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Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Topic started by: wesp5 on September 30, 2019, 09:27:32 am

Title: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on September 30, 2019, 09:27:32 am
Thanks to karajorma and others TBP has been finally moved to FSO 3.8.0 and has been released on Knossos! Find it here: https://fsnebula.org/mod/TBP

Please report any issues in this thread! I will start...

1. The game will display a shockwave error when 3D shockwaves are selected under options (this is common and not connected to the Achen Campaign).
2. It also seems that title screens are not getting reszized to the correct resolutions, but only cut sections of them are visible if the resolution is too low...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on September 30, 2019, 10:30:31 am
What do you mean by resolution too low?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on September 30, 2019, 11:04:41 am
Lots of datas...
In the file "Data.7z", there's another data folder inside the main folder (i.e. Data.7z/data) which contains the FRED documentation and a couple movies which are most likely not be found by the game.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on September 30, 2019, 11:50:41 am
What do you mean by resolution too low?

I tested it in a window with I would guess 800x600 or 1024x768, I'll have to check tomorrow...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on September 30, 2019, 03:20:33 pm
Is that actually a problem unless you're running window mode?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 01, 2019, 05:55:12 am
Is that actually a problem unless you're running window mode?

Could be. I narrowed it to the default Knossos launcher not having any resolution set. In that case the title screens might get cropped. If you choose a resolution, even the smallest one, it looks fine! So has anyone of you access to Knossos to have it set some default resolution that the mods can read?

On another note, I had the 3.6.0 release announced on Blues News and I added an article to the ModDB page pointing to the Knossos version. Has someone access to the main TBP page to update the info there too? Also can we see download numbers in Knossos to judge how many people play it?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Robsoie on October 03, 2019, 05:59:23 pm
As i was in a nostalgia mood and was replaying old "Babylon 5 I've Found Her (https://www.indiedb.com/games/babylon-5-ive-found-her-danger-opportunity)" (and i managed to find her (https://i.imgur.com/lM6tAyE.jpg) :D sadly she exploded a minute after) , i remembered there was a B5 game made with the freespace engine here.

And even better it was on knossos so easy to download, thanks.

So a few questions after playing a few of the Raider Wars missions :

- i see on this sub board that there's a 3.6.16 version (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=60643.0) from 2013, yet on knossos it's only 3.6.0 , so am i playing a very outdated version ?

- on reading some old threat i see mention of a Zathras mod (https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/downloads/zathras-28) and nearly everywhere it was recommended to get it, yet it looks like it's also from several years ago so is it always required on the knossos version ?

- on knossos release there's a training mission and the raider wars campaigns, on the board here (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=57216.0) there's a pack of additional campaigns but looking at the date it seems to be from 2012. So are they still compatible with the knossos release or do they need some work before getting there ?

Anyways, lots of fun so far in the campaign, good work !
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 03, 2019, 06:37:52 pm
- i see on this sub board that there's a 3.6.16 version (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=60643.0) from 2013, yet on knossos it's only 3.6.0 , so am i playing a very outdated version ?

That is a bit confusing because there are two version numbers in play here:

1) The version number of TBP, which up until the Knossos release had been 3.4b; the current Knossos release is 3.6 (or 3.6.0) and the most up-to-date version, and thanks to Knossos' handy developer interface will always be the most up-to-date version.

2) And the version number of the Freespace_Open Engine. Which is still being measured by 3.X.Y - with 3.8.0 the latest stable release version and 3.8.1 the current line of versions in testing - but soon will be measured differently.

On the developer side there might have been a few, now unfortunate short-hands over the years, e.g the 3.6.16 version you are referring to basically is TBP 3.4b run on the 3.6.16 version of Freespace_Open to capitilize on improvement to the multiplayer code. These things happend when "everyone knows what we are talking about".

Knossos has made such detail oriented approaches obsolete however as it automates the distribution process into an (almost) one-click solution for the player.

- on reading some old threat i see mention of a Zathras mod (https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/downloads/zathras-28) and nearly everywhere it was recommended to get it, yet it looks like it's also from several years ago so is it always required on the knossos version ?

Zathras was the result of some internal drama over the fate of the 3.4b version. Basically Zathras was a collection of patches for TBP version 3.4b which were not allowed to call themselves patches or a version 3.5.

It is now obsolete.

- on knossos release there's a training mission and the raider wars campaigns, on the board here (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=57216.0) there's a pack of additional campaigns but looking at the date it seems to be from 2012. So are they still compatible with the knossos release or do they need some work before getting there ?

They will need some work getting there, ranging for the cosmetic to the technical - e.g. stars.tbl which acts a referrence for graphics that get layered onto the skybox (e.g. Planets) was significantly changed. Old missions would as the result of that change appear to only have a blank starfield for a background ( or worse ).

