[Roanoke]

Just bought a load of camping gear from Ada for the big vauxhall & opel car-show/autojumble/piss-up and paid such a small amount it's almost embarissing. Seriously, £3 for a folding canvas chair ? £20 for a 4-man tent ? All made in China like. No doubt by 11 yr old kiddies doing 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week for < £50 a month.

I almost feel guilty. Maybe I should make a big donation to OXFAM or something. 

[Mars]

Thing is, that sort of thing is almost unavoidable now. People should do everything they can to minimize it, but in the end, there's no way to avoid it and still be able to do basic things.

[Nuke]

the bikes i put together all come from china. and i really do the easy stuff, seat, handlebars, pedals, then i calibrate all the brake and shifter systems. i get about $6, each, and doing maybe about 4 or 5 an hour. it occured to me that my daily wage is probibly more than all the assembly line workers at the chineese plant put together. considering theese workers are doing welding, and stamping parts and cutting tube and installing about 10 sets of bearings. it makes me feel fat and lazy, which is probibly true. i think the question should be, what does $50 a month get you in china? i know here bums probibly make more than that, but then again you cant live on it. obviously in china you can.

[Mars]

Also China is intentionally undervaluing their currency, which throws things off even more.

[IceFire]

Not that I advocate this stuff but for some of those workers they are getting good money for where they live.  Its not western luxuries but they are getting good food and a place to stay and all that sort of thing.  You can't say "OMG..they are making $25 (pulled the value out of a hat) a week in US currency...they are so being taken advantage of!!"  But in many cases they can get more for their $25 than we can.  Even within the western nations its different. I know that I pay less for my fresh produce than americans do because when I go down there i do the conversion and stuff is plenty more expensive.  But the average wage that Americans make in relative terms is more...so its about even.

And don't think that I'm advocating people working in slave labour or in squalid conditions because I know that sort of garbage goes on and its disgusting, pitiful, and I try and buy my clothes and what products I can from places that advocate against that sort of thing.

Just try and keep in mind that things work differently...things are valued differently...some of my friends have done aid work (I myself have not) and said that its funny sometimes in some places because unless things are really bad and they have no food or are threatened by violence, war, and disease...if those things aren't the deciding factor but they are poor in comparison to us...they aren't depressed about it all the time.  People can be happy...even in poor countries. It just all depends.  If your happy then thats pretty good. Some of those people are far more happy with life in general than we are with are supposedly better lives.

Just food for thought..rambling off the top.

[achtung]

Wait till the Chinese form labor unions.

[aceofspades]

Wait till the Chinese form labor unions.

Meh. The government will probably just shoot them one by one.

</flames chinese govenment>

[Janos]

Wait till the Chinese form labor unions.

Meh. The government will probably just shoot them one by one.

</flames chinese govenment>

Yeah, and now they can be dynamic and mobile whilst operating in the everchanging competitive business enviroment of 2006!

[Mars]

Ironically enough when I click that link it says the URL is invalid and Firefox can't open it, it must be pretty bad.

[Nuke]

Not that I advocate this stuff but for some of those workers they are getting good money for where they live.  Its not western luxuries but they are getting good food and a place to stay and all that sort of thing.  You can't say "OMG..they are making $25 (pulled the value out of a hat) a week in US currency...they are so being taken advantage of!!"  But in many cases they can get more for their $25 than we can.  Even within the western nations its different. I know that I pay less for my fresh produce than americans do because when I go down there i do the conversion and stuff is plenty more expensive.  But the average wage that Americans make in relative terms is more...so its about even.

And don't think that I'm advocating people working in slave labour or in squalid conditions because I know that sort of garbage goes on and its disgusting, pitiful, and I try and buy my clothes and what products I can from places that advocate against that sort of thing.

Just try and keep in mind that things work differently...things are valued differently...some of my friends have done aid work (I myself have not) and said that its funny sometimes in some places because unless things are really bad and they have no food or are threatened by violence, war, and disease...if those things aren't the deciding factor but they are poor in comparison to us...they aren't depressed about it all the time.  People can be happy...even in poor countries. It just all depends.  If your happy then thats pretty good. Some of those people are far more happy with life in general than we are with are supposedly better lives.

Just food for thought..rambling off the top.

its also improtant to know that the usa is primarily a country full of salesmen, we have very little manucacturing base. what salspeople do is try to get as much money for an a product as they can, even though they didnt actually build it. people make things more expensive so as to make more money by selling it. so people make more money and this allows them to afford products that cost more than 10 times what it cost to make them. china is full of factories whith a much greater manufacturing base, so theres an abundance of goods and no middlemen making it more expensive. you all know when you buy a product strait from the factory you get it far cheeper. so while having a bigger tertiary sectory, things tend to be more expensive than if you have a big primary or tertiary sector. i have nothing against children working in factories so long as its consensual. you can actually learn at a factory, and its a really good educational environment. plus when theese kids become adults they already have experience and can get better jobs.

[Kosh]

Just bought a load of camping gear from Ada for the big vauxhall & opel car-show/autojumble/piss-up and paid such a small amount it's almost embarissing. Seriously, £3 for a folding canvas chair ? £20 for a 4-man tent ? All made in China like. No doubt by 11 yr old kiddies doing 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week for < £50 a month.

I almost feel guilty. Maybe I should make a big donation to OXFAM or something. 

Children are required (by law) to go to school when they are 11. Plus there is not a lot of demand for children, there are more than enough out of work adult migrant workers to do the job.

Also China is intentionally undervaluing their currency, which throws things off even more.

Not as much as you think. South Korea and Japan do exactly the same thing (actually their currencies are even more undervalued), yet I don't hear people complaining about it.

[an0n]

Way I see it: **** 'em.

[Colonol Dekker]

**** em in the head !!!

I like paying less money for poorly made goods

[Mars]

Also China is intentionally undervaluing their currency, which throws things off even more.

Not as much as you think. South Korea and Japan do exactly the same thing (actually their currencies are even more undervalued), yet I don't hear people complaining about it.

Maybe if the US did that we'd dig ourselves out of the hole somday 

[Flaser]

Also China is intentionally undervaluing their currency, which throws things off even more.

Not as much as you think. South Korea and Japan do exactly the same thing (actually their currencies are even more undervalued), yet I don't hear people complaining about it.

Maybe if the US did that we'd dig ourselves out of the hole somday 

Not a good idea if you're a prime IMPORTER. (....and given the shape your manufacturing is in, you ARE).