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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Luis Dias on May 23, 2019, 01:22:14 pm

Title: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on May 23, 2019, 01:22:14 pm
Upcoming series, apparently about a vineyard.  :yes:


EDIT: For those who cannot watch the embedded video (which might have region restrictions), this seems to work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGijGIZrGKc - Sandwich
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 23, 2019, 01:57:09 pm
Inb4kirkwars.


I'll be keeping an eye on this topic.  ;7
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on May 23, 2019, 05:50:21 pm
My feelings on this are massively mixed. If it's any good then yay, but if not then I'll just jam my fingers in my ears and go lalala like I do with Discovery.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Rhymes on May 23, 2019, 07:52:09 pm
I'm excited to see what the Post-Nemesis world of Star Trek looks like, and Patrick Stewart is a net improvement to anything he's in. Hopefully it's good.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: TechnoD11 on May 23, 2019, 10:48:56 pm
Patrick Stewart is a net improvement to anything he's in. Hopefully it's good.

I agree with you on all accounts except one:
(https://advg2g.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mG8BzRUGWVtGN7BmPK9yJNC43rtWgE2RCoUwrIlsEX75IUpZbup7EscHc_RcjjTooNC2Wo32uH5ltKtn7hEU-Y-Q8ck4SF9MUDMpNTPgISriCI3Pvk4bK2-tuEer4osmEQNtaXiWn4T8hAn03U4s1No7HgDlmbvY4lfYnnrhpinU3Hx2wBp2n5-xTW1tD_iAkmGFAWK6UejBVXr9XxF24Fg?width=598&height=48&cropmode=none)
Lest anyone forget that the Emoji movie was a thing that was actually made. :nono:
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: karajorma on May 23, 2019, 11:49:10 pm
He probably was an improvement on even that.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on May 24, 2019, 03:33:39 am
He probably was an improvement on even that.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohze18HyaRmSLh01q/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Hunter on May 24, 2019, 05:48:13 am
Step right up, get your Picard vintage! Step right up!
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Sandwich on May 27, 2019, 10:02:15 am
So getting into this a wee bit more, the voice-over in the trailer says:

Quote
"15 years ago—today—you led us out of the darkness. You commanded the greatest rescue armada in history. Then—the unimaginable. What did that cost you? Your faith? Your faith in us? Your faith in yourself? Tell us, why did you leave Starfleet, Admiral?"

Also, from Wikipedia:

Quote
The series is set 20 years after Jean-Luc Picard's last appearance in Star Trek: Nemesis (2002), and finds the character deeply affected by the destruction of Romulus as depicted in the film Star Trek (2009).

So 5 years after Nemesis, Picard leads a rescue armada. The most likely destination for this armada is obviously Romulus. The mentioned "unimaginable" is possibly the actual destruction of Romulus, or perhaps some terrible mishap that took place shortly thereafter. Regardless, this "unimaginable" event seems to have some sort of connection with a decision Picard made ("...the unimaginable. What did that cost you?").

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 27, 2019, 11:15:28 am
Is the trailer region locked?  It says unavailable in the UK :/
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: karajorma on May 27, 2019, 11:22:43 am
Region locking a trailer would possibly be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. "No you can't watch an advert for our product, it might make you want to buy it! You might help create a buzz about it online. You might encourage other people to see it."
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: BlueFlames on May 27, 2019, 12:27:03 pm
Region locking a trailer would possibly be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

I've heard of movie production companies copyright striking the official trailers for their films on the films' official YouTube channels.

Never underestimate the power of dumb.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Black Wolf on May 27, 2019, 05:50:02 pm
Region locking a trailer would possibly be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. "No you can't watch an advert for our product, it might make you want to buy it! You might help create a buzz about it online. You might encourage other people to see it."

I'm guessing that's a direct quote from CBS? Because the trailer is indeed region locked. Easy enough to find mirrors though.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: karajorma on May 27, 2019, 06:33:10 pm
Never underestimate the power of dumb.

I was going to comment underneath that sentence saying that since it's that dumb, of course that's what happened. It's not that I didn't believe they'd region locked it, it was just that stupidity like that should be pointed out.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Sandwich on May 28, 2019, 08:53:49 am
I know releasing the full versions of shows & movies is highly-dependent on distribution rights in each local region... perhaps trailers are for some reason subject to the same restrictions.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: perihelion on May 28, 2019, 09:34:19 pm
Yeah, that's more or less the point.  All real barriers to distribution are pretty much gone.  You can watch anything you want and whatever time you want where ever you want.  Except for these daft little artificial barriers to distribution that the cable companies and content providers artificially impose in order to hang onto a hopelessly outmoded business model.

Seriously.  I've been pretty religious about buying legitimate copies of anything that I like enough to stream more than a few times.  But when they insist on this kind of asinine restrictions on, "Oh, you found a legal copy of the song you want, but this album is only available in iTunes Nigeria currently.  Please check out the offerings available in your current region..."  I'm paraphrasing, but I'm not making this up.  Found a rare song by a band I liked and wanted to buy a legitimate copy.  I can't.  Because I'm not in fricking NIGERIA.

This is when I seriously start asking myself why I even bother trying the legal approach.  When they make it this difficult to be the good guy, why bother?  Why not just be a pirate?  And this is me, ME saying this.  I haven't pirated anything in darn near 2 decades!
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on May 29, 2019, 04:01:27 am
So getting into this a wee bit more, the voice-over in the trailer says:

Quote
"15 years ago—today—you led us out of the darkness. You commanded the greatest rescue armada in history. Then—the unimaginable. What did that cost you? Your faith? Your faith in us? Your faith in yourself? Tell us, why did you leave Starfleet, Admiral?"

Also, from Wikipedia:

Quote
The series is set 20 years after Jean-Luc Picard's last appearance in Star Trek: Nemesis (2002), and finds the character deeply affected by the destruction of Romulus as depicted in the film Star Trek (2009).

So 5 years after Nemesis, Picard leads a rescue armada. The most likely destination for this armada is obviously Romulus. The mentioned "unimaginable" is possibly the actual destruction of Romulus, or perhaps some terrible mishap that took place shortly thereafter. Regardless, this "unimaginable" event seems to have some sort of connection with a decision Picard made ("...the unimaginable. What did that cost you?").

Thoughts?

Seems you got it pretty much figured it out.

I guess this will be a show with Picard starring as a kind of a captain of a rogueish ship, with questionable characters in it. I like where this is going, almost reads like what Logan is to the X-Man series.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: MP-Ryan on May 31, 2019, 11:17:48 am
Patrick Stewart will not be a part of a Trek that is complete garbage, so I have faith this will actually be good.  As someone else said, PatStew makes everything better.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: karajorma on June 01, 2019, 12:10:33 am
*cough* Nemesis *cough*
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 01, 2019, 02:06:27 am
That was.........pissing awful.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Novachen on June 01, 2019, 04:02:14 am
*cough* Nemesis *cough*

Had still some strong scenes.
Because the TNG movies were more about Data in general IMO, it was actually not too bad.

Sure, it could be much better... if they had kept most of the deleted scenes in the movie.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: BlueFlames on June 01, 2019, 08:58:34 am
*cough* Nemesis *cough*

... it was actually not too bad.

It was bad enough that the entire franchise went on hiatus for several years and needed a reboot upon its return.  That's pretty bad.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: mjn.mixael on June 01, 2019, 09:10:31 am
To be fair... The franchise had been in decline for a few years beforehand.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on June 03, 2019, 06:05:57 am
Yeah, since they started making TNG movies.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Trivial Psychic on June 03, 2019, 06:57:55 am
First Contact was their last "Winner".  After that the even-number-curse was broken... but not in a good way.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on June 03, 2019, 09:13:13 am
I will never understand the reverence towards First Contact. It's a dumb stupid movie.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on June 03, 2019, 09:48:03 am
I will never understand the reverence towards First Contact. It's a dumb stupid movie.

It has a pretty decent script, all the actors are into it and seem to be having fun, the plot is decent and builds off of TNG's single best plot thread, the action setpieces are good, the effects still hold up pretty well.... It's a good movie. It's not a masterpiece on the scale of Undiscovered Country or Wrath of Khan, but it is, at worst, serviceable. The weakest element in it is Alice Krige as the Borg Queen (And that's only the weakest element because it made the borg less interesting, not because of any weakness on Krige's part or how she was used in the story). Out of the four TNG movies, it is easily and with quite a margin the best one; Personally, I would rank it directly behind Undiscovered Country in terms of overall quality.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on June 03, 2019, 10:00:05 am
You should rewatch it with your brain turned on. I agree with you it's the best TNG movie (I have yet to watch Nemesis, but I will believe everyone else on the matter of its overall badness), that it is somewhat fun and campy, but the amount of sheer stupidity in that script is beyond words.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on June 03, 2019, 10:04:30 am
I last saw it a year or two ago. I stand by my opinions :P
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on June 03, 2019, 10:40:57 am
the amount of sheer stupidity in that script is beyond words.
I'd argue that's par for the course with Star Trek (and compared to the likes of Nemesis, it looks downright smart), and far from being the worst that Trek can do in that regard. Remember, episodes like Best of Both Worlds or films like Wrath of Khan are the exception, not the rule.
Then again, I am usually willing to excuse stupid stories if they make up for it in action or comedy.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on June 03, 2019, 10:55:48 am
Even Star Trek V has an incredible tight script compared to FC, let alone all the other 5 TOS movies.


I wished I was being facetious. Again, this harkens back at my lack of undertanding about how people really think FC is a good movie. I just don't get it.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: BlueFlames on June 03, 2019, 11:37:44 am
First Contact works best as a standalone movie.  It is a good sci-fi action movie, taken on its own.  In the wider context of Star Trek, it doesn't fit the themes; it does a disservice to the Borg, and it set half the cast on the road of wanting to be action stars in the subsequent Trek films.  I blame First Contact for the terrible dune buggy scene in Nemesis.

Hot take:  The TNG films peaked with Generations.  While it undermined the send-off that the TOS cast got in The Undiscovered Country, it was an original concept that executed at the level of a good, two-hour long TNG episode.  And, you know, why are you buying tickets to a Trek movie, if not to watch some Star Trek?  Don't @ me.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 03, 2019, 12:48:03 pm
It had loads of action and featured that whole discovery of warp drive thing.

Win in my book.

Plus time travel.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on June 03, 2019, 01:26:15 pm
Even Star Trek V has an incredible tight script compared to FC
I will admit to not be aware as to what constitutes a "tight script" from a film-making perspective, so I can't really comment on that.


Quote
how people really think FC is a good movie. I just don't get it.
That however, is a good summary of how I feel regarding Star Trek 4...
As for 8, well it has the good fortune how a) being an even-numbered Trek film back when the "even/odd Trek film" meme was a thing, and b) being nested between the godawaful ST 7 & 9.

Throw in an established cool popular villain (queen antics aside), loads of good-looking action (action-movie logic aside), that whole discovery of warp drive thing, plus some good performances from the cast, and you've got a solid recipe for a popular film.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: mjn.mixael on June 03, 2019, 01:42:48 pm
A tight script means everything that's in the movie is there for a reason and has some sort of payoff. Think The Dark Knight... Where even the lawyer who tries to blackmail Bruce Wayne early in the film later appears as part of Joker's schemes. Everything in the film pushes the plot forward in some meaningful way.

It's been a while since I watched FC, but I don't recall much waste in terms of scenes. So I'd agree it has a tight script.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on June 03, 2019, 06:55:01 pm
It's down to the feel of the film too. Even Wrath of Khan had one or two silly plot elements (Ceti Alpha V being Ceti Alpha VI comes to mind), but you can suspend your disbelief because it's a brilliant film. It's a swashbuckling high seas adventure, but in space. First Contact tries to ape a lot of that, somewhat unsuccessfully, and comes off as a dumb albeit very enjoyable action film. The TNG films are otherwise mostly pish.

And I do agree the franchise has been in a decline ever since. Enterprise ruined much of the canon, but it also tried very hard at times to be faithful and congruent, where I feel Discovery really hasn't been. It's also just downright unwatchable at times and I really worry about having the same staff working on ST: Picard.

Ultimately it doesn't matter though, as far as I see it, Star Trek has been tarnished for all time in much the same way Star Wars was ruined by the prequels. They'll never go away and they can never be fixed. Ever. It's like finding out your best friend was actually eating babies for as long as you've known them. So **** it, if it's good then that's good and if it's not then it doesn't matter because it's wrecked anyway and I'm past caring any more.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on June 04, 2019, 04:28:22 am
Ok, even I will never say that Generations is the peak TNG movie. Let's say you found my limits there.

