages.  :P
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: An4ximandros on August 27, 2012, 09:17:01 pm
Don't start daydreaming about it until we talked to Volition, trust me, it prevents massive disappointment.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on August 27, 2012, 09:45:40 pm
Don't start daydreaming about it until we talked to Volition, trust me, it prevents massive disappointment.
Don't worry, If they don't... thats fine with me. We've got an awesome community, with awesome mods, and some very cool people!  :nod:
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Goober5000 on August 27, 2012, 11:21:59 pm
The other thing we could do is just buy the license for ourselves and start selling all of our mods. :D
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Klaustrophobia on August 27, 2012, 11:35:21 pm
excuse me, i suddenly have a lot of downloading to do.
 :warp:
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Ulala on August 28, 2012, 12:54:45 am
The problem is that it's never anything new. So it goes nowhere and just annoys the regulars.

Kickstarter still feels somewhat new to me. And I feel it to be pretty often that I hear of "random project X" surprising everyone by raising way more than anyone ever thought it would. I'm not saying Freespace is necessarily one of those projects, but how can you know for certain if you don't try?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: The E on August 28, 2012, 02:11:53 am
You are aware that the discussion has moved beyond that point already? Yes? Good.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on August 28, 2012, 04:22:13 pm
The other thing we could do is just buy the license for ourselves and start selling all of our mods. :D
I hope your kidding.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Sandwich on August 28, 2012, 04:28:27 pm
The other thing we could do is just buy the license for ourselves and start selling all of our mods. :D
I hope your kidding.

The kidding does not belong to him.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Ulala on August 29, 2012, 02:07:26 am
You are aware that the discussion has moved beyond that point already? Yes? Good.

Sorry. Geez, the sheer hostility that is displayed around this subject makes me not even want to discuss it.

/me wanders off.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Rga_Noris on August 29, 2012, 10:06:50 am
So one misconception needs to be cleared up: Just because you raise the money for the rights to make FS3 happen, Interplay is, in no way, obligated to sell them to you. Also, if the community raised enough money to actually do so, there's a solid chance that interplay would keep the rights because you just proved that those rights have a real value.

Anyone who gives money to a kickstarter account that had zero control over what it promises is a fool.
US: Hey interplay! We have thousands of dollars of donated money to buy the rights to FS!

Interplay: Wow! People will pay just for a chance of a game? I think we would rather cash in on that, sorry to all your investors!

What you need to do is secure a business loan and by the rights. That way, interplay still sees it as a low potential product, and will be more inclined to sell it. Once you have the rights, use kickstarter to pay back the loan.

Still risky, but more plausible.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Kobrar44 on August 29, 2012, 10:13:57 am
So one misconception needs to be cleared up: Just because you raise the money for the rights to make FS3 happen, Interplay is, in no way, obligated to sell them to you.

The simplest answer would be to arrive at a written agreement with Interplay beforehand, where they agree to sell the IP for $XYZ if we can raise that sum by a certain date. If we don't manage to raise the sum via the kickstarter, then no cards are charged and nothing happens besides the media attention it might have garnered. If we do raise the sum, Interplay would be legally obligated to sell the IP. We could hire a lawyer to pound out said agreement if there's no lawyers among the community willing to contribute.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Rga_Noris on August 29, 2012, 10:54:33 am
I missed that.

Regardless, you are proposing the following:

US: Hey Interplay! If we prove the potential of the freespace ip, (read: get enough people to invest) will you give it up for a price that you agreed to before you knew its true value?

Any smart company would not agree to losing out like that. You are saying that if we don't get the interest and investments, Interplay stays where it is. If you start a kick starter and people go nuts, and you hit the goal in three minutes, then Interplay absorbs all the risk, hoping that they didn't just sell  cash cow for less than its worth.

Talk to interplay. Get price. Pay up front. Kickstarter to pay back loan/fund development. Minimizes interplays risk, we get the ip.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: The E on August 29, 2012, 11:00:39 am
Increases our risk because we would have to get the collateral to secure the loan, and would have to pay it out of our own hands if the Kickstarter fails.

