Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Jarsallen on July 14, 2016, 04:27:01 pm

Title: Star Citizen
Post by: Jarsallen on July 14, 2016, 04:27:01 pm
Hi everyone,

I'll admit it's been a long time since I've played Freespace (and really Freespace 2). It seems like it's been one in a long list of space flight sim games that started with Wing Commander on my 386 back in the day (with real VGA graphics!). From X-wing and Wing Commander to Freelancer and the X-series and Freespace, these games have always drawn me in.

I'm sure it's old news but I thought I would mention "Star Citizen", because it is beautiful and just getting started.  The game is still in Alpha, but it is very playable as an alpha (occasional clipping issues aside), and it's constantly updating.  This week they are doing a "play for free" thing which I thought I would advertise since... you know... free. But I've also included my discount code - if you like what you see and buy the game my code gives you a bit of starting cash as an extra bonus (and full disclosure it gets me some recruitment points which gives me pointless chotskies).

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/fly-now

If you decide you want to buy in (and get some of the early adopter benefits), if you use the referral code: STAR-KVZY-HZTQ you get a free $5.00 worth of in-game credit.

If you'd like to check out some of the art, gameplay, advertisements (or you are a fan of Top Gear), check out the links below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SpsjUHj_II
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: The E on July 14, 2016, 04:32:58 pm
We already have several threads dedicated to SC and its various antics; the most active one is here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=90080.0). Be warned though, there is currently a lot of skepticism surrounding the project around these parts.

(For example, saying that a project that started in 2012 "is just getting started" 2 years after its first projected release date is ... questionable, to say the least)
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 14, 2016, 05:45:18 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/VryfXBr.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/pq5QDK1.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/wB5du82.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/9mFwcNz.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/JimauQM.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/mFJ7989.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Iz8CeJM.gif)

(http://i.giphy.com/5q7LjD7YHRkg8.gif)
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 14, 2016, 05:45:38 pm
PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARP
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 14, 2016, 05:46:27 pm
I think you are a loving stupid shill if your first post on a forum contains a referral link and is basically just advertisment for your cult dream game.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 14, 2016, 05:47:24 pm
P.S.
Star citizen is a .jpeg buying scam
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 14, 2016, 06:36:25 pm
Quote
I'm sure it's old news but I thought I would mention "Star Citizen", because it is beautiful and just getting started.  The game is still in Alpha, but it is very playable as an alpha
117 million dollar
4 years in alpha
(http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/kingspoon/Party%20Parrots/sirocco_zpstsmaz0bz.gif~original)
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 14, 2016, 06:42:11 pm
Let me just watch the great man himself play the game and have him restore all of my faith in this wonderful product.

(http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/kingspoon/Junk/hehehehe7_zps0kmnbuzo.gif~original)
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 14, 2016, 06:44:24 pm
I like to think of this gif as the development of duke nukem forever
(http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/kingspoon/Junk/developmentofdukenukemforever_zpszkzny7f0.gif~original)
But it goes so wonderfully with the development of star citizen too.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Axem on July 14, 2016, 07:18:01 pm
You don't need to inflate your post count like CIG inflates its product. It sets a bad example for everyone.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 14, 2016, 07:21:05 pm
I know a good chant to make citizenshills run away: Derek Smart

(http://i.imgur.com/inmbYCn.png)
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: MikeRoz on July 14, 2016, 07:51:01 pm
I would be careful. Posts that aren't super-critical of Star Citizen can end up mocked, screenshotted, and posted to Something Awful. Given their rather liberal view on doxxing and online intimidation tactics, things could end badly for you.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Phantom Hoover on July 14, 2016, 08:22:38 pm
lol
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: FrikgFeek on July 14, 2016, 08:35:56 pm
same
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: OneOneThree on July 14, 2016, 09:15:45 pm
I made $300 buying and reselling .jpgs and that money provided me with plenty of enjoyment, which is more than I can say for any other game! So Star Citizen is the best in my book. Very engaging and realistic economy.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: 666maslo666 on July 15, 2016, 12:42:57 am
>One of the most complex games ever envisioned
>hurr durr why is it not complete and bug free after 3.5 years of development durrr

As I said before, end of 2017 is really the earliest you can truly judge the game. Compare with MA Andromeda which is in development since 2012 and release date is in 2017.

