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Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Topic started by: OverDhill on March 10, 2020, 08:49:50 pm

Title: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 10, 2020, 08:49:50 pm
The Babylon Project 3.7.0 has been released on Knossos

 The contents for this release include:

Campaigns

Achen Schooling Flight
Dark Children
Earth Minbari War Mini Campaign
EBW-Earth Brakiri War
Guardian of Light
In the Name of the Emperor
Infestation
Io Training Wing
Operation Black Sun
Operation Isolation
Operation Suppression
Raider Wars
Relic
Survivor
Tale EAS Janus: EA-Minbari War
Fortune Hunter 2259
Fortune Hunter 2260
Fortune Hunter 2261


Single Missions

A Distant Star
And Now A Word
A View from the Gallery
A Voice in the Wilderness
The Fall of Night
In the Beginning
Points of Departure
Severed Dreams
Shadow Dancing
Signs and Portents
The Battle of the Line
The Long Twilight Struggle
Vartas System Cinematic
Human-Narn Contact
Call of the Sirens
The Bad Dream


Updates:
Fixed all ship and star names in mission files
Added a hud_gauages table (overdhill)
Added a post_processing table (overdhill)
Added Custom Wingmen HUD Gauge  (by wookieejedi)
Added Scripted Message Gauge (by Axem)
Updated strings table (Orph3u5)
Added radar icons (Orph3u5}
Fixed nameplates (Orph3u5)
Fixed Aurora thrusters (Orph3u5)
Aim Assist for the lower two difficulty levels (overdhill)
Play testing some of the missions by wesp5
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 10, 2020, 08:53:28 pm
This was a group effort.  A major thanks to Karajorma,  0rph3u5 and wesp5 for their help and contributions.

We endeavored to bring TBP to a whole new generation of players.  Of coarse all the credit goes to those that created this work.  Without them this would not be possible.

Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 11, 2020, 03:01:18 am
Great :)! Maybe you should change the last announcement line to "Some play testing and fixing done by wesp5" though, as I see a lot of stuff there that I haven't played so it's not my fault when some of it is still buggy ;). BTW, has anybody here access to the old homepage and could make an update and an announcement there? http://babylon.hard-light.net/index.php
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 11, 2020, 02:08:22 pm
Fixed nameplates (Orph3u5)

This only extends to Earth-Minbari War DEMO and Relic.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Nightmare on March 11, 2020, 02:14:57 pm
Nice work, good to see this updated! :) :yes:
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 11, 2020, 05:29:21 pm
I tried to gather all of the campaigns and missions that I could find.  If anyone has any or find anymore we can do them as well.  But it was a group effort and I learned a lot from a couple guys as well as working on all the mission files and new tables that were added.

The response from my post in the FB B5 room has been good. So maybe we will get a lot of new players.


I only wish I knew Fred as I would like to try my hand in making a campaign.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: emi_100 on March 11, 2020, 07:46:05 pm
Good work! Glad to see this  :yes:

Quote
I only wish I knew Fred as I would like to try my hand in making a campaign.
Is not that difficult, there are tutorials,
and you can open the mission of the campaigns that already exist to see the structure and how it's works.
The difficult part is the story telling I think.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Nightmare on March 11, 2020, 08:48:48 pm
It depends on the complexity of the missions you want to make. The basic stuff is rather easy.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 11, 2020, 09:01:59 pm
I am hoping some of the guys who have made great campaigns will create a few more for TBP. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 12, 2020, 03:02:15 am
The response from my post in the FB B5 room has been good. So maybe we will get a lot of new players.

I had the new version announced on Blues News, which is a famous gaming site. So are there any numbers to check in Knossos to see if downloads are increasing?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Nightmare on March 12, 2020, 05:57:33 am
I am hoping some of the guys who have made great campaigns will create a few more for TBP.

Orpheus is the only one who works on new campaign for TBP in a long time though. If you want new content and have ideas, just step ahead.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Irusk on March 13, 2020, 11:55:21 am
Hello, great work :).

I encountered a bug in the No Surrender, No Retreat mission.

When the Agrippa and other ships come through the jump gate, once the first Omega is out all other seems to bug together. Neither the fighters appear nor the do the other 3 Cap ships move towards the station.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 13, 2020, 03:30:40 pm
I encountered a bug in the No Surrender, No Retreat mission.

When the Agrippa and other ships come through the jump gate, once the first Omega is out all other seems to bug together. Neither the fighters appear nor the do the other 3 Cap ships move towards the station.

Do you mean the Severed Dreams single-mission?

I had a look, and I could not replicate that

Spoiler:
The Roanoke in that mission has a bit of head start on the rest of the Earthforce ships because of how the arrival of the ship is handled (tl;dr multiple ships, one jumppoint-arrivals don't work per se in FSO; you can hack it together but it takes a bit of work - here the choice was made to fake it by having the Roanoke's warp-in effect obscure the other ships spawning).

As for the rest of the fighters - the mission seems to be heavily relying on the dynamic AI and it pretty low on scripted events - as such the AI fighters only respond when threatened or when the motherships are attacked.
Switching them over to the hostile team happens a while after the arrival of the Earthforce ships.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: starlord on March 14, 2020, 04:25:53 pm
Wasn’t there a campaign made in Russian by den5 also called in the beginning by the way? Or am I mistaken...
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Trivial Psychic on March 15, 2020, 12:28:11 am
There was.  In fact, I've got it somewhere.  He made some attempts to translate it to English but it was so poor I often had to open the event sequence to figure out what he meant.  Years ago I started a project to update and convert it... but I never finished.  Someday I hope to get back to it.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 15, 2020, 05:51:30 am
There was.  In fact, I've got it somewhere.  He made some attempts to translate it to English but it was so poor I often had to open the event sequence to figure out what he meant.  Years ago I started a project to update and convert it... but I never finished.  Someday I hope to get back to it.

If you could find it and send it I will take a look at updating it.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 17, 2020, 08:54:04 am
And videos for the Earth Minbari War Mini-Campaing are live:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWRVvhjcnlx0s1jxlIcEAmuCioPW_zNqT

Slight departure from the 3.7.0-version:
- Upgraded Loading Screens (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=96336.0), v 0.1
- and I had a little fun with textures on the Auroras
- - In Mission 1 & 2 each wing gets their own design for the "top art"
- - In Mission 3, 4 & 5 the designs are increasingly mixed, so that by the final mission no design repeats - this is to communicate the increasing attrition of the Earthforce fighter corps.

I will fine-tune the designs before I turn into a submission.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 17, 2020, 09:56:51 am
- Upgraded Loading Screens (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=96336.0), v 0.1

Are you doing anything about the "Continue Campaign" to "Play Campaign" and "New Campaign" to "Select Campaign" suggestions I made of should I take a look myself?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 17, 2020, 10:20:16 am
Not at this time.  Those are not easy changes and to be honest I have no problems with the way it is now.  Maybe in the future we can get someone to make us a Main Hall like the ones mjn.mixael has done but as he was explaining it to me that task is way out of my skill level. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 17, 2020, 01:29:58 pm
Maybe in the future we can get someone to make us a Main Hall like the ones mjn.mixael has done

You are way too easily distracted by shiney things :D



Are you doing anything about the "Continue Campaign" to "Play Campaign" and "New Campaign" to "Select Campaign" suggestions I made of should I take a look myself?

*points over there* (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=96337.0)
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 17, 2020, 03:12:04 pm
Maybe in the future we can get someone to make us a Main Hall like the ones mjn.mixael has done

You are way too easily distracted by shiney things :D



Are you doing anything about the "Continue Campaign" to "Play Campaign" and "New Campaign" to "Select Campaign" suggestions I made of should I take a look myself?

*points over there* (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=96337.0)

Guilty as charged.   I just think those Main Halls are way cool thats all.   After all it this not a simulation  :nod:

Would it not be cool to be in C&C to select where to go?   ;7

But its not going to happen.   :banghead:
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 23, 2020, 11:15:51 am
Total Conversion The Babylon Project 3.7.1 released!

