[redsniper]

I can't search and the wiki is only helpful to a degree. I've been trying all day to get my FSO all up to date so that I can finally play Transcend. I want to be able to use the media VPs, DaBrain's shockwaves, and of course the Transcend files all at once. I've seen multiple mod mentioned in passing but I haven't seen an explanation on how to use it. I'm wondering if this is even possible since Transcend and DaB's shockwaves each use their own ships.tbl. So what's the best way to arrange all these files so that things will work? I'm using an older built, btw (07/28/2005) since the latest CVS build causes sound problems for me, which I've already mantis'd. I hate posting a help thread like this but I just can't figure this out and since search is turned off I can't find the answer too easily. I appreciate your help.

[DaBrain]

My shockwaves will work without the ships.tbl. The speed will be worse, but the mighty coders made the shockwave speed depend on the ship size, so it will work a lot better with a new CVS build.

Anyway using the the ships.tbl will give you the best result, but I think it will be just fine to delete it if you want to play a mod.

[karajorma]

Based on what DaBrain says I don't think you really need multimod to get this to work. Just install Transcend and the media.vps and hope that everything works.

If not you'll need to edit the tables to get things to work.

[jr2]

  
It took me 4ever to find the usage; it's buried in 1 or 2 posts long, long, ago in a galaxy far, far away...
Mod usage:

-mod mod1,mod2,Media_VPs

where <mod1> is the mod you want to play, <mod2> is the mod that it depends on, and <Media_VPs> is where you have put the Media VP files.  Since the MOD tab doesn't accept more than one, you must add the line to the features tab.
Therefore, if you put the Transcend files into \games\freespace2\Transcend and you put your media vp files in \games\freespace2\Media_VPs , you'd want to use this:

-mod Transcend,Media_VPs

now if there was a mod of the mod you're playing (eg, Solar Wars for Inferno), you'd want something like this:

-mod Solar_Wars_Ch1,INFR1,Media_VPs

just remember: the mod you're playing first, then it's the mod that that mod depends on, then it's the Media VPs.  (and then, of course, the FS2's main dir, which is assumed)  If you've got the Media VPs in the FS2 main dir, then skip their entry, as it will be loaded by default  (but I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND that if you haven't moved the Media VPs to a subdir, that you do so by entering the following from the freespace2 dir (normally \games\freespace2 :
{read last part if you don't know how to use DOS prompt}

md Media_VPs
<enter>
move mv_*.vp Media_VPs
<enter>

(type that into a command prompt from the FS2 main dir if you've got the Media VPs in the main dir)

{last part, about DOS usage}
to run command prompt from 9x/ME, Start>Run command <Enter> ; for 2K / XP type cmd instead of command

to switch drives eg k: from c: {if you don't have FS2 installed in c:} type:
k:
<enter>

to switch dirs, type
cd\games\freespace2
<enter>
which would change you from whatever dir you were in to \games\freespace2
or
cd freespace2
which would change you from K:\Games to k:\games\freespace2

misc other commands:
rd
remove directory
copy
<duh>
xcopy
<better copy, use with /? switch to get list of switches, such as /v for verify copied ok>

use quotation marks around long filenames or ones that have spaces in them, eg you could run the following from the root dir of the HD with freespace2 in it:

md "\games\freespace2\i put spaces in this path so that it'd make an error in the launcher when all i really wanted to do was run inferno chapter 1"

xcopy "x:\extracted files from downloaded files\huge inferno vps" "\games\freespace2\i put spaces in this path so that it'd make an error in the launcher when all i really wanted to do was run inferno chapter 1" /v
  sorry about the tedious DOS info and the spaces - - just something that bugs me...

PS could some moderator copy whatever part of this they deem appropriate for all beginners / people who haven't been to the galaxy far, far away and make it a Sticky?  Or at least make their own version and Sticky it so that it's in the main Freepace forum where everyone can see it?  Or, way better, put it in the readme 4 FSOpen?  Thanks

[karajorma]

I don't know why you aren't using a mod.ini file for this instead of multimod. For your example of Transcend you would just follow the wiki on how to install mods. Then you'd open the mod.ini file and change this

[multimod]
secondrylist = ,Media_VPs;

into this

[multimod]
secondrylist = ,Transcend,Media_VPs;

With mod.ini files you set up the multimod data once and then you can forget about it. Simply picking a mod from the launcher will automatically allow FS2 to know where all the other mods it needs are. Using multimod means you have to type that all in manually every time you switch mods.