Anyway, next big patch is 2.7 which should come around the end of the year and have a procedural planet you can land on.

pls post this to SA forums to laugh at, too. It would be an honor to be so grossly displayed over there
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: karajorma on July 15, 2016, 03:02:53 am
And as we've pointed out multiple times, if it's going to take that long, and they knew it was going to take that long, why did they lie so many times about the release date?
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: The E on July 15, 2016, 03:13:46 am
And why does Chris Roberts think that it is good form to throw his developers under a bus in a public demo? Why is CIG always scrambling to adjust their Terms of Service in response to the goons when (according to CIG) everything is fine? Why does CIG spend time and money setting up sales for ships that do not have clearly defined gameplay roles? Why are they still accepting funding, when according to their own statements they have (proportionally) more money available than any other game on the planet?
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: -Joshua- on July 15, 2016, 03:47:13 am
And as we've pointed out multiple times, if it's going to take that long, and they knew it was going to take that long, why did they lie so many times about the release date?

This is a new one for me: I don't recall an actual Release Date(tm) for the whole full thing. I do recall release dates for smaller things, and those smaller things are released now.

I don't follow Star Citizen's development simply because the whole thing is just one big drama spin right now (see also, spoon's post in this thread), so please excuse my ignorance, but, well... Lying about release dates? You sure it's not just yet another glorious overestimation as these things always are?
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Luis Dias on July 15, 2016, 04:40:41 am
Nope, they lied. Everyone "lies" about release dates (i.e., they are always more optimistic than reality), but this is beyond that level by now. This was supposedly to be released by late 2014. Not "smaller things", but the game. The game. The game.

MA Andromeda never asked money 6 years in advance from fans.
MA Andromeda never promised a late 2014 release date.
MA Andromeda never did the ridiculous amount of marketing that SC did. Actually, they barely did any marketing at all (what, 3, 4 short youtube clips?).
MA Andromeda will likely actually be released by the promised date or, if not, 6 months later (like ME3).
MA Andromeda will likely be a good game.

Last, if not least, if you really want to play Star Citizen, I fully recommend playing this version of it:

Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: -Joshua- on July 15, 2016, 05:15:55 am
Nope, they lied. Everyone "lies" about release dates (i.e., they are always more optimistic than reality), but this is beyond that level by now. This was supposedly to be released by late 2014. Not "smaller things", but the game. The game. The game.

But where are people basing this off from? All I see on the original Kickstarter is that apperently the backer rewards shipped have an "Estimated delivery" of Nov 2014, but that's not an official release date but rather the "Estimated delivery time for the backer rewards" which is ... weird (also because the way the whole crowdfunding went across multiple platforms.

If you're going to call it a lie I am really going to need something a little bit more concrete then that. I don't doubt that Star Citizen is prone to ridicilous feature creep (... fps module...), but please help me cut trough the hysterical bull**** here.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Luis Dias on July 15, 2016, 05:28:01 am
It's not hysterical. They promised a late 2014 release and for all I've seen they won't be releasing by 2016, and probably 2017. That is a lie. Call it "hysterical" all you want, call for "more evidence" all you want, all I see here is your usual state of denial that is so part of your charm.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: MikeRoz on July 15, 2016, 05:40:58 am
Nope, they lied. Everyone "lies" about release dates (i.e., they are always more optimistic than reality), but this is beyond that level by now. This was supposedly to be released by late 2014. Not "smaller things", but the game. The game. The game.

But where are people basing this off from? All I see on the original Kickstarter is that apperently the backer rewards shipped have an "Estimated delivery" of Nov 2014, but that's not an official release date but rather the "Estimated delivery time for the backer rewards" which is ... weird (also because the way the whole crowdfunding went across multiple platforms.

If you're going to call it a lie I am really going to need something a little bit more concrete then that. I don't doubt that Star Citizen is prone to ridicilous feature creep (... fps module...), but please help me cut trough the hysterical bull**** here.
The story is that the unexpected success of the initial crowdfunding campaign led to both the abandonment of plans to court outside investors and the increase of scope to something more befitting the amount of money raised. Nevertheless, Chris Roberts was still giving end-2014 release dates in interviews as late as May 2013 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYFCfRK4e6Y&t=1187s) - though note by this point he was saying the release would be an alpha.

