Author Topic: 3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?  (Read 2762 times)

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Offline Darkblade

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Seems that 3.6.5 release made the special explosions variables broken.

I tried to make the variables work with the older 3.5.5 version of Fred2_Open and 3.6.5 version of Fred2_Open. 3.6.5 version reverts the special explosion values back to 0 once I save the mission and if saved on 3.5.5 Fred2_Open FS2_Open doesn't seem to recognize my values since the explosions do work the way they should once I playtest my mission. Everything worked properly on 3.6 release.

Values I'm using in Fred2_Open:

Damage: 100000
Blast: 100000
Inner Damage Radius: 1500
Outer Damage Radius: 10000
Create Shockwave: ticked
Shockwave Speed: 600


And as shown using the text editor:

22      "Defiant"      "1500"      "block"
23      "Defiant"      "10000"      "block"
24      "Defiant"      "100000"      "block"
25      "Defiant"      "100000"      "block"
26      "Defiant"      "1"      "block"
27      "Defiant"      "600"      "block"


Do you recommend that I'll make a work around with explosion-effect sexps in FRED2 or is this just a temporary bug in current 3.6.5 build?
Mauri Darkblade Majanoja

 

Offline Fury

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Darkblade also informed me that engine sounds aren't looped properly if it's in ogg format. On top of thar, fighters seems to randomly have shield hit effect instead of hull hit effect when ogg is used. (No shields are used)

I asked him to make bug reports to mantis.

 
3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
I have noticed this too btw but it wasnt high priority to me so I diddnt report it.

 

Offline Goober5000

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Gah. :doubt:

Mantis it and we'll get to it.

 

Offline Black Sheep

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
About the OGG prob...every mp3 puts a slight pause at the start and end of the wave file...maybe OGG does that as well, but I never encountered probs...anyway, convert a loop to OGG and back to wav and see what is there...
"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark"
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Offline Fury

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Looping problem was resolved by re-enconding the files.
However, we still have the issue of wrong hit effect being played.

This was posted in the mantis bug report.
Quote

"Is l_hit.ogg the same as s_hit_2.ogg or is it different?  I think
that they are the same in normal FS2 and TBP 2.0.  s_hit_2 (index 40) is supposed to be when a laser shot hits the players shield.  s_hit_4 (index 39) is supposed to be when a laser shot hits the shield of another ship. l_hit (index 36) is supposed to be a laser hit hitting the hull.  Make sure that those sounds match up with what's intended to be heard."


After I digged more into this, I noticed that both files in question are in 8b11k folder in original FS2 data. But we have the other in 16b11k folder. FS2 ones are also identical, but ours are different.

And on top of that, many files are in both 8b11k and 16b11k folders.

Since I am at work currently, I can't check too much into this right now. But I'd appreciate if you have feedback on this matter.

Since I wasn't the one working on sound effects, I have no idea what kind of files should be in 8b11k and what in 16b11k and does it even matter.

Wav hit effects plays correctly but for some reason ogg gets confused.


Edit: Nobody has yet responded to the special explosion mantis bug report. This is an important feature we need for one of the missions in the campaign that is supposed to be released along with R3.0.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2005, 03:11:38 am by 173 »

 

Offline Black Sheep

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Just check it in with winamp....it tells you which sounds have 22 or 11 Khz.
"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark"
-Hamlet rulez

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Just...don't put files in either folder. Using 11khz now that OGG support is in is silly (Unless 44.1 khz files aren't beng played). If something doesn't work it should just be a matter of a global search-and-replace, I don't think either folder is hardcoded to do anything.

I can reproduce this bug but I'm not sure what causes it - replacing FS2_Btl_A01 with a .ogg caused D01 (IIRC) to be played. Not sure what's going on there.

taylor made some changes to the OGG code, and I think he said that fixed some bugs with it - are you using a build from after his changes were made?
-C

 

Offline Fury

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Nope, it's still the 3.6.5 build.

Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Just...don't put files in either folder.

I haven't ever tried it, but does sound files work if placed to root of sounds folder? Or what did you mean exactly?

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Exactly, just put 'em all in data/sounds. It really doesn't make any difference which folder you put them in. If they should be grouped by anything, it should be contents, not quality.

So let me rephrase my comment: You can put them in any folder, but don't feel constrained at all by the names. If 44.1khz sound isn't supported by FS2, it should be - DS definitely supports it. (In fact, my DirectSound winamp plugin resamples to 96000hz, 24-bit sound. :p)
-C

 

Offline Fury

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
I didn't know that, thanks. :)

I know for certain that we don't have enough time to gather and remake sound effects from high-quality samples to R3.0. So, what are advantages and disadvantages in simply converting the wavs to ogg?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2005, 05:17:40 am by 173 »

 

Offline Fury

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Also, Darkblade confirmed that ogg hitsounds work fine when put to root of sounds folder and not using subfolders.

 

Offline Black Sheep

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Upsampling is useless....the disadvantage of redoing the sounds...I don't have time doing that... :) And the best source I got for TBP was that old ITF Trailer...and the sound there was in 22 Khz, so....unless you find the professional SFX CDs that were used in the production process of Bab5, it will be pretty useless to redo the whole thing....what exactly is it, that you don't like in the sound design?
"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark"
-Hamlet rulez

 

Offline Fury

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
You don't have to do anything with this, we have another guy who hopefully can do it.

And like I have already said in the internal forum, if we can get high-quality samples which can be used to redo current sound effects, it will be done. There's nothing wrong with current set, but if we can get better sound effects, even if the difference may be small, it's worth it I believe.

What I was asking two posts above, is that what are the advantages and disadvantages of simply re-encoding current wavs to ogg. File size is an obvious advantage, slightly higher CPU usage is an obvious disadvantage. But what else there is?

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Well, it depends on a lot of things. For sound effects, OGGs are decoded to PCM and stuffed into a DS buffer, so memory usage is the same no matter what format you use, unless you change teh quality. CPU usage will also be the same ingame no matter what format you use. There may be *some* quality degradation, but OGGs are pretty good at preserving quality.
So, OGG sound effects:
- Slightly longer load time (In-mission or mission loading, depending on whether the player chose to preload sounds or not.)
- No change in memory usage
- No change in CPU
- Smaller filesize
- Quality varies (Depending on bitrate, which affects the filesize)

Music, on the other hand, is decoded on the fly.
OGG Music:
- Slightly better mission load time
- Less memory usage
- Slightly more CPU usage
- Smaller filesize
- Quality varies

OGG is also preferable to ADPCM (Which I know Inferno used) - better quality with a smaller filesize, IMO.

Upsampling can actually help sound quality somewhat, depending on the compression and the original quality. Usually you get less hiss, but any distortion will become much more obvious. (I used a resampling winamp plugin to upsample the m4 music from FS1, and it helped quite a bit). You can also run it through an EQ afterwards, to get the range of the sound back - making the highs/lows stronger, making the sound seem less murky IMHO.

It's not a huge deal, with effects you can probably get away with 22050 hz anyway.
-C

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
I also recall reading that ogg also supports some form of surround sound.  If this is true, I'm guessing that it'd require some source code alterations that the team would not be looking forward to.
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Offline Vertigo1

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3.6.5 - Special Explosions bug?
Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
I also recall reading that ogg also supports some form of surround sound.  If this is true, I'm guessing that it'd require some source code alterations that the team would not be looking forward to.


I will gladly test this should any devs decide to impliment this.  Seeing as I just recently got a 1000W 6.1 home theater system installed and hooked up to my PC via spidif (coaxial audio).  I'm using my motherboard's onboard audio codec (nVidia's Sound Storm codec used on select nforce2 motherboards which can encode to dolby digital on the fly).

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