Author Topic: BP: War in Heaven discussion  (Read 508306 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rhymes

  • Galactic Mediator
  • 29
  • Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The training mission definitely does run you through the escape systems, and I also recall it teaching the player to hack Mjolnirs specifically.

Also, Idk what other weapons you might be thinking of as "networked weapons," seeing as Mjolnirs have operated as part of a remote network since FS2.

Last thing:
cucking

That word is not just "****ing" spelled wrong. It has a specific meaning that doesn't apply at all in this context. Using it here significantly reduces the coherence and quality of your argument.
If you don't have Knossos, you need it.

“There was a button," Holden said. "I pushed it."
"Jesus Christ. That really is how you go through life, isn't it?”

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Lest Quake feel too piled-on I do think it is a frustrating mission to run through over and over before you've cracked it.

 

Offline Iain Baker

  • 28
  • 'Sup?
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • NOMAD's Reviews
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
One issue I found with WiH, and act three especially, is that it introduces so many new mechanics that it gets a little overwhelming. Having to use lots of keystrokes via the in-game menus can be awkward mid-mission, especially if you are being shot at. It is probably unavoidable since the FS engine / interface was never really designed with that level of complexity in mind. It wasn't designed for fleet command, controlling capital ships or RTS.

If I were to give any constructive criticism going forward it would be to rein in the temptation to force the engine to do things it isn't really built for and concentrate instead on narrative and core gameplay - i.e. what the FS engine is good at.

I would also suggest not introducing completely new game mechanics every mission, as it can get overwhelming. Ideally a player should have time to become comfortable with a new mechanic before they are exposed to a new one. Each mission in Tenebra filled me with a sense of trepidation, "Oh great, I just got my head around the new mechanics introduced in the last mission, now I'm going to have to learn a whole new set for this one, only for those to be useless in the following mission, rinse and repeat." Frankly it felt like work, not something to be enjoyed.

Perhaps have missions that try to do things very differently as standalone missions - as you guys did with 'The blade itself'. That way everyone is happy - those that want to try something experimental can do so, and those that are not interested in that are not forced to play it.

From a narrative perspective tenebra was great - Clarkesworld wouldn't have published two stories based on it if its wasn't -, and the soundscape, use of music and visuals were all spot on, and it was very impressive as a tech demo of what the FS engine can be forced to do, but it just wasn't any fun to play.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 06:02:59 pm by Iain Baker »
Wanna check out my video games, technology and media website? If so, visit; https://www.nomadsreviews.co.uk/

Interested in hiring my freelance writing, proof-reading, editing, SEO, TTSO, Web Development or Social Media Management services? If so, please visit; https://iainbakerfreelance.co.uk or https://www.fiverr.com/ibfreelance

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The big theme in acts 4+5 is having a core set of mechanics that you learn across missions, rather than per-mission gimmicks like in SC2 or Call of Duty.

 

Offline Iain Baker

  • 28
  • 'Sup?
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • NOMAD's Reviews
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The big theme in acts 4+5 is having a core set of mechanics that you learn across missions, rather than per-mission gimmicks like in SC2 or Call of Duty.

That's more like it  :)

What is SC2 BTW?
Wanna check out my video games, technology and media website? If so, visit; https://www.nomadsreviews.co.uk/

Interested in hiring my freelance writing, proof-reading, editing, SEO, TTSO, Web Development or Social Media Management services? If so, please visit; https://iainbakerfreelance.co.uk or https://www.fiverr.com/ibfreelance

 

Offline QuakeIV

  • 28
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I was (admittedly awkwardly) trying to reduce what I perceived as growing irritation, by trying to use relatively easy going language many people (including me) tend to use in gaming circles.  Lest someone start shouting about dictionary definitions, I would point out that Homer's idiomatic use of the word 'dough' was incorporated into a dictionary because dictionaries are meant to track to the actual in-use form of the language, not the vice versa.  I can see that I came across as crass and I apologise, but you could at at least avoid pretending you have no idea what I meant.  Its definition number 2 on urban dictionary at the moment and is decently reflective of how people will use it in that context: https://i.imgur.com/fqd6GSU.png

It doesn't particularly mean anything, its just a reflection of how you feel when you get a 'game over, you absolute moron [insert three paragraphs about how the entire UEF defensive strategy collapsed because of your failure]' that felt unjustified.