Right now, aside from upcoming alpha milestones, the most concrete full release date we've been given is "2016" for the first part of Squadron 42. Very few in the community actually expect that date to be met, but there is optimism that early 2017 is doable. I'm somewhat more skeptical. When PC Gamer did their cover story last year, they didn't have any in-engine gameplay to show. None. Just verbal concepts and things in the editor.

I am kind of curious, knowing what we know now, whether the dates would have been met if the initial crowdfunding had earned exactly the minimum to fund the project, and not hit or blown past any stretch goals.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: -Joshua- on July 15, 2016, 05:53:53 am
It's not hysterical. They promised a late 2014 release and for all I've seen they won't be releasing by 2016, and probably 2017. That is a lie. Call it "hysterical" all you want, call for "more evidence" all you want, all I see here is your usual state of denial that is so part of your charm.

The whole internet ****storm around Star Citizen is definitely hysterical. I mean, c'mon, do you read comment threads? Have you seen Spoon spamming in this very thread?
Also, you could just answer the question instead of finding excuses to be a dick again.

The story is that the unexpected success of the initial crowdfunding campaign led to both the abandonment of plans to court outside investors and the increase of scope to something more befitting the amount of money raised. Nevertheless, Chris Roberts was still giving end-2014 release dates in interviews as late as May 2013 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYFCfRK4e6Y&t=1187s) - though note by this point he was saying the release would be an alpha.

Right now, aside from upcoming alpha milestones, the most concrete full release date we've been given is "2016" for the first part of Squadron 42. Very few in the community actually expect that date to be met, but there is optimism that early 2017 is doable. I'm somewhat more skeptical. When PC Gamer did their cover story last year, they didn't have any in-engine gameplay to show. None. Just verbal concepts and things in the editor.

I am kind of curious, knowing what we know now, whether the dates would have been met if the initial crowdfunding had earned exactly the minimum to fund the project, and not hit or blown past any stretch goals.

Me too. Especially with stuff like this happening. (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/07/14/star-citizen-refund/)
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 06:47:46 am
The whole internet ****storm around Star Citizen is definitely hilarious.
FTFY

(http://media1.gameinformer.com/filestorage/CommunityServer.Components.SiteFiles/imagefeed/featured/cloudimperium/starcitizen/misc/slide1.21.jpg)
(http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/medium/2014/10/star_citizen_roadmap-pcgh.jpeg)
(http://www.pcgameshardware.de/screenshots/970x546/2015/03/Star_Citizen_Roadmap__1_-pcgh.jpg)
(http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/StarCitizen-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 06:49:44 am
You are not very smart if you think my just posting here is 'hysterical'.

Derek smart
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: FrikgFeek on July 15, 2016, 06:51:10 am
Have you seen Spoon spamming in this very thread?

Spoon's septupost of pure hate is some of the most accurate coverage ever done on SC.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 06:51:36 am
Anyone remember Star marine?
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Luis Dias on July 15, 2016, 06:54:14 am
Also, you could just answer the question instead of finding excuses to be a dick again.

Wanna ask if the Earth's round too and then complain people are being "dickish" to you?

I told you to go to Kickstarter. Was that "too hard" for you Joshua? "Oh stop making dick jokes, Luis". Nah. That was only the beggining.

You're asking about ma dick, well here's ma dick, Joshua. Yeah it's ****ing really really big. And VERTICAL too. That's how I roll:

(http://i.imgur.com/aywTFhp.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: The E on July 15, 2016, 07:03:29 am
<Moderator mode ="on">

Could every single one of you please calm the **** down?

However much scorn we think SC is worthy of, that does not extend to an open license to calling SC fans names here.
</Moderator>

Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 07:06:40 am
>One of the most complex games ever envisioned
>hurr durr why is it not complete and bug free after 3.5 years of development durrr

As I said before, end of 2017 is really the earliest you can truly judge the game. Compare with MA Andromeda which is in development since 2012 and release date is in 2017.
(https://i.imgur.com/Pw476PC.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: -Joshua- on July 15, 2016, 07:09:14 am
Also, you could just answer the question instead of finding excuses to be a dick again.