We would ALSO have to convince a bank to get us the loan; this would require us making a real business plan that focusses on how we're going to make a game using the aquired IP that will make enough profit to pay back the investment, since we (or rather, the bank) cannot rely on the kickstarter succeeding.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Dragon on August 29, 2012, 11:14:38 am
Indeed, good luck finding a bank that would loan this amount of money, to a completely unknown customer, who lists a hit-or-miss fundraising site as business plan. Not in this decade, not in this economy. Not to mention that failure of the project would leave people who take this loan wearing an old barrel (to share...) and living under the bridge. Maybe Interplay is right, and this market is pretty much dead, HLP isn't exactly a large portion of the world's population.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Nuke on August 29, 2012, 11:28:40 am
maybe we should just get thq to buy out interplay. this would also secure the rights to other franchises, descent 4 for example (volition was supposed to get this one anyway, which is where red faction comes from, that was supposed to be the descent 4 engine).
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: 0rph3u5 on August 29, 2012, 11:39:45 am
maybe we should just get thq to buy out interplay.

As if THQ wasn't broke as well ...


ps. for the record: the only FS related crowdfunding I would dontate to would be to get the IP and lay the francise to rest, stopping ANYONE from screwing with it ... status quo isn't the best but it is better than throwing a sequel, reboot or what-have-you out there with nothing but the label "Freespace" on it ...
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Rga_Noris on August 29, 2012, 11:44:28 am
Exactly. Interplay will not want the risk. Neither do we.

For the record, great achievements often require do or die type risk. Sometimes you have to put it all on the line. I'm not saying its always required, just don't expect big things to happen without it. More often than not, you wind up disappointed.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: The E on August 29, 2012, 12:36:41 pm
Quote
For the record, great achievements often require do or die type risk. Sometimes you have to put it all on the line. I'm not saying its always required, just don't expect big things to happen without it. More often than not, you wind up disappointed.

As far as I am concerned, FS isn't such a situation. For me, anyway, and not when the status quo we do have isn't exactly bad.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Rga_Noris on August 29, 2012, 12:43:00 pm
I agree that the status quo isn't bad. I rather enjoy it. The thing is, even if the risk isn't huge, it is there no matter how you look at it. And if no one wants the risk, then it won't happen.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on August 29, 2012, 09:34:00 pm
"And if no one wants the risk, then it won't happen."
I'm willing to take the risk.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Droid803 on August 29, 2012, 09:54:28 pm
"And if no one wants the risk, then it won't happen."
I'm willing to take the risk.
Then fork over the money.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Rga_Noris on August 29, 2012, 10:16:19 pm
"And if no one wants the risk, then it won't happen."
I'm willing to take the risk.

How much money are you willing risk?

EDIT: forget it. This thread is, or should be, dead. The only remaining option?

SHARK TANK.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on August 29, 2012, 10:53:31 pm
"And if no one wants the risk, then it won't happen."
I'm willing to take the risk.

How much money are you willing risk?

EDIT: forget it. This thread is, or should be, dead. The only remaining option?

SHARK TANK.
I don't have much to risk. I'm still willing to contribute. It won't be much, but the whole things gotta start somewhere right? 
Where will the money go? What account? What site? I can't contribute if I don't know where to send the money too. Plus if I read the correctly you guys still have to talk too  :v: and Interplay before this entire thing starts...right, because I'm not going to start giving unless we have a go on buying the rights. Like Rga_norris said this thread should be dead. If we are going to continue these talks, and or have a community pitch in... we will need a new thread.

Its mainly up to you guys to get this started.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Nuke on August 30, 2012, 12:39:13 am
if the poll thus far is any indication then id say the idea probibly wouldn't work.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Rga_Noris on August 30, 2012, 01:00:23 am
/thread

Lock time.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: karajorma on August 30, 2012, 05:37:15 am
Just cause of that post, I'm going to unlock this thread if anyone locks it. No one tells me what to do. :p Oh, and for those you thinking of spamming in order to get me to close it, the ban button awaits. :p



Seriously though, don't backseat moderate. Obviously some people want to try this, so the thread stays open.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Rga_Noris on August 30, 2012, 08:34:28 am
I prefer the term side car moderate.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: mjn.mixael on August 30, 2012, 08:40:27 am
Just cause of that post, I'm going to unlock this thread if anyone locks it. No one tells me what to do.

