Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: darkdaej on August 07, 2019, 12:27:25 am
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I've been replaying FS1 and 2 quite a bit since I've reinstalled FSO last week and made my "grand" comeback on this forum. When exposed to the lore once again, I began noticing things I hadn't seen back in the day and I think I've uncovered a potential plot thread for what FS3 might have led do - or at least something which :v-old: had in mind when creating the games.
I believe that Vasudan Emperor Khonsu II planned to incorporate the Terrans into the Vasudan Imperium as a vassal species. How did I come to this conclusion; you might ask? Of course, several elements throughout FS2 seem to hint towards that being the case.
Of course, you may say the Vasudans genuinely wanted to ally with the Terrans…and the everyday Vasudan citizen might agree with the publicly stated goals of the Vasudan government towards the Terrans…but I believe it’s all a political game designed to slowly erode Terran political clout in the galaxy. Here’s why I believe this is the case:
1: The structure of the GTVA’s government.
As we know, the Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance is made up of three branches: The GTVA Security Council, which seems to be the governmental branch of the military/judiciary, the General Assembly, what seems to be an elected body of representatives representing the civilian governments of both races…and the Vasudan Imperium, basically meaning Khonsu II and his aides having control of an entire branch of government.
Now if the General Assembly was only made up of Terran representatives and did not represent Vasudans at all, we could say that we have equal representation. One Terran Branch, one Vasudan branch and one united military/judicial branch.
However, the lore omits to mention the makeup of the General Assembly and what information we have never mentions it’s a human-only body. Now if I’m right and the GA is made up of representatives of both races, this gives Vasudans far more power than the Terrans in how government is run because not only to they have some level of control of the civilian government, Khonsu himself has his own branch. While this is speculation, it’s likely that he has Veto power over the GA’s policy proposals.
2: The GTA after the Great War/Hades Rebellion
Canon states that the GTA was collapsing into a bunch of regional blocs following the events of FS1/Silent Threat. While some may argue that this was a golden opportunity for Vasudans to finish off the Terrans who were increasingly disorganized, they simply had no ability to do so. The Vasudans had lost their homeworld and likely the lion’s share of their industrial production. Even if Khonsu wanted to crush the Terrans, it was impossible. However using their governmental crisis under the guise of a long-term alliance and taking the opportunity to form a unified government for both species (favouring the Vasudans who did the leg work uniting the Terran factions), over time it would become possible to undermine Terran authority and allow Khonsu II to effectively rule over them.
3: The Civil War.
While Vasudans were the initial victims of the NTF’s insurgency as Bosch secured Ancient archeological sites, the brunt of the fighting was done by Terrans themselves – at least from what we could see during the end of the civil war. The Vasudans were apparently content to (mostly)sit on the sidelines while two human factions pummeled each other. Regardless of how you see it, this can only be good for Khonsu’s plans to subjugate Terrans. While Terrans lose ships and manpower, Vasudans can keep their numbers strong, maybe even surpassing the Terrans in overall number of warships.
4: The Second Shivan Incursion
This was purely a matter of “luck”, but FS2’s story does end, once again, with the Vasudans in a position of power. The Shivans are held back, Terrans lost one of (if not the most) populated colony they had along with dozens of warships, hundreds of fighter craft and hundreds of thousands of people. Vasudans? Oh, they maybe lost a Mentu or Sobek here and there, but where they might have gotten away from the Shivans with a bloody nose, the Terrans were left in Intensive Care…
All in all, I have a feeling that a Vasudan takeover was in the cards for a FS2 sequel/expansion.
Any thoughts? Counter-arguments? I’d love to hear what you have to say 😊
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First, mind if I take some of it for the background materials on the NTF in The Lost Generation - Ashcroft (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=92732.0), up to verbatim quotes? I have some in-universe conspiracy theories already in play but since one of the most insidious aspects of consipracy theories is that they can be quite à la carte, more is always better :D
Now on to the objections:
1) Your analogy of the GTVA to a national government is flawed. It actually mirrors the structure of the UN, the main bodies of which are the General Assembly (where each UN member state has a seat and a vote) and the Security Council (which has a number of permanent and temporary members; with the permanent members holding a veto power against any resoultion brought before the body).
2) There is no evidence what the Vasudan Imperium actually is - but considering that there are able paralells between the PVN and the popular conception of the Japanse Naval forces in WW2, it is not beyond possibility that the Vasudan Imperium simply is meant to be something like Japan's Imperial Household Agency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Household_Agency).
3) You picture of the NTF rebellion is based on a limited information falacy. Canonically, you are playing a terran pilot on the Acquitance, which appears to be acting in rapid response capacity rather than to engage in prolonged fighting of any kind - that appears to be job of more local units, such as the 11th or 13th Vasudan Battlegroups . Since the information you are given during any given briefing is limited to your current posting, you cannot infer from that what other units are doing unless a Command Briefing comes and expands on the events, e.g the CB for The Sixth Wonder mentions a failed campaign against Sirius.
4) As related to 3, the Mission Briefing for Into the Maelstrom, points out that relations are strained which lead to an active seperation of terran and vasudan units in the field.
5) Same as 3 but for the Sathanas invasion. You participate in a low number of engagements, which might be key engagements as the 70th is an elite unit, but not in everything that is going on - the mission briefing from FS2's Exodus onward try to give you a sense of scale of the Acquitane's operations; now scale that up with ships we can infer from canon to be in Capella at this point: the Colossus and the Messana, as well as possibly the Memphis, the Hedetet and the Carthage.
6) If the Vasudans were holding back, why deploy the Memphis (see Straight, No Chaser), the Psamtik (see Fog of War and onwards) and the Toeris (see Speaking in Tongues) to the Nebula? - That's a significant committment, esspecially since in the CB of Battle of the Wilderness it is stated that destruction of Ravana did not suppress Shivan activity in the Nebula but it intensified in response to the loss of the Ravana.
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Orpheus has a very good response, I just wanted to say that this conspiracy theory was probably conveyed by admiral Bosch himself to rally his NTF rebellion in the first place. I'd even go so far as to imply that these dark plots are always on the back of everyone's minds and backtracking any progress between the two species, still too afraid of each other to give in to implicit trust.
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Of course the UN parallel comes to mind, but :v-old: refuses to give any concrete infos on that so you can say what you want.