As Knossos doesn't have advanced search and filter criteria yet, it is also a bit difficult to bring old campaigns over to Knossos and have them be easily found.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Robsoie on October 03, 2019, 07:43:50 pm
Thank you for the answers !
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: PIe on October 03, 2019, 09:08:20 pm
Has someone access to the main TBP page to update the info there too?
I'm guessing the only people left who have access are the admins but updating TBP's website would be really helpful.

Also the new freighters' textures are reportedly broken.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 04, 2019, 02:05:14 am
- on knossos release there's a training mission and the raider wars campaigns, on the board here (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=57216.0) there's a pack of additional campaigns but looking at the date it seems to be from 2012. So are they still compatible with the knossos release or do they need some work before getting there ?

They need to be converted manually. Once you finish the Raider Wars, you find some more missions and the two First Ones mini campaigns in my Unofficial Patch here: https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/addons/the-babylon-project-unofficial-patch Sooner or latter the other campaigns will surely be converted for the Knossos version too!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 04, 2019, 05:38:08 am
Will they be released separately or included in the main release?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 04, 2019, 06:03:02 am
Will they be released separately or included in the main release?

Right now my stuff is available separately, but in good time I hope it will end up in the main game.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 04, 2019, 05:52:00 pm
How many hours would it take to complete Raider Wars campaign? I am chatting with SpaceGameJunkie and suggested he do a stream playing it for some exposure.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 04, 2019, 06:09:59 pm
How many hours would it take to complete Raider Wars campaign? I am chatting with SpaceGameJunkie and suggested he do a stream playing it for some exposure.

Raider Wars is adding up to like 8-10 hours, I recall. But TBP always had a bit more difficulty build in compared with other FS_Open content, so your mileage may vary greatly.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 05, 2019, 02:44:11 pm
I posted a screen shot of TBP running on my simpit with my new 4K display on the Facebook B4 room and so far is has 370 likes.  There is a lot of interest.

Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 05, 2019, 02:51:56 pm
Anyone seen and English version of this cool page I found?

http://www.kultloesungen.de/doku.php/thebabylonprojectraidere
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Robsoie on October 05, 2019, 04:52:23 pm
You can try a google translated (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kultloesungen.de%2Fdoku.php%2Fthebabylonprojectraidere&sandbox=1) version of that page

Amazing simpit OverDhill !
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 05, 2019, 05:59:46 pm
Also the new freighters' textures are reportedly broken.
I've also noticed some issues with the Starfury MK1 textures.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 05, 2019, 06:52:51 pm
Also the new freighters' textures are reportedly broken.
I've also noticed some issues with the Starfury MK1 textures.

EAM_Aurora_Mk1.pof uses the texture EAM_Aurora which is UVed for the geometry of EAM_Aurora.pof -- which do not overlap as it used to be with Aurora-variants in 3.4b.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: PIe on October 05, 2019, 08:26:39 pm
I'm uploading v3.6.1 with a fix for the Aurora Mk1 and the freighters.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 06, 2019, 01:24:40 am
I'm uploading v3.6.1 with a fix for the Aurora Mk1 and the freighters.

Thanks! Can you also look into the 3D shockwaves problem please?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 06, 2019, 10:07:00 am
Was the Sigma Walkers ship ever included in TBP? I can't find it in the files.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 08, 2019, 02:30:54 pm
Didn't somebody made some HQ interface art a couple years back too?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Col. Fishguts on October 08, 2019, 03:02:29 pm
IIRC nope to both questions.

Someone showed some WIP shots of a Sigma Walkers ship long time ago, but I think it was never released.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 08, 2019, 04:56:15 pm
I've got a complete set of models for the First Ones (including the Walker ship) that I once downloaded from Celestia Addons or something. Later on I realized that they were all the same models used in TBP (as far as I looked at it - identical textures etc), except for that one. If somebody wants to take a look at it and the interface I can throw them on MediaFire.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 08, 2019, 05:23:48 pm
The Walker Ship had some issues with making it work completely as far as I recall - something about limitation on rotating subobjects in FS_Open (the glowing orbs that are part of the ships distinct appearance), which may or may not be current - and as result could not be finished.

Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 09, 2019, 09:13:22 am
I think that should be possible in FSO though.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 09, 2019, 12:45:26 pm
So is anybody here able to finish the Sigma Walker ship? And on a related note, is there actually a mission where all the First Ones ships appear? I know about the Vorlon and Shadow mini campaigns, as I fixed them myself for Knossos, but I can't remember ever seeing the others...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 09, 2019, 01:11:33 pm
The First Ones are difficult to integrate into any scenario - on account how powerful they are supposed to be
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 09, 2019, 01:49:30 pm
So is anybody here able to finish the Sigma Walker ship? And on a related note, is there actually a mission where all the First Ones ships appear? I know about the Vorlon and Shadow mini campaigns, as I fixed them myself for Knossos, but I can't remember ever seeing the others...
AFAIK, it is completed and only needs to be converted to POF. Don't know regarding debris and LODs though as it wasn't made for ingame use.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 09, 2019, 01:51:36 pm
The First Ones are difficult to integrate into any scenario - on account how powerful they are supposed to be

There weapons are probably as powerful as those of the Vorlons and Shadows, atleast that's what I would presume.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 09, 2019, 02:36:27 pm
The First Ones are difficult to integrate into any scenario - on account how powerful they are supposed to be

There weapons are probably as powerful as those of the Vorlons and Shadows, atleast that's what I would presume.

