Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: achtung on July 20, 2013, 12:32:48 am

Title: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: achtung on July 20, 2013, 12:32:48 am
get hype (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/20/gearbox-announces-homeworld-homeworld-2-hd-remakes)
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 20, 2013, 12:47:40 am
Get Hype-erspace.

I'm Hype-erspaced.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Klaustrophobia on July 20, 2013, 12:50:06 am
hey sweet, now i'll probably actually play them.

well, maybe.  how close is the gameplay to Nexus?  it was fine up until the point i had to start controlling multiple ships and play rock paper scissors with weapons and defenses.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: An4ximandros on July 20, 2013, 12:50:59 am
I have lost my ability to even...

Klaus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_bANBOZioY (HW1 Gameplay)
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Fury on July 20, 2013, 12:54:50 am
If they're just gonna re-do the games with prettier graphics while leaving everything else the same, I'm not interested. But if these remakes actually improve gameplay, then hell yes.

Klaustrophobia, watch youtube gameplay videos.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 20, 2013, 01:14:47 am
But if these remakes actually improve gameplay, then hell yes.

You cannot improve perfection, etc.

No word on Cataclysm?
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Scourge of Ages on July 20, 2013, 01:16:50 am
Heh ha ha heh! Called it! (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=84414.msg1686383#msg1686383)

If they're just gonna re-do the games with prettier graphics while leaving everything else the same, I'm not interested. But if these remakes actually improve gameplay, then hell yes.

That's exactly what I'm interested in (though I'll admit the interface in both games could use some work, sure).
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Fury on July 20, 2013, 01:25:44 am
But if these remakes actually improve gameplay, then hell yes.

You cannot improve perfection, etc.

No word on Cataclysm?
What bull**** are you spewing now? Cataclysm was not originally developed by Relic, but Barking Dog Studios and thus is probably excluded from the deal.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 20, 2013, 02:29:10 am
While I wouldn't want the gameplay mechanics to be touched, HW1's game interface can definitely use a huge overhaul. Game interface was one of the most significant major improvements in HW2.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 20, 2013, 03:13:05 am
What bull**** are you spewing now?

That your bittervet attitude has been old for the past several months, get a new gimmick.

Also, it's still a Homeworld product and it was still being distributed not too long ago, so Gearbox buying it as well isn't exactly crazy.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 20, 2013, 03:52:07 am
Cata is also the most replayable of the three, despite what the haters can say.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Fury on July 20, 2013, 04:21:39 am
That your bittervet attitude has been old for the past several months, get a new gimmick.
Oh really now, look who's talking.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 20, 2013, 04:32:25 am
May I suggest handbags at dawn.



Younger forumites should be excused the belief that cataclysm may be updated as not everyone understands the publisher / developer difference.



I for one will be all over an HD HW1 remake like Whitney Houston on crack.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: The E on July 20, 2013, 05:43:30 am
That your bittervet attitude has been old for the past several months, get a new gimmick.
Oh really now, look who's talking.

Stop it, both of you.

EDIT: In a previous version of this post, I accidentally made a snipe at Mattthegeek. This was based on me misreading the report email. I deeply and sincerely apologize.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Deepstar on July 20, 2013, 07:34:06 am
I think that Homeworld 1 was better than Homeworld 2, at least gameplay wise. I remember, that Homeworld 2 has some sort of Dynamic-Difficulty Setting in Story mode, that means, the game gets harder if you build more ships... on the other hand it was way to easy if you build nothing.

Dynamic Difficulty is a no go... Gothic 3, Morrowind, Need for Speed, Prey... all of them could be better without this.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 20, 2013, 08:05:07 am
I remember, that Homeworld 2 has some sort of Dynamic-Difficulty Setting in Story mode, that means, the game gets harder if you build more ships...
All three games did that.