I used to do that kind of thing to my parents when I was a kid... What's that Dad? Don't hit my brother? K... WHACK.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: jr2 on August 30, 2012, 10:54:28 am
Terrible sibling!  For shame!  :lol:
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Droid803 on August 30, 2012, 11:37:47 am
Oh people are definitely entitled to try and fail at this.
Definitely.

Wasting your own time is always an option.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Rga_Noris on August 30, 2012, 01:11:19 pm
Srsly tho shark tank.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: jr2 on August 30, 2012, 05:20:29 pm
LAWL...


(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_GtgWByasjdA/SAJ3rDotWLI/AAAAAAAAAFo/ZU-g18VuTek/s200/puddleglum.jpg)(http://i48.tinypic.com/aczx92.jpg)(http://gavinortlund.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/puddleglum.jpg)(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/Gaara.jpg)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheEeyore
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: karajorma on August 30, 2012, 10:18:47 pm
Seriously. Back on topic.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Dark RevenantX on September 01, 2012, 02:35:59 pm
Make a kickstarter campaign for a Freespace II spiritual sequel called Truespace III and then make it yourselves, then sell it for $30 per copy and go home wealthy.

Problem solved.  Hell, with the standard of writing in BP, you might as well be Obsidian except with far fewer bugs.  Hell, I bet Battuta could write a better FS3 than Volition could.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Nuke on September 01, 2012, 05:51:10 pm
lol, truespace. i think that name is taken up my some of our more archaic mod tools.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: FireSpawn on September 01, 2012, 06:46:06 pm
Wow, this thread is still going? I'm surprised that it's not been locked. *Looks at Karajorma's earlier post*...Or is going to be... :doubt:
Oh well, nothing like watching a train wreck from the front carriage!

lol, truespace. i think that name is taken up my some of our more archaic mod tools.

How about 'GleeSpace' where instead of fighting with lasers and missiles, you bombard the enemy comms with corny highschool teen angst, poor musical acts and fire large mannish looking cheerleading coaches at enemy ships?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: PKDecatur on October 16, 2012, 06:37:42 pm
Obsidian's Kickstarter is at $3.8 million, and with Paypal pledges it may be over $4 million. Chris Roberts' Star Citizen may move to it as well (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120162-Star-Citizen-Studio-Reconsiders-Kickstarter).

Kickstarter crowds would be definitely able to fund a FS3. The question I guess is getting the rights and the people back together.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Scourge of Ages on October 16, 2012, 08:53:08 pm
Obsidian's Kickstarter is at $3.8 million, and with Paypal pledges it may be over $4 million. Chris Roberts' Star Citizen may move to it as well (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120162-Star-Citizen-Studio-Reconsiders-Kickstarter).

Kickstarter crowds would be definitely able to fund a FS3. The question I guess is getting the rights and the people back together.

It's not a question of whether or not there are enough interested people, it's finding those interested people and saying "hey give us some money!". Just look at the Nexus 2 Kickstarter for proof of that. I'm sure there're enough people who want Nexus 2, they just don't follow Kickstarter religiously, and nobody is really talking about it.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: An4ximandros on October 16, 2012, 09:21:14 pm
Solution, send mail to Penny Arcade/[Favorite popular VG Webcomic] and hope for the best.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: PKDecatur on October 17, 2012, 11:08:03 am
FreeSpace has a lot more prestige and nostalgia than Nexus. Sorry, but to me Nexus is as interchangeable as X3 in terms of "real-time space tactics game that I really do not want to get into because it looks like one-player EVE Online and I'd rather have a Homeworld sequel, thanks." Freespace is a space sim, which was probably a bigger genre back in its heyday, anyway.  I really doubt that funding is any issue; it's just a matter of getting the license into the right hands of the people who can make an FS3.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: General Battuta on October 17, 2012, 11:39:55 am
FreeSpace has a lot more prestige and nostalgia than Nexus. Sorry, but to me Nexus is as interchangeable as X3 in terms of "real-time space tactics game that I really do not want to get into because it looks like one-player EVE Online and I'd rather have a Homeworld sequel, thanks." Freespace is a space sim, which was probably a bigger genre back in its heyday, anyway.  I really doubt that funding is any issue; it's just a matter of getting the license into the right hands of the people who can make an FS3.