It would have been cool if Mag would have made a Coriana 6 mission for his Star Fury Pilot pack! But then I just looked at the First Ones ships in the technical section and they all look rather bad compared to other TBP models and quite different from how they looked in the show. They all need a makeover, besides the missing Walker ship...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 09, 2019, 03:02:10 pm
OK, having looked at all of them (and loading the 3ds files into TS) I realized that there's massive room for improvement on that part. My guess is that these ships were simply too high poly back then - the Sigma Walker ship has 127k polies, the Krishiac ship 70k (currently 3k), the Triad vessel 54k instead of 9k and some Shadow heavy fighter with 12k instead of 2k. Now they'd be just fine if somebody converted them.
I put that stuff on MediaFire later so tha others can take a look at them.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: 0rph3u5 on October 09, 2019, 03:17:28 pm
The First Ones are difficult to integrate into any scenario - on account how powerful they are supposed to be

There weapons are probably as powerful as those of the Vorlons and Shadows, atleast that's what I would presume.

It's not about the numbers on the page, each time a First Ones' ship appears in the show it is presented as a force majeure - which is why having them on the field is such a challange; they best serve as background objects that way (much like the Vorlon Planet Killer or the Drakh Mothership)
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 09, 2019, 04:04:07 pm
Still, from the show themselves it's hard to estimate the strength of these ships actually. They blow up the VPK in a single combined strike, yet they don't appear OP besides that. Perhaps their arms are solely made to kill only real big things.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 10, 2019, 05:55:44 pm
I was just looking through the VP files associated with the Zathrus 2.8 package, and I found a couple of Aurora models that appear to be be based on the high-poly model, but reskinned for the PSI Aurora, and another that's listed as the "Line" Aurora, which I assume to be the MK1.  The models in the 3.6 release are 1986 KB for the base model, and 683 KB for the PSI and MK1, while in the Zathrus package, there are said models at 2135 KB.  I compared the standard issue models from both packages, and despite the 150 KB difference, they appear to be the same model.  The Zathrus package also has models for Ivanova, Sinclair, and Sheridan, which I assume are simple reskins, and since you're not gonna have more than one each in a mission, a simple texture replacement in FRED would accomplish the same thing.  In regards to the PSI and MK1 (Line?) models, if they are better than those in the 3.6 release, you may want to swap them out.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 10, 2019, 07:32:38 pm
I would also like to point out that the Star Fury did have maneuvering thrusters (I looked it up on the Wiki) which are possible with the FS engine.  They could be added by changing the ship file  and assigning the binds.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 10, 2019, 07:34:21 pm
It's more of a table job to add maneuvering thrusters, but yes it's possible.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 10, 2019, 07:36:19 pm
Yes.... I added them to one of the ships in FS2 in the past.  It really added to the game
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 11, 2019, 01:42:11 am
Yes.... I added them to one of the ships in FS2 in the past.  It really added to the game

So can you add them to the Star Furies too? I assume this is to get more of the cool strafing effect as shown in the show.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 11, 2019, 08:16:54 am
It was awhile back but from what I remember I changed the x and y parameters of the $Max Velocity section for each ship ($Max Velocity:   22.5, 22.5, 90 for example).  You also need to change it for the afterburner section as well.

$Max Velocity:

    Defines maximum velocities with standard energy settings on x (left/right), y (up/down), and z (forward) -axis (respectively). z -axis velocity defines the maximum forward velocity.
    The x and y velocities are considered slide veocities
    Syntax: Vector, three floats, x-axis, y-axis, z-axis, respectively, meters per second
        Example: 0.0, 0.0, 80.0

I did a quick check and it looks like the TBP ships.tbl already has all the x and y velocities set. 


I re-bound keys to them and it seems to work now.  Not sure why the keys I had bound didn't work but I am glad it is working now.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 11, 2019, 02:19:15 pm
I did a quick check and it looks like the TBP ships.tbl already has all the x and y velocities set. 

If you mean the Star Fury can already slide left/right/up/down you are right of course, but the speed seems to be much slower than forward. So what are the actual values?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 11, 2019, 06:51:56 pm
The standard Star Fury values are $Max Velocity:   22.5, 22.5, 90

I would say they could be upped a little. I did see one problem.  Someone forgot to add the x and y values to the afterburners.  I will try some new values and see if it feels better.  You don't want your slide to be as fast as your forward speed but it does feel a bit sluggish as it stands now. 

