[.::Tin Can::.]

Originally posted by karajorma


Cause maybe the decapitation was done by the terrorists but the video was done by the Americans?

Hardly.

Normally to check the bodies if they match up with the people they are looking for, more often then not they are going to check certain things, like his dental records for starters, just like Hitler. When they send your sons headly body back to you to put in a coffin and put in the ground... you will think it is pretty real. That is why when they report about finding these bodies they say "It has been confirmed it IS so-and-so..."

While I dont think that he should be put in jail for anything, the type of video he is making is sick. Decapitating heads is a sick thing.

Rampage, I agree. This guy is a moron.

[Rictor]

Thats not what he;s saying Tin Can.

What he is disputing is the identity of the killers. In most such videos, the killers are wearing masks. Now, for all you know, it could be Bozo the Clown under there. Especially in the NIck Berg video, there were many inconsistancies, which generally make it seem as if the killing was not done by terrorists.

If this guy, with absolutely no expertise and a few bucks worth of fake blood, could make a video convincng enough to pass of as real, imagine what others could do.Not so much to do with the killing, but as to making it appear as if though he was killed by terrorists. In the video, there was no one except him, and yet, due to the style of the video, all of you assumed, myself included and very likely whatever CIA schmuck analyzed the video, that the killing was done by Iraqi insurgents.

[Bobboau]

if we killed him why would we need to make up some elaborate decapitation stunt, we have frendly fire all the time, just ask the Canadians.

[Rictor]

because a FF story could at best be seen as tragic mistake by the US, and at worst could provoke a public outcry against the occupation forces.

But when you have scary looking Arabic men chop someone's head off, well, you've seen the results yourself. A huge cry of outrage by the Western media and in turn greater support for the occupation. As in "look at these barbarians, we have to hunt them down and exterminate the lot of them. I didn't support the occupation before, but now, well, we can't have these sorts of people roaming the streets."

Now, I'm not saying for sure that it was the US that killed Berg, but I am saying that it wasn't who the US claimed it was, for a number of reasons, and that the US forces in Iraq are high on the list of suspects. Could just as easily been the Israelis, or the Kurds etc etc.

[Bobboau]

or Al Queda...

[Rictor]

erm, check one of the previous threads for the complete list of thing that are wrong with the video, I can't remember all of them right now. There are a number of little things in the video that disqualify the Al-Queda story, not the least of which is that the man who presents himself as Zarquawi is not him, on account of having the wrong accent and quite possibly being dead at the time of the filming.

besides, that vdieo gives support too the US, what does Al Queda stand to profit from it? It undermines their cause more than it supports it.

[SadisticSid]

If this guy goes to jail for this it'll be a real tragedy. The only thing he should be done for is wasting police time.

[.::Tin Can::.]

Didn't someone come up with the theory that is was Russians who did it? I'm not sure, but someone linked me to a page with all those little details in it. For some reason though, I would doubt that the US would kill one of its own people in order to make people like them more. Im sure some people think we are that ruthless but we arent.

Of course, when it comes to the US, EVERYTHING is a conspiracy...

[Rictor]

wait, wait...we? Who is we? Can you speak for 300 million people? More to the point, can you speak for the military and spy agencies? I would think that its fairly clear that in order to safeguard America's rule, you can't very well be a nice-guy about it. It requires brutal work, and I wouldn't be so quick to class those people as "we". The best soldier/spook is a psychopath, they're efficient.

Now, are you telling me that out of several hundred thousand memebers of the military and intel services, not to mention foreign assests, you couldn't find half a dozen that would be willing to murder an innocent man to further America's interests? Sure you would, and that stands true for any country that serious about being a player on the world stage; Russia, China, Israel, Britain, Egypt etc.

Its not a conspiracy theory, because there's evidence. Furthermore, the story is not nearly so clean-cut as you think, there are strange little details cropping up all over the place. But just ask yourself, who stands to profit from this? This happened in the midst of the Abu Ghraib scandal, and it certainly diverted attention, at least for a little while. There was a huge outcry in the US, as in most Western nations. This lead to increased support, or atleast tolerance for the occupation and the US's "war on terrorism". But, as I said, read the previous thread on the subject for a summary of the inconsistancies.

It could very well have been the Russians, I don't know. But what seems rather certain at this point, is that it was not Zarquawi.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
For some reason though, I would doubt that the US would kill one of its own people in order to make people like them more.

You're VERY VERY wrong.

Operation Northwoods

[.::Tin Can::.]

I mean today Karajorma, not the early 1960's. Things can change quite quickly in 40 years. Can you name at least a few more occassions Karajorma? Something a little more recent? If there was only one instance then I am forced to believe it was only a time-critical reason to do it, and doesnt reflect on the whole country for the rest of the time its still standing.

[aldo_14]

The only thing that changes with time is that they get better at hiding it.......

[.::Tin Can::.]

The people who were still alive when they did it, yes. People outside of this conspiracy were likely unaffected, and if they are too busy trying to cover it up they probably wont do something just like it all over again. The thought seems outrageous, but it is only once incident with one set of people. Its bad, I know....

[Ghostavo]

Originally written in MSNBC
Vanderford, 22, said he began distributing the video on the Internet months ago in hopes of drawing attention to his one-time campaign for city supervisor.

I doubt he will get arrested seeing that he didn't send the tape to any governmental agency, police, etc... He just distributed the tape online for god's sake!!

[.::Tin Can::.]

True, but ask yourself, would it really help him in his run for city supervisor?

[Rictor]

I think its a rather safe assumption that the leader of any nation, particularly Cheney, Wolfowitz et al, are rather devoid of a conscience. Nations, particularly agressive nations, including the US, are run the same way an organized crime outfit is run.

Psychopaths at the top, with grunts carrying out the dirty work - the dumber the better. And as I mentioned, some or even most of the US Army/Special Ops/Intel angencies may be staffed with people who would not be willing to play dirty to advance US objectives, though I doubt it, but you're bound to find a few.

Remember Tin Can, in the military, especially covert or black ops, brutality and lack of morals is an asset.

[aldo_14]

nations can't afford to have a conscience

Not a nice fact, but it's the way the world works at the moment - the most brutal, powerful and aggressive becomes dominant.  (remember, aggression is not just military, it's ecnomoic and ideological)

Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
True, but ask yourself, would it really help him in his run for city supervisor?

Well, you've heard his name now, haven't you?

[vyper]

Nothing changes except the names. The great game is eternal gentlemen, and if you ever hope to stop it, you have to accept that not everyone lives by your own standards.

[.::Tin Can::.]

Originally posted by aldo_14

Well, you've heard his name now, haven't you?

But does that mean I like him?

[Knight Templar]

"My God, you must be the worst pirate I have ever heard of!"

"... but you have heard of me."

And it's quite visible that TinCan lives in some backwater part of the country, fully covered in warm, right-wing blankets, where tities are covered, adjectives range from "fooie" to "didly", the dollar can buy you a gallon of milk, a tank of gasoline and a movie ticket, the government loves you AND your pets and would nevner do anything against your best interest. Do you still wonder how Santa can fit down the chemney every year?