One way or another, while the Vasudans lost their homeworld FS made it rather clear that they left VP earlier and probably had more industry in the colonies than the Terrran systems which were mostly depending on Sol; so the Vasudans would dominate the GTVA by economic power alone even if the politics would be balanced 50/50.
Regarding Capella, the Supernova cutscene shows 2 Hatshepsuts, 1 of them blowing up so I think they were certainly more involved than the engine/computers allowed to show back then.
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Pretty much what Orph3u5 said, although I think it would work as an in-universe conspiracy theory for neo-Neo Terran Frontists.
Thanks to the player's narrow point of view, there's a lot of blanks in our perception of the FS lore, so us fans have to make a number assumptions, guesses and interpretations.
For instance, others have made the assumption that the General Assembly is a purely Terran institution, with the Security Council being a mixed-species body.
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It would make kinda sense to have the General Assembly as the Terrans fell into "power-blocks" instead of a unified state, so they would represent every Terran system.
I had a different take on the NTF than "Average Anti-Vasudan Violence guys" and "let's call ET" though, with more economic interests but that's just my headcanon.
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1: The structure of the GTVA’s government.
As we know, the Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance is made up of three branches: The GTVA Security Council, which seems to be the governmental branch of the military/judiciary, the General Assembly, what seems to be an elected body of representatives representing the civilian governments of both races…and the Vasudan Imperium, basically meaning Khonsu II and his aides having control of an entire branch of government.
Now if the General Assembly was only made up of Terran representatives and did not represent Vasudans at all, we could say that we have equal representation. One Terran Branch, one Vasudan branch and one united military/judicial branch.
However, the lore omits to mention the makeup of the General Assembly and what information we have never mentions it’s a human-only body. Now if I’m right and the GA is made up of representatives of both races, this gives Vasudans far more power than the Terrans in how government is run because not only to they have some level of control of the civilian government, Khonsu himself has his own branch. While this is speculation, it’s likely that he has Veto power over the GA’s policy proposals.
In my admittedly simplistic view, I've thought of the system of government as being Security Council>Terran+Vasudan, General Assembly>Terran and Vasudan Imperium (self-explanatory). Khonsu II would still probably be the most powerful person in the GTVA, since he would be the representative of an entire species and as emperor would have the final say in many Vasudan matters.
2: The GTA after the Great War/Hades Rebellion
Canon states that the GTA was collapsing into a bunch of regional blocs following the events of FS1/Silent Threat. While some may argue that this was a golden opportunity for Vasudans to finish off the Terrans who were increasingly disorganized, they simply had no ability to do so. The Vasudans had lost their homeworld and likely the lion’s share of their industrial production. Even if Khonsu wanted to crush the Terrans, it was impossible. However using their governmental crisis under the guise of a long-term alliance and taking the opportunity to form a unified government for both species (favouring the Vasudans who did the leg work uniting the Terran factions), over time it would become possible to undermine Terran authority and allow Khonsu II to effectively rule over them.
I like this one. In addition to losses of material, ships and personnel during the war with the Shivans it's probably safe to also acknowledge the threat of the HoL complicating any attempted offensive against the Terrans. Soft power would be key here, while the PVE/Imperium's military could focus on the insurgency.
3: The Civil War.
While Vasudans were the initial victims of the NTF’s insurgency as Bosch secured Ancient archeological sites, the brunt of the fighting was done by Terrans themselves – at least from what we could see during the end of the civil war. The Vasudans were apparently content to (mostly)sit on the sidelines while two human factions pummeled each other. Regardless of how you see it, this can only be good for Khonsu’s plans to subjugate Terrans. While Terrans lose ships and manpower, Vasudans can keep their numbers strong, maybe even surpassing the Terrans in overall number of warships.
Given that Sirius borders both Deneb and Alpha Centauri, the NTF have always been in a position to cut off the Vasudans and to bombard their major colonies (ex: Cygnus Prime). As far as we know, their are only 5 "Vasudan" systems; two of which are under attack and the two more at risk of being cut off. This alone would see the Vasudans take on the lion's share of the fighting in that region.
4: The Second Shivan Incursion
This was purely a matter of “luck”, but FS2’s story does end, once again, with the Vasudans in a position of power. The Shivans are held back, Terrans lost one of (if not the most) populated colony they had along with dozens of warships, hundreds of fighter craft and hundreds of thousands of people. Vasudans? Oh, they maybe lost a Mentu or Sobek here and there, but where they might have gotten away from the Shivans with a bloody nose, the Terrans were left in Intensive Care…
4: Orpheus and Nightmare raise good points. The Vasudans definetly suffered more losses then just errant cruisers. I agree with your bloody nose vs intensive care result.
In the aftermath of Capella, I'd think that any plans for a Vasudan takeover would have been scrapped at least temporarily. As Petrarch states during the final mission, the allied fleet had been "pulverized", so maintaining security over their colonies and standing-by to intercept any new Shivan incursion with what remains of their battlegroups would probably be in the Vasudans primary interest. Now, what could help the Imperium are the quarter billion Capellans. Many of them would probably have been grateful for the Vasudans' efforts in defending their homes. Perhaps as these Terrans settle in "convenient" places such as Sirius, these systems could become something of a vassal to them in the future.
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In my admittedly simplistic view, I've thought of the system of government as being Security Council>Terran+Vasudan, General Assembly>Terran and Vasudan Imperium (self-explanatory). Khonsu II would still probably be the most powerful person in the GTVA, since he would be the representative of an entire species and as emperor would have the final say in many Vasudan matters.
That's what I always assumed, but reading through the lore entries and playing the games, I have a feeling this may not be the case. As for the others saying the GTVA acts like the UN or something, I beg to differ. While every planet might have some level of autonomy, the GTVA is, as stated by Petrarch, "The supreme authority in Terran-Vasudan space". This means the laws enacted are to be followed by all "member planets". We don't know if the fringes of space actually has Terran or Vasudan factions outside the GTVA, but one thing is certain - the Alliance is a firm government, not some ineffectual entity where all nations (read: planets) have a voice and aren't necessarily bound by their edicts.