Changes for 3.7.1

Added campaign The Emearon Incident
Fixed the Scripted Message Gauge
Fixed Achen Schooling Flight

0rph3u5 changes

- Aurora-variants A-O, for 1-4
- Interface files for the Loading Screen upgrade (v0.5)
- Table files for the Interface update
- Loading Screens for Earth Minbari War
- updated Missions for Earth Minbari War
- - disabled Loading Screens to opt-in the Loading Screen Update
- - added support for the maps
- - Mission 3: changed the language on the rtb directives
- - Mission 4: fixed the "Hold the Line"-directive to appear
- - Mission 4: added the Napoleon, Moscow and Birmingham to the escort list to better direct the player
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Nightmare on March 23, 2020, 01:19:40 pm
Nice nice :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 23, 2020, 03:17:08 pm
Cool! So OverDhill, did you get my last archive with all the single mission fixes?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 23, 2020, 03:18:21 pm
Yes they are included
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 23, 2020, 05:17:28 pm
Great :)! Maybe I'll start on the Janus campaign tomorrow...

P.S.: I noticed that "Achen Flying School" is again on the campaign page, although it's only a single mission. I thought we agreed that this should be moved to the single missions page as a tutorial there, because the "Io Training Wing" has the same function on the campaign page being a real campaign! By using a trick and calling it "1o Training wing" we could make sure that it appears at the top of the list like the "Achen Flying School" before. With the current font the number can hardly be noticed ;)!

P.P.S.: I found an even better solution than the one suggested above: If you enclose a mission name with * it will always appear first on the list, that way we could make sure that both "Achen Flying School" and "Io Training Wing" stand out in their section and player will recognize them as tutorials. I really think we should do that in case 0rph3u5 manages to create a Simulator button, because I for one would always start with single missions before taking on a campaign so I would need a tutorial there!
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: karajorma on March 24, 2020, 11:40:58 am
I strongly suggest we don't use any of those sorts of hack to make the campaign appear first on the list. They always **** up the moment anything is changed.

If the mission really does need to be played before anything else, just make it the default campaign and include an explanation of how to change campaigns when it finishes.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 24, 2020, 12:02:11 pm
As it stand the current 3.7.1 will not change for awhile.  When and if some worthwhile improvements are done there will be another release.  If any mission fixes are made please submit them and I will include them. 

I think we have done a good job of updating The Babylon Project for a new generation of players. 

Stay safe and healthy and have fun
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: starlord on March 24, 2020, 12:03:52 pm
Can trivial psychic transmit his version of in the beginning by any chance?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 24, 2020, 12:05:45 pm
Can trivial psychic transmit his version of in the beginning by any chance?

Please elaborate
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: starlord on March 24, 2020, 03:37:06 pm
As mentioned earlier in the thread, I was wondering if trivial psychic could transmit the WIP version of den5’s “in the beginning” campaign.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 24, 2020, 03:55:27 pm
I messaged him and he never got back to me
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: tomimaki on March 24, 2020, 06:12:55 pm
Any chance for better Hyperion and maybe other models from this post (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95947.msg1891184#msg1891184)?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 25, 2020, 04:55:15 am
I strongly suggest we don't use any of those sorts of hack to make the campaign appear first on the list. They always **** up the moment anything is changed.

As long as all campaigns and missions are sorted alphabetically, which I don't think can be changed, this will work. I also use it in my "The Dark Mod" Unofficial Patch!

Quote
If the mission really does need to be played before anything else, just make it the default campaign and include an explanation of how to change campaigns when it finishes.

That might work with the campaigns but not with the single missions...
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: karajorma on March 25, 2020, 09:59:54 am
I strongly suggest we don't use any of those sorts of hack to make the campaign appear first on the list. They always **** up the moment anything is changed.

As long as all campaigns and missions are sorted alphabetically, which I don't think can be changed, this will work. I also use it in my "The Dark Mod" Unofficial Patch!

And then someone changes the font and it all gets messed up. No. Just don't hack it in the first place!

Quote
That might work with the campaigns but not with the single missions...

Why on Earth would a single player mission need to be first on the list anyway? If it's necessary for new players to play it first, stick a campaign file on and make it the default campaign. And if it's not, then it doesn't need to be first on the list anyway.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 25, 2020, 11:35:27 am
And then someone changes the font and it all gets messed up. No. Just don't hack it in the first place!

Why would a font change alter anything? You mean somebody would use a font with not all characters? That would be bad in the first place as I bet a lot of special characters are used in the mission files...

Quote
Why on Earth would a single player mission need to be first on the list anyway?

This discussion started because "Achen Flying School" is listed as a campaign which it isn't. It's just a single mission which might confuse new players in regard of what a campaign is supposed to be! Also we have a real training campaign now, "Io Training Wing", and when 0rph3u5 suggested making single missions a seperate option in the main menu, my idea was to have a training mission in each of them. If everything stays like it is, we don't need any changes, but I would still prever "Achen Flying School" to be moved to the single mission menu.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Nightmare on March 25, 2020, 07:07:22 pm
I messaged him and he never got back to me

Maybe just try again? You just have to run after people if they don't reply.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Trivial Psychic on March 25, 2020, 08:23:47 pm
I've been a little reluctant to give it up... I started trying to convert it just before I was invited to join the mod team.  I haven't touched them since 2006 according to the last modified date of the files.

I started converting them and then learned about send-message-list sexp and decided to start from scratch again, using that.  Then I found out about the pit-falls of using them so I restarted using a few new skills I picked up, so I've got a few different sets of missions.  The only reason I'd include them if I pass the set along, is because I may have gotten further on the translations (that is managing to interpret what the poor Russian-to-English already in the missions actually meant to say) of some of the earlier incarnations of my missions than on the later ones.

The original missions used a specially modified Nova, including new textures, special weapons, and a stronger hull.  In the missions I just used texture replacement, some more powerful weapons from the existing pack, and the special hitpoints option in FRED.  The missions also used a Sathanas as a stand-in for a Shadow Vessel, but I switched it for the proper model.  The newer Nova model may require some new textures for the replacement, but SPOILER since the ship is basically a shadow Nova, someone may want to take a crack at actually modifying the model with more than a texture replacement.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 25, 2020, 08:59:39 pm
Spoiler:
there is a shadow nova in the ships list now
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 25, 2020, 09:25:41 pm
I am assuming that the 3.7.1 upload was successful as I have not heard any complaints
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: karajorma on March 26, 2020, 12:55:28 am
Why would a font change alter anything?

By using a trick and calling it "1o Training wing" we could make sure that it appears at the top of the list like the "Achen Flying School" before. With the current font the number can hardly be noticed ;)!

See? Don't do that. Don't hack it. Don't rename the file to a silly name that will become really obvious if we ever change the font.

Quote
This discussion started because "Achen Flying School" is listed as a campaign which it isn't. It's just a single mission which might confuse new players in regard of what a campaign is supposed to be! Also we have a real training campaign now, "Io Training Wing", and when 0rph3u5 suggested making single missions a seperate option in the main menu, my idea was to have a training mission in each of them. If everything stays like it is, we don't need any changes, but I would still prever "Achen Flying School" to be moved to the single mission menu.

Fine, but there is no reason to hack things to make them top of the list for the two or three players who might need it. Especially when hacks like that can cause major problems further down the line. For instance, what if the SCP decide to use the * as a special character to denote something else but we've followed your advice about naming missions using it? Just don't hack things! It's a really bad idea. As an SCP programmer you have no idea the number of times someone's dumb hack has prevented us from doing something cool. Just don't do it. You're borrowing trouble from tomorrow for a minor issue that next to no one will care about or notice today.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 26, 2020, 04:26:00 am
See? Don't do that. Don't hack it. Don't rename the file to a silly name that will become really obvious if we ever change the font.

Ah, now I understand! I didn't like that solution either which was why I proposed the other one.

Quote
For instance, what if the SCP decide to use the * as a special character to denote something else but we've followed your advice about naming missions using it?

Then it would take about 1 minute to use another character instead of *, if that really happens...
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: karajorma on March 26, 2020, 08:24:28 am
And then every single person has to download it. Assuming that there still is a TBP dev team at that point (there have been long periods when there basically wasn't).