Regarding tightness in FC, the whole story is bull****. The Borg want to invade Earth, but then they actually want to go back in time to invade Earth when there's no Federation, but then they actually want to stop First Contact, but then what the queen had in mind was actually to persuade Data to join the ranks. Those are four different plots and villain intents, they are not interchangeable.

If you want to invade Earth you go with multiple cubes, not one.
If you want to go back in time and invade Earth when it's vulnerable, do so far away from any nagging starfleet ship that may enter your slipstream.
If you want to stop First Contact, you... don't need to. If you invade Earth ten years before that, there is no First Contact.
If you wanted Data to join the ranks, weren't there better ways to do so?

Notice, I haven't touched the whole Queen debacle.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: karajorma on June 04, 2019, 05:02:43 am
To be fair

Quote
If you want to invade Earth you go with multiple cubes, not one.

Last time they tried they only sent one cube and they damn near succeeded. And this time they still come pretty damn close.

Quote
If you want to go back in time and invade Earth when it's vulnerable, do so far away from any nagging starfleet ship that may enter your slipstream.

Going back in time appears to be a backup plan they tried when plan A failed. Given that the other choice was to be destroyed, it's not a bad plan. Once again, it almost succeeded.

As for the rest of it, yeah, I tend to agree.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on June 04, 2019, 06:26:46 am
It's not that you cannot argue around every instance of the plot, which I guess you can to a point, it's the constant barrage of unjustified turns akin to children's playful narratives "I'm gonna destroy you with this giant robot! Ahah you wished, my powerful gun smashes it to pieces! Oh yeah? Surprise I have a hidden sphere I pulled from the robot's ass! Oh yeah? my ship is gonna football it! Surprise my sphere TRAVELS THROUGH TIME ahahah you didn't see that comin! Oh yeah? My ship will follow you and blow you to pieces! Oh yeah?

By the time they change their plans by the fifth or sixth time, I've already checked out from the movie.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on June 04, 2019, 06:51:14 am
Regarding tightness in FC, the whole story is bull****. The Borg want to invade Earth, but then they actually want to go back in time to invade Earth when there's no Federation, but then they actually want to stop First Contact, but then what the queen had in mind was actually to persuade Data to join the ranks. Those are four different plots and villain intents, they are not interchangeable.

... A villain having having multiple plans and approaches is a problem now?

I'm sorry, I really can't wrap my head around this: If any of those plans interfered with each other, or if the script had forgotten about any of them at any point, then you might have a point, but it doesn't.

Quote
If you want to go back in time and invade Earth when it's vulnerable, do so far away from any nagging starfleet ship that may enter your slipstream.
If you want to stop First Contact, you... don't need to. If you invade Earth ten years before that, there is no First Contact.
If you wanted Data to join the ranks, weren't there better ways to do so?

Oh no, the villains' plan has a weakness, what a glaring issue!

I mean, if you're arguing on that level, pretty much any story where villains are thwarted is nonsense and bad. Why doesn't Obadiah Stane just shoot Tony Stark, or hire a thug to do that?
Why doesn't Khan just ram the Reliant into the Enterprise to disable her, then kill Kirk in one-on-one combat?
Why doesn't the Empire make sure the reactor room of the second Death Star is thoroughly shielded and armored first?

It's not that you cannot argue around every instance of the plot, which I guess you can to a point, it's the constant barrage of unjustified turns akin to children's playful narratives "I'm gonna destroy you with this giant robot! Ahah you wished, my powerful gun smashes it to pieces! Oh yeah? Surprise I have a hidden sphere I pulled from the robot's ass! Oh yeah? my ship is gonna football it! Surprise my sphere TRAVELS THROUGH TIME ahahah you didn't see that comin! Oh yeah? My ship will follow you and blow you to pieces! Oh yeah?

By the time they change their plans by the fifth or sixth time, I've already checked out from the movie.

...

Yeah, no, I don't see a single instance of an "unjustified turn" in this movie. Or, for that matter, any real change of plans.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on June 04, 2019, 08:40:00 am
We'll just violently disagree about it forever then :D
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on June 04, 2019, 11:01:06 am
Yeaahhhhhhh.   I would split the FC thing but then there wouldn't be much picard left in the thread :lol:


Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Sandwich on June 13, 2019, 01:45:05 am
Yeaahhhhhhh.   I would split the FC thing but then there wouldn't be much picard left in the thread :lol:

Story of our forum. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Rhymes on July 20, 2019, 10:19:51 pm
New trailer dropped. Looks pretty cool.

Title: Re: Picard
Post by: TechnoD11 on July 20, 2019, 11:11:44 pm
New trailer dropped. Looks pretty cool.


This has the potential to be ****ing amazing. However I've seen Discovery so I'm doing my best to temper my expectations. Star Trek TNG is the first show I ever watched to completion, and Star Trek has been a huge part of my life growing up.

Please, CBS please. Don't **** this up.


Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on July 20, 2019, 11:18:12 pm
Internationally viewable version of the trailer:

Title: Re: Picard
Post by: mjn.mixael on July 20, 2019, 11:40:47 pm
I'm not mad at it
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on July 21, 2019, 01:42:22 am
looks goooooooood
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: karajorma on July 21, 2019, 02:00:17 am
Well, I've been complaining for about 20 years that they should just make a Trek show set after TNG instead of constantly mining nostalgia with prequels and reboots. Since they don't have to worry about future events being set in stone that removes one major source of problems.

In Picard they also have a great lead character (unlike Discovery where they hobbled a good actress with an unlikeable character). So that's another plus.

BUT.....I have no faith that they can pull this off after seeing the total ****ing mess that Discovery was. Not all of Discovery's faults were caused by those two problems. Most were caused by ****ty writing.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Rhymes on July 21, 2019, 02:12:45 am
I would also argue that Discovery has been hobbled by a revolving door of creative leads that made it difficult for the team and the show to find a groove and settle into it. It's hard to write well when you're answering to completely different people at different times with different ideas of what the show should be. If the Picard team can pick an idea and stick to it I think they have a much better shot of making this series succeed.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: karajorma on July 21, 2019, 05:00:16 am
Red Letter Media pointed out that they have 21 producers. Watch the credits and count them. That's absolutely ridiculous.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Cobra on July 21, 2019, 01:43:05 pm
I like how this looks. There's an interesting twist with what looks like the Borg kids from Voyager being in command of a pirate Borg cube. Seven of Nine seems to have had at least some of Annika Hansen resurface... or she's Seven of Nine but less Borg-y. And Data's fat because Spiner got fat. Not sure I like that aspect of the show.

Fat Data. Hmm.

Can androids get fat?
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: mjn.mixael on July 21, 2019, 01:52:06 pm
Can androids get fat?

It's part of becoming more human.  :lol:
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Cobra on July 21, 2019, 01:59:42 pm
It's part of becoming more human.  :lol:

B-4: dumb as hell, but had the ability to lose and gain wait, apparently.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Scourge of Ages on July 21, 2019, 02:16:38 pm
I am intrigued as well
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on July 21, 2019, 03:24:41 pm
I'm hoping the over-the-top trailer music isn't indicative of Discovery-style melodrama.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 21, 2019, 04:09:40 pm
Internationally viewable version of the trailer:



Removed by uploader. 😭😭
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Nightmare on July 21, 2019, 05:01:44 pm
Removed by uploader. 😭😭

Bad omen
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on July 22, 2019, 11:13:21 am
This is giving me red alert signs everywhere. Picard? Data? Seven of Nine? The Borg? Another plot about saving the universe? Looks like a college-written pitch for a fan novel that every roomate will just laugh at its over-the-topness.

I like how Data looks though. Finally looking his actual age. The movies were a bit weird in that regard.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on July 22, 2019, 11:46:48 am
This is giving me red alert signs everywhere. Picard? Data? Seven of Nine? The Borg? Another plot about saving the universe? Looks like a college-written pitch for a fan novel that every roomate will just laugh at its over-the-topness.

Oh no, they're reusing some of the best characters and plot lines! THE HORROR!
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Det. Bullock on July 22, 2019, 11:49:48 am
This is giving me red alert signs everywhere. Picard? Data? Seven of Nine? The Borg? Another plot about saving the universe? Looks like a college-written pitch for a fan novel that every roomate will just laugh at its over-the-topness.

Oh no, they're reusing some of the best characters and plot lines! THE HORROR!

There's Kurtzman behind the wheel, one might appreciate the nostalgia rush but if it's gonna be bolted on another Kurtzman plot like Discovery it's just a bit of spices on a meal that tastes like nothing.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Nightmare on July 22, 2019, 11:56:13 am
This is giving me red alert signs everywhere. Picard? Data? Seven of Nine? The Borg? Another plot about saving the universe? Looks like a college-written pitch for a fan novel that every roomate will just laugh at its over-the-topness.

Oh no, they're reusing some of the best characters and plot lines! THE HORROR!

Reusing all good characters is a reliable method to create both epic stories and epic fail stories.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on July 22, 2019, 12:07:53 pm
What characters they're using and what plots they hint at tells us precisely nothing about the quality of the show.

Even Kurzman's involvement doesn't (With the usual disclaimer that I like Discovery a lot)
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Cobra on July 22, 2019, 01:52:12 pm
This is giving me red alert signs everywhere. Picard? Data? Seven of Nine? The Borg? Another plot about saving the universe? Looks like a college-written pitch for a fan novel that every roomate will just laugh at its over-the-topness.

I like how Data looks though. Finally looking his actual age. The movies were a bit weird in that regard.

1) Data's not supposed to age. He's not supposed to have an age. The movies were "a bit weird" because Spiner's age was actually accentuated by the makeup. Now he's bloated versus slim like he was in the TV show and first couple of TNG movies.
2) What do you mean "another" save the universe plot? Even in the books those are kind of rare.
3) Oh NO! Seven of Nine's back, shown to have grown since being freed from the Collective? GASP. The Borg, an ever-present threat in the galaxy that have been part of Star Trek for almost 40 years? A what-if scenario about a Borg cube not trying to assimilate the kitchen sink? THE HORROR.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 22, 2019, 02:05:22 pm
Jeri Ryan hasn't aged well 😭😭😭
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Nightmare on July 22, 2019, 02:10:24 pm
3) Oh NO! Seven of Nine's back, shown to have grown since being freed from the Collective? GASP. The Borg, an ever-present threat in the galaxy that have been part of Star Trek for almost 40 years? A what-if scenario about a Borg cube not trying to assimilate the kitchen sink? THE HORROR.

Is it set only after TNG or after VOY as well? Presence of 7/9 says "yes" but the end of VOY was more like "no way".
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Cobra on July 22, 2019, 02:14:39 pm
Is it set only after TNG or after VOY as well? Presence of 7/9 says "yes" but the end of VOY was more like "no way".

VOY takes place during the TNG movie timeline, since Janeway is back in the Alpha Quadrant and promoted to admiral by the time Nemesis takes place.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Nightmare on July 22, 2019, 02:17:14 pm
Ah OK it's been a few years since I watched that~
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: karajorma on July 23, 2019, 01:54:23 am
VOY takes place during the TNG movie timeline, since Janeway is back in the Alpha Quadrant and promoted to admiral by the time Nemesis takes place.

You have to wonder if Picard quit Star Fleet when she was promoted to Admiral and he had to stay a captain. Cause I know that would be the point I'd realise my career wasn't going to advance! They probably only promoted him to admiral in the hope they could Kirk him back down to Captain.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on July 23, 2019, 06:17:00 am
Some misconceptions about my comments.

First, by Data showing his age, I mean he looks less "aged" than in the movies. As Cobra correctly puts it, he shouldn't age at all, but I get the point about the slimness.

Second, my red flags are about how the show seems more interested in doing a list of "star trek top hits" rather than a good sci fi story. I don't mind watching Seven of Nine again, she was the best thing about Voyager after all (perhaps excepting Mulgrew), and I have to disagree with Dekker, Ryan is just fine!

Problem is, I have seen all of these "hits" before, multiple times (what can go wrong by doing the Voyager gag of milking the Borg again) and the new "stuff" just seems boring and irrelevant.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: karajorma on July 23, 2019, 10:27:54 am
Now he's bloated versus slim like he was in the TV show and first couple of TNG movies.

They can just say he needed more space for extra RAM. :p
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 23, 2019, 11:31:37 am
Wasted a good bloatware opportunity there...
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on July 26, 2019, 07:41:23 am
Just found this trailer analysis by Trek Central. Looks like they going with post apocalypse (the controversial supernova event) Romulan's experimenting with Borg technology presumably to try and regain some lost power. Gotta love the lab sign saying 5,843 days without assimilation lol! Looks like they have control of a cube too. Considering Romulan's and Borg were my favourite villains from TNG this pleases me greatly.