Given that Sirius borders both Deneb and Alpha Centauri, the NTF have always been in a position to cut off the Vasudans and to bombard their major colonies (ex: Cygnus Prime). As far as we know, their are only 5 "Vasudan" systems; two of which are under attack and the two more at risk of being cut off. This alone would see the Vasudans take on the lion's share of the fighting in that region.
I do agree the Vasudans took quite a few hits there and I may have forgotten about that :P However it seems that in if there was a conspiracy, Khonsu might be tempted to let Vasudans suffer at human hands to increase resentment towards them. And of course, the Terrans fighting amongst themselves is obviously a plus.
4: Orpheus and Nightmare raise good points. The Vasudans definetly suffered more losses then just errant cruisers. I agree with your bloody nose vs intensive care result.
True, they lost more than a few Cruisers (the Psamtik comes to mind) but regardless, Terrans took a lot more damage than Vasudans during the Shivans' return.
In the aftermath of Capella, I'd think that any plans for a Vasudan takeover would have been scrapped at least temporarily. As Petrarch states during the final mission, the allied fleet had been "pulverized", so maintaining security over their colonies and standing-by to intercept any new Shivan incursion with what remains of their battlegroups would probably be in the Vasudans primary interest. Now, what could help the Imperium are the quarter billion Capellans. Many of them would probably have been grateful for the Vasudans' efforts in defending their homes. Perhaps as these Terrans settle in "convenient" places such as Sirius, these systems could become something of a vassal to them in the future.
True, the shivans definitely threw a spanner in the works, but it could be far worse...Maybe Khonsu will have to wait a decade or two longer than he'd hoped, but the Vasudans are a patient people.
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First, mind if I take some of it for the background materials on the NTF in The Lost Generation - Ashcroft (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=92732.0), up to verbatim quotes? I have some in-universe conspiracy theories already in play but since one of the most insidious aspects of consipracy theories is that they can be quite à la carte, more is always better :D
Sure, just give me appropriate credits :D I'm interested in knowing which quotes you plan on taking. Also if you need a writer, I guess I could help - I have some talent in that field :P
Now on to the objections:
1) Your analogy of the GTVA to a national government is flawed. It actually mirrors the structure of the UN, the main bodies of which are the General Assembly (where each UN member state has a seat and a vote) and the Security Council (which has a number of permanent and temporary members; with the permanent members holding a veto power against any resoultion brought before the body).
It mirrors it in structure, yes, but not in how it actually runs. If the UN had the power the GTVA has, member nations wouldn't really be nations anymore. I'd compare the GTVA to the EU (a frightening thought) more than the UN. Let's just hope the laws aren't enacted by unelected bureaucrats like in the EU...
2) There is no evidence what the Vasudan Imperium actually is - but considering that there are able paralells between the PVN and the popular conception of the Japanse Naval forces in WW2, it is not beyond possibility that the Vasudan Imperium simply is meant to be something like Japan's Imperial Household Agency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Household_Agency).
Hmm, how is that an objection to my points?
3) You picture of the NTF rebellion is based on a limited information falacy. Canonically, you are playing a terran pilot on the Acquitance, which appears to be acting in rapid response capacity rather than to engage in prolonged fighting of any kind - that appears to be job of more local units, such as the 11th or 13th Vasudan Battlegroups . Since the information you are given during any given briefing is limited to your current posting, you cannot infer from that what other units are doing unless a Command Briefing comes and expands on the events, e.g the CB for The Sixth Wonder mentions a failed campaign against Sirius.
4) As related to 3, the Mission Briefing for Into the Maelstrom, points out that relations are strained which lead to an active seperation of terran and vasudan units in the field.
I'm aware we lack critical information given our point of view in the game. But at the same time, I think :V: gave the information they wanted the player to have. The Aquitaine isn't a rapid response ship even though that's how it often seems. It's the flagship of the 3rd fleet, based in Capella. They'll be deployed to nearby theaters in cases of need, but they're supposed to be patrolling Capella and its outlying areas when not at war. It is true that we can't infer what's going on elsewhere, but I'm operating with what we know here :)
6) If the Vasudans were holding back, why deploy the Memphis (see Straight, No Chaser), the Psamtik (see Fog of War and onwards) and the Toeris (see Speaking in Tongues) to the Nebula? - That's a significant committment, esspecially since in the CB of Battle of the Wilderness it is stated that destruction of Ravana did not suppress Shivan activity in the Nebula but it intensified in response to the loss of the Ravana.
The 13th Battlegroup had been deployed. I'm guessing, but it's likely those three destroyers were the major capital ships of that battlegroup, so it's not like additional deployment was done. Now, as for why the Vasudans made the push in the nebula? One reason would be for "balance", given that the Terrans just lost significant resources against both the Shivans and the NTF, it's the Vasudans' turn on the wheel. Another reason would be because they'd be more than happy to get their hands on Bosch BEFORE the Terrans do.
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The Aquitaine isn't a rapid response ship even though that's how it often seems. It's the flagship of the 3rd fleet, based in Capella. They'll be deployed to nearby theaters in cases of need, but they're supposed to be patrolling Capella and its outlying areas when not at war.
It is true that the Aquitaine (spelled correctly this time) is not a dedicated rapid response unit, but throughout the FS2 campaign it is deployed like one. That is not contradictory to it being the flagship of the 3rd Fleet or being permanently stationed in Capella.
It's like real world state deploying ships for a multilateral mission, e.g. EU NAVFOR Somalia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Atalanta).
1) Your analogy of the GTVA to a national government is flawed. It actually mirrors the structure of the UN, the main bodies of which are the General Assembly (where each UN member state has a seat and a vote) and the Security Council (which has a number of permanent and temporary members; with the permanent members holding a veto power against any resoultion brought before the body).
It mirrors it in structure, yes, but not in how it actually runs. If the UN had the power the GTVA has, member nations wouldn't really be nations anymore. I'd compare the GTVA to the EU (a frightening thought) more than the UN.
The intel entry (Species.tbl) for the GTVA give us the following:
This treaty organization recognized the autonomy of its constituents as it provided a framework for trade and mutual defense.
[...]
BETAC dismantled the governments of the Terran blocs and recognized the General Assembly, the Security Council, and the Vasudan Imperium as the supreme authorities of Terran-Vasudan space.
