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Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Topic started by: wesp5 on September 30, 2019, 09:27:32 am

Title: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on September 30, 2019, 09:27:32 am
Thanks to karajorma and others TBP has been finally moved to FSO 3.8.0 and has been released on Knossos! Find it here: https://fsnebula.org/mod/TBP

Please report any issues in this thread! I will start...

1. The game will display a shockwave error when 3D shockwaves are selected under options (this is common and not connected to the Achen Campaign).
2. It also seems that title screens are not getting reszized to the correct resolutions, but only cut sections of them are visible if the resolution is too low...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on September 30, 2019, 10:30:31 am
What do you mean by resolution too low?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on September 30, 2019, 11:04:41 am
Lots of datas...
In the file "Data.7z", there's another data folder inside the main folder (i.e. Data.7z/data) which contains the FRED documentation and a couple movies which are most likely not be found by the game.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on September 30, 2019, 11:50:41 am
What do you mean by resolution too low?

I tested it in a window with I would guess 800x600 or 1024x768, I'll have to check tomorrow...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on September 30, 2019, 03:20:33 pm
Is that actually a problem unless you're running window mode?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 01, 2019, 05:55:12 am
Is that actually a problem unless you're running window mode?

Could be. I narrowed it to the default Knossos launcher not having any resolution set. In that case the title screens might get cropped. If you choose a resolution, even the smallest one, it looks fine! So has anyone of you access to Knossos to have it set some default resolution that the mods can read?

On another note, I had the 3.6.0 release announced on Blues News and I added an article to the ModDB page pointing to the Knossos version. Has someone access to the main TBP page to update the info there too? Also can we see download numbers in Knossos to judge how many people play it?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Robsoie on October 03, 2019, 05:59:23 pm
As i was in a nostalgia mood and was replaying old "Babylon 5 I've Found Her (https://www.indiedb.com/games/babylon-5-ive-found-her-danger-opportunity)" (and i managed to find her (https://i.imgur.com/lM6tAyE.jpg) :D sadly she exploded a minute after) , i remembered there was a B5 game made with the freespace engine here.

And even better it was on knossos so easy to download, thanks.

So a few questions after playing a few of the Raider Wars missions :

- i see on this sub board that there's a 3.6.16 version (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=60643.0) from 2013, yet on knossos it's only 3.6.0 , so am i playing a very outdated version ?

- on reading some old threat i see mention of a Zathras mod (https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/downloads/zathras-28) and nearly everywhere it was recommended to get it, yet it looks like it's also from several years ago so is it always required on the knossos version ?

- on knossos release there's a training mission and the raider wars campaigns, on the board here (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=57216.0) there's a pack of additional campaigns but looking at the date it seems to be from 2012. So are they still compatible with the knossos release or do they need some work before getting there ?

Anyways, lots of fun so far in the campaign, good work !
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 03, 2019, 06:37:52 pm
- i see on this sub board that there's a 3.6.16 version (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=60643.0) from 2013, yet on knossos it's only 3.6.0 , so am i playing a very outdated version ?

That is a bit confusing because there are two version numbers in play here:

1) The version number of TBP, which up until the Knossos release had been 3.4b; the current Knossos release is 3.6 (or 3.6.0) and the most up-to-date version, and thanks to Knossos' handy developer interface will always be the most up-to-date version.

2) And the version number of the Freespace_Open Engine. Which is still being measured by 3.X.Y - with 3.8.0 the latest stable release version and 3.8.1 the current line of versions in testing - but soon will be measured differently.

On the developer side there might have been a few, now unfortunate short-hands over the years, e.g the 3.6.16 version you are referring to basically is TBP 3.4b run on the 3.6.16 version of Freespace_Open to capitilize on improvement to the multiplayer code. These things happend when "everyone knows what we are talking about".

Knossos has made such detail oriented approaches obsolete however as it automates the distribution process into an (almost) one-click solution for the player.

- on reading some old threat i see mention of a Zathras mod (https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/downloads/zathras-28) and nearly everywhere it was recommended to get it, yet it looks like it's also from several years ago so is it always required on the knossos version ?

Zathras was the result of some internal drama over the fate of the 3.4b version. Basically Zathras was a collection of patches for TBP version 3.4b which were not allowed to call themselves patches or a version 3.5.

It is now obsolete.

- on knossos release there's a training mission and the raider wars campaigns, on the board here (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=57216.0) there's a pack of additional campaigns but looking at the date it seems to be from 2012. So are they still compatible with the knossos release or do they need some work before getting there ?

They will need some work getting there, ranging for the cosmetic to the technical - e.g. stars.tbl which acts a referrence for graphics that get layered onto the skybox (e.g. Planets) was significantly changed. Old missions would as the result of that change appear to only have a blank starfield for a background ( or worse ).

As Knossos doesn't have advanced search and filter criteria yet, it is also a bit difficult to bring old campaigns over to Knossos and have them be easily found.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Robsoie on October 03, 2019, 07:43:50 pm
Thank you for the answers !
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: PIe on October 03, 2019, 09:08:20 pm
Has someone access to the main TBP page to update the info there too?
I'm guessing the only people left who have access are the admins but updating TBP's website would be really helpful.

Also the new freighters' textures are reportedly broken.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 04, 2019, 02:05:14 am
- on knossos release there's a training mission and the raider wars campaigns, on the board here (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=57216.0) there's a pack of additional campaigns but looking at the date it seems to be from 2012. So are they still compatible with the knossos release or do they need some work before getting there ?

They need to be converted manually. Once you finish the Raider Wars, you find some more missions and the two First Ones mini campaigns in my Unofficial Patch here: https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/addons/the-babylon-project-unofficial-patch Sooner or latter the other campaigns will surely be converted for the Knossos version too!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 04, 2019, 05:38:08 am
Will they be released separately or included in the main release?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 04, 2019, 06:03:02 am
Will they be released separately or included in the main release?

Right now my stuff is available separately, but in good time I hope it will end up in the main game.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 04, 2019, 05:52:00 pm
How many hours would it take to complete Raider Wars campaign? I am chatting with SpaceGameJunkie and suggested he do a stream playing it for some exposure.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 04, 2019, 06:09:59 pm
How many hours would it take to complete Raider Wars campaign? I am chatting with SpaceGameJunkie and suggested he do a stream playing it for some exposure.

Raider Wars is adding up to like 8-10 hours, I recall. But TBP always had a bit more difficulty build in compared with other FS_Open content, so your mileage may vary greatly.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 05, 2019, 02:44:11 pm
I posted a screen shot of TBP running on my simpit with my new 4K display on the Facebook B4 room and so far is has 370 likes.  There is a lot of interest.



[attachment eaten by a Shivan]
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 05, 2019, 02:51:56 pm
Anyone seen and English version of this cool page I found?

http://www.kultloesungen.de/doku.php/thebabylonprojectraidere
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Robsoie on October 05, 2019, 04:52:23 pm
You can try a google translated (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kultloesungen.de%2Fdoku.php%2Fthebabylonprojectraidere&sandbox=1) version of that page

Amazing simpit OverDhill !
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 05, 2019, 05:59:46 pm
Also the new freighters' textures are reportedly broken.
I've also noticed some issues with the Starfury MK1 textures.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 05, 2019, 06:52:51 pm
Also the new freighters' textures are reportedly broken.
I've also noticed some issues with the Starfury MK1 textures.

EAM_Aurora_Mk1.pof uses the texture EAM_Aurora which is UVed for the geometry of EAM_Aurora.pof -- which do not overlap as it used to be with Aurora-variants in 3.4b.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: PIe on October 05, 2019, 08:26:39 pm
I'm uploading v3.6.1 with a fix for the Aurora Mk1 and the freighters.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 06, 2019, 01:24:40 am
I'm uploading v3.6.1 with a fix for the Aurora Mk1 and the freighters.

Thanks! Can you also look into the 3D shockwaves problem please?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 06, 2019, 10:07:00 am
Was the Sigma Walkers ship ever included in TBP? I can't find it in the files.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 08, 2019, 02:30:54 pm
Didn't somebody made some HQ interface art a couple years back too?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Col. Fishguts on October 08, 2019, 03:02:29 pm
IIRC nope to both questions.