(notice how they slimmed data in their thumbnail? now he looks about right haha)

Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Trivial Psychic on July 26, 2019, 04:22:33 pm
I'm surprised they aren't gonna try to use the same cgi de-aging technology on Brent Spiner that was used on Samuel L Jackson for Captain Marvel... that was seamless.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Black Wolf on July 28, 2019, 10:49:01 pm
Jeri Ryan hasn't aged well 😭😭😭

She's over 50 and she's had a couple of kids. She's aged kinda amazingly really.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on July 29, 2019, 02:11:54 am
I'm just making it easier on myself to let her go 😭😭
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on August 10, 2019, 01:35:16 am
Oooooh looks like Robert Picardo, the EMH Doctor from Voyager might be in Star Trek Picard too. God this show opens up so many cool things for not just TNG fans but Voyager and DS9 fans too! :)

Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on August 10, 2019, 03:32:27 am
He's in anything he can get and has less range than a rubber band gun.

I do like him though 😂😂
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on October 05, 2019, 09:21:38 pm
RED ALERT! We've got another new trailer. The beard is back! The old uniforms make a cameo! 7 or 9 is doing her Ronin thing. And we introduce the most hated admiral in Star Trek history haha!

US:

People like me outside of US:
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: mjn.mixael on October 05, 2019, 11:24:09 pm
Boy that sure is a lot of shooting and explosions.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 05, 2019, 11:56:28 pm
You know whose story has never been fully resolved in Next Gen... Commander Sela.  If this takes place post-Romulus-destruction, she could be out for blood... if she's still alive.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on October 06, 2019, 05:21:12 am
Boy that sure is a lot of shooting and explosions.

The quantity of shooting and explosions are the gauge by which you measure the worth of the series, it's a central theme of Star Trek and always has been.

Said noone. Ever.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Sandwich on October 06, 2019, 01:02:43 pm
Ok, I'll confess—I'm totally a glutton for the fan-service of bringing in as many of the old characters as possible. I was literally going "Aww!" for those final scenes. ;)
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Nightmare on October 06, 2019, 02:00:12 pm
Yeah, aside super huge explosions a decent amount of Fanservice is needed in NuST to win people for The Plot. ;)
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on October 07, 2019, 09:11:42 am
Picard is a ninja swordsman now, get'em Jean Luc!
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on January 27, 2020, 01:49:33 am
I've seen the first ep now.

My thoughts (SPOILER ALERT):
Spoiler:
I loved the opening shot with the camera closing in on the Enterprise D (which had some interesting design modifications) and going through the window into to the room.. the kind of shot you always wanted to see as a kid watching TNG but knew they couldn't really do effectively (well not without spending some heavy money lol, which is kind of ironic considering the 60s failed trek pilot sort of has a camera through bridge window shot)..

I enjoyed the whole episode but I feel like I can't quite give judgement yet. I need to know more about what's going on and need to see how things pan out story wise.

Also the zero mention of Lal and Lore seems a bit strange in a world where the daystrom institute desperately wanted to replicate Data. I mean what happened to their parts after they were disassembled? B4 was in a drawer so where's the Lal and Lore drawers haha?

First thought was.. did the writers forget them?.. but that seems unlikely consider they brought Hugh back which means they clearly remember Descent 1 & 2 which Lore was in. The whole Daughter 2.0 storyline suggests the Lal episode is something they know too. Plus Frakes directed that one and he's involved in Picard.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on January 27, 2020, 06:31:56 am
I liked it, mostly due to the production values and the acting. The plot is the most ridiculous thing ever, which is mostly expected from the dudes who brought us nuTrek.

Spoilers follow. Where's the spoiler tag? Oh here it is.

Spoiler:
The Federation is apparently Trumpian now, doesn't give a **** if a whole species needs help after a "galaxy threatening supernova" destroyed their home planet. And robots made a terminator twist and destroyed a shipyard, because that's very intelligent and totally what a robot rebellion would do, very smart. And Data has two daughters now, because of course he has, and the Romulans are building a borg cube because of course they are, I wonder if they are going to bring back Locutus, because of course they ****ing will and I'm already fuming at it.

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the sets and the acting. I like old Picard. If only they kept the show small and witty, Picard on a slow detective inquiry, talking with people and figuring things out. Ah, that'd have been nice. I guess they pitched him "Logan but with Picard on it", and he didn't know better to realise it was a con.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on January 27, 2020, 08:37:41 am
I liked it, mostly due to the production values and the acting. The plot is the most ridiculous thing ever, which is mostly expected from the dudes who brought us nuTrek.

Really? More ridiculous than [insert list of truly stupid TNG episodes here]?

Quote
Spoiler:
The Federation is apparently Trumpian now, doesn't give a **** if a whole species needs help after a "galaxy threatening supernova" destroyed their home planet.

What the show definitely is going for is to juxtapose Picard's ideals of what Starfleet should be with what it is. That's actually something of a recurring theme going back to early TNG; What has definitely changed is the framing: In TNG, it was always single officers that were morally corrupt, never the institution.
Now, it seems, the curtain of being in the comfort and safety of the Federation flagship has been pulled away, and Picard has to deal with the fact that the Jellicoes, Nechayevs and "Measure of a Man"-era Maddoxes are far more representative of Starfleet than he himself is.

Also, that species was the Romulans. That the more distrustful amongst the Starfleet leadership are less willing to embark on a huge effort to save one of the Federations traditional rivals is, perhaps not that surprising (but do contrast this with ST6 and the Khitomer catastrophe!).

Quote
Spoiler:
And robots made a terminator twist and destroyed a shipyard, because that's very intelligent and totally what a robot rebellion would do, very smart.

Are you seriously complaining that the show didn't give you the full details of 20 years of in-universe time in the 46 minutes of runtime it had for its first episode?

Seriously, if you could explain to me why "this show has unexplained mysteries in its pilot episode" is a bad thing now, I would much appreciate it.

Quote
Spoiler:
And Data has two daughters now, because of course he has,

He doesn't. A Starfleet officer named Bruce Maddox, who was working on replicating Soong-type androids as far back as TNG Season 2's "A measure of a man" and who regularly conversed with Data has built two androids using one of Data's paintings as inspiration for their looks.

While you're explaining things, could you explain why you not paying attention to exposition is something the show did wrong?

Quote
Spoiler:
and the Romulans are building a borg cube because of course they are,

There's a difference between "experimenting on a wreck" and "building", I think.

Quote
Spoiler:
I wonder if they are going to bring back Locutus, because of course they ****ing will and I'm already fuming at it.

Hmm, yes, the most traumatic event in Picard's life being a factor in a series literally called Star Trek Picard sure would be bad.

Quote
I guess they pitched him "Logan but with Picard on it", and he didn't know better to realise it was a con.

Are you suggesting that Stewart conned himself, then?
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on January 27, 2020, 12:14:46 pm
I liked it, mostly due to the production values and the acting. The plot is the most ridiculous thing ever, which is mostly expected from the dudes who brought us nuTrek.

Really? More ridiculous than [insert list of truly stupid TNG episodes here]?

Hey, don't make me defend stupid TNG episodes. Stupid is stupid. The thing is, shows like this aren't done by episode any more, they have one congruent story, not just an arc, but a whole story, so I'm less sympathetic to the plight of having a real stupid one episode or two in a whole season. There isn't that anymore, either the *whole* season story makes sense or it doesn't.

I think that has somewhat ruined these shows for me, because I believe they feel they have to amp up the stakes and have it always be about SAVING THE GALAXY FROM A SUPERNOVA or something silly like that, instead of having multiple stories that can be smaller and interesting in their own cute way.

Quote
What the show definitely is going for is to juxtapose Picard's ideals of what Starfleet should be with what it is. That's actually something of a recurring theme going back to early TNG; What has definitely changed is the framing: In TNG, it was always single officers that were morally corrupt, never the institution.
Now, it seems, the curtain of being in the comfort and safety of the Federation flagship has been pulled away, and Picard has to deal with the fact that the Jellicoes, Nechayevs and "Measure of a Man"-era Maddoxes are far more representative of Starfleet than he himself is.

Yes, I don't like it. It makes it, let's say the word, canon, that the future is just like the present, with added pew pew colors and woosh woosh ships. I liked DS9 just like any other guy, but I loved TNG's weird sense of how the show is set in a future where things we still struggle to understand nowadays are just taken for granted in the future. How racism was so convincingly destroyed it didn't even register in many ways to the crew. Apparently, that idea is out the window now, we will talk about "our enemies" just like Trump does today. This may be better for the writers who are good at drama, but then it just makes Star Trek just like everything else, and we lose something unique.

Quote
Also, that species was the Romulans. That the more distrustful amongst the Starfleet leadership are less willing to embark on a huge effort to save one of the Federations traditional rivals is, perhaps not that surprising (but do contrast this with ST6 and the Khitomer catastrophe!).

That occurred to me as well! Remember that Kirk in that movie was indeed a reactionary curmudgeon that nonetheless went with the program, set out by the Federation, to make the peace treaty happen.

Quote
Are you seriously complaining that the show didn't give you the full details of 20 years of in-universe time in the 46 minutes of runtime it had for its first episode?

Yes, because plot in fiction doesn't work like reality. You can't just throw that bombshell and wait we just accept it at face value. I mean, I am accepting it for the sake of the story, but I just have a million questions about it, and it just smells lazy as ****. I almost had a PTSD from Mass Effect's ending be about how organics can't really deal with robots out of nowhere. Discovery also had its story about a runaway AI going to DESTROY THE ORGANICS IN ALL THE GALAXY (sigh), so it's like these writers are really pushing that viewpoint. It's like they read Dune last weekend and really wanted to write the butlerian jihad onto the star trek universe.

Quote
Seriously, if you could explain to me why "this show has unexplained mysteries in its pilot episode" is a bad thing now, I would much appreciate it.

More like, "I recognize all these lazy JJ type mystery boxes and how half of them will be forgotten, a quarter lazily explained away and I guess we'll have some good answers about the rest".


Quote
He doesn't. A Starfleet officer named Bruce Maddox, who was working on replicating Soong-type androids as far back as TNG Season 2's "A measure of a man" and who regularly conversed with Data has built two androids using one of Data's paintings as inspiration for their looks.

While you're explaining things, could you explain why you not paying attention to exposition is something the show did wrong?

Oh come on, I wasn't being literal, but I was very much being precise. Regardless of the reproduction methods, she (they) is (are) clearly written as his daughters.

Quote
There's a difference between "experimenting on a wreck" and "building", I think.

Your theory is that this is a research site within a borg cube wreck? Ok, that makes sense. The plot will revolve around salvaged borg tech.

Quote
Hmm, yes, the most traumatic event in Picard's life being a factor in a series literally called Star Trek Picard sure would be bad.

Playin the hits, lazily. I bet they'll end the show with him playing the flute. And I can't quite wrap my head around that birthday banner. Didn't he hate that stuff anyway? Wasn't the Enterprise D destroyed? Did he choose to save that banner instead of that statue he just threw away like no biggie in Generations? Just giggling here.

Quote
Are you suggesting that Stewart conned himself, then?

Con is a harsh word, but still. I'm somewhat pre-convinced this is a bad story written lazily and wink-wink-ly. I'm happy to be convinced otherwise by the show though!
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on January 27, 2020, 12:49:53 pm
Yes, I don't like it. It makes it, let's say the word, canon, that the future is just like the present, with added pew pew colors and woosh woosh ships. I liked DS9 just like any other guy, but I loved TNG's weird sense of how the show is set in a future where things we still struggle to understand nowadays are just taken for granted in the future. How racism was so convincingly destroyed it didn't even register in many ways to the crew. Apparently, that idea is out the window now, we will talk about "our enemies" just like Trump does today. This may be better for the writers who are good at drama, but then it just makes Star Trek just like everything else, and we lose something unique.

Gonna disagree there. The main thing for me here is that, in TNG, Utopia never seemed to require work. The Federation and Starfleet were good and just with some outliers that were sooner or later uncovered and punished, but on the whole, it was safe and secure. That, to a degree, mirrors the "End of History" thing that was around during the 90s; back then (at least to me in my teenage years), the world seemed safe and secure and largely free of bad actors.
But that was never true, was it. Utopia does require work, it does require constant vigilance lest the more unsavory sides of our nature reassert themselves. DS9 explored this, now Picard does too, but with a lot more context to do it in.
Star Trek was always a reflection of and on contemporary matters. I would not want to see that discarded.


Quote
Yes, because plot in fiction doesn't work like reality. You can't just throw that bombshell and wait we just accept it at face value.