Or at least, both HW1 and HW2. Not so sure about Cata, but it also had a general difficulty setting you select at the beginning of the campaign, that neither of the other two had.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Luis Dias on July 20, 2013, 08:09:19 am
Cata is also the most replayable of the three, despite what the haters can say.

Hear Hear! Although Homeworld 2 was a lot nicer in terms of visual pleasantness (and actually the visuals of HW2 did improve the gameplay, some situations were more cumbersome in Cata because the engine wasn't able to render sufficient enough ships on screen and did things like really close fog, etc.).

But I love these news! I *am* hyped! :yes:


PS: Although I'm somewhat confused. What do they mean by "HD" ? Larger textures? Turning 256px textures into 1024? That's it or will it involve actually new models, new maps (normal mapping, shine mapping, etc.?), even new ships or gameplay?

My confusion stems from the fact that they are saying they will also release the original games as they were.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 20, 2013, 08:22:52 am
Or at least, both HW1 and HW2. Not so sure about Cata, but it also had a general difficulty setting you select at the beginning of the campaign, that neither of the other two had.

HW1 only did it in the last couple of missions to noticeable effect, HW2 completely blew the concept.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 20, 2013, 08:28:40 am
Wrong. I used to cheat and give me infinite resources. If you buy enough ships you get a couple dozen assault frigates attacking the cryo pods as soon as mission 3. And 3-4 dozens turanic ion array frigates in mission 4.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Lorric on July 20, 2013, 09:06:22 am
Or at least, both HW1 and HW2. Not so sure about Cata, but it also had a general difficulty setting you select at the beginning of the campaign, that neither of the other two had.

HW1 only did it in the last couple of missions to noticeable effect, HW2 completely blew the concept.
But if these remakes actually improve gameplay, then hell yes.

You cannot improve perfection, etc.

Hmmm...
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Deepstar on July 20, 2013, 10:04:53 am
I can not remember that this was in HW1 and Cata. I remember that i finished Homeworld with a giant fleet i build up during previous missions that overrun the enemy positions without a problem, this game was more difficult at the beginning of the campaign where do you not have enough resources in a mission area to build many ships.
But in Homeworld 2 i was overrun by superior forces right in the second mission after i take time to build up a fleet in the first.


And in Cata i only remember this in one mission, because it was a story requirement. It was the mission where the Beast awakes, if you have a lot of ships around it, the beast will overtake them completely and the mission will be a hell lot harder. But later it was only more difficult if you are losing to much ships to the beast, of course. But as far as i remember, the strenght of the enemy at the start of the mission was always the same, regardless how many ships you have.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: SpardaSon21 on July 20, 2013, 10:25:30 am
I'm just hoping the HD remakes have mod support. :nervous:
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 20, 2013, 11:55:26 am
I am ashamed for not having given a thought to that.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 20, 2013, 08:16:43 pm
Wrong. I used to cheat and give me infinite resources.

If you have to cheat to get a noticeable effect, then I'm not wrong at all. Try again plz?
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MP-Ryan on July 20, 2013, 08:18:05 pm
-snip-

NGTM-1R is right.  Homeworld had dynamic difficulty in the later missions - you get a lot more thrown at you in the last two with a stronger fleet build.

Homeworld 2 was idiotic.  There are two ways to make it play fair:  max build your fleet at the end of every mission, or self-destruct everything at the end of every mission.  Anything in between and the dynamic difficulty would flatten you.  Mission 4 exemplified this; it's where the difficulty curve went off the rails.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 20, 2013, 08:35:05 pm
Hmmm...

It is merely hard for you to separate "mechanics" from "play" or are you simply trying to snipe at me for the sake of sniping?

The HW1 and 2 (and Cata) gameplay, the stuff you interact with, that was good. The HW2 mechanics, the stuff you don't interact with, was crazy.

The more you know!
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: StarSlayer on July 20, 2013, 08:40:39 pm
I found my fleet mix of Destroyers and Torp Frigates got me through most of HW2.  The Keepers, Thaddis Sabbah both were ground under unrelenting waves torpedoes and destroyer broadsides, then Balcora Gate...