Note that it says "supreme authority" not sole or absolute authority - there is no "L'etat c'est moi" in there. This suggests that are still structures of regional authority below the GTVA. The earlier part of the line about the disolution of the bloc-governments doesn't contradict this - esspecially since it is emphasised that there is a recognition of autonomy; the bloc-goverments may have simply been incompatible with the overarching framework, esspecially since the "Reconstruction"-entry mentions that the hegemony of pan-Terranism needed to be reestablished during the the Reconstruction:
With its economy in ruins and political structures in turmoil, the Galactic Terran Alliance disintegrated into semi-autonomous regional blocs, each with its own agenda. [...] the resumption of open commerce rekindled the notion of a pan-Terran community.
That the NTF is described as seeking "independence" in Surrender, Belisarius doesn't contradict this either; it is actually made clear that what they are seeking independence from are the BETAC structures. There is much daylight between autonomy and independence.
2) There is no evidence what the Vasudan Imperium actually is - but considering that there are able paralells between the PVN and the popular conception of the Japanse Naval forces in WW2, it is not beyond possibility that the Vasudan Imperium simply is meant to be something like Japan's Imperial Household Agency.
Hmm, how is that an objection to my points?
You are argument implied that the Vasudan Imperium is a co-equal branch of the GTVA. I would like to propose that if the GTVA has a structures of regional autonomy (see above), the Vasudan Imperium might serve a purpose other than policy making - it might very well just be a "palace office" for the Vasudan Emperor which has primarily the function to observe traditional protocoll is followed. With its station being elevated to an institution of the GTVA to put it above the political negotiations of the regional vasudan governments (historically the office of Emperor across cultures has been given a certain "divine quality" e.g. the Divine Right of European monarchs rooted in christianity or the Mandate of Heaven in China)
Of course a different view would be to equate it to the household of the Princeps in the Roman Empire... but there is little evidence to support that all the other materials on the Vasudans; the analogies to Japan and Imperial China are much stronger in the text.
The 13th Battlegroup had been deployed. I'm guessing, but it's likely those three destroyers were the major capital ships of that battlegroup, so it's not like additional deployment was done. Now, as for why the Vasudans made the push in the nebula? One reason would be for "balance", given that the Terrans just lost significant resources against both the Shivans and the NTF, it's the Vasudans' turn on the wheel. Another reason would be because they'd be more than happy to get their hands on Bosch BEFORE the Terrans do.
a) The application of Ockham's Razor to the material suggest that the Vasudan forces simple became avalible after having been bound up in the fight against the NTF previously.
b) There is a limit of what you can deploy to theatre such as the Nebula, e.g. there are no planetary bodies (canonically) to land to troops on.
ps. I am so tempted to just empty out the script for Of Shivans and Men right now, because in writing that I went into detail on a version of how the Vasudan Monarchy works. Let's just say while Kvasi from Walking on Ashes (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95394.0)/The Lost Generation - Jaarin might be an edge chase - I mean he is an honest to goodness cultist - I spend a good bit of time on idea that for Imperial Vasudans the Emperor is more than secular monarch.
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On the other hand Khonsu himself was credited for the economic and political recovery which implies that he still has considerable power.
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On the other hand Khonsu himself was credited for the economic and political recovery which implies that he still has considerable power.
Have a look at the timeline:
The Vasudans were governed by a Parliament until 2339, when the Vasudan Emperor, Khonsu II, dissolved this body and formed a new government
The Galactic Terran-Vasudan Alliance (GTVA) was formed in 2345.
Note that after that the hard power decisions of the GTVA are made the Security Council. The economic and cultural recovery of the Vasudans is credited to Khonsu but that doesn't need to be a hard power affair. It can easily be done through soft power alone, which doesn't require an involvement day-to-day policy affairs. Various states have their heads of state only be figureheads to inspire the citizens and represent the professed ideals of the state. (Now of course there are also state that don't seperate the head of state form the head of government.... with predictable results....)
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Not impossible - as I said before the Vasudans probably had more industry in their colonies (which the GTVA was made of).
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I think it’s an awesome idea. I haven’t really seen this explored before.
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Not impossible - as I said before the Vasudans probably had more industry in their colonies (which the GTVA was made of).
Vasuda Prime's probably a pretty good source for mining now, right?
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There should be mining sites everywhere; the Vasudans could use them money generated by their superior economy to buy mines in "Terran" GTVA space which AFAIK is much larger.
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Not impossible - as I said before the Vasudans probably had more industry in their colonies (which the GTVA was made of).
Vasuda Prime's probably a pretty good source for mining now, right?
Depends how high the radiation is, I guess...
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I would presume they have tech to handle that, I mean GTVA uses depleted uranium as armor on some ships...
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Here's another point to bring forward for this conspiracy.
The GTVA Colossus :
This jointly-developped boondogle also reeks of Vasudan political meddling. Here’s how I see it. Assume that my proposed form of government is how the GTVA is set up (there’s no canon proof for or against… from what I can tell)
1: Khonsu II officially proposes a joint project to the GTVA General Assembly via the Vasudan Imperium: Build a ship that could, with the current wave of technological advance, wipe out a Shivan Lucifer should one make an appearance.
2: After much political lobbying in the Assembly, the project sees approval. Terran demands include a majority share for tenders and most contractors are Terran (The Colossus propaganda piece cites only one major Vasudan contractor and mentions it last). The crew would be mixed, but the ship’s first captain would be Terran. Vasudan representatives object for a time, but cave in to Terran demands. Vasudan government spin doctors use the “Economic reconstruction trumps ego” line to sell the project to its own people.
3: The Colossus is built. However as Khonsu had planned all along knowing this would amount to little more than a PR boondoggle, the Terrans overspent and their economy actually gets bogged down with production of that “monstrosity” to quote Rear Admiral Koth. Vasudan stock exchanges make great gains while Triton Dynamics and Subach-Innes, the biggest military contractors the Terrans have, stagnate due to an inability to respond to demand for other projects, such as weapon systems and fighters.
4: Thanks to some corporate espionage during development, Mekhu enterprises reverse-engineer the Subach HL-7 and create an arguably superior variant for Vasudans. Subach sues Mekhu for copyright infringement. Mekhu wins on a technicality due to the slight differences in power, ROF, etc. Also helps that the 3-judge panel was majority Vasudan (via Khonsu’s influence). This decision occurs a few years before the emergence of the NTF and acts as one of the Anti-Vasudan arguments it put forward.