Nexus is really distinct from X3 and EVE. It's closer to Homeworld crossed with the old Starfleet Command games.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 17, 2012, 12:17:07 pm
Nexus is actually much closer to Freespace than to X3 and EVE in that it is made of separate, strongly objective-oriented missions instead of working in an open world.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Mikes on October 17, 2012, 01:19:05 pm
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

good luck negotiating the rights from interplay.

The biggest hurdle , but how to approach a kickstarter campaign to make it possible I think is on par with to the get the rights from interplay.
Solution theory; make a Hard-light publishing studio comprised of hard light members, have a fund raiser or use some money that WE all have and buy the rights to freespace from interplay (which would cost an ass ton of money), say hey Volition we want you to make fs3. done.  :nod: They already said they would commit murder to make freespace 3.  ;)

If there was a hardlight publishing studio wanting to make a space sim...  why would you at this point limit yourself to a sequel and not make something new and unique instead?

Freespace 3 has so much baggage at this point that it would never please *all* or even a majority of the old veterans... and being a hardcore space sim (hardcore by todays gaming standards) it would very likely not fare well with the rest of the gaming world.

I doubt it would even be possible to make it a success...  too much paradoxes involved in that lol.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: HAZARDLEADER on October 18, 2012, 10:07:25 am
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

good luck negotiating the rights from interplay.

The biggest hurdle , but how to approach a kickstarter campaign to make it possible I think is on par with to the get the rights from interplay.
Solution theory; make a Hard-light publishing studio comprised of hard light members, have a fund raiser or use some money that WE all have and buy the rights to freespace from interplay (which would cost an ass ton of money), say hey Volition we want you to make fs3. done.  :nod: They already said they would commit murder to make freespace 3.  ;)

If there was a hardlight publishing studio wanting to make a space sim...  why would you at this point limit yourself to a sequel and not make something new and unique instead?

Freespace 3 has so much baggage at this point that it would never please *all* or even a majority of the old veterans... and being a hardcore space sim (hardcore by todays gaming standards) it would very likely not fare well with the rest of the gaming world.

I doubt it would even be possible to make it a success...  too much paradoxes involved in that lol.
Your right, but at the time of that post I really had no clue what was involved.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Seraph on October 24, 2012, 03:36:43 pm
http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/

Has anyone had the same idea as me to make a freespace mod server for star-citizen?

Yay? Nay?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: PKDecatur on January 10, 2013, 12:07:17 am
Planescape Torment is getting a sequel now: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/09/planescape-torment-sequel/

This is ridiculous. So many beloved '90s franchises are being revived. Why should FreeSpace deserve any less?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: headdie on January 10, 2013, 01:00:34 am
Planescape Torment is getting a sequel now: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/09/planescape-torment-sequel/

This is ridiculous. So many beloved '90s franchises are being revived. Why should FreeSpace deserve any less?