Again, what benefit does this provide that makes it worth taking the (admittedly small) risk?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 26, 2020, 09:00:08 am
+1 for game_settings.tbl and just declaring a default campaign

Game_settings.tbl will also allow to add back the custom icon and "The Babylon Project"-header - https://wiki.hard-light.net/index.php/Game_settings.tbl#.24Window_title:
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 26, 2020, 09:33:38 am
+1 for game_settings.tbl and just declaring a default campaign

Okay, then I'm all for setting "Io Training Wing" the default campaign while moving "Achen Flying School" to single missions. It's the first mission there anyway :)!
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 27, 2020, 01:58:29 pm
I personally would rather see any efforts put toward actually coming up with new content.  No one is going to be thrown off by having the training missions the way they are and I don't want to have people downloading another release to fix something that is not broken.  For many years people have figured it out and I think they will do fine. 

Any new campaigns should be put out as addons to TBP.  With them they can make whatever changes to tables and screens that they want.  If was debated to do this for any of the updated campaigns but since all the ones I worked on used the default tables I decided it would be great to offer a single package for people to jump in and have plenty to play.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 27, 2020, 03:59:08 pm
I've done some voice work on this I think.....
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 27, 2020, 04:03:43 pm
I personally would rather see any efforts put toward actually coming up with new content.

You mean all existing content should be integrated in TBP. I doubt that anybody at the moment is working on new stuff, or is there?

Quote
Any new campaigns should be put out as addons to TBP.

I don't know how this would even be handled and would rather like to have everything inside of the main game. Also see above...

Anyway, I just started to play the Janus campaign and honestly I really dislike the new UI message and video popups! They are much too distracting, popping up right in the middle of the screen or taking too much room to the side which is really annoying during a fight. I think the original setup with having them small and located to the left side made much more sense and the mod should return to that setup!
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 27, 2020, 04:11:27 pm
Well you can change that in the config file to your personal taste.  This message setup is used in a lot of newer campaigns as well as other total conversions. 

You can't please everyone
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 27, 2020, 05:44:59 pm
Well you can change that in the config file to your personal taste.  This message setup is used in a lot of newer campaigns as well as other total conversions. 

Cool, I didn't know that! I might play around with this a bit. With newer campaigns you mean other FS2 mods? Maybe the old TBP ones just use much more text...

P.S.: Are there similar files to adjust the rest of the hub? Cause the "Wingmen" windows is still cut off on the right side and it also overlaps with the "Monitoring" windows if more than two wings are active, the same goes for the "Video" window which overlaps with the "Directives" window. Everything looks crowed compared to the original...

P.S.: All of the above is valid for the default resolution of 1024x768 and it does get better if you increase the resolution, but I think it should look good in every resolution!
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 30, 2020, 01:22:47 pm
Can someone please at least answer or better even take a look at the new HUD at the default resolution? I get more overlapping of damage windows and message windows or special messages like in the Vorlon campaign with everything else. And of course the backlog gets cut off all the time. Has anyone even tested the new HUD on lower resolutions? I'm pretty sure all of us have large monitors, but at default setting it looks like a complete mess and this is where new players will probabyl start!

Also what is the command to disable the HUD inside of a mission because I now get the Starfury HUD during cutscenes of the Vorlon campaign and I can't remember seeing this before. Has this been changed? Last not least during the Janus campaign the progression was not saved and I noticed some textual mismatches with the Babylon 5 universe that are not part of the missions, but stored in some tables or elsewhere. Like "Subspace drive engaged" when it should be "Jumpgate triggered" or similar as I don't think you ever play as a ship that can open it's own jumppoint. And "Return to base" which basically means jump to subspace in FS2, but again should be "Reach nearest jumpgate" or similar in TBP. And "Engine failure, can not engage warp drive" which should be "Can't jump without jumpgate" or similar. I guess this is all in strings.tbl, so how it can be edited in the easiest way?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 30, 2020, 02:32:23 pm
First off what Vorlon campaign are you talking about (what is the exact name)?

The new hug table was developed for 1920X1080.  If you run a lower resolution than that you will have to go in and make the changes you want. 

You can make changes to position and font sizes in:

hud_gauges.tbl

fonts.tbl

axmessage.cfg   for instance

"Position": {
    "Origin": [
      0.5,
      0.65
    ],

will move the message box to below the recticle.



As for changes in missions you will have to take that up with Karajoma or Orph3u5 as I am not up to speed to fix missions.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 30, 2020, 03:32:21 pm
First off what Vorlon campaign are you talking about (what is the exact name)?

That's "Guardian of Light". A Vorlon talks to you during the missions which is basically displayed where the messages are displayed right now! So we might have a problem with the new HUD in any mission where authors assumed the original setup...

Quote
The new hud table was developed for 1920X1080.  If you run a lower resolution than that you will have to go in and make the changes you want.

Huh, that was a little bit naive, wasn't it? I mean if you adjust everything at default 1024x768 it will look great at any higher resolution. If you do it the other way around, it looks good at 1920x1080 and probably messy at any other lower resolution!

Quote
You can make changes to position and font sizes in:

hud_gauges.tbl

fonts.tbl

So what tool would I use to edit these tables?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 30, 2020, 05:45:32 pm
You can use Notepad++ to edit the files.


You could always revert back to the old setup.  Just see what files need to be deleted and replace the font table with the old one.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 30, 2020, 06:21:44 pm
I personally would rather see any efforts put toward actually coming up with new content.

You mean all existing content should be integrated in TBP. I doubt that anybody at the moment is working on new stuff, or is there?

Quote
Any new campaigns should be put out as addons to TBP.

I don't know how this would even be handled and would rather like to have everything inside of the main game. Also see above...

*raises hand*
I am working on a campaign, currently I am in a phase which involves stuff that is technical minutae to non-FREDers (I was able to change to tracks to work on another project because some of the execution is based on shared principles - its very synergetic). The nature and lenght of the campaign means its also hard to really show stuff, not mention that a lot will be filled placeholder graphics.

Integrating all content is going to be difficult going forward. Some of the fancier systems acutally rely on addon tables and having multiple of those are going to cause conflicts, and it is not always practical to intregrate those into the main install. A prime example is iff_defs.tbl which handles the "teams" during a mission (e.g. Friendly, Hostile, Non-Combatant). The limit on possible IFFs is 8, and it is a very useful category for mission design as you can run distance checks and arrival anchors of e.g. <any hostile>.

However, making a seperate release on Knossos that uses TBP as a dependency is really easy. It's two easy to do steps which are required part of making new mod on Knossos anyway: 1) Inputting that the Mod is dependency of TBP and 2) setting a compatible version of TBP for the mod you are creating. After that you can go hogwild in your own little corner without worry if you are going to break the main TBP install.



re: Training Messages

To be fair, the Training Messages were never actually meant to be used that way they are used in many old campaigns - they were meant for the tutorial missions only. But with limited ressources they were frequently approriated to display stage directions or hints. Today, you would either use the show-subtitle-text SEXP or a custom HUD gauge - but both were either underdeveloped or non-existent back then. (I think we had the old, hard-to-handle show-subtitle SEXP back when 3.4b released)

I remember that I did move them for my own work, but until I have the custom Detector and Timer gauges up and running for TBP, I don't have any results to share. I moved them unter the reticle and above the radar.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 31, 2020, 04:04:04 am
You can use Notepad++ to edit the files.

Indeed, they are normal text files :). And here I was thinking they are packed or something. I will start on the text issues right now!

Quote
You could always revert back to the old setup.  Just see what files need to be deleted and replace the font table with the old one.

I will do some experiments! Maybe it is possible to keep the new font and just move the elements around to fit lower resolutions...
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 31, 2020, 10:23:37 am
I am working on a campaign, currently I am in a phase which involves stuff that is technical minutae to non-FREDers (I was able to change to tracks to work on another project because some of the execution is based on shared principles - its very synergetic).