All in all, the Colossus was a great way to both undermine the Terran economy and military production abilities, while at the same time increasing Vasudan political clout.
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3: The Colossus is built. However as Khonsu had planned all along knowing this would amount to little more than a PR boondoggle, the Terrans overspent and their economy actually gets bogged down with production of that “monstrosity” to quote Rear Admiral Koth. Vasudan stock exchanges make great gains while Triton Dynamics and Subach-Innes, the biggest military contractors the Terrans have, stagnate due to an inability to respond to demand for other projects, such as weapon systems and fighters.
I don't think the Terran companies were effected, as their ships aren't inferior to the Vasudan ones. Regarding 4, it's an interesting take, but I don't see that much hint for that - though economic espionage certainly should be a thing.
However I really like this economic approach to FS lore, most discussions here go like "Thing X happend, than Thing Y so this might have happened"; however my take is that things like the "Vasudan economic miracle" don't happen out of the blue sky.
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I would presume they have tech to handle that, I mean GTVA uses depleted uranium as armor on some ships...
Collapsed-core molybdenum even, which would be ungodly unstable.
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I also love this kind of stuff, I just think that giving huge contracts to human corporations isn't as much a big problem as you see it, if anything they can expand their operations and profit even more. I like these simple details like running into lack of human resources by stretching their endeavours too thin and thus halting other military projects. What I'm not buying is this notion that the stocks of these companies grind to a halt. As far as I can see, whenever big corporations get these kinds of contracts, their stocks go up, not down. IOW, more demand never drives your stocks down, it's against all economic laws.
Now, it may well be that the terran military gets bogged down with these projects and simply is unable to keep up with the vasudans' investments on their own fleets. But not the corporations (sellers), the military (buyers).
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I think it’s an awesome idea. I haven’t really seen this explored before.
... it could use a few more acting characters and a lot less hypercompetence and/or hyperagency, no?
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I think it’s an awesome idea. I haven’t really seen this explored before.
... it could use a few more acting characters and a lot less hypercompetence and/or hyperagency, no?
Hey, gimme a break here, I'm just thinking out loud and using you as a sounding board :P I'm still thinking the whole plot thread through. I'll put some time on that during the weekend just for kicks :D
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I also love this kind of stuff, I just think that giving huge contracts to human corporations isn't as much a big problem as you see it, if anything they can expand their operations and profit even more. I like these simple details like running into lack of human resources by stretching their endeavours too thin and thus halting other military projects. What I'm not buying is this notion that the stocks of these companies grind to a halt. As far as I can see, whenever big corporations get these kinds of contracts, their stocks go up, not down. IOW, more demand never drives your stocks down, it's against all economic laws.
Now, it may well be that the terran military gets bogged down with these projects and simply is unable to keep up with the vasudans' investments on their own fleets. But not the corporations (sellers), the military (buyers).
Well, I see Terran stocks stagnating further down the line because the project was tying up other things. While I don't think Terrans lagged behind Vasudans in terms of quantity of hardware, I like to think the crap equipment (such as the Prometheus R and the clearly underwhelming Myrmidon) might have to do with economic stagnation. Sure they talk about Nebula gas mining operations having issues in-game, but again, those could be explained due to economic woes.
So of course when the project gets enacted, Terran corps get a huge stock boost. But after 2 decades of working on the darn thing, anyone other than those directly involved in the Colossus' construction couldn't care less. I'd argue it becomes a financial quagmire and the corporations involved may have doubts it will ever be finished (heck, a mere change in political leanings could lead to the whole thing being canned).
Investors would lose confidence in the corporations involved due to the uncertainty of the megaproject - especially if it's heavily classified (as is likely is given that the propaganda piece itself had a security clearance requirement)
One thing comes to mind: How the hell do you keep this project a secret for 20 years? With the tens of thousands of people involved?
The GTVA must be lying through their teeth to explain away this massive spending...
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I think it’s an awesome idea. I haven’t really seen this explored before.
... it could use a few more acting characters and a lot less hypercompetence and/or hyperagency, no?
I don't think so. Though I'm not 100% sure what you mean with "hyperagency" but as far as I can see that it's just economic and political rules at work. The same way you could describe the Euro-crysis as a conspiracy theory when it's just politcians playing their riffs on economic rules.
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I don't think so. Though I'm not 100% sure what you mean with "hyperagency" but as far as I can see that it's just economic and political rules at work. The same way you could describe the Euro-crysis as a conspiracy theory when it's just politcians playing their riffs on economic rules.
"Hyperagency" is when a character is able to affect every relevant element of a narrative, either themselves or by proxy; "hypercompetence" by contrast is when a character is always successful in their actions and/or always able to dicern an optimal course of action.
Both pose significant problems in storytelling as they negate sources of tension.
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I think your overplaying the role of the Colossus a bit though - sure it was extreme expensive but they also built dozens of other destroyers, corvs and whatever.
Whether the Myrmidon sucked - it might be simply that :v-old: altered the ships purpose and forgot to alter stats; on the other hand there's some discussion whether it sucked at all or whether it just takes more pilot skills to be useful: https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/GTF_Myrmidon#Veteran_Comments
While the Prom R is aweful there's no evidence that the Zods have better weapons - :v-old: simply didn't make any.
One thing comes to mind: How the hell do you keep this project a secret for 20 years? With the tens of thousands of people involved?
They didn't kept it a secret. They probably kept technical details secret and they didn't announced the first deployment for tactical reasons but the Colly vid says:
In 2345, on the tenth anniversary of the Shivan attack on Ross 128, the Vasudan Emperor Khonsu II addressed the newly-formed GTVA General Assembly. The Emperor inaugurated an ambitious and unprecedented joint endeavor: the GTVA Colossus.
In the end it is a political project of the GTVA as a whole so GTVA (the gov - Terrans and Zods) will pay as much as it takes.
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I don't think so. Though I'm not 100% sure what you mean with "hyperagency" but as far as I can see that it's just economic and political rules at work. The same way you could describe the Euro-crysis as a conspiracy theory when it's just politcians playing their riffs on economic rules.