I would be interested in hearing what some other people think.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on October 11, 2019, 08:16:29 pm
If you're interested, I can give you SVN access so that you can add those changes to the next release.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 11, 2019, 09:36:23 pm
I did some changes.  Just extract the zip file into the TBP\TBP-3.6.2\data folder to play test it.   These are the ships and values I set them to;

Aurora        $Max Velocity:   30.0, 30.0, 90
      +Aburn Max Vel:   43.5.0, 43.5.0, 130

Aurora MK1   $Max Velocity:   28.25, 28.25, 85
      +Aburn Max Vel:   48.0, 48.0, 145

Badger      $Max Velocity:   27.0, 27.0, 80.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   43.0, 43.0, 130

Thunderbolt   $Max Velocity:   33.0, 33.0, 100.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   46.0, 46.0, 140

Thunderbolt Bomber   $Max Velocity:   30.0, 30.0, 100.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   40.0, 40.0, 130

Tiger      $Max Velocity:   26.0, 26.0, 80.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   41.0, 41.0, 125

Valkyrie      $Max Velocity:   17.5,17.5, 60.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   30.0, 30.0, 120

109 Zephyr   $Max Velocity:   23.75, 23.75, 70.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   35.0, 35.0, 120.0

PSI Aurora   $Max Velocity:   30.5, 30.5, 90.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   44.0, 44.0, 130

PSI Thunderbolt   $Max Velocity:   35.0, 35.0, 100.0
      +Aburn Max Vel:   47.0, 47.0, 140

PSI Thunderbolt   $Max Velocity:   30.0, 30.0, 100.0
      #Bomber   +Aburn Max Vel:   40.0, 40.0, 130


Not having played any other campaign except for some of Raider Wars I have flown anything but the Aurora.  I used some estimates as for the others as to what type of fighter it was.  Feel free to play with the values and report back.

Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 15, 2019, 10:15:02 pm
Has anyone tried these new settings?  Any feedback?

Also what are some of the other campaigns that should be worked on next.   I understand that Drums of War is being worked on by 0rph3u5
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 16, 2019, 07:16:12 am
Has anyone tried these new settings?

Not yet, but the changes sound reasonable.

Quote
Also what are some of the other campaigns that should be worked on next.

I fixed MAG's Starfury Pilot Missions, his Io Training wing campaign and the Vorlon and Shadow mini campaigns. They are in the SVN 3.5.1 temp folder and I understand that PIe will integrate them into the main mod.

But speaking of the Starfury Pilot Missions, there are two Earth Minbari War missions included, namely the most important ones "In the Beginning" and "The Battle of the Line". As the other original campaign included with TBP was the Earth Minbari War campaign, maybe someone who can actually edit missions could take these two missions and kind of complete this campaign?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 16, 2019, 07:51:22 am
Since I never have played any of the campaigns which ones are the longest and most complete.  When I tell people about this MOD that is one question they ask.

Here is a list of the campaigns I found.

Achen Flight School.......................................by Vidmaster
Dark Children*................................................by Vidmaster
Earth Alliance Training.......................by madaboutgames
Earth Brakiri War.................................by madaboutgames
Fortune Hunters - 2259*................................by Vidmaster
Fortune Hunters - 2260*................................by Vidmaster
Infestation............................................by madaboutgames
Operations.................................................... ...by Vidmaster
Survivor................................................by madaboutgames
Drums of War: Part 1..........................................by 0rph3u5
Drums of War: Part 2..........................................by 0rph3u5
The Black Hand: Episode 1................................by 0rph3u5
Awakening the Beast Demo.............................by 0rph3u5
Star Fury Pilot Single Missions........by madaboutgames
Misc Single Missions.........................by Various Authors

The Babylon Project - Relic v1.0a........by Slasher

In The Name Of The Emperor

Guardian Of Light



Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: starlord on October 16, 2019, 08:56:19 am
The tales of Janus also come to mind by miburo, with a released first chapter and a WIP design doc for the second chapter.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 16, 2019, 01:59:58 pm
Since I never have played any of the campaigns which ones are the longest and most complete.