Cool! But you are already working in the core mod development too, so maybe you can find a way to merge your changes so we don't need TBP mods?

Quote
To be fair, the Training Messages were never actually meant to be used that way they are used in many old campaigns - they were meant for the tutorial missions only.

I wasn't aware these were Training Messages, thanks for the tip :)! I have now moved them to be above the new message window and below the damage window, which I moved up a bit too. I also adjusted all other elements that were overlapping so they look good at the default resolution! Exceptions will still happen if missions have too many directives or monitor too many ships, in that case we could only fix these missions instead because there just is no room. Of course the updated HUD works as fine as before in higher resolutions! I will send the archive to OverDhill to integrate in an upcoming TBP 3.7.2 if possible.

Now that I know that the tables are simple text files ;), I also replaced all string references of "subspace" with "hyperspace" and "warp" with "jump". I set "Io Training Wing" as the default campaign and the default Centauri beam color to yellow as shown in the TV show! I know these last changes might be disputable, but I think they would make sense as well. Last not least I have one request that we should discuss openly because it's a rather personal matter:

I really hate the default mission loading screen which shows the Excalibur from Crusade. I think this ship is absolutely not typical for Babylon 5 in being a design and technical absurdity and should therefore not be that prominent in TBP! It's not called "The Crusade Project" after all and I would suggest to replace it with the new logo which at the moment is only visible if you select TBP details in Knossos.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 31, 2020, 01:10:02 pm
Orph3u5 new campaign will be an addon as he has very custom tables. An addon can overwrite a default table so he can make as many changes as he wants. 

I am going over the tweaks you sent me and I have started a 3.7.2 release candidate.  I will make what adjustments I see fit for higher resolutions but still not have an impact on your extremely low rez.  There is just a lot of stuff on the screen to try and run it that low.  I would be curious in this day and age as to what resolutions people are using. 

Of coarse you can always run your own tweaks

I am going to modify the The new axmessage box so that it can be centered on the screen but not interfere with the items on each side (again there is a not a lot of real state to work wiith at 1024X768. The way you tweaked it has it off center which at a higher rez looks bad. 

Stay tuned
 
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 31, 2020, 02:36:41 pm
I am going over the tweaks you sent me and I have started a 3.7.2 release candidate.

Thanks! Of course many people use higher resolutions today, but when you install TBP it defaults to 1024x768 which is why I discovered the mess in the first place when I made a clean Knossos 0.14 and TBP 3.7.0 installation. Also as it's not easy finding where to change the resolution in Knossos, the first impression thus might be bad...

Quote
Of coarse you can always run your own tweaks.

I may update my Unofficial Patch if the difference is too large, but I would rather see everything in the core game!

Quote
I am going to modify the The new axmessage box so that it can be centered on the screen but not interfere with the items on each side (again there is a not a lot of real state to work wiith at 1024X768. The way you tweaked it has it off center which at a higher rez looks bad.

I didn't like this myself and it could be easily fixed if it could be make thinner which I didn't manage to do though...
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on March 31, 2020, 04:01:14 pm
But you are already working in the core mod development too, so maybe you can find a way to merge your changes so we don't need TBP mods?

While it is technically possible to merge my changes into the core at this stage, it would not be good practice as they are highly specific and for the most part hardly applicable to anything else. The mod support for FS_Open was designed for the just such a scenario and Knossos was programmed to enable its use to the fullest.

There are issue with having mods via Knossos, and that's just with the current development stage of Knossos: the lack of a Sort or Category functions in the Explore-tab. But I've been working around that little hurdle too:
(https://i.imgur.com/MSbg62h.png)

I've to clear that with the Knossos dev staff, as that's a bit of a hack, but one task at a time.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on March 31, 2020, 04:08:42 pm
There are issue with having mods via Knossos, and that's just with the current development stage of Knossos: the lack of a Sort or Category functions in the Explore-tab. But I've been working around that little hurdle too:

That looks good :)! But I would shorten (for The Babylon Project) to (for TBP) so it doesn't get cut off ;).
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on March 31, 2020, 04:29:28 pm
Actually I would name it such that it sits next to The Babylon Project in Knossos if at all possible till they get a sort or category function. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on April 01, 2020, 01:53:54 am
Actually I would name it such that it sits next to The Babylon Project in Knossos if at all possible till they get a sort or category function. 

That's a great idea! Maybe like TBP: Title...
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: wesp5 on April 01, 2020, 03:25:52 am
Okay, right now I have access to a PC with TBP 3.6.32 still installed, so I looked at the HUD at the default low resolution and at maximum HD and there was lots of empty space everywhere. Why isn't that with the new HUD? It's not a matter of the new message addon or the new wingmen addon although the latter is prone to overlapping if too many wings are used. It seems as if the new HUD isn't scaled correctly or something! Can't we get the new message and wingmen addons included in the old HUD? The old HUD basically looks the same at every resolution and the new one does not! Also where is the table for the old HUD? And why is hyperspace suddenly filled with pink clouds? That was looking much better in 3.6.32 too!
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on April 03, 2020, 12:33:03 pm
we have been tweaking the hud to accommodate lower resolutions. Here is the new setup at 1024X768 and 1920X1080





Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Su-tehp on April 03, 2020, 07:32:37 pm
Damn, but that looks nice.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on April 03, 2020, 09:01:53 pm
Newer update to solve overlap issues
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Nightmare on April 04, 2020, 08:29:57 am
Nice :yes:
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: OverDhill on April 16, 2020, 01:05:51 pm
TBP 3.7.2 has been released

Small mission bug fixes and HUD changes
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Nightmare on April 16, 2020, 02:18:00 pm
 :yes:

Thread title update?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: tomimaki on April 16, 2020, 03:02:18 pm
Any chance for better Hyperion and maybe other models from this post (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95947.msg1891184#msg1891184)?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Su-tehp on April 16, 2020, 05:50:19 pm
Any chance for better Hyperion and maybe other models from this post (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95947.msg1891184#msg1891184)?

 :jaw:
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.0 Released
Post by: Nightmare on April 16, 2020, 07:55:33 pm
Any chance for better Hyperion and maybe other models from this post (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95947.msg1891184#msg1891184)?

This
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: OverDhill on April 20, 2020, 10:57:30 pm
If anyone has any improvements they would like to share just send them to me and I will check them out. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: OverDhill on April 24, 2020, 11:21:54 am
TBP 3.7.3 has been released
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on April 26, 2020, 08:52:33 pm
Any chance for better Hyperion and maybe other models from this post (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95947.msg1891184#msg1891184)?

wow! love to see the new hyperion finally is in game ;)

edit: damn! I don't see the glow maps there ... Maybe I had lost them

edit2: I cheked: I have the glow maps texture if you want it

edit3: and a Photoshop file for custom logo and naming (and less saturated blue colour)  :)

edit4: I don't know if I already shared it, but I found the "high poly" Omega :D
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on April 27, 2020, 05:13:47 am
You didn't had any luck/time to find your old TBP install with all the fancy stuff right?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on April 27, 2020, 05:09:16 pm
You didn't had any luck/time to find your old TBP install with all the fancy stuff right?
I had check 2/3 backup hardrives, still nothing..
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on April 27, 2020, 05:28:46 pm
How many backup drives are left? 0, 2, 5 or more?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on April 28, 2020, 08:07:01 am
How many backup drives are left? 0, 2, 5 or more?
3 backup drives, I checked 2 of 3
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on April 28, 2020, 08:46:54 am
So it must be the 3rd then. Hopefully. :nervous:
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: tomimaki on May 01, 2020, 06:32:05 am
Any chance for better Hyperion and maybe other models from this post (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95947.msg1891184#msg1891184)?

wow! love to see the new hyperion finally is in game ;)

edit: damn! I don't see the glow maps there ... Maybe I had lost them

edit2: I cheked: I have the glow maps texture if you want it

edit3: and a Photoshop file for custom logo and naming (and less saturated blue colour)  :)

edit4: I don't know if I already shared it, but I found the "high poly" Omega :D

Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: starlord on May 01, 2020, 08:29:29 am
I remember a YouTube vid featuring a walker ship. Has it ever been implemented?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 01, 2020, 12:18:39 pm
Sadly not.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: starlord on May 12, 2020, 03:30:11 pm
Pity. That model was beyond awesome.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 14, 2020, 01:31:00 pm


I'll upload it ASAP.



