There's no grand conspiracy between Bosch and the GTVA. Command just knows that whatever Bosch is up to is probably extremely valuable and bides its time until the project is complete so it can be captured. The rank-and-file pilots and crews who are tasked with fighting the real military threat (the NTF fleet) simply aren't privy to the plan.
As for your second question, how do you know there were NTF saboteurs on the Colossus?Spoiler:How do you know Command didn't just want the Iceni to make it to the nebula so they could what happened with the ETAK project, and just pretended that the Colossus was the victim of NTF sabotage?
You realise your idea is compatible with a conspiracy, right? Bosch has an "understanding" with the GTVA. It's a very limited one, but it clearly exists. That never meant that they were now best friends forever.
Well, it was in direct response to this question:As for your second question, how do you know there were NTF saboteurs on the Colossus?Spoiler:How do you know Command didn't just want the Iceni to make it to the nebula so they could what happened with the ETAK project, and just pretended that the Colossus was the victim of NTF sabotage?
Who said it had to be NTF sabotage? It could have been GTVA/SOC people that they just swept under the rug (or let hang out to dry).
So instead of going through the bother of sabotaging the Colossus, why couldn't the Iceni have jumped out behind the Knossos, where the Colossus couldn't get into range with its main guns? How did they even get saboteurs aboard the Colossus?So... that's who said it was NTF sabotage. :P
How do you know Bosch hates the GTVA?You realise your idea is compatible with a conspiracy, right? Bosch has an "understanding" with the GTVA. It's a very limited one, but it clearly exists. That never meant that they were now best friends forever.
If you mean that he understood what command was doing, yeah I'd agree to that. If what you mean is he called them up and said "Let's make a deal", then no. Command was smart enough to understand what he was doing without Bosch's input. Even though he wasn't as fanatical as his followers, he still hated the GTVA. He wouldn't negotiate unless he was flustered and not in (relative) control. We see that in the second mission and no where else.
If you mean that he understood what command was doing, yeah I'd agree to that. If what you mean is he called them up and said "Let's make a deal", then no. Command was smart enough to understand what he was doing without Bosch's input. Even though he wasn't as fanatical as his followers, he still hated the GTVA. He wouldn't negotiate unless he was flustered and not in (relative) control. We see that in the second mission and no where else.
Well, it was in direct response to this question:As for your second question, how do you know there were NTF saboteurs on the Colossus?Spoiler:How do you know Command didn't just want the Iceni to make it to the nebula so they could what happened with the ETAK project, and just pretended that the Colossus was the victim of NTF sabotage?
Who said it had to be NTF sabotage? It could have been GTVA/SOC people that they just swept under the rug (or let hang out to dry).So instead of going through the bother of sabotaging the Colossus, why couldn't the Iceni have jumped out behind the Knossos, where the Colossus couldn't get into range with its main guns?So... you said it was NTF sabotage. :P
How do you know Bosch hates the GTVA?
What my enemies will never understand is that my rebellion is about my love for humanity and not my hatred of Vasudans.
Freespace 2 is incredibly minimalistic in its writing, meaning that a few words here and there will describe whole events, instead of dragging lore writing on and on and on like other games do. The simple fact that right in the second mission we see Bosch attempting to negotiate with Command a safe passage, and that in the third mission we are both shown GTVA's "incompetency" at capturing Bosch, and told by one strident wingmate how this is obvious Command's decision, it becomes obvious that not only these people are able to negotiate things, they clearly did so right at the start.
You say "well that's just because he was flustered", but it's also obvious he was getting in a harsher situation by the end of his campaign.
I agree that FS2 has less lore than, say, Mass Effect. However, to stretch what lore we do have over the gaps is unwise in my opinion. Yes, Bosch tried to negotiate in mission 2. Does that mean that he negotiated before? Not necessarily. If he did negotiate before mission 2, why would he negotiate again? It's clear that the fighters/bombers that attacked him posed no problem. He was concerned about the warships that were in the blockade and elsewhere in Deneb. If he and the GTVA had an agreement, he shouldn't be worried. His safety would be ensured if he had a prior agreement. Besides, why would he say "I would question the wisdom of your leaders" if the leaders helped him out?
To his rebellion, yes, but not his ultimate goal. By the end of the rebellion, the ETAK device was (almost?) complete, so all he had to do was get to the nebula. It's probable that the Iceni had a better than average engine & subspace drive, so it could out run/jump most ships. The saboteurs on the Colossus were an ace in the hole if he needed it. So even though reaching the nebula was risky, he had it relatively under control.
