Author Topic: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut into it pretty deeply)  (Read 1590 times)

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Offline BlackDove

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Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut into it pretty deeply)
Note: The opinions below are just that, opinions. The opinions aren't meant to start a whole Israel and Arab/Palestinian discussion or who did what where. The opinions also aren't intended to insult either Israeli's or Palestinians/Arabs. I hate you all equally just as much as I hate myself, so let's try to be adults and just talk about the movie and its features, mkay? Thank you. [/i]



Okay so I saw it thinking that I was going to see yet another Jewish Spielberg movie promoting Judaism and trying to justify Isreal's place in the world and all that **** that gets re-hashed over and over and over again. I wouldn't mind it, seeing how The Man does know how to make a good film once in a while, and I was willing to let go of the whole weird merger with the scientologist couch-hopper to create that abysmal War of the Worlds travesty. I mean as much as I disliked the Schindler's List for being a Jewish pity party with a full string quartet in the background, the movie WAS a masterpiece regardless of the message, and it was all done properly making it a film to be worth seeing as far as I was concerned.

Okay so Munich.

I've been looking at other reviews before seeing it, all of them were full of praise, and how the Palestinian vs Jewish conflict isn't at all the focal point, that you should go in to see the movie by placing all of your judgements and beliefs at the door before seeing it, and how awesome it is. Okay. Sounds good enough, but I still expected it to glorify Jews, I mean, I didn't think Spielberg could help it.

I was wrong. Now that I've seen it, two words can describe this movie.

****ing boring.

At the one and a half hour mark I was begging Spielberg to tell me how Jews are awesome. Like literally. I wanted to accept the Jews as my god overlords just so he would have mercy on me and roll the ending credits.

But no such luck for me. I don't mean to insult the dead or disrespect them, but really, tons of people die every day, so I guess I just don't put that much weight onto it, especially when it's used as a story stepping stone for a boring movie.

This is the way I saw the movie:

The movie deals with a five man team that works or has worked (however the hell you want to look at it) for the Mossad aka Israel, and they're tasked with killing the eleven Palestinian Black September members who supposedly planned the Munich 1972 Olympic killings. The movie shows the team and how they go about their kills, especially the main Eric Bana character who is the team leader.

The whole thing devolves into a message about how the Israeli's and Palestinians are both to blame for their actions that usually or always result in murder, and how both sides are the same, be they with terroristic or counter-terroristic intentions, which is sort of the main point of the movie I guess, and doesn't quite reflect reality on any stretch of the imagination. I would have preferred the fantasy setting of glorifying Israel and the Jews, and denouncing the Palestinians because that would've been far more fun.

But noooooooooooooo. Two hours and thirty minutes of "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he
himself does not become a monster" or the simpler version "If you lie in bed with children you wake up pissed all over". I needed to spend 2.5 hours just to see those two sentences in action.

It all ends with the poor team leader suffering mentally from his actions, the images of the 1972 Olympic Games massacre intertwining with the scenes in which he ejaculates his semen into his wife, therefore mathematically (I am master mathematician) equating the 1972 killings with an orgasm. Okay so maybe that wasn't the point of the scene, but it very well might be (don't look at me, I didn't film it or edit it) because I was so bored, that's the only amusing outcome.

Positive points? The movie is very good if we're to consider the transition (this is where Direction really shines, I'll give it that) to the seventies. Everything that was done to achieve the movie looking as if it was taking place in the seventies - awesome. I noticed it every step of the way, yes, that looked like the seventies even though I wasn't born in that time.

The actors are also all very good. Geoffrey Rush and Bana were very good casts for their roles and they are very good no doubt about that. The only thing that kept me awake was them really.

So conclusion?

If you read this before seeing it, I suggest not wasting your time or money. Wait for something better from Spielberg.

The thing that gets me though is that Israel and Jewish critics denounce the film as complete fiction and sensless bull****, which sort of I guess means that Spielberg actually went against his "family" in order to make a sacrifice? for telling a movie in a manner not-so-idealising-his-own-blood. Okay, I respect that. But Man, really, at least make that sacrifice with an interesting movie. This boring horse**** just wasn't worth the effort.

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut int
Maybe Speilberg is in a position now where he can afford to make a 2-hour+ boring movie that states his opinion?

I suppose it depends, I like good action movies, I hate melodramas, and if I wan't to see 'real life' I can look out the window amd get far more accuracy than Hollywood can, so this movie never appealed to me in any way, so trying to give a critical point of view would be pointless.

I suppose I can applaud Speilbergs motives, he does glamourise the whole thing, give it that Hollywood mellodrama that reviewers love because it makes them feel self important to watch something 'deep and hidden in the fabric of the film' so they don't consider for one moment that the message is shallow and very obvious. Speilberg played a difficult game by making Munich, he had a message he wanted to give, but he had to PC it up to make everyone happy, that way everyone will find something to watch the film for, the fact is that most people would have jumped on either the 'Zionist' or the 'Anti-Semite' bandwagon depending on which opinion the film gave, so at the end of the day, Speilberg had to make it bland and opinionless.

