[Kosh]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4699242.stm

Looks like the net companies are finally being held accountable in America.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4712134.stm

This one was really surprising. Not only in what it said, but also from whom it came from.

Those signing the letter include Chairman Mao's former secretary, Li Rui; the former editor of the Communist party's own mouthpiece, People's Daily, Hu Jiwei; and ex-propaganda boss, Zhu Houze

[aldo_14]

wonder how long before they are ..... 'retired'.

[Kosh]

I doubt they would risk pulling a stunt like this unless they had enough political connections/allies to protect them.

[an0n]

It's not really suprising. They were probably among the believers - instead of just clutching onto Mao and his buddies for power. Real pro-Communism guys.

It makes sense that they're against keeping the people subjugated.

[Ace]

Of course I still don't get the whole point of communist states having censorship, big militaries, etc. since the whole damn point is to shed all of the evils of agrarian based societies (which would be stuff like censorship, armies, etc.)

Of course none of the people who claim that they're commies really were...

[Rictor]

Say of China what you will, but they did it right. First perestroika, then glasnost. Otherwise, your whole system of government is liable to fall apart overnight. Gorbachev tried it the other way around, and look how that ended up. First they make sure that China is big enough and powerful enough to hold its own, then gradually introduce democratic reforms.

[aldo_14]

Say of China what you will, but they did it right. First perestroika, then glasnost. Otherwise, your whole system of government is liable to fall apart overnight. Gorbachev tried it the other way around, and look how that ended up. First they make sure that China is big enough and powerful enough to hold its own, then gradually introduce democratic reforms.

Unless they decide not to, of course.

[Rictor]

I'm not too worried. Democracy, after all, took millenia to gain any significant hold on the world. By historical standards, North Korea is pretty much the norm. Besides, having a democratic system without a democratic ethic (on the part of the population) is meaningless. China will get there eventually, the only question is whether it will be in a decade or three.

[aldo_14]

Related;

Net firms criticised over China

[Kosh]

The net firms won't totally pull out of China, it simply has too many opportunities for them to pass up.

[ionia23]

If China wants to dictate what is and is not acceptable in their own borders, while others may disagree and voice their opinion about such, it is their call.  I don't care too fondly for what they do, but it's their house.

[aldo_14]

If China wants to dictate what is and is not acceptable in their own borders, while others may disagree and voice their opinion about such, it is their call.  I don't care too fondly for what they do, but it's their house.

Does that mean we should be happy when they execute political dissedents, bill their families for the cost of the bullet, and skin them for use in cosmetics?  Because it strikes me there are certain fundamental rights all people should have, regardless of the wishes of those who would seek to dominate them.

[ionia23]

Does that mean we should be happy when they execute political dissedents, bill their families for the cost of the bullet, and skin them for use in cosmetics?  Because it strikes me there are certain fundamental rights all people should have, regardless of the wishes of those who would seek to dominate them.

Aldo, I think I wasn't really clear.  We can have whatever opinions we want, and voice them.  But if we're going to be guests in the Chinese home, then we have to play by Chinese rules when we are there.  We can always choose to not deal with them, ya know.  Acceptance and approval are not one and the same.  Don't misunderstand me though, I really don't care for the way they run things.  But it's their house, their rules, and their people.

Yes, I know.  We shoulda thought about that before the Iraq thing, amoung others.

[aldo_14]

Does that mean we should be happy when they execute political dissedents, bill their families for the cost of the bullet, and skin them for use in cosmetics?  Because it strikes me there are certain fundamental rights all people should have, regardless of the wishes of those who would seek to dominate them.

Aldo, I think I wasn't really clear.  We can have whatever opinions we want, and voice them.  But if we're going to be guests in the Chinese home, then we have to play by Chinese rules when we are there.  We can always choose to not deal with them, ya know.  Acceptance and approval are not one and the same.  Don't misunderstand me though, I really don't care for the way they run things.  But it's their house, their rules, and their people.

Yes, I know.  We shoulda thought about that before the Iraq thing, amoung others.

ok, fair enough.  I think, though, we have a choice; we can tacitly endorse these type of policies by allowing our companies to support and meet them, or we can say no, and ensure all our countries' businesses are held to the basic standards and conventions of human rights; whilst businesses care for little except the profit/loss line, I think the government has a responsibility to force those companies to adhere to not just our own freedoms, but those defined within the Universal declaration of human rights, which China is a signatory of and thus by all rights should be held accountable too.

[Darth HoJaPe]

**** censorship.

[aldo_14]

**** censorship.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the arguement against free speech.