"Hyperagency" is when a character is able to affect every relevant element of a narrative, either themselves or by proxy; "hypercompetence" by contrast is when a character is always successful in their actions and/or always able to dicern an optimal course of action.
Both pose significant problems in storytelling as they negate sources of tension.
Thanks for the explination. :) I don't think that it is the case here - unless one believes that Khonsu was the sole mastermind behind that. As far as it is depicted here the Vasudans gained more and more influence over the Terrans at the timeframe of several decades, and with increasing power new opportunities arrive that they can exploit and so forth.
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Yeah, forgot that Khonsu announced the Colossus publically.
But regarding the Prom R... Could it be that the gas shortage was not due to production problems, but the brunt of said production being shifted to the Colossus - a problem that keeps on going for years so this retrofit is developed. Now of course both races would be stuck with it, but I'd argue Vasudan pilots feeling self-superior (you see this behavior on several occasions during tha campaign), they would prefer Vasudan-made weapons. Again, requires some thinking, but I could see the Prom R being an issue that mostly affected Terrans who read the official spec sheet for the thing and thought it was actually better than Subachs.
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I don't think so. Though I'm not 100% sure what you mean with "hyperagency" but as far as I can see that it's just economic and political rules at work. The same way you could describe the Euro-crysis as a conspiracy theory when it's just politcians playing their riffs on economic rules.
"Hyperagency" is when a character is able to affect every relevant element of a narrative, either themselves or by proxy; "hypercompetence" by contrast is when a character is always successful in their actions and/or always able to dicern an optimal course of action.
Both pose significant problems in storytelling as they negate sources of tension.
Thanks for the explination. :) I don't think that it is the case here - unless one believes that Khonsu was the sole mastermind behind that. As far as it is depicted here the Vasudans gained more and more influence over the Terrans at the timeframe of several decades, and with increasing power new opportunities arrive that they can exploit and so forth.
Not saying Khonsu is the sole mastermind, but under this conspiracy, he would be its leader. Maybe Khonsu has hidden political affiliations with Vasudan supremacists prior to being made Emperor...
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I think the Prom R (and it's tech desc) were simply :v-old: reason why not to give the player a really powerful weapon in the beginning.
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I think the Prom R (and it's tech desc) were simply :v-old: reason why not to give the player a really powerful weapon in the beginning.
I understand we can rule things as "gameplay reasons", but that's part of the fun of trying to build lore. Explaining all those "gameplay reasons" away :P
Of course we can't explain why Shivan weapons are so weak given they're canonically "too much". That's just a way to keep the player from ragequitting on Easy difficulty :)
But I think that in the interest of world building, we should try to explain those gameplay quirks. Volition could have given us just Subachs and Akhetons for the first act. They chose to give us a retrofit Prometheus and put a reason as to why it's there.
Let's use it :)
EDIT: I mean, it would have been easy to just say "As a new recruit, you will be authorized to carry the Subach HL-7 and Akheton SDG only. Command will decide when you're ready for more efficient weaponry."
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Not saying Khonsu is the sole mastermind, but under this conspiracy, he would be its leader. Maybe Khonsu has hidden political affiliations with Vasudan supremacists prior to being made Emperor...
Pls don't make it a conspiracy. As I said before you don't need em - you could blame the Euro crysis on a bunch of world goverment networked politicians but most of the consequences- economic boom in one country, stagnation in another one - are often the result of a mixture of simple basic economic rules. Of course politicians can certainly influence that much, but whether they consider that an opportinity depends on many things (and if you benefit, you probably won't change anything).
If you're going for intra-Vasudan political influence, you could say he might have been backed by industry groups that the Zods are particular good in (like reactors that they sell to the Terrans)
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Of course we can't explain why Shivan weapons are so weak given they're canonically "too much". That's just a way to keep the player from ragequitting on Easy difficulty :)
Actually, BPs explination that Shivan weapons are highly advanced but "not directed" made most sense to me. With all-rounder weapons it is more difficult to damage.
Again, canon incontinence. :p In both the FS1 and FS2 intro Shivan weapons are much deadlier than ingame,. :D
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Not saying Khonsu is the sole mastermind, but under this conspiracy, he would be its leader. Maybe Khonsu has hidden political affiliations with Vasudan supremacists prior to being made Emperor...
Pls don't make it a conspiracy.
well, hmm, it's pretty much the entire point of my story proposal - a Vasudan conspiracy at the highest levels of their government to gradually erode Terran power and make them into a vassal species which is carefully put forward over decades following the end of the first Shivan conflict. So I kinda have to make it a conspiracy :)
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So I kinda have to make it a conspiracy :)
No you don't. :p (Depending on how much you want to put into this). For the same reason you could ask: why is the economy in southern Europe running that bad, with many unemployed people while it is still working comparable good in nothern Europe? You can say that there's some backdoor conspiracy behind a bunch of criminal elites, but the truth is much more complex.
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BTW what would the Vasudan position to opening the Sol node be? That seems kinda inevitable, but it would doom all there fine planings.
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I don't think that it is the case here - unless one believes that Khonsu was the sole mastermind behind that. As far as it is depicted here the Vasudans gained more and more influence over the Terrans at the timeframe of several decades, and with increasing power new opportunities arrive that they can exploit and so forth.
Well, the point of the OP thesis is that this was all planned by Khonsu from the get go. I think Orpheus is exactly right about the problems here, but a slight tone correction to the story is enough. Just like you imply, make Khonsu perform certain decisions that he knows will improve the odds of undermining Terran's performance in their economy all the while pretending he is doing it altruistically or in the spirit of allyship. He doesn't know the outcome of his decisions, he's more like a chess player who places his pieces not because he's already calculating a check mate, but rather because he knows that having those pieces there he is creating possibilities and openings that may eventually lead to a mating net, if your opponent distracts himself just a bit (positional play).
There's another move that Khonsu could have made subtletly here and there for that effect: feed upon terran's paranoia about Vasudans, in order to amp up NTF's numbers. Let them fight each other, even if at the cost of some vasudan lives. While it is true that vasudans engaged the NTF head on, let's not forget that the brunt of resources, lives and ships lost was human (both from the GTA and NTF). By my count, several cruisers, at least two Orion destroyers and a couple of deimos-class corvettes, and IDK how many fighters and bombers.