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut into it pretty deeply)
Because films that don't cause controversy are the truly great films of all time! :p
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut into it pretty deeply)
The thing that gets me though is that Israel and Jewish critics denounce the film as complete fiction and sensless bull****, which sort of I guess means that Spielberg actually went against his "family" in order to make a sacrifice?

There is a small but nonzero chance they're right, too.
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Offline IPAndrews

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut into it pretty deeply)
Anyone ever heard of Sword of Gideon?
Be warned: This site's admins stole 100s of hours of my work. They will do it to you.

 
Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut int
Yep, very, very, boring. You know how I know that I knew this at the time? I can remember every different phase of numbness my ass went through.

First the annoying pain, then the irritated shifting around, the seeping anal anonymity, and finally complete blissfull numbness.

But yeah, it was boring, but I was also surprised at the very non-biased message spielberg had at the core of the movie. Yeah so the Israeli's become the monster they fight, but also the point that they may have created the monster. It doesn't paint the palestinians as anything other than rabid dogs but maybe thats not so far from the truth.

I think it's a good enough message to build a good film round. Spielberg just didn't build a good film. Funny though, that such an unbiased and simple message gets nailed by the people it concerns most.

I just wanna know why bana took a quick shower during the sex/munich-flashback scene, jumped back on the horse without drying, and gave his missus a hefty shower of Bana sweat. ?
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Offline Rictor

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut into it pretty deeply)
Rictor's opinion:
Not boring. Not the greatest thing I've ever seen, mind you, but not boring.

Though honestly, you would think that Mossad would be able to get a less inept bomb maker. I mean, they're Mossad for God's sake.

 

Offline IPAndrews

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut into it pretty deeply)
I guess not.

Anyone ever heard of Sword of Gideon?
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut int
Rictor's opinion:
Not boring. Not the greatest thing I've ever seen, mind you, but not boring.

Though honestly, you would think that Mossad would be able to get a less inept bomb maker. I mean, they're Mossad for God's sake.

Err, which was the part that made you find it interesting? I thought the whole assasination stuff was so uninteresting, I mean, they had to do the cliché "OMG THE GIRL IS GOING BACK INTO THE APARTMENT AND THE TEAM OF FIVE PEOPLE DIDN'T SEE IT - WILL SHE BLOW UP OR NOT?!?!?!?!?" and it still didn't do it for me.

Though I admit, the tit-shot was MASTERFUL! I liked that. It manage to hold me through the last 30min.

 

Offline KARMA

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut into it pretty deeply)
Still have to see the film, just posting to say that this is not the 1st film about this subject. There was already another film (iirc of the 80's) which I seem to remember as interesting/nice (many years that I don't see it, can't remember even the title). That film -as I suppose spielberg's munich- was taken almost directly from a book, written by a journalist and based on his interview to the leader of the mossad team, an extremely interesting book I have to say.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut int
Just saw it last night. I liked it. Now, I don't have any idea how much of it is accurate historically, especially since the movie claimed not to be "based on a true story", but instead the slightly more amorphous "inspired by real events". But the whole "become monsters when you kill monsters" thing or whatever it is wasn't the point IMO. The point was slightly different... how the premeditated and repeated assasination of human beings, regardless of how monstrous their deeds, or how much they deserved it, will break down the hardest shell and pierce through the stongest conviction, leaving you bewildered and troubled when you listen to propoganda from the other side and believe it as equally as you believe in the facts you know to be true.
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut into it pretty deeply)
I actually saw the point to be more of a "violence begets violence" as the movie showed that even though the Israelis killed off each of their targets, someone else was simply sent in to replace the one before him.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut into it pretty deeply)
No, I don't think that was The Point, although it definitely was pointed out a couple of times.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Rictor

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut into it pretty deeply)
Actually, The Point was: when you go up against Israel, make sure you have at least 10 other accomplices, because they will all be picked off, one by one, leaving you time to flee and/or track down the assassins and take them out.

Also, make absolutely, positively certain that the guy in charge of the explosives knows what the hell he's doing. Oh, and don't share a room with the people you are trying to kill. Akward moments will arise.

Wait, I just thought of another one. When a myserious and powerful Frenchman starts acting all nice and friendly towards you, be very afraid. You'll probably want to hold on to that knife, just in case.

  

Offline aldo_14

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Re: Munich (spoilers I guess, so beware, I cut int
No, I don't think that was The Point, although it definitely was pointed out a couple of times.

I think the 'Point' is supposed to be at least partially dependent on the viewer.