Someone showed some WIP shots of a Sigma Walkers ship long time ago, but I think it was never released.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 08, 2019, 04:56:15 pm
I've got a complete set of models for the First Ones (including the Walker ship) that I once downloaded from Celestia Addons or something. Later on I realized that they were all the same models used in TBP (as far as I looked at it - identical textures etc), except for that one. If somebody wants to take a look at it and the interface I can throw them on MediaFire.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 08, 2019, 05:23:48 pm
The Walker Ship had some issues with making it work completely as far as I recall - something about limitation on rotating subobjects in FS_Open (the glowing orbs that are part of the ships distinct appearance), which may or may not be current - and as result could not be finished.

Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 09, 2019, 09:13:22 am
I think that should be possible in FSO though.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 09, 2019, 12:45:26 pm
So is anybody here able to finish the Sigma Walker ship? And on a related note, is there actually a mission where all the First Ones ships appear? I know about the Vorlon and Shadow mini campaigns, as I fixed them myself for Knossos, but I can't remember ever seeing the others...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 09, 2019, 01:11:33 pm
The First Ones are difficult to integrate into any scenario - on account how powerful they are supposed to be
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 09, 2019, 01:49:30 pm
So is anybody here able to finish the Sigma Walker ship? And on a related note, is there actually a mission where all the First Ones ships appear? I know about the Vorlon and Shadow mini campaigns, as I fixed them myself for Knossos, but I can't remember ever seeing the others...
AFAIK, it is completed and only needs to be converted to POF. Don't know regarding debris and LODs though as it wasn't made for ingame use.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 09, 2019, 01:51:36 pm
The First Ones are difficult to integrate into any scenario - on account how powerful they are supposed to be

There weapons are probably as powerful as those of the Vorlons and Shadows, atleast that's what I would presume.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 09, 2019, 02:36:27 pm
The First Ones are difficult to integrate into any scenario - on account how powerful they are supposed to be

There weapons are probably as powerful as those of the Vorlons and Shadows, atleast that's what I would presume.

It would have been cool if Mag would have made a Coriana 6 mission for his Star Fury Pilot pack! But then I just looked at the First Ones ships in the technical section and they all look rather bad compared to other TBP models and quite different from how they looked in the show. They all need a makeover, besides the missing Walker ship...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 09, 2019, 03:02:10 pm
OK, having looked at all of them (and loading the 3ds files into TS) I realized that there's massive room for improvement on that part. My guess is that these ships were simply too high poly back then - the Sigma Walker ship has 127k polies, the Krishiac ship 70k (currently 3k), the Triad vessel 54k instead of 9k and some Shadow heavy fighter with 12k instead of 2k. Now they'd be just fine if somebody converted them.
I put that stuff on MediaFire later so tha others can take a look at them.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 09, 2019, 03:17:28 pm
The First Ones are difficult to integrate into any scenario - on account how powerful they are supposed to be

There weapons are probably as powerful as those of the Vorlons and Shadows, atleast that's what I would presume.

It's not about the numbers on the page, each time a First Ones' ship appears in the show it is presented as a force majeure - which is why having them on the field is such a challange; they best serve as background objects that way (much like the Vorlon Planet Killer or the Drakh Mothership)
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 09, 2019, 04:04:07 pm
Still, from the show themselves it's hard to estimate the strength of these ships actually. They blow up the VPK in a single combined strike, yet they don't appear OP besides that. Perhaps their arms are solely made to kill only real big things.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 10, 2019, 05:55:44 pm
I was just looking through the VP files associated with the Zathrus 2.8 package, and I found a couple of Aurora models that appear to be be based on the high-poly model, but reskinned for the PSI Aurora, and another that's listed as the "Line" Aurora, which I assume to be the MK1.  The models in the 3.6 release are 1986 KB for the base model, and 683 KB for the PSI and MK1, while in the Zathrus package, there are said models at 2135 KB.  I compared the standard issue models from both packages, and despite the 150 KB difference, they appear to be the same model.  The Zathrus package also has models for Ivanova, Sinclair, and Sheridan, which I assume are simple reskins, and since you're not gonna have more than one each in a mission, a simple texture replacement in FRED would accomplish the same thing.  In regards to the PSI and MK1 (Line?) models, if they are better than those in the 3.6 release, you may want to swap them out.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 10, 2019, 07:32:38 pm
I would also like to point out that the Star Fury did have maneuvering thrusters (I looked it up on the Wiki) which are possible with the FS engine.  They could be added by changing the ship file  and assigning the binds.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 10, 2019, 07:34:21 pm
It's more of a table job to add maneuvering thrusters, but yes it's possible.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 10, 2019, 07:36:19 pm
Yes.... I added them to one of the ships in FS2 in the past.  It really added to the game
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 11, 2019, 01:42:11 am
Yes.... I added them to one of the ships in FS2 in the past.  It really added to the game

So can you add them to the Star Furies too? I assume this is to get more of the cool strafing effect as shown in the show.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 11, 2019, 08:16:54 am
It was awhile back but from what I remember I changed the x and y parameters of the $Max Velocity section for each ship ($Max Velocity:   22.5, 22.5, 90 for example).  You also need to change it for the afterburner section as well.

$Max Velocity:

    Defines maximum velocities with standard energy settings on x (left/right), y (up/down), and z (forward) -axis (respectively). z -axis velocity defines the maximum forward velocity.
    The x and y velocities are considered slide veocities
    Syntax: Vector, three floats, x-axis, y-axis, z-axis, respectively, meters per second
        Example: 0.0, 0.0, 80.0

I did a quick check and it looks like the TBP ships.tbl already has all the x and y velocities set. 


I re-bound keys to them and it seems to work now.  Not sure why the keys I had bound didn't work but I am glad it is working now.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 11, 2019, 02:19:15 pm
I did a quick check and it looks like the TBP ships.tbl already has all the x and y velocities set. 

If you mean the Star Fury can already slide left/right/up/down you are right of course, but the speed seems to be much slower than forward. So what are the actual values?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 11, 2019, 06:51:56 pm
The standard Star Fury values are $Max Velocity:   22.5, 22.5, 90

I would say they could be upped a little. I did see one problem.  Someone forgot to add the x and y values to the afterburners.  I will try some new values and see if it feels better.  You don't want your slide to be as fast as your forward speed but it does feel a bit sluggish as it stands now. 

I would be interested in hearing what some other people think.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on October 11, 2019, 08:16:29 pm
If you're interested, I can give you SVN access so that you can add those changes to the next release.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 11, 2019, 09:36:23 pm
I did some changes.  Just extract the zip file into the TBP\TBP-3.6.2\data folder to play test it.   These are the ships and values I set them to;

Aurora        $Max Velocity:   30.0, 30.0, 90
      +Aburn Max Vel:   43.5.0, 43.5.0, 130

Aurora MK1   $Max Velocity:   28.25, 28.25, 85
      +Aburn Max Vel:   48.0, 48.0, 145

Badger      $Max Velocity:   27.0, 27.0, 80.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   43.0, 43.0, 130

Thunderbolt   $Max Velocity:   33.0, 33.0, 100.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   46.0, 46.0, 140

Thunderbolt Bomber   $Max Velocity:   30.0, 30.0, 100.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   40.0, 40.0, 130

Tiger      $Max Velocity:   26.0, 26.0, 80.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   41.0, 41.0, 125

Valkyrie      $Max Velocity:   17.5,17.5, 60.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   30.0, 30.0, 120

109 Zephyr   $Max Velocity:   23.75, 23.75, 70.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   35.0, 35.0, 120.0

PSI Aurora   $Max Velocity:   30.5, 30.5, 90.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   44.0, 44.0, 130

PSI Thunderbolt   $Max Velocity:   35.0, 35.0, 100.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   47.0, 47.0, 140

PSI Thunderbolt   $Max Velocity:   30.0, 30.0, 100.0
      #Bomber   +Aburn Max Vel:   40.0, 40.0, 130


Not having played any other campaign except for some of Raider Wars I have flown anything but the Aurora.  I used some estimates as for the others as to what type of fighter it was.  Feel free to play with the values and report back.



[attachment eaten by a Shivan]
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 15, 2019, 10:15:02 pm
Has anyone tried these new settings?  Any feedback?

Also what are some of the other campaigns that should be worked on next.   I understand that Drums of War is being worked on by 0rph3u5
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 16, 2019, 07:16:12 am
Has anyone tried these new settings?

