Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: The Dagger on October 19, 2013, 09:14:12 am

Title: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: The Dagger on October 19, 2013, 09:14:12 am
Release post:
Download from Mediafire  (http://www.mediafire.com/?m6w2h52yseu80by)
Corrected SerapisGlass-trans-shine:
 Download from Mediafire  (http://www.mediafire.com/?k1gkwjf11bb73ig)

(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Serapis/screen0196_zps71de80ca.png)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original post:

Those who hang on IRC must have seen it already, but for those who don't, I'm working on the Serapis.

(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Serapis/Serapis-pub_zps84f7b08e.png) (http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Serapis/Serapis-pub_zps84f7b08e.png)

So, what do you think?
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Col.Hornet on October 19, 2013, 09:53:49 am
Me gusta :)
Just like your previous models
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Rodo on October 19, 2013, 09:57:55 am
Awesome engine detailing.
I hope that doesn't spin, cause if it does I'll ruin my pants everytime I see it.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Kobrar44 on October 19, 2013, 10:00:04 am
It looks as if it was.. badass!  :lol:
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Luis Dias on October 19, 2013, 12:29:45 pm
this game is getting more and more beautiful! Great modelling fu there, Dagger! :yes:
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: fightermedic on October 19, 2013, 01:49:18 pm
power level: infinite
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: headdie on October 19, 2013, 03:00:01 pm
Nice one dagger, looking forward to seeing this one develop
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Mongoose on October 19, 2013, 03:26:24 pm
Those engine details are sexy as hell.  I always thought the original design looked pretty stupid with the squished-in cockpit area, but this flows way better already.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Kolgena on October 19, 2013, 10:37:55 pm
Those engine details are gorgeous.

Have you considered adding more detail to the bottom of the medial triplets of "wing guns"? The retail textures suggest some sort of exposed greebling that could be played with to look more interesting than the smooth plates and clean holes you have now.

Another nitpick/point to consider is that the leading edges of the wings could be more streamlined in both profile and their cross-section. While the retail serapis has no polies in it whatsoever, the shape of the front of the wings does give a lighter feel. Right now they look a tiny bit too clumsy on the WIPrather than sharp/sleek.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on October 20, 2013, 01:04:17 am
Holy ship; that is a sexy beast.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: The Dagger on October 20, 2013, 03:56:54 am
I'm glad you liked it guys!  :)

Have you considered adding more detail to the bottom of the medial triplets of "wing guns"? The retail textures suggest some sort of exposed greebling that could be played with to look more interesting than the smooth plates and clean holes you have now.

I did try at first to put something there and the problem is that it breaks the flow. It looks odd to me, that's why I extended the plate section up to the front.

Another nitpick/point to consider is that the leading edges of the wings could be more streamlined in both profile and their cross-section. While the retail serapis has no polies in it whatsoever, the shape of the front of the wings does give a lighter feel. Right now they look a tiny bit too clumsy on the WIPrather than sharp/sleek.

I will see about this, cause the leading edge is indeed sharper in the original.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Luis Dias on October 20, 2013, 03:44:53 pm
"liked" is an understatement. When I turn on the poly to see the vertices I am mesmerized how every single vertice seems to be placed in the most efficient place ever to create the overall shape. Really impressed with it!
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: The Dagger on October 20, 2013, 04:27:29 pm
Well, I have to place my points wisely because those turbines have 2500 tris each (well... now they do, they had more than 8k tris at first). The model will sit around 20k tris, which is on the top of my budget.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Kobrar44 on October 20, 2013, 07:38:43 pm
"liked" is an understatement. When I turn on the poly to see the vertices I am mesmerized how every single vertice seems to be placed in the most efficient place ever to create the overall shape. Really impressed with it!

TBH, the little tubes need to be nothing else than 6-sided simple tubes[5 would honestly do too]. In current shape they are quite an overkill, and the polycount is still not triangulated. I don't think you can even zoom enough in freespace to appreciate them. And, IMHO, they actually don't fit there and could be removed.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: SypheDMar on October 20, 2013, 09:56:14 pm
If it is within the threshold of a fighter in the current year, I don't care how many polygons it has so long as it looks good and is optimized reasonably well. Since I'm no modeler nor an expert on polycount limits, I trust FSU to decide on that. Right now the Serapis looks amazing.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: mjn.mixael on October 20, 2013, 10:15:11 pm
"liked" is an understatement. When I turn on the poly to see the vertices I am mesmerized how every single vertice seems to be placed in the most efficient place ever to create the overall shape. Really impressed with it!

TBH, the little tubes need to be nothing else than 6-sided simple tubes[5 would honestly do too]. In current shape they are quite an overkill, and the polycount is still not triangulated. I don't think you can even zoom enough in freespace to appreciate them. And, IMHO, they actually don't fit there and could be removed.