I remember a YouTube vid featuring a walker ship. Has it ever been implemented?

You're right guys. That model was in game but I never released.
It had a lot of geometry problems. It was ingame but when it starts, showed a warning about that model.
Anyway i'm working on a new one. I'm testing export it into poof file right now.. So far so good.

(https://ff1fkw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mFOxMmiO9vwvmgIr1WljGhvjrK9B-0l3uNBVO8vE3rvHTUufLA_n0UtyPf1o9CVysFmpAQVzTNEzxCzgDdC5zm1pbxruysybk3HdwOw5MbA6vcHB1HUcvLNPEzgEb0o4bcJlOTAtg8tTBjjDBqGh43YbX7bG-xwd-GJjtXs1__FfvYjyenRwkgR4h28Z31Gks?width=1595&height=826&cropmode=none)
Is WIP.

A CALL FOR HELP.
I'll need help with FRED tables, and with the poof editor: hardpoint and all that.

Oh! and I don't have the game installed, and I don't know how to download and install it anymore with Knossos, zathras, mods and all of that, any help with that will be appreciated :)

Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: wesp5 on May 14, 2020, 02:57:24 pm
Get the Knossos version and Knossos itself from the link below. No need for Zathras anymore, but you need to install FSO using Knossos afterwards! It would be cool if 1) we could make it so that FSO is installed when installing TBP and 2) somebody would add this link the the old TBP homepage!

https://fsnebula.org/mod/TBP
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 14, 2020, 06:32:06 pm
Are you planning to add the rotating glowpoints too? ;7
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 14, 2020, 09:53:19 pm
Get the Knossos version and Knossos itself from the link below. No need for Zathras anymore, but you need to install FSO using Knossos afterwards! It would be cool if 1) we could make it so that FSO is installed when installing TBP and 2) somebody would add this link the the old TBP homepage!

https://fsnebula.org/mod/TBP

well, it worked like a charm! It's very easy and intuitive, love to be back! :)
I just finish Dark Children Campaign, love to see how TBP looks now. I really like to see those post process fx and shadows.

I notice some details
-The default ambien light is too strong and kill the shadows effects. Now that we have real shadows, it's a pity barely see them. B5 show didn't have ambient ligth and had strongs shadows. This can be fix using  "-ambient_factor 0" flag. Could be great if that was a default option.
-I also experiment some glicht with black shockwabe fx, can be fix with some shockwave flag too.


Things I like to change/ update to make it look like the show:
1) The specular maps. I think I redone those when I did the normal maps. For example, the Brakiri Avioki ship have bad specular maps.
2) Gun fires: I had some "new" gun fire fx on the old TPB folder,  they look too much better (it weren't so hard on the edges,  had some gradient) and it felt so different and imersive with the high poly models. I dont know if I have it, but make new ones can't be a difficult task.
3) 3th person view: The starfury, for example, the 3th person view look too distant. Now that we have a highpoly model with shadows we can have a close up.
4) Cockpit: I don't know if it's possible but I'd love to have a starfury Cockpit model in game. I don't know for the rest of the ships, but it's one of the most used ships.
Back then I didn't know how, now I can do it, I can model it.
5) Models: I love to update some models/textures

Also, I notice that the new Hyperion isn't in game yet, is there any reason for that?


Are you planning to add the rotating glowpoints too? ;7
You bet! ;)


I'll upload it ASAP.
Here are the Highpoly Hyperion missing maps: Glow and a Editable Photoshop file.
https://we.tl/t-UGchalTVa4
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: wesp5 on May 15, 2020, 01:52:37 am
-The default ambien light is too strong and kill the shadows effects. Now that we have real shadows, it's a pity barely see them. B5 show didn't have ambient ligth and had strongs shadows. This can be fix using  "-ambient_factor 0" flag. Could be great if that was a default option.

Ahhh, I suspected something like that, but where can we set this flag? It's can't find it in the normal FSO options.

Quote
-I also experiment some glicht with black shockwabe fx, can be fix with some shockwave flag too.

This would be enable 3D shockwaves and yes, this should be set as default too!
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on May 15, 2020, 05:39:06 am
A CALL FOR HELP.
I'll need help with FRED tables, and with the poof editor: hardpoint and all that.

PM me, and the very least I can help with tables and some of the intermediate .pof-stuff.

-The default ambien light is too strong and kill the shadows effects. Now that we have real shadows, it's a pity barely see them. B5 show didn't have ambient ligth and had strongs shadows. This can be fix using  "-ambient_factor 0" flag. Could be great if that was a default option.

Ahhh, I suspected something like that, but where can we set this flag? It's can't find it in the normal FSO options.

It's a a custom command line option or "Custom Flag", you have to set in manually

-The default ambien light is too strong and kill the shadows effects. Now that we have real shadows, it's a pity barely see them. B5 show didn't have ambient ligth and had strongs shadows. This can be fix using  "-ambient_factor 0" flag. Could be great if that was a default option.
-I also experiment some glicht with black shockwabe fx, can be fix with some shockwave flag too.

Things I like to change/ update to make it look like the show:
1) The specular maps. I think I redone those when I did the normal maps. For example, the Brakiri Avioki ship have bad specular maps.

There hasn't been someone with graphics expertise working on the Knossos version as far as I can tell.

Setting a baseline for several graphics settings is no problem with the proper Knossos-access.

2) Gun fires: I had some "new" gun fire fx on the old TPB folder,  they look too much better (it weren't so hard on the edges,  had some gradient) and it felt so different and imersive with the high poly models. I dont know if I have it, but make new ones can't be a difficult task.

Do you mean Muzzleflashes? - If you can make the graphics, I can make the tables.

3) 3th person view: The starfury, for example, the 3th person view look too distant. Now that we have a highpoly model with shadows we can have a close up.

The Chase View being ... what it is, is global problem with FS Open, going back all the way to vanilla.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 15, 2020, 10:58:28 am
PM me, and the very least I can help with tables and some of the intermediate .pof-stuff.
I just did  :)


Quote
It's a a custom command line option or "Custom Flag", you have to set in manually
Quote
Ahhh, I suspected something like that, but where can we set this flag? It's can't find it in the normal FSO options.
Yes, the "ambient_factor 0" flag worked.


There hasn't been someone with graphics expertise working on the Knossos version as far as I can tell.

Setting a baseline for several graphics settings is no problem with the proper Knossos-access.
Could be great to set it as default  :)


Do you mean Muzzleflashes? - If you can make the graphics, I can make the tables.
Yes! and the gunfires fx itself. I just found a mod made by Slasher on the Forum's Personal Messages, that had Muzzleflashes, update gunfire fx, and "hit and burning" decal fx, I reamenber that was so great! I tried to use it as a mod now but shows some table errors warnings. Could be awesome if we can implement that.


The Chase View being ... what it is, is global problem with FS Open, going back all the way to vanilla.
oh! that a pity. Maybe changing the FOV? I'll have to test it.


Oh! and GOOD NEWS:
I found some of the poof models that I was looking for  :D
They were on PM and in my old mediafire account. I had an update Hyperion, Olympus, Shalin, Tinashi, Warlock and Nova models... and the B5 Lens flare fx ;) ... but they will need proper tables
Also found a Crusade sound mod I made back then. Some new explosion, new hyperspace and jump point fx that are not mine.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 15, 2020, 05:44:40 pm
UPDATE:
New Nova ingame, it will need some minor hardpoint edit

(https://fv1fkw.by.files.1drv.com/y4msd22yTsv-684PCAJ3WZOeSZTVaOYdopwefkV74dajamgvRl3XYllhPEzD8W_sXPlknikmwnjvAbaf0SHjsNlPwNeF4xYDuuAKRh9jsNHRVJe-Ob2FVdqC26RqtyGEokL3fPqDxe9Ouoxg0xdM-Rr3QCzfNZXBSYnW-HWtkzvhzM8kdxycYBUQH3lZi_VC0pw?width=1600&height=900&cropmode=none)


New Sharlin ingame, the hardpoint looks good, but it will need some testing. It will need normal maps, should not be a difficult task.