While we're at it can we stick to one name for the mediaVPs folder in the wiki? Things will get hopelessly confusing if we have different people using different names. To be honest though I'd rather trim your whole wiki entry. I went to great lengths to keep the mod installation method as short and simple as possible and your addition makes it look much more complicated than it actually is.

[WMCoolmon]

Multimod
FS2_Open also has a multimod feature. To use it, add the commandline "-mod <mod1>, <mod2>" in the Launcher's "Custom flags" field (Where <mod1> is the first mod directory name, <mod2> is the second, and so on - you may have an unlimited number of mods).

Note that if there are files with the same name present in more than one mod directory, Freespace 2 will use the first one found, starting with the first mod directory. Because of this, it is not generally recommended to combine more than one mod unless one depends on the other. For example - Solar Wars, Inferno, and the Media_VPs (in that order) would work. However, Derelict and Inferno in any order will not work.

Note that the Media_VPs as of 3.6.8 will work with any mod, however, they should always be last so that they do not override special versions of the effects that a campaign, mod, or TC might have.

[karajorma]

I'm going to use it in part but I'll alter it so that it gives details on how to do the same thing with a mod.ini file instead of using multimod directly from the launcher.

The wiki entry already explains how to set up a mod.ini in the first place so why confuse people by suggesting they use mod.ini files and multimod at the same time

Details on using multimod directly from the launcher are something that should appear in the technical section of the wiki. Newbies shouldn't be exposed to it because using mod.ini files to set up their mods is much more sensible and easier for everyone concerned anyway.

[WMCoolmon]

Or you could start off with that, and then say for mod.ini "This is basically like the multimod feature except with semicolons instead of commas"

You might want to link to the mod.ini pack in the wiki too.

[karajorma]

That's already on the list of things to do I've been compiling a big list all today of stuff I should have done this year but haven't. Now all I've got to do is FRED 4 and a half missions tomorrow and I should be back on track

[jr2]

Karajorma,
just wasn't sure if the line in mod.ini
,Transcend,Media_VPs;
was supposed to have that semicolon at the end, and commas between...why is there a comma at the front?  But regardless, if it works no problem I'll try it (much easier!).  Reason I used the features tab was that it took me a month to find out how to use the mods, as I wasn't aware of the wiki (I believe this was about the time that you guys switched from 3dap.com to hard-light.net, or the server was down, or something).  I stumbled across the instructions by accident, and I've seen several places where people still don't know to use either method for the mods.  I think the reason is that they look for the download links, go to scp.indiegames.us, download the files, and follow the readmes, which don't (to my recollection) mention either way to make the mods work.  The reason that I use Media_VPs is because that was how the instructions said to do it.  (I know it doesn't matter what you name it, but that's how it was done in the post I read that a certain someone wrote:)
        ....  sorry, shouldn't be so mean   

from karajorma in Hard Light Productions Forums  »  FreeSpace  »  The Source Code Project (Moderators: Inquisitor, karajorma, Goober5000)  »  Topic: mod directory name cant contain space

Either type -mod mod1,mod2,media_VPs into the launcher manually (Where mod1 is the mod you want to play, mod2 is the name of any supporting mods it needs and media_VPs is the name of the folder where you put the VPs) or use mod ini files to do the same sort of thing automatically.

To be honest though I'd rather trim your whole wiki entry. I went to great lengths to keep the mod installation method as short and simple as possible and your addition makes it look much more complicated than it actually is.

Go ahead...that's why I put it there, so someone would change it into a noobie understandable document (I know I'm probably awful at that...or at least, not the best)

Please note that all contributions to Freespace Wiki may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then don't submit it here.

It really should be in the readme somewhere though.  Maybe someone already put that there.  Also, under Genereal Modding >> Mission design >> FRED Tips, I put the same info... sorry.
BTW, does mod.ini make it so FRED only needs one MOD switch?  (ie, when making missions for the Port type
-mod FSPort instead of -mod FSPort, MediaVPs ?)

Details on using multimod directly from the launcher are something that should appear in the technical section of the wiki.

And where's that?  Ahh, never mind, I just found it, but it really should be put in -mod mod1,mod2, MediaVPs format and explained that way...I think it's confusing, and should be explained in more detail.

-mod

Specifies a higher priority game directory.

Takes one argument string, the name of the directory in which the target mod is contained. Explicit use of this command line should be unnecessary as the launcher has MOD options, though multiple mods are supported and do require manual entry.