Anyways, I don't see how the BP team would be obligated to go way out of their way to make sure people know how to play the mission.  I'm saying that it feels like information was deliberately omitted for sake of some abstract goal that isn't really compatible with how the story had been told up to this point.  The most straightforward mechanism to defuse that would be to say 'nope, wasn't intended', which seemingly has been implied, albeit in a perverse fashion.  I don't get what all the confusion is about.  Its not like this would be the first time in human history that one monkey made a design decision that seemed inconsistent and annoying to another monkey.  Explain why suspecting that this might have happened is in any way unjustifiable?  Did my language imply that I was in any way certain of that?

Also, Idk what other weapons you might be thinking of as "networked weapons," seeing as Mjolnirs have operated as part of a remote network since FS2.
The station isn't a fundamentally atomic thing, everything in it is operating in a network, and indeed blue planet has actually made some effort at depicting the existence of such things in the past.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 06:24:36 pm by QuakeIV »

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
There’s no weird conspiracy, I just assumed “the enemy” was implicit in “networked weapons.” The intended path of discovery for that info is from discovering you can scan Artemis subsystems for useful stuff.

People don’t like cuck because it’s associated with the alt right and Gamergate. It’s sort of a shibboleth.

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion

In the assassination mission how far away do you need to be for the fighters to lose lock on you? I have had both auroras and normal fighters still knowing exactly where I am from over 4KM away. I have tried turning tail and flying away. I have tried flying away on full afterburner with all my energy diverted to the engines. I have tried gliding at 90 degrees from my last direction, I have tried powering down and they still find me. I have tried doing all of the above in combination and they still know exactly where I am. I have flown well over 10KM from everything and those bloody things still know where I am. If I power down I just get killed since they still know where I am but now I cant change direction or do anything. Is it supposed to be like this or is my game screwing around?


Alright I think there is something wrong there. It's been about 2 years since I've played this mission but I distinctly remember one of the methods for success I employed was going dark after the assassination, then warping out.
Also, as quake stated earlier, the mjolnir hack is definitely the most satisfying way to beat this one though.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The big theme in acts 4+5 is having a core set of mechanics that you learn across missions, rather than per-mission gimmicks like in SC2 or Call of Duty.

That's more like it  :)

What is SC2 BTW?


Zergs.......The return.
Your friendly Orestes tactical controller
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

  
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I want to support TechnoD11 on that, there is something wrong. I'm pretty sure there is some kind of a bug with the stealth in this mission, based on what Baker has reported. I wonder if it can be related to the FSO build used by him? I'd suggest looking at it with a fresh new nightly build.

I myself have got rather fond memories of the mission in question, and I have played it long before dreamscape training sessions were a thing. From my point of view, it goes like that: there's no "deliberate information omittence". There's simply no information. The way you should approach the mission is a bit different than usual. You get a target to find and eliminate and a bunch of resources you can procure via viral weapons (scanning). It's all about poking your nnose anywhere you can and using that to your advantage.

You have to scan Artemis comms anyway to be able to find the transport, but if I recall it properly you could also scan sensors and weapons, doing that resulting in procuring some additional possibilities. Sensors give you the ability to create a powerful EMP blast and weapons allow you to breach into the Mjolnir network. Laporte makes remarks about that herself! An additional HUD gauge reporting Mjolnir status also shows up.

At least that's my memory of the mission from when I did replay it a dozen times just to try and find all I could use to complete the task. But I don't think that Director's Cut changed the mission enough for my points here to be invalid.

The point is - BP is cool and all, but as soon as people have to get a bit creative, act intelligently and care to notice the more or less subtle hints during the mission and consider them to complete their objective, the whining starts. It looks for me not like "inconsistent, annoying design" and "not Freespace anymore" but like the player once in a while isn't being led by the hand by the mission designer.

This discussion also makes me want to replay Tenebra again just to be more informed about what I'm talking about :P.
Mito [PL] - Today at 8:52 PM
I was supposed to make a short presentation about basics of optical fibers and here I am, listening to Eurobeat while reading about quantum cryptography.

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
One question to WiH: Is Act 3 (Tenebra) part of the actual package that can be downloaded with Knossos? I know that Tenebra is released but on Knossos only Act 1 and 2 are listed.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
One question to WiH: Is Act 3 (Tenebra) part of the actual package that can be downloaded with Knossos? I know that Tenebra is released but on Knossos only Act 1 and 2 are listed.

It should be, yeah.

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Acts 1 and 2 are packed in "War in Heaven 1", while "War in Heaven 2" is just Tenebra.
Mito [PL] - Today at 8:52 PM
I was supposed to make a short presentation about basics of optical fibers and here I am, listening to Eurobeat while reading about quantum cryptography.

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Ah now I get it. Thx

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Freespace 2: Blue Planet 2: War in Heaven 2: Act 3: Tenebra