I don't know, but maybe listing the number of missions helps. Here is what I know sorted alphabetically:

Achen Flight School.........................................by Vidmaster > 1 mission
Awakening the Beast Demo..............................by 0rph3u5
Dark Children..................................................by Vidmaster > 5 missions (fixed for Knossos)
Drums of War: Part 1-3.....................................by 0rph3u5
Earth Alliance Training..........................by madaboutgames > 6 missions (fixed for Knossos)
Earth Brakiri War..................................by madaboutgames > 26 missions
Earth Minbari War............................................by TBP team
Emearon Incident..............................................by Ker.Soth > 8 missions
Fortune Hunters - 2259..................................by Vidmaster
Fortune Hunters - 2260..................................by Vidmaster
Fortune Hunters - 2261..................................by Vidmaster
Guardian Of Light.........................................by Darkmaster > 4 missions (fixed for Knossos)
Infestation...........................................by madaboutgames > 10 missions
In The Name Of The Emperor...............................by Skullar > 3 missions
Operations.................................................... ..by Vidmaster
Raider Wars.....................................................by TBP team > 18 missions (fixed for Knossos)
Relic v1.0a......................................................... .by Slasher
Survivor................................................by madaboutgames > 10 missions
Star Fury Pilot Single Missions..............by madaboutgames > 12 missions (fixed for Knossos)
The Black Hand: Episode 1................................by 0rph3u5
Misc Single Missions...............................by Various Authors



Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 16, 2019, 04:36:37 pm
Just pointing out that the 3D shock wave error is still there
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 16, 2019, 11:16:17 pm
Many, MANY years ago, I began trying to get "In The Beginning" to a polished state.  It seems that it was originally written in Russian (I think), then there was an attempt to translate it into English, but it was very crude.  Sometimes I had to look at what sequence was occuring in the events to understand what the text was supposed to be.  I never finished it, but I still have it in various stages of completion on my hard drive, and I have moved on to various other projects, but I eventually hope to get back to it.

BTW, it was Den5 who is the original creator of the campaign, but missions from the E-M War Demo were incorporated into it.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 17, 2019, 10:53:08 am
Many, MANY years ago, I began trying to get "In The Beginning" to a polished state.

If you mean the sequence in which Sheridan blows the Black Star, MAG has made a nice mission about that for his Star Fury Pilot pack and I already made it work in Knossos. But I don't remember much about the Earth Minbari campaign and it's setting, like who is the player pilot, to know if integrating this would be feasable...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 17, 2019, 05:18:25 pm
"In The Beginning" is a very long campaign, which begins essentially with the encounter between the Prometheus' battlegroup and the Grey Council's fleet, and goes right through to the Battle of the Line, and even includes an epilogue that jumps forward to 2259.  The Sheridan-Black Star engagement is part of the campaign, but it's not MAG's version.  The entire campaign (with the possible exception of the missions adapted from the E-M War Demo) was made by Den5.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 18, 2019, 02:26:44 am
"In The Beginning" is a very long campaign, which begins essentially with the encounter between the Prometheus' battlegroup and the Grey Council's fleet, and goes right through to the Battle of the Line, and even includes an epilogue that jumps forward to 2259.  The Sheridan-Black Star engagement is part of the campaign, but it's not MAG's version.  The entire campaign (with the possible exception of the missions adapted from the E-M War Demo) was made by Den5.

Wow, it would be cool if you could convert that to Knossos :)!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 23, 2019, 12:37:31 am
I was just looking through the VP files associated with the Zathrus 2.8 package, and I found a couple of Aurora models that appear to be be based on the high-poly model, but reskinned for the PSI Aurora, and another that's listed as the "Line" Aurora, which I assume to be the MK1.  The models in the 3.6 release are 1986 KB for the base model, and 683 KB for the PSI and MK1, while in the Zathrus package, there are said models at 2135 KB.  I compared the standard issue models from both packages, and despite the 150 KB difference, they appear to be the same model.  The Zathrus package also has models for Ivanova, Sinclair, and Sheridan, which I assume are simple reskins, and since you're not gonna have more than one each in a mission, a simple texture replacement in FRED would accomplish the same thing.  In regards to the PSI and MK1 (Line?) models, if they are better than those in the 3.6 release, you may want to swap them out.
I just finished testing out said high-detail Aurora MK1 and Psi Aurora, and they both appear to work fine, once I switched to the correct spelling for the debris texture.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 23, 2019, 07:51:49 am
Thats great. Can we get those changes to karajorma?   Hopefully we can get the changes uploaded for Knossos along with the new ship tavble to support strafing.  That and include the work wesp5 has done for the Star Furry pack missions.

Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 23, 2019, 07:13:18 pm
Who did The Earth Minbari War Demo?  B5-C-sp-EMW-3_0.vp I believe is the file. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: hip63 on October 23, 2019, 07:57:55 pm

hip63
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: PIe on October 24, 2019, 11:56:12 am
To sum up, improvements/fixes to include so far are:
Shockwave error
Hi-poly Aurora Mk1 and Psi (do you have a link?)
Wesp's campaigns
Am I missing anything?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 24, 2019, 12:19:34 pm
To sum up, improvements/fixes to include so far are:
Shockwave error
Hi-poly Aurora Mk1 and Psi (do you have a link?)
Wesp's campaigns
Am I missing anything?

Please add the changes I made to the ship table (above) to allow vertical and horizontal strafing
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: cloneof on October 24, 2019, 12:31:49 pm
Hi! Love the fact that this fantastic game still keeps getting the community love it deserves.