Data precidence with -mod is as follows (mod directory "moddir")

   1. moddir/data/(appropriate directory)/
   2. moddir/data/
   3. moddir/
   4. Freespace2/data/(appropriate directory)
   5. Freespace2/data/
   6. Freespace2/

That's already on the list of things to do  I've been compiling a big list all today of stuff I should have done this year but haven't. Now all I've got to do is FRED 4 and a half missions tomorrow and I should be back on track 

Oww... my head... did he say 4 and a half!?!  That's cool...real cool.      

WMCoolmon:
Where'd you find that Multimod section you mentioned?  It's probably new if it mentions VP 3.6.8

[karajorma]

Using Media_VPs instead of mediaVPs is something from old posts of mine. But then I realised that sooner or later someone wouldn't look too closely and would write media-VPs and then bug me about why the launcher was now crashing complaining about not finding the -VPs command line so I switched over Seeing as only a few people have listened to me about using mod.ini files I figured it wasn't a biggie to switch.

I've been meaning to comb through the wiki and sort out the details on how to install mods properly once and for all cause there tends to be a lot of conflicting advice. Most people suggest putting the VPs in the main FS2 folder. I'm strongly against this because I don't think the ease of doing this is really worth it compared to the hassle it causes when people find that FS2 Retail doesn't work, that they can't play multiplayer and a whole host of other problems. Adding a mod.ini to the download for mods would require minimal space, would make sure that people install mods more uniformly (which helps with troubleshooting) and would be really useful for people to get used to now so that we can add a download function to the launcher and let people pick and choose mods straight out of the launcher replacement/mod download manager Taylor is slowly working towards.
 The current wiki entry only explains a small amount of what mod.ini files can do because I trimmed it down to the bare minimum so as to not confuse the newbies who would be using it.

The reason why I say that multimod details should be in the technical section is because I can't see much use for it now that we have mod.ini files. The only people who should be using multimod should be the campaign makers. And only then if they want to try out their campaign without media VPs or something as a test. The end user shouldn't have to be fiddling about with it at all. They should download the mod with a mod.ini setting everything up for them and a nice pretty picture in the launcher for each mod. The end user should have to do no more than extract a folder to their FS2 folder and then pick the mod from a list to make it work.

BTW I was being sarcastic about getting back on track.

[taylor]

@karajorma:  I guess I should really make it known (I think I've forgotten before) that all mod directories need to be considered lower case and referenced as such.  Remember that FSO runs on more than Windows, and on a non-Windows OS will probably be run on a case-sensitive filesystem.  Mods and the mod.ini files will work on all platforms soon but that will be problem unless the mod.ini files only reference lowercase mods (code will do this automatically however), the mod directories are distributed as lowercase, and the instructions on using such things also reference mods with lowercase directory names.

[WMCoolmon]

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Installing_fs2_open would need to be updated, specifically the last section about preserving Freespace 2. Also a little blurb about how if you want to get multi working, you'll have to do that plus make another moddir for the downgraded tables.

[karajorma]

@karajorma:  I guess I should really make it known (I think I've forgotten before) that all mod directories need to be considered lower case and referenced as such.  Remember that FSO runs on more than Windows, and on a non-Windows OS will probably be run on a case-sensitive filesystem.  Mods and the mod.ini files will work on all platforms soon but that will be problem unless the mod.ini files only reference lowercase mods (code will do this automatically however), the mod directories are distributed as lowercase, and the instructions on using such things also reference mods with lowercase directory names.

Ah. I was being really careful to make sure I used the same set of capitals in all my mod.ini files for that reason but I didn't realise that all folders were converted to lower case by FS2.

I'll update everything accordingly

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Installing_fs2_open would need to be updated, specifically the last section about preserving Freespace 2. Also a little blurb about how if you want to get multi working, you'll have to do that plus make another moddir for the downgraded tables.

Does anyone object if I change the instructions and make preserving FS2 Retail the default and consign having mediaVP files in the main folder to the dustbin of history? It seems to be the way we'll be going in the future anyway so it strikes me as best to make it official policy to have the media VP files in a certain folder right now so that people get used to it.

[Goober5000]

Does anyone object if I change the instructions and make preserving FS2 Retail the default and consign having mediaVP files in the main folder to the dustbin of history? It seems to be the way we'll be going in the future anyway so it strikes me as best to make it official policy to have the media VP files in a certain folder right now so that people get used to it.

That sounds like the best strategy.