Not yet, but the changes sound reasonable.

Quote
Also what are some of the other campaigns that should be worked on next.

I fixed MAG's Starfury Pilot Missions, his Io Training wing campaign and the Vorlon and Shadow mini campaigns. They are in the SVN 3.5.1 temp folder and I understand that PIe will integrate them into the main mod.

But speaking of the Starfury Pilot Missions, there are two Earth Minbari War missions included, namely the most important ones "In the Beginning" and "The Battle of the Line". As the other original campaign included with TBP was the Earth Minbari War campaign, maybe someone who can actually edit missions could take these two missions and kind of complete this campaign?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 16, 2019, 07:51:22 am
Since I never have played any of the campaigns which ones are the longest and most complete.  When I tell people about this MOD that is one question they ask.

Here is a list of the campaigns I found.

Achen Flight School.......................................by Vidmaster
Dark Children*................................................by Vidmaster
Earth Alliance Training.......................by madaboutgames
Earth Brakiri War.................................by madaboutgames
Fortune Hunters - 2259*................................by Vidmaster
Fortune Hunters - 2260*................................by Vidmaster
Infestation............................................by madaboutgames
Operations.................................................... ...by Vidmaster
Survivor................................................by madaboutgames
Drums of War: Part 1..........................................by 0rph3u5
Drums of War: Part 2..........................................by 0rph3u5
The Black Hand: Episode 1................................by 0rph3u5
Awakening the Beast Demo.............................by 0rph3u5
Star Fury Pilot Single Missions........by madaboutgames
Misc Single Missions.........................by Various Authors

The Babylon Project - Relic v1.0a........by Slasher

In The Name Of The Emperor

Guardian Of Light



Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: starlord on October 16, 2019, 08:56:19 am
The tales of Janus also come to mind by miburo, with a released first chapter and a WIP design doc for the second chapter.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 16, 2019, 01:59:58 pm
Since I never have played any of the campaigns which ones are the longest and most complete.

I don't know, but maybe listing the number of missions helps. Here is what I know sorted alphabetically:

Achen Flight School.........................................by Vidmaster > 1 mission
Awakening the Beast Demo..............................by 0rph3u5
Dark Children..................................................by Vidmaster > 5 missions (fixed for Knossos)
Drums of War: Part 1-3.....................................by 0rph3u5
Earth Alliance Training..........................by madaboutgames > 6 missions (fixed for Knossos)
Earth Brakiri War..................................by madaboutgames > 26 missions
Earth Minbari War............................................by TBP team
Emearon Incident..............................................by Ker.Soth > 8 missions
Fortune Hunters - 2259..................................by Vidmaster
Fortune Hunters - 2260..................................by Vidmaster
Fortune Hunters - 2261..................................by Vidmaster
Guardian Of Light.........................................by Darkmaster > 4 missions (fixed for Knossos)
Infestation...........................................by madaboutgames > 10 missions
In The Name Of The Emperor...............................by Skullar > 3 missions
Operations.................................................... ..by Vidmaster
Raider Wars.....................................................by TBP team > 18 missions (fixed for Knossos)
Relic v1.0a......................................................... .by Slasher
Survivor................................................by madaboutgames > 10 missions
Star Fury Pilot Single Missions..............by madaboutgames > 12 missions (fixed for Knossos)
The Black Hand: Episode 1................................by 0rph3u5
Misc Single Missions...............................by Various Authors



Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 16, 2019, 04:36:37 pm
Just pointing out that the 3D shock wave error is still there
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 16, 2019, 11:16:17 pm
Many, MANY years ago, I began trying to get "In The Beginning" to a polished state.  It seems that it was originally written in Russian (I think), then there was an attempt to translate it into English, but it was very crude.  Sometimes I had to look at what sequence was occuring in the events to understand what the text was supposed to be.  I never finished it, but I still have it in various stages of completion on my hard drive, and I have moved on to various other projects, but I eventually hope to get back to it.

BTW, it was Den5 who is the original creator of the campaign, but missions from the E-M War Demo were incorporated into it.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 17, 2019, 10:53:08 am
Many, MANY years ago, I began trying to get "In The Beginning" to a polished state.

If you mean the sequence in which Sheridan blows the Black Star, MAG has made a nice mission about that for his Star Fury Pilot pack and I already made it work in Knossos. But I don't remember much about the Earth Minbari campaign and it's setting, like who is the player pilot, to know if integrating this would be feasable...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 17, 2019, 05:18:25 pm
"In The Beginning" is a very long campaign, which begins essentially with the encounter between the Prometheus' battlegroup and the Grey Council's fleet, and goes right through to the Battle of the Line, and even includes an epilogue that jumps forward to 2259.  The Sheridan-Black Star engagement is part of the campaign, but it's not MAG's version.  The entire campaign (with the possible exception of the missions adapted from the E-M War Demo) was made by Den5.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 18, 2019, 02:26:44 am
"In The Beginning" is a very long campaign, which begins essentially with the encounter between the Prometheus' battlegroup and the Grey Council's fleet, and goes right through to the Battle of the Line, and even includes an epilogue that jumps forward to 2259.  The Sheridan-Black Star engagement is part of the campaign, but it's not MAG's version.  The entire campaign (with the possible exception of the missions adapted from the E-M War Demo) was made by Den5.

Wow, it would be cool if you could convert that to Knossos :)!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 23, 2019, 12:37:31 am
I was just looking through the VP files associated with the Zathrus 2.8 package, and I found a couple of Aurora models that appear to be be based on the high-poly model, but reskinned for the PSI Aurora, and another that's listed as the "Line" Aurora, which I assume to be the MK1.  The models in the 3.6 release are 1986 KB for the base model, and 683 KB for the PSI and MK1, while in the Zathrus package, there are said models at 2135 KB.  I compared the standard issue models from both packages, and despite the 150 KB difference, they appear to be the same model.  The Zathrus package also has models for Ivanova, Sinclair, and Sheridan, which I assume are simple reskins, and since you're not gonna have more than one each in a mission, a simple texture replacement in FRED would accomplish the same thing.  In regards to the PSI and MK1 (Line?) models, if they are better than those in the 3.6 release, you may want to swap them out.
I just finished testing out said high-detail Aurora MK1 and Psi Aurora, and they both appear to work fine, once I switched to the correct spelling for the debris texture.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 23, 2019, 07:51:49 am
Thats great. Can we get those changes to karajorma?   Hopefully we can get the changes uploaded for Knossos along with the new ship tavble to support strafing.  That and include the work wesp5 has done for the Star Furry pack missions.

Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 23, 2019, 07:13:18 pm
Who did The Earth Minbari War Demo?  B5-C-sp-EMW-3_0.vp I believe is the file. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: hip63 on October 23, 2019, 07:57:55 pm

hip63
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: PIe on October 24, 2019, 11:56:12 am
To sum up, improvements/fixes to include so far are:
Shockwave error
Hi-poly Aurora Mk1 and Psi (do you have a link?)
Wesp's campaigns
Am I missing anything?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 24, 2019, 12:19:34 pm
To sum up, improvements/fixes to include so far are:
Shockwave error
Hi-poly Aurora Mk1 and Psi (do you have a link?)
Wesp's campaigns
Am I missing anything?

Please add the changes I made to the ship table (above) to allow vertical and horizontal strafing
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: cloneof on October 24, 2019, 12:31:49 pm
Hi! Love the fact that this fantastic game still keeps getting the community love it deserves.

So after some time, I got the Knossos working on Manjaro linux distro. Had a blast with the game, although my Intel HD of course has a harder time drawing those fancy 3d animations. But I was wondering, does anyone know if the Linux version the game even have that fascinating level/campaign editor? Was looking around the main folder and (surprise) while I didn't  find any .exe files, I certainly didn't find anything resembling a clickable FRED. I remember looking at it back in the day in utter confusion and though I would give it a nostalgic run.

Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 24, 2019, 05:36:34 pm
The Hi-Poly Aurora MK1 and Psi Aurora are both in the Zathrus 2.8 release that can be found in the Public Development subforum.  Within the download, you can find them in the Z_Advanced VP file.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 25, 2019, 03:51:14 am
What is the best VP editors to use when dealing with older VP's on Windows 7 64 bit?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 25, 2019, 04:23:39 pm
I've used VP-Mage and QuickVP, but there's also VPCS2.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 25, 2019, 06:21:08 pm
To sum up, improvements/fixes to include so far are:
Shockwave error
Hi-poly Aurora Mk1 and Psi (do you have a link?)
Wesp's campaigns
Am I missing anything?