Whoops, not sure how that quote screwed up like that. Still, the point is that in context, NTF sabotage was being discussed.Well, it was in direct response to this question:As for your second question, how do you know there were NTF saboteurs on the Colossus?Spoiler:How do you know Command didn't just want the Iceni to make it to the nebula so they could what happened with the ETAK project, and just pretended that the Colossus was the victim of NTF sabotage?
Who said it had to be NTF sabotage? It could have been GTVA/SOC people that they just swept under the rug (or let hang out to dry).So instead of going through the bother of sabotaging the Colossus, why couldn't the Iceni have jumped out behind the Knossos, where the Colossus couldn't get into range with its main guns?So... you said it was NTF sabotage. :P
Uh, that wasn't me that said that. That was the original poster, "Thisisaverylongusername".How do you know Bosch hates the GTVA?
He says this in one of his monologues:QuoteWhat my enemies will never understand is that my rebellion is about my love for humanity and not my hatred of Vasudans.
So even though the rebellion was a smoke screen, he did believe in its core ideals. He hated the GTVA, even if it was only because of the V part.
He says this in one of his monologues:QuoteWhat my enemies will never understand is that my rebellion is about my love for humanity and not my hatred of Vasudans.
So even though the rebellion was a smoke screen, he did believe in its core ideals. He hated the GTVA, even if it was only because of the V part.
He mentions in the same monologue that he has created in the NTF a monster that he is powerless to stop. Bosch hates Vasudans and believes humanity's salvation lies apart from them, but that doesn't mean he condones his smokescreen taking on a life of its own as a campaign of genocide. Bosch allows his militant followers to be crushed once they've served their purpose, preventing further bloodshed.
Right, I understand your point, especially if you consider The_E's version of "GTVA", by which I mean Blue Planet's, wherein they have all these supercomputers making huge calculations about these kinds of movements and so on.I think you're confused; the UEF is known to have supercomputers analyzing, for example, economic patterns, but I can't recall any mention of the GTVA doing the same.
I'm not confused, the whole reason for the Sol incursion is given by the plot that directly tells us that the GTVA command ran lots of scenarios for what would happen when the gate opened, and because all the results pointed to a massive ideological and demographical problem that wouldn't be contained by Command, they chose war. This is basic BP canon, look it up.Perhaps you should take your own advice; there is no reference to supercomputers running projections. There may have been, but for all we know, it could be a network of Nagari operatives or something completely different. There's simply no canon reference to what you describe that I can find.
I also didn't say he was bringing BP up. *I* brought it up. And I didn't understand your last sentence.Did... did you forget the wording you just used and I just quoted?
especially if you consider The_E's version of "GTVA", by which I mean Blue Planet'sThat sure sounds like you're saying the version of the GTVA he just described is Blue Planet's version of the GTVA. If that's not what you were saying, then... what were you saying?
Admiral, you're confused....In your opinion.
Let's get things straight here.1. Nothing about The E's hypothetical requires anything even remotely resembling "prescience".
1. I don't think Freespace's GTVA is portrayed with the kind of "prescience" technology that would enable the kind of decision by command to give Bosch such a role as described above in FS2.
2. The closest of such ability was portrayed in Blue Planet as I described above, regardless of your inability to find any reference to super computers. Such scenarios were modeled and thoroughly ran to see any other way outs. There was none other than war. This was widely discussed in other threads so your denial here is baffling.
3. I made the connection between 1 and 2 in jest, not to be taken so seriously.
4. Despite 3, Blue Planet does not have a monopoly on the idea.
The Plan
... This is Command we're talking about here. :rolleyes:
Furthermore, the appeal of the Ubuntu ideology was so great that GTVA sociopsychologists predicted massive conversion amongst a populace already yearning to abandon failed colony worlds and emigrate to Earth. The military might of the GTVA would be brought down by ideology once more.
Under the guidance of President Toqueville, as advised by a panel of psychohistorians and sociopsychologists, the Security Council elected to enact its most severe contingency: the invasion of Sol. This contingency was hotly debated but ultimately selected for several reasons...
regarding my alleged lying:rolleyes: Please point me to any instance of me accusing you of lying or "making up" supercomputers.
... This is Command we're talking about here. :rolleyes:I have spent enough time on this subject, debunking this line of thought, that I really begin to feel anyone who spouts it and has been here as long as you have is deserving only of a kick in the balls.
But that's both impractical and too vicious.