Buzzkill... 6 sided tubes is overkill in the other direction. 5 is even worse. This is not The Daggar's first rodeo at making workable fighter models, so let's leave the modelling technique advice to the modelling people. As for whether or not they fit there.. well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Additionally, I will add that extra detail that fits the poly budget is definitely welcomed by me for several reasons. Future proofing for one. Potential use in rendered cutscenes, anims or mainhalls is another.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Luis Dias on October 21, 2013, 03:57:11 am
Future proofing for one. Potential use in rendered cutscenes, anims or mainhalls is another.

Exactly. Do recall that Star Citizen ships allegedly run on over 300k polys.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 21, 2013, 05:45:35 am
As someone who has looked at the actualy meshes, you can ditch the "allegedly" part :p
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Luis Dias on October 21, 2013, 09:07:32 am
Ok, I was just trying to be precise in my testimony :)
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: The Dagger on October 24, 2013, 12:45:07 pm
I've updated the model with a cockpit, reduced the polycount and I'm UVmapping it... Should be ready for texturing next week or so.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: fightermedic on October 24, 2013, 01:08:27 pm
i've always liked the serpis a lot, not it's just irresistible
the cockpits fits superb the way you have done it
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Kolgena on October 24, 2013, 01:16:32 pm
Looks pretty good. I like how you've changed the cross-section of the wing to be sharper.

For some reason, the fighter still feels a bit chubby, like it's a porpoise instead of a shark. I think it might be that the bottom/engine part of fighter is currently too thick (the thickest part of the bottom is the same as the thickest part of the top), although I realize that's basically something that can't be changed right now. It might also be that the front and the top is blunter and less air-foil shaped than the retail model. Anyways, it's not a big deal, since your version still looks miles better than our current offerings. I'd be happy with what you have as-is.

I've attached an isometric screenshot of the serapis to give you an idea of what I mean.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Col.Hornet on October 24, 2013, 02:58:29 pm
Oh, I see that you added a pilot here. But I really don't get the idea of putting a pilot in such strange position. As I know, it is better to keep body in almost lying position(look at the seats in modern jets), when you are exposed to the effects of high G
(of course if we take that Vasudan body has similar G- tolerance and the fighter hasn't it's own gravity drive).
I know that Serapis is very small unit and there's no room to swing a cat inside the cockpit, but this poor Vasudan hugging all the devices looks funny xD
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: The Dagger on October 24, 2013, 07:50:40 pm
@Kolgena: When in doubt, I go back to retail... so here (http://p3d.in/kiFtb)'s a new update.

@Col. Hornet: Proned pilots resist better to G-forces caused by turning. (http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/n_o_d/weird_07.htm)
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 24, 2013, 08:08:45 pm
best model for worst fighter
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on October 24, 2013, 08:40:44 pm
Amazing... you made it look even better! Can't wait to see this textured. :yes:
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Kolgena on October 24, 2013, 08:43:33 pm
I quite like the motorcycle cockpit for this fighter. Seems like it could be a design trend for vasudan fighters (ulysses has it as well)

@Kolgena: When in doubt, I go back to retail... so here (http://p3d.in/kiFtb)'s a new update.

Nice.

The immediately obvious change is that there are now pipes/toes on the bottom of the fighter as the retail textures suggest. I'm not sure if I've noticed any changes to the fighter's overall shape to make it any sleeker, but I'm not sure if it's something you're not going to pursue, or just haven't gotten to it yet.

I am starting to see where you came from when you said the plates looked better than the "toes", but if you look at the retail textures, the black bits in the middle where you've (brilliantly) reimagined as turbines have the same glossy black plate pattern. I think this could be a cue for you to play around with whatever exposed machinery makes the most sense at the front if you also agree that "toes" look a bit weird. Maybe something that makes sense as sensors and/or components of the secondary firepoints directly above?

In terms of further streamlining the model, have you considered removing the lip underneath the lateral primary fire points, or moving it to where the line between brown and tan is between the secondary fire points? Also, as it is now, the most lateral 3 of the secondary firepoints have empty space right behind them, which is frankly odd (even given FS2 hammerspace physics). Anyhow, the model is coming along very nicely, and I'm just throwing random details I noticed at you to see if any of it might be helpful for you to consider.



[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Black Wolf on October 24, 2013, 09:03:28 pm
When in doubt, I go back to retail...

 :yes:

I'm really liking this model - TBH, the serapis was always kind of a dull fighter, visually. Spicing it up with the high poly doodads in the engines is not really an issue (particularly not with the decreased count on this new version).