(https://el1fkw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mDcNw5jvudUlhiQuAzdiXx_9VfpKRhnAOpYbifXktElYYWF9yEperGY1fse0RewY2UkyoI_Vl0A80PgM1oNc_FTPkCBHbt9BBTth7y0DJGcXCc64Clr--LErZKKKd7_5jRTmBRNz7By0olVob2Rsi3KkgvNxULMsGY1I6-Pw2pcClMrmE7tmRp5ITzFuiD56F?width=1600&height=900&cropmode=none)


New Olympus ingame, it will need hardpoints.

(https://e11fkw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mrwvpu1p8q0VPO2bn6YKFuV3SuYJ0ZhGK8CpYEd-Rja3o04rn_XERvU1ryLUDMsT1gSu5QAptg5CP_3m9oJlstajt9q1uMB35m6KdIwpsqLAVWEUOgj6MgCoGAZdrveLni1RfYl1o-Id3WpDFT1YGrRAO1OrfquWN1JsiX_REkhYNSkTmQBgvVYdz6cdb7qL7?width=1600&height=900&cropmode=none)

New Warlock ingame, it will need normal maps, and some hardpoint edit
(https://gf1fkw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mjRjSE4Pt4YkyYwXHznO0vF2i9GrzC_iisWzLw_-fXMlruplhNaDvc2EQtKWwmOvGZy5s0mGYz5kh1HDTRt5fgN_cY_AjzgJj2Oiltk2yKqbpT2Vt8ZIjQ-xIkjoh7zvjElmWo3Eg225uo-5FOLBV9L_fUmvVZNMd6avHT1xQTUrflg1vJAi0Oe0gGQroZc2a?width=1600&height=900&cropmode=none)


-B5 Lens flare fx: doesn't work, It may need some table edit.

-"hit and burning" decal fx: it works, and looks amazing. Also it has a new "smoke" fx that works really well with the bloom fx, looks similar to the show. It also has some Muzzleflashes and new wepons gunfire fx (like a new centauri gunfire fx, that look more similar to the show too)

-New jump point, looks good to me
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 15, 2020, 06:15:15 pm
Oh my oh my, that's awesome :eek: :eek2:
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on May 15, 2020, 08:09:02 pm
Neat.

Send them along with the Walker and I will see what I can do about those too.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on May 15, 2020, 08:21:20 pm
Any chance for better Hyperion and maybe other models from this post (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95947.msg1891184#msg1891184)?

Also had a look at the model - needs a bit of work essepcially when it comes to subobjects to fully compatible with TBP (e.g. the engines aren't seperate from the main full)

I will draw up a checklist and pass it along later this weekend.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 15, 2020, 09:23:43 pm
Neat.
Send them along with the Walker and I will see what I can do about those too.

I'm preparing a rar file with all the mods.

About the Chase View:
Changing the Fov to 0.45 do the trick, It feels more in a proper scale now, B5 looks huge! and the omega too.

I'm also experimenting with the post process fx to make it look more like the show .. I always thought the game look to saturated.

With the FOV, the new post process change and all this mods (highpoly models, Muzzleflashes, etc) fells like a different game, a more modern one, and it's looking good!

Also had a look at the model - needs a bit of work essepcially when it comes to subobjects to fully compatible with TBP (e.g. the engines aren't seperate from the main full)
I will draw up a checklist and pass it along later this weekend.
Sure! It can be done
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: wesp5 on May 16, 2020, 01:50:29 am
With the FOV, the new post process change and all this mods (highpoly models, Muzzleflashes, etc) fells like a different game, a more modern one, and it's looking good!

Sounds great :)! And thanks for the custom flag tip, this looks so much better...
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 16, 2020, 11:28:15 am
Sounds great :)! And thanks for the custom flag tip, this looks so much better...
My pleasure! :)

Looks what I found  :D ...

(https://fv0wiq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mCh-G30dfvbLJ3MSBkFfBXH2r305CNDikCK9vVWTKVrrTO3ucL1O9b3jyoCHnE9UvIXLbMyOm6SyT2V5atabdjShYJaqEoASboHl9dF4SgjFNmTIyPGKDYKe823WiyLvL8ImovLmmo7_pI4eJ68ZU0Vs9Pu9bl4gpfHrtzN93-ryZFvz8wVZGEo7-XJTjs1bZ?width=1600&height=900&cropmode=none)

(https://ff0wiq.by.files.1drv.com/y4m23LTvTJ3ksVM9azdEKkLIWSZP5rrkwHXK7jtBq0imlFjK9COZnViS63NV-6yH1XTcK87kaP4i3fhQ5_SXpxT0GPW3o38sahWiKC3ECiPrbUmqtMxWZarvKQjEaTh4tKkRQliRIVXABgX5tqrD0a6Yw6eL2kS-3vZRjQilohC62RIoeflHQ5Jv-fDDMClTWDv?width=1600&height=900&cropmode=none)
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 16, 2020, 01:38:19 pm
 :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: icewind_123 on May 16, 2020, 04:44:15 pm
A new version of the Babylon Project? Holy smokes, just in time for me after I started watching B5 again  :lol: . The series makes even more sense watching it as an adult, understanding the context and references. May Valen bless all of you.

Oh what time has passed. Was a student then, am a teacher now :D . I created 3 missions with my brother back then and started a campaign. Sadly the files are all gone, but I was having a blast 13 years ago playing through all the available missions and stuff.

Link from the past
https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=41684.0;topicseen

Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: tomimaki on May 16, 2020, 06:28:57 pm
Hey, I like what I see.  :cool:
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Su-tehp on May 16, 2020, 08:10:22 pm
I didn't watch B5 when it was airing on TV as I was watching Deep Space 9 at that same time slot (dueling shows mean you have to choose one over the other), but on a lark I picked up the DVD of Season 1 of B5 from Barnes and Noble one day and was immediately hooked. Now I can enjoy both shows on my Blu-Ray player whenever I want. :cool: :nod: :D
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 16, 2020, 08:44:56 pm
I didn't watch B5 when it was airing on TV as I was watching Deep Space 9 at that same time slot (dueling shows mean you have to choose one over the other), but on a lark I picked up the DVD of Season 1 of B5 from Barnes and Noble one day and was immediately hooked. Now I can enjoy both shows on my Blu-Ray player whenever I want. :cool: :nod: :D

I remember one of Emis trailers he made ingame years back looked like they were ripped straight from the TV show, but the show didn't the same video quality and resolution.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 18, 2020, 04:58:44 pm
(https://e10wiq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mLavCnJiOuCS7kLKNUIN88jvM9CUACoaNeDDKp9cspHg96EhEi_jqUdYEnxmnXkprNPnjK9mw-fDhpJibAPwz9RgamO2LpGH27Kektvs4CLHbQeNp9YdWWec2jbFeEjIUySWEjSSfBBH64qg4XcMlPodYqNHxmy7DCnzETkOrklEAu_fQyF9g9885BNhzef_H?width=1246&height=646&cropmode=none)

Giving the Explorer a little love


edit
(https://gv0wiq.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhq-CVQsdEmmagQRX9kWKYLYJJTyNu2GfKRDFAlnWD3cVq8UJW-TPRqOkosSnm542d_bz-hGcgoZZu5LnQxhfkh5RSLMT-GhEj7JmtNXrashrBRJ3uJetDWfDRfvUrHf7bJWPkhXf_zzMe3v3KpVCQdzWho6ubqgxwVo932u6whtPhTVe0fWWY8ECOibEfbjs?width=988&height=649&cropmode=none)

(https://dl17fa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mH68UAuGyegI8RaC0ZAwlrE7IugmUm0B5zCHgl0YTUq70nY7f0-24c5W3_7UH0d8jUVQNWIack2wYp2APDwmOx4DDb7CYzjjsLx0AgrCoSjQ9lZejf9aavrvifyB5mIgHLP9xpdOAGjvLI3-cY703_q875BCCtTSwUuS5hBcfudNEfv5cTMWhPyRVm0kKAHuE?width=1115&height=653&cropmode=none)

