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Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Inferno => Topic started by: CT27 on September 10, 2013, 04:30:43 am

Title: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: CT27 on September 10, 2013, 04:30:43 am
Why exactly did the EA begin the war with the GTVA (it's been years since I played the original Inferno, but IIRC as soon as the Sol Gate was finish the EA stormed through and begun to attack the GTVA)?  Does anyone have any thoughts on that?
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Jellyfish on September 10, 2013, 08:28:37 am
Perhaps they say the GTVA as a threat.
Imagine yourself as the EA: extremely paranoid, extremely militaristic, fresh off a brutal civil war that took decades and billions of lives. You finally achieve some sort of stability, and now these newcomers arrive? You fight.

Also, the GTVA did manage to send an expeditionary fleet, but the EA destroyed them, then started their attack.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Deepstar on September 10, 2013, 12:48:00 pm
Maybe the Expedition force was with Vasudan ships? I think the Vasudans are still the enemy...

I think the EA and NTF share some similiraties in it. "Vasudans weaken the Terran race" or something like that.

Or the expedition fleet was "too" powerful and consists of warships that can maybe a threat. I think a nearly unarmed ship like a Science cruiser were a better choice. But i think the GTVA provoke an attack with their numerous presence near earth. If the new jump node was still near earth like in the ending cutscene... think about it. How would you react if an unknown fleet of battle ships show up right in front of your homeplanet?
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Rampage on September 10, 2013, 03:44:41 pm
We plan to explore the reason behind the EA's aggressiveness towards the GTVA.

R
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Luis Dias on September 11, 2013, 05:02:40 am
because gamefun.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 11, 2013, 05:59:27 am
Because zodsmustdie.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: CT27 on September 16, 2013, 09:30:35 pm
I will admit maybe the GTVA shouldn't have sent in heavy warships to be a 'first contact' with the EA, but once the EA saw they were Terran ships shouldn't they have at least asked "What's going on?" rather than make war with the GTVA the first choice?
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: yuezhi on September 16, 2013, 09:57:09 pm
because headz.

About the actual issue this does remind me of the mongols.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: CT27 on September 16, 2013, 10:14:19 pm
"because headz"?

What is that supposed to mean and what does it have to do with the topic?
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: yuezhi on September 16, 2013, 10:31:01 pm
Its a brainwashing propaganda short dating back to the great war, revealed only to a few select Terran pilots.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 17, 2013, 04:44:28 am
"because headz"?

What is that supposed to mean and what does it have to do with the topic?
"headz" was the name of an outtake Silent Threat short video showing a Vasudan stocking Terran heads in his fridge.

In this context, this is just used as a shortcut to designate an anti-Vasudan motivation for the EA.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Jellyfish on September 17, 2013, 11:57:02 am
It's not just an anti-Vasudan motivation, it's an anti-everything that's not EA motivation. In a system so ravaged by civil war, it's the only thing that worked for them.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: CT27 on September 17, 2013, 11:51:03 pm
What would the EA have done with the Vasudan pilots who got trapped in Sol with the rest of the strike force that attacked the Lucifer?
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: mr.WHO on September 18, 2013, 11:34:58 am
I will admit maybe the GTVA shouldn't have sent in heavy warships to be a 'first contact' with the EA, but once the EA saw they were Terran ships shouldn't they have at least asked "What's going on?" rather than make war with the GTVA the first choice?

Yeah, like this ended well for UEF in Blue Planet:
- GTVA ships jump into Sol
- UEF: Hi guys what's up?
- <lazooorrsss>


EA actualy did a very smart by "shoot first, ask questions when you have at least 3-4 system buffer zone between GTVA and Sol".
EA is actually UEF with balls, HUGE BALLS and lazors and railguns and dozens of destroyers and 20 km large super Juggernaut.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Luis Dias on September 18, 2013, 11:44:10 am
None of which are remotely inspired by "reality" IMHO. BP is justified by its futuristic usage of ultra-complex forecasting of politics and "psychohistorical" projections they had which all indicated disaster would be in their way if they didn't strike first (thus basically saying to the viewer "Yeah we know this preemptive strike is absolutely inhuman and stupid, but TRUST US we know better"), but INFERNO never really justifies it rather than just being badass and cruel at it. It's campy and simple. I like it.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 18, 2013, 12:24:13 pm
They're pissed somebody opened the door that was keeping the Shivans out.