So after some time, I got the Knossos working on Manjaro linux distro. Had a blast with the game, although my Intel HD of course has a harder time drawing those fancy 3d animations. But I was wondering, does anyone know if the Linux version the game even have that fascinating level/campaign editor? Was looking around the main folder and (surprise) while I didn't  find any .exe files, I certainly didn't find anything resembling a clickable FRED. I remember looking at it back in the day in utter confusion and though I would give it a nostalgic run.

Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 24, 2019, 05:36:34 pm
The Hi-Poly Aurora MK1 and Psi Aurora are both in the Zathrus 2.8 release that can be found in the Public Development subforum.  Within the download, you can find them in the Z_Advanced VP file.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 25, 2019, 03:51:14 am
What is the best VP editors to use when dealing with older VP's on Windows 7 64 bit?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 25, 2019, 04:23:39 pm
I've used VP-Mage and QuickVP, but there's also VPCS2.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on October 25, 2019, 06:21:08 pm
To sum up, improvements/fixes to include so far are:
Shockwave error
Hi-poly Aurora Mk1 and Psi (do you have a link?)
Wesp's campaigns
Am I missing anything?

I ran RW with Debug with a nightly and had some errors and a crash.

Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on October 25, 2019, 07:58:03 pm
What is the best VP editors to use when dealing with older VP's on Windows 7 64 bit?

Using the same ones as Trivial Psychic.
Complete list: https://www.freespacemods.net/#cat_51
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on October 27, 2019, 05:34:22 pm
I've used VP-Mage and QuickVP, but there's also VPCS2.

Do you have a working link for VPCS2? I tried VPmage and QuickVP and while I was able to edit VPs with the latter, the voice files got messed up...

P.S.: I just found it here: http://www.fs2downloads.com/Downloads/vpcs2.zip, but it can't even open TBP VPs, so for now only QuickVP does work.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: tomimaki on October 29, 2019, 03:23:25 pm
Hi! Love the fact that this fantastic game still keeps getting the community love it deserves.

So after some time, I got the Knossos working on Manjaro linux distro. Had a blast with the game, although my Intel HD of course has a harder time drawing those fancy 3d animations. But I was wondering, does anyone know if the Linux version the game even have that fascinating level/campaign editor? Was looking around the main folder and (surprise) while I didn't  find any .exe files, I certainly didn't find anything resembling a clickable FRED. I remember looking at it back in the day in utter confusion and though I would give it a nostalgic run.
There is qtFRED but you must compile it yourself and editor is still in WiP (https://github.com/scp-fs2open/fs2open.github.com/projects/3)
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: cloneof on November 01, 2019, 08:32:00 am
Hi! Love the fact that this fantastic game still keeps getting the community love it deserves.

So after some time, I got the Knossos working on Manjaro linux distro. Had a blast with the game, although my Intel HD of course has a harder time drawing those fancy 3d animations. But I was wondering, does anyone know if the Linux version the game even have that fascinating level/campaign editor? Was looking around the main folder and (surprise) while I didn't  find any .exe files, I certainly didn't find anything resembling a clickable FRED. I remember looking at it back in the day in utter confusion and though I would give it a nostalgic run.
There is qtFRED but you must compile it yourself and editor is still in WiP (https://github.com/scp-fs2open/fs2open.github.com/projects/3)

Thank you! I'm glad to know that I just wasn't completely blind.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: praseodym on November 25, 2019, 02:15:48 pm
Wohoo. Dled, however it crashes with the recommended standard 3.8.0 build under Ubuntu 16.04 (Knossos not working there). Using wxlauncher, I am running in a lot of errors.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: praseodym on November 25, 2019, 02:36:58 pm
Ok, seems to work with the 3.7.4 self-compiled one. Just adding all the other mods as usual?! Can I just c/p them from the "old" folder?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on December 09, 2019, 04:06:29 pm
- on knossos release there's a training mission and the raider wars campaigns, on the board here (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=57216.0) there's a pack of additional campaigns but looking at the date it seems to be from 2012. So are they still compatible with the knossos release or do they need some work before getting there ?

They need to be converted manually. Once you finish the Raider Wars, you find some more missions and the two First Ones mini campaigns in my Unofficial Patch here: https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/addons/the-babylon-project-unofficial-patch Sooner or latter the other campaigns will surely be converted for the Knossos version too!