What? It's the pilot episode to a 10 episode series! Why do you want the pilot to explain everything to you, when there are still hours to come in which to do the explaining in?

Quote
More like, "I recognize all these lazy JJ type mystery boxes and how half of them will be forgotten, a quarter lazily explained away and I guess we'll have some good answers about the rest".

I guess the difference between us is that I am not prone to passing judgment on a series before it's over, or calling plot elements I can deduce bad just because I can deduce them.

Quote
Oh come on, I wasn't being literal, but I was very much being precise. Regardless of the reproduction methods, she (they) is (are) clearly written as his daughters.

And?

Quote
Your theory is that this is a research site within a borg cube wreck? Ok, that makes sense. The plot will revolve around salvaged borg tech.

It's not a theory. It's a plot point from the 2009 Star Trek.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on January 27, 2020, 03:42:31 pm
I agree with some of what you're saying, E, in that an exploration of Utopia's darker side could be an interesting idea. BUT, the execution thus far is lacking.

Spoiler:
I'm not convinced that all the plot elements are eventually going to lead somewhere. It feels very much like Discovery in that way. They're trying to establish da big stakes and it's just tiresome. There's only so many save the galaxy plot lines I can follow before I lose interest.

There was too much Discovery-style histrionics going on. The interaction between Daj (sp?) and Picard for instance. I get why Daj is emotional considering what she's been put through and the dilemma she's put under, but when she was killed I felt nothing and I ought to have felt something. Her death was supposed to be a big moment and it got nothing from me. I think if they had spent more time establishing the character over an episode or two it would've had much more impact. Hopefully I'll feel a bit more invested in the characters as the show goes on, but I'm not holding my breath.

The musical score is beautiful in places. It gets a bit over the top at times however, again mirroring Discovery's contrived melodrama.

There's that bit where Picard says, "I haven't been living, I've been waiting to die." It really contrasts heavily with The Inner Light, where he tells his daughter to 'live in the now, now is all we have'. I don't mind the character being put through his paces and developing in unexpected ways, but this to me feels like a step backwards.

EDIT: If those Romulan guys were trying to kidnap Daj then why couldn't they just beam her out? Bit of fridge logic there.

I think it's perfectly fair to judge the first episode. At the very least, it's the first chapter for yet another overarching story line, thus what is established here has much more bearing on how the season will play out.

I don't hate this show, there's a few things to like, but I'm so jaded with the franchise now that I honestly think Star Trek just needs to be put to rest. It's like a pet I love too much to see suffer any longer. Just put it down. Let it die with what dignity it has left.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: BlueFlames on January 27, 2020, 10:29:19 pm
I don't hate this show, there's a few things to like, but I'm so jaded with the franchise now that I honestly think Star Trek just needs to be put to rest. It's like a pet I love too much to see suffer any longer. Just put it down. Let it die with what dignity it has left.

You can stop watching any time you like.  Nobody's going to put you into the Clockwork Orange chair and make you watch any Trek beyond the series/films you're nostalgic for.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 28, 2020, 12:48:55 am
Picard, is.... Oooooooooooooold.


I like his Irish (????) housekeeper, as it shows a leap forward since spock paved the way for alien / human blah blah.


Number one should've been a pastoral dog though   :o

Title: Re: Picard
Post by: theperfectdrugsk on January 28, 2020, 05:30:28 am
Patrick Stewart loves pitbulls though, and therefore Picard loves pitbulls.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: karajorma on January 29, 2020, 08:55:48 am
I'm reserving judgement. There were signs of mystery boxes being presented to us, and after the flaming turd on the doorstep that was Discovery, I'm pretty wary of those. I liked most of what I saw.

I don't hate this show, there's a few things to like, but I'm so jaded with the franchise now that I honestly think Star Trek just needs to be put to rest. It's like a pet I love too much to see suffer any longer. Just put it down. Let it die with what dignity it has left.

You can stop watching any time you like.  Nobody's going to put you into the Clockwork Orange chair and make you watch any Trek beyond the series/films you're nostalgic for.

Try telling people that Star Wars Episodes 1-3 shouldn't count in a Star Wars discussion. If you stop watching you are basically out of the community because that **** still is considered canon. A lot of people would rather a franchise dies than having to watch the ****e in order to remain part of a community.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Turambar on January 29, 2020, 09:47:32 am
Try telling people that Star Wars Episodes 1-3 shouldn't count in a Star Wars discussion. If you stop watching you are basically out of the community because that **** still is considered canon.

I tell people that all the time.  People were surprised that I hadnt watched Clone Wars but they don't understand I have no use whatsoever for prequel-derived Star Wars.  It's generally understood that people who love Star Wars are the people who hate Star Wars the most.

A lot of people would rather a franchise dies than having to watch the ****e in order to remain part of a community.

I still hold out hope for a reboot.  There's too much good in Star Wars to just leave it how it is.  Now that we have watched the sequels and we know they haven't lived up to the old EU (instead of being closed-minded and assuming they wouldn't) the stage is set to just reset the whole thing.




On actual topic, I didn't see anything in Picard that set off 'bad writing' alarm bells, but they mostly haven't gotten to space yet.  There is one continuity break with the comic prequel to 'new star trek' where B4 actually did eventually 'become' Data, and was captain of the Enterprise.  I can't tell them they did it wrong in person, but it does make me sad, because Data as captain of the Enterprise would have been pretty special.  That itself is a little odd because Romulans working with Borg technology actually was in that prequel comic.  I skipped the 'this season on Picard' preview because I like being surprised by things, so I don't have any real speculation on what's coming.  Since we know Hue and Seven of Nine are coming back, I'm guessing the synthetic life angle will feature heavily.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on January 30, 2020, 06:14:14 am
On actual topic, I didn't see anything in Picard that set off 'bad writing' alarm bells, but they mostly haven't gotten to space yet.  There is one continuity break with the comic prequel to 'new star trek' where B4 actually did eventually 'become' Data, and was captain of the Enterprise.  I can't tell them they did it wrong in person, but it does make me sad, because Data as captain of the Enterprise would have been pretty special.  That itself is a little odd because Romulans working with Borg technology actually was in that prequel comic.  I skipped the 'this season on Picard' preview because I like being surprised by things, so I don't have any real speculation on what's coming.  Since we know Hue and Seven of Nine are coming back, I'm guessing the synthetic life angle will feature heavily.

Star Trek, like Star Wars, has always operated on a "only the tv shows and films are canon, everything else is irrelevant" basis (and even there, ST was always very lax about enforcing canon or sticking to a "universe bible")
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 30, 2020, 06:22:44 am
Star wars TV shows inlcludes the 80s cartoon Droids I hope 👍👍
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Jethro Grey on January 30, 2020, 06:52:18 am
On actual topic, I didn't see anything in Picard that set off 'bad writing' alarm bells, but they mostly haven't gotten to space yet.  There is one continuity break with the comic prequel to 'new star trek' where B4 actually did eventually 'become' Data, and was captain of the Enterprise.  I can't tell them they did it wrong in person, but it does make me sad, because Data as captain of the Enterprise would have been pretty special.  That itself is a little odd because Romulans working with Borg technology actually was in that prequel comic.  I skipped the 'this season on Picard' preview because I like being surprised by things, so I don't have any real speculation on what's coming.  Since we know Hue and Seven of Nine are coming back, I'm guessing the synthetic life angle will feature heavily.

Star Trek, like Star Wars, has always operated on a "only the tv shows and films are canon, everything else is irrelevant" basis (and even there, ST was always very lax about enforcing canon or sticking to a "universe bible")


Hm, didn't George Lucas declare all of the EU Comics and books Canon roundabout 10-15 years ago?
I remember reading About it, a lot of 'fans' started a small riot because the EU stuff was for the most part Pretty bad back then (there are exceptions like Zahns trilogy) and contradicted the movies to some extend or gave stupid explanations to Events/myth in SW (even dumber then midichlorians).
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on January 30, 2020, 08:58:14 am
Star Wars had different levels of canon (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon#Canon_in_the_Holocron_continuity_database).

As I understood it, stuff from higher levels were to be considered canon by lower levels, but works outside the main movie & TV canon were kinda free to pick what they considered canon on their own level or from lower levels.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: BlueFlames on January 30, 2020, 09:56:37 am
Star wars TV shows inlcludes the 80s cartoon Droids I hope 👍👍

The Holiday Special is the highest level of Star Wars canon, and that which does not conform to it is to be stricken from the record.  More wookies.  More cocaine.

A lot of people would rather a franchise dies than having to watch the ****e in order to remain part of a community.

And those people can eat ****.  Seriously.

I tuned out while Abrams was helming the Star Trek films, and now I'm back for Discovery and Picard, and I'm glad the franchise wasn't killed off just because it was temporarily going in a direction I didn't care for.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on January 30, 2020, 11:56:50 am
The direction is basically the same, as far as I can tell: full blown TV soap drama over writing quality.

Episode 2 has some good scenes, I especially enjoyed the one between Picard and admiral Clancy, where the drama actually has a set up (last ep) and a good dramatical payoff, but the romulan "deep state" plot is so "bad guys within the system from the 90s shows" it hurts, even their overly machiavelian tones.

 Patrick has a great way of under-selling it, under-acting which works very well. I wished the rest of the cast would do the same, but they don't and just end up being like cardboard characters with no personality behind "act mischieviously".

Apart from Laris and Picard himself, I don't find myself caring about any other character in the show. And that's not a good sign.

And don't get me started on that particular plot point of Clancy going directly to Commodore Oh with that particular concern. It's beyond stupid, unless she was feigning it.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on January 31, 2020, 10:52:10 am
And don't get me started on that particular plot point of Clancy going directly to Commodore Oh with that particular concern. It's beyond stupid, unless she was feigning it.

I'm sorry, I find these objections of yours too funny to ignore. Yes, Starfleet's Chief of Naval Operations contacting the officer in charge of security to order her to follow up on something a former senior officer brought to her "just to be sure", really is "beyond stupid". No responsible official would ever do something like that in reality. It's completely unthinkable that something like that would ever happen, in fiction or reality.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on January 31, 2020, 11:08:07 am
well idk if I would relay a conspiracy theory about secret undercover romulan agents to a romulan person, but I guess she thought she was Vulcan. My mistake, I read her as her true self from the get go, and not her disguised self.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 31, 2020, 03:14:40 pm
Is her cover vulcan?  Her acting was pretty wooden/emotionless for a rommie.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on January 31, 2020, 03:17:26 pm
Is her cover vulcan?  Her acting was pretty wooden/emotionless for a rommie.

She was acting vulcan, her establishing shot had a decorative thingie on her desk that prominently displays the vulcan IDIC symbol....
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on January 31, 2020, 03:18:22 pm
I only caught the episode in passing.  Thanks for clarifying 👍👍

{lol @idic}
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on February 01, 2020, 03:20:24 am
Apparently CBS has posted the first episode of Picard on YouTube (https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/30/21115348/star-trek-picard-cbs-all-access-first-episode-free-watch-pilot) for a limited time. So, if you dont have All Access and want to check it out, you have til Feb 7 to watch it for free. Naturally it's region locked though urgh.

Episode 2 of Picard seen. Glad it explains some of the mysteries & fan complaints about the first episode.

Spoiler:
A few fans complained about the weird Starfleet HQ 'rooftop cleanup' job & leave Picard on his couch with no questions asked scene jump moment in ep 1 but now we see the Commodore reviewing the battle cleanup footage (questioning it's effectiveness) and discover this fascinating Starfleet conspiracy with secret Romulan sect plot. I remember people in the past getting so upset about the English writing in the Romulan Borg research post but there are a lots of humans there which explains that one.

We see that the Androids that destroyed Utopia planitia were 'hacked' presumably by this secret synthetic hating Romulan faction. And holy moly they actually acknowledged Picard's Irumodic syndrome that afflicted him around now in the alternate future seen in TNG finale All Good Things. I'm impressed with their attention to detail (regarding old Trek events), which makes me hope the writers haven't forgotten Lore & Lal after all.

The only real gaff I saw was Laris saying Romulans never had a cybernetic program which contradicts the awesome TNG S3 ep the defector where Admiral Jarok tells Data that he knows a number of Romulan cyberneticists that would love to get their hands on him. Although then again maybe its not a gaff as we saw Romulan experts pulling apart dead Borg. You cant really study Borgs without some good cyberneticists lol. Probably just more Romulan secrets lol.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: theperfectdrugsk on February 04, 2020, 01:45:46 pm
Hahahah. I watched these. As long as I think of it as pulpy sci-fi it's pretty enjoyable. All the the bad things folks have to say about it are absolutely true, but I'm not a hardcore enough Trek fan to be super upset by it (opposite of my feelings on that other scfi-fi franchise). It's fine. It's not good. It's not terrible. It's just fine. Definitely worth paying for the CBS All-Access that I definitely subscribed to. /s.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Det. Bullock on February 06, 2020, 04:47:52 pm
Saw the other two episodes and I think I sense the stench of pseudo-9/11 truther style plot, I hope they don't go with that.