(I've always wanted to see an interpretation of Earth as the paranoid guy with a gun in both hands, staring into the dark, convinced the rest of the universe is gone.)
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: mr.WHO on September 18, 2013, 12:26:15 pm
Note that Alpha Centauri is just 4 ly from Sol, so I think that both sides tried some sub light communication with each other. GTVA constitution grants all power in human space to GTVA, while from EA point of view GTA should be under their control. I don't think that both sides would not appreciate it. It's like USA constitution would grand US power over Great Britain while GB still tread USA as it's province.


IMO EA would know at least about NTF uprising and might see GTVA as incompetent and weak, so in their view they actually might doing this to sake of human kind, not because they like war. (if it's accurate in both old and new Inferno Vasudans tried to stay away from conflict and EA tried not to provoke Zods).

Additionally Earth/Sol saw civil war after node collapse and it was core colonies (so they supose to be most loyal) who opened fire first. No suprise that they see rest of GTA outside of Sol as very big thread to their existence and GTVA constitution doesn't help it.

IMO EA is UEF from BP with Tevs mentality from from BP2 and very big sticks to use that mentality :)


There is one problem - EA must be aware of 80 Shivan Juggernauts so it's still stupid to wage war with GTVA, but maybe they are confident that Icanus + regular fleet would be enough to deal with them (again stugid assumption as Collossu was so epic cluste**** that it made through 4 LY distance for sure).
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Dragon on September 18, 2013, 12:50:12 pm
Don't forget, if you put the Icanus against a Sathanas, it'd wipe the floor with it without much effort. Considering the power seen in Inferno, anti-juggernaut torpedoes and such, and 80-Sathanas fleet suddenly looks much less threatening.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Droid803 on September 18, 2013, 01:08:10 pm
Of course, the Shivans always get bigger.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Woomeister on September 18, 2013, 01:12:05 pm
There is one problem - EA must be aware of 80 Shivan Juggernauts so it's still stupid to wage war with GTVA, but maybe they are confident that Icanus + regular fleet would be enough to deal with them (again stugid assumption as Collossu was so epic cluste**** that it made through 4 LY distance for sure).
The plan was more to not deal with the Shivans if possible, but it depended on what the Shivans were capable at throwing at the EA.
Spoiler:
Let's just say Earth has something else other than the Icanus that can hold those Sathanas back a bit, and is also a problem for the GTVA assault

Don't forget, if you put the Icanus against a Sathanas, it'd wipe the floor with it without much effort. Considering the power seen in Inferno, anti-juggernaut torpedoes and such, and 80-Sathanas fleet suddenly looks much less threatening.
Well the Nemesis can take a Sathanas on its own as long as its not directly in front of it.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Dragon on September 18, 2013, 02:03:35 pm
Well the Nemesis can take a Sathanas on its own as long as its not directly in front of it.
So can the Hippocrates. :) Really, Sathanas is rather poor as a warship. It's only strength lies in it's ability to shock-jump enemies, anything not directly in front or directly behind it is relatively safe. At Sol, it'd have to approach a chokepoint that Sol Gate is, which would open it to attack from the sides. A couple of Lindos destroyers could probably keep up with them if they approached Sol gate like they arrived from the 3rd Knossos portal. Sol Gate, having only one arrival vector, would make a neat ambush point.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Jellyfish on September 18, 2013, 05:57:49 pm
(if it's accurate in both old and new Inferno Vasudans tried to stay away from conflict and EA tried not to provoke Zods)
In R1, Zods stayed away from the conflict because, if I recall, the Terran side of the GTVA asked them to. It was a Terran matter, after all.
They only started getting actively involved in the GTVA/EA war after the Diablo appeared, and (correctly) interpreted that there would be more Shivans behind it, and that any Terran ship shooting at another Terran ship would be better used if it was shooting at a Shivan ship.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: BritishShivans on September 18, 2013, 07:54:44 pm
Well the Nemesis can take a Sathanas on its own as long as its not directly in front of it.
So can the Hippocrates. :) Really, Sathanas is rather poor as a warship. It's only strength lies in it's ability to shock-jump enemies, anything not directly in front or directly behind it is relatively safe. At Sol, it'd have to approach a chokepoint that Sol Gate is, which would open it to attack from the sides. A couple of Lindos destroyers could probably keep up with them if they approached Sol gate like they arrived from the 3rd Knossos portal. Sol Gate, having only one arrival vector, would make a neat ambush point.