This would be a 100% safe move. There just was no way that a NTF insurrection could ever be successful, for there was always the Collossus trump card to clean house at the end.
BTW what would the Vasudan position to opening the Sol node be? That seems kinda inevitable, but it would doom all there fine planings.
At first glance, maybe so. But consider Inferno or BP: It's quite clear that it could well end up in another civil war scenario. It would, at least, throw the human colonies into a chaotic mess, with refugees trying to flee to Sol, a lot of economic turmoil and political shenanigans. Many in Sol, OTOH, having learned about Capella, would probably freak the **** out about being opened up again to interstellar nodes. A lot of uncertainty there, but chaos would be guaranteed. The only thing Khonsu would have to make sure would be that Sol wouldn't be a direct threat to Vasudans, and then continue to play the long game.
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Thats an interesting thought. Defeating the NTF would certainly demolish any significant (large scale or organised) anti-GTVA opposition in Terran space.
At first glance, maybe so. But consider Inferno or BP: It's quite clear that it could well end up in another civil war scenario.
Probably one that GTVA could lose though. Sol would only have to take Delta Serpentis and it would be split in half.
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So I kinda have to make it a conspiracy :)
No you don't. :p (Depending on how much you want to put into this). For the same reason you could ask: why is the economy in southern Europe running that bad, with many unemployed people while it is still working comparable good in nothern Europe? You can say that there's some backdoor conspiracy behind a bunch of criminal elites, but the truth is much more complex.
Of course - I don't want to blame EVERYTHING on the conspiracy - but conspiracy there is nonetheless :P
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BTW what would the Vasudan position to opening the Sol node be? That seems kinda inevitable, but it would doom all there fine planings.
I'd say the general public would encourage reunification with Earth if only because they wish they could reunite with their own homeworld. Of course you'd have some who are bitter and oppose the plan out of jealousy.
As for the government...To be sure Khonsu, in this conspiracy scenario, would like to delay this reunification as long as possible, but he knows it would be inevitable.
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So I kinda have to make it a conspiracy :)
No you don't. :p (Depending on how much you want to put into this). For the same reason you could ask: why is the economy in southern Europe running that bad, with many unemployed people while it is still working comparable good in nothern Europe? You can say that there's some backdoor conspiracy behind a bunch of criminal elites, but the truth is much more complex.
Of course - I don't want to blame EVERYTHING on the conspiracy - but conspiracy there is nonetheless :P
If you say so :cool:
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BTW what would the Vasudan position to opening the Sol node be? That seems kinda inevitable, but it would doom all there fine planings.
I'd say the general public would encourage reunification with Earth if only because they wish they could reunite with their own homeworld. Of course you'd have some who are bitter and oppose the plan out of jealousy.
As for the government...To be sure Khonsu, in this conspiracy scenario, would like to delay this reunification as long as possible, but he knows it would be inevitable.
I had some similar ideas in mind... :drevil:
In case of a Vasudan takeover, a BP'esque "we pretend to be friendly" invasion plan would make sense though.
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And as for the EU...Well I would say the conspiracy isn't how the southern countries are worse off than the northern ones.
I'd say it's the erosion of national boundaries leading to the creation of a Super-State ruled by unelected bureaucrats. Oh, wait...That's actually happening right now...
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One way or another - good luck with your project! Do you want to make this a campaign or fiction-only?
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Of course we can't explain why Shivan weapons are so weak given they're canonically "too much". That's just a way to keep the player from ragequitting on Easy difficulty :)
Sure we can!
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I think it’s an awesome idea. I haven’t really seen this explored before.
... it could use a few more acting characters and a lot less hypercompetence and/or hyperagency, no?
It’s an idea.
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Well, I have delusions of grandeur so I was picturing a three-part campaign with 20 missions each or something, with one being in the Post FS1 era, the second occuring during the main campaign of FS2 and the third being some years later.
Thing is, that's just a pipe dream because I suck at using FRED (I never figured out the simplest SEXP's). :banghead:
So I guess I'll have to write a fanfic or something, lol
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Well I read it and give lots of unconstructive crticism then ;) (I tend to be harsher with fanfics than with campaigns) :p
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I don't think so. Though I'm not 100% sure what you mean with "hyperagency" but as far as I can see that it's just economic and political rules at work. The same way you could describe the Euro-crysis as a conspiracy theory when it's just politcians playing their riffs on economic rules.
"Hyperagency" is when a character is able to affect every relevant element of a narrative, either themselves or by proxy; "hypercompetence" by contrast is when a character is always successful in their actions and/or always able to dicern an optimal course of action.
Both pose significant problems in storytelling as they negate sources of tension.
Thanks for the explination. :) I don't think that it is the case here - unless one believes that Khonsu was the sole mastermind behind that. As far as it is depicted here the Vasudans gained more and more influence over the Terrans at the timeframe of several decades, and with increasing power new opportunities arrive that they can exploit and so forth.
Well, than let me introduce you to a third concept I was hoping not bring up because it way more complicated: "Hyperintentionality" (which is according to Wikipedia's english lexicon not a word in the english language)
"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting. Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.
"Hyperintentionality" often occurs because of the presence of characters with hyperagency and/or hypercompetence. And unlike those two it is next to no uses in dramatic storytelling - it basically the easiest way to transfer a story into a clockwork.
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So I guess I'll have to write a fanfic or something, lol
I'd read that :nod:
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Good storytelling is such a complex thing :o
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Good storytelling is such a complex thing :o
Tell me about it... I've been trying to write a proper sci-fi book for years now without much success.
But a multi-chapter fan "novel" based in the FS Universe - I'm game to try :)
you never know maybe someone'll make it into a campaign...
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lol I was told that I could use my ideas for FS campaigns to make actual books from them if I could get rid of the FS part in them. :lol:
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lol I was told that I could use my ideas for FS campaigns to make actual books from them if I could get rid of the FS part in them. :lol:
Well I had one that retained one fundamental element from FS - Jump nodes. The fundamental principle was different enough but practically...same thing. But then again this type of space travel isn't limited to FS. Sins of a Solar Empire uses "Phase Lanes" to travel between planets and stars...Might not be jumping inside some portal to a sub-dimention, but essentially it's the same kind of thing - a bottleneck between sections of space :P
Makes tactical situations so much easier to manage :D
Rest of the story was entirely different though. An alien encounter was planned, but as the big bombshell to set up a sequel at the end, :nervous:
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Ideas aren't the obstacle to turning your FS stories into published work. It's usually prose quality.