I still have nightmares of having to send the majority of my fleet to go protect the damn portal while two BCs and the Dread somehow tried to stop the giant swarms of Vaygr Battlecruisers that where thrown at my mothership like confetti.  I've got the damn resources to stop these bastards if they would just lift the damn unit caps!
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Beskargam on July 20, 2013, 09:00:02 pm
Cata is also the most replayable of the three, despite what the haters can say.

Hear Hear! Although Homeworld 2 was a lot nicer in terms of visual pleasantness (and actually the visuals of HW2 did improve the gameplay, some situations were more cumbersome in Cata because the engine wasn't able to render sufficient enough ships on screen and did things like really close fog, etc.).

But I love these news! I *am* hyped! :yes:


PS: Although I'm somewhat confused. What do they mean by "HD" ? Larger textures? Turning 256px textures into 1024? That's it or will it involve actually new models, new maps (normal mapping, shine mapping, etc.?), even new ships or gameplay?

My confusion stems from the fact that they are saying they will also release the original games as they were.

If they do what was done to age of empires II HD, then there is only going to be marginal improvement in the graphics department.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Lorric on July 20, 2013, 09:05:54 pm
NGTM-1R is right.  Homeworld had dynamic difficulty in the later missions - you get a lot more thrown at you in the last two with a stronger fleet build.

Homeworld 2 was idiotic.  There are two ways to make it play fair:  max build your fleet at the end of every mission, or self-destruct everything at the end of every mission.  Anything in between and the dynamic difficulty would flatten you.  Mission 4 exemplified this; it's where the difficulty curve went off the rails.

This makes me feel better about not being able to get any further than that on Homeworld 2. I utterly despise dynamic difficulty. I didn't know it was in there, would never have been bought if I did.

Hmmm...

It is merely hard for you to separate "mechanics" from "play" or are you simply trying to snipe at me for the sake of sniping?

The HW1 and 2 (and Cata) gameplay, the stuff you interact with, that was good. The HW2 mechanics, the stuff you don't interact with, was crazy.

The more you know!

It's the same for me. That mechanic has changed the gameplay for the worse. Remove it and the gameplay changes for the better.

You dislike me enough as it is, what good would it do me to increase that dislike? If I was attacking you, you'd know. I'd rather be your friend than enemy.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: StarSlayer on July 20, 2013, 09:37:33 pm
NGTM-1R is right.  Homeworld had dynamic difficulty in the later missions - you get a lot more thrown at you in the last two with a stronger fleet build.

Homeworld 2 was idiotic.  There are two ways to make it play fair:  max build your fleet at the end of every mission, or self-destruct everything at the end of every mission.  Anything in between and the dynamic difficulty would flatten you.  Mission 4 exemplified this; it's where the difficulty curve went off the rails.

This makes me feel better about not being able to get any further than that on Homeworld 2. I utterly despise dynamic difficulty. I didn't know it was in there, would never have been bought if I did.


I actually wish dynamic difficulty was used more often.  Mind you it needs to be scaled properly and in HW2's case it wasn't, but it certainly would make certain games a lot better.   Fallout 3 would be my prime example.  When I left the Vault the wide wide world was a scary ****ing place.  Pretty much everything in the Capital wasteland could kill me dead.  My aim sucked and my firearms did as well, and every single round I found was a pot of friggen gold.  Even a quarter of the way through things were still interesting.  The first Deathclaw I encountered brushed off two missile hits and then swatted me into multiple pieces with casual ease. 

Then I levelled up to max...  I could murderate everything without batting an eye.  Power Armoured squads of Enclave?  I vaporize them.  Fire Ants?  I squash under boot.  Death Claws?  Blackhawked at 20 paces with contemptuous ease.  Remember when every bit of trash I could scrounge up was the difference between life or death?  I wanted for nothing now in terms of supplies.  I couldn't even sell things anymore none of the traders had money left to buy them.  Hell I had enough stuff to open Costco and make myself a wasteland wholesale store magnate.  I could make suits of power armour out of caps for Christ sake.