Bit of a necro there

There defiantly deserves to be another game in the FS franchise IMHO though some here would disagree with that on a number of grounds.  The thing is that the situation is a legal mess with a certain degree of the rights held by Interplay (who wont play ball on selling the rights from what we can tell) and :v: owned by THQ (another publisher) and being one of its most successful brands they wont be be relinquishing :v: any time soon.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 10, 2013, 01:04:40 am
Except THQ's probably going to get broken-up and sold-off at this point.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: headdie on January 10, 2013, 01:25:56 am
Except THQ's probably going to get broken-up and sold-off at this point.

in that case :v: will probably be sold off to EA or someone like that                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: FireSpawn on January 10, 2013, 05:39:45 am
Except THQ's probably going to get broken-up and sold-off at this point.

in that case :v: will probably be sold off to EA or someone like that                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

(http://ezrahub.com/board/img/1354140516366.jpg)
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: BengalTiger on January 16, 2013, 04:50:30 pm
Except THQ's probably going to get broken-up and sold-off at this point.

in that case :v: will probably be sold off to EA or someone like that                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

[img]

Why not? We'd have Freespace published every year like Battlefield.
Let's be optimistic for once. :P
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 16, 2013, 04:58:12 pm
You call that optimistic ? The best thing that could happen to Freespace is that it never gets published anymore, ever. EA or otherwise.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: SypheDMar on January 16, 2013, 05:41:27 pm
In all seriousness (which BengalTiger wasn't being), I concur with BengalTiger to a point.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Apollo on January 16, 2013, 07:08:42 pm
I personally would not want to see an official conclusion to the FreeSpace narrative. It would immediately invalidate all the SCP team's hard work and the storylines of every single post-capella mod.

As far as I'm concerned, FSO and FS3 are one and the same.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Scourge of Ages on January 16, 2013, 07:27:33 pm
I personally would not want to see an official conclusion to the FreeSpace narrative. It would immediately invalidate all the SCP team's hard work and the storylines of every single post-capella mod.
Let's just save us all a lot of trouble, and say that this can only happen if any individual decides it's so for them. It is not automatic. None of the post FS1 campaigns were invalidated by FS2, same would be for a hypothetical FS3. It might make it awkward, but wouldn't "invalidate" any mods or campaigns. This has been suggested many times before on this subject.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: SypheDMar on January 16, 2013, 09:00:56 pm
I personally would not want to see an official conclusion to the FreeSpace narrative. It would immediately invalidate all the SCP team's hard work and the storylines of every single post-capella mod.
It's been discussed to death, and the short answer is, "only if you let it."
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: KyadCK on January 16, 2013, 09:06:12 pm
Planescape Torment is getting a sequel now: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/09/planescape-torment-sequel/

This is ridiculous. So many beloved '90s franchises are being revived. Why should FreeSpace deserve any less?

Probably because we never died.  :nervous:

Seriously, mods like BluePlanet, Wings of Dawn, The Antagonist... These aren't good enough? Even on an engine that packs more features then some big-name games, and includes everything you need to make your own including a helpful community that can assist you and maybe even add features to the engine for you?

Not to mention, being OpenSource is one of FreeSpace's strongest assets. If a new game was made, it would eventually be outdated. No longer enough. FSO can continue to grow, out lasting and becoming stronger then any closed-source engine given enough time.

In my opinion, we do not need a sequel. As it stands, we can make our own ending, which is more then can be said for most games these days. And if what someone makes an "ending" you don't like? Well, it's just a mod, right? Find one you like more. ;)
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 17, 2013, 03:20:45 am
It's been discussed to death, and the short answer is, "only if you let it."
No. The only answer is "we don't need any of that ****". We don't need any new official Freespace release. Ever. End of discussion, please evacuate the thread.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Ulala on January 17, 2013, 03:35:00 am
What about, instead of another sequel, they made a genuine attempt at a reboot? It could suck, or it could be good like the new XCOM Enemy Unknown (not exactly the best comparison, I know). Just trying to think outside the box a little. :D
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 17, 2013, 03:39:05 am
The "it could suck" risk is waaaay too high for any kind of potential gain. "We don't need any of that ****" still stands.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Mongoose on January 17, 2013, 03:50:38 am
It's been discussed to death, and the short answer is, "only if you let it."
No. The only answer is "we don't need any of that ****". We don't need any new official Freespace release. Ever. End of discussion, please evacuate the thread.
May I kindly suggest that you refrain from unilaterally setting the parameters of the discussion going forward?  Kthx.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Black Wolf on January 17, 2013, 09:30:30 am
It's been discussed to death, and the short answer is, "only if you let it."
No. The only answer is "we don't need any of that ****". We don't need any new official Freespace release. Ever. End of discussion, please evacuate the thread.
May I kindly suggest that you refrain from unilaterally setting the parameters of the discussion going forward?  Kthx.

