Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bryan See on December 07, 2017, 12:53:51 pm

Title: Net Neutrality
Post by: Bryan See on December 07, 2017, 12:53:51 pm
This is a new thread of old one on Net Neutrality (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=40359.new#new).

As of you know right now, FCC Chair and Nazi sympathizer Ajit Pai announced a vote to kill Net Neutrality on December 14 and allow cable companies to throttle and censor what we see on the Internet. HLP will suffer if he gets the way.

Take action! Go to BattleForTheNet.com (https://www.battleforthenet.com/) to do about it.

We need to keep the Internet free and open.

As I made this thread, protests at Verizon, Comcast, AT&T and Time Warner Cable are underway.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: -Joshua- on December 07, 2017, 01:26:09 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/RloqKCv.jpg)
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: Bryan See on December 07, 2017, 02:03:21 pm
For the record, I've tweeted (https://twitter.com/bryan_see/status/938856359474294784). I'm calling all of HLP to take action to save Net Neutrality now before December 14.

EDIT: I've made another tweet (https://twitter.com/bryan_see/status/938858187314171904). Re-tweet it.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: DefCynodont119 on December 07, 2017, 02:53:12 pm
Seriously, HLP's running costs could go up quite a bit because of this, does anyone really think that our hosting service is going to get by unscathed? I doubt it.

Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: Turambar on December 07, 2017, 03:11:34 pm
I can't stress enough how important it is to vote against your local Republicans.  This attack on our internet infrastructure wouldn't be possible if they hadn't riled up their clueless followers in their self-destructive quest to destroy government regulation.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: Bryan See on December 10, 2017, 11:40:04 am
Turambar's right, but I support net neutrality. And I do not want to support greed, as this isn't what they wanted for me.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: -Joshua- on December 10, 2017, 05:52:30 pm
Teeheehee
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: jr2 on December 10, 2017, 11:20:19 pm
For discussion's sake, what would it take to get us to a point where competition would create NN naturally?  Public utility transmission lines, and ISPs pay for maintenance and upgrades?  Or are there other elements at play?  I know local government backroom deals are also largely to blame (your mayor takes a donation from Comcast and suddenly the town is signing an exclusivity agreement that makes it illegal for any other ISP to provide service in your area), so something might have to be done about that, but not sure how.  Does it fall into interstate commerce because the Internet is largely used for that and ISPs from other states can offer service?
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: -Joshua- on December 11, 2017, 01:09:24 am
Quote
I know local government backroom deals are also largely to blame (your mayor takes a donation from Comcast and suddenly the town is signing an exclusivity agreement that makes it illegal for any other ISP to provide service in your area), so something might have to be done about that, but not sure how.

I was halfway trough that sentence when I just thought "Antitrust laws that ban those sort of agreements", but you make it sound like that is not an option somehow. Thing is in part that I do not think that there is a way where competition can recreate net-neutrality, not now that the infrastructure has advanced to a point where ISPs can throttle connections based on what websites you are visiting to begin with - I can't think of real world examples where there is no net neutrality guaranteed by law somehow. Luis talked about Portugal a bit as he lives there (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=94183.msg1858879#msg1858879) but Portugal is part of the EU and as such bound by laws anyway (eg it should not be taken as an example of "No net neutrality at all").

Also mods? We now have three seperate threads on net neutrality. This is a bit dumb.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: karajorma on December 11, 2017, 01:59:12 am
Actually we have two on NN (one political one which will be moved and merged if it becomes political) and one on the subject people who dislike NN attempt to distract people with whenever NN is mentioned.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: -Joshua- on December 11, 2017, 02:03:27 am
That happened in both the NN threads in politics though :|
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: jr2 on December 11, 2017, 11:55:05 am
Quote
I know local government backroom deals are also largely to blame (your mayor takes a donation from Comcast and suddenly the town is signing an exclusivity agreement that makes it illegal for any other ISP to provide service in your area), so something might have to be done about that, but not sure how.

I was halfway trough that sentence when I just thought "Antitrust laws that ban those sort of agreements", but you make it sound like that is not an option somehow. Thing is in part that I do not think that there is a way where competition can recreate net-neutrality, not now that the infrastructure has advanced to a point where ISPs can throttle connections based on what websites you are visiting to begin with - I can't think of real world examples where there is no net neutrality guaranteed by law somehow. Luis talked about Portugal a bit as he lives there (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=94183.msg1858879#msg1858879) but Portugal is part of the EU and as such bound by laws anyway (eg it should not be taken as an example of "No net neutrality at all").

Also mods? We now have three seperate threads on net neutrality. This is a bit dumb.

Well, we have anti-trust laws, but I don't know if they apply to voluntary exclusivity agreements by local governments.  Might have to be a state-by-state basis, then.  States that allow local municipalities to stifle competition will fall behind in areas affected by a free and open Internet (unless they also pass neutrality laws for their state, in which case, they'll still fall behind due to overpricing and lack of innovation due to captive markets).
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: Bryan See on December 11, 2017, 12:41:47 pm
Anti-trust laws is not only the ones we concern. The US and British conservatives have long declared war on innovation, and not surprisingly, they cozied up to a regime in Russia that not only kills journalists and political opponents, but also fails to recognize the centenary of the October Revolution in 1917.