I ran RW with Debug with a nightly and had some errors and a crash.



[attachment eaten by a Shivan]
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 25, 2019, 07:58:03 pm
What is the best VP editors to use when dealing with older VP's on Windows 7 64 bit?

Using the same ones as Trivial Psychic.
Complete list: https://www.freespacemods.net/#cat_51
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 27, 2019, 05:34:22 pm
I've used VP-Mage and QuickVP, but there's also VPCS2.

Do you have a working link for VPCS2? I tried VPmage and QuickVP and while I was able to edit VPs with the latter, the voice files got messed up...

P.S.: I just found it here: http://www.fs2downloads.com/Downloads/vpcs2.zip, but it can't even open TBP VPs, so for now only QuickVP does work.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: tomimaki on October 29, 2019, 03:23:25 pm
Hi! Love the fact that this fantastic game still keeps getting the community love it deserves.

So after some time, I got the Knossos working on Manjaro linux distro. Had a blast with the game, although my Intel HD of course has a harder time drawing those fancy 3d animations. But I was wondering, does anyone know if the Linux version the game even have that fascinating level/campaign editor? Was looking around the main folder and (surprise) while I didn't  find any .exe files, I certainly didn't find anything resembling a clickable FRED. I remember looking at it back in the day in utter confusion and though I would give it a nostalgic run.
There is qtFRED but you must compile it yourself and editor is still in WiP (https://github.com/scp-fs2open/fs2open.github.com/projects/3)
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: cloneof on November 01, 2019, 08:32:00 am
Hi! Love the fact that this fantastic game still keeps getting the community love it deserves.

So after some time, I got the Knossos working on Manjaro linux distro. Had a blast with the game, although my Intel HD of course has a harder time drawing those fancy 3d animations. But I was wondering, does anyone know if the Linux version the game even have that fascinating level/campaign editor? Was looking around the main folder and (surprise) while I didn't  find any .exe files, I certainly didn't find anything resembling a clickable FRED. I remember looking at it back in the day in utter confusion and though I would give it a nostalgic run.
There is qtFRED but you must compile it yourself and editor is still in WiP (https://github.com/scp-fs2open/fs2open.github.com/projects/3)

Thank you! I'm glad to know that I just wasn't completely blind.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: praseodym on November 25, 2019, 02:15:48 pm
Wohoo. Dled, however it crashes with the recommended standard 3.8.0 build under Ubuntu 16.04 (Knossos not working there). Using wxlauncher, I am running in a lot of errors.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: praseodym on November 25, 2019, 02:36:58 pm
Ok, seems to work with the 3.7.4 self-compiled one. Just adding all the other mods as usual?! Can I just c/p them from the "old" folder?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on December 09, 2019, 04:06:29 pm
- on knossos release there's a training mission and the raider wars campaigns, on the board here (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=57216.0) there's a pack of additional campaigns but looking at the date it seems to be from 2012. So are they still compatible with the knossos release or do they need some work before getting there ?

They need to be converted manually. Once you finish the Raider Wars, you find some more missions and the two First Ones mini campaigns in my Unofficial Patch here: https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/addons/the-babylon-project-unofficial-patch Sooner or latter the other campaigns will surely be converted for the Knossos version too!

Did these ever make it into the Knossos downloads yet?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on December 09, 2019, 04:07:02 pm
https://youtu.be/PW5U5E-7gt4
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on December 28, 2019, 08:43:35 pm
Is this MOD dead?  Doesn't seem to be any new activity lately.   I hope not
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on December 28, 2019, 09:41:45 pm
It's probably not being worked on right now. That doesn't mean that could change at some future point. For example it has been 6 years or so since the latest Zathras release and 3.6.0.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Iain Baker on December 29, 2019, 10:28:39 am
Do we know when / if the other campaigns will be ported over, such as Dark Children (play as a shadow fighter) and the one you play as a Vorlon?Those were superb :-)

Hint - when playing as a vorlon going up against the centauri primus, park yourself in its fighter bay. When the wings of four fighters spawn in a line neat little line fire your beam gun - it will overpenetrate and skewer all in one go before they even leave the ship  :cool:
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on December 29, 2019, 12:40:31 pm
I don't know how much has been changed since the latest Zathras release (which had the campaigns included) and 3-6-0. You can just go ahead and look if stuff is broken.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on December 29, 2019, 12:51:06 pm
Do we know when / if the other campaigns will be ported over, such as Dark Children (play as a shadow fighter) and the one you play as a Vorlon? Those were superb :-)

I love the First Ones campaigns too and as I correctly supected that it would take time to include them, you can find them converted for 3.6 in my Unofficial Patch:
https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/addons/the-babylon-project-unofficial-patch
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Iain Baker on December 29, 2019, 02:07:29 pm
Do we know when / if the other campaigns will be ported over, such as Dark Children (play as a shadow fighter) and the one you play as a Vorlon? Those were superb :-)

I love the First Ones campaigns too and as I correctly supected that it would take time to include them, you can find them converted for 3.6 in my Unofficial Patch:
https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/addons/the-babylon-project-unofficial-patch

Superb, thank you so much :-)

Just one quick question - can you tell me where the knossos version of TBP 'lives', as its not with the other mods. Looking through the folders it looks like the BSG and Wing Commader mods don't live there either, so I assume they get placed somewhere else. Any ideas?

Cheers :-)
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on December 29, 2019, 02:36:48 pm
Just one quick question - can you tell me where the knossos version of TBP 'lives', as its not with the other mods.

What do you mean? It should be listed like all the other mods in the Knossos launcher. Or is it still listed as a beta?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on December 30, 2019, 06:45:05 am
I love the First Ones campaigns too and as I correctly supected that it would take time to include them, you can find them converted for 3.6 in my Unofficial Patch:
https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/addons/the-babylon-project-unofficial-patch

I'm going to ask again, why the **** are you working against us by making unofficial patches that will **** up the Knossos install for people when it's obvious that we really need more people to work on the Knossos releases? You have SVN access! You have Beta access! You have all the tools necessary to do this the right way! Why are you insisting on doing things in a way that will cause people who have installed TBP on Knossos problems when we do get around to doing another release? Why are you expending time and effort on doing things the wrong way?

I simply don't get it.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on December 30, 2019, 10:41:16 am
I'm going to ask again, why the **** are you working against us by making unofficial patches that will **** up the Knossos install for people when it's obvious that we really need more people to work on the Knossos releases? You have SVN access! You have Beta access!

I have uploaded all these files a long time ago to SVN and you never bothered to add them to the main release, so I went ahead and updated the patch! If you want me to get rid of the patch, JUST ADD THE DAMN FILES WHICH YOU HAD ACCESS TO FOR AGES!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Iain Baker on December 30, 2019, 03:02:05 pm
Just one quick question - can you tell me where the knossos version of TBP 'lives', as its not with the other mods.

What do you mean? It should be listed like all the other mods in the Knossos launcher. Or is it still listed as a beta?

Its on the Knossos launcher ok, but the folders for it and some of the other non-FS campaigns do not appear to live with the others - see the attached screenshots. If I can't find the folders then I can't add the patch to them.

PS - thank you for doing this - and the hard work you have put into getting VTMB working :-)

[attachment eaten by a Shivan]
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on December 30, 2019, 08:25:01 pm
You probably can put the patches into the main FS install, hopefully (just don't forget to remove them). Use windows/whatever search to find stuff, unless you're on Discord you'll most likely find it yourself quicker than to wait for an awnser.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on December 30, 2019, 10:18:25 pm
As far as I recall when you run the patch it asks whether you have the Classic or Knossos.  If your using Knossos just point it to the FreespaceOpen/TBP-3.6.2  folder first then choose Knossos patch. It should install the files in the data folder under TBP-3.6.2 folder.  Unless someone can add these to Knossos.

Not sure about the confusion concerning adding these to the official release but I do not know how to use the SVN to push files up to Knossos so I cannot say.  For now I added them with the patch to play around with them.  So far they seem to be working well.


Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on December 31, 2019, 02:49:09 am
As far as I recall when you run the patch it asks whether you have the Classic Knossos.

It asks whether you have classic or Knossos as I just updated my old patch until the missions were included into the main Knossos game.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on December 31, 2019, 11:47:55 pm
I have uploaded all these files a long time ago to SVN and you never bothered to add them to the main release, so I went ahead and updated the patch! If you want me to get rid of the patch, JUST ADD THE DAMN FILES WHICH YOU HAD ACCESS TO FOR AGES!

You literally have access so that you can add them yourself. We held off on adding stuff for the first release. But now that it is out, you can add them. You don't have to wait for me to do anything. Just do it. Test it. Release it. I'm pretty sure I told you that earlier, which is why the whole unofficial patch is annoying. You have another way to release it. There is absolutely no reason you have to do it this way!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 01, 2020, 02:57:54 am
I have uploaded all these files a long time ago to SVN and you never bothered to add them to the main release, so I went ahead and updated the patch! If you want me to get rid of the patch, JUST ADD THE DAMN FILES WHICH YOU HAD ACCESS TO FOR AGES!

You literally have access so that you can add them yourself. We held off on adding stuff for the first release. But now that it is out, you can add them. You don't have to wait for me to do anything. Just do it. Test it. Release it.

Sorry, but I removed the whole SVN beta setup when the main version came out because I thought I won't need it anymore. Also I wasn't aware that everybody would be able to add stuff to the main release and I wouldn't know how either. So please you do it! People are obviously waiting ;)...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on January 01, 2020, 05:48:56 am
Than why not re DL it? Sure it takes a while but I doubt that Kara will do that for you.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 01, 2020, 10:34:10 am
Than why not re DL it? Sure it takes a while but I doubt that Kara will do that for you.

Sorry, but if you expect everybody to upload their own campaigns the main project will never get finished! Or it will get completely messed up. I thought kara was the guy who maintained the final release version...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on January 01, 2020, 10:44:36 am
I just had the impression that you already had the files and only had to put them on SVN.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 01, 2020, 02:26:32 pm
I just had the impression that you already had the files and only had to put them on SVN.

My files are in the Temp_Folder folder of the SVN repository since over a year! Karajorma and OverDhill promised to add them to the main game months ago, but just never did...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on January 01, 2020, 02:53:09 pm
If that stuff has already been tested it shouldn't be too much work.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on January 01, 2020, 06:19:06 pm
Sorry, but if you expect everybody to upload their own campaigns the main project will never get finished! Or it will get completely messed up. I thought kara was the guy who maintained the final release version...

Given how busy I've been lately, if you expect me to do it, it will never get released either.

If it works, if it's been tested, if it doesn't break the game, put it in the release folder. And if the answer to any of those things isn't true, why the hell is it being released unofficially?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on January 01, 2020, 06:21:16 pm
Just for the record I never said I would as I do not know how.  I have just been trying to keep an interest on this MOD. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on January 01, 2020, 07:15:49 pm
If you're interested in learning, we could give you access. To be honest, the biggest thing we need is people who want to playtest.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 02, 2020, 03:42:14 am
I don't have access to my PC right now, but maybe when I'm home again, I'll reinstall SVN. But I'm busy with the Bloodlines patch too and I thought you could do this much faster than anybody else who first must learn it. Like I have no idea how to move anything inside a SVN repository, but all missions are tested and work...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 07, 2020, 01:14:59 pm
Okay, so I wanted to try to move my stuff into the main data folder, but using the old SVN link and login karajorma gave me long ago only gives me access to TBP 3.5.1 which I guess is completely outdated by now. My stuff is already in the temp folder there, how do we get it into the 3.6.2 release? The beta version is also gone from Knossos...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on January 10, 2020, 08:20:39 pm
It's still the same folder. It just needs to be renamed. Try it now. You should have a TBP 3.6.3 folder instead.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 11, 2020, 02:37:05 am
Great! I am uploading all of my stuff to the data folder now, where it is on my system too. But man, upload is slow! Do I need to do something else afterwards for it to be visible in the main game or is this all?

P.S.: Damn, TortoiseSVN is so stupid :(! I had uploaded almost all my stuff when I noticed a file that should not be uploaded, so I removed it locally. SVN stopped with an error and EVERYTHING ELSE THAT I UPLOADED WAS LOST! It can't upload multiple files either. I don't have time for another try this weekend, so I'll continue next week...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on January 11, 2020, 07:52:07 am
Yeah, that wasn't a smart move. You should have just uploaded it and then deleted it afterwards. But SVN has a bunch of gotchas that you only learn the hard way.

Once it's up we can check it works and then release it.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on January 11, 2020, 11:33:54 pm
My setup

[attachment eaten by a Shivan]
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 15, 2020, 04:01:49 pm
Once it's up we can check it works and then release it.

So, everything has been uploaded! What has to be done for this to be released now?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on January 17, 2020, 07:43:02 am
Testing. i.e does it work? If you're sure it does, we can push this out.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 17, 2020, 08:05:08 am
Testing. i.e does it work? If you're sure it does, we can push this out.

I'm pretty sure it works. I tested the same files manually with my Knossos version...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 30, 2020, 02:33:57 am
I have just created a fresh Knossos TBP installation and my stuff is still not available. Please release it!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 03, 2020, 11:05:16 pm
I'm trying to but Knossos won't install on my travel laptop running Linux so I'm going to have to wait till I get back to my Windows machine. I should be going back tomorrow but Coronavirus means that's not certain.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 13, 2020, 01:32:08 am
Alright, I finally had a chance to go through this and I've noticed that you appear to have vp files in the data folder. I can't remember if we said we'd just update the main folders or have each campaign in its own folder. But VPs in the main data folder is definitely wrong. Ideally, the only files that should be there are the movies and Freddocs.

Also if anything replaces an existing file, it should replace it (unlike the ships.tbl which is in data). Does that file have priority now? To be honest, I don't know.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 13, 2020, 02:45:16 am
Alright, I finally had a chance to go through this and I've noticed that you appear to have vp files in the data folder.

So where do the vps go, into the main folder? Can you just move them there or do I need to upload them again?

Quote
I can't remember if we said we'd just update the main folders or have each campaign in its own folder.

It would be cool if we could do subfolders, but with the old TBP it wasn't possible as far as I remember.

Quote
Also if anything replaces an existing file, it should replace it (unlike the ships.tbl which is in data). Does that file have priority now? To be honest, I don't know.

I don't think I added a tbl file...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 13, 2020, 02:57:41 am
I added the ships.tbl and mentioned awhile back that it needs to replace the original one inside the VP.  The only things that was changed in it was to add the strafing values on the ships. So feel free to do so. 

I added it to the data folder for testing purposes. 

As for wesp5's files I am not sure about the arrangement and file locations for single missions.  I presume maybe they should be in their own VP file added to the root folder.  I know how to extract a file from a VP file but not sure how to make a VP file from a collection of files.  The other way it seems would be to add a separate folder having it own json files showing up under Knossos as a unique icon to run to get to these in the game.  I see this was done for missions added in the GOTY addon. 

I can't speak for wesp5 but I think we could use some directions to keep things the way they should be and I personally would like to know how to do things for future  help with projects (like creating VP files and/or new json files).
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 13, 2020, 11:17:05 am
You should never add a VP file ever. Knossos makes them itself when a mod in development is uploaded. So loose files always.

The question is whether we want to release every TBP mod as a separate mod (which will require users to find them all on the available mods page and download them separately). Or if we want to make TBP a single download (much more convenient) If we do decide on a single mod, we then need to decide if we have knossos make a VP file for each mod, whether we should have it make a non-core VP file every add-on campaign that exists, or whether we should just stick all the mods in core and be done with it. :p

Each method has merits and possible pitfalls when it comes to how FS2_Open decides which files have precedence.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 13, 2020, 11:30:52 am
That was informative.   Since there seems to be a very limited number of missions and campaigns I would think to just either add them to the core or make an additions vp pack.  I would think most people would not like a separate mod to download and find.

Thanks for you support
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 13, 2020, 01:45:05 pm
Since there seems to be a very limited number of missions and campaigns I would think to just either add them to the core or make an additions vp pack.