What started as a game of being scared ****less and running away lost pretty much all interest once I became the Demi God of DC.  I callously stalked the wasteland certain that anything in my way would be smote with impunity and I was bored  senseless.  That's were dynamic difficulty would have saved the day and the game.

Without resistance there is nothing but stagnation.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Lorric on July 20, 2013, 09:40:57 pm
It's not a game I've played, but it sounds like a game which could use changeable difficulty. Just pop up the difficulty a notch or two.

I also hate games being too easy. It sucks all the fun out of them for me.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Klaustrophobia on July 20, 2013, 09:52:08 pm
NGTM-1R is right.  Homeworld had dynamic difficulty in the later missions - you get a lot more thrown at you in the last two with a stronger fleet build.

Homeworld 2 was idiotic.  There are two ways to make it play fair:  max build your fleet at the end of every mission, or self-destruct everything at the end of every mission.  Anything in between and the dynamic difficulty would flatten you.  Mission 4 exemplified this; it's where the difficulty curve went off the rails.

This makes me feel better about not being able to get any further than that on Homeworld 2. I utterly despise dynamic difficulty. I didn't know it was in there, would never have been bought if I did.


I actually wish dynamic difficulty was used more often.  Mind you it needs to be scaled properly and in HW2's case it wasn't, but it certainly would make certain games a lot better.   Fallout 3 would be my prime example.  When I left the Vault the wide wide world was a scary ****ing place.  Pretty much everything in the Capital wasteland could kill me dead.  My aim sucked and my firearms did as well, and every single round I found was a pot of friggen gold.  Even a quarter of the way through things were still interesting.  The first Deathclaw I encountered brushed off two missile hits and then swatted me into multiple pieces with casual ease. 

Then I levelled up to max...  I could murderate everything without batting an eye.  Power Armoured squads of Enclave?  I vaporize them.  Fire Ants?  I squash under boot.  Death Claws?  Blackhawked at 20 paces with contemptuous ease.  Remember when every bit of trash I could scrounge up was the difference between life or death?  I wanted for nothing now in terms of supplies.  I couldn't even sell things anymore none of the traders had money left to buy them.  Hell I had enough stuff to open Costco and make myself a wasteland wholesale store magnate.  I could make suits of power armour out of caps for Christ sake.

What started as a game of being scared ****less and running away lost pretty much all interest once I became the Demi God of DC.  I callously stalked the wasteland certain that anything in my way would be smote with impunity and I was bored  senseless.  That's were dynamic difficulty would have saved the day and the game.

Without resistance there is nothing but stagnation.

on the flip side of that, if everything gets proportionally harder every time you level up, the whole leveling system becomes utterly pointless. 
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Lorric on July 20, 2013, 09:55:01 pm
on the flip side of that, if everything gets proportionally harder every time you level up, the whole leveling system becomes utterly pointless.

Indeed. That is my biggest gripe with dynamic difficulty. It punishes you for getting better, when you should be rewarded. With scaling difficulty set by you, you can climb the ladder and see tangible results of your improvement.

For instance, this is why I think Crash Team Racing is far, far, FAR superior to Mario Kart.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on July 20, 2013, 11:09:38 pm
As long as they leave the cutscenes alone. (or just up-rez them)
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Sarafan on July 20, 2013, 11:37:15 pm
This is great news but its going to depend on far they go into remaking it.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 21, 2013, 01:20:12 am
Have you guys even tried to update HW2 to 1.1. Most of the difficulty scaling was removed in the patch.