On actual topic, I didn't see anything in Picard that set off 'bad writing' alarm bells, but they mostly haven't gotten to space yet.  There is one continuity break with the comic prequel to 'new star trek' where B4 actually did eventually 'become' Data, and was captain of the Enterprise.  I can't tell them they did it wrong in person, but it does make me sad, because Data as captain of the Enterprise would have been pretty special.  That itself is a little odd because Romulans working with Borg technology actually was in that prequel comic.  I skipped the 'this season on Picard' preview because I like being surprised by things, so I don't have any real speculation on what's coming.  Since we know Hue and Seven of Nine are coming back, I'm guessing the synthetic life angle will feature heavily.

Star Trek, like Star Wars, has always operated on a "only the tv shows and films are canon, everything else is irrelevant" basis (and even there, ST was always very lax about enforcing canon or sticking to a "universe bible")
Well, now Star Wars isn't like that anymore though but they manage by mostly keeping the stories small and only loosely related to the movies.


On actual topic, I didn't see anything in Picard that set off 'bad writing' alarm bells, but they mostly haven't gotten to space yet.  There is one continuity break with the comic prequel to 'new star trek' where B4 actually did eventually 'become' Data, and was captain of the Enterprise.  I can't tell them they did it wrong in person, but it does make me sad, because Data as captain of the Enterprise would have been pretty special.  That itself is a little odd because Romulans working with Borg technology actually was in that prequel comic.  I skipped the 'this season on Picard' preview because I like being surprised by things, so I don't have any real speculation on what's coming.  Since we know Hue and Seven of Nine are coming back, I'm guessing the synthetic life angle will feature heavily.

Star Trek, like Star Wars, has always operated on a "only the tv shows and films are canon, everything else is irrelevant" basis (and even there, ST was always very lax about enforcing canon or sticking to a "universe bible")


Hm, didn't George Lucas declare all of the EU Comics and books Canon roundabout 10-15 years ago?
I remember reading About it, a lot of 'fans' started a small riot because the EU stuff was for the most part Pretty bad back then (there are exceptions like Zahns trilogy) and contradicted the movies to some extend or gave stupid explanations to Events/myth in SW (even dumber then midichlorians).

Not really...?
I mean, I remember him saying he didn't care for those even if he sort of respected that people liked them, they had to convince him to keep the name "Coruscant" for the capital of the old Republic when he did the prequels.
Only now technically most stuff is canon but they are usually careful in not making it huge or galaxy-shattering (like, in the old EU you got an epIX-style plot every three novels) to avoid crossing into the movie stuff unless they are made as explicit tie-ins.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on February 08, 2020, 05:04:23 am
My thoughts on what's led to some peoples frustrations with ep 1 & ep2 (once again has spoilers):
Spoiler:
It's funny. Am involved in a number of Picard forum discussions around the net and I see some people complaining about too much exposition yet I see others complaining about being confused due to not enough info lol. Makes me think they probably should have just done Ep 1 & 2 together as a pilot movie (that would have avoided some of the anger about confusing things in ep1 that were explained in ep 2) then they could have had the big trailer at the end of the 2hrs showing that the adventure kicks off next episode. Instead we got a ep1 that confused people and an exciting trailer at the end of it that implied the adventure was about to begin when in reality the next ep was still farting around on earth lol. So yeah I reckon a combined double ep pilot would have pissed off/confused far less people.

Anyway I'm still enjoying the show but am still unsure as to whether I actually really really like it or not. Still need to see how story pans out lol.
Episode 3 seen: (spoiler alert)
Spoiler:
Not thrilled about how they continue to make Picard look slow, weak & frail. You watch him on talk shows and he zips around just fine lol! But I love the fact that in ep 3 it appears writers are trying to address one of those funny never explained issues from old trek.

When I was young it always annoyed me how in TNG supposedly a Borg who got his individuality somehow broke a friggin cube and caused a rebellion on it of sorts when assimilating individuals is what the Borg do lol. Voyager & FC ended up adding a lot of info on how the borg worked, how they connect, and made it pretty obvious that assimilating ex borgs (eg 7 of 9, the borg kids, locutus etc) back into the fold wasn't going to break anything lol, in fact they wanted them. Yes Hugh was a Borg test tube baby and not a previous individual unlike those others I mention but it shouldn't really matter HOW they became an individual when you're grabbing someone and pumping nanites into their blood and connecting them to the hive lol.

However it looks like the new trek writers are carving a story where in reality, Hugh went back to the Borg they reassimilated him no probs but then a few hours later on the trip back to delta they found a nice little yummy Romulan intelligence vessel on the way to assimilate, they start 'processing them' and then 'something' goes wrong (Romulan virus? weapon? racial nanite rejection like the Denobulans?). Hugh presumably wakes up and pops out of his alcove again thinking its somehow caused by him (hence why he later tells Picard in Descent that it was his fault), all the other borgs who don't know how to be individuals start goin nuts and they kick off a nice little rebellion which then at some point Lore arrives on the scene and takes control of them and they escape on the light cruiser which we see in Descent (small borg ships inside big borg ships is nothing new). In fact this new obvious Romulan ex-borg fears of Dahj's sister (ie synthetics) could very well be relating to trauma from what Lore did to many of them when he took over things which once again gives me hope Lore will somehow come into this new story at some point. Probably a long shot though haha..

Am I way off.. we shall see haha.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on February 08, 2020, 05:44:21 pm
I liked episode 3.

Spoiler:
There's an issue regarding the romulan secret killer squad on how ****ing incompetent they are. They failed three times their mission by now, an astounding number given how they are built up as this amazing mythical group of elite stuff, and then they botch an attack against people they should be sufficient informed about, have all the time to attack, they have the surprise factor, etc., etc.

By the third time, it should really start to make me mad, but then the scientist comes out from that door blasting the last romulan and I get it. Ok. It's an infiltration mission. The scientist is no scientist at all, she's someone else. This is still unresolved in my head, but it's the only way I will ever forgive these idiots' incompetence.

Then there's the ship captain, that I've seen complaints online about how he's just blatantly stolen from the Expanse. I laugh at that, I can see it, but come on.

I like the ship, I like his doctor, I liked the episode. Best one so far.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on February 21, 2020, 03:49:26 am
Episode 4 seen (belated).. WE'RE OFF!:

Spoiler:
Well things have finally taken off! Enjoying the fact we're back in space.. loved the look of the Romulan refugee colony (particularly in the flashback sequences) with the giant 'world tree' background, although in the opening planet shot I wish we'd seen the Enterprise E approaching (considering they made some interesting modifications to the D I'd be interested to see what they do with the E). Backstory of the Romulan Samurai dude & his history with Picard was interesting, although Picard now walking around with a Elf looking dude that slices off heads feels a bit weird lol, but no doubt they'll be some big fun action bits with him down the track (which will aggravate oldschool trek purists to no end I'm sure haha).

Enjoyed the space battle, sure enough it was a classic 22nd century Romulan Bird of Prey (nice tip of hat to old Trek), retrofitted for lawless system warlord related activities lol. Interesting to see all these different hologram crew member variants captain Chris has. 7 of 9 has arrived! Will be very interesting to see how much they delve into her past and backstory post Voyager return. Also the holodeck stuff explains why she's in Patrick's 'home' in the trailers. I know people were complaining/making fun of the Picard sword scene in the original trailer, but it was fine, they even made him took kinda tough before he did the expected 'I'm not fighting you/playing your games' thing. Although his comment about having bad knees annoyed me, I don't care if you're 95yrs old, it's 24th century, people aren't gonna have 'bad knees' lol (we're already getting into 3D printing/replicating joints & cartilage now so it's only a matter of time), would rather they just continue to try and hide any difficulties RL Patrick might have, although I still maintain he seems to zip around just fine in real life on talk shows and stuff though lol.

Anyway we're already off to another planet in the teaser for the next ep so things are definitely moving along now lol! Although I'm a little worried about all that silly dress up stuff.. I swear to god if the next ep is like the Casino planet sequence in Ryan Johnson's cr*ptastic Star Wars film and black eye patch gangsta Picard is throwing dice with cheesy overly excited cgi aliens I'm gonna throw my Tv lol.

Oh and I'm probably off the mark with the Lore theory previously posted.. sounds like they're going for something bigger.. harbinger of doom stuff lol!

Guess I better hurry up and watch Ep 5 now instead of reading comments as that's just asking for spoilers haha.

.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Jethro Grey on February 21, 2020, 04:15:27 am
Can someone post a Synopsis (basically a Tl;Dr ) in spoilertags pls?

Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on February 21, 2020, 09:06:46 am
That throat grabbing scene in the end of ep4 was so badly executed it made stop watching for a couple of minutes.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 21, 2020, 10:24:21 am
I spotted Aggies
Spoiler:
sinister twist
a mile off.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on February 22, 2020, 09:38:58 am
In more general Star Trek news:

Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on February 22, 2020, 04:40:55 pm
gotta love mikey, can't wait for his second instalment.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on February 23, 2020, 04:08:43 am
Yeah.. episode 5.. wow.. If people here disliked it you don't have to worry about me arguing with you on this one guys. As this episode broke me too, or more precisely it broke my enjoyment of the show. I didn't enjoy that at all. I thought maybe if I sleep on it I'd feel better but nope, today I'm even grumpier about it haha. Up until now I've only had little nitpicks and have really enjoyed show and have defended it when people have complained about it "not feeling like star trek" but there was next to nothing Star Trek feeling about Ep 5. Those people who complained about past eps not being star trek are gonna looooooove this one lol. I don't wanna walk away from a Star Trek episode feeling frustrated and miserable. When they played the exciting trailer for the next ep and all the cool Borg stuff at the end I didn't even give s***. I was like.. whatever. They're gonna have to work hard in the next few eps to undo the damage that one just did. I can only hope that they had to go that dark and callous to setup the audience to be brought back to the light and happy ending lol. But I can't help but think that if it turned me off that badly then all those people out there who's really not been that into the new show and were barely holding on will probably be like "stuff this!" and be done with it after seeing that ep lol.

Spoiler:
For starters the acting felt a bit weird and wooden in this ep. Picard & 7 scenes felt weird, felt more like the actors were catching up more than the characters haha. 7 felt a little too different and Patrick didn't feel very 'Picardy'. His french gangster over acting rouse was funny but just didn't feel like something Picard would do, felt like I was watching one of Patrick's stage plays lol. For a French born character his french accent was pretty bad haha!

Can't remember what forum I was talking in but there was a guy who was all annoyed about how upset Raffi was about loosing her security clearance lol, well he's gonna love this ep and it pretty much says she turned into a alco & drug addict and messed up her family after that incident lol. Messed up drug addicts and alcoholics on earth, I'm sure Gene would love that lol. But hey I'm sure she'll have her recovering addict redemption story a happy ending with her dr son at some point and people will wonder if they're watching an episode of Chicago Med & not Star Trek lol.

But lets get to the real jewel of the episode.. I liked Voyager a lot but its not my favourite old trek show, probably more 3rd fav behind TNG & DS9. So considering how much this ep annoyed me I feel bad for all the super Voyager fans out there. You're NOT in for a good time here guys, I REALLY do feel bad for you guys and say sorry. Pretty much straight off the bat poor old (now grown up) Borg kid Icheb is utterly and brutally tortured/dissected and then murdered. Obviously the former was by the 'bad guys' but the later was by his Borg mum 7 of 9! Yes that's right, die hard voyager fans who love 7 of 9 and have been waiting for her return will literally get to see her shoot her own adopted son in the first 20 seconds of seeing her lol. He does the whole "im too far gone, put me out of my misery" thing everyone's seen a million times and she obliges. Get f****** mate! I get it, he's probably missing a few vital cybernetic organs but if he bleeds out or dies on route so be it, but at least try to throw him over your shoulder and carry your sons ass out of there. I mean I'm sure she didn't exactly have a nice state of the art medical bay next door ready to go or a big starship to beam up to but still it.. just.. felt.. wrong. Oh and apparently she just left him there too giving the black market guys EXACTLY what they wanted anyway as the crime lord chick brags later in the ep about dissecting him. Wtf?????