This.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Ulala on January 17, 2013, 05:12:14 pm
The "it could suck" risk is waaaay too high for any kind of potential gain. "We don't need any of that ****" still stands.

Oh..... ok.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Apollo on January 18, 2013, 01:15:57 am
I personally would not want to see an official conclusion to the FreeSpace narrative. It would immediately invalidate all the SCP team's hard work and the storylines of every single post-capella mod.
It's been discussed to death, and the short answer is, "only if you let it."

Yeah, I guess if you're willing to ignore canon it wouldn't affect them. It would kill immersion for me, but that's just the way I perceive things.

Let's just save us all a lot of trouble, and say that this can only happen if any individual decides it's so for them. It is not automatic. None of the post FS1 campaigns were invalidated by FS2, same would be for a hypothetical FS3. It might make it awkward, but wouldn't "invalidate" any mods or campaigns. This has been suggested many times before on this subject.

At this point, any mod with a storyline that doesn't contradict the established narrative can claim a small amount of canon plausibility, even if it will never become a canonical reality. FS3 would eliminate that and throw every post-capella campaign into alternate-universe territory, thereby invalidating their storylines in a canon sense.

And let's not forget that if FS3 was moddable enough (and it might well be) it would either (A) compete with the SCP and split FreeSpace mods between two different programs, making it significantly harder and costlier to play all of them, or (B) eliminate the SCP all together.

I stand by my original statement that FSO is a perfectly good, non storyline-crushing substitute for FS3.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Klaustrophobia on January 18, 2013, 07:01:18 pm
i'm really tired of seeing the "FS3 might ruin it for me, so no one should get it" argument.  that's your problem to deal with.  forgive my language, but if this ever WERE to happen,  :v: or whoever the devs end up being aren't going to give a flying **** about your issues with their story.

we've all played silent threat.  by a show of hands, who just ignores it (or further, replaces it with ST:R), and who thinks FS1 is forever ruined because they tacked on something bad after it?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Goober5000 on January 18, 2013, 11:34:38 pm
At this point, any mod with a storyline that doesn't contradict the established narrative can claim a small amount of canon plausibility, even if it will never become a canonical reality. FS3 would eliminate that and throw every post-capella campaign into alternate-universe territory, thereby invalidating their storylines in a canon sense.

And let's not forget that if FS3 was moddable enough (and it might well be) it would either (A) compete with the SCP and split FreeSpace mods between two different programs, making it significantly harder and costlier to play all of them, or (B) eliminate the SCP all together.

Is your enjoyment of Awakenings lessened by the fact that FS2 came out?
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: jr2 on January 19, 2013, 12:04:58 am
I personally would not want to see an official conclusion to the FreeSpace narrative. It would immediately invalidate all the SCP team's hard work and the storylines of every single post-capella mod.

As far as I'm concerned, FSO and FS3 are one and the same.

You never heard of alternate endings / fanfics?  It doesn't invalidate them... because they were never valid to begin with   /rant  EDIT: I mean, they aren't canon, stop pretending they are, and therefore, as fanfic, they aren't "invalidated"... they become another dimension of the story universe... and they can exist simultaneously, if your mind is big enough.  :P

EDIT:

At this point, any mod with a storyline that doesn't contradict the established narrative can claim a small amount of canon plausibility, even if it will never become a canonical reality. FS3 would eliminate that and throw every post-capella campaign into alternate-universe territory, thereby invalidating their storylines in a canon sense.

And let's not forget that if FS3 was moddable enough (and it might well be) it would either (A) compete with the SCP and split FreeSpace mods between two different programs, making it significantly harder and costlier to play all of them, or (B) eliminate the SCP all together.