Plus, the Trump regime is clearly a Luddite-run administration, showing a clear disregard for tech. The FCC plans a vote to kill Net Neutrality in two days time, you don't have much time. If not, then I hope someone come to save us (I've heard on the Mercury News that the Internet Association plans a ISP that respects neutrality unlike Big Cable).

What's worse, the FCC could allow Sinclair Broadcasting to reach 3/4 of American homes. I think some on HLP are the ones, and I've concerned.

I've forgot to mention about Break The Internet (https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/), where we can use FreeSpace-themed styles.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: -Joshua- on December 11, 2017, 01:09:56 pm
Well, we have anti-trust laws, but I don't know if they apply to voluntary exclusivity agreements by local governments.  Might have to be a state-by-state basis, then.  States that allow local municipalities to stifle competition will fall behind in areas affected by a free and open Internet (unless they also pass neutrality laws for their state, in which case, they'll still fall behind due to overpricing and lack of innovation due to captive markets).

So you say that, and I thought "Wait, weren't people excited by Google Fiber for this reason?" and as it turns out: Google Fiber is struggling (https://gizmodo.com/what-happened-to-google-fiber-1792440779). I think that if you aim to find a solution for the monopoly issue you should look to Google Fiber's struggles. I am not a big fan of Google's many things for a variety of reasons: Its company culture, like most US tech companies, suffer a lot from the "The Algorithm Will Fix It" attitude towards problems that can only really be fixed by hiring more people (this is also a problem with, say, Steam. Or facebook. Or twitter). But on the other hand: They are struggling to compete with the big broadband companies whilst having virtually unlimited amounts of money. If they can't do it, no one can.

@Bryan See - I think you're overestimating the impact of this legislation in the long term. Internet providers have to walk a rather fine line here: They have to be exploitative enough to make more money but not exploitative enough to the point that simply endorsing net neutrality will be an instant vote winner for any politician come the 2018 mid term elections. Something tells me that this whole situation won't last long.

(And if it does it's likely to be a boon for the EU in the long term as it means that we can capitalize on the stifled innovation in the US to boost our own tech solutions but that's wishful thinking I haven't put a whole lot of thought in yet).
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: Bryan See on December 16, 2017, 12:52:31 pm
3 days later, the FCC voted (3 vs 2) to repeal net neutrality. I have to say this, but this is bad for us.

But we can still contact Congress to overrule the FCC vote.

Count me as a HLP'er who's unhappy with Big Cable.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: MP-Ryan on December 18, 2017, 07:43:01 pm
3 days later, the FCC voted (3 vs 2) to repeal net neutrality. I have to say this, but this is bad for us.

But we can still contact Congress to overrule the FCC vote.

Count me as a HLP'er who's unhappy with Big Cable.

Don't you live in Singapore?
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: Bryan See on December 19, 2017, 01:15:13 pm
I'm living in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. I merely want to give encouragement.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: -Joshua- on December 19, 2017, 02:51:07 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/RloqKCv.jpg)

I kinda want to repeat this then. The USians can clean up their own mess.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: -Joshua- on April 28, 2018, 12:26:31 am
Quote
I know local government backroom deals are also largely to blame (your mayor takes a donation from Comcast and suddenly the town is signing an exclusivity agreement that makes it illegal for any other ISP to provide service in your area), so something might have to be done about that, but not sure how.

I was halfway trough that sentence when I just thought "Antitrust laws that ban those sort of agreements", but you make it sound like that is not an option somehow. Thing is in part that I do not think that there is a way where competition can recreate net-neutrality, not now that the infrastructure has advanced to a point where ISPs can throttle connections based on what websites you are visiting to begin with - I can't think of real world examples where there is no net neutrality guaranteed by law somehow. Luis talked about Portugal a bit as he lives there (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=94183.msg1858879#msg1858879) but Portugal is part of the EU and as such bound by laws anyway (eg it should not be taken as an example of "No net neutrality at all").

Also mods? We now have three seperate threads on net neutrality. This is a bit dumb.

Well, we have anti-trust laws, but I don't know if they apply to voluntary exclusivity agreements by local governments.  Might have to be a state-by-state basis, then.  States that allow local municipalities to stifle competition will fall behind in areas affected by a free and open Internet (unless they also pass neutrality laws for their state, in which case, they'll still fall behind due to overpricing and lack of innovation due to captive markets).

Turns out that the FCC is dragging it's heels so they can prevent states from implementing their own laws (http://fortune.com/2018/04/27/fcc-is-allegedly-intentionally-delaying-the-official-repeal-of-net-neutrality/).
Title: Re: Net Neutrality
Post by: Bryan See on June 11, 2018, 05:31:47 pm
Today is June 11. Net Neutrality repeal goes into effect now. But, as one favors net neutrality, the fight isn't over.