But don't worry Voyager fans there's more character assassination coming for your enjoyment haha. 7 of 9 is definitely not the one you know anymore lol.. now she's PTSD Aragorn ranger'ing around the galaxy shooting lots of people vigilante style.. in fact I think they even call her a vigilante in one scene lol. You know all those boring episodes of Voyager where we got endless Janeway and 7 of 9 scenes (funny now considering how much the actors disliked each other) handcrafting her into a civilized 24th century human being? Well say goodbye to that folks cause now she's a messed up Bourbon drinking badass assassin for hire! She's helping those in need who can't help themselves and is more than happy to kill a few hundred people in the process if they get in her way *cue dramatic 80s action music* lol!

So what now then.. I mean in her final scene she lies to Picard, beams back down and offs the crime lord chick and then starts mowing down the place and it cuts away. The end! So that's answers the question of will she be a regular.. nope.. she's gooone. Maybe she'll come back later? Maybe she's return in a future season? Maybe they'll even be a nice happy ending redemption story for her down the track too (although that doesn't bring poor Icheb back does it lol)? Or maybe not lol and that'll be the end of her story and every time Voyager fans re-watch the old show they'll be like "oh look there's Icheb, when voyager gets home he joins starfleet and gets brutally tortured and murdered for spare parts.. and oh look there's 7 of 9, she's the one that kills him and leaves him there to be dissected for said parts lol, and spends the rest of her life miserable and shooting up half the galaxy in revenge." It's likethe new Star Wars films.. I don't enjoy seeing my favourite childhood characters being brutally murdered in front of me. Because now when I re-watch the original stuff I just see their cheap deaths. Data's death in Nemesis had a similar effect on me so that's why I was so happy about this show as it gave me hope that they'd "do a star trek 3" and find a way to resurrect him. But now I find myself wondering how many other beloved characters are gonna get killed or messed up on the road to that happy ending, assuming thats even what happens, we may not even get that lol.

Anyway sorry.. back to the slaughter.. Bruce maddox.. they found him.. and he was all a messed up stressed alcoholic too of course.. cause everyone's messed up these days.. aaaaaaand then he was dead. All he bloody did was tell them her name and that shes at the cube and next thing we know he's getting offed by his own girlfriend (20 or so years younger than him I might add, yeeeaaahhh way to go on office romance bro! pulling those youngers chicks aint easy bro.. high 5!) giving us our innocent clumsy girl is actually working for bad guys shock moment at the end of the episode.. fake gasp.. yeah.. like I said before I was already completely disconnected by that stage and just didn't even care.

Urgh.. end of rant. Breath Daniel.. Just breath... lol

Like I said.. they're gonna need to work hard to undo the damage this episode did. I think I'd rather rewatch most of the episodes in discovery season 1 than ever watch that episode again lol.

Everywhere I go so far I've seem pretty horrified responses to ep5. I've seen a couple of dudes say they loved ep5 though, I was like WAAAT lol.

Spoiler:
I will pay the episode one compliment though.. their attention to detail on past Trek events once again is impressive. Eg they acknowledged Picard's Borg past which I was worried they wouldn't. They mentioned Quark in the bar sequence. And the biggest one would be during the horrible Icheb torture surgery scene where the lady callously says "where's your cortical node buddy?" as shes ripping stuff out of him. In season 7 of Voyager Icheb risked his life and gave his to 7 of 9 when her failed and they realised she couldn't survive without one while he might, which of course he did.

Meanwhile some self appointed comedian just thew this hand grenade into a Voyager facebook group. I'm sure you can image how well that went down with them lol. Too soon? Yeah just a bit lol.

Rest In Pieces Picture (https://forums.civfanatics.com/attachments/87055574_10106833345418015_4552643283397902336_o-jpg.546962/)


.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on February 23, 2020, 04:49:14 am
I liked this episode. The only thing I have trouble believing is that Seven was unable to kill Icheb's murderers for 13 years.

But hey, I'm a weirdo in that I generally like all of the new Shows; I do still miss some of the storytelling foundations that TNG and DS9 were running on and I really, desperately would like to see a show that has more of a space navy kind of feel (and no, Orville does not scratch that itch for me), but I like these shows for what they are.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on February 24, 2020, 09:20:34 am
I'm somewhat envious of your positive wholesome-ish way of being fine with these shows, but regardless, I'm also weary of writers killing off and ruining past characters for drama sake and cool badass shots, "remember this character you loved to watch learn and grow and become whole? Here she is, absolutely a wreck, a total sci fi noir cliché of a person now, totally lost, a space John Wick if you will."

There is some plot that depends on the stupidity of everyone involved, some twists were obvious ever since they were set up, and that also rubs me the wrong way.

I'll defer judgement when this is finished.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on February 24, 2020, 01:07:40 pm
I'm somewhat envious of your positive wholesome-ish way of being fine with these shows, but regardless, I'm also weary of writers killing off and ruining past characters for drama sake and cool badass shots, "remember this character you loved to watch learn and grow and become whole? Here she is, absolutely a wreck, a total sci fi noir cliché of a person now, totally lost, a space John Wick if you will."

There is some plot that depends on the stupidity of everyone involved, some twists were obvious ever since they were set up, and that also rubs me the wrong way.

I'll defer judgement when this is finished.

One of the things I realized after binging on TVTropes for a couple years was that, basically, cliches aren't bad. Me being literate enough and aware enough of genre convention to recognize when a series is playing a trope straight isn't a fault in the show - it's just a thing that happens.

I am also somewhat weary of statements like "they ruined that character". Yes, in the context of Voyager (i.e. an ongoing, multi-year, 26-episode-per-season show famous for its liberal use of the reset button), a character turn like the one they gave Seven here would be disastrous - But that's not what ST: Picard is. It's a different paradigm for how shows are written; you can do things in a 10-episode miniseries that may not be getting renewed that you can't in a show that's designed to run for half a year at a time, every year, and basically indefinitely on repeats.
Taking Picard and Discovery as what they are, and judging them by how good they are at that and not by how hard they fail at being what I wanted them to be is only fair.
(As an aside: The Star Trek show that I want, a show that leans hard on exploring Starfleet as a quasi-military organization torn between its mission statements of being the exploratory arm of the Federation but also its defensive and offensive arms, a show that explores the Federation as a polity through the lens of being on a single starship that is often out of reach of higher authority similar to the classic naval novels of Patrick O'Brian, will never be made. It's too specific, too up its own arse when it comes to building on established lore.)

What I would really like the current Trek writers to realize is that they can rely on their audience some more. They do not need to brute-force exposition about the universe or the character backstories, we have wikis for that now.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on February 24, 2020, 01:54:21 pm
There's too much lenience on fanservice, and a tad of MCU / Star Wars guidelines, I do wonder if this is the first Star Trek show that kicked other shows' soundtracks to signal the arrival on set of a character (VOY's music when 7 of 9 appears). Picard is a tad too "Patrick Stewart-ish" and less "Picard-ish", especially when he feels he has the liberty for it. These are not complaints, merely observations.

(As an aside: The Star Trek show that I want, a show that leans hard on exploring Starfleet as a quasi-military organization torn between its mission statements of being the exploratory arm of the Federation but also its defensive and offensive arms, a show that explores the Federation as a polity through the lens of being on a single starship that is often out of reach of higher authority similar to the classic naval novels of Patrick O'Brian, will never be made. It's too specific, too up its own arse when it comes to building on established lore.)

Wait, I'm definitely confused here. I don't know O'Brian, so that has to be the cause of my confusion, but aren't you basically describing TNG here? Not that I dislike your idea of taking that thematic contradiction between "explorers" and "army" more seriously, I would actually want a show that would seriously question the relationship between the (deluded) mythology of "Exploration! Curiosity! Boldly!" etc. and the actual painful reality it hides of "Colonization! Exploitation! Empire!", but that's the Portuguese in me speaking. Around 95% of portuguese people still believe all that "Discoveries" bull**** where we went "boldly where no man had gone before!" and fail to see where the buck ended up going in that endeavour. We still talk positively about our "golden days", handwaving away all the blood and slavery we partaked in.

Such a show would be too self-destructive, and the wrath of the conservative fandom would eclipse the "Last Jedi" nonsense we got.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on February 24, 2020, 02:29:00 pm
Wait, I'm definitely confused here. I don't know O'Brian, so that has to be the cause of my confusion, but aren't you basically describing TNG here?

Not quite. TNG happened in an era where long-form storytelling on TV happened subtly; it was still very much a "monster of the week" show at its core, and what I want is definitely more heavily serialized with stronger season-spanning arcs and less static characterization. I want the characters to change as they interact with the universe; this is something that, on TNG, really couldn't happen.
If you want a good look at O'Brian, watch Master and Commander (which, IMHO at least, is the best Star Trek film ever made); it illustrates all the core concepts I laid out very well.

Quote
Not that I dislike your idea of taking that thematic contradiction between "explorers" and "army" more seriously, I would actually want a show that would seriously question the relationship between the (deluded) mythology of "Exploration! Curiosity! Boldly!" etc. and the actual painful reality it hides of "Colonization! Exploitation! Empire!", but that's the Portuguese in me speaking. Around 95% of portuguese people still believe all that "Discoveries" bull**** where we went "boldly where no man had gone before!" and fail to see where the buck ended up going in that endeavour. We still talk positively about our "golden days", handwaving away all the blood and slavery we partaked in.

Yep, some post-colonial examination of "to boldly go" is a good thing to do.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on February 27, 2020, 03:56:12 am
Ah ok, well I loved Master and Commander when it came out (I think I saw it at the theaters), but I barely remember it. Although as far as "Star Trek-y" it is, it's more in line with TWOK than anything else, isn't it?
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: The E on February 27, 2020, 04:28:54 am
Ah ok, well I loved Master and Commander when it came out (I think I saw it at the theaters), but I barely remember it. Although as far as "Star Trek-y" it is, it's more in line with TWOK than anything else, isn't it?

Yes, in that TWOK is probably the one film that is closest to treating the Enterprise as a ship in a naval setting. What makes M&C very close to my ideal Star Trek (as laid out above) is that it very explicitly sets up a conflict between Aubrey and Maturin over Aubrey's focus on the mission and Maturin's desire to explore nature. There's the dreaded interpersonal drama that people seem to dislike in modern Trek, yes, but it stems from a fundamental question of priorities here, of ideals vs reality, and that's a topic baked into the core of Star Trek as a setting that I feel has still room left to explore (it's also more interesting to me than TWOK's extended Moby Dick analogy).
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on February 27, 2020, 04:43:16 am
I see what you mean, but I do wonder if Trek needs more of that. I feel every ST show has had that kind of tension between mission and "discovery", I'm sure Peterson fans would call it a clash between the motherly side and the fatherly, etc., sigh, IOW, I'm already bored by the idea of it. (It would still be better than what we are being having lately though)

But to be fair to TWOK it's not just a Moby Dick thing, it's A Tale of Two Cities vs Moby Dick.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on March 20, 2020, 08:10:09 am
Probably noticed I haven't posted here since I blew up a bit over Ep5 haha (although I see you guys have kept things going on without me thankfully haha). I have kept watching the show though but was less invested in it to continue posting my episode round ups. I said after ep 5 that they'd really need some good eps to undo the damage that did, so...

Here's my thoughts on eps 6-9..
Spoiler:
They sort of did as Ep6 was really good. I love any story line that deals with Picard's trauma from the Borg, eg some my favourite powerful moments in classic Trek include Picard braking down in front of his brother at the chateau after Best of Both Worlds and Picard loosing it and smashing the ship glass case in First Contact. THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE! So that moment when he saw his own face as locutus and his reaction was cool. Seeing him on the cube and the way the ex-Bs reacted to him was interesting too. I'm glad Soji got activated as I was getting a bit over the innocent girl on the cube with her cool badass lying boyfriend storyline. The queens chamber was cool and I liked the nod of the head to Voyagers Sikarians and the Borg using their teleporter tech after assimilation.

Ep7 was enjoyable due to us getting some nice fan service and seeing some beloved characters again, but some of those annoying things started to creep back in again. Troy & Riker lost a child due to a reason that just seems so silly.. a disease that is only cured by taking stuff from an android brain.. give me a break.. and once again WHY DOES EVERY SINGLE FRIGGIN PERSON IN THIS SHOW HAVE TO BE MESSED UP FROM TRAUMA??? why can't anyone at all be okay lol. I'm sick to death of it. People loved Star Trek because it painted a picture of this near perfect Utopian human future where greed, money, racism, poverty, addiction and all the other nasty stuff was either eliminated or barely there and therefore was usually projected onto the alien races, this giving people hope for the future and some nice escapism from all the news that tell us we're gonna destroy ourselves. However these writers seem to be intent on bringing the misery of their own lives into Star Trek making it not really escapism at all, now its just what we see on the news and todays flawed humans but with spaceships lol. Don't get me wrong, I love my dystopian dark future shows too but as for Star Trek unless its an alternate universe than I dont like them screwing up the prime timeline and characters we know and love. and don't even get me started on the smoking addiction BS.. I'll just leave this here:

Also clearly Kurtzman seems to have forgot Inner Light where Picard raised an entire family but oh now apparently now he knows nothing about teenagers so he gets schooled by Riker & Troi for it.. Urgh..