The only reason the Sathanas is poor as a warship is because it has noticeable side armaments whatsoever.

On other subjects, I rather like how the EA's motivations can be interpreted. I've always imagined from the transmissions the GTVA would've sent after Capella, Earth would be viewing the GTVA as either too unstable to defend the Human and Vasudan species effectively, and would view their capability in this capacity as suspect. Not just due to Shivans, but because of the NTF Rebellion and ****.

It gives them something better than "lol we're evil", and adds a story element that can be built upon. Rather than just "hey hey we're going back to earth, man!"
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Mongoose on September 18, 2013, 08:53:41 pm
Not to nitpick, but if stuff was getting sent back and forth from Alpha Centauri, it'd presumably be going AT the speed of light, not below it somehow. :p
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: Jellyfish on September 18, 2013, 09:04:42 pm
It gives them something better than "lol we're evil", and adds a story element that can be built upon. Rather than just "hey hey we're going back to earth, man!"
I never got a "lol we're evil" vibe from the EA.
I did get a "the universe is cold and hostile, but we are more and if we aren't we'll die" vibe from them. Two very different things.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: CT27 on September 18, 2013, 09:35:34 pm
I will admit maybe the GTVA shouldn't have sent in heavy warships to be a 'first contact' with the EA, but once the EA saw they were Terran ships shouldn't they have at least asked "What's going on?" rather than make war with the GTVA the first choice?

Yeah, like this ended well for UEF in Blue Planet:
- GTVA ships jump into Sol
- UEF: Hi guys what's up?
- <lazooorrsss>


EA actualy did a very smart by "shoot first, ask questions when you have at least 3-4 system buffer zone between GTVA and Sol".
EA is actually UEF with balls, HUGE BALLS and lazors and railguns and dozens of destroyers and 20 km large super Juggernaut.


To be fair, that wasn't the GTVA's intentions in Inferno, at least as far as we know.  They were worried Shivans were in Sol so they sent in warships, at least that's how I understood it.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: BritishShivans on September 19, 2013, 01:43:39 am
Not to nitpick, but if stuff was getting sent back and forth from Alpha Centauri, it'd presumably be going AT the speed of light, not below it somehow. :p

Oops. :P Thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: CT27 on September 26, 2013, 06:07:12 pm
We plan to explore the reason behind the EA's aggressiveness towards the GTVA.

R

Thank you.  I would like to know a little more about the EA's motives and goals.

For instance, is its goal to completely take over the GTVA or just get a couple systems as a buffer?
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: CT27 on October 03, 2013, 12:58:19 am
When the GTVA first sent ships back into Sol, might it have helped things if it sent in surviving FS1 era ships so that the ships wouldn't be unrecognizable by the EA?
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: NeonShivan on October 03, 2013, 05:51:13 am
When the GTVA first sent ships back into Sol, might it have helped things if it sent in surviving FS1 era ships so that the ships wouldn't be unrecognizable by the EA?

At the same time it wouldn't be economical as by the point the Sol Gate would re-open, Fs1 era ships would be a thing of the past. Retired, sent to the junk yard. All those nice little terms we have come to know and love. They GTVA don't even know if there is a provisional government even established in Sol, or anything for that matter. For all we know, there could of been anarchy in the Sol System that needs to be eliminated. However, should the GTVA have known the EA was around, maybe it would of been wise to send in a Fenris or something to ease tension, but it may not have worked.
Title: Re: Rationale of the Earth Alliance
Post by: CT27 on October 08, 2013, 02:22:19 pm
Was it ever said how the EA treated the Vasudan pilots/personnel who were trapped in Sol?