I agree with that! So can you turn my files into a core vp, karajorma? Because Knossos certainly didn't do it when I used SVN to upload my files. The disadvantage that I see to this approach is that if we find a bug, we always need to rebuild the affected vp...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on February 13, 2020, 02:26:23 pm
I think it's better to have everything as a single DL as it's the easiest way to distribute content. Still, you have to figure out which campaigns are good and which bad but since Knossos doesn't have a rating system you'd have to do that anyway.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on February 14, 2020, 07:28:32 am
Re: Splitting off mods per download

Can I just point out that intregrating mods might be more difficult process as time goes on; yes, a lot of the content for the TBP in terms of missions is old and doesn't require much of mods onto the core package, I can happened to run into the situation when this

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/471333306630144031/677867643406909452/tables.png)

is the current state of tables for Drums of War.

I don't want burden you with figuring out how to integrate these changes into the Core, so for that at least, making a seperate sub-mod to TBP on Knossos seems a no-brainer..
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 14, 2020, 08:14:28 am
I think the best middle ground is to say that all mods which don't require a table file should be in the main download, and anything which alters the tables can be a separate download. Once Knossos implements filtering it will be pretty easy to only see TBP mods anyway.

So now the question is, do we want a separate vp for mods which don't use tables, or should everything go in the core folders?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 14, 2020, 08:44:07 am
I would do a separate VP for those mods so they can be easily identified and fixes of necessary later on.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 14, 2020, 11:18:04 am
I would do a separate VP for those mods so they can be easily identified and fixes of necessary later on.

Okay, so coming back to my files, this would mean the vps need to be moved into the core folder, but the single files, which are in fact my fixes as I too don't know how to create a vp file, can stay in the data folder, correct? So if somebody would please move the vps we would have three new campaigns and many single missions :)!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 14, 2020, 12:27:50 pm
I am going to take a stab at this (still learning so be kind to me).   :-)

Getting a glimpse as to how this might need to be setup.  Looking at the file structure in SVN I think any of the added campaigns should be put into separate folders (with the names of each campaign) with any files needed for that campaign. Knossos will then create a VP out of that folder.  For all the single missions if I recall were part of the Star Fury package so put all of them into a folder called Star Fury Pilot.   As for the fixes (which I am not sure what files they are) I would think if they fix the game itself then they would go into the core VPs.  My ships.tlb should just replace the one in the core as it just adds strafing and no other changes.

Does this sound about right?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 14, 2020, 12:49:00 pm
Also any significant campaigns released in the future would have their own package as addons and show up in Knossos separately.

Does this sound reasonable?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 14, 2020, 09:54:34 pm
Knossos will create VP files if you use the +Package option from Modify Mod on the Development tab. That option allows you to specify the name of the package and creates all the relevant folders for you. Then you add those folders in SVN.

Things are a little fiddly cause we're basically using two versioning systems. SVN and Knossos. But in general, it works well.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 14, 2020, 10:11:41 pm
I don't have mod manager permissions for Knossos (I do have a Nebulas account).  I think wookiejedi will help me some so I am willing to learn. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 14, 2020, 11:29:59 pm
What's your knossos login? I'll just give you access then.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 15, 2020, 10:13:50 am
Mine is OverDhill on Nebula
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 16, 2020, 09:10:40 am
Added you to the team.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 16, 2020, 12:12:18 pm
Should the TBP show up under the Develop Tab in Knossos?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 17, 2020, 10:41:37 am
Yes. I'm not sure what will happen if you already have a non-developer version though.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 17, 2020, 10:55:38 am
I will delete and redownload it?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 17, 2020, 11:10:46 am
I delete TBD and then reloaded Knossos and went to Explore tab and it does not show up and still nothing under Deveop
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 17, 2020, 12:11:58 pm
wookiejedi helped me figure it out. Had to delete the knossos folder in appdata.  Now I see TBP in the Develop tab.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on February 24, 2020, 03:29:41 am
Is there a change log somewhere for the 3.6.2 -> 3.6.3 update?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 24, 2020, 04:21:51 am
After we get the upload error fixed I will do one.  It was mostly adding in some campaigns and Star Fury Pilot missions.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 24, 2020, 06:47:43 am
I get an error after installing TBP 3.6.3 that suggests to restart Knossos. After I do I get a missing cursor bitmap error when trying to start TBP so I can't even run it!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 24, 2020, 09:02:26 am
Yes there is an issue with Knossos right now.  Not sure who is working on it. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 24, 2020, 10:19:13 am
Any idea what caused the problem? I managed to check out all the changes from SVN so I might be able to look at things tomorrow.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 24, 2020, 02:28:07 pm
Well wookieejedi told me to just re-upload until I get the metadata message.  So not it is updated and after a couple attempts it is installed on my laptop and working (different machine).

So now on to the next campaign to fix. LOL
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 24, 2020, 03:52:14 pm
Here is what 3.6.32 contains now

Full Campaigns that have been updated

Achen Schooling Flight
TBP Relic
Dark Children
Earth Minbarii War Demo
Guardian of Light
Infestation
IO Training Wing
Raider Wars
Survivor

Single Missions that have been updated

A Distant Star
And Now For A Word
A View From The Gallery
A Voice In The Wilderness
The Fall Of Night
In The Beginning
Points of Departure
Severed Dreams
Shadow Dancing
Signs and Portants
The Battle Of The Line
The Long Twilight Struggle

Huge credit goes to the original authors and a thanks to wesp5 for his work in updating some campaigns and also including the Star Fury Pilot files.



Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Iain Baker on February 24, 2020, 05:26:53 pm
 :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 25, 2020, 11:59:41 am
Sorry, but after the 3.6.32 update done inside of Knossos I get an error message that the executable is missing, so this still does not work! Checking the folders, I don't find any core vp files as well. Is something going wrong with the update?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 25, 2020, 01:16:04 pm
Just pick a nightly or RC3.   
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 26, 2020, 02:26:08 am
Just pick a nightly or RC3.   

So there are no core vps in this release anymore?

P.S.: Finally got it to work, I just needed to have the FSO button update :)! Maybe TBP could automatically do this or at least suggest to do so instead of giving an error that an exe is missing?
Also good to finally see all my stuff on Knossos. It seems you went the road to not use vps at all, as it looks to me that all data has been extracted! Fine with me, then it will be easier to fix...

Speaking of which, I noticed that an Infestation mission has somehow made it into the single missions. This might be an error in the campaign order, as that mission is never mentioned there!
So how is determined if a mission is a single mission or part of a campaign? How can the campaign be fixed to include that mission again? The name of the misplaces mission is "5 bonus 4.fs2".

P.P.S.: I think I fixed the above issue by editing the campaign file in a way that seems reasonable to me. Somebody would need to test the whole campaign and then upload the fixed file! Or is
there an easy way that I could do that myself using Knossos itself and not falling back to SVN where somebody else would need to move or autorisize the file? I saw some typos to fix as well!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 26, 2020, 06:52:40 am
Okay, that sounds like something went wrong with the upload. Everything should be in a VP file for people who aren't working in development.

Sounds like we need to bump the required version of FS2_Open as well.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 26, 2020, 06:58:23 am
Yes Knossos is still having issues with uploading.  I have to re-upload several times and finally got it to work un-packed.  Hopefully the next release will have better luck with Knossos.

Also yes it has been easier for people that are helping fix and improve things to edit and send me their changes.  I am working on the 3.7.0 release that will have a lot of small improvements, some fixes and a couple new campaigns/missions.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 26, 2020, 08:14:56 am
Also yes it has been easier for people that are helping fix and improve things to edit and send me their changes.

Okay, I'll PM you my files once I am ready. Right now I fixed all text errors in MAGs Infestation campaign, maybe I will find time this evening to play it and check the mission order!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on February 26, 2020, 10:05:32 am
In order to avoid duplicate work:

I've fixed the skybox reference is Earth-Minbari War Demo and Relic, as well as texture-replacements on the Novas and Omegas.