To a point where it became ridiculously easy, tbh.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Polpolion on July 21, 2013, 01:22:39 am
HW2 doesn't look bad enough and isn't good enough to justify purchasing an HD remake, but I've been needing an excuse to give HW1 another shot. Considering I don't "have" HW1 this may just be a great excuse to get it. It has, in my opinion, some of the coolest looking space ships ever designed for video games.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 21, 2013, 01:24:57 am
Asymmetrical designs are the best. It's something most other spaceship universes have utterly and laughably failed to realize yet.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Polpolion on July 22, 2013, 12:14:26 am
http://shipyards.relicnews.com/concept/images/display.htm?r2carrier.jpg
http://shipyards.relicnews.com/concept/images/display.htm?prod_hw_screens_c_9.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/No1HG/AK_corvette.jpg

Yeah, I'm looking forward to an HW remake. A revised interface will be great, too.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: An4ximandros on July 22, 2013, 12:18:48 am
<3 Taiidan carrier.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: TrashMan on July 22, 2013, 01:46:24 am
on the flip side of that, if everything gets proportionally harder every time you level up, the whole leveling system becomes utterly pointless.

Indeed. That is my biggest gripe with dynamic difficulty. It punishes you for getting better, when you should be rewarded. With scaling difficulty set by you, you can climb the ladder and see tangible results of your improvement.

Interesting use of the word punishment.

I wonder what players actualyl classify as punishment? Anything that doesn't go their way?

Frankly, the biggest problem is always the leveling and redicolous pwoer disparity. If you become so much stronger with each level, then balancing will ALWAYS be a b****.
That's why I was always weary of systems that lets you become a Death God. It's boring and pointless. Not to mention silly.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: An4ximandros on July 22, 2013, 01:56:13 am
Punishing is when you preemptively cap out your fleet in preparation for the next level which is made to overwhelm you and instead of having a tense long lasting, strategic standoff the enemy has ten thousand bombers and fifteen battleships despite you being caped to approximately an eight of what the AI gets for free. Whoever designed the Thaddis Sabbath mission, I hate you. I never got past that. In fact, I dropped the whole Vanilla game at that point.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: crizza on July 22, 2013, 05:55:08 am
I always loved the design of the Homeworld ships.
The destroyers of the first game were my favorites :)
And on the punishment section: I found it normal, you're fighting against a god damn empire with a ragtag fleet of exiles, so what?
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: The E on July 22, 2013, 06:08:49 am
The problem is that it punishes you extensively for being good at the game.

If you have the economy fully figured out, if you have an optimized fleet mix, the game will reward you by throwing an ever increasing number of Battlecruisers in your face while severely restricting your own fleet.

Avoiding the player becoming a god of death and always giving the player interesting challenges are very hard things to do in game design. Relic chose a very simplistic, brute force model to make it work here, and it shows.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Polpolion on December 27, 2013, 02:50:32 pm
http://www.polygon.com/2013/12/26/5245828/gearbox-posts-homeworld-survey-hints-at-collectors-edition

Gearbox has posted a survey about what people would want out of a collector's edition. At the very least they're still working on everything.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 27, 2013, 02:53:55 pm
The actual survey is here. Want to influence the cost of Homeworld HD? (https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/QZGG77X)
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: StarSlayer on December 27, 2013, 03:30:53 pm
Aw man if it came with a Qwaar-Jet it would be an implacable temptation to resist.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 27, 2013, 03:57:58 pm
I admit, I'd buy one with an original Mothership or Destroyer in a heartbeat, though I ranked that last.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Scourge of Ages on December 27, 2013, 05:51:38 pm
Quote from: Survey
- Updated high-res textures and models
- New graphical and post-processing effects
- Animated cutscenes re-created in HD by the original artists
- New and re-mastered music by the original composer
- Steamworks matchmaking and achievements
- Additional support for user-created mods
- Plus other improvements! (TBD)

Sounds pretty swee-

Quote
- Animated cutscenes re-created in HD by the original artists

-eeeeeet? Eh? Oh, original artists. Cool.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 28, 2013, 12:55:34 am
Quote from: Survey
- Additional support for user-created mods
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/7f/7fa6b0be9d5614e6e8aa57089f47c718ec462a462188bb1b058a1456cfd02d12.jpg)
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: TwentyPercentCooler on December 28, 2013, 09:20:09 am
Mod support, too?