Can;t wait to see the finished, textured product! :D
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: The Dagger on October 25, 2013, 02:03:39 am
The profile is a bit sleeker:
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Serapis/profile_zps8d0ccfa3.png)

And the tubes do remind me of Oddgrim's Osiris engine subsystem, so I'll leave it that way... Modeling has to stop at some point.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: The Dagger on October 30, 2013, 05:53:22 pm
BUMP for update: LODs and debris done, texturing in progress. Thanks to Dekker's post on the modding boards I've discovered Krita and I'm enjoying texturing a lot.  :nod:

Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on October 31, 2013, 12:29:05 am
*Drool*
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: niffiwan on October 31, 2013, 01:00:08 am
yeah, that's seriously awesome looking  :yes:
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Aesaar on November 01, 2013, 12:33:50 pm
The speed at which you manage to crank out high quality models amazes me.
Title: Re: Serapis [WIP]
Post by: Kolgena on November 01, 2013, 12:58:12 pm
The serapis is made of wet cardboard. That is an extremely cheap, easy to procure, and readily manipulated construction material. Of course progress should be as fast as it has been.

Jokes aside, it looks great.
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: The Dagger on November 03, 2013, 06:34:18 am
The speed at which you manage to crank out high quality models amazes me.
Thanks Aesaar, although I am generally slow, I do have intense moments.

And now the Serapis is finished and released, get it from Mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/?k1gkwjf11bb73ig)
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: Cobra on November 03, 2013, 01:11:45 pm
Holy shiiiiiiiiiiiit
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: Kolgena on November 03, 2013, 01:31:15 pm
aw yiss
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: Kon on November 03, 2013, 03:05:53 pm
Wow, I gotta say that I'm surprised you could crank out such a great model so quickly. I never liked the zod paper ship, but this model is a great update. Thanks!
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: mjn.mixael on November 03, 2013, 03:36:29 pm
It's been added to the FSU internal testing folder.
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: Skarab on November 03, 2013, 07:26:53 pm
Is it just me or is this missing the glass texture over the cockpit?  Or is it a special vasudan flight suit negating the need for glass on the ship?  Edit: Another question I have regards what looks like it would be another window on the back side of the cockpit area... it's solid in the model and I'm reasonably sure it's intended that way, but what of the idea of turning that into glass as well?  That way you can see Vasudan butt when you maneuver behind it for the kill.
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: headdie on November 03, 2013, 07:42:50 pm
Is it just me or is this missing the glass texture over the cockpit?  Or is it a special vasudan flight suit negating the need for glass on the ship?  Edit: Another question I have regards what looks like it would be another window on the back side of the cockpit area... it's solid in the model and I'm reasonably sure it's intended that way, but what of the idea of turning that into glass as well?  That way you can see Vasudan butt when you maneuver behind it for the kill.

in theory we already have the tech now so that glass is marginalized as a material replaced by cameras and a viual overlay system, i think BAE has the most publicly known system under development, so no glass would not be terminal.

as for the back it looks to me more like an access hatch so you can climb in and out of the thing
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: Rodo on November 03, 2013, 09:14:00 pm
That way you can see Vasudan butt when you maneuver behind it for the kill.
:lol:

On other note, maybe it's just me but... the base texture feels just a tad little incomplete without some lines or maybe other features aside from dust and dirt marks.
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: Kolgena on November 03, 2013, 10:47:43 pm
There's definitely glass there. It's just the spec and env map on it are so weak (and the angle of the damn window is so awkward) that it's very hard to see it. Easiest way to make sure is to go into ship lab and turn off diffuse map.

I'm loving the placebo effect of the new fighter. The sexiness of my ride directly correlates to how well I fly. I just went through all the fs2 vasudan campaign missions on insane in a serapis without dying.
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: The Dagger on November 05, 2013, 03:05:24 pm
Sorry for the late answer, but I was on a business trip with no access to internet.
Regarding the glass, I had a fully black shine map for the glass when it should be fully white (dunno why I did that) and that was the responsable of the glass not showing correctly. I have reuploaded the model with the proper map now, and I've updated the download links. Sorry...  ;)
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: MitoPL on November 06, 2013, 09:55:00 am
 Hello,
This ship looks very nice, and there is nothing to add in this sentence, but...
Have you ever thought about making these engine turbines (whatever) rotate? I think it would be the "cherry on a cake" thing :)
Title: Re: Serapis [RELEASED]
Post by: The Dagger on November 06, 2013, 01:05:07 pm
Honestly, I don't think it would make sense or be noticeable in-game. If someone else wants to do it, please go ahead but beware that the turbines are not fully modelled (as in, it's not complete because I deleted the parts that are not visible to reduce the polycount) so it's more than just a conversion or table fix.