Is your enjoyment of Awakenings lessened by the fact that FS2 came out?

^^  This... So much this.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: mjn.mixael on January 19, 2013, 12:10:09 am
I suspect what people are trying to get at is this.

FS2 was open-ended. In general it seems most people expect an FS3 would answer a lot of the unanswered questions that many mods were based on. But more importantly, it would answer a lot of the unanswered questions that have been burning in many of us since the first time we finished FS2 and craved for more, More, MORE. Voila.. HLP.. and we made more.

It seems to me that several people are suggesting that if an FS3 was made that did answer a lot of the unanswered FS2 questions, it might temper the fire that has kept FS alive for a decade.

I neither agree nor disagree with the statements, just trying to clarify what I've been reading.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: jr2 on January 19, 2013, 01:04:55 am
I always rather figured that FS3 would answer some questions, yes, but pose a lot more.  That's just good story-telling there. (At least if you want to keep 'em coming back for more!)
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 19, 2013, 01:53:56 am
I always rather figured that FS3 would answer some questions, yes, but pose a lot more.  That's just good story-telling there. (At least if you want to keep 'em coming back for more!)
That's the kind of idealism that makes that we can't have nice things.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Apollo on January 19, 2013, 04:44:40 pm
i'm really tired of seeing the "FS3 might ruin it for me, so no one should get it" argument.  that's your problem to deal with.  forgive my language, but if this ever WERE to happen,  :v: or whoever the devs end up being aren't going to give a flying **** about your issues with their story.

we've all played silent threat.  by a show of hands, who just ignores it (or further, replaces it with ST:R), and who thinks FS1 is forever ruined because they tacked on something bad after it?

I never said that I thought FS3 would suck, I just didn't want to see it for other reasons. Please read my post before you comment on it.

I accept Silent Threat as canon, although ST:R is so similar in terms of storyline that I would have no difficulty playing a mod using it instead of Silent Threat.

I'm not making any concerted effort to prevent the development of FS3, and I never insulted you, so would you please calm the **** down? Getting combative over someone else's opinion about a computer game is goddamn ridiculous.*
You never heard of alternate endings / fanfics?  It doesn't invalidate them... because they were never valid to begin with   /rant  EDIT: I mean, they aren't canon, stop pretending they are, and therefore, as fanfic, they aren't "invalidated"... they become another dimension of the story universe... and they can exist simultaneously, if your mind is big enough.  :P

Mods aren't canon, but in most cases they also don't contradict canon, making them more believable than some alternate universe thing. Make FS3, and nearly every post-capella mod will contradict canon.

Quote
EDIT:

Is your enjoyment of Awakenings lessened by the fact that FS2 came out?

^^  This... So much this.

I haven't played Awakenings, but if it contradicts FS2 than it would.

I can still enjoy Destiny of Peace and other post-FS1 campaigns, but it really kills immersion for me if they contradict canon too much.

*If you can get mad at me for stupid reasons than I can reply harshly... right? :nervous: Don't wanna get banned.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Klaustrophobia on January 19, 2013, 05:14:28 pm
That wasn't directly at you, it was for everyone who is adamant FS3 should not be made because it will "ruin" what we already have.  It happens EVERY time fs3 is mentioned.  "I don't want it, so it should never be made.  End of discussion."  This is FAR more irritating to me than the "will it ever happen?" question. 

If there WAS a person in this thread my post was more directed at, it would be matth.
Title: Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Post by: Apollo on January 19, 2013, 05:17:42 pm
That wasn't directly at you, it was for everyone who is adamant FS3 should not be made because it will "ruin" what we already have.  It happens EVERY time fs3 is mentioned.  "I don't want it, so it should never be made.  End of discussion."  This is FAR more irritating to me than the "will it ever happen?" question. 

If there WAS a person in this thread my post was more directed at, it would be matth.
OK. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

For what it's worth, I'm not completely against the idea of a FS3, although I do feel the problems outweigh the benefits. But that's just my personal opinion.