Me gusta mucho.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: -Joshua- on December 28, 2013, 12:41:42 pm
on the flip side of that, if everything gets proportionally harder every time you level up, the whole leveling system becomes utterly pointless.

Indeed. That is my biggest gripe with dynamic difficulty. It punishes you for getting better, when you should be rewarded. With scaling difficulty set by you, you can climb the ladder and see tangible results of your improvement.

Mass Effect had scalable difficulties, but instead of making individual mooks harder (although they did that in some ways), they mostly increased the amount of enemies you faced, thus making stuff more difficult whilst actually giving you more gratification.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: The E on December 28, 2013, 12:44:30 pm
And HomeWorld 2 showed how utterly ridiculous this sort of autobalancing can get (It is one of the few games that actively punishes you for being good at the game!)
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: StarSlayer on December 28, 2013, 01:54:33 pm
And HomeWorld 2 showed how utterly ridiculous this sort of autobalancing can get (It is one of the few games that actively punishes you for being good at the game!)

Balcora...

/me shudders
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Hades on December 28, 2013, 03:50:43 pm
That's partially due to balance as well though, to be fair. Homeworld 1 did the same thing, though a bit less severe, and it wasn't a problem. Small ships had a place in HW1 as opposed to them in HW2.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Mika on December 31, 2013, 07:47:56 am
Given that this is coming from Gearbox, I'd be vary of everything they say. Especially on what it comes to franchises not developed in-house. And forget modding at this point, recent examples demonstrate Gearbox just doesn't allow that.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: The E on December 31, 2013, 08:31:28 am
Right, because going back on one of the cornerstone promises would be such a good move for them at this point.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 31, 2013, 09:00:55 am
Especially on what it comes to franchises not developed in-house.
Err, they bought the license. HW can't be more in-house than that now.

Look, if you want to hate Gearbox, try to find good reasons at least. You're not even trying.

So far they've given only reasons to hope and none to fear.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Fury on December 31, 2013, 10:31:31 am
Small ships had a place in HW1 as opposed to them in HW2.
Nope.

You could play the campaign with just frigates and bigger as soon as frigates became available. It wasn't the most optimal setup of course, but fuel in strike-craft was annoying enough for me to forget about them as soon as I could. Fights may have taken longer but I still barely ever lost a ship.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 31, 2013, 10:46:45 am
HW2 had a very strong "frigates don't last 2 sec in front of anything larger than them and are therefore completely and utterly useless" problem that HW1 didn't have.

HW2 also had a "interceptors can't do a scratch against frigates and above" syndrome that HW1 didn't have (if you had enough interceptors you could nail even heavy cruisers quickly and decisively), but that is part of the more fundamental and very strong rock-paper-scissor balancing in HW2.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: StarSlayer on December 31, 2013, 11:08:41 am
HW2 frigates were fragile true but if you maxed out strictly on torp frigates and a pair of shield frigates and had them focus fire they could tear pretty much anything up in short order.

Torpedo Tsunami.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Mika on December 31, 2013, 12:09:41 pm
Recent Gearbox games are Duke Nukem Forever (modding tools promised) and Aliens: Colonial Marines (modding tools promised). Additionally, that other shooting game II whose name I forgot, but they never said it would contain the mod tools.

Guess what happened?

So, really, don't count on the mods. I really mean it, Gearbox has taken steps to actively prevent it from happening on both cases of DNF and A:CM. Look for duke4.net to see the butthurt.

I just wanted to mention this, you may still like their take on HW.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: The E on December 31, 2013, 03:51:38 pm
One issue: Neither of those games were ever advertised as having mod support. Neither had modding communities.