Oh and surprise surprise another old character has bought it.. but that's okay.. we've got these great new ones to replace them so who cares lol. The fact I just struggle to remember the names of the new characters really does show how great they are lol. RIP Hugh. Also wtf.. she's a evil lady pretty much killing everyone but she won't touch Hugh because he's a federation citizen. He helped Picard escape but she still has to hear him say that he's not on her side before she can kill him.. ugh come on..

Anyway on to episode 8 and its okay I guess.. but still some annoying stuff.. our Vulcan commodore is apparently half Romulan which I guess explain the sunglasses gaffe a few episodes back as vulcans don't need them, although clearly she has retained her Vulcan ability to mind meld as I've never seen a Romulan do that. The mind meld is what made Dr Death kill her lover and act all weird for ages.. but now she's fine and won't hurt anyone cause she and Soji talked about mucus lol. We see the source of the vision is from an alien artifact and we get further explanation on the main plot. Action Jackson 7 of 9 returns and kicks some more ass. She takes control of the cube which was kind of cool although apparently she doesn't have control of the airlocks and the Romulans do lol, plus apparently the Romulans can just stand there on a balcony and watch just fine (It'd like Pike watching the torpedo explode 2 meters away via a glass window all over again, or Spock watching Vulcan go into a black hole on a another planet with a thick cloudy sky lol). And somehow Borg are useless in a vacuum despite us seeing them operate in space just fine in First Contact although I guess it was more the venting that got them as Voyager vented a few Borg into space back in the day too. Anyway not much else to say about this ep as it was mostly plot moving and setup for final eps.

So I've just done Ep9.. yeah hmm.. I feel like I should have felt more and connected more with this episode but just didn't.. back in my first comments I predicted that there was someone else behind these androids and it wasn't just Bruce Maddox and I was right. I was just wrong about who it was lol. I predicted Lore, but it turns out there's another generation of Soong, another brother of sorts to Data. When Dr Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr Jr whatever (remember there was the one in the eugenics wars ep of Enterpise too haha) walked out the music didn't seem to change much, it was very fast, and he just took off into dialogue straight away.. the whole delivery felt wrong.. I should have been like WOOOOOWWW.. but instead I was like.. oh.. okay.. cool I guess.. as it was nice to see Brent back.

Then something really really stupid happened.. Soji's mum or whatever you wanna call her, an earlier android model and seemingly some sort of leader there has somehow taught herself to do Vulcan mind melds.. because you know she likes Vulcans n stuff. Yes I kid you not.. an android that just magically learned telepathy because she likes the aliens that can do them. Are you freakin kidding me???.. stupid f****** bloody writers.. omg!! I mean Data did a vulcan neck pinch in TNG but that was a nerve pinch that presumably just requires a lot of strength hence why no one else ever did it. But android learning an alien races telepathy as a hobby???.. arrggghhhhh

Anyway she melds and sees the vision.. now she's corrupted by it too.. possibly kills that chick and frees (all sexually lol) Nerek or whatever the hell his name is and is gonna 'ET call home' and bring an android alien invasion exterminate everyone thing to stop the massive Romulan warbird extermination fleet that is somehow just out there despite the fact that most of the romulan survivors seem to be refugees living in squalor camps and no one knew about the Zhat Vash. But hey maybe its the surviving romulan fleet being manipulated by the Zhat Vash. I don't know.. we see the commodore has apparently left her rather important Federation position and is now commanding an entire romulan fleet.. bit of a jump but yeah sure.. whatever..

Oh and how could I forget that they somehow grew giant flowers that can fly through space and drag down spaceships and borg cubes.. giant flowers bigger than cities and that fly into space.. grown by maddox in his lab.. while one of his android daughters was busy taking up Vulcan telepathy as a hobby..

It really is just like the new star wars films.. why do writers these days treat us with no respect and think that we're so stupid that we'll follow anything.. sometimes its so dark you think it's not suitable for children (eg Icheb eyeball rip) then other times like this where we're expected to take giant leaps of faith over plot holes like a child would..

Thanks to covid-19 the Melbourne Formula 1 race was cancelled and in the giant slots that were allocated to what would have been the tv race coverage they filled with old episodes of TNG, VOY and even some TOS.. so I thought why not and sat there watching them.. and my god.. the universe.. and the writing.. there's just so much more intelligence behind them..

We live in an age where people that grew up watching these scifi shows and films is now old enough to get into hollywood and create their own spin offs, remakes and sequels to these great old shows. All they had to do was bring back the same quality of writing and acting and we'd be living in a golden age. However instead of feeling like I'm watching actual sequels I just feel like I'm just watching fanboy films/eps that are filmed on hollywood sets with big budgets instead of Dad's shed with some toilet paper rolls, mops and bed sheets for props lol.

Anyway.. I seemed to be more relieved that there's one episode to go in Picard than I am excited to see what happens next with the story. Sort of just want it to be over so I can move on again. I didn't even feel that way about Disco (well maybe a bit in season 1 lol but not season 2). To feel that way about a Star Trek show really sucks.. especially as normally I'm the super tolerant scifi obsessed guy defending stuff like this to the haters.. yet here I am becoming one.. but a couple of threads keep my interest still to see this thing out and probably watch future seasons too lol.

Dr death is helping Dr Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr  Jr whatever with that Golum so maybe it will be Data. I just hope I.. feel something.. when he appears cause that's meant to be the pay off for all this surely lol.. Apparently this neuron thread thing stuff talked about back in ep2 means some of data's memories can be restored but some memories would not really be him would it. So it makes me think how on earth can these writers really bring him (the full Data we know and love) back and can they do it in a way that isn't stupid lol. Which then makes me think maybe they won't bring him back and this is as good as it gets lol.. but hey todays writers love recycling old stories and rearranging them (ST Into Darkness lol) so if Soji's evil mum can mind meld then why not just do a Star Trek 3 and mind meld Data backed up memories out of B4 and into a new body.. I might even tolerate that nonsense if it leads to datas return lol.. but plugging in a usb cable like Data did in Nemesis seems like a better way haha.. hell maybe that's what they're gonna do haha.. i dunno lol..

Will also be interesting to see how Picards brain disorder is dealt with too.

Oh and one of my mates is convinced that Picard is an android because you see him being 'put together' in the show's intro, so he's counting down to the 'big reveal' lol. We all laughed at him but hell with this show any crazy cr*p is possible haha. So I dunno about that theory but the convo between Dr death and Dr Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr Jr whatever about transferring human consciousness across into androids (like the actual Dr Soong already did with Data's mother, although the writers probably don't remember that lol) being close plants an interesting seed on this subject that I wonder what it will lead to (otherwise why did that scene happen?). Eg Picard is prob not an (failing) android now but maybe they'll stick him into one before his poor human brain gives out haha.

Either way.. weeks ago I was telling you guys that I liked the show but that I was still needing to see more to really decide. Well now I've seen like 90% of the show and I can say I don't love it, I don't hate it, it has bits I like, it has bits that annoy me, so I'm just somewhere in between all that sticking with it to see what happens with Data and & Picard.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: BlueFlames on March 26, 2020, 10:44:05 am
The series doesn't take the best course to get there, but it arrives at a good place in the season finale.

I like that the last several episodes are about the agency of the synths and that the direction of the season climax is, in the end, placed in their hands.

Also, to step back to the previous episode:  Jean Luc Picard remains the most English frenchman in both history and fiction.  That's always been the case, but his "I'm dying; I know it; now shut up about it," non-speech was just there to cement it.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 27, 2020, 07:20:26 am
It's an awful show.  I've been watching from the start and aside from the production quality the whole thing is very very wooden.  It's not Patrick Stewart fault.

Just silly things like the borg dying after being blown into space yet surviving in vacuum in every other series or film they appear in. 

Obligatory space sword elf.

Krios is very one dimensional too.  The doc is just awful too, and don't get me started on the glaringly obvious robo nemesis personified in the anti-sascha.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: BlueFlames on March 27, 2020, 10:47:15 am
I have my problems with the series.  Chiefly, Raphi's 9/11 Mars Attack trutherism and its eventual vindication felt like downright irresponsible writing and made some of the episodes in the middle of the series a very tough watch.

But in the end, the broader themes came together nicely.  It's a series about agency:  About a privileged majority giving a downtrodden minority room to exercise their own agency.  Or, if you prefer, about a parent recognizing the growth of their children, and trusting them to make their own decisions.  It's good stuff, and it was executed well--made sufficiently explicit for the audience to see it, without flogging you over the head like some of the "preachy" episodes of past Star Trek series.

And I liked the cast too.  The characters--new and old--had their arcs woven together well (again, with the exception of Raphi's conspiracy theory).  Seeing the cast assembled on the bridge had me itching to see the next season and what the next adventure for this crew might be.

When I see complaints about Elond's sword or (especially) continuity errors, it just feels like missing the forest for the trees.  If that kind of trivial **** can ruin your enjoyment of a series, that might be a you-problem.

Just silly things like the borg dying after being blown into space yet surviving in vacuum in every other series or film they appear in. 

Did you hate First Contact because Worf got beamed off the Defiant through the Enterprise's shields?  Not being able to beam through a ship's shields is an oft-repeated rule of the Star Trek universe.  Did that continuity error just set you in a foul mood for the rest of the film--every time Worf was on-screen and not dead on the bridge of the Defiant?

Sometimes there's continuity problems in Star Trek.  Hell, they're almost obligatory.  Let it go.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: General Battuta on March 27, 2020, 11:01:28 am
I have my problems with the series.  Chiefly, Raphi's 9/11 Mars Attack trutherism and its eventual vindication felt like downright irresponsible writing and made some of the episodes in the middle of the series a very tough watch.

You probably knew this already but Alex Kurtzman (the showrunner's) long-time writing partner Orci is a vocal truther. Thus Star Trek Into Darkness and, maybe, this?
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: BlueFlames on March 27, 2020, 11:07:46 am
Ick.

Hopefully they tone that **** down for season two.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: -Joshua- on March 27, 2020, 12:05:04 pm
https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2013/09/11/how-star-trek-into-darkness-is-a-crypto-truther-conspiracy-movie
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 27, 2020, 02:49:13 pm
I have my problems with the series.  Chiefly, Raphi's 9/11 Mars Attack trutherism and its eventual vindication felt like downright irresponsible writing and made some of the episodes in the middle of the series a very tough watch.

But in the end, the broader themes came together nicely.  It's a series about agency:  About a privileged majority giving a downtrodden minority room to exercise their own agency.  Or, if you prefer, about a parent recognizing the growth of their children, and trusting them to make their own decisions.  It's good stuff, and it was executed well--made sufficiently explicit for the audience to see it, without flogging you over the head like some of the "preachy" episodes of past Star Trek series.

And I liked the cast too.  The characters--new and old--had their arcs woven together well (again, with the exception of Raphi's conspiracy theory).  Seeing the cast assembled on the bridge had me itching to see the next season and what the next adventure for this crew might be.

When I see complaints about Elond's sword or (especially) continuity errors, it just feels like missing the forest for the trees.  If that kind of trivial **** can ruin your enjoyment of a series, that might be a you-problem.

Just silly things like the borg dying after being blown into space yet surviving in vacuum in every other series or film they appear in. 

Did you hate First Contact because Worf got beamed off the Defiant through the Enterprise's shields?  Not being able to beam through a ship's shields is an oft-repeated rule of the Star Trek universe.  Did that continuity error just set you in a foul mood for the rest of the film--every time Worf was on-screen and not dead on the bridge of the Defiant?

Sometimes there's continuity problems in Star Trek.  Hell, they're almost obligatory.  Let it go.

I'm allowed to not like what I don't like 😜
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Det. Bullock on March 27, 2020, 08:21:52 pm
I have my problems with the series.  Chiefly, Raphi's 9/11 Mars Attack trutherism and its eventual vindication felt like downright irresponsible writing and made some of the episodes in the middle of the series a very tough watch.

You probably knew this already but Alex Kurtzman (the showrunner's) long-time writing partner Orci is a vocal truther. Thus Star Trek Into Darkness and, maybe, this?

