Author Topic: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"  (Read 3705 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nuclear1

  • 211
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"
as I've said, I'll let Europe handle this one, go on, show us how it's done.

if you want some help with anything just ask, but you're in charge this time.

which one of us

Any one of you will do fine. It's like I've been saying all along--the European countries should be the ones cleaning up the messes in Africa and the Middle East (excluding Iraq, that's our job, and Lebanon, that's the UN's job) that they made with centuries of imperialism and shoddy boundary drawing.

Not saying the US hasn't done plenty of that, but I can't think of many examples where US-controlled territories or other regions affected by the US have actually spiraled into AIDS epidemics and wanton ethnic genocide as Europe caused the Middle East and Africa to devolve into.

Indonesia, par example.

Ah, but Indonesia was never a US territory. That, again, was a European hold--the Dutch owned it until WWII.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"
and a good chunk of the American population has bought it.

There are a couple of fundemental misconception here that need to be corrected. Nobody actually bothered listening to the Congressional report, nobody actually believes a damn word Bush says anymore, so we're all kind of sitting here on our hands on the issue. (This may actually be more dangerous, not less.) Aside from the threat by the Joint Chiefs to resign en masse if Bush tries to invade Iran, it's a physical impossiblity to find the forces to do it with. The real danger, here, is if the next adminstration withdraws from Iraq they'll actually have the forces available to do something about it...in addition to leaving Iraq in ****ty situation. If you think the Middle East is ****ed up now, you ain't seen nothing yet.

The best time to kill Iran's nuclear program is in its infancy, now; the further along they are the more difficult it becomes. The current problem is that unless we open the nuclear door ourselves (which is not going to happen; the two-man rule) some of Iran's facilities are not vunerable to airstrike...at least until they accept the 30,000 lb deep penetrator into service. Then something might happen. But that's at least six months in the future. So the issue is on hold for at least six months.

Israel might be willing to do it on their own hook, and they've got the nukes to dig the facilities out, but somehow I don't think that's going to happen.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
  • 210
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"
Quote
(This may actually be more dangerous, not less.)


Sounds like you've bought it though.......
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"
Quote
(This may actually be more dangerous, not less.)

Sounds like you've bought it though.......

I really meant that, Mr. W. Bush having seen where public support got him last time, he might view a "meh" attitude as safer.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"
and a good chunk of the American population has bought it.

There are a couple of fundemental misconception here that need to be corrected. Nobody actually bothered listening to the Congressional report, nobody actually believes a damn word Bush says anymore, so we're all kind of sitting here on our hands on the issue. (This may actually be more dangerous, not less.) Aside from the threat by the Joint Chiefs to resign en masse if Bush tries to invade Iran, it's a physical impossiblity to find the forces to do it with. The real danger, here, is if the next adminstration withdraws from Iraq they'll actually have the forces available to do something about it...in addition to leaving Iraq in ****ty situation. If you think the Middle East is ****ed up now, you ain't seen nothing yet.

The best time to kill Iran's nuclear program is in its infancy, now; the further along they are the more difficult it becomes. The current problem is that unless we open the nuclear door ourselves (which is not going to happen; the two-man rule) some of Iran's facilities are not vunerable to airstrike...at least until they accept the 30,000 lb deep penetrator into service. Then something might happen. But that's at least six months in the future. So the issue is on hold for at least six months.

Israel might be willing to do it on their own hook, and they've got the nukes to dig the facilities out, but somehow I don't think that's going to happen.

It was Rictor you quoted, but otherwise I quite agree.

And, of course the reason why not many outside USA and a diminishing number even there believe what Bush says anymore. As I said, they made themselves the boy who called "wolf, wolf".

And about killing Iran's nuclear programme: It is only justified if it becomes certainty that they indeed are brewing a bomb. Aquiring that certainty would be difficult at best times with reliable intelligence services, and making people realize that there was reliable information about it would be even more difficult.

Now, after the Iraq WMD fiasco, it would be nigh impossible to convince anyone that there really was a nuke, regardless of how good and solid the information actually is.


I really would hope the US current (and previous!) government had read their fairy tales as child - perhaps they would have known something about calling "wold" several times in a row.


The situation itself is quite simple - either there is a nuclear weapon programme on Iran, or there isn't.

For the normal people it looks like this: Either there is or isn't a programme, but regardless of world leaders (mainly Bush and his puppeteers) say about the matter, there's no way for normal people to know who is telling the truth, who thinks they are telling the truth and who is lying.

If the US would now introduce some intel to world to prove Iran's nuclear weapons programme's existence, Average Joe would have several choices to choose from:

-They tell the truth and are right, and there is a NW programme in Iran.
-They tell the truth but are wrong, and there is no NW programme in Iran. This is what many people would think, because at least the Bush adminstration claimed this was the case with Iraq.

-They are lying and they know it,  there is no NW programme in Iran. This is what also many people would think, because some think there's no way Bush adminstration could've actually thought there was WMD's in Iraq... I'm kinda between these two options; I bet some of the adminstration knew that intel was not completely reliable, and decided to interprete it in a creative way.

-Last  choice - they are lying and they don't know whether there is a NW programme or not for sure, but there just happens to be one.


So... what gives. The US adminstration has driven themselves into a corner, and Ahmadinejad seems to be an opportunistic leader - OR he's just the figurehead. Everyone should know that the true power in Iran is firmly held by religious leaders. And they might actually have a cunning plan behind all of this. This very dangerous game - dangerous to Iran, not to religious leaders, mind you - goes like this.

There might not be a NW programme in Iran, but creating the impression that there was one, they actually do more harm to United States than with having one.