Saying that modding was never a priority for them is totally fair. But do you really think that after all that happened with Aliens: Colonial Marines, they would actively and knowingly lie to their customers again?
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: General Battuta on December 31, 2013, 03:53:08 pm
Well...yeah.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 31, 2013, 04:08:40 pm
Perhaps. But not from the very beginning. Gearbox can't really hold the franchise hostage in their current state, if they bomb it will be assumed to be their fault and somebody else will be happy to step in.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Luis Dias on December 31, 2013, 05:04:40 pm
Ahh DNF... what a marvelous game. I feel a lot relieved to know this dev studio is remaking one of the finest games ever made on the pc.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: BritishShivans on December 31, 2013, 05:19:28 pm
Except if Gearbox fails to remake the game well enough/****s it up, it's likely that their failure will take them down. And while I'd rather not that Homeworld just... well, disappears again or something, I feel that the schadenfreude from such a situation would be adequate compensation.

 :drevil:
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Phantom Hoover on December 31, 2013, 08:00:29 pm
But do you really think that after all that happened with Aliens: Colonial Marines, they would actively and knowingly lie to their customers again?

it is absolutely imperative that we as consumers be even-handed and prepared to give a second chance to companies that deceive and exploit us
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: BritishShivans on December 31, 2013, 08:37:53 pm
also what phantom said too  :yes:
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Mika on January 01, 2014, 05:03:32 am
One issue: Neither of those games were ever advertised as having mod support. Neither had modding communities.

Saying that modding was never a priority for them is totally fair. But do you really think that after all that happened with Aliens: Colonial Marines, they would actively and knowingly lie to their customers again?

Actually, you are wrong. At least DNF was promised to have mod support, but it's probably bit more convoluted, as the promise seems to originate from 3DRealms and not from Gearbox. You are also mistaken in the belief that DNF wouldn't have modding community. The reason it does not exist is solely Gearbox, they have done everything to make the game unmoddable - even more so with updates (http://forums.duke4.net/topic/4719-heres-how-to-enable-the-sos-console-after-the-patch-this-is-the-last-time-i-am-bothering-if-gearbox-tries-to-remove-it-again/). This has more to do with Gearbox selling downloadable content later on, and I really don't see why they wouldn't keep on going that way. Please note that the site is actually a modding community for Duke Nukem 3D, and these guys would be happy to work with anything more modern than Build engine. A lot of people were furious about DNF not having the tools, they really wanted to fix the darn game themselves, but no such luck. The same thing with A:CM.

Also, a lot of people thought they give Gearbox a second chance with A:CM after DNF was released. So in my opinion, Gearbox has already been given the second chance where they knowing lied to their customers.

I don't know what to make of this, though. Since Gearbox is already in legal trouble over A:CM, for me them acquiring Homeworld rights sort of sounds like an intermediate source of cash. Nothing wrong in that in itself, but given the recent history, I'm very skeptical about the outcome. Of the original announcement, I don't actually see where the modding support has been promised by the Gearbox. They have released a survey, but that's not the same as commitment. In their forums, one of their developer says some of the tools have been developed, but again, whether those tools are included in the release is another thing.

The company's history shows they want to sell DLC instead. At least I'd actually wait for the reviews before giving any money to them.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Luis Dias on January 01, 2014, 05:07:46 am
I have a bad feeling about this.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Mongoose on January 01, 2014, 12:26:21 pm
The company's history shows they want to sell DLC instead.
At least in the general sense, how does a company selling DLC for a game preclude releasing modding tools for said game?
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: General Battuta on January 01, 2014, 12:34:02 pm
Modding tools often let people bypass the gates that keep the DLC locked to paying users - even implement the DLC wholesale as a free mod. Or so some companies seem to believe.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Dragon on January 01, 2014, 12:40:00 pm
The whole concept of a "paywall" in a normal computer program is ridiculous. DLC should not consist of a key to content that is already there. TBH, I haven't seen anyone do that yet, all DLCs I have required me to, you know, download something.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Fury on January 01, 2014, 12:42:23 pm
Or more simply, free content in the form of mods means paid DLC may no longer be wanted.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: General Battuta on January 01, 2014, 01:10:21 pm
The whole concept of a "paywall" in a normal computer program is ridiculous. DLC should not consist of a key to content that is already there. TBH, I haven't seen anyone do that yet, all DLCs I have required me to, you know, download something.