Wanna ask if the Earth's round too and then complain people are being "dickish" to you?

I told you to go to Kickstarter. Was that "too hard" for you Joshua? "Oh stop making dick jokes, Luis". Nah. That was only the beggining.

You're asking about ma dick, well here's ma dick, Joshua. Yeah it's ****ing really really big. And VERTICAL too. That's how I roll:

But where are people basing this off from? All I see on the original Kickstarter is that apperently the backer rewards shipped have an "Estimated delivery" of Nov 2014, but that's not an official release date but rather the "Estimated delivery time for the backer rewards" which is ... weird

Can you start reading my posts instead of looking at your dick? I mean, I don't know your dick, butt...

:P

Spoon's posts actually provided a lot more insight there.

---

As a more general note, none of this constitutes "Lying" about the release date. Lying is a case of you deliberately making a false statement. Never explain to malice that which you can explain by incompetence.

(I am totally not ruling out incompetence).
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 07:10:27 am
Unlike all the starcitizens, I guess I just don't understand gamedevelopment.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 07:13:14 am
(http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/kingspoon/Junk/****typop.001_zpsf4ycujfp.gif~original) Luis Dias, your dick is really long
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: The E on July 15, 2016, 07:20:43 am
Joshua, Star Citizen is, at best, an overpromising, incompetently led and shoddily developed game. At worst, it's an ongoing attempt to milk a couple whales in return for jpegs.

I have been defending CIG and SC for a long time on these forums. But then, with every. single. ****ing. release, they manage to erode what little is left of my confidence in them. Every single ****ing blog post, every single half-hour video they make where they say nothing, makes me want to trust these people less. Those allegations by Smart, or those bits of dirty laundry The Escapist dug up? They may not be true (DS in particular being rather guilty of overpromising in his campaign against CIG), but they have a ring of truthfulness to them.

Then there are the indisputable facts: CIG's management team, apart from the unholy triangle of Roberts, Gardiner and jesus-christ-WHY Lesnick, has undergone massive changes over the time this project has run. They're now at what, their third or fourth lead designer? Their community is unbelievably toxic, with Lesnick being an incompetent idiot who wouldn't know how to run a community if his life depended on it and SC supporters resembling nothing so much as an honest-to-god prosperity gospel cult who believe that they will be saved (=be playing SC), if only they continue to shower praise (=money) on the chosen prophet (=Christ Roberts).

And all while this is going on, we have an example of a game right in front of our eyes that does a LOT of what SC was promising to do (minus single-player cinematic campaign), developed for a fraction of the price, but released and turning a tidy profit for its developer, enough so that they regularly release big content updates that inch that game ever closer to what SC was promised to be initially. That game is Elite, of course, and it is what SC should be.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: -Joshua- on July 15, 2016, 07:26:17 am
<snip>

I'm not arguing against *any* of that.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Phantom Hoover on July 15, 2016, 07:44:52 am
http://justagamemode.com/
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Phantom Hoover on July 15, 2016, 07:46:38 am
Never explain to malice that which you can explain by incompetence.

(I am totally not ruling out incompetence).

there is a point beyond which incompetence becomes indistinguishable from malice, e.g. when you have been entrusted with $100 million to deliver a product
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Luis Dias on July 15, 2016, 08:47:56 am
Yeah well when you promise to deliver a game on an "estimated" timeframe that is so specific as NOVEMBER 2014, I tend to make the wild (I know, I know!) amazing deduction that they are actually speaking of a "delivery date".

Crazy, right? I mean, it's the land-of-the-insane kinda judgement, amirite?

(http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/kingspoon/Junk/****typop.001_zpsf4ycujfp.gif~original) Luis Dias, your dick is really long

Now we're talking.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 08:50:26 am
(http://i.imgur.com/clv7R0I.gif)
CoD killer FPS combat
What a beautiful game
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Luis Dias on July 15, 2016, 08:54:14 am
Soon(tm)

Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: -Joshua- on July 15, 2016, 09:03:47 am
Yeah well when you promise to deliver a game on an "estimated" timeframe that is so specific as NOVEMBER 2014, I tend to make the wild (I know, I know!) amazing deduction that they are actually speaking of a "delivery date".

Crazy, right? I mean, it's the land-of-the-insane kinda judgement, amirite?