If this is the case, it's really ingenious... Iranese religious leaders form the leadership of fundamental islamistic world, if you allow me to use this term. They see US as the beginning and end of all evil... well not all, but great portion of it. They want to harm the beast, but they know they don't have physical power to do it. Having a nuke would not really matter. So they might have weaved this scheme to utilize the situation created by US rash actions against Iraq:

-In fundamental islamic mentality, losing face can occur much more often than in west. If millions of moslims think that teh United States has "lost their face", then this is effectively the case.

-If the US doesn't do anything to Iran, even when they are practically spitting all the world in the face, then it seems to Average Abdul that the US has lost their face.

-If the US - or anyone else, for the matter - does something against Iran, be it military offense, economical sanctions or whatever, and later it is revealed that there never was a nuke programme, two things happen. One; Iran becomes a martyr and two; the whole crisis will be reduced - in Avarege Abdul's eyes - to yet one example of incompetence, depravedness and evilness of the Western world.


So it's a win-win situation to the religious leaders of Iran.

Even if Iran as a state was destroyed or occupied by western troops, the religious leaders would gain hella lot of support from elsewhere in islamic world. Also, there would be no evidence of them being part of this scheme. If they were killed, well, yet more martyrs... :shaking:

This is purely speculation, but I wouldn't be surprized if this really was the case.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Janos

  • A *really* weird sheep
  • 28
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"
well, I was expecting the lot of you to form something of a commitie, but if one of you want's to just grab power of the situation that's fine as well.

****ing danes powergrabbin'

edit: ok let's bring some actual content here.

Europe as it is is just a part of a continent - it would be better to speak of EU. And right now EU, being a cluster**** of different countries and cultures, tries to get things done via UN because we're pretty dedicated to it. If UN decides to do something then yeah, ok.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2006, 05:50:29 am by Janos »
lol wtf

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"
yeah, whatever, you guys deal with it.
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Janos

  • A *really* weird sheep
  • 28
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"
yeah, whatever, you guys deal with it.

ok thanks then you can propably shut up about it and let us do it our way ok and also plz don't throw gasoline into this fire we're having enough problems as it is we don't need vitriolic rhetorics which just tense the situation ok right thanks bye oh yeah and one more thing if you even think about using pre-emptive force or something the healthy **** you because it will only make the things worse and more difficult and after that every threepenny tinpot dictator will go for the nuke route
lol wtf

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"
I don't have problem with United States affecting things all over the world.

What is a problem to me and many others is that US seems to think that it is somehow justified to do those things regardless of what other countries have to say about it, even alone if necessary (thogh of course they accept help from those few who agree...).

Take the latest conflict in Iraq for example.

The attack was "justified" by a UN Security Council decision number something, at least that's what the US opinion was.

The UN Secretary-General didn't agree with that interpretation, but in the end it didn't matter the slightest bit. This is a good example how the US has historically acted with UN. If the UN decisions suit them, fine. If they don't suit the US goals, they disregard them. Or as in this case, make them say something that they actually didn't and then claim that the UN agrees with US...

If the US actually worked along with the UN instead of urinating on it almost as much as the "rogue states", I don't think people would mind it that much. It is good thing to have people around to make sure things don't go awry, but the problems begin when the police starts to do what they want to do regardless what the law says.

I mean, what's the point of actually having the UN around if the biggest most powerful country in the world does not feel like they should submit themselves to its authority? I thought that UN was supposed to be about universal law and an authority above individual, national states that have decided to join the UN. What the US does, and has been doing for decades, has made the UN more of a reincarnation of the League of Nations, except that formally the US was never part of the LN... paradoxally, LN could never accomplish anything because the US wasn't a member state; now UN can't do anything that US doesn't agree to, but US can seemingly do whatever they do, even if the UN doesn't agree.


Synopsis: US is part of the world. Europe is part of the world. Iran, unsurprisingly, along with all other "rogue states" is part of the same world.

Europe can't solve the problems caused by "rogue states". Neither can US, as has been proved by (at least to this day) miserably failed attempt to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan, too.

Solving problems of the world requires unity, and it also requires willingness to submit to common decisions. Democracy cannot work if some people only agree to decisions that suit them, and disregard the ones that cause them disadvantage.


Why oh why did the concept of national states ever develope? :rolleyes:


And Janos... :wtf:

Your comments would be easier to comprehend if you didn't write them in one, grammatically challenged, 92-word sentence. Punctuation is your friend... :nervous:
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Janos

  • A *really* weird sheep
  • 28
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"

And Janos... :wtf:

Your comments would be easier to comprehend if you didn't write them in one, grammatically challenged, 92-word sentence. Punctuation is your friend... :nervous:

Punctuation is the enemy, punctuation must be destroyed. Punctuation is the little death etc. etc.
lol wtf

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"
ok thanks then you can propably shut up about it and let us do it our way ok and also plz don't throw gasoline into this fire we're having enough problems as it is we don't need vitriolic rhetorics which just tense the situation ok right thanks bye oh yeah and one more thing if you even think about using pre-emptive force or something the healthy **** you because it will only make the things worse and more difficult and after that every threepenny tinpot dictator will go for the nuke route

what part of 'you guys deal with it' confuses you?
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

  

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Re: IAEA: Congressional report of Iran's nukes ""erroneous" and "misleading"
Quote from: Me Myself
Synopsis: US is part of the world. Europe is part of the world. Iran, unsurprisingly, along with all other "rogue states" is part of the same world.

Europe can't solve the problems caused by "rogue states". Neither can US, as has been proved by (at least to this day) miserably failed attempt to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan, too.

Solving problems of the world requires unity, and it also requires willingness to submit to common decisions. Democracy cannot work if some people only agree to decisions that suit them, and disregard the ones that cause them disadvantage.


Why oh why did the concept of national states ever develope? :rolleyes:
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.