I am going to have a look at the scan distance of EA Freighter 1 & 2 (it seems kind iffy that they don't seem to be scannable for except from very specifc angles).
I am also taking on the Aurora (tabled thrusters look to off their locations on the model) as well as bringing the Mk 1- and Psi-variants in line with standard Aurora-model wise. (I have the maps, just need run them through the engine really quick).
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 26, 2020, 12:11:02 pm
In order to avoid duplicate work:

Same here, I went over MAGs Infestation and Survivor campaigns fixing text issues as he certainly is not a native speaker or makes a lot of typos ;)! Speaking of text, I also improved some campaign names and can we please change "Continue" on the main screen to "Play Campaign" and "Campaign" to "Select Campaign" to make their usage clearer?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 26, 2020, 12:30:50 pm
Feel free to send me any changes.  Discord would be the preferred place. I will add them to 3.7.0 build that I am working on. I have spent hours fixing names, ect.  We will be getting a couple new campaigns.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on February 27, 2020, 12:07:28 am
It is good to see activity with TBP.  Release 3.7.0 is coming along with a lot of small bug fixes, enhancements and a whole lot more content that has been updated.

Is there any of you FREDers that might want to create any new missions or campaigns? 
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 27, 2020, 02:22:00 am
I have two common suggestions I would like to see in 3.7.0, but which I don't know how to tackle:

1) Can we please change the main screen "Continue" button to "Play Campaign", and the "Campaign" button to "Select Campaign"? Right now this is rather confusing for all new players.

2) Can we please make HUD strings using capitals? It's looking really stupid in combination with mission updates and similar where they are used! Like "directives", "weapons", and so on.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on February 27, 2020, 03:56:42 am
Aurora fixes are submitted

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/471333306630144031/682514495326650405/Mk1.png?width=608&height=684) (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/471333306630144031/682514564075487258/PSI.png?width=608&height=684)

I also had the appropriate Presidential Escorts maps in my backup, added them to the submission as well.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: emi_100 on February 27, 2020, 07:41:59 am
Aurora fixes are submitted

I also had the appropriate Presidential Escorts maps in my backup, added them to the submission as well.

nice!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: emi_100 on February 27, 2020, 09:41:10 am
Love to see thing are moving arround here  :)
All this inspired me to do the Sigma Walker from the stratch (still WIP), compatible and optimized for TBP.
I need anybody to help me do the proper hardpoints and tables.
(https://i.imgur.com/bK2Q9Ev.jpg)
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on February 27, 2020, 10:05:17 am
Amazing work :eek:
Did you completely scrap the old model? It wasn't what I'd call "underdetailed"...

One side thing- wasn't that one of the things you already upgraded and converted?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: emi_100 on February 27, 2020, 10:43:28 am
Amazing work :eek:
Did you completely scrap the old model? It wasn't what I'd call "underdetailed"...

One side thing- wasn't that one of the things you already upgraded and converted?
The old model  had some serius problems: geometry holes, and in game, TBP showed some warning or error message when start the game (i can't remember wich one but it had to do with geometry).
And it was really poly heavy, it caused some FPS drops, and all the textures were still.
I have some new ideas for this one ;)

thanks for the compliments as always :)
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on February 27, 2020, 10:44:14 am
Well that's double sweet than :nod:
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Su-tehp on February 27, 2020, 12:06:06 pm
What that Walker of Sigma 957 ship needs is a White Star beside it for scale comparison.

Quote
Marcus: It's leaving. My guess is "zog" means "no".
Ivanova: Like hell. I am not letting them leave here without saying yes.
Marcus: Really? And how do you propose stopping them? Perhaps a big red and white sign with the word "stop" on it? ...I'll put a bucket on my head and pretend to be the ancient Vorlon god Boogee.
Ivanova: [gets an idea] That's it!
Marcus: Fine, I'll get a bucket!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on February 27, 2020, 01:32:54 pm
*image snip*

I see you are taking the walking-theme very seriously.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: emi_100 on February 27, 2020, 03:26:23 pm
What that Walker of Sigma 957 ship needs is a White Star beside it for scale comparison.
We'll have to wait until the Walker of Sigma is in game  :)


Quote
Marcus: It's leaving. My guess is "zog" means "no".
...
Ivanova: [gets an idea] That's it!
Marcus: Fine, I'll get a bucket!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:D


I see you are taking the walking-theme very seriously.
All that bones were the original idea of the "walker" thing. Very abstract  :lol:
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on February 27, 2020, 08:11:03 pm
Insert "Vorlons are better" :D
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 27, 2020, 09:43:47 pm
I have two common suggestions I would like to see in 3.7.0, but which I don't know how to tackle:

1) Can we please change the main screen "Continue" button to "Play Campaign", and the "Campaign" button to "Select Campaign"? Right now this is rather confusing for all new players.

That would require changing the interface art. I'm fine with changing it, I just don't have the skills either.

Quote
2) Can we please make HUD strings using capitals? It's looking really stupid in combination with mission updates and similar where they are used! Like "directives", "weapons", and so on.

I'm not certain I understand the problem. Are we talking about something we can solve by just editing strings.tbl?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on February 28, 2020, 02:06:14 am
I have two common suggestions I would like to see in 3.7.0, but which I don't know how to tackle:

1) Can we please change the main screen "Continue" button to "Play Campaign", and the "Campaign" button to "Select Campaign"? Right now this is rather confusing for all new players.

That would require changing the interface art. I'm fine with changing it, I just don't have the skills either.

Quote
2) Can we please make HUD strings using capitals? It's looking really stupid in combination with mission updates and similar where they are used! Like "directives", "weapons", and so on.

I'm not certain I understand the problem. Are we talking about something we can solve by just editing strings.tbl?

I have an idea about 1) and I am going to look into 2) later

I am also taking on post_processing.tbl
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 28, 2020, 02:25:22 am
I have two common suggestions I would like to see in 3.7.0, but which I don't know how to tackle:

1) Can we please change the main screen "Continue" button to "Play Campaign", and the "Campaign" button to "Select Campaign"? Right now this is rather confusing for all new players.

That would require changing the interface art. I'm fine with changing it, I just don't have the skills either.

Quote
2) Can we please make HUD strings using capitals? It's looking really stupid in combination with mission updates and similar where they are used! Like "directives", "weapons", and so on.

I'm not certain I understand the problem. Are we talking about something we can solve by just editing strings.tbl?

I have an idea about 1) and I am going to look into 2) later

Great! Then I will not do anything about this until I hear back from you. If some graphic editing is needed for 1), I could do it. If 2) involves just some text editing in strings.tbl, it should be very easy!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on February 28, 2020, 04:05:35 am
So, this?

With HUG Gauge scaling disabled:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/471333306630144031/682889370180517908/screen0311.png)

With HUD Gauge scaling enabled: (aka TBP's default)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/471333306630144031/682889375755010068/screen0312.png)

As it gets the contents of the directives-box and the wing names in the Wingmen-box from the mission file, nothing I can do on the level of the strings.tbl.1

Now if these are okay, some edits need to be made to hud_gauages.tbl to alter the position of some text strings (see the "DMG" in the targeting window) ... which TBP does not have.2

1 - Can we use this opportunity to include wookiejedi's custom wingmen gauge by default? (Link (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95180.0))
2 - Can we use this opportunity to include Axem's message box gauge by default? (Link (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=87791.0))
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 28, 2020, 06:27:56 am
So, this?

Looks great!

Quote
Now if these are okay, some edits need to be made to hud_gauages.tbl to alter the position of some text strings (see the "DMG" in the targeting window) ... which TBP does not have.2

If TBP does not have DMG, can you just change this to " "?

Quote
1 - Can we use this opportunity to include wookiejedi's custom wingmen gauge by default? (Link (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95180.0))
2 - Can we use this opportunity to include Axem's message box gauge by default? (Link (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=87791.0))

Hm, from looking at the links I don't think I like these changes...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: emi_100 on February 28, 2020, 07:03:28 am
Now if these are okay, some edits need to be made to hud_gauages.tbl to alter the position of some text strings (see the "DMG" in the targeting window) ... which TBP does not have.2

1 - Can we use this opportunity to include wookiejedi's custom wingmen gauge by default? (Link (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95180.0))
2 - Can we use this opportunity to include Axem's message box gauge by default? (Link (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=87791.0))

All this changes looks great to me!  :yes:
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on February 28, 2020, 07:11:50 am
Quote
Now if these are okay, some edits need to be made to hud_gauages.tbl to alter the position of some text strings (see the "DMG" in the targeting window) ... which TBP does not have.2

If TBP does not have DMG, can you just change this to " "?