I remember when Lindsay Ellis in one of her videos marked him as "hack and 9/11 truther". Thank goodness I always take care to drink far away from the keyboard.
And yes, this 9/11 thing is getting on my nerves too, they took the most coward approach to almost every single theme in Discovery and then they put in truther bull****?
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on April 03, 2020, 07:55:19 am
Final Episode 10 rant..

Spoiler:
Kinda glad its all over as in these last few weeks it felt like I was just waiting for them to find new ways to disappoint me lol. Now that it's done I don't have to worry about it lol.

So.. that last episode.. once again we've got some good things but mostly things that annoyed me lol..

I enjoyed the Picard noble sacrifice to save Soji (from her fears) scene.. tugged on the old heart strings a bit so well done there. Was also nice to see Picard flying a ship and being himself a bit more instead of the usual helpless old man in the back seat stuff. Liked the Picard maneuver (the ship one not the shirt one lol) reference too..

Sure enough my prediction of Picard becoming an android, or more accurately an organic synthetic came true. Felt a bit weird though as lets face it, it's kinda like cloning in that they made an electronic copy of his mind meaning the Picard we know and love has just actually died lol. Not really sure how to feel about that other than it sucks a bit.

People who may remember my earlier posts here will know that my hope was that this series was all about resurrecting Data and undoing the damage Nemesis did. I was almost willing to accept all the other BS that had happened if that was the target. So I really hoped the golum would be for him and not a quick Picard resurrection. So when Picard bought it I knew what was coming...

But then he woke up in the simulation and there was data saying exactly what I had posted in previous posts that I'd hoped would happen. They combined those residual Data memories Maddox had generated for his synths with B4's backup of Data's brain to make a pretty much complete resurrected Data (from the moment he did the transfer a day or so before his death in Nemesis). I was so excited! The moment I'd been waiting for! But of course this is a Michael Chabon show and he wants to make Star Trek and its fans as miserable as possible lol so naturally a matter of seconds later this amazing resurrection that so many of us had dreamed of happening for almost 20 damn years was shown to be nothing more than a tease because Data asks to die. Picard then mercy kills him just like 7 of 9 mercy killed Icheb. Michael watched his father suffer & die slowly on life support (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/18/the-final-frontier) while writing these new shows which is a horrible thing to go through (I dread having to go through something like that with my mother) and unfortunately all this stuff is probably him creatively dealing with that pain but unfortunately he's dealing with it using the Star Trek universe and characters loved by millions people. I get it, they wanted to give a data 'beautiful death' instead of the cheap one he got in Nemesis hence why I've seen people out there touched and happy with it. But as someone who pretty much was dying (pun not intended lol) to watch this series believing it was all gonna be about Data's resurrection I feel cheated. To tease him being back like that only to take him away just makes me wanna hop over to Michael's twitter and throw some 4 letter words his way (I won't though cause I don't wanna be a d*ck lol). Judging by (https://variety.com/2020/tv/features/michael-chabon-star-trek-picard-1203544717/) this article he wouldn't care anyway[/url] and for those excited that he's not the main guy behind season 2 well guess what, that article confirms he's written 2 eps and also brainstormed the other 8 for season 2.. so yeah expect more attempts to make us miserable (if we watch) in the future lol.

I wish they could have brought Data back.. yes I'm not stupid.. I know Brent doesn't exactly look like Data anymore hence the mountain of makeup and weird camera angles of him sitting or standing to hide his belly making it half impossible to have him around all the time. However they could have brought him back and then have him go back to starfleet or earth or go on his own ventures or something. You know just send him off into the galaxy with happy "All Good Things" like moment to finish his ark. Let us fans think of him living on forever going on adventures and continuing his question to evolve. Let that be the last thing we see of him.. not him dying AGAIN. The face growing old (doesn't make any sense unless they programmed the event) and a virtual duplicate Picard in the red uniform standing over him, even though Picard had been extracted already (another copy lol??) all painted to give a beautiful death triggering an emotional response that makes some forget the weirdness and lack of science and sense behind it lol. However there's nothing stopping them from resurrecting Data again so screw you Michael I'm going to choose to believe that Dr Soon Jr Jr Jr Jr being the sneaky guy he is backed up another copy of Data's mind, waited for Picard to leave then stuck Data in another golum and now he's out there living happily every after lol. Picard's "my gain is your loss line" implies Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr can't make another golum but get stuffed.. Maddox did the brains and Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr did the bodies, nothing stopping him from making more lol.

Anyway back to Picard's death and resurrection wtf was with them rush skipping over most of the casts reaction to him being back again. Once again Michael's story telling has us in pain watching everyone cry for like 10 damn minutes and then doesn't bother to cover everyone seeing him alive again except for Dr Death, Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr and Soji. Literally straight back on the ship like nothing happened lol.

Speaking of that final ship scene I've seen some people confusingly posting "are Raffi and 7 of 9 lovers?" well that 2nd article I linked I linked to above has Michael confirming it.. action jackson 7 of 9 had a thing with that crime lord chick she vaporized and she's got a thing with Raffi or whatever her name is (I just cannot remember these new cast member names haha), so expect more of the stuff we've seen from Discovery in Picard season 2 (poor Chakotay haha). I'll leave that for others to debate the merits of all that as it doesn't really bother me, other than to say I find their 'all or nothing' approach a bit weird as does this mean the other shows coming (ST Section 31, ST Pike, ST Lower Decks) will do the same?

Oh and speaking of 7 of 9.. how did the Romulan evil chick get back on the cube to fight 7 of 9??? she left the cube with the fleet several eps ago didn't she???

I saw some article a few days ago which I can't seem to find now sorry but it talked about plans for a crossover series that would involve casts members from all the different new trek shows.. pretty much the marvel avengers of new star trek lol. I really don't know how to feel about that lol. I mean if this had been 30 years ago and we had Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway and Archer and other cast members all in one big crossover event series that would have been epic (hell I think there's a popular Novel series out there that sort of did that isn't here?) but massive crossover series with new trek people.. I'm a bit meh.. but hey ya never know lol.

Anyway back to the Picard finale.. the whole fleet stand off didn't really excite me much at all (other than Picards noble sacrifice I mentioned earlier).. we saw those damn space flowers you saw me moaning about last time again haha, then they used that 'magical plot hole device' to generate duplicate Dr death faces and then the ships all with warp core illusions. Come on man this a advanced Romulan fleet, not those idiot half primitive Kazon in the Delta quadrant that fell for voyagers holograms but anyway.. this all lead to a rather amazing sequence where the evil commodore half Vulcan chick just kept preparing to fire and retargeting.. I think after the 5th or 6th time I actually yelled out (no BS I kid you not) at the TV "STOP PREPARING AND JUST FIRE THE F******** WEAPONS AT SOMETHING ALREADY!!!" hahahaha.

Then Riker shows up to give us some fan service. Kinda cool but once again just like with Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr 's reveal in the prev episode the delivery just.. felt.. wrong! Urgh. I mean I know he said he's on the active service list still but he's been retired for years and they just give him command of a huge fleet right off the bat, no admirals needed lol? They wouldn't even give Picard a crappy old science vessel but they'll give Riker a friggin fleet lol! I expected the admiral who swears a lot to be in charge of it to be honest. But hey's there's some fan service to be given here and I guess I should be happy Michael didn't try to kill him off too lol! I've seen people on the internet making fun of the obvious CGI background behind him too.. I can see why, as it doesn't look any better than the ones in the fan film Star Wreck (https://youtu.be/p8oWyU-YWDQ?t=45), a movie made by a bunch of Finnish nerds in their bedrooms 20years ago lol (great film though haha). If we're wrong and that's a redressed discovery set or something then boy did they mess that up as it really looks fake lol.

And what the hell was going on with all the ships????? The entire romulan fleet was made out of 1 ship design plus a special capital command ship. These guys lost their homeworld and the vast majority of their population yet apparently they can afford to throw out all their old ships (except for that 22nd century Rom ship in ep 4 lol) and have a brand spanking new fleet lol. I mean this was the PERFECT opportunity to give more fan service and fill the fleet with old Valdors and D'deridex's.

Copy and paste a lot of that for Riker's fleet too. He warped in with 200 friggin ships that look the same.. what the hell!! When I think back to the giant federation fleets used in the Dominion war that were filled with old ships.. by then excelsiors would have been about 90 years old (at least the design anyway) and reliants and saratogas would have been over 110 years old. So why not stick some old galaxys, sovereigns and defiants in this fleet??

For a show that has a budget the old trek shows could only dream of I'm amazed that they literally built 2 giant fleets of the same ships using copy & paste.. Also was it just me or did the ships also look rather fake CGI looking.. they must have accidentally blown the budget out and run out of money.. that has to the be the reason for calling it in surely? The CGI DS9 fleets looked better than this for christ sake. This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnLuc0llZo0) pretty much confirms it lol.

Anyway then he just left... a dying Picard is like "oh yeah I can handle it from here Will".. and Wills like "sure bro.. I'll take all these ships we had to pull from vital missions and just turn around after being here for all 5 minutes" lol. If I was the Vulcan commodore chick I would have said "hey the federation is abandoning the planet again lets turn around and blow sh*t up before they come back again.. EVERYONE PREPARE TO FIRE SOME MORE!!!" lol.. Someone that obsessed aint gonna care about the treaty of Algeron. Also she's responsible for the deaths of everyone on Mars and most of the Romulan homeworld (by destroying the rescue fleet).. but nah its cool you can fly off lol.

Oh well.. I could pick at a bunch of other things but I'll stop complaining haha.. time to move on! I'll probably still cop the hater title from some people who loved it but like I said before normally I love all scifi and am super tolerant and am often the one taking on the haters lol but this show (much like the new main star wars films) just rubbed me the wrong way from ep5 onwards.. I guess its because these characters that I grew up with mean a lot to me and I don't like seeing them having to run the Michael Chabon gantlet of death and misery.

At this stage I now actually prefer Discovery over Picard. Probably because they're not screwing with my beloved childhood characters as much haha which means I can tolerate more plot and technology gaffes. I thought they handled Spock and Pike pretty well in s2 and it really made the show so much better having them and the Enterprise there. So I worry a bit about Disco s3 as they won't have those improvements anymore.. however I'm super excited about the ST Pike show. At least they listened to the fans on that one!
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 03, 2020, 10:59:04 am
Could see any hidden twists a mile off, and (spoilers be damned) they managed to clone data's personality and save it on a server?
Did not like any of it,  Riker had no place in charge of any force that was rallied and deployed "in the nick of time" did not like one sausage of the entire Butcher shop ...... Except 7s confirmed lesbianism... Justified all teenage thoughts.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: rubixcube on April 13, 2020, 02:34:06 pm
Unmitigated disaster...
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Blake00 on July 05, 2020, 09:42:46 am
Unmitigated disaster...

very good haha!

I thought Discovery season 1 was okay but there were many things that annoyed me. Season 2 was a huge improvement for me however that was mainly due to the additional cast members playing Pike, Spock and Number One on the enterprise, there was still some silly stuff (lazy writing plot hole things as usual) that annoyed me though. Season 3 loses those great additions so I fear it'll disappoint me again lol. My love of the Disco season 2 Enterprise content of course also leaves me super excited for Star Trek Strange New Worlds (aka the Star Trek Pike show fans demanded heh) as they've said it will be a more traditional episodic Star Trek adventure show on the Enterprise! So hopefully they can't screw that up too much... although there's some rumour (possibly BS) out there that it's also going to have a young bisexual Kirk running about in the show so read into that what you will lol!!

Back to good old Picard.. I've decided I'm not going to call it that anymore now. To me this show shall now be known as 'Patrick Stewart Goes To Space' (PSGTS for short) as there really isn't much Star Trek or Picard in it lol!!! I've been waiting for the 'Critical Drinker' to review PSGTS as I've become an fan of his after seeing his Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker reviews on those cluster****s. Sure enough in the video below you can see he hates it and he talks about Picard himself being rather useless just like I talked about in my episode reviews earlier in this thread. Yes I know hating on stuff is kind of his gimmick haha but he makes good points that match a lot of my previously posted thoughts.

This is Patrick Stewart Goes To Space!

And this is Star Trek Picard baby!!

.
Title: Re: Picard
Post by: Luis Dias on July 06, 2020, 04:23:19 am
Despite all its flaws, and I do recognize them all, I kinda liked it more than I expected. The whole red planet with 2 moons arc was waaay more Star Trekky than I ever even dreamed about. Silly and fan-servicy all around, camp and stuff, it's fine.

Guys, it's fine. It's just fine.

TNG was a complete revolution, now it's all bathed in pure nostalgia, and has been so since that last episode of Enterprise.