[redmenace]

Sunni Leaders Offering Peace Deal
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6418515/

[Rictor]

hmm, I doubt the US will accept it, Dubya isn't really known as a peaceful man, keen on negotiation.

And even if it is accepted, the resistance in Fallujah is not, as far as I know, under a single leadership, so it is unlikely that all, or any, groups would comply.

Unfortunately, I see another bloodbath in Fallujah on the horizon. 10,000 marines are surrounding the city as we speak, and civies are being asked to leave (though all males under 45 years of age will not be allowed to leave, on account of beings "military age males").

[Bobboau]

if this would have happened four days ago I would have jumped on it, but we can't just get redy to nock something down and back off at the last second becase the people we're aiming at claim to be willing to accept peace, eternaly

[Rictor]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=1&u=/ap/20041105/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

I'm not at all sure who will do the knocking Bob.
A read a report by some US military guy that said the US should prepare for the worst casualties since Nam.

[Bobboau]

well it would have to be, we've probly lost less than 3,000 people in all wars sence nam combined.
we have them out numbered 2-3 to 1 we have all the advantages expect maybe we could loose 100 people in this.
I just hope most of the good people got out first.

[Rictor]

In a city that size, you know as well as I do that that is an impossbility. A few thousands armed insurrgents, a few hundred thousand if not million civies.

Oh yeah, it'll be real clean.

[Bobboau]

how long has it been known that we were going to atack this city?
if you knew that sort of force was decending upon your town and you knew you and your famely and frends could get out, wouldn't you get the hell out?

besides it doesn't mean I can't hope.

[Rictor]

Well, you can hope, but seeing as Fallujah is, as far as I know, already the scene of the highest civilian casualties in Iraq, without the added bonus of a major military assult, its not much of a hope.

Though I can take some comfort in knowing that at least the US is letting non-combatants leave the city...well, except males between 15 and 60. Must a a ***** to leave your home and all your possesions cause of the need to "pacify" the insurgency.

[Rictor]

the insurgents are inviting the media along
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200411/s1236345.htm

"All media will be allowed into Fallujah to witness the crusade against Islam and see the real face of America. US media will not be excluded," said a statement by the Fallujah Mujahideen Shura (council), composed of insurgent leaders, tribal chiefs and Sunni Muslim clerics.

"We will protect and transport them to the location of the events. There will be a special building for the journalists."

If you ask me, all those journalists so keen to write about "percision strikes on  a Zarqawi safehouse" should be sent into Fallujah and put their money where the mouth is. Somehow, I doubt they would be the happiest of campers when asked to place their lives at the mercy of US airstrikes.

[Bobboau]

and the 3000+ fighters that would be transporting them there

I hope someone (aside from Al Jaseera) takes them up on this offer.

[Rictor]

read
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2004_11_01_riverbendblog_archive.html#109933562515304582

[aldo_14]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3990141.stm
"Iraq declares state of emergency"

It's rumoured there are 100 volunteers to drive suicide bomb-cars.  The nature of US attack seems to be to draw fire, and then call down an airstrike on the hostiles.... obviously you're looking at a high possibility of problems there, because not all civvies would be able to leave... and may even be allowed to by the insurgents.  AFAIK the US wants to avoid 'close range' fighting, because their numerical and technological advantages can be wiped out by an opponent with local knowledge and freedom of movement.

[Rictor]

How selflessly courageous of them.

[Jetmech Jr.]

Well, it makes some good tactical sense, if not exactly good moral sense...

[aldo_14]

I get the impression US tactics are designed to avoid US casualties above and beyond anything else, which isn't really the best way to win a war of 'hearts and minds' (even if it makes military and political sense - at home).  UK tactics are more about engagement & contact (more experience at this sort of thing) with the locals, which unfortunately may leave the Black Watch at camp Dogwood nee Camp Incoming a lot more vulnerable to suicide bombers.

[Clave]

My grandfather was a sniper in the Black Watch, so I have some affinity for them, and I do think they will get hammered if they are not very careful.

As for the new offensive, it may be time to talk, who knows?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Clave
My grandfather was a sniper in the Black Watch, so I have some affinity for them, and I do think they will get hammered if they are not very careful.

As for the new offensive, it may be time to talk, who knows?

Hmm.  My grand-uncle- I think - was also in the Black Watch (one of 4 who died in WW2, IIRC.  Or it may have been 3.)