"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting. Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.
"Hyperintentionality" often occurs because of the presence of characters with hyperagency and/or hypercompetence. And unlike those two it is next to no uses in dramatic storytelling - it basically the easiest way to transfer a story into a clockwork.
This sounds like a perfectly valid and awesome way to tell stories.
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Jump nodes are actually pretty common; the basic toolset usually remains the same as the options are limited - no FTL, jump nodes, jump gates, free FTL roaming, a mix of that...
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"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting. Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.
"Hyperintentionality" often occurs because of the presence of characters with hyperagency and/or hypercompetence. And unlike those two it is next to no uses in dramatic storytelling - it basically the easiest way to transfer a story into a clockwork.
So basically, episodes 1-6 of Star Wars (except for the final 20 minutes) are completely Hyperintentional. Nothing happened in those six movies that Palpatine hadn't planned for :P
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"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting. Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.
"Hyperintentionality" often occurs because of the presence of characters with hyperagency and/or hypercompetence. And unlike those two it is next to no uses in dramatic storytelling - it basically the easiest way to transfer a story into a clockwork.
This sounds like a perfectly valid and awesome way to tell stories.
I knew you would like it.
But then again all it shows that we learned from very different traditions.
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"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting. Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.
"Hyperintentionality" often occurs because of the presence of characters with hyperagency and/or hypercompetence. And unlike those two it is next to no uses in dramatic storytelling - it basically the easiest way to transfer a story into a clockwork.
So basically, episodes 1-6 of Star Wars (except for the final 20 minutes) are completely Hyperintentional. Nothing happened in those six movies that Palpatine hadn't planned for :P
Wasn' that because "The Force" had a plan on its own?
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"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting. Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.
"Hyperintentionality" often occurs because of the presence of characters with hyperagency and/or hypercompetence. And unlike those two it is next to no uses in dramatic storytelling - it basically the easiest way to transfer a story into a clockwork.
This sounds like a perfectly valid and awesome way to tell stories.
I knew you would like it.
But then again all it shows that we learned from very different traditions.
No it doesn’t. Unless you’re going to tell me you don’t like Shakespeare. Romeo and Juliet is hyperintentional. Most of Pixar’s movies are hyperintentional.
‘The action is driven by the characters’ isn’t a necessity of good drama, but I’d say it’s one of the most common techniques, and a perfectly useful one.
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Battuta:
re-emphasis
"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting.
Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.
I said I skipped a lot because "intentionality" is a philosophical rabbit hole; e.g. you have to into the a whole affair to conceptualize the internal operation of the mind to form goals from present perceptions and past experiences.
As for the "you would like it":
It's a jab, at your preference for "master of the universe"-type of characters which you have expressed a affinity for in the past.
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Yeah, that's exactly what I just said. The action in the story proceeds from the characters and their interactions.
A bunch of great spy and political fiction is the same. Some romance too, come to think of it. A lot of Greek myth.
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Also why am I this boldface you
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Also why am I this boldface you
Inflection.
EDIT: A deadpan delivery of a joke doesn't work if you have to tag it with a symbol.
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Yeah, that's exactly what I just said. The action in the story proceeds from the characters and their interactions.
It's a "yes, but..."-affair. To radically cut this short, there is a huge difference between the interactions as the play out and as they are intended, is what I am getting add for one. For the other, you propose to consider the unintended interactions between characters - after all, acting in false consciousness and contibuting to end they did not intent is not a defect of the character but a matter of them being embedded in a system collective interaction, in which not all consequence of any given course of action is considered equally.
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I think I follow.
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It's about an objection to the model of "psychologcially motivated, goal-oriented characters as the active agents who move through cause-effect chains of events. These events are based on a series of temporal deadlines that resolve with a strong degree of colosue by the time the [story] concludes"1 being the singular way to tell a story - despite it admittably being the culturally hegemonial way of our present.
1 - Lowenstein, 2010: https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/rep.2010.110.1.105
(because I have that sitting on desk right this moment)
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"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting. Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.
"Hyperintentionality" often occurs because of the presence of characters with hyperagency and/or hypercompetence. And unlike those two it is next to no uses in dramatic storytelling - it basically the easiest way to transfer a story into a clockwork.
So basically, episodes 1-6 of Star Wars (except for the final 20 minutes) are completely Hyperintentional. Nothing happened in those six movies that Palpatine hadn't planned for :P
Since he's back for Episode 9, does that mean he oversaw things in the sequel trilogy too?
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Well I think it's safe to say this thread has gone off-topic :P
But yeah, I'm gonna get to writing this up. I've got TONS of ideas...and i might try a hand at FRED again (last time I touched it was in 2006) just to see if I can figure it out properly :P
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Good luck with that~ :)
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The Vasudans had a very good reason to try to increase their influence - their homeworld was destroyed, the Terrans' was only cut off.
Should Sol ever get reconnected, the Vasudans would be at quite a disadvantage, unless they had the stronger position in the GTVA.
I personally don't think that it's a conspiracy reaching up to the emperor to take over the whole GTVA, but there would definitely be some power play going on behind the scenes...
Like some secret trade deal phone calls that seemed to not have taken place at all and such.
Maybe even a secret Vasudan NTF sort of thing?
An NVF?
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The Vasudans had a very good reason to try to increase their influence - their homeworld was destroyed, the Terrans' was only cut off.
Should Sol ever get reconnected, the Vasudans would be at quite a disadvantage, unless they had the stronger position in the GTVA.
I think it's not only in the interest of the Vasudans but the GTVA-Terrans as well as they would put them into considerable disadvantaged too (politically and economically) with major Terran systems having as many inhabitants as Sols outer planets.
The Vasudans could use this to force their Terran allies to kill their family members...
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That is assuming the GTVA side would not agree to restore the capital back to Earth...
Khonsu may have been preparing for a happy reunion just in case.
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Returning to Earth is the only logical conclusion of FS IMO. GTVA politcians wouldn't like it probably. Earth might not like it either when they realize that they're open to Sath armada too.