[TrashMan]

Really.. I mean I'm kinda of a obsessed with some little details (ever since I started making HTL ships with cockpits) and proper scale is one of htem.

The Phoenix and the Armageddon are 2 things I'm working on now and during their construction I was comparing them with some other ships and was stumped..I scaled my fighter pilot to be 1.96m tall (when standing up) and then modeled the cockpit accordingly.

When I compared my work with the HTL Herc the pilto there appeared a GIANT. Apollo was supposed to be a 2-seater and it's cokpit is roughly the same size as the Herc's but the Herc has one giant pilot in it.

Now I don't know if I should continue with my pilots properly scaled or if I should just give up and set the scale to whatever "fits" with the rest of the HTL ships.

The Armageddon is about 80-85m long, the Phoenix will end up around 30 long.


The Armageddon has a crew of 5, the this circled in red is the pilot standing up.

I'm still working on the Armageddon, and if you have any suggestion then shoot!

[Bobboau]

well when I made that I had my pilot roughly 2 meters tall, are you sure you have everything properly scaled?

[TrashMan]

I checked the Her2, Herc, Ursa and some others. .I can't recall if the giant was in the Her2 or the Herc.. but both ships were off.

Here:
According to Modelview and hte tables the Herc is 25 meters long.

Here it is in Truespace scaled to 25 units. Below is it's cockpit nad hte cockpit pilot standing up.

Above are boxes each exactly 2m long and the pilot lying down almsot 2m long

[StratComm]

Modelview and the tables include the thruster cones in the length, so the herc itself is not that long.  In fact, the hull itself only measures a hair over 20 meters.  Its pilot is a little on the large size, but not to the degree you're showing; I'm measuring him at just about 2 meters tall exactly which, while tall, is not oversized.  That pilot model was correctly scaled when it was made and I, nor to my knowledge anyone else who has incorporated it into a model, has altered that size appreciably.  The Herc 2 could be a red herring but I can personally vouch for at least half of the rest in my working with them over time.

If you want to do the proper measurement, convert from POF to cob and then scale up by 20x, not to the dimensions shown in Modelview.  There's too much margin for error in things you simply do not see.

[asyikarea51]

That Armageddon looks a lot like a hovertank from my long-lost sketches of old, when looking from the side.

Can't really suggest anything right now, for fear of ruining it in one way or another.

[Prophet]

Hey where did that Armageddon come from. I don't think I've seen it before... Don't tell that's from Inferno?

[TrashMan]

Modelview and the tables include the thruster cones in the length, so the herc itself is not that long.  In fact, the hull itself only measures a hair over 20 meters.  Its pilot is a little on the large size, but not to the degree you're showing; I'm measuring him at just about 2 meters tall exactly which, while tall, is not oversized.  That pilot model was correctly scaled when it was made and I, nor to my knowledge anyone else who has incorporated it into a model, has altered that size appreciably.  The Herc 2 could be a red herring but I can personally vouch for at least half of the rest in my working with them over time.

If you want to do the proper measurement, convert from POF to cob and then scale up by 20x, not to the dimensions shown in Modelview.  There's too much margin for error in things you simply do not see.

Thruster cones..yeah, modeview takes that into consideeration..

Still, did you mesure him 2m tall in upright position (not sitting down)?

I used the Herc as an exmaple, I didn't go into precise mesurments (my TS conversion scale is set to 1, so TS lenght is the true lenght in meters), I mostly compared to my own fighters.

Also note that I was generous when making the upright standing pilot, since he has short legs. If I were really keeping human proportions in tact he would end up even bigger.

Not that the pilto scale is really a grevious error - I just like consistency.

@Prophet - the Armageddon is a bomber I made (and ma re-making)  for Chapter 3 of FOW

[Prophet]

Oh OK. Looks damn good ya know...

As a side note (and completely off-topic) I was wondering, should we create an acronym dictionary or table for all this campaigns and such. It just occurred to me because I have no idea what "FOW" is supposed to be (regular campaign, or for one of the conversions or something).

[Nuke]

i go through of trouble keeping the cockpits in nukemod uniform. i still havent modeled my pirates yet but when i do i should be able to stick one in each ship and have them all fit without rescaling them. you do notice some size discrepensy when you line up the ships in fred, but its not so big as to set off any red flags.

i think the big problem is that most people build there ship and scale it when they realize they made it too big or too small. i usually model the ship, then decide how big to make it. i like using max cause its easy to make your ship in the same scale the game uses.

[TrashMan]

When I build ships I don't have a precise scale set (just a general outline).
When the ship mesh is finished and I start workong on hte cockpit, I compare it in size with other ships, then adjust it to what I feel is right and THEN I edit the cockpit to fit it's size, shape and occupants to the size I chosen.

[StratComm]

Thruster cones..yeah, modeview takes that into consideeration..

Still, did you mesure him 2m tall in upright position (not sitting down)?

I used the Herc as an exmaple, I didn't go into precise mesurments (my TS conversion scale is set to 1, so TS lenght is the true lenght in meters), I mostly compared to my own fighters.

Also note that I was generous when making the upright standing pilot, since he has short legs. If I were really keeping human proportions in tact he would end up even bigger.

Not that the pilto scale is really a grevious error - I just like consistency.

@Prophet - the Armageddon is a bomber I made (and ma re-making)  for Chapter 3 of FOW

But of course I accounted for his being seated.  I in fact just triple-checked my measurements, and that pilot comes to almost exactly 1.92m tall extrapolating for his feet.  His legs may be somewhat short for his height, but total height is spot-on.  Remember that the pilot in question was made by Nico, who was, even ignoring all of his other talents, meticulous in this kind of detail.  I'm somewhat curious how you constructed the "upright model" since you're obviously coming to a different conclusion than I am through wireframe reconstruction.

[Nuke]

this has got me curious so with a tape measure and various chairs raging in height and incline, ive determined that seated i am between 1.17 and 1.32 meters in height. my actual standing height is roughly 1.91m (or 6'3") so im pretty tall, but it gives me a rough idea. the military perfers smaller pilots cause a smaller body has a better g-tolerance and most pilot seats tend to be fully upright. considering pilots tend to be smaller and seats tend to be upright, which in essence counter eachother out, id place the average seated pilot height at about 1.2 meters. nico's model seems to be out of scale no mater what program i use, but iirc his readme that came with the model said that it was probibly nessicary to scale and modify the pilot and cockpit and it was up to the moder to make sure everything was right.

i had the idea to make the pilot models swappable, sorta like the vwep system. it would utilize the eyepoint in the ship model as the position and the pilot model would need to be made with center right infront of the eyes. every model would have a default pilot which is used unless overriden by a player custom pilot or mission setting. players could select a number of pilots or even make their own, which would be seen in multi games flying the ship. you could have a vasudan or shivan pilot if you wanted. i dont think anyone liked the idea though. 

[TrashMan]

Interesing idea - but it cannot works since you would have to have custom cockpits as well.

What if my custom pilot is 2.5 m tall and your is 1.2m? He would either be sticking out of the cockpit or couldn't see above hte instrument panell

[Nuke]

well then everyone would need to get their scale right

[bizzybody]

He would either be sticking out of the cockpit

That's when the game switches to the Horus pilot model...

[aldo_14]

I couldn't give a monkeys about actual pilot size so long as it looks right to the players' eye.

[Trivial Psychic]

What if the player's eye turns out to be 10m tall?