[Gank]

Originally posted by an0n
I'm totally ignoring all this as you're failing to grasp the simple concept of cause-and-effect in regards to deployment of forces.

And you're ignoring the fact that Germany was unable to invade Britain when Japan hit Pearl Harbour, nor was it ever in a position to after either. The loss of three aircraft carriers in the pacific would not have changed the outcome of the war in any way. None. Whatsoever. The US was launching carriers 4 months after the were laid down shortly after the outbreak of war.

Originally posted by an0n
So you can tell the size of a car's spark plugs by the colour of it's paint, can you?

Do you know what a spy is? Britain was full of fascists in the 30-40s, quite a few of them worked for the Nazis. If you have massive shipments of planes coming in on boats, somebodys going to notice. These planes need to fly around in the sky in order to go place. Anyone can see them in the sky.

Originally posted by an0n
No, because if you do, you've already lost the battle.

If they're out patrolling near the harbour, they're still defending it.

Like if you decided to come to my house and burn it to the ground, but I went to the end of the street and sat in a tree with a sniper rifle and waited for you to come around the corner, I'd still be defending my house from your hostile intentions.

I think the object in starting a war is to go and defeat the other person before he comes to get you.

[an0n]

Which is what the Japanese would have been doing while the Germans were sitting in the tree with the sniper rifle.

I'm ignoring the rest as you're just plain wrong and I don't feel like reciting the events and motivations of WW2 in all their complex subtlety just to win an argument on the internet.

[Unknown Target]

Originally posted by CmdKewin
We all know that history is written by winners.  

Have you ever asked yourself on the real motives that made america react so quickly on the Pearl Harbor attack?

It took three hours after the attack for the message to finally reach the government. After THAT, well, hmm...you just got your main naval base in the Pacific bombed to hell by a military giant. Are you gonna deliberate for days as to what to do?

And why in the world would 2/3 of the Pacific fleet be present at a given time in a single Harbour?

Refuiling/repair. Also, the US saw that Japan was building up, so they had to be safe.

And why would the only 3 ships in the whole U.S navy who could possibily have a chance to defeat the four JIN attack groups (the 3 carriers the U.S had in the Pacific at that time, the Lexington, the Saratoga and the Enterprise) be at large, really FAR away from Hawaii?

They were on training excersizes, this is a well known fact.

p.s.: The Japanese invented the so called "Air-Power Combined Fleet" tactic. Not the U.S.

While this may be true, the strategy being toted by most of the high-ranking Japanese naval officers was the strategy of the battleship. Most of the Japanese were still thinking in the time when the biggest gun won. Why do you think Japan built the largest battleships ever constructed?

p.s.s: Never, never base your opinions on war films from the 50's. They are obviously Pro-American. In every sense.

No ****. I dunno about whoever you were arguing against, but I base all my facts on my actual research of WWII, not movies.

For once, I agree with Liberator: Why must America ALWAYS have an ulterior motive?

[Gank]

Complex subtlety? I hope you're being sarcastic.

[aldo_14]

NB: It's worth noting (RE the Battle of Britain) that British troops were still fighting in North Africa and that British aircraft would presumably be able to bomb targets in Germany / occupied europe if 'left alone'.

[an0n]

I don't mean "1 - Kill Jews....". I mean "Oh, look, this bridge was taken which means we'll need to move these men here to protect this area of land because it has oil that the loss of will mean we lose this area of sea and you smell of fish."

[Gank]

Oh right, because what you were describing earlier sounded like a computer game.

[an0n]

Yeah, I gleaned my entire knowledge of WW2 from the Call of Duty games.



I should probably mention that I tend to spend at least 12 hours a week reading through Wikipedia and Encarta articles on WW2.

[Clave]

We had a few lucky breaks.  They could have kept bombing our radar stations and southern airfields, which would have been a disaster, but changes in strategy on both sides worked in our favour.  Look up 'Douglas Bader' and 'Big Wings' - thier effect on German morale was huge....

[Gank]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sealion
Musta missed this one.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Clave
We had a few lucky breaks.  They could have kept bombing our radar stations and southern airfields, which would have been a disaster, but changes in strategy on both sides worked in our favour.  Look up 'Douglas Bader' and 'Big Wings' - thier effect on German morale was huge....

The Big Wing wasn't actually used by Fighter Command until after the BoB though, wasn't it?

[an0n]

Originally posted by Gank
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sealion
Musta missed this one.

The 'Battle of Britain' page goes into more detail.

[CmdKewin]

Originally posted by an0n
Yeah, I gleaned my entire knowledge of WW2 from the Call of Duty games.



I should probably mention that I tend to spend at least 12 hours a week reading through Wikipedia and Encarta articles on WW2.

I wasn't refering to anyone on this forum in particular. But i know quite a few people who do think that way.

The Japanese obviously underestimated the U.S industrial capacity as well as it's spirit (but really no one in the world had even the slightest idea of what they could do. WW2 was the first real international engagement the U.S was involved with. WW1 U.S involvement was really minimal). If not, they wouldn't have lost. But the U.S underestimated the Japanese training as well: they considered the Jap. pilots to be low on C vitamines (so basically blind) and equiped with inferior technology. They basically proved them wrong. Aside from Midway (which was only a major victory for the U.S because they where lucky enough to recover a Jap deciphering machine... same as for the German Enigma machine... but that's another story.), the U.S had to fight for almost a year and a half on an equal ground (until the Guadalcanal battles IIRC). And for a Nation 1/10 the size and industrial manpower, i'd say that's quite an achievement


p.s.:I'm a fanatic of the Japanese Imperial Navy, so bare with me. They may have built massive Battleships which where no real use, ok, but the U.S did that too. The only difference is that a Yamato Class BB look WAY cooler than any Iowa class you can throw at me

[aldo_14]

Actually, I think the Japanese - maybe not exactly - that the US industrial capacity would lead to them losing any war they fought against them; so Pearl Harbour was an attempt to simply buy a bit of time before their inevitable entry into the war.