(https://ev17fa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mNGkt-B3W8KQJUhLSbBXzjrKDKI-CWn2gUbp-0G88VX2YbiExJW5UUX-n3EZnrkSGWH0DIW4EzxpXoYsuuWKhwJE9yLH7T91j4yYJjbBpA_4ULJYLJyCxSc_wmgfOGdDvbxCJnb5VYhE2aNRplSF_EnXY1M5SsANm9fqVsKz175Xt5z-uKCOMqgwnggJrEQu2?width=1189&height=656&cropmode=none)

(https://ef17fa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mIflpCFEIdodN7xorYmzJU7h7Ox4srs56240qjKTB4-cobCYRfKoNjKW3D0ToPNRQqvsrES1x5jX5pGujYL1wq5GoP8NxsArIBlGTWzPB2mpcvku8tSzrwR4hfNtVc_Q21fmjC3OnuvJ3Tx2K4XRefPIjfvkDibzKLeXe4NiLIUxsQv7_NAO4L_WmMgEiKwCM?width=1202&height=632&cropmode=none)

(https://gf0wiq.by.files.1drv.com/y4m5aJtnENWxyR-ZPcxKxvr2zr-icJlLBC3wG789Npvz3Dz7U2Y00pgoK71TKEDXO55kQU0hJ8dtZ5ZKuU9NHcH8NAORzd04ulA3xFKH2pLOVrYHaOI1Sg_woxFeHc46CEkPuTuqron6iRI6YOeI911ynzchADcH7_jyu83Xq1QzYzbgYKk07vHifLx1d3AhJQt?width=1219&height=622&cropmode=none)
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 18, 2020, 07:15:20 pm
Quote
Giving the Explorer a little love

More like "a lot of" :D :yes:
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 18, 2020, 08:22:49 pm
More like "a lot of" :D :yes:
:D


(https://d117fa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mQFs0xG51nGLpHJpTn12GqMIpEizYVzkaLYDAigDRXNwa5E4rjW2TDUM-HAF9h3zlSV0D-cy3VP6njhWy-Uw-tWR71cFnqUl75KxbI0YdJtEtTByqbnkze98C6MRlBEhv4WQAmG0CNEj5MLLSLjd0tEABGTn6CZntbXbR-vDKTAbRcCjyaAJNFUlYzsv0PM-6?width=1600&height=900&cropmode=none)

Done.
I updated some of the topology and used some new maps of some parts as you can see.


Please let me know were can I upload the files so this can be in the next update of Knossos.


Question: is there is any flag to incresee the shadow distance draw?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 18, 2020, 08:57:31 pm
Cool! :nod:

Quote
Please let me know were can I upload the files so this can be in the next update of Knossos.

I think there's an SVN where the files are being uploaded to, but I don't know who's in charge of that.

Quote
Question: is there is any flag to incresee the shadow distance draw?

The only thing you can edit ingame is the shadow quality AFAIK.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: wesp5 on May 19, 2020, 02:21:04 am
Quote
Please let me know were can I upload the files so this can be in the next update of Knossos.

I think there's an SVN where the files are being uploaded to, but I don't know who's in charge of that.

You should contact OverDhill, he is managing the updates most of the time!
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 19, 2020, 06:39:54 pm
Thanks for the answer!

next update

(https://fv17fa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mTJ2zAqmOwoAZCkdMzCmlFzPy0RB238Jk4H3G3OgykHVVi2EpKdv2wGTG43bWa_9J_23mxaDX2ra1ckW5LpUA2bpDi0Nylro-U9M2x8tbxj2KKl4764Lm1CsoxjBssVWxlqlVN9GvFmvrOE3B8_GUEmUh1ZCWv-P_WRMFmC9qm3PGPHx5WCUlc3hu9l54esFU?width=1215&height=661&cropmode=none)
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 19, 2020, 06:48:17 pm
Nice! But what am I looking at exactly?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 19, 2020, 06:50:15 pm
you'll see :D
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: karajorma on May 20, 2020, 07:06:07 am
The solar panels are a dead giveaway. B5 and B4 don't have that kind. But I'll let emi_100 keep the surprise.

Quote
Please let me know were can I upload the files so this can be in the next update of Knossos.

I think there's an SVN where the files are being uploaded to, but I don't know who's in charge of that.

I am. It's not particularly a secret, anyone who wants to playtest is welcome, not just those of us who want to work on updates. Just send me a PM with the email address you'd like to use and I'll add you.

Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Trivial Psychic on May 20, 2020, 08:25:52 am
Nice! But what am I looking at exactly?
If I had to guess, I'd say an EA jumpgate.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 20, 2020, 11:04:43 am
I am. It's not particularly a secret, anyone who wants to playtest is welcome, not just those of us who want to work on updates. Just send me a PM with the email address you'd like to use and I'll add you.
I've send you a PM.

If I had to guess, I'd say an EA jumpgate.
We have a winner! :D

Question about textures.
Is there any size limit for textures? 1024x1024 / 2048x2048 / +?
Should I use one big texture with all the maps there? or should I use separate for each one's?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 20, 2020, 12:26:17 pm
New jump gate? Super sw33t!

I think the only texture limit FSO has is 32k (32768*32768). Should be enough... I've seen 16k x 8k textures for 3D planets, the largest map made for a mod ship is 8k. 4k is quite common recently, blame Nyctaeus. :D
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: OverDhill on May 20, 2020, 11:19:43 pm
Any improvements or fixes can be send to me as I am working on the 3.7.3 release

PM for my email or send me a link
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 20, 2020, 11:24:14 pm
Jumpgate update WIP
My reference are HD renders from the original model.

(https://el17fa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mPSYur06YiDKyn9JN535RjYm-gNwQ5kz87ZjkAnO8zu7III2HSGOr8qLAVuH9osLLXk7nv109zyJAkYC24g5t8PgBxOP4DJk6zZ8kggcgcuLDZ7C4pyidvj9eUlExB3KZi3oXMkZvcR5xmYvUqq9oAphQjR58KjXE3TFrmo5HQeadNrlt40BRWEkjzF1n2K9e?width=1197&height=705&cropmode=none)

(https://gf17fa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mv8ReO5zQOFwu91dtJqPm_2OhVMC_jj2Nbx4aP3_DwQfL_2nrZB0uTLl3qcjygD-DlMSXeYQGgZIkjihaabCjISe92JWC-iSus7Zgq-V2RC7fiywBdiDmHgZyD3yetlR_VRjjJyf35ZzfDBr4Dy9UfY0niPDcwjGrHvqLE8UNCiLNCFXL6vYNUytwF7M4TGwd?width=1112&height=687&cropmode=none)

(https://e117fa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mAoMtM0nvTB4R2s_UHIxzYN5SkXSwC4yooIfq1Gv4PpcJvNlmvWle6xsqnLMw6YVR0U5yhElzcBU6W5H6wBakPcCUz-EQFv_eCrp71cxLoSxwM3LvexgdolAUeAgC-HhGFdLyDQa-IRYbeLyC4u5vIWOA8z5GUJ933rU5aRTXVTU3HSvDmW64Ol96IUtvStRq?width=758&height=701&cropmode=none)
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Su-tehp on May 20, 2020, 11:36:26 pm
Huh, I'm probably misremembering, but the jump gates in the TV show struck me as having a more oblong/oval opening rather than being perfectly symmetrical. I remember the horizontal prongs being wider than the vertical prongs. I thought it was this asymmetry that resulted in the hyperspace openings to be oval rather than circular. But, again, I could be wrong.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 21, 2020, 07:43:54 am
Jump gates appear in a number of shapes though.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Trivial Psychic on May 21, 2020, 07:54:31 am
I too seem to remember them as being a bit more of a laterally-stretched diamond shape, rather than the all-right-angles one.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on May 21, 2020, 11:55:58 am
Some of that is persepective as you are looking through the jump gate ... but the video evidence actually shows that the top and lower pylons have a wider angles between the solar panels...

