Originally posted by karajorma
I don`t think so. Everyone knows that Sharon going to Temple Mount would cause problems. Even the CNN report seems to agree with that. If it wouldn`t have made Sharon look like a hardliner I doubt he would have done it.
You may not think so, but an excuse it was. Besides, where is it written that only Moslems can access the Temple Mount without fear of causing an uproar?
And I'm a bit blurry on the definition of this term "hardliner". Can we get a definition here?
Originally posted by karajorma
Now that is interesting. I`ll have to read that in more detail later.
That kind of stuff is what I mean when talking about media slant and mis-portrayal. The incident itself made headline news the world over - and rightly so. But once the investigation came to a close and reached the conclusion it reached, how many of those news networks carried
that report?
Originally posted by karajorma
Nope that wasn`t the problem. As you say security related issues can`t be released. Heres the quote
[q]The attitude of Israel (92nd) towards press freedom is ambivalent. Despite strong pressure on state-owned TV and radio, the government respects the local media's freedom of expression. However, in the West Bank and Gaza, Reporters Without Borders has recorded a large number of violations of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights which guarantees press freedom and which Israel has signed. Since the start of the Israeli army's incursions into Palestinian towns and cities in March 2002, very many journalists have been roughed up, threatened, arrested, banned from moving around, targeted by gunfire, wounded or injured, had their press cards withdrawn or been deported.[/q]
Ok, first of all, it isn't security related? Looks like it to me - all the reported problems are in the West Bank and Gaza, which are largely PA-controlled areas. The security situation there is quite different from the rest of Israel, as you can see by that bar chart I posted earlier with the number of terrorist attacks in each area; "The Home Front" is everything aside from Gaza and the West Bank.
Second, I really would like to find out more about these allegations of man-handling journalists. I know that I've had to personally restrict a journalist's entry into an area due to a security situation currently taking place, such as cars being shot at on a highway, etc.
But I do admit that there is no lack of soldiers who prefer to physically force/prevent journalists and/or Palestinians from going into currently off-limits areas after a simple verbal warning doesn't work. The IDF - both officially and unofficially - does not allow such behavior, and clamps down hard with disciplinary action on those who take to such means.
That, unfortunately, covers the "roughed up, threatened...{and} banned from moving around" aspects of those allegations. The rest, all of which is considerably more serious (arrested... targeted by gunfire, wounded or injured, had their press cards withdrawn or been deported), sounds more like the PA offhand. But again, I'd like to read about specific examples before going into this further.
Originally posted by karajorma
Nope. Not even then. Flatten all the buildings you want you`ll never have peace, you`ll just make people hate you more.
If you feel the need to flatten buildings go ahead but that can`t be all you do. At the moment that is the sole responce of the Israeli government and it's plain to see that it doesn`t work. Instead look at Northern Ireland where two sides who hate each other have been made to sit down and talk. That's what you need to do and when Israel was doing that it did make things better. Flattening buildings alone has no effect.
I never said that was the only action being taken in our war on terror. We also use targeted assasinations (which probably has the highest number/ratio/whatever of deaths from collateral damage
) arrests, and widespread security checkpoints (which employ *gasp* racial profiling!! *gasp*).
But simply eliminating terror will not bring peace. Like Mr. Vega said, the hatred needs to be dealt with. As long as the Arafat-led Palestinian Authority inculdes hate-filled material in it's educational system, there will be no peace. Encouragement to become a "martyr" (suicide bomber), teaching hatred of Jews and Christians, etc - it's all being pumped into their children's minds. Heck, the most widely sold book in the PA is
Mein Kampf (sp?).
And no one can say that Israel wasn't willing to sit down, talk, compromise, etc. We did that, under Mr. Barak. While at the time I despised him for it, he offered Arafat 98% (I think - it was in the high 90's somewhere) of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. It doesn't get better than that. But Arafat, in a move criticized even by most Islamic nations, refused, thereby proving to anyone willing to see that it wasn't about the land. It is about pushing the Jews into the sea, plain and simple. Always has been, and always will be. And if you need proof of that, I can dig up some - just say so.
Originally posted by karajorma
Arafat on the other hand isn`t percieved that way by the public. If you depose him and set up a government by election you`ll simply get someone even more hardline than he is. If you simply install someone you like You'll soon find that the Palestinians don`t respect them and view them as your puppets. Most likely anyone you put in place would be assassinated before the end of the year.
ACtually, we hear from those Palestinians who have the freedom to speak out (those who have, for example, married Israeli Arabs and are now Israeli citizens, no longer under Arafat's rule) that they had things
much better before Oslo and the PA, under Israeli rule.
Originally posted by karajorma
The problem is that Israel view this as a problem that can be solved by force and it isn`t. Yes you need to use force to keep the terrorists at bay but you can`t solve this problem through military channels alone. While you continue to think you can you`ll never have peace.
You're right that it can't be completely solved be force, but you're wrong that Israelis think so. Yeah, we
could "wipe them out... all of them...", but what kind of a sick, Hitler-esque solution is that?
At the moment, Israel's official stance is that Arafat is no longer a valid partner for peace talks. He's been given plenty of opportunity, but keeps on encouraging terrorist attacks "behind the scenes", in arabic-language broadcasts that aren't translated or monitored by the mainstream media. So now Israel is looking for the Palestinians to elect someone else - and then we'll see.