Did these ever make it into the Knossos downloads yet?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on December 09, 2019, 04:07:02 pm
https://youtu.be/PW5U5E-7gt4
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on December 28, 2019, 08:43:35 pm
Is this MOD dead?  Doesn't seem to be any new activity lately.   I hope not
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on December 28, 2019, 09:41:45 pm
It's probably not being worked on right now. That doesn't mean that could change at some future point. For example it has been 6 years or so since the latest Zathras release and 3.6.0.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Iain Baker on December 29, 2019, 10:28:39 am
Do we know when / if the other campaigns will be ported over, such as Dark Children (play as a shadow fighter) and the one you play as a Vorlon?Those were superb :-)

Hint - when playing as a vorlon going up against the centauri primus, park yourself in its fighter bay. When the wings of four fighters spawn in a line neat little line fire your beam gun - it will overpenetrate and skewer all in one go before they even leave the ship  :cool:
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on December 29, 2019, 12:40:31 pm
I don't know how much has been changed since the latest Zathras release (which had the campaigns included) and 3-6-0. You can just go ahead and look if stuff is broken.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on December 29, 2019, 12:51:06 pm
Do we know when / if the other campaigns will be ported over, such as Dark Children (play as a shadow fighter) and the one you play as a Vorlon? Those were superb :-)

I love the First Ones campaigns too and as I correctly supected that it would take time to include them, you can find them converted for 3.6 in my Unofficial Patch:
https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/addons/the-babylon-project-unofficial-patch
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Iain Baker on December 29, 2019, 02:07:29 pm
Do we know when / if the other campaigns will be ported over, such as Dark Children (play as a shadow fighter) and the one you play as a Vorlon? Those were superb :-)

I love the First Ones campaigns too and as I correctly supected that it would take time to include them, you can find them converted for 3.6 in my Unofficial Patch:
https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/addons/the-babylon-project-unofficial-patch

Superb, thank you so much :-)

Just one quick question - can you tell me where the knossos version of TBP 'lives', as its not with the other mods. Looking through the folders it looks like the BSG and Wing Commader mods don't live there either, so I assume they get placed somewhere else. Any ideas?

Cheers :-)
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on December 29, 2019, 02:36:48 pm
Just one quick question - can you tell me where the knossos version of TBP 'lives', as its not with the other mods.

What do you mean? It should be listed like all the other mods in the Knossos launcher. Or is it still listed as a beta?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on December 30, 2019, 06:45:05 am
I love the First Ones campaigns too and as I correctly supected that it would take time to include them, you can find them converted for 3.6 in my Unofficial Patch:
https://www.moddb.com/games/the-babylon-project/addons/the-babylon-project-unofficial-patch

I'm going to ask again, why the **** are you working against us by making unofficial patches that will **** up the Knossos install for people when it's obvious that we really need more people to work on the Knossos releases? You have SVN access! You have Beta access! You have all the tools necessary to do this the right way! Why are you insisting on doing things in a way that will cause people who have installed TBP on Knossos problems when we do get around to doing another release? Why are you expending time and effort on doing things the wrong way?

I simply don't get it.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on December 30, 2019, 10:41:16 am
I'm going to ask again, why the **** are you working against us by making unofficial patches that will **** up the Knossos install for people when it's obvious that we really need more people to work on the Knossos releases? You have SVN access! You have Beta access!

I have uploaded all these files a long time ago to SVN and you never bothered to add them to the main release, so I went ahead and updated the patch! If you want me to get rid of the patch, JUST ADD THE DAMN FILES WHICH YOU HAD ACCESS TO FOR AGES!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Iain Baker on December 30, 2019, 03:02:05 pm
Just one quick question - can you tell me where the knossos version of TBP 'lives', as its not with the other mods.

What do you mean? It should be listed like all the other mods in the Knossos launcher. Or is it still listed as a beta?

Its on the Knossos launcher ok, but the folders for it and some of the other non-FS campaigns do not appear to live with the others - see the attached screenshots. If I can't find the folders then I can't add the patch to them.

PS - thank you for doing this - and the hard work you have put into getting VTMB working :-)
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on December 30, 2019, 08:25:01 pm
You probably can put the patches into the main FS install, hopefully (just don't forget to remove them). Use windows/whatever search to find stuff, unless you're on Discord you'll most likely find it yourself quicker than to wait for an awnser.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on December 30, 2019, 10:18:25 pm
As far as I recall when you run the patch it asks whether you have the Classic or Knossos.  If your using Knossos just point it to the FreespaceOpen/TBP-3.6.2  folder first then choose Knossos patch. It should install the files in the data folder under TBP-3.6.2 folder.  Unless someone can add these to Knossos.

Not sure about the confusion concerning adding these to the official release but I do not know how to use the SVN to push files up to Knossos so I cannot say.  For now I added them with the patch to play around with them.  So far they seem to be working well.


Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on December 31, 2019, 02:49:09 am
As far as I recall when you run the patch it asks whether you have the Classic Knossos.

It asks whether you have classic or Knossos as I just updated my old patch until the missions were included into the main Knossos game.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on December 31, 2019, 11:47:55 pm
I have uploaded all these files a long time ago to SVN and you never bothered to add them to the main release, so I went ahead and updated the patch! If you want me to get rid of the patch, JUST ADD THE DAMN FILES WHICH YOU HAD ACCESS TO FOR AGES!