To clarify: TBP does not have hud_gauges.tbl (and so falls back to the FS2 retail defaults for positions of HUD elements). If it had, it would be trivial to adjust the position of the text strings that currently look a bit off position.
But if a hud_gauges.tbl were introduced, it would be backbone to do additional changes, such as a longer escort and directives list (which was in Zathras at one point) and improved scaling of the HUD for high resolutions.

Also, having a hud_gauges.tbl would provide a frame work for custom HUD gauges - somebody might want to take advantage of that  ;)

Quote
1 - Can we use this opportunity to include wookiejedi's custom wingmen gauge by default?
2 - Can we use this opportunity to include Axem's message box gauge by default?

Hm, from looking at the links I don't think I like these changes...

Case for 1:

wookiejedi's scripted gauge gets the entire name of wing and displays it, instead of the usual first 3 letters:

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/471333306630144031/682931181158662144/screen0277.png)
(its an older WIP shot, so it is not perfection - both in terms of position and brightness compared to the rest of the HUD)

This is a big boon for campaigns with non-standard wing names, like my Drums of War. Additionally the gauge provides more detailed information. Some adjustments need to be made because the non-retail "gunship"-type exists in TBP.


Case for 2:

Axem's message box provides a much better visual indicator that a message has been recieved; say nothing about improving readability of the message itself. In campaigns that don't have voice acting, curcial messages being missed is long-standing problem (the comm-beep can only take so far), which gets worse with increasing resolution pushing the 2-3 lines on top of the screen further into the territory of the peripheral vision, which is an issue to not a small number of people.

It's position can be adjusted ... BP has it between radar and reticle, BtA has it in the top left corner, I like to put it between the damage report and the reticle (that I have not added it to Drums of War is because of the absence of hud_gauges.tbl - neat, how that comes back around :) ).
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wookieejedi on February 28, 2020, 09:50:14 am
I’ll note that the wingmen gauge can also be configured to be in two different views, and the placement and other options can be specified or changed in the user settings section of the script file. For some additional info: The gauge shows a clear separation of in-mission, destroyed, and departed icons for each ship. It also gives a color gradient for each icon based on health and shows different icons between bombers and fighters. I should note that FotG and WoD both use this script, albeit in two different layouts. So if you didn’t want the gauge to look like those sticking with retail would be a pro in that regard.

I’d be happy to answer any other questions too.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on February 28, 2020, 10:11:13 am
To clarify: TBP does not have hud_gauges.tbl (and so falls back to the FS2 retail defaults for positions of HUD elements).

I guess it would be useful to add this then as all the other improvements you mention won't work without it anyway, no?

Quote
wookiejedi's scripted gauge gets the entire name of wing and displays it, instead of the usual first 3 letters:

This is great, but I don't like the complicated setup shown with different forms, colors and icons. But this could be unified?

Quote
It's position can be adjusted ... BP has it between radar and reticle, BtA has it in the top left corner, I like to put it between the damage report and the reticle...

In that case I suggest putting it below objectives and above the target window to the left. I feel in the middle between reticle and radar makes this area too cluttered! And at the top, like it is today, might indeed be too far off for people with large monitors. Which I don't have ;)...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wookieejedi on February 28, 2020, 10:47:34 am
Quote

This is great, but I don't like the complicated setup shown with different forms, colors and icons. But this could be unified?


Yes, all of that is configurable by the user options setting in the script file. In other words folks can set it so it act/looks just like retail.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on February 28, 2020, 03:54:40 pm
To clarify: TBP does not have hud_gauges.tbl (and so falls back to the FS2 retail defaults for positions of HUD elements).

I guess it would be useful to add this then as all the other improvements you mention won't work without it anyway, no?

On strict technical terms, all I've mentioned can be done with with a -hdg.tbm and does not require a full hud_gauges.tbl. However, having it simplifies a lot - starting with updating the referrence resolution and aspect ratio (retail configuration scales up from 800x600 or 1024x768, if I am not mistaken), and ending with an easy to access to referrence for the postion of all the standard HUD gauges.

I only keep mentioning it because I really want to pawn this off to someone - :D - so I can focus on post_processing.tbl (mainly for the cloak/decloak effects, which could be used as a stop-gap for the Shadow fade-in/-out) and ... something else I am not quite ready to talk about yet.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Su-tehp on February 28, 2020, 08:19:18 pm
One detail I want to confirm: for Centauri ships, the prefix is CR for "Centauri Republic", not CRS for "Centauri Republic Ship"?

Because I'm noticing that the Yorktown-class in the screenshots above have a different naming convention from the Centauri ship. The class names for the Earth ships and Centauri ships are consistent (nation-state prefix without the "S" for "ship") while the ship name for the Centauri ship doesn't have a prefix at all while the Earth Alliance ship does (namely "EAS").

I'm wondering if this is an oversight or deliberate.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on February 28, 2020, 09:14:11 pm
I used to say this all the time to the Diaspora team - Don't ask me for my opinion on graphics or UI. If I'm spotting a problem with either, it should have been obvious to someone else long before I noticed it. :p

Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on February 29, 2020, 05:04:06 am
One detail I want to confirm: for Centauri ships, the prefix is CR for "Centauri Republic", not CRS for "Centauri Republic Ship"?

Because I'm noticing that the Yorktown-class in the screenshots above have a different naming convention from the Centauri ship. The class names for the Earth ships and Centauri ships are consistent (nation-state prefix without the "S" for "ship") while the ship name for the Centauri ship doesn't have a prefix at all while the Earth Alliance ship does (namely "EAS").

I'm wondering if this is an oversight or deliberate.

It comes down the regime the individual FREDer applies.
I personally am not a fan of adding prefixes unless you want to express something that you cannot via the IFF-system or IFF-colour coding - As the Escort List only displays so many characters and losing 4 of those to a three letter prefix and a space is a bit of a waste.

There is also a destinction between the class, which get the relevant appreviated prefix for its home faction e.g. EA Hyperion, and the individual ship, which would get a prefix identifing it as part of a faction, e.g. EAS Yorktown (which is Hyperion-class heavy cruiser native to the Earth Alliance and an Earth Alliance Ship).
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on March 03, 2020, 08:20:13 am
Well 3.7.0 is coming along.  With it will be a lot of newly updated campaigns and missions as well as a ton of new improvements.



Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Iain Baker on March 03, 2020, 08:22:12 am
Well 3.7.0 is coming along.  With it will be a lot of newly updated campaigns and missions as well as a ton of new improvements.

 :) :) :) :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: starlord on March 03, 2020, 08:59:27 am
Ooh! Tales of Janus preserved? Me like!

By the way, anyone picked up miburo’s script for part 2 which I uploaded somewhere?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on March 03, 2020, 10:18:25 am
Yesit is Janus. Probably the hardest campaign to update.  All 20 missions.  Will be looking for some help play testing it.  Almost done squashing the errors.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: starlord on March 03, 2020, 12:50:14 pm
By the way, wasn’t slasher working on the earth alliance civil war at some point? Still remember the trailer on YouTube. It promised to be really exciting.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on March 03, 2020, 01:54:22 pm
Well I am gathering any missions or campaigns for TBP and getting them updated to run under Knossos.  I am getting to the end of my to do list.  There is Fortune Hunter but I am not sure what the campaign entails so if anyone has played it let me know what its like. It would take a lot of work to update all three campaigns.

Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: emi_100 on March 03, 2020, 05:16:57 pm
Well 3.7.0 is coming along.  With it will be a lot of newly updated campaigns and missions as well as a ton of new improvements.
What about using the new Hyperion model?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on March 03, 2020, 06:39:33 pm
I believe it is used in some of the campaigns that have been updated
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on March 04, 2020, 02:03:19 am
Speaking of updates, maybe somebody here has knowledge to change a HUD details which is bugging me for a long time: If you target an enemy ship the brackets around it become red, but the health feedback does not, so it's rather difficult to see between all the other green infos. Maybe this could be fixed?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on March 04, 2020, 08:57:29 am
When I added the HUD table to TBP I scaled  the fonts and gauges to be the same as it was before the table.  Personally I love this scale for my 43" monitor and my aging eyes.  However I am aware that the scaling for FSO and FSPort are smaller gauges and fonts (I have seen complaints about the font size too small from some).  What are your opinions about this?  Like I said I would prefer it scaled like shown


Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on March 04, 2020, 02:00:02 pm
What are your opinions about this?

Looks fine to me...