See 1:20+ here:

... which if I observe that correctly makes the "newer"/EA jumpgate based on a eliptical shape which is a larger version of the jump points elipse.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but unlike the show the jump points in TBP are circular not eliptical - so it makes sense of the jump gate to be based of a cricle as well.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on May 21, 2020, 12:06:51 pm
Also, at least in Thirdspace there is a mention that jumpgates can be reconfigured by moving the pylons
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 21, 2020, 01:03:13 pm
The only special variant I remember was one with 3 pylons... but it's been a while since I watched the show.

Here are some more pictures: https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Jumpgate
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 21, 2020, 02:20:29 pm
Here are the main differences.
Ingame model / Render model from the show.
(https://ev1mcg.by.files.1drv.com/y4mqnUBs0V8MNAdcgAcN10jL6DkjMSqrbIVKxZ9EX4OwkjgDSD5rBIDd2oxjeT7mQvkqxGAIFrDHdpCSSnQrFBswy1K9VjULNP9MLhCiHT2xKLrTNJsFLfQ1sacfFMnz9-7CNmANR4wcraEyaLc-O1UdyJEinjWUwRDNfcZKLMvbOu3Z3tVv6iAmdEbLEKf7ASn?width=3201&height=900&cropmode=none)

If everyone agrees, I can make the model looks like the show. I can also modified the jump point to look more like the show too, with a wider angle like we see in the image.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: wesp5 on May 21, 2020, 03:54:40 pm
If everyone agrees, I can make the model looks like the show.

I don't think these are crtitical, but do it if you like. Also I think the Narn jumpgates had only three pylons, maybe they build cheaper versions? BTW, I believe the Vorlons build the first jumpgates and teached the younger races how to make ones themselves, to bring order into the galaxy. Because every First Ones race showed their own way to enter hyperspace and only the Vorlons use exactly the same way as in the jumpgates! This is no coincidence and these details made Babylon 5 so cool :).

Quote
I can also modified the jump point to look more like the show too, with a wider angle like we see in the image.

If you are working on this, can you make it that the light flash is more similar to the show? Like it flashes once, when the point opens, then turns dark and then flashes again for each ship coming through? And maybe make it so it seems as if the ships appears far away in one go, not cutting through the point graphics? Probably not, but asking is cheap ;)...
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 21, 2020, 04:09:58 pm
I think the special arrival effect could partially be scripted in LUA but that would probably require external help.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on May 21, 2020, 05:54:17 pm
Here are the main differences.
Ingame model / Render model from the show.

If everyone agrees, I can make the model looks like the show. I can also modified the jump point to look more like the show too, with a wider angle like we see in the image.

I think the whole "show acurate" vs "game acurate" would be a reason why there is an entry for the individual pylons as well as the complete jumgate set as a single object (speculation, was before my time). If there is still room in ships.tbl adding another variation on the model wouldn't be too hard.

ps. there is also the reason to use the individual pylons as something else, but thats another matter
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 21, 2020, 08:13:13 pm
could be nice to update the main model without breakinging anything. Like the starfury and EA freighter were updated with high poly models.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Su-tehp on May 21, 2020, 10:13:13 pm
For my part, I wouldn't mind at all if the jump gates in-game had an appearance closer to that of the TV show. If that can be accomplished without breaking anything, I'm all for it.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: den5 on May 21, 2020, 11:45:11 pm
maybe it help
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: karajorma on May 22, 2020, 12:42:59 am
The problem is that we'd need an SCP coder to tinker with the code to also make the warp effect correct. I don't know how hard that would be, it might be 30 seconds in the code or it might be impossible. I tend to avoid graphics coding so I don't know how that part of the code works at all.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: emi_100 on May 22, 2020, 03:30:16 pm
...This is no coincidence and these details made Babylon 5 so cool :).
Agree!

If you are working on this, can you make it that the light flash is more similar to the show? Like it flashes once, when the point opens, then turns dark and then flashes again for each ship coming through? And maybe make it so it seems as if the ships appears far away in one go, not cutting through the point graphics? Probably not, but asking is cheap ;)...
The problem is that we'd need an SCP coder to tinker with the code to also make the warp effect correct. I don't know how hard that would be, it might be 30 seconds in the code or it might be impossible. I tend to avoid graphics coding so I don't know how that part of the code works at all.
I'm not a coder, so I can't help with that, sorry.

For my part, I wouldn't mind at all if the jump gates in-game had an appearance closer to that of the TV show. If that can be accomplished without breaking anything, I'm all for it.
Wow! this is really helpful, I can figure out the right angle with that image.
Can I ask where did you get that? One is from the Security Manual, and the other? from B5 Scrolls maybe? Thank you :)
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Su-tehp on May 22, 2020, 09:31:14 pm
den5 posted those images, not me, but yeah, I'm curious to know where they came from also. I suspect the second image likely came from one of the B5 RPG books judging by its layout. (Damn, the jumpgate struts are almost two klicks long? But then again, we only ever see them end-on in the show.)
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: den5 on May 23, 2020, 01:44:44 am
Wow! this is really helpful, I can figure out the right angle with that image.
Can I ask where did you get that? One is from the Security Manual, and the other? from B5 Scrolls maybe? Thank you :)
I'm afraid I can't help. Can't recall where I got them. These images have stored on my hard drive about five years. Maybe the second image from here https://www.facebook.com/B5Scrolls, although I can't find it there anymore.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: Nightmare on May 23, 2020, 08:11:41 pm
Just put them into reverse image search.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: David cgc on May 24, 2020, 01:24:05 pm
The screencap of the Jumpgate model is from the "History of Lightwave" section of the on-line manual. https://docs.lightwave3d.com/lw2020/appendices/lightwave-3d-resources/lightwave-history

There are other screencaps of Babylon 5 models on that page, but I believe the Jumpgate is the only screen-used one, I think the others are fan models.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: praseodym on May 30, 2020, 03:32:59 am
Hi folks,

I installed Babylon Project via Knossos 0.14.1 on Ubuntu 20.04 64bit. Compared with wxlauncher in the past I am running into these problems

https://fsnebula.org/log/5ed219cbcb0d3321b0c98668

Ideas?
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: wesp5 on May 30, 2020, 03:38:51 am
I don't know much about the table format, but the double ." at end looks bad. Try to change the line to look like this:

1402, "Sie haben IPX-Protokoll als Protokoll ausgewählt, aber dieses Protokoll ist auf Ihrer Maschine nicht installiert."
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on May 30, 2020, 10:43:04 am
Hi folks,

I installed Babylon Project via Knossos 0.14.1 on Ubuntu 20.04 64bit. Compared with wxlauncher in the past I am running into these problems

https://fsnebula.org/log/5ed219cbcb0d3321b0c98668

Ideas?

Looks like a broken string in the localisation files (line 4226 is in the section for German of the strings.tbl and the log tells me that's what you have FSO set to).

Can you go to your the Audio Settings in Knossos and set it to English and try again?

I will, in the meantime, run down the problem on the dev side of things and check if something similar is elsewhere.
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: praseodym on May 30, 2020, 10:55:02 am
Changing the language to English leads to this

https://fsnebula.org/log/5ed281becb0d3321b0c98669
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: 0rph3u5 on May 30, 2020, 11:01:40 am
Changing the language to English leads to this

https://fsnebula.org/log/5ed281becb0d3321b0c98669

That's an issue with the FSO build you are using - let me check with someone on the Linux-Knossos-side of things

EDIT - Explainer:
The line in gamesettings.tbl it's complaining about is a feature of FSO 19.0+ builds (which would be the same as 3.8.1+); you are running the 3.8.0 build

EDIT2: FSO 19.0 is released for Linux (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=96226.0)
Title: Re: TBP 3.7.3 Released
Post by: praseodym on May 31, 2020, 02:31:00 pm
It seems to much more...easy...

I had an unrecognized command line parameter "-sxaa" (or something). After removing it from the default line it works now.

Thanks