You literally have access so that you can add them yourself. We held off on adding stuff for the first release. But now that it is out, you can add them. You don't have to wait for me to do anything. Just do it. Test it. Release it. I'm pretty sure I told you that earlier, which is why the whole unofficial patch is annoying. You have another way to release it. There is absolutely no reason you have to do it this way!
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 01, 2020, 02:57:54 am
I have uploaded all these files a long time ago to SVN and you never bothered to add them to the main release, so I went ahead and updated the patch! If you want me to get rid of the patch, JUST ADD THE DAMN FILES WHICH YOU HAD ACCESS TO FOR AGES!

You literally have access so that you can add them yourself. We held off on adding stuff for the first release. But now that it is out, you can add them. You don't have to wait for me to do anything. Just do it. Test it. Release it.

Sorry, but I removed the whole SVN beta setup when the main version came out because I thought I won't need it anymore. Also I wasn't aware that everybody would be able to add stuff to the main release and I wouldn't know how either. So please you do it! People are obviously waiting ;)...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on January 01, 2020, 05:48:56 am
Than why not re DL it? Sure it takes a while but I doubt that Kara will do that for you.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 01, 2020, 10:34:10 am
Than why not re DL it? Sure it takes a while but I doubt that Kara will do that for you.

Sorry, but if you expect everybody to upload their own campaigns the main project will never get finished! Or it will get completely messed up. I thought kara was the guy who maintained the final release version...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on January 01, 2020, 10:44:36 am
I just had the impression that you already had the files and only had to put them on SVN.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 01, 2020, 02:26:32 pm
I just had the impression that you already had the files and only had to put them on SVN.

My files are in the Temp_Folder folder of the SVN repository since over a year! Karajorma and OverDhill promised to add them to the main game months ago, but just never did...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: Nightmare on January 01, 2020, 02:53:09 pm
If that stuff has already been tested it shouldn't be too much work.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on January 01, 2020, 06:19:06 pm
Sorry, but if you expect everybody to upload their own campaigns the main project will never get finished! Or it will get completely messed up. I thought kara was the guy who maintained the final release version...

Given how busy I've been lately, if you expect me to do it, it will never get released either.

If it works, if it's been tested, if it doesn't break the game, put it in the release folder. And if the answer to any of those things isn't true, why the hell is it being released unofficially?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on January 01, 2020, 06:21:16 pm
Just for the record I never said I would as I do not know how.  I have just been trying to keep an interest on this MOD. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on January 01, 2020, 07:15:49 pm
If you're interested in learning, we could give you access. To be honest, the biggest thing we need is people who want to playtest.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 02, 2020, 03:42:14 am
I don't have access to my PC right now, but maybe when I'm home again, I'll reinstall SVN. But I'm busy with the Bloodlines patch too and I thought you could do this much faster than anybody else who first must learn it. Like I have no idea how to move anything inside a SVN repository, but all missions are tested and work...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 07, 2020, 01:14:59 pm
Okay, so I wanted to try to move my stuff into the main data folder, but using the old SVN link and login karajorma gave me long ago only gives me access to TBP 3.5.1 which I guess is completely outdated by now. My stuff is already in the temp folder there, how do we get it into the 3.6.2 release? The beta version is also gone from Knossos...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on January 10, 2020, 08:20:39 pm
It's still the same folder. It just needs to be renamed. Try it now. You should have a TBP 3.6.3 folder instead.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 11, 2020, 02:37:05 am
Great! I am uploading all of my stuff to the data folder now, where it is on my system too. But man, upload is slow! Do I need to do something else afterwards for it to be visible in the main game or is this all?

P.S.: Damn, TortoiseSVN is so stupid :(! I had uploaded almost all my stuff when I noticed a file that should not be uploaded, so I removed it locally. SVN stopped with an error and EVERYTHING ELSE THAT I UPLOADED WAS LOST! It can't upload multiple files either. I don't have time for another try this weekend, so I'll continue next week...
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on January 11, 2020, 07:52:07 am
Yeah, that wasn't a smart move. You should have just uploaded it and then deleted it afterwards. But SVN has a bunch of gotchas that you only learn the hard way.

Once it's up we can check it works and then release it.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: OverDhill on January 11, 2020, 11:33:54 pm
My setup
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 15, 2020, 04:01:49 pm
Once it's up we can check it works and then release it.

So, everything has been uploaded! What has to be done for this to be released now?
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: karajorma on January 17, 2020, 07:43:02 am
Testing. i.e does it work? If you're sure it does, we can push this out.
Title: Re: TBP 3.6.0 released on Knossos!
Post by: wesp5 on January 17, 2020, 08:05:08 am
Testing. i.e does it work? If you're sure it does, we can push this out.

I'm pretty sure it works. I tested the same files manually with my Knossos version...