An estimation is not a promise.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: The E on July 15, 2016, 09:16:29 am
Yes, it is. For kickstarter, your estimated delivery date should at least approach your actual delivery date. Overruns can happen, and are usually not a big deal, especially for runaway successes like SC, but then it becomes absolutely critical to communicate to backers why the delays have happened. With SC, the true believers are willing to forgive all overruns and indeed throw more money at them, despite CIG consistently underdelivering. That sort of attitude is really rather strange.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Luis Dias on July 15, 2016, 09:16:54 am
Yeah well when you promise to deliver a game on an "estimated" timeframe that is so specific as NOVEMBER 2014, I tend to make the wild (I know, I know!) amazing deduction that they are actually speaking of a "delivery date".

Crazy, right? I mean, it's the land-of-the-insane kinda judgement, amirite?

An estimation is not a promise.

I will forever remember this reply of yours whenever I want to feel less dumb. Always. Let me save it on my Evernote.... and done.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: kode on July 15, 2016, 09:22:08 am
Well, word on the street is that if you wise up after throwing $2500 at star ****izen, you kind of might have a chance to get a refund now. or well, at least one guy did, and he only had to involve the attorney general (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/07/14/star-citizen-refund/).

That said, an estimate can be a promise, and I would say it can be considered one in this case, especially adjunct with their ToS (which I believe they conveniently changed later?).
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: -Joshua- on July 15, 2016, 09:32:56 am
Yes, it is. For kickstarter, your estimated delivery date should at least approach your actual delivery date. Overruns can happen, and are usually not a big deal, especially for runaway successes like SC, but then it becomes absolutely critical to communicate to backers why the delays have happened. With SC, the true believers are willing to forgive all overruns and indeed throw more money at them, despite CIG consistently underdelivering. That sort of attitude is really rather strange.

What I find strange is the insistence to turn any Star Citizen thread into a 4chan style hellhole. I very much doubt that is going to change opinions (or atleast, not about Star Citizen :blah:).
Again, not arguing with you there: the devs should never been handed that crazy amount of money nor, recognizing that such an amount of money was probably inevetable considering, should the devs have put that budget to this product (but rather sink that money into sequels instead).

Well, word on the street is that if you wise up after throwing $2500 at star ****izen, you kind of might have a chance to get a refund now. or well, at least one guy did, and he only had to involve the attorney general (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/07/14/star-citizen-refund/).

That said, an estimate can be a promise, and I would say it can be considered one in this case, especially adjunct with their ToS (which I believe they conveniently changed later?).

I kinda wanted to go deeper in on that, because it looks like this was just a "Look just leave us alone" down payment rather then the guy who pulled it off having an amount of legal backing, but blergh.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 09:34:25 am
Not a cult
(http://i.imgur.com/vr18BeL.jpg)
 :wtf:
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 09:41:02 am
I wish freespace threads would get this many posts and activity.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: -Joshua- on July 15, 2016, 10:01:08 am
I wish freespace threads would get this many posts and activity.

That would require you getting a 100 million dollars first.

... Wings of Dawn does make for one hell of a kickstarter pledge.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 10:18:00 am
(http://lazymodders.fsmods.net/axemart/WoD/wingsofcitizens.png)
Fund me
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 10:31:20 am
(https://i.imgur.com/KPC0bHH.png)
:shaking:
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Luis Dias on July 15, 2016, 10:55:17 am
(http://lazymodders.fsmods.net/axemart/WoD/wingsofcitizens.png)
Fund me

No way, that's too cheap man. I'm highly skeptical whenever I see sales like these, I always wonder what info are these guys not really saying about their product, you know?
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: kode on July 15, 2016, 11:20:46 am
(https://i.imgur.com/KPC0bHH.png)
:shaking:

oh **** he's probably gonna die. I feel I shall be bereft of my popcorn when the worst zealots kill themselves out of despair over how much they overhyped the game for themselves. Unless none does, of course, in which I shall of course reach a higher plane of existence due to schadenfreude alone.
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: Spoon on July 15, 2016, 01:08:48 pm
See you in the hearse, commando!
Title: Re: Star Citizen
Post by: The E on July 15, 2016, 01:12:30 pm
I think that's enough for this topic then.