You probably have seen a bunch of people do it, depending on which games you play. Any multiplayer game with DLC must provide the content to all users so they can see it in their games - a DLC gun pack, for example, has to be available to all clients paying the game, even those who haven't bought the pack. Even cosmetic DLC must be provided even to non-paying users so that they can see the content when paying users display their flair.

Another reason that mod tools have fallen out of favor with a number of AAA releases is that their engines require enormous server infrastructure or proprietary, licensed software in order to bake assets into usable forms. Battlefield 3 and 4, for instance, literally cannot build levels without some kind of nightmare render farm that exists only at DICE HQ.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Dragon on January 01, 2014, 01:34:25 pm
You probably have seen a bunch of people do it, depending on which games you play. Any multiplayer game with DLC must provide the content to all users so they can see it in their games - a DLC gun pack, for example, has to be available to all clients paying the game, even those who haven't bought the pack. Even cosmetic DLC must be provided even to non-paying users so that they can see the content when paying users display their flair.
Well, I don't play MP games much, but I've actually seen something like that in ArmAII, except done right. They included low-res versions of their smaller DLCs into a (free) patch. You could play with them normally, but they looked and sounded like crap. Not to unplayable levels, though, they wouldn't stand out if you just set graphics to "low". In short, bare minimum, but fully usable in both custom missions and MP. With DLC installed, you also got a whole new campaign, a bunch of missions and much higher quality assets.

Most of the other games I've seen seem to just set restrictions like "You can't play unless you have expansion X version ###" on a given server. Seems to work well enough, at least as long as you don't have a million tiny DLCs that each add 1 weapon or so.

Now that I think of it, WH40K: Space Marine and DOW2 probably do it like that, with their dinky, MP-oriented DLCs. I never played multi on those, so I don't know. I tend to ignore such junk, for me, a proper DLC adds at least one actual, SP mission.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 09, 2014, 06:51:17 am
Silent threat vs cardinal spear!
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: BritishShivans on January 09, 2014, 07:02:56 am
????????????????

what is that even supposed to mean in relation to homeworld

did you mean to post in another thread or something
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: An4ximandros on January 09, 2014, 07:39:02 am
It is clearly related to Homeworld because Dek Plans to make a mod about that, obviously.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 09, 2014, 02:50:53 pm
Custom content production may stimulate 'interest in a game and provide longevity, (cardinal spear) but it may overshadow officially released in-house expansion sets (silent threat) and limit. their sales. Why pay for something if a superior free alternative exists.

Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: BritishShivans on January 09, 2014, 03:25:58 pm
Oh. Thank you for the explanation, Dekker. I see your point now.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 09, 2014, 03:52:58 pm
Don't remind me.  Relic is prevaricating really heavily on mod support for CoH 2 right now because they're terrified their DLC sales will tank once mods start getting released. :(
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 09, 2014, 04:53:31 pm
They have people to sell DLC to after what they released?
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Nakura on January 12, 2014, 09:37:48 am
My wallet is ready to get raped. My Steam library has been missing Homeworld for far too long.
Title: Re: Gearbox Announces Homeworld, Homeworld 2 HD Remakes
Post by: Ace on January 15, 2014, 07:50:25 pm
Custom content production may stimulate 'interest in a game and provide longevity, (cardinal spear) but it may overshadow officially released in-house expansion sets (silent threat) and limit. their sales. Why pay for something if a superior free alternative exists.

That's I think is the first time I've been accused of overshadowing anything :p